quote:

---

The population history of the Nile has been of considerable recent interest and focuses on two competing hypotheses. The first suggests that the Egyptian dynasties developed in situ from the earlier Predynastic and Neolithic populations represented at sites such as el-Badari. The second scenario suggests that migration of people from western Asia led to the development of the Egyptian state (Petrie, 1920, 1939; Kantor, 1965). In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin (Hassan, 1988). Two recent studies provide evidence for population dynamics in the Nile Valley throughout the Holocene. Zakrzewski (2007) demonstrates evidence for broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement . Several recent analyses of dental variation come to essentially the same conclusion (Irish, 2005, 2006; Schillaci et al., 2009). Thus, in the most general terms, there is strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire. However, the diffusion of agricultural technologies into the Nile from other regions, and the subsequent trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

---

Main points:

1 - In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin
2 - Craniometry (and Dental variation) demonstrate broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement
3 - Strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire with some level of population movement
4 - Trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

So the main point here for us, is the STRONG evidence for population continuity in the Nile region from the late Pleistocene through the Egyptian Empire.

Taken from this study: Body Size, Skeletal Biomechanics, Mobility and Habitual Activity from the Late Palaeolithic to the Mid-Dynastic Nile Valley. Got it from here: (www.) pave.bioanth.cam.ac.uk/pdfs/033-Stock(2011HBTA)NileBiomechSize.pdf (you need to add the www. to the address, the forum doesn't allow me to post the full address)

The study by itself is also interesting as it analyses the consequences on the body of ancient specimens of the transition in the Nile from different lifestyles (hunting-gathering, pastoral, agriculture, etc).

We can also see it here:


The peopling of the Nile was the product of the populations in the A map, from inner Africa, from the South, which expanded in the Sahara and then went back along the Nile to settle down during the desertification of the Sahara in search of greener pastures.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
The problem with the Egyptians is they wasted a lot of energy making useless mountains of stone and gigantic statues of kings.
They were great artists though
 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Typical white perspective and understanding of the world. Tsk! Tsk! Lioness

@ ultimate. No rational person would think AE is anything but indigenous. But I am waiting on proof that migrants came into Egypt during pre-history. What are they basing this hypothesis on?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The problem with the Egyptians is they wasted a lot of energy making useless mountains of stone and gigantic statues of kings.
They were great artists though

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The problem with the Egyptians is they wasted a lot of energy making useless mountains of stone and gigantic statues of kings.
They were great artists though

---

Salty because your Tut = Indian phuckup blew up in
your face?

---

I think brother lamin would agree with me on the imperialism of the Egyptians and their grandiose king's projects. I've made such statements since I began posting




This particular wooden bust could pass for an Indian kid or a North African or Arab.
People get mad when you point out that appearances cross over ethnicities, they inisit it only looks like an African

.


I never said the Egyptains came from India just that some of their art resembles Indians


Sety I


____________________________________________

This depiction of Amenhotep III looking more like a West African



_
 

---

Posted by tropicals redacted (Member # 21621) on :
 
@Amun-Ra

Interesting, thanks.

Found this particularly enlightening:

“The inclusion of both early and late samples from Nubia was a necessity of the current study, which may have some implications for interpretation. Most early work considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically-distinct populations; however, more recent analyses suggest that these populations are not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). A craniometric study found the Kerma population to be morphologically similar to a Lower Egyptian Predynastic population (Keita, 1990). Thus, while they may have existed on the margins of the growing Egyptian empire, their inclusion in comparisons of earlier Nubians and Nile Valley Predynastic samples appear warranted.” (p17)

How did I miss that?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
People get mad when you point out that appearances
cross over ethnicities, they inisit it only looks
like an African

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
People get mad when you point out that appearances
cross over ethnicities, they inisit it only looks
like an African

---

No. You saying that was connected to your whole
"AE were mixed" fairytale which you loved to
spout ad nauseam. What happened? Two analyses of
New Kingdom royal families happened, lol. I have
no problem with you calling the AE mixed. Not if
you apply that across and call Italians and Greeks
mixed in the same vain, which, of course, you
didn't. Not until we confronted you with this
inconsistency in your argument.

---

Ok the Italians, Greeks and Egyptians are all mixed peoples

^^^ there, it's fair now
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


Greece is a country located in Southern Europe, its mainland located at the southern end of the Balkan Peninsula.
Italy is also a peninsula. Dead end outcroppings

Egypt however is at the small land bridge hub between two continents, a small geograpic bottleneck

lioness prodcutions
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
The population history of the Nile (late Pleistocene to Dynastic time)

Below a nice recap of various archeological studies about the regional continuity of the Nile populations. It was taken from a study posted below.

quote:

---

The population history of the Nile has been of considerable recent interest and focuses on two competing hypotheses. The first suggests that the Egyptian dynasties developed in situ from the earlier Predynastic and Neolithic populations represented at sites such as el-Badari. The second scenario suggests that migration of people from western Asia led to the development of the Egyptian state (Petrie, 1920, 1939; Kantor, 1965). In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin (Hassan, 1988). Two recent studies provide evidence for population dynamics in the Nile Valley throughout the Holocene. Zakrzewski (2007) demonstrates evidence for broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement . Several recent analyses of dental variation come to essentially the same conclusion (Irish, 2005, 2006; Schillaci et al., 2009). Thus, in the most general terms, there is strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire. However, the diffusion of agricultural technologies into the Nile from other regions, and the subsequent trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

---

Main points:

1 - In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin
2 - Craniometry (and Dental variation) demonstrate broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement
3 - Strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire with some level of population movement
4 - Trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

So the main point here for us, is the STRONG evidence for population continuity in the Nile region from the late Pleistocene through the Egyptian Empire.

Taken from this study: Body Size, Skeletal Biomechanics, Mobility and Habitual Activity from the Late Palaeolithic to the Mid-Dynastic Nile Valley. Got it from here: (www.) pave.bioanth.cam.ac.uk/pdfs/033-Stock(2011HBTA)NileBiomechSize.pdf (you need to add the www. to the address, the forum doesn't allow me to post the full address)

The study by itself is also interesting as it analyses the consequences on the body of ancient specimens of the transition in the Nile from different lifestyles (hunting-gathering, pastoral, agriculture, etc).

