quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
It appears that Ethiopian is used both as the name of "nation states" and the racial identication of the Indians as "blacks".

.

---

If Ethiopians (Aethiopians) when applied to people means black and not specfically people from south of Egypt then there should be some other mention in the whole of Herodotus' writings apart from this one possible instance, there should be another instance where Herodotus calls Indians Ethiopian again or any dark people not from south of Egypt Ethiopian.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QB] http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.7.vii.html

Herodotus, The Persian Wars

Translated by George Rawlinson (1858–60)

Book VII

[7.70] The eastern Ethiopians -
for two nations of this name served in the army - were marshalled with the Indians.
They differed in nothing
from the other Ethiopians,
save in their language, and the character of their hair.
For the eastern Ethiopians have straight hair,
while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world.

___________________________________________________

Here is a different translation:


The History of Herodotus, parallel English/Greek, tr. G. C. Macaulay, [1890], at sacred-texts.com

70. Of the Ethiopians above Egypt and of the Arabians the commander, I say, was Arsames; but the Ethiopians from the direction of the sunrising (for the Ethiopians were in two bodies) had been appointed to serve with the Indians, being in no way different from the other Ethiopians, but in their language and in the nature of their hair only; for the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired, but those of Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men. These Ethiopians from Asia were armed for the most part like the Indians, but they had upon their heads the skin of a horse's forehead flayed off with the ears and the mane, and the mane served instead of a crest, while they had the ears of the horse set up straight and stiff: and instead of shields they used to make defences to hold before themselves of the skins of cranes


http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh7070.htm

_________________________________________

^^^^ also confusing and ambiguous

some reconstructions of Herodotus' world map but the problem is they are specualtion and vary







_______________________________________

the Greek


70. τῶν μὲν δὴ ὑπὲρ Αἰγύπτου Αἰθιόπων καὶ Ἀραβίων ἦρχε Ἀρσάμης, οἱ δὲ ἀπὸ ἡλίου ἀνατολέων Αἰθίοπες (διξοὶ γὰρ δὴ ἐστρατεύοντο) προσετετάχατο τοῖσι Ἰνδοῖσι, διαλλάσσοντες εἶδος μὲν οὐδὲν τοῖσι ἑτέροισι, φωνὴν δὲ καὶ τρίχωμα μοῦνον· οἱ μὲν γὰρ ἀπὸ ἡλίου Αἰθίοπες ἰθύτριχες εἰσί, οἱ δ’ ἐκ τῆς Λιβύης οὐλότατον τρίχωμα ἔχουσι πάντων ἀνθρώπων. 7.70.2 οὗτοι δὲ οἱ ἐκ τῆς Ἀσίης Αἰθίοπες τὰ μὲν πλέω κατά περ Ἰνδοὶ ἐσεσάχατο, προμετωπίδια δὲ ἵππων εἶχον ἐπὶ τῇσι κεφαλῇσι σύν τε τοῖσι ὠσὶ ἐκδεδαρμένα καὶ τῇ λοφιῇ· καὶ ἀντὶ μὲν λόφου ἡ λοφιὴ κατέχρα, τὰ δὲ ὦτα τῶν ἵππων ὀρθὰ πεπηγότα εἶχον· προβλήματα δὲ ἀντ’ ἀσπίδων ἐποιεῦντο γεράνων δοράς.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
It appears that Ethiopian is used both as the name of "nation states" and the racial identication of the Indians as "blacks".

.

---

If Ethiopians (Aethiopians) when applied to people means black and not specfically people from south of Egypt then there should be some other mention in the whole of Herodotus' writings apart from this one possible instance, there should be another instance where Herodotus calls Indians Ethiopian again or any dark people not from south of Egypt Ethiopian.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

I know this to be true because my knowledge of french gained in High School and Arabic learned from Moorish scientists back in the day helped me in my studies of African History back during my university and early afrocentric research days.
.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Amun-Ra you seem to be unaware of Nobel Drew Ali's Moorish Science Temple (keyword: "science" after word Moor)

here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America

---

I was unaware of it but it doesn't change my position.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


Yet another map theorizing how Herodotus saw the world.
This one has "Eastern Ethiopians" marked in the India position.
This map however doesn't mark Libya, Europe or Asia
Interetsingly none of Arabia is called Ethiopian although he says according to Macaulay:

"Of the Ethiopians above Egypt and of the Arabians the commander, I say, was Arsames; but the Ethiopians from the direction of the sunrising (for the Ethiopians were in two bodies) had been appointed to serve with the Indians"

However Arsames was Persian

I think the proper interpretation may be that he's saying that Indians are Indians but some who live in India are straight haired Ethiopians. The Libyans are similar to them but have kinky hair
That seems to fit
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

quote:

---

They differed in nothing
from the other Ethiopians,
save in their language, and the character of their hair.

---

East Ethiopians:


Afar Boys


Afar Warrior Dancing
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
He seems not to have meant Ethiopians of East Ethiopia like the Afar. He would call them Libyan which at that time meant all the Northern half Africa (and they may not have had knowledge of the southern half of the continent.
By the Eastern Ethiopians he meant some of the people living in India (if my theory is right)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

So basically, East Ethiopians are similar to other Ethiopians but have a different hair style?

---

No they have a different hair type, naturally straight, not styled straight according to the intent of the quote.
In Herodotus' mind they seemed related to African Ethiopians
(although genetically distinct) and culturally distinct (which he did mention)




^^^^ He may have been calling Indian people like this "Eastern Ethiopian" but other Indians, "Indians"


^^ Interestingly he didn't call some of the darker skinned Arabs Ethiopian however but I will have to re-check that
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

_______________^^^^ It's hard to know for sure
but this kid might have some Indian or Arabian ancestry,
hence the different hair, it's not afro hair or straight, it's curly hair
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

No they have a different hair type, naturally straight, not styled straight according to the intent of the quote.

---

There's no intent of the quote. Herodotus just mention people which are physically similar beside their hair. Seeing how difficult it is even for you to differentiate natural straight hair to different hair styles, I don't think Herodotus had any more capacity in that venture than us.

For you is that natural straight hair or a straightened (relaxed) hair style?

Afar Warrior Dancing
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
Here's father and daugther:


Karrayyu ethnic group
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
[QB]

quote:

---

No they have a different hair type, naturally straight, not styled straight according to the intent of the quote.

---

There's no intent of the quote. Herodotus just mention people which are physically similar beside their hair. Seeing how difficult it is even for you to differentiate natural straight hair to different hair styles, I don't think Herodotus had any more capacity in that venture than us.

---

I'm not having any difficulty in this situation. I told you these woman have naturally straight hair, not relaxed.
Herodotus was talking about people like this.


70. .... the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired, but those of Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men. These Ethiopians from Asia were armed for the most part like the Indians,


By "Libya" he means the old Greek definition he means all of Africa (to the limited extent they knew about it)
We are not talking about modern definitions of Eastern Ethiopians in Ethiopia.
He is calling a segment of people living in India "Eastern Ethiopins" and all Ethiopians in Ethiopia both in the East and West of Ethiopia Libyan Ethiopians

Libya, ancient Greek definition = the whole of Africa

Please stick to the topic, what Herodotus meant. The Macaulay translation is more detailed
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

I know this to be true because my knowledge of french gained in High School and Arabic learned from Moorish scientists back in the day helped me in my studies of African History back during my university and early afrocentric research days.
.

---

No wonder why you try to claim European haplogroups and admixture then to be African. Genetically (and culturally for that matter) Berbers are already European/African admixtures with some middle eastern introgression. They were conquered. They are often arabized and islamized.
How can you be taught afrocentrism from people who have such cultural affiliation to Europe and the Middle East?

---

I have always acknowledged that the Berbers are of Vandal origin.

LOL. You are very ignorant of Afrocentrism. Cultural affiliation has not influenced my research interest or the research interest of other Afrocentric researchers.


Diop was a Muslim and spoke French, but this did not influence his view on African origin of Egypt.


Afrocentrism was founded by Afro-Americans. I knew Arabic and French because i was exposed to it before I attended Univ. IL-Urbana. Since I left University i have studied Swahili, Tamil, Malinke-Bambara, Mayan, Chinese and etc.

LOL.My minor for BA degree was West African history. Since at that time the major emphasis was on the West African kingdoms, my ability to read French and Arabic proved to be useful since much of the primary material was in Arabic and French.

My Master's thesis was on Blacks in the Indian Ocean region, so I learned Swahili. I learned these languages to get at the primary data.

Granted due to Doxa, cultural background can influence your research, but to claim it plays the most important part in how you interpret the research material is unfounded.

LOL. I don't believe you think before you write. Every author you quote is European, and you have interpreted the data from a Eurocentric perspective. It is you who are infleunced by Eurocentric cultural influences not me. You are careful to write about themes already supported by the status quo. Eurocentrists have decided that the origins of ancient people who lived in Egypt and Sudan in ancient times was the Sahara . They also agree that haplogroup L1, L2 and L3(x M,N)are African, and haplotype E, V88 etc., are African.

