The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
As far as OVERALL Haplogroup E, and the PN2 transition, which links Africans together across the continent, that African Americans are more related to Egyptians than Europeans or Middle Easterners like Arabs.
and we know about the limb proportions showing they are more related than Europeans or Middle Easterners.
And some have urged Black Americans to look not at Egypt but to Nubia, since it is supposedly more "representative." Very well, but when we look at Nubia, we find that the much touted Negroid Nubians were ethnically the people closest to the Egyptians. How's that for irony?
However in one sense it could be contended that whites have a greater link to the Nile Valley. The bone, remnant body fluids and skin of dead Egyptians were a major item in European cannibalism on into the 17th century. In this, Black Americans have indeed been out-shined by European "role models.." -----------------------------------------------------
quote: Now I will try to relate the above regions to selected ethnic groups. I've collected this data from a variety of sources, and I can't vouch for all of them. The central question for me is always, "Were these people called by that name during that time in that place?" I don't know how to show the nomadic and semi-nomadic groups, but I included several below anyway.
Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! I don't think it was a book by Ashley Montagu, but maybe it was, but a prominent anthropologist from the 1950's; there's a wealth of info in the old texts. But, I have read a lot of books, so I'm not sure of the source for this... )
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were alread pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks. Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
AHHH..African American Culture!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_culture African-American culture in the United States refers to the cultural contributions of Americans of African descent to the culture of the United States, either as part of or distinct from American culture. The distinct identity of African American culture is rooted in the historical experience of the African American people, including the Middle Passage, and thus the culture retains a distinct identity while at the same time it is enormously influential to American culture as a whole.
African American culture is rooted in Africa. It is a blend of chiefly sub-Saharan African and Sahelean cultures. Although slavery greatly restricted the ability of Americans of African descent to practice their cultural traditions, many practices, values, and beliefs survived and over time have modified or blended with European American culture. There are some facets of African American culture that were accentuated by the slavery period. The result is a unique and dynamic culture that has had and continues to have a profound impact on mainstream American culture, as well as the culture of the broader world.
After emancipation, unique African American traditions continued to flourish, as distinctive traditions or radical innovations in music, art, literature, religion, cuisine, and other fields. While for some time sociologists, such as Gunnar Myrdal and Patrick Moynihan, believed that African Americans had lost most cultural ties with Africa, anthropological field research by Melville Herskovits and others demonstrated that there is a continuum of African traditions among Africans of the Diaspora.[1] The greatest influence of African cultural practices on European culture is found below the Mason-Dixon in the American South.[2][3]
For many years African American culture developed separately from mainstream American culture because of the persistence of racial discrimination in America, as well as African American slave descendants' desire to maintain their own traditions. Today, African American culture has become a significant part of American culture and yet, at the same time, remains a distinct cultural body.[4]
[/img]http://www.rashaentertainment.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/monica.jpg[img] [img]http://space.about.com/library/graphics/anderson.jpg[img]
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
See WE GOT DA FUNK..thread Ancient Egypt side.^
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Zar in Egypt and in America
quote: ausar wrote; Zar rituals are mostly practiced in lower class Sai'idi and Baladi communities throughout Egypt. The reason why many are practiced is either to heal or caste out evil spirits.
Most of the major participants are females. Very few males lead these ceremonies,and it tends to be an outlet for women in a male dominated society.
If you are at all familiar with Voodoo or Voudum, you know what Zar is...
quote: "Zar, in the sense of possession, is usually, though not exclusively, inherited. It is also contagious and may strike at any time. Diriye Abdullahi, a native of Somalia, says that the zar is basically a dance of spirits, or a religious dance - kind of leftover from the old African deities, a variant of what we describe in the west as "voodoo". The old African deities were headed by two figures; Azuzar (the male, assoc. with Osiris) and Ausitu (the female, known in the west as Isis). Ausitu (or Aysitu in Somalia) is still celebrated and given offerings by pregnant women so that she will provide them with a safe birth. He describes it as a ritual dance which is mostly observed by women, especially older women. This corresponds to the practice of older African religions, in which older women were the priestesses. He maintains that younger women, especially unmarried women, are not generally thought to be "worthy of a visit by the spirit of Zar, who chooses domicile or residence in the person who is his choice." Traditionally, women are carriers of the Zar tradition. A Zar is a spirit. Some Ethiopians and Yemenis have their own Zar, like a guide of guardian angel. The dance ritual, Zar, like other traditional healing ceremonies, as for instance practiced by the !Kung of Southern Africa, is done to regain a sense of balance and harmony in one's life and in tandem with the community. The word Zar is thought by some to be a corruption of Jar which in the Cushitic language of the Agaw people is the word for Waaq the sky god. The Rastafarians call god Jah. And Yah is a very old Ancient Egyptian word for God. See also: The Zar: Women's Theatre in the Southern Sudan,"Women's Medicine: Zar Cult in Africa and Beyond, ed. by Ioan Lewis, Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1991
from my own experiences... As an African American, born in (Voodoo) Louisiana... One of the first things you learn as a Black youngster is that when you go to church on Sunday, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO A WOMAN, especially a middle-aged one. When this "zar spirit" hits one of these women (it usually affects several women almost simultaneously), they begin to gesticulate and shout out loud. They then, usually, make their way to the church's aisle where they begin to dance themselves into a trance like frenzy, eventually feinting or becoming rigid, where they have to be fanned and literally carried out of the auditorium. And your biggest fear is that this spirit might also hit you! ...we call this 'the Holy Ghost' in (Voodoo) Louisiana.
The only thing missing is some formalized ritual, which obviously isn't necessary.
and from EW Budge on Ancient Egyptian Voodoo
quote: It was well known in Egypt and the Sudan at a very early period that if a magician obtained some portion of a person's body, e.g., a hair, a paring of a nail, a fragment of skin, or a portion of some efflux from the body, spells could be used upon them which would have the effect of causing grievous harm to that person. --Legends of the Egyptian Gods, EW Budge, p.xxxiv
...and my mama would always make sure that clipped nails or cut hair was always flushed down the toilet! Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks you have to understand that Wally has low self-esteem because he has been told by the whites in his country that he is nothing, so therefore needs to come up with looney tune myths and fiction to connect himself with the lone culture and people in Africa that whites hold in high regard.
Ancient Egypt and the Ancient Egyptians.
Poor, poor Wally.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Hey Argie. Let the brother vent. What's your problem.
I do take exception to the Marcus Garvey vis-a-vis DuBois statement.
Being of Caribbean parentage I did my reserach on Marcus and it did not go down like that.. . . but we are all black people with strong links eg Malcolm (part Caribbean Parentage), Powell, Holder, Biggie , etc. 1st generation.
Let's not get caught up in that we all have the same objective here.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Hey Argie. Let the brother vent. What's your problem.
I do take exception to the Marcus Garvey vis-a-vis DuBois statement.
Being of Caribbean parentage I did my reserach on Marcus and it did not go down like that.. . . but we are all black people with strong links eg Malcolm (part Caribbean Parentage), Powell, Holder, Biggie , etc. 1st generation.
Let's not get caught up in that we all have the same objective here.
It never ceases to amaze me that someone, sitting at the computer, a fountainhead of information, can make such ill informed statements!
quote:Garvey's espousal of the doctrine of racial purity, beginning in the summer of 1921, however, did not originate with his alleged West Indian misreading of the supposedly different system of racial segmentation in America. "Not only did Garvey advocate race purity," E. D. Cronon comments in Black Moses, "but as a Jamaican black he attempted to transfer the West Indian three-way color caste system to the United States by attacking mulatto leaders" (p. 191). This view echoed DuBois's earlier statement in his essay "Back to Africa," in which he claimed that Garvey brought to America "the new West Indian conception of the color line" (p.541). "Imagine, then, the surprise and disgust of these Americans when Garvey launched his Jamaican color scheme," DuBois recounted (p. 542).
I try, unlike some here, to have a knowledge of what I say before I say it; IE, I've read many books on/by both Marcus Garvey and Dr. DuBois...
FYI: Vent:release: activity that frees or expresses creative energy or emotion
Inform: impart knowledge of some fact, state or affairs...
...notice the difference?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: I try, unlike some here, to have a knowledge of what I say before I say it
No you don't. The very fact that you wildly claim that only "west" Africans (which for some reason you run away from defining) were the brought over as slaves.
You're a dullard Wally that can't learn because your mind has been sodomized by your white owners and teevee. That is why your posts are devoid of factual evidence, thus are looked upon as jokes.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
This is not the time and place to get into a war of words about what happened between Marcus and DuBois. They were ALL calling each other names .. . . . It was a power struggle for the hearts and minds of black folks then. Marcus accused Garvey of being a HN.etc etc etc.
My man Malcolm(not the early racist Malcolm but Shabazz) helped US all reach Nirvana.
You don't believe me. . . ask Obama.
Unlike some here I have the politics down.. . . I am now scratching the surface of the history. . . .
"Appreciate all you'll help."
Quote from Wally: I try, unlike some here, to have a knowledge of what I say before I say it; IE, I've read many books on/by both Marcus Garvey and Dr. DuBois... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Man stfu. Your sorry ass is worse than whatbox aka jeeves. The boy Wally is supposed to be grown, he can defend himself presumably.
Since you've been here no one has learned one thing from your worthless hide.
Posted by ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru (Member # 11484) on :
There is a sick relationship between Djehuti, Whatbox and Xyyman I have to unravel.
These 3 characters have taken me for a ride too long. I dedicate the rest of my life to seeing them punished for their transgressions.
Arwa and Tigerlilly no longer exist in my e-world. Consider yourself/yourselves forever dismissed.
I'm not even going to talk about the vets.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote: Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! I don't think it was a book by Ashley Montagu, but maybe it was, but a prominent anthropologist from the 1950's; there's a wealth of info in the old texts. But, I have read a lot of books, so I'm not sure of the source for this... )
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were alread pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
...so let us continue the discussion...
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Garvey's espousal of the doctrine of racial purity, beginning in the summer of 1921, however, did not originate with his alleged West Indian misreading of the supposedly different system of racial segmentation in America. "Not only did Garvey advocate race purity," E. D. Cronon comments in Black Moses, "but as a Jamaican black he attempted to transfer the West Indian three-way color caste system to the United States by attacking mulatto leaders" (p. 191). This view echoed DuBois's earlier statement in his essay "Back to Africa," in which he claimed that Garvey brought to America "the new West Indian conception of the color line" (p.541). "Imagine, then, the surprise and disgust of these Americans when Garvey launched his Jamaican color scheme," DuBois recounted (p. 542).
Complete and utter Cronon (whiteman) type BS interpretation commonly echoed by Garvey's integrationist detractors. Read Race First by Tony Martin. Garvey didn't attempt to bring any "caste" system to America.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Don't want to mess up your thread.. . .Wally so this is the last non-topic post.
Quote: Bogle ". . . BS interpretation commonly echoed by Garvey's integrationist detractors. . . ". As I said Garvey called DeBois a HN.
Similarly Malcolm called King, another integrationist, a HN.
These guys had different approaches to solving a problem ie racism.
@ Argie - Quote: "Since you've been here no one has learned one thing from your worthless hide"
I am gong to take you seriously this ONE time. Seems like you cannot keep up. Have problems developing and fine tuning a premise. Here is one or two from me "evolution of white people" and "origin of R1b and Hg-I".
Now. . . . please keep up!!!!!!!! I am not going to read to you any more. eg didn't realize I wasn't talking to you. . .so fughking THICK!!.
@ YH - to paraphrase Tiger. . . adults are talking. Stay out of this.
Posted by ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru (Member # 11484) on :
GO F!UCK YOURSELF AND YOUR MOTHER. MOTHERFUCKER.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
xyyman, Let me be clear, my personal ideological "heroes" are:
a) Marcus Garvey
b) Malcolm X
c) Kwame Nkrumah ( the most brilliant and Malcolm's "hero" as well...Garvey was Nkrumah's "hero")
What common trait which all of these figures exhibited was that of self-critical analysis; self-analyzing your critical errors and therefore being able to correct them.
You mistook my factual comment on Garvey's error as a 'knock' on Garvey; completely ignoring the fact that I pointed out Garvey's astute correction of his error via self-critical analysis, which was implied in my statement - "To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community."
...that is all...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were alread pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
People this is why this Wally fool gets beat down routinely by more seasoned and intellectual posters.
Wally, why are saying the slave trade only involved so called "west" Africa when it has proven with facts that it did not?
You are not employed in a high class career or own a business do you Wally? Because those types of people have brains and understand facts, evidence, and proof.
If you are even employed Wally, it is most likely low level with no chance for advancement because you cannot think and you have a mind that is based on dogma which does not allow you to learn for fear of that said dogma being rendered useless due to facts and evidence that destroys it.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: You mistook my factual comment on Garvey's error as a 'knock' on Garvey
Don't talk rubbish. There is nothing factual about it. Present evidence, save an anti-Garvey article by his rival Dubois, that Garvey was attempting to import a "West Indian color caste" system in America.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
The bottom line disagreement between the two opponents were integrate or repatriate..any disagreement on light-skined vs dark-skinnend was a side issue, In Jamaica and other places in the Caribbean the English did sharpend the divide between the two they being the masters of divide and conquer and really they had to since they were out numbered,and needed a buffer,In the good ol U.S.A that was not needed as much since they the whites had numericial advantage.But you can see that almost immediately after indipendence..they tried dispence with the whole notion of "mulatto race"..and reuniting of family...not perfect in the least but a huge leap from what it was. In America the same thing happened when African centered folks started their literary strike back...in the Harlem renaissance. In the end Dubois thought Marcus Garvey may have been right...he made is home in Ghana where he died and was buried. Some Rastas made their home in Shashamene Ethiopia...while the majority of us stayed put, making that spiritual journey instead..or a quick visit.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I was about to make a new thread but this will do just fine;
The history of why blacks esp.New World blacks focus on Kemet.
There was a time when most black gave Egypt a wide berth. beleiving it an evil land connected to the wicked Pharoah who enslaved a people much like themselves called Jews, they like the Jews of the Bible awaited a deliverer..a Moses type figure. Ethiopia was different because their slave owners sometimes made reference to them as Ethiopians,and those who could read the bible saw Ethiopia as the promise land, But as literacy grew they began to dig deeper into Bibical lore,they hit upon the table of nations and all those begots...remember the curse of Ham was still being taught as fact in Sunday Schools in both Black and White churches,..but a quick look at the sons of Ham and doubts about Ham's decendants being hewers of wood and drawers of water..quickly spread. The decendants of Ham seems mighty beyond beleif, They also notice that many of the son's of Japath were now claiming some sorta of kinship with at least two of Ham's son Canaan and Miser, That.. what was once Black and acursed has now became white and glorified..they began to go out and find the truth for themselves...They were aided by the works of Gaston-Masporo C.f Volney,Garhold Massey and others, Later they would formed their own Historians such as Arthur Schomburg, John Wesley Cromwell, Kelly Miller, J.A. Rogers, John Henrik Clarke, Dr. Ben Jochannon, John Jackson, Drusilla Dunjee Houston Charles H. Wesley, Monroe Nathan Work, Merl R. Eppse, C.L.R. James, George Padmore, and George G.M. James ...These men and women would be often ridicule by the establishment for seeking to give the Negro as place he did not deserved...thanks to these men and women and others yet to mentioned...we have a sence of who we are and our place in the world.
But the official break through has to go to two Africans Cheikh Anta Diop and Theophile Obenga who put the intellectual smack down in the Symposium in Cairo, Egypt in 1974. and things has never been the same ever again..ever!!.
Gone were the days when we could look at the Ten Commandments without protest, when National Geographic Magazine could print milk white Pharoahs without a single letter to the editor.
Today the Euro-centric view of Kemet is all but dead save for a few trolls who pollute the internet in general and this forum in particular.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Elementary Reality of the African American's Ethnic origins
1) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Akan of Ghana
2) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Yoruba of Nigeria
3) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Wolof of Senegal
4) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Fulani of the Sahel
6) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Tuareg of the Sahel
7) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Kushites of Sudan vis-a-vis 1-6
8) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Egyptians of Egypt vis-a-vis 1-6
The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
Note: this list represents only the predominantly African ethnic components; the minority European and Native American ethnic components are not included, but does not mean they aren't there...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Don't forget Madagascar..in Jamaica a large body of them escaped into the mountains as a group just shortly after their arrival and formed their own Maroon community...later to be taken over by the Akans..after a mano o mamo machate duel to the death match between the leader and the leader of the Akan.
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Wally likes to dream and make things up. Even as he writes this stuff he knows AA's are not realted to AE.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Why not take this over to the AE forum where it was first broached over a year ago anyway? This is not Egyptology by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is it Africana. What it is is Black Studies aka "Urban" Studies. This is just sociology that'll breed racialist shitshat.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ theres that Jew hypocrisy again. A while back you posted a thread about "Stolen Legacy"; some would argue that's not "Egyptology".
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Don't forget Madagascar..in Jamaica a large body of them escaped into the mountains as a group just shortly after their arrival and formed their own Maroon community...later to be taken over by the Akans..after a mano o mamo machate duel to the death match between the leader and the leader of the Akan.
Another good example, yes.
And you also reveal the schism between African ethnic groups in Jamaica that did not occur in America; do you recall the scene, if you saw the film, in Amistad where the Africans had tables set up to represent their respective groups upon their arrival in America? Well, this didn't fit in with the Americans' sense of slave efficiency - they wanted a cohesive unit to till their fields and to harvest their crops, rather than have the cost of labor being diverted by ethnic strife, of which you described as happening in Jamaica...
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ the split between the "maroons" and the rest of the African captives in Jamaica wasn't along African ethnic lines.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
From the land of my birth - Louisiana
quote:Hall methodically argues that two-thirds of the slaves that arrived in Louisiana were brought from Senegambia, "a site of the great medieval Ghana, Mali, and Songhai trade," a region homogeneous in culture and history, located between the rivers Senegal and Gambia. The slaves from this region spoke Serrer, Wolof, and Pulaar, which are closely related, and Malinke, spoken in the east by the Mande people. Hall supports with data the fact that Senegambia was the main source of slave trade between Africa and Louisiana in the eighteenth century
Africans in colonial Louisiana:the development of Afro-Creole culture in the Eighteenth Century
quote:According to the late Cheikh Anta Diop, the great Senegalese historian and anthropologist, the main groups of people in Senegambia have their origins in Ancient Egypt. To support his theory, Diop draws on a number of disciplines from archaeology to linguistics, and a variety of sources from African oral traditions to the writings of Greeks and Arabs.
Insight Guides: The Gambia and Senegal, 1996 APA Publications (HK) Ltd, Houghton Mifflin Company
...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Bogle
quote:^ the split between the "maroons" and the rest of the African captives in Jamaica wasn't along African ethnic lines.
True, because Codjo(Maroon leader) made a law that says... all must communicate in English under the pain of death..African language was to be use for ritual and religious purposes only. But it was the Akans who gain leadership of all Maroon cummunities in Jamaica.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
I guess this is somehow tangentially related to the topic, so...
I simply responded to your statement and this is how my mind processed this information:
quote: Don't forget Madagascar..in Jamaica a large body of them escaped into the mountains as a group just shortly after their arrival and formed their own Maroon community...
A large group of Maroons (aka escaped slaves) from the island of Madagascar formed their own Maroon community (of Malagasy ethnic groups)...
quote: later to be taken over by the Akans..after a mano o mamo machate duel to the death match between the leader and the leader of the Akan.
...The Akan is an ethnic group brought from the Gold Coast (Ghana).
Thus, your statement is that the Akan ethnic group took over, in a "mano o mano" duel, the ethnic Malagasy community and then the response to this is:
Bogle "the split between the "maroons" and the rest of the African captives in Jamaica wasn't along African ethnic lines. "
Brada-Anansi "True, because Codjo(Maroon leader) made a law that says... all must communicate in English under the pain of death..African language was to be use for ritual and religious purposes only. But it was the Akans who gain(ed) leadership of all Maroon cummunities in Jamaica."
The Akan ethnic group gained leadership of all escaped slave communities in Jamaica! And this isn't about ethnic conflict???
By this illogic, I guess that the Tutsi vs Hutu conflict was also not along ethnic lines...
BTW; Kudjo is an Akan name which means "Monday's child"
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Wally not really, you see the people that went off into the mountains were varied,so to head off ethnic conflict that could develope he had every body speaking English as a unifying language including his own Akan.The Madagascans were special in that they were able to do so in a body. I don't know why Akans became dominant maybe there was just more of them.
And as far as ethnic names Jamaica has a lot of Akan base names such as Accompong,a Maroon settlement, names like Quashi, the horn that they used to rally or called the community together is called an Abeng. In our everyday speech we used words like nyam meaning to eat... nyami nyami = a greedy person, koodeh= look there Kooyah= look here.our local language is peppered with such.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: he Akan ethnic group gained leadership of all escaped slave communities in Jamaica! And this isn't about ethnic conflict???
There were not many "escaped slave communities" to begin with and I have never heard of any "Madagascar" Maroons in Jamaica of significance. The Asante west Africans were the dominant African group in Jamaica so it would not be surprising if a small Madagascar community, if it existed, would be absorbed by them.
The "maroons" began as armed slaves the Spanish used to fight the British. After they defeated the Spanish the Britsh were unable to defeat the "maroons" and thus made a treaty with them to capture runaway slaves. This betrayal led to division among the Maroons, but again, it was not along ethnic lines. ALL African runaways captured were turned, no consideration for "ethnic" groups. The "Marrons" became the British police force instrumental in killing rebel leaders like Taky and even in suppressing the 1865 rebellion, none of these battles were along ethnic lines.
quote:By this illogic, I guess that the Tutsi vs Hutu conflict was also not along ethnic lines...
The 1994 conflict was not along "ethnic" lines but political, the US-backed RPF forces (and Rwandans who supported them) and French-backed government forces. The RPF had both Tutsi and Hutu so did the Interhamwe. You need to learn about African politics as it exists not as a construct of western political propaganda.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
tangentiality - a mental condition in which one tends to digress from the topic under discussion, especially by word association.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ what do you call a negro who makes unfounded statements about African history?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: ^ what do you call a negro who makes unfounded statements about African history?
I call him Bogle or Boggled... Now, if you can't make a cogent statement relevant to the topic being discussed, please refrain from participating here... You know...put up or shut up! ... Topic: African Americans and Ancient Egyptians Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ Hey, no need to be rude Wally; there's no shame in not knowing anything about the Garvey movement, Jamaican history or African politics. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
FROM THE NILE VALLEY THRU WEST AFRICA TO AMERICA
"OOH BABY, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE MY BOO (BOYFRIEND/GIRLFRIEND)" LYRIC FROM "MY BOO"; PERFORMED BY USHER & BEYONCE --- BOOBOO - COMMON NICKNAME IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY
BOO, BOOBOO
"TIME AND TRUTH ARE INSEPARABLE" - KWAME NKRUMAH
...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
So I thought BaBa was related to papa..how does one say father in Mdu-ntr?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: So I thought BaBa was related to papa..how does one say father in Mdu-ntr?
Ok checked it out^ it's the same..thanks
Posted by ArtistFormerlyKnownAsHeru (Member # 11484) on :
fahaka - silvery fish -<>- fahaka - silvery fish Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
You should also note that in the above example, the Coptic equivalent is given:Boubou - thus we know how this word was pronounced; and definitely not 'Baba', which is, of course, written differently
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
• SAMBA (noun)
The noun SAMBA has 4 senses: 1. large west African tree having large palmately lobed leaves and axillary cymose panicles of small white flowers and one-winged seeds; yields soft white to pale yellow wood 2. music composed for dancing the samba 3. a lively ballroom dance from Brazil 4. a form of canasta using three decks of cards and six jokers
• SAMBA (verb) The verb SAMBA has 1 sense: 1. dance the samba
Standard etymology: Brazilian dance of African origin, 1885, Zemba, from Port. samba, shortened form of zambacueca, a type of dance, probably altered (by influence of zamacueco "stupid") from zambapalo, the name of a grotesque dance, itself an alteration of zampapalo "stupid man," from zamparse "to bump, crash."
...ANALYSIS APPEARS TO HAVE STOPPED A TAD SHORT BY STOPPING IN WEST AFRICA...
SAMBA
HMMMM, FIERY SOUL; WELL, YOU MAKE THE CALL...
Hint: Fiery -Tempestuous or emotionally volatile; Spirited or filled with emotion Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Welly let me ask you Straight up...do you think that African languages are mis-classified? I mean what's being demonstrated here is two supposedly different language families carring the same words and same meaning for things,ie Kemetic fahaka - silvery fish -<>-Yoruba fahaka - silvery fish . sorry if this question is kinda ot.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Welly let me ask you stright up...do you think that African languages are mis-classified? I mean what's being demonstrated here is two supposedly different language families carring the same words and same meaning for things,ie Kemetic fahaka - silvery fish -<>-Yoruba fahaka - silvery fish . sorry if this question is kinda ot.
...Not ot at all, and to answer you; yes, I have long insisted that African languages have been mis-classified. I belong to that group that are students of Professors Diop, Obenga,...Ones who are leading the way in dismantling the huge corpus of lies and misinformation designed to 'keep the Africans in their place'...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
To understand the origins of any African people, it is first necessary to understand the patterns of African migrations throughout history:
Peopling of Africa from the Nile Valley (note: this is based upon the fact of an original peopling of the Nile Valley from the south and the west (ancient Sahara regions))
quote: ...For peoples living south of the Nile, tradition suggest that they came from the north; this is true of the Batutsi of Rwanda-Urundi...the Pygmies were probably the first to occupy the interior of the continent, at least at a certain period. They settled there prior to the arrival of larger Blacks. It can be assumed that the latter formed a kind of cluster around the Nile Valley. In the course of time they spread out in all directions, as a result of the population growth and the upheavals that occur during the history of a people. --- The African Origin of Civilization, C.A. Diop, p179-182
points agreeing with Diop's observation...
quote: Tutsi, «TOOT see», are an African people who live mainly in the central African nations of Burundi and Rwanda. They are sometimes called Batutsi or Watusi. The Tutsi population is about 2 million. The Tutsi are by tradition a cattle-keeping people. They began to arrive in their present lands in the A.D. 1300's or 1400's, coming from northeastern Africa, probably in search of grazing land for their herds. Hutu people (also called Bahutu) were already living in the area when the Tutsi arrived. The Hutu were an agricultural people and were not as skilled in warfare as the Tutsi. The Tutsi gradually established themselves as the dominant group in the region politically and economically. Over the centuries, the two groups developed a common language and culture. Most Tutsi are Christians, but many also follow traditional African beliefs.--- World Book Online Reference Center
quote: In all these kingdoms a population of Bantu-speaking peasants had been conquered in the 14th or 15th century by a cattle herding people, believed to have been of Nilotic language, perhaps from the Ethiopian area or Sudan. The result was a feudal aristocracy descended from the cattle herders, the Tutsi, and a peasantry descended from the original Bantu speakers, the Hutu. All the aristocrats now speak the language of the peasants. (This has some similarities with the experience of the English, invaded by French speaking Normans in 1066.) The kingdoms had a system of officials and ceremonies similar to those of the Sidama kingdoms of modern Ethiopia. That is, the original cultural influences seem to have come partly from that area. It is also possible that some ceremonies have been passed on from ancient Egypt of the Pharaohs. -- http://www.angelfire.com/mac/egmatthews/worldinfo/africa/rwanda.html
Today, the Tutsi, Twa, and the Hutu all speak Kinyarwanda
Amon - God of Africa
quote: Rwandans traditionally believe in a supreme being called Imana. While Imana's actions influence the whole world, Rwanda is his home where he comes to spend the night. -- Rwanda, the Bradt travelguide, p26
Compare this example with that of Amma of the Dogon, Amon of the Yoruba, Amon of the Kememou...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Welly let me ask you Straight up...do you think that African languages are mis-classified? I mean what's being demonstrated here is two supposedly different language families carring the same words and same meaning for things,ie Kemetic fahaka - silvery fish -<>-Yoruba fahaka - silvery fish . sorry if this question is kinda ot.
The God Amman/Amma links many African groups and the Dravidian people of India who originated in Africa. This god was probably worshipped by Saharan people who probably created a great civilization in Middle Africa probably long before the rise of ancient Egypt.
The Dravidian god Amma(n) is associated with the ram god: Amun/Amon. In addition to Amman, being associated with goddesses, in DED 183 we find that Amman also means ‘uncle, wife’s father’ and etc.. This makes it clear that the term Amman was associated with both goddesses and honored—high respected men.
The earliest representation of the ram god appeared in the Sahara, the homeland of the Dravidians, Elamites, Sumerians, the Egyptians and other Black African groups. It was in the Sahara that we see the first example of the ram holding a disc or sphere which came to symbolize the Egyptian god Amon. These ancient people were called Kushites are associated with the Proto-Saharan cultures and the C-Group. Due to the association of Amon with the Kushites, the Priestess of Amon, had to be a Kushite.
Diop has made it clear that Amon was the god of Black Africa. Among the Dravidians Amon was called Amman. Mrs. T. Aravanan, made it clear that the Pandyan people of Kumarinadu worshipped the goddess Kumari Amman. Kumarinadu, according to tradition was ruled by the Pandians/ Pandyans. She says that Kumarinadu was situated south of present-day South India.
The Dravidian literary evidence indicate that Dravidians, probably speaking Tamil, invanded South India from Kumarinadu. In Kalittokai 104, we read “In order to compensate the area lost to the great waves of the sea, King Paandia without tiresome moved to the other countries and won them. Removing the emblems of tiger [Cholas] and bow [Cheras] he, in their places inscribed his reputed emblem fish [Pandias] and valiantly made his enemies bow to him”.
The mention of the “fish emblem” in the Kalittokai provides textual support to the African origin of the Dravidians. Many peoples in the Western Sahara claim that they are descendants of the Ma [Fish] Confederation or Mande clan. Thus we have the Mande people of West Africa, and the Dogon who claim descent from Mande. It is interesting to note that among the Kannanda, Telugu and Tulu the term : Mande or Mandi, denotes persons or people.
The leading tribes of that claim descent from Ma include the Dogon and Mande. Before the introduction of Islam, the Mande worshipped Athene or Neith and Amon. They called Neith, Nia and Amon was called N’ama.
The Dogon called Amon, Amma. Accoridng to the Dogon Amma descends from the sky and is a symbol of humidity and rain. The Dogon Amma, is analogous to KumariAmman of the Tamil.
Pandia association with the fish, associates these Tamils with other ancient Blacks descending from the Ma Clan. Fish tails, were a common feature of the Egyptians, Elamites, Sumerians and Proto-Dravidians. The common god of the Fish Clan was the manfish (of Eridu) in Mesopotamia and Syria and the ithyphallic forms of Min, proto-type of Amon in Egypt, the goddess Minaksi of Madura, the goddess of the fish eyes, the Malabar fish bearer of Mana and the sacred fishes of the Mapilla of the West coast of the Dekkan.The Dogon,claim they came from the great Nommo, who was represented by fish signs. The Kings of people descending from the Ma Confederation were called MNS, e,g., Menes or King Aha of Egypt, Mannan among the Dravidians and Mansa, among the Mande speaking people of West Africa.
The Greeks claim that the father of the goddess Neith, who was worshipped by many Black African groups was Poseidon or potidan ‘ he who gives to drink the wooded mountain’ [boat]. Since Neith or Athene is said to have been born in the Proto-Sahara beside Lake Tritonis, we can assume that the worship of Poseidon was common among the people of the Ma Confederation. The symbol of Poseidon was the trident.
Poseidon seems to relate to an aspect of the Dravidian god Siva. The god Siva is sometimes referred to as the “Great Fish’ and represented by Fish signs. Throughout Tamilnadu tridents are found in association to temples, and the god Siva.
Just as the Kalittokai mentioned that the totem of the Pandia was the fish, we find that Africans along the Indian Ocean, which would have been part of Kumarinadu, worshipped Poseidon.
The Greeks reported that the people from the eastern coast of Africa worshipped Poseidon. According to Strabo, Eudoxus of Cyzicus reported the people Ethiopia to Somalia and Nubia were Icthiyophage who worshipped Poseidon. They often referred to Ethiopia and Somalia as Poseidonia.
In conclusion, the ancient Dravidians belonged to the Ma Confederation, and the Dravidian term Amman can refer to goddesses and male figures. The leaders of this Confederation founded many ancient civilizations which had the Fish as their standard. The worship of Amman originated in the Sahara where the early worship of Poseidon probably also originated given the fact his daughter was Neith/Athene. The Pandia/Pandyans called their god KumariAmma(n), like other followers of the Ma Confederation.
Due to the relationship between Amma, and fishes and the sea, we find that at Kodikarai, there is a Dravidian custom that the ship crews worship Mariammon before they go out to sea.
.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Some of you may find one problem, as I did, in reading Dr. Winters' webpage - the black type on a red background is barely readeable! Here's perhaps a better solution...(one other little quibble - I despise the term 'Afrocentric'!)
quote:The Linguistic Methods of Chiekh Anta Diop By Clyde Winters
Chiekh Anta Diop has contributed much to the Afrocentric social sciences. Here we discuss many of Diop's views on using the linguistic sciences to rediscover the ancient history of Blacks. Chiekh Anta Diop has made important contributions to linguistic theory in relation to African historiography. Diop's work illustrates that it is important for scholars to maintain a focus on the historical and linguistic factors which define the "personnalitè culturelle africaine" (Diop 1991, 227). Language is the sanctum sanctorum of Diop's Afrocentric historical method. The Diopian view of historiography combines the research of linguistics, history and psychology to interpret the cultural unity of African people. C. Anta Diop is the founder of modern Afrocentricism . Diop (1974,1991) laid the foundations for the Afrocentric idea in education. He laid these foundations using both the historical and anthropological/linguistic methods of research to explain the role of the Blacks in World History. There are three components in the genetic model: 1) common Physical type, 2) common cultural patterns and 3) genetically related languages. (Winters 1989a) Diop over the years has brought to bear all three of these components in his illumination of Kemetic civilization. (Diop 1974,1977,1978,1991) The opposition of many Eurocentric scholars to Afrocentric -ism results from white hostility to Diop's idea of a Black Egypt, and the view that Egyptians spoke an African ,rather than Afro-Asiatic language. Recently, Eurocentric American scholars have alleged to write reviews of Diop's recent book (Diop 1991). Although these reviewers mention the work of Diop in their articles, they never review his work properly, because they lack the ability to understand the many disciplines that Diop has mastered.(Lefkowitz 1992; Baines 1991) For example Lefkowitz (1992) in The New Republic, summarizes Diop (1974) but never presents any evidence to dispute the findings of Diop. The most popular "review" of Diop (1991) was done by Baines (1991) review in the New York Times Book Review. In this "review" Baines (1991) claims that "...the evidence and reasoning used to support the arguments are often unsound". Instead of addressing the evidence Diop (1991) presents of the African role in the rise of civilization that he alleges is "unsound", he is asking the reader to reject Diop's thesis without refutation of specific evidence presented by Diop of the African contributions to Science and Philosophy. Baines (l991) claims that Diop's Civilization or Barbarism, is not a work of originality, he fails to dispute any factual evidence presented by Diop. Baines (1991) wants the public to accept his general negative comments about Civilization or Barbarism ,based on the fact that he is an Egyptologist. This is not enough, in academia to refute a thesis one must present counter evidence that proves the falseness of a thesis not unsubstantiated rhetoric. We can not accept the negative views of Baines on faith alone. In the recovery of information concerning the African past, Diop promotes semantic anthropology, comparative linguistics and the study of Onomastics. The main thesis of Diop is that typonymy and ethnonymy of Africa point to a common cradle for Paleo-Africans in the Nile Valley (Diop 1978, 67). Onomastics is the science of names. Diop has studied legends, placenames and religious cult terms to discover the unity of African civilization. Diop (1981, 86) observed that: "An undisputed linguistic relationship between two geographically remote groups of languages can be relevant for the study of migrations. A grammatical (or genetic) relationship if clear enough is never an accident". As a result, Diop has used toponyms (place-names), anthroponyms (personal names) and ehthnonyms (names of ethnic groups/tribes) to explain the evidence of analogous ethnic (clan) names in West Africa and the Upper Nile (Diop 1991). In Precolonial Black Africa, Diop used ethnonyms to chart the migrations of African people in West Africa. And in The African Origin of Civilization, Diop used analyses acculturaliste or typological analysis to study the origin and spread of African cultural features from the Nile Valley to West Africa through his examination of toponyms (Diop 1974, 182-183). In the Cultural Unity of Black Africa, Diop discussed the common totems and religious terms many African ethnic groups share (Diop 1978, 124). LINGUISTIC TAXONOMY This linguistic research has been based on linguistic classification or taxonomy. Linguistic taxonomy is the foundation upon which comparative and historical linguistic methods are based (Ruhlen 1994). Linguistic taxonomy is necessary for the identification of language families. The determination of language families give us the material to reconstruct the proto-language of a people and discover regular sound correspondences. There are three major kinds of language classifications: genealogical, typological, and areal. A genealogical classifica-tion groups languages together into language families based on the shared features retained by languages since divergence from the common ancestor or proto-language. An areal classification groups languages into linguistic areas based on shared features acquired by a process of convergence arising from spatial proximity. A typological classification groups languages together into language types by the similarity in the appearance of the structure of languages without consideration of their historical origin and present, or past geographical distribution.
COMPARATIVE METHOD Diop has used comparative and historical linguistics to illuminate the Unity of African civilization. Diop (1977, xxv) has noted that "The process for the evolution of African languages is clearly apparent; from a far we (have) the idea that Wolof is descendant by direct filiation to ancient Egyptian, but the Wolof, Egyptian and other African languages (are) derived from a common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common African or the Negro- African of L. Homburger or of Th. Obenga." The comparative method is used by linguists to determine the relatedness of languages, and to reconstruct earlier language states. The comparative linguist has two major goals (1) trace the history of language families and reconstruct the mother language of each family, and (2) determine the forces which affect language. In general, comparative linguists are interested in determining phonetic laws, analogy/ correspondence and loan words. Diop is a strong supporter of the comparative method in the rediscovery of Paleo-African. The reconstruction of Paleo-African involves both reconstruction and recognition of regular sound correspondence. The goal of reconstruction is the discovery of the proto-language of African people is the recovery of Paleo-African: (1) vowels and consonants (2) specific Paleo-African words (3) common grammatical elements; and (4) common syntactic elements. The comparative method is useful in the reconstruction of Proto-languages or Diop's Paleo-African. To reconstruct a proto-language the linguist must look for patterns of correspondences. Patterns of correspondence is the examination of terms which show uniformity. This uniformity leads to the inference that languages are related since uniformity of terms leads to the inference that languages are related since conformity of terms in two or more languages indicate they came from a common ancestor.
HISTORICAL LINGUISTICS A person's language provides us with evidence of the elements of a group's culture. Diop has noted that reconstruction of Paleo-African terms can help us make inferences about a group's culture going backwards in time to an impenetrable past undocumented by written records. This is semantic anthropology, a linguistic approach which seeks to discover aspects of man's culture from his language. Thusly, linguistic resemblances can help the anthropologist make precise inferences about a groups culture elements. Linguistic resemblances denote a historical relationship. This suggest that resemblances in fundamental vocabulary and culture terms can help one reconstruct the culture of the speakers of genetically related languages. LINGUISTIC CONSTANCY The rate at which languages change is variable. It appears that linguistic change is culture specific. Consequently, the social organization and political culture of a particular speech community can influence the speed at which languages change. Based on the history of language change in Europe most linguists believe that the rate of change for all languages is both rapid and constant.(Diagne, 1981,p.238) The idea that all languages change rapidly is not valid for all the World's languages. African languages change much slower than European languages. (Armstrong, 1962) For example, African vocabulary items collected by Arab explorers over a thousand years ago are analogous to contemporary lexical items.(Diagne,1981, p.239) In addition there are striking resemblances between the ancient Egyptian language and Coptic, and Pharonic Egyptian and African languages.(Diagne, 1981; Diop, 1977; Obenga, 1993) The political stability of African political institutions has caused languages to change very slowly in Africa. Pawley and Ross (1993) argue that a sedentary life style may account for the conservative nature of a language. African oral traditions and the eye witness accounts of travelers to Africa, make it clear that African empires although made up of diverse nationalities illustrated continuity. To accomodate the plural nature of African empires Africans developed a Federal system of government. (Niane , 1984) In fact we can not really describe ancient African state systems as empires, since this implies absolute rule or authority in a single individual. This political state of affairs rarely existed in ancient Africa, because in each African speech community local leadership was elected by the people within the community. (Diop, 1987) For example the Egyptians often appointed administrators over the conquered territories from among the conquered people. (Diop ,1991) The continuity of many African languages may result from the steady state nature of African political systems, and long standing cultural stability since neolithic times. (Diop, 1991 ; Winters 1985) This cultural stability has affected the speed at which African languages change. In Africa due to the relative stability of socio-political structures and settled life, there has not been enough pressure exerted on African societies as a whole and African speech communities in particular, to cause radical internal linguistic changes within most African languages. Permanent settlements led to a clearly defined system of inheritance and royal succession. These traits led to stability on both the social and political levels. This leads to the hypothesis that linguistic continuity exist in Africa due to the stability of African socio-political structures and cultural systems. This relative cultural stability has led African languages to change more slowly then European and Asian languages. Diop (1974) observed that: First the evolution of languages, instead of moving everywhere at the same rate of speed seems linked to other factors; such as , the stability of social organizations or the opposite, social upheavals. Understandably in relatively stable societies man's language has changed less with the passage of time.(pp.153-154) There is considerable evidence which supports the African continuity concept. Dr. Armstrong (1962) noted the linguistic continuity of African languages when he used glottochronology to test the rate of change in Yoruba. Comparing modern Yoruba words with a list of identical terms collected 130 years ago by Koelle , Dr. Armstrong found little if any internal or external changes in the terms. He concluded that: I would have said that on this evidence African languages are changing with glacial slowness, but it seems to me that in a century a glacier would have changed a lot more than that. Perhaps it would be more in order to say that these languages are changing with geological slowness. (Armstrong, 1962, p.285). Diop's theory of linguistic constancy recognizes the social role language plays in African language change. Language being a variable phenomena has as much to do with a speaker's society as with the language itself. Thus social organization can influence the rate of change within languages. Meillet (1926, 17) wrote that: Since language is a social institution it follows that linguistics is a social science, and the only variable element to which one may appeal in order to account for a linguistic change is social change, of which language variations are but the consequences. THE BLACK AFRICAN ORIGIN OF EGYPT Diop has contributed much to African linguistics. He was a major proponent of the Dravidian-African relationship (Diop 1974, 116), and the African substratum in Indo-European languages in relationship to cacuminal sounds and terms for social organiza-tion and culture (1974, 115). Diop (1978, 113) also recognized that in relation to Arabic words, after the suppression of the first consonant, there is often an African root. Diop's major linguistic effort has been the classification of Black African and Egyptian languages . Up until 1977 Diop'smajor area of interest were morphological and phonological similarities between Egyptian and Black African languages. Diop (1977, 77-84) explains many of his sound laws for the Egyptian-Black African connection. In Parènte Génétique de l'Egyptien pharraonique et des Langues Négro Africaines (PGEPLNA), Diop explains in some detail his linguistic views in the introduction of this book. In PGEPLNA , Diop demonstrates the genetic relationship between ancient Egyptian and the languages of Black Africa. Diop provides thousands of cognate Wolof and Egyptian terms in support of his Black African-Egyptian linguistic relationship. PALEO-AFRICAN African languages are divided into Supersets (i.e., a family of genetically related languages, e.g., Niger-Congo) sets, and subsets. In the sets of African languages there are many parallels between phonological terms, eventhough there may be an arbitrary use of consonants which may have a similar sound. The reason for these changes is that when the speakers of Paleo-African languages separated, the various sets of languages underwent separate developments. As a result a /b/ sound in one language may be /p/ or /f/ in a sister language. For example, in African languages the word for father may be baba , pa or fa, while in the Dravidian languages we have appan to denote father. Diop has noted that reconstruction of Paleo-African terms can help us make inferences about an ethnic group's culture going backwards in time to an impenetrable past undocumented by written records. This is semantic anthropology, a linguistic approach which seeks to discover aspects of man's culture from his language. Thusly, linguistic resemblances can help the anthropologists make precise inferences about a linguistic group's cultural elements. BLACKS IN WEST ASIA In PGEPLNA Diop makes clear his views on the role of African languages in the rise of other languages. Using archaeological evidence Diop makes it clear that the original West Asians: Elamites and Sumerians were of Black origin (1974, 1977, xxix-xxxvii). Diop (1974, 1991) advocates the unity of Black Africans and Blacks in West Asia. Winters (1985,1989,1994) has elaborated on the linguistic affinity of African and West Asian languages. This view is supported by linguistic evidence. For example these languages share demonstrative bases: Proximate Distant Finite Dravidian i a u Manding i a u Sumerian bi a Wolof i a u The speakers of West Asian and Black African languages also share basic culture items: Chief city,village black,burnt Dravidian cira, ca uru kam Elamite Salu Sumerian Sar ur Manding Sa furu kami,"charcoal' Nubia sirgi mar Egyptian Sr mer kemit Paleo-African *sar *uru *kam
OBENGA Obenga (1978) gives a phonetic analysis of Black African and Egyptian. He illustrates the genetic affinity of consonants within the Black African (BA) and Egyptian languages especially the occlusive bilateral sonorous, the occlusive nasal apico-dental /n/ and /m/ , the apico-alveolar /r/ and the radical proto-form sa: 'man, female, posterity' in Black Africa. Language Agaw asau, aso 'masculine Sidama asu 'man' Oromo asa id. Caffino aso id. Yoruba so 'produce' Meroitic s' man Fonge sunu id. Bini eso 'someone' Kikongo sa,se,si 'father' Swahili (m)zee 'old person' Egyptian sa 'man' Manding si,se 'descendant,posterity,family' Azer se 'individual, person'
Obenga (1978) also illustrated the unity between the verbs 'to come, to be, to arrive': Language Egyptian ii, ey Samo, Loma dye Mbosi yaa Bisa gye Sidama/Omo wa Wolof nyeu Caffino wa Peul yah, yade Yoruba wa Fonge wa Bini ya Mpongwe bya Manding ya,dya Swahili (Ku)ya between t =/= d, highlight the alternation patterns of many Paleo-African consonants including b =/= p, l =/= r ,and g =/= k. The Egyptian term for grain is 0 sa #. This corresponds to many African terms for seed,grain: Galla senyi Malinke se , si Sumerian se Egyptian sen 'granary' Kannanda cigur Bozo sii Bambara sii Daba sisin Somali sinni Loma sii Susu sansi Oromo sanyi Dime siimu Egyptian ssr 'corn' id. ssn 'lotus plant' id. sm 'herb, plant' id. isw 'weeds' In conclusion, Diop has done much to encourage the African recovery of their history. His theories on linguistics has inspired many African scholars to explain and elaborate the African role in the history of Africa and the world. This has made his work important to our understanding of the role of Black people in History. Here we have shown the methods Anta Diop has used to rediscover the long and great history of Africans in Africa and the world. This methods allow us to reconstruct the Paleo-African culture formerly practiced by Africans in Africa, Asia and the Americas.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Some of you may find one problem, as I did, in reading Dr. Winters' webpage - the black type on a red background is barely readeable! Here's perhaps a better solution...(one other little quibble - I despise the term 'Afrocentric'!
Sorry you don't like the term Afrocentric, but I am an Afrocentric scholar.
You may be interested in another paper on Afrocentric linguistic methods Here . Enjoy.
.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I don't think this term is a match for what you are saying. But it is a strong candidate for the word SAMBO. Sambo in Mande/Vai means "to be a disgrace/ or be ashamed." (see Africanisms in American Culture pg408). You would only be a disgrace if you did something bad or "evil" within the community. You feel ashamed when you have done something wrong.
Remember that in Uncle Tom's Cabin, the "wicked" one was not Uncle Tom, he was the hero. It was Sambo who was the dastardly one. So a Sambo would be associated with a "devil" if we want to make it that strong of a term.
devil Look up devil at Dictionary.com O.E. deofol "evil spirit," from L.L. diabolus, from Gk. diabolos "accuser, slanderer" (scriptural loan-translation of Heb. satan), from diaballein "to slander, attack," lit. "throw across," from dia- "across, through" + ballein "to throw"
Sambo is the one who attacked "Uncle Tom" in the story with the whip. He would be classified as a devil.
I think we have a cognate.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: • SAMBA (noun)
The noun SAMBA has 4 senses: 1. large west African tree having large palmately lobed leaves and axillary cymose panicles of small white flowers and one-winged seeds; yields soft white to pale yellow wood 2. music composed for dancing the samba 3. a lively ballroom dance from Brazil 4. a form of canasta using three decks of cards and six jokers
• SAMBA (verb) The verb SAMBA has 1 sense: 1. dance the samba
Standard etymology: Brazilian dance of African origin, 1885, Zemba, from Port. samba, shortened form of zambacueca, a type of dance, probably altered (by influence of zamacueco "stupid") from zambapalo, the name of a grotesque dance, itself an alteration of zampapalo "stupid man," from zamparse "to bump, crash."
...ANALYSIS APPEARS TO HAVE STOPPED A TAD SHORT BY STOPPING IN WEST AFRICA...
SAMBA
HMMMM, FIERY SOUL; WELL, YOU MAKE THE CALL...
Hint: Fiery -Tempestuous or emotionally volatile; Spirited or filled with emotion
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ...Sorry you don't like the term Afrocentric, but I am an Afrocentric scholar.
You may be interested in another paper on Afrocentric linguistic methods Here . Enjoy.
.
...it's ok, I pursue informed scholarship and not titles, but here is why I don't like the term:
Eurocentric; the practice of viewing the world from a European perspective, with the implied belief in the superiority of European/ Western culture.
you can also add in this category; Sinocentric, ethnocentric, egocentric...
and now we have the equally narrow and subjective - Afrocentric
Professor Diop was NOT an Afrocentric professor, but rather an African historian. His reasons for revealing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans was not meant to infer any type of superiority of Black African culture but merely to correct the distortions created by Western culture and more importantly, to inform Black Africans of their true historical heritage.
...and the purpose of this topic is to inform and re-enforce the fact that African Americans are not only related to the Ancient Egyptians on the basis of their sharing a common racial identity but they are related genetically (ancestrally) as well...
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
"to inform Black Africans of their true historical heritage."
And Afrocentricity is not about this? I must be misreading Prof. Molefi Asante. In any event, it seems Wally's stance on Afrocentricity might be a reflection of his tendency to rely to white peoples perceptions of a black phenomena, hence his view of Afrocentricity as simply a mirror image of Eurocentrism. It seems he uses this methodology to inform his thinking, hence his opening post where he echoes the familiar false charge against Garvey using Cronon (of all people) as a source.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I don't think this term is a match for what you are saying. But it is a strong candidate for the word SAMBO. Sambo in Mande/Vai means "to be a disgrace/ or be ashamed." (see Africanisms in American Culture pg408). You would only be a disgrace if you did something bad or "evil" within the community. You feel ashamed when you have done something wrong.
Remember that in Uncle Tom's Cabin, the "wicked" one was not Uncle Tom, he was the hero. It was Sambo who was the dastardly one. So a Sambo would be associated with a "devil" if we want to make it that strong of a term...I think we have a cognate...
...what we also have is a synonym; words which many seem to insist don't exist in the Mtau Ntr by inferring only a singular meaning to a word.
The Mtau Ntr word Samba (Sambi, Sambu,...) can mean:
a) fiery soul
b) fiendish devil
c) tempestuous one ...
evolved into Americanisms (including Brazil);
Samba - Tempestuous dance
Sambo - fiendish person
...thus Lil' Black Sambo could also be expressed as Lil' Black rascal...
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Again Wally, you have a tendency to assume that because a word has multiple meanings that all of the meanings apply to all situations. There is no logical way you can pass off "fiery soul" for SAMBA which is a dance. Although highly energetic form of dance, you would have to demonstrate in the native languages that the word Samba means anything remotely close to fiery soul.
I can prove using the Egyptian and Mande languages that Sambo and Samba are close matches (a person of dubious character - a devil). You have to demonstrate this in the examples you use as they are far fetched examples.
For Samba also means to comfort, to cheer, console in the Bantu languages. As a personal name it is Samb, Samba (Wolof), Sambu (Mandingo), and Sambo (Hausa). It came to mean man, young black man in the United States.
Now if you said that cheering is a major part of Samba music, you would have a closer match to the dance and style of music in Brazil. but to cheer is a far cry from "fiery soul" attached to a devil or fiend in the underworld in ancient Egypt.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I agree. As much as I've studied Africentric literature, including Asante's, the ideas expressed by Wally are far from the reality on this term. It by no means is a mirror to the term Eurocentrism. Plain and simple, Afrocentrism espouses that in order to fully analyze literature about African people, the analysis must be anchored, oriented from the standpoint of the people whom one is studying (the Africans). It is a simple logic. There is not one human being in this day and age who is not born into a culture. Your culture shapes how you define and interpret reality. You cannot use your reality to fully interpret and prescribe destiny on other cultures. So to understand that culture, you must see things through their lens.
Quantum mechanics (with the double slit experiment) has already falsified the concept that one can be totally objective in regards to any kind of analysis and Africentric scholars have been saying this for years: there is no such thing as objectivity. So to understand human beings, you must acknowledge your own cultural bias and attempt to make an analysis based on the testimony of the people who live, breath and sleep the culture under examination. Anything less renders you intellectually handicapped.
Thus, there is no such thing as Africentric = superiority of Blacks. You must read the Africentric literature in order to critique it.
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: "to inform Black Africans of their true historical heritage."
And Afrocentricity is not about this? I must be misreading Prof. Molefi Asante. In any event, it seems Wally's stance on Afrocentricity might be a reflection of his tendency to rely to white peoples perceptions of a black phenomena, hence his view of Afrocentricity as simply a mirror image of Eurocentrism. It seems he uses this methodology to inform his thinking, hence his opening post where he echoes the familiar false charge against Garvey using Cronon (of all people) as a source.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Afrocentric means different things to different people...I when I first became awere of the term it meant looking at history and such from your own point of view for example if you wanted to talk about the civil-war you would start with your great grand-mother's stories, or if you had an ancestor that fought in the civilwar. Ancient international trade networks, start with central Africa...Kush,Kemet,Yam,and work your way up to the lavant and beyond,mathematics..see Africa counts,...not that Africans created everything of value and no one else did anything,but to make sure our input is not obescured nor ignored.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Afrocentric means different things to different people...
You have accurately described a subjective (opinionated) instance, as exhibited by Boggled and Asar's subjectivism and their defense thereof.
The difference between Objective and Subjective reality
Objective: undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena -"water is liquid, wet"
Subjective: taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias - "I think I can fly unassisted"
Sinocentric, ethnocentric, egocentric, Afrocentric are all subjective ideas (opinions).
Ex: Objective Truth: Humans cannot fly unassisted
Subjective Truth: You may personally think that you can fly unassisted; so try it, go up on the roof of a 20 story building, leap off in order to test your belief - You will soon discover the Objective truth...
Objective Truth: the purpose of this topic is to inform and re-enforce the fact that African Americans are not only related to the Ancient Egyptians on the basis of their sharing a common racial identity but they are related genetically (ancestrally) as well.
Any relevant comments, proof of concurrence or proof of disagreement, will be gladly welcomed... Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Here is a simple question and let's see if you can answer this objectively. Do you "smoke" a cigarette? Not you personally, but in general. Do you "smoke" a cigarette? And I am basing this off of your "objective example" of is water wet.
Simple question.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
Afrocentric - The simple meaning would be: "placing Africa at the center", i.e. the focal point.
The term attained baggage amongst some observers, because some self-proclaimed "Afrocentrists" have been associated with spreading inaccurate information, and seen as unduly seeing Africa in matters where it is not directly implicated.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Afrocentric - The simple meaning would be: "placing Africa at the center", i.e. the focal point.
The term attained baggage amongst some observers, because some self-proclaimed "Afrocentrists" have been associated with spreading inaccurate information, and seen as unduly seeing Africa in matters where it is not directly implicated.
Afrocentrism got a bad name because Hunter Adams and Ivan van Sertima could not defend their propositions in the 1990. Both of these individuals never claimed to be Afrocentric scholars.
Ivan popularized much knolwedge but he was never a primary researcher. He made his name as a result, of his book They came before Columbus, and the Journal of African Civilization.
Hunter got in trouble because he pretended to be a scientist at Argon National Lab when he was really a janitor. I tried to help Hunter and in fact I translated for him much of the information on the Dogon. Back then since he was an employee of the University of Chicago--they would have paid for Hunter to complete his degree. Hunter refused and he embarssed himself.
Hunter talked about many things he learned from myself, and Richard King --so when it came time for him and Ivan to support their research they could not do so. It was this failure to do research on the topics they discussed in the Portland Essays that allowed them to be embarassed by Time Magazine and the New York Times.
By the 1990's I was doing research on Meroitic writing, the Indus Valley script and Dravidian Studies. But due to the fact Ivan and Hunter were unable to defend the field of study I wrote
quote:
Title: Afrocentrism: A Valid Frame of Reference.
Authors:
Winters, Clyde Ahmad
Descriptors:
Terms from the Thesaurus of ERIC Descriptors; used to tag materials by subject to aid information search and retrieval. Click on a Descriptor to initiate any new search using that term. Afrocentrism; Ancient History; Blacks; Criticism; Cultural Influences; Ethnic Relations; Ethnocentrism; Foreign Countries; Foreign Culture; Greek Civilization; Non Western Civilization; Sociocultural Patterns
Journal of Black Studies, v25 n2 p170-90 Dec 1994
Young people due to the fact that what they know about Afrocentrism has been interpreted by Europeans they believe the field is invalid. Because these young people have not read the Afrocentric literature, and lack the ability to critically evaluate Eurocentric literature they accept the negative comments of these authors regarding the work of Afrocentric scholars like Diop. This is sad, because if they "read" the literature they would see that none of their arguments is legitimate.
Today, as in the past no Afrocentric researcher: W.E.B. DuBois, J.A. Rogers, C. Woodson, A. Diop and etc. has had their work falsified because they used the latest research to outline Africana history.
As a result, I am proud to declare that I am an Afrocentric scholar. The people who avoid this term , are usually people who lack confidence in themselves and do know how to conduct research.
.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Any relevant comments, proof of concurrence or proof of disagreement, will be gladly welcomed...
LOL! Dude, you are the last person in here to be talking about "objective truth". In your opening post you used a biased white man's interpretation of the Garvey experience to masquerade as "fact". Then consistently avoided all requests to back it up. Is this your idea of objectivity?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Here is a simple question and let's see if you can answer this objectively. Do you "smoke" a cigarette? Not you personally, but in general. Do you "smoke" a cigarette? And I am basing this off of your "objective example" of is water wet.
Simple question.
Seems like everyone wants to talk about everything BUT the topic...
> Objectively, a person inhales the smoke from a burning cigarette, either directly or indirectly...a lit cigarette burns and emits smoke with or without any further assistance...
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I bring up this simple example because in the Kongo they don't "smoke" cigarettes, they "drink" cigarettes.
In order to fully understand their concept of smoking, you would have articulate the phenomena from their vantage point. An African-Centered researcher would articulate the phenomenon from the the Bakongo perspective, not the European concept of "smoking" as they have a different connotation for that concept.
Another example is with the concept of the word Earth. Earth in the European context means "dirt" and refers to the planet in general, but whose etymology traces it to the soil with no other connotation.
That is not the case in the Kongo. The word for earth is FUTU. Futu is a "sachet of medicine tied up by Kalunga (God)." In other words, the Earth is more than 'dirt' in the Bakongo context. It is a "sachet" of medicines that are hidden under the earth. Plants are "pipes" that draw up medicines from the hidden aspects of the soil.
What is being hinted at here is that Europeans think "dirt" when they talk about the earth. So this is why they can destroy the habitat for commercial gain because they don't see it as a source of life.
The Bakongo people view the earth as their source of medicine, the source of our healing potential, and this mentality directly governs how they approach the exploitation of the fertility of the earth. By destroying the contents of the earth, no matter how "insignificant" a plant or animal may seem, it could have disastrous effects on our ability to heal ourselves. Thus why every aspect of nature is "sacred" and why taboos and rituals are associated with the engagement of certain things in nature.
If we were to look at these examples given above from a Eurocentric standpoint, we would miss key points of understanding which would directly inform our analysis. Thus there is no such thing as "objectivity" in any sense of the case.
Only by respecting African people as agents of their own reality will you be able to understand who they are and can accurately assess their culture.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Again, seems like everyone wants to talk about everything BUT the topic...
"Afrocentric" scholar is a term used to refer to Black intellectuals who write and do research on Black folks, thus:
Diop is an "Afrocentric" but Frank Yurco, Basil Davidson are not (Black).
Book II of the Greek historian Herodotus deals exclusively with Egypt and Sudan and things African; was this "Afrocentric" or "Grecocentric?"
What about Budge, Gardiner, etc...?
Now, we know that Breasted, Coons, Wells, et al were White racists, why gussie it up by using the term "Eurocentric?"
"Afrocentric," like "Egyptologist" is a category of academia and if you want to work there you must pursue those "titles"...This too, is an objective reality!
Professor Diop was a African historian, Egyptologist, linguist, anthropologist, economist, and sociologist. If he had decided to come to the U.S. to work, he would, like multi-degree Dr. Theophile Obenga, be assigned to the Africana Studies Center (SF State)...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I bring up this simple example because in the Kongo they don't "smoke" cigarettes, they "drink" cigarettes.
Whether you're in the Kongo or in Brooklyn, people don't "smoke" cigarettes or "drink" them, it's what they choose to subjectively call inhaling the smoke from a burning cigarette.
Objectively, a person inhales the smoke from a burning cigarette, either directly or indirectly...a lit cigarette burns and emits smoke with or without any further assistance...
To deny Objective truth/reality is, at best, silly... (BTW: Your description of the Kongo's subjective view of the earth is remarkably similar to that of Native Americans; but I'm not a Navahocentric, so what do I know?...)
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Again, seems like everyone wants to talk about everything BUT the topic...
Ahmmm, I would like to discuss the topic. In your opening post you say Garvey was importing a West Indian color caste system through his conflict with DuBois, please provide evidence for this.
As for the rest of your post, it might be profitable to read Molefi Asante to better understand what Afrocentricity is all about. You don't have to agree with it, but your infantile posturing on the subject only reveals your own subjective views on black cultural nationalism more than any "objective" assessment of Afrocentricity, in my view.
quote:but I'm not a Navahocentric, so what do I know?..
No, you are more like white-centric hence your reliance on white interpretations of the Garvey experience and Afrocentricity. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boggled: Ahmmm, I would like to discuss the topic. In your opening post you say Garvey was importing a West Indian color caste system through his conflict with DuBois, please provide evidence for this.
As for the rest of your post, it might be profitable to read Molefi Asante to better understand what Afrocentricity is all about. You don't have to agree with it, but your infantile posturing on the subject only reveals your own subjective views on black cultural nationalism more than any "objective" assessment of Afrocentricity, in my view.
quote:but I'm not a Navahocentric, so what do I know?..
No, you are more like white-centric hence your reliance on white interpretations of the Garvey experience and Afrocentricity.
I already have provided the proof, and in this very topic, can't you keep up?
It's probably helpful to point out to you that Dr. DuBois is African American!
O confused one,
I have read and studied Molefi Kete Asante, J.A. Rogers, DuBois, Diop, Obenga, Dr. Winters, Chancellor Williams, Yosef Ben-Jochannan, ........
Now, please re-read this post until you fully understand...
You'll probably need a little help...
quote: This view echoed DuBois's earlier statement in his essay "Back to Africa," in which he claimed that Garvey brought to America "the new West Indian conception of the color line" (p.541).
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: It's probably helpful to point out to you that Dr. DuBois is African American!
For god sakes Wally if calling Dubois a mulatto traitor is your "evidence" that Garvey was trying to import a color caste distinction from the West Indies then you are worse than I thought! Don't you know he was responding to Dubois' article that refered to him as black and ugly? Are you going to argue that DuBois was trying to import a West Indian color caste sytem by that particular attack on Garvey? Your logic is amazing Wally.
quote:Now, please re-read this post until you fully understand...
You'll probably need a little help... This view echoed DuBois's earlier statement in his essay "Back to Africa," in which he claimed that Garvey brought to America "the new West Indian conception of the color line" (p.541).
Edit: re-posting Dubois and Cronon's interpretation is not "evidence". Sorry, try again.
quote:I have read and studied Molefi Kete Asante,
Then clearly your problem is one of comprehension. Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Obviously Wally has not read Afrocentricity by Molefi Kete Asante. If he did he wouldn't try to pass off that illogical definition of afrocentricity as something remotely authentic. There is not anything else one can say on this. He hasn't read the material on Afrocentrism. One of the first things Asante states is that Afrocentricity is not about people who simply write about Africa. That's in the opening chapter. I'd advise Wally that you actually read the material then critique. Plain and simple, you just don't make any sense what so ever and any credibility you had on any subject articulated by you on this forum raises serious questions about your aptitude to comprehend the very subjects you seek to defend. If you can't get Afrocentrism/Afrocentricity correct, then it is impossible for you to interpret correctly any aspect of an African reality because you lack the tools of analysis to do relevant research.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Wally seems to speed read his sources and is too willing to pass off biased sources - like DuBois' article - as "fact". This is strange for someone who just finished ranting about "objectivity". He leans towards standard integrationist, socialist interpretations of the Garvey experience. In familiar style, he points finger at Garvey as being the guilty one trying to import a West Indian color caste system and seems to think "African American ideology", I'm assuming the thinking of the prominent leaders of that day, is somehow "caste-free"; this is simplistic as best, as if this was the case, why did DuBois refer to Garvey as black and ugly? Why did his African American detractors (mostly socialists) label the UNIA as being made up of mostly "primitive West Indians"? Isn't that establishing a caste system?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Why is a little white british b*tch boy like you obsessed with black issues in the first place?? Is it because one of your boyfriends is black?? Get your bloody gapingass back to the stalls, wap! Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...this is clearly recess time...
If I don't accept the tenets of "Afrocentrism" then I have not read Molefi Asante, and I definitely cannot interpret any aspect of African reality!
Then I have Boggled using an ol' African Americanism of accusing me of 'thinking white' - what anti-intellectual Black kids used to deride African American students who read books and got good grades...
Yes, definitely recess time...
Shall we now return to class???
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
BACK TO CLASS!
HERE'S DUBOIS' ANALYSIS OF THE CASTE SYSTEM IN JAMAICA, WHICH DID NOT EXIST IN THE UNITED STATES, WHICH RESULTED IN A MORE COHESIVE, PAN-AFRICAN ETHNICITY IN THE UNITED STATES...WHICH WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT...
"BACK TO AFRICA" BY W.E.B. DUBOIS Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy?
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: what anti-intellectual Black kids used to deride African American students who read books and got good grades
Wally, Wally, Wally, anti-intellectualism is not using your intellect. When one presents a biased commentary from Garvey's enemy as a "factual" assessment of the Garvey experience then one is clearly not using reason and logic, especially after your rant about objectivity!
Take for instance your Dubois extract, again, you have failed to prove Garvey was importing a color-caste system in America. What you have done is presented DuBois' analysis of the racial hierarchy as it existed in the Caribbean, not in the make up of the UNIA!
Let me take you to school son...
To prove as "fact" that Garvey was trying to import a color-caste system in America you need to:
Bring evidence Garvey organized the UNIA on an anti-Mulatto basis.
Show how his opposition to DuBois was as a result of his light skin not due to his constant attacks on the UNIA, as an agent of the United States.
And as for the absence of a color-caste system in black America at the time, please read Race First where Martin points out that many of the black American "negro leaders" of the day "just happened" to be of a lighter hue. Coincidence?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy?
The Talented Tenth (excerpt) W.E.B. DuBois September 1903
quote: The Negro race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men. The problem of education, then, among Negroes must first of all deal with the Talented Tenth; it is the problem of developing the Best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the Worst, in their own and other races. Now the training of men is a difficult and intricate task. Its technique is a matter for educational experts, but its object is for the vision of seers. If we make money the object of man-training, we shall develop money-makers but not necessarily men; if we make technical skill the object of education, we may possess artisans but not, in nature, men. Men we shall have only as we make manhood the object of the work of the schools intelligence, broad sympathy, knowledge of the world that was and is, and of the relation of men to it this is the curriculum of that Higher Education which must underlie true life. On this foundation we may build bread winning, skill of hand and quickness of brain, with never a fear lest the child and man mistake the means of living for the object of life. If this be true and who can deny it three tasks lay before me; first to show from the past that the Talented Tenth as they have risen among American Negroes have been worthy of leadership; secondly to show how these men may be educated and developed; and thirdly to show their relation to the Negro problem...
...Kwame Nkrumah, the brilliant African leader, invited and received Dr. DuBois in Ghana in order for Dr. DuBois to head the project to create the Encyclopedia Africana...After Dr. DuBois' untimely passing before the completion of this project, his home is now a national shrine in Ghana. Nkrumah admired and respected both Garvey and DuBois.
(For the un-initiated: both DuBois' "Talented Tenth" and Nkrumah's "Convention Peoples' Party" reflected the Marxist revolutionary theory of the need for a vanguard leadership; a handful of the enlightened to lead the masses in the struggle for freedom...) Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: (For the un-initiated: both DuBois' "Talented Tenth" and Nkrumah's "Convention Peoples' Party" reflected the Marxist revolutionary theory of the need for a vanguard leadership; a handful of the enlightened to lead the masses in the struggle for freedom...)
Wrong again Wally. DuBois' Talented Tenth philosophy was an integrationist concept he formulated before his Marxist phase. The "Talented Tenth" would play a leading part in integrating black America mainly through liberal education and political agitation, something both Washington and Garvey opposed. Of course the "Harvard educated" DuBois was frustrated in this effort because he was nothing more than a tool whites used to attack Garvey and black nationhood, something he seemed to relish in. It was then he converted to Marxism and left America. The idea that the talented tenth was some sort of revolutionary Marxist vanguard is downright ludicrous.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I am going to have to disagree with you on this Bogle. When you read Dubois' material, he never was against the programs of Washington. He was against that type of education as the sole method of liberation. From the Training of Black Men:
quote:Strange to relate! for this is certain, no secure civilization can be built in the South with the Negro as an ignorant, turbulent proletariat. Suppose we seek to remedy this by making them laborers and nothing more: they are not fools, they have tasted of the Tree of Life, and they will not cease to think, will not cease attempting to read the riddle of the world. By taking away their best equipped teachers and leaders, by slamming the door of opportunity in the faces of their bolder and brighter minds, will you make them satisfied with their lot?
How is Dubois advocating a liberal arts education any different than the ancient Egyptians? Du Bois in a sense was advocating the same thing, but he wasn't saying we don't need Washington type of education, just that it can't be the only means in which to develop ourselves.
quote: All Occupations Are Bad Except That of the Scribe
See for yourself with your own eye. The occupations lie before you. The washerman's day is going up, going down. All his limbs are weak, [from] whitening his neighbors' clothes every day, from washing their linen. The maker of pots is smeared with soil, like one whose relations have died. His hands, his feet are full of clay; he is like one who lives in the bog. The cobbler mingles with vats. His odor is penetrating. His hands are red with madder, like one who is smeared with blood. He looks behind him for the kite, like one whose flesh is exposed. The watchman prepares garlands and polishes vase-stands. He spends a night of toil just as one on whom the sun shines. The merchants travel downstream and upstream. They are as busy as can be, carrying goods from one town to another. They supply him who has wants. But the tax collectors carry off the gold, that most precious of metals. The ships' crews from every house (of commerce), they receive their loads. They depart from Egypt for Syria, and each man's god is with him. (But) not one of them says: "We shall see Egypt again!" The carpenter who is in the shipyard carries the timber and stacks it. If he gives today the output of yesterday, woe to his limbs! The shipwright stands behind him to tell him evil things. His outworker who is in the fields, his is the toughest of all the jobs. He spends the day loaded with his tools, tied to his tool-box. When he returns home at night, he is loaded with the tool-box and the timbers, his drinking mug, and his whetstones. The scribe, he alone, records the output of all of them. Take note of it!
The Misfortunes of the Peasant
Let me also expound to you the situation of the peasant, that other tough occupation. [Comes] the inundation and soaks him. . ., he attends to his equipment. By day he cuts his farming tools; by night he twists rope. Even his midday hour he spends on farm labor. He equips himself to go to the field as if he were a warrior. The dried field lies before him; he goes out to get his team. When he has been after the herdsman for many days, he gets his team and comes back with it. He makes for it a place in the field. Comes dawn, he goes to make a start and does not find it in its place. He spends three days searching for it; he finds it in the bog. He finds no hides on them; the jackals have chewed them. He comes out, his garment in his hand, to beg for himself a team. When he reaches his field he finds [it] broken up. He spends time cultivating, and the snake is after him. It finishes off the seed as it is cast to the ground. He does not see a green blade. He does three plowings with borrowed grain. His wife has gone down to the merchants and found nothing for barter. Now the scribe lands on the shore. He surveys the harvest. Attendants are behind him with staffs, Nubians with clubs. One says (to him): "Give grain." "There is none." He is beaten savagely. He is bound, thrown in the well, submerged head down. His wife is bound in his presence. His children are in fetters. His neighbors abandon them and flee. When it's over, there's no grain. If you have any sense, be a scribe. If you have learned about the peasant, you will not be able to be one. Take note of it! . . .
The Scribe Does Not Suffer Like the Soldier
Furthermore. Look, I instruct you to make you sound; to make you hold the palette freely. To make you become one whom the king trusts; to make you gain entrance to treasury and granary. To make you receive the ship-load at the gate of the granary. To make you issue the offerings on feast days. You are dressed in fine clothes; you own horses. Your boat is on the river; you are supplied with attendants. You stride about inspecting. A mansion is built in your town. You have a powerful office, given you by the king. Male and female slaves are about you. Those who are in the fields grasp your hand, on plots that you have made. Look, I make you into a staff of life! Put the writings in your heart, and you will be protected from all kinds of toil. You will become a worthy official. Do you not recall the (fate of) the unskilled man? His name is not known. He is ever burdened [like an ass carrying] in front of the scribe who knows what he is about. Come, [let me tell] you the woes of the soldier, and how many are his superiors: the general, the troop-commander, the officer who leads, the standard-bearer, the lieutenant, the scribe, the commander of fifty, and the garrison-captain. They go in and out in the halls of the palace, saying: "Get laborers!" He is awakened at any hour. One is after him as (after) a donkey. He toils until the Aten (sun) sets in his darkness of night. He is hungry, his belly hurts; he is dead while yet alive. When he receives the grain-ration, having been released from duty, it is not good for grinding. He is called up for Syria. He may not rest. There are no clothes, no sandals. The weapons of war are assembled at the fortress of Sile. His march is uphill through mountains. He drinks water every third day; it is smelly and tastes of salt. His body is ravaged by illness. The enemy comes, surrounds him with missiles, and life recedes from him. He is told: "Quick, forward, valiant soldier! Win for yourself a good name!" He does not know what he is about. His body is weak, his legs fail him. When victory is won, the captives are handed over to his majesty, to be taken to Egypt. The foreign woman faints on the march; she hangs herself [on] the soldier's neck. His knapsack drops, another grabs it while he is burdened with the woman. His wife and children are in their village; he dies and does not reach it. If he comes out alive, he is worn out from marching. Be he at large, be he detained, the soldier suffers. If he leaps and joins the deserters, all his people are imprisoned. He dies on the edge of the desert, and there is none to perpetuate his name. He suffers in death as in life. A big sack is brought for him; he does not know his resting place. Be a scribe, and be spared from soldiering! You call and one says: "Here I am." You are safe from torments. Every man seeks to raise himself up. Take note of it!
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
I did say mainly through liberal education and political agitation; of course DuBois saw a need for vocational training as that's a staple feature of "modern" education, but he accepted it in a racially integrated context. And of course with himself at the head of it all as HNIC. Comparing Dubois' philosophy with the AE is a stretch for me, but thats my subjective opinion... Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I compare the two because as we see, the elder scribe is trying to convince his son of the superiority of a "liberal" education versus the vocation. One could say, given the times, that even the Egyptians had a talented tenth mentality. But we must also remember that later on in his life, I think Dubois actually recanted to some extent that philosophy. Remember, DuBois wrote for damn near 70 years. So we have to keep his works in context in accordance with the times it was written. Like all men and women, we grow older and revise our views.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
KWAME NKRUMAH BY YURI SMERTIN (EXCERT RE: GARVEY - DUBOIS)
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Jesus Wally your reputation as a researcher is really taking a beating on this one. Each time you try to defend your opening post – with secondary sources - it gets worse for you.
For the uninitiated, Garvey was a Black Nationalist/separatist so of course he is going to advocate the "purity" of the black race, but did that mean he was anti-light skinned blacks? Were light skinned blacks in the UNIA? Did he marry a light skinned black woman? Wally your ignorance of Garvey is amazing!
Your problem is that you're desperately trying to impute meaning – again from secondary sources – to suit your already made up mind. That's not scholarship. The irony is you never do this with DuBois who described Garvey as black and ugly; are we to then assume that Dubois was trying to construct a color heirarchy?
Wally, read the book I gave you and stop making yourself look stupid.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I see you indeed are unitiated so let me administer the rite to you whereby you will come to know the difference between a so-called revolutionary vanguard and the black petit bourgeois.
I had it from several elderly Black Americans that "Talented Tenth" is just a euphemism for the "Brown Bag Society."
So do you really understand what DuBois was actually proposing? Only the "Negroes" who were coloured as light or lighter than a brown paper bag should receive education in professional fields while the darks should only at best aspire to semi-skilled vocations and submit to be led by "octoroons," "quadroons," "mulattos," and "mustees."
Why? The lights with caucasoid features were less likely to affront white employers and co-workers. "Yellow is mellow, brown can stick around, black -- get back." This is very much the idea in parts of the Caribbean, Central and South America to this day.
Even in heavily Latino populated areas of the USA employment notices often enough unequivically require an applicant "look good." You do know what that means don't you?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy?
The Talented Tenth (excerpt) W.E.B. DuBois September 1903
quote: The Negro race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men. The problem of education, then, among Negroes must first of all deal with the Talented Tenth; it is the problem of developing the Best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the Worst, in their own and other races.
... three tasks lay before me; first to show from the past that the Talented Tenth as they have risen among American Negroes have been worthy of leadership; secondly to show how these men may be educated and developed; and thirdly to show their relation to the Negro problem...
(For the un-initiated: both DuBois' "Talented Tenth" and Nkrumah's "Convention Peoples' Party" reflected the Marxist revolutionary theory of the need for a vanguard leadership; a handful of the enlightened to lead the masses in the struggle for freedom...)
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
The first time heard about a "brown paper bag policy" was from my African American friends in College, they were referring to the supposed admissions policy at Emory U. And indeed the saying "if you are brown stick around, yellow mellow..." was/is very much a part of black American discourse, I think thats where the saying originated. In any event, Prof. Tony Martin in his book Race First showed how hypocritical the light skinned African American negro leaders were at the time when they accused Garvey of bringing a "color caste system" to America when the "leadership" at the time was already "brown". Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
This boy sits up on his dead ass making up race fantasies.
Notice this freak doesn't back any of his statements up. He's just like these loons who come and posts their deranged mythical fantasies.
But what would one expect from someone who has called AAs niggers?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
tangentiality - a mental condition in which one tends to digress from the topic under discussion, especially by word association.
Example: the following is the opening statement of this topic; I have outlined in bold the "word association" (which was merely an example to illustrate that there is no color-caste system in the African American community), which then resulted in a tangental, pointless, diversionary discussion...
quote: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
perhaps this condition is caused by the fact that some here are incapable of adding to the discussion regarding Ancient Egyptians and African Americans...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Clyde Winters wrote (in another topic);
quote:I remember when my children were young and we would go to the Field Museum in Chicago. Whites would look at the artifacts and then look at us and appear to feel sad. My wife believed that it hurt their feelings to see images of Egyptians and recognize that they looked like us instead of white like they were taught in the history books.
How classically accurate and true! I think that most African Americans in similar circumstances have observed this peculiar behavior of, mostly over 30, White folks. (Boy, If I had a nickel for every time that I have observed this behavior...) A psychologist could have a field day observing and writing on the brainwashed confronting reality and the response to it...
These poor folks, when they see African Americans like this, they see Ancient Egyptians...
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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hey guys I swear on my immediate ancestors graves that I experience something like the above at the Metro-politian Muesum,I was on a school trip and this one guy was with his daughter she was quite young about 10yrs old..she was looking at some boatmen figures n a glass display..and she just straight-out commented to her dad..they are black people,her dad then proceed to explain that they the figurines were probaberly representitive of slaves,I glance over a harsh look at this idiot and glee-fully pointed out a sculpture of a King and said in a rather loud voice...YO!! JJ this is the time when the Blackman rule the planet look at this,to which the little girl looked for an explaination from her daddy who looked at us in annoyance...I eye balled him and smiled.
Posted by Heru-Tunde (Member # 16164) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Zar in Egypt and in America
quote: ausar wrote; Zar rituals are mostly practiced in lower class Sai'idi and Baladi communities throughout Egypt. The reason why many are practiced is either to heal or caste out evil spirits.
Most of the major participants are females. Very few males lead these ceremonies,and it tends to be an outlet for women in a male dominated society.
If you are at all familiar with Voodoo or Voudum, you know what Zar is...
quote: "Zar, in the sense of possession, is usually, though not exclusively, inherited. It is also contagious and may strike at any time. Diriye Abdullahi, a native of Somalia, says that the zar is basically a dance of spirits, or a religious dance - kind of leftover from the old African deities, a variant of what we describe in the west as "voodoo". The old African deities were headed by two figures; Azuzar (the male, assoc. with Osiris) and Ausitu (the female, known in the west as Isis). Ausitu (or Aysitu in Somalia) is still celebrated and given offerings by pregnant women so that she will provide them with a safe birth. He describes it as a ritual dance which is mostly observed by women, especially older women. This corresponds to the practice of older African religions, in which older women were the priestesses. He maintains that younger women, especially unmarried women, are not generally thought to be "worthy of a visit by the spirit of Zar, who chooses domicile or residence in the person who is his choice." Traditionally, women are carriers of the Zar tradition. A Zar is a spirit. Some Ethiopians and Yemenis have their own Zar, like a guide of guardian angel. The dance ritual, Zar, like other traditional healing ceremonies, as for instance practiced by the !Kung of Southern Africa, is done to regain a sense of balance and harmony in one's life and in tandem with the community. The word Zar is thought by some to be a corruption of Jar which in the Cushitic language of the Agaw people is the word for Waaq the sky god. The Rastafarians call god Jah. And Yah is a very old Ancient Egyptian word for God. See also: The Zar: Women's Theatre in the Southern Sudan,"Women's Medicine: Zar Cult in Africa and Beyond, ed. by Ioan Lewis, Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1991
from my own experiences... As an African American, born in (Voodoo) Louisiana... One of the first things you learn as a Black youngster is that when you go to church on Sunday, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO A WOMAN, especially a middle-aged one. When this "zar spirit" hits one of these women (it usually affects several women almost simultaneously), they begin to gesticulate and shout out loud. They then, usually, make their way to the church's aisle where they begin to dance themselves into a trance like frenzy, eventually feinting or becoming rigid, where they have to be fanned and literally carried out of the auditorium. And your biggest fear is that this spirit might also hit you! ...we call this 'the Holy Ghost' in (Voodoo) Louisiana.
The only thing missing is some formalized ritual, which obviously isn't necessary.
and from EW Budge on Ancient Egyptian Voodoo
quote: It was well known in Egypt and the Sudan at a very early period that if a magician obtained some portion of a person's body, e.g., a hair, a paring of a nail, a fragment of skin, or a portion of some efflux from the body, spells could be used upon them which would have the effect of causing grievous harm to that person. --Legends of the Egyptian Gods, EW Budge, p.xxxiv
...and my mama would always make sure that clipped nails or cut hair was always flushed down the toilet!
How interesting i'm Yoruba and my mum would tell me the exact same thing, the same thing happens in Yoruba Mythology.
Posted by Clint EastWood (Member # 16969) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
But what would one expect from someone who has called AAs niggers?
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: perhaps this condition is caused by the fact that some here are incapable of adding to the discussion regarding Ancient Egyptians and African Americans...
Wally, stop blaming others for your ignorance of black history and inability to defend your opening post. Black America had a color caste system before Garvey arrived, he certainly did not "import" any such scheme.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
FROM THE KING TUT EXHIBIT IN SAN FRANCISCO...
ANY WHITE FOLK THAT IS TOTALLY BRAINWASHED (CLINICALLY INDUCED INSANITY), WHO LOOKS AT THIS ANCIENT EGYPTIAN ART, OR ANY AUTHENTIC ANCIENT EGYPTIAN ARTWORK, THEN GLANCE ASKANCE AT THE AFRICAN AMERICANS ALSO PERUSING THE EXHIBITS, WILL EXPERIENCE AN INTENSE PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFLICT... Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
another Wallism. In Wallyland all of these AE's are black. In the rest of the world they are North African caucasians.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: another Wallism. In Wallyland all of these AE's are black. In the rest of the world they are North African caucasians.
Wow! Oh, Joy! Can it get any better than this??? This is exactly my point - Clinically induced insanity!
Our resident Looney asserts that these people depicted here, are, to the rest of the world, North African caucasians (IE, White folks!)
This type of mental imbalance is what Dr. Winters, myself, and others here have described...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the Atlantic slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were alread pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are both Black peoples - the relationship is genetic. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Excerpt from Myra's topic:
quote:“Spare ribs were a very popular food, invented in Egypt,” Ikram said.
Ebony Allen then responds:
quote: I didn't know ancient Egyptians invented ribs. And it has been ingrained into African American culture. Something else for us to be proud of.
Doug M adds:
quote:Along with barbecue (grilling), roasts, stews, soups, breads and many other things.
This is not at all trivial...and what about betuke or watermelon, which my grandparents use to lovingly call "a telegram from home (Africa)"; beloved in Ancient Egypt...
Connect all of the pieces to the puzzle and we will all get the picture. Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Wally, it's hilarious watching you run from your own opening post.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: Wally, it's hilarious watching you run from your own opening post.
Wally has not run away he has remained consistent. Afro-Americans due to our senegambian heritage are basically direct descendants of the Egyptians since our ancestors belonged to Egyptian nomes before they migrated out of Egypt when the empire came under European domination.
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies.
As America expanded and took over former French and Spanish colonies Bantu speaking slaves entered the mix. To understand the shifting nature of the slave trade from the Senegambia to Congo you should check out:D.P.Mannix & M, Cowley, Black Cargoes.
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Inyotef 1
Wm. E. Welmers identified the Niger Congo home land. Welmers in "Niger-Congo Mande", Current trends in Linguistics 7 (1971), pp.113-140,explained that the Niger-Congo homeland was in the vicinity of the upper Nile valley (p.119). He believes that the Westward migration began 5000 years ago.
In support of this theory he discusses the dogs of the Niger-Congo speakers. This is the unique barkless Basenji dogs which live in the Sudan and Uganda today, but were formerly recorded on Egyptian monuments (Wlemers,p.119). According to Welmers the Basanji, is related to the Liberian Basenji breed of the Kpelle and Loma people of Liberia. Welmers believes that the Mande took these dogs with them on their migration westward. The Kpelle and Loma speak Mande languages.
He believes that the region was unoccupied when the Mande migrated westward. In support of this theory Welmers' notes that the Liberian Banji dogs ,show no cross-breeding with dogs kept by other African groups in West Africa, and point to the early introduction of this cannine population after the separation of the Mande from the other Niger-Congo speakers in the original upper Nile homeland for this population. As a result, he claims that the Mande migration occured before these groups entered the region.
Homburger made it clear that the Fula language was related to the Egyptians of the 12th Dynasty. This is interesting because we find that at this time new rulers came to power in Egypt from the South. This period is often called the Middle Kingdom.