We can also see it here:


The peopling of the Nile was the product of the populations in the A map, from inner Africa, from the South, which expanded in the Sahara and then went back along the Nile to settle down during the desertification of the Sahara in search of greener pastures.

---

^^Good data find. Stock's writing has been noted
before but your article lays out the things in 22
pages- not a summary but in detail- confirming
other data in multiple lines of evidence. I have
no problem with them saying that in pre-dynastic
times there must have been some outside movement
into Egypt. Sure. After all in the pre-dynastic, before
the rise of the formal dynasties there was trade
and warfare in what is now Palestine, etc. And nomads
of various sorts could always have infiltrated.
Small scale movement of war captives, merchants or
nomads is always possible, but they would be minor
players in terms of the overall population.

THis article is important in that it also contradicts
those who try to use body mass as an end run marker of
some sort of huge Kakakzoid influx into the Nile Valley.
But as Stock et al indicate, changes in body mass
are also associated with the transition to agriculture-
which includes high production foraging and sedentism
based on that. The Nile Valley peoples did not need
NEar Eastern crops, animals or people to boost food output.
Such imports indeed helped but a productive food base was
already in place without relying on the "Middle East."
And, No "wandering Caucasoids" are needed
to give the natives variation in how they look.


Of interest is the role of diseases that cause reduction
in stature and body size, again associated with
transition to agriculture. Agriculture can be positive
and negative as far as health- and yield a fluctuating
pattern. Again, there is no fundamental need to look
to mass influxes from "the Middle East" to explain
fluctuations in body size.

"In this study, skeletal measures of body size were analysed to evaluate the long-term impact of
the transition to agriculture in the Nile Valley. It has previously been noted that the transition to
agriculture in the Nile, Valley is associated with a deterioration and subsequent improvement
in health, as reflected by a dramatic increase in the frequency of linear enamel hypoplasia
between the Jebel Sahaba and el-Badari samples, followed by a reduction in frequencies in
subsequent populations of the Nile, including the Kerma sample (Starling and Stock, 2007).
Here, we demonstrate that this transition is also associated with a modest reduction and
subsequent improvement in stature and body mass. This trend could be broadly interpreted in
the contextof models of a relationship between body size and nutrition. In this case, the greater
body size of early hunter-gatherers may reflect the benefit of broadly-based hunting and
gathering subsistence. With the onset of the Neolithic, the dietary diversity of hunter-gatherers
is replaced with dietary specialization on one or a few cereal crops and the products of domestic
animals. The potential nutritional implications of this are further compounded by the potential
transmission of zoonotic diseases associated with living in close proximity to domestic
animals, as well as related increases in population density and poor hygiene. Increasing
sedentism and population density are almost universally associated with increases in infectious
disease (Cohen, 1989; Steckel and Rose, 2002; Stuart-Macadam and Kent, 1992) and may
underpin the reduction in stature in the Predynastic Period."



tropical redact sez:
“The inclusion of both early and late samples from Nubia was a necessity of the current study, which may have some implications for interpretation. Most early work considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically-distinct populations; however, more recent analyses suggest that these populations are not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). A craniometric study found the Kerma population to be morphologically similar to a Lower Egyptian Predynastic population (Keita, 1990). Thus, while they may have existed on the margins of the growing Egyptian empire, their inclusion in comparisons of earlier Nubians and Nile Valley Predynastic samples appear warranted.” (p17)

^^Good point, glad you highlight it. Again, this contradicts
artificial attempts to split off "Nubia" separately
into some insinuated "race" format. The Nubians and
the Egyptians are the closest people in the Nile Valley.
It also defeats attempts to artificially split off
Upper Egypt as "different" from the rest of Egypt.
The authors point to craniometric data but limb
data also show that in that early era the proportions
of northerners group with African tropical types
rather than Europeans (Kemp 2005) and even Raxter/Ruff (2008)
who used mostly northern samples.



Good work Amun-Ra. Keep expanding the base- keep
accruing new data.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
People get mad when you point out that appearances
cross over ethnicities, they inisit it only looks
like an African

---

No. You saying that was connected to your whole
"AE were mixed" fairytale which you loved to
spout ad nauseam. What happened? Two analyses of
New Kingdom royal families happened, lol. I have
no problem with you calling the AE mixed. Not if
you apply that across and call Italians and Greeks
mixed in the same vain, which, of course, you
didn't. Not until we confronted you with this
inconsistency in your argument.

---

Ok the Italians, Greeks and Egyptians are all mixed peoples

^^^ there, it's fair now

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


Greece is a country located in Southern Europe, its mainland located at the southern end of the Balkan Peninsula.
Italy is also a peninsula. Dead end outcroppings

Egypt however is at the small land bridge hub between two continents, a small geograpic bottleneck

lioness prodcutions

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
People get mad when you point out that appearances
cross over ethnicities, they inisit it only looks
like an African

---

No. You saying that was connected to your whole
"AE were mixed" fairytale which you loved to
spout ad nauseam. What happened? Two analyses of
New Kingdom royal families happened, lol. I have
no problem with you calling the AE mixed. Not if
you apply that across and call Italians and Greeks
mixed in the same vain, which, of course, you
didn't. Not until we confronted you with this
inconsistency in your argument.

---

Ok the Italians, Greeks and Egyptians are all mixed peoples

^^^ there, it's fair now

---

So, they were all "mulattoes" in your view?

---

yeah*, so we agree now right?

It's your word. I haven't used that word in this thread.
Aren't you the guy who thinks the Iberomaurusians were Eurasian?

*
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/50e3d32b6bb3f75f4e000015-900-600/ap894035344672.jpg
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Wow Lioness. You've really cleaned your act up. You
even make use of footnotes. How sophisticated.

In your expert view, could one stretch it up a bit
and say that French, Spaniards, Caucasic people
(e.g. Georgians), Sardinians are Mulattoes, too?


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] Wow Lioness. You've really cleaned your act up. You
even make use of footnotes. How sophisticated.

In your expert view, could one stretch it up a bit
and say that French, Spaniards, Sardinians are
Mulattoes, too?