Like most african/negro researchers you talk only about haplogroups europeans have claimed belong to africans and negroes such as hg mtDNA L's, and y-chromosome E. It is you, that is influenced by Eurocentricity not me. I don't allow Europeans to decide for me what is African.

Unlike you I don't allow Europeans to decide on what is African/negro and what is European. I am an Afrocentrist. as a result I follow the paradigms and theories developed by earlier Afrocentrists.

Hypotheses are self-generating. Since we know that the Kushites took civilization to Eurasia, we can hypothesize that the major haplogroups found among the descendants of the Kushites such as mtDNA M and N, and y-chromosomes R,J, K,T,H etc.,have to also be African in origin. As a falsificationist writing about the origins of mtDNA M and N, and y-chromosone R, as African in origin, instead of existing in Africa as a result of a back migration is a continuation of Afrocentric theory construction.

You like most African/negro researchers today only write about topics sanctioned by Europeans. You manifest discussion of haplogroup E, because Eurocentrists have said it is okay to claim African origin of this haplogroup while any other haplogroup found among Europeans, if they exist among Africans, is the result of a back migration of 'European' into Africa.

It is sad that you and other contemporary researchers only write what Europeans "allow" you to write about. Concentrating on haplotype E, is the same as only writing about the West African kingdoms.

The early Afrocentrist were all expert in latin and Greek. These researchers such as DuBois , Parker, and the early group knew mainly german, latin, and greek. J,A, Rogers knew latin and french, None of these researchers who founded Afrocentrism knew any African languages, they only knew European languages but they were not Eurorocentric.

You are ghettoized in what you research (i.e,. concentrate on haplogroup E) . Free your mind and stop being a coward,

.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
You can trick the novices on this site Ultimate because you have failed to study J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.


I have taught research for years. I have taught my students that a good hypothesis is self-generating.

The Afrocentric study of ancient history (ASAH) is based on four hypotheses confirmed by 200 years of research.

The paradigms for ASAH predicted four hypotheses that were unknown at the time the "Ancient Model" of history was developed, to guide the development of scientific knowledge for the africalogical study of early history. These propositions based on the "Ancient Model" are:

(1) If Blacks founded civilization in Asia and Africa , they may have influenced civilization in the Americas.

(2) If Blacks founded civilization in West Asia, Africa and Europe, archaeological data will support their earlier presence in these regions of the world.

(3) If Blacks founded the first civilizations, they also invented writing and other elements of social and scientific technology.

(4) If Blacks founded civilization they probably founded civilization throughout Asia and Europe.

Given the two empirical paradigms and four predicted hypothesse related to the "Ancient Model", africalogical ancient history research increase the precision of the application of afrocentric research methods and scope of research in this area .

These hypotheses make Afrocentric researchers falsificationists. The falsificationists seeks to confirm or disconfirm the four ASAH hypotheses.

Euronuts always claim that Afrocentrism lacks a scientific base but they never provide counter evidence falsifying the four ASAH.


Coconut africans and african-americans, Fake Asian and European writers will never define OUR history.





Knowledge is cumulative. In other words we build new knowledge on the research of the giants in our field. From your lack of knowledge about DuBois' it is clear you have no recognition of the fact that what you guys are writing about has already been discussed formerly, and your job should be confirming or disconfirming what these giants wrote.

I have taught educational philosophy and research methods for year . In these classes I just don't talk about contemporary educators I also talk about the Greek philosophers, who influenced the field.

Ultimate I have posted the following previously. I hope you will read it this time and begin to recognize that what Ironlion, Mike, Marc and I write about is part of a 200 year tradition of Afro-American scholarship. Learn to respect your own scholars. Don't let white supremacy continue to blind you to the truths of history.

Afrocentrism, is a mature social science that was founded by Afro-Americans almost 200 years ago.

These men and women provided scholarship based on contemporary archaeological and historical research the African/Black origination of civilization throughout the world. These Afro-American scholars, mostly trained at Harvard University (one of the few Universities that admitted Blacks in the 19th Century) provide the scientific basis the global role played by African people in civilizing the world.

Afrocentrism and the africalogical study of ancient Black civilizations was began by Afro-Americans.



Edward Blyden

The foundation of any mature science is its articulation in an authoritive text (Kuhn, 1996, 136). The africalogical textbooks published by Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) provided the vocabulary themes for further afrocentric social science research.

The pedagogy for ancient africalogical research was well established by the end of the 19th century by African American researchers well versed in the classical languages and knowledge of Greek and Latin. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) in the Freedom Journal, were the first African Americans to discuss and explain the "Ancient Model" of history.



These afrocentric social scientists used the classics to prove that the Blacks founded civilization in Egypt, Ethiopia, Babylon and Ninevah. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) made it clear that archaeological research supported the classical, or "Ancient Model" of history.

Edward Blyden (1869) also used classical sources to discuss the ancient history of African people. In his work he not only discussed the evidence for Blacks in West Asia and Egypt, he also discussed the role of Blacks in ancient America (Blyden, 1869, 78).

By 1883, africalogical researchers began to publish book on African American history. G.W. Williams (1883) wrote the first textbook on African American history. In the History of the Negro Race in America, Dr. Williams provided the schema for all future africalogical history text.



Dr. Williams (1883) confirmed the classical traditions for Blacks founding civilization in both Africa (Egypt, Ethiopia) and West Asia. In addition, to confirming the "Ancient Model" of history, Dr. Williams (1883) also mentioned the presence of Blacks in Indo-China and the Malay Peninsula. Dr. Williams was trained at Howard.



A decade later R.L. Perry (1893) also presented evidence to confirm the classical traditions of Blacks founding Egypt, Greece and the Mesopotamian civilization. He also provided empirical evidence for the role of Blacks in Phoenicia, thus increasing the scope of the ASAH paradigms.



Pauline E. Hopkins (1905) added further articulation of the ASAH paradigms of the application of these paradigms in understanding the role of Blacks in West Asia and Africa. Hopkins (1905) provided further confirmation of the role of Blacks in Southeast Asia, and expanded the scope of africalogical research to China (1905).

This review of the 19th century africalogical social scientific research indicate confirmation of the "Ancient Model" for the early history of Blacks. We also see a movement away from self-published africalogical research, and publication of research, and the publication of research articles on afrocentric themes, to the publication of textbooks.

It was in these books that the paradigms associated with the "Ancient Model" and ASAH were confirmed, and given reliability by empirical research. It was these texts which provided the pedagogic vehicles for the perpetuation of the africalogical normal social science.

The afrocentric textbooks of Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) proved the reliability and validity of the ASAH paradigms. The discussion in these text of contemporary scientific research findings proving the existence of ancient civilizations in Egypt, Nubia-Sudan (Kush), Mesopotamia, Palestine and North Africa lent congruency to the classical literature which pointed to the existence of these civilizations and these African origins ( i.e., the children of Ham= Khem =Kush?).

The authors of the africalogical textbooks reported the latest archaeological and anthropological findings. The archaeological findings reported in these textbooks added precision to their analysis of the classical and Old Testament literature. This along with the discovery of artifacts on the ancient sites depicting Black\African people proved that the classical and Old Testament literature, as opposed to the "Aryan Model", objectively identified the Black\African role in ancient history. And finally, these textbooks confirmed that any examination of references in the classical literature to Blacks in Egypt, Kush, Mesopotamia and Greece\Crete exhibited constancy to the evidence recovered from archaeological excavations in the Middle East and the Aegean. They in turn disconfirmed the "Aryan Model", which proved to be a falsification of the authentic history of Blacks in early times.

The creation of africalogical textbooks provided us with a number of facts revealing the nature of the afrocentric ancient history paradigms. They include a discussion of:

1) the artifacts depicting Blacks found at ancient sites

recovered through archaeological excavation;

2) the confirmation of the validity of the classical and Old

Testament references to Blacks as founders of civilization in Africa and Asia;

3) the presence of isolated pockets of Blacks existing outside Africa; and

4) that the contemporary Arab people in modern Egypt are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.


The early africalogical textbooks also outlined the africalogical themes research should endeavor to study. A result, of the data collected by the africalogical ancient history research pioneers led to the development of three facts by the end of the 19th century, which needed to be solved by the afrocentric paradigms:

(1) What is the exact relationship of ancient Egypt, to Blacks in other parts of Africa;

(2) How and when did Blacks settle America, Asia and Europe;

(3) What are the contributions of the Blacks to the rise, and cultural expression ancient Black\African civilizations;

(4) Did Africans settle parts of America in ancient times.

As you can see the structure of Afrocentrism were made long before Boas and the beginning of the 20th Century.In fact , I would not be surprised if Boas learned what he talked about from the early Afrocentric researchers discussed in this post.

As you can see Afro-Americans have be writing about the Global history of ancient Black civilizations for almost 200 years. It was Afro-Americans who first mentioned the African civilizations of West Africa and the Black roots of Egypt. These Afro-Americans made Africa a historical part of the world.

Afro-American scholars not only highlighted African history they also discussed the African/Black civilizations developed by African people outside Africa over a hundred years before Bernal and Boas.

Your history of what you call "negrocentric" or Black Studies is all wrong. It was DuBois who founded Black/Negro Studies, especially Afro-American studies given his work on the slave trade and sociological and historical studies of Afro-Americans. He mentions in the World and Africa about the Jews and other Europeans who were attempting to take over the field.