Many of these “southerners” probably included many people who later settled West Africa. As noted earlier the marker for the spread of the Niger-Congo speakers is the basanji dog. The hieroglyphic for "dog," in fact, as evidenced on a stele from the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, derives from the basenji. In just a few strokes, the engraver captures the key characteristics: pricked ears, curled tail and graceful carriage. It is probably no coincidence that the Basanji was see as the principal dog it probably represents the coming of power of the Niger-Congo speakers in ancient Egypt.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
quote:
Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
It would be quite interesting if these nomes were formerly prominent southern nomes who gained prominence once the Inyotefs came to power.
Between 2258 2052 BC civil war broke out among the nobles of Egypt. During this period of disunity there was much suffering in the land and many of the fine cultural developments of the Old Kingdoms were discarded or rarely practiced. This period of chaos is called the "First Intermediate Period". A person who lived during this hard time named Iperwer, wrote Great and humble say: "I wish I might die". Little children cry out: "I never should have been born". Also during this time Lower Egypt was invaded by Asian people who ruled there for a long time.
During this period of decline it was the Southerners who made it possible for the raise of Egypt back into a world power. These Southerners were called "Inyotefs", they lived around a city in Upper Egypt called "Thebes". Inyotef I founded the 11th Dynasty and made Thebes his capital.Inyotef declared himself king c 2125-2112 BC.
Inyotef I opposed Ankhtify of Heracleopolitan who he defeated. It was Inyotef who consolidated power in the south. Inyotef II (Wahankh) also fought the Heracleopolitans. He loved dogs especially the basenji.
Egyptian Basenji Dog Hieroglyph
I believe that some of the southern nomes led by the Inyotefs were composed of people who later migrated to West Africa after the Romans came to power. The Thebians were closely united with the Nubians.
Inyotef I was the father Mentuhotep I. Several of the wives of Mentuhotep II were Nubians. Under Mentuhotep, the delta chiefs were defeated and Egypt was united again into one country.
Mentuhotep
Under the Amenemhet I, of the Xllth dynasty the capital was moved form Thebes to Lisht near Memphis. This dynasty and those thereafter are called the Middle Kingdom.
MIDDLE KINGDOM
It took strong leadership for the Egyptians to re establish the greatness of Egypt and the establishment of safe and secure borders.
The rulers during the Middle Kingdom were mostly men from the military. They frequently made raids into foreign lands in search of booty. And for the first time in Egyptian history a permanent army was founded to protect Egypt and keep it strong.
Amon became the major God of the Egyptians during the Middle Period. Amon was recognized at this time as the God of all Gods. This Amon was also called Amma by the Proto Saharans.
It is interesting to note that the Mande and other West African people like the Dogon and Dravidians worshipped the god Amma.
The fact that Mande, Wolof and Fula are related to Egyptian is probably due to the fact that when the Inyotefs took over Egypt the ancestors of these groups live in southern Egypt/Upper Kush. This would explain 1) the relationship between the Fula and Egyptian language of the 12th Dynasty 2) the introduction of the worship of Aman to the Egyptians a god worshipped by many Niger-Congo speakers, 3) the presence of Egyptian gods for selected nomes bearing West African ethnonyms and 4)the love of the basenji dog by the 12th Dynasty Egyptians.
Egypt was indeed a Pan-African civilization
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Egypt a Pan-African Civilization
Over the years Diop and other researchers have identified linguistic evidence that ancient Egyptian and Black African languages are related. This suggest that speakers of these languages formerly lived together.
It has been pointed out that the ancestors of the Egyptians originally lived in the Sahara.
There are similarities between Egyptian and Saharan motifs (Farid,1985). It was in the Sahara that we find the first evidence of agriculture, animal domestication and weaving (Farid , 1985, p.82). This highland region is the Kemites "Mountain of the Moons " region, the area from which the civilization and goods of Kem, originated.
The rock art of the Saharan Highlands support the Egyptian traditions that in ancient times they lived in the Mountains of the Moon. The Predynastic Egyptian mobiliar art and the Saharan rock art share many common themes including, characteristic boats (Farid 1985,p. 82), men with feathers on their head (Petrie ,1921,pl. xvlll,fig.74; Raphael, 1947, pl.xxiv, fig.10; Vandier , 1952, p.285, fig. 192), false tail hanging from the waist (Vandier, 1952, p.353; Farid, 1985,p.83; Winkler 1938,I, pl.xxlll) and the phallic sheath (Vandier, 1952, p.353; Winkler , 1938,I , pl.xvlll,xx, xxlll).
Due to the appearance of aridity in the Mountains of the Moon the Proto-Saharans migrated first into Nubia and thence into Kem. The Proto-Saharan origin of the Kemites explain the fact that the Kushites were known for maintaining the most ancient traditions of the Kemites as proven when the XXVth Dynasty or Kushite Dynasty ruled ancient Egypt. Farid (1985, p.85) wrote that "To conclude, it seems that among Predynastic foreign relations, the [Proto-]Saharians were the first to have significant contact with the Nile Valley, and even formed a part of the Predynastic population" (emphasis author).
This means that the Nomes probably represent different "states" incorporated into ancient Egypt. It is quite possible that each nome represented a different ethnic group.
If this is true the Egyptian language was probably a lingua franca used to provide a means of communication for the diverse people who lived in ancient Egypt. This would explain why Egyptian was used to write Kushite text until Egyptians migrated into Meroitic lands once Egypt was under the control of the Romans.
Alain Anselin La Question Peule, makes it clear that the Fula originated in Egypt. He supports this theory with the obvious similarity between the words for cattle and milk shared by the Egyptians, Fula and Dravidians (Tamil). He believes that by the 12 Dynasty of Egypt Fula were settled in Egypt.
The Egyptians had many gods. They had these gods because as new ethnicities formed nomes in Egypt they brought their gods with them.
A good example of this amalgamation of various African ethnicities into Egypt is the followers of the god Ra. Some of the first rulers of Egypt saw Ra as the main god.
Later the Egyptians worshipped Aman/Amun which was a Saharan god. ). By the 2nd millennium BC Kushites at kerma were already worshippers of Amon/Amun and they used a distinctive black-and-red ware (Bonnet 1986; Winters 1985b,1991). Amon, later became a major god of the Egyptians during the 18th Dynasty.
A majority of Fula may have remained nomadic, but settled Fula probaly form a major ethnic group in an Egyptian Nome, as did Wolof and Mande speaking people. This is the best way to explain the close genetic linguistic relationship between these groups.
Granted, some Wolof, Mande and Fula made their way to West Africa, but many speakers of these languages remained in Egypt and made up one of the various nomes associated with Egypt.
DNA can tells us little about this period unless they recover DNA from the people living at that time. DNA from living individuals only tell us abou the contemporary group. Not the original people.
Egypt was a cosmopolitan area inhabited by diverse people who move up the Nile from the south to found the First Dynasty. Since the people of Dynastic Egypt originated in the Sahara and moved from south to north . The archaeological evidence makes it clear that no one originated in Egypt.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
[quote]
Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
It would be quite interesting if these nomes were formerly prominent southern nomes who gained prominence once the Inyotefs came to power.
The appearence of these ethnonyms in Egyptian suggest that African tribes now living in West Africans formerly lived in ancient Egypt in the nomes that made up this great empire.
.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: Wally, it's hilarious watching you run from your own opening post.
Wally has not run away he has remained consistent. Afro-Americans due to our senegambian heritage are basically direct descendants of the Egyptians since our ancestors belonged to Egyptian nomes before they migrated out of Egypt when the empire came under European domination.
.
I was referring to his rubbish about Garvey trying to introduce a color caste system to black America.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
We have to be careful about Wally's connections between Egyptian names that are similar to other African names because he never connects meaning. For instance, the word Akan may not mean God for the Akan people.
Dr. Nana Banchie Darkwah argues that the Akan are one of the major tribes of the Nile Valley that became the Avrim (Afrim - Hebrew) people of the Bible. I don't remember if he gives the meaning of the name Akan in his book The Africans Who Wrote the Bible but in the Bible Akan is one of the three sons of Ezer (the other two being Bilhan and Zavaan).
Biblically, the word Akan means "warped" or "keen of vision." Now if the Akan people agree that the name Akan means "keen of vision" then we have a match. You must always match meaning with meaning.
This rule is loose a bit when examining place names. But these are not place names, but names of actual people that have meaning. So find out what the name Akan means to the Akan and then compare that to the interpreted meanings in Egyptian to see if there are in fact similarities for which we can say they are cognate.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies.
As America expanded and took over former French and Spanish colonies Bantu speaking slaves entered the mix.
On what do you base this on Clyde? Why would so called "west" Africans or so called "bantus" be the exclusive people used as slaves?
Clyde do you believe that slavery was based on a phenotype like your white owners have brainwashed you to believe?
We're waiting for your answers Clyde. Don't run away, if you do, it will confirm everyone's suspicions that you are a fake non-degreed scholar.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote:
Wally why would they bypass so called north Africa for slaves for so called west Africa?
Why not just pick them up from so called "north" Africa?
We're waiting Wally.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
No Argyle, They ae in the computer lab at a mental institution. Just as looney as they can be. If you looked in one of their ears you would see out the other. The lighs are on but nobody is home.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The boggled idiot sitting in the back, with the resident idiot who just posted, writes...
quote:Wally, it's hilarious watching you run from your own opening post. --- I was referring to his rubbish about Garvey trying to introduce a color caste system to black America.
...since this confusion is taking place entirely in his own mind;
a) He thinks the topic is about Marcus Garvey
b) I never asserted that Garvey tried to introduce a color caste system in America, I merely stated that he brought his Jamaican attitudes with him, a common human trait when one moves from his own social milieu to a foreign place, which he soon found inapropiate in the African American community.
The boggled idiot probably still doesn't get it...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr (updated)
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god (The Sahidic Coptic word for 'to sing; song' is Hos. Note: There are also towns in Ethiopia & Angola named 'Hosa'.
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
Fulani The word for Fulani in Wolof is Pël, from this the French derived Peul Paal - a Kushite god; a form of Ra
Twi (an Akan linguistic group) Twi - the name of a god
Oromo Oromo is derived from 'orma' - person to 'oromo' - people in the Oromo language Orma ; Oromo - the name of a god
Edo Edo - name of a god; also a city in Keme
The Bini, the original people and founders of the Benin empire (aka, Edo empire) Binni - a phallic god ...
With the possible exception of the Tutsi and the Oromo, African Americans are genetically descendants of all these ethnic groups...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies.
As America expanded and took over former French and Spanish colonies Bantu speaking slaves entered the mix.
On what do you base this on Clyde? Why would so called "west" Africans or so called "bantus" be the exclusive people used as slaves?
Clyde do you believe that slavery was based on a phenotype like your white owners have brainwashed you to believe?
We're waiting for your answers Clyde. Don't run away, if you do, it will confirm everyone's suspicions that you are a fake non-degreed scholar.
You know nothing about slavery nor can you read. If you could read you would remember that I said the location of slaves changed over time.
The first slaves came from Northwest Africa, then the Guinea coast, and finally the Gold Coast and Angola. Stupid, Bantu lived in Angola --not the Senegambia--so they would have been the last tribal group to become slaves.
What I am trying to explain to you is that Europeans took slaves from different parts of Africa at different times, As a result, most slaves in the U.S., came from the Senegambia the major area for slaves sold in the U.S., prior to 1800.
After 1800, many slaves sold in Africa were Yoruba or Bantu speakers. American slave traders had "stopped" bringing in slaves at this time directly from Africa, and slaves of Senegambian origin were redistributed in the U.S. through the interstate slaves trade. Most Bantu speakers became "American "slaves after the U.S., got land from the French and Spanish.
Ignorant ass study history.
.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
A good book I recommend on this topic is Africanisms in American Culture. The slaves came from all places to the states in various numbers with the bulk coming from West Africa. South Carolina alone took 25% of its slaves from the Mande people. They weren't exclusive to Senegambia as you did have Bantus in small numbers during this period.
However, the Bantu speaking tribes were almost exclusively sought towards the time of Independence in the late 1700's. Places like South Carolina wanted people from Angola exclusively. But after a while the Angolians proved to be too rebellious and they vouched for Yoruba people because they allegedly were more docile.
Read Joseph Halloway's essay The Origin of African American Culture starting on pg 18 of the second edition.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: A good book I recommend on this topic is Africanisms in American Culture. The slaves came from all places to the states in various numbers with the bulk coming from West Africa. South Carolina alone took 25% of its slaves from the Mande people. They weren't exclusive to Senegambia as you did have Bantus in small numbers during this period.
However, the Bantu speaking tribes were almost exclusively sought towards the time of Independence in the late 1700's. Places like South Carolina wanted people from Angola exclusively. But after a while the Angolians proved to be too rebellious and they vouched for Yoruba people because they allegedly were more docile.
Read Joseph Halloway's essay The Origin of African American Culture starting on pg 18 of the second edition.
It is interesting that the Yoruba were considered docile. In Brazil Yoruba Muslims led one of the most violent jihad/slave revolts in history. They have left many Arabic documents which the authorities collected once they put down the revolt.
.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: I never asserted that Garvey tried to introduce a color caste system in America, I merely stated that he brought his Jamaican attitudes with him,
And prey tell what is this "Jamaican attitude" Wally? Seriously, you're attempted back peddling is only making you look like a coward now Wally. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: A good book I recommend on this topic is Africanisms in American Culture...
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: It is interesting that the Yoruba were considered docile. In Brazil Yoruba Muslims led one of the most violent jihad/slave revolts in history. They have left many Arabic documents which the authorities collected once they put down the revolt.
.
I agree. My Yoruba forebears docile??? Well, their "docility" made them a dominant cultural influence in Brazil, in Cuba, ...
Now, if the European slave buyers had wished to use a more appropriate(accurate) adjective to describe my Yoruba ancestors, the word would be "LOUD".
I have this little personal thought that I share with my own self; When I'm at a social affair - a party - (African Americans all) ; when the conversations gets louder, and the music is turned up, causing the conversation to get even louder; I smile to myself and say to myself - "The Yoruba is coming out of us and taking over..."
--and docile? I don't think so...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: The first slaves came from Northwest Africa,
1. When you say "Northwest" Africa what modern day nations do you mean as "Northwest" Africa?
2. How do you know the first slaves came from "Northwest" Africa?
If you are truly a scholar Clyde you won't run from giving a short answer to these two simple questions.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Asar Imhotep,
Do you believe that slaves came from other parts of Africa other than so called "west" Africa?
Also define "west" Africa. You don't have to name them all just name four countries that define its the boundary of "west" Africa.
For example one country can define "west" Africa's northern most boundary, the another its southern most, another its eastern most boundary, and the last its western most boundary.
Don't run Asar Imhotep.
We are all waiting for your reply.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde you also forgot to answer the question below. I'm sure you didn't purposely avoid answering so I'll ask it again.
Clyde do you believe that slavery was based on a phenotype?
It's a simple yes or no question, Clyde.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: What I am trying to explain to you is that Europeans took slaves from different parts of Africa at different times, As a result, most slaves in the U.S., came from the Senegambia the major area for slaves sold in the U.S., prior to 1800.
How does that result in most people being taken from the Senegambia region? Your above posting is a very contradictory statement.
Would you please elaborate with evidence that
1. Most slaves in the new world were taken from the Senegambia region.
and also
2. Name the different parts of Africa that slaves were taken from. Would Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, Sudan, Chad, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Mauritania have had people taken as slaves?
Or Clyde do you believe those people were not negro enough to be taken as slaves?
Its a simple yes or no question Clyde.
Finally, Clyde its very noticeable that you almost never back anything you say with facts or evidence. Which basically renders your postings as trollish opinions.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word (from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!) Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: The first slaves came from Northwest Africa,
1. When you say "Northwest" Africa what modern day nations do you mean as "Northwest" Africa?
2. How do you know the first slaves came from "Northwest" Africa?
If you are truly a scholar Clyde you won't run from giving a short answer to these two simple questions.
You are a wiseCracker. You make comments without reading the text. Let me remind you we are talking about slaves to the U.S.A., the ancestors of African Americans.
This modern day nation was Mauritania.
History teaches us that in 1444 Portugal took the first slaves in the Atlantic Slave Trade from Northern Mauritania and sold them in Portugal.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde you also forgot to answer the question below. I'm sure you didn't purposely avoid answering so I'll ask it again.
Clyde do you believe that slavery was based on a phenotype?
It's a simple yes or no question, Clyde.
No.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: What I am trying to explain to you is that Europeans took slaves from different parts of Africa at different times, As a result, most slaves in the U.S., came from the Senegambia the major area for slaves sold in the U.S., prior to 1800.
How does that result in most people being taken from the Senegambia region? Your above posting is a very contradictory statement.
Would you please elaborate with evidence that
1. Most slaves in the new world were taken from the Senegambia region.
and also
2. Name the different parts of Africa that slaves were taken from. Would Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, Sudan, Chad, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Mauritania have had people taken as slaves?
Or Clyde do you believe those people were not negro enough to be taken as slaves?
Its a simple yes or no question Clyde.
Finally, Clyde its very noticeable that you almost never back anything you say with facts or evidence. Which basically renders your postings as trollish opinions.
You never read wiseCracker. I cited as my source the book: Black Cargoes.
This thread is about Afro-Americans.Not slaves taken to the New World generally.
I am responding to this thread, troll. If you would read before you shoot from the lip, you would know we are talking solely about the USA, not the entire New World.
.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: This modern day nation was Mauritania.
So is that the only modern day nation in what you have yet to define as "northwest" Africa, that people were enslaved from?
Were there people taken from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia as well Clyde?
If you believe not Clyde, why? Are you insinuating some kind of difference in the peoples Clyde?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: This thread is about Afro-Americans. Not slaves taken to the New World generally.
So Clyde, why would the slaves in America only come from what you call "west" Africa? Your opinion really doesn't make any sense.
If you look at a map Clyde you will notice that "west" Africa is further from the U.S. than countries like Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia. Again Clyde what you are saying doesn't make sense from a business standpoint, especially during hurricane season.
Also it would be useful if you would define what modern day countries compile so called "west" Africa, Clyde.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word...(continued) (from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
(...FOR THOSE WHO DOUBT...)
OK ; OKE Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word...(continued) (from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
DJAM (JAM) Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!)
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities ...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: This modern day nation was Mauritania.
So is that the only modern day nation in what you have yet to define as "northwest" Africa, that people were enslaved from?
Were there people taken from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia as well Clyde?
If you believe not Clyde, why? Are you insinuating some kind of difference in the peoples Clyde?
What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies.
As America expanded and took over former French and Spanish colonies Bantu speaking slaves entered the mix.
You know nothing about slavery nor can you read. If you could read you would remember that I said the location of slaves changed over time.
The first slaves came from Northwest Africa, then the Guinea coast, and finally the Gold Coast and Angola. Stupid, Bantu lived in Angola --not the Senegambia--so they would have been the last tribal group to become slaves.
What I am trying to explain to you is that Europeans took slaves from different parts of Africa at different times, As a result, most slaves in the U.S., came from the Senegambia the major area for slaves sold in the U.S., prior to 1800.
After 1800, many slaves sold in Africa were Yoruba or Bantu speakers. American slave traders had "stopped" bringing in slaves at this time directly from Africa, and slaves of Senegambian origin were redistributed in the U.S. through the interstate slaves trade. Most Bantu speakers became "American "slaves after the U.S., got land from the French and Spanish.
If you want to discuss slaves from other parts of Africa start a new thread.
.
Ignorant ass study history.
.
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Clyde and the others here would have you believe that the great Egyptian empire turned into a race of slaves.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Clyde and the others here would have you believe that the great Egyptian empire turned into a race of slaves.
You are so incredibly stupid, not merely ill-informed, just stupid.
Ancient Egypt - the Ancient Egyptians - has been colonized (enslaved; dominated) by foreigners from outside of Africa (IE Asia) beginning with the decline of Pharaonic Civilization in the time of Psamanticus II (c595bce), and this colonization and settlement has grown exponentially since that time, and continues even to this day...
a) the native language has been banned and suppressed and replaced with Arabic by the Arabs, something which the Persians, Romans, Greeks, were never so cruel to do.
b) ironically, much like the modern Israelis who place settlements to encroach on Arab lands, neo-colonial Egypt has seen a constant infiltration of Asians, euphemistically called 'middle easterners', into the country...
Omar Sharif, the great Egyptian actor, is Lebanese! So too, are the bulk of the Egyptian elite who are of Asiatic Arab descent, and Turks, Circassians, ...
Many of the native Egyptians have, over the millenniums of foreign domination, migrated from the country, leaving behind the ones too poor to escape - the Fellaheen (the peasant class)...
Race and color are very sensitive subjects in modern Egypt, and there is no reason to wonder why that is the case. The Blacks, creators of 'the great Egyptian empire', have become subservient (enslaved) in their own country!
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
More famous Wallyisms. Another post filled with black political propaganda without a single fact included.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Wallyisms trump Hammer bullshits, any day!
Actually, it's you who always offers posts filled with nothing but absolute white political propaganda without a single fact included.
As much as I disagree with Wally about certain aspects of this topic he does offer proper references, quotes, and citations from authorities in the field.
You on the otherhand never once have given a quote, citation, or reference like an educated person must.
It's you who are the political racial propagandist. What white AE board do you frequent to denounce their skewed views?
Just answer that and don't get your hopes up because I'm not about to give you the attention of opening a dialogue with you.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!(aka "I'd sure like to hit that."))
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right ...OK?
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
(from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Takruri, I do not argue facts on this board. It would be the same as trying to argue with a flock of magpies. What I do is to ask, over and over and over, for the use of correct historical method. Since nobody here has a clue what it is all I get is cut and paste. Not only do we cut and paste but we pick only those things that back up a position we want to promote.
You guys are so deep into dogma you cannot see the end of your arm. Your brain is so garbbled you are the one who wanted to take an african army and claim all the land as far as Iraq. As if a group of people mired in poverty, corruption and discord with average IQ's seldom above 75 could put together anything that would threaten anyone.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!)
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right OK?
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
(from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
(from) Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully (to) wolof: dega - to understand (to) African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?") Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
DEG - (IN MTAU NTR, THIS 'T' SOUNDS LIKE 'D')
NOTE THAT IN THE ABOVE LISTINGS OF GLYPHS, THERE IS THE WORD 'DEGA'(#5) WHICH CORRESPONDS WITH THE WOLOF WORD, WHICH MEANS TO UNDERSTAND IN WOLOF... Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Takruri, I do not argue facts on this board
Praise be to god! This is the FIRST sensible thing you've said on ES! Yes, red neck, you don't argue facts on this board, just white racist fantasies.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammer:
Your brain is so garbbled you are the one who wanted to take an african army and claim all the land as far as Iraq.
Ironically, this actually describes the U.S. more appropriately than those you point figers at.
quote: As if a group of people mired in poverty, corruption and discord with average IQ's seldom above 75 could put together anything that would threaten anyone.
Such a group of people obviously have YOU threatened. You are here "arguing" with them, after all, aren't you.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...an aside... Names of contributers here with Mtau Ntr names and their meanings;
Djehuti - (joo.uh.tee) (thoo.uh.tee); the ancestral creator of the Mtau Ntr
(al)Takruri - tkr.i (tahk.oor.ree); "I am mighty."
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: We have to be careful about Wally's connections between Egyptian names that are similar to other African names because he never connects meaning. For instance, the word Akan may not mean God for the Akan people.
Dr. Nana Banchie Darkwah argues that the Akan are one of the major tribes of the Nile Valley that became the Avrim (Afrim - Hebrew) people of the Bible. I don't remember if he gives the meaning of the name Akan in his book The Africans Who Wrote the Bible but in the Bible Akan is one of the three sons of Ezer (the other two being Bilhan and Zavaan).
Biblically, the word Akan means "warped" or "keen of vision." Now if the Akan people agree that the name Akan means "keen of vision" then we have a match. You must always match meaning with meaning.
This rule is loose a bit when examining place names. But these are not place names, but names of actual people that have meaning. So find out what the name Akan means to the Akan and then compare that to the interpreted meanings in Egyptian to see if there are in fact similarities for which we can say they are cognate.
I doubt whether Akan meant "keen of vision" for the original people. These names Bilhan, Ezer (Asir) and Akan or Achan are the names of ancient Afro-Arabian clan chiefs whose names almost always corresponded to some totem and planet or star. Zibeon for example "a hyena", Shobal means "young lion", Dishon "a mountain goat" or antelope, Aiah or Ajah "a hawk", Aran a wild goat, Hamdan or Hamran meaning 'male donkey", Cheran or Qaran meaning "deer", etc. They named the Harrat region of southwest Arabia and are called "Horites" or Hori. Originally all semitic or Nilotic clan chiefs were almost always called after some totem. Being master astronomers these names in turn corresponded to some element in the cosmos, a star or planet or constellation, the sun or phase of the moon.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
This map is missing a place as some were taken from Kenya as well.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: This map is missing a place as some were taken from Kenya as well.
African slaves were a commodity, just like cocoa, ivory, gold, bauxite, which Africans sold to the Europeans, Arabs...
Like all commodities, it was necessary and efficient to transport these commodities from the interior to coastal ports for exportation. The Europeans, for example, did not just saunter in and cherry pick these commodities at will nor were they able to do so, if so inclined...
The East African ports in Mozambique were a source of African slaves not only from Kenya but from the entire east and central African territory...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!)
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right OK?
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend (from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
(from) Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully (to) wolof: dega - to understand (to) African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?")
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia (to) Ancient Egypt: okre (jkr) (to) Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀ (to) African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana) Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word...a journey north...
Ancient Egypt: Ouenoufre - happy being (ouen - being, existence + noufre - good, perfect, happy)
Greek: Onnophris - "always happy"
Italian: Onofrio - "always happy" (> D'Onofrio) Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
African Americans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. The groups who are related to AE are Somalis, Oromos, Afars, Nilotic groups including those from Kenya, mainly the Maasai and those subgroups of the maasai, Tutsi, REAL fulani stocks. I hate when other black groups claim history that they have nothing to do with. Our ancestors were farmers and people who lived in the forest doing whatever. We don't derive from cattle herders.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: African Americans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. The groups who are related to AE are Somalis, Oromos, Afars, Nilotic groups including those from Kenya, mainly the Maasai and those subgroups of the maasai, Tutsi, REAL fulani stocks. I hate when other black groups claim history that they have nothing to do with. Our ancestors were farmers and people who lived in the forest doing whatever. We don't derive from cattle herders.
Now that you have submitted your vacuous account of African American history, where are your facts, your evidence?
...and I seriously doubt, in my opinion, that you're African American; "our ancestors were farmers..."
...I seriously have no doubt, based on the evidence of your posting(s), that you are an idiot...
quote: The stupidity of fools (idiots, etc...) is most evident in their speech, which conceals hatred and slanders others , continuously spouts stupidity and folly, reveals the foolishness of their heart, provokes only anger and fighting, and does not speak proverbs appropriately. Thus, excellent speech is unfitting for such individuals, and so the only recourse is simply for them to quit talking. - Proverbs
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: African Americans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. The groups who are related to AE are Somalis, Oromos, Afars, Nilotic groups including those from Kenya, mainly the Maasai and those subgroups of the maasai, Tutsi, REAL fulani stocks. I hate when other black groups claim history that they have nothing to do with. Our ancestors were farmers and people who lived in the forest doing whatever. We don't derive from cattle herders.
Now that you have submitted your vacuous account of African American history, where are your facts, your evidence?
...and I seriously doubt, in my opinion, that you're African American; "our ancestors were farmers..."
...I seriously have no doubt, based on the evidence of your posting(s), that you are an idiot...
quote: The stupidity of fools (idiots, etc...) is most evident in their speech, which conceals hatred and slanders others , continuously spouts stupidity and folly, reveals the foolishness of their heart, provokes only anger and fighting, and does not speak proverbs appropriately. Thus, excellent speech is unfitting for such individuals, and so the only recourse is simply for them to quit talking. - Proverbs
Not just farmers but agro-pastoral people. That is they also herded cattle.
.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Sterling Stuckey and other American historians have done much research and writing on the relationship of Fulani to African Americans. They were apparently one of the more prominent African groups brought to America as slaves that also came to be used as cattle men and house slaves.
But the Hausa ancestors of African Americans were probably just as related, or more related to ancient Egyptians, than Fulani were. The latter were actually a taller people living in oases west of Egypt. The former built walled towns typical of the Lower (northern) Nile and claim to have been derived from the region and further east.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: African Americans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. The groups who are related to AE are Somalis, Oromos, Afars, Nilotic groups including those from Kenya, mainly the Maasai and those subgroups of the maasai, Tutsi, REAL fulani stocks. I hate when other black groups claim history that they have nothing to do with. Our ancestors were farmers and people who lived in the forest doing whatever. We don't derive from cattle herders.
Now that you have submitted your vacuous account of African American history, where are your facts, your evidence?
...and I seriously doubt, in my opinion, that you're African American; "our ancestors were farmers..."
...I seriously have no doubt, based on the evidence of your posting(s), that you are an idiot...
quote: The stupidity of fools (idiots, etc...) is most evident in their speech, which conceals hatred and slanders others , continuously spouts stupidity and folly, reveals the foolishness of their heart, provokes only anger and fighting, and does not speak proverbs appropriately. Thus, excellent speech is unfitting for such individuals, and so the only recourse is simply for them to quit talking. - Proverbs
What evidence you have that African Americans are related to Ancient Egyptians? The evidence is plainly obvious. African Americans come from the coastal regions of Africa, Central Africa, and the Angola region and those people aren't related to the Egyptians. The only groups that come close to egyptian kinship are Cushitic groups, Nilotic groups, and some Saharan stocks. Why do you black people think everything black includes West Africans?
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: African Americans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. The groups who are related to AE are Somalis, Oromos, Afars, Nilotic groups including those from Kenya, mainly the Maasai and those subgroups of the maasai, Tutsi, REAL fulani stocks. I hate when other black groups claim history that they have nothing to do with. Our ancestors were farmers and people who lived in the forest doing whatever. We don't derive from cattle herders.
Now that you have submitted your vacuous account of African American history, where are your facts, your evidence?
...and I seriously doubt, in my opinion, that you're African American; "our ancestors were farmers..."
...I seriously have no doubt, based on the evidence of your posting(s), that you are an idiot...
quote: The stupidity of fools (idiots, etc...) is most evident in their speech, which conceals hatred and slanders others , continuously spouts stupidity and folly, reveals the foolishness of their heart, provokes only anger and fighting, and does not speak proverbs appropriately. Thus, excellent speech is unfitting for such individuals, and so the only recourse is simply for them to quit talking. - Proverbs
Not just farmers but agro-pastoral people. That is they also herded cattle.
.
The overwhelming majority of African Americans descend from farmers and groups that lived in forests doing whatever. The agro-pastoral people are minute.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
posted 03 November, 2009; at the start of this topic...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! )
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were alread pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
...this relationship is genetic. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The White slave-holder bought Africans based upon the slave-holder's particular needs:
The Ashanti/Fante were noted as skilled artisans, working in stone, bronze, and iron.
The Fulani were noted as expert cattlemen; (It has been suggested that the expertise of Africans with cattle gave rise to the expression "cowboy" as opposed to those who were "houseboys"...)
Senegambians (Wolof, etc.,) were noted for their highly developed skills in cabinet-making, iron crafts, blacksmithing, tailoring...
Senegambians were also noted for their skills in rice cultivation, etc...
The Mande were noted rowers, transporters of crops and supplies, net-casting...
...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Fula and Fulani are the same people. They have different names depending on the country they're from. Mandinka, Mende, Malinke, and Mande are the same people and my tribe is MENDE straight from SAHARAN stock. MENDE RULES!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Fula and Fulani are the same people. They have different names depending on the country they're from. Mandinka, Mende, Malinke, and Mande are the same people and my tribe is MENDE straight from SAHARAN stock. MENDE RULES!
Mandingo, Mande and Malinke people are found throughout the Sudan, West Africa and the Senegambia today and are one of the populations brought over in large numbers tothe Americas from the Guinea coast. They have lived in the this West African region for centuries. Most west Africans descend from populations which have either moved southward from Sahara or else westward from the Nile region over a period of many centuries.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
FROM KEME...
...TO YORUBA...
...TO AFRICAN AMERICAN Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Another branch of Lineal descent
African American
^
Pël (Paal; Fulani - West Africa)
^
Paal (Kemet; c12th dynasty) (Kmt:Kame, Keme, Kimi, ...)
Mtau Ntr Bu nafret su em bu bon, "a good place has become an evil place" Wolof Bu rafet mel ni bu bon, "a good place has become an evil place" (good place = "bu nafret/bu rafet (evil place = "bu bon/bu bon
Mtau Ntr mer on ef, "he loved" Wolof maar on ef, "he loved passionately"
Mtau Ntr mer on es, "she loved" Wolof maar on es, "she loved passionately"
Mtau Ntr mer on sen, "they loved" Wolof maar on sen, "they loved passionately"
Mtau Ntr and Wolof Demonstratives (this, that, these, those - P > B)
Mtau Ntr/Wolof
pw/bw pwy/bwy pane/bane pafe/bafe pafa/bafa pa/ba ipatw/batw ipatne/batne ipatafe/batafe ...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice people how once again Wally, bettyboo (ie the white boy with pink blisters on his ding-a-ling), and the others offer absolutely no facts, evidence, or proof to back up their wild fantasies.
This place is just another race loon forum. Folks you really need to do your own research because these internet forums are just places where people live out their racial hierarchy fantasies. You will learn little if anything on forums such as this.
Especially from beatdown losers like Wally and Bettyboo aka "pink blisters".
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...su nufre...
The genetic relationship between two languages is determined by examining the basic vocabulary of the two languages. When there is systematic correspondence between the two languages in a large number of basic words, such as body parts, lower numerals and natural objects, the existence of a genetic relationship cannot be in doubt.
Mtau Ntr - Wolof
aam - aam : seize (take this)
aar - aar : paradise (divine protection)
atef - ate : a crown of Osiris, judge of the soul (to judge)
ba - bei : the ram-god (goat)
bai - bai : a priestly title (father)
ben ben - ben ben : overflow, flood
bon - bon : evil
bu - bu : place
bu bon - bu bon : evil place
bu nafret - bu rafet : good place
da - da : child
deresht - deret : blood
diou - diou rom : five
djit - djit : magistrate (guide, leader)
fero - fari : king
iaay - yaay : old woman (mother)
itef - itef : father
kat - Cott li : vagina ('Katt bi' is a vulgar term for having sex)
kau - kaou : elevated, above (heaven)
kaw - kaw : height
kef - kef : to seize, grasp
kem -khem : black (burnt, burnt black)
kemat - kematef : end of a period, completion, limit
khekh - khekh : to fight, to wage war, war
kwk - kwk : darkness
maat - mat : justice
maga - mag : veteran, old person
mer - maar : love (passionate love)
nag - nag : bull (cattle)
nak - nak : ox, bull (cow)
NDam - NDam : throne
neb - ndab : basket (calabash)
nem - temb : float
nen - nen : place where nothing is done (nothingness)
nit - nit : citizen
onef - onef : he (past tense)
ones - ones : she (past tense)
onsen - onsen : they (past tense)
pe - pey : capital, heaven (King's capital)
per - per : house (the wall surrounding the house)
pur - bur : king
rem - erem : to weap, tears (compassion)
ro - ro : mouth (to swallow)
sa - sa : wise, educated, to teach
seked - seggay : a slope
sen - sen : brother
sent - san : sister
set - set : woman (wife)
shopi - sopi : transform
sity - seety : to prove
ta - ta : earth, land (inundated earth)
ta tenen - ten : first lands (clay of first humans)
tefnit - tefnit : to spit
top - bop : top of head
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
lingua franca: a common language used as a medium of communication between peoples of diverse speech.
Mtau Ntr was the lingua franca of Kemet; its main intent being to cement political unification of the many African ethnicities comprising the nation...
Kiswahili is the lingua franca of East Africa; its main intent being to facilitate trade and commerce in the region...
Wolof is also a lingua franca...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Genetic Relationship between Yoruba and Mtau Ntr:
Mtau Ntr - Yoruba
ab - abo : female
ak - ako : male
ala - ala : boundary
alu - ole : child (embryo)
amon - amon : to hide, concealed
apoti - apoti : pot; cup
atef - ade : crown, plumes
au.nu - o.ni : crocodile
baba - baba : father
bahtan - ibatan : compatriot
bu - bu : place
buhuru - buburu : evil
dua - adua : prayer
enen - enen : no
fahaka - fahaka : silvery fish
hen - hen : yes; nod head
hor - hor : elevated
keh - aake : axe
ko - ko : reject
kot - ko : build
miri - miri : water, dazzle (of water)
mu - mu : water (drink)
nù - nù : to wipe, erase
naprit - naprit : seed
ni - mi : I
noki.t - inoki : fabulous beast
Oba -Oba : to direct, captain, authority (king)
omau - omo : child
Oni - Oni : Osiri's ethnicity , (king)
oufi - kufi : crown
ran - ran : name
Re - Ire : That which is good, goodness; (ba.re.ka) , blessing
ririt - riri : dirty (like a hippo), dirty
Salug - Saluga : god of wealth
Zaddu - Sadu : abode of the dead
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...NOTES...
quote:Many have argued that, even if the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans, modern African Americans, who lay claim to Egyptian civilization, are not akin to them because their ancestors were West Africans. This reflects a lack of knowledge about African history. Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migratory trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore, modern African Americans do indeed have a direct link to the Ancient Egyptian people.
--By Yeye Akilimali Funua Olade
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
ANCIENT HIGHWAYS FROM THE NILE VALLEY TO WEST AFRICA; < 3000 BCE
Kemet was connected with the lands to the south by three main routes:
1. Darb el-Arbeen
The Forty Days’ Road links Asyut in the Nile Valley to El Fasher in the Dar-Fur Province of Sudan, a journey of 1,082 miles (1,721 km). It was the shortest and safest distance to travel into western Africa. The route was strung along several green and lush oases such as El Kharga. Dozens of towns, forts, and way stations spread over the depression floor.
From El Fasher, another route led west through Dar-Fur, toward Lake Chad, ending in the area of Kano (northern Nigeria), at the upper reaches of the Niger River Basin.
2. Sunt (Elephantine) Road
It began at Sunt (Aswan), and went to El Fasher in Dar-Fur, by way of the oases of Selima and Bir Natrum. Sunt (Elephantine) Road also branched off to Semna West, where the caravans and expeditions transferred to ships in order to continue the journey to beyond the trading post established at Kerma, above the Third Cataract. In the same way, protective escorts and merchandise bound for Kemet from the south disembarked at Semna, where the fortress of Semna South was built (during the Middle Kingdom) to protect the travelers.
During the time of the New Kingdom (1550-1070 BCE), this highway was in continuous use all the way throughout the Roman Era, as many inscriptions on the Rock of Offerings at Sunt(Elephantine) testify.
3. Nile Valley to The Red Sea
There were also several trade routes to the Red Sea from the Nile Valley, which allowed trade with Asian countries. Some of these ports along the Red Sea were: Suakin, Massawa, and Zeila.
Other routes led south from the Nile Valley towns of Asyut, Qus, Sunt (Aswan), and Dongola, via the oases of Kharga, Dakhla, and Dunqul, to Kufra, Dar-Fur (western Sudan), and Kordofan.
Another route led from the western oases of Kemet to Bilma and Gao, but this seems to have fallen out of use by the 10th century.
In Sudan, the main transversal route, running from east to west, started from Suakin, to Sennar or Qerri, and continued across Kordofan to Darfur and on to the countries in West and Central Africa.
The whole African continent was known to the people of Kemet, as confirmed by Herodotus, who reported that Necho, King of Kemet, c. 600 BCE, sent a Kememou ship with Phoenician sailors to circumnavigate Africa, and that they returned safely and reported of their endeavor.
How deep and far inside Africa did they travel? Many of the names of places, in the Ancient Kememou records, are not recognizable, but the time it took to travel, along with the list of exports, indicate regions at least as far as the Niger River and the Ethiopian highlands. Prince Herkhuf, one of the greatest of the caravan masters, spent 7-8 months on each of his three recorded trade missions, during the reign of King Merenra (2255-2246 BCE).
by Moustafa Gadalla
(Note: I replaced "Egypt" with "Kemet"...)
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Here's an interesting finding, revealed more clearly by my removal of the 'code word' - "Nubian" and replacing it with what is actually meant...
quote:X-Ray analysis of some royal mummies reveal strong Negro affinities, also confirming Egyptologist Frank Yurco's findings as to such affinities.
"The late XVII Dynasty and XVIII Dynasty royal mummies display the strongest Negro affinities. In terms of maxillary protrusion as measured by SNA, the mean value for these Pharaohs is 84.21 comparable to that of African Americans..."
Note: "Negro" is used in the anthropological sense here...Negro, Negroid, (Bantu), etc...
...White, western, anthropological b.s. Posted by Evergreen (Member # 12192) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: [QUOTE]What evidence you have that African Americans are related to Ancient Egyptians? The evidence is plainly obvious. African Americans come from the coastal regions of Africa, Central Africa, and the Angola region and those people aren't related to the Egyptians. The only groups that come close to egyptian kinship are Cushitic groups, Nilotic groups, and some Saharan stocks. Why do you black people think everything black includes West Africans?
Evergreen Writes: This is an odd statement. All people are related. The real question is the degree of affinity and the criteria used to measure the affinity.
From Dakhla down to Yam? – New Light on the Abu Ballas Trail
Rudolph Kuper, Frank Förster, Heiko Riemer
When the Abu Ballas Trail was discovered in 1999/2000, this most ancient Egyptian desert road was followed up by Carlo Bergmann from Dakhla Oasis as far as the Gilf Kebir plateau and subsequently investigated and documented by the ACACIA Project of the University of Cologne. Its final destination, however, remained a matter of speculation: Kufra (as Almásy suggested)? Darfur? Or via Jebel Ouenat to Ennedi? Now in 2008 Mark Borda and Mahmoud Marei found in south-eastern Jebel Ouenat a hieroglyphic rock inscription mentioning the founder of the Middle Kingdom, Pharaoh Mentuhotep II (11th Dynasty, 2046 - 1995 BC), and two countries bringing “tributes” to him: Yam and Tekhebet(en). This brings up again the much-discussed question about the location of Yam, recorded as the target of the trade expeditions of Harkhuf, 6th Dynasty governor of Upper Egypt, and placed by most authors somewhere in Nubia. Now it may be located 600 km west of the Nile Valley in Jebel Ouenat itself (?) or even further south in Darfur or in the Ennedi mountains in Chad, impressively demonstrating ancient Egypt’s far-reaching political ties and another “Corridor to Africa”.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Egypt's "corridor to Africa" ???
This is EXACTLY like saying "California's Highway 5 is a corridor to America (USA)"!
hint: a) Corridor means passageway - "passageway to Africa"
b) Egypt is a state in Africa
c) California is a state in America
and why do you insist on responding to and thus re-introducing an idiot into this thread? Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
NARMER'S VISION - RESURRECTED...FROM MANY > ONE PEOPLE, ONE CULTURE...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
You need a job.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
People notice how Wally doesn't back up his fantasy with any facts. But should it surprise anyone? The boy is desperate to be an "Anjunct Ejiption".
His postings including the excerpt quoted above make absolutely no sense.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hay Wally I think there is a thread about the land of Yam extending far to the West of Kemet..lets be clear Kush also equals Yam,Wawat,Setju and Irthet..am I right? On his third trip to the land, Harkhuf tells us that "...I found the chief of Yam going to the land of Temeh to smite Temeh (probably a Libyan group) as far as the western corner of heaven. I went forth after him to the land of Temeh and I pacified him, until he praised all the gods for the king's sake." During his return to Egypt, he also seem to have encountered some potentially hostile forces, but due to the size of his expedition and the soldiers who accompanied him, he was instead given bulls and small cattle and was escorted to the "roads of the highlands of Irthet (Irtjet)." So according your road when Kush came to power it was truly hugh as it extended some 450 to the West if I remember the thread correctly A Maltese explorer claims he may have solved one of Egypt's oldest mysteries. Mark Borda and Egyptian accomplice Mahmoud Marai, an adventure holiday planner, have discovered a large rock in the Western Desert, some 450 miles west of the Nile Valley - inscribed with a king's cartouche, royal images and hieroglyphs. Ancient Egyptians are thought never to have strayed past Dakhla Oasis, located around 200 miles from the river. ]A Maltese explorer claims he may have solved one of Egypt's oldest mysteries. Mark Borda and Egyptian accomplice Mahmoud Marai, an adventure holiday planner, have discovered a large rock in the Western Desert, some 450 miles west of the Nile Valley - inscribed with a king's cartouche, royal images and hieroglyphs. Ancient Egyptians are thought never to have strayed past Dakhla Oasis, located around 200 miles from the river. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Brada-Anansi writes: Wally I think there is a thread about the land of Yam extending far to the West of Kemet..lets be clear Kush also equals Yam,Wawat,Setju and Irthet..am I right?
...well, sorta, kinda...
Think of it like; Cleveland, Ohio
Yam, Kush Wawat, Kush...
Of course Yam is problematical, but so are the hundreds of towns, localities, etc., mentioned in Budge's exhaustive geographical listing - which he summarizes as "location unknown" except to specify usually a Sudani location...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!)
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right OK?
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/
jamboree - happy festivities
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
(from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
(from) Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully (to) wolof: dega - to understand (to) African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?")
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia (to) Ancient Egypt: okre (jkr) (to) Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀ (to) African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
(from) Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair (to) African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
I'm not a linguist, but the dig, okra, sok and nappy examples are very interesting.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Only a few of the examples I would consider to have merit. But his connection of Egyptian "bou" with Kikala (African-American) "boo" is not grounded. His connections with the word JAM is a stretch since the word is Wolof and means "SLAVE". Also Arabic for "NOISE." It is a word that came to mean a SLAVE CELEBRATION. A related Wolof word is JAAMBUUR which means "freeman" or "freed man": in other words a freed slave.
Again, we need to be careful on these renderings.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me" - (you KNOW what that means!)
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right OK?
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend (from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
(from) Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully (to) wolof: dega - to understand (to) African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?")
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia (to) Ancient Egypt: okre (jkr) (to) Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀ (to) African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
This is wrong. The word is 'SOC' not "sock" and it is an English word that means to pass or pass to. 'OK' is the abbreviation for Okay and that has nothing to do with African Americans; it's just another english word. Jam can be to party, a tune, or to dance. It can be a noun or verb. That is another english word that has nothing to do with African Americans. Stop looking for connections when they aren't there.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I'm not a linguist, but the dig, okra, sok and nappy examples are very interesting.
OK
DJAM
DEG...DEGA...
NAPY
OKRA (JKR)
SOK;SAKH (COPTIC - SASH) ..... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...AND...
BOO; BOO BOO (COPTIC - BOU BOU) Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...MY THEORY OF THIS WORD, IS THAT THE DUAL USE OF THE 'BOOMERANG' SYMBOL IS TO INFORM THE READER THAT THIS WORD IS A DUAL-SYLLABLE ONE AND THUS SHOULD BE READ: O.K.
'OH KAY' IS PROBABLY THE CORRECT PRONUNCIATION OF THIS WORD IN MTAU NTR... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
NOTES:
'Q' = K & Q
HAS THE SOUND OF 'D'
... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
NOTES:
BUDGE, FOR SOME REASON, GRATUITOUSLY ADDS AN "I" TO THE WORD, WHICH CLEARLY ISN'T THERE, AND THE SIGN LIST '33,24,35' GIVES THE PRONUNCIATION AS 'SK;SEK'; COPTIC GIVES US ONE VALID VOWEL 'A' IN 'SASH' (KH > SH ); THUS MTAU NTR = "SAH.K", #33 = "SOH.K"...
SOK
(2) DJAM IS PRONOUNCED - "JAM"... (3) MTAU NTR = MDU NTR AND IS PRONOUNCED "M.DAH.OO N.CHAIR" Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
- The word "SEKI" exists as well in wolof it is link to agricultural practices;
- The Fulani are from Egypt too, a disciple of Pr Cheikh Anta DIOP named Pr Aboubacry Moussa LAM has written a book on this subject unfortunately it's in French and not translated :"De l'origine égyptienne des peuls " , or " Fulanis (Peuls) Egyptians roots". he demonstrated with many proofs (including the linguistics evidence because he is a native fulani speaker);
- Many people of West Africa are from Egypt : The Woloffs , The Lebus, The Fulanis, The Yorubas, The Soninkes (or Sarakholle, the Pharoah NARMER is known to them under the name NARE MARI), The Akans group etc,etc.
- You have many ancient Egyptians Names and surnames in west Africa :
Isis or Aset = Assa, Assi, Aïssatou (Fulanis and Soninkés)
Osiris or Woser = Wasar ( Serers of Senegal)
Hapshepsout = Hapsatou ( Fulanis and Soninkés)
Women name like Anta, Naya, or Family name like Camara in Mali (KA-MA-RA), Sankharé in Burkina Faso ( SAN-KHA-RE the name of one pharoah of the middle kingdom Mentouhotep II : The one who feeds the Ka of Re), DIOP (Lebus and Woloffs )in Senegal, BA , KA for the fulanisetc, etc.
The senegalese family name/ Clan; DIOP (lebus and woloff of senegal) is from Egypt. In woloff (vocals) it is JOOB and when you look at the Gardiner grammer page 469 (db= Joob) it reprensents the Huppe or Upupa Epops : THE TOTEMIC ANIMAL OF THIS CLAN...
You can consult Cheikh Anta DIOP' books and articles and another LAM's Book : "Les chemins du Nil: Les relations entre l'Egypte ancienne et l'Afrique noire " (2000) or " The Nile's road : Relations between Ancient Egypt and Black Africa ";
So African Americans can claim Ancient Egypt as well. Don't believe these liars who want to steal our story and whose ancestors were savages until they met the Moors. Greeks and later Romans considered these people like animals and enslaved them.You can't find ONE classical historian (Greek , Armenian or whatever) who classified ancient Europeans( save the greeks and later the Romans : Our Pupils ) as a civilized people. On the contrary if you search deeply you'll find only nasty things.
Louis XIV , the French king nicknamed " the Sun king" should be rather called the "The Funky King" , he didn't wash his A.. and his palace Versailles was a Septic tank...The Middle age was awful in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire: Plagues, Famines, Antropophagy (They sold human meat in some places in France ..),Deseases etc.
There isn't any physical difference between a soudani and a senegalese, as between a Fulani and a Somalian , Ethiopian or African Moor.
I didn't know that Egyptians used the word BOUBOU, In my language ( I'm Wolof and Fulani) , BOUBOU is a very nice cloth that men and women wear for special events. It is inherited from the past and it is well known how Africans look beautiful with these clothes all over West Africa. This is why it makes me laugh when some liars say that their ancestors found the Africans naked LOL...
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
Science never lies , here is the reconstruction of the face of a Priest of Amun at KARNAK, dating 1100 BC. His name is ESAMUN or NATSEFAMUN. May be some of you know it already.
The reconstruction has been done by Pr Richard NEAVE of the Manchester University Medical School…
Source : Ian Wilson): « Past lives , Unlocking the secrets of our ancestors » , Editions Cassell and Co (London), 2001, page 88 to 95.
As he is a black man Ian Wilson says that he may have come from Nubia… But it’s a lie. Because Egyptians didn’t allow any stranger into their priesthood…And we know what KEMET means...
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
This is the Official Egyptian Government Website and they nullify all the crap said about a so called "white" or "mixed" Egypt :
And look at the Article : "CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS
Dans le cadre des recherches effectuées par l'Université du Caire en collaboration avec le Conseil supérieur des antiquités, il a été possible de parvenir aux caractéristiques anthropologiques des Pharaons.
Selon les indices préliminaires, on est parvenu à un certain nombre de traits génétiques des Pharaons . Il a été possible de déterminer les gènes de la taille, de la couleur de la peau et de la couleur des yeux et des cheveux du roi à l'époque pharaonique dont des échantillons ont été prélevés. Ils l'ont été sur des momies placées dans les sarcophages. Un groupe de chercheurs a pu séparer ces gènes qui ont prouvé que les Egyptiens anciens n'étaient pas hauts de taille comme on le croyait auparavant. Leur taille était plûtot moyenne, à l'exception de Ramsès II dont l'analyse des gènes a prouvé qu'il était taillé. Il a également été démontré que sa peau était brune et que ses cheveux étaient noirs, et non pas roux. La couleur rousse qui a été trouvée sur sa momie est due à une teinture (probablement du henné). Ses yeux étaient noirs avec une légère teinte de couleur marron.
Amenhotep III était court de taille, la couleur de sa peau était d'un brun clair. Ses yeux et ses cheveux étaient de couleur noire foncée. Ces traits prouvent que les rois étaient apparentés. Tous les rois à cette époque avaient une origine commune dans l'arbre généalogique de la famille royale. Il sera ainsi possible de déterminer d'une façon précise les dates et les époques dans l'avenir . Ces recherches vont confirmer certains traits anthropologiques qui ont été étudiés auparavant sur les momies pharaoniques. Ceci permettra de donner des indices préliminaires concernant les traits , les maladies et les caractéristiques des Pharaons"
I translated for you ( The original text is available on the Egyptian government website above)
1. The Title : "CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS"
GENETIC FEATURES OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
2."Dans le cadre des recherches effectuées par l'Université du Caire en collaboration avec le Conseil supérieur des antiquités, il a été possible de parvenir aux caractéristiques anthropologiques des Pharaons".
Within the framework of the researches made by the University of Cairo in association with the upper Council of antiquities, it was possible to reach the anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.
3. "Selon les indices préliminaires, on est parvenu à un certain nombre de traits génétiques des Pharaons . Il a été possible de déterminer les gènes de la taille, de la couleur de la peau et de la couleur des yeux et des cheveux du roi à l'époque pharaonique dont des échantillons ont été prélevés."
According to the preliminary indications, we reached a certain number of genetic features of the Pharaohs. It was possible to determine the genes of the size, the skin colour and the color of eyes and hair of king in the Pharaonic time samples of which were taken.
4. "Ils l'ont été sur des momies placées dans les sarcophages. Un groupe de chercheurs a pu séparer ces gènes qui ont prouvé que les Egyptiens anciens n'étaient pas hauts de taille comme on le croyait auparavant. Leur taille était plûtot moyenne, à l'exception de Ramsès II dont l'analyse des gènes a prouvé qu'il était taillé. Il a également été démontré que sa peau était brune et que ses cheveux étaient noirs, et non pas roux. La couleur rousse qui a été trouvée sur sa momie est due à une teinture (probablement du henné). Ses yeux étaient noirs avec une légère teinte de couleur marron"
Samples were taken on mummies placed in sarcophaguses. A group of researchers was able to separate these genes which proved that the ancient Egyptians were not high of size as we believed it previously. Their size was rather average, with the exception of Ramses II whose analysis of the genes proved that he was tall. It was also demonstrated that his skin was brown and that its hair were black, and not red-haired person. The red color which was found on its mummy is due to a dye (probably of the henna). The eyes were black with a light tint of brown color.
5." Amenhotep III était court de taille, la couleur de sa peau était d'un brun clair. Ses yeux et ses cheveux étaient de couleur noire foncée. Ces traits prouvent que les rois étaient apparentés. Tous les rois à cette époque avaient une origine commune dans l'arbre généalogique de la famille royale. Il sera ainsi possible de déterminer d'une façon précise les dates et les époques dans l'avenir . Ces recherches vont confirmer certains traits anthropologiques qui ont été étudiés auparavant sur les momies pharaoniques. Ceci permettra de donner des indices préliminaires concernant les traits , les maladies et les caractéristiques des Pharaons"
Amenhotep III was short of size, the color of his skin was of a light brown. The eyes and his hair were of dark black color. These features prove that the kings were parent related. All kings in this period had a common origin in the family tree of the royal family. It will be so possible to determine in a specify way dates and periods in the future. These researches are going to confirm certain anthropological features which were previously studied on the Pharaonic mummies. This will allow to give preliminary indications concerning the features, the diseases and the characteristics of the Pharaohs
This official report/letter from the Egyptian government released on the official government website on May 2000 says that both Ramses II and Amenhotep III were black men.It was their conclusion according to genetic studies.
Who are the liars who whant to steal other peoples story ???
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Are north Africans from Egypt?
Are southern Africans from Egypt?
Are east Africans from Egypt?
Why or why not?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: - The word "SEKI" exists as well in wolof it is linked to agricultural practices...
Great info in all 3 of your posts! ...there's the Mtau Ntr - Sekh: "to reap" (Wskh in Coptic), would this correspond to "Seki" in Wolof?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:OK
DJAM
DEG...DEGA...
NAPY
OKRA (JKR)
SOK;SAKH (COPTIC - SASH)
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:BOO; BOOBOO (COPTIC: BOUBOU) .....
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Are north Africans from Egypt?
Are southern Africans from Egypt?
Are east Africans from Egypt?
Why or why not?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Are north Africans from Egypt?
Are southern Africans from Egypt?
Are east Africans from Egypt?
Why or why not?
Oh, sublimely Idiotic one, if I address your inane questions, do you promise to go away?
a) I can only assume that you are referring to Ancient Egypt - Keme.t niut
b) Which north, southern, east African groups or individuals are you referring to? Without this clarification, your questions are empty, child-like...
c) Read this post from its beginning, which postulates that the Wolof, The Lebu, The Fulani, The Yoruba, The Soninke, The Akan are emigrants from Ancient Egypt and have provided documentation to substantiate this claim; that African Americans are the descendants of all of these groups would also indicate a direct lineal descent from this ancient Nilotic Civilization - Keme.t niut...
You may go now...
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
Hi Wally,
The exact word in wolof is SEKHI, the "KH" is like the "J" in spanish or the "KH" in Arabic.
I'm sure that it is linked to agricultural practice, I'll clarify the exact meaning with my elders.
Anyway many Africans are linked to ancient Egypt , you can add the Dogons ( the masters astronomers who knew the exact situation of Sirius), The Bamilékés of Cameroon, The Serers etc,etc.
I remember reading Gerald Massey ( in "Ancient Egypt" I guess) , and he was saying that some scholars found ancient kamitic myths within the African-American population.
They surely got it from their West African ancestors.
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
The link of Pr Cheikh Anta DIOP's son website, you'll find some iconographic evidence :
quote: I remember reading Gerald Massey ( in "Ancient Egypt" I guess) , and he was saying that some scholars found ancient kamitic myths within the African-American population.
They surely got it from their West African ancestors.
Why would they get it from their so called "west" African ancestors?
Are you saying that their only ancestors are so called "west" Africans?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: The link of Pr Cheikh Anta DIOP's son website, you'll find some iconographic evidence :
e) this will give you an English translation...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ---------------------------------- Which north, southern, east African groups or individuals are you referring to? Without this clarification, your questions are empty, child-like... ----------------------------------
You mean you don't know? How is that, aren't you supposedly an expert on the Ancient Egyptians?
You should be able to tell us the rest of the groups especially those in "north" and "east" Africa, seeing as how they are closer to Ancient Egypt than "west" Africa.
Wally if you can't tell us, this cast even further skepticism on your credibility.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy, why do you believe that "west" Africa and slave are synonymous?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
FROM THE ABOVE SITE CONTRIBUTED BY NEHESY
AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF A LANGUAGE FAMILY, USING THE WORD FOR "NAME" IN EACH - SHOULD ALSO HAVE INCLUDED YORUBA RAN
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
I will make it easy for you for this instance. Just tell us if "north", "east", and "southern" Africans come from Ancient Egyptians.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Where is your evidence for this Wally?
Its bad enough that you are making up things as you go along to create some mythical linguistic connection to the Ancient Egyptians. But now you are making bogus historical claims as well.
Tell us Wally, why would someone need to have a person from a specific ethnicity to perform a menial job? Your post doesn't make any sense from any businessman's point of view.
People don't do that today and it costs alot more to pay an employee than it did to purchase a slave. Anyone of any ethnicity can perform a menial job.
You act like they were making these people managers of their businesses and were involving them in making operational decisions. The people who owned those plantations wouldn't do such a thing with people they thought were on the lowest rung of humanity.
Folks one has to wonder, is Wally dumb or is he so desperate to be thought of as an Ancient Egyptian that he resorts to this nutty form of thinking to be one.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote:
quote: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Where is your evidence for this Wally?
Its bad enough...blah, blah, blah...
...THIS IDIOT NEITHER READS NOR SEEMS TO COMPREHEND ANYTHING, HE IS, AS DR. WINTERS HAS POINTED OUT, JUST A WISECRACKER...THIS NEVERTHELESS ALLOWS US TO POST AN EXCERPT FROM THE TEXT THAT WAS PROVIDED BY ASAR;
THE PAGE WAS PHOTOGRAPHED IN SUCH A MANNER THAT THE LABEL TITLE IS PARTIALLY OBSCURED; THEY ARE:
When these same eurocentrists write books or perform studies that divide people into caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid you say those people are lying and performing pseudoscience to further a eurocentric agenda.
When they say that "black" Africans were relegated to below the Sahara Desert and they are subsaharans, the people saying that are eurocentric and they are lying or spreading misinformation.
When they perform their anthropological studies that say the Ancient Egyptians were closer to Europeans than to subsaharans they are lying and have a eurocentric agenda.
So now when they their engage in pseudocience and accompany it with pseudohistory involving a segment of Africans that are needed to juxtapose to the Ancient Egyptians so the eurocentrists claim stake a claim to that history and culture, you say they are not lying.
Tell us Wally, if they lie about the former would they not lie about the latter?
If they are not lying about the latter, then are they telling the truth about the former? I.E. maybe the Ancient Egyptians are not related to other Africans. Maybe also caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid are valid scientific terms. Applying your logic the eurocentrists are correct.
Which is it Wally? It seems like you are trying to have it both ways.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Also Wally, do you not understand that pseudoscience and pseudohistory go hand in hand? Are you that dumb?
They divide people into bogus racial categories based on looks in attempts to create a hierarchy where whites are at the top and yet you are not even smart enough to realize they have to fabricate history, culture, achievement, etc. to match their anthropological pseudoscience.
Out of the three bogus racial taxonomies used to create a racial hierarchy, who do you think they were going to put slavery on and who do you think they were going to pretend were not slaves?
How did you get this stupid?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
You know what Wally, it looks like you posted a book from 1990 by some Mark Washington, Egmund Codfried, Clyde Winters type Afrocentrist. LOL!
That type of nonscholarship is even worse than a eurocentrist.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: BENU
THE CHILD CONCEIVED THROUGH EJACULATION 'BENBEN' ; BENU IS A POSSIBLE ETYMOLOGICAL SOURCE FOR 'ENU'; 'BANTU'...WHICH BECAME GENERIC FOR 'MAN/PEOPLE'...
NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE MTAU NTR WORD 'NTI' WHICH MEANS 'WORTHLESS MAN; MAN WITHOUT ANYTHING' - ESSENTIALLY 'HE IS WITHOUT'...
Bantu = koma ...
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
- First of all the first slaves in North America were the natives Americans ( See José Antonio Saco, Alan Gallay and Barbara Olexer).
- After them it was some poor white guys from England, Scotland, Ireland, they were called "White trash" by their white masters ( see : Richard Brandon Morris and Abbott Emerson Smith, Jordan and Walsh etc). These white slaves preceded the africans. But when it was not possible anymore to bring them into North America and the British west indies they started destroying Africa. The Royal Company of Africa were then created in order to bring labor.
They (white slaves) represented at least 1/2 to 2/3 of the first immigrants in the US so many of you guys have some white slaves for ancestors...The soul drivers even separated the families , they sold the husband, wife and kids to different masters...
Everybody should read John R Spears "The American solave trade", in order to know how American felons kidnapped Africans in West Africa ( many primary sources).
- West Africa is not a synonym of slave. Slave is a synonym of a white man , more accurately a white often blond Slavic East-European who were enslaved during all the middle age in France, Italy, Germany, Spain, North Africa etc (Robert Bartlett , Christian Verlinden, Robert Davis etc). In antiquity 99 % of the slaves in Roma and Greece where whites...It's the same pattern in Ancient Egypt...
The Slave trade started from central Africa where the portuguese thugs created a slave raid province named Angola. Before that they kidnapped some moors and sold them in Portugal in the 15 th century.The first slaves deported in America in 1619 were from Angola.
They were prisoners of wars , defeated by the portuguese and dispacthed to Brazil. But some American felon pirates attacked them on their way ( in the Caribbean sea). They stole the African Prisoners ( see "White Cargo - The Forgotten History Of Britains White Slaves In America" by Walsh and Jordan)from the Portuguese and sold them in Virginia.
By the way they were also Indentured Servants and one of them named Anthony Johnson, bought years laters, few White Indentured servants for his plantation...
So if Many West Africans were slaves in the US it's because West Africa was the easiest way to sail for the new world. But you had North African slaves (Algeria, Morocco), from Madagascar, from Ethiopia etc.
You had the Irish Trade, The Chinese "Pig" Trade, The coolie Trade. Your violence destroyed many people...The spanish had filippinos slaves in Cuba.
Anyway the first slaves in the New World (West Indies and Americas) were the indian first and then white guys ( Engagés, Indentured servants, Forzados etc), it is a fact for English, French, Spanish , Portuguese colonies.
The USA was a dumping colony for all the convicts, vagrants, felons, Murderers, prostitutes of England, Ireland and Scotland. Some of them were perpetual slaves ( see Richard brandon Morris). It is the same trademark for French who deported all their criminals and prostitutes in Louisiana and their colonies in the WI ( Guadeloupe and Martinique).
After the independence war , England jails were so crowded that Anglish choose Australia to dump their felons.
- So many of you should do some research about how your ancestors came in the US...There is a great probability that they were White indentured servants, whipped, beat to death,worked to death, tortured, and raped by their white masters ( See : Morris, Smith , Jordan and Walsh, Hoffmann, Gabriel Debien etc).
In Jamaica Colonel William Brayne was the Las casas' of the white men . He wrote to Cromwell the butcher because many white indentured servants were destroyed by their white masters. He suggested to bring Africans because at least as they would be bought, Masters may be less cruel (unfortunately it was even worse).
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy wrote:
quote: So if Many West Africans were slaves in the US it's because West Africa was the easiest way to sail for the new world. But you had North African slaves (Algeria, Morocco), from Madagascar, from Ethiopia etc.
Wally will not be pleased with the above statement.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy wrote:
quote: So if Many West Africans were slaves in the US it's because West Africa was the easiest way to sail for the new world.
Have you looked at a map? So called "west" Africa is not the closet region of Africa to the United States and the Carribean.
Take a look and tell me that so called "north" Africa is not closer to the U.S. and the Carribean than so called "west" Africa.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, look at what Wally posted for his evidence. A book that uses racist literature from the 1920s and 1940s. Gee, one has to question other things that Wally says. Who on earth would use passages from someone who is relying on people who engaged in scientific racism during the 20th century for his evidence.
Also note how the passage he posted is basically just making opinionated statements, its not providing evidence.
LOL! Wally. Damn.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
HERE'S AN ANCESTRAL MAP WHICH I CONSTRUCTED, USING ONLY A PORTION OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN LINEAGE THAT CONNECTS DIRECTLY BACK TO KEMET - KUSH...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
MY REVISED VERSION... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
(update...)
The genetic relationship (descent from a common ancestor) between two languages is determined by examining the basic vocabulary of the two languages. When there is systematic correspondence between the two languages in a large number of basic words, such as body parts, lower numerals and natural objects, the existence of a genetic relationship cannot be in doubt.
Pharaonic Egyptian - Wolof; (Wolof meaning)
aam - aam : seize (take this)
aar - aar : paradise (divine protection)
Aku - Aku : foreigners (Creole descendants of European traders and African wives)
anu - K.enou : pillar
atef - ate : a crown of Osiris, judge of the soul (to judge)
ba - bei : the ram-god (goat)
bai - bai : a priestly title (father)
ben ben - ben ben : overflow, flood
bon - bon : evil
bu - bu : place
bu bon - bu bon : evil place
bu nafret - bu rafet : good place
da - da : child
deg - deega : to see, to look at carefully (to understand)
deresht - deret : blood
diou - diou rom : five
djit - djit : magistrate (guide, leader)
dtti - datti : the savage desert (the savage brush)
Etbo - temb : the 'floater' (to float)
fei - fab : to carry
fero - fari : king
iaay - yaay : old woman (mother)
ire - yer : to make
itef - itef : father
kat - kata : vagina (to have sexual intercourse)
kau - kaou : elevated, above (heaven)
kau - kau : high, above, heaven
kaw - kaw : height
kef - kef : to seize, grasp
kem -khem : black (burnt, burnt black)
kemat - kematef : end of a period, completion, limit
khekh - khekh : to fight, to wage war, war
kher - ker : country (house)
kwk - kwk : darkness
maat - mat : justice
maga - mag : veteran, old person
mer - maar : love (passionate love)
mun - won : buttocks
nag - nag : bull (cattle)
nak - nak : ox, bull (cow)
NDam - NDam : throne
neb - ndab : float
nen - nen : place where nothing is done (nothingness)
nit - nit : citizen
Ntr - Twr : protecting god, totem
nwt - nit : fire of heaven (evening light)
o.k. - wah keh : correct, right
onef - onef : he (past tense)
ones - ones : she (past tense)
onsen - onsen : they (past tense)
pe - pey : capital, heaven (King's capital)
per - per : house (the wall surrounding the house)
pur - bur : king
ram - yaram : body, shoulder (body)
rem - erem : to weap, tears (compassion)
ro - ro : mouth (to swallow)
sa - sa : wise, educated, to teach
seh - seh : noble (dignitary)
seked - seggay : a slope
sen - sen : brother
sent - san : sister
set - set : woman (wife)
shopi - sopi : to transform
sity - seety : to prove
sok - sookha : to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
ta - ta : earth, land (inundated earth)
ta tenen - ten : first lands (clay of first humans)
tefnit - tefnit : to spit
tem - tem : to completely stop doing something
tn.r - dener : to remember (to imagine)
top - bop : top of head
twr - twr : libation
uuh - uuf : carry
wer - wer : great, trustworthy
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, according to your own moronic cut and paste lunacy the Hausa would not have been brought to America as slaves.
More evidence that you are just a low self-esteem simpleton. Intellect isn't your strong suit isn't it Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: American slave-holder's - Task: most preferred African Ethnic groups
House servant Mandingo, Wolof, Fulani, Bambara, Malinke
Artisan Ashante, Fante, Yoruba, Fon
Rice cultivator Mande
Field slave Serer, Fula, Balante, Papel, Mende, Temne, Congo, Ibo
Damn folks, this Wally character is dumb. Wally aren't the Fulani and Fula the same people? Which makes your mindless posts even more stupid, yet alone contradicting itself.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy wrote:
quote: So if Many West Africans were slaves in the US it's because West Africa was the easiest way to sail for the new world.
Er um, so called "west" Africa is further away from America than so called "north" Africa. So you've just been proven wrong.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy wrote:
quote: The Slave trade started from central Africa where the portuguese thugs created a slave raid province named Angola. Before that they kidnapped some moors and sold them in Portugal in the 15 th century.The first slaves deported in America in 1619 were from Angola.
People, doesn't this clown sound like Doug? It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. So now europeans were running around Africa at will taking people into slavery.
Next this fool will be saying that it wasn't the late 1800s when the machine gun had to be invented that African colonization was successful but the 15 and 1600s was when Africa was colonized.
Nehesy will also be telling us the lie that so called subsahara Africa was colonized before so called "north" Africa.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Wally why are you wasting time with the jackass? Seriously.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Its funny how you interject not to refute, but to have Wally run his dumb ass away. You're pissed off because Wally and Nehesy got exposed for either lying or not knowing what the hell they are talking about. This is a scholarly and intellectual forum. If they can't take the heat, then they better not post.
Both of you are idiots and I am exposing you as such. If you could refute what I say, you would. Your post is simply waving the white flag of defeat.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Take a look at the following Wolof words and give your judgement as to which one, if any, corresponds with the Mtau Ntr "jam" - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness:
jaam - slave
jaama - peace
jaamba - opium, marijuana
jaamu - worship, adore
jommi - be bewitched, under a spell
...tell me what you think...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
I forgot to add that this posting is addressed to the intelligent ones here, only!...
Take a look at the following Wolof words and give your judgement as to which one, if any, corresponds with the Mtau Ntr "jam" - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness:
jaam - slave
jaama - peace
jaamba - opium, marijuana
jaamu - worship, adore
jommi - be bewitched, under a spell
...tell me what you think...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
JOURNEY OF THE WOLOF PEOPLE:
(1) FROM KEMET → (2) KUSH → (3) THE MALI EMPIRE →(4) MAURITANIA → (5) SENEGAL →(6) NEW ORLEANS
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally posted the diagram at the bottom of the page.
Wally, explain this. This looks like something Coon, Howell, or Blumenbach would create.
Wally it you took one of those pseudoscience maps from the race loon forums and applied a historical spin job to it.
Folks, do you remember what I said about pseudoscience always has its partner in crime pseudohistory tagging along with it? Wally's diagram is a perfect example of their fraudulent partnership.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Argyle104, talking to Wally:
''Have you looked at a map? So called "west" Africa is not the closet region of Africa to the United States and the Carribean.''
Can you produce a map that says otherwise?
''Take a look and tell me that so called "north" Africa is not closer to the U.S. and the Carribean than so called "west" Africa.''
...then north Africa doesn't have a western component to it?
I see you still strugglin' with this stuff.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Apparently you're too dumb to understand the preface of "so called", which is basically mocking the meaning of these terms by many fools who either won't or can't name the countries in these regions "they" like to name, but still use the terms anyway because it fits their racial dogma.
However, feel free to define "west" and "north" Africa since others who have your mentality won't or can't.
We're waiting.............
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Grumman wrote:
quote: Can you produce a map that says otherwise?
Well according to normal people who can comprehend what they see, so called "north" African countries Morocco and Algeria are a hell of a lot closer to the U.S. and Caribbean than "west" African countries Nigeria and Ghana. Which is why many people in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and Cuba look like people from so called "north" Africa. Some African Americans from the U.S. also look like people from so called "north" Africa as well.
Are you saying that Morocco and Algeria are not closer to the U.S. and Caribbean than Nigeria and Ghana?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
saaay, this isn't a trick question, you intelligent ones out there...
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Take a look at the following Wolof words and give your judgement as to which one, if any, corresponds with the Mtau Ntr "jam" - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness:
jaam - slave
jaama - peace
jaamba - opium, marijuana
jaamu - worship, adore
jommi - be bewitched, under a spell
...tell me what you think...
...what's your take? ...seriously
And also, while you're at it; please give me your analysis of this:
African American hep, hip, hippy - aware of what's going on hep cat - a person who is aware
Wolof hipi - to open one's eyes hipi kat - a person who has opened his eyes
Mtau Ntr hep - advance, progress (physical motion) (page 478a)
...????
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Argyle104 says,
''Apparently you're too dumb to understand the preface of "so called"
Yeah I agree. It's not hard to do when some of the material isn't smart.
''Are you saying that Morocco and Algeria are not closer to the U.S. and Caribbean than Nigeria and Ghana?''
Nope. Not saying that at all.
I'll leave it alone Wally.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Grumman wrote:
quote: ''Are you saying that Morocco and Algeria are not closer to the U.S. and Caribbean than Nigeria and Ghana?''
Nope. Not saying that at all.
Perhaps you should be talking to your little friend Wally because he's definitely confused, stupid, or believes in his white owner's racial dogma.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally posted a pseudohistory map, he got from scientific race loon site.
Wally, looking at that map can you explain why they would skip over southern Africa and only take people from the Mozambique and the eastern Madagascar coastal area?
It doesn't make sense.
You are intelligent aren't you, please explain if you can? Or do you always simply swallow whatever your white owners tell you?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, per your crazy map, how could all of those people from so called "west" Africa be taken as slaves to not only the new world, but also according to your map; europe, north africa, and the so called middle east?
According to the race loons that you love to listen to and quote, that is tens of millions of people.
What were these people in so called "west" Africa doing? Standing around telling others "Here we are. Take us into slavery."
Seriously Wally, you actually believe that for 400+ years people would allow their family members, doctors, metal workers, farmers, hunters, soldiers, legal counselors, nurses, treasurers to just disappear? You actually believe that Wally? Damn, you're dumb.
It doesn't make any sense Wally.
These people should not even exist today. Also if there tens of millions of people taken, then they most certainly had enough people to prevent themselves from being taken into slavery.
Wally this is just plain old logic and commonsense. So either you were dumb enough to believe lies because you don't have any intelligence or you know better and are simply repeating race loonery.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally if the people you listed above were taken by the tens of millions, why do they still exist today?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally don't run from this intellectual thrashing I'm administering.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The appellation 'red' in African American is used to describe light-skinned Blacks who have reddish skin and hair color; the classic examples are “Chicago Red” which referred to Redd Foxx and “Detroit Red” which was Malcolm X.
This is a natural inheritance from Africa; in general Red is a symbol of mourning, death, evil, blood, the devil...but it can also be used to objectively describe someone like the Himba people of Namibia who are called the Red People because they use a hematite mixture to paint their skins red.
It is also an African appellation used to describe “White people”
In the Mtau Ntr it comes in this form:
Tamhu – a non-pejorative which merely means “Red people”; this word is derived from “Tamh” which means “hematite”
Dereshou – a pejorative which also means “Red people” but also carries with itself the implication of evil, bad, devil...this is used as a counterpoise to Kememou or “Black people” - good, proper, holy...
Addendum: a similar appellation, without any use of color, is the one used for “Asiatics”:
Aamu - “Asiatics”; however this word is derived from Aamu, which means “peasant (fellaheen), coarse...”
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Wally lives in some sort of racecentric world some where between here and Neptune.
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
This guy posts lot of bullshit (argyle) and he thinks that he is smart...
It is well documented that North Africans ( Algerians and Moroccans) have been slaves in the New world :
- Hispaniola - North America - Cuba - The french West indies (La Martinique]
The records showed that even Turks have been slaves in Cuba sugar Plantations (See Pr Michael Gomes or Gomez).
The first slaves kidnapped from Africa by the portuguese were actually from Morocco ( Azenagui, Azenaguen , or Sanhaja berbers) but they were deported in Portugal and Spain , like the slaves kidnapped in Congo by these thugs (see Père Dieudonné Rinchon " La traite et l'esclavage des Congolais par les Européens)
These North Africans slaves were deported in the New world along with other African slaves (Senegalese, Congolese)from spain they were the group called LADINOS.
Jacques Heers the French historian from La-Sorbonne has demonstrated how thousands of North Africans lived as slaves in Spain , Portugal and the South of france in his book "Les barbaresques" (2008)
Gilberto Freyre said it before in "casa grande y senzala".
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally you still haven't answered an important question. Why would the Ancient Egyptians only migrate to the countries of what "you" define as "west" Africa?
Why would they not go to the countries that "you" do not deem as "west" Africa (ie. "north", "southern", and "east" Africa)?
Is it because of the fact that you falsely believe the countries "you" define as "west" Africa were the world's one and only population to be slaves on the entire planet? Therefore, since you believe that your ethnicity comes from them, you feel the need to boost so called "west" Africans up, which more importantly to you, boosts you up in the process by claiming they are the Ancient Egyptians?
Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Help us understand something. You say the Ancient Egyptians migrated and became certain ethnic populations of so called "west" Africa.
If that is the case Wally, why do those "west" African ethnic groups whom you say are descendants of the Ancient Egyptians not resemble the current indigenous ethnic groups who reside in Egypt and Sudan?
Shouldn't there be at least some similarities in phenotype?
Or maybe you are saying that "west" Africans are more related to the Ancient Egyptians than the indigenous ethnic groups that populate Egypt and Sudan. Is that what you are saying Wally? Why would you believe something so stupid?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, here is something else your crazy postings causes one to ponder.
You are saying that the Ancient Egyptians could build huge monuments and buildings, yet would later migrate to another part of Africa that did not even match the geography and topograpy of the land they occupied previously and according to "you", become so pathetic that they would become the world's lone source of slaves.
Does that make any sense Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, this Nehesy character really is Doug.
LOL at how he implies that Europeans were running wild throughtout Africa taking people as the pleased.
Nehesy your thought process is absolutely pathetic.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Nehesy wrote:
quote: The records showed that even Turks have been slaves in Cuba sugar Plantations (See Pr Michael Gomes or Gomez).
The first slaves kidnapped from Africa by the portuguese were actually from Morocco ( Azenagui, Azenaguen , or Sanhaja berbers) but they were deported in Portugal and Spain , like the slaves kidnapped in Congo by these thugs (see Père Dieudonné Rinchon " La traite et l'esclavage des Congolais par les Européens)
These North Africans slaves were deported in the New world along with other African slaves (Senegalese, Congolese)from spain they were the group called LADINOS.
Jacques Heers the French historian from La-Sorbonne has demonstrated how thousands of North Africans lived as slaves in Spain , Portugal and the South of france in his book "Les barbaresques" (2008)
Gilberto Freyre said it before in "casa grande y senzala".
Wally will be most distressed by this.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nehesy: This guy posts lot of bullshit (argyle) and he thinks that he is smart...
A wise person will avoid debate with a fool. __Proverbs
You see how you, a wise person, have been angered into a debate with a fool that is totally irrelevant, at this point, to the flow of this topic.
Here's my opening statement:
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
...African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
(*Fulani are Pel from Nigerien areas & Fulbe are Pel from Senegambian areas...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
NORTHWEST AFRICA TO THE GULF OF GUINEA - A PRIMARY SOURCE FOR THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE TO THE UNITED STATES...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The appellation 'red' in African American is used to describe light-skinned Blacks who have reddish skin and hair color; the classic examples are “Chicago Red” which referred to Redd Foxx and “Detroit Red” which was Malcolm X.
This is a natural inheritance from Africa; in general Red is a symbol of mourning, death, evil, blood, the devil...but it can also be used to objectively describe someone like the Himba people of Namibia who are called the Red People because they use a hematite mixture to paint their skins red.
It is also an African appellation used to describe “White people”
In the Mtau Ntr it comes in this form:
Tamhu – a non-pejorative which merely means “Red people”; this word is derived from “Tamh” which means “hematite”
Dereshou – a pejorative which also means “Red people” but also carries with itself the implication of evil, bad, devil...this is used as a counterpoise to Kememou or “Black people” - good, proper, holy...
Addendum: a similar appellation, without any use of color, is the one used for “Asiatics”:
Aamu - “Asiatics”; however this word is derived from Aamu, which means “peasant (fellaheen), coarse...”
TAMHU: RED PEOPLE, "LIBYAN", WHITE PEOPLE
DERESHOU: RED PEOPLE
ADDENDUM
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
This topic was beaten to death many times. Of course African Americans as people of African descent are related to the ancient Egyptians and if European Americans want to claim Ancient Greeks why can't African Americans claim Ancient Egypt??
Although it was explained ad-naseum that the Wolof are entirely different people and are NOT direct descendants of Egyptians.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ...it was explained ad-naseum that the Wolof are entirely different people and are NOT direct descendants of Egyptians.
Indeed? Where can we find these ad-nauseam "explanations"?
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Stupid Djehuti, Europeans are related to Greeks because the Greeks are part of the Indo Europeans invasion of the area and were caucasians. Some of you folks need to be locked up for your own protection.
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
@ Argyle
I dont' know this DOUG, as you can read on my posting , I'm from Paris/ France. You're a joke man ! You ask a lot of question but give no answers...I guess it's because you don't have any Scholarship...
@ Wally
Don't worry bro ! I'm not angry, just chilling from my workplace. Speaking with you guys is a pleasure. And your research is 100 % right for me. African-American have links with Ancient Egypt through their African ancestors.
The Wolof are straight from Egypt [See the west family african names who are genetic prints in Africa: DIOP, KA ,BA, SANKHARE, KAMARA, LY, SY, KANE etc ], the first who said it wasn't Pr Cheikh Anta DIOP , but the French governor and scholar of Dakar: Maurice Delafosse.
Ancient Egypt had links with Mali, for instance the French Scholar René Caillié said that Djenné monuments reminded him the monuments of Kemet (see "Journal d'un voyage à Temboctou et à Jenné dans l'Afrique centrale" 1830 and reprinted in 1996 under the following title "Voyage à Tombouctou "). The Askias of songhai were buried in small Pyramids. The Mummification was practised by the Akans of Ivory coast, and Ghana.
And as I told you before I'm Wolof/Fulani. I speak wolof and it's very close to the Medu Neter.Even Sir Alan Gardiner in his Egyptian Grammar acknowledge that Ancient Egyptian language was very close to African languages...It wasn' a semitic language. The Afro-Asiatic theory can't stand because it's ONLY African languages spoken in Africa and Asia. But the speakers were African. Christopher EHRET made very clear (and history also) that the first SEMITES were BLACKS. This is why SUMERIANS were black people, European scholars said it in the past : Marcel dieulafoy, François Lenormant, Higgins.
Marcel Dieulafoy acknowledge that there was aboriginal black persians and Cambyse had some of them into his army.(see his book "Acropole de Suse" 1890, you cand find it on the website internet archives).
The Natufians of Palestine had African Bantu features and it is said by the Canadian Donald B Redford.
The best book that you can find about the links between Ancient Egypt and African contemporary people is Pr Aboubacry Moussa Lam : "Les chemins du Nil : les relations entre l'Egypte ancienne et l'Afrique noire", 1997 .
I'll translate some parts of this book when I have some time at home.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...until we can get Nehesy's translations from the book:
The paths of the Nile. The relationship between ancient Egypt and Black Africa by Aboubacar Moussa Lam, Ed-Khepera Presence Africaine, 1997, 223 pp.
I have been able to glean some of the basics of its theme from reviews...
quote:Lam writes:
Egyptian civilization comes not only from within the continent but with the desertification of the Sahara, African populations have ebbed in the Nile Valley... ---
...the fineness, the number and variety of observed similarities that give the valley of the Nile this privileged status (cradle), and by eliminating the multiple smoke screens raised between Egypt and Black Africa ... ---
the accumulation of these facts must allow unrestricted recognition of the Nilotic origin of the overwhelming majority of black African populations of the interior of the continent.
This is consistent with Diop's theory that Blacks, at one time, formed a cluster within the ancient Nile Valley...
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammered: Stupid Djehuti, Europeans are related to Greeks because the Greeks are part of the Indo Europeans invasion of the area and were caucasians. Some of you folks need to be locked up for your own protection.
And how am I stupid?! Have I ever denied Europeans being related to Greeks?? Of course Greeks are Europeans also!! Indo-European is a linguistic phylum by the way, and one does not necessarily have to speak closely related languages to be closely genetically related.
So the question is, why do YOU deny Africans' relation to ancient Egyptians who are also equally African?? Are you aware that there are even West Africans in Sub-Sahara who speak Afrasian languages related to Egyptian??
Seriously professor, you can keep drinking your Texan liquor but lay off the meth, okay.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Some notes for the above...
Most Coptic words retain their singular form in the plural.
pirwmi - the man/nirwmi - the men
However, some are irregular and require the alteration of their singular form
pisafe - the desert/nisafeu - the deserts
piiaro - the river/niiarwou - the rivers
piouro - the king/niourwou - the kings
pirw - the mouth/nirwou - the mouths
------
pirwmi (pee.roam.ee)
nirwmi (nee.roam.ee)
------
kmom: be black, black
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...did the Wolof surname Diop derive from the Nuer surname Duop during the Wolof's sojourn in the Sudan?...
Methinks so...do you?
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
The wolof surname came from the Egyptian Medu neter : DB , who is vocalized as JOOB by Sir Alan Gardiner ( see his grammar page 469).
In wolof DIOP is said : DJOB or JOOB, when senegalses praised the DIOP family ( and by the same way) their ancestors, they say : DJOBEU DJOUBEU.
The clan in general is called : DJOBENE. The single family surname is DJOB
The wolof DJOB is the Egyptian JOOB.
And one fantastic thing is about their totemic animal clan who is the Huppe (Upupa epops).
The old generation of the DJOB family (those born in the late 50' and their forefathers), specially the children (until puberty) and women wore this huppe as a Hairstyle like the young Ramses II or Ramessu.