---

well if you instsit we'll throw them in


Swenet's Mulatto Cultures
Egyptians
Iberomaurusians
Greeks
French,
Spaniards
Sardinians

cosign, lioness
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
You're trolling again. I've never claimed such. The
sheer hypocrisy of your beliefs are coming out in
the naked and there is nothing you can do about it,
except crack a joke here and there. You try to
play "the game" along, but the truth is, you
don't consider any of these thoroughly admixed
European people mulattoes. Whenever indigenous
African people make something great and accept
immigrants on their own terms, however, they're
mulattoes. When genetic studies prove otherwise
you try marginalize their accomplishments as
unproductive outward displays of materialism.


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] You're trolling again. I've never claimed such. The
sheer hypocrisy of your beliefs are coming out in
the naked and there is nothing you can do about it,
except crack a joke here and there. You try to
play "the game" along, but the truth is, you
don't consider any of these thoroughly admixed
European people mulattoes. Whenever indigenous
African people make something great and accept
immigrants on their own terms, however, they're
mulattoes. When genetic studies prove otherwise
you try marginalize their accomplishments as
unproductive outward displays of materialism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
they were all "mulattoes"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The problem with the Egyptians is they wasted a lot of energy making useless mountains of stone and gigantic statues of kings.
They were great artists though

---

^^^^ admittedly overly negative.
They were also fantastic engineers, architects, written language innovators, argrcicultural and grain storage technologists, invented papyrus sheets,


However I feel people get so obssessed on Egypt because of it's links to Western culture, influence on the Greeks etc, possible influence on Abrahamic religion, monumental stone work.
It can get to the point of a continued disassociation, even embarassment about West Africa. I prefer to look at African culture on it's own terms not trying to justify it by the fact that other cultures outside of Africa were influenced by it
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
You're trolling again. I've never claimed such. The
sheer hypocrisy of your beliefs are coming out in
the naked and there is nothing you can do about it,
except crack a joke here and there. You try to
play "the game" along, but the truth is, you
don't consider any of these thoroughly admixed
European people mulattoes. Whenever indigenous
African people make something great and accept
immigrants on their own terms, however, they're
mulattoes. When genetic studies prove otherwise
you try marginalize their accomplishments as
unproductive outward displays of materialism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
As usual Swenet is more concerned in trying to link
Ancient Egyptians to the Middle East than to other
indigenous African people

---

quote:

---

To indict the lioness you need actual lioness quotes

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
As usual Swenet is more concerned in trying to link
Ancient Egyptians to the Middle East than to other
indigenous African people

---

You are crazy, son. That's why you were deleted from
the Facebook page. Take ya medicine and keep citing
"new" papers that are old news.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
What heat, dummy? Everyone knows you keep running
in debates with me. Who are you? I don't know you
from a hole in the wall. No one can vouch for you.
You popped up one day and started acting like you
knew a damn thing about this field and felt like
you could make your mark by disagreeing with what
people say. All the while you say the stupidest sh!t
I've ever heard, not realizing that every time you
say something stupid you insinuate that you know
next to nothing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
I always provide argumentation to demonstrate my
point of views so nobody needs blind faith to
follow my argumentation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
What, like claiming that DNA Tribes states that
the mummies have the closest relationships with
any region while they keep repeating that their
tests don't quantify admixture?

---

quote:

---

Or do you mean the instance where your dumbass
tried to insinuate that Hassan said that the Meroites
were predominantly A-M13, when he in fact said
that Yap predominated in the Meroitic sample?

---

quote:

---

It must be said that this also goes in line with the ancient DNA (aDNA) analysis of neolithic remains in Sudan which shows A-M13 being the main haplogroup among early settlers . A-M13 is prevalent in Sudan among modern day Dinka (62%), Shilluk (53%), Borgu (35%).

---

quote:

---

Accordingly, through limited on number of aDNA samples, there is enough data to
suggest and to tally with the historical evidence of the dominance by Nilotic
elements during the early state formation in the Nile Valley

---

quote:

---

What about the fact that your dumbass keeps posting
Rosa et al 2011's image of the distribution of
E-M2 in Africa when Ramses' e1b1a is not at all
the same thing as E-M2. You've been clued into
this fact but you just keep on perpetuating your
lying ass self-serving case.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
So Ramses III and modern West Africans share both the common E-V38 and E-M2 ancestor. So they, their ancestors, were once part of the same population in Eastern Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Full of crap as usual. Just a big heap of crap.

---

Well, thank you.

I love it when it ends with insults instead of argumentation contradicting me.
 

---

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
Not much on Genetics but I LOVE PICS.

Moving on.

What Swenet is probably trying to say(not speaking for him) is that any theory can be disproven with more testing.

What we know is that M2 is linked with E1b1a. That is all. West Africa may of had links with Egypt yet its not clear. Hopefully with time and other diverse avenues, this idea can be explored because euros won't explore it because some "claim" to be egyptians, or egyptians as "whites" so anything that links egypt to Africa is ignored or stated, but not investigated further. Diops and Obengas are needed who KNOW this field like Kieta, but not afraid to lose funding or Euro praise.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Full of crap as usual. Just a big heap of crap.

---

Well, thank you.

I love it when it ends with insults instead of argumentation contradicting me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
The most logical conclusion is
that Ramses III was E-M2,

---

quote:

---

but
your dumbass confuses this plausibility for your
politically motivated wet dream that Ramses III
was factually E-M2

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
I and others know what you've
written in the past. For instance, you once
listed Sweden as your place of origin, then you
said you were West African then you said you were
African American.

---

I't funny that Sweden rumor how many of you chumps bought it out of wishful thinking alone
All someone needs to say is "I once looked up her profile and it had Sweden listed" and people believe it.
And the ignorance to even point to it as it proves something. Let's pick out a place, the land of the tall blonds and make up a lie she lives there - as if there are no black people in Sweden.
It's meaningless. A European black person would never attempt to do that

I advocate black people who were born in America when asked say they "African".
They aren't required to spell it out "African American" .
Chinese American people will say they are Chinese probably more often than "Chinese American" .
But again it is another lie. Somebody says they remembered a time when I called myself simply "African".
I never even did that. Produce the evidence or get out of my office, you've got nothing on me kid
All somebody needs to do is say that and you sucka ass chumps believe it because you want to.
"I rememeber" = no post = LIE

Stop Trolling Amun Ra's thread
You kicked him off the facebook group, so why are you continuing to buzz like a mosquito ?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
You posted the trombetta 2011 paper yourself
recently, stupid. Where does it say that E-M2
equates E-V38, you big pseudo-scientific dummy?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
[QB] Ok, so you added something after I replied to you above. Maybe you don't realize it but you're contradicting yourself.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
The most logical conclusion is
that Ramses III was E-M2,

---

quote:

---

but
your dumbass confuses this plausibility for your
politically motivated wet dream that Ramses III
was factually E-M2

---

So which is it? The most logical conclusion or wet dream?

