Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa 2013
Joseph K. Pickrell et al.
The history of southern Africa involved interactions between indigenous hunter-gatherers and a range of populations that moved into the region. Here we use genome-wide genetic data to show that there are at least two admixture events in the history of Khoisan populations (southern African hunter-gatherers and pastoralists who speak non-Bantu languages with click consonants). One involved populations related to Niger-Congo-speaking African populations, and the other introduced ancestry most closely related to west Eurasian (European or Middle Eastern) populations. We date this latter admixture event to approximately 900-1,800 years ago, and show that it had the largest demographic impact in Khoisan populations that speak Khoe-Kwadi languages. A similar signal of west Eurasian ancestry is present throughout eastern Africa. In particular, we also find evidence for two admixture events in the history of Kenyan, Tanzanian, and Ethiopian populations, the earlier of which involved populations related to west Eurasians and which we date to approximately 2,700 - 3,300 years ago. We reconstruct the allele frequencies of the putative west Eurasian population in eastern Africa, and show that this population is a good proxy for the west Eurasian ancestry in southern Africa. The most parsimonious explanation for these findings is that west Eurasian ancestry entered southern Africa indirectly through eastern Africa.
posted
The claimed admixture is relatively small- 14% in one group, to 5% in another. Furthermore in some cases the differences between modern "Eurasian" DNA and that said to be more ancient is unclear. QUOTE:
"The highest levels of west Eurasian ancestry are found in Khoe-Kwadi speakers (Table 1), particularly the Nama, where our estimate of west Eurasian ancestry reaches 14% (though note we cannot distinguish between the impact of recent colonialism and older west Eurasian ancestry in the Nama using this method). Other populations of note include the Khwe, Shua, and Haijjom, who we estimate to have approximately 5% west Eurasian ancestry."
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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This paper, or at least its abstract, has been floating around the net for several months now. Never bothered to post it. It confirms what has been haunting ''The Explorer'' since a couple of months ago, when Pagani et al 2012 was posted by me. Because Pagani et al had the audacity to contradict ''The Explorer''s emotion-based knee jerk beliefs regarding Horner genetic purity (how dare they!!), ''The Explorer'' took exception to the Pagani paper.
Safe to say, Pickrell et al nuke ''The Explorer's'' fairy tale of a wholly indigenous origin of the SLC24A5 allele in San and Ethiopian populations, and therefore, his emotion-based objection that Ethiopian SLC24A5 represent some mystic wandering African ancestry that's not ultimately connected to Eurasian admixture events. As if his recent slew of intellectual beatings weren't enough, the charlatan just stays taking haymakers to the face left and right.
The notion that SLC24A5 allele is unequivocally "non-African", is nothing more than subjective opining by the source above. Ethiopian populations and southern African San hunter- gatherers have both tested positive for the gene variant, on top of other sub-Saharan groups; the key here, is that both populations are reputed to represent the living remnants of relatively deep-rooted ancestry, when compared to other populations. --The Explorer
^Note his child-like logical fallacy that the mere act of carrying deep-rooted clades is some sort of shield against foreign admixture.
Expect his reaction to the above, assuming he won't cower and hide like he did with the E-M81 & uni/multi-variate blunders, to be riddled with denial, distortions, lies, manipulations and non-replies rather than to simply refute what I, Pagani et al 2012, Kitchen et al 2009, Keita 2004 and Pickrill et al 2013 (among others) have been saying for the longest.
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The idea that the Khoisan acquired Eurasian admixture via Ethiosemitic speakers is pure speculation. There is no archaeological evidence of Ethiopians migrating into East and South Africa, but there is evidence of an ancient migration of Khoisan into Europe based on archaeological and skeletal data.
First Europeans
The first modern European reconstructed by Forensic artist Richard Neave based on skull fragments from 35,000 years ago resembled a Khoisan. This supports the research of Boule and Vallois that South Africans migrated into Europe 35kya. This genetic evidence now supports Boule and Vallois of a khoisan migration into Europe.
