Semitic Museum Published on May 23, 2017 Donald Reid, Professor Emeritus, Department of History, Georgia State University; Affiliate Professor, Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilization, University of Washington
W. E. B. Du Bois, Education, and Archaeology in Egypt 1,134 views
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W. E. B. Du Bois, Education, and Archaeology in Egypt
Semitic Museum Published on May 31, 2017 Vanessa Davies, Visiting Scholar Researcher, Phoebe A. Hearst Museum of Anthropology, University of California, Berkeley
@ Doug M, It's scary crazy seeing two typical Egyptian men above, yet the Abusir reconstruction is bigoted.
@ Yatunde Lisa, thanks. I will look at this later when time suits.
Posted by Yatunde Lisa (Member # 22253) on :
@Ish Gebor
The first presentation is really the best, the speaker breaks down Breasted v. Du Bois and how they basically are having an American conversation on race with Egypt as it's proxy.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
The key to the first video and this "new approach" to Egyptology is to say AE was neither black nor white. What this theoretically means either the AE had no skin color which is not possible or they were between very dark and very light, which is not what they mean. The AE absolutely were aware of skin color as their art clearly shows. But when you question the skin color of reconstructions and reenactments, they claim you are applying modern "racial constructs", as if skin color equals race, which is nonsense. What you are calling out is how they represent the skin color of AE unlike how the AE depicted themselves and unlike a large number of Egyptians to this day.
Same game different day.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
Alicia Keys is black and Sade is black
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: this issue isn't difficult because black is not a culture, ethnicity, language or custom. It referes to skin color. Skin color is a fact of human nature and exists all over the planet.
So how dark must people be to be "black?" You said Alicia Keys is but people of other races can also have her skin tone.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
Alicia Keys is black and Sade is black
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: this issue isn't difficult because black is not a culture, ethnicity, language or custom. It referes to skin color. Skin color is a fact of human nature and exists all over the planet.
So how dark must people be to be "black?" You said Alicia Keys is but people of other races can also have her skin tone.
The issue isn't a "shade" of black. Any population of Africans or black people in the world period have a range of complexions. This goes from India to South Asia to the Pacific and Africa.
Generally we are talking about the natural diversity of skin complexions in populations of African ancestry. And we are talking about the LACK of that same diversity in representations of AE people. They always look like a "generic" Eurasian and nothing like a Nile Valley African. Those are not the same thing. The feature diversity of Nile Valley Africans includes a range of skin colors, just like other African populations in Africa and elsewhere. And of course there is included in that folks with lighter skin.
But these people when they imagine AE they imagine that the only range of diversity is "very light skinned" Eurasian looking. This is the implicit meaning of Brested's "Great White Race" extending into North Africa. It is nonsense and has nothing to do with the actual diversity in phenotypes of Nile Valley people, ancient or modern. You would never know that a large number of Egyptians look like the men I posted if you go by their reconstructions of AE.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] The key to the first video and this "new approach" to Egyptology is to say AE was neither black nor white. What this theoretically means either the AE had no skin color which is not possible or they were between very dark and very light, which is not what they mean.
" or they were between very dark and very light, which is not what they mean."
-- why would that not be what they mean? And who is they?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Detail of the false door of Neferinpu (photo Martin Frouz)
assuming this modern picture of Neferinpu has been European-ized what is the primary motive in doing that ?
a) They know he probably didn't look like that but they changed it anyway because the European artist and researchers like the Egyptian civilization and like to imagine they are descendants of them even though they aren't
b) they knew Neferinpu was black but they don't want blacks to have their ancestors. Blacks should not be connected to powerful images, they need to know their place as lower in status to the European
c) They really think Neferinpu looked like that a
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
Alicia Keys is black and Sade is black
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: this issue isn't difficult because black is not a culture, ethnicity, language or custom. It referes to skin color. Skin color is a fact of human nature and exists all over the planet.
So how dark must people be to be "black?" You said Alicia Keys is but people of other races can also have her skin tone.
assuming this modern picture of Neferinpu has been European-ized what is the primary motive in doing that ?
a) They know he probably didn't look like that but they changed it anyway because the European artist and researchers like the Egyptian civilization and like to imagine they are descendants of them even though they aren't
b) they knew Neferinpu was black but they don't want blacks to have their ancestors. Blacks should not be connected to powerful images, they need to know their place as lower in status to the European
Miroslav Bárta, Professor, Czech Institute of Egyptology
Abusir, the “Place of Osiris,” is a necropolis (burial site) near the Old Kingdom’s city of Memphis, known for its pyramids and sun temples. In this lecture, Miroslav Bárta will provide a comprehensive look at the latest archaeological discoveries at Abusir, dating from different periods of the Old Kingdom (2700–2200 BCE). These individual discoveries shed new light on general processes that led to the rise and eventual decline of the Old Kingdom, the first territorial state in human history.
Don't like the way they have these paintings in the tomb of a dark skinned male but the cover of their publication shows a significantly lighter skinned?
Do something beyond talk at Egyptsearch !!!
Complain to Czech Institute of Egyptology !!!
E-mail martin.odler@ff.cuni.cz
Phone +420 221619611
Posted by Yatunde Lisa (Member # 22253) on :
Did you call?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: Did you call?
just went hardbody in an email
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
She indeed looks a bit like Alicia Keys. Could be the artist subliminally had Alicia in mind.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: @Ish Gebor
The first presentation is really the best, the speaker breaks down Breasted v. Du Bois and how they basically are having an American conversation on race with Egypt as it's proxy.
I am watching it as of now. What I am missing is the witness and account by Mansa Musa. Accounts tell that he was so pround of statues and murals etc. that he left so much gold behind in Egypt, it corrupted the Egyptian economy and Egypt went into a recession for many years.
Posted by Yatunde Lisa (Member # 22253) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: @Ish Gebor
The first presentation is really the best, the speaker breaks down Breasted v. Du Bois and how they basically are having an American conversation on race with Egypt as it's proxy.
I am watching it as of now. What I am missing is the witness and account by Mansa Musa. Accounts tell that he was so pround of statues and murals etc. that he left so much gold behind in Egypt, it corrupted the Egyptian economy and Egypt went into a recession for many years.
I thought Mansa Musa was just showing out for the white womenz
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: @Ish Gebor
The first presentation is really the best, the speaker breaks down Breasted v. Du Bois and how they basically are having an American conversation on race with Egypt as it's proxy.
I am watching it as of now. What I am missing is the witness and account by Mansa Musa. Accounts tell that he was so pround of statues and murals etc. that he left so much gold behind in Egypt, it corrupted the Egyptian economy and Egypt went into a recession for many years.
I thought Mansa Musa was just showing out for the white womenz
Not sure what you mean by "white womenz", can you clarify? Btw, I just saw part two and I am looking at part three of the lectures. I didn't know Du Bois had such important role in this history.
quote: This man [Mansa Musa] ooded Cairo with his gifts. He left no court emir nor holder of a royal of ce without the gift of a load of gold. The people of Cairo made incalculable pro ts out of him and his men in buying and selling and giving and taking. They exchanged gold until they depressed its value in Egypt and caused its price to fall.
Mansa Musa described by al-Umari, quoted in Levtzion & Hopkins 1981: 270–271