So do you want me to talk about the more logical conclusion or another conclusion out of your ass?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
You posted the trombetta 2011 paper yourself
yesterday, stupid. Where does it say that E-M2
equates E-V38, you big pseudo-scientific dummy?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Dumbass, where does it say that E-M2 is synonymous
with E-V38.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:


What Swenet is probably trying to say(not speaking for him) is that any theory can be disproven with more testing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
I don't think E-M2 and E-V38 are synonymous. It just that all E-M2 carriers are also carriers of E-V38. How many time do I need to repeat that before it gets into your thick head.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
There's not a lot of results about Ancient Egyptian mummies dna analysis, but Ramses III being E1b1a/M2 makes him related to the majority of African people, which are E1b1a/M2 carriers, so they share a common ancestor (after the main OOA migration).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Not much on Genetics but I LOVE PICS.

Moving on.

What Swenet is probably trying to say(not speaking for him) is that any theory can be disproven with more testing.

What we know is that M2 is linked with E1b1a. That is all. West Africa may of had links with Egypt yet its not clear. Hopefully with time and other diverse avenues, this idea can be explored because euros won't explore it because some "claim" to be egyptians, or egyptians as "whites" so anything that links egypt to Africa is ignored or stated, but not investigated further. Diops and Obengas are needed who KNOW this field like Kieta, but not afraid to lose funding or Euro praise.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Not much on Genetics but I LOVE PICS.

Moving on.

What Swenet is probably trying to say(not speaking for him) is that any theory can be disproven with more testing.

What we know is that M2 is linked with E1b1a. That is all. West Africa may of had links with Egypt yet its not clear. Hopefully with time and other diverse avenues, this idea can be explored because euros won't explore it because some "claim" to be egyptians, or egyptians as "whites" so anything that links egypt to Africa is ignored or stated, but not investigated further. Diops and Obengas are needed who KNOW this field like Kieta, but not afraid to lose funding or Euro praise.

---

Its certain that Ancient Egypt had links with West
Africa via L1b1a, L2a1a the Benin haplotype and a
West African branch of tuberculosis which was
found in some mummies. Much of Egypt's E-M2 and
R-V88 seems to have a West African provenance as
well. However, its plainly false to say that all
E-V38 is automatically E-M2. Its also plainly
false to say that all E-M2 is necessarily West
African.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
^^^
Ramses III + Unknown Man E = E1b1a (E-M2)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
[QB] Ok, so you added something after I replied to you above. Maybe you don't realize it but you're contradicting yourself.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
The most logical conclusion is
that Ramses III was E-M2,

---

quote:

---

but
your dumbass confuses this plausibility for your
politically motivated wet dream that Ramses III
was factually E-M2

---

So which is it? The most logical conclusion or wet dream?

So do you want me to talk about the more logical conclusion or another conclusion out of your ass?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Amun Ra, he's got you a little bit

---

In what way?
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Lying dumbass. That's not what you initially said.
Your whole fabricated case was that Ramses III was
necessarily E-M2 because he was predicted E-V38:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
MAN

Bin out of the loop for too long.

Yeah Swenet I forgot about sickelcell traits from west Africa. I also remember Diops language link with Wolof and Egyptian

I also seemed to remember that Egyptians Claimed that they originated from the mountain of the moon where Hapi dwells. Uganda and South Sudan, Rwanda, Burundi and etc.

If it is the words in there book of the dead then why all the fuss about west this and east that? African Links are evident.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The problem with the Egyptians is they wasted a lot of energy making useless mountains of stone and gigantic statues of kings.
They were great artists though

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
I and others know what you've
written in the past. For instance, you once
listed Sweden as your place of origin, then you
said you were West African then you said you were
African American.

---

I't funny that Sweden rumor how many of you chumps bought it out of wishful thinking alone
All someone needs to say is "I once looked up her profile and it had Sweden listed" and people believe it.
And the ignorance to even point to it as it proves something. Let's pick out a place, the land of the tall blonds and make up a lie she lives there - as if there are no black people in Sweden.
It's meaningless. A European black person would never attempt to do that

I advocate black people who were born in America when asked say they "African".
They aren't required to spell it out "African American" .
Chinese American people will say they are Chinese probably more often than "Chinese American" .
But again it is another lie. Somebody says they remembered a time when I called myself simply "African".
I never even did that. Produce the evidence or get out of my office, you've got nothing on me kid
All somebody needs to do is say that and you sucka ass chumps believe it because you want to.
"I rememeber" = no post = LIE

Stop Trolling Amun Ra's thread
You kicked him off the facebook group, so why are you continuing to buzz like a mosquito ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
It irritates me when I see other Africans Americans pretend that they are Egyptians to the extent of forgeting their direct ancestry in Africa. It's because many of us are still ashamed because of white supremacy so we attach to an example of an African country that they are impressed by and because modern Western cities are more similar to it.
I see black folk in love with anceint Egypt yet they put down immigrants from Senegal and Ghana, that is what I see, It's a problem you may not know about.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
It irritates me when I see other Africans Americans pretend that they are Egyptians to the extent of forgeting their direct ancestry in Africa. It's because many of us are still ashamed because of white supremacy so we attach to an example of an African country that they are impressed by and because modern Western cities are more similar to it.
I see black folk in love with anceint Egypt yet they put down immigrants from Senegal and Ghana, that is what I see, It's a problem you may not know about.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
As usual Swenet is more concerned in trying to link
Ancient Egyptians to the Middle East than to other
indigenous African people

---

You are crazy, son. That's why you were deleted from
the Facebook page. Take ya medicine and keep citing
"new" papers that are old news.

---

Don't be an idiot, you have proven my point again in this thread.

As for you kicking me out of your facebook group. It just shows you can't take the heat. You're acting like a cry baby. Now get back to your facebook group and don't bother us again with your stupidity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
Did I mention the great work Brada, Z-man is
doing over at ESR. Objectivity and no buddy buddy
shyte.

