2020 Insights from ancient DNA analysis of Egyptian human mummies: clues to disease and kinship
Yehia Z Gad, Naglaa Abu-Mandil Hassan, Dalia M Mousa, Fayrouz A Fouad, Safaa G El-Sayed, Marwa A Abdelazeem, Samah M Mahdy, Hend Y Othman, Dina W Ibrahim, Rabab Khairat ... Show more
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Notice the K ancestry every Amarna in the chart above has it except Amenhotep III who is H2b
Also notice Yuya is YDNA G2, his mtDNA is K and his wife Thuya
This mtDNA K ancestry flows down to Akhenaten and Tutankhamun
Akenhatens religious views were rejected after the Amarna period and all the Amarna kings were stricken off the king's lists by the kings that followed
More detail in another article also by Yehia Z Gad
Variable kinship patterns in Neolithic Anatolia revealed by ancient genomes Reyhan Yaka et al, 2021 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2021.03.050 Volume 31, Issue 11, 7 June 2021, Pages 2455-2468.e18
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We see some of the same in Neolithic Anatolia as in the maternal side of the Amarna and Yuya's Y DNA G-2 Amenhotep's maternal H is in there as well as the rest of them K and Y Chromosome has G2 and G2 was Yuya's paternal group
there is also a spread here in date THe samples in this Neolithic chart dates between 8,225 BC and 6,240
and the Amarna are 1550 BC–1290 BC starting about 4.700 years after these Anatolian remains, new 2021 article (note they don't mention Egypt in the article it's about Anatolia) _____________________________
wiki
The more ancient evidence of Haplogroup K has been found in the remains of three individuals from Upper Palaeolithic Magdalenian of Spain with 11950 years and in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site of Tell Ramad, Syria, dating from c. 6000 BC.[17] The clade was also discovered in skeletons of early farmers in Central Europe dated to around 5500-5300 BC, at percentages that were nearly double the percentage present in modern Europe.
nature communications, 2019 articles article Article Open Access Published: 19 March 2019 Late Pleistocene human genome suggests a local origin for the first farmers of central Anatolia Michal Feldman, Eva Fernández-Domínguez
Here, we report new genome-wide data from eight prehistoric humans (Fig. 1a, Table 1, and Supplementary Table 1), including the first Epipaleolithic Anatolian hunter-gatherer sequenced to date (labeled AHG; directly dated to 13,642–13,073 cal BCE
The uniparental marker analysis placed AHG within the mitochondrial sub-haplogroup K2b and within the Y-chromosome haplogroup C1a2, both rare in present-day Eurasians (Table 1 and Supplementary Data 6). Mitochondrial Haplogroup K2 has so far not been found in Paleolithic hunter-gatherers20. However, Y-haplogroup C1a2 has been reported in some of the earliest European hunter-gatherers8,17,21. The early farmers belong to common early Neolithic mitochondrial (N1a, U3 and K1a) and Y chromosome types (C and G2a), with the exception of the Levantine BAJ001, which represents the earliest reported individual carrying the mitochondrial N1b group (Table 1 and Supplementary Data 6).
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However on the Y side of the Amarana, R1b we do not see this Anatolia element
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: From the time of Akhenatens or Tuankhamuns reign a letter of an egyptian queen is known from the Hittite archives. In this letter she asks the Hittites King for one of his sons as a new Pharao because her husband died and she herself got no son.
The identity of the queen is unknown, perhaps the 18th dynasty was related to the Hittites, the origin of the R-M269-lineage could point to this.
quote: From the time of Akhenatens or Tuankhamuns reign a letter of an egyptian queen is known from the Hittite archives. In this letter she asks the Hittites King for one of his sons as a new Pharao because her husband died and she herself got no son.