There have been numerous "Negroid skeletons" found in Europe. Marcellin Boule and Henri Vallois, in Fossil Man, provide an entire chapter on the Africans/Negroes of Europe Anta Diop also discussed the Negroes of Europe in Civilization or Barbarism, pp.25-68. Also W.E. B. DuBois, discussed these Negroes in the The World and Africa, pp.86-89. DuBois noted that "There was once a an "uninterrupted belt' of Negro culture from Central Europe to South Africa" (p.88) 25-35kya.
Boule and Vallois, note that "To sum up, in the most ancient skeletons from the Grotte des Enfants we have a human type which is readily comparable to modern types and especially to the Negritic or Negroid type" (p.289). They continue, "Two Neolithic individuals from Chamblandes in Switzerland are Negroid not only as regards their skulls but also in the proportions of their limbs. Several Ligurian and Lombard tombs of the Metal Ages have also yielded evidences of a Negroid element.
Boule and Vallois, note that "We know now that the ethnography of South African tribes presents many striking similarities with the ethnography of our populations of the Reindeer Age. Not to speak of their stone implements which, as we shall see later , exhibit great similarities, Peringuey has told us that in certain burials on the South African coast 'associated with the Aurignacian or Solutrean type industry...."(p.318-319). They add, that in relation to Bushman art " This almost uninterrupted series leads us to regard the African continent as a centre of important migrations which at certain times may have played a great part in the stocking of Southern Europe. Finally, we must not forget that the Grimaldi Negroid skeletons sho many points of resemblance with the Bushman skeletons". They bear no less a resemblance to that of the fossil Man discovered at Asslar in mid-Sahara, whose characters led us to class him with the Hottentot-Bushman group.
The Boule and Vallois research makes it clear that the Bushman expanded across Africa on into Europe via Spain as the Grimaldi people. This makes it clear that the Bushman/Khoisan people were not isolated in South Africa.The Eurasian alleles alleged to have been carried by Khoisan as the result of a back migration, may in reality be the result of the ancient spread of Khoisan in Europe documented by Boule and Vallois. .
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^ The reactionary Winters nonsense aside. I am not really surprised at all by these findings. As I've always said, the division of Africa into 'North' vs. 'Sub-Sahara' is a false construct and no such division has ever existed between African populations; therefore if alleged 'Eurasian' genes are found in North Africa then they must be found in so-called 'Sub-Sahara' as well, meaning they can't limit the admixture (or white-wash) to just the 'North'. We have NRY haplogroups R and T for example, the latter being widespread across the Sahel.
The only thing now is to put such 'Eurasian' influence into its proper historical aspect. Are we to assume that such genetic influence suggests "Caucasoid" presence as Tukuler fears? Or does this suggest something else? Again, I am in favor of the constant geneflow between northeast Africa and Southwest Asia all along.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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From blog entry, "Haplogroup Assignment; Old Habits that Die Hard", June 30, 2013:
Pagani et al.'s practice steers clear away from the real complexities of human phylogeny, by hinging their assignment effortlessly on what is considered an "L" clade and what is not, and thereof, facilitating assignment into two neat, seemingly non-overlapping, ancestral lines. The basis for the assignment of remaining segments of the genome, which were not mitochondrial, into an identical two-party grouping of ancestral lines (African and non-African respectively), was mostly left to the imagination of the reader. The few exceptions therein, where the DNA locus was implicated by the name of a gene, as was the case of the SLC24A5 gene, "frequency" was alluded to as the reasoning behind the assignment into one of the two camps of ancestry.
The "derived" variant of the SLC24A5 gene was taken for granted as "non-African" on the mere account of its high "frequencies" in European samples, but it was demonstrated [2] that the distribution pattern of the variant, along with the relevant attributes of other pigmentation genes, elicited caution against that assumption. Among other sub-Saharan groups, the "derived" variant of the SLC24A5 appears in the gene pool of the San, as have "derived" variants of other known "skin pigmentation" genes.