---

Well, wait until he comes on ESR and starts telling
you how to posts information, ignoring house rules
and talk sh!t about you on ES when you're not
looking. Goodluck.
 

---

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
the lioness,

Theres an R&B singer that is accepted by Black Americans Lioness. Name Akon.

The thing is though is that Not an expert on others too much but Egypt is definetly overplayed. Want to branch out to other parts of Africa like Niger, Senegal etc.

What I know about those countries is that Senegal largest Ethnicities are the Wolof who speak an language that is akin to Egyptian.

If you really LISTEN to Africans speak you may find commonality(probably wrong) with language. Don't let the accents throw you off. AA are the Prime leaders of the Black community. The thing though is that they have become stagnant in inovating that is needed to Not only Grow African Americans, but other Ethncities also. Maybe its paranoia that they will lose credit for inventions that They have made. All I know is that without inovaters we will be stuck. Look around you Lioness, The world ALWAYS gives you keys to unlocking ablities and inventions. Everything Grows, Breathes and dies. What we have to understand is that patience and respect unlocks inventions.

We still don't know how the egyptians created the pyramids because we don't think. We claim slavery, trees being chopped down and rolled etc. Maybe as we as an human community relys on eachother(groupthink) then we can stop the stupid foolishness of race and slavery nonsense and realize that the Egyptians, Iraqis, Zimbabweans were FREETHINKERS and did not believe that there potential could be stopped by what we believe are limitations. Credit Must first be shown back to the African American community before we can move forward. Reparations(or something like that) would be an start.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
FREETHINKERS and did not believe that there potential could be stopped by what we believe are limitations. Credit Must first be shown back to the African American community before we can move forward. Reparations (or something like that) would be an start.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
FREETHINKERS and did not believe that there potential could be stopped by what we believe are limitations. Credit Must first be shown back to the African American community before we can move forward. Reparations (or something like that) would be an start.

---

I was feeling some of what you were saying and thank you
but seem to be saying we can't think freely until we are given reparations.

Maybe we should be given reparations but almost nobody is talking about it these days. I think because of the recession there would be a big backlash in talking about it.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about if it's justice.
But I don't think reparations or being given credit should be linked to free thinking. Free thinking is separate. That's why it's free. It's not held back by due credit.

The world doesn't pay you for what your ancestors did. What I think is needed is a more level playing field

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Speaking about reparation, how many of us are for it? I am on the fence. I will like to see some other form of repayment. Not necessarily financial.

And what is the "we" shyte Lioness. Give it up . Everyone knows you not of West African descent. I still think you are Turk or Hindu.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Yeah Swenet I forgot about sickelcell traits from west Africa. I also remember Diops language link with Wolof and Egyptian

I also seemed to remember that Egyptians Claimed that they originated from the mountain of the moon where Hapi dwells. Uganda and South Sudan, Rwanda, Burundi and etc.

If it is the words in there book of the dead then why all the fuss about west this and east that? African Links are evident.

---

I want to say something more about this.

It's really important to understand that Ancient Egyptians are Africans not only geographically, but biologically, genetically, historically and culturally. Africans like Wolof, Somali, Yoruba, Bantu, Dinka, Nubian, Afar, Kongo etc.

There's some people who seek to divide African between each other. I don't know why. But in reality there's a strong historical and cultural affiliation between various African populations all across Africa, including Ancient Egyptians. There's both differences and similarities. Like European, East Asian, Native Americans populations, African populations like Wolof, Somali, Yoruba, Bantu, Dinka, Nubian, Afar, Kongo etc are genetically close to each other.

You can see it for example here:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8691/5gmh.jpg
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/08/abofig331b.png
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0888754310001552-gr3.jpg
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y421/amunratheultimate2/Misc/EucledianDistanceTreeofGeneticWorldRegions_zpsf7ba6d1d.jpg


From here: http://www.dnatribes.com/sample-results/dnatribes-global-survey-regional-affinities.pdf
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf (for the AE mummy results)

So as you can see on the genetic distance tree between populations above. African people, as well European, East Asian, Native peoples, etc, are genetically close to each other. They form a genetic family called "Sub-Saharan African" by DNA Tribes. So when DNA Tribes says Ancient Egyptian mummies matched African people, they meant the Sub-Saharan African category above. The Great Lakes, Southern, West and Sahelian African genetic families.

A bit as a joke, but with some seriousness too. I posted an altered image of the graph above placing the Ancient Egyptian population where I think they would be in the graph.



Of course other people may place the Ancient Egyptians population to some other location on the Euclidean distance tree. But considering the DNA Tribes results on the Ancient Egyptian mummies, they should place it awfully close to the so-called Sub-Saharan African genetic families thus the Great Lakes, Southern, Sahelian and Tropical West African African genetic grouping. Let's recall from this thread than Ancient Egyptians are indigenous Africans. Not people from Europe or the Middle East.

So Ancient Egyptians are Africans not only geographically, but biologically, genetically, historically, culturally, etc.

On the genetic angle, African populations (including Ancient Egyptians) are genetically close to each other as Europeans, East Asians, Native Americans, etc to each other.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

There's some people who seek to divide African between each other. I don't know why.
They form a genetic family called "Sub-Saharan African" by DNA Tribes. So when DNA Tribes says Ancient Egyptian mummies matched African people, they meant the Sub-Saharan African category above. The Great Lakes, Southern, West and Sahelian African genetic families.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Speaking about reparation, how many of us are for it? I am on the fence. I will like to see some other form of repayment. Not necessarily financial.

And what is the "we" shyte Lioness. Give it up . Everyone knows you not of West African descent. I still think you are Turk or Hindu.

---

Aren't you half white. didn't you once say your father was Polish?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
.Charlie Bass.

Even if its mocking, Its good to see you.

Welcome back Charlie.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
Very valuable. His picture thread on AE. Pictures many of us have never seen. I know Ultimate is now getting his feet wet in genetics.

He also did good work on Helocene period in the Sahara.

---

By that standard the lioness is a more valuable
poster than you, cause she's been posting more
papers on ES than both of you put together. But
hey, don't mind me. Wouldn't want to wake you
from your wild imagination. As you say: very
valuable and capable of original and fresh
analysis.
 

---

Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
 
The standards here are lower and lower, stop fighting amongst yourselves, back in the days here 10 years ago ago, we debated not this sort of nonsense I see here today, its beyond retarded.
 