The identity of the queen is unknown, perhaps the 18th dynasty was related to the Hittites, the origin of the R-M269-lineage could point to this.
that is a private testing company trying to sell kits to Europeans who hasn't updated their information since 2010. They did not do any of the sampling, got dtat in a leak and called the clade R-269 but the official 2020 analysis ten years later did not determine a specific clade of R1b and some clades of R1b were barely known about at that time
this is the primary peer reviewed journal research >> _______________________________________
Insights from ancient DNA analysis of Egyptian human mummies: clues to disease and kinship
Yehia Z Gad, Naglaa Abu-Mandil Hassan, Dalia M Mousa, Fayrouz A Fouad, Safaa G El-Sayed, Marwa A Abdelazeem, Samah M Mahdy, Hend Y Othman, Dina W Ibrahim, Rabab Khairat ... Show more Human Molecular Genetics, Volume 30, Issue R1, 1 March 2021, Pages R24–R28, https://doi.org/10.1093/hmg/ddaa223
Published: 15 October 2020
A 4-generation pedigree of Tutankhamun’s immediate lineage and the identity of his ancestors were established. The Royal male lineage was the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b that was passed from the grandparent (Amenhotep III) to the father (KV55, Akhenaten) to the grandchild (Tutankhamen).
quote: From the time of Akhenatens or Tuankhamuns reign a letter of an egyptian queen is known from the Hittite archives. In this letter she asks the Hittites King for one of his sons as a new Pharao because her husband died and she herself got no son.
The identity of the queen is unknown, perhaps the 18th dynasty was related to the Hittites, the origin of the R-M269-lineage could point to this.
quote: "But the work drew criticism from some ancient-DNA experts, who claimed that the results could be explained by contamination from modern humans. The ensuing row deepened a long-standing rift among researchers who aim to coax genetic secrets from the mummified denizens of bygone civilizations. “For sure it is a highly debated field,” says Carsten Pusch of the University of Tübingen in Germany, who was part of the team that analyzed King Tut’s DNA. “The tone of the arguments is sometimes a little bit strong."
quote: "Scientists at Zurich-based DNA genealogy centre, iGENEA, say they have reconstructed the DNA profile of the boy Pharaoh based on a film that was made for the Discovery Channel."
[...]
"Carsten Pusch, a geneticist at the University of Tubingen in Germany, was part of the team that constructed King Tut's DNA from samples taken from his mummified remains, and those of his relatives.
Pusch said that iGENEA's claims are 'simply impossible' because they did not publish the data for Tut's Y-chomosome - found only in males - which would reveal his male descendants, and accused the company of a marketing gimmick."
Note: if you can find this other Gad article it has more also
55. Gad, Y.Z., Ismail, S., Fathalla, D., Khairat, R., Fares, S., Gad, A.Z., Saad, R., Moustafa, A., ElShahat, E., Abu Mandil, N.H. et al. (2020) Maternal and paternal lineages in King Tutankhamun’s family. In Kamrin, J., Bárta, M., Ikram, S., Lehner, M. and Megahed, M. (eds), Guardian of Ancient Egypt: Essays in Honor of Zahi Hawass. Czech Institute of Egyptology, Faculty of Arts, Charles University, Prague, (in press).
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Yes I also wanted to point out the new study that confirmed it because I initially also found the r1b suspicious.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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Yes I also wanted to point out the new study that confirmed it because I initially also found the r1b suspicious.
Cruciani discovered R1b-V88 around 2009 and published results in 2010. Articles immediately after and even a few years after did not always take notice of it
european journal of human genetics articles article Published: 06 January 2010 Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages Fulvio Cruciani
Among the Niger-Congo-speaking populations, the frequency of the haplogroup R-V88 ranged between 0.0 and 66.7%. Outside central Africa, haplogroup R-V88 was only observed in Afroasiatic-speaking populations from northern Africa, with frequencies ranging from 0.3% in Morocco, to 3.0% in Algeria, and to 11.5% in Egypt, where a particularly high frequency (26.9%) was observed among the Berbers from the Siwa Oasis.
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The exact reason why that R1b-V88 is at that high frequency in Siwa Berbers can be speculated but it remains unknown
and it is unknown if that R1b in the Amarnas of the 18th dynasty is R1b-V88 or not
Nevertheless it was recorded in those berbers in Siwa who have genetics that different in some respects from most Berbers in the Maghreb
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Notice the E-M81 frequency of these Berbers^^^ in comparison to other berbers
"berber", the term itself, subjective
Note how the U6 is nil although 18% U5 (see Djehutynakht )
So we see the R1b there and there's that 11.5% mtDNA K but nit the U6 or M81
The whole things is complex and not easy to make predictable assumptions about
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Yes I also wanted to point out the new study that confirmed it because I initially also found the r1b suspicious.