The easing up of skin eumelanin in San hunter-gatherers has generally been attributed to local evolution in lower UV radiation environments they frequent, as opposed to the result of gene flow. In the Ethiopian samples, on the other hand, the presence of the "derived" variant of the SLC24A5 gene was peculiar in that it was not found in tandem with other "skin-pigmentation" affiliated genes whose distribution generally paralleled that of the "derived" SLC24A5 variant, particularly in Europeans. Hence, "frequency" in itself is not a sufficient enough indicator for ascribing a single-source origin in the form of a "non-African" origin. - Extract ends
From blog entry, "What Ethiopian Genetic Diversity—Really—Reveals!", May 15, 2013:
This [SLC24A5] gene, in its derived form, which is said to be under positive selection in "lightly" pigmented populations, was implicated in the San, who as noted above, tend to generally be isolated, and culturally-conservative hunter-gatherers. "Derived" variants of other pigmentation-associated genes were also cited, with respect to the San([5]). It is questionable that this gene is serving as a "non-African" marker in the San. The same issue actually surfaces with regards to its presence in Ethiopian groups:
Secondly:
Given that SLC24A5 is one of the most highly differentiated genes between African and European populations, we then looked for other highly differentiated genes among the outlier windows, but found none...
To further investigate the effect of admixture on the genetic landscape of skin pigmentation in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; however, none were found in our outlier regions.
If this gene, in its "derived" form, was essentially serving as a "non-African" marker in the Ethiopians, then one would expect that other "derived" skin-pigmentation markers would have been introduced along with the SLC24A5 allele, by the foreign "non-African" group(s) that is supposed to have been the source. Skin pigmentation is the byproduct of the consortial work of a number of distinct genes, and so, it's highly unlikely that a "derived" SLC24A5 allele would be introduced without other accompanying skin-pigmentation genes.
No less, it's highly unlikely that only the derived "SLC24A5" allele would survive from a foreign "non-African" source, in a population for which the allele's presence is "potentially disadvantageous", as the authors note, on grounds of the kind of UV-radiation intensive environment they generally reside. Likewise, if as the authors note, the presence of the derived SLC24A5 allele in Ethiopians may be attributable to "socially"-promoted selection, then one would think that other skin-pigmentation genes, which would have accompanied the SLC24A5 allele in an introduction by a foreign "non-African" source, would have likely also survived in some capacity or another, so as to serve the same role that the SLC24A5 may be serving. --Extract ends
As any rational person will glean from these notes, the issues raised undoubtedly emerge from a scientific and objective groundwork.
Kwadi is essentially an extinct KhoiSan language group, and it is fairly known that speakers of said language had largely integrated into surrounding non-KhoiSan speakers. Hence, it is not surprising to find considerable non-KhoiSan ancestry in elements of Kwadi groups.
The San hunter-gatherers on the other hand, as noted above, still maintain their traditional lifestyles and have remained largely isolated from non-KhoiSan groups. This means that they retain mainly their ancestry from before other groups intruded on traditional KhoiSan territory. KhoiSan territory spans southern Africa, and as mentioned, these groups have naturally adapted to the sub-tropical environments of southern Africa.
Bottom line is, there is no evidence whatsoever that the San hunter-gatherers have earned their relaxed skin-pigmentation from "Eurasians", and thus would not have been "light" without such foreign input, as opposed to a natural adaptation to their environment.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Are we to assume that such genetic influence suggests "Caucasoid" presence as Tukuler fears?
What the **** r u talkin bout Jr?
It is what it is.
If geneticist echo Hamiticism than there must be something valid to a revised "Hamitic" model.
Paleolithic movement to Africa from outside? Deep rooted uniparentals make that a fact. Does that fact need to be made into what Maca-Meyer made out of it, paleolithic full blown Caucasians >30k ? dunno bout dat.