Six migrations from Egypt went to Senegal are from Egypt they left the country when the persians conquered Egypt. Our elders gave to the French the exact serekh name of the Persian king who persecuted the native Egyptians. Many fled in Africa (West , central, east), in Asia, Arabia, Ethiopia, Somalia etc.
It is written in Aboubacry Moussa Lam's book ! Balandier and Mercier 2 french scholars have shown in 1952 (before cheikh anta diop) that the lebus of senegal were from the nile valley.
White scholars know our true story this is why they lie and reverse the positions. We were the kings and they know it.
If you read Marcel Dieulafoy "Acropole de suse" , he says that the first inhabitants of Suse 'Susiana' in Persia were blacks. They were civilized ( palaces, scriptures, agricultural) and guess what ? Savages whites of the zagros mountains were their enemies and the Susians ruled them.
This is a story they won't tell you anymore !
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote: Nehesy wrote:
The wolof surname came from the Egyptian Medu neter : DB , who is vocalized as JOOB by Sir Alan Gardiner ( see his grammar page 469).
In wolof DIOP is said : DJOB or JOOB, when senegalses praised the DIOP family ( and by the same way) their ancestors, they say : DJOBEU DJOUBEU.
The clan in general is called : DJOBENE. The single family surname is DJOB
The wolof DJOB is the Egyptian JOOB.
And one fantastic thing is about their totemic animal clan who is the Huppe (Upupa epops).
The old generation of the DJOB family (those born in the late 50' and their forefathers), specially the children (until puberty) and women wore this huppe as a Hairstyle like the young Ramses II or Ramessu.
Six migrations from Egypt went to Senegal are from Egypt they left the country when the persians conquered Egypt. Our elders gave to the French the exact serekh name of the Persian king who persecuted the native Egyptians. Many fled in Africa (West , central, east), in Asia, Arabia, Ethiopia, Somalia etc.
It is written in Aboubacry Moussa Lam's book ! Balandier and Mercier 2 french scholars have shown in 1952 (before cheikh anta diop) that the lebus of senegal were from the nile valley.
White scholars know our true story this is why they lie and reverse the positions. We were the kings and they know it.
If you read Marcel Dieulafoy "Acropole de suse" , he says that the first inhabitants of Suse 'Susiana' in Persia were blacks. They were civilized ( palaces, scriptures, agricultural) and guess what ? Savages whites of the zagros mountains were their enemies and the Susians ruled them.
This is a story they won't tell you anymore !
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Nehesy wrote: Balandier and Mercier 2 french scholars have shown in 1952 (before cheikh anta diop) that the lebus of senegal were from the nile valley.
There are a people living in Senegal called the Lebou and whose name means "fishermen or people who live by the sea."
So what do we have in Mdu Ntr?
"r" or "l" is a preposition meaning for example - to;against;at "bo" in Mdu Ntr and in Coptic means "canal" or "stream" "l_bo" means "at the stream" "l_bou" means "those at the stream" Lebou - "Those at the stream"
Thus it is accurate to state that Lebou in the Mdu Ntr language would mean and be consistent with "people who live by the sea (water)."
And the etymology also of Libya?
Budge: Lebu - Libyans
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
(update...per 2 additional contributions by Nahesy)
The genetic relationship (descent from a common ancestor) between two languages is determined by examining the basic vocabulary of the two languages. When there is systematic correspondence between the two languages in a large number of basic words, such as body parts, lower numerals and natural objects, the existence of a genetic relationship cannot be in doubt.
Pharaonic Egyptian - Wolof; (Wolof meaning)
aam - aam : seize (take this)
aar - aar : paradise (divine protection)
Aku - Aku : foreigners (Creole descendants of European traders and African wives)
anu - K.enou : pillar
atef - ate : a crown of Osiris, judge of the soul (to judge)
ba - bei : the ram-god (goat)
bai - bai : a priestly title (father)
ben ben - ben ben : overflow, flood
bon - bon : evil
bu - bu : place
bu bon - bu bon : evil place
bu nafret - bu rafet : good place
da - da : child
deg - deega : to see, to look at carefully (to understand)
deresht - deret : blood
diou - diou rom : five
djit - djit : magistrate (guide, leader)
Djoob - Djob : a surname
dtti - datti : the savage desert (the savage brush)
Etbo - temb : the 'floater' (to float)
fei - fab : to carry
fero - fari : king
iaay - yaay : old woman (mother)
ire - yer : to make
itef - itef : father
kat - kata : vagina (to have sexual intercourse)
kau - kaou : elevated, above (heaven)
kau - kau : high, above, heaven
kaw - kaw : height
kef - kef : to seize, grasp
kem -khem : black (burnt, burnt black)
kemat - kematef : end of a period, completion, limit
khekh - khekh : to fight, to wage war, war
kher - ker : country (house)
kwk - kwk : darkness
lebou - Lebou : those at the stream, Lebou/fishermen Senegal
maat - mat : justice
maga - mag : veteran, old person
mer - maar : love (passionate love)
mun - won : buttocks
nag - nag : bull (cattle)
nak - nak : ox, bull (cow)
NDam - NDam : throne
neb - ndab : float
nen - nen : place where nothing is done (nothingness)
nit - nit : citizen
Ntr - Twr : protecting god, totem
nwt - nit : fire of heaven (evening light)
o.k. - wah keh : correct, right
onef - onef : he (past tense)
ones - ones : she (past tense)
onsen - onsen : they (past tense)
pe - pey : capital, heaven (King's capital)
per - per : house (the wall surrounding the house)
pur - bur : king
ram - yaram : body, shoulder (body)
rem - erem : to weap, tears (compassion)
ro - ro : mouth (to swallow)
sa - sa : wise, educated, to teach
seh - seh : noble (dignitary)
seked - seggay : a slope
sen - sen : brother
sent - san : sister
set - set : woman (wife)
shopi - sopi : to transform
sity - seety : to prove
sok - sookha : to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
ta - ta : earth, land (inundated earth)
ta tenen - ten : first lands (clay of first humans)
tefnit - tefnit : to spit
tem - tem : to completely stop doing something
tn.r - dener : to remember (to imagine)
top - bop : top of head
twr - twr : libation
uuh - uuf : carry
wer - wer : great, trustworthy
Posted by Bob_01 (Member # 15687) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Stupid Djehuti, Europeans are related to Greeks because the Greeks are part of the Indo Europeans invasion of the area and were caucasians. Some of you folks need to be locked up for your own protection.
Have you ever been to Greece? It's obvious the group is part of a continuum that includes Africa and Asia. Most native Greeks would understand that if all of us were in the same room. Having even lived with these populations, I even get to hear their medi-centrist racial classifications as well.
I think discussion here is often poor due to limited American exposure to regions outside Greater America. That really limits cultural understanding, especially when we're dealing with a giant melting pot. In fact, most "Italians" I've met in US tend to be mixed (check out their high inter-ethnic rates) often being identical to Anglos.
Most young "Italians" in US, who look visibly "ethnic", can't even speak their ancestral tongue, which is obviously central to the Italian experience. Luckily, I have been fortunate enough to live with various southern Europeans, born/raised populations in their respective nations.
Saying that, there is a thin line between ignorance and stupidity. You know clearly well why white Americans used to (or still do) call Southern Europeans: Guineas. This term was not used against Jews, or Northern Europeans who lived in the once backward sun belt. Much of the high standard of living in those parts are quite recent, remember.
The term to anyone sane obviously refers to that groups proximity with Africans. That is, African-admixture. The darker skin tone, near-black hair, predominantly black eyes, doesn't require scholarly assessments. Most laymen were able to point that one once these migrants moved into the United States and elsewhere.
Italians and Greeks, to most would cluster much closer to Africa than the Dutch, English or the Irish. The last shared a history of struggle with Blacks, and only became "white" recently. However the Irish were never suggested to have a high racial proximity with Blacks.
Having been to Europe, Southern Europe is visibly part of a continuum that includes Africa and Europe. It's backed with genetic and epidemiological data as well. Those populations feature numerous biological traits that developed amongst recent, non-OOA, populations.
On the other hand, the variability present in Africa is largely indigenous. Genetic data suggests that the overwhelming majority of diversity present developed within the continent. Since Africa is central point of human variation, diversity would be much more limited within Europe.
Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean Africans are "pure". No one is (simply due to genetic recombination). That is especially apparent within an intra-continental context, where Africa is isolated and genetic differentiation is given a larger weight. Regardless of scale used, to remove random "noise", humans still continue to fall under a genetic and phenotypic continuum.
Human differentiation is gradual rather than abrupt. If we were to just isolate the intra-African clusters, use classifiers or fictions (that is what haplotypes are), we'd still see high level of admixture. Populations within Africa did not remain "pure" within a continental context. That is why genetic traits common amongst "West Africans" (i.e. E1b1a, Benin sickle cell, etc) are found amongst modern Egyptians as well. In the case of Southern Egyptians, at higher levels (obviously), than Horner populations. Geography obviously played a role in that case.
Having said that, I wouldn't argue that Greeks aren't "European". The term is political and is not scientific. Greece, as a nation, is part of NATO and thus part of the Western sphere. However these population represent an intermediate population between the highly differentiated (vs. Africans) Northern Europe and Africans. That is understood at a universal level outside of the sciences as well. Remember, "guinea".
Last point: The term "Caucasian" is as scientific as "Hobbit" and ultimately does not amount to anything in this discussion. Modern [Northern] Europeans, having been isolated in Caucasia and then Europe, have certainly differentiated heavily. However, the distance isn't great enough to form its own "race". That population is merely an extension of Africans.
On the other hand, the more, recent within-Africa developments, that does NOT involve the Caucasus mountains, are found in the Southern-most parts of Europe decreasing as one goes North. This migration has been continuous throughout history and we even see populations akin to half-Egyptian/ Greek individuals in the Fayum Portraits present throughout modern Southern Europe. Posted by Bob_01 (Member # 15687) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: (update...per 2 additional contributions by Nahesy)
The genetic relationship (descent from a common ancestor) between two languages is determined by examining the basic vocabulary of the two languages. When there is systematic correspondence between the two languages in a large number of basic words, such as body parts, lower numerals and natural objects, the existence of a genetic relationship cannot be in doubt.
Pharaonic Egyptian - Wolof; (Wolof meaning)
aam - aam : seize (take this)
aar - aar : paradise (divine protection)
Aku - Aku : foreigners (Creole descendants of European traders and African wives)
anu - K.enou : pillar
atef - ate : a crown of Osiris, judge of the soul (to judge)
ba - bei : the ram-god (goat)
bai - bai : a priestly title (father)
ben ben - ben ben : overflow, flood
bon - bon : evil
bu - bu : place
bu bon - bu bon : evil place
bu nafret - bu rafet : good place
da - da : child
deg - deega : to see, to look at carefully (to understand)
deresht - deret : blood
diou - diou rom : five
djit - djit : magistrate (guide, leader)
Djoob - Djob : a surname
dtti - datti : the savage desert (the savage brush)
Etbo - temb : the 'floater' (to float)
fei - fab : to carry
fero - fari : king
iaay - yaay : old woman (mother)
ire - yer : to make
itef - itef : father
kat - kata : vagina (to have sexual intercourse)
kau - kaou : elevated, above (heaven)
kau - kau : high, above, heaven
kaw - kaw : height
kef - kef : to seize, grasp
kem -khem : black (burnt, burnt black)
kemat - kematef : end of a period, completion, limit
khekh - khekh : to fight, to wage war, war
kher - ker : country (house)
kwk - kwk : darkness
lebou - Lebou : those at the stream, Lebou/fishermen Senegal
maat - mat : justice
maga - mag : veteran, old person
mer - maar : love (passionate love)
mun - won : buttocks
nag - nag : bull (cattle)
nak - nak : ox, bull (cow)
NDam - NDam : throne
neb - ndab : float
nen - nen : place where nothing is done (nothingness)
nit - nit : citizen
Ntr - Twr : protecting god, totem
nwt - nit : fire of heaven (evening light)
o.k. - wah keh : correct, right
onef - onef : he (past tense)
ones - ones : she (past tense)
onsen - onsen : they (past tense)
pe - pey : capital, heaven (King's capital)
per - per : house (the wall surrounding the house)
pur - bur : king
ram - yaram : body, shoulder (body)
rem - erem : to weap, tears (compassion)
ro - ro : mouth (to swallow)
sa - sa : wise, educated, to teach
seh - seh : noble (dignitary)
seked - seggay : a slope
sen - sen : brother
sent - san : sister
set - set : woman (wife)
shopi - sopi : to transform
sity - seety : to prove
sok - sookha : to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
ta - ta : earth, land (inundated earth)
ta tenen - ten : first lands (clay of first humans)
tefnit - tefnit : to spit
tem - tem : to completely stop doing something
tn.r - dener : to remember (to imagine)
top - bop : top of head
twr - twr : libation
uuh - uuf : carry
wer - wer : great, trustworthy
Interesting. Did you isolate the terms from any potential non-African languages? I ask that, because OK could refer to "Ola Kala" which in Greek means, "okay". Is this genetic relation seen in other Niger-Congo languages such as those belong to the Benue-Congo family?
PS: Also, sorry about the long reply that I made to Hammer. Felt that it had to be made, but damn, I didn't think it'd be that long.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
I already told you that you got the so-called African Americans words wrong. Those words aren't African American but plain english and you spelled "SOCK" wrong. It is spelled 'SOC.' The word 'SOC' means to pass to... or to hand to... If someone says "Soc it to me" they are literally saying pass it to me or give it to me or hand it to me. That is where the word 'soccer' comes from. It means a person or something that passes to or give to...in this case it is the soccer ball that is being pass to. And the word O.K. is an acronym for Okay. There are true African American words that comes from Africa like the word 'tote' means to carry; the word 'goober' which became the misnomer "peanut"; the word 'ninny' which means breast.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
Wally keep posting fake connections of African American words to find some link to ancient egyptian language but it is not there. The word nappy is Germanic and it comes from the word 'nap' which means tightly coiled or wiry. Nappy is an english word Germanic in origin to describe any surface including hair that forms a nap. It is not African American in origin. The word 'Jam' can be either a noun or verb and it has no relation to African American language. Neither do the word 'dig'. These are words that are relatively spoken in the english language and does not come from African-Americans. "Boo-Boo" and "Boo" are slangs used differently by different people and its context gives its meaning. Boo also means to scare or give scare or means to frighten or be frighten. BooBoo can mean buttocks. It depends how the individual use it.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I won't argue with someone who doesn't know basic linguistic principles or history. We've given you the resources and this has been covered already. So this is my last post on this aspect of the discussion.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
...Bou is not traceable to an African language??? Look carefully at the first entry, the Coptic equivalent would be 'Bou' - right there in Mdu Ntr!
In West Africa 'Boubou' retains its meaning in the sense that the Boubou garment is "magnificent, dazzling, glamorous..." --This has already been remarked upon by a poster on this topic...
BOO; BOO BOO (COPTIC - BOU BOU)
You have also inadvertently been sidetracked by the rantings of bettyboo who is obviously debating with herself! The word is 'Napy' and NOT 'nap'; you swallowed the bait...
NAPY (npy;nwpy - napy)
... Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I won't argue with someone who doesn't know basic linguistic principles or history. We've given you the resources and this has been covered already. So this is my last post on this aspect of the discussion.
I feel the same. What is the sense of arguing with an afronut who thinks everything must be or has to be of African origin even the simplest forms of the english language. You people keep stretching.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
WEST AFRICAN BOUBOU
MDU NTR: BOUBOU = SPLENDOUR
ENGLISH: SPLENDOUR =
--luster: a quality that outshines the usual
--magnificence: the quality of being magnificent or splendid or grand
--Great light, luster or brilliance
--great beauty or fineness
--is the condition of being brilliant or impressive.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
THE MDU NTR IS THE WORLD'S OLDEST RECORDED LANGUAGE KNOWN TO MANKIND. Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
When a mukala (An African-American) calls their significant other their "boo," it is just another form of the word "baby" like that's my baby. More women say this than men. It is short of a reduplication of "boo boo."
Some will say "baby boo" or "boo bear" and it is in relation to the affection and love a mother would have for her child as this is the "baby" language spoken to infants. This term has nothing to do with being shiny or brilliant. This is not an Egyptian cognate.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Does boo have any historical continuity in the USA black community or is it a recent intro?
I don't think boo has any sensible cognate in any parts of Africa that the majority of BAs hail from, or if it does I haven't seen any presentation of actual word and usage derivation.
Current slang should not be interpretted as an actual Africanism. So-called Ebonics, though an English variant used by blacks, does not have the status or connected relationship to an African language as does Gullah or Pidjin or the like, does it?.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I don't think so. Irish are and always have been white both in the USA and in the British Isles. One white group oppressing another doesn't make the oppressed one any less white than the one doing the oppressing.
There is no historical unity of struggle involving Africans and Irish in any of the Americas. The Irish when able to have kept themselves aloof from the Africans forming Red Leg communities where despite their poverty and illiteracy proudly proclaimed a superiority to blacks because as Irish they were white.
I am in agreement with you about the Greeks and Italians. In a sense, Greeks are "Arabs in pants." There is much the two share in cuisine and music. Many Italians, though recognizing themselves as "Caucasian" in the USA sense of the term, will say "I'm not white I'm Italian." Perhaps this remains from imperial Rome where they distinguished themselves from the lighter barbarians to their north and the darker folk south of the Mediterranean. See Aristotle, Martial, and Manilius.
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01:
... the Irish. The last shared a history of struggle with Blacks, and only became "white" recently. However the Irish were never suggested to have a high racial proximity with Blacks.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote: Asar wrote: When a mukala (An African-American) calls their significant other their "boo," it is just another form of the word "baby" like that's my baby. More women say this than men. It is short of a reduplication of "boo boo." Some will say "baby boo" or "boo bear" and it is in relation to the affection and love a mother would have for her child as this is the "baby" language spoken to infants. This term has nothing to do with being shiny or brilliant. This is not an Egyptian cognate.
...you have just provided additional evidence that it is a Mdu Ntr cognate...thanks...
COGNATE(S): --IN LINGUISTICS ARE WORDS THAT HAVE A COMMON ETYMOLOGICAL ORIGIN --WORDS WITH A COMMON ANCESTOR --A WORD RELATED TO ANOTHER WORD IN ORIGIN AND/OR MEANING
THE MDU NTR IS THE WORLD'S OLDEST RECORDED LANGUAGE KNOWN TO MANKIND. EX: THE WORD O.K. (CORRECT, RIGHT) OCCURS IN THE MDU NTR, AND IS THEREFORE, THE OLDEST/FIRST RECORDING OF THIS WORD IN HUMAN LANGUAGES - THUS, THE ETYMOLOGY OF O.K. IS MDU NTR - SIMPLE...
BW (BWBW) = BOU (BOUBOU)
BOU: TO REGARD WITH WONDER AND DELIGHT; TO LOOK UPON WITH AN ELEVATED FEELING OF PLEASURE, AS SOMETHING WHICH CALLS OUT APPROBATION, ESTEEM, LOVE OR REVERENCE
Posted by Meti Sutn Anu (Member # 4547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Zar in Egypt and in America
quote: ausar wrote; Zar rituals are mostly practiced in lower class Sai'idi and Baladi communities throughout Egypt. The reason why many are practiced is either to heal or caste out evil spirits.
Most of the major participants are females. Very few males lead these ceremonies,and it tends to be an outlet for women in a male dominated society.
If you are at all familiar with Voodoo or Voudum, you know what Zar is...
quote: "Zar, in the sense of possession, is usually, though not exclusively, inherited. It is also contagious and may strike at any time. Diriye Abdullahi, a native of Somalia, says that the zar is basically a dance of spirits, or a religious dance - kind of leftover from the old African deities, a variant of what we describe in the west as "voodoo". The old African deities were headed by two figures; Azuzar (the male, assoc. with Osiris) and Ausitu (the female, known in the west as Isis). Ausitu (or Aysitu in Somalia) is still celebrated and given offerings by pregnant women so that she will provide them with a safe birth. He describes it as a ritual dance which is mostly observed by women, especially older women. This corresponds to the practice of older African religions, in which older women were the priestesses. He maintains that younger women, especially unmarried women, are not generally thought to be "worthy of a visit by the spirit of Zar, who chooses domicile or residence in the person who is his choice." Traditionally, women are carriers of the Zar tradition. A Zar is a spirit. Some Ethiopians and Yemenis have their own Zar, like a guide of guardian angel. The dance ritual, Zar, like other traditional healing ceremonies, as for instance practiced by the !Kung of Southern Africa, is done to regain a sense of balance and harmony in one's life and in tandem with the community. The word Zar is thought by some to be a corruption of Jar which in the Cushitic language of the Agaw people is the word for Waaq the sky god. The Rastafarians call god Jah. And Yah is a very old Ancient Egyptian word for God. See also: The Zar: Women's Theatre in the Southern Sudan,"Women's Medicine: Zar Cult in Africa and Beyond, ed. by Ioan Lewis, Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1991
from my own experiences... As an African American, born in (Voodoo) Louisiana... One of the first things you learn as a Black youngster is that when you go to church on Sunday, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO A WOMAN, especially a middle-aged one. When this "zar spirit" hits one of these women (it usually affects several women almost simultaneously), they begin to gesticulate and shout out loud. They then, usually, make their way to the church's aisle where they begin to dance themselves into a trance like frenzy, eventually feinting or becoming rigid, where they have to be fanned and literally carried out of the auditorium. And your biggest fear is that this spirit might also hit you! ...we call this 'the Holy Ghost' in (Voodoo) Louisiana.
The only thing missing is some formalized ritual, which obviously isn't necessary.
and from EW Budge on Ancient Egyptian Voodoo
quote: It was well known in Egypt and the Sudan at a very early period that if a magician obtained some portion of a person's body, e.g., a hair, a paring of a nail, a fragment of skin, or a portion of some efflux from the body, spells could be used upon them which would have the effect of causing grievous harm to that person. --Legends of the Egyptian Gods, EW Budge, p.xxxiv
...and my mama would always make sure that clipped nails or cut hair was always flushed down the toilet!
How interesting i'm Yoruba and my mum would tell me the exact same thing, the same thing happens in Yoruba Mythology.
confirmation - interesting
Posted by Meti Sutn Anu (Member # 4547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies.
As America expanded and took over former French and Spanish colonies Bantu speaking slaves entered the mix.
On what do you base this on Clyde? Why would so called "west" Africans or so called "bantus" be the exclusive people used as slaves?
Clyde do you believe that slavery was based on a phenotype like your white owners have brainwashed you to believe?
We're waiting for your answers Clyde. Don't run away, if you do, it will confirm everyone's suspicions that you are a fake non-degreed scholar.
You know nothing about slavery nor can you read. If you could read you would remember that I said the location of slaves changed over time.
The first slaves came from Northwest Africa, then the Guinea coast, and finally the Gold Coast and Angola. Stupid, Bantu lived in Angola --not the Senegambia--so they would have been the last tribal group to become slaves.
What I am trying to explain to you is that Europeans took slaves from different parts of Africa at different times, As a result, most slaves in the U.S., came from the Senegambia the major area for slaves sold in the U.S., prior to 1800.
After 1800, many slaves sold in Africa were Yoruba or Bantu speakers. American slave traders had "stopped" bringing in slaves at this time directly from Africa, and slaves of Senegambian origin were redistributed in the U.S. through the interstate slaves trade. Most Bantu speakers became "American "slaves after the U.S., got land from the French and Spanish.
Ignorant ass study history.
.
quote:One of the value-adds from this paper is that the authors explored how African Americans related to disparate African populations. The historical records indicate that American slaves arrived disproportionately from the regions to the west of the Bight of Bonny. In other words, black Americans derive predominantly from the non-Bantu populations of West Africa, from Senegal down to Nigeria. This is in contrast to Brazil, where the black population was reputedly of more diverse origin, including many Bantu speakers from Angola as well as West Africans. This study was done 12/23/2009
I don't know if this study helps in this particular thread and I don't know if it has been posted yet. Either which way its a good little read.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...thus:
Mdu Ntr: Bou.i (My.Bou) = "My admiration", "My delight", "My esteemed (one)"... African Americanism: My boo = (see above)
Real world experience A girlfriend of mine had this cat, and she called it "sukari", so I asked her where did she get this name. She looked at me, giddily perplexed, and said "I don't know...I just made it up." So she had, and so she thought. "Sukari" is the Kiswahili word for "sugar" or "sweet" - an appropriate name for a cat. Was this sheer coincidence or something more sublime?
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
@ Wally
Send me an email at asar_imhotep AT yahoo.com. I'm going to send you something.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
How ironic (or should I say hypocritical), you went over board to show how kosher your "black" mesopotamian Jews (who are obviously white) are in terms of a commonality of struggle with blacks, but you don't do the same for white gentile Irish....you Jews are so insidious...
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I don't think so. Irish are and always have been white both in the USA and in the British Isles. One white group oppressing another doesn't make the oppressed one any less white than the one doing the oppressing.
There is no historical unity of struggle involving Africans and Irish in any of the Americas. The Irish when able to have kept themselves aloof from the Africans forming Red Leg communities where despite their poverty and illiteracy proudly proclaimed a superiority to blacks because as Irish they were white.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
I would also like to learn of an African descended family in America that didn't once have an aunt or son or father or mother that has been called or nicknamed Boo, Booboo, Bubba, Boobie, Bootsie. This is a very common and early black American "nickname" that was most definitely derived from the Africans.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: ...I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects...
dana, unlike me, you have the patience of a school teacher; I envy that...
You are questioning this 'pupil' in order to, I suspect, get her to re-examine her concepts...me, I have no patience in dealing with these folk who spew such idiotic nonsense.
a) The English (Germanic) language is barely 1600 years old
b) The Mdu Ntr is at least 7000 years old!
c) To seek a source (etymology) in a 'child' language when the actual source already exists in the 'parent' language is patently absurd!
These are but a few words whose etymology can be traced to Mdu Ntr:
Sir - a title of rank Napy - a lock of Egyptian hair Re - the sun, daylight Sok, Sokh - to pound, beat, strike Sak - bag, sack O.K. - correct, right Jam - to throw up arms/hands in gladness Bou - to shine, be bright Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love BouBou - (see above) BouBou - splendour, magnificent appearance Deg - to see, understand Okre - green pod plant ...
P.S. - My cousin-in-law is nicknamed "Bootsie"
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Yes Wally - I agree with all you said and I also suspect because of the apparently strong connection that Dravidian, African, African American and European scholars have found between Dravidian (Tamil,Telegu, etc.) and African dialects that this language must be, at the very least, 7000 years old with roots in a shared culture.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
@ Wally, you haven't sent me your email address.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with a pile like terrycloth. Brits call diapers nappies. Smooth and nappy are juxtaposable terms.
quote:Woolens are often brushed to raise the ends of the wool fibers in a soft, fluffy nap above the surface of the cloth. Naps range from the lightly brushed surfaces of a flannel to the deep-pile of fleecy coatings. Deep naps are produced by passing the fabric over cylinders covered with fine metal wires and small hooks. These hooks pull fiber ends to the surface to create the nap.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: nap [tertiary entry] Function: noun Etymology: Middle English noppe, from Middle Dutch, flock of wool, nap Date: 15th century : a hairy or downy surface (as on a fabric)
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Bubba and Bootsie aside, thanks for the dope on Boo.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I would also like to learn of an African descended family in America that didn't once have an aunt or son or father or mother that has been called or nicknamed Boo, Booboo, Bubba, Boobie, Bootsie. This is a very common and early black American "nickname" that was most definitely derived from the Africans.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:alTakruri wrote: Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with............
What's with this Nap crap??
The word is "Nappy", not the "follow the yellow brick road" word "Nap"
Its 'formal' etymology is, of course, restricted to Europe:
quote:nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950.
...Oh, really?...and derogatory, my...
Mdu Ntr c2500 - 5000 b.c.
Nebti - plaited hair
Napy - lock of hair
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...The 'formal' etymology is, of course, restricted to Europe:
quote:ray "beam of light," c.1300, from O.Fr. rai (nom. rais) "ray, spoke," from L. radius "ray, spoke, staff, rod" (see radius). Not common before 17c.; of the sun, usually in reference to heat
Mdu Ntr c2500 - 5000 b.c. Re (ray) - the sun, daylight
quote:sir c.1300, title of honor of a knight or baronet (until 17c. also a title of priests), variant of sire, originally used only in unstressed position. Generalized as a respectful form of address by mid-14c.; used as a salutation at the beginning of letters from early 15c.
Mdu Ntr c2500 - 5000 b.c. Sir - a title of rank
Ah, the exception which proves the rule, this one eked out all the way back to Africa - Semitic - Hebrew...
quote:sack "large bag," O.E. sacc (W.Saxon), sec (Mercian), sæc (Old Kentish) "large cloth bag," also "sackcloth," from P.Gmc. *sakkiz (cf. M.Du. sak, O.H.G. sac, O.N. sekkr, but Goth. sakkus probably is directly from Gk.), an early borrowing from L. saccus (cf. O.Fr. sac, Sp. saco, It. sacco), from Gk. sakkos, from Semitic (cf. Heb. saq "sack").
Mdu Ntr c2500 - 5000 b.c. Sak - bag, sack
...
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Yellow brick road? You better leave that poppy s h i t alone son
But on the for real side, Dana asked about nap so I dug it up for her.
Now as for you, did you read your own supplied definition of nappy where it says nappy derives from nap.
Sheesh, pay a little attention (to yourself even).
And me, I love my nappy, notty, kinky, coily, wooly, hair. And describing it as what it is will never be deragatory as long as I love myself and the way nature blessed me with hair of the helix. I reject the idea that Euros label all to do with my phenotypical features as deragatory or bad. I don't seek their approval or kowtow to their value system. Too bad for those of you who do. No crap just serious nap.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:alTakruri wrote: Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with pile ...
What's with this Nap crap??
The word is "Nappy", not the "follow the yellow brick road" word "Nap"
Its 'formal' etymology is, of course, restricted to Europe:
quote:nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950.
...Oh, really?...and derogatory, my...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...of course I read and included this rote use of 'nap' in this standard etymology definition...I regard this in the same manner in which I regard 'ray' being derived from O.Fr 'Rais' (incomplete, often questionable)...
Language, like DNA, is an effective research tool that can be used to explain human origins. At least one linguist has suggested that, using the standard set of commonly used source words, it would be possible to trace the human language to its original source. This, of course, is possible but NOT if one restricts this study to Europe, with the north Mediterranean being the limit of research...it would suffer the same flaws suffered by DNA research - ideological coloring... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
PLEASE STUDY THIS...
quote:BABE LATE 14c, SHORT FOR BABAN (EARLY 13c), WHICH PROBABLY IS IMITATIVE OF BABY TALK, HOWEVER IN MANY LANGUAGES THE COGNATE WORD MEANS "OLD WOMAN", SUPERSEDED BY BABY
BABY - FIRST BORN (SON OF OSIRIS, THE GREAT ANCESTOR; NTERWER)
...MOVES TO EUROPE AND BECOMES IN GREEK BEBON
quote:BABY LATE 14c., BABI, DIM. OF BABAN (SEE BABE)
ALA, ALI, OL, ALAL - HIGH, EXALTED
MDU NTR: ALA_WA = EXALTED ONE
YORUBA: OBAT_ALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY
YORUBA: OLU_WA = OUR GOD
ARABIC: ALLAH = GOD ...
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
If you please, produce the borrowings that show English nap derives from Egyptian napy, not that it in anyway detracts from the fact that nappy from nap is a word most commonly used for the wooly hair of African populations so blessed.
You and some others may be gullible enough to wistfully imagine that suddenly, bam, in the 15th century Germanic speakers adopt a word from directly from Egyptic but I need a bit more than New Age spookism cfedulity.
And really, you need to stop immediately resorting to condescension when addressing me. It makes you not me look like the simple foolish one.
But if you insist on acting flippant I see no need seriously assess your opinion and query its foundation.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...of course I read and included this rote use of 'nap' in this standard etymology definition...I regard this in the same manner in which I regard 'ray' being derived from O.Fr 'Rais' (incomplete, often questionable)...
Language, like DNA, is an effective research tool that can be used to explain human origins. At least one linguist has suggested that, using the standard set of commonly used source words, it would be possible to trace the human language to its original source. This, of course, is possible but NOT if one restricts this study to Europe, with the north Mediterranean being the limit of research...it would suffer the same flaws suffered by DNA research - ideological coloring...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
Here's my original post on the topic of NAPPY:
quote:(from)
Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture.
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...
quote:SIR c1300, TITLE OF HONOR OF A KNIGHT OR BARONET...
SR, SIR, SER ...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: PLEASE STUDY THIS...
quote:BABE LATE 14c, SHORT FOR BABAN (EARLY 13c), WHICH PROBABLY IS IMITATIVE OF BABY TALK, HOWEVER IN MANY LANGUAGES THE COGNATE WORD MEANS "OLD WOMAN", SUPERSEDED BY BABY
BABY - FIRST BORN (SON OF OSIRIS, THE GREAT ANCESTOR; NTERWER)
...MOVES TO EUROPE AND BECOMES IN GREEK BEBON
quote:BABY LATE 14c., BABI, DIM. OF BABAN (SEE BABE)
ALA, ALI, OL, ALAL - HIGH, EXALTED
MDU NTR: ALA_WA = EXALTED ONE
YORUBA: OBAT_ALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY
YORUBA: OLU_WA = OUR GOD
ARABIC: ALLAH = GOD ...
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
As far as I can ascertain BettyBoo was correct in stating American English nappy derives from nap and is Germanic at root.
Unlike Egyptian nepi meaning hair, Germanic nap applies firstly to wool and secondly to those fabrics having pile.
Asar went on to defend his take that nap derives from Niger-Congo though he doesn't state how it entered 15th century Germanic as a word applied to wool as per Merriam-Webster.
Dana saw no meaning to English nap other than an extended doze. The tertiary definition I provided showed where it applied to materials like wool and hence to wooly hair.
If your post of 28 December, 2009 11:05 PM with the ridiculing phrase "follow the yellow brick road" hadn't been in reply to a post of mine then I wouldn't've responded to you.
I don't know who the "some here muddled in Europe" quip is refering to but I don't think Asar, Dana, nor myself deserve such commentary. BettyBoo may be lost in Simon Sez land but we other three have each shown original think and proposed paradigms outside any teachings obtained from Euro institutions.
Now if I took you wrong please accept my apologies. Nonetheless, to strengthen your case it'd be helpful to propose at what time and in what circumstances the Egyptic words entered the Germanic or European lexicons.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
alTakruri...
Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
You haven't proven cognate status because nappy is the adjective form of nap and nap is a characteristic of wool.
Nappy doesn't mean hair. Among other things it describes hair possessing nap.
Nap is to nappy as wool is to wooly as hair is to hairy
A noun can be an adjective in Egyptic. As a noun nepi means hair. As an adjective nepi means hairy.
I'm not talking generalities here. We know there are lingual carryovers from Africa in the languages blacks speak in all the Americas. I'm asking you to realistically trace a specific word's usage through time and space.
So you can produce nothing to show how an ancient Egyptic word shows up a couple of thousand years later (15th century CE) and a couple of thousand miles away (the European Lowlands)? Poof, it just happened like the girl with the cat? And I'm so supposed to present this in discussions elsewhere (where I won't be preaching to the choir) as viable linguistic methodology, study, and research?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
alTakruri,
...you may and probably will continue your spin on a defenseless point by using extended arguments to try and confuse what is essentially simple...
These words are Cognates:
Mdu Ntr: ran = name
Coptic: ran = name
Yoruba: ran = name
and this one is NOT cognate with the above:
Japanese: ran = chaos, revolt
...
African Americanisms such as dig, jam, okra, boo, booboo, nappy, O.K., sock,..., are all cognates with Mdu Ntr...
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
@ Wally, in your Yoruba example in regards to Obatala, it is incorrect. Obatala is three words: OBA + OTA + ALA = king + stone + white light = king of the white light (some say cloth). It is a liturgical term in Ifa that refers to the process of light emerging out of the solidity of primordial matter.
Linguist Modupe Oduyoye argues however that Obatala is really OBA + TALA which means (KING + HIGH) "exalted king." A reflex in Arabic for 'tala' is TALI (high).
You may be quick to say "well in my example for the mdw ntr I have exalted/high." You have to explain how the Mdw Ntr doesn't have the /t/ in initial position but Yoruba and Arabic does.
You would also have to explain how Egyptian "arwarw" somehow matches with Yoruba OLU. The lion is a RW sound (ro in many instances). You have correctly that OLU and ALLAH are cognate, but you have to explain the evolution of the term. OLU is cognate with the old Semitic form AL or ALA. The root is VC (vowel/consonant): AL, EL, OL, IL, etc. Some will say that ALLAH is two words: Al+Ilah (the God).
These are things you have to explain for your renderings to be convincing. Sound alikes don't mean cognates.
Your rendering of RAN in Yoruba and Egyptian is unconvincing because there is no root in Yoruba -rn- to mean "name." Here are the cognates for name in the Yoruba:
Yoruba = Daruko (d-r-k) = to mention Arabic = Dakara (d-k-r) = to mention Assyrian = zikara (z-k-r) = to mention, to name
This is an “Afro-Asiatic” triconsonantal verbal root d-r-k/d-k-r which means to “mention or name.” The Semetic keeps the root in tact, but in Yoruba they “analyze” it – looses it up into “verb-nominal collocation”: daruko “to mention”(da’ ruko “to mention the name of”) –ruko “name” which was then restructured and given legitimate lexical status as a VCVCV noun by the usual non-forming process of vowel prefixing: -ruko > oruko. Oruko is the common Yoruba word for “name.” Not –ran.
The word RAN in Yoruba means to “remember” or “remind.”
Ran mi l’ eti = remind me ran ‘ti = remember ni mi ni ‘ran “remind me” (Ijebu dialect) ni ‘ran “remember” (Ijebu dialect)
Ran doesn’t stand by itself any longer in Yoruba.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: @ Wally, in your Yoruba example in regards to Obatala, it is incorrect...
...and too much "information"; in order to "correct" my paper...?
This is what I wrote:
"YORUBA: OBATALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY"
What is incorrect in this statement? Hint - Nothing...
Yoruba - Ran
According to author J. Olumide Lucas (a Yoruba):
quote: (In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', and according to the context does duty for 'my name' or for 'I call', etc...(and) applies, almost in every detail, to the Yoruba language. Thus, ran-mi in Yoruba means 'send me', 'help me', 'pain me', 'call me', etc., according to the position of the accent on the word ran...--The Religion of the Yorubas
The standard rendering for 'name' in Yoruba is orúkô
----
You also wrote: "the lion is a rw sound"
Both Coptic (contemporary Mdu Ntr) and "Egyptology" disagree with you on this; the lion can be either an 'r' or an 'l' - and with the assistance of the reference language of Coptic, we know that it is 'L' > Coptic "OL" = exalted.
You then write:
"Sound alikes don't mean cognates. "
Where pray tell, in any of my examples, have I ever shown this simpleton's notion? And right after I have just given the example of 'Ran' in Mdu Ntr and 'Ran' in Japanese to demonstrate that words that are spelled alike/sound alike aren't necessarily cognates...Jeez!
...
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Again, when you learn the basics of Linguistics, you will see where Archdeacon Lucas got many things wrong in his work, including the concept of ran-i. Ran means to remember, it is not used for name. I have already demonstrated that.
This is the next book you need to purchase: Yoruba Names: Their structure and their meanings by Modupe Oduyoye. Dr. Lucas was not a linguist. Modupe is and a native speaker.
This is what you quoted in regards to Obatala:
quote: MDU NTR: ALA_WA = EXALTED ONE
YORUBA: OBAT_ALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY
YORUBA: OLU_WA = OUR GOD
ARABIC: ALLAH = GOD
What was incorrect was your association of ALLAH with Yoruba ALA. One means God the other is White Light. We can make an argument that RA, AL and ALA (Yoruba) are cognate based on light. But not TALA and ALLAH without explanation of the /t/ and the fact that ALLAH is AL-Ilah (the God).
Yoruba OLU (lord, master, God) is Cognate with ALA/ALLAH. And OLUWA is "head" and is ORUWO in the Ijebu dialect. The Cognate in Hebrew is 'lwh (God). It does not break down into "our god." It is based off the same root as ORI (head), Ras (Semitic - head), ORISA (head, God), hry (Egyptian, upper, headman).
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Again, when you learn the basics of Linguistics, you will see where Archdeacon Lucas got many things wrong in his work, including the concept of ran-i. Ran means to remember, it is not used for name.....
(A diversion into Yoruba - some relevant notes)
...Hmmm, a Yoruba Doctor, and because he's not a "linguist", he is incapable of explaining his own language?!?
quote:(In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', and according to the context does duty for 'my name' or for 'I call', etc...(and) applies, almost in every detail, to the Yoruba language. Thus, ran-mi in Yoruba means 'send me', 'help me', 'pain me', 'call me', etc., according to the position of the accent on the word ran...--Lucas, The Religion of the Yorubas
a) (In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', 'my name', 'call me', etc.
b) (Yoruba)...ran-mi would also mean 'like me'...
Bee ni, mo ran(like) e(you): Yes, I like you
Mo fe-ran omi: I like water
----
rántí, níran: remember
---- Oluwa, Olu, Ôlörun, Olódùmarè: God
Obatala: King of the White Cloth. In Haiti, Obatala is known as Damballah
Oluwafemi: God loves me
Olufemi: God loves me
Oluwasegun: God has been victorious
----
Mdu Ntr - Olawa: Exalted One
----
Olorun
In Yorùbá mythology, Olorun is the Sky Father (though occasionally androgynous or female), and a god of peace, purity and harmony. He is strongly associated with the color white, and controls everything that is white, such as bones, the brain, and clouds. He is the father of Odudua and Obatala.
...
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
You people are too beside yourselves. The word "Nap" can mean to sleep. In that case it would be an adjective and not a noun, adverb, or verb. The word "Nap" as in knot or to knot is indeed Germanic in origin and is derived from the English language. Nap or nappy means wiry, knotted, tightly coiled, or kinky if used to describe a surface of something.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
BENU - MALE, MAN ...BANU (aka BANTU)= PEOPLE Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Meti Sutn Anu (Member # 4547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: alTakruri...
Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is fromo1950."
The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather then in Germany. We have to remember a lot of American words have an African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words.
Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
Here's my original post on the topic of NAPPY:
quote:(from)
Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture.
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
The word "nap" is Germanic in origin, derivative of the english language you scumbag. The word "Nappy" means the process to form a nap! It is used to described the naps of african hair or a surface that has a nap texture or appearance. It means the same thing as wiry, tightly curled, coiled, or kinky. It is not African in origin.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Meti Sutn Anu:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: alTakruri...
Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is fromo1950."
The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather then in Germany. We have to remember a lot of American words have an African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words.
Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
You afronuts keep pushing it. Majority of all American words have English, Germanic, Latin, Greek origin and little, if any, have African origins. The "opressors" never communicated to the Africans through the means of African words. They spoke their native language to the Africans and it was the Africans who were forced to understand and communicate; it wasn't the other way around. The word 'Nap' is Germanic in origin, derived from the english language and the suffix 'Y' makes it an adjective and/or adverb when it applies to hair. When hair is called "nappy" it just means it has the appearance and texture of a nap or knot.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Meti Sutn Anu wrote: The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather than in Germany. We have to remember that a lot of American words have African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words. Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany, yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
Wally, please clarify what your position is.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Meti Sutn Anu wrote: The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather than in Germany. We have to remember that a lot of American words have African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words. Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany, yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
Mdu Ntr Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
...but human vocabulary does not have to necessarily come directly to America by Africans, but can come indirectly...
Mdu Ntr
Baby; Babe, Babe, Baby, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek;
The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
English - 14 century
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superceded by Baby - representing a dialectical transformation back into its original form!
You're still pushing it. 'Nappy' isn't an African-American word. African Americans don't have their own language since they speak english. It was the British and slave holders who called black slaves hair 'nappy.' African-Americans wouldn't call their hair nappy because they take offense to it because it is a word that was used in a derogatory manner by whites and slave holders. Secondly, 'nappy' is never used to describe braids or a braid. I already told you that the word is Germanic in origin, a derivative of the English language that means to form a knot or to knot or to have a nap shape or nap feel. Black people never came up with the word nappy to describe their hair. It comes from the slave holders and white racists to describe black people's hair. It is just another English word so get over it. The connection is not there.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
There is only one person here "pushing it".
Black people in America use the word "naps" and "nappy" to describe their hair ALL OF THE TIME - Just as they use other words other people aren't supposed to use. The word nappy basically means someone with hair that is in KNOTS! PERIOD!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
I am guessing you have the evidence that the word "nap" means "knot" in the "Germanic" language group. Since you do, it would be great if you would provide the evidence so the question can be settled for those of us here on this blog.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
I am guessing you have the evidence that the word "nap" means "knot" in the "Germanic" language group. Since you do, it would be great if you would provide the evidence so the question can be settled for those of us here on this blog.
Bytch shut the fvck up! The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin, deriving from the English word Nap as to mean to knot or a knot surface or texture. KINKY is Germanic deriving from Swedish language. What the fvck is up with you gorillas. Nappy is NOT an African-American word. There are no African-American words and African-Americans find the word "Nappy" offensive and insulting. It is believed to be derogative amongst the African American community you fvcking ape bytch. Here are three African-American words for you: Goober, Ninny, Tote. I hope you are happy.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. For the last time the word nap as it applies to hair simply means the texture or appearance of a NAP you fvcking gorilla. The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin deriving from the English language. Hair is not the only thing that can be describe as a NAP or Nappy...so can a Carpet or any other surface that has a 'nap' appearance. Black hair is indeed fvcking Knotty. Black hair forms Knots and it's appearance is like a bunch of Naps or Knots and it feels that way! You can describe hair in various ways such as straight, nappy, curly, wavy, Kinky, Knotty, Frizzy, thick, thin, red, black, grey, white, blonde, bushy, poofy, limp, etc...The word NAP or NAPPY fits right in with any other adjective as it describes hair. You can find the etymology yourself. It is so easy.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. You know exactly what the word knot means. It describes the hair texture of the majority of blacks of African descent. Shut the fvck up with your "etymological" evidence since it doesn't make you sound any smarter. Look it up yourself. They evidence is not hard to find.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
^ ma'm, you are not a linguist, historian or even a rational person, you believe in the magical tales of the Bible for god sake! Go get yourself an education, and I mean a real one not the one you get at Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson's university. Then you'll understand what "etymological evidence" entails.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Keep it civil, you need not resort to name calling and if you look carefully you'll see you've said nothing about the word nap, its meaning, that I haven't posted just the same (albeit with intelligence and better grammar).
BTW I'm not a gorilla. I'm a red monkey and my nappy hair is soft to the touch just like a downy blanket. Thank G-d for the pure wool on my knotty head.
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. For the last time the word nap as it applies to hair simply means the texture or appearance of a NAP you fvcking gorilla. The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin deriving from the English language. Hair is not the only thing that can be describe as a NAP or Nappy...so can a Carpet or any other surface that has a 'nap' appearance. Black hair is indeed fvcking Knotty. Black hair forms Knots and it's appearance is like a bunch of Naps or Knots and it feels that way! You can describe hair in various ways such as straight, nappy, curly, wavy, Kinky, Knotty, Frizzy, thick, thin, red, black, grey, white, blonde, bushy, poofy, limp, etc...The word NAP or NAPPY fits right in with any other adjective as it describes hair. You can find the etymology yourself. It is so easy.
Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with a pile like terrycloth. Brits call diapers nappies. Smooth and nappy are juxtaposable terms.
quote:Woolens are often brushed to raise the ends of the wool fibers in a soft, fluffy nap above the surface of the cloth. Naps range from the lightly brushed surfaces of a flannel to the deep-pile of fleecy coatings. Deep naps are produced by passing the fabric over cylinders covered with fine metal wires and small hooks. These hooks pull fiber ends to the surface to create the nap.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: nap [tertiary entry] Function: noun Etymology: Middle English noppe, from Middle Dutch, flock of wool, nap Date: 15th century : a hairy or downy surface (as on a fabric)
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
interesting:
Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA variation in Africa: evidence for sex-biased demographic processes. Division of Biotechnology, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA.
To investigate associations between genetic, linguistic, and geographic variation in Africa, we type 50 Y chromosome SNPs in 1122 individuals from 40 populations representing African geographic and linguistic diversity. We compare these patterns of variation with those that emerge from a similar analysis of published mtDNA HVS1 sequences from 1918 individuals from 39 African populations. For the Y chromosome, Mantel tests reveal a strong partial correlation between genetic and linguistic distances (r=0.33, P=0.001) and no correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r=-0.08, P>0.10). In contrast, mtDNA variation is weakly correlated with both language (r=0.16, P=0.046) and geography (r=0.17, P=0.035). AMOVA indicates that the amount of paternal among-group variation is much higher when populations are grouped by linguistics (Phi(CT)=0.21) than by geography (Phi(CT)=0.06). Levels of maternal genetic among-group variation are low for both linguistics and geography (Phi(CT)=0.03 and 0.04, respectively). When Bantu speakers are removed from these analyses, the correlation with linguistic variation disappears for the Y chromosome and strengthens for mtDNA. These data suggest that patterns of differentiation and gene flow in Africa have differed for men and women in the recent evolutionary past. We infer that sex-biased rates of admixture and/or language borrowing between expanding Bantu farmers and local hunter-gatherers played an important role in influencing patterns of genetic variation during the spread of African agriculture in the last 4000 years.
Y-chromosomal diversity in Europe is clinal and influenced primarily by geography, rather than by language.
Clinal patterns of autosomal genetic diversity within Europe have been interpreted in previous studies in terms of a Neolithic demic diffusion model for the spread of agriculture; in contrast, studies using mtDNA have traced many founding lineages to the Paleolithic and have not shown strongly clinal variation. We have used 11 human Y-chromosomal biallelic polymorphisms, defining 10 haplogroups, to analyze a sample of 3,616 Y chromosomes belonging to 47 European and circum-European populations. Patterns of geographic differentiation are highly nonrandom, and, when they are assessed using spatial autocorrelation analysis, they show significant clines for five of six haplogroups analyzed. Clines for two haplogroups, representing 45% of the chromosomes, are continentwide and consistent with the demic diffusion hypothesis. Clines for three other haplogroups each have different foci and are more regionally restricted and are likely to reflect distinct population movements, including one from north of the Black Sea. Principal-components analysis suggests that populations are related primarily on the basis of geography, rather than on the basis of linguistic affinity. This is confirmed in Mantel tests, which show a strong and highly significant partial correlation between genetics and geography but a low, nonsignificant partial correlation between genetics and language. Genetic-barrier analysis also indicates the primacy of geography in the shaping of patterns of variation. These patterns retain a strong signal of expansion from the Near East but also suggest that the demographic history of Europe has been complex and influenced by other major population movements, as well as by linguistic and geographic heterogeneities and the effects of drift.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri wrote: ---------------------------- I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead." ----------------------------
What is an "inner African"?
You used the term, you tell us what it means.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
yes actually I do mean an uncombable tangle which is what people of African descent call naps here in America. it is not generally used by Europeans for obvious reasons. It is what we mean when we say "to comb the naps out of ones hair". And no - we dont just use the word nappy for simply kinky or woolly hair. Nappy means African hair with naps in it. It implies something that needs to be untangled.
I guess the black American idea of naps is not the same as what Africans have come to assume it is.
There is, of course, also the possiblity that the European word noppe for wool and the African nap for knot originated in the same place.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
al,
We're waiting................
Why do you continue to avoid the question?
Is it because your eurocentric beliefs have been exposed?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
dana,
What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about...
SENSEN
quote: Sen-Sen was to the 19th century what breath mints are to our time. Any country store worth its salt, prominently displayed a box of the handy little packets within easy reach of its customers. The origin of the name Sen-Sen is apparently lost to history. In all the documents that were received at the sale of the company, none mentioned how it’s name originally came about. In Japan "sen-sen" means glistening, shiny or bright, but there is no documentation to indicate any connection between these meanings and the product.
...Seemingly unaware of this evidence...
SENSEN: BAD BREATH, ALSO TO BREATHE
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
What is your map trying to say? It just has a bunch of countries on it. You need to clarify what you are trying to convey.
Wally, please clarify what your position is.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...You must first learn the difference between complimentary and contradictory ; and primary and sole... A Reading comprehension course might help you also...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: NORTHWEST AFRICA TO THE GULF OF GUINEA - A PRIMARY SOURCE FOR THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE TO THE UNITED STATES...
*Fulani are Pel from Nigerien areas & Fulbe are Pel from Senegambian areas...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
So Wally are you saying that berbers, kabyles, arabs, and other so called "non-blacks" from the nations of Morocco, Algeria, Mauritania, and Tunisia were brought to the americas as slaves?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: dana,
What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about...
SENSEN
quote: Sen-Sen was to the 19th century what breath mints are to our time. Any country store worth its salt, prominently displayed a box of the handy little packets within easy reach of its customers. The origin of the name Sen-Sen is apparently lost to history. In all the documents that were received at the sale of the company, none mentioned how it’s name originally came about. In Japan "sen-sen" means glistening, shiny or bright, but there is no documentation to indicate any connection between these meanings and the product.
...Seemingly unaware of this evidence...
SENSEN: BAD BREATH, ALSO TO BREATHE
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Yes - actually I never heard anything about the word "Nap" being used for "fuzzy" or "wool" in early American literature, but I guess its a possibility. I think the best way to determine where it came from is looking at old slave narratives and writings of white Americans.
I would think though that since as late as the 19th century blacks made up from 60-80 percent of some southern states that there should be many native African words still in use among us, not the least of which would be "nappy".
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I have to reconsider the etymology of the term "boo" and consider an African origin for the term. However, I still have not found evidence of this term traceable to Ancient Egyptian as argued by Wally. Wally argues the following:
The term "bo" (boo) is traceable to the Temne and Vai languages which means a "friend: informal address to an equal." West African and Caribbean English bo, ba.
There is another term "booboo" which derives from the Bantu mbuku, meaning "stupid, blundering act; error, blunder." This definitely is not a term of endearmeant.
Neither term is traceable to a root meaning "to shine" which renders the Egyptian/kiKala (African-American English) connection in the realm of folk etymology.
For renderings of "bo" see David Dalby, "The African Element in Black English" in Thomas Kochman, ed, Rappin and Stylin Out: Communication in Urban Black America pg 177
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:dana wrote: Yes - actually I never heard anything about the word "Nap" being used for "fuzzy" or "wool" in early American literature, but I guess its a possibility. I think the best way to determine where it came from is looking at old slave narratives and writings of white Americans.
I would think though that since as late as the 19th century blacks made up from 60-80 percent of some southern states that there should be many native African words still in use among us, not the least of which would be "nappy".
...yes, and note the convergence of Nappy...
Ex:1
quote:Nappy From nap + -y. Adjective nappy (comparative nappier, superlative nappiest) Positive: nappy Comparative: nappier Superlative: nappiest 1. Having a nap (of cloth etc.). 2. (US, slang) Of hair: tightly curled or twisted; frizzy (occasionally specifically in reference to Blacks' textured hair).
Ex:2
quote: Adjectives such as "firm", "kinky", "nappy" or "spiralled" are often used to describe natural afro-textured hair in Western societies.
Ex:3
quote:Nappy 2. (adj) crisp, frizzly, frizzy, kinky, nappy (of hair) in small tight curls
...with Mdu Ntr - Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Asar, You have to follow the flow of this thread...I later added this:
BW (BWBW) = BOU (BOUBOU)
BOU (BOUBOU): TO REGARD WITH WONDER AND DELIGHT; TO LOOK UPON WITH AN ELEVATED FEELING OF PLEASURE, AS SOMETHING WHICH CALLS OUT APPROBATION, ESTEEM, LOVE OR REVERENCE
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I'm sorry, but I can't accept this as a cognate. They are not the same terms. Sorry, it is just not!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I wrote nothing in ignorance nor is the Egyptic word for hair something new or unknown to me.
What we are dealing with hear is the verifiable etymology and use of the Germanic word noppe as a characteristic of hair and not a word that means hair.
Do Black Americans get a nappy cut or a hair cut? Do their women get nappy weaves or hair weaves? Do they have nappy pomade or hair pomade?
Nappy is a kind of hair, not hair itself.
If I'm so sublimely ignorant than what does that make you who invest time and effort to mock me? If I were ignorant you'd habe no need to try to challenge my words, their ignorance would make them worthless and not heeded by anyone.
You're the ignoramus not me.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Why is it impossible for people here to discuss matters and disagree without personal attacks?
Is there really that much ego attachment to the matters being examined that alternative takes must be put down by bad mouthing the people who put them up for examination?
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Why is it impossible for people here to discuss matters and disagree without personal attacks?
Is there really that much ego attachment to the matters being examined that alternative takes must be put down by bad mouthing the people who put them up for examination?
Honestly I think it boils down to Ego. People on this site have degraded ES to a point where topics and arguments range from Christ Hair to Persian Afros. Its really sad becuase ES was a good resourse...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...alTakruri...
sublime ignorance is NOT a pejorative, it is merely a descriptive term...
Sublime: elevated or lofty in thought, language, etc.
Ignorance: unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge of a particular subject (in this case the Mdu Ntr word - Napy)
I'm confident that until I pointed out the existence of this word that most people were ignorant of its usage, which is definitely not a put down; it is merely an accurate use of the English language, that's all...
( If I had a dime for all of the things that ( exist in life that I am ignorant of, ( I would be extremely rich!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I'm sorry, but I can't accept this as a cognate. They are not the same terms. Sorry, it is just not!
...Here's the etymology for a 'favorite' word on this thread:
nap (n.) "downy surface of cloth," 1440, - English
noppe "nap, tuft of wool," (from M.Du. or M.L.G. probably introduced by Flem. cloth-workers. )
hnappian "to pluck" (Cognate with O.E.)
(ahneopan "pluck off")
niupa "to pinch" (O.Swed.)
dis-hniupan "to tear." (Goth.)
---
...and these words are NOT cognates???
Bou "to look upon with an elevated feeling of love." (Mdu Ntr)
Boo "boyfriend/girlfriend" (African Americanism)
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
To wonder or admire (as given in the dictionaries) is not the same as a boyfriend or girlfriend. They don't even come close. The examples I gave are cognates, the Egyptian is not a cognate. You are just going to have to let it go until you find one.
Yes you can admire a boyfriend or girlfriend, but you can also admire a car or a dance routine. The dance routine or car will never turn into a boyfriend or girlfriend.
I don't have anything else to say here. They aren't cognates and that's that.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Asar wrote: To wonder or admire (as given in the dictionaries) is not the same as a boyfriend or girlfriend. They don't even come close. The examples I gave are cognates, the Egyptian is not a cognate. You are just going to have to let it go until you find one. Yes you can admire a boyfriend or girlfriend, but you can also admire a car or a dance routine. The dance routine or car will never turn into a boyfriend or girlfriend. I don't have anything else to say here. They aren't cognates and that's that.
...well, if you want it to be...
But here's what You also wrote:
"The term "bo" (boo) is traceable to the Temne and Vai languages which means a "friend: informal address to an equal."
----------
I say...And It's not the dictionary that one must go to, it's the Thesaurus!
admire (verb)
Definition: hold in high regard
Synonyms: adore, appreciate, be crazy about, be crazy for, be crazy over, be mad about, be nuts about, be stuck on, be sweet on, be wild about, cherish, delight in, fall for, get high on, glorify, go for, groove on, hail, hold in respect, honor, idolize, laud, look up to, marvel at, moon over, prize, rate highly, respect, revere, take pleasure in, think highly of, treasure, value, venerate, wonder at, worship
-----------
Still you want to insist that "bou" is not the etymology of "boo"; that "to be sweet on" is not, in anyway related to "boyfriend or girlfriend"
C'mon, you have got to be kiddin' me...I hope...
-----------
-hnappian - to pluck is the etymology of nap - downy surface of cloth
-bou - to be sweet on is the etymology of boo - boyfriend or girlfriend
which of the above two examples are more closely matched?
...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Its a simple "Yes" or "No" answer Wally.
Question asked of Wally is below.
quote: are you saying that berbers, kabyles, arabs, and other so called "non-blacks" from the nations of Morocco, Algeria, Mauritania, and Tunisia were brought to the americas as slaves?
Wally, "Yes" or "No"?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
argyle104 wrote: Its a simple "Yes" or "No" answer Wally. Question asked of Wally is below. "are you saying that berbers, kabyles, arabs, and other so called "non-blacks" from the nations of Morocco, Algeria, Mauritania, and Tunisia were brought to the americas as slaves?" Wally, "Yes" or "No"? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer to your 'question' was provided in the opening statement of this topic!
"The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
a) Kaybles, Tuareg both speak Berber dialects; Berber is a linguistic grouping; Berber speakers are multi-ethnics...
b) Moors are expressly Africans from Mauritania and its environs...
c) The majority of Berber speaking slaves were sold to Portugal, but many were also sold to the United States...
d) The Arabs (from Asia) were key merchants in the Slave Trade, preceding the Portuguese, the British, the United States...
e) The Arabs are multi-ethnic and range in color from White to Black...
f) Your use of the term "non-Blacks" in this instance is both simplistic and moronic...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Simplistic: characterized by extreme and often misleading simplicity
Moronic usage: stupid or lacking in good judgment
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Cut the crap Wally. You were refering to me. Sublimely ignorant means the epitome of ignorance. I mean if you want to insult me stand up be a man and just straight up flat out do it.
The thing to do is to address the thought not disrespectfully comment on the thinker.
Otherwise be careful who you classify within a group description and onto who's post you tack your "non-pejorative" pejoratives.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...alTakruri...
sublime ignorance is NOT a pejorative, it is merely a descriptive term...
Sublime: elevated or lofty in thought, language, etc.
Ignorance: unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge of a particular subject (in this case the Mdu Ntr word - Napy)
I'm confident that until I pointed out the existence of this word that most people were ignorant of its usage, which is definitely not a put down; it is merely an accurate use of the English language, that's all...
( If I had a dime for all of the things that ( exist in life that I am ignorant of, ( I would be extremely rich!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Egyptology and Ancient Egypt are two separate forums now. The old Ancient Egypt and Egyptology forum is defunct.
Egyptology forum was supposed to be just for Egyptology topics. Ancient Egypt was for everything else not directly Egypt related.
Ancient Egypt lost moderation and became the morass of sophmoric stupidity it is today because there was no way to control the trollers and racialists who took it over.
Recently it looked as if we were going to reclaim it as regular members began posting non-emotional and non-inflammatory messages. But without troll control Ancient Egypt will not be even a halfway serious or respected forum ever again.
Egyptology is moderated but passively. We have to report incidents because the moderators aren't monitors. It's up to us to keep Egyptology clean. Also, afaik, we can still post Africana here as long as we preface the subject header with OT (Off Topic).
Anyway that's my take on it though I could be mistaken.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Why is it impossible for people here to discuss matters and disagree without personal attacks?
Is there really that much ego attachment to the matters being examined that alternative takes must be put down by bad mouthing the people who put them up for examination?
Honestly I think it boils down to Ego. People on this site have degraded ES to a point where topics and arguments range from Christ Hair to Persian Afros. Its really sad becuase ES was a good resourse...
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The Arabs (from Asia) were key merchants in the Slave Trade, preceding the Portuguese, the British, the United States...
See thread: Debt, credit, and the Zanzibari slave trade
Looking at the gold coast to see how the slave trade worked: The "Gold coast" gained its name because the people were major purchasers of slaves and the Portuguese, acting as middle men in this slave trade, were able to acquire great quantities of gold as profits
Page 198 We learn that the region is estimated to have produced 1/10 of the world supply of gold
Couple centuries later we see a shift where the exact same people who were purchasing slaves were now selling slaves and accepting nothing but gold. In fact many former gold exporting regions began to make it illegal to export gold. The Dutch were the key propagators of the slave trade in the 17th century and this explains the transformation on the "Gold Coast". The Dutch offered the very foundation of the 17th century slave trade "The wealth of Amsterdam was fundamental to the financing of the seventeenth-century slave trade. "
Many slaves were brought in from large distances which is something important to consider. The European demand for slaves is what lead to many of the Jihads to cope with the instability
"The demand for slaves to fill the needs of European colonies in the New World, led Kano more deeply into the slave trade early in the seventeenth century"
Also consider slave imports after 1790 into the United States
Thread "Late 18th and 19th century slave imports into the United States"
quote:For a male slave in 1704, the English were offering merchandise worth nearly three ounces of gold. General William de la Plama wrote in 1704, So that the Negroes seeing this, now pay more attention to the slave trade than the gold trade, as they do better by it. And Director General William Butler of Elmina complained that the gold trade had decreased in volume by 50 percent du to the very heavy payments, which the Negroes receive for their slaves.
Page 200:
By the first two decades of the eighteenth century, the Gold Coast was increasingly identified with the slave trade, while the gold trade had decreased in volume by something like 50 percent. Six years later another report indicated that the gold trade had dwindled to nothing. This transformation was accelerated by the increased demand for slaves from the New World plantations, and higher prices. To the West Africans gold had always been more than just a median of exchange, and they were reluctant to part with it. Also, the king of Dahomey had banned the export of gold from his kingdom, and many traders on the Gold Coast accepted only gold for slaves.
"The transatlantic slave trade: a history" By James A. Rawley, Stephen D. Behrendt
quote: The wealth of Amsterdam was fundamental to the financing of the seventeenth-century slave trade. The Amsterdam chamber of the Dutch company entrusted with the slave trade had four-ninths of the representation. After 1664 it secured the special direction of Curacao, the great slave depot in the Caribbean. Asientos, after their revival in 1662, was customarily backed by Dutch and usually Amsterdam capital. The house of Coymans, which, which for nearly twenty years had a stake in the Asientos, headquartered in Amsterdam. Even the Portuguese who held the asiento at the end of the century negotiated with the Dutch. A number of West India and Afrian companies projected by small European countries found their capital in Amsterdam – The Danish West India Company, the Swedish African Company, and the Brandenburg African Company. As the historian Violet Barbour summed up this matter, “In the second half of the century Amsterdam seems to have been the business headquarters of the slave trade, and contracts for deliveries of Negroes were drawn up there.”
Superiority in shipping also goes far to explain Dutch preeminence in general commerce and in the slave trade. As early as 1600, it is said, The Dutch owned 10,000 ships, and throughout the century they owned most of Northern Europe’s ships. The Dutch possessed high skill in navigation and in the use of charts, and they manned their ships more economically than their rivals. Early in the century they established a local cannon industry for their ships, and in ensuing years made significant technological progress in ordnance, in the Third Anglo-Dutch War (1672-75), they fired their broadsides at the rate of three to one compared with their enemies. A variety of ships and a vast fleet enabled the Dutch to become Europe’s middlemen, builders of a seaborne empire, and leading merchants in the Atlantic slave trade…..
….Besides being the center of capital and shipping, Amsterdam was the great entrepot for Western Europe. To it came the products needed in the slave trade: cloths from many nations, beads, copper, iron, brandy, and tobacco, and numerous other commodities. Slave ships from foreign nations, notably England, often put into Amsterdam in order to acquire wars for the African trade.
quote: Through contact with the Islamic world to the north and east, Kano and the rest of Hausaland already were influenced indirectly by the wider world, indcluding the western world. Kano had served as a center of the slave trade from long before this time, but served mostly north Africa. The demand for slaves to fill the needs of European colonies in the New World, led Kano more deeply into the slave trade early in the seventeenth century. The Hausa themselves never dealt directly with European slavers. Rather, they would go on raiding expeditions to the south, then trade their captives to other peoples south and west of them, who would trade with Europeans on the coast.
quote:But I apprehend, that the neighbourhood of our ships, and the desire of our goods, are motives which often push the rigour of the laws to an extreme, which would not be exacted, if they were left to themselves.
But slaves are the staple article of the traffic; and though a considerable number may have been born near the sea, I believe the bulk of them are brought from far. I have reason to think that some travel more than a thousand miles, before they reach the sea-coast. Whether there may be convicts amongst these like, wise, or what proportion they may bear to those who are taken prisoners in war, it is impossible to know......
....I verily believe, that the far greater part of the wars, in Africa, would cease, if the Europeans would cease to tempt them, by offering goods for slaves. And though they do not bring legions into the field, their wars are bloody. I believe, the captives reserved for sale are fewer than the slain.
I have not sufficient data to warrant calculation. but, I suppose, not less than one hundred thousand slaves are exported, annually, from all parts of Africa, and that more than one-half of these are exported in English bottoms.
If but an equal number are killed in war, and if many of these wars are kindled by the incentive of selling their prisoners; what an annual accumulation of blood must there be, crying against the nations of Europe concerned in this trade, and particularly against our own!
quote:Leo Africanus (early sixteenth century) mentions that the King of Bornu (Chad region) will mount an expedition to capture slaves once a year (1)....
"The raids were multiplied to the point of reaching a total of eighty per year in the early nineteenth century, north-east of Central, according to the Tunisian scholar Mohamed el-Tounsy, who traveled to Darfur and Ouaddaï (now Chad) at this time (2). The percentage of prisoners in relation to the whole population thus continually increases from the seventeenth century and the late nineteenth and "once densely populated districts were reclaimed by the bush" or forest (3).
"The impact of the slave trade on Africa" by Elikia Mbokolo
quote: In the Senegal valley, for example, the attempts by certain monarchs to enslave and sell their own subjects gave rise, at the end of the 17th century, to the Marabout war and the Toubenan movement (from the word tuub, meaning to convert to Islam). Its founder, Nasir al-Din, proclaimed that "God does not permit kings to pillage, kill or enslave their peoples. He appointed them, on the contrary, to preserve their subjects and protect them from their enemies. Peoples were not made for kings, but kings for peoples
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
In the 17th century the African slave trade could not be maintained at such intensity without Dutch capital and merchandise. This is very fundamental to understand. Nor could the African slave trade continue at such an intensity without Globalization. The slave traders themselves make this very clearly that they simply couldn't operate without this capital and merchandise.
"Early Globalization and the Slave Trade" Trips around the world were essential for sustaining slavery by Robert Harms
quote: The demise of the French East India Company in 1706 (it was later resurrected as the Company of the Indies) caused a problem for French slave traders. It was impossible for them to remain competitive in the slave trade without ready access to cowry shells and Indian textiles. So vital was the Asian trade to the slave trade that a consortium of merchants raised over a million livres to start a company to replace the defunct French East India Company. In requesting authorization from the French Council of Commerce, the merchants cited the difficulties they were having in obtaining the products of Asia that were vital for the slave trade. The slave trade could not function successfully, they argued, unless they had direct access to cowry shells and Indian textiles...
William Pitt, The Younger. 1759-1806.
From His Speech On The Abolition Of The Slave-trade . April 2, 1792.
quote: Yes, we give them enough of our intercourse to convey to them the means, and to initiate them in the study, of mutual destruction. We give them just enough of the forms of justice to enable them to add the pretext of legal trials to their other modes of perpetrating the most atrocious iniquity. We give them just enough of European improvements to enable them the more effectually to turn Africa into a ravaged wilderness......
.....Do you think nothing of the ruin and the miseries in which so many other individuals, still remaining in Africa, are involved, in consequence of carrying off so many myriads of people? Do you think nothing of their families which are left behind of the connections which are broken? of the friendships, attachments, and relationships that are burst asunder! Do you think nothing of the miseries in consequence, that are felt from generation to generation? of the privation of that happiness which might be communicated to them by the introduction of civilization, and of mental and moral improvement? A happiness which you withhold them so long as you permit the slave-trade to continue. What do you know of the internal state of Africa? You have carried on a trade to that quarter of the globe from this civilized and enlightened country. but such a trade, that, instead of diffusing either knowledge or wealth, it has been the check to every laudable pursuit. Instead of any fair interchange of commodities; instead of conveying to them, from this highly favored land, any means of improvement; you carry with you that noxious plant by which everything is withered and blasted; under whose shade nothing that is useful or profitable to Africa will ever flourish or take root. Long as that continent has been known to navigators, the extreme line and boundaries of its coasts is all with which Europe is yet become acquainted; while other countries in the same parallel of latitude, through a happier system of intercourse, have reaped the blessings of a mutually beneficial commerce. But as to the whole interior of that continent you are, by your own principles of commerce, as yet entirely shut out: Africa is known to you only in its skirts. Yet here you are able to infuse a poison that spreads its contagious effects from one end of it to the other, which penetrates to its very center, corrupting every part to which it reaches. You there subvert the whole order of nature; you aggravate every natural barbarity, and furnish to every man living on that continent motives for committing, under the name and pretext of commerce, acts of perpetual violence and perfidy
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Cut the crap Wally. You were refering to me. Sublimely ignorant means the epitome of ignorance. I mean if you want to insult me stand up be a man and just straight up flat out do it.
...I was expressly targeting the concepts of Bettyboo, who has consistently interjected her opposition to the African origin of the word "Nappy"; she has also "given" us three words of African origin, to which "us cullud folks should be satisfied wid"...
If you feel that you are within that category for criticism, fine with me, but you are NOT the "center of the universe" of this criticism; being a criticism of a concept and NOT of a person, no matter how you choose to spin what I have said...
quote: What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
I know of no one who has not suffered from sublime ignorance, especially when the new evidence violates their sense of 'reality' :
Objectively, I understand the science that has relegated Pluto to not any longer being a planet...
Subjectively, I mystically still think of Pluto as a planet! - alas, sublime ignorance on my part...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Let us, for a moment, examine the formal, rote example of word origins which we are formally taught, and which are ubiquitous:
(5) the English word sir
( a respectful or formal term of address used to a man ( the distinctive title of a knight or baronet: Sir Walter Scott. ( a title of respect for some notable personage of ancient times: Sir Pandarus of Troy. ( a lord or gentleman: noble sirs and ladies.
(4) derived from the Old French word sire
(3) derived from the Vulgar Latin word senior (older, elderly man, senior)
(2) derived from the Late Latin word senex (aged, old; old man)
(1) derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *sen-
Note that we have never left Europe and that "aged, old" has morphed from an Indo-European root to come to mean "Knight, Baronet, noble, notable..."
When in fact the African word, pre-dating written Indo-European by thousands of years, is direct and all inclusive in definitions:
Mdu Ntr: Sir - prince, chief, nobleman, elder
...Think about it...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...permutations of boo in American English
boo - to startle
boo - to audibly show disapproval
boo - honey, sweety, object of affection, lover (African Americanism)
boo-boo - mistake
boo-boo - infantile expression for feces
boo-boo - honey, sweety, object of affection, lover (African Americanism)
boo-yah - exclamation used in various situations (African Americanism)
ba - quality, character, reputation - related to the following:
bou - to regard with wonder and delight; to look upon with esteem, love, or reverence
boubou - to regard with wonder and delight; to look upon with esteem, love, or reverence
...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Slave Trade & African-American Ancestry
This information comes from Philip D. Curtin's book, The Atlantic Slave Trade, (1969), p. 221. Obviously, this is not the only version available, but Curtin is a heavyweight on the subject (along with W.E.B. DuBois, R.R. Kuczynski, E. Donnan, Davies, H.S. Klein, etc.) and I like the way the data is presented:
PROJECTED EXPORTS OF THAT PORTION OF THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH SLAVE TRADE HAVING IDENTIFIABLE REGION OF COAST ORIGIN IN AFRICA, 1711-1810.
Senegambia (Senegal-Gambia) 5.8% Sierra Leone 3.4% Windward Coast (Ivory Coast) 12.1% Gold Coast (Ghana) 14.4% Bight of Benin (Nigeria) 14.5 Bight of Biafra (Nigeria) 25.1% Central and Southeast Africa (Cameroon- N. Angola) 24.7%
Now I will try to relate the above regions to selected ethnic groups. I've collected this data from a variety of sources, and I can't vouch for all of them. The central question for me is always, "Were these people called by that name during that time in that place?" I don't know how to show the nomadic and semi-nomadic groups, but I included several below anyway.
PROJECTED EXPORTS OF THAT PORTION OF THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH SLAVE TRADE HAVING IDENTIFIABLE REGION OF COAST ORIGIN IN AFRICA, 1711-1810.
Senegambia (Senegal-Gambia) 5.8% Sierra Leone 3.4% Windward Coast (Ivory Coast) 12.1% Gold Coast (Ghana) 14.4% Bight of Benin (Nigeria) 14.5 Bight of Biafra (Nigeria) 25.1% Central and Southeast Africa (Cameroon- N. Angola) 24.7%
My insane insistence that people were trafficked from one end of the continent and brought to the other ceases to seem improbable when one considers that there was already trade going from coast to coast. I think there is good reason to believe that Africans were able to develop some sort of conspiracy to control world trade especially with the world's dependence on African gold. Also consider the fact that most of Africa was a complete mystery to outsiders including a mystery to North Africans. If Africans had a firm hold over the world economy it would seem possible that Europeans, as they developed modern banking and industries and shipping ect., could manipulate the world economy and do great damage to Africa.
We start seeing this happening in the seventeenth century because of the Dutch entrance into the slave trade. This was linked to the development of modern banking. It was a struggle control over the world economy and the massive slave trade was Europe winning. See my previous posts about the Dutch and the gold coast shifting toward the slave trade
I wish I had shown this quote from Basil Davidson earlier. Also remember that a great deal (most?) that were brought into the United States were brought after 1790. They would be even more diverse after that time coming from all over the continent
quote: Some writers have depicted the slave trails reaching right across the continent, plunging their merciless thrust into the most remote corners of the far interior. This certainly happened during the brief and bloody Arab slave trade from Zanzibar in the nineteenth century. Even in earlier times it was now and then the case, captives from inland countries being handled from one set of traders to the next until they were finally delivered to Europeans at the coast. ‘They sold us for money’, recalls the narrative of a West African ex-slave who wrote his memoirs in 1831, ‘and I myself was sold six times over, sometimes for money, sometimes for a gun, sometimes for cloth… It was about half a year from the time I was taken before I saw white people.’
Another memoir tells how a French slaving captain purchased at Cabinda, near the mouth of the Congo river, ‘an African woman who seemed to him pretty familiar with Whites, or at least showed no surprise or fear at sight of them. Struck by this unusual confidence, the slaver asked her the cause of it. She replied that she had already seen White men in another land where the sun rose out of the water instead of hiding itself in the sea, as it does in the Congo. Pointing to the east, she added the words monizi monamu – many moons – on the way.’ This story, adds the writer, appears to confirm what the seventeenth-century Dutch geographer, Olfert Dapper, had said about the slaves of Mozambique being sold in the Congo.
There is nothing improbable about Africans having repeatedly and even regularly traversed the continent from one ocean to the other. From experience at the end of the seventeenth century, the trader James Barbot had already observed that peoples in Angola extended their trade as far eastward as the frontiers of the kingdoms of Mombasa, Kilwa and Sofala, all of which are on the east African coast. Slaves were brought to the Angolan coast, he noted, from ‘150 or 200 leagues up the country’.
‘All that vast number of slaves which the Calabar blacks sell to all European nations’, James uncle, John Barbot, was writing a little earlier of the Niger delta trade, ‘are not their prisoners of war, the greatest part being bought by those people of their inland neighbors, and they also buy them of other nations yet more remote from there.’
quote:Leo Africanus (early sixteenth century) mentions that the King of Bornu (Chad region) will mount an expedition to capture slaves once a year (1)....
"The raids were multiplied to the point of reaching a total of eighty per year in the early nineteenth century, north-east of Central, according to the Tunisian scholar Mohamed el-Tounsy, who traveled to Darfur and Ouaddaï (now Chad) at this time (2). The percentage of prisoners in relation to the whole population thus continually increases from the seventeenth century and the late nineteenth and "once densely populated districts were reclaimed by the bush" or forest (3).
“Dhow chasing in Zanzibar” By George Lydiard Sulivan 1873
quote: ….." To begin with, a definite course is necessary, and is at the same time in some measure difficult, because, as you well know, the greater part of the high land of Abyssinia, inhabited by Christians, is surrounded by a kind of desert, scantily peopled by uncivilized races—half Mohammedan, half nomad—which district is in every way favourable to smuggling, there being several hiding-places which are difficult to watch, and it is especially people belonging to these different, almost independent tribes, who occupy themselves with buying and selling of Abyssinian children, as well as stealing them, and who give profitable help to the smugglers who are engaged in the trade of Galla and negro slaves.
" I have brought before you the slave-trade to the Red Sea, and from there to Arabia, without being able to give any exact account as to the number of slaves who pass through this portion of Abyssinia, it must, however, be considerable, for, notwithstanding the export by routes not under inspection, the Customs of Tigre, Eudarte, Wolkeit, and Wogara, as also from Halai to Gondar, and to there from Wolkait and Eudarte, from the year 1836 to 1855, have brought in the yearly receipt of from 8000 to 10,000 thalers (and there is but little doubt that a like sum is lost to the Regent by the fraud of his employes). The above calculations do not include the Customs receipts on ordinary articles of commerce. Some slaves go from Godscham and its neighbourhood by Matemma to the Sennaar, and from there to Egypt. In Khartoom, the sale of slaves is encouraged by some ill-conditioned, avaricious Europeans. And in Matemma there is actually a European to be found who deals in slaves (?). Formerly some slaves went from Schoo and the Adal to the Arabian seaport of Mocca (Mokka).
" I have given two instances above of punishment to slave-traders, the public execution of which takes place in the market-place. It is to be remarked that these punishments are not on account of the slave-trade, but on account of the theft of Christian children, which perhaps would not take place without the presence of a European friendly to the Abyssinians. The Abyssinian chiefs feel the bitter shame which attaches to the slave-trade, but the demon of avarice makes them put up with what is evil. " The traffic in slaves from the Galla and negro countries has been permitted up to the present time, and was (is ?) allowed because the chiefs willingly saw large sums pour into their treasury. For some years the open trade in slaves has visibly decreased, because guards are placed on the frontier by order of the English Consulate. " The Emperor Theodore—now no longer, very fortunately—forbade the sale of slaves, but this prohibition was only a feigned one to deceive Europe (England P); he not only countenanced it without any feeling of shame, but constantly levied the tax on passing slaves after the issue of this prohibition, and even went so far as himself to point out to caravans of slaves the best bye-roads. One reason of the diminution of the traffic is, that many purchasers will no longer risk their money on account of the prohibitions of other countries, preferring to use it in other equally profitable ways.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Keep in mind a very large number were imported into the United States of 1790 even after it became illegal
quote: MFECANE 1817-1828 More destruction was caused by those whom Shaka defeated, than by his own forces. Such was the case of the Hlubi and the Ngwane. Bereft of all social order, these refugees took to looting and pillaging wherever they went. They reduced the landscape in the Natal and much of the Orange Free State into a wasteland. This period of change became known as the Mfecane, which is said to derive originally from a Zulu word meaning "crushing". For the past ten years the word and ideas behind it have aroused much debate and argument.
Many South African historians now believe that Europeans, and slave traders in particular, played a much larger part in upheaval in the region in the first quarter of the 19th century than was previously thought, and that too much emphasis has been put on Shaka's impact.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: What you don't understand is that the slave trade has shifted from one part of the African coast to another overtime. The vast majority of American slaves came from the Senegambia before 1800. After 1800 due to the internal slave trade these Senegambian people were distributed throughout the early colonies. .
There is no way the population increase 700,000 (1790) to 4,000,000 (1860) came about because of natural growth
Map: Lewis C. Gray History of Agriculture in the Southern United States to 1860 (Washington, D.C., 1933). 652-55
Edit: Look at the interactive map you can see the numbers of slaves in different parts of the United States per year. The slave exporting regions (those exporting slaves to the southwestern States) experienced continued increases in their own slave population. This would not make sense unless they were importing from out of the United States
It is important to know that Brittan had a hand in all these slave trades in Africa and this is how it all worked out. The bellow is only one example. Since Brittan had a hand in all these slave trades it would make sense that those taken to the United States came from all over Africa
"Dahomey and the Dahomans" by Friedrich Forbes Volume 1 1850-1851
quote:These wars are directly and instrumentally the acts of the slave-merchants of Whydah and its neighbouring parts; but have they no higher parties on whom to lay the blame of their actions? are these, the agents of larger houses, the instruments in the hands of parties who have other means of disposing of their goods, to bear the whole blame? Truth is strange but a truth it is, that the slave trade is carried on in Dahomey and the neighbouring kingdoms with British merchandize, and, at Porto Novo, the residence of the monarch of slave dealers, by British shipping direct. I do not mean to say that if British goods were not obtainable, the traffic would cease to exist; but the taste for British goods runs high, and if these could not be purchased with slaves, palm-oil would be manufactured to obtain them.
"Dahomey and the Dahomans" By Fredrick Forbes Vol 2 1850-1851
quote:The amazons now advanced in the same order, and having saluted the king he joined them, and again performed a war dance. They also sang in praise of the liberality of the slave-dealer, who gave them muskets and powder to make war upon innocent neighbors; to enrich himself by supplying the market with slaves. These are the evils to uproot: and yet this very man is directly trading with, and receives these muskets and this powder from, British agents in British shipping.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Is this a response to me? This did not go as much into the long distances of the marches which I was pointing out
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Shared linguistic unity of African languages
Day, sun in African languages (most words here were contributed by Asar Imhotep)
Mdu Ntr - ra, re
Gbin - ra
Hausa - rana
Kono - ra
Ligbi - re
Numu - re
Rendille - orr'ah
Saho-Afa - ayro
Samo - re
Sidamo - arriso
Songhay - ra
Susu - ra
Vai - ra
Yoruba - òrùn
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Now, compare - day, sun - in "Indo-European" languages
Portuguese - dia, sol
Albanian - dita, dielli
Czech - den, slunce
Danish - dag, sol
Dutch - dag, zon
Finnish - päivä, aurinko
French - jour, soleil
German - tag, sonne
Greek - i̱méra, í̱lios
Hindi - dina, sūraja
Hungarian - nap, nap
Irish - lá, grian
Italian - giormo, sole
Russian - denʹ, solntse
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
did you notice the relationship between:
African - ra and the Irish - lá
African - orr'ah and the Finish - aurinko
and then there's also a relationship for 'sun' in
African - re and Portuguese - raios(rays) solares (solar)
...could it be possible that language is a better tool to study social history, evolution, relationships than DNA?
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Boy no this is a Wallyism. He makes connections that have no connection at all. Normally we call it 'just making things up.'
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...more notes...
Mdu Ntr: re - sun, day, daylight
English: ray -"beam of light," c.1300, from O.Fr. rai (nom. rais) "ray, spoke," from L. radius "ray, spoke, staff, rod" (see radius). Not common before 17c.; of the sun, usually in reference to heat
Mdu Ntr: Atum, Atom - A god of Kemet who represented the elemental substance of the world
English: Atom - One of the minute indivisible particles of which according to ancient materialism the universe is composed
[Middle English attome, from Latin atomus, from Greek atomos, indivisible, atom : a-, not; see a-1 + tomos, cutting (from temnein, to cut; see tem- in Indo-European roots).]
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
---The Igbo - a part of the African American ancestral tree...
The oral history of the Igbos also traces their origins to Ancient Egypt.
The Igbo people have been in Africa for thousands of years. They seemed to have settled in their current spots a few thousand years ago. There is abundant evidence that shows that the Igbo people originated from Kemet or the environs of Kemet - The Nile Valley...
A POSSIBLE IGBO TOTEMIC NAME ETYMOLOGY...
GBOU
...AS IN GBOU Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
I was reading an article that was talking about increasing slave raiding in Kenya as early as the 17th century. This is probably connected to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. What needs to be pointed out is that the Portuguese did not have the financial power to carry on this slave trade as Friedrich Forbes pointed out
"A Place Without History" by Brenda Fowler
quote:The Kusimbas hypothesize that for centuries starting around A.D. 1000 the herders, farmers, and foragers of the hinterland traded freely with the people of the Swahili coast, procuring ivory and other items for the growing trade in the Indian Ocean. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement. The hunter-gatherers known as the Waata, respected for their excellent skills in elephant hunting and for the poison arrows they used, almost certainly supplied the caravans with elephant tusks in exchange for trade goods. Kasigau was an economically booming area right on the caravan route of the ivory, trade.