As The Lioness has pointe out. r1b itself is not as suspicious as appear. Hg R1b is associated with Berbers as well. Namely the Siwa from Northwest Egypt and those from the Sahara and Sahel region and associated Afrasan speakers..
I think it spread during the Green Sahara, or before.
quote:
We find that the coalescence age of the trans-Saharan haplogroups dates back to the last Green Sahara, while most northern African or sub-Saharan clades expanded locally in the subsequent arid phase.
In spite of their genetic differentiation, however, northern and sub-Saharan Africa share at least four patrilineages at different frequencies, namely A3-M13, E-M2, E-M78 and R-V88.
The peopling of the last Green Sahara revealed by high-coverage resequencing of trans-Saharan patrilineages, by D’Atanasio, Trombetta, Bonito, et al., Genome Biology (2018) 19:20.
posted
^^ you have this post up on the paternal lineages of some Tuaregs. Their maternal haplogroups are considered more Eurasian (39%)in Pereira's other article. (haplogroups H1, H3 and V,) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987384/ This doesn't cover Tuaregs in every country they are in just 3. So we see out of Burkina Faso, Niger and Mali the only one showing R1b was Niger, 6 people out of 31 in Niger Tuareg. I wouldn't call it insignificant though. Looking at the date of the article 2010 that was the same year that Cruciani discovered R1b-V88 so these researchers on Tuareg in the same year may not have not caught up yet. Here they just call it by the name of the parent R-M343 which is first stage of R1b It can be called that but it could have been one of the the specific clades of that, R1b-V88.
Haplogroup V is a relatively rare mtDNA haplogroup, occurring in around 4% of native Europeans.[4] Its highest concentration is among the Saami people of northern Fennoscandia (~59%). It has been found at a frequency of approximately 10% among the Maris of the Volga-Ural region, leading to the suggestion that this region might be the source of the V among the Saami.[5][6] Haplogroup V has been observed at higher than average levels among Cantabrian people (15%) of northern Iberia,[7] and among the adjacent Basque (10.4%).[8]
The divergence time for the Sami haplogroup V sequences is estimated by Max Ingman and Ulf Gyllensten at 7.600 years ago. But there is a difference within the Sami group in Sweden according to their study. North Sami (Sami in the North of Swedish Lapland) belong to haplogroup V with 58.6% and South Sami (Sami in the South of Swedish Lapland) within reindeer herding to 37.0% and South Sami outside reindeer herding/other occupation to 8.7%. That can be compared with Sami in Norway that has a 33.1% belonging to haplogroup V and Sami in Finland to 37.7%. Sami in Finland and South Sami in Sweden has the same percentage belonging to haplogroup V Haplogroup V is also found in parts of Northwest Africa. It is mainly concentrated among the Tuareg inhabiting the Gorom-Gorom area in Burkina Faso (21%), Sahrawi in the Western Sahara (17.9%), and Berbers of Matmata, Tunisia (16.3%). The rare V7a subclade occurs among Algerians in Oran (1.08%) and Reguibate Sahrawi (1.85%)
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ you have this post up on the paternal lineages of some Tuaregs. Their maternal haplogroups are considered more Eurasian (39%)in Pereira's other article. (haplogroups H1, H3 and V,) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987384/ This doesn't cover Tuaregs in every country they are in just 3. So we see out of Burkina Faso, Niger and Mali the only one showing R1b was Niger, 6 people out of 31 in Niger Tuareg.
The conversation is about Rb1 isn't it? And I am not sure that Hg H and V are actually "Eurasian" as they claim.
The trans-Sahara and Sahel encompasses all you the groups you've mentioned.
Can you explain why all these groups "back migrated"? We need to take in account that populations were very small, up to a few thousands, but more likely a few hundred.
I include 3 sources for you as confirmation.
Historical Estimates of World Population
(Population in millions. When lower and upper estimates are the same they are shown under "Lower.")