Post LGM movement to Africa from outside? Looks like that happened too. Would some of those migrants have so-called caucasoid ('like a Caucasian') features?
Well considering osteo remains of certain E Afr early AMHs those characteristics are not necessarily extra-African except in their extreme pure blanco forms.
Would some of them have even more pinched noses and lips and orthognathism than their E Afr early AMH ancestors? Why not?
What the **** is there to fear? U?
What u need to do Jr is ask for clarification and expansion on themes I present that you obviously don't understand. That and don't presume to speak in my name, restate, or assume to represent me in any way shape fashion or form.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Are we to assume that such genetic influence suggests "Caucasoid" presence as Tukuler fears?
What the **** r u talkin bout Jr?
It is what it is.
If geneticist echo Hamiticism than there must be something valid to a revised "Hamitic" model.
Paleolithic movement to Africa from outside? Deep rooted uniparentals make that a fact. Does that fact need to be made into what Maca-Meyer made out of it, paleolithic full blown Caucasians >30k ? dunno bout dat.
Post LGM movement to Africa from outside? Looks like that happened too. Would some of those migrants have so-called caucasoid ('like a Caucasian') features?
Well considering osteo remains of certain E Afr early AMHs those characteristics are not necessarily extra-African except in their extreme pure blanco forms.
Would some of them have even more pinched noses and lips and orthognathism than their E Afr early AMH ancestors? Why not?
What the **** is there to fear? U?
What u need to do Jr is ask for clarification and expansion on themes I present that you obviously don't understand. That and don't presume to speak in my name, restate, or assume to represent me in any way shape fashion or form.
Of course I was being facetious when I wrote the part you quoted. No doubt the author and many others are trying to revive the Hamitic hypothesis. Though I believe Explorer has already shed light on the issue to end this obfuscation. Unless anyone else has anything to add. (Swenet?)
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Originally posted by Djehuti Of course I was being facetious when I wrote the part you quoted. No doubt the author and many others are trying to revive the Hamitic hypothesis.
^No, they don't, or, at least, they can't from this data. If anything, it destroys the Hamitic hypothesis as it suggests that most of the admixture in East African populations dates to 3kya and linguistically coincides with the introduction of Ethio-Semitic languages per Kitchen et al 2009's glottochronological dating, and other indications.
This admixture date is way too late to pertain to the Afrasan element among proto Egypto-Nubians that Euronuts obsessively want(ed) to include in such a Hamitic construct. In fact, European encounters with Egypto-Nubians (not with Abyssinians and related Horner populations) was the reason why the word 'Hamitic' acquired its current extra-biblical, Caucasian, connotations:
quote:This belief, often referred to as the Hamitic hypothesis, is a convenient explanation for all the signs of civilization found in Black Africa. It was these Caucasoids, we read, who taught the Negro how to manufacture iron and who were so politically sophisticated that they organized the conquered territories into highly complex states with themselves as the ruling elites. This hypothesis was preceded by another elaborate Hamitic theory. The earlier theory, which gained currency in the sixteenth century, was that the Hamites were black savages, 'natural slaves'-and Negroes. This identification of the Hamite with the Negro, a view which persisted throughout the eighteenth century, served as a rationale for slavery, using Biblical interpretations in support of its tenets. The image of the Negro deteriorated in direct proportion to the growth of the importance of slavery, and it became imperative for the white man to exclude the Negro from the brotherhood of races. Napoleon's expedition to Egypt in 1798 became the historical catalyst that provided the Western World with the impetus to turn the Hamite into a Caucasian. The Hamitic concept had as its function the portrayal of the Negro as an inherently inferior being and to rationalize his exploitation. In the final analysis it was possible because its changing aspects were supported by the prevailing intellectual viewpoints of the times.
--Sanders et al 1969
Proponents of the post Napoleonic version of the Hamitic hypothesis (the one we still deal with in contemporary anthropology), on the other hand, push their touted admixture date to the terminal pleistocene, and, more importantly, they postulate the existence of an intrinsic and deterministic link between this admixture and morphometric overlap with Eurasians, so that every population in Africa with such morphometric overlap automatically becomes a recipient of the said admixture.