Hansberry
There is no one who can deny the fact that Leo Hansberry founded African studies in the U.S., not the Jews.Hansberry was a professor at Howard University.

Moreover, Bernal did not initiate any second wave of "negro/Blackcentric" study for ancient Egyptian civilization. Credit for this social science push is none other than Chiek Diop, who makes it clear that he was influenced by DuBois.



DuBois


These scholars recognized that the people of ancient Greece, Southeast Asia and Indo-China were African people. When giants in study of Afrocentrism discussed Blacks in Asia they were talking about people of African descent. So when you claim that these civilizations should be outside the study area of Afrocentric scholars you don't know what you're talking about.

The culture of thes scholars was American. English was their native language, yet these features did not make them parrot what Europeans wrote. These researchers used anthropological, archaeological historical and linguistic evidence to support their conclusions.They were the researchers who acknowledged that Africans built medieval civilizations in Africa, when Europeans claimed Africans did not have a history.

It is only natural that these well founded hypotheses developed by these scholars can be supported by population genetics.


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Winters, C.A. (1979). Manding Scripts in the New World", Journal of African Civilizations, l(1), 80-97.

Winters,C.A. (December 1981/ January 1982). Mexico's Black Heritage. The Black Collegian, 76-84.

Winters, C.A. (1983a). "The Ancient Manding Script". In Blacks

in Science:Ancient and Modern. (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, (New Brunswick: Transaction Books) pp.208-215.

__________. (1983b). "Les Fondateurs de la Grece venaient d'Afrique en passant par la Crete". Afrique Histoire (Dakar), no.8:13-18.

_________. (1983c) "Famous Black Greeks Important in the development of Greek Culture". Return to the Source,2(1):8.

________.(1983d). "Blacks in Ancient China, Part 1, The Founders

of Xia and Shang", Journal of Black Studies 1 (2), 8-13.

________. (1984a). "Blacks in Europe before the Europeans".

Return to the Source, 3(1):26-33.

Winters, C.A. (1984b). Blacks in Ancient America, Colorlines, 3(2), 27-28.

Winters, C.A. (1984c). Africans found first American Civilization , African Monitor, l , pp.16-18.

_________.(1985a). "The Indus Valley Writing and related

Scripts of the 3rd Millennium BC". India Past and

Present, 2(1):13-19.

__________. (1985b). "The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians,

Manding and Sumerians". Tamil Civilization,3(1):1-9.

__________. (1985c). "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils",

Journal of Tamil Studies , no.27, pp.65-92.

__________.(1986). The Migration Routes of the Proto-Mande.

The Mankind Quarterly,27 (1), 77-96.

_________.(1986b). Dravidian Settlements in Ancient Polynesia.

India Past and Present, 3 (2), 225-241.

__________. (1988). "Common African and Dravidian Place Name

Elements". South Asian Anthropologist, 9(1):33-36.

__________. (1989a). "Tamil, Sumerian, Manding and the Genetic

Model". International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics,18(1):98-127.

__________. (1989b). "Review of Dr. Asko Parpola's 'The Coming of the Aryans'",International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 18(2):98-127.

__________. (1990). "The Dravido-Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". Central Asiatic Journal, 34(1/2):120-144.

___________. (1991). "The Proto-Sahara". The Dravidian Encyclopaedia, (Trivandrum: International School of Dravidian Linguistics) pp.553-556. Volume l.

----------.(1994). Afrocentrism: A valid frame of reference, Journal of Black Studies, 25 (2), 170-190.

_________.(1994b). The Dravidian and African laguages, International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (1), 34-52.

________.2007. Afrocentrism Myth or Science.www.lulu.com Here


Woodson, C.G. & Wesley, C.H. (1972). The Negro in Our History. Washington, D.C. Associated Publisher.


Get up off your knees and learn from the Afro-American scholars who began the study of Blacks in ancient history.


In conclusion, Afrocentrism is a mature social science. A social science firmly rooted in the scholarship of Afro-American researchers lasting almost 200 years. Researchers like Marc Washington, Mike and I are continuing a tradition of scholarship began 20 decades ago. All we are doing is confirming research by DuBois and others, that has not been disconfirmed over the past 200 years.

Aluta continua.....The struggle continues.....
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Like most african/negro researchers you talk only about haplogroups europeans have claimed belong to africans and negroes such as hg mtDNA L's, and y-chromosome E. It is you, that is influenced by Eurocentricity not me. I don't allow Europeans to decide for me what is African.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Like most african/negro researchers you talk only about haplogroups europeans have claimed belong to africans and negroes such as hg mtDNA L's, and y-chromosome E. It is you, that is influenced by Eurocentricity not me. I don't allow Europeans to decide for me what is African.

---

I do use Europeans research results but I always re-analyse them and analyse the DATA. I don't take them as truth just because they were written by Europeans. Same for Africans or any other people of course.

One of the main reason of many why I consider only Y-DNA haplogroup A, B and E and MtDNA L and possibly M1 to be African in origin and not other ones like Y-DNA R or MtDNA M and N haplogroup is because those haplogroups are rare in African people but widespread among Eurasian and non-African people.

So if Ancient Egyptians would be all R descendants or any F descendants Y-DNA haplogroups for example. It means they would carry haplogroups which are rare among African populations. So who do you working for? Those arabized moorish muslims? Those Eurasians? Clearly if Ancient Egyptians are E-P2s, A and B carriers, for example, its' not the case. E-P2, as well as A and B haplogroups are widespread among modern African people.

Clearly my point of view is less Eurocentric than yours.

---

LOL.You prove my point, you parrot what you have been taught. Conduct your own original research then you may know the truth.

.
 

---

Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
Many Eastern Ethiopians had sister names to African groups.The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages. In addition the term Mandaga agrees with the title of the Manding tribes: for example, Manda agrees with Mande, the name of major group of Africans, who along with the Dravidians settled many parts of Asia.

Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.

.





William Leo Hansberry gives a great discussion of the evidence of African Kushites ruling in Asia and Africa. Some ancient scholars noted that the first rulers of Elam were of Kushite ( Kerma ? ) origin.

Founder of Elamite civilization came from Kush in Africa. According to Strabo, the first Elamite colony at Susa was founded by Tithnus, a King of Kush. Strabo in Book 15, Chapter 3728 wrote that in fact it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians. Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.



Here is King Xerxes and other Persian Brothers .


William Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook, (1981) Volume 2 noted that:

In Persia the old Negroid element seems indeed to have been sufficiently powerful to maintain the overlord of the land. For the Negritic strain is clearly evident in statuary depicting members of the royal family ruling in the second millenium B.C.

Hundreds of years later, when Xerxes invaded Greece, the type was well represented in the Persian army. In the remote mountain regions bordering on Persia and Baluchistan, there is to be found at the present time a Negroid element which bears a remarkable resemblance to the type represented on the ancient mounments. Hence the Negritic or Ethiopian type has proved persistent in this area, and in ancient times it seems to have constituted numerically and socially an important factor in the population" (p.52) .

. Here is Cyrus















Check out my video on the Asian Kushites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-2xjWIIxK8



Enjoy
 

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Posted by Nebsen (Member # 13728) on :
 
Watching the film" Alexander" the other day, with a friend. Alexander & his army were marching trying to cross over into" India", but, they had to cross the" Hindu Kush" region , could some one please explain this term & how it might have been used doing this time of Alexander & is it still used ?
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

---

so these are Indo Aryans?

Herodotus

70. .... the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired,
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nebsen:
Watching the film" Alexander" the other day, with a friend. Alexander & his army were marching trying to cross over into" India", but, they had to cross the" Hindu Kush" region , could some one please explain this term & how it might have been used doing this time of Alexander & is it still used ?

---

I have it means Hindu Killer.
try a gooogle search
 

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Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
Clyde great follow up. All I can say is impressive.

What I hope is that you and Amun can start another thread and post more. Learning is Fun.

BUT

This is Lioness thread and she asked you to stop posting off topic. Please support our sister.
 