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
If the Amarnas are a foreign male dynasty, their nrY indicates Gabon to Lake Tschad as point of origin. See D'atanasio on R1b in Africa where no Peninsulars are tabled.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ you have this post up on the paternal lineages of some Tuaregs. Their maternal haplogroups are considered more Eurasian (39%)in Pereira's other article. (haplogroups H1, H3 and V,) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987384/ This doesn't cover Tuaregs in every country they are in just 3. So we see out of Burkina Faso, Niger and Mali the only one showing R1b was Niger, 6 people out of 31 in Niger Tuareg.
The conversation is about Rb1 isn't it? And I am not sure that Hg H and V are actually "Eurasian" as they claim.
The trans-Sahara and Sahel encompasses all you the groups you've mentioned.
Secondarily. We have already talked about R1b of the Amarnas. But we haven't discussed that mtDNA K that was also reported in that 2020 DNA analysis by Gad Then this new article on Neolithic Anatolia came out and I noticed it had K and H, 8,225 BC and 6,240 BC and it also had the Y DNA G2 and is the same group as Yuya
quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber: Hg R1b is associated with Berbers as well. Namely the Siwa from Northwest Egypt and those from the Sahara and Sahel region and associated Afrasan speakers..
I don't know why you are telling by this like you are informing me of something right after a post I made that has a chart showing R1b of the Siwa
However the K of the Amarna's brother is not G or C or H3 (not the maternal H) Instead the K's new brother is R1b, clade not declared
An exception is Amenhotep III as per K Instead he's mtDNA H, that is also on the Neolitic Anatolia chart
But as regards K if you look at the ancestry So far it looks like it may have come in with Thuya (her husband also had this on his maternal side) and he's G on his Y side You don't see this today in the Nile valley, it's dominated by E lineages and Jessica L Saunier et al. in the journal Forensic Science International did a study of the mtDNA of 277 modern Egyptians and found
R0 (31.4%) L3 (12.3%); and Asian origin (n = 33) including M (6.9%) T (9.4%) U (9.0%) J (7.6%) N (5.1%) K (4.7%) L2 (3.6%) L1 (2.5%) I (3.2%) W (0.7%) X (1.4%); African origin (n = 57) including L0 (2.2%)
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there is a little K there 4% but a lot more R0 and L3
It is now known that K is a subclade of U8 with an estimated age of c. 12,000 years BP. (González, Ana M (2006). "The mitochondrial lineage U8a reveals a Paleolithic settlement in the Basque country)
^^ so here we see U8 a couple of times on the right column of the chart, a few Ks and also a couple of Hs Now we know we can't write off K an H as late period because it was found in the Amarna
and the oldest mummy in Egypt tested for DNA was the 11-12th dynasty mummified head of a male noble, Djehutynakht. No Y reported. his mtDNA was U5. Interestingly 18% of modern Siwa also carried U5 according to Coudray's study of modern berber populations (although most of then are who are U are U6 like in the 15 Kya Taforalt, Morocco)
I'm not going to be discussing "back migration" in a broader way. This thread is specifically about the Amarna and the similarity to Neolithic Anatolia DNA 5000 years + earlier A blanket statement about "back migration" or lack thereof is too general. It's on a case by case basis __________________________
wikipedia,
Haplogroup K
Haplogroup K appears in Central Europe, Southern Europe, Northern Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, South Asia and West Asia and in populations with such an ancestry.