Logically, Pagani et al 2012 and Pickrell et al 2013's admixture event estimates would not affect, nor explain the features of Gash cultured? Pwenet people depicted in Hatshepshut's Del Bahari temple. It would not explain nor affect the features of the LSA Great Rift Eburran cultured people who are attested since the Terminal Pleistocene, and logically predate it since the features appear 'as is' with no availability of earlier skeletal material that documents a transition.
The radical facial differentiation of these LSA peoples relative to MSA predecessors may represent a parallel evolution event as they have a plethora of traits that are peculiar to them and are not seen in Ethio-Semitic and Cushitic speakers.
quote:All the Upper Paleolithic peoples of Kenya were of Caucasoid or proto-Hamitic stock; they are represented by the Gamble's Cave and Naivasha skeletons, as well as the skeleton from Olduvai in northern Tanganyika. They were tall and dolichocephalic, with long face and narrow nose (the 'Elmenteitan type'); the other is brachycephalic, with a shorter face but also with a narrow nose. These two types are represented by Elmenteita A and F1 (Fig. 5 (2 and 3)) from Bromhead's site. The same types persist into the Neolithic, but now a third variation appears in the ultra-dolichocephalic skulls from Willey's kopje (Fig. 5 (4)); these differ from the Elmenteitan type by having a shorter face, a more prominent nose, and a different kind of mandible.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Just remember Hamiticism is inseparably linked to NE & E Africa as AMH Caucas(ian/oid) so it's not necessarily needing post chalcolithic or historic West Eurasian invaders.
Besides the Wiedner map from Doc Ben, Diop exposed Caucas(ian/oid) AMH E Africans as exemplified by Masai physiognomy in particular.
Think of that geneticist who postulated Maasai as best modern reps of ancient Egyptians, a safe view because of the NE&E African AMH Caucas(ian/oid) ideology correlate of Hamiticism.
= = = = = = =
The human skeletons discovered by Leakey near Elmenteita (Kenya) in the grotto called Gamble's Cave II, and which probably belonged to the same human type as the Olduvai man (northern Tanzania) of the Capsian, have caused much ink to flow. "It is certain that these are not true Negroes, in the usual sense of the word. These are men comparable to the Nilotics in the Great Lakes region, or else comparable to the lighter-skinned populations of those territories. A skeleton recently found at Naivasha (Kenya) obviously belongs to the same type."
From these discoveries, prehistorians, historians, and ethnologists draw conclusions of varying importance concerning the early peopling of Black Africa. In the Olduvai man, Cornevin sees the ancestor of the Nilotic, of the Shilluk, Dinka, Nuer, and Masai. He makes him a Caucasoid. His existence, Cornevin contends, "proves that it is useless to make the East African, improperly called Nilo-Hamitic, come from India or Arabia." Finally, referring to the Naivasha man just mentioned, on the next page he writes that archeological research reveals affinities with the Cro-Magnon race: "tall stature, low, wide face, broad forehead, rectangular sockets, thin nose, little prognathism."
There was no Cro-Magnon man in sub-Saharan Africa. At an interview that Professor Vallois was kind enough to grant me at the Paris Institute of Human Paleontology, this scientist was categorical about this. Only the Boskop man (Transvaal Province, South Africa) was, for a time, considered as a Cro-Magnoid having affinities with the Bushman. But this opinion was later abandoned by its partisans. Cornevin, unfortunately, continues to confuse Grimaldi man -- a "Negroid" with marked prognathism and broad nose -- with Cro-Magnon man, who is not at all prognathous but presents in hypertrophic fashion typical European traits: thin lips, prominent chin, narrow nose. There is reason to reexamine the documents.
The Negro has been there from the beginning; for millennia he was the only one in existence. Nevertheless, on the threshold of the historical epoch, the "scholar" turns his back on him, raises questions about his genesis, and even speculates "objectively" about his tardy appearance ...