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Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
One of My Friends Lioness gave me this book to read hope you like it:

Wonderful Ethiopians of the Ancient Cushite Empire








 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Thanks KING

_______________________________

Here is the quote again followed by Wallace Budge commentary

______________________________

The History of Herodotus, parallel English/Greek, tr. G. C. Macaulay, [1890], at sacred-texts.com

70. Of the Ethiopians above Egypt and of the Arabians the commander, I say, was Arsames; but the Ethiopians from the direction of the sunrising (for the Ethiopians were in two bodies) had been appointed to serve with the Indians, being in no way different from the other Ethiopians, but in their language and in the nature of their hair only; for the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired, but those of Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men. These Ethiopians from Asia were armed for the most part like the Indians, but they had upon their heads the skin of a horse's forehead flayed off with the ears and the mane, and the mane served instead of a crest, while they had the ears of the horse set up straight and stiff: and instead of shields they used to make defences to hold before themselves of the skins of cranes

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh7070.htm

_____________________________________________

http://archive.org/stream/egyptiansdnitsh03budggoog/egyptiansdnitsh03budggoog_djvu.txt

THE EGYPTIAN SUDAN

ITS HISTORY AND MONUMENTS
E. A. WALLIS BUDGE,

p106-108

The information which the Ichthyophagi brought back to
Cambyses has already been described (see above, p. 90), and we
may pass on therefore to the statement of Herodotus (ii. 104)
about circumcision. He says that the Colchians, Egyptians,
and *' Ethiopians " are the only nations who have practised
circumcision from the earliest times, but he could .not make
out whether the ** Ethiopians " learned the practice from the
Egyptians, or the Egyptians from the ** Ethiopians." In any
case, he says, it is undoubtedly of very ancient date in

(HERODOTUS ON THE SUDAN )

Ethiopia." As to the clothing of the ** Ethiopians " he says
(vii. 69) that they wore skins of leopards and lions, and that they
were armed with palm-stem bows, four cubits long ; the arrows
were short and tipped, not with iron, but with a stone. Their
spears were tipped with the horns of antelopes, and tliey had
knotted clubs. When they went into battle they painted their
bodies half with chalk and half with vermilion. The monuments
prove the truth of all these statements except the last, and if we
had reliefs with coloured battle scenes upon them, we should
probably find it to be true also. Herodotus divided (vii. 70) the
** Ethiopians'* into two classes, *' Eastern," and '' Western,'* the
languages and hair of each being different ; the former had
straight hair, and the latter woolly hair.

From this we see that Herodotus calls the negro tribes to the
west of the White Nile "Western Ethiopians," and the light or
red-skinned tribes of the Eastern Desert and Blue Nile ** Eastern
Ethiopians." He adds the interesting information that the
*' Eastern Ethiopians " wore upon their heads the scalps of horses,
with the ears and mane attached ; the ears were made to stand
upright, and the mane served as a crest. For shields this people
made use of the skins of cranes. Finally, he says (iii. 114),
where the south declines towards the setting sun, lies the country
called Ethiopia, the last inhabited land in that direction. There
gold is obtained in great plenty, huge elephants abound, and wild
trees of all sorts, and -ebony; and the men are taller, handsomer,and longer-lived than anywhere else. Herodotus here un-
doubtedly refers to the countries on the Blue Nile, and his
information as to their products is correct.

______________________________________________

shields they used to make defences to hold before themselves of the skins of cranes

I may have to update again.
Herodotus:
"These Ethiopians from Asia"
^^^ could they be Asiatics living in North Africa? Tehenu perhaps?


However check this out (although a key citation missing)

wikipedia:


Kassites

The Kassites were an ancient Near Eastern people who controlled Babylonia after the fall of the Old Babylonian Empire ca. 1531 BC and until ca. 1155 BC , The horse, which the Kassites worshipped, first came into use in Babylonia at this time. The Kassite language has not been classified


Herodotus and other ancient Greek writers sometimes referred to the region around Susa as "Cissia", a variant of the Kassite name. However, it is not clear if Kassites were actually living in that region so late.

Herodotus was almost certainly[citation needed] referring to Kassites when he described "Asiatic Ethiopians" in the Persian army that invaded Greece in 492 BC. Herodotus was presumably[citation needed] repeating an account that had used the name "Cush", or something similar, to describe the Kassites; the similar name "Kush" was also, purely by coincidence, a name for Ethiopia. A similar confusion of Kassites with Ethiopians is evident in various ancient Greek accounts of the Trojan war hero Memnon, who was sometimes described as a "Cissian" and founder of Susa, and other times as Ethiopian. According to Herodotus, the "Asiatic Ethiopians" lived not in Cissia, but to the north, bordering on "Paricanians" who in turn bordered on the Medes. The Kassites were not geographically linked to Kushites and Ethiopians, nor is there any documentation describing them as similar in appearance, and the Kassite language is regarded as a language isolate, utterly unrelated to any language of Ethiopia or Kush/Nubia,[8] although more recently a possible relationship to the Hurro-Urartian family of Asia Minor has been proposed.[9] However, the evidence for its genetic affiliation is meager due to the scarcity of extant texts.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
The Turks only recently entered the region. Central Asia was called Kushiya in ancient times not Turkstan. According to Col. Rawlinson Iran was called Kushiya or Kushiva in the cuneiform literature. Thus the Eastern Ethiopians were called Kushiya and Puntiya.

The Kassites spoke a Dravidian language.When the Kassites, ruled Iran it was called Kashshu, and the ruling people called themselves Kassites.

The fact that the Kassites called their country Kashshu, make it clear that they were geographically linked to the Kushites and Ethiopians since the area was called Kushiya in cuneiform text according to Rawlinson.

Anatolia was also called Kush. The people ruling the area before the coming of the Hittites were the Kaska and Hattian people.The gods of the Hattic people were Kashu and Kusuh.

The major rulers of Central Asia were the Kushan> Kus> people. The Kushana were also d Tokarian. This is the Hindu name for the Kushan people. We refer to these people as Kushana. The Kushan ruled Turkestan until the8th Century, when the Uighurs invaded the area.The Uighurs destroyed the Kucha and Karasahr empires.

The homeland of the Altaic speakers, especially the Turkic people was central and Western Mongolia. The dispersal of the Turkic speakers began during the 6th and 7th centuries of our era. They did not enter Central Asia until the 8th century A.D. The presence of Dravidian loan words in the Altaic group suggest that although the Greeks dominated Bactria for generations, remnants of the ancient widespread distribution of Dravidian settlements in central Asia existed up until the Turks arrived in the region .

.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
Using boats the Eastern Ethiopians/Kushites moved down ancient waterways many now dried up, to establish new towns in Asia and Europe after 3500 BC. The Eastern and Western Kushites remained supreme around the world until 1400-1200 BC. During this period the Hua (Chinese) and Indo-European (I-E) speakers began to conquer the Kushites whose cities and economies were destroyed as a result of natural catastrophes which took place on the planet between 1400-1200 BC. Later, after 500 AD, Turkish speaking people began to settle parts of Central Asia. This is the reason behind the presence of the K-s-h element in many place names in Asia e.g., Kashgar, HinduKush, and Kosh. The HinduKush in Harappan times had lapis lazuli deposits.

Kushites expanded into Inner Asia from two primary points of dispersal : Iran and Anatolia. In Anatolia the Kushites were called Hattians and Kaska. In the 2nd millennium BC, the north and east of Anatolia was inhabited by non-I-E speakers.

Anatolia was divided into two lands “the land of Kanis” and the “land of Hatti”. The Hatti were related to the Kaska people who lived in the Pontic mountains.

Hattians lived in Anatolia. They worshipped Kasku and Kusuh. They were especially prominent in the Pontic mountains. Their sister nation in the Halys Basin were the Kaska tribes. The Kaska and Hattians share the same names for gods, along with personal and place-names . The Kaska had a strong empire which was never defeated by the Hittites.

Singer (1981) has suggested that the Kaska, are remnants of the indigenous Hattian population which was forced northward by the Hittites. But at least as late as 1800 BC, Anatolia was basically settled by Hattians.

Anatolia was occupied by many Kushite groups,including the Kashkas and or Hatti. The Hatti , like the Dravidian speaking people were probably related .



Some of the Tehenu or Kushites settled Anatolia. Some of the major Anatolian Kushite tribes were the Kaska and Hatti speakers who spoke non-IE languages called Khattili. The gods of the Hattic people were Kasku and Kusuh (< Kush).

The Hattic people, may be related to the[b] Hatiu, one of the Delta Tehenu tribes. Many archaeologist believe that the Tehenu people were related to the C-Group people. The Hattic language is closely related to African and Dravidian languages for example:

• •English ……Hattic …..Egyptian…….. Malinke (Mande language)
  
  powerful ……ur………. wr'great,big' ………fara
  
  protect…….. $uh……… swh …………………solo-
  
  head …………tup ………tp ……………tu 'strike the head'
  
  up,upper….. tufa ………..tp……………… dya, tu 'raising ground'
  
  to stretch put… pd ………pe,……………….. bamba
  
  o prosper …….falfat …..-- …………………..find'ya
  
  pour ……………duq …….---………………….. du 'to dispense'
  
  child …………..pin………,pinu………………… den
  
  
  Mother ………..na-a ………--…………………….. na
  
  lord …………….sa ………..--………………………. sa
  
  place ………….-ka………… -ka

• Dravidian Hurrian
  
  a a
  
  -kku -ikka
  
  imbu impu
  
  
  
  There are analogous Dravidian and Hurrian terms:
  
  
  
  English Hurrian Dravidian
  
  mountain paba parampu
  
  lady,woman aallay ali
  
  King Sarr,zarr Ca, cira
  
  god en en
  
  give tan tara
  
  to rule irn ire
  
  father attai attan
  
  wife,woman asti atti

• Hurrian Sanskrit
  
  Mi-it-va Mitra
  
  Aru-na Varuna
  
  In-da-ra Indra
  
  Na-sa-at-tiya Nasatya

• English Hurrian Sanskrit Tamil
  
  One aika eka okka ‘together’
  
  Three tera tri
  
  Five panza panca añcu
  
  Seven satta sapta
  
  Nine na nava onpatu
  
  
  
  Other Hurrian terms relate to Indo-Aryan:
  
  
  
  English Hurrian I-A Tamil
  
  Brown babru babhru pukar
  
  Grey parita palita paraitu ‘old’
  
  Reddish pinkara pingala puuval
  
  
  
  English Mitanni Vedic Tamil
  
  Warrior marya marya makan, maravan

References:

Itamar Singer, Hittites and Hattians in Anatolia at the beginning of the Second Millennium B.C., Journal of Indo-European Studies, 9 (1-2) (1981), pp.119-149.