But historical accounts, as well as the Kusimbas' informants, suggest that this ivory trade was later closely linked to the trade in slaves. As demand for slaves increased in the seventeenth century with the coming of the Portuguese, Swahili slave-raiding parties made the land unsafe. The Portuguese exported thousands of slaves from East Africa, but historians have long believed the slave trade did not make a significant impact until the early nineteenth century, when Omani Arabs set up massive labor-intensive spice plantations in Zanzibar, an island off the coast of Tanzania. Records are poor, so estimates of how many people were traded as slaves are controversial. According to the University of Chicago historian Ralph Austen, some 313,000 slaves were exported from East Africa in the nineteenth century.
But the Kusimbas see the dramatic effects of slave raiding as early as the seventeenth century. The farms on the edge of the hills in Tsavo were suddenly abandoned and herders disappeared from the plains. To avoid slave raiders, people retreated to remote places like Mount Kasigau, where they built the fortified rock shelters.
quote: Some writers have depicted the slave trails reaching right across the continent, plunging their merciless thrust into the most remote corners of the far interior. This certainly happened during the brief and bloody Arab slave trade from Zanzibar in the nineteenth century. Even in earlier times it was now and then the case, captives from inland countries being handled from one set of traders to the next until they were finally delivered to Europeans at the coast. ‘They sold us for money’, recalls the narrative of a West African ex-slave who wrote his memoirs in 1831, ‘and I myself was sold six times over, sometimes for money, sometimes for a gun, sometimes for cloth… It was about half a year from the time I was taken before I saw white people.’
Another memoir tells how a French slaving captain purchased at Cabinda, near the mouth of the Congo river, ‘an African woman who seemed to him pretty familiar with Whites, or at least showed no surprise or fear at sight of them. Struck by this unusual confidence, the slaver asked her the cause of it. She replied that she had already seen White men in another land where the sun rose out of the water instead of hiding itself in the sea, as it does in the Congo. Pointing to the east, she added the words monizi monamu – many moons – on the way.’ This story, adds the writer, appears to confirm what the seventeenth-century Dutch geographer, Olfert Dapper, had said about the slaves of Mozambique being sold in the Congo.
There is nothing improbable about Africans having repeatedly and even regularly traversed the continent from one ocean to the other. From experience at the end of the seventeenth century, the trader James Barbot had already observed that peoples in Angola extended their trade as far eastward as the frontiers of the kingdoms of Mombasa, Kilwa and Sofala, all of which are on the east African coast. Slaves were brought to the Angolan coast, he noted, from ‘150 or 200 leagues up the country’.
‘All that vast number of slaves which the Calabar blacks sell to all European nations’, James uncle, John Barbot, was writing a little earlier of the Niger delta trade, ‘are not their prisoners of war, the greatest part being bought by those people of their inland neighbors, and they also buy them of other nations yet more remote from there.’
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
I found a link to the article but it is just the abstract. It is highly ironic because it both shows that there were not strict barriers between people on the Coast and the hinterland but it also shows how a division later developed because of the slave trade . The bellow is only an abstract
quote: But over the past few decades new evidence has emerged suggesting that Swahili culture, while certainly shaped by Arabic immigrants, emerged from and also developed according to indigenous African traditions. The new thinking led Kusimba to reconsider the assumption that the people in the Kenyan interior were somehow separate and disconnected from those along the coast, and excluded from its economy. What, indeed, was going on in the Swahili hinterland and what ties did it have to the coast? These were the questions that sent Kusimba and his wife, Sibel Barut Kusimba, a Northern Illinois University archaeologist, to Tsavo in 1997....
When the Kusimbas asked about the rock shelter on Mount Kasigau, which carbon-dating showed was built about 300 years ago, they had a ready answer: farmers had probably used it to hide their livestock from Masai herders. But one man, an authoritative 82-year-old who had been the village circumciser until he became a born-again Christian, had a different explanation: people used the shelter to escape from Swahili slave raiders.
It was not an answer the Kusimbas expected, but for Chap it had the ring of truth. As a child he had heard stories of Swahili caravans stealing children.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Why do these so called "west" Africans who are direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians not look like the indigenous people who live in Egypt now?
We're waiting Wally..............
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Egyptians did have a presence in these places and People in Egypt came from places all over the world
quote: About 1100 Yusuf of Marocco influenced the Negroes, but Timbuktu (refounded 1213) is said to have received Islam from Egypt. It entered Gao, down the Niger, in 1009; Melli about 1025; and Silla fifteen years later. Between 1085 and 1100 Hume, the first king of Bornu, extended Islam almost to Egypt.
"Mansa Musa, King of Mali" (1312-1337 AD)Myra Wysinger:
quote:Mali was now a power of more than local or even regional significance. Under Mansa Musa, Mali ambassadors were established in Morocco, Egypt, and elsewhere. Mali's capital was visited by North African and Egyptian scholars. On returning from pilgrimage, Musa brought back with him a number of learned men from Egypt. These settled in Mali and Timbuktu. One of them, called as-Saheli, designed new mosques at Gao and Timbuktu, and built a palace for the emperor. The fashion of building houses in brick now began to be popular among wealthy people in the cities of the Western Sudan.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
I think too much emphasis might be placed on Egyptian or "Arab" agency, influences are assumed to go in only one direction. In an old translation Ibn Khaldun only said "showed him a model". This is highly significant because it shows how easy it is to assume that a certain aspect of culture came entirely from somewhere else. Certainly "Western Sudan" and and other places in Africa would have a great deal of influence in Egypt
"Al-Sahili : the historian's myth of architectural technology transfer from North Africa" bySuzan B. Aradeon
quote:Mansa Musa, on his return, conceived the idea of building himself a fine palace. Abu Ishak showed him a model, and erected the edifice, with plaster and all kinds of ornaments, for which he received 12,000 mithkals of gold. Mansa Musa maintained an intimate and friendly correspondence with Sultan Abu-l-Hasan, of Al-Maghreb, and reigned twenty-five years.
quote:Despite the change in political control of West Africa due to the fall of the Ghana Empire and the rise of the Islamic Mali Empire in 1235, control of the gold-salt trade remained the economic lifeline of the region. Merchants established a second major gold-salt trade route northeast across the Sahara that passed through Tunis, and Cairo, and ended in Egypt's interior. This route complimented the traditional Western Sudan--Maghreb--Europe trade route. As the second trade route grew in popularity, Egypt's influence on the Western Sudan grew as well.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters stupiditied:
quote: After 1800, many slaves sold in Africa were Yoruba or Bantu speakers. American slave traders had "stopped" bringing in slaves at this time directly from Africa, and slaves of Senegambian origin were redistributed in the U.S. through the interstate slaves trade. Most Bantu speakers became "American "slaves after the U.S., got land from the French and Spanish.
Clyde, I see why so many posters enjoy debating you. You are so easy to defeat. There is plenty of evidence of people who were brought here as slaves on up through the Civil War.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
markellion,
Its a shame that you use your African obsession as a surrogate in place of getting a date with a flat assed, flat chested wrinkly white woman. LOL!
Well I guess you have to get your orgasms anyway you can. LOL!
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ethiopia and Somalia have little to nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.
You made this statement in another thread but what about the land of Punt where does that come into consideration?
There do seem to have been Egyptians coming to "Western Sudan" and that was Wally's statement:
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks notice how Wally tries to obfusicate the question to avoid answering.
Wally I will make it very, very, very, very easy for you this time so that .
Are you saying that people who looked like the presidents of Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc were brought over to the new world as slaves?
You can't obfusicate the question now Wally. Just answer "Yes" or "No".
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Sorry Wally, but your validity with the Egyptian language is only as good as vocabulary and definitions, everything else thus far has gone into the realm of pseudo-scholarship when you try to attribute almost every English word to Egyptian! Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally we're waiting. It shouldn't be that hard to answer a basic "Yes" or "No" question.
Are you saying that people who looked like the presidents of Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc were brought over to the new world as slaves?
You can't obfusicate the question now Wally. Just answer "Yes" or "No".
Posted by Bob_01 (Member # 15687) on :
"
Are you saying that people who looked like the presidents of Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc were brought over to the new world as slaves?"
Could be. Significant European matrilineal ancestry, that is associated with fair skin, is attributed due to slavery. That's even stressed in rather mainstream literature.
When were "West Africans" a monolithic region? The Hausa, and Fula peoples would be able to fit in well.
And, when were Saudis as fair as Palestinians? Most, even the elites, would fit in with Indians and Pakistanis. Light skin isn't rare in South Asia, so it shouldn't in Saudi Arabia.
PS: I don't think "West Africans" are Nile Valley peoples. The evidence outside linguistics is quite lacking.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Djehuti wrote: Sorry Wally, but your validity with the Egyptian language is only as good as vocabulary and definitions, everything else thus far has gone into the realm of pseudo-scholarship when you try to attribute almost every English word to Egyptian!
Shame on you Djehuti!
I have NEVER tried to attribute "almost every" English word, nor most English words to the Mdu Ntr - that would be absurd; what I think that you're trying to do is to 'unconvince' yourself of the evidence of which I have presented by exaggerating/overstating/distortion of this information:
a) the English language consists of hundreds of thousands of words, how can the etymological validation of several English words constitute almost every...
b) there is no scientific evidence to support the 'romantic' notion that originally Humankind existed everywhere at the same time...thus...
c)
quote:...it would be most helpful to have a systematic study of the roots that passed from Black languages (Egyptian and others) to Indo-European languages throughout the period of their contact...
- Diop, African Origin...p116 He then provides examples of this principle.
d) I have emulated Diop's methodology by providing further examples which provide additional evidence of this process...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Let us, for a moment, examine the formal, rote example of word origins which we are formally taught, and which are ubiquitous:
(5) the English word sir
( a respectful or formal term of address used to a man ( the distinctive title of a knight or baronet: Sir Walter Scott. ( a title of respect for some notable personage of ancient times: Sir Pandarus of Troy. ( a lord or gentleman: noble sirs and ladies.
(4) derived from the Old French word sire
(3) derived from the Vulgar Latin word senior (older, elderly man, senior)
(2) derived from the Late Latin word senex (aged, old; old man)
(1) derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *sen-
Note that we have never left Europe and that "aged, old" has morphed from an Indo-European root to come to mean "Knight, Baronet, noble, notable..."
When in fact the African word, pre-dating written Indo-European by thousands of years, is direct and all inclusive in definitions:
Mdu Ntr: Sir - prince, chief, nobleman, elder
...Think about it...
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Wally it seems like your ignoring all the trade connections and other intimate connections that linked distant places together. These concretions were so close that many scholars actually thought that the Nile spread all over Africa. This is important because it can explain the sharing of different aspects of culture ect.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
The African Americans are partially descended from Ancient Egyptians. People from the Nile Region fled that area to escape incoming Assyrian, Greek, Roman and later Arab invaders. Several West African tribes say they came from the East.
We have genetic proof that many from West Central Africa are similar to Nile Valley Africans.
There is the linguistic similarity between Chadic, Tamasheq and Ancient Egyptian, and Nilo-Saharan. Songhay is Nilo-Saharan like Nubian.
There are a host of other correspondencies such as the Was sceptre among the Fulani or the K2/T Y chromosome and R V88 in Cameroon and Black America.
The Bible hints and Biblical scholarship points to a Black Egypt as well as Euro Anthropologists describing a Black Egypt in the 1800s while Black America was enslaved.
The question for me is not are we related? or are the AEs Black?
Now, I want to know what are the connections and what is the ancient knowledge.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Most of Egyptian presence in "West Africa" was NOT because of Egyptians fleeing because people from all over Africa also came to Egypt
Posted by Bob_01 (Member # 15687) on :
^ Most "Egyptians" remained in Egypt.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01: ^ Most "Egyptians" remained in Egypt.
How do you know?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Because historical and archaeological evidence shows that was indeed the case, while there is no evidence to suggest the contrary-- that some mass exodus took place from Egypt to West Africa or other parts of Africa!!
Ironically enough, many racist Western scholars held a similar theory to attribute the many cultural similarities between Egypt and Sub-Sahara only that their claim was some wide expansion of "Hamitic Cacasoids"!
Why can't people accept that the many similarities between Egypt and West Africa are due to COMMON AFRICAN ORIGINS that go back perhaps since the dawn of humanity and but definitely as recent as the wet Sahara.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
Why do people keep talking as if there was not continual contact? Why are people ignoring the long distance interactions?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by markellion: Wally it seems like your ignoring all the trade connections and other intimate connections that linked distant places together. These concretions were so close that many scholars actually thought that the Nile spread all over Africa. This is important because it can explain the sharing of different aspects of culture ect.
Please re-read this entire thread...I have demonstrated the Pan-African trade/travel routes during antiquity, as well as cultural and other characteristics in order to prove my thesis...
...ah, I know you're not going to, so...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ANCIENT HIGHWAYS FROM THE NILE VALLEY TO WEST AFRICA; < 3000 BCE
Kemet was connected with the lands to the south by three main routes:
1. Darb el-Arbeen
The Forty Days’ Road links Asyut in the Nile Valley to El Fasher in the Dar-Fur Province of Sudan, a journey of 1,082 miles (1,721 km). It was the shortest and safest distance to travel into western Africa. The route was strung along several green and lush oases such as El Kharga. Dozens of towns, forts, and way stations spread over the depression floor.
From El Fasher, another route led west through Dar-Fur, toward Lake Chad, ending in the area of Kano (northern Nigeria), at the upper reaches of the Niger River Basin.
2. Sunt (Elephantine) Road
It began at Sunt (Aswan), and went to El Fasher in Dar-Fur, by way of the oases of Selima and Bir Natrum. Sunt (Elephantine) Road also branched off to Semna West, where the caravans and expeditions transferred to ships in order to continue the journey to beyond the trading post established at Kerma, above the Third Cataract. In the same way, protective escorts and merchandise bound for Kemet from the south disembarked at Semna, where the fortress of Semna South was built (during the Middle Kingdom) to protect the travelers.
During the time of the New Kingdom (1550-1070 BCE), this highway was in continuous use all the way throughout the Roman Era, as many inscriptions on the Rock of Offerings at Sunt(Elephantine) testify.
3. Nile Valley to The Red Sea
There were also several trade routes to the Red Sea from the Nile Valley, which allowed trade with Asian countries. Some of these ports along the Red Sea were: Suakin, Massawa, and Zeila.
Other routes led south from the Nile Valley towns of Asyut, Qus, Sunt (Aswan), and Dongola, via the oases of Kharga, Dakhla, and Dunqul, to Kufra, Dar-Fur (western Sudan), and Kordofan.
Another route led from the western oases of Kemet to Bilma and Gao, but this seems to have fallen out of use by the 10th century.
In Sudan, the main transversal route, running from east to west, started from Suakin, to Sennar or Qerri, and continued across Kordofan to Darfur and on to the countries in West and Central Africa.
The whole African continent was known to the people of Kemet, as confirmed by Herodotus, who reported that Necho, King of Kemet, c. 600 BCE, sent a Kememou ship with Phoenician sailors to circumnavigate Africa, and that they returned safely and reported of their endeavor.
How deep and far inside Africa did they travel? Many of the names of places, in the Ancient Kememou records, are not recognizable, but the time it took to travel, along with the list of exports, indicate regions at least as far as the Niger River and the Ethiopian highlands. Prince Herkhuf, one of the greatest of the caravan masters, spent 7-8 months on each of his three recorded trade missions, during the reign of King Merenra (2255-2246 BCE).
by Moustafa Gadalla
(Note: I replaced "Egypt" with "Kemet"...)
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:"For too long, social and political commentators have talked and written as though Africa lies outside the main stream of world historical development--a separate entity to which the social, economic and political patterns of the world do not apply. " - Kwame Nkrumah - Class Struggle in Africa
These distortions can be seen everywhere, and on every topic, including even this one:
1) the migrations of European tribes, their formations into ethnic groups and nationalities, are presented matter of factly and calmly accepted as such. i.e., http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MA/GERMANS.HTM
2) in discussing African migrations, we suddenly shift to some amazing distortions that simply defy common sense and logic -
-- a) 'Egyptians remained in Egypt'; of course the Slavs, Goths, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Greeks, did not remain in their homelands...
--b) 'there is no evidence of a mass exodus from Egypt to West Africa'; now we're in the Bible! and what are described in Europe as migrations, in Africa it suddenly has to become an 'exodus' or of Africans 'fleeing' - Africans, perhaps the most mobile of groups on the planet, can only move from a spot in order 'to flee' an oppression, nee exodus...
3) add nauseum
---
Ancient Egypt was a Pan-African state; a collective of African ethnicities who were drawn to this land due to the similar enticements which would lead others to migrate to Rome, to England, and to America...
Ancient Egypt was held together by culture and the unifying lingua franca of the Mdu Ntr...
And like in Ancient Ghana, Songhai...Africans came freely from and left freely to other parts of the Continent; this social pattern exists to this day.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote:
quote: The African Americans are partially descended from Ancient Egyptians. People from the Nile Region fled that area to escape incoming Assyrian, Greek, Roman and later Arab invaders. Several West African tribes say they came from the East.
We have genetic proof that many from West Central Africa are similar to Nile Valley Africans.
We're all waiting for you to define "west" Africa. What are the nations that make up "west" Africa?
Are Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisi in "west" Africa?
Until you answer the above you have proven yourself to be just another uneducated loon who does nothing but make unscholarly unsubstantiated claims.
We're waiting...........
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti aka "Puppy Chow" wrote: --------------------------------- Why can't people accept that the many similarities between Egypt and West Africa are due to COMMON AFRICAN ORIGINS that go back perhaps since the dawn of humanity and but definitely as recent as the wet Sahara. ---------------------------------
Probably because they have the same mentality such as you who has an insatiable desire to equate "west" Africans as slaves.
Its funny how you never back up your emotional claims with any non-racialist facts.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Its funny how you continue to avoid answering the question that has been asked of you. Its almost as if you are ashamed to admit that you believe in the eurocentric doctrine that only people who are considered "negroid" were slaves.
Which is why you are creating these imbecillic myths about people migrating from Ancient Egypt to so called "west" Africa. Where they became so called "negroid" and were used as slaves.
Damn Wally you need to see a shrink.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
---The Igbo - a part of the African American ancestral tree...
The oral history of the Igbos also traces their origins to Ancient Egypt.
The Igbo people have been in Africa for thousands of years. They seemed to have settled in their current spots a few thousand years ago. There is abundant evidence that shows that the Igbo people originated from Kemet or the environs of Kemet - The Nile Valley...
A POSSIBLE IGBO TOTEMIC NAME ETYMOLOGY...
GBOU
...AS IN GBOU
some other theories on the etymology of 'Igbo'...
quote:There are several theories regarding the etymology of the word Igbo. It is presumed that it has Sudanic origin, derived from the verb gboo.
quote:"Igbo" is commonly presumed to mean "the people." The root -bo is judged to be of Sudanic origin; some scholars think that the word is derived from the verb gboo and therefore has connotations of "to protect," "to shelter," or "to prevent"—hence the notion of a protected people or a community of peace.
My contention is that the names of African emigrants from the Nile Valley Civilizations are derived from their ancient totemic gods and of which they became conceptualized into 'the people':
Example from the Mdu Ntr:
rome - Egyptian men/people
derived from;
rime - tears from the god of creation that resulted in the creation of the rome...
By contrast, the Nahasu- foreign Blacks were the results of the masturbation of Re...
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
"The oral history of the Igbos also traces their origins to Ancient Egypt."
No they do not.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Igbo accounts of Ancient Egyptian origins from several sources...
"Just like many ancient kingdoms that are now scattered in the Southern part of the Sahara, the Onicha history is rooted in Ancient Egypt. From linguistics, cultural, cosmological, anthropological, pictorial, traditional and spiritual analyses and comparisons, Onicha people and their Yoruba and Edo relatives are from Ancient Egypt, known then to our ancestors as Kemet." --Ugonabo Onwa Amene Esq., Attorney at the International Court of Trade.
"By archeological account, in around 2345BC in Ancient Egypt, "M-Eru-ka (or Eru/Eri)" became a high priest to Pharaoh Teti. Because of this, the Egyptian origin of the Igbo people as many have insisted is also backed by linguistic evidences proving many Ancient Egyptian words survive in the Igbo language today and has led researchers to focus in this area. A small list of Ancient Egyptian words which survive in the Igbo language are as follows:
EGYPTIAN | IGBO (Onitsha and Uburu dialects used)
KAKA(God) | Ka (greater, superior) Khu (to kill, death) | Nwu/Gbu (die/to kill) Em (smell) | Imi/Emi (nose, associated with smell) Bi (to become) | Bu (to become) un (living being) | Ndu (life) Feh (to go away) | Feh (to fly away) Budo (dwelling place) | Obodo/ubudo (country, dwelling place) Dudu (black image of Osiris) | Mmadu (person) Un (living person) | Ulo/Uno (living area, house) Beka (pray/confess) | Biko/Beko (to plead, please) Aru (mouth) | Onu (mouth) & kooh/Kwue (to speak) Dor (settlement) | Dor-Nor (sit down, settle) Ra -Shu (light after darkness) | La -Shu (sleep) Aru (rise) | Anu/Kulie (up, rise) Wu (rise) | KWu-ni/Kunie (rise) In- n (negation) nh-n (negation) Ma (to know) | Ma, Ma-li (to know) Se (to create) | Ke (to create) & Se (to draw) Hoo (rejoice) | Goo, ta-Goo (dance, rejoice) Omijener (deep water) | Ime-me (deep inside) Nen (the primeval water mother) | Nem (mother) Ro (talk) | Kwo (to talk) Penka (divide) Panje (break it) Ala (Land of) | Ala (Land of, ground, boundary) Amu (children) | Umu (children) Ani (ground land below) | Ani (ground land below) Ka (higher) | Ka (greater, higher, stronger, above) Pa (open) | Meghee (open) Isi (leader) | Isi (leader, head (body part), female name as in igbo: "Isioma") Oni (AE City) | Oni-tsha (Igbo City) Ikhenaten (name of a Pharaoh) | Ikh-em (Igbo name for a male representing high power) Au-nu (Crocodile) | Anu/Anu-Ma-nu (animal, beast) Miri (water) | Miri (water) Nahasu (other Blacks) | Ahasi/Ani-hasi (Evening, night) Ak (man) | Ok-a (man) Ehn/Hen (yes, nod head) | Eh (yes, nod head) Paa/Faa (fly) | Feeh/Faa (fly) Utcha (dawn) | Uchi-chi/Utchi-chi(night) MM (among) | Imme (inside, among) W (they) | Uwe (they, them)" --Igbo Community Association of Nigeria
"Fact: Some of the people among the many principalities of Urhobo ethnic group nowadays have a mixture of Ibo people and other groups of Nigerians. For instance; my cultural group of Uvwie, an Urhobo sub-cultural group in our migration journey from Egypt, have settled in Orugbo, in Ondo, settled in Ife, settled in Erohwa, settled in Aboh, settled in Uvwie ro'rho, settled in Evwereni, settled in Patani, settled in Ughelli until we pitched tent in Ekpan, Effurun and their other sister towns. (The Urhobo People, Onigu Otite, 1982). In the process of these movements, we undeniably intermarried with the people we met on the way. Same can be apparently said of the Itsekiri, the Benin , the Ishan, the Ijaw, any other groups in Nigeria in their migrations from Egypt ." --Wilson Ometan, URHOBO-WORLD.ORG
Posted by Kaizen (Member # 16969) on :
Khu also means to kill/death in Yoruba.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by markellion: Why do people keep talking as if there was not continual contact? Why are people ignoring the long distance interactions?
Nobody said there was no continual contact. In fact Ausar pointed out a well known ancient highway the Egyptians used that stretched not only to Sudan but as far west as Chad and there is evidence of trade further south perhaps in Central Africa and further west in Sahelian West Africa. My question to you, is why does it seem like the Egyptians must have long distance connections to other Africans in order to somehow keep their African identity and roots intact?? The ancient Vietnamese were always Asian long before they had contact with China and the Romans were always European long before they had contact with Nords. Why do you over-emphasize Egypt's contact with other Africans as if that in it of itself is proof of their African nature?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kaizen: Khu also means to kill/death in Yoruba.
Thus, we can increase our list of the Mdu Ntr/Yoruba relationship...
The Genetic Relationship between Yoruba and Mdu Ntr:
(** = newly added)
Mdu Ntr - Yoruba
ab - abo : female
ak - ako : male
ala - ala : boundary
alu - ole : child (embryo)
amon - amon : to hide, concealed
apoti - apoti : pot; cup
atef - ade : crown, plumes
au.nu - o.ni : crocodile
baba - baba : father
bahtan - ibatan : compatriot
bu - bu : place
buhuru - buburu : evil
dua - adua : prayer
**dudu - dudu : black image of Osiris (black)
enen - enen : no
fahaka - fahaka : silvery fish
hen - hen : yes; nod head
hor - hor : elevated
keh - aake : axe
**khu - khu : to kill, death
ko - ko : reject
kot - ko : build
miri - miri : water, dazzle (of water)
mu - mu : water (drink)
nù - nù : to wipe, erase
naprit - naprit : seed
ni - mi : I
noki - inoki : fabulous beast
Oba - Oba : to direct, captain, authority (king)
**Ola - Olu : Exalted (deity, God)
omau - omo : child
Oni - Oni : Osiri's ethnicity , (king)
oufi - kufi : crown
ran - ran : name (call me)
Re - Ire : That which is good, goodness; (ba.re.ka) , blessing
ririt - riri : dirty (like a hippo), dirty
Saddu - Sadu : abode of the dead
Salug - Saluga : god of wealth
Posted by congoman (Member # 16073) on :
Kufa also means death in Lingala one of those so called Bantu languages.
Mayi means Water in Lingala Ona means a child in Tetela
It's amazing how we have kept this connection for thousands of years. As someone from Central Africa, my Grandfather used to tell us stories of how their ancestors came from the north. But over the years due to disputes and wars they have migrated and divided into tribes. Keep this thread growing brothers.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ---------------------------- More stupidity ----------------------------
So now you are reverting back to the eurocentric propaganda that only the Yoruba and Igbo were slaves from Nigeria.
What about the Hausa and Fulani, Wally?
Its funny when I called you out earlier, you revised your dogshit charts to include them. But only because I called you out on it.
You see folks, Wally knows the propaganda strategy his white masters utilize. Since the Hausa speak an Afro-asiatic language they have to be removed from American slavery. Also, since the Fulani purportedly have a resemblance to the so called "caucasoid" Ancient Egyptians, the Fulani must also be removed from American slavery.
Wally, why are you a slave to eurocentrism?
Posted by Kaizen (Member # 16969) on :
I think fahaka/fadaka just means silver. In Yoruba that is.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote:
quote: The African Americans are partially descended from Ancient Egyptians. People from the Nile Region fled that area to escape incoming Assyrian, Greek, Roman and later Arab invaders. Several West African tribes say they came from the East.
We have genetic proof that many from West Central Africa are similar to Nile Valley Africans.
We're all waiting for you to define "west" Africa. What are the nations that make up "west" Africa?
Are Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisi in "west" Africa?
Until you answer the above you have proven yourself to be just another uneducated loon who does nothing but make unscholarly unsubstantiated claims.
We're waiting...........
---------------------------------------
West Africa can be defined many ways. I like to think of the members of the ECOWAS states + Chad and Mauritania.
When I say Ancient Egyptians, I mean the Upper Egyptians who are definitely Black. Some of and the Nubians went west in successive waves west. This is basically the theory of Cheik Anta Diop.
The Phoenicians reached West Africa (Senegal/Sierra Leone) about 400 BC. Herodutus gives a description of West Africa also. They saw pygmies in West Africa at that time.
Very black and very tall groups came in later. They are the ancestors of some Wolofs, Mande etc. The Songhay have a tradition of coming from Aswan.
Dr. A. M. Lam follows in Diop's footsteps with:
By the way, this is Dr. A.M. Lam:
He wrote also:
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
He again deals with the question of the Nile vs. the Sahara in a book which I did not read yet:
We are more advanced them him because we have DNA evidence. As I said here and in other posts a minority of African American men have the same Y chromosomes found with men along the Nile Valley: These are A, B, E-m35, E-M78, E1b1a*, T(K2), R-M173 etc. They can be found in Hausa, Fulani, and Balanta slave descendants. The M1 mtDNA can be found along the Nile, in Guinea Bissau and in America.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kaizen: I think fahaka/fadaka just means silver. In Yoruba that is.
quote:The Fahaka Puffer, also known as the Nile Puffer or Band Puffer, comes from the freshwater lakes and rivers of Africa and can grow to a very large size. The Fahaka is brownish-gray on the back fading to an off-white on the underbelly, with a series of lighter horizontal stripes running from the tail to the pectoral fin.
" brownish-gray on the back fading to an off-white",
describes the color silver/silvery - hence, fahaka puffer = silver puffer = silvery fish ...
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Archaeologists believe that the people who became the Balanta migrated to present-day Guinea-Bissau in small groups between the tenth and fourteenth century C.E. During the nineteenth century they spread throughout the area that is presently Guinea-Bissau and southern Senegal in order to resist the expansion of the Kaabu kingdom. Oral tradition amongst the Balanta has it that they migrated westward from the area that is now Egypt, Sudan, and Ethiopia to escape drought and wars. Today, the Balanta are mostly found in the south and central regions of Guinea-Bissau.
Re: Balanta people in Guinea-Bissau By:weare <Show E-Mail> Date: 10/13/2008, 11:44 am In Response To: Re: Balanta people in Guinea-Bissau (weare)
In May of 2007, yDNA results were received from African Ancestry for a male cousin who represents my ggrandfather on my mother's side. He is 100% the same as the Balanta people who live in Guinea-Bissau today. The family migrated from Virginia to Natchez, Mississippi. My own yDNA results are 100% the same as the Balanta and Fula people who today live in Guinea-Bissau. The family migrated from South Carolina to Tallahatchie County, Mississippi.
Surprising Results from DNA By:Anita Wills <Show E-Mail> Date: 2/17/2006, 1:47 am
I am posting some information my brother sent regarding his Y- Chromosome DNA test. It is really quite amazing to see how this is unraveling and showing our genetic links. The original DNA test was taken through Howard, and Family Tree DNA expanded on it.
The K2 Haplogroup is dubbed "Eurasian Man," a non-African male who was born with a unique genetic marker know as M9. Eurasian Man lived in the area of Iran or South-Central Asia 40,000 years ago and from him nearly all North American and East Asian males are descended as are most Europeans and many Indians.
This is from our Paternal line, on my Fathers', Fathers side of the family. We now know that the line originated as a Native who resided in South Carolina.
From Wikipedia's T Y chromosome page:
Me: The Fulani share this Y chromosome and traits with Jews, Egyptians, Ethiopians and Indians.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
According to the oral and documented history of the Tikar people, they originated in present-day Sudan. It is believed that when they inhabited Sudan, they lived adjacent to two groups. The first group comprised of iron-makers/blacksmiths and carpenters in the Meroe Kindgom; this group (ancestors of the Mende people) later left the Sudan and moved west towards Lake Chad. They eventually traveled to the Mali Empire, and along with the town Fulani and Mande, founded the Kingdom of Mani. The second group - ancestors of the Fulani - arrived in the Sudan from Egypt and Ethiopia. These cattle and goat herders moved west to Lake Chad near present-day Cameroon, Niger, and Nigeria before traveling across West Africa. It is is believed that when the ancestors of the Tikar were in the Sudan, they lived along the Nile River. There, they developed their cattle grazing, iron-making, horse riding, and fighting skills.
African American DNA Research Forum Mitochondrial Results - A question By:M Jones <Show E-Mail> Date: 6/9/2009, 12:17 am
Just got the results back on my mom (did the one through Ancestry.com). No good matches. Haplogroup is M.
Is Haplogroup M considered today's native-americans?
MAYBE IT'S GOOD FOR ME THAT YOU DON"T BELIEVE AND CANNOT SEE WHAT I AM TELLING YOU.
BY THE TIME YOU WAKE UP, IT WILL BE TO LATE.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Common sense from what we KNOW...
Look at, and study this chart: You will note that only 1 in 4 of John Kennedy's grandparents is, in fact, a Kennedy; if we go to his great grandparents, barring incest, only 1 in 8 is a Kennedy; and this increases exponentially with each subsequent generation (1 in 16,...).
Thus, it is absurd, even folly, for ANY African American to claim 100% descent from a particular African ethnic group, even President Obama can not (he is too intelligent to do so anyway), his mother would also have to be Luo..
DNA research is an extremely important scientific research tool, but a tool is only as good as how it is used...a gun is a tool.
DNA as used to "determine" any Americans' ancestry is nothing more than a sham - snake oil; a way to separate you from your money - but, it's your money... Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
For an individual to have any real idea of their ancestry all of their cousins and 2nd cousins, and then some, would need to be tested to avoid the parental lineal skew Wally demonstrated.
These mtDNA and nrY chromosome results were designed for population genetics not personal heritage searches.
For instance a male subject's father's father's father's father ad infinitum could be an Irishman and that same person's mother's mother's mother's mother ad infinitum could be a Leni Lenape.
Yet their father's mother's father blah blah blah could be Fulani and their mother's father's mother blah blah blah could be Soninke; and so on for all the non parental skewed lineage.
The result? That male subject would be typically Savannah/Sahel African (aDNA would verify that) but the nrY chromosome and mtDNA report would say he is 50% Euro and 50% AmInd but in reality he's 100% African.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri wrote:
quote: Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy?
On what do you base this wild emotional claim on?
Folks, watch this boy scurry away and try to hide.
We're waiting alTakruri......
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Everyone is noticing that you are running from a scholarly question. It shouldn't be that hard to answer a basic "Yes" or "No" question.
Are you saying that people who looked like the presidents of Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc were brought over to the new world as slaves?
You can't obfusicate the question now Wally. Just answer "Yes" or "No".
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
According to the oral and documented history of the Tikar people, they originated in present-day Sudan. It is believed that when they inhabited Sudan, they lived adjacent to two groups. The first group comprised of iron-makers/blacksmiths and carpenters in the Meroe Kindgom; this group (ancestors of the Mende people) later left the Sudan and moved west towards Lake Chad. They eventually traveled to the Mali Empire, and along with the town Fulani and Mande, founded the Kingdom of Mani. The second group - ancestors of the Fulani - arrived in the Sudan from Egypt and Ethiopia. These cattle and goat herders moved west to Lake Chad near present-day Cameroon, Niger, and Nigeria before traveling across West Africa. It is is believed that when the ancestors of the Tikar were in the Sudan, they lived along the Nile River. There, they developed their cattle grazing, iron-making, horse riding, and fighting skills.
African American DNA Research Forum Mitochondrial Results - A question By:M Jones <Show E-Mail> Date: 6/9/2009, 12:17 am
Just got the results back on my mom (did the one through Ancestry.com). No good matches. Haplogroup is M.
Is Haplogroup M considered today's native-americans?
MAYBE IT'S GOOD FOR ME THAT YOU DON"T BELIEVE AND CANNOT SEE WHAT I AM TELLING YOU.
BY THE TIME YOU WAKE UP, IT WILL BE TO LATE.
Bravo!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
An extremely significant contribution, which I shall again repeat, posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian, regarding the Tikar of Cameroon, who form a component of the African American ancestral tree:
"According to the oral and documented history of the Tikar people, they originated in present-day Sudan. It is believed that when they inhabited Sudan, they lived adjacent to two groups. The first group comprised of iron-makers/blacksmiths and carpenters in the Meroe Kindgom; this group (ancestors of the Mende people) later left the Sudan and moved west towards Lake Chad. They eventually traveled to the Mali Empire, and along with the town Fulani and Mande, founded the Kingdom of Mani. The second group - ancestors of the Fulani - arrived in the Sudan from Egypt and Ethiopia. These cattle and goat herders moved west to Lake Chad near present-day Cameroon, Niger, and Nigeria before traveling across West Africa. It is believed that when the ancestors of the Tikar were in the Sudan, they lived along the Nile River. There, they developed their cattle grazing, iron-making, horse riding, and fighting skills."
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Po, Po Wally
Searching for self-esteem through fantasy.
You use drugs don't you Wally.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Bob_01 wrote: ----------------------------- Could be. -----------------------------
There's no could be to it.
West Asians
History of Bermuda "In 1509, the Portuguese started to trade Arabian slaves because aside from ridding from those people, they also gained profit."
Why do these so called "west" Africans who are direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians not look like the indigenous people who live in Egypt now?
We're waiting Wally..............
Folks, Wally can't even answer a basic question.
Posted by Nuwaupu (Member # 17445) on :
African Americans are the Ancient Egyptians. The proof is in our blood, our genetic make-up.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Since both West and East Africans are genetically related via the PN2 clade, and since both may have ancestry in the pre-desertification Sahara, I suppose black Americans claiming a fraternal connection to the ancient Egyptians isn't any worse than white Americans and Europeans claiming a common "Western" heritage with the ancient Greeks.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Truthcentric wrote: ------------------------------ Since both West and East Africans are genetically related via the PN2 clade, and since both may have ancestry in the pre-desertification Sahara, I suppose black Americans claiming a fraternal connection to the ancient Egyptians isn't any worse than white Americans and Europeans claiming a common "Western" heritage with the ancient Greeks. ------------------------------
You're dismissed. Its apparent that scholarship and intellect aren't your strongsuit. You should refrain from posting since your stupidity will continuosly come to the fore.
This scholarly beatdown has been brought to you by Argyle.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Al are you just making things up?
alTakruri wrote:
quote: ------------------------------- Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy? -------------------------------
On what do you base this wild emotional claim on?
Folks, watch this boy scurry away and try to hide.
We're waiting alTakruri......
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Ugonabo Onwa Amene continues his essay on the Ancient Egyptian Origins of the Igbo, Edos, Yoruba -- ancestors (Ikhu) of the African American:
"Our confusion and rejection of our Egyptian roots is premised upon years and years of colonial mis-education and doctrine that the Egyptian civilization was attributable to Europeans. The imperialist oppressors never taught our history from its remotest past but taught and narrowed the genesis of African history to the colonial era and advent. Most Europeans who made a good effort to conduct research on African history and anthropology, like Professor Richard Henderson, in his “The King in every man” did excellent works but their works were very prejudicially narrowed in time and scope.
None ever attempted to conduct an indepth study to connect our history to the advanced ancient Egyptian roots. This was a deliberate omission, perhaps premised upon the colonial doctrine that “Africa was a race without a past” because it does not take a lot of studies for one to connect Onicha and closely related communities like the Edos and Yorubas to ancient Egypt."
...I think we've assisted this process within this very thread. So, keep posting your contributions! Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Truthcentric wrote: Since both West and East Africans are genetically related via the PN2 clade, and since both may have ancestry in the pre-desertification Sahara, I suppose black Americans claiming a fraternal connection to the ancient Egyptians isn't any worse than white Americans and Europeans claiming a common "Western" heritage with the ancient Greeks.
...You seemed to have missed or have not read a crucial distinction made in the opening post of this topic...
quote:African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Igbo accounts of Ancient Egyptian origins from several sources...
"Just like many ancient kingdoms that are now scattered in the Southern part of the Sahara, the Onicha history is rooted in Ancient Egypt. From linguistics, cultural, cosmological, anthropological, pictorial, traditional and spiritual analyses and comparisons, Onicha people and their Yoruba and Edo relatives are from Ancient Egypt, known then to our ancestors as Kemet." --Ugonabo Onwa Amene Esq., Attorney at the International Court of Trade.
"By archeological account, in around 2345BC in Ancient Egypt, "M-Eru-ka (or Eru/Eri)" became a high priest to Pharaoh Teti. Because of this, the Egyptian origin of the Igbo people as many have insisted is also backed by linguistic evidences proving many Ancient Egyptian words survive in the Igbo language today and has led researchers to focus in this area. A small list of Ancient Egyptian words which survive in the Igbo language are as follows:
EGYPTIAN | IGBO (Onitsha and Uburu dialects used)
KAKA(God) | Ka (greater, superior) Khu (to kill, death) | Nwu/Gbu (die/to kill) Em (smell) | Imi/Emi (nose, associated with smell) Bi (to become) | Bu (to become) un (living being) | Ndu (life) Feh (to go away) | Feh (to fly away) Budo (dwelling place) | Obodo/ubudo (country, dwelling place) Dudu (black image of Osiris) | Mmadu (person) Un (living person) | Ulo/Uno (living area, house) Beka (pray/confess) | Biko/Beko (to plead, please) Aru (mouth) | Onu (mouth) & kooh/Kwue (to speak) Dor (settlement) | Dor-Nor (sit down, settle) Ra -Shu (light after darkness) | La -Shu (sleep) Aru (rise) | Anu/Kulie (up, rise) Wu (rise) | KWu-ni/Kunie (rise) In- n (negation) nh-n (negation) Ma (to know) | Ma, Ma-li (to know) Se (to create) | Ke (to create) & Se (to draw) Hoo (rejoice) | Goo, ta-Goo (dance, rejoice) Omijener (deep water) | Ime-me (deep inside) Nen (the primeval water mother) | Nem (mother) Ro (talk) | Kwo (to talk) Penka (divide) Panje (break it) Ala (Land of) | Ala (Land of, ground, boundary) Amu (children) | Umu (children) Ani (ground land below) | Ani (ground land below) Ka (higher) | Ka (greater, higher, stronger, above) Pa (open) | Meghee (open) Isi (leader) | Isi (leader, head (body part), female name as in igbo: "Isioma") Oni (AE City) | Oni-tsha (Igbo City) Ikhenaten (name of a Pharaoh) | Ikh-em (Igbo name for a male representing high power) Au-nu (Crocodile) | Anu/Anu-Ma-nu (animal, beast) Miri (water) | Miri (water) Nahasu (other Blacks) | Ahasi/Ani-hasi (Evening, night) Ak (man) | Ok-a (man) Ehn/Hen (yes, nod head) | Eh (yes, nod head) Paa/Faa (fly) | Feeh/Faa (fly) Utcha (dawn) | Uchi-chi/Utchi-chi(night) MM (among) | Imme (inside, among) W (they) | Uwe (they, them)" --Igbo Community Association of Nigeria
"Fact: Some of the people among the many principalities of Urhobo ethnic group nowadays have a mixture of Ibo people and other groups of Nigerians. For instance; my cultural group of Uvwie, an Urhobo sub-cultural group in our migration journey from Egypt, have settled in Orugbo, in Ondo, settled in Ife, settled in Erohwa, settled in Aboh, settled in Uvwie ro'rho, settled in Evwereni, settled in Patani, settled in Ughelli until we pitched tent in Ekpan, Effurun and their other sister towns. (The Urhobo People, Onigu Otite, 1982). In the process of these movements, we undeniably intermarried with the people we met on the way. Same can be apparently said of the Itsekiri, the Benin , the Ishan, the Ijaw, any other groups in Nigeria in their migrations from Egypt ." --Wilson Ometan, URHOBO-WORLD.ORG
There is the theory, and even the strong belief among some Ibo people, that they are descendents of the Hebrews......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Nigeria
However, I am not dismissing the cultural connections to AE.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Israel wrote: There is the theory, and even the strong belief among some Ibo people, that they are descendents of the Hebrews.....However, I am not dismissing the cultural connections to AE.
You, like so many, many people, are confusing race, ethnicity, and religious beliefs...
We encounter this social confusion in our daily lives:
a) "Is he Black (a phenotype) or Puerto Rican (a nationality)?" - so does the 20% of Puerto Ricans who are Black become irrelevant?
b) Muslims, Jews (Hebrews), Baptists, Buddhists, Animists...are a people, only in the sense that they share a commonality of religious doctrine; the Ethiopian Hebrews and the Polish Hebrews are the same people in this regard...
c) The idea that the Igbo claim a descent from a faith is in no way a contradiction to their origins from a nationality...
FYI: Apru - a class of foreign stonemasons, once identified with the Hebrews.
The philosophical roots of all modern religions, like humanity itself, are to be found in Africa. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by congoman: Kufa also means death in Lingala one of those so called Bantu languages. (Khu in Mdu Ntr)
Mayi means Water in Lingala (Mu, Miri in Mdu Ntr) Ona means a child in Tetela (Omau in Mdu Ntr)
It's amazing how we have kept this connection for thousands of years. As someone from Central Africa, my Grandfather used to tell us stories of how their ancestors came from the north. But over the years due to disputes and wars they have migrated and divided into tribes. Keep this thread growing brothers.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah people have a rich storytelling tradition strongly influenced by African oral traditions, but also informed by their historical experience in America. Their stories include animal trickster tales about the antics of "Brer Rabbit", "Brer Fox" and "Brer Bear", "Brer Wolf", etc.; human trickster tales about clever and self-assertive slaves; and morality tales designed to impart moral teaching to children.
.....his is almost identical with Uncle Remus’s story of how the rabbit robbed the fox of his game. In a story from Upper Egypt, a fox lies down in the road in front of a man who is carrying fowls to market, and finally succeeds in securing them.
“I am not prepared to form a theory about these stories. There can be no doubt that some of them, found among the negroes and the Indians, had a common origin. The most natural solution would be to suppose that they originated in Africa, and were carried to South America by the negro slaves......."
“It is interesting to find a story from Upper Egypt (that of the fox who pretended to be dead) identical with an Amazonian story, and strongly resembling one found by you among the negroes. Vambagen, the Brazilian historian (now Visconde de Rio Branco), tried to prove a relationship between the ancient Egyptians,......"
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
A Boo Hag is a mythical creature in the folklore of South Carolina's Gullah culture. It is a regionalized version of the Hag myth.
The legend
According to the legend, Boo Hags are similar to vampires. Unlike vampires, they gain sustenance from a person's breath, as opposed to their blood, by "ridin'" you.[1][2][3]
They have no skin, and thus are red. In order to be less conspicuous, they will steal a victim's skin and use it for as long as it holds out, wearing it as one might wear clothing. They will remove and hide this skin before going ridin'.
When a hag determines a victim is suitable for "ridin'", the hag will generally gain access to the home through a small crack, crevice, or hole. The hag will then position themselves over the sleeping victim, sucking their breath. This act renders the victim helpless, and induces a deep dream-filled sleep. The hag tends to leave the victim alive, so as to use them again for their energy. However, if the victim struggles, the hag may take their skin, leaving the victim to suffer. After taking the victim's energy, the hag flies off, as they must be in their skin by dawn or be forever trapped without skin. When the victim awakes, they may feel short of breath, but generally the victim only feels tired.
An expression sometimes used in South Carolina is "don't let de hag ride ya." This expression may come from the Boo Hag legend.
It was also said that if a person placed a broom beside their bed before going to sleep it would prevent the Hag from riding them. Hags supposedly would be distracted by counting the straws of the broom and would not get to ride the person sleeping before the sun rose the next morning.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Commonly found on houses in the American South, Haint Blue is a paint color used on porch ceilings and door and window trim.
Tradition holds that it orginated in the Carribean as a way to ward off evil spirits ("haints"). Indigo was used to get the blue color. Also, lime was commonly used in the blue paint which helped keep insects away.
"...folks from the South who believe blue ceilings scare evil spirits.
That can be credited to the Gullah/Geechee culture, a mix of African tribes that made up a large part of the slave population once found in the Carolina Low Country...
These people brought many customs and myths with them to the United States, including the superstition that the color blue warded off evil spirits ("haints," or haunts). The Gullah people would paint the woodwork around their windows and doorways to ward off the haints... The practice spilled over onto porch ceilings, and the color came to be known as "haint blue." Source
"Haint Blue" isn't one specific color. It can vary from a pale pale light blue to a more deep turquoise or teal color. As long as we see it as the color of aporch ceiling or around a door/window, we can consider it Haint Blue.
"Legend has it that the color was brought to the United States with the slaves who believed that it had the ability to ward off evil spirits. In the South, a “Haint” is a spirit (a derivation of “haunt”) and the color supposedly keeps them away. This is why many houses in the South have blue porches or blue trim on the house. "
Today we see Haint Blue on all sorts of structures, from old shacks to graceful mansions. Even on commercial buildings and hotels.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
BLUE DOOR
Doors painted haint blue are to protect from hags.
Blue door Nubia
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
That would be very interesting if indeed if the blue doors has the same meaning on the Nile as the in the America's..also they made use of Voodoo dolls in ancient Kemet
The above is from Kemetic/Greco/Roman period and Modern pop culture Voodoo doll.
Execration text scribbled on a crude statue, dated to the 1st Intermediate Period.
Execration Texts - The Ancient Egypt Site (main.gif - 14.4 Kb)
A particular type of magical text are texts listing places, groups of people or individuals that were considered dangerous, hostile or evil. They were written on statues of prisoners or on jars, that were broken and then buried, as part of the ritual destruction of the enemies listed in the texts.
Statues or shards with these execration texts have been found throughout Egypt, but particularly near tombs in Thebes and Saqqara, and near the Middle Kingdom fortresses in Nubia. The enemies listed in these execration texts could be Egypt's traditional enemies, as well as specific ones. It is, however, hard to distinguish between texts that refer to real, existing enemies and those that are just copies of older ones or that list ancient enemies that no longer pose a threat to Egypt. To fully understand the historical value of an execration text, it is necessary to study the context in which it was found and to compare it with the other texts.
One example found near a fortress in Nubia was written on a skull. It is not impossible that this skull belonged to a member of a group that the Egyptians in command of the fortress considered hostile. By decapitating him and writing an execration text on his skull, the Egyptians probably wanted to magically transfer the fate of that individual to his entire group.
The oldest known examples of this type of text are dated to the Old Kingdom, but they remain popular throughout pharaonic history. The example to the right, scribbled on a crude statue representing an enemy, is dated to the 1st Intermediate Period and can now be found at the Louvre Museum. The arms of the statue are not present, probably to magically render the enemy it represents incapable of causing any harm. http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ancient Egyptian voodoo was previously covered here:
AFRICAN AMERICAN AND EGYPTIAN BLOOD TYPES Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
I live in NYC. My blood type is O+. The Blacks in NYC are often very mixed. In my neighborhood there are many lightskinned Blacks. That's just the way it is.
----------------------------------------
I was thinking about language.
Chadic and Berber are both part of the AfroAsiatic language family which is what Ancient Egyptian also belonged to.
Our ancestors included those who spoke Hausa and other Chadic languages from Northern Cameroon and Tamasheq the Tuareg language.
Also, Kanuri of Kanem-Bornu and Songhay are Nilo-Saharan languages like Nubian.
Therefore, we are linguistically related to AE and Nubia.
All African languages are related. But, Hausa, Tamasheq, Songhay and Kanuri are closer to the tongue of Ancient Egypt than the other Niger Congo languages.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
September 27, 2004 Vol. 62 No. 13 Roots RevealedBy Bob Meadows Using DNA to Explore the Family Tree, Rick Kittles Helps Black Americans Trace Their Ancestry Back to AfricaWhere do we come from? It's the most basic of questions, but the legacy of slavery made it impossible for Antoinette Harrell-Miller to answer. The New Orleans homemaker knew that her family had lived in the South for generations. But she wanted to go back even further. Rummaging through records in churches and quizzing older relatives for clues about her distant forebears, "I found out quite a bit," Harrell-Miller recalls. "But nothing that led me to Africa."
Then last year, Harrell-Miller, 43, learned about a new tool that could help solve a genealogical mystery: the first DNA testing kit designed specifically for black Americans interested in pinpointing their African ethnicity. On July 4, 2003, she took the test at home, running a cotton swab along her inner cheek and mailing the sample to a lab. Six weeks later, evidence of her lost heritage arrived in the mail. It showed that she shared DNA with the nomadic Tuareg people, who inhabit Niger and other parts of West Africa......
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
What I am saying to you is that assuming your relatives were enslaved in Louisiana, you are probably part Tuareg and this you have every right to claim as your heritage.
I can claim the Fulani, since my ancestors were enslaved in SC and historically we know many slaves came from Fullah lands and DNA proves this over and over again.
The Fulani are already in Egypt, Sudan and Ethiopia in a modern migration. The Hausa/Fulani are the 4th largest ethnic group in Sudan. Therefore, the relatives of the African American are already back on the Nile.
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote: Wally,
What I am saying to you is that assuming your relatives were enslaved in Louisiana, you are probably part Tuareg and this you have every right to claim as your heritage.
In the very opening statement of this thread, I wrote (African Americans can legitimately claim all of these historical-genetic heritages):
Fortunately for us, the American Slave System did not support the ethnic exclusiveness practiced in Africa by our ancestors; rather it did the opposite and in the process helped to, inadvertently, create a Pan-African ethnic group!
The new misuse of DNA to 'find' an African American's ancestry in any single one of these groups cited above to the exclusion of all the others is pure and simple; its snake oil - a ruse - shell game - bulls***
Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote: Wally,
What I am saying to you is that assuming your relatives were enslaved in Louisiana, you are probably part Tuareg and this you have every right to claim as your heritage.
In the very opening statement of this thread, I wrote (African Americans can legitimately claim all of these historical-genetic heritages):
Fortunately for us, the American Slave System did not support the ethnic exclusiveness practiced in Africa by our ancestors; rather it did the opposite and in the process helped to, inadvertently, create a Pan-African ethnic group!
The new misuse of DNA to 'find' an African American's ancestry in any single one of these groups cited above to the exclusion of all the others is pure and simple; its snake oil - a ruse - shell game - bulls***
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by NeferKemet: So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
sorry that you fell for the ruse, but if you enjoyed the adventure, then I suppose it was worth it...
Here's the simple math:
Assume that you were born in 1980 and that your ancestry in the United States goes back to, say, 1730; that means you are the 10th generation of your family in America. The formula for calculating the number of ancestors is n=2^generations, thus you would have 1,024 ancestors from 1730; go back to 1705 and you would have 2,048! And I am certain that you know that the 512 or 1,024 ancestors on one of your parent's side were not all descended exclusively from the Mande ethnic group, maybe a dozen or so perhaps...
The Gullah of South Carolina is not an ethnic group, it's just the name of Africans who were imported to that part of the country and who were resilient in their determination to retain their African traditions; they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent...
Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
I know, and understand that Gullah peoples are not an ethnic group.
Haplogroups are not important either in determining a country of origin?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by NeferKemet: So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
sorry that you fell for the ruse, but if you enjoyed the adventure, then I suppose it was worth it...
Here's the simple math:
Assume that you were born in 1980 and that your ancestry in the United States goes back to, say, 1730; that means you are the 10th generation of your family in America. The formula for calculating the number of ancestors is n=2^generations, thus you would have 1,024 ancestors from 1730; go back to 1705 and you would have 2,048! And I am certain that you know that the 512 or 1,024 ancestors on one of your parent's side were not all descended exclusively from the Mande ethnic group, maybe a dozen or so perhaps...
The Gullah of South Carolina is not an ethnic group, it's just the name of Africans who were imported to that part of the country and who were resilient in their determination to retain their African traditions; they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Haplogroups are not important either in determining a country of origin?
...Haplogroups serve to identify populations, and usually define a broad geographical location; like humans, haplogroups are not confined to 'countries.' What we're talking about is geneology, and I repeat: ...Common sense from what we KNOW...
Look at, and study this chart: You will note that only 1 in 4 of John Kennedy's grandparents is, in fact, a Kennedy; if we go to his great grandparents, barring incest, only 1 in 8 is a Kennedy; and this increases exponentially with each subsequent generation (1 in 16, 1 in 32, 1 in 64,...).
Thus, it is absurd, even folly, for ANY African American to claim 100% descent from a particular African ethnic group, even President Obama can not (he is too intelligent to do so anyway), his mother would also have to be Luo..
DNA research is an extremely important scientific research tool, but a tool is only as good as how it is used...a gun is a tool.
DNA as used to "determine" any Americans' ancestry is nothing more than a sham - snake oil; a way to separate you from your money - but, it's your money...
It has also been asserted that this "Kennedy" ancestry can be traced back to a northern Italian source... Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Bettyboo, NeferKemet and Wally,
I know that we are from 1 tribe only. I know we are mixed. I am taking for myself Gullah/GeeChee heritage maternally and as one who has visited South Carolina, spoke to my older relative s and lives in a neighborhood with other SC people in NYC. I have looked at variuos gentic reports that you do not have and questioned Dr. Rick Kittles staff.
From all this, I have deduced that I can claim the area from Senegal to Liberia. Plus, West Central Africa and Angola.
But, I am very tall and skinny with a face that can fit into a "Fulani" village.
The gullah foltales match those of the Fulani, Mande and Bantu speakers. The DNA is largely Rice Caost/Senegambian.
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplotypes reveal maternal population genetic affinities of Sea Island Gullah-speaking African Americans David C. McLean Jr. 1 *, Ida Spruill 1, George Argyropoulos 1, Grier P. Page 1, Mark D. Shriver 2, W. Timothy Garvey 1 1Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Medical Genetics, Department of Medicine, Sea Island Families Project and Project Sugar, Medical University of South Carolina, and Ralph H. Johnson Veteran Affairs Medical Center, Charleston, South Carolina 20425 2Department of Anthropology, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802
email: David C. McLean (mcleandc@musc.edu)
*Correspondence to David C. McLean Jr., Department of Biostastics, Bioinformatics, and Epidemiology, Medical University of South Carolina, 135 Cannon St., Suite 305R, P.O. Box 250835, Charleston, SC 29425
Funded by: W.M. Keck Foundation American Diabetes Association National Institutes of Health; Grant Number: DK-47461
Keywords admixture • population genetic substructure • -statistics
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Bettyboo, NeferKemet and Wally,
I know that we are from 1 tribe only. I know we are mixed. I am taking for myself Gullah/GeeChee heritage maternally and as one who has visited South Carolina......
I repeat, DNA as used to "determine" any Americans' ancestry is nothing more than a sham - snake oil; a way to separate you from your money - but, it's your money... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri wrote:
quote: Well what was DuBois' "Talented Tenth" but a colourocracy?
On what do you base this wild emotional claim on?
We're waiting alTakruri......
What's taking you so long? Are you afraid I will iron your pants?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri its apparent you can't back up your fiction. You looney colorstruck bastard. You need for there to be some kind of color conflict. Maybe you are still reeling from being turned down by those berber bitches.
Don't take out your frustrations out on AAs. Seek some psychiatric help instead.
Posted by markellion (Member # 14131) on :
mistake sorry
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Ugonabo Onwa Amene continues his essay on the Ancient Egyptian Origins of the Igbo, Edos, Yoruba -- ancestors (Ikhu) of the African American:
"Our confusion and rejection of our Egyptian roots is premised upon years and years of colonial mis-education and doctrine that the Egyptian civilization was attributable to Europeans. The imperialist oppressors never taught our history from its remotest past but taught and narrowed the genesis of African history to the colonial era and advent. Most Europeans who made a good effort to conduct research on African history and anthropology, like Professor Richard Henderson, in his “The King in every man” did excellent works but their works were very prejudicially narrowed in time and scope.
None ever attempted to conduct an indepth study to connect our history to the advanced ancient Egyptian roots. This was a deliberate omission, perhaps premised upon the colonial doctrine that “Africa was a race without a past” because it does not take a lot of studies for one to connect Onicha and closely related communities like the Edos and Yorubas to ancient Egypt."
...I think we've assisted this process within this very thread. So, keep posting your contributions!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN ART...
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
I believe you.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ----------------------------- they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent... -----------------------------
Folks, the above proves that at some point truth and reality will eventually sink in.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote: ----------------------------- they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent... -----------------------------
Folks, the above proves that at some point truth and reality will eventually sink in.
What precisely is your point? Do you have a point or are you simply doodling...
The Gullah are African Americans, who, like the Creole of Louisiana speak a patois of African-English/French and like all African Americans are the descendants of Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw, Ovimbundu, Kimbundu, Mongo, Luba, Kongo, Mangbetu-Azande, Fang, Punu, Nzeiby, Mbede,...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: -------------------------------------- What precisely is your point? Do you have a point or are you simply doodling... --------------------------------------
Since you want me to go ahead and say it, I will.
The point is that my scholarly beatdowns and intellectual thrashings have finally made you see truth (ie. people were brought as slaves from so called north and east (including the horn) Africa) instead of fantasy (only so called west/central Africans were brought as slaves).
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...that's it!!
To the intelligent ones here, please do not respond to any further posts here on this topic by Hammer or argyle104. Let us keep this topic unclogged and/or distracted by lunacy; let us keep it mature and intelligent!
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
I think we need to ignore Wally and his 70 IQ.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by astenb:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
You're fvcking lying. There is no culture in the "Gullah" culture that cannot be found outside of the general African American population. If so, what is it? Gullah speak American English just like every American in the U.S. There is no "creole" language amongst the Gullah. There is no creole language in the U.S. Creole language has been extinct and you will not find it anywhere in the U.S. The Gullah people are descendants of slaves that didn't mix with whites or other ethnic groups. If African-American claim to be "Gullah" and they have mix ancestry then they are lying.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote:
Define North Africa
Define East Africa
Hypocrite
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote:
Define North Africa
Define East Africa
Hypocrite
The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. (Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
We're not discussing the geographical locations of either north or eastern Africa OR hypocrisy... Stick to the topic! Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: --------------------------
--------------------------
You're so desperate to have some connection to anjunct ejupt. Po, Po Wally.
People according to Wally the anjunct ejiptions left ejipt to become hapless victims of the slave trade in so called "west" Africa.
Wally, why wouldn't they just sail over to ejipt and get the slaves from there since Egypt is a lot closer to America than so called "west" Africa.
I guess since you are an AA in a public school, you don't know how to read a map. LOL!
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by astenb:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
You're fvcking lying. There is no culture in the "Gullah" culture that cannot be found outside of the general African American population. If so, what is it? Gullah speak American English just like every American in the U.S. There is no "creole" language amongst the Gullah. There is no creole language in the U.S. Creole language has been extinct and you will not find it anywhere in the U.S. The Gullah people are descendants of slaves that didn't mix with whites or other ethnic groups. If African-American claim to be "Gullah" and they have mix ancestry then they are lying.
Greetings.
Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ANCIENT EGYPTIAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN ART...
Posted by Truth_Doctor (Member # 17486) on :
Good job Wally, but I still don't see your point. Comparing people with known European and Indian heritage to Africans is a waste of time, the Dr Says!
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
Doctor it up ...
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
Posted by IronLion. (Member # 17583) on :
Hey, leave my Gullah people out of this. I resent the fact that you people always pick on them for whatever purpose pleases you.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote: Gullah Culture in Danger of Fading Away
ST. HELENA ISLAND, SOUTH CAROLINA—Time has stood still for more than a century on this rural island off the Atlantic Ocean. Dirt roads lead to houses where Gullah families live in clusters the way their ancestors did in Africa. Women wearing head wraps and aprons weave baskets from sea grass and sell them to tourists on their way to the affluent outlying islands.
Sandwiched between the lavish golf courses and gated condo communities of Hilton Head Island and the trendy riverfront village of Beaufort, St. Helena—untouched by massive development—is one of only a few remnants of a bygone era in the South Carolina low country. And the people who live there want to keep it that way.
The Gullahs who live on the island are descendants of West African slaves who worked the rice and cotton fields before they were freed and offered a chance to purchase their land. As whites deserted the coast in favor of milder climates inland, the Gullahs lived in isolation for generations, allowing them to maintain their African culture longer than any slave descendants in America.
But more than 300 years after their arrival, some fear the Gullahs' grip on the past as well as their land is slipping. As older generations die, coastal development moves in and young people leave to find work, the people who once thrived along the coast from northern Florida to North Carolina are struggling to hold on to the ancient customs that defined their culture and remained intact almost a century after the emancipation.
"These are proud people who have always had a strong sense of history and tradition particularly on St. Helena, which was a point of entry for slaves," said Veronica Gerald, a historian on the island. "There was a time we owned all of this land. We helped to build this coastal area and we are fighting very hard to keep St. Helena as true to its natural state as possible. We see what happened to Hilton Head, and we don't want it here."
Theirs is a familiar story of assimilation as told by American Indians, Cajuns in Louisiana and highlanders in Appalachia. No longer able to live in isolation, groups with roots in old America are sucked into the mainstream, where local traditions are forfeited in favor of popular culture.
Saving the Gullahs From Extinction
The National Park Service soon will complete a three-year study to determine what role the government might play in saving the Gullahs from extinction. But it is almost impossible, federal officials concede, to protect them from encroachment. Some land could be set aside as a national park, and crafts and linguistics could be documented in books and exhibits.
No one knows exactly how many Gullah people remain. Estimates range from 200,000 to 500,000. The recent resurgence of interest, activists said, could help connect Gullah communities in all parts of the country, including Texas and Oklahoma, where they mixed with the local Indian population.
The unique language, a melodic blend of 17th and 18th century English and African dialects, is rarely spoken among the Gullahs, or Geechees, as they are called outside South Carolina. Since the 1950s, their farms, their fishing holes and the sea grass fields that fueled their artistry have fallen victim to bulldozers. Other traces of the culture, such as cooking, medicines, storytelling and even magical hoodoo, are increasingly harder to find.
"For a long time, it was considered negative to be Gullah, though we didn't grow up feeling negative about ourselves," said Delo Washington, a retired professor at California State University at Stanislaus. "But we were considered strange people with a strange language. You couldn't get a job speaking that way. "In the '60s, scholars and others began to take a different view of the Gullah-Geechee culture. Africa was seen in a more positive light, particularly by African-Americans," Washington said.
Events, such as the 15-year-old Gullah Festival held in Beaufort last month, will help to spread word of the plight and keep customs alive, said Washington, whose family still owns land on an adjacent island. And Gullah-Geechees who have moved away, such as U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, are stepping up. Thomas, who grew up on the Georgia coast, has said he would like to write a book about the culture.
Still, the tug-of-war over land is likely to go on.
Land Sold or Stolen for Posh Resorts
All along the coast, land that was passed down through generations is being sold and sometimes stolen, as developers seek to create posh resorts like those found on St. Simons Island, Georgia and Hilton Head. Once predominantly owned and occupied by blacks, the properties have become playgrounds for wealthy, mostly white vacationers.
St. Helena, where the population of about 10,000 remains overwhelmingly Gullah, is one of only a handful of the Sea Islands still controlled by blacks. Here, they own 90 percent of the land and control, for the most part, what happens to it. Activists recently persuaded the Beaufort County government to approve a cultural protection overlay district that makes private developments with gated communities, golf courses and tennis courts illegal on the island. But that doesn't keep developers from trying.
"Some people call us land rich and cash poor, but that doesn't matter. Most of the people here won't give up their heart," said Marquetta Goodwine, a lifelong resident and activist on St. Helena. "Most of us don't believe the land of milk and honey is outside St. Helena. Those who bought into that notion, look where they are now. They've been pushed off their island."
According to Emory Campbell, executive director of the Penn Center, a cultural center on St. Helena, property values have skyrocketed on the islands. Though tributaries surround the island, an acre that sold for U.S. $3,000 there a decade ago could go for as much as $20,000 today. Oceanfront property in other areas can sell for $100,000 to $400,000 an acre, he said. But the Gullahs are not the ones getting rich.
After the Civil War, blacks outnumbered whites in the area 11-1 and were allowed to buy the land for $1.25 an acre. But because much of the land is now shared by heirs, many of whom have moved away, it sometimes is sold for below-market prices set by the courts. In some cases, young family members, eager for cash, practically give it away. But often, the land is forfeited because landowners, many of whom are domestic workers at the posh resorts, cannot afford to pay the escalating property taxes.
"This land is valuable to us because it symbolizes freedom," Campbell said. "We're the ones who stayed here and withstood the heat, the mosquitoes and the malaria. It hurts to see what happens when highways and streets are paved, access to waterways is privatized and we are blocked out."
While outsiders have written much about the Gullah-Geechee people, those who know the culture best failed to write it down. Except for St. Helena, where nuns started one of the earliest schools for former slaves, history has been passed on through word of mouth. But like in many cultures, oral history becomes distorted, and as the older storytellers die, no one is left to inform the young.
"Culture is a dynamic phenomenon. There is no such thing as it remaining constant anywhere in the world," said Beverly John, a sociologist and executive assistant to the president at Chicago State University. "People often say, 'Show me the Gullah culture.' But culture comes from within. It isn't openly practiced. Therefore, the Gullah culture will survive."
quote: "All duh people wut come from africa aw oberseas wuz call Golla and dey talk wut call Golla talk." - Georgia,1936
Until quite recently, it was commonly believed that those who spoke Gullah were speaking what many termed broken English.” Few realized that this language is living evidence of a remarkable transformation that took place from Africa to African American culture. People speaking Gullah is a testimony to one of the great acts of human endurance in the history of the world, the survival of African people away from home.
In the early times, slave holders and their visitors on the rice plantations often commented on the presence of the distinct language among the slave population. They had no idea that they were witnesses to a cultural phenomenon. Right before their eyes were the transformation, adaptation and persistence of a culture.
During the times, our people came from different language and culture groups, and geographical regions. They were brought here to be the main labor force in the rice and cotton industries, responsible for the planting, hoeing, ditching, pounding, plowing, basket making, winnowing, picking, and threshing. It goes without saying that communication was necessary for survival and execution.
The language that we developed was born on African soil as a pidgin, an auxiliary language. As in case with pidgins, it was developed for communication purposes, spoken among various African groups in business transactions and intertribal affairs. By the height of the slave trade, pidgins were firmly placed among African groups. When different Africans were captured and housed together in West Coast holding cells, the pidgins spoken in freedom, became their method of communication in captivity.
As time went on, the main auxiliary language combined the most prominent pidgins, other linguistics features and speech patterns common among them with the English words and vocabulary spoken to and about them by the master class. This creolization set the stage, on African soil, for what is now still spoken and called Gullah. It was sustained because of the large numbers of Africans on rice and Sea Island cotton plantations, the isolation that characterized the regions along the coast and the continued influx of pure Africans smuggled into these isolated areas after the slave trade was prohibited.
The lanuage as it exists today still contains African words and language features that can be traced to African groups today. The absence of the verb to be, final t's , and the use of only two pronouns 'e ( he, she it) and onna (you, us, them) bears witness to the fact that what ever its history, the Gullah language has its own flavor, rules and regulations.
quote: "The survival of African people away from their ancestral home is one of the great acts of human endurance in the history of the world" - John Henrik Clarke
Nearly a half a million Gullah live between Jacksonville, North Carolina and Jacksonville, Florida today. This 500 mile stretch along the Atlantic Ocean and over and between the Rivers that surround it is home to the descendants of the Africans brought to the Carolina Colony beginning in the late 1500s. They live along the interstates and corridors which sometime meander around and touch the borders of Interstate 95 and Highway 17. For nearly five centuries, their lives have been economically and politically tied to this region and the "cash crops" needed for its success whether it be rice or tourism. Places in and around Wilmington, North Carolina, Georgetown and Charleston, South Carolina, Savannah and Jacksonville, Florida figure prominently in the Gullah story from the beginning to now.
Their origin and history began on African soil. During the slave trade, captured Africans, destined for American plantations, were often retained in holding cells along the West African coastlines. This imprisonment brought an unprecedented large number of diferrent Africans together under one roof and formed the basis for the outline and structure of what became and is called Gullah culture. .
By the mid 1700s, these Africans dominated the slave labor force. They became the muscle and mind behind the rice and cotton industries that once lined the waters of the Carolina Slave Coast. Their knowledge of farming, rice, rice cultivation, along with their labor, made the Gullah the most desired and sought after labor of the agricultural South. These Gullah slave farmers made their owners some of the wealthiest businessmen in pre-Civil War America.
It is popular belief that the name Gullah is a distortion of the name Angola, a region that supplied some 40% of the slaves brought to and sold at the Charleston slave market. However, some members of the Gullah community tend to associate the name with the pre American story of the Golas and the Gizzis, two cultural groups living near Liberia during the African slave trade. Members of these groups were also captured and sold in large numbers. Africans from their region along the Windward Coast entered through Charleston and were well represented in the slave population.
In the early days, slaves reserved the name title Gullah for certain members of their communities. The name was not used in the widespread way that it is used today. At that time, it was used more as a handle or prefix as was the case of Golla Jack in the Denmark Vessey Conspiracy of 1822. Until this day, the similarities in the African and American names of these groups, the Golas (Gullah) and the Gizzis (Geechees), could very well be the source of the importance placed on whether one is called Gullah or Geechee today.
The Gullah represent one of the oldest culture groups surviving and living among us today. They are acknowledged for their contributions to the growth, development and success of the Rice and Sea Island cotton industries of the slave period. During the early days of freedom, their underpaid labor contributed to the re-growth and recovery of the region they inhabited. By the the 1940s, the shift from agriculture to tourism made them the dominate labor force in and of the hospitality industry, the chief income in every state wherever they reside in large numbers today.
In the 21st Century, the 500-mile region where the Gullah live is nationally recognized as endangered land right within our midst.
quote: Gullah Food is older than the South and as ancient as the world. It is one of the oldest African and American traditions being practiced in this country today. As it has always been, it is informed by need,availability and environment. The Africans brought to the Carolina colony used the similarities between culinary environments of the low country and the West Coast of Africa to create a food culture that has come to characterize the regions where they live.
One of the biggest ironies is that rice, the grain that had been in African food culture for thousands of years, became the cash crop and reason for the American enslavement of many Gullah people.
For years, the oceans, other bodies of water, and farming practices remained in the backdrop while rice, seafood and vegetables (corn, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, collards, turnips, peanuts, okra, eggplant,beans and peas) brought the connection between both sides of the Atlantic full circle. Slave cooks simply adapted their African cooking traditions to American soil.
Even today, cooking traditions remain somewhat consistent. One pot dishes, deep frying, rice dishes, sea food, boiling and steaming, baking in ashes, basic and natural seasonings, and food types consistent with those received in the weekly rations on plantations are all characteristics of Gullah food.
The food is characterized by the ever presence of rice and a distinct “taste” present wherever Gullah people are cooking. The recipes are simply frames; the art work is created in the taste buds of the preparer. Try to obtain a recipe or cooking directions from Gullah cooks, and you will more than likely get the generic response, “ah ‘on measur.” They will tell you that they cook “cordin’ ta taste.” This taste is passed down from generation to generation, but unlike other ingredients, it is an elusive quality guided by memory and taste buds, almost impossible to explain in words. It is an ingredient that must be experienced. Tasted first, then duplicated each time Gullah food is prepared.
Under the task system used on most rice plantations, each slave was assigned a certain task each day. These tasks included ground breaking, digging trenches, plowing, hoeing, harrowing, threshing and other specific tasks related to rice farming. Unlike gang labor employed on cotton and tobacco plantations, when slaves on rice plantations finished their assigned tasks, they were generally free to tend their own gardens, fish or hunt for wild game. As a consequence, they were often able to enhance and supplement their ration supply with vegetables from their own gardens, natural seasonings, wild game, chicken, eggs and fish. These supplements also include leftovers given to them during hog killings. Feet, ears, entrails, jowls, heads and the like are still favorite meats for celebrations.
Slave cooks simply incorporated the weekly rations given to slave families into the African cooking traditions of their ancestors. A glance at the average food ration given on Brookgreen Plantation in Murrells in the 1800’s reads like a grocery list for a 21st century household.
Simply speaking, Gullah food is about ancestral ties and American living, adaptability, creativity, making do, livin’ ot da waddah and on the lan’. It is a culture within the culture, with its own history, heritage, and distinction. It is a food culture handed down through practice more so than with words It lives among us in the restaurants, homes, kitchens, backyards, family reunions, church anniversaries, birthday parties and other celebrations that dot across the grounds that the Gullah call home.
The Gullah language, a Creole blend of Elizabethan English and African languages, was born of necessity on Africa's slave coast, and developed in the slave communities of the isolated plantations of the coastal South. Even after the sea islands were freed in 1861, the Gullah speech flourished because access to the islands was by water only until the 1950's. Today, one hears phrases like
Come Jine We. Ketch ob de Day Lok Ya Wantem Shrimps
But, Gullah is more than a language or dialect......... ................it is a culture.
Thousands of enslaved Africans survived the middle passage to reach the sea island shores. The majority of the slaves, 40,000, came from a section of Africa known as Angola. With the people --Mende, Kisi, Malinke, and Bantu-- came the soul of Africa. Their ancestral traditions survived as well. The words "Gullah" and "Geechee" have come to describe that legacy.
Gullah is a language of cadence and accents, words and intonations. The Gullah "shout" is a rhythmic translation of forbidden drums and the oldest of plantation melodies. Old spirituals and songs spoke of storms and other events in the lives of the slaves and were used as codes for meeting times and places and as messages for freedom.
Still standing are the Praise Houses, with a sacred past and present. The culture of the African elders met its people here, combining religious worship, consolation, and hope.
This rich culture flourishes today; in their language, their music, their art, their skills and their foods. Storytellers spin their tales, entwining fun and wisdom. Choirs preserve the haunting songs and the old rhythms. Sweetgrass basket weavers, "long strip" quilters, and fabric artists combine their modern materials and ancestral skills in ancient ways to produce remarkable wares. Chefs create the magic of the old recipes. This is the heritage of a Gullah.
The Gullah Festival is held each May and the Penn Center Heritage Days celebration takes place in November.
www.Gullah.sc is South Carolina's premier web site to learn about Gullah people, language, traditions, and tourism events. Gullah is the language spoken by the Lowcountry's first black inhabitants. The language and culture still thrive today in and around the Lowcountry, especially the areas of Charleston and Beaufort, South Carolina.
In the Low Country there are a number of tours that offer visitors the ability to learn all about the Gullah traditions, authentic arts and crafts, Gullah presentations, music, and to learn more about the Gullah history, and the the rich and varied contributions made by Black Charlestonians.
Gullah : People, Heritage, and Lifestyles
The Gullah are African Americans who live in the Low Country of South Carolina, which includes both the coastal plain and the Sea Islands. Historically, the Gullah region once extended north to the Cape Fear area on the coast of North Carolina and south to the vicinity of Jacksonville on the coast of Florida. Today the Gullah area is confined to the South Carolina and Georgia Low Country. The Gullah people are also called Geechee.
The Gullah are known for preserving their African linguistic and cultural heritage. They speak an English-based creole language containing many African loanwords and significant influences from African languages in grammar and sentence structure. The Gullah language is related to Jamaican Creole, Bahamian Dialect, and the Krio language of Sierra Leone in West Africa. Gullah storytelling, food, music, folk beliefs, crafts, farming and fishing traditions.
"Gullah" and "Geechee"
The name "Gullah" may derive from Angola, a country in southwestern Africa where many of the Gullahs' ancestors originated. Some scholars have also suggested it comes from Gola, an ethnic group living on the border area between Sierra Leone and Liberia in West Africa. The name "Geechee" may come from Kissi (pronounced "Geezee"), a tribe living in the border area between Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia.
African Roots
Most of the Gullahs' ancestors were brought to the South Carolina through the port of Charleston. Charleston was the most important port in North America for the Atlantic slave trade, and almost half of the enslaved Africans brought into what is now the United States came through the port of Charleston.
The largest group of Africans brought into Charleston and Savannah came from the West African rice-growing region that stretches from what are now Senegal, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, and Liberia. South Carolina and Georgia rice planters once called this region the "Rice Coast". The second-largest group of Africans brought through Charleston came from Angola in Southern Africa, but smaller numbers also came from the Gold Coast (modern Ghana) and the West Indies.
Origin of Gullah Culture
The Gullah have been able to preserve so much of their African cultural heritage because of geography and climate. By the mid-1700s, the South Carolina Low Country was covered by thousands of acres of rice fields; and African farmers from the "Rice Coast" brought the skills that made rice one of the most successful industries in early America. But the semi-tropical climate that made the Low Country such an excellent place for rice production, also made it vulnerable to the spread of malaria and yellow fever. These tropical diseases were carried by mosquitoes brought aboard the slave ships from Africa. Mosquitoes bred in the swamps and inundated rice fields of the Low Country, and malaria and yellow fever soon became endemic.
Africans more resistant to tropical fevers than the European slave owners. More Africans were brought into the Low Country as the rice industry expanded, and by about 1708 South Carolina had a black majority. Fearing disease, many white planters left the Low Country during the rainy spring and summer months when fever ran rampant, leaving their overseers in charge of the plantations. Having much less contact with white colonists than slaves in white majority colonies, the Gullahs were able to preserve their African language, culture, and community life.
Gullah customs and traditions African influences are found in every aspect of the Gullahs' traditional way of life:
•Gullah word "Guber" for peanut derives straight from Kongo(Congo) word "N'guba" •Gullah rice dishes called "red rice" and "okra soup" are similar to West African "jollof rice" and "okra soup". Jollof rice is a style of cooking brought by the Wolof and Mandé peoples of West Africa. •The Gullah version of "gumbo" has its roots in African cooking. "Gumbo" is derived from a word in the Umbundu language of Angola, meaning "okra." •Gullah rice farmers once used the mortar and pestle and "fanner" (winnowing basket) similar to tools used by West African rice farmers. •Gullah beliefs about "hags", "haunts" and "plat-eyes" are similar to African beliefs about malevolent ancestors, witches, and "devils" (forest spirits). •Gullah "root doctors" protect their clients against dangerous spiritual forces using similar ritual objects to those employed by African medicine men. •Gullah herbal medicines are similar to traditional African remedies. •The Gullah "seekin" ritual is similar to coming of age ceremonies in West African secret societies like Poro and Sande. •Gullah stories about "Bruh Rabbit" are similar to West and Central African trickster tales about the clever and conniving rabbit, spider, and tortoise. •Gullah spirituals, shouts, and other musical forms employ the "call and response" method commonly used in African music. •Gullah "sweetgrass baskets" are almost identical to coil baskets made by the Wolof people in Senegal. •Gullah "strip quilts" mimic the design of cloth woven with the traditional strip loom used throughout West Africa. The famous kente cloth from Ghana is woven on the strip loom. •The folk song Michael Row the Boat Ashore (or Michael Row Your Boat Ashore) comes from the Gullah culture.
Gullah People and the Civil War period
When the Civil War began, the Union rushed to blockade the Confederate shipping. Many White planters on the Sea Islands, fearing an invasion by the US naval forces, abandoned their plantations and fled to the mainland. When Union forces arrived on the Sea Islands in 1861, they found the Gullah people eager for their freedom, and eager as well to defend it. Many Gullahs served with distinction in the Union Army's First South Carolina Volunteers. The Sea Islands were the first place in the South where slaves were freed. Long before the War ended, Quaker missionaries from Pennsylvania came down to start schools for the newly freed slaves. Penn Center, now a Gullah community organization on Saint Helena Island, South Carolina, began as the very first school for freed slaves.
After the Civil War, the Gullahs' isolation from the outside world increased in some respects. The rice planters on the mainland gradually abandoned their plantations and moved away. A series of hurricanes devastated the crops in the 1890s. Left alone in remote rural areas in the Low Country, the Gullahs continued to practice their traditional culture with little influence from the outside world well into the 20th Century.
Gullah People and Modern times
In recent years the Gullah people have been fighting to keep control of their traditional lands. Since the 1960s, resort development on the Sea Islands has threatened to push Gullahs off family lands they have lived on since for generations.
The Gullahs have also struggled to preserve their traditional culture. In 2005, the Gullah community unveiled a translation of the New Testament in the Gullah language, a project that took more than 20 years to complete. The Gullahs achieved another victory in 2006 when the U.S. Congress passed the "Gullah/Geechee Cultural Heritage Corridor Act" that provides $10 million over ten years for the preservation and interpretation of historic sites relating to Gullah culture. The "heritage corridor" will extend from southern North Carolina to northern Florida. The project will be administered by the US National Park Service with strong input from the Gullah community.
Gullahs have also reached out to West Africa.
Gullah groups made three celebrated "homecomings" to Sierra Leone in 1989, 1997, and 2005. Sierra Leone is at the heart of the traditional rice-growing region of West Africa where many of the Gullahs' ancestors originated. Bunce Island, the British slave castle in Sierra Leone, sent many African captives to Charleston and Savannah during the mid- and late 1700s. These dramatic homecomings were the subject of three documentary films -- "Family Across the Sea" (1990), "The Language You Cry In" (1998), and "Priscilla's Homecoming" (in production).
Over the years, the Gullahs have attracted many historians, linguists, folklorists, and anthropologists interested in their rich cultural heritage. Many academic books on that subject have been published. The Gullah have also become a symbol of cultural pride for blacks throughout the United States and a subject of general interest in the media. This has given rise to countless newspaper and magazine articles, documentary films, and children's books on Gullah culture and to a number of popular novels set in the Gullah region.
Cultural survival
The media typically portray the Gullah people as living only on the Sea Islands, but Gullahs have always lived through out in the Low Country. The media also portray Gullah culture as being "near extinction" because of resort development on the islands. Many Sea Island communities are, indeed, under serious threat, but there are islands that have never been subjected to tourism development where the Gullah way of life is very much intact. Most Gullah people live in coastal areas where resort development is not an issue and where their culture also still thrives today.
Far from being near extinction, Gullah culture has proven to be particularly resilient. Gullah traditions are still strong in urban areas of the Low Country, like Charleston. Many Gullahs migrated to New York starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and these urban migrants have not lost their identity. Gullahs have their own neighborhood churches and sometimes send their children back to rural communities in South Carolina during the summer months to be reared by grandparents, uncles and aunts. Gullah people living in New York also frequently return to the low country to retire.
Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
htp
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks. Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
htp [/QUOTE]
The word is spelled 'Goober' not "guber." What you wrote above is not Creole but an American southern accent/dialect.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Sorry you don't know what you are talking about. There is no Gullah culture or language in the U.S. There is no Gullah culture outside of the general African-American population. There is nothing different or unique in the Gullah culture that you can't find in the general African-American populations. I already told you Gullah people speak American English.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Sorry you don't know what you are talking about. There is no Gullah culture or language in the U.S. There is no Gullah culture outside of the general African-American population. There is nothing different or unique in the Gullah culture that you can't find in the general African-American populations. I already told you Gullah people speak American English.
I pity your lack of reading comprehension....the FACTUAL INFORMATION I posted (since my personal observation and interaction wasn't good enough FACT for you) from various sources surely begs to differ from your OPINION.
Have a lovely day...ignorance is bliss, so I'm sure your day will be outstanding!
htp
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
@ Bettyboo-
btw...
quote: Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
Actually, I am Jamaican-American...and that is far from Southern American dialect, lolololol...nor is it Gullah, but Jamaican patois....I actually should have typed it as: "Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina cawna an' fold up unda yuhself n suck out yuh renk cratches wha leakin like bruk freeza."
Again, have a lovely day; I'm sure it will be an outstanding one for you
You're now dismissed.
htp
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
TruthAndRights and Bettyboo
Please take your petty and pointless bulls**t to another topic or forum; You will NOT derail this one!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: @ Bettyboo-
btw...
quote: Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
Actually, I am Jamaican-American...and that is far from Southern American dialect, lolololol...nor is it Gullah, but Jamaican patois....I actually should have typed it as: "Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina cawna an' fold up unda yuhself n suck out yuh renk cratches wha leakin like bruk freeza."
Again, have a lovely day; I'm sure it will be an outstanding one for you
You're now dismissed.
htp
You keep speaking English with a dialect. What you wrote above is not a different language from English but an accent and a dialect you stupid fvck. I already told you that the Gullah people don't have a language or culture to call their own. There is nothing outside of the Gullah culture or so-called "language" that can't be found in the general African-American population.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
You dumb, absolutely retarded person, GET OFF OF THIS TOPIC NOW!!!
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: TruthAndRights and Bettyboo
Please take your petty and pointless bulls**t to another topic or forum; You will NOT derail this one!
It was not my intent to derail this thread- so I will apologize, on my part, for the diversion. However: 1) the Gullah issue was brought up in THIS thread, so I addressed it where it was- HERE; and 2) the speaking of Truth and the correction of UN-Truth is never petty nor pointless- much less bullshit; much less correcting her on something she clearly knows not a real thing about; denying that a people's culture exists is like denial of the existence of a people; something I couldn't ignore- her failure to overstand after I showed her the Truth, I can ignore (I've been finished with this topic since my last response to her).
At any rate, I extend my apologies...and I will accept yours for the way you came off (towards me, at least).