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^ The thing is no anthropologist and especially geneticist today worth his credentials would ever use the terms "Caucasoid" or "Negroid". They know full and well that 'racial' divisions of mankind are non-existent... However, what they do instead is simply refer their contrived genetic divisions of 'African' and 'Eurasian'. At least in genetic reports, there is no focus on cranio-facial features at least out right, yet what they do instead is focus in on those populations which display so-called 'Hamitic' or "Cockasoid" traits to look for Eurasian ancestry.
To Swenet, what do you make of Explorer's response that no other differentiated alleles or genes besides SLC24A5 was found??
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Race will always be a part of genomic research.
quote:
J Forensic Sci. 2002 Nov;47(6):1215-23. Characterization of the Caucasian haplogroups present in the SWGDAM forensic mtDNA dataset for 1771 human control region sequences. Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods. Allard MW, Miller K, Wilson M, Monson K, Budowle B. SourceDepartment of Biological Sciences, George Washington University, Washington DC, USA.
Abstract
Currently, the Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods (SWGDAM) mtDNA dataset is used to infer the relative rarity of mtDNA profiles (i.e., haplotypes) obtained from evidence samples and for identification of missing persons. The Caucasian haplogroup patterns in this forensic dataset have been characterized using phylogenetic methods. The assessment reveals that the dataset is relevant and representative of U.S. and European Caucasians. The comparisons carried out were both the observation of variable sites within the control region (CR) and the selection of a subset of these sites, which partition the variation within human mtDNA control region sequences into clusters (i.e., haplogroups). The aligned sequence matrix was analyzed to determine both single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in a phylogenetic context, as well as to check and standardize haplogroup designations with a focus on determining the characters that define these groups. To evaluate the dataset for forensic utility, the haplogroup identifications and frequencies were compared with those reported from other published studies.
PMID:12455642[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
quote:
Am J Hum Genet. 1994 Oct;55(4):760-76. mtDNA and the origin of Caucasians: identification of ancient Caucasian-specific haplogroups, one of which is prone to a recurrent somatic duplication in the D-loop region.
Torroni A, Lott MT, Cabell MF, Chen YS, Lavergne L, Wallace DC. SourceDepartment of Genetics and Molecular Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA 30322.
Abstract
mtDNA sequence variation was examined in 175 Caucasians from the United States and Canada by PCR amplification and high-resolution restriction-endonuclease analysis. The majority of the Caucasian mtDNAs were subsumed within four mtDNA lineages (haplogroups) defined by mutations that are rarely seen in Africans and Mongoloids. The sequence divergence of these haplogroups indicates that they arose early in Caucasian radiation and gave raise to modern European mtDNAs. Although ancient, none of these haplogroups is old enough to be compatible with a Neanderthal origin, suggesting that Homo sapiens sapiens displaced H. s. neanderthaliensis, rather than mixed with it. The mtDNAs of one of these haplogroups have a unique homoplasmic insertion between nucleotide pair (np) 573 and np 574, within the D-loop control region. This insertion makes these mtDNAs prone to a somatic mutation that duplicates a 270-bp portion of the D-loop region between np 309 and np 572. This finding suggests that certain nonpathogenic mtDNA mutations could predispose individuals to mtDNA rearrangements.
PMID:7942855[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID:PMC1918284Free PMC Article
quote:
Am J Hum Genet. 2005 October; 77(4): 676–680. Published online 2005 August 11. PMCID: PMC1275617Charting the Ancestry of African Americans
Abstract.The Atlantic slave trade promoted by West European empires (15th–19th centuries) forcibly moved at least 11 million people from Africa, including about one-third from west-central Africa, to European and American destinations. The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) genome has retained an imprint of this process, but previous analyses lacked west-central African data. Here, we make use of an African database of 4,860 mtDNAs, which include 948 mtDNA sequences from west-central Africa and a further 154 from the southwest, and compare these for the first time with a publicly available database of 1,148 African Americans from the United States that contains 1,053 mtDNAs of sub-Saharan ancestry. We show that >55% of the U.S. lineages have a West African ancestry, with <41% coming from west-central or southwestern Africa. These results are remarkably similar to the most up-to-date analyses of the historical record.
quote: Originally posted by Djehuti: To Swenet, what do you make of Explorer's response that no other differentiated alleles or genes besides SLC24A5 was found??