.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
Hurrians is closely related to the Dravidian group of languages.


An important group in Anantolia in addition to the Hatti, were the Hurrians. The Hurrians enter Mesopotamia from the northeastern hilly area . They introduced horse-drawn war chariots to Mesopotamia .

Hurrians penetrate Mesopotamia and Syria-Palestine between 1700-1500 BC. The major Hurrian Kingdom was Mitanni, which was founded by
Sudarna I (c.1550), was established at Washukanni on the Khabur River. The Hurrian capital was Urkesh, one of its earliest kings was called Tupkish.

Linguistic and historical evidence support the view that Dravidians influenced Mittanni and Lycia.

Most of what we know about Hurrian comes from theTel al-Armarna letters. These letters were written to the Egyptian pharaoh. These letters are important because they were written in a language different from diplomatic Babylonian.

The letters written in the unknown language werenumbered 22 and 25.In 1909 Bork, in Mitteilungen der Vorderasiatische Gesellschaft, wrote a translation of the letters.

In 1930, G.W. Brown proposed that the words inletters 22 and 25 were Dravidian especially Tamil. Brown (1930),has shown that the vowels and consonants of Hurrian and Dravidian are analogous. In support of this theory Brown (1930) noted the following similarities between Dravidian and Hurrian: 1)presence of a fullness of forms employed by both languages; 2) presence of active and passive verbal forms are notdistinguished; 3) presence of verbal forms that are formed by particles; 4) presence of true relative pronouns is not found in these languages; 5) both languages employ negative verbal forms; 6) identical use of -m, as nominative; 7) similar pronouns; and 8)similar ending formations.

The linguistic evidence discussed above isconsistent with the view that the only Indian elements in Anatolian culture were of Dravidian ,rather than Indo-Aryan origin. This evidence from Mittanni adds further confirmation to the findings of N. Lahovary in Dravidian Origins and the West, that prove the earlier presence of Dravidian speakers in Anatolia.

.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 


You can find out more about the Eastern Ethiopians in my book The Ancient Black Civilizations of Asia

[Kindle Edition] http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CNXRFBE

[Hardcopy] CreateSpace eStore: https://www.createspace.com/4261215



I also discuss this population in my book Ancient History of Tamils in Central Asia

Order Createspace eStore: https://www.createspace.com/4587837

.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
In the time of Alexander the Great, the Hindu Kush range was referred to as the Caucasus Indicus or the "Indian Caucasus"
The name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah



The people of the Hindu Kush region today have straight hair

If you were to theorize that there was an earlier point in time they had afro hair like some Ethiopians there is no way to tell when it was

Much further South the Tamils also have straight hair




Clyde, they have very straight hair so in that regard they are different from many of the Ethiopians with afro hair.
Why?

It probably takes time in tens of thousands of years for one type of hair to transition to extreme other type
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
^^^This is a good question but the answer can be elusive. That's like asking why are some birds red others are grey. Or why do some dogs have hair and other dogs have fur.

Plus there is no single type of hair in Africa.





Enviromental factors have also played a role in the development of an African/Black Variety. For example , the narrow slanted eyes of most Blacks living in the Sahel, South India and Northeast and West Africa such as the Dravidians, some Egyptians, Nubians, Fulani and Ethiopians, are probably adaptations of Blacks during the previous Ice Age, when much of the area around Lake Chad is suppose to have been a glacial area.
.



.
Many scholars believe that the melting of these glaciers may have been the cause for the appearence of numerous Lakes, rivers and streams in the Sahara. The narrow slanted eyes of Blacks here in the United States and Western Africa result from the descent from African people who formed an extra layer of fat to keep out the cold of the Ice Age. This cold and ice had little effect on the skin color/pigmentation of the African.





The straight hair hair of groups such as the Australians, East indians (Dravidians)and Somalis probably originated in Africa.

The ancestors of these groups probably lived in periglacial regions of Africa where straight hair probably was an adaptation of some local populations.
.



.
The Dravidians for example were part of the Maa Confederation and lived in the highland areas of Middle Africa like the Hoggar and Tibesti, until after the great flood when they migrated out of the highlands into the valley regions, and thence to Asia, where along with the Mande speakers the Dravidians expanded into Iran, India and eventually China.

In summary the straight hair of Africans, and Eastern Ethiopians probably relates to living in the periglacial regions of Africa before the great glaciers melted completely.


Further Reading;


http://books.google.com/books?id=wBXdka5y9KwC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=glaciers+tibesti+mountains&source=bl&ots=VWJdFO82ZH&sig=_NmqFPtXjgo0xetJCtNt_9wqIXo&hl=en&ei=nAISTb7qFc2-nAecsPT ODg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=glaciers&f=false


http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1386g/africa.pdf


'
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Clyde, there is also the LGM which happened after people left Africa. This could have caused people who left Africa who had afro hair to acquire straight hair.

We also see that the HIndu Kush has cold winters. This region is much closer to Africa than is South Asia and Australia.

People could have acquired straight hair there add to that the LGM and then became dark again, which happens more quickly as they then went South again and wound up in South Asia and Oceana


With this in mind when you say
"The straight hair hair of groups such as the Australians and East indians (Dravidians) probably originated in Africa."
you might not be correct.
If you were correct there should be larger populations of people including male adults with bone straight hair like East Asians and some Tamil have. There should be a whole tribe of people with hair like this.
Instead in Africa there are people with bushy stiff or curly hair and they are spinkled in very lightly mainly in coastal countires with an old history of maritime trade
 

---

Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Clyde, there is also the LGM which happened after people left Africa. This could have caused people who left Africa who had afro hair to acquire straight hair.

We also see that the HIndu Kush has cold winters. This region is much closer to Africa than is South Asia and Australia.

People could have acquired straight hair there add to that the LGM and then became dark again, which happens more quickly as they then went South again and wound up in South Asia and Oceana


With this in mind when you say
"The straight hair hair of groups such as the Australians and East indians (Dravidians) probably originated in Africa."
you might not be correct.
If you were correct there should be larger populations of people including male adults with bone straight hair like East Asians and some Tamil have. There should be a whole tribe of people with hair like this.
Instead in Africa there are people with bushy stiff or curly hair and they are spinkled in very lightly mainly in coastal countires with an old history of maritime trade

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Clyde, there is also the LGM which happened after people left Africa. This could have caused people who left Africa who had afro hair to acquire straight hair.

We also see that the HIndu Kush has cold winters. This region is much closer to Africa than is South Asia and Australia.

People could have acquired straight hair there add to that the LGM and then became dark again, which happens more quickly as they then went South again and wound up in South Asia and Oceana


With this in mind when you say
"The straight hair hair of groups such as the Australians and East indians (Dravidians) probably originated in Africa."
you might not be correct.
If you were correct there should be larger populations of people including male adults with bone straight hair like East Asians and some Tamil have. There should be a whole tribe of people with hair like this.
Instead in Africa there are people with bushy stiff or curly hair and they are spinkled in very lightly mainly in coastal countires with an old history of maritime trade

---

More continuous nonsense.


You still fail to scientifically describe the transition from "stereotype" kinky African hair to "bone straight". Just like you do when it comes to facial traits.

Africa has many climatic zones and terrains effecting populations over the thousands of years, yet in your low IQ delusional mind the all should has stayed stagnant.

By the way, about which Fula do you speak, "expert"? Explain how "Arabs became in their appearances"? Did their traits popup all of a sudden? lol


You are so ridiculous you will post Europeans with tick Afro type hair then claim it's indigenous to Europeans. lol




 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Africa has many climatic zones and terrains effecting populations over the thousands of years, yet in your low IQ delusional mind the all should has stayed stagnant.

By the way, about which Fula do you speak, "expert"? [/QB]

---

To say that no phenotypes evolved outside of Africa is wrong


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Africa has many climatic zones and terrains effecting populations over the thousands of years, yet in your low IQ delusional mind the all should has stayed stagnant.

By the way, about which Fula do you speak, "expert"?

---

To say that no phenotypes evolved outside of Africa is wrong

[/QB]

---

Is that your explanation and "scientifical contribution?

quote:

---

HERODOTUS - BIOGRAPHY


Herodotus (484 BCE – c. 425 BCE) was a Greek Historian as well as known as the Father of Lies. These two titles were commonly held hand in hand as the early recorders of history were attempting to record an objective recounting of events while taking their stories from first-hand, second-hand, third-hand, etc accounts instead of recording a direct experience. Also entwined in the pejorative label of “Father of Lies” is that Herodotus was susceptible to subjective inclusion or exclusion of histories based on his personal involvement with peoples. Thebans and Corinthians who both denied him funds for his work subsequently suffered not the prettiest of pictures when recounted in Herodotus' work. Athenians gave him a fortune, thus perhaps securing a favorable telling of their exploits. Regardless, Herodotus was one of the first writers to bring together historical accounts (whether tweaked by the tellers or himself or not) and the only one to have survived in the form of The Histories. Therefore, the moniker of Father of History sticks.