Have a nice day/weekend.
htp
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Jari-Ankhamun scribbled: ------------------------------------- Define North Africa
Define East Africa -------------------------------------
North Africa - Any area north of the center point in Africa
East Africa - Any area east of the center point in Africa
Jari-Ankhamun, unlike you and Wally I don't run from questions.
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
North Africa - Any area north of the center point in Africa
East Africa - Any area east of the center point in Africa -------------------------------
It took you how many days to scribble this Eurocentric pathetic response herpes Boy, what kept you The Grey Puppon???
Lets see if Argyle payed attention in Geography....
DEFINE THE CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS NORTH OF THE THIS SO CALLED CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS EAST OF THIS CENTER POINT IN AFRICA!!
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
Argyle104 scribbled -------------------------
Folks this Argyle Character has been intellectually trashed, notice how long it took for him to Define West Africa etc. He is a European Yellow tooth mongrel, a Irish/English breed patty...
the Half Irish Mongrel was went home crying or should we say "Caturwalling" to his "MUM"
CAN YOU PLEASE PASS THE GREY PUPPON!!
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
argyle104 ------------------ we are awaiting your response...
Do yo see this folks, this European mongrel has taken almost a month to come up with a complete answer. Are the European schools that bad, are they failing this Mongrel..??? ------------------
Agyle104 what is the hold up..??? Mindovermatter still hasyou scared??? You scared Boy....!!!!
Argyle has still yet to define ---------------- DEFINE THE CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS NORTH OF THE THIS SO CALLED CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS EAST OF THIS CENTER POINT IN AFRICA!!
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: [QUOTE]Originally posted by argyle104: [qb] Wally wrote:What precisely is your point? Do you have a point or are you simply doodling...
The Gullah are African Americans, who, like the Creole of Louisiana speak a patois of African-English/French and like all African Americans are the descendants of Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw, Ovimbundu, Kimbundu, Mongo, Luba, Kongo, Mangbetu-Azande, Fang, Punu, Nzeiby, Mbede,...
By Mande, I assume you actually mean Mende...because Mande is an ethno-linguistic group. I don't know about all of the ethnic groups you listed, but definitely some of them like the Malinke (Mandinka), Yoruba, Akan, etc. I question the Tuareg and Moors...at least directly. And I doubt they would have made up a major part of the slave population.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Here's the problem Wally. Your theory may be correct, but until there's archeological evidence to back it up...most people won't believe it. I believe Central Africa (in particular the Sahara) is the key. Many of these "tribes" already claim they came from the East or North-East. We have to hope to begin to find links. People will always say linguistic evidence can be manufactured and twisted to say what you want. The same can even be said about genetic evidence. What is always irrefutable is hard, archeology.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Here's the problem Wally. Your theory may be correct, but until there's archeological evidence to back it up...most people won't believe it. I believe Central Africa (in particular the Sahara) is the key. Many of these "tribes" already claim they came from the East or North-East. We have to hope to begin to find links. People will always say linguistic evidence can be manufactured and twisted to say what you want. The same can even be said about genetic evidence. What is always irrefutable is hard, archeology.
The entire basis of your argument is predicated on a false assumption; that what I am presenting is a theory!
(Theory: An unproven speculation)
a) I am not theoretically from Louisiana. I am!
b) I am not theoretically an African American. I am!
c) It isn't theoretical that at least two-thirds of the slaves arriving in Louisiana, during a specific period, were Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); creators of Louisiana's Creole culture...
All of this is not only a matter of factual historical record but of my own personal knowledge of who I am as a person!
Why in heavens name would I need an archeologist to tell me my own history, (but alas, that's why selling the Snake Oil of "your roots DNA" is such a lucrative scam...)
d) But my ancestry, is not limited to the Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande - why is there a Congo Square in New Orleans?
I am specifically personalizing this in order to demonstrate that reality can not be successfully concealed behind the curtain of "archeology" if challenged.
So, let us start from the beginning; prove to me that I am NOT an African American from Louisiana...Then work your ways backwards...
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
Agyle104 ------------
Oh Argie....Argie BOY!!!
We Await you to define ---------------- DEFINE THE CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS NORTH OF THE THIS SO CALLED CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS EAST OF THIS CENTER POINT IN AFRICA!!
What is taking so long you European Mongrel, did you not say you don't run from questions???
People, the intellectual thrashings I have administered to Jari-Ankhamun has driven him mad!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Looks as though the 'children' here have, once again, glommed onto another topic of mine!
glom: to latch onto something, steal, grab, attach something that is totally irrelevant to the topic...
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Here's the problem Wally. Your theory may be correct, but until there's archeological evidence to back it up...most people won't believe it. I believe Central Africa (in particular the Sahara) is the key. Many of these "tribes" already claim they came from the East or North-East. We have to hope to begin to find links. People will always say linguistic evidence can be manufactured and twisted to say what you want. The same can even be said about genetic evidence. What is always irrefutable is hard, archeology.
The entire basis of your argument is predicated on a false assumption; that what I am presenting is a theory!
(Theory: An unproven speculation)
a) I am not theoretically from Louisiana. I am!
b) I am not theoretically an African American. I am!
c) It isn't theoretical that at least two-thirds of the slaves arriving in Louisiana, during a specific period, were Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); creators of Louisiana's Creole culture...
All of this is not only a matter of factual historical record but of my own personal knowledge of who I am as a person!
Why in heavens name would I need an archeologist to tell me my own history, (but alas, that's why selling the Snake Oil of "your roots DNA" is such a lucrative scam...)
d) But my ancestry, is not limited to the Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande - why is there a Congo Square in New Orleans?
I am specifically personalizing this in order to demonstrate that reality can not be successfully concealed behind the curtain of "archeology" if challenged.
So, let us start from the beginning; prove to me that I am NOT an African American from Louisiana...Then work your ways backwards...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources (ie., slaves) from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
Posted by DhulAlQarnain (Member # 17584) on :
Wait a minute what is the point of all of this? What are you looking for or to decipher? Is it something written in Beni-Amer or another tribe. Like most countries, we speak alot of slang so some things are called by many different things.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by DhulAlQarnain: man=tak woman=takat mountain=ribaab water=yam boy=oot girl=oor soul=Gin'a Good= Da ayiitu place= Di'iy-a
Wait a minute what is the point of all of this? What are you looking for or to decipher? Is it something written in Beni-Amer or another tribe. Like most countries, we speak alot of slang so some things are called by many different things.
The point of all of this is science - the empirical verification of the evidence...
For example, you have provided some words which we will accept as factual in To Bedawi...
let us take your first word;
man = tak
- now in the Mdu Ntr we have
man = tha
let us take your second word;
place = Di'y-a
- now in the Mdu Ntr we have
place = dje
Now we don't all have to work at NASA in order to see the genetic relationship between these two examples; so please give this forum a more extensive To Bedawi vocabulary...please...this is incredibly wonderful!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observes the African Americans whom they past must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly sublimely see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley: Wolof, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Read this post from its beginning, which postulates that the Wolof, The Lebu, The Fulani, The Yoruba, The Soninke, The Akan..., are emigrants from Ancient Egypt and which provides documentation to substantiate this claim; and because African Americans are the descendants of all of these groups would also indicate a direct lineal descent from this ancient Nilotic Civilization - Keme.t niut... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Move it up.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Here's the problem Wally. Your theory may be correct, but until there's archeological evidence to back it up...most people won't believe it. I believe Central Africa (in particular the Sahara) is the key. Many of these "tribes" already claim they came from the East or North-East. We have to hope to begin to find links. People will always say linguistic evidence can be manufactured and twisted to say what you want. The same can even be said about genetic evidence. What is always irrefutable is hard, archeology.
The entire basis of your argument is predicated on a false assumption; that what I am presenting is a theory!
(Theory: An unproven speculation)
a) I am not theoretically from Louisiana. I am from Louisiana!
b) I am not theoretically an African American. I am an African American!
c) It isn't theoretical that at least two-thirds of the slaves arriving in Louisiana, during a specific period, were Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); creators of Louisiana's Creole culture...
All of this is not only a matter of factual historical record but of my own personal knowledge of who I am as a person!
Why in heavens name would I need an archeologist to tell me my own history, (but alas, that's why selling the Snake Oil of "your roots DNA" is such a lucrative scam...)
d) But my ancestry, is not limited to the Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande - why is there a Congo Square in New Orleans?
I am specifically personalizing this in order to demonstrate that reality can not be successfully concealed behind the curtain of "archeology" if challenged.
So, let us start from the beginning; prove to me that I am NOT an African American from Louisiana...Then work your ways backwards...
Posted by the lion (Member # 17353) on :
Are all Europeans Greek?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observe the African Americans whom they past must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly sublimely see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the brainless lion: Are all Europeans Greek?
No, but weren't all Egyptians African?? And aren't all Sudanese African for that matter also?? I'm pretty sure most of them were black since that is what indigenous Africans are called. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word
(from) Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat) (to) Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff (to) African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right (to) Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct (to) African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair (to) African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egypt Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness (to) ~ African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright (to) ~ African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance (to) ~ African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
also,
Ancient Egypt: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love Bou.i (My.Bou) = "My love, My admiration", "My delight", "My esteemed (one)"... (to) African Americanism: My boo = (see above)
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully (to) wolof: dega - to understand (to) African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
<><><>
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia (to) Ancient Egypt: okre (jkr) (to) Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀ (to) African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
<><><>
...but human vocabulary does not have to necessarily come directly to America by Africans, but can come indirectly...
Ancient Egypt: Baby; Baba, Babe, Baby, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a dialectical transformation back into its original form!
<><><>
(from) Ancient Egypt: won noufre - "eternally happy" (to) Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy" (to) Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy"
.................
Posted by the lion (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by the brainless lion: Are all Europeans Greek?
No, but weren't all Egyptians African??
all Africans are not Egyptian all Europeans are not Greek
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...expanded examples of the correspondence between Ancient Egyptian and Yoruba:
Khenti amenti (big words of Osiris Yenti – yenti (big, very big)
Khepara (beetle) - Akpakara (beetle)
Khu (to kill) - Khu (death)
ko (reject) - ko (reject)
Kom (complete) - Kon (complete)
Kot (boat) Oko (boat)
Kot (build) - Ko (build)
Kum (a club) - Kumo( a club)
Kun / qun (brave man) - Ekun (title of a brave man)
Kurubu (round) Kurubu (deep and round)
Kurud (round) - Kurudu (round)
Ma (to know) - Ma (to know)
Ma or mi (to breath) - Mi. (to breathe)
Ma-su (to mould) - Ma or su (to mould)
Maat (goddess of justice) - Mate (goddess of justice)
Mhebi (humble) - Mebi, humble to ones family
Min (a god) - Emin (spirit)
miri (water) - miri (dazzle of water)
Mu (water) - Mu (drink water)
nù (to wipe, erase) - nù (to wipe, erase)
Nam (water god) - Inama (water god)
naprit (seed) - naprit (seed)
Nen, (the primeval water mother) - Nene (mother)
ni (I) - mi (I)
No (a water god) - Eno (a water god)
noki (fabulous beast) - inoki (fabulous beast)
Oba (to direct, captain, authority) - Oba (king)
Odonit (festival) - Odon (festival)
Ola (Exalted) - Olu (deity, God)
omau (child) - omo (child)
Omi (water) - Omi (water)
Omitjener (deep water) - Omijen (deep water)
On ( living person) - One ( living person)
Oni (Osiris' ethnicity ) - Oni (title of the king of Ife)
Osa (tide) - Osa ( tide)
Osa (time) - Osa (time)
Osiri (a water god) - Oshiri (a water god)
oufi (crown) - kufi (crown)
Pa (open) - Pa (break open)
Penka (divide) - Kpen (divide)
Po (many) - Po (many/cheap)
Ra (possess) - Ra (possess/buy)
Ra (time) - Ira (time)
Ra -Shu (light after darkness) - Uran-shu (the light of the moon)
ran (name) - ran (call me..)
Re - Ire : That which is good, goodness; (ba.re.ka) , blessing
Rekha (knowledge) - Larikha (knowledge)
Ren( animal foot) - Ren (to walk)
Reti (to beseech) - Retin (to listen)
ririt (dirty) - riri (dirty, like a hippo)
Ro (talk) - Ro (to think)
Run-ka (spirit name) - Oruko (name)
Saddu (abode of the dead) - Sadu (abode of the dead)
Salug (god of) - Saluga (god of )
Sami (water god) - Sami (a water god)
Sata (perfect) - Santan (perfect)
Se (to create) - Se (to create)
Semati (door keeper) - Sema (lock/shut the door)
Sen (group of worshippers) - Sen ( to worship)
Shabu (watcher) - Ashonbo (watcher)
Shekiri (water god) - Shekiri (a water god)
Sueg (a fool) - Suegbe (a fool)
Ta (land) - Ita (land junction)
Ta (sell / offer) - Ta (sell/offer)
Ta(spread out) - Ta (spread out)
Tan (complete) - Tan (complete)
Tebu (a town) - Tebu (a town)
Un (living person) - Una (living person)
Unas (lake of fire) - Una (fire)
Win (to be) - Wino (to be)
Wu (rise) - Wu (rise
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Move it up.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observes the African Americans whom they past must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly sublimely see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley: Wolof, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa...
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observes the African Americans whom they past must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly sublimely see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley: Wolof, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa...
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era...
Most ancient Egyptians had features that were more relatively more similar to Somalis, Sudanese and Ethiopians rather than West Africans where most of us AA's are from. Most of us are more similar to the Kushites that's indisputable. yet even more similar to West Africans because the vast majority of us came from West Africa.
Egypt was not a "pan-African civilization". That's completely made up. Where is your supporting evidence for that? Wally never gives sources. The Egyptian empire the Egyptian empire stretched from Northern Syria to the Sudan. They did not colonize Central, West and South Africa and had minimal influence there.
You can take any two ancient religions form totally unrelated ares of the world, on different continents and find some similarities. You will find a lot of coincidences because humans often come up with the same ideas in different places often without knowledge of the other places.
To call ancient Egypt a "pan African civilization" is a big stretch based on wishful thinking.
This line of thinking is actually Eurocentric without realizing it. The subliminal concept is that Egypt is more important because of it's influence on European culture and that European culture is more similar to it than it is to the rest of African culture.
Why does everything have to be compared to that yardstick?
Unwittingly we are still in the matrix
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:
Note also that these totemic/ancestral names would come to mean essentially the same as the Greater Ntr Name of Ancient Egyptians; Rome, Lomi or "The Men/The People"
a) Akan = "first people" in the Akan language
b) Oromo = "people," resurrected human being, people descended from Horo, in Oromo
c) Wolof = "people" of Jollof, in Wolof (not illustrated)
... Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
We now have Egyptian Y-chromosome data the makes it clear that the Egyptians were closely related to West Africans-not Horners.
The reality that King Tut carried the y-chromosome R1b illustrates the West African-Egyptian connection.
The frequency of R1b among West African groups: Fulani, Mandekan,and Pygmy range between 86-100% according to Crusiani et al,2010.
This means that King Tut can be Rb1 and still be African.
It also explains why West African languages are related to Egyptian.
.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
quote: Most ancient Egyptians had features that were more relatively more similar to Somalis, Sudanese and Ethiopians rather than West Africans where most of us AA's are from. Most of us are more similar to the Kushites that's indisputable. yet even more similar to West Africans because the vast majority of us came from West Africa.
Then by default African Americans look like the Ancient Egyptians. Since many African Americans look like Sudanese, Somalis, and Ethiopians then by your own admission they look like the Ancient Egyptians.
These people are so easy to defeat. No wonder they fear Argyle.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
wrote: ------------------------------------- yet even more similar to West Africans because the vast majority of us came from West Africa. -------------------------------------
People notice how this statement comes with absolutely no substantiation. It is sheer fantasy on the poster's part.
However for humor's sake lets pretend this is true. It still doesn't discount the ancestry that African Americans have with the rest of Africa and Asia.
People they are now in full retreat. You see first it was only "west" Africa, now that scholarship has exposed that premise for the lie it is, it is now "most/majority/etc" come from so called "west" Africa. They use "most/majority/etc" to try and keep you sandboxed in so called "west" Africa. It won't work.
Folks, as you can see I have defeated him once again. LOOOOOOOOOOOOL! : )
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Here's an interesting find that I culled for another topic...
It is the feminine article "the" and is pronounced "da" in the Mdu Ntr and is remarkably the same as the African American expression "da" which means the same thing - "I was in da club."
... Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Here's an interesting find that I culled for another topic...
It is the feminine article "the" and is pronounced "da" in the Mdu Ntr and is remarkably the same as the African American expression "da" which means the same thing - "I was in da club."
...
Great fine.
Wally you have the material for a great book within these pages. I hope one day you can edit the material and publish it as a short book.
.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
incredible. so called "eboniccs" are actually ancient Egyptian derived.
Maybe other connections can be found.
what for example is the ancient etymology of "bee-otch" and "steez"?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: incredible. so called "eboniccs" are actually ancient Egyptian derived.
Maybe other connections can be found.
what for example is the ancient etymology of "bee-otch" and "steez"?
The research indicates that many Afro- Americans speak Ebonics. Ebonic speakers use an African morphology and syntax analogous to that found among Niger-Congo speaking people in West Africa, and an English vocabulary.
As a result these Afro-Americans have a different orthography, phonetic system and deep grammatical structure from Standard American English (SAE). This causes manifold Ebonic speakers to have difficulty grasping the correct SAE phonemes represented by its symbols and reading in general. This failure to match Ebonics and SAE interfers with the development of reading fluency among some speakers of SAE.
The psychological literature makes it clear that our ability to use language will determine our success in school. It is therefore language that allows us to determine strategies for problem solving, word meanings, factual knowledge and procedures for doing things.
There is an innate mechanism for learning language. Language in humans is an instinct that results from interaction between a child and his environment, culture and ethnic origin. This process provides the child with the necessary phonemic elements to create words to name objects.
During the slave trade African slaves were brought to America from West Africa. In this area people speak the Niger-Congo languages.
During much of the slavery period African slaves were usually isolated from white Americans. But it is believed that the English spoken in the south and west counties of Britain may have been the model of English acquired by the slaves in Virginia.
Years of social separation of African Americans and whites, first during slavery, and later due to segregation led to a continuity of Niger-Congo linguistic features among many African Americans. Traditionally Ebonics is seen as a form of SAE with a transformed phonology or surface structure pursuant to the transformational theory of linguistics developed by Chomsky.
This view of Ebonics is false. Ebonic speakers use an African 1) morphology and syntax, and 2) a vocabulary that is English.
Ebonics has evidence of Niger-Congo influence in grammatical features, vocabulary survivals, consonant clustering avoidance and absent phonics. In Ebonics the word dig, is used to mean understand. This corresponds to the Wolof word "dega" 'to understand'. For example, lets compare sentences:
SAE: Do you understand English?
Ebonics: D'ya dig black talk?
Wolof: Dega nga olof?
In African languages, to acknowledge that everything is all right you would say "waw" along with the emphatic particle "kay", this would be pronounced "Wow Kay". This corresponds to the American use of the phrase "OK", to signify "all right, certainly".
In the Niger-Congo languages and Ebonics, the final consonant clusters are never pronounced, e.g.,
SAE … Ebonics
left …lef
desk …des
fast …fas
We also find that Ebonics and Niger-Congo speakers will not produce certain sounds found in SAE, e.g.,
SAE … Ebonics
think … tink
then … den
drift …drif
build …bil
This clearly indicates that Ebonics and SAE are mutually intelligible, but like German and Norwegian (which belong to the same family of languages as English) they are mutually distinct.
.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The etymology of "Ebony"; and hence "Ebonics"
Ebony: Any of several African and Asian trees of the genusDiospyros, providing a hard, durable, black wood.
Iboni (ee.boh.nee)
Heboni (hay.boh.nee)
The determinative = Khet (Shay) = "wood"
... Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
oromo people contend that they are the primary descendants of ancient egyptian peoples. they might be a branch of descendants. why no one has ever brought up the oromo link to ancient egypt?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom:
quote:oromo people contend that they are the primary descendants of ancient egyptian peoples. they might be a branch of descendants. why no one has ever brought up the oromo link to ancient egypt?
<><><> Come on now, this info is posted on this very page! <><><>
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Note also that these totemic/ancestral names would come to mean essentially the same as the Greater Ntr Name of Ancient Egyptians; Rome, Lomi or "The Men/The People"
a) Akan = "first people" in the Akan language
b) Oromo = "people," resurrected human being, people descended from Horo, in Oromo
c) Wolof = "people" of Jollof, in Wolof (not illustrated)
...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
They said AA's weren't Egyptian but in fact African Americans average 2.3 % North African
Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
we aren't egyptian. i do believe that everyone who is african and african descent can be proud of that great african kingdom. we aa's have geneology from all over africa.
Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom:
quote:oromo people contend that they are the primary descendants of ancient egyptian peoples. they might be a branch of descendants. why no one has ever brought up the oromo link to ancient egypt?
<><><> Come on now, this info is posted on this very page! <><><>
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Note also that these totemic/ancestral names would come to mean essentially the same as the Greater Ntr Name of Ancient Egyptians; Rome, Lomi or "The Men/The People"
a) Akan = "first people" in the Akan language
b) Oromo = "people," resurrected human being, people descended from Horo, in Oromo
c) Wolof = "people" of Jollof, in Wolof (not illustrated)
...
thanks. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom we aren't egyptian. i do believe that everyone who is african and african descent can be proud of that great african kingdom. we aa's have geneology from all over africa.
One can understand why you self-describe youself as ...
Can you not see the very contradiction in your post?
"African Americans have genealogy from all over Africa (but) we aren't Egyptian."
is the same contradiction as, for example,
"European Americans have genealogy from all over Europe (but) we aren't Irish."
Which is to say:
"European Americans have genealogy from all over Europe except from Ireland."
...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
That's right Serpent all Europeans are Irish all African Americans are Egyptian
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: That's right Serpent all Europeans are Irish all African Americans are Egyptian
No, idiot.
a) European Americans are descendants of the English, Irish, Italians, Swedes, Slavs, Czechs, Greeks, Germans...
b) African Americans are descendants of the Wolof, Yoruba, Dogon, Tuareg, Moors, Igbo, Vai, Fulani, Ancient Kushites, Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Kongo...
Note: In this case, African and European Americans refers specifically to those Americans whose ancestry in the United States is at least 4 (120 yrs) generations in the U.S.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] That's right Serpent all Europeans are Irish all African Americans are Egyptian
No, idiot.
o.k., no
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
a) European Americans are descendants of the English, Irish, Italians, Swedes, Slavs, Czechs, Greeks, Germans...
b) African Americans are descendants of the Wolof, Yoruba, Dogon, Tuareg, Moors, Igbo, Vai, Fulani, Ancient Kushites, Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Kongo...
Note: In this case, African and European Americans refers specifically to those Americans whose ancestry in the United States is at least 4 (120 yrs) generations in the U.S.
The 2 generations of Caroline Kennedy...
1) Caroline Kennedy
↓
2) parents
John F. Kennedy Jacqueline Lee Bouvier
↓
3) grandparents
John Bouvier III (France) Joseph P. Kennedy (Ireland) Janet Lee (England) Rose Elizabeth Fitzgerald (Ireland)
...and the farther back you go, the more varied is the ethnic ancestry...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^Like I said all Europeans are Irish
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ancient Egyptian origin of the Onicha people of Nigeria and chagrin that the ancestral homeland is now a foreign colony...
by Ugonabo Onwa Amene Esq.
quote:The land of Kemet or ancient Egypt, also called Idu or Igodomigodo by our ancestors, now sadly inhabited by descendants of Arabic and Turkish (with other European) invaders, was before the invasion, the ancestral land of Onicha people and many other African nations.
We were forced to make a southern migrational exodus to avoid annihilation by the constant invasion from foreign forces from Persia, Turkey, Albania, Macedonia and other parts of Europe. The land of Egypt was a very sophisticated and super advanced nation of civilized people. The foundation of ancient Egypt was laid by Africans who are now scattered in disorganized groups called tribes and clans; in total ignorance of their identities, contributions to world science, arts and their very advanced civilized roots in ancient Egypt.
Now and then, it hurts a lot to see the ways that Turkish-Arabs have been desecrating the ancient tombs and graves of our African ancestors in Egypt. Our ancestral graves are being excavated on a daily basis in the name of “research”. If these were their ancestors would they be allowing these desecrations and digging up of their ancestors for studies and research? In the name of research and studies, they are destroying land marks and coded information left by our ancestors for us and our children. Six years ago, they conducted a melanin pigmentation/skin color test on the skins of 25 Pharoahs and ancient Egyptian mummies that they excavated and found that they were all Africans with very dark skins but this information is yet to be published in the bi-annual Egyptian Historical Society magazines. The Key is to keep the African in stupor and ignorance of his great past...
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote: During much of the slavery period African slaves were usually isolated from white Americans
very good point i have been wondering about because of the many statements that aa's english is influenced in which i wondered how when separation was not only a law but a social norm
quote:...(the 17th president andrew)johnson, once an indentured servant learning the craft of tailoring.. with repressed anger, '...declared, 'moving very near to Mr. douglass(frederick)...(that) poor whites and... blacks had always been bitter enemies and if they were thrown together at the ballot box' a race war would ensue...johnson (told them)...black people should emigrate -william s. mcfeely, frederic douglass pp. 247-248
quote:the chief hallmark of the redlegs(caucasians)had been their absolute refusal to interbreed with the negroes -michael hoffman II they were white and they were slaves ....that the lowest of all beings, the redshanks(caucasians). the latter were miserable and degraded white men who, priding themselves on their caucasian origin, looked with contempt upon the african race. -sheppard, jill, the redlegs of barbados, their origins and their history
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:SAE: Do you understand English?
Ebonics: D'ya dig black talk?
Wolof: Dega nga olof?
question for clyde? niger-congo talk is always placed as conjugating their pronouns when using verbs ex. m na-eri nri-i am eating (igbo), where the short m sound stands for the pronoun mu or it's emphatic form munwa(myself) ebonics around my way have contractual emphasis such as in future tense first person singular the word ama is used as in amago tda sto(i will go to the store) i attach ama with the verb go because that is how it is heared. past tense would be ibin went tda sto(i have went to the store} which is modernized and influenced because of the usage of went while west indians and coastal west africans keep the original form [b]migo tda sto[b/] where the meaning can be present or past . this is the same with ancient mdu ntr ex. sdm=f he hears but can be used also for heared in the past except when the past needs top be stressed then it would be sdm.n=f placing na in front of the contracted f. if going to the store needs to be stressed in the past then done is put in front of the verb like midungo tda sto (i have already left for the store.) in arabic zhahabtu ile mhal where tu is representative of I attached to zhahab however they dont say that arabic or other semitic languages contract their pronouns but in actuality that is what they stand for.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:SAE: Do you understand English?
Ebonics: D'ya dig black talk?
Wolof: Dega nga olof?
question for clyde? niger-congo talk is always placed as conjugating their pronouns when using verbs ex. m na-eri nri-i am eating (igbo), where the short m sound stands for the pronoun mu or it's emphatic form munwa(myself) ebonics around my way have contractual emphasis such as in future tense first person singular the word ama is used as in amago tda sto(i will go to the store) i attach ama with the verb go because that is how it is heared. past tense would be ibin went tda sto(i have went to the store} which is modernized and influenced because of the usage of went while west indians and coastal west africans keep the original form [b]migo tda sto[b/] where the meaning can be present or past . this is the same with ancient mdu ntr ex. sdm=f he hears but can be used also for heared in the past except when the past needs top be stressed then it would be sdm.n=f placing na in front of the contracted f. if going to the store needs to be stressed in the past then done is put in front of the verb like midungo tda sto (i have already left for the store.) in arabic zhahabtu ile mhal where tu is representative of I attached to zhahab however they dont say that arabic or other semitic languages contract their pronouns but in actuality that is what they stand for.
This is interesting. I never noticed this.
.
Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom we aren't egyptian. i do believe that everyone who is african and african descent can be proud of that great african kingdom. we aa's have geneology from all over africa.
One can understand why you self-describe youself as ...
Can you not see the very contradiction in your post?
"African Americans have genealogy from all over Africa (but) we aren't Egyptian."
is the same contradiction as, for example,
"European Americans have genealogy from all over Europe (but) we aren't Irish."
Which is to say:
"European Americans have genealogy from all over Europe except from Ireland."
...
how the hell are you getting indignant because i am asking questions?
europeans usually can pinpoint their lineage which won't neccessarily be irish in origin but then again the french came from germanic tribes but they are not considered german even though that is their origin. so in a way you are correct but not to the point you are taking it.
being african descent does not mean we can claim being somali.
you have provided some excellent info here. please don't embarrass yourself!!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. This lineage is both historical and genetic. Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. This lineage is both historical and genetic.
by this post one would assume that everyone in africa would be related to ancient kemetic peoples. so what would make us so special to represent them?
and would we be more closely related to the ancient kemite then the people who reside in east africa today, such as the eritrean, nubian, ethio, somali?
west africans don't go around claiming descent from ancient egyptians like you are here.
africa had many civilizations, why is egypt so special to you that you want to claim some kind of direct lineal descent from them?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ---------------------------------- African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups ----------------------------------
Your opinionative conclusion is quite juvenile.
1. What evidence do you have that the Ancient Egyptians migrated to what "you" call "west Africa"?
2. What is your definition of "west" Africa? Does it include any or all of the following countries: Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Mali?
3. From your statement you seem to believe the only place slaves were obtained from is what "you" call "west Africa". Why would that be? Weren't ships sailing all around the world by at the latest the 1700s?
We are all looking forward to see if either you run away from these simple questions or behave like someone who considers themself a true intellect and scholar, and answer the above simple questions.
Wally?................
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom: ...by this post one would assume that everyone in africa would be related to ancient kemetic peoples. so what would make us so special to represent them?
and would we be more closely related to the ancient kemite then the people who reside in east africa today, such as the eritrean, nubian, ethio, somali?
west africans don't go around claiming descent from ancient egyptians like you are here.
africa had many civilizations, why is egypt so special to you that you want to claim some kind of direct lineal descent from them?
You are essentially having a debate with yourself...now, take a deep breath, then grab a cup of coffee, then:
Start at the beginning of this topic (page 1) and carefully read the points that I have elaborated on the subject...you may, and probably should avoid the off topic interruptions interspersed here and there...just follow the flow of my documented arguments; then tell me what you think...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Serpent Wizdom wrote:
quote: by this post one would assume that everyone in africa would be related to ancient kemetic peoples. so what would make us so special to represent them?
and would we be more closely related to the ancient kemite then the people who reside in east africa today, such as the eritrean, nubian, ethio, somali?
Clarify what you mean when you say us and we.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
I would offer you the same advice that I gave to Serpent Wizdom, except unlike Serpent Wisdom who I think is intelligent, you are an idiot and would not benefit from it...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Serpent Wizdom wrote:
quote: and would we be more closely related to the ancient kemite then the people who reside in east africa today, such as the eritrean, nubian, ethio, somali?
Again who is "we"?
What is a "nubian"? Was there ever an ancient nation called "Nubia"? If not, then why are you using that terminology as if it were valid?
Why do you keep saying that eritreans, modern day ethiopians, somalis are more related to the Ancient Egyptians than the indigenous population of modern day Egypt, as well as Sudan and Libya?
Its bizarre that you persist on doing such a thing even when told how untruthful it is. Is it because you cannot let go of eyeball anthropology? If so, why do you continue to want us to take you seriously? Eyeball anthropology is used mostly by adle brained entertainment flunkies.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally crayoned: ----------------------------------- I would offer you the same advice that I gave to Serpent Wizdom, except unlike Serpent Wisdom who I think is intelligent, you are an idiot and would not benefit from it... -----------------------------------
In other words you are just like the typical peabrained race troll. You can't back up anything you say when questioned. You think you can go around masquerading your opinions as facts and then whine like a child when someone calls you out on it.
People, Wally has once again proven that he is no scholar and should not be taken seriously.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose. The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Serpent Wizdom wrote:
quote: and would we be more closely related to the ancient kemite then the people who reside in east africa today, such as the eritrean, nubian, ethio, somali?
Again who is "we"?
What is a "nubian"? Was there ever an ancient nation called "Nubia"? If not, then why are you using that terminology as if it were valid?
Why do you keep saying that eritreans, modern day ethiopians, somalis are more related to the Ancient Egyptians than the indigenous population of modern day Egypt, as well as Sudan and Libya?
Its bizarre that you persist on doing such a thing even when told how untruthful it is. Is it because you cannot let go of eyeball anthropology? If so, why do you continue to want us to take you seriously? Eyeball anthropology is used mostly by adle brained entertainment flunkies.
you must be egyptian, north sudanese or libyan.
ok.
i'll add southern sudanese, southern egyptians...don't know about libyans..
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observe the African Americans whom they pass must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly sublimely see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era... Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
^^Correct. This is why Europeans fight so hard to deny that Afro-Americans have a ancient history and direct us toward study of slavery.
They want us to make slavery a frame of reference because this period we were totally under their control. They teach the myth Europeans have been the civilizers of the world --when in reality their civilizations were invented by Blacks .
They knew this all along but they were able to make themselves a world in which they were the supreme race until Afro-Americans became free, learned foriegn languages and could write. Thusly, by the end of the 19th Century we knew that Egypt and the Civilizations in Mesopotamia and Iran were founded by African Blacks.
So Europeans became desperate to hide the true history of the world--since they have no ancient history except Greece and Rome, which were founded by Blacks. This is why trolls come to ES to attempt to fight the truth,
This is also why some people hate this thread. While most Europeans have no direct relationship to Greece and Rome, Afro-Americans have direct descent from the Egyptians. This angers Europeans who are jealous of our great past and desire us to hate ourselves .
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observe the African Americans whom they pass must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly subliminally see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era...
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote: ^^Correct. This is why Europeans fight so hard to deny that Afro-Americans have a ancient history and direct us toward study of slavery.
They want us to make slavery a frame of reference because this period we were totally under their control. They teach the myth Europeans have been the civilizers of the world --when in reality their civilizations were invented by Blacks .
They knew this all along but they were able to make themselves a world in which they were the supreme race until Afro-Americans became free, learned foriegn languages and could write. Thusly, by the end of the 19th Century we knew that Egypt and the Civilizations in Mesopotamia and Iran were founded by African Blacks.
So Europeans became desperate to hide the true history of the world--since they have no ancient history except Greece and Rome, which were founded by Blacks. This is why trolls come to ES to attempt to fight the truth,
This is also why some people hate this thread. While most Europeans have no direct relationship to Greece and Rome, Afro-Americans have direct descent from the Egyptians. This angers Europeans who are jealous of our great past and desire us to hate ourselves.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Upon his visit to Egypt, President Obama came face to face with the Mdu Ntr glyph for "face" or "ho/kho" in Mdu Ntr, to which the President exclaimed "That looks like me! Look at those ears!" ...yeah, and the nose, and the mouth, and the face...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Why I'm partial to this photograph.
They say that everyone has a twin look-a-like somewhere; in any event, this little Upper Egyptian girl is a "clone" of a close blood relative of mine! ...swear to God
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
^^^
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Osteology
Trikhanus (1981) found Egyptians (limb ratios) to plot closest to tropical Africans and not Mediterranean Europeans residing in a roughly similar climatic area. A more recent study compared ancient Egyptian osteology to that of African-Americans and White Americans, and found that the stature of the Ancient Egyptians was more similar to the stature of African-Americans, although it was not identical. -- from "Population history of Egypt" Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Osteology
Trikhanus (1981) found Egyptians (limb ratios) to plot closest to tropical Africans and not Mediterranean Europeans residing in a roughly similar climatic area. A more recent study compared ancient Egyptian osteology to that of African-Americans and White Americans, and found that the stature of the Ancient Egyptians was more similar to the stature of African-Americans, although it was not identical. -- from "Population history of Egypt"
That is very true, when looking at Egyptian statuary, I myself often marvel at how African American they look.
But that is to be expected when you consider the function of the two civilizations.
In ancient times, Egypt was the center of the Black world, with people from every country as part of the mix. As always there were admixture, producing offspring with elements from every contributing phenotype. The United States performs that same function in modern times.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
-- The conk and the jheri curl --
Deliberate hair-straightening; the conk and the jheri curl
The Conk, which "originated" in the 1920s, was an attempt by Black men to straighten their hair to make it look like that of White men.
The primary ingredients used to straighten or relax the hair are:
Sodium hydroxide (the conk) and Ammonium thioglycolate(the jheri curl). These chemical agents work against moisture, or in other words they dry the hair structure to the degree that it relaxes and the woolly hair looses its natural tendency to curl. This chemically straightened hair also cannot be reverted back to its original natural state. The only way to get rid of a conk is to allow it to grow out.
The primary process of embalming the corpse was the 'natron bath' wherein the corpse was completely covered in dry natron for a period of forty days. The chemical ingredients in natron are:
Sodium carbonate; bicarbonate; sodium sulphate; and chloride. These chemical agents work against moisture, in fact, it was used to 'dry out' the body. (Kinda like making beef jerky.)
This, I think, is why you find all these straight haired prognathous Negro mummies.
Its more 'conk' than conspiracy.
quote:...the substance in the embalming material has been known to straighten hair,and over time mummy hair loses elasticity that hold hair into place. Still there are Nubians and modern Upper Egyptians with a wavy type hair that is not straight but is actually very thick. Europeans have wavy hair that is very thin and has a more rounded folice as opposed to people of African descent. - Ausar
Ancient Egyptian mummies were, inadvertently, submitted to a form of 'conking' and/or Jheri curl!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Collage: African Americans and Upper Egyptians
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Diola (Jola) - another African American ancestral branch:
The Diola form 9% of the population of Senegal. Some oral sources (Griots) contend that the Diola originated in Egypt and traveled across North Africa in c1000 B.C., settling in the Niger wetlands. Drought and wars later forced them south. As a minority group, and fair game for capture, they fled to the marshes and swamps of the Casamance during the slave trade era, thus becoming the earliest settlers south of the Gambia River. As compared with other ethnic groups, their society is very non-hierarchical and egalitarian, with no inferior castes or races. Although many Diolas converted to Christianity, and despite some recent important inroads made by Islam, their traditional religious beliefs still greatly influence them. Their principal economic activity has been the cultivation of rice (highly female labor-intensive). Palm wine production is another major economic activity.
Diola women harvesting rice
...and on to America...
The ethnic groups that suffered the most directly from the Atlantic slave trade were those living along the coastal areas of the river Gambia and the river Cassamance, and these are the Manjagos, the Balantas, the Papels and the Diolas...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Continent wide African DNA linkages
quote: "The most extensive pan-African haplotype (16189 16192 16223 16278 16294 16309 16390) is in the L2a1 haplogroup. This sequence is observed in West Africa among the Malinke, Wolof, and others; in North Africa among the Maure, Hausa, Fulbe, and others; in Central Africa among the Bamileke, Fali, and others; in South Africa among the Khoisan family including the Khwe and Bantu speakers; and in East Africa among the Kikuyu. Closely related variants are observed among the Tuareg in North and West Africa and among the East African Dinka and Somali."
(-- Bert Ely , Jamie Lee Wilson , Fatimah Jackson and Bruce A Jackson. (2006). AFRICAN-AMERICAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNAs OFTEN MATCH mtDNAs FOUND IN MULTIPLE AFRICAN ETHNIC GROUPS.- BMC Biology 2006, 4:34)
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
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"Egyptian Y-chromosome haplotypes show preponderance is with African clusters; not European or Near Eastern" Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...journeying backwards from America to the African slave ports to Ancient Egypt to the Ancient Sudan...
P won.t (aka Punt, Ethaosh, ...; pwonou, pwontiu)
Note here the meaning of this word ("p" is the article "the" ; "won" = "beginning" and the feminine "t" which makes the word a feminine noun) is "The Original country" - i.e., "country from which we came"
ounti, oun, ouon (won) Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
On January 27, 28 and 29, 2003, Egyptian police conducted raids of Sudanese, Liberian and sub-Saharan African residences in the Maadi area. Detainees, including those with refugee cards, reported ill treatment, beatings and abuse. One detainee reported-
I was taken into a police wagon on the street. They drove around to collect other black people. They would ask Egyptians on the street, "Where are the buildings where blacks live?" It was about one hour driving around like this. By the end there were ten or twelve Africans in the car." HRW
Other detainees alleged that police referred to the raids as "Black Day" and that police intake sheets were labeled, "Operation Track Down Blacks."
There are tens of thousands of Sudanese refugees in Egypt, most of them seeking refuge from ongoing military conflicts in their home country of Sudan. Their official status as refugees is highly disputed, and they have been subject to racial discrimination and police violence. They live among a much larger population of Sudanese migrants in Egypt, more than two million people of Sudanese nationality (by most estimates; a full range is 750,000 to 4 million (FMRS 2006:5) who live in Egypt. The U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants believes many more of these migrants are in fact refugees, but see little benefit in seeking recognition.
Egypt employs a "shoot to stop" policy against refugees attempting to continue to Israel. According to Human Rights Watch, over 50 refugees, including women and children, have been shot by Egyptian border guards since 2007.[1][2]
The violent destabilization and economic collapse caused by the immense amount of death and destruction in Sudan has forced millions of civilians to flee their homes and cities.[3] Many refugees currently residing in Egypt escaped from the Second Sudanese Civil War, where war "pitted black African separatists" and "Christians" against a "Sudanese government run by Muslim, Arabic-speaking northerners who had tried to impose Islamic law on the country." 1 in 5 Sudanese were killed in the war, and over 4 million civilians in the South have been given Internally Displaced Persons status. [4] The majority of these IDPs are attempting to resettle outside of the country, but efforts have produced minimal results.
In January of 2004, Egyptian politicians wrote legislation for a “Four Freedoms Agreement,” which would grant both Sudanese and Egyptians the freedom of movement, residence, ownership and work in either country. It would allow Sudanese nationals to live indefinitely in Egypt while no longer having to seek refugee status to remain in the country. The agreement would not enable Sudanese refugees to benefit from educational, medical, or social benefits entitled to native citizens. However, as of 2009, the agreement has yet to be ratified by the Egyptian government. [5]
Refugees in Egypt experience discrimination by both the government and civilian services. A series of laws passed by parliament has effectively stalled legal and financial gains for refugees of all nationalities, and the response by the international community has been limited.
Legal employment in Egypt is "virtually" impossible for Sudanese refugees. The 2003 Labor Law and its implementing Ministerial Decree and the 2004 Decree of the Ministry of Manpower and Emigration force all foreigners including refugees to have a permit to work in "gainful" employment. The requirements are reportedly very "stringent," and include assessments of legal status, employer sponsorship, and non-competition with nationals. In 2006, employers have since been required to submit a certificate verifying Sudanese nationals are not carrying AIDS. As a result of these requirements, only a fraction of Sudanese have obtained working permits.
* Forced Migration and Refugee Studies program (FMRS) of the American University in Cairo, A TRAGEDY OF FAILURES AND FALSE EXPECTATIONS: Report on the Events Surrounding the Three-month Sit-in and Forced Removal of Sudanese Refugees in Cairo, September–December 2005, June 2006. * Gamal Nkrumah, "The noose tightens," Al-Ahram Weekly, 5-11 January 2006. * U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI), World Refugee Survey 2005.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Good thread wally to me African Americans remind me of the Southern Egyptians and Southern Nilotics of Northern Sudan from Aswan on..
-Northern Sudanese
AA actor Blair Underwood
The Egyptians/Nubians remind me of Afro-Latinos/Afro-Hispanics like Peurto Ricans, Cubans, and Dominicans..
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Skeptic:
quote:Originally posted by Fraud_Buster: Ozzy, you said your family identify as "Black" due to social pressure from a racist society, but this woman lives in a fair and just country that does not practice bigotry and accepts people as they are.
"the word black" is an insult to any Egyptian.
We use the word "asmar", "samara", etc. to label people who are darker.
Of course, you could be asmar, yet your complexion could range from Olive/Tan to Dark Brown. It is the polite way to describe people. instead of calling the kettle black.
Fraud_Buster let me just tell you that you’re essentially wasting your time. Afrocentrism is a religious cult – most of them are quite content with living in a world devoid of reality, so they really couldn’t give a damn about facts. I realized a few weeks ago that it’s essentially a waste of time trying to show them the light of reason. None of the crap espoused on this board is taught as the mainstream, and to me that’s the most important thing. Most of them are filled with envy, and racist as hell, all because their ancestors didn’t produce anything substantial. And don’t be fooled by the few select photos that they upload of AA who supposedly “look” like Egyptians.
Regarding the Upper Egyptians, this is what the latest DNA evidence has to say on the matter:
Local comparisons between Upper Egyptians were carried out with other ethnic groups in Egypt, based on frequency and molecular data. No differences were observed in comparison with a general Caucasian population from Cairo in any of the nine loci compared or with Egyptian Christians from Cairo…Multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) based on pair-wise FST genetic distances of Upper Egyptian and other diverse global populations. OCE, Oceanian; ME, Middle Eastern; NAF, North African; EAS, East Asian; SSA, sub-Saharan African; UEGY, Upper Egyptian; SAS, South Asian; EUR, European. The figure shows that Oceania and American populations are very distant from Upper Egyptians (marked by a grey triangle) and other populations. The Upper Egyptian population is closer to the Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian and European populations than others. (Genetic variation of 15 autosomal STR loci in Upper (Southern) Egyptians, Omran et al 2008.)
Yes so true, the Yorubans, Bantus and Mandenka(SSA)are AA CLOSEST cousins. Idiots will protest, "No Horners or Nubians were compared blah blah...", but of course this will only show the intermediate position of Horn Africans with most over 60% shared DNA ancestry with Eurasians and other Afrasians.
Note the Egyptian and other Afrasian/Eurasian shared ancestry from Behar et al. 2010. Shared colors represent shared Autosomal DNA ancestry. (One individual per one pixel wide line)at K=10 clusters -
ES Gang sign on the 'black' hand side
and on the 'white' hand side for tools
Yo Wally y u bee hatin an misreprasentin on da reel brothas an sistas, take awaay dat Devil Euro DNA an u be got da reel sistas -
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
This idiot NonProphet is definitely a Looney toon - his only intent here is to be a distraction; I checked out his profile and not unsurprisingly there is this photo of a fake "Egyptian" statue of "Hemiunu", his Avatar (?)...
quote: The statue's head has been restored, as it had been damaged around its eyes, which originally may have been inlaid with mountan crystals. The statue is one of the many exhibits in the museum in Hildesheim, Germany. http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html
quote: The portrait's oblong face with full cheeks and small sharp chin is largely reconstructed. It was probably smashed by thieves in earlier times to remove the inlaid colored stones most likely rock crystal) and gold casings that comprised the statue's eyes. http://artmuseumjournal.com/hemiunu.aspx
One doesn't have to be a sleuth to see clearly what part of the face that has been "reconstructed" and... One can believe in the "tooth fairy" or "the Easter bunny" or that this fake image belonged to the same family (dynasty) of the Great Pyramids builders, such as these...
<><><>
Racism = Lunacy; case in point Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
It seems that the use of a personal name for God, specifically YHWH, came into practice during the captivities as some of the Israelites adopted this Aramaean deity. The name probably came officially to the Israelite religion when the Edomites joined the Jerusalem Temple about 150 years before Christ. There is evidence that Yahweh had been the Edomite's lord as far back as 1,400 BC. The oldest known appearance of the name YHWH outside the Holy Land was in Egypt about 1,400 BC where it is found on lists with five other sacred names. A Rameses II (1304-1237) list has it 6 times. In an Amon temple of AmenhotepIII (1417-1379 BC) the name is associated with Seir (Edom). Other evidence places it with Syria at 1,400 BC
It is highly likely that Yahwism had its home in Edom/Seir/Paran. Two poems describe Yahweh as coming from this region. We have already cited the text from the Song of Deborah. The other is found in the Blessing of Moses (Deut 33:2):
Yahweh came down from Sinai. For them, behind Seir, it [i.e. the morning star] arose on the horizon, Over Mount Paran it shone forth. For them it came for the mustering at Kadesh, From its zenith as far down as the foothills.
איר פולד אַלע די מענטשן מיט מאַגיש
יאָ איר געווארט אויף שׂטן ס רופן .. '
The Idumean Child Rapists and Pediphiles!!
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
No intelligent reply so G has to resort to pulling the sociopolitical race card, altered photos and ad homs. My intent was humor and knowledge. Those DNA studies were shown because the Modern Egyptians are the living descendants of the AE.
Why don't you be honest for a change and come off your high horse and delusional cloud. I thought you were one of the last 'scholars' left, Billy?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...journeying backwards from America to the African slave ports to Ancient Egypt to the Ancient Sudan...
P won.t (aka Punt, Ethaosh, ...; pwonou, pwontiu)
Note here the meaning of this word ("p" is the article "the" ; "won" = "beginning" and the feminine "t" which makes the word a feminine noun) is "The Original country" - i.e., "country from which we came"
ounti, oun, ouon (won)
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Dumb Kike, Your spam of Africans and Truthcentric is NOT "Altered Photos and Ad Homeneim attack..LMAO
crazy Fucking Yid..
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...journeying backwards from America to the African slave ports to Ancient Egypt to the Ancient Sudan...
P won.t (aka Punt, Ethaosh, ...; pwonou, pwontiu)
Note here the meaning of this word ("p" is the article "the" ; "won" = "beginning" and the feminine "t" which makes the word a feminine noun) is "The Original country" - i.e., "country from which we came"
ounti, oun, ouon (won)
This is a perfect example why many of you people are stagnant and enjoy backwardness. Nobody except the Wally types care about extinct languages, culture and Gods outside the true academic study of Egyptology. But unlike you guys, true Egyptologists are objective realists who don't pretend to be modern day AE. Is it possibly explained by many Niger-Kordofanian groups having no concept/words to describe precision, gradations and past/future events or planning? And or is it self-hatred, resentment and loathing of your ancestors for the selling off to the Euro traders? There was a brain related genetic mutation that possibly occured in North Africa or the Near East so maybe your ancestors missed out.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
NonProphet
quote:This is a perfect example why many of you people are stagnant and enjoy backwardness. Nobody except the Wally types care about extinct languages, culture and Gods outside the true academic study of Egyptology.
And that's your problem the rest of your statement is simply made of straw..for studying dead languages and culture is called studying "HISTORY" the rest is called sociology Finding Kemetian words in AAs language is a ligit area of interest such as Okra?? well see list on other pages.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
following the social voyage of a word - update
(from)
Ancient Egypt: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
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(from)
Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egypt Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: bou - to shine, be bright
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
also,
Ancient Egypt: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love Bou.i (My.Bou) = "My love, My admiration", "My delight", "My esteemed (one)"...
(to)
African Americanism: My boo = (see above)
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
<><><>
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egypt: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
<><><>
...but human vocabulary does not have to necessarily come directly to America by Africans, but can come indirectly...
Ancient Egypt: Baby; Baba, Babe, Baby, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a dialectical transformation back into its original form!
<><><>
(from)
Ancient Egypt: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy"
.................
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Actually an X-staff member and friend of mine pronounce the word Okra exactly as in Kemetian Okre he is from Atlanta his eyes widen when I showed him your example.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Actually an X-staff member and friend of mine pronounce the word Okra exactly as in Kemetian Okre he is from Atlanta his eyes widen when I showed him your example.
Thanks for your post.
It is extremely important to have independent verification of evidence presented.
Here' another example:
I wrote, "...and my mama would always make sure that clipped nails or cut hair was always flushed down the toilet!"
to which Heru-Tunde responded:
quote: How interesting i'm Yoruba and my mum would tell me the exact same thing, the same thing happens in Yoruba Mythology.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Portraits: Upper Egyptians, Northern Sudanese, and African Americans...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose. The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
African slaves were a commodity, just like cocoa, ivory, gold, bauxite, which Africans sold to the Europeans, Arabs...
Like all commodities, it was necessary and efficient to transport these commodities from the interior to coastal ports for exportation. The Europeans, for example, did not just saunter in and cherry pick these commodities at will nor were they able to do so, if so inclined...
The East African ports in Mozambique were a source of African slaves not only from Kenya but from the entire east and central African territory...
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
Some African American ancestors: Hausa, Fulani, Igbo, Berber, Tuareg, Tukulor, Wolof, Yoruba, Moor
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
Anyone who walks the streets of America and who observe the African Americans whom they pass must at least subconsciously see the historical reality of the Ancient Egyptian Civilization; they must certainly subliminally see individuals who look like the "Bantu" Great sphinx, or the "Beja" Queen Hatshepsut, or the "Masai" Tutankhamen...
The greatness and genius of Ancient Egypt was that it was a Pan-African Civilization, the most nearly perfect one created by man to this date. The Ancient Egyptians, like the African Americans, were a mix of ALL of these African ethnicities...
...and the realization of the African Americans' genealogical/historical descent from the Nile Valley isn't a narrowly confined focus or an either-or concept:
a) African Americans are also descendants of the Kushite Civilization
b) African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...
c) African Americans are also descendants of the Kongo Civilization...
All of these realities are due to the processes of African history, from the far reaches of African antiquity to the modern era... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Roots:: <Fertile Sahara >> Kemet/Kush: Paal >> Western Sudan (West Africa): Pël, Pulaar, Fula, Fulani... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally what is with all of the picture spam?
Its amazing how most of the fools on this forum have nothing better to do than mugshot people and/or creating human zoos.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ---------------------------------------- African Americans are also descendants of the great Civilizations of Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai... ----------------------------------------
I've got bad news for you Wally. According to the "historians" and their quotes and maps, African Americans are not related to these people.
According to what the "historians" say and the maps they draw, the slaves did not come from Mali, Mauritania, or Niger. No desert blacks came to the Americas. Slaves only came from the coastal jungle terrained areas below the desert.
Wally, your thoughts on what the "historians" say?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
My DNA test result matches include Ghana, Mali, and with Songhai.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote:
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Neferet: My DNA test result matches include Ghana, Mali, and with Songhai.
But of course they would, if you're African American...
But I hope the DNA test didn't cost you very much, inasmuch as you could have found this evidence for free on this very thread...
Ikhnaton - Barack Obama the hieroglyph reads "Barak (praise...)" ... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Journey of the Afro-pick
1) Ancient Egypt c2800 bc_______________________ 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) Other African picks
...then on to America
of course, some folks in Ancient Egypt, like the Great Genius Imhotep, had no use for a pick... Imhotep Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
According to ancient definitions both of the above men would be considered equally black. The man in the middle photo with the red shirt comes from a place much closer to Egypt than the man in the top photo.
_________________________________________________
.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Journey of the Afro-pick
1) Ancient Egypt c2800 bc_______________________ 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) Other African picks
...then on to America
of course, some folks in Ancient Egypt, like the Great Genius Imhotep, had no use for a pick... Imhotep Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Ornamental Comb, Predynastic, Late Naqada III 3200–3100 B.C., Metropolitan Museum (see bottom edge for narrow scale of broken off prongs)
it's prongs are comparable to the scale of the bottom edge of this later Egyptian comb 400-600AD: Anitnoë, Egypt,
some of the hair picks that Wally posted are of the larger prong afro pick type. I don't doubt there were people with dark skin and afros in ancient Egypt. However I believe there may have been other types as well. While there were many afro pick type combs, some for sale on ebay as Wally's picture was and others that were being sold on Egyptian artifacts to buy sites I couldn't find a picture of a comb that was part of a museum collection. maybe some one could find one and post the museum source.
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
An "Ornamental Comb" is a comb to decorate the hair, not for combing.
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Djet comb (Louvre) King Djet, fourth Egyptian Pharaoh, 1st Dynasty
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Neferet several of the combs already posted were ornamental combs with the thick wide spaced prongs. Do you have any pictures of combs like the Djet comb above that have it's narrow small prongs but such a comb from Africa other than North Africa?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ornamental comb (New Kingdom)
"On both sides are figures of animals in horizontal rows, a spatial organization familiar from later Egyptian art. The animals include elephants and snakes; wading birds and a giraffe; hyenas; (Watusi) cattle; and perhaps boars. Similar arrangements of these creatures on other carved ivory implements suggest that the arrangement and choice of animals were not haphazard. Elephants treading on snakes suggest that this part of the scene was symbolic. The mythologies of many African peoples associate elephants and serpents with the creation of the universe. The uppermost row of this comb may symbolize a creative deity to whom the rest of the animals owe their existence."
---
"Egyptians carved double-sided combs much like modern examples with thick teeth on one side and fine teeth along the other. Ancient hairstyles, especially those of women, were often quite elaborate. Combs like this would have been used for both natural hair and for wigs which were worn by both men and women."
Before the Black pride movement, and even after, the majority of African Americans, use this type of comb:
Early 18th dynasty comb
Ashanti comb Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Some African hair styles:
Afar 'butter melt'
Ghana...
(top) Eritrean......(bottom) Afar afro - Ethiopian princess - East African Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
somebody please post an ancient Egyptian wide spaced Afro pick type comb that is part of a museum collection, thanks
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Amarna - Naqada
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
________________________BLACK POWER______________________ Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Comb with a hippopotamus Elephant ivory Egypt Naqada I - early Naqada ll (ca. 3900-3500 B.C.)
Metropolitan Museum of Art NYC
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Naqada 4000 - 3600 BC Egypt
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Comb Decorated with an Ostrich Egypt, Naqada I-early Naqada II (ca. 3900-3500 BC)
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Ashmolean Museum Ivory Objects - Combs from the Naqada Culture
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Victorian ornamental comb
Art Deco ornamental comb
Victorian ornamental comb
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The hot comb; Another Ancient Egyptian (Nilotic) invention
The Ancient Egyptian hot comb has been found in ancient Royal tombs. These combs were used to deal with the wooly, kinky, curly hair of the Ancient Egyptians:
Mdu Ntr Determinatives: top - Hair (Sheni) mid - Lock of Hair (Napy) bot - Beard (Khabes)
Women and men with naturally curly, wavy or kinky hair have used hot combs for more than a century to create straight and versatile hairstyles...
It is commonly believed that Madam C.J. Walker invented the hot comb. However, the tool was actually first used by the French around the year 1845. Women in Paris had been using hot combs to replicate the straight styles worn by ancient Egyptians...
the hot comb would become the foundation of the black beautician industry starting in the early 1900s. Hot combs were a significant improvement from older methods used by African- Americans during and after slavery to straighten hair, which ranged from heated butter knives and cloths, to axle grease and homemade lye. Today, hot combs are still predominantly used in black salons as a means for straightening hair without chemicals.
Africans in America, like their European counterparts, are composed of many diverse ethnic groups. Over 40 identifiable ethnic groups from 25 different kingdoms were shipped to the United States after being sold to traders during the Atlantic Slave trade. The vast majority of these people came from an area spanning from present day Senegal all the way to Democratic Republic of Congo. Over time, Africans in America formed a new and common identity focused on their mutual condition in America as opposed to cultural and historic ties to Africa. Africans were sold and traded into bondage and shipped to the American South from 1619. In 1662 Virginia, the following law mentioned hereditary slavery and tied it to being born of a slave mother; its wording suggests that "negroes" but not "Englishmen" could be enslaved, and it was apparently clarifying an existing legal status, rather than establishing a new one.
African slaves were a commodity, just like cocoa, ivory, gold, bauxite, which Africans sold to the Europeans, Arabs...
Like all commodities, it was necessary and efficient to transport these commodities from the interior to coastal ports for exportation. The Europeans, for example, did not just saunter in and cherry pick these commodities at will nor were they able to do so, if so inclined...
The East African ports in Mozambique were a *source of African slaves not only from Kenya but from the entire east and central African territory...
*source: a facility where something is available
quote:historian Henry Louis Gates, Jr. put African American ancestry in these terms:
58 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one great-grandparent);
19.6 percent of African Americans have at least 25 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one grandparent);
1 percent of African Americans have at least 50 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one parent); and
5 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5 percent Native American ancestry (equivalent to one great-grandparent).
...which also means that 93 percent of African Americans ancestry is:
It has already been demonstrated that the Wolof, Serer, Fante, Fulani, Igbo, Yoruba, Edo-Bini...once resided in Kemet (Ancient Egypt)... Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans ancestry is:
It has already been demonstrated that the Wolof, Serer, Fante, Fulani, Igbo, Yoruba, Edo-Bini...once resided in Kemet (Ancient Egypt)... [/QB]
Wally what is the probability that a randomly chosen African American individual has ancestry that goes back to Pharaonic Egypt?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Wally what is the probability that a randomly chosen African American individual has ancestry that goes back to Pharaonic Egypt?
randomly chosen; me
The entire basis of your question is predicated on a false assumption; that what I am presenting is a theory!
(Theory: An unproven speculation)
a) I am not theoretically from Louisiana. I am!
b) I am not theoretically an African American. I am!
c) It isn't theoretical that at least two-thirds of the slaves arriving in Louisiana, during a specific period, were Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); creators of Louisiana's Creole culture...
All of this is not only a matter of factual historical record but of my own personal knowledge of who I am as a person!
Why in heavens name would I need an archeologist to tell me my own history, (but alas, that's why selling the Snake Oil of "your roots DNA" is such a lucrative scam...)
d) But my ancestry, is not limited to the Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande - why is there a Congo Square in New Orleans?
I am specifically personalizing this in order to demonstrate that reality can not be successfully concealed behind the curtain of "archeology" if challenged.
So, let us start from the beginning...Then work our ways backwards...
a) I am an African American born in Louisiana; of Louisiana born African American parents
b) My ancestry, therefore must include Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); the Wolof were an essential factor in creating Louisiana's Creole culture...
c) and possible Yoruba ancestry: I wrote, "...and my mama would always make sure that clipped nails or cut hair was always flushed down the toilet!"
to which Heru-Tunde responded:
quote: How interesting i'm Yoruba and my mum would tell me the exact same thing, the same thing happens in Yoruba Mythology.
d) The Serer, Wolof, Fulani, Mande, and Yoruba were components and/or founders of the Western Sudanic Empires of Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Jolof...
e) Modern scientific research by Lucas, Diop, Obenga...has served to confirm the Griot tales of origins of these West Sudanese peoples from the Nile river valley; which has been amply demonstrated here on this topic thread.
It isn't a matter of trying to prove a theory; it is simply a matter of discovery... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:1722 ...Not only did the French turn to African slavery for labor, but they wanted slaves with very specific technological skills. Nearly all blacks brought to French Louisiana came in the 1720s (only one slaving ship came after 1731), and they nearly all came directly from Africa, most from Senegambia. The Senegambians (particularly the Bambara) were skilled in growing rice (including turning swamps into rice paddies), processing indigo, processing tobacco, and lumbering. In addition, they were commonly used as doctors and surgeons. These skills were so vital to Louisiana settlers that slave ship captains were instructed not to stop in the West Indies en route to Louisiana because French West Indian planters would buy up all their “cargo,” leaving none for Louisiana colonists. By 1746, there were 3200 whites and 4730 blacks in French Louisiana www.sonoma.edu/tah2/lessons/.../slavery_new_orleans_louisiana.rtf
---
quote:Because of the differing points of departure of African slaves, which included Senegal, Gambia, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ghana, Togo, Dahomey (Republic of Benin), Nigeria, and Angola, researchers like Herskovits, Le Page du Pratz, and Lorenzo Don Turner all agree that the group as a whole was linguistically diverse, with such substrate languages as, among others, Wolof, Malinke, Mangingo, Bambara, Foule, Mende, Vai, Twi, Fante, Ga, Ewe, Fon, Yoruba, Bini, Hausa, Igbo, Ibibio, Efik, Congo, Umbundo, and Kimbundo. Hall methodically argues that two-thirds of the slaves that arrived in Louisiana were brought from Senegambia, "a site of the great medieval Ghana, Mali, and Songhai trade," a region homogeneous in culture and history, located between the rivers Senegal and Gambia. The slaves from this region spoke Serrer, Wolof, and Pulaar, which are closely related, and Malinke, spoken in the east by the Mande people. Hall supports with data the fact that Senegambia was the main source of slave trade between Africa and Louisiana in the eighteenth century
--Frenchcreoles.com
quote:According to the late Cheikh Anta Diop, the great Senegalese historian and anthropologist, the main groups of people in Senegambia have their origins in Ancient Egypt. To support this theory, Diop draws on a number of disciplines from archaeology to linguistics, and a variety of sources from African oral traditions to the writings of the Greeks and Arabs. --Embassy of the Republic of Senegal
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
Wally, Diop was not a historian
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
a) I am an African American born in Louisiana; of Louisiana born African American parents
b) My ancestry, therefore must include Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); the Wolof were an essential factor in creating Louisiana's Creole culture...
Your logic continues to be non sequitur.
Example: Bob is a European France is in Europe therefore Bob is part French
wake up Wally this whole thread is built on that shoddy logic.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Lacking any credible evidence to contradict the evidence provided, the 'detractors' make absolutely incredible and false statements, or try to project their own illogic on what has been stated:
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Wally, Diop was not a historian
This 'detractor' does not want to be confused by facts (never is); an ad hominem attack on Diop is his point.
ad hominem: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
Fact:
"Cheikh Anta Diop (Born 29 December 1923 in Thieytou, Diourbel Region - Died 7 February 1986 in Dakar) was a historian, anthropologist, physicist, and politician"
Historian: a person who is an authority on history and who studies it and writes about it
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
a) I am an African American born in Louisiana; of Louisiana born African American parents
b) My ancestry, therefore must include Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); the Wolof were an essential factor in creating Louisiana's Creole culture...
Your logic continues to be non sequitur.
Example: Bob is a European France is in Europe therefore Bob is part French
wake up Wally this whole thread is built on that shoddy logic.
Pure illogical and incorrect nonsense in order to conceal a total inability to accept both logic and fact:
Logic
► Wally is an African American from Louisiana
► Two-thirds of the slaves that arrived in Louisiana were brought from Senegambia; Serer, Wolof, Fulani, Mande.
► Louisiana slaves did not have the choice of ethnic exclusiveness in selecting a mate but were forced to ethnically co-mingle
► Therefore, Wally has Serer, Wolof, Fulani, Mande African ancestry
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Lacking any credible evidence to contradict the evidence provided, the 'detractors' make absolutely incredible and false statements, or try to project their own illogic on what has been stated:
quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Wally, Diop was not a historian
This 'detractor' does not want to be confused by facts (never is); an ad hominem attack on Diop is his point.
ad hominem: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
Fact:
"Cheikh Anta Diop (Born 29 December 1923 in Thieytou, Diourbel Region - Died 7 February 1986 in Dakar) was a historian, anthropologist, physicist, and politician"
Historian: a person who is an authority on history and who studies it and writes about it
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
a) I am an African American born in Louisiana; of Louisiana born African American parents
b) My ancestry, therefore must include Serer, Wolof, Fulani, and Mande (Malinke); the Wolof were an essential factor in creating Louisiana's Creole culture...
Your logic continues to be non sequitur.
Example: Bob is a European France is in Europe therefore Bob is part French
wake up Wally this whole thread is built on that shoddy logic.
Pure illogical and incorrect nonsense in order to conceal a total inability to accept both logic and fact:
Logic
► Wally is an African American from Louisiana
► Two-thirds of the slaves that arrived in Louisiana were brought from Senegambia; Serer, Wolof, Fulani, Mande.
► Louisiana slaves did not have the choice of ethnic exclusiveness in selecting a mate but were forced to ethnically co-mingle
► Therefore, Wally has Serer, Wolof, Fulani, Mande African ancestry
Considering all the factors involved I think there's a good chance you are possibly as much as .021 % Egyptian, you win
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ...Considering all the factors involved I think there's a good chance you are possibly as much as .021 % Egyptian, you win
I "won" when I did the necessary research and study, and posted this topic. However what truly fascinates me is that you postulated that I was .021 percent Egyptian. Tell me, what magical or mystical mathematical formula did you use to arrive at this figure, and more importantly, what is the remaining .979 percent (or 99.979 %) of my ancestry?
Wolof = ? % Serer = ? % Fulani = ? % Yoruba = ? % Igbo = ? % Mande = ? % French = ? % Amerindian = ? % ... The entire world waits with bated breath for your answer... Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Wally: African Americans ancestry is:
It has already been demonstrated that the Wolof, Serer, Fante, Fulani, Igbo, Yoruba, Edo-Bini...once resided in Kemet (Ancient Egypt)...
And of course, in head to head comparisons between African Americans and Whites, the African Americans cluster closer to the Egyptians- ancient or modern, than Whites. Recent studies confirm the same pattern in reports going back to the 1950s...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Fulani: Another branch of African American ancestry
Fertile Saharan (c9,000 ya) middle African cradle
▼
Paal (Kemet; c12th dynasty)
▼
Pël (Paal; Peul, Pulaar, Fulani... - East to West Africa)
▼
African American
Posted by Wally 11 June, 2009
Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, ad infinitum, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
Now look at the following quote, one that places the origin of the Fulani safely in the 'upper Nile region,' which ignores the historical reality that the Fulani were Egyptian nationals prior to their emigration into the upper Nile region,
quote: Fulani history
Some historians believe the Fulani emerged from a prehistoric pastoral group that originated in the upper Nile region around 3500 B.C. As the climate of the Sahara grew increasingly harsh, population pressures drove them to migrate slowly west and south in search of better grazing lands. By the eleventh century the Fulani emerged as a distinct people group in the Sénégambia Valley. Over the next 400 years they journeyed back east, but south of the Sahara, which had become an inhospitable desert.
Traditionally most Fulani are shepherds or cattle herders, but over time some settled down and, by the nineteenth century, had established a series of kingdoms between Sénégal and Cameroon. The Fulani have myths about how the nomads and settled rulers emerged...
...here's some linguistic data comparing Fulani / Mdu Ntr...
I - mi / ni
you - on / un
we - en / un
they - be / bu (people)
to be bad - bonude / boone
bad - boni / bon
death; to die - maayde;maayude / maati, moute, moout, mouti
last year - rawanen / ronpe
eye - yitere / eirti
blessing - barka / baraka
cow - nagge / naga
father - baaba / baba
...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
^^^Good post
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^^Good post
Clyde do you teach any University classes and if so where?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^^Good post
Clyde do you teach any University classes and if so where?
...can't believe it, you're sitting at a computer and you ask a question to which the answer is immediately available! Ever hear of Google or Yahoo! or Bing?...
Dr. Clyde A. Winters Chapter Vice President Unit B
Governors State University 1 University Pkwy University Park, Illinois 60466 United States www.govst.edu
Company Description: Founded in 1969 for working adults, Governors State University currently serves approximately 6,000 students. An upper-division university located in University...
Employment History Curriculum and Research Courses Teacher Governors State University
University Lecturer, College of Education Governors State University
Resource Teacher Chicago Public Schools
Coordinator Undergraduate Foundations
Education Ph.D.
---
Dr.Clyde A. Winters: Historian, anthropologist, and educational psychologist Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^^Good post
Clyde do you teach any University classes and if so where?
...can't believe it, you're sitting at a computer and you ask a question to which the answer is immediately available! Ever hear of Google or Yahoo! or Bing?...
Dr. Clyde A. Winters Chapter Vice President Unit B
Governors State University 1 University Pkwy University Park, Illinois 60466 United States www.govst.edu
Company Description: Founded in 1969 for working adults, Governors State University currently serves approximately 6,000 students. An upper-division university located in University...
Employment History Curriculum and Research Courses Teacher Governors State University
University Lecturer, College of Education Governors State University
Resource Teacher Chicago Public Schools
Coordinator Undergraduate Foundations
Education Ph.D.
---
Dr.Clyde A. Winters: Historian, anthropologist, and educational psychologist
Are you his Secretary or alias ES account? Let the man speak for himself douchbag. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Fulani: Another branch of African American ancestry
Fertile Saharan (c9,000 ya) middle African cradle
▼
Paal (Kemet; c12th dynasty)
▼
Pël (Paal; Peul, Pulaar, Fulani... - East to West Africa)
▼
African American
Posted by Wally 11 June, 2009
Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, ad infinitum, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
Now look at the following quote, one that places the origin of the Fulani safely in the 'upper Nile region,' which ignores the historical reality that the Fulani were Egyptian nationals prior to their emigration into the upper Nile region,
quote: Fulani history
Some historians believe the Fulani emerged from a prehistoric pastoral group that originated in the upper Nile region around 3500 B.C. As the climate of the Sahara grew increasingly harsh, population pressures drove them to migrate slowly west and south in search of better grazing lands. By the eleventh century the Fulani emerged as a distinct people group in the Sénégambia Valley. Over the next 400 years they journeyed back east, but south of the Sahara, which had become an inhospitable desert.
Traditionally most Fulani are shepherds or cattle herders, but over time some settled down and, by the nineteenth century, had established a series of kingdoms between Sénégal and Cameroon. The Fulani have myths about how the nomads and settled rulers emerged...
...here's some linguistic data comparing Fulani / Mdu Ntr...
I - mi / ni
you - on / un
we - en / un
they - be / bu (people)
to be bad - bonude / boone
bad - boni / bon
death; to die - maayde;maayude / maati, moute, moout, mouti
last year - rawanen / ronpe
eye - yitere / eirti
blessing - barka / baraka
cow - nagge / naga
father - baaba / baba
...
A distinction should be made between ordinary Kememou totemic names and those associated with a god or gods;Totemic gods...
Ordinary Totemic names - an animate or inanimate object that serves as an emblem for a particular social group or a people; more generally, any venerated symbol.
EX:
1) The totemic name of the group which ousted the Hyksos was Tau or 'Bread'
2) The totemic name of the group which then became the 18th dynasty was Ioh or "moon"
Totemic God - A god revered by a particular social group or a people. A group totemIc god represents the bond of unity - The group's symbol and protector.
EX:
1) The totemic god of the Mesnitu was Hor, hence they were called Shemsu Hor or "the followers of 'Horus'..."
2) The great totemic ancestor-god of the Kememou was Osiri
The word for Fulani in Wolof is Pël, from this the French derived Peul
PL/PAAL (Pa3L) - FULANI
Budge got this one wrong, the word is written "Pl" and "Paal". I don't know where Budge got the "u" ending as the word is singular and there is no "u" in sight; the "r" is just a Egyptological standardized rendering of the lion as 'r' even though it more often represents the letter "l"...
...and the Fulani in America
The Fulani were noted as expert cattlemen; (It has been suggested that the expertise of Africans with cattle gave rise to the expression "cowboy" as opposed to those who were "houseboys"...)
...
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
▲▲▲ somewhere in the deep recesses of NonProphet's brains, the above photos are supposed to somehow be related to the topic being discussed; or perhaps it's a case of self-induced insanity or medication...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Yoruba: Another branch of African American ancestry
The Yoruba are also from Ancient Egypt...
Ancient Egyptian • Yoruba
ab • abo : female
Abi • Ubi : against / impediment
ade-f • ade : crown
Adumu • Adumu : a water god
af • fo : fly
ak • ako : male
ala • ala : boundary
alu • ole : child,embryo
amon • amon : to hide, concealed
Anubi • Onubi : evil deity, evil person
Apapa • Apapa : name of a port/town in Yoruba-land; name of an Ancient Egyptian town.
apoti • apoti : pot; cup
Aru • Arun : mouth
Aru • Ru : rise, rise up
Ash • Ashe : invocation
atef • ade : crown, plumes
au.nu • o.ni : crocodile
Ausa • Ausa : Osiris, father of the gods, father
ba • o-ba : soul - king regarded as incarnate soul of tribe
baba • baba : father
bahtan • ibatan : compatriot
Bebi, • Ube : first son of osiris, a god
Beka • Be or ka : to pray or confess
Beru • Beru : force of emotion, fear
Bi • Bi : to give birth, to become
bu • Ibu : place
Bu bi • Bubi : evil place
Budo • Budo : dwelling place
buhuru • buburu : evil
Deb/dib • Dibi : to pierce
Didi • Diden : red fruit, red
didu/dudu • didu/dudu : black
Do • Udo : settlement
do • odo : river
dua • a-dua : prayer
Dudu • Dudu : black image of Osiris, black person
e-nen • Irele/I-ne-ne : submission, humility
Edjo • Edjo : cobra
Em • Emi : smell
enen • enen : no
Enru • Eru : fear / terrible
Ere • Ere : Python / Serpent
fa • fa : carry
fahaka • fahaka : silvery fish
Fare • Fari : wrap
Feh • Feh : to go away, to blow away
Ged • Igede : to chant, a chant
hen • hen : yes; nod head
Hepi • Ipi : a water god
Heqet – Re • Ekere : frog deity, the frog
Hika • Ika : evil
hin • yi(n) : praise
Hir • Yiri : praise
hoo • yo : rejoice
Hoo • Yo : rejoice
hor • hor : elevated
Horise • Orise : a great god
Horiwo • Oriwo : head
Horuw • Oruwo : head
I-aro • aro : name of town near a river
Iset • Ise : a water god
ka • O-ka : boa-constrictor
ka • o-kan : heart-soul
Ka • Ka : rest/tired
Kaf • Ka : pluck
Kamwr • Kuru : great black, extremely black
Kan • Okan : one
Ke • Oke : hill
ke-h • a-ke : axe
Kesi • Kesi : district in Upper Egypt; distict in Abeokuta
Kh-onsu • osu : moon
Khenti amenti • yenti : big words of Osiris Yenti , big, very big
Khepara • Akpakara : beetle
Kho-t • o-ko : boat
Khu • I-ku : death
Khu • Khu : to kill, death
ko • ko : reject
ko-t • Ko : build
Kom • Kon : complete
Kot • Oko : boat
kufi • kufi : crown
Kum • Kumo: a club
Kun • Ekun : brave man, title of a brave man
Kurubu • Kurubu : deep and round
Kurud • Kurudu : round
Ma• su • Ma or su : to mould
Ma • Ma : to know
Ma or mi • Mi. : to breathe
ma-su • mo/ma : mould/shapen
Maat • Mate : goddess of justice
Mhebi • Mebi : humble, humble to ones family
mi • omi : water
Min • Emin : a god, spirit
miri • miri : water, dazzle of water
Mu • Mu : water. drink water
nù • nù : to wipe, erase
na-bri-t • I-na-biri : a kind of grain
Nam • Inama : water god
naprit • naprit : seed
Nefer • Ifa : goodness
Nen, • Nene : the primeval water mother, mother
ni • mi : I
No • Eno : a water god
noki • inoki : fabulous beast
Noki-t • Inoki : baboon
nu • I-lu : city, n changed to l
Oba • Oba : to direct, captain, authority, king)
Odonit • Odon : festival
Ola • Olu : Exalted, deity, God
omau • omo : child
Omi • Omi : water
Omitjener • Omijen : deep water
On • One : living person
Oni • Oni : Osiris' ethnicity , title of the king of Ife
Ooru • Ooru : name of field in Yoruba-land; the Elysian Field
Osa • Osa : tide
Osa • Osa : time
Osiri • Oshiri : a water god
Otu • O-l-otu : manager
Pa • Pa : open, break open
pau • o-po : quantity, crowd
Penka • Kpen : divide
Po • Po : many/cheap
ptah • ta : to break open
ka • ga : high
qere-s • ere : image
Ra • Ira : time
Ra • Ra : possess/buy
Ra Shu • Uran shu : light after darkness, the light of the moon
ran • ran : name, call me..
Re • I-re : that which is good, goodness
Rekha • Larikha : knowledge
Ren • Ren : animal foot, to walk
Reti • Retin : to beseech, to listen
ririt • riri : dirty, like a hippo
Ro • Ro : talk, to think
Run• ka • Oruko : spirit name, name
sa • a-sa : shield
sa • o-sa : lagoon
Saddu • Sadu : abode of the dead
Salug • Saluga : god of
Sami • Sami : a water god
Sata • Santan : perfect
Se • Se : to create
se-b • a-se : door, gate
se-t • e-se : sin
Semati • Sema : door keeper, lock/shut the door
Sen • Sen : group of worshippers, to worship
Shabu • Ashonbo : watcher
Shekiri • Shekiri : a water god
So • So : watch
Sua-u • Sa(n) : wash, consecrate. Ibo Sua: wash
Sueg • Suegbe : a fool
suru-d • suru : forbearance
Ta • Ta : spread out
Ta • Ta : sell
Ta • Ita : land, land junction
Tan • Tan : complete
Tebu • Tebu : a town
Un • Una : living person
Unas • Una : lake of fire, fire
we-b • we : wash, make clean
Win • Wino : to be
wu • wu : rise, swell
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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
also, the following words for "Peace" are linguistically related, don't you think:
AFTER THE FALL: ANCIENT EGYPTIAN MIGRATIONS TO WEST AFRICA...
Exiled Egyptians: the heart of Africa By Moustafa Gadalla
The Yoruba
The Kotoko
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally, Wally, Wally,
I came back to straighten you out and tell you
BE CAREFUL.
The Ancient Egyptians are dead in their graves. It is useless to post pictures comparing us to modern Egyptians or any others. They are a mix of 2,500 years of mixing since the fall of the last AE empire.
The people of northeast Africa are part native, part Arab, part Turk, part European, part Berber from medieval immigration into Egypt and part West African due to slavery from West Africa.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
We African Americans come in all colors from very Black to almost White. This comparison of skin colors can be divisive. What we will get is the acceptance of lighter skinned African Americans and the rejection of darker ones. That's not good.
Plus, Black America is the #1 Black ethnic group in the world and many foreign Blacks come to the USA and take on and African American identity and sometimes surpass the real African Americans.
W.E.B. DuBois didn't like Marcus Garvey.
See the problem.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
While you study AE,
A man of Indian descent rules over Louisiana and the Oov.-elect of South Carolina is of Indian descent.
This Egyptian woman who is a leader in AMERICAN journalism never says she's from Egyot. She says that she is from NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA.
WAKE UP AND CLAIM YOUR AFRICAN AMERICAN HERITAGE WHILE YOU STILL CAN, WALLY.
They want what you got.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
There are thousands of modern Egyptians in America. There are thousands of modern Africans in the USA from other places like Ethiopia and Nigeria.
Iman has become one of us. She has gone were real African American supermodels haven't.
This Cuban speaks for Black America. Really???
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
1/3 of our Ancestors who were in slavery were Muslim. They spoke Arabic which is a Afro-Asiatic language. Some spoke Hausa and Tuareg which are Afro-Asiatic languages, The Tuaregs were enslaved in LOUISIANA which I told you already.
TUAREG TUAREG TUAREG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hoodoo is a Hausa word which is the name that South Carolina witchcraft is called.
To repeat: NO, hoodoo is not related etymologically as a word to voodoo. There is a thin strand of semantic connection only. In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, black slaves of Hausa origin brought with them to their enslavement in the American south a distinct magic practice called "hoodoo." The word comes directly from the Hausa language where the verb hu'du'ba means 'to arouse resentment, produce retribution.' Voodoo is a different word and quite a different concept. The word voodoo comes from another African language called Ewe where vodu is the name of a specific demon or tutelary deity. Voodoo passed into American English by way of Louisiana Creole voudou. Very early in America, hoodoo came to mean 'jinx' or 'cast a spell on' as a noun and a verb: "Something hoodooed me out in the swamp last night. I think it was my ex-husband."
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Ahmed's guess that "Hausa" might be related to "Hawassa" is dead on, in my estimation. This is an Egyptian name. In fact, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities is Zahi Hawass. January 10, 2010 5:06 PM Digare Ahmed said...
Hola Mss. Alice Actually the word 'Hausa' sounds more to be alike with Hawass, and one more of this is that its also close to Habesha,those from Sokkoto when refering to Hausa man they say 'Ba Habshe' meaning of Hausa origin in that case it then sounded like Habesha, or indeed back in ancient time due to travelling on the back of cows they indeed drived their name from that, as in COW in Hausa = "sa" and climbing = "hawa" so I suggest it began with the name THOSE ON THE BACK OF COW = "masu hawa sa" then it becomes hawasa as time goes by. Alice now we do have 3 different subjects to be discuss. Though I am not Hausa but I can speaks Hausa more than my mother tongue Peul language.
Thanks
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally, you need to laarn the history of your family and the history of your African American ancestors.
It's alright to learn about Ancient Egypt, but Black America is #1 in 2010! Who knows what the AE's would say if they could arise out of their graves and look at modern society today.
Maybe they would side with the African Americans and maybe not. They would worry about modern Egypt and those who are their direct descendants. They would worry about the modern Egyptians despite their color.
We are derived from the Black skinned people of West Africa from Senegal to Angola. If the Ancient Egyptians had the concept of the Nine Bows and were ethnocentric, how do you know they would side with us over the people of the Nile?
What would they think? Reversal of Fortune?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Wally, Wally, Wally,
I came back to straighten you out and tell you
BE CAREFUL...
No, It appears that you have 'come' back here merely to spam this topic with your incoherent nonsense; and it's also apparent that you haven't read or followed this topic closely or perhaps you're displaying an inability to grasp what is being presented here...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
^^^^^Agreed
If Red,White and Blue+Christian knew his history he would know that AA history goes back farther than slavery. He has been tricked into believing that AA history should begin and end with slavery.
Wally is writing about our ancient history so we can fully comprehend our history.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally
Why don't you enlighten everyone on why the Ancient Egyptians would migrate to western Africa?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally
Why don't you enlighten everyone on why the Ancient Egyptians would migrate to western Africa?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:"For too long, social and political commentators have talked and written as though Africa lies outside the main stream of world historical development--a separate entity to which the social, economic and political patterns of the world do not apply. " - Kwame Nkrumah - Class Struggle in Africa
These distortions can be seen everywhere, and on every topic, including even this one:
1) the migrations of European tribes, their formations into ethnic groups and nationalities, are presented matter of factly and calmly accepted as such. i.e., http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MA/GERMANS.HTM
2) in discussing African migrations, we suddenly shift to some amazing distortions that simply defy common sense and logic -
-- a) "Egyptians remained in Egypt"; but of course the Slavs, Goths, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Greeks, did not remain in their homelands...
--b) "there is no evidence of a mass exodus from Egypt to West Africa"; now we're in the Bible! And what are described in Europe as migrations, in Africa it suddenly has to become an 'exodus' or of Africans 'fleeing' - Africans, perhaps the most mobile of groups on the planet, can only move from a spot in order 'to flee' an oppression, nee exodus...
3) add nauseum
---
Ancient Egypt was a Pan-African state; a collective of African ethnicities who were drawn to this land due to the similar enticements which would lead others to migrate to Rome, to England, and to America...
Ancient Egypt was held together by culture and the unifying lingua franca of the Mdu Ntr...
And like in Ancient Ghana, Songhai...Africans came freely from and left freely to other parts of the Continent; this social pattern exists to this day.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I agree with Clyde and Wally.
Red, White and Fruitcake is a Pure D moron.
His postings are unintelligible ramblings that make the inmates from the county mental ward seem like college valedictorians compared to him.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
So you are saying that these people walked all the way to western Africa just to stand on its coasts and wave "here we are take us to the Americas as slaves"?
Does that make sense to you Wally? Why would they do such a thing? Why didn't they just leave?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: So you are saying that these people walked all the way to western Africa just to stand on its coasts and wave "here we are take us to the Americas as slaves"?
Does that make sense to you Wally? Why would they do such a thing? Why didn't they just leave?
Many of the Pan-African groups that made up the multi-ethnic Egyptian Empire had already moved to West Africa, so after the decline in Egypt following Greek and Roman rule they moved westward to join their fellow nationality.
Probably since the Persians and Assyrians first conquered the Egyptians there had been a slow replacement of ancient Egyptians by Middle Eastern and Western European peoples.
Beginning with the Assyrian defeat of the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty large number of nomadic people from the Middle East began to migrate into Egypt. These people began to take over many Egyptian settlements, while other Egyptians fled to Nubia and Kush to avoid non-Egyptian rule.
Other ancient Egyptian caused political and military conflicts that led many Egyptians to migrate out of Egypt into Nubia and Kush. Herodotus’ mentions the mutiny of Psamtik I’s frontier garrison at Elephantine—these deerters moved into Kush. Moreover, the archaizing trend in Kush among the post Twenty-Fifth Dynasty Kings testfy to a possible large migration of Egyptians into Kush. Many may have made the migration after the Persians took Egypt.
In 343 BC Nectanebos II, fled to Upper Egypt. Later according to the Natasen period stela we evidence of other Egyptians migrating into Kush from Egypt (Torok, 1997, p.391).