Overall the mtDNA haplogroup K is found in about 6% of the population of Europe and the Near East, but it is more common in certain of these populations. Approximately 16% of the Druze of Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, belong to haplogroup K.[6] It is also found among 8% of Palestinians.[7] Additionally, K reaches a level of 17% in Kurdistan.[8]
Approximately 32% of people with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry are in haplogroup K. This high percentage points to a genetic bottleneck occurring some 100 generations ago.[6] Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. Thus it is possible to detect three individual female ancestors, who were thought to be from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe.[9] A 2013 study however suggests these clades to instead originate from Western Europe.[10]
Except for Ashkenazim, K appears to be highest in the Morbihan (17.5%) and Périgord-Limousin (15.3%) regions of France, and in Norway and Bulgaria (13.3%).[11] The level is 12.5% in Belgium, 11% in Georgia and 10% in Austria and Great Britain.[8]
Haplogroup K is also found among Gurage (10%),[7] Syrians (9.1%),[7] Afar (6.3%),[7] Zenata Berbers (4.11%),[12] Reguibate Sahrawi (3.70%),[12] Oromo (3.3%),[7] Iraqis (2.4%),[7] Saudis (0%-10.5%),[7] Yemenis (0%-9.8%),[7] and Algerians (0%-4.3%).[12]
Derenko et al. (2007) found haplogroup K in many samples of Iranic, Turkic, Mongolic, and Tungusic peoples of central Eurasia, including 6.8% (3/44) of a sample of Tajiks, 6.7% (6/90) of a sample of Altai Kizhi, 3.7% (3/82) of a sample of Persians, 2.7% (2/73) of a sample of West Evenks from the Krasnoyarsk region, 2.7% (3/110) of a sample of Kalmyks, 2.1% (1/47) of a sample of Mongolians, 2.0% (2/99) of a sample of Khamnigans, 1.9% (1/53) of a sample of Teleuts, 1.4% (4/295) of a sample of Buryats, and 1.2% (1/82) of a sample of Shors.[13] Min-Sheng Peng et al. found haplogroup K1 in 10.3% (7/68) of a sample of Kyrgyz from Taxkorgan, 7.6% (5/66) of a sample of Wakhi from Taxkorgan, 5.8% (5/86) of a sample of Sarikoli from Taxkorgan, 3.7% (1/27) of a sample of Uyghur from Artux, and 2.0% (1/50) of a sample of Pamiri from Gorno-Badakhshan. In eastern China, mtDNA haplogroup K has been found in 1.3% (1/149 K1a13, 1/149 K2a5) of a sample of Barga Mongols in Hulunbuir[14] and in 0.9% of a sample of Beijing Han.
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posted
@the lioness, do yo have information on the distribution of industries correlating with these Haplogroups?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^ I read the source alleging Tut's uniparental ancestry, and they use only STRs not the actual SNPs. Now I'm not automatically discounting their results yet, but like Tukuler I will take it like a grain of salt. We reviewed results on Amarna ancestry based on STRs before ala the defunct DNA Tribes which postulated affinities with African Great Lakes populations.
Now that said, another reason why I question the Neolithic Anatolian origin claims is due to one study by Feldman et al. 2019 called Ancient DNA sheds light on the genetic origins of early Iron Age Philistines. Despite the title, the paper does comparisons with other populations in the eastern Mediterranean from Neolithic to the Iron Age. What's funny is the troll Antalas insists the Egyptians to be descended from EEF or ANF having high amounts of said ancestries yet the paper I cite says otherwise.
^ Even in the PCA, Egyptians along with Natufians and Neolithic Levantine ethne form their own cluster on the lower right of the graph quite a distance from the actual Anatolian Neolithic Farmers much less the first farmers of Europe. Of course the study's Egyptian samples come from the New Kingdom, Late Period (Abusir mummies), and Ptolemaic eras and not the Amarna dynasty per say. But I find it very hard to believe that the Amarna dynasty would have been totally of foreign provenance in contrast to the native population, especially considering how xenophobic the Egyptians were as part of their religion much less having foreigners rule over them!
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: What's funny is the troll Antalas insists the Egyptians to be descended from EEF or ANF having high amounts of said ancestries yet the paper I cite says otherwise.
You call people "troll" to instigate off topic conflict. It's a subjective and unnecessarily provoking, a weak, puerile tactic
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ I called him a troll because that's what someone who consistently ignores evidence and argues unsubstantiated nonsense for personal agenda is! It is HE who started conflict on multiple threads. But at least he is more honest unlike YOU who apparently feels insulted by the label for obvious reasons.
Or perhaps you could just address the points I made in my above post in regards to the very topic of your thread?
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I called him a troll because that's what someone who consistently ignores evidence and argues unsubstantiated nonsense for personal agenda is! It is HE who started conflict on multiple threads. But at least he is more honest unlike YOU who apparently feels insulted by the label for obvious reasons.
Or perhaps you could just address the points I made in my above post in regards to the very topic of your thread?