What about it? It's just his usual lying ass charlatan denialist approach to obfuscating inconvenient data. Right from the onset in the paper's abstract they say that they've identified haplotypes which show affinity with Levantine genetic material. How exactly does the supposed lack of European specific markers wish all these haplotypes away? How exactly does the Levantine affinity with these haplotypes gel with his lying ass claim that their non-African affinity was ''left to the imagination of the readers''?
quote:Using comparisons with African and non-African reference samples in 40-SNP genomic windows, we identified “African” and “non-African” haplotypic components for each Ethiopian individual. (...) The non-African component was found to be more similar to populations inhabiting the Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula (...)
--Pagani et al 2012
Then there is the fact that his lying ass was already confronted (by me) with the fact that Saudi specific lactase persistent associated alleles were found in Ethiopians:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Our age estimate of the G 13915 allele of ~4095 (+/- 2045) years in the Arabian Peninsula would suggest that the introduction of this LP variant might be associated with the domestication of the Arabian camel more than 6000 years ago.
--Enattah et al, 2008
Where this allele is found according to Ingram et al 2006:
quote:Of the populations tested, the -13915*G allele was found to be fairly widespread in eastern Africa and the Middle East. It was most common in the Saudi Bedouins
--Ingram et al 2006
So, ''The Explorer's'' lying ass fabrications aside, of course SLC24A5 isn't some lone Eurasian marker in the Ethiopian populations. Pagani et al's inability to find additional European markers is not indicative of the African origin of Ethiopian SLC24A5; it's simply a reflection of the fact that Europeans are a poor proxy, which Pagani et al already knew beforehand.
The significance of the lack of European specific markers other than SLC24A5 needs to be looked at from the perspective of whether these European specific markers would have been present in the South Semitic speaking source population where this admixture is postulated to have originated from. Not some far flung irrelevant European comparative sample which, BTW, is EXPECTED to not share much, if any, European specific markers with Ethiopians. This is expected based on a lack of European specific haplogroups in Ethiopians.
What the lying ass also failed to reference in his ''objective'' summery:
quote:An intriguing consequence of admixture between populations is the opportunity for packages of genes to be “tested” in different environments. As a result, the genomic regions containing functionally divergent genes might experience either positive or negative selection, depending on whether their adaptive contribution was beneficial or damaging in the new environment, or whether it affected social factors such as sexual selection.
--Pagani et al 2012
The authors then go on to list SLC24A5 as an example of a marker that was under such positive selection in the Ethio-Semitic speaking Ethiopians, which the liar then quoted selectively and out of context to further his dogmatic case.
Using the lack of European specific markers in Ethiopians as an argument against the presence of Middle Eastern specific markers in Ethiopians is like denying Zanj admixture in Yemeni because no Khoisan or Pygmy genes have yet been found in Yemenis. Anyone who has read the paper and knows what I've told him in past discussions knows that his characterization of Pagani et al in that post only indicates that he's a lying low-life who is willing to go to great lengths to convince people of his lies.
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^ Oh wow, never mind! LOL I totally forgot about the Pagani et al. 2012 paper, and so this study (Pickrell et al.) basically ties with the Pagani one. My bad.
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I find it slightly amusing how people who are unable to critically think for themselves appeal to--of all options--some crackpot clown or another who too clearly lacks any sign of critical thinking and independent thought. Shortage of independent and critical thinking is a serious problem in chat venues like ES.