Between the 260’s-270’s BC Upper Egyptian Nationalists were fighting the Ptolemy (Greek) rulers of Egypt. The rebellion was put down by Ptolemy II. This military action led to Egyptians migrating out of Egypt into Kush (Torok, pp.395-396). These rebellions continued in Egypt into the 2nd Century BC (Torok, p.426).
Between Ptolomy II and Ptolemy V, the Greeks began to settle Egypt. This was especially true in the 150’sBC and led to many Egyptians migrating back into Egypt.
By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
By the rise of Greeks in Egypt, the cultural ideology , like the people were changing. This is supported by the transition from Demotic writing (7th 5th Centuries BC) to Coptic (4th BC-AD 1400). The Coptic people are the best evidence for the change in the Egyptian population.
As new people moved into Egypt, Egyptians left an unstable Egypt to live with their countrymen in West, Central and East Africa.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde, are you saying they were too stupid to leave? Afterall, supposedly so called "west" Africans were disappearing day after day after day after day for over 400 years at a clip of hundreds to thousands of people a day.
Clyde?
Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Also Clyde, you are saying that outside influences made the Egyptians leave their homeland. Therefore the logical question to ask is why wouldn't this also be the case with so called "west" Africa?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde, are you saying they were too stupid to leave? Afterall, supposedly so called "west" Africans were disappearing day after day after day after day for over 400 years at a clip of hundreds to thousands of people a day.
Clyde?
Wally?
...sigh...already previously clarified, for most, within this topic where I wrote:
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose. The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
African slaves were a commodity, just like cocoa, ivory, gold, bauxite, which Africans sold to the Europeans, Arabs...
Like all commodities, it was necessary and efficient to transport these commodities from the interior to coastal ports for exportation. The Europeans, for example, did not just saunter in and cherry pick these commodities at will nor were they able to do so, if so inclined...
The East African ports in Mozambique were a source of African slaves not only from Kenya but from the entire east and central African territory...
<><><>
The Diola; an example
The Diola form 9% of the population of Senegal. Some oral sources (Griots) contend that the Diola originated in Egypt and traveled across North Africa in c1000 B.C., settling in the Niger wetlands. Drought and wars later forced them south. As a minority group, and fair game for capture, they fled to the marshes and swamps of the Casamance during the slave trade era, thus becoming the earliest settlers south of the Gambia River.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
That still does not provide a sensible explanation as to why they didn't leave.
Again Wally,
supposedly so called "west" Africans were disappearing day after day after day after day for over 400 years at a clip of hundreds to thousands of people a day.
And since you added them in also Wally, include Tanzania and Mozambique.
Wouldn't these people leave? If not, why?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, Clyde, and for that matter anyone else answer this question.
Do you think there was a phenotype for slaves?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde, are you saying they were too stupid to leave? Afterall, supposedly so called "west" Africans were disappearing day after day after day after day for over 400 years at a clip of hundreds to thousands of people a day.
Clyde?
Wally?
No. The coastal people went further and further inland to kidnap people. This meant that as African people fled the slave trade slave traders would go out in search of them.
This is way we see the slaving regions of Africa move southward, so slave traders could exploit new sources of slaves.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally, Clyde, and for that matter anyone else answer this question.
Do you think there was a phenotype for slaves?
Of course not. American slave traders took slaves from anywhere they could find them-- including whites. This is why many American slaves came from South India and etc.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: .
And since you added them in also Wally, include Tanzania and Mozambique.
Wouldn't these people leave? If not, why?
Many people left but in Mozambique entire areas were depopulated. The most fantastic thing is that they could carry so many slaves away. It was easy to get these slaves because people lived in small villages and the lack of of communication may have led to some groups not moving away fast enough. Plus you should also remember that many people were sold into slavery by their fellow countrymen.
On the Island of Madagascar, which also contributed to 100,000s of slaves--the people fled into the jungle to escape slave traders. Many of these people avoid contact with outsiders today.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Also Clyde, you are saying that outside influences made the Egyptians leave their homeland. Therefore the logical question to ask is why wouldn't this also be the case with so called "west" Africa?
The West Africans did not flee their lands in great numbers because once they recognized what was going on they resisted the slave traders. This is why we see the slave trade moving from North to South. In the 13 Colonies for example most slaves were fro the Guinea Coast and Senegambia region. The slaves in the French colonies that made up the Lousiana purchase on the otherhand included large numbers of Bantu and Yoruba since it was from Nigeria and Angola that many French slaves originated.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Clyde Kush is not West Africa. Some back and forth migration noted by Torok is into the neighboring southern region Kush. There isn't evidence of significant migrations from ancient Egypt to West Africa. Neither is their evidence of post dynastic migrants from Asia coming in in numbers large enough surpass the native Egyptians. Also there are tribes In parts of Africa far from Egypt that claim Egyptians ancestry. These claims are often just hearsay, how easy it would be for anybody to say they had a hand in the culture that built the pyramids with no proof to back it up. Further if a given tribe were to have had ancestry from Egypt it could have been prior to the civilization. Claims could be true but there would need to be evidence to back it up. We can't just go by what we want to be true.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Clyde Kush is not West Africa. Some back and forth migration noted by Torok is into the neighboring southern region Kush. There isn't evidence of significant migrations from ancient Egypt to West Africa. Neither is their evidence of post dynastic migrants from Asia coming in in numbers large enough surpass the native Egyptians. Also there are tribes In parts of Africa far from Egypt that claim Egyptians ancestry. These claims are often just hearsay, how easy it would be for anybody to say they had a hand in the culture that built the pyramids with no proof to back it up. Further if a given tribe were to have had ancestry from Egypt it could have been prior to the civilization. Claims could be true but there would need to be evidence to back it up. We can't just go by what we want to be true.
You don't know anything about Egyptian history. The Greeks and Romans were very racists.
In fact Egyptians were often not permitted to live in certain towns. Given the persecution of native Egyptians provided the Egyptians with ample desire to make a staement with their feet--i.e., getting away from the racist practices .
It is clear you have not been following the thread. Wally has establiehed the following points:
1. Egypt was a multi-ethnic society.
2. Egyptian names indicate that African tribes found in West Africa today, lived in a number of Egyptian Nomes.
3. Ancient Egyptian was a lingua franca.
It has also been established that speakers of the Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and etc. languages originated in Nubia. Now speakers of these languages live in West Africa. This provides evidence of the origin and spread of peeople from the Egyptian region into West Africa. Many of these people formerly worshiped Amun (> Amma) whic was the main diety for Egyptians living in the southern nomes.
Finally, ancient Kush is just a hop and a skip from Cameroon and Chad which has been a gateway into West Africa for many African populations.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Fula speak a language that is part of the Niger-Congo group.There is controversy surrounding the homeland of Niger-Congo.But most linguist place the homeland for this linguistic group in the Nile Valley. An origin of the Niger-Congo people in the Nile Valley would explain the close relationship between the Fulani and Egyptian languages; and place Fulani in East Africa.
For example, Jaja, J. M. 2008 “Interdisciplinary Methods for the Writing of “African History: A Reappraisal,” European Journal of Social Sciences 5(4): 55-65
quote:
(2) Niger – Kordofanian homeland The West African region is largely made up of the Niger-Kordofanian language family. The block of course excludes the 100 or 50 languages classified as Afro-Asiatic and the Songhai and Kanuri languages which belong to the Nile -–Saharan group. The Niger – Kordofanian family is composed of three large blocks called the Mande, Niger – Congo and Kordofanian. Niger – Congo occupies the eastern section of West Africa, Mande the Western section and Kordofanian the area to the south west of Sudan. The present geographical location of these three language blocks forms a fanlike structure, which suggests that their homeland is at the south-western Sahara where the boundaries of each group converge. The Mande group does not have the same degree of internal diversity as the Niger – Congo and Kordofanian. But Niger-Congo and Kordofanian have the same degree of diversity. (Dalby 1965). A combination of this fact and the fan-shaped arrangement of the three language blocks suggests that they belong to the same main language family. Besides, the unfavourable ecological situation north of the homeland, and the possibility of only moving southwards explains the fan-shaped nature of the dispersal to the area of southwestern Sahara.
Jaja discusses the present location of the speakers of these languages, but like Welmers he situates there homeland in the Sahara near Nubia.
McIntosh, R. J. 1998 The Peoples of the Middle Niger: the Island of Gold Oxford: Blackwell Publishers
quote:
Thus, we have a curious—and complex—pattern of prehistoric occupation in the Méma. There are a few sites demonstrably earlier than c. 4500-4000 BP [3.3-2.5 KBC]. There is a flourit of stone-using communities around 3500-3300 BP [1.9-1.6KBC] (with population injections from the Hodh and the Azawad). Then the region suffers an apparent sharp fall-off of population at c. 800-500 BC (despite a final infusion of Tichitt folk at mid-millennium)..
Does not contradict Welmer’s, all it says is that people from Dar Tichitt entered the area around 800-500 BC, this was hundreds of years after the Mande had established settlement in the Dar Tichitt region.
Roger Blench, Is Niger-Congo simply a branch of Nilo-Saharan, Nilo-Saharan ,(1995) 10:83-128, like Welmer’s noted that :
"Previous writers, noting the concentration of families in West Africa, have tended to assume a location somewhere near the headwaters of the Niger and explained Kordofanian by the migration of a single group. If the present classification is accepted, it becomes far more likely that the homeland was in in the centre of present-daySudan and the Kordofanian represents the Niger-Congo speakers who stayed at home (p.98)."
Roger Blench. 2006. Archaeology, Language, and the African Past New York: Altamira Press
quote:
pp. 132-133. With some misgivings, Table 3.4 puts forward dates and possible motives for expansion for the families of Niger-Congo. The dates are arranged in order of antiquity, not in the hypothetical order suggested by the genetic tree, and, in many cases the two are strongly at variance. There is no necessary correlation between the age of a family estimated from its apparent internal diversity and the date at which it appears to split from the Niger-Congo tree.. . . . .
MANDE 6000 BP Mande languages have spread from north to south with scattered outliers in Nigeria and Cote d’Ivoire. Mande shares the common Niger-Congo roots for cow and goat, and perhaps the Proto-Mande were an isolated livestock-keeping population at the edge of the desert, which expanded southward as habitat change created potential space for livestock keeping. Reconstructions implying cropping are not present in the protolanguage.
Christopher Ehret. 2000 “Language and History,” in B. Heine and D. Nurse, eds. African Languages.An Introduction pp. 274-297 Canbridge: Cambridge University Press
quote:
p. 294 A second, but still early and important stage in Niger-Congo history was the proto-Mande-Congo era. At this period, or so it appears from the evidence of word histories, the cultivation of the guinea yam and possibly other crops, such as the oil palm, began among at least the peoples of the Atlantic and Ijo-Congo branches of the family (Williamson 1993 proposes the early words for these crops; Greenberg 1964 identifies an Atlantic and Ijo-Congo verb for cultivation, •-lim-). Between possibly about 8000 and 6000 BC, these people spread across the woodland savannahs of West Africa, the natural environment of the Guinea yams. At that time, woodland savannah environments extended several hundred kilometers farther north into the Sudan belt than they do today.
The Blench hypothesis of the Mande living in the Sahara and moving southward does not conflict with my theory of a Saharan origin for the Mande speakers.
The term lim, is not the Mande term to cultivate.
In al-Imfeld, Decolonizing: African Agricultural History (2007) , claims that in relation to African agriculture the cultivation of yam began 10,000 years ago and rice cultivation in Africa by 6000 BC.
The major cultivated crop of the Mande speakers was millet not the yam. The term for cultivation among the Mande was not lim is Proto-Paleo-Afro-Dravidian *be . Millet was probably cultivated over 5000 years ago.
The earliest sites for the cultivation of millet lie in the Sahara . Here the earliest archaeological evidence has been found for African millets.
The major grain exploited by Saharan populations was rice ,the yam and pennisetum. McIntosh and McIntosh (1988) has shown that the principal domesticate in the southern Sahara was bulrush millet (pennisetum). Millet impressions have been found on Mande ceramics from both Karkarchinkat in the Tilemsi Valley of Mali, and Dar Tichitt in Mauritania between 4000 and 3000 BP. (McIntosh & McIntosh 1983a,1988; Winters 1986b; Andah 1981)
The linguistic evidence indicates that the Mande and Dravidian speakers formerly lived in intimate contact , in the Sahara. The speakers of these languages share many terms for agriculture.
Given the archaeological evidence for millets in the Sahara, leads to the corollary theory that if the Dravidians originated in Africa, they would share analogous terms for millet with African groups that formerly lived in the Sahara.
One of the principal groups to use millet in Africa are the Northern Mande speaking people . The Mande speaking people belong to the Niger-Congo group. Most linguist agree that the Mande speakers were the first Niger-Congo group to leave the original Nile Valley and Saharan highland primary homeands of the Niger-Congo speakers.
The Northern Mande speakers are divided into the Soninke and Malinke-Bambara groups. Holl (1985,1989) believes that the founders of the Dhar Tichitt site where millet was cultivated in the 2nd millenium B.C., were northern Mande speakers. To test this theory we will compare Dravidian and Black African agricultural terms, especially Northern Mande. The linguistic evidence suggest that the Proto-Dravidians belonged to an ancient sedentary culture which existed in Saharan Africa. We will call the ancestor of this group Paleo-Dravido-Africans.
The Dravidian terms for millet are listed in the Dravidian Etymological Dictionary at 2359, 4300 and 2671. A cursory review of the linguistic examples provided below from the Dravidian (Kol, Tamil ,Kannanda, & Malayalam ) , Mande and Wolof languages show a close relationship between these language. These terms are outlined below:
code:
Kol sonna --- --- ---- Wolof (AF.) suna --- ---- --- Mande (AF) suna bara, baga de-n, doro koro Tamil connal varaga tinai kural Malayalam colam varaku tina --- Kannanda --- baraga, baragu tene korale,korle *sona *baraga *tenä *kora
Below we will compare other Dravidian and African agricultural terms. These terms come from the Mande languages (Malinke, Kpelle, Bambara, Azer, Soninke), West Atlantic (Wolof, Fulani), Afro-Asiatic (Oromo, Galla), Somali, Nubian and the ancient Egyptian. The Paleo-Dravido-Africans came from a sedentary culture that domesticated cattle and grew numerous crops including wheat and millet. The Egyptian term for cultivation is Ø b j(w) #. Egyptian Ø b j(w) # corresponds to many African terms for cultivation:
code:
Galla baji 'cultivated field' Tulu (Dravidian language) bey, benni Nubian ba, bat 'hoe up ground' Malinke be Somali beer Wolof mbey, ambey, bey Egyptian b j(w) Sumerian buru, bur 'to root up'
These terms for cultivate suggest that the Paleo-African term for cultivate was *be.
The Egyptian term for grain is 0 sa #. This corresponds to many African terms for seed,grain:
code:
Galla senyi Malinke se , si Sumerian se Egyptian sen 'granary' Kannanda cigur
Bozo sii Bambara sii Daba sisin Somali sinni Loma sii Susu sansi Oromo sanyi Dime siimu Egyptian ssr 'corn' id. ssn 'lotus plant' id. sm 'herb, plant' id. isw 'weeds'
The identification of a s>Ø/#_________e pattern for 'seed,grain' in the above languages suggest that these groups were familiar with seeds at the time they separated into distinct Supersets. The fact that Sumerian Ø se # and Egyptian Ø sen #, and Malinke Ø se # are all separated both in time and geographical area highlight the early use of seeds * se , by Paleo-Dravido-Africans.
code:
Rice Soninke dugo Vai ko'o Manding malo Dravidian mala-kurula Mende molo, konu Kpelle moloy Boko mole Bisa muhi Busa mole Sa mela Bambara kini
Yam Bozo ku, kunan Vai jambi Malinke ku Dravidian kui, kuna, ku Bambara ku
It would appear that all the Proto-Dravidians were familiar with the cultivation of rice, yams and millet. This is not surprising because Weber (1998) made it clear that millet cultivation in ancient South Asia was associated with rice cultivation.
The linguistic evidence clearly show similarities in the Afican and Dravidian terms for plant domesticates. This suggest that these groups early adopted agriculture and made animal domestication secondary to the cultivation of millet, rice and yams. The analogy for the Malinke-Bambara and Dravidians terms for rice, millet and yams suggest a very early date for the domestication of these crops.
In summary, population pressure in the Sahara during a period of increasing hyperaridity forced hunter/gather/fisher Proto-Dravido-African people to first domesticate animals and then crops. The linguistic evidence discussed above indicate that the Proto-Dravido-African people migrated out of the Nile Valley to West African and Harappan sites with millet, yam and rice already recognized as principal domesticated crop.
This comparison of Mande agricultural terms make it clear, that just like the Egyptian term for dog uher , the speakers of these languages share the terms for cultivate, and seed. It also shows that before the Dravidians separated from the Mande speakers these groups were cultivating also cultivating rice and the yam.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Niger-Congo speakers which include the Fula, Mande and Wolof originated in the Nile Valley—not West Africa. They migrated from East to West. The oral traditions of these people make it clear that when they arrived on the scene pygmy people were already settled in many areas they occupied.
quote: Wm. E. Welmers. 1971 "Niger-Congo, Mande" in T.A. Sebeok, et al. eds. Linguistics in sub-Saharan Africa (Current Trends in Linguistics, 7), pp. 113-140 The Hague: Mouton
P 119-120. By way of conclusion to this general overview of the Mande languages, a a bit of judicious speculation about Mande origins and migrations may not be out of order. It has already been stated that the Mande languages clearly represent the earliest offshoot from the parent Niger-Congo stock—not counting Kordofanian, which Greenberg considers parallel to all of the Niger-Congo, forming a Niger-Kordofanian macrofamily. An original Niger-Congo homeland in the general vicinity of the upper Nile valley is probably as good a hypothesis as any. From such a homeland, a westward Mande migration may have begun well over 5000 years ago. Perhaps the earliest division within this group resulted in the isolation of what is now represented only by Bobo-fing. Somewhat later— perhaps 3500 to 4500 years ago, and possibly from a new homeland around northern Dahomey [now Benin]— the ancestors of the present Northern-western Mande peoples began pushing farther west, ultimately reaching their present homeland in the grasslands and forests of West Africa. This was followed by a gradual spread of the Southern-Eastern division, culminating perhaps 2000 years ago in the separation of its to branches and the ultimate movement of Southern Mande peoples southeast and westward until Mano and Kpelle, long separated, became once more contiguous.
This reconstruction of Mande prehistory receives striking support from a most unexpected source— dogs. Back in the presumed Niger-Congo homeland—the southern Sudan and northern Uganda of modern times— is found the unique barkless, worried-looking, fleet Basenji, who also appears on ancient Egyptian monuments with the typical bee that compensates for his natural silence. Among the Kpelle and Loma people of Liberia, a breed of dogs is found which is so closely identical to the Basenji that it now recognized as the ‘Liberian Basenji’. In all of the Sudan belt of Africa from the Nile Valley to the Liberian forest, the dogs are somewhat similar in appearance, but very obviously mongrelized. It would appear that the Mande peoples originally took their Basenji dogs with them in their westward migration. At that time, the present Sahara desert was capable of sustaining a substantial population, and was presumably the homeland of the Nilo-Saharan peoples. The early Mande moment thus may have been through uninhabited land, and their dogs were spared any cross-breeding. The farthest westward Mande movement—that of the Southwestern group—was virtually complete before contact with dogs of other breeds. With the gradual drying of the Sahara and the southward movement of the Nilo-Saharan peoples, the remaining Mande peoples, as well as later waves of Niger-Congo migration made contact with other people and other dogs. The present canine population of the Liberian forests thus reflects the very early departure of the Mande peoples from their original homeland, and the subsequent early movement of the Southwestern group towards its present location, without contacting substantial number of unrelated people or dogs.
Liberian Basenji
Egyptian Basenji Egyptian Basenji Dog Hieroglyph
. Trade might account for the presence of Basenji dogs in both places. But, from the sense of the article, Welmers claims that speakers of other African languages surrounding the Kpelle have different dogs.
The term for Basenji may be uher. In Egyptian uher also means house, so some people claim the Egyptians placed a dog size after uher to denote the term dog.
Niger-Congo hunters probably early domesticated the dog. Hunters used dogs to catch their prey .
Egyptian Hieroglyph
.
Egyptian term for dog corresponds to many African, and Dravidian terms for dog:
Egptian uher
Azer wulle
Bozo kongoro
Guro bere
Vai wuru, ulu
Bo[Bambara] -ulu
Wassulunka wulu
Konyanka wulu
Malinke wuli, wuru, wulu
Dravidian ori
.
The above data indicates that there is contrast between Paleo-Afican l =/= r. The Egyptian Ø uher # , Azer Ø wulle # and Manding Ø wuru # suggest that the r > l in Paleo-African.
There is also vowel alternation in the terms for dog o =/= u. The predominance of the vowel /u/ in the terms for dog, make it clear that o<u. This evidence suggest that there are two Paleo-African terms for dog: Paleo-African [PA] *uru and *oro.
Futhermore, this comparison of the term for dog within and among Niger-Congo languages and Egyptian supports Welmers view that the dog was domesticated in the Nile Valley before the speakers of these languages separated, and migrated to other parts of Africa.
The key to science, is that control is used to test the cause of a hypothesis, layman rarely use control, they accept a hypothesis gased on belief and biases.
Finally scientists test relationships to determine their validity. Science is concerned only with things that can be tested and observed.
Let's look at Welmers hypothesis. All research begins with a research question.
Research Question: Where did the Niger Congo speakers originate?
Null hypothesis: There is no relationship between the present location of the Niger-Congo speakers and the original homeland of the speakers of these languages.
Result: The Niger Congo speakers probably originated in the Nile Valley because the Kpelle , who speak a Mande language, have the basanji dog, which was the domesticated dog of the Egyptians and other Nile Valley people.
The hypothesis was further supported by a most interesting finding, that was that the basanji dog is not the hunting dog of other ethnic groups inhabiting areas between the Nile Valley and where the Mande speakers live.
Welmers hypothesis was confirmed. To disconfirm this hypothesis you have to present evidence that nullifies the findings of Welmers.
To test Welmers hypothesis, I compared the Egyptian term for dog and the Mande term for dog. The linguistic evidence supports the physical evidence discussed by Welmer. Wm. E. Welmers identified the Niger Congo home land. Welmers in "Niger-Congo Mande", Current trends in Linguistics 7 (1971), pp.113-140,explained that the Niger-Congo homeland was in the vicinity of the upper Nile valley (p.119). He believes that the Westward migration began 5000 years ago.
In support of this theory he discusses the dogs of the Niger-Congo speakers. This is the unique barkless Basenji dogs which live in the Sudan and Uganda today, but were formerly recorded on Egyptian monuments (Wlemers,p.119). According to Welmers the Basanji, is related to the Liberian Basenji breed of the Kpelle and Loma people of Liberia. Welmers believes that the Mande took these dogs with them on their migration westward. The Kpelle and Loma speak Mande languages.
He believes that the region was unoccupied when the Mande migrated westward. In support of this theory Welmers' notes that the Liberian Banji dogs ,show no cross-breeding with dogs kept by other African groups in West Africa, and point to the early introduction of this cannine population after the separation of the Mande from the other Niger-Congo speakers in the original upper Nile homeland for this population. As a result, he claims that the Mande migration occured before these groups entered the region.
Linguistic research make it clear that there is a close relationship between the Niger-Congo Superlanguage family and the Nilo-Saharan languages spoken in the Sudan. Heine and Nurse (Eds.), in African languages: An introduction , Cambridge University Press, 2000, discuss the Nilo-Saharan connection. They note that when Westerman (1911) described African languages he used lexical evidence to include the Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo languages into a Superfamily he called "Sudanic" (p.16). Using Morphological and lexical similarities Gregerson (1972) indicated that these languages belonged to a macrophylum he named " Kongo-Saharan" (p.16). Research by Blench (1995) reached the same conclusion, and he named this Superfamily: "Niger-Saharan".
Genetic evidence supports the upper Nile origin for the Niger-Congo speakers. Rosa et al, in Y-Chromosomal diversity in the population of Guinea-Bissau (2007), noted that while most Mande & Balanta carry the E3a-M2 gene, there are a number of Felupe-Djola, Papel, Fulbe and Mande carry the M3b*-M35 gene the same as many people in the Sudan.
In conclusion, Welmers proposed an upper Nile (Sudan-Uganda) homeland for the Niger-Congo speakers. He claims that they remained intact until 5000 years ago. This view is supported by linguistic and genetics evidence. The linguistic evidence makes it clear that the Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo languages are related. The genetic evidence indicates that Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo speakers carry the M3b*-M35 gene, an indicator for the earlier presence of speakers of this language in an original Nile Valley homeland.
In summary Welmer’s makes two key points: 1) the Mande migration began around 3000BC out of the Nile Valley; and 2)Welmers proposed migration from Benin around 1500BC, 1500 years after the initial migration of the Mande from the Nile Valley.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Inyotef son of Ka
Wm. E. Welmers identified the Niger Congo home land. Welmers in "Niger-Congo Mande", Current trends in Linguistics 7 (1971), pp.113-140,explained that the Niger-Congo homeland was in the vicinity of the upper Nile valley (p.119). He believes that the Westward migration began 5000 years ago.
In support of this theory he discusses the dogs of the Niger-Congo speakers. This is the unique barkless Basenji dogs which live in the Sudan and Uganda today, but were formerly recorded on Egyptian monuments (Wlemers,p.119). According to Welmers the Basanji, is related to the Liberian Basenji breed of the Kpelle and Loma people of Liberia. Welmers believes that the Mande took these dogs with them on their migration westward. The Kpelle and Loma speak Mande languages.
He believes that the region was unoccupied when the Mande migrated westward. In support of this theory Welmers' notes that the Liberian Banji dogs ,show no cross-breeding with dogs kept by other African groups in West Africa, and point to the early introduction of this cannine population after the separation of the Mande from the other Niger-Congo speakers in the original upper Nile homeland for this population. As a result, he claims that the Mande migration occured before these groups entered the region.
Homburger made it clear that the Fula language was related to the Egyptians of the 12th Dynasty. This is interesting because we find that at this time new rulers came to power in Egypt from the South. This period is often called the Middle Kingdom.
Many of these “southerners” probably included many people who later settled West Africa. As noted earlier the marker for the spread of the Niger-Congo speakers is the basanji dog. The hieroglyphic for "dog," in fact, as evidenced on a stele from the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, derives from the basenji. In just a few strokes, the engraver captures the key characteristics: pricked ears, curled tail and graceful carriage. It is probably no coincidence that the Basanji was see as the principal dog it probably represents the coming of power of the Niger-Congo speakers in ancient Egypt.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
It would be quite interesting if these nomes were formerly prominent southern nomes who gained prominence once the Inyotefs came to power.
Between 2258 2052 BC civil war broke out among the nobles of Egypt. During this period of disunity there was much suffering in the land and many of the fine cultural developments of the Old Kingdoms were discarded or rarely practiced. This period of chaos is called the "First Intermediate Period". A person who lived during this hard time named Iperwer, wrote Great and humble say: "I wish I might die". Little children cry out: "I never should have been born". Also during this time Lower Egypt was invaded by Asian people who ruled there for a long time.
Inyotef I
During this period of decline it was the Southerners who made it possible for the raise of Egypt back into a world power. These Southerners were called "Inyotefs", they lived around a city in Upper Egypt called "Thebes". Inyotef I founded the 11th Dynasty and made Thebes his capital.Inyotef declared himself king c 2125-2112 BC.
Inyotef I opposed Ankhtify of Heracleopolitan who he defeated. It was Inyotef who consolidated power in the south. Inyotef II (Wahankh) also fought the Heracleopolitans. He loved dogs especially the basenji.
Egyptian Basenji Egyptian Basenji Dog Hieroglyph
I believe that some of the southern nomes led by the Inyotefs were composed of people who later migrated to West Africa after the Romans came to power. The Thebians were closely united with the Nubians.
Inyotef I was the father Mentuhotep I. Several of the wives of Mentuhotep II were Nubians. Under Mentuhotep, the delta chiefs were defeated and Egypt was united again into one country.
Mentuhotep Under the Amenemhet I, of the Xllth dynasty the capital was moved form Thebes to Lisht near Memphis. This dynasty and those thereafter are called the Middle Kingdom.
Amenemhet
MIDDLE KINGDOM
It took strong leadership for the Egyptians to re establish the greatness of Egypt and the establishment of safe and secure borders.
The rulers during the Middle Kingdom were mostly men from the military. They frequently made raids into foreign lands in search of booty. And for the first time in Egyptian history a permanent army was founded to protect Egypt and keep it strong.
Amon became the major God of the Egyptians during the Middle Period. Amon was recognized at this time as the God of all Gods. This Amon was also called Amma by the Proto Saharans.
It is interesting to note that the Mande and other West African people like the Dogon and Dravidians worshipped the god Amma.
The fact that Mande, Wolof and Fula are related to Egyptian is probably due to the fact that when the Inyotefs took over Egypt the ancestors of these groups live in southern Egypt/Upper Kush. This would explain 1) the relationship between the Fula and Egyptian language of the 12th Dynasty 2) the introduction of the worship of Aman to the Egyptians a god worshipped by many Niger-Congo speakers, 3) the presence of Egyptian gods for selected nomes bearing West African ethnonyms and 4)the love of the basenji dog by the 12th Dynasty Egyptians.
Egypt was indeed a Pan-African civilization Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Egypt was indeed a Pan-African civilization [/QB]
No it wasn't. There is no record of contact or interaction between Egyptians and West Africans in the mdr ntr.
They were diligent record keepers.
And there were no trains, planes and phones.
Apart general mound building which is found all over the word in the long span of dynastic Egypt there is little similarity between Egyptian architecture and engineering and other African architecture. Mesopotamian and Mesoamerican architecture were more similar
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Egypt was indeed a Pan-African civilization
No it wasn't. There is no record of contact or interaction between Egyptians and West Africans in the mdr ntr.
They were diligent record keepers.
And there were no trains, planes and phones.
Apart general mound building which is found all over the word in the long span of dynastic Egypt there is little similarity between Egyptian architecture and engineering and other African architecture. Mesopotamian and Mesoamerican architecture were more similar [/QB]
quote: Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Kushites brought humped cattle to Egypt as gifts. Check out the humped cattle in the bottom panel.
Sudanese cattle
The Zebu probably originated in Africa and was taken to India by the Dravidian speaking people. This is supported by the name for cattle shared by Dravidian and African speakers.
The Dravidians originated in Africa. The archaeological evidence make it clear that they were related to the C-Group people according to B B Lal. Note the humped cattle at bottom of picture
In the western Saharan sites such as Erg In-Sakane region, and the Taoudenni basin of northern Mali, attest to cattle husbandry between 6000 and 5000 B.P. (McIntosh & McIntosh, 1979,1981,1986,1988). Cattle pastoral people began to settle Dar Tichitt and Karkarchinkat between 5000 and 3500 B.P. (Holl, 1989).
The term for cattle, cow in the various African and Dravidian languages show much correspondence. Below we will compare the term for cow from various African languages:
CATTLE/ COW
Egyptian ng, nag
Wolof nag
Fulani nag
Hausa nagge
Angas ning
Ankwe ning
Susu ninge
Nuer yang
Baguirmi m-ang, mang
Gbea m-angu, mangu
Sar(a) m-ang, mang
Serere nak
Mande nika
Burma nak
Tamil n_ku
Malayalam n_ku
Tulu n_ku
Jarawa i-nak
Kagoro nyak
Kaje nyak
Burak nyek
Kagoma nyak
Bobo nyanga
Kono-Vai nige
So.W. Mande ninke
Sembla nigi
Congo-Benue *i-nak
Duala nyaka
Mpongwe nyare
Fang nyar
Kwa nare
Azer(Azayr) na
Soninke na
Gourmantche nua, nue
Tamil _, _n
Malayalam _, _n
Konda _.v
Kannda _, _vu
Telugu _vu
Senufo nu
Ewe nyi
Niellim nya
Boua (Bwa) nya
Tarok ina
Iregwe nya
Dadiya nee
Amo na
Baya nday
Bobofing nya-nga
Gera ndiya
Koro indak
Malinke gu_ga, ko_go ‘zebu’
Songhay dyu_go
Swahili Ki-go_go
Kannada g_nde
Kolami k_nda, kanda
Gadaba k_nde
Gondi k_nda
The correspondence between Dravidian and African terms for cattle support the archaeological evidence for the early domestication of cattle in the Proto-Sahara.
Photo provided by Larry W. Harms
This view is supported by the similarity in the terms for cow/cattle by speakers of the Dravidian, Mande, Niger-Congo, Chadic, and Afro Asiatic Supersets.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^that is not proof of tribal interaction.
Trade, war and colonization between the dynastic Egyptian empire and place like Nubia, Libya and Syria are recorded in detail.
Not West Africa, not many other parts of Africa
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^^that is not proof of tribal interaction.
Trade, war and colonization between the dynastic Egyptian empire and place like Nubia, Libya and Syria are recorded in detail.
Not West Africa, not many other parts of Africa
That is why the linguistic evidence outlined above is so compelling.
The fact that Egyptian and West African languages are genetically related proves the contact.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally:
No, It appears that you have 'come' back here merely to spam this topic with your incoherent nonsense; and it's also apparent that you haven't read or followed this topic closely or perhaps you're displaying an inability to grasp what is being presented here...
Clyde Winters:
^^^^^Agreed If Red,White and Blue+Christian knew his history he would know that AA history goes back farther than slavery. He has been tricked into believing that AA history should begin and end with slavery.
Wally is writing about our ancient history so we can fully comprehend our history.
argyle104:
I agree with Clyde and Wally.
Red, White and Fruitcake is a Pure D moron.
His postings are unintelligible ramblings that make the inmates from the county mental ward seem like college valedictorians compared to him.
Wally,
I used to be where you are now. Did "we" partially derive from the Nile Valley? Yes. But, like a family with feuding members, there is division in Africa by tribe and religion.
BE CAREFUL.
Dr. Winters, I first encountered your name in the 1990's magazine called "Afrique Histoire" where you were an editor/contributor.
Argyle104,
No soy moron. Soy moreno que significa en Espanyol del color de los moros!
One can compare languages in many ways. I do believe there was a pan-African civilization and it may have included more than just the Nile Vally. As a Christian, the Bible says that there was once one world wide culture.
There are words in Far East Asian Languages that are similar and sound and meaning to African ones.
But, it is better to compare languages inside the same language family, such as Hausa and Tuareg to Ancient Egyptian.
The followers of Cheik Anta Diop like Dr. A.M. Lam have continued his method of comparing nouns.
Yet, languages are more than just nouns.
I read the works of Cheik Anta Diop. But, he and others skip over the most logical West African languages to compare to Ancient Egyptian which are Hausa and Tamacheq.
In reality, the Tuareg are at odds with the Bambara (Mande-Niger-Congo) speakers. We must study history with eyes open to current realities.
Everybody has agendas.
The Fulani have entered in the Sudan bringing their West Atlantic language with them.
The Ancient Nubians and Egyptians are dead. There are modern states along the Nile from Egypt to Somalia with long complicated histories and ethnic rivalries. They have agendas.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Black America is a patchwork quilt made from many different African tribes which were and often still are at odds. We were united under a common Judeo-Christian culture since the end of slavery. This periiod cannot be ignored. Who needs to ignore the history of Black America during slavery? What is their agenda?
Many AfroCentrics are Muslim or Anti-Christian. They are at odds with the average ordinary Black American anyway. That's why when they study African history, they concentrate on northern Africa which is mostly Muslim.
If they were familiar with the Bible, they wouldn't have to spend so much time on do we come from the Nile?
Genesis
10 A river flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and there it divided and became four rivers. 11 The name of the first is Pishon (Nile); it is the one which flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 and the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which flows around the whole land of Cush.
Genesis
6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put, and Canaan.
8 Cush fathered Nimrod; he was the first on earth to be a mighty man. [1] 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. Therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 The beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went into Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, and 12 Resen between Nineveh and Calah; that is the great city.
The First Man came from Africa and Kush is older than Egypt. Kushite Nimrod was the ruler of the Middle East.
All this in AfroAsiatic Hebrew.
This way of thinking allows me to approach African History without being at odds with my faith. My tribe is African American.
Not, Fulani, Wolof, Mandinka, Hausa or Tuareg. I can here Wolof on the radio here in NYC or on the street. I see women in Harlem with faces tattooed. I just met a Fulani guy just last month face to face. Did not like him.
quote: No. The coastal people went further and further inland to kidnap people. This meant that as African people fled the slave trade slave traders would go out in search of them.
This is way we see the slaving regions of Africa move southward, so slave traders could exploit new sources of slaves.
Clyde this is Hollyweird American history, comic book style.
These people were not naked savages living in small huts and small villages who were defenseless. I know that is what white Americans have sodomized into black Americans.
Why any of you continue to buy into this is fascinating.
Folks this is why they show you the same caricatures of a certain phenotype that is always naked. It works on the adle brained because most Americans are dead end entertainment flunkies, and most entertainment flunkies engage in eyeball morality.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Note that these Ntr totemic names, when used to designate a group, the name comes to mean some variation of "people", ie:
Akan (in Akan) = first people
Oromo (in Oromo) = people, resurrected human beings
Tutsi (in Kirundi) = people of wealth, first people
...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
---A necessary reprise---
It ALWAYS amazes me whenever I hear someone casually but accurately describe the process of how Africans from the fertile belt of the once lush Sahara, migrated to the Nile Valley, joined a cluster of peoples which lead to the formation of Kemet; then in the next breath declare that this process then became fixed! Therefore, all of the peoples who went there, would therefore be restricted to the confines of Kemet, forever, and ever, and ever...
It's nonsense, pure and simple. Backward migrations from Kemet wasn't an event where some 'Great Leader' stood before the masses of Kemet in front of the Great Gates and proclaimed "Let us leave this place to the foreigners and go West!"
The migrations of peoples is NOT an event; it is a process!
Migrations from the Sahara did not eliminate the populations that lived there, even after desertification became overwhelming - some folks left, many remained, some returned; like the ebb and flow of the tides...
And there was no Iron Curtain which hermetically sealed the population of Kemet from this natural human process...
The specious and bogus argument "Egyptians considered their native homeland sacred and did not want so much as to have their dead bodies buried in foreign lands" attempts to impart to the Ancient Egyptian nationality a trait exclusive to them, when in fact it merely describes a natural tendency of all human societies to regard their culture as home.
You can replace "Egyptian" with the name of any other nationality and the statement would be valid; but it doesn't contradict the urge or necessity of humans to migrate:
a) The Irish, who certainly love their homeland of Ireland, left their beloved home in a mass emigration to the United States during the potato famine...
b) The Chinese, who also love their homeland, have established settlements throughout the world...
c) The characteristics of any recent emigrant to a new environ is that the heart remains at home - best exemplified by retaining the 'mother' language - whereas the body, the reality, exists in this new environ.
This is a universal human trait; Ancient Egypt was no exception...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, unlike Clyde you didn't answer my question.
Was there a phenotype for slaves?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally, unlike Clyde you didn't answer my question.
Was there a phenotype for slaves?
...Ok...
Yes, the phenotype or the physical appearance for slaves was Human (Homo sapien sapien); some examples:
White phenotype slaves
Slavonic peoples (Slav is the etymology of "slave")
English Christians under Chattel slavery
Iberian slaves
Balkan slaves
Thracian slaves
Franks
Anglo-Saxons
Celts
Asian phenotypes of slaves
Koguryo Koreans
Paekche Koreans
Silla Koreans
Khmer mountain tribes (Khmer empire)
AmerIndians
Black phenotype slaves
Africans
...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Well Wally the reason I asked is because like many others on this forum, your postings seem to indicate that you engage in eyeball morality, sociology, and history.
Which is essentially trying to project a social and historical fantasy on groups of people depending on whether or not an individual likes their appearance or deems them as resembling west Europeans.
I'm glad you had the guts to answer and not run with his tail tucked between his legs like alTakuri.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: Of course not. American slave traders took slaves from anywhere they could find them-- including whites. This is why many American slaves came from South India and etc.
Folks notice his apparent contradiction.
quote: The West Africans did not flee their lands in great numbers because once they recognized what was going on they resisted the slave traders. This is why we see the slave trade moving from North to South. In the 13 Colonies for example most slaves were fro the Guinea Coast and Senegambia region. The slaves in the French colonies that made up the Lousiana purchase on the otherhand included large numbers of Bantu and Yoruba since it was from Nigeria and Angola that many French slaves originated.
Clyde which one is it? Are you confused?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...for argyle104...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde Winters wrote:
quote: Of course not. American slave traders took slaves from anywhere they could find them-- including whites. This is why many American slaves came from South India and etc.
Folks notice his apparent contradiction.
quote: The West Africans did not flee their lands in great numbers because once they recognized what was going on they resisted the slave traders. This is why we see the slave trade moving from North to South. In the 13 Colonies for example most slaves were fro the Guinea Coast and Senegambia region. The slaves in the French colonies that made up the Lousiana purchase on the otherhand included large numbers of Bantu and Yoruba since it was from Nigeria and Angola that many French slaves originated.
Clyde which one is it? Are you confused?
No. You need to read Black Cargoes. This book will help you understand the shifting nature of the slave trade.
It will also make it clear to you why Wally and I can see a direct relationship between Senegambian people who happened to have formerly lived in Egypt, ended up as slaves in the 13 colonies.
The white man has not blinded me, the points discussed in Black Cargoes provides evidence for the shifting trade in slaves during the Atlantic Slave trade. It gives the dates which allow you to get a great understanding of how Europeans moved from different parts of Africa once African people wised up to what they were doing.
.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
That's very interesting Clyde. I thought that you said that it was not wise to rely on whites to tell about your history. More confusion on your part?
It is also interesting to see the birthdates of the two authors as well as the time period they wrote the book. Surely they would not have brought their junk science into their work would they?
Clyde?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde, how many slave traders did it typically take to capture what you deem as helpless Africans?
5, 10, 20, 30, 40?
I thought that Africans lived in complex communities. Wouldn't they have been able to easily fend off such incursions?
Clyde, you're a "black" American negro aren't you?
It's easy to tell by how easily you passively project your thoughts of African inferiority courtesy of your white masters?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle you are aware of the mainstream account of the trans Atlantic slave trade, before you continue attacking people please do something like make a list of what you think are the main misconceptions about the slave trade and then correct them according to your view.
You should make some basic statements about how you think the slave trade operated. Nobody can understand your point of view where, it's coming from. Clyde gives outlines of how he thinks things were structured.
I suspect you do not have a cohesive point of view, do not have a foundation. All you have is a tactic for debating and because you don't state a point of view as to how the basic structure of the slave trade operated, this context, you just come off as an off the wall reactionary eccentric.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
argyle104,
Don't run from me by trying to engage Dr. Winters or alTakruri...
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde, how many slave traders did it typically take to capture what you deem as helpless Africans?
A slave trader was a trader who traded goods and mercandise with Africans for slaves; non-Africans did not as a rule capture "helpless" Africans; Africans did. As a matter of fact, there were some African kingdoms which forbade the sale of their African slaves to Europeans...
Stage 1: In Africa, European slave traders bought enslaved Africans from Africans in exchange for goods shipped from Europe.
Stage 2: Also called the 'Middle Passage'. This was the part of the triangle where enslaved Africans were forcibly shipped across the Atlantic Ocean to America. On reaching America, those Africans who had survived the journey were sold as slaves to work on plantations.
Stage 3: The third and final part of the triangular slave trade was the return voyage from America to Europe. Slave ships returned to Europe loaded with goods produced on plantations using slave labour. It could take slave ships up to one year to complete the entire triangular voyage.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
From "OSIRIS" & "LEGENDS OF THE EGYPTIAN GODS" & "HEIROGLYPHIC DICTIONARY" by E.A.WALLIS BUDGE (1857-1934), Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities in the British Museum...
Egyptian: An African language
quote: It is impossible for me to believe that Egyptian is a Semitic language fundamentally. There are a very large number of words that are not Semitic and were never invented by a Semitic people. These words were invented by one of the oldest African people of the Nile valley of whose written language we have any remains. Their home lay far to the south, and all that we know of Predynastic Egypt suggests that it was in the neighborhood of the Great Lakes. EW Budge, Hieroglyphic Dictionary, Dover, 1920
Osiris and Dancing
quote:Diodorus...describes the love of Osiris for music, and singing, and dancing...throws light on one of the most important features of the African religion and the character of the African. All Nilotic peoples are greatly addicted to dancing, and they never seem able to perform any ceremony without dancing; they dance at weddings and they dance at funerals, and dancing among many tribes constitutes an act of worship of the highest and most solemn importance...(the Ancient Egyptians) considered certain dances to be acts of worship. -- p.231
Osiris and Human Sacrifice
quote: Among the Africans of all periods the belief in immortality has always been implicit and absolute, and there can be no question that human sacrifices and "funeral murders"(1) are the logical outcome of this belief in immortality, and of the fear and honour in which they have always held the gods and the dead...In Ashanti, the king, as in ancient Egypt, slew prisoners with his own hand. -- p.225/229 (1) ritual murder
Origin of the Ht hieroglyph ("the god's house)
quote: The first of these (early temple images) is clearly an African hut, the sides of which are made of plaited reeds; the roof is made of some vegetable material which has been tied together, and consisted probably of a thick mat made of solatik similar to that which covered my tukul (hut) at Marawi (Abu Dom) and other places in the Sudan...the three curved lines in front represent the palings which are fixed before the tombs of great men all over the Sudan.
-- p.247-8
Osiris, Tattooing, & the Color White
quote: We next notice that the whole body of Osiris, from the neck to the soles of his feet, is covered with something which is commonly called "scale-work."...I believe that this "scale- work" is intended to represent the design with which the whole body of Osiris was thought to be tattued...That the body of Osiris is often painted white in vignettes does not affect the identification of the scale-work with tattuing, for many tribes smear themselves with white earth or clay. The white color may be symbolic of death for among the Nilotic Negroes the women wear a black tail fringed with white strings for a month as a sign of mourning, and others smear themselves with white earth. -- p.324
The Cult of Osiris
quote: (The cult of Osiris)...is as old as dynastic civilization in Egypt, and that it grew and developed, and spread with ever-increasing power until it became the dominating religious influence throughout the country. Osiris was the symbol of the African conception of resurrection and immortality, and from first to last his worship was characterized by customs, and rites, and ceremonies which was purely African. -- p.347
Egyptian Monotheism
quote: Champollion le Jeune believed "the Egyptian religion to be a pure monotheism, which manifested itself externally by a symbolic polytheism." -- p.358
Ancestor Worship
quote: Up to the time when the cult of Osiris spread throughout Egypt, the Egyptians, I believe, worshiped their ancestors, according to the custom of the African in most parts of the Sudan, then and now. The following examples will show how widespread is the cult of ancestors in the Sudan, and will illustrate the similarity between the figures of ancestral gods and the figure of Osiris. The Barotse worship chiefly the souls of their ancestors..."the essence of true Negro religion is ancestor-worship, a belief in the 'ghosts of the departed'." -- p.290
The Resurrection
quote: Osiris suffered death because he was righteous, and because he had done good to all men. Osiris, being the son of a god, knew well the wickedness which was in Set, and the hatred which the personification of evil and his fiends bore to him, yet he did not seek to evade his murderous attack, but willingly met his death...the resurrection of Osiris is the great and distinguishing feature of the Egyptian religion, for Osiris was the first fruits of the dead, and every worshiper of Osiris based his hope of resurrection and immortality upon the fundamental fact of the resurrection of Osiris. --Osiris, EW Budge, p.312-3
Africa Adorned
quote: The tombs of Egypt have yielded untold thousands of beads of all kinds, which prove that the love of the Egyptians for beads, shells, teeth of animals and men, pendants, etc., which could be worn as necklaces, was as great as is that of modern nations of Africa. --Osiris, EW Budge, p.323
The Creation of Mankind
quote: (GOD)..."Now after these things I gathered together my members, and I wept (rimei) over them, and men and women (romeou) sprang into being from the tears (rimety) which came forth from my eye." --Legends of the Egyptian Gods, p.5 rome (Sahaidic Coptic) = lome in Bantu & Bohairic Coptic
Egyptian Voodoo & Zar
quote: It was well known in Egypt and the Sudan at a very early period that if a magician obtained some portion of a person's body, e.g., a hair, a paring of a nail, a fragment of skin, or a portion of some efflux from the body, spells could be used upon them which would have the effect of causing grievous harm to that person. --Legends of the Egyptian Gods, EW Budge, p.xxxiv
quote: (see:The Zar: Women's Theatre in the Southern Sudan,"Women's Medicine: Zar Cult in Africa and Beyond, ed. by Ioan Lewis, Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1991)
"Zar, in the sense of possession, is usually, though not exclusively, inherited. It is also contagious and may strike at any time. Diriye Abdullahi, a native of Somalia, says that the zar is basically a dance of spirits, or a religious dance - kind of leftover from the old African deities, a variant of what we describe in the west as "voodoo". The old African deities were headed by two figures; Azuzar (the male, assoc. with Osiris) and Ausitu (the female, known in the west as Isis). Ausitu (or Aysitu in Somalia) is still celebrated and given offerings by pregnant women so that she will provide them with a safe birth. He describes it as a ritual dance which is mostly observed by women, especially older women. This corresponds to the practice of older African religions, in which older women were the priestesses. He maintains that younger women, especially unmarried women, are not generally thought to be "worthy of a visit by the spirit of Zar, who chooses domicile or residence in the person who is his choice." Traditionally, women are carriers of the Zar tradition. A Zar is a spirit. Some Ethiopians and Yemenis have their own Zar, like a guide of guardian angel. The dance ritual, Zar, like other traditional healing ceremonies, as for instance practiced by the !Kung of Southern Africa, is done to regain a sense of balance and harmony in one's life and in tandem with the community. The word Zar is thought by some to be a corruption of Jar which in the Cushitic language of the Agaw people is the word for Waaq the sky god. The Rastafarians call god Jah. And Yah is a very old Ancient Egyptian word for God.
from my own experiences...
As an African American, born in (Voodoo) Louisiana...
One of the first things you learn as a Black youngster is that when you go to church on Sunday, DO NOT SIT NEXT TO A WOMAN, especially a middle-aged one. When this "zar spirit" hits one of these women (it usually affects several women almost simultaneously), they begin to gesticulate and shout out loud. They then, usually, make their way to the church's aisle where they begin to dance themselves into a trance like frenzy, eventually feinting or becoming rigid, where they have to be fanned and literally carried out of the auditorium. And your biggest fear is that this spirit might also hit you! ...we call this the Holy Ghost in (Voodoo) Louisiana. The only thing missing is some formalized ritual, which obviously isn't necessary.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Originally posted by Wally:
argyle104,
Don't run from me by trying to engage Dr. Winters or alTakruri...
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde, how many slave traders did it typically take to capture what you deem as helpless Africans?
A slave trader was a trader who traded goods and merchandise with Africans for slaves; non-Africans did not as a rule capture "helpless" Africans; Africans did. As a matter of fact, there were some African kingdoms which forbade the sale of their African slaves to Europeans...
Stage 1: In Africa, European slave traders bought enslaved Africans from Africans in exchange for goods shipped from Europe.
Stage 2: Also called the 'Middle Passage'. This was the part of the triangle where enslaved Africans were forcibly shipped across the Atlantic Ocean to America. On reaching America, those Africans who had survived the journey were sold as slaves to work on plantations.
Stage 3: The third and final part of the triangular slave trade was the return voyage from America to Europe. Slave ships returned to Europe loaded with goods produced on plantations using slave labour. It could take slave ships up to one year to complete the entire triangular voyage.
African slaves were a commodity, just like cocoa, ivory, gold, bauxite, which Africans sold to the Europeans, the Arabs...
Like all commodities, it was necessary and efficient to transport these commodities from the interior to coastal ports for exportation. The Europeans, for example, did not just saunter in and cherry pick these commodities at will nor were they able to do so, if so inclined...
The East African ports in Mozambique were a source of African slaves not only from Kenya but from the entire east and central African territory...
<><><>
The Diola; an example
The Diola form 9% of the population of Senegal. Oral sources (Griots) contend that the Diola originated in Egypt and traveled across North Africa in c1000 B.C., settling in the Niger wetlands. Drought and wars later forced them south. As a minority group, and fair game for capture, they fled to the marshes and swamps of the Casamance during the slave trade era, thus becoming the earliest settlers south of the Gambia River.
Diola women harvesting rice
...and on to America...
The ethnic groups that suffered the most directly from the Atlantic slave trade were those living along the coastal areas of the river Gambia and the river Cassamance, and these are the Manjagos, the Balantas, the Papels and the Diolas...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
"African Americans traveling in Egypt are very often mistaken for native Egyptians, and are usually referred to as Masri or Egyptians."
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
---The Igbo - a part of the African American ancestral tree...
The oral history of the Igbos also traces their origins to Ancient Egypt.
The Igbo people have been in Africa for thousands of years. They seemed to have settled in their current spots a few thousand years ago. There is abundant evidence that shows that the Igbo people originated from Kemet or the environs of Kemet - The Nile Valley...
Gbu (gboo)- a totemic Ntr
some other theories on the etymology of 'Igbo'...
quote:
There are several theories regarding the etymology of the word Igbo. It is presumed that it has Sudanic origin, derived from the verb gboo.
quote:
"Igbo" is commonly presumed to mean "the people." The root -bo is judged to be of Sudanic origin; some scholars think that the word is derived from the verb gboo and therefore has connotations of "to protect," "to shelter," or "to prevent"—hence the notion of a protected people or a community of peace.
My contention is that the names of African emigrants from the Nile Valley Civilizations are derived from their ancient totemic gods and of which they became conceptualized into 'the people':
Just like many ancient kingdoms that are now scattered in the Southern part of the Sahara, the Onicha history is rooted in Ancient Egypt. From linguistics, cultural, cosmological, anthropological, pictorial, traditional and spiritual analyses and comparisons, Onicha people and their Yoruba and Edo relatives are from Ancient Egypt, known then to our ancestors as Kemet." --Ugonabo Onwa Amene Esq., Attorney at the International Court of Trade.
"By archeological account, in around 2345BC in Ancient Egypt, "M-Eru-ka (or Eru/Eri)" became a high priest to Pharaoh Teti. Because of this, the Egyptian origin of the Igbo people as many have insisted is also backed by linguistic evidences proving many Ancient Egyptian words survive in the Igbo language today and has led researchers to focus in this area. A small list of Ancient Egyptian words which survive in the Igbo language are as follows:
EGYPTIAN ◄► IGBO (Onitsha and Uburu dialects used)
Kaka(God) ◄► Ka (greater, superior) Khu (to kill, death) ◄► Nwu/Gbu (die/to kill) Em (smell) ◄► Imi/Emi (nose, associated with smell) Bi (to become) ◄► Bu (to become) un (living being) ◄► Ndu (life) Feh (to go away) ◄► Feh (to fly away) Budo (dwelling place) ◄► Obodo/ubudo (country, dwelling place) Dudu (black image of Osiris) ◄► Mmadu (person) Un (living person) ◄► Ulo/Uno (living area, house) Beka (pray/confess) ◄► Biko/Beko (to plead, please) Aru (mouth) ◄► Onu (mouth) & kooh/Kwue (to speak) Dor (settlement) ◄► Dor-Nor (sit down, settle) Ra -Shu (light after darkness) ◄► La -Shu (sleep) Aru (rise) ◄► Anu/Kulie (up, rise) Wu (rise) ◄► KWu-ni/Kunie (rise) In- n (negation) nh-n (negation) Ma (to know) ◄► Ma, Ma-li (to know) Se (to create) ◄► Ke (to create) & Se (to draw) Hoo (rejoice) ◄► Goo, ta-Goo (dance, rejoice) Omijener (deep water) ◄► Ime-me (deep inside) Nen (the primeval water mother) ◄► Nem (mother) Ro (talk) ◄► Kwo (to talk) Penka (divide) Panje (break it) Ala (Land of) ◄► Ala (Land of, ground, boundary) Amu (children) ◄► Umu (children) Ani (ground land below) ◄► Ani (ground land below) Ka (higher) ◄► Ka (greater, higher, stronger, above) Pa (open) ◄► Meghee (open) Isi (leader) ◄► Isi (leader, head (body part), female name as in igbo: "Isioma") Oni (AE City) ◄► Oni-tsha (Igbo City) Ikhenaten (name of a Pharaoh) ◄► Ikh-em (Igbo name for a male representing high power) Au-nu (Crocodile) ◄► Anu/Anu-Ma-nu (animal, beast) Miri (water) ◄► Miri (water) Nahasu (other Blacks) ◄► Ahasi/Ani-hasi (Evening, night) Ak (man) ◄► Ok-a (man) Ehn/Hen (yes, nod head) ◄► Eh (yes, nod head) Paa/Faa (fly) ◄► Feeh/Faa (fly) Utcha (dawn) ◄► Uchi-chi/Utchi-chi(night) MM (among) ◄► Imme (inside, among) W (they) ◄► Uwe (they, them)" Iob (heart) ◄► obi (heart) okre (jkr) ◄► ọ́kụ̀rụ̀ (okra)
--Igbo Community Association of Nigeria
"Fact: Some of the people among the many principalities of Urhobo ethnic group nowadays have a mixture of Ibo people and other groups of Nigerians. For instance; my cultural group of Uvwie, an Urhobo sub-cultural group in our migration journey from Egypt, have settled in Orugbo, in Ondo, settled in Ife, settled in Erohwa, settled in Aboh, settled in Uvwie ro'rho, settled in Evwereni, settled in Patani, settled in Ughelli until we pitched tent in Ekpan, Effurun and their other sister towns. (The Urhobo People, Onigu Otite, 1982). In the process of these movements, we undeniably intermarried with the people we met on the way. Same can be apparently said of the Itsekiri, the Benin , the Ishan, the Ijaw, any other groups in Nigeria in their migrations from Egypt ." --Wilson Ometan, URHOBO-WORLD.ORG
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Igbo art - people
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
And of course, in direct limb proportion comparisons, the Egyptians cluster closer to African Americans than to whites.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Always, and often unaware, people carry their history with them...
From Africa to America
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Mdu Ntr/English
Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
African Americans have nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptians. To say they have something do with Ancient Egypt simply because their ancestors come from the same continent the Ancient Egyptians come from, is like saying the Chinese are the same as the Arabs or Europeans in Eurasia.
Africa doesn't equal black in the same sense Eurasia doesn't equal white. The Ancient Egyptians were very advanced. If there was ever such a migration then what caused such advanced knowledge to flounder in West and Central Africa? Knowledge clearly flowed from the North to Nubia and failed to thrive anywhere else in Africa. Now it is wrong to say there was no civilization or culture in Sub Sahara but its clear that advanced ancient cultures are few and far between South or West of Axum.
The tomb images of the Ancient Egyptians speak for themselves for they are consistent with physical types found among Modern Egyptians. It's clear that there is no historical evidence for any Egyptian migration across the continent. This "Egyptian migration to other parts of Africa" is just another theory created by Afrocentrists to compensate for the fact that their ancestors were primitive isolated peoples who weren't introduced to anything remotely flashy or advanced before someone brought them to it.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Mdu Ntr/English
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
In Ancient Egypt as in African-America "Black is beautiful"...
Ancient Egyptian colors and their symbolism
Black : Kem = holy, sacred, good, rebirth, human life, resurrection, ripe
Red : Desher = evil, bad luck, devil, evil person, blood, fire, not holy, not ripe
Blue : Kesbedj = earth's life, rebirth, healing, transformation
White : Hedj = the color silver, bright, dawning, clean, purity, new beginning (ghost/spirit)
Ubakh/Ubash = the color white, (same as above)
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Red : Desher = evil, bad luck, devil, evil person, blood, fire, not holy, not ripe
Black : Kem = holy, sacred, good, rebirth, human life, resurrection, ripe
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Brothers sailing on their Nile; no wigs, no Aamu (Arabs), no White folks (Desheru/Dereshu) or 'European farmers'...just brothers...
while their women await their arrival in port...
and this is the 'port master'.. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Red : Desher = evil, bad luck, devil, evil person, blood, fire, not holy, not ripe
Black : Kem = holy, sacred, good, rebirth, human life, resurrection, ripe
...No, idiot, the description of colors was not restricted to an art class; what we're discussing here is the symbolism of colors used in the everyday human life of people, in this case the Ancient Egyptians.
Km.t Niu.t - the Black world; a collection of African peoples whose complexions ranged from "high yellow" to red to "jet black" (kem.t khet); a Black person grasps this concept automatically...
*Dereshu - When encountering non-Blacks for the first time on a grand scale, the appellation used to describe light-skinned Blacks (sa deresh ) was conveniently transposed to identify all non-Black peoples...
*Deresh and NOT Desher is the accurate translation for "red" in Mdu Ntr (um.dah.oo n.chair) Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Km.t Niu.t
▼
Malcolm X "Detroit Red" ---------- Redd Foxx "Chicago Red" ------------------- Yoruba beauty ------------- Fulani ----------------------------- Wolof kids
Dereshu
▼
Greek ------------------------------------ Italian ----------------------------------- Iranian Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
In Ancient Egypt as in African-America "Black is beautiful"...
Ancient Egyptian colors and their symbolism
Black : Kem = holy, sacred, good, rebirth, human life, resurrection, ripe
Red : Desher = evil, bad luck, devil, evil person, blood, fire, not holy, not ripe
Blue : Kesbedj = earth's life, rebirth, healing, transformation
White : Hedj = the color silver, bright, dawning, clean, purity, new beginning (ghost/spirit)
Ubakh/Ubash = the color white, (same as above)
₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪
a) Kem, Kemu : "Black" ; synonym for - to speak correctly, to eat correctly, to act correctly...
b) 3rd glyph down (Kemu/Kamu) : "people who behave correctly" or "those who behave as Blacks"...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...now, what does photos, without clarification, of a White guy, a Black guy, another White guy, another Black guy, a White girl, and a Hindu-Indian girl have to do with this topic: African Americans and Ancient Egyptians...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
In Ancient Egypt as in African-America "Black is beautiful"...
Ancient Egyptian colors and their symbolism
Black : Kem = holy, sacred, good, rebirth, human life, resurrection, ripe
Red : Desher = evil, bad luck, devil, evil person, blood, fire, not holy, not ripe
Blue : Kesbedj = earth's life, rebirth, healing, transformation
White : Hedj = the color silver, bright, dawning, clean, purity, new beginning (ghost/spirit)
Ubakh/Ubash = the color white, (same as above)
₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪ ₪
a) Kem, Kemu : "Black" ; synonym for - to speak correctly, to eat correctly, to act correctly...
b) 3rd glyph down (Kemu/Kamu) : "people who behave correctly" or "those who behave as Blacks"...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...now, what does photos, without clarification, of a White guy, a Black guy, another White guy, another Black guy, a White girl, and a Hindu-Indian girl have to do with this topic: African Americans and Ancient Egyptians...
those terms "black guy" "white guy" are meaningless and have nothing to do with the Egyptians
that's something you came up with
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
the dishonest thing about this later portion of the thread is that a list of color description is given then a set of photos of people as if people are the only thing that has color.
and the Egyptians did not have a list of colors that corresponded to a list of people. That's a European concept
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ethiopian subjectivism; one of many pan-African examples of how Africans differentiate each other, dating back to perhaps before construction of the pyramids...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Wally you hate white people, that's what Egyptology means to you
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Wally you hate white people, that's what Egyptology means to you
Thank you for exposing yourself and who you really are; and also for putting me on the same level of our President by offering up the same demented nonsense like Glenn Beck's "criticism" of Pres. Obama...
quote:Glenn Beck exclaimed that Obama has "over and over again" exposed himself as "a guy who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture. I don't know what it is..."
One would have to be seriously demented in order to believe Beck's B.S., but that's the crowd he's playing to - racists (which is another synonym for dementia).
But this is a forum about African Americans and Ancient Egyptians, and not about me; so if you want to, please start a new topic and call it "Wally is a racist" so I can politely 'clean your plow.'
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
Professor Wally, are you a product of the 60s Berkeley Psychedelic scene?
Also, since most of AE and Ta Seti territory was 'dsrt' does this explain why they painted their non-divine sculptures red?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Wally you hate white people, that's what Egyptology means to you
Thank you for exposing yourself and who you really are; and also for putting me on the same level of our President by offering up the same demented nonsense like Glenn Beck's "criticism" of Pres. Obama...
quote:Glenn Beck exclaimed that Obama has "over and over again" exposed himself as "a guy who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture. I don't know what it is..."
One would have to be seriously demented in order to believe Beck's B.S., but that's the crowd he's playing to - racists (which is another synonym for dementia).
But this is a forum about African Americans and Ancient Egyptians, and not about me; so if you want to, please start a new topic and call it "Wally is a racist" so I can politely 'clean your plow.'
I'm not Glen Beck and you're not my husband.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Phishing Lioness?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Excuse the O.T Wally and company Amharic Ferengi= foreigner Amharic Negus = King Sommabitch that the same names they used for Star-Trek New generation for these guys below.. The Ferengi And their leader whose title is the Negus Sorry to interrupt..continue.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
'Red' - in Africa and African American
The appellation 'red' in African American is used to describe light-skinned Blacks who have reddish skin and hair color; the classic examples are “Chicago Red” which referred to Redd Foxx and “Detroit Red” which was Malcolm X.
This is a natural inheritance from Africa; in general Red is a symbol of mourning, death, evil, blood, the devil...but it can also be used to objectively describe someone like the Himba people of Namibia who are called the Red People because they use a hematite mixture to paint their skins red.
It is also an African appellation used to describe “White people”
In the Mtau Ntr it comes in this form:
Tamhu – a non-pejorative which merely means “Red people”; this word is derived from “Tamh” which means “hematite; reddish iron ore; ochre or pale yellow to red.”
Tamhu
Budge's "Libyans" (a tribe or people) - notice he identifies "Temhi.t" a "libyan" goddess as a goddess of the "Red Land" instead...
Dereshou – a pejorative which also means “Red people” but also carries with itself the implication of evil, bad, devil...this is used as a counterpoise to Kememou or “Black people” - good, proper, holy...
Addendum: a similar appellation, without any use of color, is the one used for “Asiatics”:
Aamu - “Asiatics”; however this word is derived from Aamu, which means “peasant (fellaheen), coarse, crude, clumsy...”
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
I don't understand why this thread is still ongoing. The only thing African Americans have in common with Egyptians other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, this boy has once exposed his racial beliefs. Even his most staunchest idiot defenders cannot ignore what I've been saying all along.
This boy believes in a racial hierarchy, not only outside of Africa but inside it as well.
Primary evidence is just how upset he gets whenever he believes that someone is truthfully states that AAs have ancestry from anywhere in Africa outside of his fictional "west" Africa.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I don't understand why this thread is still ongoing. The only thing African Americans have in common with Egyptians other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa.
...which is to say in effect that African Americans are not descendants of ANY African peoples!
This is just how silly you sound and what you're saying, IE:
The only thing African Americans have in common with Fulani other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa.
The only thing African Americans have in common with Wolof other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa
The only thing African Americans have in common with Akan other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa
The only thing African Americans have in common with Yoruba other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa
...and on, and on...
--and this thread is ongoing simply because it is constantly being refined and updated with more factual evidence; don't refute the topic, refute the EVIDENCE...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti I hope that you will answer my questions like most people who are scholarly and intellectual.
If you avoid answering my question, it will prove what I have been saying all along. That you are a racist ideolog who argues via emotion and not logic, analysis, facts, and evidence.
Djehuti the ball is in your court.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
All Europeans are Irish
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks watch the intellectual thrashing I am about to administer.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
we're waiting............
-----------
------------------
woooooooooaaaaaaaah hooooooooooooooooo hohohohohohohohohoimretarded
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Kindergarteners, too mentally immature to engage in adult conversation...
"Folks watch the intellectual thrashing I am about to administer. Don't run like you normally do... "
"All Europeans are Irish"
"Your pink penile blisters must be flaring up again. Ointment? woooooooooaaaaaaaah hooooooooooooooooo hohohohohohohohoho "
"Folks its obvious this lioness creature enjoys playing with himself. ha ha ha heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! "
"we're waiting............ ----------- ------------------ woooooooooaaaaaaaah hooooooooooooooooo hohohohohohohohohoimretarded "
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks what's wrong with the lioness? He seems to have blown a gasket. Is he hard up? Why did he post that picture of that woman? People, what is wrong with his mind?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
People notice how the lioness is making up quotes and trying to attribute them to me. What a loon.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People notice how the lioness is making up quotes and trying to attribute them to me. What a loon.
your post editing will be our little secret, I won't say anything
(realized you couldn't "intellectually thrash" Djehuti, lol)
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
[/QB]
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
quote: The only thing African Americans have in common with Egyptians other than being black are a few cultural elements from Africa.
Djehuti since "You" brought it up. Tell everyone what people African Americans have something in common with.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks as you can tell from throughout this thread Wally believes in pseudoscience and pseudohistory with regards to Africans. This is a common occurence with entertainment flunkies.
Let's see if he will answer a pretty straight forward question.
Wally, do you believe that other groups of people were brought to the Americas as slaves? Let's say for example Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti.
Do you believe those people were brought over?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, let me explain something to you.
Media is formulaic. And it is formulaic for a reason. Those drawn images of slaves are caricatures that don't exist in the real world. The naked African caricature who always has the same look is a fictional creation meant to keep those white women who are entertainment flunkies and vanity obsessed from feeling bad.
That one demographic is the reason why AA history is to be distorted.
Did you know that AAs who have certain features are edited from civil rights videos and pictures? They also do the same with photographs of slaves by simply not showing them.
Its because certain types of white women will become emotionally distraught if an African or AA whose looks they like or wish they had, is a victim of racism. Therefore to keep that demographic from being turned off and not viewing, listening, or reading they use a narrowed down segment of Africans or AAs.
This is an example of how sick eyeball morality is with a particular cosmetically challenged demographic.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
What is also amusing is that the naked African myth is so obviously false, considering the bright eyecatching colors that the Africans where the slaves "supposedly" came from still wear till this day.
Also this is even more proof exposing the propaganda as a lie.
The guy from a 1,000 years ago doesn't look to be naked.
Wally, Clyde how many lies do they have to tell you before your self-respect kicks in and you start to think for yourselves?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Again people, to the entertainment flunky crowd it is more palatable to see slaves as naked. Since naked in their minds equals primitive, and primitive means less guilt or anguish on their pitiful minds concerning slavery.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks as you can see, when Djehuti is asked simple questions or requested to provide facts and evidence. He runs like a gerbal on a treadmill.
Djehuti does what most dullards do because they lack intellect. Which is make up statements based on ideology or racial mythology, because he operates more on emotional opinion than intelligence.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, why are you avoiding the question I asked? For your convenience it is below.
Wally, do you believe that other groups of people were brought to the Americas as slaves? Let's say for example Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti.
Do you believe those people were brought over?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally, why are you avoiding the question I asked? For your convenience it is below.
Wally, do you believe that other groups of people were brought to the Americas as slaves? Let's say for example Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti.
Do you believe those people were brought over?
...please, please...this topic isn't predicated on a religious ideology nor a personal opinion;"do you believe" is an insignificant question when one is presenting significant facts.
My opening post for this topic!
quote:African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
African slaves were commodities held and sold by Africans, and like all resources, were obtained as far east as the Swahili coast, including Madagascar (Malagasy)...
These ethnic groups, once in America, became merged into a SINGLE ethnicity: African-American.
This process continues even to this day: Harry Belafonte (from Jamaican/Martinican ); Sidney Poitier (from Bahama); Colin Powell (from Jamaicans); "Good Times" Esther Rolle (from Bahamians); Rihanna (from Barbados); Iman (from Somali); Hakeem Olujawon (from Nigeria)...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Wally be careful of taking argyle seriously, I traced his computer to a psychiatric ward.
argyle, you need to start your own thread already, I told Wally you're looney tunes as a front so you can lay out the true knowledge on us
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Wally be careful of taking argyle seriously, I traced his computer to a psychiatric ward.
argyle, you need to start your own thread already, I told Wally you're looney tunes as a front so you can lay out the true knowledge on us
You're a little late and not carefully following the 'discussion' here...
I posted 09 December, 2009 (a year ago.) on this topic thread, a response to argyle104...
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Are north Africans from Egypt?
Are southern Africans from Egypt?
Are east Africans from Egypt?
Why or why not?
Oh, sublimely Idiotic one, if I address your inane questions, do you promise to go away?
a) I can only assume that you are referring to Ancient Egypt - Keme.t niut
b) Which north, southern, east African groups or individuals are you referring to? Without this clarification, your questions are empty, child-like...
c) Read this post from its beginning, which postulates that the Wolof, The Lebu, The Fulani, The Yoruba, The Soninke, The Akan are emigrants from Ancient Egypt and have provided documentation to substantiate this claim; that African Americans are the descendants of all of these groups would also indicate a direct lineal descent from this ancient Nilotic Civilization - Keme.t niut...
You may go now...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: ...please, please...this topic isn't predicated on a religious ideology nor a personal opinion;"do you believe" is an insignificant question when one is presenting significant facts.
Don't dodge the question by playing on words Wally. I'll even rephrase the question to remove any doubt of what I am asking you.
Wally, were Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti brought to the Americas as slaves?
Its a simple question Wally.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, you say that some African Americans go to Egypt and are assumed to be native Egyptians or that some AAs look like native Egyptians. How is that possible?
Because according to what you wrote previously the only Africans who came to the Americas as slaves were those from so called "west" Africa and the Swahili coast. They did not come from Egypt, according to you.
Those people do not look like indigenous Egyptians Wally. Therefore you need to explain how it is possible that AAs look like indigenous egyptians. Tell us Wally.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt. It is believed that the Bamiléké went down the Nile, crossed many rivers and cliffs using extraordinary mystical means. They crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlements. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century).
---
*Baladi = local, indigenous, native; refers to the “real Egyptian”, or “Masri Asil”, as opposed to the western occupiers and westernized Egyptians, known as “Afrang”.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
"Bamileke belongs to the Mbam-Nkam group of Graffi languages, whose attachment to the Bantu division is still disputed. While some consider it a Bantu or semi-Bantu language, others prefer to include Bamileke in the Niger-Congo group. Bamileke is not a unique language. It seems that Bamileke Medumba stems from ancient Egyptian and is the root language for many other Bamileke variants." http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212,469f2d172,3f7d4d7134,0.html
"The Bamileke are part of the Bantu peoples and occupy western regions of Cameroon. Tribal history gives the Bamileke (an) Egyptian origin, migration from the banks of the Nile in the 9th century..." http://www.primitivearts.co.uk/page8.html Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally they are only two simple questions. Apparently they frighten you immensely. Are you afraid that if you answer you will reveal your belief in eurocentric pseudoscience and its affiliate pseudohistory?
Wally, were Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti brought to the Americas as slaves?
and
How is it possible that African Americans look like indigenous Egyptians if as you allude to in your postings Egyptians were not brought as slaves to the new world? Were Egyptians brought as slaves to the new world Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally people who base their views on intellect/scholarship and not entertainment aimed at emotionally adled brained dullards, can defend their statements instead of running for cover when they are challenged.
Wally? Are you an intelligent man?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally they are only two simple questions. Apparently they frighten you immensely. Are you afraid that if you answer you will reveal your belief in eurocentric pseudoscience and its affiliate pseudohistory?
Wally, were Africans from the horn such as Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Djibouti brought to the Americas as slaves?
and
How is it possible that African Americans look like indigenous Egyptians if as you allude to in your postings Egyptians were not brought as slaves to the new world? Were Egyptians brought as slaves to the new world Wally?
The East African slave trade
The Indian Ocean stretches between the east coast of Africa and the west coast of India. It was once part of the route for a slave trade known as the ‘Oriental’ or eastern slave trade. From the 7th century enslaved Africans were taken to the Middle East, North Africa and India. This eastern slave trade was different to the slave trade across the Atlantic Ocean (the transatlantic slave trade ) from Africa to the Americas and the Caribbean.
In the transatlantic slave trade the demand was for labourers to work on plantations and in mines, and mostly men were captured to supply the demand. In the eastern trade, the demand was for domestic servants, and mostly women were captured to supply the trade.
The end of the Eastern slave trade began when the British ended slavery in India in 1843. Throughout much of the area, though, slavery remained legal until a country came under European rule (for example Egypt in 1882) or until the country tried to join the League of Nations after the 1st World War (for example, Saudi Arabia).
Slaves taken to the Middle East and North Africa were not just from Africa. Until about 1500, slaves were also bought from northern Europe, but as this supply route dried up the numbers bought from Africa increased. In the eastern slave trade enslaved Africans were taken from the east coast of Africa (the modern countries of Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique and the island of Madagascar). They also came from the Savannah area (which includes countries such as Mali, Niger, Chad and Sudan) and the Horn of Africa (which covers Djibouti, Somalia and Ethiopia). Slaves were sold to merchants from North Africa and the Middle East. The women slaves in this trade often married their masters, or had children by them and the children were often freed by their fathers. Over time, the enslaved Africans tended to become part of the local population. In the transatlantic slave trade to the Americas, enslaved African women were often involved with their white masters, but it was usually an unequal relationship and the children were never free citizens. The mixed race children in the Americas were still slaves. The demand for women slaves in the eastern slave trade meant that the many men who were captured at the same time as the women remained as slaves in Africa. There were many plantations in, for example, Kenya (east Africa), where the enslaved men worked growing food and spices on plantations.
There are no records for the number of enslaved Africans sold before the 17th century from the Savannah area of Africa (which includes countries such as Mali, Niger, Chad and Sudan) and the Horn of Africa (which covers Djibouti, Somalia and Ethiopia).
It is estimated that in the 17th century, about 10,000 slaves per year were sold to North Africa and the Middle East.
There was a large domestic slave population in this area and slavery was an accepted form of labour amongst the rulers of the different kingdoms. Small numbers of enslaved Africans were sold from the east coast to other areas including the Persian Gulf and India for hundreds of years. (The Persian Gulf is today the area including Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates). The numbers of enslaved Africans sold to these areas increased in the late 18th century. This was because French merchants bought slaves from East Africa for the growing sugar plantations on the French owned islands in the Indian Ocean. Brazilian merchants also began buying slaves from the same area for the sugar plantations in Brazil, after 1800. Then, trade to the Persian Gulf and India increased rapidly. By the early 19th century about 30,000 people were being sold into slavery from this eastern area of Africa. They were being bought and sold through the main centre of the trade on the island of Zanzibar (off the east coast of Africa, of what is now the country of Tanzania).
It has been estimated that over the twelve centuries from 750 to the 20th century (slavery continued in this area well into the 20th century, and beyond) almost 12,000,000 enslaved Africans were traded to the Middle East, North Africa and India.
The eastern slave trade , over a much longer period, took from Africa about the same numbers of people as the transatlantic slave trade took in 300 years.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, I'm not even going to read the troll who has pink penile blister's cut and paste routine. He is having frustration because I routinely demolish a race myth that he so needs to be widely believed because it helps in his pathetic propaganda war against AAs.
The boy obviously has no life and needs to go apply ointment to his blisters.
The loon obviously wants attention. He ain't getting mine.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt. It is believed that the Bamiléké went down the Nile, crossed many rivers and cliffs using extraordinary mystical means. They crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlements. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century).
--- "Bamiléké belongs to the Mbam-Nkam group of Graffi languages, whose attachment to the Bantu division is still disputed. While some consider it a Bantu or semi-Bantu language, others prefer to include Bamiléké in the Niger-Congo group. Bamiléké is not a unique language. It seems that Bamiléké Medumba stems from ancient Egyptian and is the root language for many other Bamiléké variants." http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212,469f2d172,3f7d4d7134,0.html
"The Bamiléké are part of the Bantu peoples and occupy western regions of Cameroon. Tribal history gives the Bamiléké (an) Egyptian origin, migration from the banks of the Nile in the 9th century..." http://www.primitivearts.co.uk/page8.html
*Baladi = local, indigenous, native; refers to the “real Egyptian”, or “Masri Asil”, as opposed to the western occupiers and westernized Egyptians, known as “Afrang”.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...from the banks of the Nile, to Cameroun, to America...
The Bamileke are part of the Bantu people. Historically, the Bamun and the Bamileke were united. The founder of this group (Nchare) was the younger brother of the founder of Bafoussam. The Bamileke are a group of the Baladis, the real native people of Egypt. All peoples come from Egypt, but the fact that the Bamileke are the last people to leave the banks of the Nile (9th century) gives them an unfathomable strength in every respect, as well as an incredible conservation of the civilization of their Egypt-based ancestors (D. Toukam, 2008 & 2010)
Chris Tucker with Ice Cube Chris Tucker mt-DNA traces ancestry to the Bamileke his y-DNA traces ancestry to the Mbundu of Angola
He is 'diagnosed' as:
83% Black African
10% AmerIndian
07% European
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, I'm not even going to read the troll who has pink penile blister's cut and paste routine. He is having frustration because I routinely demolish a race myth that he so needs to be widely believed because it helps in his pathetic propaganda war against AAs.
The boy obviously has no life and needs to go apply ointment to his blisters.
The loon obviously wants attention. He ain't getting mine.
If you were to read it it would be clear to you the different "market" and different structures between the Trans Atlantic Salve Trade and the East African slave trade which supplied the Middle East and North Africa.
You just mix these up all the time.
Wally's trying to make connections between African Americans and the Egyptians and yet you battle him also.
you can't win with argyle. He needs to be a man and make his own thread where he takes a stand and stops being a:
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally have you ever considered seeing a shrink?
Do you have a job? A girlfriend?
You really wish to be related to the ancient egyptians. Your whole psychological being depends on it.
LOL! : )
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
a Bamiléké Princess Gillette Leuwat was born a Bamiléké Princess in Cameroon.The different facets of the culture of Cameroon (aka; Kamerun, Cameroun...) are present in the language, literature, music, art, religion and the cuisine of the West African nation.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally have you ever considered seeing a shrink?
Do you have a job? A girlfriend?
You really wish to be related to the ancient egyptians. Your whole psychological being depends on it.
LOL! : )
argie does have a point Wally needs to get more in touch with his inner Mandingo
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...from the banks of the Nile, to Cameroun, to America...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt. It is believed that the Bamiléké went down the Nile, crossed many rivers and cliffs using extraordinary mystical means. They crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlements. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century).
--- "Bamiléké belongs to the Mbam-Nkam group of Graffi languages, whose attachment to the Bantu division is still disputed. While some consider it a Bantu or semi-Bantu language, others prefer to include Bamiléké in the Niger-Congo group. Bamiléké is not a unique language. It seems that Bamiléké Medumba stems from ancient Egyptian and is the root language for many other Bamiléké variants." http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212,469f2d172,3f7d4d7134,0.html
"The Bamiléké are part of the Bantu peoples and occupy western regions of Cameroon. Tribal history gives the Bamiléké (an) Egyptian origin, migration from the banks of the Nile in the 9th century..." http://www.primitivearts.co.uk/page8.html
*Baladi = local, indigenous, native; refers to the “real Egyptian”, or “Masri Asil”, as opposed to the western occupiers and westernized Egyptians, known as “Afrang”.
The Bamileke are part of the Bantu people. Historically, the Bamun and the Bamileke were united. The founder of this group (Nchare) was the younger brother of the founder of Bafoussam. The Bamileke are a group of the Baladis, the real native people of Egypt. All peoples come from Egypt, but the fact that the Bamileke are the last people to leave the banks of the Nile (9th century) gives them an unfathomable strength in every respect, as well as an incredible conservation of the civilization of their Egypt-based ancestors --(Dieudonné Toukam, "Histoire et anthropologie du peuple bamiléké", Paris,2008 & 2010)
Chris Tucker with Ice Cube Chris Tucker mt-DNA traces ancestry to the Bamileke his y-DNA traces ancestry to the Mbundu of Angola
He is 'diagnosed' as:
83% Black African
10% AmerIndian
07% European
a Bamiléké Princess Gillette Leuwat was born a Bamiléké Princess in Cameroon.The different facets of the culture of Cameroon (aka; Kamerun, Cameroun...) are present in the language, literature, music, art, religion and the cuisine of the West African nation.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The origin of ancient Egyptian language Bamileke: Linguistic and genetic kinship between the Medu Neter and Medu Mba - by Mandjudja Nguegang
Bamileke
The Bamileke are the brothers of the group BAmoun who decided to cross the river "NUN", despite their knowledge of the myth of ancient Egypt that said that "black water brings chaos, misfortune bad luck. Many facts show that they crossed the river of the black water anyway because they would not be caught by Muslims.
Unlike Bamoun, who identified the God Amon, the Bamileke are identified by their origin, that of ancient Upper Egypt.
The figurative meaning of the Bamileke is: descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The word "Bamileke" is a modern name, for easy reading in Western languages.
BA 'Mieh Lah Ke' is the name of the nearest original guttural pronunciation.
The literal meaning of the word "Bamileke" by lts sound is as follows:
BA ': Those (to designate the geographical origin of someone)
Mieh: brothers
Lah: country, region
Ke ': Up, which is up a place, a region of land.
ln speaking of a country or region in Africa, it is of Upper Egypt.
Remember that the ancient Egyptians did not call their country "Egypt." They called their country, "High Country" and "Low Country" or KEMET for modern Egyptologists.
We are justified in thinking through the Bamileke we can say that Khe'Mieh = KEMET. This would therefore imply that KEMET means: The brothers of the High Country, or siblings of the upper region, referring to Upper Egypt. Up to the ancient Egyptians was down (in the current understanding), and designated the top down. Up in the understanding of ancient Egyptian therefore designated the South. We know they have always designated the South as the cardinal point of all their original culture and source of the current meaning of Kemet meaning "the land of the blacks, or the country of those who are black, burned"...
KEMET meaning "brethren of the high country or brothers of the Upper Region, Upper Egypt, more consistent with the spirit and thinking of ancient Egyptians. Recall that a former Egyptian word as an African word has several meanings, therefore the spelling of "Khe" has several meanings and interpretations depending on context.
Khe also means Bamileke: burned, black, etc.. ...
Upper Egypt at the time was the location of all the powers of KEMET.
So put together by its sound, the literal meaning of Bamileke means: The brothers who come from countries Upper, Upper Egypt (southern Egypt). .
Wally wrote: ------------------------------------------- Chris Tucker mt-DNA traces ancestry to the Bamileke his y-DNA traces ancestry to the Mbundu of Angola
He is 'diagnosed' as:
83% Black African
10% AmerIndian
07% European -------------------------------------------
Folks, now this pathetic fool is contradicting himself. This is the same person that said DNA tests are snake oil.
But you can't let something like hypocrisy get in the way of your anjunt ejipt fantasies can't you?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
from page 1 of this topic:
Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parentage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly Hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research!...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that (both) the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: [QB] The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...from the banks of the Nile, to Cameroun, to America...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt.
I don't believe it the Bamiléké's are wannabes, the were not living in Egypt in dynastic times. It's ridiculous. Their culture and clothing is entirely different, no traces of Egyptian. Language similarities don't prove they were living in Egypt in dynastic times and much of these similarities are coincidental.
Somebody could take Swedish and make an impressive Wally type list of certain words appearing similar to Coptic.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ...I don't believe it the Bamiléké's are wannabes, the were not living in Egypt in dynastic times. It's ridiculous. Their culture and clothing is entirely different, no traces of Egyptian. Language similarities don't prove they were living in Egypt in dynastic times and much of these similarities are coincidental.
Somebody could take Swedish and make an impressive Wally type list of certain words appearing similar to Coptic.
You can believe whatever you choose to...
This topic is the presentation of information for those with the capacity to read and to comprehend this information; it is NOT about what you or others choose to "believe." During this entire topic, neither you, nor argyle104...etc, have provided ANY factual information to this topic except to interject your own vacuous opinions/beliefs in order simply to interrupt...
Let's have some factual evidence:
a) demonstrate the relationship between Coptic and Swedish
b) demonstrate why the 'dress' of modern Upper Egyptians, who never left the country, is dissimilar to that of Ancient Egyptians and why that of the Bamileke, who did leave, is also dissimilar...