---

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
not trying to control what people say or do freedom of expression is Great and I support that.

What I don't support is the cheap jabs and following posters from thread to thread hating on them. If you and another poster, get into an posting fight, then after that thread dies move on. UFC and Boxers FIGHT, yet at the end they hug, shake hands and move on. On the streets, real men fight with fists, after that they either shake hands after or just walk away. I know people are in the safety of there Home, Job or school but think how would you react if you were face to face? Debates don't mean hate but understanding. No hippy but understand its roots.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Hermes?
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
How many years can you do the same topics over and over?
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
How many years can you do the same topics over and over?

---

It's like asking: how many years can you be interested in football?

I like reading and learning more about African history. It's a bit like reading novels but instead the stories are real. Reading fictive novels is fun too, of course.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
the question is where is Charlie Bass posting lately?


Amun Ra what is your review of Swenet's facebook page?
and compare to Reloaded.
Reloaded seems to have become an xyyman stomping ground.He roams free there
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
the question is where is Charlie Bass posting lately?


Amun Ra what is your review of Swenet's facebook page?
and compare to Reloaded.
Reloaded seems to have become an xyyman stomping ground.He roams free there

---

If anything it's your posts and questions which are red-herrings.

Maybe you can ask those questions on your own Identity of "Eastern Ethiopians" according to Herodotus thread.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
If anything it's your posts and questions which are red-herrings.

Maybe you can ask those questions on your own Identity of "Eastern Ethiopians" according to Herodotus thread.

---

will you answer them If I post them there?

they left you out here
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
If anything it's your posts and questions which are red-herrings.

Maybe you can ask those questions on your own Identity of "Eastern Ethiopians" according to Herodotus thread.

---

will you answer them If I post them there?

---

Of course not, but I would not answer them in another thread at least...


Let's keep the red-herrings topics to some other thread.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Ok, no more off topic
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
There's some people who seek to divide African between each other. I don't know why.

^^Oh we all pretty much know why- so they can spin
the bogus, and hypocritical narratives about Africa and Africans.

As my old Geocities pages still says:

--------------------------------------------------------

"As noted in one detailed 1967 study by archaeologists Berry and Ucko (Genetical Change in Ancient Egypt):

"This is attested by the tendency in the past (summarised by Chantre 1904) to postulate all sorts of improbable racial amalgams in Egypt: mixtures of peoples representing a singular variety of groups (viz. Libyan, Caucasian, Arab, Pelasgian, Negro, Bushman, Mongol, Hamitic, Hamito-Semitic- even Red Indian and Australian aboriginal) were alleged to have migrated into the Nile Valley." . Indeed Keith (1905:92) complained that the literature at that time included hopeless contradictions of three, six, one and two races."[5]

Later work was sometimes marked by the same pattern with even Cro-Magnons being thrown into the mix.[6] Berry and Ucko also note most Egyptologists in earlier years "are at pains to disclaim any Negro element in the Egyptian populations after the predynastic period except for the population of Sudanese Kerma.." while producing shifting definitions of exactly what 'negroid' was. Quote:

".. the basic weakness of all claims to distinguish or decry Negro elements on the basis of metrical analyses is the absence of any rigorous population comparisons to isolate particular features which can be described as negroid. It is typical of this unsatisfactory situation that F.P [Petrie] 1928:68) although basing himself entirely on the original Stoessiger report, could sumarise the Badarian skull material in terms which denied any serious Negro element."[7]

Disclaiming any hint of negroid presence, Petrie held that the ancient Egyptian skulls in question were of Indian origin, some thousands of miles distant, versus the surrounding area, or those further south, which were within a few hundred.[8]
http://www.geocities.ws/nilevalleypeoples/index.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------





"But they know very well what a white man is.. every time these
relationships are not favorable to the Western cultures, an effort is
made to undermine.. telling them [Africans] 'we don't know what a race
is' (Finch interview 1989:366-7; see also Diop 1991: 16-17)
-C.A. DIop


"But it is only the most gratuitous theory that considers the Dinka,
the Nouer and the Masai, among others, to be Caucasoids. What if an African
ethnologist were to persist in recognizing as white-only the blond, blue-eyed
Scandinavians, and systematically refused membership to the remaining Europeans,
and Mediterraneans in particular—the French, Italians, Greek, Spanish, and
Portuguese? Just as the inhabitants of Scandinavia and the Mediterranean countries
must be considered as two extreme poles of the same anthropological reality, so
should the Negroes of East and West Africa be considered as the two extremes in
the reality of the Negro world. To say that a Shillouk, a Dinka, or a Nouer is a
Caucasoid is for an African as devoid of sense and scientific interest as would be,
to a European, an attitude that maintained that a Greek or a Latin were not of the
same race."
-- Cheikh Anta Diop, 'Evolution of the Negro world', Presence Africaine (Vol. 23, no. 51, 1964), pp. 5-15.

http://www.geocities.ws/nilevalleypeoples/index.htm
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] There's some people who seek to divide African between each other. I don't know why.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun Ra

They form a genetic family called "Sub-Saharan African" by DNA Tribes. So when DNA Tribes says Ancient Egyptian mummies matched African people, they meant the Sub-Saharan African category above. The Great Lakes, Southern, West and Sahelian African genetic families.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
There's some people who seek to divide African between each other. I don't know why.

^^Oh we all pretty much know why- so they can spin
the bogus, and hypocritical narratives about Africa and Africans.