[...]

Herodotus would also talk to many people and would recount the different accounts before choosing to promote the one that he found most probable. This is probably what garnered him the moniker of Father of Lies for within his history exist some pretty tall tales.


[...]

It is speculated that The Histories must have been around 415 BCE. Before that, Herodotus's craft would have looked very much like Homer's. The culture around the Mediterranean was oral and not written and just as Herodotus gained his knowledge from oral storytelling, he passed on much of it in this way as well.

---

--European Graduate School
http://www.egs.edu/library/herodotus/biography/
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


stop being an idoit that is frizzy hair not like Indians hair
and where's the lank limp hair?

Also show a group of adult males with straight Indian type hair in Africa

I'm giving the whole of Africa to work with

And are you aware that Egypt had a heavy influx of Arabs? keep that in mind.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


stop being an idoit that is frizzy hair not like Indians hair
and where's the lank limp hair?

Also show a group of adult males with straight Indian type hair in Africa

I'm giving the whole of Africa to work with

And are you aware that Egypt had a heavy influx of Arabs? keep that in mind.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


[...]

It is speculated that The Histories must have been around 415 BCE. Before that, Herodotus's craft would have looked very much like Homer's. The culture around the Mediterranean was oral and not written and just as Herodotus gained his knowledge from oral storytelling, he passed on much of it in this way as well.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


[...]

It is speculated that The Histories must have been around 415 BCE. Before that, Herodotus's craft would have looked very much like Homer's. The culture around the Mediterranean was oral and not written and just as Herodotus gained his knowledge from oral storytelling, he passed on much of it in this way as well.

---

and why do you have this bolded? what is your point?

---

Do you have a problem with it?


“Father of Lies”!


Whaaaa,



 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


As I stated before, how did Arabs get to their traits, without having trans ion of Africans with thick busy hair?

How did that happen? Did it appear out of nothing?

---

the earliest civilization on the Arabian penninsula was the Ubaid which originated in Iraq and later spread into the east coast of Arabia. Iraq.

That culture is at a latitude parallel to Afrghanistan and Pakistan

That is where the straight hair develops

straight hair, not this frizzy hair, same look black chicks with afros can do their hair into various ways


see this man nobody would confuse him with an African

Dana Marniche believe that straight hair is a cold adapted trait evolved from outside of Africa so you can;t call such a point of view Eurocentric.

What was Diop's point of view on it? I'm not sure
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


As I stated before, how did Arabs get to their traits, without having trans ion of Africans with thick busy hair?

How did that happen? Did it appear out of nothing?

---

the earliest civilization on the Arabian penninsula was the Ubaid which originated in Iraq and later spread into the east coast of Arabia. Iraq.

That culture is at a latitude parallel to Afrghanistan and Pakistan

That is where the straight hair develops

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.

---

curly haired semites

---

Blah blah blah.


I am asking for you to explain scientifically how it's possible that you can go from "stereotype African kinky hair" or pepper corn as you like to call it, how do you go from that to straight hair without having a transition hair texture, such as the busy type?
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.

---

curly haired semites

---

Blah blah blah.


I am asking for you to explain scientifically how it's possible that you can go from "stereotype African kinky hair" or pepper corn as you like to call it, how do you go from that to straight hair without having a transition hair texture, such as the busy type?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.

---

curly haired semites

---

Blah blah blah.


I am asking for you to explain scientifically how it's possible that you can go from "stereotype African kinky hair" or pepper corn as you like to call it, how do you go from that to straight hair without having a transition hair texture, such as the busy type?

---

You are very repetative. I answer your questions and you don't like the answer and then claim I didn't answer it.


The transition between bone straight lank hair and tightly coiled afro kinky hair is looser larger curled hair.

---

quote:

---

Herodotus' dual identity, father of history and father of lies, has a long tradition starting with Cicero.1 Pritchett's monograph aims to critique the recent work of scholars, the "liar school," who support the thesis that "Herodotos was consciously fictionalizing" (9) but is primarily a refutational commentary on the work of Detlev Fehling.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
.


I have asked for you to scientifically explain how one can go from "stereotype African kinky hair to stereotype bone straight hair, without having busy hair somewhere in the middle.

---

"bushy hair" is not a hair type, look into hair types



bushy is a dried out frizzy condition of hair, sometimes also the result of no washing or no brushing.
Other times it is washed but still frizzy

______________________

Cause of transition of hair type, thousands of years, temperature

hot causes coiled

cold causes straight

steps in between coiled and straight =
curly, and wavy

bushy is not a hair type it is a hair condition


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.


I am asking for you to explain scientifically how it's possible that you can go from "stereotype African kinky hair" or pepper corn as you like to call it, how do you go from that to straight hair without having a transition hair texture, such as the busy type?

---

why are you talking about bushy hair or transitional hair when the topic is Herodotus who said the Indians and Eastern Ethiopians have straight hair??? Stay on topic




see the finger? He's pointing to his hair
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
According to Herodotus' list of
Persian satrapies the Eastern
Aithiopians appear in close
proximity to the Paricanians
the two of them composing the
17th satrapy.

So I'd guess if Paricania can
be located Eastern Aithiopia
is somewhere between it and
India the 20th satrapy.



Looks like Baluchistan (today's southeast Pakistan = Herodotus' Eastern Aithiopia)??




PS
a note on spelling
Aithiopia = ancient Greek Ethiopia
Aethiopia = ancient Roman Ethiopia

The ancients didn't mean Abyssinia
i.e., today's Ethiopia, when they
mentioned Ethiopia unless specific
context leads to that conclusion.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
HERODOTUS.


A NEW ENGLISH VERSION, EDITED WITH COPIOUS NOTES AND APPENDICES,
By GEORGE RAWLINSON, 1862


VOL. IV. N


178 THE PARICANIANS AND ETHIOPIANS OP ASIA. App. Bk. VII.

under the Persian sway ; ^ and they maintained the same character
down to the invasion of Alexander, who found in the native prince
of these parts (Poms) and his men, the enemy whom he had most
difficulty in conquering.^ There can be no doubt that they belonged
to the true Arian or Sanscritio stock, to which alone the name of
Indian (Hindoo) properly attaches.

(xx.) The Paricanians are very difficult to locate. It has been
customary to identify them with the Gedrosians of later times,^ on
the notion that their name connects them with the capital city of
that people, which is called Pura (Uovpa) by Arrian.' But the
resemblance on which this theory is built, slight in itself, becomes
wholly valueless when we find reason to believe that Pura is not
really a proper name at all, but merely the native word for " a town,"
which appears in the terminations of Cawnpoor, Nagpoor, Bhurt-
poor, &iG, The Paricanians seem to have had a city, Parican^,
which was known to Hecatseus,* and which may perhaps be denoted
by Parioda in the Peutingerian Table;' but we have no sufficient
means for determining its site. Our data do not really allow us to
say more with any confidence, than that the Paricanians must have
inhabited a r^ion in close proximity to the Ethiopians of Asia ;*
cfr in other words, must have been included within the country now
known as Beloochistan.

(xxi.) The Ethiopians of Asia, as Kennell saw long ago,^ must
represent the inhabitants of the ''south-eastern angle" of the
empire — the tract intervening between Eastern Persia, or Carmania,
and the mouths of the Indus. Here alone, out of India, would '
absolute blacks' be found; and to this country, and the r^onin
immediate contact with it, the name of Ethiopia seems to have been
attached in Grecian legend from a very high antiquity.* The
reasons have been already enumerated,*** which make it in the
highest degree probable that a homogeneous people was originally
spread along the entire coast from the modem Abyssinia to the
Indus.Tlus Cushite race, which probably advanced from the
shore deep into the continent, was at a later date encroached upon
by the more energetic and expansive Arians, who in the region in
question seem to have continually pressed it back, till it was once
more almost confined to the sea-board. From this race, however, the
whole tract east of Kerman (Carmania) was, as late as the time of
the Saasanian princes, called Kusan ; " and they probably constitute
in some measure the stock from which the Brahui division of the
Belooch nation is descended.^' The absence of any mention of
Ethiopians in these parts by the bulk of the later geographers, is
perhaps to be accounted for by the division of the nation into tribes,
and me prevalence of tribe-names — Gedrosi, Oritaa, Arbii," fec. —
over the general ethnic title.

The ancient country of the Ethiopians may be regarded as nearly
equivalent to the modem Beloochistan, which extends fix)m the
Indian Ocean to the Helmend, and from Cape Jask to Kurrachee,
The general character of this tract has been already given. *^ As it
is chiefly rock and sandy desert ; it ccm never have been more than
scantily peopled; and accordingly we hear but little of its inha-
bitants, who seem to have been (at least towards the coast) a weak
race, living on fish," and content to give themselves up at the first
summons of an invader.^*
 

---

Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
Dravidian Indians have various hair textures just like Blacks in Africa.