Fact is you can't do this; all you have to offer in this discussion are your "beliefs"...
Lemme give you a much needed 'jump start' on the language part:
English - Swedish - Ancient Egyptian
sun - sön - re
earth - jorden - ta
sky - himmel - pe
man - mannen - sa
brother - bror - son
sh|t - skit - eiten
water - vatten - mui
black - svart - kem.t
one - en - wa
vagina - vagina - kat
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry: the Akan
The Akan were not only an influential and ruling ethnicity in Ancient Egypt but in Ancient Sumer as well...
ANCIENT EGYPTIANS ◄ ► AKANS OF GHANA
Tutankamun ◄ ► Tutu Ankomah
Akhenaten ◄ ► Akenten
Khufu ◄ ► Akuffo
Nectanebo II ◄ ► Netaneboo
Wahibre ◄ ► Adakabre Frimpong, Kwabre,Wanibre
Tjahapimu ◄ ► hyehapimu
Osorkon I ◄ ► Osorkon, Osonokon, Osorokon
Meryre (Queen mother) ◄ ► Meyere (my wife)
Iniuia (sister) ◄ ► Ninua (sister)
Khaemtore (name) ◄ ► Kwame Tore
Osorkon I ◄ ► Onyakopon (God)
Shosheng I ◄ ► Susheng (town), sunafo
Karomama (name) ◄ ► Nkrummah, Adommah, Adomadu
Kamose (name) ◄ ► kamosi, Koo Mosi, Kwakuosi
Khamerenebty ◄ ► Kwame Kyerematen
Sahure (king) ◄ ► Sahureko, Sahurekohene,sahene
Titi (King) ◄ ► Tutu (king), Akwapim Tutu
Were-Imtes ◄ ► Weremante, Wereko, Brefo
Pepi I (King) ◄ ► Pobi (Name)
Nankhpepi ◄ ► Nanke Pobi
Moses ◄ ► Yaw Mosi (name)
Ramses ◄ ► Kofi Tomise/Ramise, Bese
Narfetiti ◄ ► Akwantifi, Asuotifi, Abetifi
Min ◄ ► Obeng, Beng, Ming, Enin
Menes ◄ ► Benneh, Meneh
Narmer ◄ ► Naama, Naa Mireku, Narmer
Osiris ◄ ► Osoro, ofiri, osere
Nebetta ◄ ► Kwasi Buta, Nsutta, Nsutamu
Nebsen ◄ ► Kwansen
Buto ◄ ► Buto (cook)
Udjo ◄ ► Hojo (weak)
Nekhem (town) ◄ ► Bechem (kumasi)
Amun (Thebes) ◄ ► Anum (area)
Sanakhte (king) ◄ ► Mante, Sanante, dartey
Nimaethap (name) ◄ ► Nima Ataa
Khaba ◄ ► Kaba (clothes)
Djoser (King) ◄ ► Gyasi, Kusi, Jose
Sneferu ◄ ► Na Ofori
Khafra ◄ ► kafra
Menkaure ◄ ► Kofi Manukure, Mentuare, Asutuare
Merenre I ◄ ► Manmre, Mereku, Kyeremeh
Meresankh ◄ ► Mere Sankah, Kwesi Yankah
Meseehti (Prince) ◄ ► Mese Nti (name, father, uncle Nti)
Karomama ◄ ► Amma Pramaa, Annorpomaa, Karomama
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
If Egyptian language has roots in other parts of Africa that does not mean the culture and technology of dynastic Egypt was going into or coming out of West Africa.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: If Egyptian language has roots in other parts of Africa that does not mean the culture and technology of dynastic Egypt was going into or coming out of West Africa.
If you can't provide concrete evidence (proof) to support a statement or view, then please remain silent... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...African migrations from the ancient Nile river valley to Beautiful Ghana; Akans (Fantis, Ashantis, Twi, ...), Ga, Ewe, ...
Note the Akan, Fante, and Twi ethnic names, all of which simply means "people"...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...Africans in constant motion...
The Ga are descended from immigrants who came down the Niger River and across the Volta during the 17th century AD.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
phoney baloney, everyone wants a piece of Egypt. the burden of proof is on you, the DNA does not support these claims
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Hmmm...Why do some females seem to need a lot of attention while others appear to have some sense?
Indeed, dana
...notice how they seem to have an incessant need to comment, even on matters of which they are ill-equipped to do so...and this isn't a female only monopoly, it is the monopoly of all idiots; male and female...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
HISTORY AND SIGNIFICANCE OF GHANA'S KENTE CLOTH
"Kente is an Asante ceremonial cloth hand-woven on a horizontal treadle loom. Strips measuring about 4 inches wide are sewn together into larger pieces of cloths. Cloths come in various colors, sizes and designs and are worn during very important social and religious occasions.
In a total cultural context, kente is more important than just a cloth. It is a visual representation of history, philosophy, ethics, oral literature, moral values, social code of conduct, religious beliefs, political thought and aesthetic principles. The term kente has its roots in the word kenten which means a basket."
...Budge appears skeptical in his translation of "khen" to mean "basket", possibly because he never identifies the meaning of this determinative, which seems to suggest a ritualistic function...
...
Nevertheless:
Akan (Ashanti): kenten = "basket"
Mdu Ntr: khen/ken = "basket"
...
(Also, was this style the inspiration for the Roman toga?)
... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks if this isn't the most pathetic spectacle.
What is all of this picture spam supposed to signify, other than you are desperate?
Wally's white master has told him that he is a "negro" from western Africa and that these peoples only lot in history are slaves.
Wally believes this and is now trying to use other groups to boost his sorry behind up psychologically.
And just what group is Wally attempting to use for this purpose? Why it's the anjunct egiptions. Because they are the Africans that Wally knows who are the most coveted of all Africans by Wally's white owners.
Wally is only following his master's lead which is why he keeps posting his delusions for everyone here to laugh at LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
As everyone can see this poor creature Wally believes in a racial hierarchy which is why he feels the need to try and soil western Africans with his hamite invasion theories.
It is also the reason why he hates the fact that slaves were from all over Africa and not just western Africa.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (if indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples; rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parentage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly Hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research!...
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that (both) the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
◄ ►
The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...from the banks of the Nile, to Cameroun, to America...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt. It is believed that the Bamiléké went down the Nile, crossed many rivers and cliffs using extraordinary mystical means. They crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlements. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century).
--- "Bamiléké belongs to the Mbam-Nkam group of Graffi languages, whose attachment to the Bantu division is still disputed. While some consider it a Bantu or semi-Bantu language, others prefer to include Bamiléké in the Niger-Congo group. Bamiléké is not a unique language. It seems that Bamiléké Medumba stems from ancient Egyptian and is the root language for many other Bamiléké variants."
"The Bamiléké are part of the Bantu peoples and occupy western regions of Cameroon. Tribal history gives the Bamiléké (an) Egyptian origin, migration from the banks of the Nile in the 9th century..."
*Baladi = local, indigenous, native; refers to the “real Egyptian”, or “Masri Asil”, as opposed to the western occupiers and westernized Egyptians, known as “Afrang”.
The Bamileke are part of the Bantu people. Historically, the Bamun and the Bamileke were united. The founder of this group (Nchare) was the younger brother of the founder of Bafoussam. The Bamileke are a group of the Baladis, the real native people of Egypt. All peoples come from Egypt, but the fact that the Bamileke are the last people to leave the banks of the Nile (9th century) gives them an unfathomable strength in every respect, as well as an incredible conservation of the civilization of their Egypt-based ancestors --(Dieudonné Toukam, "Histoire et anthropologie du peuple bamiléké", Paris,2008 & 2010)
a Bamiléké Princess Gillette Leuwat was born a Bamiléké Princess in Cameroon.The different facets of the culture of Cameroon (aka; Kamerun, Cameroun...) are present in the language, literature, music, art, religion and the cuisine of the West African nation.
◄ ►
The origin of ancient Egyptian language Bamileke: Linguistic and genetic kinship between the Medu Neter and Medu Mba - by Mandjudja Nguegang
Bamileke
The Bamileke are the brothers of the group BAmoun who decided to cross the river "NUN", despite their knowledge of the myth of ancient Egypt that said that "black water brings chaos, misfortune bad luck. Many facts show that they crossed the river of the black water anyway because they would not be caught by Muslims.
Unlike Bamoun, who identified the God Amon, the Bamileke are identified by their origin, that of ancient Upper Egypt.
The figurative meaning of the Bamileke is: descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The word "Bamileke" is a modern name, for easy reading in Western languages.
BA 'Mieh Lah Ke' is the name of the nearest original guttural pronunciation.
The literal meaning of the word "Bamileke" by lts sound is as follows:
BA ': Those (to designate the geographical origin of someone)
Mieh: brothers
Lah: country, region
Ke ': Up, which is up a place, a region of land.
ln speaking of a country or region in Africa, it is of Upper Egypt.
Remember that the ancient Egyptians did not call their country "Egypt." They called their country, "High Country" and "Low Country" or KEMET for modern Egyptologists.
We are justified in thinking through the Bamileke we can say that Khe'Mieh = KEMET. This would therefore imply that KEMET means: The brothers of the High Country, or siblings of the upper region, referring to Upper Egypt. Up to the ancient Egyptians was down (in the current understanding), and designated the top down. Up in the understanding of ancient Egyptian therefore designated the South. We know they have always designated the South as the cardinal point of all their original culture and source of the current meaning of Kemet meaning "the land of the blacks, or the country of those who are black, burned"...
KEMET meaning "brethren of the high country or brothers of the Upper Region, Upper Egypt, more consistent with the spirit and thinking of ancient Egyptians. Recall that a former Egyptian word as an African word has several meanings, therefore the spelling of "Khe" has several meanings and interpretations depending on context.
Khe also means Bamileke: burned, black, etc.. ...
Upper Egypt at the time was the location of all the powers of KEMET.
So put together by its sound, the literal meaning of Bamileke means: The brothers who come from countries Upper, Upper Egypt (southern Egypt)...
◄ ►
African American ancestry: the Akan
The Akan were not only an influential and ruling ethnicity in Ancient Egypt but in Ancient Sumer as well...
...African migrations from the ancient Nile river valley to Beautiful Ghana; Akans (Fantis, Ashantis, Twi, ...), Ga, Ewe, ...
Note the Akan, Fante, and Twi ethnic names, all of which simply means "people"...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Another African American ancestor - The Hausa people
"The Hausa claim that their founder, Bayajida, came from the east in an effort to escape his father. It is possible that his father was a ruler in Egypt or ancient Nubia. The story goes on to say that Bayajida eventually came to Gaya where he employed blacksmiths to fashion a knife for him. This fits the picture as the region of Gaya, Nok and Kano is famous for blacksmiths, such as the Inadan. Gaya is said to be the origin of a man named Kano who first settled in the present Kano State in search of ironstone.
With his knife Bayajida proceeded to Daura where he delivered the people from oppression by a powerful serpent who guarded their well and prevented them from getting water six days out of the week. The serpent could not keep them from taking water on the holy day. In appreciation, the queen of Daura married Bayajida and she gave birth to seven sons. Each became a ruler and ruled the seven city states that make up Hausaland...
That this earlier layer of the Hausa origins account is very old is attested by the role which water plays in the story. In the ancient Afro-Asiatic Dominion shrines were built along rivers and at wells and springs from west central Africa to the Indus River Valley. Serpents inhabited these places and were both venerated and feared. In Sanskrit serpent is “naaga”, in Hebrew “nahash”, and in Hausa the serpent is “naja.”
Hausa folks... Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
damn everybody in Africa came from Egypt, this is mind blowing
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: damn everybody in Africa came from Egypt, this is mind blowing
Idiot, in your case there's nothing much to blow...
It is far beyond your ability to understand the Bamiléké statement that "All peoples come from Egypt" is the same as saying:
"all African peoples once clustered in the ancient Nile valley" as they once clustered in the ancient fertile Saharan crescent...
Ancient Ghana, Mali, Songhai...as well as modern Nigeria, Ethiopia, South Africa are "all" or "pan" African states...
You know little of human history in general nor African history in particular...
The point of this thread is to document the ethnicities of Africans who formed a significant portion of the population of the African civilization of Ancient Egypt and whose descendants comprise the ancestry of African Americans...
(methinks that thou suffereth from White folks' Egyptian Madness)
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
Some African Americans resemble the Ancient and modern Egyptians due to race-mixing and some have Fulani, Tuareg roots. African Americans come in all shapes and colors. This can be divisive.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
Modern Africans have embraced the terminology to describe their tribal origins and divide themselves up by their appearances and languages.
In Mali, the reddish Tuaregs and black Bambaras (Mande) don't always get along. How can a Mande-speaking Bambara claim to be more "Egyptian" than a AfroAsiatic speaking Tuareg?
But, this is what has happened.
Cheik Anta Diop and his diciples including Dr. A.M. Lam have claimed Egypr. Although, I agree with his Peul book.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
The Ancient Egyptians were East Africans commonly called Cushites carrying mainly the E1b1b Y chromosome in the men. African Americans are mostly E1b1a and R1b in the male poulation.
We have ignored Nubia. The Ancient Egyptians were African. But, from a different Cushitic line. A different kind of "black". Although, Black is Black.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the Lyinass: phoney baloney, everyone wants a piece of Egypt. the burden of proof is on you, the DNA does not support these claims
Funny, that's what everybody here keeps tell YOU but you never listen.
By the way, while I think Wally's diffusionist claims are silly as well they actually make more sense and have more evidence than the wild claims YOU make.
For example the defining genetic clade that ancient Egyptians had was E. Mainly E1b1b which they share with east Africans yet the lineage associated with west Africans, E1b1a was present in the Nile Valley as well.
Tell us again how you came to the conclusion that Fulani or Somali are of Eurasian ancestry?? LOL Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
...By the way, while I think Wally's diffusionist claims are silly as well...
DIFFUSIONIST
an observation that emphasizes the role of diffusion in the history of culture rather than independent invention or discovery.
Diffusion across cultures is a well-attested and also uncontroversial phenomenon. For example, the practice of agriculture is widely believed to have diffused from somewhere in the "Middle East" to all of Eurasia, less than 10,000 years ago, having been adopted by many pre-existing cultures. Other established examples of diffusion include the spread of the war chariot and iron smelting in ancient times, and the use of cars and Western business suits in the 20th century...
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by the Lyinass: phoney baloney, everyone wants a piece of Egypt. the burden of proof is on you, the DNA does not support these claims
Funny, that's what everybody here keeps tell YOU but you never listen.
By the way, while I think Wally's diffusionist claims are silly as well they actually make more sense and have more evidence than the wild claims YOU make.
For example the defining genetic clade that ancient Egyptians had was E. Mainly E1b1b which they share with east Africans yet the lineage associated with west Africans, E1b1a was present in the Nile Valley as well.
Tell us again how you came to the conclusion that Fulani or Somali are of Eurasian ancestry?? LOL
Please cite the article that discusses ancient dna extracted from ancient Egyptians that indicate that they were E1b1b.
Without ancient Egyptian dna you can't say anything about their genetic profile.
.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Of course this is based on studies of modern populations of Egypt. The sample shown in the above map came from 'Arab' Egyptians of the Delta. Just imagine how much more frequent their E lineages would be and less frequent the Eurasian ones as one traveled south, especially from rural areas. Actually such samples were cited here many times. E1b1b was still predominant though again E1b1a still figures. I know this bothers you since you have this silly divisive grudge against East Africans, which is even more ludicrous since Egypt is after all in the eastern side of the continent. Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Red, White, and Blue + Christian,
You are the result of what happens when a drunken doctor fucks up a vesectimy procedure.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, look at how the fruitcake American view of race has turned this Wally character into a pathological loon.
It shows you how the concept of race can, in the wrong individual induce deranged fantasies. As in the case of Wally's hamite invasion theory of his mythical "west" Africa.
His opinions are based on emotion. Emotion has reduced his mind to dreaming up looney tune race fantasies and myths.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, Africans have been going to the Asian countries of China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Singapore, etc for roughly a thousand years if not more. Some of them have had children by the women of these nations.
Does that make the citizens of those nations mixed?
Does that make the citizens of those nations descendants of those travelling Africans?
Wally everyone is going to see if you can intelligently answer these questions.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
She is hot!!
Wally the link that you posted had another link to wiki and this is what it said. http://www.primitivearts.co.uk/page8.html The Bamileke went down the Nil, crossed many rivers and cliffs using levitation and other extraordinary mystic means; they crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem Bornou and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlement. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century). After the death of Chief Ndeh, the last unique king of the Bamileke, circa 1360 this people divided. That same year, Yendé, the first prince, shunt the throne and left it to Nchare and went away, crossed the Noun River with a group of men and women, and founded Bafoussam. Their (most known) sister followed him years later, then took the direction of the current Bamenda valley. In 1360, Nchare left Mbankim too and went down the Noun plain to found the Bamun kingdom (D. Toukam, 2010, pp. 26–28). From Bafoussam were created virtually all other Bamileke groups and villages between the 15th and the early 20th century. Main source: Dieudonné Toukam, "Histoire et anthropologie du peuple bamiléké", Paris: l'Harmattan, 242p., April 2010.
The high lited part seems questionable do you want to run with that source,mind you I think it's probable that migrants from the Nile valley settled in various parts of Africa including West Africa and others made the trip to the Nile valley and hence to Kemet proper..but levitation??
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Brada-Anansi wrote: --------------------------------- She is hot!! ---------------------------------
And why she beeeeeezzzzz haaaaaauuuuuuut?
Folks, this should be good.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Cause I sayz so??
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Typical you don't want to put it in words because you fear showing your racial beliefs.
Brada-Anansi
We're waiting........................
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Argyle104,
Explain your origins. I am far superior to you. I never used curse words in all my posts.
Modern Egypt is bigger than Ancient Egypt. The Ancient Egypt was divided into two lands and was 2/3 smaller. The northern population was more Berberish while the southern was more Sudanic.
Today, Cairo is the capital. Where do most modern Egyptians live?
Most Egyptians live in the north closer to the Delta and must be of a lighter complexion.
This woman is hot. She remind me of the Latinas in mi barrio.
I get it. The Egyptians of the north are North Africans a mix of Berber, Arab, Turk and Euro blood.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian:
This woman is hot. She remind me of the Latinas in mi barrio.
I get it. The Egyptians of the north are North Africans a mix of Berber, Arab, Turk and Euro blood.
You don't get anything it seems...
Yara Naoum is of Lebanese & Turkish ancestry; the colonizers, occupiers, and ultimate destroyers of Pharaonic Civilization; which lead to the migration of Pharaonic Egyptians, such as the Bamileke, southward and westward...
Bamileke princess Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Red, White, and Blue + Dunce wrote: --------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Dr. Kowslowski!
Why didn't you wait until after you performed the vesectimy on this boy's future father before you had those drinks?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally everyone is looking at that map you posted with Cameroon on it.
Why would they go all the way down to Cameroon to get slaves instead of going to Morocco, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, and Algeria? It doesn't make sense.
Wally?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Red, White, and vesectimy wrote:- -------------------------------------- She remind me of the Latinas in mi barrio. --------------------------------------
To which Wally replied: ----------------------------------- is of Lebanese & Turkish ancestry -----------------------------------
Wally are you saying that Turks, Lebanese, northern Africans, Iranians, and Arabs were not brought to the Americas as slaves?
Wally is that what you are saying?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Red, White, and vesectimy wrote:- -------------------------------------- She remind me of the Latinas in mi barrio. --------------------------------------
To which Wally replied: ----------------------------------- is of Lebanese & Turkish ancestry -----------------------------------
Wally are you saying that Turks, Lebanese, northern Africans, Iranians, and Arabs were not brought to the Americas as slaves?
Wally is that what you are saying?
a total of 23 people, you're right
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, why is it that some Cubans, Brazilians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc. look exactly like Turks, Lebanese, northern Africans, Iranians, Arabs, and people from the Levant?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, its a shame that you have reduced yourself to solicting a troll to incompetently fight your battles.
Are you that frightful of debating me..................
Argyle..................
the mighty.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally, why is it that some Cubans, Brazilians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc. look exactly like Turks, Lebanese, northern Africans, Iranians, Arabs, and people from the Levant?
you couldn't tell a half West African/half Spaniard apart from the above. leave Wally alone
-oh I forgot in your world people of different races never have children together
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Pink Blisters wrote: ----------------------------------------- you couldn't tell a half West African/half Spaniard apart from the above. -----------------------------------------
LOOOOOOOOL!!!!
Everyone is laughing at the above. You're dismissed.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: linoess wrote: ----------------------------------------- you couldn't tell a half West African/half Spaniard apart from the above. -----------------------------------------
LOOOOOOOOL!!!!
Everyone is laughing at the above. You're dismissed.
that "you're dismissed" line is old and corny
you generally
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally according to the maps posted by the racist Djehuti, AAs do not have any ancestry from the Dogon, Mande, ancient Mali, and ancient Ghana. Remember folks that the location of ancient Ghana is not the same as present day Ghana. Think ancient Ethiopia and present day Ethiopia.
Wally can you explain why what you say is being contradicted?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
What you said is a farce, therefore you are dismissed.
Bye blisters. : )
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle104 stop being a half pint, man up and make your own thread
unless you're scared little boy, the heat you might take
go ahead keeping nipping at the heals
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...here we go again...
The Kindergartners, too mentally immature to engage in adult conversation and determined to bring their "Ancient Egypt" forum B.S. over to this forum...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally everyone is waiting for you to answer the simple questions asked by me.
You're dodging which means you're making things up and don't have the slightest inkling of know what you're talking about.
Wally.......
We're waiting..........................
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
EDO - BENIN - YORUBA ANCESTORS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS...
UYILAWA USUANLELE, INSTITUTE OF BENIN STUDIES
It is a fact that Talbot was the first to trace the "Origin" of Edo people to Sudan in the East . The colonial racist under-pinning of such historiography was to infuse the people with a perpetual feeling of inferiority, by crediting African achievements to their association with a caucasian hamitic race thereby denying Africans of their history. But this hamitic hypothesis has since been demystified and largely discarded, in spite of Chiekh Anta Diops seminal thesis on The African Origin of Civilization, in which he made a strong case for the linkage of African history with Egypt in order to establish the common origin and unity of African peoples. The rejection of the hamitic hypothesis came long after Chief Jacob Egharevba had published his magnus opus A short history of Benin, which was a major contribution to the development of African Historiography , which was still then in its infancy and unweaned from racist colonial historiography...
"Benin has been existing as a Nation from time unknown. the Benins sprang from the original human family and emigrated from Egypt " P.12
The committees linkage of Benin with Egypt was not borne out of desire to associate with any Caucasian race as posited by the European hamitic hypothesis peddlers . Rather they were conscious of the Africanness of Egyptian civilization -an idea which was current among Pan-Aficanist of that period. Since Egypt, the cradle of civilization, was African, the committee reasoned and hypothesized that, Benin's genius must have been derived from Egypt. Hence the committee compared certain aspects of Benin culture with those of Pharoahic Egypt. Members of the committee of six were very conscious of Benin's rich cultural heritage and never felt inferior to any Caucasian race.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
I am not contradicting you. It's just that the northernmost Morth Africans from Morocco to Egypt areof a lighter complexion and as you go south people get darker. Egypt has a north with a Delta area full of rivers to support a large human population.
That doesn't mean West Africans don't have a home in UPPER EGYPT AND NUBIA. The Nile is long.
How can we African Americans criticize modern Egyptians of Jews for not being racially pure when we are not racially pure?
It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
Northern Egypt was Berberish, Southern Egypt was Sudanic. Two Lands.
Isis (Berber woman) + Osiris (Sudanic guy) =
Horus (Egyptian Mullato boy)
That's it!
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
BTW,
I think Argyle104 is female and possibly an Afro-Pinay.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian:
...Northern Egypt was Berberish, Southern Egypt was Sudanic. Two Lands.
Isis (Berber woman) + Osiris (Sudanic guy) =
Horus (Egyptian Mullato boy)
That's it!
Man, you seriously need some 'edumacation'...
Even today, Berbers (Meshwesh) only represent 2% of the population of Egypt.
Denderah: birthplace of Isi and Osiri
Judging by the sheer number of given titles, the most venerated city of Kemet was not Thebes, but Denderah. After all, this was the city where the Parents of the Kememou nation (Isis and Osiris) were born. (It is also in the same neighborhood as Naqada). Here are some of the titles of this city:
"The birthplace of Isis"
"The Throne of the Queen"
"The perfect throne in the Holy of Holies"
"The place of joy"
"The thrones of Horus"
"The holy temple of Horus"
"The throne of eternity"
"The throne of the drink"
"The birthplace of Nut"
"The Golden House"
"The Sanctuary of Osiris"
"The Sanctuary of Re"
"The city of the knowing of Isis"
"The temple of life"
"The temple of Hathor"
"The eternal house"
"The exalted temple"
"The holy temple of Horus of the Two-Lands"
"The house of knowledge" (per Rekhit)
Denderah, Upper Egypt Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Fulani: Another branch of African American ancestry:
Fertile Saharan (c9,000 ya) middle African cradle
▼
Paal (Kemet; c12th dynasty)
▼
Pël (Paal; Peul, Pulaar, Fulani... - East to West Africa)
▼
African American
Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into inner Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, ad infinitum, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
Now look at the following quote, one that places the origin of the Fulani safely in the 'upper Nile region,' which ignores the historical reality that the Fulani were Egyptian nationals prior to their emigration into the upper Nile region,
Fulani history
"Some historians believe the Fulani emerged from a prehistoric pastoral group that originated in the upper Nile region around 3500 B.C. As the climate of the Sahara grew increasingly harsh, population pressures drove them to migrate slowly west and south in search of better grazing lands. By the eleventh century the Fulani emerged as a distinct people group in the Sénégambia Valley. Over the next 400 years they journeyed back east, but south of the Sahara, which had become an inhospitable desert.
Traditionally most Fulani are shepherds or cattle herders, but over time some settled down and, by the nineteenth century, had established a series of kingdoms between Sénégal and Cameroon. The Fulani have myths about how the nomads and settled rulers emerged..."
...here's some linguistic data comparing Fulani ● Mdu Ntr...
I: mi ● ni
you: on ● un
we: en ● un
they: be ● bu (people)
to be bad: bonude ● boone
bad: boni ● bon
death; to die: maayde;maayude ● maati, moute, moout, mouti
last year: rawanen ● ronpe
eye: yitere ● eirti
blessing: barka ● baraka
cow: nagge ● naga
father: baaba ● baba
...
A distinction should be made between ordinary Kememou totemic names and those associated with a god or gods;Totemic gods...
Ordinary Totemic names - an animate or inanimate object that serves as an emblem for a particular social group or a people; more generally, any venerated symbol.
EX:
1) The totemic name of the group which ousted the Hyksos was Tau or 'Bread'
2) The totemic name of the group which then became the 18th dynasty was Ioh or "moon"
Totemic God - A god revered by a particular social group or a people. A group totemIc god represents the bond of unity - The group's symbol and protector.
EX:
1) The totemic god of the Mesnitu was Hor, hence they were called Shemsu Hor or "the followers of 'Horus'..."
2) The great totemic ancestor-god of the Kememou was Osiri
The word for Fulani in Wolof is Pël, from this the French derived Peul
PL/PAAL (Pa3L) - FULANI
Budge got this one wrong, the word is written "Pl" and "Paal". I don't know where Budge got the "u" ending as the word is singular and there is no "u" in sight; the "r" is just a Egyptological standardized rendering of the lion as 'r' even though it more often represents the letter "l"...
The Fulani
...and the Fulani in America
The Fulani were noted as expert cattlemen; (It has been suggested that the expertise of Africans with cattle gave rise to the expression "cowboy" as opposed to those who were "houseboys"...)
...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Er um Wally, you say the ancient egyptians migrated into western Africa and took the women of the ethnicities of western Africa.
How does that happen Wally?
Didn't the Ancient Egyptians who you say migrated to western Africa have their own women?
What did the men of those other ethnicities do? Hand over their women and go without sex?
If the Ancient Egyptians did take over the ethnicities of western Africa as you proclaim in your posts, then why do these ethnicities still exist? Why didn't the Ancient Egyptians get rid of those groups, or change the names of those groups, or simply absorb those groups and call them kemetans?
Wally we're waiting........................
Folks as you can see, it is very easy to make mince meat out of Wally's delusions using simple commonsense.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Everyone, as you can see Wally suffers from mental servtitude to pseudoscience propaganda.
He needs to invent invasion theories to form a connection to the Ancient Egyptians. This is because he believes that only west African negroes were brought as slaves.
He then has to go into denial about the fact that people from Egypt being brought over as slaves because it destroys the racial propaganda his white master's has sodomized into Wally.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
Our ancestors of the Fullah who were enslaved in South Carolina said they came from Egypt and were descended from the Shepherd Kings. They are our sages of blesssed memory and I go by what they said.
The Fullah(Fulani,Peul), Hausa and Tuareg are the best examples of those who have a possible connection to Ancient Egypt. The Tuareg, Hausa and other Chadic speakers in Cameroon speak an AfroAsiatic languages.
So, to prove an African American - AE connection, I personally concenterate on these tribes.
Many groups were in Egypt, but the ruling class was probably represented by men whose Y chromosome was E1b1b and not E1b1a (West African = Negro). They were like the people in Somalia and Ethiopia.
The West African Negro is much more powerful and polygamous. If the West African Negro were in AE ruling, the Assyrians, Persians and Greeks would have never conquered it. The history of the Middle East and Mediterranean would have been different. Others have hinted at this before using the word Bantu.
BTW, I believe in 50 years, the Fulani who are the 3rd numerous group in modern Sudan will take over that country and be the number one ethnic group they are Negroes.
Throughout time no ne ethic group dominates forever. Rome and Greece rukled Europe. But now, the Germans and British are in control.
The other African tribes of West Africa have roots in Nubia. The land of Nubia lasted longer that AE. The architecture features like the big umbrella which can be found in Cenral Africa and the ba figure (a fetish without wings) are proof enough.
-----------------------
The Y chromosome marker for the Berbers is E-M81. The mtdna markers are U6, H and more U and V which are even higher than E-M81 in Egypt.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posting again since Wally is on the run from a scholarly debate.
Wally are you saying that Turks, Lebanese, northern Africans, Iranians, and Arabs were not brought to the Americas as slaves?
History doesn't lie Wally.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ever see the movie '10' with Bo Derek wearing an ancient African hairdo which she reportedly claimed that she 'invented'...'10' is a decent escapist film that allows the viewer to escape the hardships of real life and luxuriate in the fantasy world of illusion...
The Real hair world: from Kemet to Africa-America... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry: The Tukulor - from the Sudan to the Gambia...
Tukulor women... A blend of Fulani, Wolof, and Serer peoples...
excerpt from "The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality " by Cheikh Anta Diop:
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Wally maybe Africa should just be renamed Kemet
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, "escapist" is the perfect word for you.
You are trying to escape the perception of what you think you are. Which is why you come up with all of these hair brained myths, you try to pass off as fact.
You have also confirmed what I already knew of you. You're just another dim witted American entertaimnent junkie and flunkie. Which is why you see the world via your crazy race dogma and can never be anything other than a clown pretending to be a scholar.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Following the social voyage of a word - --
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
● ● ●
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
● ● ●
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
.................
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Er um Wally, you say the ancient egyptians migrated into western Africa and took the women of the ethnicities of western Africa.
How does that happen Wally?
Didn't the Ancient Egyptians who you say migrated to western Africa have their own women?
What did the men of those other ethnicities do? Hand over their women and go without sex?
If the Ancient Egyptians did take over the ethnicities of western Africa as you proclaim in your posts, then why do these ethnicities still exist? Why didn't the Ancient Egyptians get rid of those groups, or change the names of those groups, or simply absorb those groups and call them kemetans?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
From the Projects back to the Pyramids... an African American social force that is redefining/correcting Egyptology
An Egyptian and an African American
Harlem’s African-American Day Parade "Some of the costumes were great. There was a lot of (Ancient) Egyptian motif stuff at the parade. This group had the best of the costumes, but they weren’t alone."
● ● ●
Angelina Jolie in racial storm over her suitability to play Cleopatra
The Egyptian queen was famously played by Elizabeth Taylor in 1963, but the proposed remake has sparked controversy over Jolie's suitability for the role.
Scott Rudin, who is producing the film, has said that Jolie has "the perfect look" for the Queen who lured Marc Anthony to her side, but his words have angered the African American community. Angelina Jolie in racial storm over her suitability to play Cleopatra. The Egyptian queen was famously played by Elizabeth Taylor in 1963, but the proposed remake has sparked controversy over Jolie's suitability for the role.
Scott Rudin, who is producing the film, has said that Jolie has "the perfect look" for the Queen who lured Marc Anthony to her side, but his words have angered the African American community.
Essence Magazine has been quoted asking, "Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?" "I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are.
"Cleopatra VII" and "Nefertiti"
● ● ●
Mummy of Priest Shepenmin... Shepenmin, son of Pahat; both were wardrobe priests and likely worked together at a temple circa 200 B.C.
From the Projects back to the Pyramids... an African American social force that is redefining/correcting Egyptology
An Egyptian and an African American
Harlem’s African-American Day Parade "Some of the costumes were great. There was a lot of (Ancient) Egyptian motif stuff at the parade. This group had the best of the costumes, but they weren’t alone."
● ● ●
Angelina Jolie in racial storm over her suitability to play Cleopatra
Angelina Jolie in racial storm over her suitability to play Cleopatra. The Egyptian queen was famously played by Elizabeth Taylor in 1963, but the proposed remake has sparked controversy over Jolie's suitability for the role.
Scott Rudin, who is producing the film, has said that Jolie has "the perfect look" for the Queen who lured Marc Anthony to her side, but his words have angered the African American community.
Essence Magazine has been quoted asking, "Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?" "I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are."
"Cleopatra VII" and "Nefertiti"
● ● ●
Mummy of Priest Shepenmin... Shepenmin, son of Pahat; both were wardrobe priests and likely worked together at a temple circa 200 B.C.
Note: Many folks would be anxious to belittle the African American's negative response to the portrayal of Cleopatra as a White woman as a sign of intellectual ignorance; "Don't they know that Cleopatra was a Ptolemy Greek!?!"
Despite some evidence to the contrary...
quote:The Telegraph
Cleopatra had African ancestry, skeleton suggests
Cleopatra could have been part-African, according to the study of a skeleton believed to be her half sister. 11:33AM GMT 15 Mar 2009
Traditional thinking has always been that the monarch, memorably portrayed by Elizabeth Taylor, was Greek Caucasian.
But experts have discovered what they think are her sister's remains, revealing that the siblings had a part-African heritage. Princess Arsinoe's remains were found in a tomb in Ephesus, Turkey.
There was no love lost between her and her powerful sister - it is believed that Cleopatra ordered Roman lover Mark Antony to murder her.
...it is decidedly besides the point; the point being that African Americans are standing up against the distortions of their historical heritage, even distortions regarding a minor colonialist queen in African history...
Now it is recognized that Hollywood operates on the profit margin, so which of the following actresses would attract the biggest draw of movie goers (mostly under 30) to see a motion picture of "Cleopatra" produced in the 21st century:
Angelina or Halle Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
* Arsinoe of Macedon, mother of Ptolemy I Soter
* Arsinoe I of Egypt
* Arsinoe II of Egypt
_________________________
* Arsinoe III of Egypt
* Arsinoe IV of Egypt — (half) sister of Cleopatra VII ("Cleopatra")
____________________________________
Bust of Cleopatra VII, carved in her own lifetime
____________________________________
The skull was lost in Germany during WWII. However Hilke Thuer examined the old notes and photographs of the now-missing skull,[15][16] and concluded that it shows signs of an admixture of African & Egyptian ancestry mixed with classical Grecian features - despite the fact that Boas, Gravlee, Bernard and Leonard and others have demonstrated that skull measurements are not a reliable indicator of race. Although Arsinoe was only a half-sister to Cleopatra, Afrocentrists have accordingly claimed that Cleopatra VII was black, in spite of the Greek-Macedonian origin of most of Arsinoe's and Cleopatra's ancestors.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
they're giving the brother a hard time about Eritrea links to AE. drop the knowledge on "em
All Europeans are Irish
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...African American ancestry - Yoruba
The Eyes have it...beautiful Yoruba ladies...look at the eyes, and other things...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Now, if y'all can take your minds off of the 'eye-candy' for a minute...
what do you think of this? Is this a valid 'word voyage?'
hp; hpti - hep; hepi; hōpi Do you think that "spy", "slink along", "go stealthily", "on the lookout"...
corresponds with:
Wolof: hipi - "to open one's eyes" ; hipi kat - "one who has his eyes open"
African American: Hep, Hip - "someone who knows what's going on or has a clue"
---what do you think?...anybody...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ------------------------------------ what do you think?...anybody... ------------------------------------
What do we think?
Wally, we think you're a loon.
Your obsession with being a descendent of the anjunt ejiptions is beyond pathetic and requires counseling.
You're like some 85 year old senile broad who thinks the 16 year old kid who takes her groceries to the car has the hots for her.
At least in the old broad's case its because of senility. What is your excuse Wally?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Now, if y'all can take your minds off of the 'eye-candy' for a minute...
what do you think of this? Is this a valid 'word voyage?'
hp; hpti - hep; hepi; hōpi Do you think that "spy", "slink along", "go stealthily", "on the lookout"...
corresponds with:
Wolof: hipi - "to open one's eyes" ; hipi kat - "one who has his eyes open"
African American: Hep, Hip - "someone who knows what's going on or has a clue"
---what do you think?...anybody...
Good post Wally it is further confirmation that ancient Egyptian was a lingua franca used to unite the Pan-African civilization that was Egypt.
.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: (regarding "hep") Good post Wally it is further confirmation that ancient Egyptian was a lingua franca used to unite the Pan-African civilization that was Egypt.
Following the social voyage of a word - --
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
● ● ●
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
● ● ●
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
● ● ●
The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America."
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Watch this folks.
Wally, what about the Tuareg? Aren't you going to post picture spam of Tuaregs?
Wally I thought you said Tuaregs are also relatives of AAs.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Watch this folks.
Wally, what about the Tuareg? Aren't you going to post picture spam of Tuaregs?
Wally I thought you said Tuaregs are also relatives of AAs.
OK, no problem for the intelligent ones here...(and why in a nut's brain that posting illustrations is spam?)
My opening thread:
"The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
African American ancestry: the Taureg - The Tehennu or "blue men" or "people who dress in blue" Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally are you saying that people who looked like each of the people above in the images you posted were brought over to the Americas as slaves?
Is that what you are saying Wally?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally are you saying that people who looked like each of the people above in the images you posted were brought over to the Americas as slaves?
Is that what you are saying Wally?
Yes, you most severely challenged one, as well as these slaves who were euphemistically referred to as "indentured servants" when the reality is that they were European slaves...
( ad kinda sounds like '40 acres and a mule')
I know that as pallid as it is, you might try and study your own White history and somehow struggle to overcome your obvious fear of Black people... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I'm trying to make sure I understand correctly Wally. So I'll be more specific.
The old guy on the last row, furthest to the right wearing the blue turban and white linen.
Wally are you saying that people that looked like him were brought over to the Americas as slaves?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: I'm trying to make sure I understand correctly Wally. So I'll be more specific.
The old guy on the last row, furthest to the right wearing the blue turban and white linen.
Wally are you saying that people that looked like him were brought over to the Americas as slaves?
why do you have him singled out?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: I'm trying to make sure I understand correctly Wally. So I'll be more specific.
The old guy on the last row, furthest to the right wearing the blue turban and white linen.
Wally are you saying that people that looked like him were brought over to the Americas as slaves?
If your heritage in America goes as far back as the Colonial era, then people that look like you were slaves as well!
"In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites. However, slave laws were soon passed – in Massachusetts in 1641 and Virginia in 1661 –and any small freedoms that might have existed for blacks were taken away.
As demands for labor grew, so did the cost of indentured servants. Many landowners also felt threatened by newly freed servants demand for land. The colonial elite realized the problems of indentured servitude. Landowners turned to African slaves as a more profitable and ever-renewable source of labor and the shift from indentured servants to racial slavery had begun. "
It's all semantics/euphemisms:
a) Cheap Mexican labor is euphemistically referred to as "illegal immigration"
b) Cheap skilled Asian labor (China and India) is euphemistically referred to as "outsourcing"
c) In South Asia, slavery is euphemistically referred to as "Debt bondage"
I mean, if one can't grasp the history and reality of their own world, how could one possibly grasp the history and reality of ancient Africa?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Yes men such as that one the near white at the end was taken by the Portuguese from the outset as slaves as well as more darker skinned types.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
from another thread...
quote:Originally posted by ausar: The problem is that European academics did not stop at ancient Egypt. When tracing the history of western Africa and portions of Central Africa you will find that many sophisticated groups from these regions were given fake lineages from so-called Hamitic groups. A good example of this is the Yoruba which many scholars tried to attribute to wandering 'Hamitic caucasoids.'' Even the Zulu people were called ''Hamitic caucasoids.''
The stealing of African history does not just stop at ancient Egypt.
ausar, You have to be able to discern the difference between sh|t and Shinola!
Just because European racists concocted this fairy tale myth of "Hamitic Caucasians", which is a contradiction in itself (Black White people), should not result in an automatic disregard for African history, of its processes.. . a) "wandering Hamitic Caucasians" are actually, in the real world, wandering BLACK Africans...
b) Ancient Egypt was neither the beginning or the end of Black history, simply part of the process...Black folks are alpha and omega; well, we certainly know that we're alpha...
c) the great Western Sudanic civilizations didn't just spring up out of the blue but were part of the process of African history...
d) certainly you don't believe that the Shona created Great Zimbabwe or Khami without the foreknowledge of ancient cultures, of which they were a part of?
e) do you seriously believe that the ancient name of the King of Ghana TENKAMENIN, which is clearly Mdu Ntr, is some coincidence?
--these groups weren't given, as is the colonial prerequisite, "fake hamitic" lineages but had the intelligence to know their history, going back millenniums via the Griots...
know and trust your own African history or react to the "Western historians" - 'sup to you Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; from Ancient Egypt to beyond and before... Ancient Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculpture is that of a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Khet - a visual statement, despite the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...this is "egyptology!"
Horemkhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - par l'homme excellent noir
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
How about this one?
djai (jah.ee) - wrong, evil
Wolof: jev - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
African American: jive - to mislead, con
???? Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...and this one...
Djam (jam)
African Americanism: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
● ● ●
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; from Ancient Egypt to beyond and before...
Ancient Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculpture is that of a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Akhet - a visual statement, despite the defacement by the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...
Horemakhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - le grand Nègre
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
then get off you azz and build a pyramid
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...another African American ancestry: The Akan of Ghana
...although I disagree with the argument that the Akan language was the major language in Kemet - it was only a dialect of the Mdu Ntr - I do think that the author's musings are informational...
Akan - a totemic god
AKAN, THE LANGUAGE OF THE ANCIENTS
quote:Akan was the major language used during the great civilisation in Egypt even though there were still some smaller languages spoken among family members. Our noble kings, Tutu Ankomah, Akenten, Tutu Mosi, Kamosi, Netanebour, Amosi, Akuffo and many others ruled in the civilisation that opened the eyes of the world. It is sad to see that our brothers in the Northern Hemisphere and other parts of the world have now turned it around that they opened our eyes. Later when Ghana/Akana Empire was founded which lasted over thousand years in the present-day Mali, Akan was widely spoken in those major cities founded around. In this area, the town Sikasuoso could be visited today. During the Akana Empire, no country in the Europe could match the organisation and developments that this famous empire achieved. Pretty sad that like the Egyptian civilisation, Akana Empire used bricks not burnt to erect their famous buildings and certain structures so presently no strong structures remain, apart from the pyramids and inventions in writing we have left behind as our legacies.
Even way back in Mesopotamia, before all these great empires, Akan related language was used by the people. Biblical Abraham was from the tribe of Okwahu who spoke also Akan. Observe carefully at how the King who wrote the famous laws to his people, that is, King Hammurabi's word for compensation was spelt, MUSHKENUM, and compare that with Akan word for compensation MONHENUMU. Being a member of the Horites family, the patriarch Akan that we all descended from in Genesis 36:25, 26, was respected and cherished by many nations and its people. As one of the chiefs, he dwelt in Egypt where the greatest civilisation of man was founded. I would not be surprised that since the Akan was used in the Ancient civilisation in Egypt and later in Ghana/Akana Empire, many countries such as Ivory Coast (where 45% are Akan) and others will consider adopting it because its use would enable these countries and Ghanaians as well to do well in sciences and mathematics... Author: Osabarima Darko Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:57:00 http://www.modernghana.com/newsthread/305115/1/134051
some Akan ladies... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Diola (Jola) - another African American ancestral branch:
Jola women harvesting rice
quote: Amongst the earliest people in the Senegambia region were the Jolas, who had migrated from Egypt.(c1000 BC) They brought palm seed, cotton and rice with them and settled along the Atlantic coast and river mouth. They lived in small, independent communities recognizing no central authority. Today many still live near the coastal areas in The Gambia and unlike many of the (ethnic groups) they have retained more of their traditional practices and beliefs, due in part to their independent nature. A Colonial Office report in 1929 described the Jola (people) as mainly pagan, although Islam was beginning to gain ground amongst them.
The Jolas were the only (people) never to have kept slaves, although they did sell their own prisoners of war to merchants . The Jolas were themselves often victims of slave takers and were particularly subjugated by the Mandinkas (Mandingoes).
Some Jola ladies... Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Wally any more info on the Diola glyphs I tried a goole and wiki search but came up empty. I would like to find out more so as to add it to the African writing systems thread.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Wally any more info on the Diola glyphs I tried a google and wiki search but came up empty. I would like to find out more so as to add it to the African writing systems thread.
This type of information regarding the paintings on the house is best obtained from a Jola source; I had hoped that someone on this forum, who is familiar with Jola, would have chimed in. However, we can compare some of these glyphs with Mdu Ntr; doesn't necessarily have to have the same meaning in Jola...
a) "man climbing tree"
b)
c)
d)
e)
quote:‘According to Amélineau: An means man in Diola. Thus Anu originally may have meant men.’ Cheikh A.Diop
Anu was also the Sumerian (African) name for the sky or sky god. An being the first cause (man)...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...here's another word to study
note that the hi-lighted portion of this glyph indicates that this is an abstract word
Koolep (Coptic - qoalep) : to declare, make clear
now compare this to:
African Americanism - "cool" (the longest lived popular abstract/slang word in American English)
quote: The usage of cool as a general positive epithet or interjection has been part and parcel of English slang since World War II, and has even been borrowed into other languages, such as French and German. Originally this sense is a development from a Black English usage meaning 'excellent, superlative,' first recorded in written English in the early 1930s.
What about the Kabyles?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...another indirect route of an African word to America...
Sr/Sir: prince, noble
the determinative...
...and centuries later...
"sir: c.1300, title of honor of a knight or baronet (until 17c. also a title of priests), variant of sire, originally used only in unstressed position. Generalized as a respectful form of address by mid-14c.; used as a salutation at the beginning of letters from early 15c."
"1. a formal or polite term of address for a man
2. archaic a gentleman of high social status
[C13: variant of sire]"
... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Following the social voyage of a word; update
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
● ● ●
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
● ● ●
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
● ● ●
(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
● ● ●
The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Following the social voyage of a word; update
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
▬▬▬▬▬▬
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
▬▬▬▬▬▬
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
▬▬▬▬▬▬
The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
What about the Kabyles?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...another indirect journey from Africa to America...
Gas (gohs; Coptic - qos) : flatulence, fart, expel intestinal gas through the anus... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Are Kabyles related to African Americans?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^^ don't bother Wally he's in the process of trying to convince himself that he's 2 percent Egyptian while it's probably closer to 1.23 %
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally,
Are Kabyles related to African Americans?
The Kabyles, a Berber speaking people who cluster mostly in the Atlas mountains of northern Algeria, are the descendants of Germanic vandals and were not a significant element in the trans-Atlantic slave population, so the answer to your question is NO.
Linguistic evidence
“Careful search reveals that German feminine nouns end in t and st. Should we consider that Berbers were influenced by Germans or the reverse? This hypothesis could not be rejected a priori, for German tribes in the fifth century overran North Africa via Spain, and established an empire that they ruled for 400 years….Furthermore, the plural of 50 percent of Berber nouns is formed by adding en, as is the case with feminine nouns in German, while 40 percent form their plural in a, like neuter nouns in Latin. Since we know the Vandals conquered the country from the Romans, why should we not be more inclined to seek explanations for the Berbers in that direction, both linguistically and in physical appearance: blond hair, blue eyes, etc? But no! Disregarding all these facts, historians decree that there was no Vandal influence and that it would be impossible to attribute anything in Barbary to their occupation” (p.69). Diop; The African Origin of Civilization
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...another African American ancestry - the Ga people of Ghana...
The Origin of the Ga People
by Daniel Tetteh Osabu-Kle Carleton University The Ga people belong to the Ga-Dagbe group of Kwa people who inhabit the Greater Accra region of present day Ghana. The Kwa people of Africa include the Ga-Dagbe, Ewe, Akwapim, Fanti, Kwahu, and Akim and Ashanti. According to some legends Ga people migrated from Nigeria, others that they were part of Israel that migrated southward through present day Uganda, then along the Congo River, westward through Cameroons, Nigeria, Benin, Togo and finally to Greater Accra.
Given that Africans have roamed the continent for thousands of years and that such migrations might have been northward, southward, eastward or westward, the origin of any group of people in Africa may be very uncertain. Any African might have relatively originated from anywhere in Africa. The cited origin might as well be what could be remembered about the recent past and not the ultimate origin. For example, the Wolof name for a king is Fari which is very similar to the word Faro of ancient Egypt and may point to the Egyptian heritage of the Wolof in West Africa. The Egyptian word for the highest god and righteous father was Ra and the Setwana word for father is also Ra.
It is therefore not surprising that among the Ga people, those at Teshi claim to have migrated from a town called Boma on the shores of the Congo River, those at Labadi from Boney Island off the coast of Nigeria and those from Gamashi from Benin City in Eastern Nigeria. While these legends from remembered history cannot be proved, they cannot be denied as well. There are several names in Uganda among the Acholi which are very similar to Ga names and there is supposed to be a language in the Cameroons called Ge which is similar to the Ga language. Moreover, the pronunciation of the word Ga is more similar to the word Ghana than the word Akan from which Dr. J. B Danquah created his myth linking the Akan to the ancient Ghana empire. To complicate matters, the ancient unleavened bread of the Ga people called akpiti is much the same as the unleavened bread of the Jews. What can be said with certainty is that the Ga people were not static, but dynamic and engaged in the very common phenomenon of migration in Africa and that the Homowo festival had its origin in such migration. Before delving into the origin and meaning of Homowo, it is expedient to provide a brief account of the political structure of the Ga people, and some brief account of their culture. Because very few people including Rev. Carl Christian Reindorf (1834-1917), A. B. Quartey-Papafio, and Rev. Peter Addo have taken the trouble to write about the Ga people, much will be derived from the rich remembered history handed down from generation to generation. Quartey-Papafio’s account of Homowo applies to Gamashi only while that of Rev. Peter Addo is very brief.
While remembered history cannot be full proof, written history cannot be also full proof. Elements of truth can be garnered from each of them through critical and comparative analysis of facts collected from various sources. Much of the work of Carl Christian Reindorf followed this approach when he compared and analyzed remembered history collected from various people. Normally, such remembered history is written in the minds of trusted initiates of the royal houses after the rite of butung. As one who hails from one of the royal houses of the Ga State, I had the advantage of being educated in the tradition of the Ga people by the grey-headed wise men and women through the practice of writing in the mind rather than on paper described below in the section on the culture of the Ga people. I consider it my responsibility to transfer some of what has been written in my mind on paper to the benefit of humankind. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally,
What about the Kabyles?
Argyle I think that depends on what kind of Kabyle your talking about.
Some Kabyles look like they could be related to AFrican Americans
Some look more like Romans and Syrians
Some look Heidi,from the Alps - Yodeleh ee o-oh! lol!
Seriously though, most Kabyle Berbers have some ancient African blood or genes at least on the paternal side and they can conceivably be related to African Americans.
A couple 19th century writers mention that most Kabyles were brown in color and some near black and that there were only a few pale clans among them.
Hope that helps?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The etymology of "Ofay"
"Ofay" is a racial slur of African origin that African Americans used to refer to white people. It was commonly used as a derogatory nickname in the South. So where is the original written source for this word?...of course, the Mdu Ntr...
Ofe - greedy, gluttonous man (noun)
note the determinative in the word Ofe
here's the more general, less threatening use of the word Ofe
now, peruse these words in some African languages...
Coptic: ufe - to tie, bind, compress
Yoruba: ofe - a juju amulet used to protect one from danger
igbo: ofe - soup
Akan: ofe - sap from ofea plant used in cooking
▬▬▬▬▬▬
...now, tell me what do you think...
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
It's Ol' Fay. Ol' is short for Ole or Old like Grand Ole Party or Good Ol' Boy.
Dat ol' fay was meeeeeeeeeean.
Dana Marniche,
OurGal104 has said that she believes the African American population is decended from Africans from all over the continent including North and East.
We know exactly where our ancestors came from due to very accurate record keeping of the slave traders. The USA was part of the British Empire and Africans from places where British forts where maintained wewe the source of these ancestors. Gambia, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ghana, Nigeria and Cameroon.
In addition, King Charles I og England married Queen Catherine of Braganza (Portugal) in 1662. This gave England access to Portugal's colonies. Hence, Guinea Bissua (Guinea Portuguesa), Angola and Mozambique became sources of African slaves.
That's why African Americans DNA test results often point to these countries.
The African American population is derived mainly from the Negro tribes that would be hated by Horners and Berbers. Although, we are part Tuareg.
The Hispanic Men are related to the Berbers through the conquistadors where the E-M81 Y chromosome is found throughout Latin America.
Presumably as a result of its old world distribution, this sub-clade is found throughout Latin America, for example 6.1% in Cuba (8 out of 132, Mendizabal et al. (2008)) and 5.4% in Brazil (Rio de Janeiro), (6 out of 112, Silva et al. (2006)). According to Silva et al. the presence of chromosomes of North African origin in Latin America can be explained by "a Portuguese-mediated influx, since this haplogroup reaches a frequency of 5.6% in Portugal quite similar to the frequency found in Rio de Janeiro (5.4%) among European contributors.". M81 has also been found among Hispanic men from California and Hawaii in the United States at 2.4% (7 out of 295, Paracchini et al. (2003)).
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
One more thing Wally,
Angelina Jolie is not pure White. Her grandma is Native American and I know African American women who look like Angelina Jolie.
esepcially this comment... "While experts can't say with certainty what Cleopatra looked like, physically speaking, Jolie is probably not the most historically accurate choice. For starters, she's probably too tall, beautiful and skinny, according to what historians now know."
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Red, White, and Blue + Christian,
I think that you're making things up at random...
The African American term is 'ofay' (oh.faa), at least in my neighborhood, and NOT ol' fay, ...
The English term 'fay' as a noun means - a small being, human in form, playful and having magical powers; derogatory? It makes about as much sense as 'ofay' being pidgin for 'foe'...
Then you proceed to challenge the obvious...
quote: Dana Marniche, ...has said that she believes the African American population is descended from Africans from all over the continent including North and East.
Any serious student of African history will know that dana is absolutely correct! It is so patently obvious that it is a given...
"Given that Africans have roamed the continent for thousands of years and that such migrations might have been northward, southward, eastward or westward, the origin of any group of people in Africa may be very uncertain. Any African might have relatively originated from anywhere in Africa. The cited origin might as well be what could be remembered about the recent past and not the ultimate origin. For example, the Wolof name for a king is Fari which is very similar to the word Faro of ancient Egypt and may point to the Egyptian heritage of the Wolof in West Africa. The Egyptian word for the highest god and righteous father was Ra and the Setwana word for father is also Ra."
---
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Red, White, and Blue + Christian,
I think that you're making things up at random...
The African American term is 'ofay' (oh.faa), at least in my neighborhood, and NOT ol' fay, ...
The English term 'fay' as a noun means - a small being, human in form, playful and having magical powers; derogatory? It makes about as much sense as 'ofay' being pidgin for 'foe'...
Then you proceed to challenge the obvious...
quote: Dana Marniche, ...has said that she believes the African American population is descended from Africans from all over the continent including North and East.
Any serious student of African history will know that dana is absolutely correct! It is so patently obvious that it is a given...
---
Who said I believed that? Umm ... I think somone may have taken my words out of context. Nevertheless, dna shows that black Americans are RELATED to people from all over the continent of Africa as well as to peoples outside the continent- Europeans, Madagascarans, Yemenites, Siddi and East Indians. A lot of blacks of course have Watutsi and other east African origins. It really depends on what part of the U.S. one comes from and when one's ancestors were brought.
It is also a historically documented fact that along with Nilo-Saharan and Niger Congo speaking groups such as Mande or Bantu and Angolans many other groups from Senegambia including Tuareg, Kunta, Trarza and Fulani or "Moors" were brought to America with the Portuguese in the earliest period because of their own battles amongst themselves and falling into prisoner of war status. There are plenty of books written on this subject. A fact that just a few celebrities in black America have gotten their dna analysed and out of those few a number have evidence of Fulani and Tuareg blood shoes that the latter have definitely made an impress in the black American population, if not the largest.
All of the latter people live in North Africa and the Sahel as far as I am aware, as well as as far as south as Cameroon and Burkina Faso/Upper Volta . They also extend far east into the countries of Chad and Sudan. So I do not know think there is any argument about that. That doesn't necessarily mean black Americans didn't come mostly from or through West Africa.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
I never make things up. I check and check and check. That's why I've only done 700+ posts.
You are speaking to a person who has heard the original Gullah/slang/Ebonics from real speakers. You are speaking to someone who hangs in Harlem and goes to the Schomburg and other Black libraries for fun.
You hyear?
The ports of departure for the Translantic Slave trade were along the coast of Africa from Senegal to Angola and a few on the old Swahili coast. The peoples may have originated elsewhere, but the came from the coasts.
The Berbers were not enslaved. The were the slavers and Europeans found them to be weak and scrawny compared to the more muscular Negroes.
Red, White, and Blue + Christian + Benjamin Franklin,
from the Urban Dictionary from which you selectively picked the sole and obscure "ol' fay"...
1. ofay A word of unspecified West African origin that refers to "white" people. It's commonly used in the American South but has fallen out of favor as "White Devil" has assumed prominence. "This ofay at my job is jealous of my ability to get the job done faster and better than him. But he can't help his ofay ways."
2. ofay disparaging term for a Caucasian. "You big-haired trashy macaroni-and-cheese-eatin' ofay bitch!"
3. ofay Insult to a white person from a black person meaning punk, cracker, bitch. "That ofey is pissing me off"
4. ofay dirrogutory term for white folk. "shut up white boy, cracker, ofay."
5. ofay Still a mystery as to the origin of the word. It almost certainly isn't Gullah of West African. It almost certainly isn't from "foe" in Pig Latin as that form of "Pig Latin" didn't really start until 1920 and "ofay" was around from at least the 1890s. It usually wasn't used in a derogatory way about whites, but rather just as a matter of fact expression. Quite often used in early Black newspapers in columns written about theatrical performers and that the "ofay" owned the theater in which the Black performers, er uh, performed.
6. ofay Hostile term for white people. According to Edward Ball in The Sweet Hell Inside (a history of a mixed-race Charleston SC family), pig Latin for "foe." Dates to at least early 19th century.
"Who invited the ofay?" -- Autobiography of Malcolm X cracker peckerwood honky honkey whitey o-fay white devil
7. ofay punk,cracker,bitch look at that ofay
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African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
African slaves were commodities held and sold by Africans, and like all resources, were obtained as far east as the Swahili coast, including Madagascar (Malagasy)...
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
These ethnic groups, once in America, became merged into a SINGLE ethnicity: African-American.
This process continues even to this day: Harry Belafonte (from Jamaican/Martinican ); Sidney Poitier (from Bahama); Colin Powell (from Jamaicans); "Good Times" Esther Rolle (from Bahamians); Rihanna (from Barbados); Iman (from Somali); Hakeem Olujawon (from Nigeria)...
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African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and genetic... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
As a honorary Amhara (Habesh),
I find this statement interesting but slightly fanciful:
"We all heard the stories about who is a popular Habesh celebrity and who is not. Some roomers say Kobe Bryant is a Habesh and some mothers gossip that Obama is a Habesha, hoping that one day one of us will stand together with others on top to inspire us as a role model. “Fishich kibil kelo Habesha yimesel, Iwe Habesha ko’yu” lol" by Esayas Gebremedhin, London 24.11.2009
This is clearly a case of ethnic subjectivism; an attempt to define the external world through the limitations of 'my group.' African Americans are the descendants of Africans from all over Africa, including indirectly via Kemet, the Habesh.
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Comparing and contrasting some words in
Amharic ● Mdu Ntr
ሰው ~ man (n.) säw ● sa
ሴት ~ lady (n.) set ● se.t
ጥቁር ~ black (adj.) T'qur ● keme
ነጭ ~ white man (n.) näCH' ● Deroshi - red one
ግብጽ ~ Egypt (n.) gbTS' ● Gebtu - principal city of the Upper Egyptian state of Harawî
...
The Habesh were, without doubt, a significant ethnicity in the Kememou population, but were NOT the founders of Kemet anymore than were the Akan; it was created by the settlement of a multiplicity of African peoples, but...
Political Unification was the crucial component
If you study Narmer's tablet, it is clear that the unification of Ancient Egypt was not brought about through different African ethnic groups coming together peacefully - there was no Kumbaya moment; No, Ancient Egypt was united through armed struggle - military force - a protracted military struggle predating Narmer but culminating with his victory over the heterogeneous African nations dwelling within the Nile Valley and Delta regions...
After this victory, there were no long millenniums of political and ethnic harmony; Egyptian history is replete with struggles, even though it had achieved the ideological goal of creating a national Egyptian identity...
There are lessons in the formation of these African Civilizations; Kemet, Kush, Khami: Zimbabwe, Ghana, Mali, Songhay which are instructive in the context of modern day Africa...
a) all of these civilizations were multi-ethnic and came into existence through armed struggle...
b) are you not at all familiar with Shaka and the formation of the Zulu nation? Again, armed struggle...
and a great leap forward is made when the African stops thinking in the terms of European colonialism. For example, one speaks of African nationalism, ethnic chauvinism as if it were an exclusive African phenomenon when, if you received a Western education, you should know that European "tribalism" is just as widespread and destructive; there is no distinction between German genocide and Rwandan genocide...
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
The Amhara are mostly Christian like most African Americans. So, we share the same religion. That's good.
But, I heard that the Amhara like African Americans if they are "light enough". The really must like Bob Marley who was half English.
We must treat people equally. I don't want to cause division.
I will talk more later on this, We have a problem in NYC.
Wally, you and Myra W. and Dr. Winters and I may be related. Our tribe is African American. That's good enough.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
As an honorary Amhara (Habesh),
I find the following statement interesting but slightly fanciful:
"We all heard the stories about who is a popular Habesh celebrity and who is not. Some roomers say Kobe Bryant is a Habesh and some mothers gossip that Obama is a Habesha, hoping that one day one of us will stand together with others on top to inspire us as a role model. “Fishich kibil kelo Habesha yimesel, Iwe Habesha ko’yu” lol" by Esayas Gebremedhin, London 24.11.2009
This is clearly a case of ethnic subjectivism; an attempt to define the external world through the limitations of 'my group.' African Americans are the descendants of Africans from all over Africa, including indirectly via Kemet, the Habesh.
▬▬▬▬▬▬
Comparing and contrasting some words in
Amharic ● Mdu Ntr
ሰው ~ man (n.) säw ● sa
ሴት ~ lady (n.) set ● se.t
ጥቁር ~ black (adj.) T'qur ● keme
ነጭ ~ white man (n.) näCH' ● Deroshi - red one
ግብጽ ~ Egypt (n.) gbTS' ● Gebtu - principal city of the Upper Egyptian state of Harawî
...
The Habesh were, without doubt, a significant ethnicity in the Kememou population, but were NOT the founders of Kemet anymore than were the Akan; Kemet was created by the settlement of a multiplicity of African peoples, but...
Political Unification was the crucial component
If you study Narmer's tablet, it is clear that the unification of Ancient Egypt was not brought about through different African ethnic groups coming together peacefully - there was no Kumbaya moment; No, Ancient Egypt was united through armed struggle - military force - a protracted military struggle predating Narmer but culminating with his victory over the heterogeneous African nations dwelling within the Nile Valley and Delta regions...
After this victory, there were no long millenniums of political and ethnic harmony; Egyptian history is replete with struggles, even though it had achieved the ideological goal of creating a national Egyptian identity...
There are lessons in the formation of these African Civilizations; Kemet, Kush, Khami: Zimbabwe, Ghana, Mali, Songhay which are instructive in the context of modern day Africa...
a) all of these civilizations were multi-ethnic and came into existence through armed struggle...
b) are you not at all familiar with Shaka and the formation of the Zulu nation? Again, armed struggle...
and a great leap forward is made when the African stops thinking in the terms of European colonialism. For example, one speaks of African nationalism, ethnic chauvinism as if it were an exclusive African phenomenon when, if you received a Western education, you should know that European "tribalism" is just as widespread and destructive; there is no distinction between German genocide and Rwandan genocide...
▬▬▬▬▬▬
"Soon, however, the American (slave) trade developed. A strong, unchecked demand for brute labor in the West Indies and on the continent of America grew until it culminated in the eighteenth century, when Negro slaves were crossing the Atlantic at the rate of fifty to one hundred thousand a year. This called for slave raiding on a scale that drew upon every part of Africa--upon the west coast, the western and Egyptian Sudan, the valley of the Congo, Abyssinia, the lake regions, the east coast, and Madagascar. Not simply the degraded and weaker types of Negroes were seized, but the strong Bantu, the Mandingo and Songhay, the Nubian and Nile Negroes, the Fula, and even the Asiatic Malay, were represented in the raids." -- The Negro, by W.E.B. Du Bois, 1915
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: The Kabyles, a Berber speaking people who cluster mostly in the Atlas mountains of northern Algeria, are the descendants of Germanic vandals and were not a significant element in the trans-Atlantic slave population, so the answer to your question is NO.
Folks read what Wally wrote above.
Now let us humor Wally and pretend what Wally says is true even though he hasn't provided a shred of evidence or proof. Ok, Wally we are going believe what you say about Kabyles being descendants of Germanic vandals. <wink, wink>
Wally how does someone being a descendant of "Germanic Vandals" render them incapable of being slaves?
I thought you said there was not a phenotype for slaves. Yet here you are saying essentially that being desceded from Germans did just that.
Wally we need clarification from you.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: The Kabyles, a Berber speaking people who cluster mostly in the Atlas mountains of northern Algeria, are the descendants of Germanic vandals and were not a significant element in the trans-Atlantic slave population, so the answer to your question is NO.
Wally why would someone being from "northern Algeria" prevent them from being taken via the so called "trans-Atlantic slave trade"?
You've stated that Africans were enslaved from certain landlocked so called "sub-saharan west African" countries. Algeria is much closer to the Atlantic than those countries. In fact Algeria is right on the doorstep of the Atlantic Ocean. Yet you emphatically write "NO" they were not apart of the so called "Atlantic slave trade".
Please explain this Wally.
Wally it appears that you are engaging in eyeball pseudohistory. Is this true.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
dana marniche wrote:
quote: Argyle I think that depends on what kind of Kabyle your talking about.
People, look at what was written above.
dana marniche, are you saying there was a phenotype to slavery?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
dana marniche wrote:
quote: Some Kabyles look like they could be related to AFrican Americans
So you are saying that AAs have a singular look and phenotype.
dana marniche, I'm curious. Are you a black American negro?
I've noticed this about black American negroes. They obsessively cry and moan about racism and the lies that their former white masters have told them, yet at the same time they themselves repeat those same lies and myths as if they are factual truths.
Can you explain why black American negroes do this.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
I am against armed struggle and mass violence in general. It sounds heroic and brave. But, it the end what happens is young men die and old men get all the young girls who end up without husbands.
Armed struggle in Africa for the last few decades has meant the destruction of schools, hospitals, and other necessary institutions. Many women have and are being raped often gang-raped for hours on end.
Children aren't educated. They become child soldiers. The whole society is screwed up.
Angola, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Sudan, Chad, Congo and other states are prime examples.
A similar thing has happened in Black America with gangs and crime. Gun violence has killed too men people. Too many Black men have been killed or locked up and for what?? This has led to a great imbalance in the numbers between men and women and the women and children suffer in various ways as a result.
The manufacturers of guns worldwide benefit. They fill their pockets with money while many die.
Historically, the Slave Trade was a beneficiary of armed struggles in Africa.
I resent people from Africa whether Ethiopians or West Africans claiming Black America or “special successful” African Americans as theirs or claiming to be real African Americans when they come to the USA. Our ancestors were sold into slavery often by people in Africa. Most of the people shipped over in the Middle Passage were men. The guys back in Africa did not mind because they were polygamous and getting rid of men was a way of cutting down competition for women.
Our ancestors from Canada to Argentina went through hell in the Middle Passage and Slavery. In the USA, we had Reconstruction, Jim Crow, Lynching and a whole host of discrimination, violence directed toward us, etc. So, our ancestors struggled with extreme racism. But, we had the Civil Rights Movement and we progressed slowly over time. Now, we even have a Black (Mulatto) Prez.
We are the #1 Black ethnic group worldwide. We are like Joseph in the Bible who was sold into slavery by his brothers, yet ended in a much better position in the end. The brothers who sold Joseph into slavery had to come to him with their hands out.
I'm not an honorary anything. I am African American. My Black ancestors came to the USA on slaveships. The Africans who sold them into slavery did not know what would happen to them and they were lost to Africa. I don't owe Africa anything. My ancestors were probably Mande/Fullah, Hausa/Yoruba, Akan, Wolof, Igbo, Kanuri, Tuareg, Angolan and other West Africans. We have the DNA and overwhelming cultural proof. That does not mean I have bow down to any of these cultures. I approach them today as a African American man learning about his roots, but my I owe my life to my ancestors who were slaves and my family and what they did under extreme pressure.
My ancestors included Muslims. But, I don't have to become Muslim just because of that. It was Christianity that was the unifying force in the development of an African American community.
My skin is not jet black. My female ancestors had sex with slave masters in slavery (much of it was rape) and were impregnated by White men after slavery was over. We also mixed with Native Americans. So, we all ain't as black as midnight. The waters of the Atlantic are filled with those thrown overboard and those who jumped off slave ships, the rivers of America are filled with the blood of Black men lynched from trees and the blood of my ancestors fill the soil of the South as it fell from the lashes of whips. The Hurricanes follow the paths of slave ships having the names of slaves.
These Africans don't understand what it means to be African American. They judge people by skin color and nose shape and mouth shape. But, our Blackness is defined in struggle and fighting oppression. Light skin was often the result of rape. They don't know. It is an honor to be African American.
We did not emulate the Ancient Egyptians (the slave masters). We were like the Ancient Hebrew (slaves) who fought for freedom.
Red, White, and Blue = Loon wrote: ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------
Folks don't let the numbskull derail the discussion at hand. He never has been able to stand up to rigorous debate. Hell, even peabrained mental midgets have cleaned his clock in debates.
Now skurry back to your pre-school class. Adults are having a debate.
PS. Are you a sockpuppet of Djehuti? There's one way to find out. Do you have the dunce cap you were forced to wear on the regular from the first grade in your closet?
Or maybe you're a sockpuppet of that fruitcake A---a1? You both share the same sick fantasies and obsessions.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...here we go again...it is in the nature of the Internet
The Kindergartners, too mentally immature to engage in adult conversation and determined to bring their "Ancient Egypt" forum B.S. over to this forum...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, there are two posts of mine with questions. Everyone is waiting for you to answer them. Quit trying to run away with your tail tucked between your legs because your statements have been challenged.
Your pathetic attempts at red herrings and strawmen won't save you.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
dana marniche,
We're waiting.............................
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...creeping 'Ancient Egypt' forum sh|t...
Now, I'll add my say so,
Nicole Richie, nee Nicole Camille Escovedo was born in Berkeley, California and is the adopted daughter of the smooth singer Lionel Richie...
Her biological mother is Afro-Hispanic and she is a member of the famous Escovedo family - Coke Escovedo, Pete Escovedo, and Sheila E.; Sheila can play the hell out of the Congas, the Timbales...the girl is bad!
I watched Nia Long and Whoopi Goldberg and Ted Danson during the filming of "Made in America" on location across the street from the Oakland library (one of my frequent haunts...) - Paul Rodriguez entertained us "gawkers" during shooting breaks; Ted Danson was cool in manner and was warm to the crowd; Whoopi was all professional and responded to the crowd only once when a little girl yelled out "Hi, Whoopi" to which Whoopi responded "Hello, baby." Nia Long appeared reserved (insecure?) and fine!!! Will Smith was across town shooting scenes at Tech high school - rumors of his interaction with the crowds were not very flattering...
Now what this has to do with the relationship between Ancient Egyptians and African Americans escapes me completely... Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
***note when argyle104 says "we're waiting" it means only him is doing the waiting
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...creeping 'Ancient Egypt' forum sh|t...
Now, I'll add my say so,
Nicole Richie, nee Nicole Camille Escovedo was born in Berkeley, California and is the adopted daughter of the smooth singer Lionel Richie...
Her biological mother is Black and she is a member of the famous Escovedo family - Coke Escovedo, Pete Escovedo, and Sheila E.; Sheila can play the hell out of the Congas, the Timbales...the girl is bad!
♫ She wants to lead the Glamorous Life She don't need a man's touch She wants to lead the Glamorous Life
Without love It ain't much...♫
I watched Nia Long and Whoopi Goldberg and Ted Danson during the filming of "Made in America" on location across the street from the Oakland library (one of my frequent haunts...) - Paul Rodriguez entertained us "gawkers" during shooting breaks; Ted Danson was cool in manner and was warm to the crowd; Whoopi was all professional and responded to the crowd only once when a little girl yelled out "Hi, Whoopi" to which Whoopi responded "Hello, baby." Nia Long appeared reserved (insecure?) and fine!!! Will Smith was across town shooting scenes at Tech high school - rumors of his interaction with the crowds were not very flattering...
Now what this has to do with the relationship between Ancient Egyptians and African Americans escapes me completely... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
------------------------------------------ note when argyle104 says "we're waiting" it means only him is doing the waiting ------------------------------------------
no it means we're waiting, because everyone reading the thread is waiting to see if someone is man enough to prove, backup, and defend his statements or will tuck tail like a rodent and run.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Wally,
Jet, Ebony, etc show pics of what African Americans look like for those who don't know. THere will be many reading this who are never post and they will live all around the world.
OurGal104,
I know that you are retarded. You must have been called "Dunce" many times in your youth.
I have said many times that Tuareg and Hausa are AfroAsiatic languages spoken in West Africa and that these are ethnic groups that African Americans derive from.
The Tuareg are a mixed group. They partly originate from the Central Sahara and also Mauretania, Morocco and Algeria. Moreover, they have kept the authentic Berber culture alive.
That's why I have asked a while ago Southern academics if Tifinar writing has been found on African American graves or slave houses. They don't know!
Y-Dna haplogroups, passed on exclusively through the paternal line, were found at the following frequencies in Kabylie : E1b1b1b (E-M81) (47.36%), R1*(xR1a) (15.78%) (later tested as R1b3/R-M269 (now R1b1b2)[5]), J1 (15.78%), F*(xH, I,J2,K) ( 10.52% ) and E1b1b1c (E-M123) (10.52%)[6]. The North African pattern of Y-chromosomal variation (including both E1b1b and J haplogroups) is largely of Neolithic origin.
MtDNA Haplogroups, by contrast, inherited only from the mother, were found at the following frequencies : H (3.65%), U* (29.03% with 17.74% U6), preHV (3.23%), preV (4.84%), V (4.84%), T* (3.23%), J* (42%), L1 (3.23%), L3e (4.84%), X (3.23%), M1 (3.23%), N (1.61%) and R (3.23%). The mtDNA makeup of Kabyles is : 70.96% general Western Eurasian (H, J, U, T, K, X, V, N and I), 20.97% specific Eurasian-North African (U6, M1) and 8.07% sub-Saharan gene flow (L)[citation needed].
African American and Kabyle DNA matches along R1b, E-M123, U6,H,T,M1 and L.
again U6 mtDNA is found as far south as Cameroon in the Bamileke that Wally was talking about.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Wally, ...Jet, Ebony, etc show pics of what African Americans look like for those who don't know.
Ooo Wee, didja just arrive from another Planet?!?
What person on earth does not know what an African American looks like???
What recluse haven't seen The President of the United States Barack Obama and his beautiful wife Michelle; or Chris Rock, Prince, Whoopi, the people at the office, ...
What is the name of your Planet?
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Some people around the world are not familiar with African Americans as a group. They know a celebrity here and there, but don't assume everyone knows everything. We are "ambassadors" of a culture. This is one reason I am careful not to use curse words or type in an outrageous manner.
Some Chinese said they did not know Blacks were in the USA, when they found out Barack H. Obama won the last election.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: ...Some Chinese said they did not know Blacks were in the USA, when they found out Barack H. Obama won the last election.
Have you ever watched the Jay Leno show and the segment "Jaywalkin"? There are people in America who cannot identify the countries on either the northern or the southern side of our borders! Ignorance is not the monopoly of anyone and there exists in every culture a segment of society that is simply simple...
and you are simply spinning your wheels when you try to convey to them a cogent thought! How can anyone but a simpleton think that a duly elected president of the United States not be an American born citizen? You are free, as you know to deal with these loonies...
Of course there are some Chinese, isolated in their village, who know nothing of the outside world, who know nothing of their and the Soviet Union's propaganda of the mistreatment of African Americans under Capitalism (it's valid)- it's history, study it...
The Chinese government is so aware of the presence of Africans (Black men) in their society and their attractiveness from Chinese women that it became an official edict that a Black man could only have one Chinese woman...
The majority of the people in the world and on this forum are NOT simpletons and are not "Jaywalkers" - deal with that!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Folks Red, White, and Blue + Christian is what happens to a brain that belongs to an entertainment flunky.
Don't be an entertainment flunky or you too will have a brain like Red, White, and Blue + Christian.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally, I'll ask again the following:
How does someone being a descendant of "Germanic Vandals" render them incapable of being slaves?
Scholars don't run when asked questions Wally.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; from Ancient Egypt to beyond and before...
Ancient Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculpture is that of a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Akhet - a visual statement, despite the defacement by the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...
Horemakhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - le grand Nègre
Following the social voyage of a word:
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
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Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
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...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
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(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
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The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, Wally wrote the below:
quote: The Kabyles, a Berber speaking people who cluster mostly in the Atlas mountains of northern Algeria, are the descendants of Germanic vandals and were not a significant element in the trans-Atlantic slave population, so the answer to your question is NO.
Wally, how does someone being a descendant of "Germanic Vandals" render them incapable of being slaves?
Wally?.....................................
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; indirectly from Eritrea to Kemet to West Africa; Africans profiteering in the selling of human captives/victims to others...
Eritrean ladies
...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: African American ancestry; indirectly from Eritrea to Kemet to West Africa; Africans profiteering in the selling of human captives/victims to others...
Wally what does the above mean? Are you saying there was a slave trade to the Americas involving Eritreans being brought over as slaves?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...some more Eritrean women; change their attire and they can be Amharic, Ancient Egyptians, African Americans - same family... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally you're a pathetic loon who makes things up and everyone can see it. You don't backup anything you say because as was said before crazy, delusional people don't have facts and evidence.
I see why you run when asked questions about your lunatic statements.
Wally you need to go see a doctor who requires his patients to lie on a laze-boy.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
You're done Wally. You see Wally the reason you are so easy to defeat is because I post facts and historical truths. You on the other post race myths that you picked up from your white masters from "the school system" and the entertainment industry.
Folks as you can see from the links above, the negro concept was a ruse that was used as an excuse to enslave anyone from anywhere.
Just claim they were part negro.
Wally and Red, White and Fool: Tell Lie Vision, the Ray Dee Oh, and books by race loons or their black lackeys ain't real history.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally you say that at least 30 ethnic groups from your fantasy "west Africa", were for over 450 years taken as slaves to the tune of at a minimum 12,000,000 people.
Wally explain how that works because it doesn't make any sense. What ethnic group could have accomplished such a task as taking the most valuable asset of those ethnic groups, namely its own people.
Wally or anyone else, name one ethnic group who was going around capturing all of these people from your list of 30+ ethnic groups.
Wouldn't those 30+ groups have banned together and formed an alliance to defend their people?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Er um Wally, I thought you said they all came from "west" Africa.
---------------------------------- "Turnbull and his group, made up of adventurers, indentured servants and slaves from Spain, Italy and Greece, landed in what is now New Smyrna Beach in 1768." ----------------------------------
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Udjai, Ran.i Wally. En en anok Sa bu buru...mer.i betuke Sa! Oh, mer.ek Seinu??? En en mer.i!
which means in English...
"Greetings, My name is Wally. (and) I am not a bad guy (because) I love watermelon Man! Oh, do you like doctors??? I don't like them!"
...comparing and contrasting the English bible and the Coptic bible...
Here's an excert from the "standard" KJV:
The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's Let him kiss me with the kisses of his lips for Love is more better than wine... I am black, but comely O ye daughters of Jerusalem (black) as the tents of Kedar (black) as the curtains of Solomon Gaze not upon me because I am black...
Here's the critical Egyptian Coptic version's excert:
(English: But as for me I am a Black...that I am a Black, I am)
Coptic : Anok dé ang ouKamê...Je ang ouKamê anok
Ancient Egyptian: Anok dé ang ouKamê...Je ang ouKamê anok
The key element here is the "ou" which precedes the noun and how it is translated in a sentence to mean "a."
Examples:
ouNoute = "a god"
ouRomé = "a man"
ouKamê = "a Black (person)"
...
If you study the Western texts of the ancient biblical documents - Bible means books - you can readily, if you are amply prepared, able to spot the subterfuges:
a) The Catholic bible edits the text "I am a Black" to "I am dark"
b) The English (you know, King James) edits "I am a Black (and) Comely (beautiful)" to "I am Black but comely/beautiful" and everybody who speaks and understands the "king's English" knows the difference between "and" and "but"
...
- Just some notes Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; indirectly from Eritrea to Kemet to West Africa; ...change their attire and they can be Amharic, Ancient Egyptians, or African Americans - same family...
Eritrean ladies ...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Egyptians, Sudanese, and African Americans... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote:
quote: African American ancestry; indirectly from Eritrea to Kemet to West Africa;
Wally we know that Eritrea is a modern nation and Kemet was an ancient nation. However could you tell us what "West Africa" is? Since there is no nation called "West Africa" could you specifically tell us what it is? If it is a collection of nations, then tell us which nations make up "West Africa"?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally why would the ancestry be "indirectly" from Eritrea? Please explain.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Wallysearch Promotions sponsored this thraed
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Most confused individuals seem to want to put Africans into neat little rigid compartments as if Africans (indeed all humans) are not a mobile group of peoples, rather than accept the historical reality that western Africans have moved to the east; eastern Africans have moved both westward and southward. The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes; how did they end up so far north? The Batutsi of Rwanda and Burundi did not always inhabit those territories. When the Europeans began to settle in the area of south Africa, the Bantu migrations were still pushing southwards...
This approach to African history; of stagnant ethnicites, and of non-migrations is not only simplistic and immature, it is completely wrong. Human civilization is one continuous and collective historical process, where no one people, in isolation, creates a culture, unaware of the knowledge developed by others.
If I were engaged in a paternity suit and I wanted to determine whether or not the child was mine, I would demand a DNA test. But, there is NO DNA test that can tell me the extent and the individuality of all of my African (and non-African) ancestors:
Prior to DNA, blood tests were a less reliable indicator of parantage, but useful. Blood tests also showed that West Africans and Upper Egyptians had the same blood types; but neither blood tests nor DNA can tell me, or anyone else the various peoples that came together to generate me!
If I were to trace my ancestry to "Kunta Kente" in the region that is now within the country of Senegal, I would not be so naive as to believe that he is my "Adam" but merely only one of them; this reality/objective truth seems to go over a lot of folks' head...
(Aside Note: I also recall reading an old anthropological text in the stacks of the library which gave the ancestral lineages of mostly European groups, and was astounded to find that much of the ancestry of the German nationality was Asian, mostly Hun (and hence the offensive term for a German - Kraut); and this was written long before DNA research! I don't think it was a book by Ashley Montague, but maybe it was, but a prominent anthropologist from the 1950's; there's a wealth of info in the old texts, many of which have "walked" from the library. But, I have read a lot of books, so I'm not sure of the source for this... )
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the American slave trade combined these various African groups, who then became African-Americans. The Ancient Egyptian lineage of African Americans is both genetic and historical and has nothing to do solely with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks. Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally wrote: ------------------------------------ African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley ------------------------------------
Well according to your logic Wally can't west Europeans say they have ancestry to the Ancient Egyptians?
Why then are you so angry when west Europeans claim they are related to the ancient Egyptians?
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley.
Dubious. A much stronger case can be made for the Sahara, which extending across 1/3 of Africa served as a key motor of movement, via its climatic cycles. The Sahara added population to both the Nile Valley and Western Africa. It is no accident that it figures heavily in West African civilizations like Mali, and NE African civilizations like that of Egypt. See Kruper and Kroelin 2006, Climate Controlled Holocene Occupation of the Sahara: Motor of Africa's Evolution.
I think you have it backwards Wally. The Nile Valley is not the source. It is merely one recipient of a broad distribution from the Sahara, including the time period when said Sahara did cover 1/3 of Africa. Backstopping the Sahara of course would be developments further south and in East Africa that laid the foundation for initial human population distributions (Tishkoff 2000, 2009).
"African-Americans don't "need" the Nile Valley to provide any origin points. It is the extended Sahara that is much more the central base, and behind that, East Africa and other parts south. And if as you say: "The Ancient Egyptians originated, like most Africans, in the regions of the Great Lakes;" then your own alternative location is the Great Lakes, not the Nile Valley. I think you have fallen into the diffusionist trap of trying to credit too many things and peoples as somehow originating in Egypt. Egypt is an extremely important African civilization, developed by indigenous tropical African peoples, but in terms of origin it is nothing special. It takes it genesis alongside other tropical products of the Sahara and Eastern Africa. We need to place Egypt in its proper African context, not make it out to be some sort of special super- headquarters of African civilization and wisdom before which all must bow down. Super it was and unique in many respects, but it is no special headquarters.
Eurocentrics try to make ancient Egypt out to be some sort of special case, divorced from its groundings in tropical Africa. Hence nothing advanced occurs in Africa unless it was "diffused" from Egypt. We have to guard against this trap. Ultimately, ancient Egypt is just another African location, in an African context, developed by just another set of indigenous tropical African peoples.
You are right on one count though Wally. African- Americans, being a tropical people, are more related to other tropical peoples in Africa like the ancient Egyptians, than to Europeans or "Middle Easterners."
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Elementary Reality of the African American's Ethnic origins
1) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Akan of Ghana
2) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Yoruba of Nigeria
3) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Wolof of Senegal
4) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Fulani of the Sahel
6) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Tuareg of the Sahel
7) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Kushites of Sudan vis-a-vis 1-6
8) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Egyptians of Egypt vis-a-vis 1-6
The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
Note: this list represents only the predominantly African ethnic components; the minority European and Native American ethnic components are not included, but does not mean they aren't there...
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Elementary Reality of the African American's Ethnic origins
1) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Akan of Ghana
2) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Yoruba of Nigeria
3) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Wolof of Senegal
4) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Fulani of the Sahel
6) African Americans are the biological descendants of the Tuareg of the Sahel
7) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Kushites of Sudan vis-a-vis 1-6
8) African Americans are the biological descendants of the ancient Egyptians of Egypt vis-a-vis 1-6
The West African slave ports were merely ports of convenience for the Atlantic Slave Trade, but Africans brought and sold slaves from as far afield as Tanzania, Mozambique...