As my old Geocities pages still says:

--------------------------------------------------------

"As noted in one detailed 1967 study by archaeologists Berry and Ucko (Genetical Change in Ancient Egypt):

"This is attested by the tendency in the past (summarised by Chantre 1904) to postulate all sorts of improbable racial amalgams in Egypt: mixtures of peoples representing a singular variety of groups (viz. Libyan, Caucasian, Arab, Pelasgian, Negro, Bushman, Mongol, Hamitic, Hamito-Semitic- even Red Indian and Australian aboriginal) were alleged to have migrated into the Nile Valley." . Indeed Keith (1905:92) complained that the literature at that time included hopeless contradictions of three, six, one and two races."[5]

Later work was sometimes marked by the same pattern with even Cro-Magnons being thrown into the mix.[6] Berry and Ucko also note most Egyptologists in earlier years "are at pains to disclaim any Negro element in the Egyptian populations after the predynastic period except for the population of Sudanese Kerma.." while producing shifting definitions of exactly what 'negroid' was. Quote:

".. the basic weakness of all claims to distinguish or decry Negro elements on the basis of metrical analyses is the absence of any rigorous population comparisons to isolate particular features which can be described as negroid. It is typical of this unsatisfactory situation that F.P [Petrie] 1928:68) although basing himself entirely on the original Stoessiger report, could sumarise the Badarian skull material in terms which denied any serious Negro element."[7]

Disclaiming any hint of negroid presence, Petrie held that the ancient Egyptian skulls in question were of Indian origin, some thousands of miles distant, versus the surrounding area, or those further south, which were within a few hundred.[8]
http://www.geocities.ws/nilevalleypeoples/index.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------





"But they know very well what a white man is.. every time these
relationships are not favorable to the Western cultures, an effort is
made to undermine.. telling them [Africans] 'we don't know what a race
is' (Finch interview 1989:366-7; see also Diop 1991: 16-17)
-C.A. DIop


"But it is only the most gratuitous theory that considers the Dinka,
the Nouer and the Masai, among others, to be Caucasoids. What if an African
ethnologist were to persist in recognizing as white-only the blond, blue-eyed
Scandinavians, and systematically refused membership to the remaining Europeans,
and Mediterraneans in particular—the French, Italians, Greek, Spanish, and
Portuguese? Just as the inhabitants of Scandinavia and the Mediterranean countries
must be considered as two extreme poles of the same anthropological reality, so
should the Negroes of East and West Africa be considered as the two extremes in
the reality of the Negro world. To say that a Shillouk, a Dinka, or a Nouer is a
Caucasoid is for an African as devoid of sense and scientific interest as would be,
to a European, an attitude that maintained that a Greek or a Latin were not of the
same race."
-- Cheikh Anta Diop, 'Evolution of the Negro world', Presence Africaine (Vol. 23, no. 51, 1964), pp. 5-15.

http://www.geocities.ws/nilevalleypeoples/index.htm

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mena7:
I think Ancient Egypt was composed of 42 African tribes call nomes. Those black African tribes have different skin tones and hair textures. some members of those African tribes left Egypt during the Stellar, Lunar and Solar cults to create civilizations in the six continents.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
the question is where is Charlie Bass posting lately?


Amun Ra what is your review of Swenet's facebook page?
and compare to Reloaded.
Reloaded seems to have become an xyyman stomping ground.He roams free there

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
I'm not posting any where, I'm far too busy raising my babies and looking after my wife.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Amun-Ra The Ultimate


Amun do you recommend any books? or places where People tell there own history?

---

Well, it's very vast and each people have their own interests. From Ancient Egyptians to the Wodaabe passing by the Zulu, Kongo and the Fang.

I never ordered from them, but that site:
http://www.africanbookscollective.com/ often have books that I'm interested about (I often stumble on that site when doing google search).

People can also cross check publishers (if you find an interesting book, check other books published by the same publisher). For example, check all the history books published by the University Press, Nigeria, if that region's history interest you. Same thing for other regions or other interests.

I also suggest visiting local libraries.
 

---

Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Old fashioned?. "Looking after my wife". I will get a spoon thrown at me if words like that comes out my mouth. . Just saying...
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Breakdown of ES activities:

60% small talk
35% fudging with scientific reports
5% actual science and worthwhile analysis
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
the bottom line is ther have to be people to make new posts.
Son of Ra was doing it for a while but then Swenet stole him for his facebook group.

Also as I said there are some limits, people tire of the same subject over and over and new discoveries are not every day and don't always have that much discussion potential
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
I'm tired of this back-inda-dayz ****.
Those people are just about all gone.
Either
1 - they could not adapt so they "died"
2 - they have no idea of STRUGGLE

I was looking at Rufus Perry (1880's)
and James Parker (19teens) among other
works I used to vend circa 1979-1982
and luckily still own that were re-issued
by GK Osei and the then fledling Black
Classics Press in "homemade" pamphlet
format.

You will find damn near exactly the
same arguments presented then (hell
even back to expurgated Volney from
the slavery era) as found on ES from
2004 to tomorrow.

Why? Because the struggle is continuous
(aluta continua). The very same stupidities
countered over 100 years ago are alive and
kicking today and some of it is not even
altered while some of it is slicked up
and comes out the mouths of current
population geneticists.

Those who shield themselves in private ivory
towers or retreat from public fields of battle
over Africa and all things African or think
ES is just spinning its wheels getting nowhere
do not understand the meaning of our struggle
nor the value it presents to those who really
know nothing but want to learn what they will
never ever get taught in school.

This is why some of us persevere and struggle.
Yearn and learn, each one teach one, is what
we do.

Here's to all who continue our struggle
no matter tedious or repetitive it seems
because we never know who we will reach
and what they will produce in the offline
real world.

It's not our job to finish the work
yet we cannot stand aside and look.

From time to time I broach a thread
and no will contribute while bullshit
threads go on with page after page of
shitshat and trivialities. So what?

No, ES will never be what it once was.
But who is in the ongoing struggle to
make ES as worthwhile as possible under
conditions that do try even the best of
us?

Those who won'tt continue the struggle
shut up and disappear back to whereever.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

The very same stupidities
countered over 100 years ago are alive and
kicking today and some of it is not even
altered while some of it is slicked up
and comes out the mouths of current
population geneticists.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
It's not our job to finish the work

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
"Any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depends on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as "blacks", while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." - The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
"Any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depends on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as "blacks", while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." - The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:


Smith's statement is only a pyrrhic victory
when one realizes precisely what his words
mean depending on who's reading it. Eg.,
"black" but not negro as in all Africans
are not black meaning nearly all the
Afro-Asian speakrs of the north
countries and even black skinned
Ethiopians etc..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
"Any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depends on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as "blacks", while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." - The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001)

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
so the struggle is already near won, now what ?

Look at the modern Greeks, knowing that their ancestors were ancient Greeks has not enabled them to sustain a cutting edge for quite a while, many hundreds of years

If you want to activate the lineage you have to take it and update it,
If not let it rest and start something new

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
so the struggle is already near won, now what ?