Ignoring evidence or having a different opinion on it is not "trolling". "Trolling" is a person deliberately trying to agitate someone by bringing in something completely off topic and name calling or using some other personal remark. So calling someone a "troll" is name calling and is trolling itself in some cases. You and Brandon just called me a troll. I spend a lot of time reading articles and making annotated charts, quoting science articles, putting in the URLS why should I respond "the points" you made after being insulted? And when you call me a troll other people start doing it. So if I am troll stay out of of my threads, make your own
You are a person that can never be trusted You come around friendly sometimes discussing topics but it's inevitable that eventually out of nowhere you will start making personal jabs. That's what trolling actually is. And I am only using this word because this is your lingo and other members follow what you do. This is what you do and you mix in the jabs with other conversation Then you corrupt the meaning of the word "Troll" to trying to discredit a persons point of view. You convince people who have a perceived minority point of view not held by most others that they are "trolls". So because people who might agree with your point of view, then if you troll against somebody (throwing in personal jabs in the middle of a debate) they may go along with you calling the person what you are actually doing, they just accept it because they are on your side of some topic and they are not smart enough to know the difference
You were not raised with integrity so you don't know what it is. All you know is taking one side or the other and perceive everything dualistically. I've observed this for years Certain people, they regain your trust - but they always wind up stabbing you in the back without warning. First with that old thread bump. Then with this "trolling thing" You act friendly and then you start throwing darts, This is why you get Clyde and Xyyman so agitated. It's the back stabbing ,crossing the line and then going back and forth.
Go write your own three thread. I'll help you with the topic and then I'll stay out of it "Why the maternal DNA of the Amarna was no Similarity to Ancient Anatolians"
Why do you know that to be true? Because to you the idea outside input to Africa of any kind in Ancient times is instantly racist. That is your polemic
Me I try not have polemics. I saw K while looking at another topic and then noticed that the Amarna maternal was also K Yet looking at Abusir there are only a couple of instances of K
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posted
Both Antalas and Lioness are Trolls, Lioness is a troll with power...
Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial.Trolling online can be seen in many different forms. More potent acts of trolling are blatant harassment or off topic banter;[citation needed] however, the term internet troll has also been applied to information warfare, hate speech, and even political activism.
The argument of the Black Africanity of Ancient Egypt is SETTLED!
OVER, DONE, FINITO
To ignore that is to TROLL
Picture spam wars to show that some historical egyptian person or another does not look "stereotypically" west african ( Lioness looking at you_) is troll behavior
West African's don't have ONE look, there are many different ethnicities in West Africa today who are from the Nile Valley, speak languages that are Nilo Saharan, Afro Asiatic etc who also happen to be the ancestors of many Africans in the diaspora..
There is a decade of evidence of the Unity of African cultures both here on this site and offsite
If you are interested you will find it...
To continue to allow this behavior to occur here will only serve to make this ancient website obsolete...which in fact it already is..
THE WORLD HAS MOVED ON!!..
This website is being used for fake news, propaganda wars that Antalas can't win on other social media spheres.. why else would a young person come here to such an anachronistic place..
because his ego needs soothing after getting his arse kicked by younger afrocentrists with more vim and vigor elsewhere...
EGO is always at the center of this thing..
Antalas finds himself in Europe among the real EUROWHITES.... and of course suffers an identity crisis a need to explain his own personal life failures..
and he is channeling that energy at other Africans for trying to steal his "ethnicity" culture...
All this bouncing back and forth about not being sub saharan african ( not that that is a real thing by the way) is not going to affect the racists one bit... the EUROWHITES will only accept brown north Africans on the books because it is useful to THEM politically not because they think in anyway shape or form brown north Africans are equal to them. the real scientific racists only accepts the NORDICS.... honorary Caucasians ( not that Caucasians is a real thing either ) are just TOOLS...
and all you are doing is spreading scientific racist ideas for their benefit..
Black African Origins of Ancient Egyptian Culture with Thomas Brophy 11,576 views • Mar 4, 2020 • Thomas Brophy, PhD, is president of the California Institute of Human
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: [QB] Both Antalas and Lioness are Trolls, Lioness is a troll with power...
Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial.Trolling online can be seen in many different forms. More potent acts of trolling are blatant harassment or off topic banter;[citation needed] however, the term internet troll has also been applied to information warfare, hate speech, and even political activism.
