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103,887 views Jun 29, 2023 #NationalGeographic #FullEpisode Dr. Ramadan Hussein discovers the tombs of three priests with lavish mummies. One thing connects them all — the worship of a mysterious snake goddess.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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Wow! I just saw the program and there are some important things I want to discuss.
First off, R.I.P. to Dr. Ramadan Badry Hussein. He was another good Egyptian Egyptologist and from what I've heard pleasant to work with unlike some others.
I remember reading about some discoveries he made in in the Saqqara Project but didn't get all the details.
So these two priests Ayput and Tjanimit were Libyans. In the program Dr. Hussein pointed out the facial features in the anthropomorphic coffin doesn't look Egyptian because of the narrow nose and thin lips. Facial features aside, I could tell by the names themselves since the names look more Libyan than Egyptian. Ayput for example was the name of a 23rd (Libyan) Dynasty prince. One thing I notice is that male Libyan names sound effeminate to me compared to Egyptian male names so I thought the name Tjanimit was female to begin with. So maybe there is something to the Libyan language and naming system that differs from Egyptians.
Second and most significant is the fact that these women held the title of hm-ntr or 'priest' instead of the female specific hmt-ntr or 'priestess'. This holds many implications since as many Egyptological historiographers have noted, the frequency of the title hmt-ntr in Egyptian texts decreases drastically in occurrence from the Middle Kingdom times onward. This has lead many scholars to believe there was a decline of women in the priesthood, but if the Egyptians just chose to use the masculine hm-ntr as a generic for priest of both sexes then that tells a different story.
Third is this enigmatic snake goddess Nuit-Sha'es. There are 4 glyphs to her name. There are two versions of her name the first one in the priests' sarcophagi as highlighted in 20:18 of the program and the second version carved on the Luxor temple in 21:45. The first is the sign for settlement or town 'nuit', the second is a rectangular pool 'sh' but the third in the first version I'm unsure. The third glyph in temple is the glyph for 's' so I'm deducing that it's the same meaning on the sarcophagus which has to be the glyph for door bolt. The last glyph on both is a determinative for snake but the one on the temple seems to be closer for that conveying goddess. Dr. Salima Ikram suggests that this goddess was a form or manifestation of the goddess Mut. She like many Egyptologists agree that the Egyptians were pantheistic whereby divinity is manifested by multiple beings and a more powerful goddess may be incarnated in lesser goddesses. Though it is also likely that a process of assimilation takes place where more power deities assimilate the identities of other deities of certain localities. We see this all the time in Egyptian history. So if Nuit-Sha'es was originally an independent goddess in her own right where was her original cult based? From the quick research I did, most references to her are found in Lower Egypt in Menefer (Memphis) and in Saqqara.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Facial features aside, I could tell by the names themselves since the names look more Libyan than Egyptian. Ayput for example was the name of a 23rd (Libyan) Dynasty prince. One thing I notice is that male Libyan names sound effeminate to me compared to Egyptian male names so I thought the name Tjanimit was female to begin with. So maybe there is something to the Libyan language and naming system that differs from Egyptians.
Wouldn't their language have been related to modern Berber languages? Maybe the language of modern Siwa Berbers would hold some clues as to what these ancient Libyan languages were like.
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^ Modern Berber languages are actually relatively young and not that diverse. This is why linguists postulate an ancestral 'Libyco-Berber' group that was larger and more diverse from which Berber derives. It's more likely that extinct languages of this group perhaps on the 'Libyco' branch more represented the Libyans the Egyptians had contact with in the Western Desert. From what I recall most of the glosses we have from the Libyans' language comes from names and their affinities with modern Berber are very slight.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I also believe there is more to the Delta's relationship to the Libyans than we realize, as noted by Tukuler and I here.
Also, I am curious about this serpent goddess Niwt-Sha'es. Niwt means settled community or city and Sha'es sounds like fate, so her name means fate of the community or settlement.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I also believe there is more to the Delta's relationship to the Libyans than we realize, as noted by Tukuler and I here.
There are linguistics who claim that Semitic and Berber language families are siblings within Afroasiatic, so I can see them both having a common ancestor in the Nile Delta (with Egyptic on the other hand originating further upriver, perhaps in Upper Egypt).
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Dr. Salima Ikram suggests that this goddess was a form or manifestation of the goddess Mut. She like many Egyptologists agree that the Egyptians were pantheistic whereby divinity is manifested by multiple beings and a more powerful goddess may be incarnated in lesser goddesses.
I do remember reading that the lion goddess Sekhmet was in fact another aspect of Hetheru (Hathor). For that matter, the cat goddess Bastet also got started as a warlike lion goddess similar to Sekhmet. Man, Egyptian mythology can be even weirder than most people appreciate, especially when you account for how it evolved over time.
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^ Yes, though most clade reconstructions I've seen have Egyptic in between Libyco-Berber and Semitic or rather Pre-Semitic since Proto-Semitic is hypothetically derived from a larger branch.
I'm not familiar with Berber linguistic features the way Tukuler or Wally was, but I remember one source saying that the names that resemble modern Berber the most are those of the Meshwesh people. Names of the Libu seem to be intermediate in likeness between Berber and Egyptian. Perhaps Antalas being an Amazigh speaker would be helpful but I doubt he's interested in anything outside of racial arguments.
So the prevailing hypothesis is that the Tjehenu people who lived closest to the Western Delta since predynastic times then would be linguistically closest to the Egyptians, especially the Delta folk who I believe were of the same cultural milieu.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Maybe there is a connection between predynastic Lower Egyptians and Libyans on the one hand and the Capsians of Northwest Africa on the other? Maybe the recently published, potentially Capsian-influenced Skhirat genomes could give us a clue as to what the predynastic inhabitants of northern Egypt and Libya looked like at the genetic level?
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^ Yes, in the Tjehenu vs. Romitu thread I cited archaeologists who've noted affinities between Capsian Culture and Neolithic Delta Cultures like Faiyum A and Merimde.
I also wonder if this snake goddess Niut-Shaes is also a local Delta deity that may have Libyan connections. I say this because the uraes or iaret royal cobra head ornament symbolizing seems to suggest delta origins. The word iaret means 'she rears' but is etymologically related to the word yrt meaning 'eye' but also 'action' or 'force'. Thus iaret as a feminine term is akin to the Sanskrit word shakti also meaning energy and is embodied by female deities, the same way iaret is a determinative for female deity. Also since yrt also means eye and the iaret is placed on the brow it is very suggestive of the third eye concept.
The reason why I associate the iaret with Delta folk and probably Libyans is because one myth in particular about the origins of the iaret which claims the goddess Aset used her magic to tame a cobra which she used crown her brother-husband Ausar as king of Egypt and this cobra would sit upon his head and spit fiery venom to enemies.
But I've also noticed Old Kingdom depictions of Tjehenu captives who have what appears to be a small coiffure or tuft of hair above their foreheads that look to be shaped as cobras.
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I can’t see the cobra thingy that well in the first image, but I do see what you’re talking about in the second. I wonder if that’s actually part of a headband of some kind?
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^ I posted a link to a close up of the first image, here it is again.
It's hard to make out because it looks chiseled over. Many of the ureaus like forms on Libyan heads look chiseled out, perhaps because it was considered blasphemous for anyone except members of the royal family to sport them.
But from close up images, I don't see any headbands unless they are hidden under the hair. If not it could be a styled form of bangs.
It's just something I thought of when these Libyan priests were associated with a serpent deity.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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