Look at the modern Greeks, knowing that their ancestors were ancient Greeks has not enabled them to sustain a cutting edge for quite a while, many hundreds of years

If you want to activate the lineage you have to take it and update it,
If not let it rest and start something new

---

I didn't use the word struggle anywhere, you're mistaking me for somebody else.

For me, it's really about deciphering and learning more about the history of African people (including Ancient Egyptian). Also from time to time other people's history. I also like Roman/Viking/Ancient Greece movies. It's really about learning more.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
so the struggle is already near won, now what ?

Look at the modern Greeks, knowing that their ancestors were ancient Greeks has not enabled them to sustain a cutting edge for quite a while, many hundreds of years

If you want to activate the lineage you have to take it and update it,
If not let it rest and start something new

---

I didn't use the word struggle anywhere, you're mistaking me for somebody else.

For me, it's really about deciphering and learning more about the history of African people (including Ancient Egyptian). Also from time to time other people's history. I also like Roman/Viking/Ancient Greece movies. It's really about learning more.

---

that was a word struggle was from Tukuler's post

you thought there was a need to make a thread that asserted the Egyptians were indigenous Africans. The fact that you felt need to state that, make a thread with that title, could be the struggle

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
On this one the lioness is right and Tukuler is wrong.

The Oxford Encylopedia of Ancient Egypt goes further than just stipulating that Ancient Egyptians were "blacks" by American standard. Which is already the strongest statement to say Ancient Egyptians were black Africans like "sub-Saharan" Africans. Negroes to use a slightly more archaic American racial term. They also state some archeological facts demonstrating the linkage between Ancient Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africans.

"Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons. The presence of formative pharaonic symbolism in the Lower Nubian A-Group royal burials at Qustul has led Bruce Williams to posit a common Egyptian-Nubian pharaonic heritage, although this notion has been much disputed. Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures, including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization." - The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001)

This in fact pretty much goes in line with the article from this thread which talks about an indigenous African origin for the Ancient Egyptian state. Same thing could be said about current aDNA data.

---

 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
The struggle is continuous
The struggle is ongoing
The struggle continues
A luta continua

You, being a non-black / non-African show you
have absolutely no idea of struggle or what
the struggle is about, or what is being
struggled for and are unaware of the
phrase ALUTA CONTINUA its origins
and its history of use on both
sides of the Atlantic.




Aluta continua

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
so the struggle is already near won, now what ?

Look at the modern Greeks, knowing that their ancestors were ancient Greeks has not enabled them to sustain a cutting edge for quite a while, many hundreds of years

If you want to activate the lineage you have to take it and update it,
If not let it rest and start something new

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] Only for those who are naïve to two facts

1 - current American standards are not world standards throughout all time

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

2 - the majority of academicians define N and NE Africans as non-black

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] Is this equally true and applicable
to when north and east Africans
are defined as white/Caucasoid?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
the American definition of Black is a dark skin person with an afro, period.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
.


Not Black

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Waffle waffle waffle here
"See this guy he's not black"
or
"He's Black (sic) according to American definition"
Waffle waffle waffle there

You'll say anything so long as it suits your snaky purposes.

Meanwhile define white

we are waiting ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
We know why
you refuse
to do it but
quit the ****
define white

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
So. I hope ultimate get my point. Most North Africans has ownership of the continent.....irregardless of what is going through their tiny Moslem heads. They have been sharing the continent with there brothers further south since the beginning of AMH. They are Africans through and through. No admixture needed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] New paper came out. African SLC24A5 has the same
single origin as non-African SLC24A5, as I've
stated all along. Some things can be ruled out
with simple thinking and abiding by scientific
principles. This thread is a an instructive
display of how far some ES members are prepared
to go to preserve their childish nonsense
fairy tales of African purity. Of only a few ES
members can it be said that they're honest and
critical. When people start to knowingly deny
well documented events, like the entry of Ethio-
Semitic languages and genes into East Africa 3kya,
you know that they have zero integrity and
operate in their own little fantasy world and
cannot be trusted when it comes reporting on
African population genetics and African history
in general.
[QUOTE]To gain insight into when and where this mutation
arose, we defined common haplotypes in the
genomic region around SLC24A5 across diverse human
populations and deduced phylogenetic relationships
between them. Virtually all chromosomes carrying the
A111T allele share a single 78-kb haplotype that we
call C11, indicating that all instances of this
mutation in human populations share a common origin

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
We know why
you refuse
to do it but
quit the ****
define white

---

"white" by American definition is a person of European descent only with no Epicanthic fold
It's srtictly geographic and eye shape restricted

"black" is not geographic restricted, it's hair restricted according to American definition

It's not my fault Americans are idiots

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Nonsense

(white)
USA definition already given;
"original peoples of Europe, Mid-East, and N Africa."

---

you made that up and then put it in quotes

stop playing games
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

A North African Soccer team, Atlas Lions, Morocco

Americans don't call these people "white". They call them "Arabs"

fo example Doxies in AE calls light skinned Euroepan Jews not white
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Stop being a breying ass
You know full well where
that's from and before
you act like you don't
just GOOGLE it or use
your preferred source
WIKI to find out.

Before inserting my quote in GOOGLE
fill out Mid-East to Middle East
and fill out N Africa to North Africa

This is very old news
and was brought up on
ES some time ago.

I mean damn you'll
use any excuse to
make a post as if
you're paid for
each stupid post
you make.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Nonsense

(white)
USA definition already given;
"original peoples of Europe, Mid-East, and N Africa."

---

you made that up and then put it in quotes

stop playing games

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:


USA definition already given;
"original peoples of Europe, Mid-East, and N Africa."
2/3rds textbook whites since in real life Arabs, "Arabs,"
Berbers, Upper Egyptians, Sudanese, Ethiopians, Somalis, etc
are nowhere in USA Europe Australia SouthAfrica considered white

---

Such a 1st willful distorting lying ass u r
acting like you can't read and understand my non-complex direct statement
only you can pretend to be so obtuse nobody else questioned or failed to get it

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

A North African Soccer team, Atlas Lions, Morocco

Americans don't call these people "white". They call them "Arabs"

fo example Doxies in AE calls light skinned Euroepan Jews not white

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

A North African Soccer team, Atlas Lions, Morocco

Americans don't call these people "white". They call them "Arabs"

fo example Doxies in AE calls light skinned Euroepan Jews not white

---