The argument of the Black Africanity of Ancient Egypt is SETTLED!
OVER, DONE, FINITO
To ignore that is to TROLL
^ this is exactly what I'm talking about
the polemicist is set in their ways. Unlike being scientific minded that something might come along and force them to change their assumptions the polemicist has settled in to a permanent bias so they only accept new information that supports but they will reject anything new that doesn't. So if they are in a forum with a couple of other polemicists of their type anybody else you is not lock step with the polemic is called a "troll"
and they also group people together simplistically. They force people into one of two sides and then they stereotype all the people outside of their polemic list as the same
It's general group-think I've seen it in the workplace many times
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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9:33 it is settled! If BBC says it from the home country of leading white supremacist/racist/eugenicist... it must be true then..
but if you want to continue a NON debate.. don't let me stop you.. this site becomes a purveyor of fake news/conspiracy/BS...
And don't forget to go back and watch the 6 hours of video I posted above and watch White Professors from America tell you the exact same thing
Pay attention the geneticists.. they are super obsessed with Steppe ancestry right now... that is where they are looking for themselves at the moment...
The battle is not black ancient Egypt... it's when did Steppe DNA get into India? Where is the genesis of Indo European languages
This debate you are having here is so last century.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
^ Look I don't want to siderail this whole thread based on who is a troll. But I already stated how Antalas irrational behavior is what makes him a troll and NOT because he has a different opinion. I think Lioness is sensitive to the term for obvious reasons.
So how about anyone address the study I just cited. The autosomal pattern of the Egyptian samples puts them in the same cluster as Natufians and Neolithic Levantines which is different from the Neolithic Anatolians and Balkan First Farmers, in contrast to his previous claims.
In regards to this topic, the claims made about the Amarna ancestry is based on STR estimates only. Again, this is not to discount them outright but IF it is true then the Amarna family are outright foreigners who differ from the native Egyptian populace, yet their skeletal morphology which has been studied for decades states otherwise!
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: So how about anyone address the study I just cited. The autosomal pattern of the Egyptian samples puts in the same cluster as Natufian and Neolithic Levant which is different from the Neolithic Anatolians and Balkan First Farmers, in contrast to his previous claims.
I remember Swenet claiming that ancient Egyptian ancestry could be modeled as a mixture between EEF and various additional layers of African ancestry. Though, personally, it makes more sense to me that any EEF ancestry in AE would be contributed indirectly via admixture with Levantine (and possibly coastal Libyan) populations. Unless there is evidence for a predominantly EEF population from Europe crossing the Mediterranean and admixing with Egyptians in the delta in predynastic times that I haven't read about yet.
posted
^ I concur. Although I'm not discounting the possibility of the admixture occurring in predynastic times, even Swenet postulates that larger scale admixture with Asiatics likely began in the Middle Kingdom (Hyksos?) and lasted into the New Kingdom.
Note how in the PCA the New Kingdom sample along with other Egyptians samples cluster with the Levant Neolithic and Levant Chalcolithic samples even more than the Natufians, and thus closer in proximity to the other Eastern Mediterraneans! If the Egyptians recieved their EEF directly from the Aegean populations, then they would cluster much more closely to those populations but they don't!
This reminds me of the results from the 2006 Brace et al. craniometric study
Of course Brace's study is based solely on metric features as opposed to the more gene-pool based nonmetric features. That said, certain commonalities can be seen especially in regards to the Natufians outlying position. Again, all contrary to Antalas's claims.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The collection of ancient Egyptian DNA that isn't late period is very small So as for the genetics of the Ancient Egyptians very little can be said about them as a group as per DNA
The Amarana thus far are of mtDNA K and one instance of H and YDNA R1b and one instance of G
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Haplogroup L-M20 is a human Y-DNA haplogroup, which is defined by SNPs M11, M20, M61 and M185. As a secondary descendant of haplogroup K and a primary branch of haplogroup LT, haplogroup L currently has the alternative phylogenetic name of K1a, and is a sibling of haplogroup T (a.k.a. K1b).
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"The Elder Lady" First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.
^All the above are the alleged ancestors of Tutankhamun yet they don't have any 'Anatolian' features.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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