Note: this list represents only the predominantly African ethnic components; the minority European and Native American ethnic components are not included, but does not mean they aren't there...
It's my understanding that the majority of African-Americans are carriers of E3a correct? Which would rule out groups like "Nubian" for instance correct? Most slaves from the Kongo were taken to Brazil because didn't the Portuguese control that area?
I personally think it's far more helpful to narrow the list to the groups we know for sure African-Americans can claim descent from. So for instance...Mende, Songhai, Mandinka, etc would be grouped together as simply Mande-speakers. There are many other Mande-speakers in the same region such as Kpelle and Vai that I think are just as important.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
It's my understanding that the majority of African-Americans are carriers of E3a correct? Which would rule out groups like "Nubian" for instance correct? Most slaves from the Kongo were taken to Brazil because didn't the Portuguese control that area? I personally think it's far more helpful to narrow the list to the groups we know for sure African-Americans can claim descent from. So for instance...Mende, Songhai, Mandinka, etc would be grouped together as simply Mande-speakers. There are many other Mande-speakers in the same region such as Kpelle and Vai that I think are just as important.
3 things must be borne in mind when discussing West africans and other Africans:
1) the genetic bridge that links numerous Africans together across the continent regardless of how they look, (2) the hypocrisy of some who want to treat West Africans as some sort of artificial special case but do not do the same with European peoples, and (3) the tropical characteristics that link many African peoples together.
1) THE DNA BRIDGE: The PN2 transition of Haplogroup E, unites numerous African peoples across the continent, as noted by scientists below- quoted. So attempts to confine West Africans to little, stagnant racial checkboxes fail.
quotes:
"But the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse. African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other, but not with others who are phenotypically similar. The individuals in the morphologically or geographically defined 'races' are not characterized by 'private' distinct lineages restricted to each of them." (S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. "Conceptualizing human variation," Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20 (2004)
"Recall that the Horn–Nile Valley crania show, as a group, the largest overlap with other regions. A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ‘‘racially’’ different, with ‘‘racially’’ implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.." (S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679–689, 2004.)
2) HYPOCRITICAL DOUBLE STANDARDS LAID ON WEST AFRICANS, vis a vis EUROPEANS:
West Africans are Africans, just as Western Europeans still remain Europeans. Few are running around saying Italians aren't Europeans because they have DNA patterns that vary from say Swedes. Nor are many denying Italians the right to call themselves Europeans, just as Swedes call themselves Europeans. Haplogrup R1b for example is high in northern Europe (80-90%) but drops to 20% when it comes to places like Southern Italy.
Likewise other clinal distributions occur across Europe, incorporating the Balkans, Middle Eastern DNA markers, the extreme northwest (Finland), the Russian zone, and the Basque zone of Iberia and France. All of these people are still considered one European whole. Why is it though that some have a double standard when it comes to Africa?
Using the approach of some "biodiversity" proponents we could say that Italians aren't "really" Europeans because they are some other haplogroup variant. Likewise Greeks aren't "really" Europeans because they show clear evidence of some sub-Saharan African genes. It is inconsistent to run a racial checkbox game with Africans and say they are "mixed" because of the presence of some "Near Eastern" haplogroups, but remain silent on the Greeks and not likewise label them as "mixed" when they show sub-Saharan markers. If Somalis are to be called "mixed" why isnt the academy doing the same with Greeks? And if some haplogroups can be spoken of as 'European' or 'Eurasian' or 'Middle Eastern' based on their frequency in an area, then likewise Hapogroup E which takes in 70% of the African continent as well as U6 which is found heavily in North Africa should be referred to as "African" without the current double standards in labeling that conveniently seem to arise when Africans are involved.
Nubians are Africans just as Fulani are Africans, and they can label themselves as one whole, just as Swedes, Basques, Finns, Baltics, and Italians still consider themselves Europeans despite their differences genetically.
The same goes for languages. EUrope has several language groups- the Indo-European language family; another major family is the Finno-Ugric. The Turkic family also has several European members, while the North Caucasian language family is important in the southeastern extremity of geographical Europe. But all the peoples therein are still considered European not members of some other "race". ----------------------------------------------------------------------
3) TROPICAL CHARACTERISTICS LINK NUMEROUS AFRICAN PEOPLES
African-Americans don't need anyone's "clearance" or "permission" to study Africa, comment on Africa, or to consider themselves as derived from Africa. As a tropical people, they share common characteristics with other tropical peoples of Africa like ancient Egyptians or Nubians to a greater extent than whites or "Middle Easterners."
I believe Wally is wrong in his claim that African Americans derive from Egyptians. There is little hard empirical support to show any direct migration. However he is correct that there are things that tie African peoples together, and can show the following with plenty of evidence:
(a) African peoples share DNA links bridging across the continent
b) In terms of tropical characteristics, he can show how African peoples link with one another and are different from cold-climate peoples.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova wrote: ...I believe Wally is wrong in his claim that African Americans derive from Egyptians. There is little hard empirical support to show any direct migration...
Please Sir, do not argue with YOURSELF and use my name as a subterfuge:
a) I, Wally, have never said anything so ridiculous; such as African Americans migrating from Egypt to the Goree Island in order to board ships to America!
b) What I have said on this topic, along with presenting tons of empirical evidence, that African Americans, my people, are the descendants of most of the peoples inhabiting the African continent as a result of the Great Holocaust of Slavery...
c) And some of you here should refrain from the misuse of DNA science in order to make a false point.
I have, on this thread, used my own self as an example as how to approach the study of history (Everybody can and should use this method)
1) My parental ancestry is African American from the state of Louisiana
2) There are written records and archives of African Americans in Louisiana
--an example of some Louisiana; -- excerpt from "Africans in colonial Louisiana: the development of Afro-Creole culture in the Eighteenth Century" By Gwendolyn Midlo Hall
The burden upon you is to prove that my ancestry is not Mande and Wolof and Serer,etc - then you have to prove that these peoples never lived in the Nile Valley AND the fertile Sahara... Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
^^The question is not your ancestry. The question is the following claim that you made- quote:
"African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley.." [endquote]
You have offered little hard evidence of any migrations of ancient Egyptians from the Nile Valley to West Africa, and whether such migrations, if they did take place, had any significant impact in producing bulk of the West Africans that suffered from the Slave Trade. The burden of proof is still on you. In what years did such migrations from the Nile Valley to West Africa take place for example, and what are the DNA and other elements of proof for said migrations? Is E3a among West Africans for example due to Nile Valley migrants? What cranial evidence do you have? What limb proportion evidence do you have showing the claimed migrations? Please cite credible scholarship to support your claims.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: ^^The question is not your ancestry. The question is the following claim that you made- quote:
"African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley.." You have offered little hard evidence of any migrations of ancient Egyptians from the Nile Valley to West Africa...
Say man, you're just pissin' into the wind...and c'mon with this R2D2 - E3A - C3P0 crap!
Now, start again, an read from the beginning of this post all of the evidence that I have provided; you can disagree all you want but don't camouflage your disbelief by saying that it's not "hard evidence"...
Repeating some evidence...
...much of which has been demonstrated on this very thread... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Move it up.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^ausar says you can't bump up your own posts over and over on a self promotional ego trip
this is supposed to be a forum, a dialog If this thread is so great let other people bump it instead of artificially boosting it with Wally juice
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the American slave trade combined these various African groups, who then became African-Americans. The Ancient Egyptian lineage of African Americans is both genetic and historical and has nothing to do solely with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.
Our Wolof heritage
...excerpt from the above Guide...
◄ ►
The Bamiléké of Cameroun - another African-American ancestor...from the banks of the Nile, to Cameroun, to America...
Bami ruler
The Egyptian origin of the Bamiléké
The ancestry of the Bamiléké people can be traced back to Egypt...
The Bamiléké are a group of the *Baladis, who are said to be the real native people of Egypt. It is believed that the Bamiléké went down the Nile, crossed many rivers and cliffs using extraordinary mystical means. They crossed the kingdoms of Ouaddai and Kanem and reached the Lake Chad region, after several moments of settlements. Their long journey from Egypt to the Tikar region, where they settled for long, lasted over two centuries (9-11th century).
--- "Bamiléké belongs to the Mbam-Nkam group of Graffi languages, whose attachment to the Bantu division is still disputed. While some consider it a Bantu or semi-Bantu language, others prefer to include Bamiléké in the Niger-Congo group. Bamiléké is not a unique language. It seems that Bamiléké Medumba stems from ancient Egyptian and is the root language for many other Bamiléké variants."
"The Bamiléké are part of the Bantu peoples and occupy western regions of Cameroon. Tribal history gives the Bamiléké (an) Egyptian origin, migration from the banks of the Nile in the 9th century..."
*Baladi = local, indigenous, native; refers to the “real Egyptian”, or “Masri Asil”, as opposed to the western occupiers and westernized Egyptians, known as “Afrang”.
The Bamileke are part of the Bantu people. Historically, the Bamun and the Bamileke were united. The founder of this group (Nchare) was the younger brother of the founder of Bafoussam. The Bamileke are a group of the Baladis, the real native people of Egypt. All peoples come from Egypt, but the fact that the Bamileke are the last people to leave the banks of the Nile (9th century) gives them an unfathomable strength in every respect, as well as an incredible conservation of the civilization of their Egypt-based ancestors --(Dieudonné Toukam, "Histoire et anthropologie du peuple bamiléké", Paris,2008 & 2010)
a Bamiléké Princess Gillette Leuwat was born a Bamiléké Princess in Cameroon.The different facets of the culture of Cameroon (aka; Kamerun, Cameroun...) are present in the language, literature, music, art, religion and the cuisine of the West African nation.
◄ ►
The origin of ancient Egyptian language Bamileke: Linguistic and genetic kinship between the Medu Neter and Medu Mba - by Mandjudja Nguegang
Bamileke
The Bamileke are the brothers of the group BAmoun who decided to cross the river "NUN", despite their knowledge of the myth of ancient Egypt that said that "black water brings chaos, misfortune bad luck. Many facts show that they crossed the river of the black water anyway because they would not be caught by Muslims.
Unlike Bamoun, who identified the God Amon, the Bamileke are identified by their origin, that of ancient Upper Egypt.
The figurative meaning of the Bamileke is: descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The word "Bamileke" is a modern name, for easy reading in Western languages.
BA 'Mieh Lah Ke' is the name of the nearest original guttural pronunciation.
The literal meaning of the word "Bamileke" by lts sound is as follows:
BA ': Those (to designate the geographical origin of someone)
Mieh: brothers
Lah: country, region
Ke ': Up, which is up a place, a region of land.
ln speaking of a country or region in Africa, it is of Upper Egypt.
Remember that the ancient Egyptians did not call their country "Egypt." They called their country, "High Country" and "Low Country" or KEMET for modern Egyptologists.
We are justified in thinking through the Bamileke we can say that Khe'Mieh = KEMET. This would therefore imply that KEMET means: The brothers of the High Country, or siblings of the upper region, referring to Upper Egypt. Up to the ancient Egyptians was down (in the current understanding), and designated the top down. Up in the understanding of ancient Egyptian therefore designated the South. We know they have always designated the South as the cardinal point of all their original culture and source of the current meaning of Kemet meaning "the land of the blacks, or the country of those who are black, burned"...
KEMET meaning "brethren of the high country or brothers of the Upper Region, Upper Egypt, more consistent with the spirit and thinking of ancient Egyptians. Recall that a former Egyptian word as an African word has several meanings, therefore the spelling of "Khe" has several meanings and interpretations depending on context.
Khe also means Bamileke: burned, black, etc.. ...
Upper Egypt at the time was the location of all the powers of KEMET.
So put together by its sound, the literal meaning of Bamileke means: The brothers who come from countries Upper, Upper Egypt (southern Egypt)...
◄ ►
African American ancestry: the Akan
The Akan were not only an influential and ruling ethnicity in Ancient Egypt but in Ancient Sumer as well...
...African migrations from the ancient Nile river valley to Beautiful Ghana; Akans (Fantis, Ashantis, Twi, ...), Ga, Ewe, ...
Note: Akan, Fante, Twi, Oromo...; simply means "people" in these contemporary languages... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote: from Mandjudja Nguegang: The figurative meaning of the Bamileke is: descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The word "Bamileke" is a modern name, for easy reading in Western languages.
BA 'Mieh Lah Ke' is the name of the nearest original guttural pronunciation.
The literal meaning of the word "Bamileke" by lts sound is as follows:
BA ': Those (to designate the geographical origin of someone)
Mieh: brothers
Lah: country, region
Ke ': Up, which is up a place, a region of land.
ln speaking of a country or region in Africa, it is of Upper Egypt... So put together by its sound, the literal meaning of Bamileke means: The brothers who come from countries Upper, Upper Egypt (southern Egypt)...
Here is the Mdu Ntr that supports Mandjudja Nguegang's statements:
Be; Ba; Bu = people, those, all of them
Me, Mi = brothers
Rehu, Lehu = men, mankind, people
Ka, Ke, Kau = high, elevated, upper
A literal translation of Bamiléké in the Mdu Ntr would be:
"Those brothers (of) the Upper (Southern) people"
and virtually every African American has Bamiléké ancestry... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally instead of running with your tail tucked between your legs, why don't you answer the questions I've asked you.
Everybody is watching you run. Thusly, no one is taking any of the lunacy you post seriously.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry continued...
The Agni (also Anyi, Anyin) people; a branch of the Akan nationality. A people inhabiting both the Ivory Coast and Ghana.
Jesse Jackson made a Crown Prince of the Agni
Michael Jackson made a Crown Prince of the Agni
Origin of the Agni Akans; by C.A. Diop Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Budge translates this as "a form of Osiris", to which I think is a hedge on what should be "the ethnicity of Osiris"...
On, Oni, An, Ani
Osiri Ani = "Osiri the Anu man" Ausar Ani = "Ausar the Anu man"
... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Is Jesse Jackson mixed?
He doesn't look like the rest of the Agni. He looks like an Eritrean.
Wally either Jesse Jackson is mixed or some of his ancestors came over here "directly" from what is now called Eritrea.
Wally is Jesse mixed or does he represent members of the AA population that has more of their genetics from "east" Africa?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^SO WHATZ YOUR POINT?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
IronLion wrote: ----------------------------------- ^SO WHATZ YOUR POINT? -----------------------------------
Wally said that Eritreans were "indirect" ancestors of AAs.
I have seen Eritreans that look like Jesse Jackson, Kobe Bryant, Richard Pryor and a host of other AAs.
How is that possible if Eritreans are not direct ancestors of AAs?
Therefore either Jesse Jackson is mixed or Wally is wrong and Eritrea is an area that AAs have direct ancestry from.
IronLion?........... Comments?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^^because as Keita pointed out people that look similar have common ancestry but in other cases people who may look similar may have no or little common ancestry and that can be shown in DNA analysis and historical record.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
LOOOOL : )
People, the race loon some attention.
He ain't gettin mine. : )
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOL : )
People, the race loon some attention.
she ain't gettin mine. : )
instead of running with your tail tucked between your legs, why don't you answer the questions I've asked you.
Everybody is watching you run. Thusly, no one is taking any of the lunacy you post seriously.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry; from Ancient Egypt to beyond and before...
Ancient Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculpture is that of a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Akhet - a visual statement, despite the defacement by the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...
Horemakhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - le grand Nègre
Following the social voyage of a word:
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
▬▬▬▬▬▬
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
▬▬▬▬▬▬
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
▬▬▬▬▬▬
The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Following the social voyage of a word: (update)
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
▬▬▬▬▬▬
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Ofe - greedy, gluttonous man
(to)
Yoruba: ofe - a juju amulet used to protect one from danger
(to)
African American: ofay - a greedy white man
▬▬▬▬▬▬
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
▬▬▬▬▬▬
The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." Posted by White Nord (Member # 14093) on :
lol You Afrocentrics are fucking pathetic! No one in this thread has presented a single piece of evidence that their was contact or extensive cultural similarities between ancient Egypt and Western Africa.
Hell even Nubia's origin and cultur had more ties to the Arab world than it did with the rest of Africa, especially West Africa. Stop trying to kid your selves with these half ass crackpot theories about some inter African kinship between Northeast Africa and the rest of Africa.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by White Nord: lol You Afrocentrics are fucking pathetic! No one in this thread has presented a single piece of evidence that their was contact or extensive cultural similarities between ancient Egypt and Western Africa.
Hell even Nubia's origin and cultur had more ties to the Arab world than it did with the rest of Africa, especially West Africa. Stop trying to kid your selves with these half ass crackpot theories about some inter African kinship between Northeast Africa and the rest of Africa.
It's not the river in Africa... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by White Nord: lol You Afrocentrics are fucking pathetic! No one in this thread has presented a single piece of evidence that their was contact or extensive cultural similarities between ancient Egypt and Western Africa.
Hell even Nubia's origin and cultur had more ties to the Arab world than it did with the rest of Africa, especially West Africa. Stop trying to kid your selves with these half ass crackpot theories about some inter African kinship between Northeast Africa and the rest of Africa.
...and it's not the river in Africa...
The sad thing is that this type of blind idiocy can also be seen in posts, such as - "Egyptians were Nilotes, not West Africans or Horners" Please, read the nonsense and confusion there...it's sad really...
Now, ALL of the great civilizations of Ancient Africa were multi-ethnic, and especially Kemet; There were Beja, Habesha, Oromo, Akan, Tutsi, Edo, Fulani, Yoruba...peoples who were a part of this cosmopolitan civilization - hell a Twa (Dwarf, Pygmy) was a Pharaoh!
There is exhibited here by some, the need to oversimplify the evolution of Ancient Egypt; Kemet was NOT an empty vacuum, devoid of population. It was a nation which was gradually peopled from regions to its south, south-west ('Saharan'), and north-west.
There is growing evidence to further substantiate C.A. Diop's statement that Kemet, in fact Nile Valley civilization itself was due to the *clustering of Blacks in the ancient Nile Valley during antiquity. Some here can perhaps more easily grasp this by looking at modern African states - The Amhara people established the modern Ethiopian empire, now Ethiopia; the Hausa-Fulani established states in Northern Nigeria, while the Yoruba established states in Western Nigeria; the Ashanti of Ghana; and so on...and ALL of them are multi-ethnic!
▬▬▬▬▬▬
*According to their legends, the Nguni (Zulu, Swazi, Xhosa, Ndebele... ) were a people who migrated from Egypt to the Great Lakes region of sub-equatorial Central/East Africa.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Diop discussed the migration of West African people into the region from the East.
There are no West African groups which have an oral tradition of a West African origin. They all mention the presence of pygmies or small sized Blacks living in the area when they arrived.
Please correct me if you have different information.
Your information is fundamentally sound; let us add to it:
on Hausa origins:
quote: Between 500 CE and 700 CE Hausa people, who had been slowly moving west from Nubia and mixing in with the local Northern and Central Nigerian population, established a number of strong states in what is now Northern and Central Nigeria and Eastern Niger...
on Igbo origins:
quote: There is evidence that the ancestors of the Igbo people and most of their neighbors were the proto-Kwa group, which came from the African Great Lakes and Mountains of the Moon of East and Central Africa and settled at the old Sahara grasslands. It was the desertification of the Sahara that forced some of the Kwa people to migrate farther south to the north of the Niger Benue confluence and founded Nok...
and Genetics:
quote:
ScienceDaily (Aug. 5, 2008) — Stanford University researchers peering at history's footprints on human DNA have found new evidence for how prehistoric people shared knowledge that advanced civilization. Using a genetic technique pioneered at Stanford, the team found that animal-herding methods arrived in southern Africa 2,000 years ago on a wave of human migration, rather than by movement of ideas between neighbors. The findings shed light on how early cultures interacted with each other and how societies learned to adopt advances.
Human civilizations are the collective achievement of the inter-actions of humans throughout history. This reality is based upon scientific research.
The notion of Africans forming a cluster in the ancient Nile valley is based on this scientific research and not on some infantile desire to attach oneself to a over-hyped Western glorification/romantization of Ancient Egypt.
The ancestors of the Yoruba definitely formed part of this Ancient Egyptian Nilotic cluster...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
"SECRET REVEALED
THE NIGERIAN PHARAOHS, GODS AND GODDESSES OF ANCIENT EGYPT .
Edited by Wilson Ometan
PART ONE
Three events and two curiosities have prompted the search for the secrets of the history of our origin.
(1) It was the great Nnamdi Azikiwe of Africa who once said that there is a Nigerian name amongst the Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt. We found more than one. (2) My two great-mind friends in London; Dr. Femi Biko a lecturer at the Goldsmith College University and Ayo Badejo Electronic Engineer at the BBC told me that the Urhobo ethnic group of Nigeria speak the Ancient Egyptian Language; well, I found more than Urhobo and Yoruba history. (3) A Minister in the Church in a bid to disparage me once called me an Egyptian. This very Minister is a seer. Also my curiosity arises from two incidents, 1) Why was the Library in Alexandria Egypt destroyed by the Romans and 2) Why are the numerous Pharaohs mentioned in the Bible nameless. Are they hiding something? Yes they are hiding the clues to the history of a people- us. These and the seemingly lack of Archaeological facts linking us with the Ancient History of Egypt has necessitated this research. Ancient Egypt is an historical land mine which we should explode and explore. If you are looking for historical facts go to Egypt , but if you are looking for historical fiction of Egypt then go to Israel . The two phenomena walk side by side.
For the religious among us, please read this piece with an open mind. The word Pharaoh means great house and not wicked tyrant as the Bible made us believe. We never caused the exodus of the Israelites rather, we are the Israelites forced to flee our home land Egypt. Mark Millmore an English man who is an Egypt enthusiast who studied for six years the history of Egypt wrote me saying that by the time the Ancients of Egypt were perfecting their skills, the Caucasians were still in their caves. But where I don't agree with him is the notion that the languages of these civilisation has ceased to exist. The language is everywhere today in Africa . For instance, Asun in Yoruba is today used as Sunday. Ome-Ra-Mon which means Moon in Uvwie ethnic group of Urhobo when transliterated in Ancient Egyptian language means the moon is the Child of the Sun in Amon. Amon is a city in Ancient Egypt where Priests lived and presided over Cults and Temples.
A) We still have Cults or Religions of Isis of Ancient Egypt worshipped and known as Issi in Urhobo and Benin.
B) The Urhobo ethnic group still exclaim shu to the god of Air till today
C) The Yoruba ethnic group still swear to the Sun god “Ra” an Ancient Egyptian god by saying Rara in a bid to disagree to an accusation or in refusal
D) The Yoruba still say Ptah Ptah in saying everything which actually is a god name in ancient Egypt .
E) The Urhobo ethnic group still refer to the Benin Monarch as OBA RA KA till today. In Ancient Egypt the Ba means immortal, Ra means the Sun god with attributes of all-powerful, self created, supreme etc, while Ka is the personality of the body. Therefore, the Monarch has the personality of the immortal Sun god.
F) Amon , the name of a city for Priests in Ancient Egypt has now evolved to mean Amen during and after Prayers today..."
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Wally,
Here are my Y-DNA result matches from my father's DNA E1b1a7a (M91/M2/U175). Let me know if you are familiar with these groups of people. I think my father's DNA origins are from the Sudan - Nile Valley, based on the research I did. I also have other matches that are not listed here from other countries including Oman. I will try to find the link to the map.
Here are my Y-DNA result matches from my father's DNA E1b1a7a (M91/M2/U175). Let me know if you are familiar with these groups of people. I think my father's DNA origins are from the Sudan - Nile Valley, based on the research I did...
I hope that you didn't spend an inordinate amount of money on this project, 'cause you could have gotten this info for free at your local library - in the Black history section or in the first post of this topic:
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
I was invited to this Amhara set by an Amhara buddy of mine because this chick, who he knew that we had eyes for each other, was there - but that's another story...Well when I arrived, the gathering was formal Amhara - women cloistered in the kitchen and we men in the living room; everybody imbibing, when these two imbibers began to do a dance, sans swords and shields, which seemed remarkably like the one in this picture of Beja dancers...
...again, with an Amhara buddy at an Ethiopian (Amhara) restuarant, the waitress, assuming that I was Amhara, brought us our order without silverware. I said to her something, probably flirtatious, in English and I could immediately see the "oops" in her expression. And when I took the injera into my hand and began to eat my meal, she seemed even more astonished, so she asked my buddy in English "Where did he learn to eat like an Amhara?" It was all I could do to avoid a "spit take"; with food and not water in this instance...
I learned to eat Amhara/African style as a child in Louisiana; take some cornbread in your hand and sop up some greens with it and you're in culinary paradise! ... Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ok man you won. You won.
The Ancient Egyptians left Ancient Egypt and came to your fantasy "west" Africa and went to the coast and waved their hands and said:
"WEEEEEEEEE'RRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRREEEEEE!!!!!!!" "COME AND MAKE SLAVES OUT OF US!!!!!"
Are you happy now? Will you give it a rest now? Or will your meds for the month have to come in before that happens?
Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Ancient Egyptian: sok - to pound grain (sokh - to strike, beat)
(to)
Wolof: sookha - to pound, remove chaff
(to)
African American: sock - to strike; "sock it to me"
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: o ke - correct, right
(to)
Mande : o ke - all right (and) Wolof: wah keh - all correct
(to)
African American (1700s) ok - correct, right
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent
also:
Ancient Egyptian Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam - to copulate
(to)
African American: jam = jazz = sex (The association of jazz with sex is early and extensive...)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djam (jam) - to throw up the arms or hands in gladness
(to)
~
African American: jam; "If you can't help tapping rhythms on the table, if you've got music running in your mind, or if you whistle -- not the tune, but the harmonies behind it, then you can jam. "/ jamboree - happy festivities
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
(to)
~
African American: boo - boyfriend/girlfriend
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: boubou - splendor, magnificent appearance
(to)
~
African American: booboo - common nickname in the African American community
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: deg - to see, to look at carefully
(to)
wolof: dega - to understand
(to)
African American: dig - to see, understand ("can you dig it?" - "You dig?")
▬▬▬▬▬▬
Okra is a green pod from the okra plant which, like coffee, originated in Ethiopia
(to)
Ancient Egyptian: okre (jkr)
(to)
Igbo: ọ́kụ̀rụ̀
(to)
African American: okra (pronounced 'oh.kree' in Louisiana)
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: da - the
(to)
~
African American: da - the
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: hep; hepi; hōpi - spy, slink along, go stealthily, on the lookout
(to)
Wolof: hipi - to open one's eyes
(to)
African American: Hep, Hip - someone who knows what's going on or has a clue
▬▬▬▬▬▬
(from)
Ancient Egyptian: djai - wrong, evil
(to)
Wolof: jef - to put down, belittle, bad mouth
(to)
African American: jive - to mislead, con
▬▬▬▬▬▬
...but African words do not have to necessarily come directly to America with the Africans, they can also come indirectly...
Ancient Egyptian: Baby; Baba, Babe, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek: The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superseded by Baby - representing a transformation back into its original form!
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(from)
Ancient Egyptian: won noufre - "eternally happy"
(to)
Greek: onuphrius - "eternally happy"
(to)
Italian: onofrio - "eternally happy" (D'Onofrio)
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(from)
Ancient Egypt: sir - prince, noble, great one, chief official
(to)
Modern English: sir - a gentleman of high social status, a formal or polite term of address for a man
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The influence of Wolof...
"a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America." [/QB]
Do you believe that the compared words above are cognates or what? Could you please expand on this?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE: ...Do you believe that the compared words above are cognates or what? Could you please expand on this?
Of course, I absolutely do and I provide this information for those who are intelligent and can form their own conclusions;
...here are a few Spanish - English cognates....
abandon - abandonar
abdicate - abdicar
abnormal - abnormal
abolish - abolir
abolition abolición
abominable - abominable
abolish - abolir
abound - abundar
abrupt - abrupto
absolute - absoluto
abolutely -absolutamente
...
is there a need to expand on these? Of course not, these are European words. Why it's perfectly 'logical' that "shirt" and "skirt" are cognates but when we get into African languages we become apoplectic Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
I made a mistake here. It should be E1b1a7a (U174/M2/M191).
quote:Originally posted by Neferet: Wally,
Here are my Y-DNA result matches from my father's DNA E1b1a7a (M91/M2/U175). Let me know if you are familiar with these groups of people. I think my father's DNA origins are from the Sudan - Nile Valley, based on the research I did. I also have other matches that are not listed here from other countries including Oman. I will try to find the link to the map.
4 -Step Mutations Haplogroup Country Comment Count E1b1a Angola Bakongo 1 E1b1a Benin Baoule 2 E1b1a Benin Dendi 1 E1b1a Benin Goun 1 E1b1a Benin Bariba 1 E1b1a Cameroon 5 E1b1a Cameroon - 1 E1b1a Cameroon Sanaga 1 E1b1a Cameroon Bami Banga 1 E1b1a Cameroon Ngoumba 1 E1b1a Cameroon Bassa 1 E1b1a Cote D'Ivoire (Republic of the Ivory Coast) Adioukrou 1 E1b1a Ghana Ewe 1 E1b1a Ghana - 1 E1b1a Kenya Kamba 1 E1b1a Mali - 1 E1b1a Mali Dogon 1 E1b1a Nigeria Yoruba 1 E1b1a Sierra Leone - 1 E1b1a Sudan - 1 E1b1a United Kingdom - 1 E1b1a Unknown Origin - 32 E1b1a Viet Nam - 1 E1b1a7 Cameroon Ngoumba 1 E1b1a7 Equatorial Guinea Annobones 1 E1b1a7 Ghana Ewe 3 E1b1a7 Kenya Luo 2 E1b1a7 Kenya Luhya 1 E1b1a7 Kenya Kamba 1 E1b1a7 Tanzania - 1 E1b1a7a St. Vincent and the Grenadines MDKO: St. Vincent and the Grenadines 1 E1b1a7a Unknown Origin - 6 E1b1a7a3 Unknown Origin - 1 E1b1a8 Cameroon Ngoumba 1 E1b1a8a Unknown Origin - 2
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
The amount of money spent was of no major significance to me. I wanted to know my DNA background. From what I have found out through the testing, is that it is not just from "West Africa" as it has been told in the past.
The matches I have posted from my results, are not all of the matches I have found from my own research.
Thank you for your response.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by Neferet: Wally,
Here are my Y-DNA result matches from my father's DNA E1b1a7a (M91/M2/U175). Let me know if you are familiar with these groups of people. I think my father's DNA origins are from the Sudan - Nile Valley, based on the research I did...
I hope that you didn't spend an inordinate amount of money on this project, 'cause you could have gotten this info for free at your local library - in the Black history section or in the first post of this topic:
African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Neferet: The amount of money spent was of no major significance to me. I wanted to know my DNA background. From what I have found out through the testing, is that it is not just from "West Africa" as it has been told in the past.
The matches I have posted from my results, are not all of the matches I have found from my own research.
Thank you for your response.
You are welcome and THANK YOU for corraborating the statement that I made in the opening of this topic ("The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to..."); for you have stated that your DNA test results have demonstrated to you that your haplogroup ancestry is:
...and some unknowns, which would probably indicate populations which are not scientifically researched; most likely African...
In any event, your ancestry is Pan African... Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Wally,
Here are my mother's full genome MTDNA matches/results for my haplogroup L2a1a . I have also done other research, and have found that it is even more matches than this. Including Algerians, Baluchis, Czechs, Slovaks...which is kind of surprising.
FamilyTree DNA Results:
Haplo Country Comment Match Total L2a Angola Cabinda 1 L2a Angola Mbundu 1 L2a Cameroon Chadic 1 L2a France - 1 L2a Guinea-Bissau Futa-Fula 2 L2a Italy - 2 L2a Mali Bambara 2 L2a Mali Songhai 1 L2a Mozambique - 25 L2a Mozambique Bantu 10 L2a Nigeria - 1 L2a Portugal - 1 L2a Sao Tome and Principe - 2 L2a Sierra Leone Mende 1 L2a Spain - 1 L2a1a Libya Al-Awaynat 2 L2a1a Libya Tuareg 5 L2a1a Libya Western Fezzan 2 L2a1a Mauritania - 5 L2a1a Mozambique Tswa 1 L2a1a Pakistan Makrani 1 L2a1a Tunisia Arab 5 L2a1a Tunisia Berber Chenini-Douiret - 2 L2a1a Tunisia Matmata 2 L2a1a Tunisia Sened - 6 L2a1a Yemen - 25
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
I forgot to add Gujaratis, and Rajasthanis in India.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Hey Neferet,
Look in the mirror and what phenotype do you see? If the cops were chasing you, how would they describe you on their intercom - Black, White, Asian, Hispanic (Mexican)... They would be describing your phenotype and NOT your DNA
Now, in middle school biology, at least in San Francisco, we were introduced to Gregor Mendel - "Father of genetics" - who informed us of what we could actually see ourselves in everyday life; that there were dominant and recessive genes. Ergo, Black genes are dominant over non-Black genes; a Nigerian has a child with a Brit and the kid's going to look Nigerian (Sade, Sophie Okonedo...) and if it were not widely publicized, you would never know, or even think, that Halle Berry's mother was white.
It is this genetic reality which makes Blacks (males) the least resistant to co-mingling with other phenotypes, and non-Blacks the most resistant: humans want to reproduce images of themselves.
I understand also that as an African American, I have European ancestors as well...We all are part of the Human dysfunctional family...
---
Part of your ancestry: Rajasthan (Land of Colors); Rajasthani women Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:A strong, unchecked demand for brute labor in the West Indies and on the continent of America grew until it culminated in the eighteenth century, when Negro slaves were crossing the Atlantic at the rate of fifty to one hundred thousand a year. This called for slave raiding on a scale that drew upon every part of Africa-- upon the west coast, the western and Egyptian Sudan, the valley of the Congo, Abyssinia, the lake regions, the east coast, and Madagascar. Not simply the degraded and weaker types of Negroes were seized, but the strong Bantu, the Mandingo and Songhay, the Nubian and Nile Negroes, the Fula, and even the Asiatic Malay, were represented in the raids...
-- The Negro by WEB DuBois, University of Pennsylvania Press (c) 2001, pp149;154-5
African Americans have the unique distinction of being related to the vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups, not solely on the basis of a common race, but by blood ties and families. This is a profound reality...
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Always checking wikipedia,
Neferet your mtDNA matches many important groups.
From Wikis L2 mtDNA page:
Haplogroup L2a1L2a can be further divided into L2a1, harboring the transition at 16309 (Salas et al. 2002).
The most extensive pan-African haplotype (16189 16192 16223 16278 16294 16309 16390) is in the L2a1 haplogroup.
This sequence is observed in West Africa among the Malinke, Wolof, and others; in North Africa among the Maure/Moor, Hausa, Fulbe, and others; In Central Africa among the Bamileke, Fali, and others; in South Africa among the Khoisan family including the Khwe and Bantu speakers; and in East Africa among the Kikuyu from Kenya. Closely related variants are observed among the Tuareg in North Africa and West Africa and among the East African Dinka and Somali People. (Ely et. al. 2006; Watson et al. 1997)
L2a1 is defined by mutations at 12693, 15784 and 16309.
All Ethiopian {L2} lineages can be seen as derived from the two subclades { L2a1 and L2b }
Most Ethiopian L2a1 sequences share mutations at nps {16189 and "16309″}
However, whereas the Majority (26 out of 33) "African Americans" share Haplogroup {L2a}
complete sequences could be partitioned into four subclades by substitutions at nps
{L2a1e-3495, L2a1a-3918, L2a1f-5581, and L2a1i-15229″}..
None of those sequences, (shown above) were observed in our Ethiopian {"16309″} L2a1 samples. (salas 2002) et al.
Matrilineal Ancestry of Ashkenazi Jewry: Haplogroup L2a1: A Portrait of a Recent Founder Event, displays the small frequency of L2a1/L2a1f
{Doron M. Behar, Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild,} 2006.
[edit] Haplogroup L2a1aSubclade L2a1a is defined by substitutions at 3918, 5285, 15244, and 15629. There are two L2a clusters well represented in southeastern Africans, L2a1a and L2a1b, Both defined by transitions at quite stable HVS-I positions.
Both of these appear to have an origin in West Africa or North West Africa (as indicated by the distribution of matching or neighboring types), And to have undergone Dramatic Expansion either in South East Africa or in a population ancestral to present-day SouthEastern Africans.
The very recent starbursts in subclades L2a1a and L2a2 suggest a signature for the Bantu expansions, As also suggested by Pereira et al. (2001).
The L2a1a founder candidate dates to 2,700 (SE 1,200) years ago. (Pereira et al. 2001).
However, a prehistoric introgression of African mtDNA lineages into Eastern Europe (approximately 10 000 years ago) seems to be probable only for European- specific subclade L2a1a, defined by coding region mutations at positions 6722 and 12903 and detected in Czechs and Slovaks. L2a1a is defined by a mutation at 16286.
It was previously known as L2a1a and found at its highest frequency in southeastern Africa. However, L2a1a, as defined by a substitution at (np 16286) (Salas et al. 2002), is now supported by a Coding-region marker (np 3918) (fig. 2A) and was found in four of six Yemeni L2a1 lineages.
L2a1a occurs at its highest frequency in SouthEastern Africa (Pereira et al. 2001; Salas et al. 2002). Both the frequent founder haplotype and derived lineages (with 16092 mutation) found among Yemenis have exact matches within Mozambique sequences (Pereira et al. 2001; Salas et al. 2002).
L2a1a also occurs at a smaller frequency in North West Africa, among the Maure and Bambara of Mali and Mauritania. (Rando et.al 1998; Maca-Meyer et.al. 2003)
Posted by Bishop (Member # 16652) on :
Awesome video from brother ray
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
advancing a clear example of our Wolof ancestry back to Kemet...
"The genetic relationship between two languages is determined by examining the basic vocabulary of the two languages. When there is systematic correspondence between the two languages in a large number of basic words, such as body parts, lower numerals and natural objects, the existence of a genetic relationship cannot be in doubt."
A crucial body part in the reproduction of human life is the vagina.
In Wolof, the word for vagina is :
kat - ('Katt bi' is a vulgar - ie, common folks' - term for having sex)
In Mdu Ntr, the word for vagina is :
kat
It is sometimes also written with this determinative of braided African hair - sheni
...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
More examples: African American ← Yoruba (+ Igbo) ← Kemet...
Mere, mele, miri, mili Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Fundamental pattern of ancient African migrations
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally,
Do you need psychological help?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally,
Do you need psychological help?
quote:Originally posted by Wally: You who are simple minded racists who wish to post on Egyptsearch (your usual racial, IQ stuff, and the other irrelevent nonsense), would you please use the Ancient Egypt forum and not cloud Egyptology with your stupidity and nonsense...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
excerpt from: An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary : With an Index of English Words, King List, and Geographical List with Indexes, List of Hieroglyphic Characters, Coptic and Semitic Alphabets -- E. A. Wallis Budge
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...according to Budge which is the area beginning with the yellow dot - the Great Lakes region... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
another African-American ancestor:
The Mande of the Western Sudan ...from the fertile Saharan complex, to the banks of the Nile, to West Africa, to America...
"The terms Mahou and Mande have roughly the same meaming according to Dr. Bamba. Mahou in Mande means "the humanitarians" and Mande means "the humanitarian"(in singular). For Dr. Bamba, these terms are directly linked to the meaning of the Maat concept in Anciant Egypt. " COPYRIGHTS 2000-2010 THE MANDINGO ACADEMY,INC.All rights reserved
Maa
"The Mande spoke a language that is related to ancient Egyptian and Elamite (the Niger-Congo language family)." http://www.peiraeuspubliclibrary.com/names/libya.html ------ The Mande peoples: Manding (Mandinka people; Malinke people - Bambara people - Dyula people); Soninke people; Bafour people; Ligbi people; Bissa people; Imraguen people; Kpelle people... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...African American ancestors - the Mande peoples... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
"Several theories relate to the etymology of the word Igbo. It is believed to be of Sudanic origin, derived from the verb gboo."
gb, gbw (gbou) - Ntr with an erect penis...................................... ↓ ↓ ↓ = gbw
...ergo...
Note that these Ntr totemic names, when used to designate a group, the name comes to mean some variation of "people" in their contemporary language, ie:
Akan (in Akan) = first people
Fante (in Fante) = people who left the Akan
Oromo (in Oromo) = people, resurrected human beings
Tutsi (in Kirundi) = people of wealth, first people
... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
MALI: Another ancestral homeland of African Americans...
Mandé (Bambara, Soninké, Khassonké, and Malinké), Peul, Voltaic, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor... Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
The people of Mali,Chad,and Niger are very beautiful to ME.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...In Antiquity, Blacks formed a cluster around the Nile Valley, and over the course of history, they would move westward, eastward, and southward to displace the Twa (Pygmy) Blacks...
African Origin of Civilization by C.A. Diop, p 180
African Origin of Civilization by C.A. Diop, p 182
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally what makes you wake up every day posting the same repetitive delusions day after day after day?
Why do you suffer so much from low self-esteem?
Is it because you are a black american negro?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally per your map, why do you say that Mali is an ancestral homeland of African Americans and not Mauritania or Algeria. Aren't Mauritania and Algeria on the Atlantic ocean while Mali is landlocked? Isn't Mauritania further west than Mali?
Now watch folks, now that this dumb ass has been asked a simple question which should take anyone who is not a simple minded buffon less than one second to answer, he will run and hide for the next few days until he thinks the coast is clear and that people will forget he was asked the question above.
Wally how did you become such a dullard? Bad DNA?
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Similar Beja and African American hairstyles...
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Simply beautiful!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Our Bassa ancestry
KEMIT - The Egyptian Origins of the Bassa of Liberia
peuplesawa.com/fr
"...Where did the builders of ADBASSA come from?
"They came from Khemit (ancient Egypt) and called themselves, again, ADBASSA. The ability of Bassa people to absorb other people has always assured their influence in the political order wherever they have settled. 2,716 years b.d.Um, a man called Shabako forced recognition of himself as pharaoh throughout Khemit. He reigned 14 years and his successors, Shebiko (who reigned 12 years) and Taharko (who reigned 26 years) were named by later historians as the Egyptian Dynasty XXV. After the collapse of this dynasty, it was MBEM SOYE (42nd ancestor) and KUKAME DI KUKAME (52nd ancestor) who directed their people to the Lake Chad and later to the Adamawa Heights where they built three successive empires: Rifum, Kororafa, and Adbassa.
PHARAOHS SHABAKO, SHEBIKO, AND TAHARKO OF KHEMIT Shabako, Shebiko and Taharko came from the south of Khemit, a land known as PUT, in the kingdom of KUSH, and referred to themselves as ADBASSA. At approximately 3,008 b.d. Um, a power was to determine the history of the Nile valley from the First Cataract to beyond Khartum for no less than a thousand years. This power, called the kingdom of Napata and Meroe, is also known as the kingdom of Kush.
The history of Kush is divided in two periods: 1) the Napatan Period lastin until 2178 b.d. Um, 2) the Meroitic Period existing until the fall of the kingdom toward the year 1588 b.d.Um.
This division is based only upon changes in the socioeconomic and political structure of the kingdom, for which we have as yet the following evidence: 1) the transfer of the royal cemetery from Napata to Meroe, 2) the replacement of Egyptian as the only written language by Meroitic, the language of the people who had achieved political dominance in the beginning, and 3) the gradual advance of indigenous cultural traditions and modes of perception which in the past had found practically no expression in official religion and art.
Napata and Meroe are not only periods in Kush history; they were two centers. Napata was built at the foot of Gebel Barkal, known to Egyptians as the "Holy Mountain". The cemetery of the Napatan kings (El Kurri and Nuri, ca. 2858-2658 b.d. Um) were located nearby.
From the beginning of the year 2458 b.d.Um, Meroe had been the permanent royal residence of the Kushite kings, who went to Napata only on their coronation journeys and for their burials."
Neferet's DNA markers showed no Egyptian ancestry
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Our wandering Wodaabe ancestors...
"The Wodaabe are a proud nomadic people who are scattered across the sub-Saharan Sahelian steppe in Niger, West Africa. They are said to have originated in the upper Nile basin, and their exact origins are heavily debated by scholars; some say they are from Ethiopia, while others insist they are from Egypt. The Wodaabe keep largely to themselves and rarely marry outside of their own group, which has enabled them to keep their cultural and genetic identity pure. The Wodaabe people trace their origins to two brothers, Ali and Degereejo. A sub-group of the Fulani people, the Wodaabe are traditionally known as the Bororo."
---
"Origins? No one knows for sure, but scholars presume upper Nile in Ethiopia or Egypt because of early rock art depicting people who look like Wodaabe."
"Wodaabe custom: To ensure a child's future beauty, a mother will mold the skin and bones of her infant by pressing the nose, or stretching the limbs to make her child more attractive."
Personal experience: As a small child, I was initially perplexed when I would see Black mothers/grandmothers squeezing the noses of their infants; considering my environment, my first guess was that it was an effort in order to make the Black kid's nose look "white." How wrong was I, because I did not then know anything about my African heritage and that this was an ancient African practice, at least among the Wodaabe...
...the Wodaabe... Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
@ Wally, who is the man bearing those long coils and what part of Africa is he from?
He bears the type of long coils as can be seen in various depiction of hairstyle in dynastic art.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Originally posted by Siptah: @ Wally, who is the man bearing those long coils and what part of Africa is he from? He bears the type of long coils as can be seen in various depiction of hairstyle in dynastic art.
▬ ▬ ▬ ▬ ▬
These are the Afar (aka Danakil, Adal) People of the Horn of Africa who claim to be descendants of Ham (Noah's son). They are distantly related to the ancient Beja group of peoples, who are Southern Cushites, and related in turn to the ancient Egyptian race.
Afar 'butter melt'; a common practice in Ancient Egypt as well...
Afar coiffure... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
These are the Afar (aka Danakil, Adal) People of the Horn of Africa who claim to be descendants of Ham (Noah's son). They are distantly related to the ancient Beja group of peoples, who are Southern Cushites, and related in turn to the ancient Egyptian race.
Ancient Egyptian/Afar coiffure Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
Thank you. I never knew that man was an Afar from the Danakil region, do you have a link access to a higher-res. image of him?
When i first saw his long coils Seti I and his long coils came to mind.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
His hair is loaded with kibbe (butter). It's so good for the hair!
Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
Of course it does...don't be ignorant and jealous all of your life
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Neferet's DNA markers showed no Egyptian ancestry
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ancient Egyptian-Yoruba Relationship The Linguistic relationship between Yoruba and Ancient Egypt shows a genetic relationship. by honsbira
"Syntactic Uniformity of Egypt and Warri: The Rule Theophile Obenga1986). A scientific dive (Olomu: 2005) The syntactic identify between Isekiri and Ancient Egypt is startling. If we consider the maxim of Ptahhotep "bw nfr zu m bw bin" "good place has become evil place" and the Isekiri, ‘B’ ene fe d'u b’ubi, good place has become evil place or 'good has become evil’, then we can see the following;
1 (Bw+bin) vs (Bu+bi), all being noun derivatives, rather than collective ideas. They always indicate a place where things happen.
2. The above show instances across distances and millennia where abstract nouns are formed from place names.
3 The forms bw/bin and bu/bi constitute a phrase; they are phrasal verbs in most cases. The forms above, (bw/bin) and (bu/bi) in, the two languages -Egypt and Isekiri respectively - are set out in a certain order, which in itself, creates this abstract quality. The thought can be shown vividly in this order, Bw+bin Bu+bi; which are noun + adjective formation, in both languages.
4 This Egyptian expression (millennia ago) and the Isekiri expression (today) has similar sound and meaning. This is not an accident; but a pointer to an actual contact in History. The identical interpretation of both languages, separated by time and space, is a perfect morphological, lexicological, and syntactic proof of Isekirian and Egyptian genetic linguistic relationship!
The Yoruboid Language: a Scientific Dive (Honsbira 2005)
The verbal outfit of the Yoruboid languages as they equate with the Ancient Egyptian, as a matter of their spellings, inspires the linguists. Though this is too clear to necessitate much exploration … The Yoruboid languages – Yoruba, Isekiri, Ebu, Olukumi, Igala and so on, each relating to each other and to all others, bear a horrifying testimony to this contestation. There is a straight cord linking each of them (and all of them, taken as one) to the Ancient Egyptian language. It is unscientific to treat the relationship between languages A and B without relating language A or B to C, D, E and F as members of the linguistic group to which A or B belongs. It is scientific to treat the languages in their mutual relatedness, rather than viewing each with each as members of a given phylum - isolation on isolation! To really see the Yoruboid languages as a group and as originating from Ancient Egyptian, we shall pick a notable sentence in Egypt and translate this into each of the members of the Yoruboid with a critical tenacity set between the prospects of clarification and retrospect of confusion . Consider the ancient saying of the ancient Egyptian wise man, Ptahotep Bu nfr zu m bw bin meaning “where we loved became an evil place” or in the opinion of Obenga “good has become evil”. This is:
Yoruba: Ibi awa fe d’ ibibi. Isekiri: Ub’ ene fe d’ ubu bi. Olukumi: Ib awa fe d’ ibubi. Ebu: Ube Kama fe l’ube bibi. Igala Ugb’ ene fe d’ ugb'ubi.
We promise to critically analyze the relationship among the Yoruboid languages as they relate to the Ancient Egyptian and diving there from, discover the ancientness of Isekiri. But now, no. In face of the above juxtaposition this is just too clear!
The Rules Rule 1 : If one language A combines with several other languages, B, C, D, and E to form a linguistic group K , then as each of B , C , D and E is related to A ,also B , C , D and E are related to each other.
Rule 2 : If language A is genetically related to several other languages , B , C, D and E to form a linguistic group , the genetic relationship of each of B , C, D and E to A is the genetic relationship of each of B, C , D and E to each other,(other things remaining equal.)"
▬ ▬ ▬
...compare to Wolof...
Mdu Ntr: Bu nafret su em bu bon, "a good place has become an evil place" Wolof: Bu rafet mel ni bu bon, "a good place has become an evil place"
...African American ancestry - Yoruba
The Eyes have it...beautiful Yoruba ladies...look at the eyes, and other things...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wally what do you do with your life?
Is this it?
Damn dude.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
yoruba: the egyptian connection by olomu and eyebira
"In this chapter, we shall talk of a possible migration from ancient Egypt. Many traditions point to a fact that an alien group (Egyptians) immigrated to Yoruba land and mixed with the original population.
Many oral traditions are replete with these stories. The Awujale of Ijebu land has shown that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of Egypt). He was able to use the evidence of language, body, scarification, coronation rituals that are similar to Nubians’ etc, to show that the Ijebus are descendants of the Nubians. What the present Awujale claimed for the Ijebus, can be authenticated all over Yoruba land. The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.
Since the Nubians were descended or colonized by the Egyptians, the Ijebu, and by extension, all Yoruba customs, derived from the Egyptian. Many traditional Yorubas have always claimed Egypt as their place of original abode, and that their monarchical tradition derives from the Egyptians’. Apostle Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan, a high priest of Umale-Okun, and a direct descendant of Orunmila, claimed that the Yorubas left Egypt as a result of a big war that engulfed the whole of Egypt. He said the Egyptian remnants settled in various places, two important places being Ode Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.Chief O.N Rewane says “Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at Ode-Itsekiri,.” (O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine A PICTORIAL SOUVENIR OF THE BURIAL AND CORONATION OF OLU OF WARRI, WARRI 1987)
Since these oral traditions are passed on by very illiterate people, we can augment whatever is recorded with written sources. Concerning the migration of some of the Yoruban ancestors from the east, Conton says:
The Yoruba of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile 2,000 years ago, and who were at the time in close contact with the Egyptians and the Jews. Sometime before AD 600, if this belief is correct, this people must have left their fertile lands, for reasons which we can not now discover and have joined in the ceaseless movement of tribes west wards and south-wards across our continent.
We can only guess at the many adventures they and their descendants must have had on their long journey and at the number of generations which passed before they arrived. All we can be certain about is that they were a Negro people...and that one of the many princely states they founded on their arrival in West Africa…..was Ife.’ Conton WF (1960. 71
Although we agree with Conton that some of the Yoruban ancestors migrated from Egypt, we tend to toe the scientific line of Cheik Anta Diop, that the ancient Egyptians were pure Negroes.
Aderibigbe, an indigenous scholar, also accepts that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt. He says:
“The general trend of these theories, most of them based on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from “the east”. Some scholars, impressed by the similarities between Yoruba and ancient Egyptian culture – religious observation, works of art, burial and other customs – speak of a possible migration of the ancestors of the Yoruba from the upper Nile (as early as 2000BC – 1000BC) as a result of some upheavals in ancient Egypt”. (AB ADERIBIGBE 1976)
Unlike Conton, Aderibigbe was able to pinpoint a cause for the Yoruban migration – war. Olumide Lucas did a lot of job to show similarities and identities between the ancient Egyptians and the Yoruban peoples. The date that Aderibigbe gave (2000BC – 1000BC) is much earlier than that given by Conton. Aderibigbe’s date corresponds to that of the Hyksos invasion of Egypt 2000-1500BC. On the possible eastern origin of the Yorubas, Tariqh Sawandi says:
“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans- African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people.
This time period is known as the Bronze Age, a time of high civilization of both of these groups. According to Olumide J. Lucas, “the Yoruba, during antiquity, lived in ancient Egypt before migrating to the Atlantic coast”. He uses as demonstration the similarity or identity of languages, religious beliefs, customs and names of persons, places and things. In addition, many ancient papyri discovered by archaeologists point at an Egyptian origin. (Tariqh Sawandi: Yorubic medicine: The Art of divine herbology – online article).
Ademoyega commented that the Ekiti section of the Yorubas must have migrated to their present area around 638AD when the Muslims took over Egypt and forced some of the Yoruba people to migrate to their present area.
So, we see that the Yoruba did not come in one migration, but in many different migrations – in waves. The first possible migration might be connected with the Hyksos invasion. Some words in the Yoruban vocabulary echo the words used in Egypt in predynastic times and in the early dynastic periods. Some Egyptian gods of this period have strong identities with Yoruban deities. For instance, gods such as Adumu (Adumu) Hepi (Ipi) Ausar (Ausa), Horise (Orise), and Sámi (Sámi) Nam (Inama) are present in Yoruba. All these gods existed in the pre-dynastic and early dynastic periods of Egypt. TODAY, AMONG THE ITSEKIRI-YORUBAS ,THESE GODS CAN STILL BE PHYSICALLY SEEN, AT LEAST, ONCE A YEAR! Neighbouring peoples are already initiated into the various gods systems and beliefs in yorubaland.the agban ancestral worship was first organized in Urhoboland during the funeral ceremony of chief Ayomanor of Sapele (1949). The Ipi system was first organized in Urhoboland in March 11, 2005.
We can also see words that existed in the Graeco-Roman period in some of the Yoruban dialects. When the Romans took over Egypt, they infiltrated the Egyptian area with their language. In present Yoruba, we can still find words of Roman descent. For instance, the Yoruba called the palm frond ‘Mariwo’. This word is derived form the Latin Rivus (River). One of the declensions of river is Rivo (by the river).Since the Yoruban possesses no “V”, the word become riwo. Thus, the word “Omariwo” means the child by the river. Some other words like Sangi (blood in Itsekiri-yoruba dialect) thought to have been derived form the Portuguese were actually brought as a result of the Roman Conquest of Egypt. Sangi is blood and the Latin term is Sanguis. Some eastern Yoruba use the term “Ihagi” which is clearly a corruption of the Roman Sanguis. A Christian army in 540AD invaded Egypt and some persons believed to have reached Yoruba land were driven from Egypt.
With the commencement of the Arab period in Egypt, some indigenous Egyptians who never wanted to accept the Islamic religion escaped to present Yoruba land. It was probably in this period that words such as Keferi (Kafri pagan in Arab) infiltrated into the Yoruboid vocabulary.
All said and done, more than fifty percent of the Yoruboid vocabulary of today can be deduced either directly or indirectly from the ancient Egyptian. These are the original ancient Egyptian language devoid of Arab and Latin words that are very few in the Yoruboid vocabulary
It is not really certain when king Oduduwa came from Egypt. He must have come in one of the many migrations. But since the Yoruba religious discourse has a lot of identities with Egyptian, Oduduwa would have left Egypt at a very early period perhaps after the Hyksos invasion of 2000-1500BC ,but not later than 30BC"
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...more on the Bassa (Kwa) of Liberia...
"The Bassa (Dei, Bassa, Kru, Krahn, Grebo), also referred to as the Kwa-Speakers, can trace their historical origins to Egypt. When the Adbassa Empire collapsed in the 6th century, they migrated from Egypt to Bassa-ri, which includes portions of modern-day Senegal, Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Togo, and Cameroon.[1] The Adbassa Empire would last three centuries alongside the Bornu, Hausa, and Yoruba kingdoms."
Ancient Bassa script (Vah) which was used up until the 19th century
Bassa alphabet
Bassa tones
Thanks to Varnie N'jola Karmo of the Bassa Vah Association and Mattias Persson for information on the Bassa alphabet.
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Liberian lady
...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
And as your photos show - blacks have no physical diversity whatsoever. All are dark skinned, dark wooly or curly haired, dark eyed etc. Yet the pre-dynastic mummies are straight red and auburn haired, as are many of the mummies from the dynastic period.
^ Are you kidding?? You see no phenotypic diversity at all from Wally's photos?? You are obviously lying to yourself.
Also, the topic of mummy hair has been discussed countless times. Human hair or any hair for that matter does not stay the same after millennia of dried conditions let alone embalming.
I take it then that these Peruvian mummies prove the ancient peoples of Peru had auburn and red hair as well.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
African American ancestry: the Fulani (Pël, Pëlu)
Of the Egyptian origin of the Fulani Aboubacry Moussa Lam
(translated from the French)
Introduction
"...Finally, this thesis has shown the preponderant role played by the Nile and Egyptian Civilization in understanding the historical facts of black Africa. Whenever we have repositioned a problem in its management and Egyptian Nile, everything became clear as crystal.
It is therefore not a quest of a glorious past but more reasonable search of the intelligibility of historical facts. The African historian has no choice. As the Western specialist who uses the Greco-Roman civilization to understand the facts of the most salient of his society, he must also use the Nilotic cradle for understanding historical events he studies. Cheikh Anta Diop was clearly understood. Again, at the risk of repeating ourselves, the glory has nothing to do with this process driven solely by scientific reasons.
Thus, without questioning the role that cultural area Saharan Africa has played in the emergence of the cultural unity of Black Africa, the hotbed of it is the Nile Valley. It is also one of the major contributions of our thesis. Indeed, the Great Lakes to the Nile Delta, we saw that parallels and similarities exist between the very important poularophones and different groups of people in this part of Africa.
This raises the problem of the dispersion of blacks across the continent, as a corollary, the famous migration is one of the issues that were the subject of our attention at the end of this thesis. Again, taking into account pertinent comments concerning the foundations without which migration may be simple assumptions we have made an effort, certainly significant, but not be limited, given the current state things. It means recognizing that our thesis in this area is improved. We hope it will be completed as soon as possible through quality work, because the scientific dispute that we mentioned in our introduction seems unable to find a definitive solution that the day of solid foundations, historical and geographical names, confine the flyway between the valleys of the Nile and Senegal."
Fulani of Sudan/Upper Nile
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The historical significance of Ancient Egypt in African history and the ancestral history of African Americans
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Dogon and the Egyptians
"The Dogon are thought to have originated in ancient Egypt due to significant traditions and oral myths which relate to Egyptian mythology and knowledge of astronomy. One interesting link to the ancient Egyptians is the practice of circumcising both males and females..."
If you keep in mind that Ancient Egypt was a Black Civilization and not the one fabricated during the European colonial/neo-colonial era, then the understanding of African history becomes crystal clear.
Quite simple, quite clear...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Perhaps it was due in part to the humiliation of the nation that had allowed the Aamu ("Asiatics") to insinuate themselves into the Delta, attain positions of wealth, marry Satut Kemé (IE, native women), and then ultimately seize control of this region; that would later lead to the installment by the liberated, reunited Kemet of a more radical political legitimacy (as well as the new desire to create an empire in Asia); launched, of course, from the south:
Protection of Royal Matrilineal Descent It was during the 18Th dynasty, and never before this time, that there was imposed an absolute prohibition for any royal heiress to marry anyone other than a reigning king.
Nefertiti and Tutankhamen Also during this period, though not exclusive to it, the pictorial displays of the Queen (mother) only depicted them with their female children. No sons are ever depicted simply because they were irrelevant to royal succession. This fact has caused a few observers to make the superficial conclusion that these queens did not bear any male children! (It is also a convenient way to deny the reality of Kemet being a matriarchal society; Western mythology at work again). It is almost certain, given the radical legitimist characteristics of this dynasty, that Nefertiti was the mother of Tutankhamen, who was the last king of this family dynasty, beginning with Iohotep. In any event, he, like all legitimate royals with the appropriate circumstance, married his sister AnkhesenAmen. Brother-Sister marriage kept the royal blood pure...
The Emergence of Great Kememou Women It is also probably due to the humiliation of the nation by the Aamu occupation, and the reaction of solidifying the Royal line of matrilineal descent, that we witness the emergence of powerful and influential women; Aames-Nefertari, Tiye, Nefertiti, and Hatshepsut (a man's name). In fact, it is for certain that Hatshepsut established the first recorded instance in history in which not only did the woman provide the legitimacy to rule but also actually ruled as well...
Royal Queen Mothers The beginning of the 18Th dynasty actually occurred during the 17Th Dynasty and the struggle to expel the "Hyksos" (Mdu Ntr:Hek khasu or "foreign rulers") from the Delta: The Great Queen Mother of this dynasty was Iohotep (The Moon is Pleased), who was probably originally from "Sudan"; who is by lineage the ancestor of Queen Tetisheri; queen mother of the 18Th dynasty. > also related to this lineage is Queen Tiye, daughter of Lady Thuya; a descendant of a prominent (elite) family from Akhmin, Upper Egypt. Nefertiti being the daughter of Tiye.
Nsu;Nsuten;Suten These are the more traditional names for the king, which fundamentally is an ideological statement that the Kingship is of southern origin, in its most legitimist form. The term Pharaoh is a Hebrew spelling of the Mdu Ntr word "Fer-ao" which means "Great (double) Houses." but because of its biblical usage, it has become the most popular current title for the king; in reality, Nsu;Nsuten;Suten meant king, royalty, the south.
Kemet: A Matriarchal culture By the very nature in which they are compiled, the Egyptian king's lists are incomplete at best, and probably not entirely accurate. The problem is that dynasties are traced and listed as if one is researching a Patriarchal culture; since those doing the research are products of such a society. It's totally subjective and backwards!
Matriarchal Line of Descent Ancient Egypt was a matriarchy wherein descent to the throne is through the female line , and this Egyptian system was formal and legitimist from the beginning to the end of Pharaonic history.
quote: "Because of the need to ensure that the next king was born to a woman of the purest royal blood and because the role of the Great Royal Wife was of the greatest importance to the succession, the ruling king was usually married to the Great Royal Daughter (who was customarily his sister and the eldest daughter of the previous king and his Great Royal Wife). Inheritance thus passed through the female line; to substantiate his claim to the throne and gain acceptance of his own son as the next heir, each royal heir presumptive had to marry the Great Royal Daughter...Even claimants who had only tenuous links with the main royal line could legitimatize their kingship if they married the royal heiress. --Handbook to Life in Ancient Egypt, p87 by Rosalie David, Oxford
quote: Ancient Egypt's lineage was traced through women and property was passed through women. For this reason, Ancient Egypt originated as a matriarchy. The Pharaohs were trustees of the property passed down and their reign was decided by their matrilineal status. Because of the matrilineal structure, husbands would lose their property and status if their wife died. The property was passed down to the daughters and granddaughters. Many incest relations began with fathers and daughters and granddaughters because the men wanted to stay with the property. There were also numerous brother/sister incest marriages.
...and just plain ol' common sense! If becoming king was based on the male line of descent, what could possibly be the reason for the king to marry his sister or cousin? Why did the king have to marry a royal female to legitimize his rule??? I feel absolutely embarrassed to be asking a question whose answer is self-evident and obvious. A Kemetian patriarchy is as real as the Sirens or a "White Egypt"; it's the same illogic at work here, it is revisionist history/mythology.
In order to trace and record the Egyptian dynasties is to correctly identify the succession of Queen Mothers. -- Who was the Queen Mother of the Eighteenth dynasty, whose daughter would be married to Ahmose I; -- Tutankhamen's legitimacy would necessarily be traced back to this woman as well. and so on... Anomalies, such as the illegitimate ascension to the throne of Rameses I, are the rare exceptions which proves the rule of this Egyptian law.
Nsu, Nsuten, Suten: Southern Legitimacy The basis of the Egyptian line of descent and legitimacy was for the female line to be descended from the South (the Sudan). This is expressed in the very meaning of these words and in the title of Pharaoh -- Nsu Biti -- that the matriarchy and legitimacy were derived from the "Khentu hon Nefer" or "the founders of the excellent order"-- Sudanese Africans. This is illustrated, for example, that when the alien Hyksos invaded and occupied the Delta region, Egyptian royalty retreated to the heartland to regroup and to launch a counter-attack to expel these foreigners, a process which, incidentally, took several centuries. The concept was clear, Egyptian royal legitimacy originated in the South and therefore could only be re- instated from the South. (This ideology makes laughable the designation of the 25th dynasty as the "Kushite dynasty" which was simply a re-enactment of the process of the "Hyksos" era - the restoration of Egyptian royalty and legitimate rule.)
One of the official titles of Tutankhamen included the boast "heq An nsu" - "ruler from Southern On (Heliopolis of the South); emphasizing the southern and therefore formally legitimate origins of the Eighteenth dynasty...
And I would bet the farm that his parents are Ikhnaton and Nefertiti; an independent, non- National Geographic/Hawass scientific team's performance of a DNA analysis of all the royal mummies would add considerable light on who's who, and I'll win my bet, absolutely...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The chronicling of the political unification of the various African ethnic groups and clans of the ancient Nile valley into a unified nation is clearly delineated in the Text/Tablet of Narmer:
The Front Side:
A) The first word is at the very top, inside the ideograph of the palace, and contains the name Narmer:
Nar(catfish) mer (chisel). And NO, it does not mean that he was a chiseling catfish! You can get Jan Assman's interpretation of the name in his book...
B) The figure to the right of the conquering king-wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt-, the one where Horus is astride and doing exactly what Diop suggests, as Assman points out, represents the conquest of the Delta or Lower Egypt.
C) The king's servant is identified as "Sashat-the goddess of writing, and I presume, the one who is chronicling all of this. (No, the sandal-bearer wasn't a servant god but merely a scribe.)
The people being subdued (compelled to unite) as well as the ones shown fleeing the land have Black African hairstyles, and many Egyptologists suggest that they represent the original Black African Anu ethnic rulers of the Two Lands.
D) the two figures below the "border" of Egypt represent the determinative "Kher" which means "fall, defeat, slaughter" and is preceded by another glyph which means "Uhan" or "overthrown, throw-down" (Coptic: Ouwdjn/Ouwgan)(also Sdjen).
The Back Side:
A) The first important word on this side is the word Tht;or Tjt; or Tet which means "to assemble" and is obviously referring to the assembled group of four figures bearing Black African totems, as Diop points out.
B) Above the slain enemies- I imagine those who opposed political unification - are the images of
1) a boat with its sails down, which means a journey down river
and
2) of Horus in front of an emblem which Assman interprets as meaning 'gate' - These conquerors would later be identified as the "Shemsu Hor" or the followers of Horus, the Mesnitu ('blacksmiths') and who later claimed that they were from the land of Punt (evidence of the existence of at least two ruling African ethnic groups; Anu and later, the Mesnitu)...
C) The next word, a very large version at that, of two creatures with the twisting long necks is "Kaes" or "Kasu" which means 'to bind or fetter,' Qes/Kes - restrain, bind
which I think indicates the obvious, that the union of the two lands was carried out through armed struggle.
(It has been suggested that the 'formal' union was firmly established by another warrior king, Aha. )
D) the last image is the one that confirms Diops assessment...
1) The bull breaking down the walled city's fortified wall and stomping the Asiatic represents the king. The word inside the wall "Abominable" (IE, "city of the abominables") is a term the Kememu used to describe the Asian or White peoples, especially.
It seems obvious that the Kememu did not regard these peoples as a legitimate part of their ethnic population. It's Kememu ideology...
ref: --The Mind of Egypt: History and Meaning in the Time of the Pharaohs by Jan Assmann, Andrew Jenkins (Translator) --The African Origin of Civilization by C.A. Diop --The Mdu Ntr (Budge, Gardiner, etc...)
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Fiopy (aka Pepi II) 6th Egyptian family dynasty king...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
A fractal is a pattern that repeats itself at different scales. It is ideal for modeling nature: a tree is a branch of a branch of a branch; mountains are peaks within peaks; clouds are puffs of puffs, and so on. But modern computer scientists aren't the only ones to use fractals: Africans have been using them for centuries to design textiles, sculptures, architecture, hairstyles and more.
Pyramids in Sudan - Egypt
Sudan - Gonder (Ethiopia) - Great Zimbabwe
Kerma city (Sudan) - Lunda houses (Congo) - Tigray (Ethiopia)
... [b]In the ancient Western Sudan (aka West Africa)- Songhai, Ghana... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Fractals in African Culture.
Fractal designs appear frequently in cultural artifacts across the continent of Africa. They are found in textiles, architecture, sculpture, village layout, etc. Continent wide studies conclude that the high frequency of the use of fractals in Africa is by both conscious and unconscious design. The scaling and recursion aspect of fractals are employed by African architects with the interest of creating a focus of mind and spirit.
The first image is of the layout of an individual house. This is the seed shape. The second iteration shows the same configuration of a family compound. The third iteration shows the layout of the entire village made up of several compounds.
Fractal model for Ba-ila village (Zambia)
Fractals in textiles Fractals in textiles --------------------- African hair braiding ------------------------------------- an Ethiopian Cross - - and more African hair braiding. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...ya know, like the Irish just 'sprouted' up in Ireland, and of course the Germans aren't a combination of Nordics and Huns (ya know, Mongolians)...
and with these folks - "African Americans are ONLY from West Africa!"...was there an 'iron curtain'!?! You have to be in kindergarten or severely retarded to believe this crap...
Nah, nah...these people above, all African Americans, along with the Beja, Igbo, Yoruba, Akan, Akele, Wolof, ...are the creators and biological descendants of this ancient Nilotic African Civilization. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
It all began in Africa...
The phallus was a symbol of fertility, and the god Min was often depicted with an erect penis.
The god Min in the color of life and rejuvination erect penises globally
Washington, D.C.
erect penises in Ethiopia
...it is not about juvenile eroticism; it is about the procreation of the human family... Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Of the approximately 388,000 African slaves who landed in America, almost 92,000 (24 percent!) were Senegambians...Hence, people from Senegambia were prominent everywhere in the United States...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
IS THERE A PSYCHIATRIST IN THE HOUSE?! Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
Black is beautiful
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...FROM AFRICA...
watermelon - Betuke
The first recorded watermelon harvest was in Kemet and it took place nearly 5000 years ago. This is depicted in the Kememou hieroglyphics that are found in ancient buildings. As a matter of fact, watermelons were also placed in the tombs of kings to help nourish them in the after life.
TO AFRICA-AMERICA - a letter from home
"I think it was Geral I first heard call a watermelon a letter from home. After all these years I understand a little better what she meant. She was saying the melon is a letter addressed to us. A story for us from down home. Down home being everywhere we have ever been, the rural South, the old days, slavery, Africa. That juicy striped message with red meat and seeds, which always looked like roaches to me was blackness as cross and celebration, a history we could taste and chew. And it was meant for us. Addressed to us. We were meant to slit it open and take care of business." --John Edgar Wideman, Damballah
Referring to Watermelon as "a letter from home" is a typical African-American expression in this community - especially in the South.
Fried Chicken!! "Fried chicken has been around a long time! It's not as American as one might think. Fried chicken has been around since Ancient Egypt..."
PEOPLE CARRY THEIR HISTORY WITH THEM. Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...this is a brain teaser...
an illiterate person (the majority) in Kemet knows that the word for "watermelon" is betuke; written for the literate here and hi-lighted in sepia...
however, a literate person, can also read the definition or the sense of the word as it is written...
ideograms
it's a plant
it's masculine; procreates
and the determinative of a bull (strong, potent)
in any case the word for this African melon evokes its significance in this ancient culture, and its meaning surviving in African-American culture: a letter (message) from home.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...here is a refinement/update of the Mdu Ntr word "Napy" posted here earlier that describes Ancient Egyptian hair:
Napy, nupy
here is the word as it is spoken (nah.pee)
with the determinative of a lock of curly, wooly, or plaited African hair; Posted by Serpent Wizdom (Member # 7652) on :
i love watermelon, yummy!!! its my favorte melon/fruit.
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
ancient egyptians were not related to any west africans
Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
hello afreekan
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
No west africans in EGYPT. Egyptians are related to East africans. it is supported by Anthropology and Genetics!
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
...more, on our Yoruba ancestors...
"In order to have a better appreciation of these developments, it is necessary to start from the political crisis in Igodomigodo also known as Ile (Home) which was the capital of the migrants from Sudan scattered over the present west African and central African sub regions." from "The History of the Ancient Benin Kingdom and Empire" written by Chief D.N. Oronsaye (published 1995; printed by Jeromelaiho).
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Chiekh Anta Diop has contributed much to the Afrocentric social sciences. Here we discuss many of Diop's views on using the linguistic sciences to rediscover the ancient history of Blacks.
Chiekh Anta Diop has made important contributions to linguistic theory in relation to African historiography. Diop's work illustrates that it is important for scholars to maintain a focus on the historical and linguistic factors which define the "personnalitè culturelle africaine" (Diop 1991, 227).
Language is the sanctum sanctorum of Diop's Afrocentric historical method. The Diopian view of historiography combines the research of linguistics, history and psychology to interpret the cultural unity of African people. C. Anta Diop is the founder of modern Afrocentricism . Diop (1974,1991) laid the foundations for the Afrocentric idea in education. He laid these foundations using both the historical and anthropological/linguistic methods of research to explain the role of the Blacks in World History.
There are three components in the genetic model: 1) common Physical type, 2) common cultural patterns and 3) genetically related languages. (Winters 1989a) Diop over the years has brought to bear all three of these components in his illumination of Kemetic civilization. (Diop 1974,1977,1978,1991)
The opposition of many Eurocentric scholars to Afrocentric -ism results from white hostility to Diop's idea of a Black Egypt, and the view that Egyptians spoke an African ,rather than Afro-Asiatic language.
Recently, Eurocentric American scholars have alleged to write reviews of Diop's recent book (Diop 1991). Although these reviewers mention the work of Diop in their articles, they never review his work properly, because they lack the ability to understand the many disciplines that Diop has mastered.(Lefkowitz 1992; Baines 1991) For example Lefkowitz (1992) in The New Republic, summarizes Diop (1974) but never presents any evidence to dispute the findings of Diop. The most popular "review" of Diop (1991) was done by Baines (1991) review in the New York Times Book Review. In this "review" Baines (1991) claims that "...the evidence and reasoning used to support the arguments are often unsound".
Instead of addressing the evidence Diop (1991) presents of the African role in the rise of civilization that he alleges is "unsound", he is asking the reader to reject Diop's thesis without refutation of specific evidence presented by Diop of the African contributions to Science and Philosophy. Baines (l991) claims that Diop's Civilization or Barbarism, is not a work of originality, he fails to dispute any factual evidence presented by Diop. Baines (1991) wants the public to accept his general negative comments about Civilization or Barbarism ,based on the fact that he is an Egyptologist. This is not enough, in academia to refute a thesis one must present counter evidence that proves the falseness of a thesis not unsubstantiated rhetoric. We can not accept the negative views of Baines on faith alone. In the recovery of information concerning the African past, Diop promotes semantic anthropology, comparative linguistics and the study of Onomastics. The main thesis of Diop is that typonymy and ethnonymy of Africa point to a common cradle for Paleo-Africans in the Nile Valley (Diop 1978, 67).
Onomastics is the science of names. Diop has studied legends, placenames and religious cult terms to discover the unity of African civilization. Diop (1981, 86) observed that: "An undisputed linguistic relationship between two geographically remote groups of languages can be relevant for the study of migrations. A grammatical (or genetic) relationship if clear enough is never an accident".
As a result, Diop has used toponyms (place-names), anthroponyms (personal names) and ehthnonyms (names of ethnic groups/tribes) to explain the evidence of analogous ethnic (clan) names in West Africa and the Upper Nile (Diop 1991).
In Precolonial Black Africa, Diop used ethnonyms to chart the migrations of African people in West Africa. And in The African Origin of Civilization, Diop used analyses acculturaliste or typological analysis to study the origin and spread of African cultural features from the Nile Valley to West Africa through his examination of toponyms (Diop 1974, 182-183). In the Cultural Unity of Black Africa, Diop discussed the common totems and religious terms many African ethnic groups share (Diop 1978, 124).
LINGUISTIC TAXONOMY
This linguistic research has been based on linguistic classification or taxonomy. Linguistic taxonomy is the foundation upon which comparative and historical linguistic methods are based (Ruhlen 1994). Linguistic taxonomy is necessary for the identification of language families. The determination of language families give us the material to reconstruct the proto-language of a people and discover regular sound correspondences.
There are three major kinds of language classifications: genealogical, typological, and areal. A genealogical classifica-tion groups languages together into language families based on the shared features retained by languages since divergence from the common ancestor or proto-language. An areal classification groups languages into linguistic areas based on shared features acquired by a process of convergence arising from spatial proximity. A typological classification groups languages together into language types by the similarity in the appearance of the structure of languages without consideration of their historical origin and present, or past geographical distribution.
COMPARATIVE METHOD
Diop has used comparative and historical linguistics to illuminate the Unity of African civilization. Diop (1977, xxv) has noted that "The process for the evolution of African languages is clearly apparent; from a far we (have) the idea that Wolof is descendant by direct filiation to ancient Egyptian, but the Wolof, Egyptian and other African languages (are) derived from a common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common African or the Negro- African of L. Homburger or of Th. Obenga."
The comparative method is used by linguists to determine the relatedness of languages, and to reconstruct earlier language states. The comparative linguist has two major goals (1) trace the history of language families and reconstruct the mother language of each family, and (2) determine the forces which affect language. In general, comparative linguists are interested in determining phonetic laws, analogy/ correspondence and loan words. Diop is a strong supporter of the comparative method in the rediscovery of Paleo-African. The reconstruction of Paleo-African involves both reconstruction and recognition of regular sound correspondence. The goal of reconstruction is the discovery of the proto-language of African people is the recovery of Paleo-African:
(1) vowels and consonants
(2) specific Paleo-African words
(3) common grammatical elements; and
(4) common syntactic elements.
The comparative method is useful in the reconstruction of Proto-languages or Diop's Paleo-African. To reconstruct a proto-language the linguist must look for patterns of correspondences. Patterns of correspondence is the examination of terms which show uniformity. This uniformity leads to the inference that languages are related since uniformity of terms leads to the inference that languages are related since conformity of terms in two or more languages indicate they came from a common ancestor.
HISTORICAL LINGUISTICS
A person's language provides us with evidence of the elements of a group's culture. Diop has noted that reconstruction of Paleo-African terms can help us make inferences about a group's culture going backwards in time to an impenetrable past undocumented by written records. This is semantic anthropology, a linguistic approach which seeks to discover aspects of man's culture from his language. Thusly, linguistic resemblances can help the anthropologist make precise inferences about a groups culture elements.
Linguistic resemblances denote a historical relationship. This suggest that resemblances in fundamental vocabulary and culture terms can help one reconstruct the culture of the speakers of genetically related languages.
LINGUISTIC CONSTANCY
The rate at which languages change is variable. It appears that linguistic change is culture specific. Consequently, the social organization and political culture of a particular speech community can influence the speed at which languages change.
Based on the history of language change in Europe most linguists believe that the rate of change for all languages is both rapid and constant.(Diagne, 1981,p.238) The idea that all languages change rapidly is not valid for all the World's languages.
African languages change much slower than European languages. (Armstrong, 1962) For example, African vocabulary items collected by Arab explorers over a thousand years ago are analogous to contemporary lexical items.(Diagne,1981, p.239) In addition there are striking resemblances between the ancient Egyptian language and Coptic, and Pharonic Egyptian and African languages.(Diagne, 1981; Diop, 1977; Obenga, 1993)
The political stability of African political institutions has caused languages to change very slowly in Africa. Pawley and Ross (1993) argue that a sedentary life style may account for the conservative nature of a language.
African oral traditions and the eye witness accounts of travelers to Africa, make it clear that African empires although made up of diverse nationalities illustrated continuity. To accomodate the plural nature of African empires Africans developed a Federal system of government. (Niane , 1984) In fact we can not really describe ancient African state systems as empires, since this implies absolute rule or authority in a single individual. This political state of affairs rarely existed in ancient Africa, because in each African speech community local leadership was elected by the people within the community. (Diop, 1987) For example the Egyptians often appointed administrators over the conquered territories from among the conquered people. (Diop ,1991)
The continuity of many African languages may result from the steady state nature of African political systems, and long standing cultural stability since neolithic times. (Diop, 1991 ; Winters 1985) This cultural stability has affected the speed at which African languages change.
In Africa due to the relative stability of socio-political structures and settled life, there has not been enough pressure exerted on African societies as a whole and African speech communities in particular, to cause radical internal linguistic changes within most African languages. Permanent settlements led to a clearly defined system of inheritance and royal succession. These traits led to stability on both the social and political levels. This leads to the hypothesis that linguistic continuity exist in Africa due to the stability of African socio-political structures and cultural systems. This relative cultural stability has led African languages to change more slowly then European and Asian languages. Diop (1974) observed that:
First the evolution of languages, instead of moving everywhere at the same rate of speed seems linked to other factors; such as , the stability of social organizations or the opposite, social upheavals. Understandably in relatively stable societies man's language has changed less with the passage of time.(pp.153-154)
There is considerable evidence which supports the African continuity concept. Dr. Armstrong (1962) noted the linguistic continuity of African languages when he used glottochronology to test the rate of change in Yoruba. Comparing modern Yoruba words with a list of identical terms collected 130 years ago by Koelle , Dr. Armstrong found little if any internal or external changes in the terms. He concluded that:
I would have said that on this evidence African languages are changing with glacial slowness, but it seems to me that in a century a glacier would have changed a lot more than that. Perhaps it would be more in order to say that these languages are changing with geological slowness. (Armstrong, 1962, p.285).
Diop's theory of linguistic constancy recognizes the social role language plays in African language change. Language being a variable phenomena has as much to do with a speaker's society as with the language itself. Thus social organization can influence the rate of change within languages. Meillet (1926, 17) wrote that:
Since language is a social institution it follows that linguistics is a social science, and the only variable element to which one may appeal in order to account for a linguistic change is social change, of which language variations are but the consequences.
THE BLACK AFRICAN ORIGIN OF EGYPT
Diop has contributed much to African linguistics. He was a major proponent of the Dravidian-African relationship (Diop 1974, 116), and the African substratum in Indo-European languages in relationship to cacuminal sounds and terms for social organiza-tion and culture (1974, 115). Diop (1978, 113) also recognized that in relation to Arabic words, after the suppression of the first consonant, there is often an African root.
Diop's major linguistic effort has been the classification of Black African and Egyptian languages . Up until 1977 Diop'smajor area of interest were morphological and phonological similarities between Egyptian and Black African languages. Diop (1977, 77-84) explains many of his sound laws for the Egyptian-Black African connection.
In Parènte Génétique de l'Egyptien pharraonique et des Langues Négro Africaines (PGEPLNA), Diop explains in some detail his linguistic views in the introduction of this book. In PGEPLNA , Diop demonstrates the genetic relationship between ancient Egyptian and the languages of Black Africa. Diop provides thousands of cognate Wolof and Egyptian terms in support of his Black African-Egyptian linguistic relationship.
PALEO-AFRICAN
African languages are divided into Supersets (i.e., a family of genetically related languages, e.g., Niger-Congo) sets, and subsets. In the sets of African languages there are many parallels between phonological terms, eventhough there may be an arbitrary use of consonants which may have a similar sound. The reason for these changes is that when the speakers of Paleo-African languages separated, the various sets of languages underwent separate developments. As a result a /b/ sound in one language may be /p/ or /f/ in a sister language. For example, in African languages the word for father may be baba , pa or fa, while in the Dravidian languages we have appan to denote father. Diop has noted that reconstruction of Paleo-African terms can help us make inferences about an ethnic group's culture going backwards in time to an impenetrable past undocumented by written records. This is semantic anthropology, a linguistic approach which seeks to discover aspects of man's culture from his language.
Thusly, linguistic resemblances can help the anthropologists make precise inferences about a linguistic group's cultural elements.
BLACKS IN WEST ASIA
In PGEPLNA Diop makes clear his views on the role of African languages in the rise of other languages. Using archaeological evidence Diop makes it clear that the original West Asians: Elamites and Sumerians were of Black origin (1974, 1977, xxix-xxxvii).
Diop (1974, 1991) advocates the unity of Black Africans and Blacks in West Asia. Winters (1985,1989,1994) has elaborated on the linguistic affinity of African and West Asian languages.
This view is supported by linguistic evidence. For example these languages share demonstrative bases:
Proximate Distant Finite
Dravidian i a u
Manding i a u
Sumerian bi a
Wolof i a u
The speakers of West Asian and Black African languages also share basic culture items: Chief city,village black,burnt
Dravidian cira, ca uru kam
Elamite Salu
Sumerian Sar ur
Manding Sa furu kami,"charcoal'
Nubia sirgi mar
Egyptian Sr mer kemit
Paleo-African *sar *uru *kam
OBENGA
Obenga (1978) gives a phonetic analysis of Black African and Egyptian. He illustrates the genetic affinity of consonants within the Black African (BA) and Egyptian languages especially the occlusive bilateral sonorous, the occlusive nasal apico-dental /n/ and /m/ , the apico-alveolar /r/ and the radical proto-form sa: 'man, female, posterity' in Black Africa.
Language
Agaw asau, aso 'masculine
Sidama asu 'man'
Oromo asa id.
Caffino aso id.
Yoruba so 'produce'
Meroitic s' man
Fonge sunu id.
Bini eso 'someone'
Kikongo sa,se,si 'father'
Swahili (m)zee 'old person'
Egyptian sa 'man'
Manding si,se 'descendant,posterity,family'
Azer se 'individual, person'
Obenga (1978) also illustrated the unity between the verbs 'to come, to be, to arrive':
Language
Egyptian ii, ey Samo, Loma dye
Mbosi yaa Bisa gye
Sidama/Omo wa Wolof nyeu
Caffino wa Peul yah, yade
There is t =/= d, highlight the alternation patterns of many Paleo-African consonants including b =/= p, l =/= r ,and g =/= k.
The Egyptian term for grain is 0 sa #. This corresponds to many African terms for seed,grain:
Galla senyi
Malinke se , si
Sumerian se
Egyptian sen 'granary'
Kannanda cigur
Bozo sii
Bambara sii
Daba sisin
Somali sinni
Loma sii
Susu sansi
Oromo sanyi
Dime siimu
Egyptian ssr 'corn'
id. ssn 'lotus plant'
id. sm 'herb, plant'
id. isw 'weeds'
In conclusion, Diop has done much to encourage the African recovery of their history. His theories on linguistics has inspired many African scholars to explain and elaborate the African role in the history of Africa and the world. This has made his work important to our understanding of the role of Black people in History.
Here we have shown the methods Anta Diop has used to rediscover the long and great history of Africans in Africa and the world. This methods allow us to reconstruct the Paleo-African culture formerly practiced by Africans in Africa, Asia and the Americas.
It also shows that West Africans and Cushitic speakers share common terms for the principal items of culture because they were all part of the Pan-African Egyptian civilization.
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, etc. 1st generation.
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-Northern Sudanese
AA actor Blair Underwood
Imhotep
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Egyptian Basenji Dog Hieroglyph
Amenemhet
and more African hair braiding.