.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
.


I have asked for you to scientifically explain how one can go from "stereotype African kinky hair to stereotype bone straight hair, without having busy hair somewhere in the middle.

---

"bushy hair" is not a hair type, look into hair types



bushy is a dried out frizzy condition of hair, sometimes also the result of no washing or no brushing.
Other times it is washed but still frizzy

______________________

Cause of transition of hair type, thousands of years, temperature

hot causes coiled

cold causes straight

steps in between coiled and straight =
curly, and wavy

bushy is not a hair type it is a hair condition

---

So now bushy ( frizzy) hair is not a hair texture? But all other forms of hair texture are? What kind of fool are you?


Africa has many different climates and terrains, which in situ lead to different hair textures over the thousands of years. Where the climate can go from extremely hot to modest, within sort period of time. The region also had quite a few climatic shifts.


So, in order to get from coiled kinky to straight you need bushy hair, curly hair. Which is exactly why it's present in abundantly amongst indigenous Africans, as transitional, in the Sahara belt. Showing a white girl with processed hair is not going to help you.


Just the other page you've ranted that those African women have bushy (frizzy) hair, now you claim it's not natural. Your inconsistency is amusing. Yet you'll show some European woman, who suppose has this hair texture indigenously by situ.










http://www.typef.com/article/keep-faux-hair-extensions-clumping/


6. Unruly hair – Frizzy, uncooperative

http://spotonlists.com/misc/fashion/top-10-common-hair-problems/

quote:

---

Unmanageable hairs are another very common and disastrous problem faced by the people. The hair which are not aligned and cannot be managed properly are considered to be unmanageable or unruly hair. If your hair is unruly then it means that they do not listen to you. when your hairs do not cooperate with you then it becomes quite hectic to arrange them in a particular fashion. In such cases it becomes quite difficult go with any certain hairstyle just because your hair are not manageable. It is said that humidity is the major cause for unmanageable hair. The hair tends to fizz up during the humid hours. This problem can be solved by using the hair care products, which can help in preventing the fizzing of our hair.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I am nothing about the earliest civilization in Arabia.

I am speaking of how you get from "stereotype" African kinky hair to "stereotype bone straight hair" without having busy hair somewhere in the middle. How is that possible?


And give straight answers, not weird insinuations.


I am asking for you to explain scientifically how it's possible that you can go from "stereotype African kinky hair" or pepper corn as you like to call it, how do you go from that to straight hair without having a transition hair texture, such as the busy type?

---

why are you talking about bushy hair or transitional hair when the topic is Herodotus who said the Indians and Eastern Ethiopians have straight hair??? Stay on topic




see the finger? He's pointing to his hair

---

I am doing so, because you claim that in Africa only one particular hair texture is and can be indigenous, while that's an outraged lie.

By the way, I too have mentioned Herodotus in several of my posts. How quickly you forget.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
This is the topic of the thread:

_____________________________________________________

The History of Herodotus, parallel English/Greek, tr. G. C. Macaulay, [1890], at sacred-texts.com

70. Of the Ethiopians above Egypt and of the Arabians the commander, I say, was Arsames; but the Ethiopians from the direction of the sunrising (for the Ethiopians were in two bodies) had been appointed to serve with the Indians, being in no way different from the other Ethiopians, but in their language and in the nature of their hair only; for the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired, but those of Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men. These Ethiopians from Asia were armed for the most part like the Indians, but they had upon their heads the skin of a horse's forehead flayed off with the ears and the mane, and the mane served instead of a crest, while they had the ears of the horse set up straight and stiff: and instead of shields they used to make defences to hold before themselves of the skins of cranes


http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh7070.htm

______________________________________________


He is talking about some people who are straight haired.
The quote is not saying "all people of India have straight hair"

The topic of the thread is
are the stright haired people he is talking about people in Ethiopia or people near the Indus River?
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
This is the topic of the thread:

_____________________________________________________

The History of Herodotus, parallel English/Greek, tr. G. C. Macaulay, [1890], at sacred-texts.com

70. Of the Ethiopians above Egypt and of the Arabians the commander, I say, was Arsames; but the Ethiopians from the direction of the sunrising (for the Ethiopians were in two bodies) had been appointed to serve with the Indians, being in no way different from the other Ethiopians, but in their language and in the nature of their hair only; for the Ethiopians from the East are straight-haired, but those of Libya have hair more thick and woolly than that of any other men. These Ethiopians from Asia were armed for the most part like the Indians, but they had upon their heads the skin of a horse's forehead flayed off with the ears and the mane, and the mane served instead of a crest, while they had the ears of the horse set up straight and stiff: and instead of shields they used to make defences to hold before themselves of the skins of cranes


http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh7070.htm

______________________________________________


He is talking about some people who are straight haired.
The quote is not saying "all people of India have straight hair"

The topic of the thread is is the stright haired people he is talking about people in Ethiopia or people near the Indus River?

---

He is also known to be a liar, "father of lies", just like you. Ironically.





http://www.artwanted.com/imageview.cfm?id=1146223


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Ok so your answer is that when Herodotus was talking about what he called "Eastern Ethiopians" with straight hair (and he was probably talking about people near the Indus valley) he was lying. OK that's your position.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
those people have curly hair, stop wasting people's time

---

Now these people have curly hair, more of your inconsistency.










The one who is waisting people's time is you.

quote:

---

Herodotus' dual identity, father of history and father of lies, has a long tradition starting with Cicero.1 Pritchett's monograph aims to critique the recent work of scholars, the "liar school," who support the thesis that "Herodotos was consciously fictionalizing" (9) but is primarily a refutational commentary on the work of Detlev Fehling.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Ok so your answer is that when Herodotus was talking about what he called "Eastern Ethiopians" with straight hair (and he was probably talking about people near the Indus valley) he was lying. OK that's your position.

---

Nowhere did I say that. What I show is the inconsistency. I've cited scholars stating he lied a lot, just like you tend to do a lot. Which is obvious, considering the images I have shown.



















 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] Ok so your answer is that when Herodotus was talking about what he called "Eastern Ethiopians" with straight hair (and he was probably talking about people near the Indus valley) he was lying. OK that's your position.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] Ok so your answer is that when Herodotus was talking about what he called "Eastern Ethiopians" with straight hair (and he was probably talking about people near the Indus valley) he was lying. OK that's your position.

---

Nowhere did I say that. What I show is the inconsistency. [ /QUOTE]

you have no analysis breaking down the Herodotus quote pointing to inconsistency in it.

You said he was the father of lies. Naturally if you post that people will thing that the statement he made is a lie in your view

As usual you have no position on the thread topic which is which location was Herodotus talking about when he said "Eastern Ethiopians" Ethiopia or was it near Pakistan/India

---

quote:

---

The work of Herodotos provides an enormous variety of data about many countries - some of it in fact derived from Hekataios. Although it is probably safe to assume that Herodotos himself never visited India, he was an indefatigable collector of anecdotes from many sources.

---

http://www.adolphus.nl/xcrpts/xcsedlar.html
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Yet another translation, the one Martin bernal uses:

The Histories,
trans . Aubrey de Selincourt (1954)


The eastern Ethiopians -- for there were two sorts of Ethiopians in the army -- served with the Indians.
These were just like the southern Ethiopians, except for their language and their hair: their hair is straight,
while that of the Ethiopians in Libya is the crispest and curliest in the world.


Black Athena: The archaeological and documentary evidence
edited by Martin Bernal










Bernal says that Herodotus may have been referring to the Elamites. If Herodotus had looked at these Perepolis reliefs do they match what he is saying about straight haired "Eastern Ethiopians" ??? At first glance these Elamites don't have straight hair. It looks curly. However it seems to be straight at the top and the ends curl.



This is supposedly a Semitic beduoin. His hair is straight but curls up at the ends. His hair reaches his shoulders. But if it was cut a bit higher, by the top of the neck like the Elamite, that curling would be occuring at around the same point but the top of the sides of his hair and topt would be straight with a slight wave. Some Puerto Ricans have hair like this.


^^^ similarly , the hair is straight on the upper side and on top but only curls on the lower half.
His features are not sterotypically African athough you could argue his features are like certain Horn Africans. But you could just as easily argue his features are Indian or European. His features could be be a lot of people. He has a tiny mouth and no prognothis and virtually no lips.
-this assumes these Persian artists were doing things accurately. I don't think so. If you look at all the Persopolis peoples many have nearly the same face but with different hair and clothing.
The Elamites may have had fuller lips there is no way of knowing.
However that big beard is uncharacteristic of African cultures, regardless and you will see that the Nubians at Persepolis are the ones with no beard.


So the hair on the relief of Elamites, either Herodotus would still consider it straight hair (although it curls at the bottom) or he never saw this relief
or he simply wasn't talking about Elamites when he said "Eastern Ethiopians"

In fact, some Indians are dark and have features that look more typically African than these Elamites, yet they are not African and have very straight hair at the same time, Bernal also mentions Kassites who I had put a wiki quote on earlier. Little is known about them
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

at the same time in another post you'll claim east Ethiopians looked like Northern Egyptians, as light skinned.

---

quote:

---

The ancient country of the Ethiopians may be regarded as nearly
equivalent to the modern Beloochistan, which extends fix)m the
Indian Ocean to the Helmend, and from Cape Jask to Kurrachee,

...

we hear but little of its inha-
bitants, who seem to have been (at least towards the coast) a weak
race, living on fish," and content to give themselves up at the first
summons of an invader.^*

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

According to Herodotus' list of
Persian satrapies the Eastern
Aithiopians appear in close
proximity to the Paricanians
the two of them composing the
17th satrapy.

So I'd guess if Paricania can
be located Eastern Aithiopia
is somewhere between it and
India the 20th satrapy.



Looks like Baluchistan (today's southeast Pakistan = Herodotus' Eastern Aithiopia)??




PS
a note on spelling
Aithiopia = ancient Greek Ethiopia
Aethiopia = ancient Roman Ethiopia

The ancients didn't mean Abyssinia
i.e., today's Ethiopia, when they
mentioned Ethiopia unless specific
context leads to that conclusion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler

PS
a note on spelling
Aithiopia = ancient Greek Ethiopia
Aethiopia = ancient Roman Ethiopia

The ancients didn't mean Abyssinia
i.e., today's Ethiopia, when they
mentioned Ethiopia unless specific
context leads to that conclusion.

---

Which was a broader term Aithiopia or Libya ?
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
The rescinded map


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
wiki:

In the epigraphs of Bistoon and Persepolis, Sistan is mentioned as one of the eastern territories of Darius the Great.

The name Sistan, as mentioned above, is derived from Saka (also sometimes Saga, or Sagastan), one of the Aryan tribes that had taken control over this area in the year 128 BCE.

From the 1st century to the 3rd century CE, the region was ruled by the Pāratarājas (lit. "Pārata Kings"), a dynasty of Indo-Scythian or Indo-Parthian kings.

______________

Herodotus in 650 BCE describes the Paraitakenoi as a tribe ruled by Deiokes, a Persian king, in north-western Persia (History I.101). Arrian describes how Alexander the Great encountered the Pareitakai in Bactria and Sogdiana, and had them conquered by Craterus (Anabasis Alexandrou IV). The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (1st century CE) describes the territory of the Paradon beyond the Ommanitic region, on the coast of modern Baluchistan.
.... that the Median king on whom Herodotus’ account is centered was actually Deioces’ son Phraortes, and it is therefore impossible to give the exact dates of Deioces’ reign, which probably spanned most of the first half of the 7th century B.C.E


Herodotus



The Assyrians ruled Upper Asia[110] for five hundred and twenty years,

and from them the Medes were the first who made revolt. These having

fought for their freedom with the Assyrians proved themselves good men,

and thus they pushed off the yoke of slavery from themselves and were

set free; and after them the other nations also did the same as the

Medes: and when all on the continent were thus independent, they

returned again to despotic rule as follows:–96. There appeared among

the Medes a man of great ability whose name was Deiokes, and this man

was the son of Phraortes. This Deiokes, having formed a desire for

despotic power, did thus:–whereas the Medes dwelt in separate villages,

he, being even before that time of great repute in his own village, set

himself to practise just dealing much more and with greater zeal than

before; and this he did although there was much lawlessness throughout

the whole of Media, and although he knew that injustice is ever at feud,,,,,,

101. Deiokes then united the Median race alone, and was ruler of this:

and of the Medes there are the tribes which here follow, namely, Busai,

Paretakenians, Struchates, Arizantians, Budians, Magians: the tribes

of the Medes are so many in number.


http://www.aolib.com/reader_2707_63.htm

(see p 64-67)

Translated into English by G. C. Macaulay

______________________________________________

^^^ nicely laid out link to the Macaulay tran; of the histories

Advanced Learners' Online Library
aolib.com

Large Free Collection of Electronic Books
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
I propose that if there was an Indo Aryan invasion in the Indus region that started 1500 BC that those invaders could have been dark skinned people similar to the Elamite below, also a Median and Indian


Elamite


Medes


Inidan carrying Gold


^^^ they could all be types of Indo-Aryans -and have dark skin



 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
Races of people according to thelioness :


According to the expert anthropologist firm of Lioness Prod, we can see in the above picture different races of people. Starting on the left:

According to the lioness
1 - The first individual on the left clearly have wavy long hair, not Afro hair. This individual is of indian descent or indian-like descent, not African. - lioness prod.

2 - The second individual from the left is clearly an African, we can see Afro hair. - lioness prod.

3 - The third individual is more difficult to gauge. According to the lioness, he seems to have Afro-like hair with some kind of white onction in them. But if you look more closely, you can see he has dark skin, thin lips and aquiline nose. The mark of an indian person. - lioness prod.

4 - For the lioness, this one is harder to determine because he has braided his hair. But since it's difficult to imagine people going from Afro to long braids like that, you can place this individual in the indian category. Still just to be sure, lets say he's either African or Indian. - lioness prod.

So all those individual would self-describe themselves as Afar (from Djibouti). But according to the lioness, they are wrong about their own identity, according to the lioness, we are assisting here to a nice international meeting of people of different origin involving Indian and African people.

The lioness also would like to ask you to not look at her avatar picture for the duration of this thread.


 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Amun ra stop the BS, I'm not going to even read that. The picture is at dusk you can't even see the people's hair clearly.
Use quotes from me or give up
Use clear and bright pictures or give up



There are about 1.4 million Afar in the three countries: Ethiopia, Djibouti and Eritrea.

Little is known of the actual specific history of the Afar people. The Afar claim a descent from Arabs. Genetic studies in the Horn of Africa and Arabian peninsula indicate long movement between Eastern Africa and Asia across the Red Sea. Oral histories and language affinities of many peoples likewise testify to this long history of human migration and its genetic, linguistic and and cultural exchange.

Popular history gives some insight into the history in the two traditional divisions of the Afar. Tradition indicates that the Asayahamara (The Red Ones) are descended from a group originally invading from the Ethiopian Highlands at one time, who imposed their rule on the Adoyahmara (The White Ones).

It is thought the color designations came from the reddish soil deserts inland, toward the direction the newcomers came from, and the white saline coastal areas, where the Adoyahamara are still more numerous. The Reds remain socially dominant, and claim ownership of the lands, while the Whites tend to be the herders. Both classes are, however, distributed among all the clans of the tribe.
The Afar were active in the Arab slave trade, serving as guides to Arab slave traders. A major slave route to Arabia crossed Afar country, with Afar reportedly still actively trading in slaves as recently as 1928.
The Afar speech is classified as a separate language in the Eastern Cushite group. It is most closely related to Saho (Ethiopia and Eritrea), and more distantly related to the Somali and Oromo groups of languages.
The Afar are one of the people about whom little is available. Their inaccecssibility makes it difficult to obtain reliable objective information.
____________________________________________


enough hypocrisy you are the guy who separates Africans and now you are trying to use me

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:


So as you can see on the genetic distance tree between populations above. African people, as well European, East Asian, Native peoples, etc, are genetically close to each other. They form a genetic family called "Sub-Saharan African" by DNA Tribes.

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
Well, you can't deny basic science. This is another Euclidean distance tree from DNA Tribes using SNP (already posted many times before):



Humanity in general (and Africa) is full of ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural diversity. Which is how it should be imo. If we were all alike, like robots, life would be very boring.
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
DNAtribes is non-science proprietary bullshit
web published with no author byline or data.
Buzzwords do fool the unitiated. I mean is
there such a thing as a non-Euclidean NJT?
The salient issue is what NJ method was
used to build the tree. Where are the
Materials & Methods behind that tree?
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
^^^Knee-Jerk reaction

The DNA Tribes studies are bad news for eurasian nut and undercover eurasian nut on this website. Great Lakes Africans, Southern Africans and Tropical West Africans are still words that gives them nightmares.

Ramses III being E1b1a didn't help them either.

I have no problem with people not knowing everything but when you don't know the difference between Euclidean and NJT, you're not in position to talk **** against any such study.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
wasn't there an old thread where Tukuler aka alTakruri said he was half Greek on his fathers's side? I'll see if I can locate it
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

I have no problem with people not knowing everything but when you don't know the difference between Euclidean and NJT, you're not in position to talk **** against any such study.

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
wasn't there an old thread where Tukuler aka alTakruri said he was half Greek on his fathers's side? I'll see if I can locate it

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
This guy has a lot of hate in him

dishes out the Swedish Bs but cant take it
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Naw, what I got is
a lotta knowledge
I'm ready to share
and I collect more
knowledge
from those who can
give

otherwise

Sounds like u describe u

now if you sevre
I volley
I no ground stroke

u insult
expect insult back

but praytell

what is this Swedish Bs of which u speak?

unless u have more value add to the topic
or to the qualification of phylogenic NJTs


BTW I have al~Takruri Bastards
of every colour and nationality
but I doubt u r 1 of them
cos if I were in yr blood
u wouldn't be so fugly!
 

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Posted by Byron Bumper (Member # 19992) on :
 
BEEP BEEP
SCREECH
KISS CUSS
 

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