As briefly indicated in my notes above, European variation in skin pigmentation was treated as a model to compare the Ethiopian samples against, because the variant in question is found at its highest frequencies in Europe, leading some to even speculate that this is from where the variant must have spread. Other pigmentation gene variants that generally accompanied the SLC24A5 variant in Europeans have also been implicated in nearby regions, including the so-called "Southwest Asia", which is of course what makes the Ethiopian distribution worth noting in the first place. This is not the sort of information one should expect to come in handy through knuckleheads who are only good for copying & pasting what other people write.
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What i find amusing is that some trolls just keep on lying their ass off. Science is clear on the matter; the derived SLC24A5 allele evinces positive selection in tropical populations due to its additional, non skin-color related functions it codes for, while other European skin pigmentation alleles that don't have these functions can easily experience purifying selection (get weeded out) in new environments where they're not advantageous (such as Southern Arabia, such as Ethiopia). Pagani et al already explained this, but, of course, it fell on deaf ears due to the charlatan's pre-existing commitment to his fairy tale and lying his ass off:
quote:An intriguing consequence of admixture between populations is the opportunity for packages of genes to be “tested” in different environments. As a result, the genomic regions containing functionally divergent genes might experience either positive or negative selection, depending on whether their adaptive contribution was beneficial or damaging in the new environment, or whether it affected social factors such as sexual selection.
--Pagani et al 2012
That some lying ass troll uses the lack of additional European skin color associated alleles, besides the SLC25A5 allele, as evidence that Ethiopian SLC25A5 is not a marker of Eurasian ancestry, is further evidence of the troll's inherent propensity to lie and distort.
It's not uncommon for tropical populations with relatively high derived SLC24A5 to be low on other European skin pigmentation markers. Indeed, Sri Lankan populations display the same pattern:
quote:The two genes SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 were recently identified as major determinants of pigmentation in humans and in other vertebrates. The allele p.A111T in the former gene and the allele p.L374F in the latter gene are both nearly fixed in light-skinned Europeans, and can therefore be considered ancestry informative marker (AIMs). AIMs are becoming useful for forensic identification of the phenotype from a DNA profile sampled, for example, from a crime scene. Here, we generate new allelic data for these two genes from samples of Chinese, Uygurs, Ghanaians, South African Xhosa, South African Europeans, and Sri Lankans (Tamils and Sinhalese). Our data confirm the earlier results and furthermore demonstrate that the SLC45A2 allele is a more specific AIM than the SLC24A5 allele because the former clearly distinguishes the Sri Lankans from the Europeans.
--Soejima & Koda 2006
This is precisely what the lying troll doesn't mention in his ''objective'' posts, because it nukes his frivolous objection that such a scenario in Ethiopian populations contradicts Pagani et al.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Your retard monkey ass shows just how much of a non-existent critical thinking ability you have with each intellectually-dud post you address to me.
Tell the world what this "non" pigmentation related "positive" selection is the SLC24A5 variant supposedly serving in Ethiopians.
Present the proof of this supposed "weeding out" of other European skin pigmentation alleles in Ethiopians, and that this is not just another of those crackpot crap you pulled right outta your fat monkey ass!
You have your fuckhead right up your fat retarded ass:
First you cry like a retarded baby ape, about some supposed due attention not given to the fictitious prospect of other European-associated pigmentation alleles not showing up in the Levant, so as to parallel the Ethiopian distribution profile, because you parrot--without any deep insight of course--the claim about the supposed "non-African" component being "more similar the Levantine profiles than the Arabian Peninsula", which in effect is another observation that was actually used to obliterate your fuckheaded dogma in other discussions, but which you conveniently apply herein for a different dogmatic occasion.
Now, like a sick puppy, you cite a piece that only reaffirms what a complete deadheaded sucker you are, since it only serves to buttress the point (about the SLC24A5) already made in my first post in this thread, and elsewhere.
As I have said, only retards who are nearly as fuckheaded as your monkey ass is, are compelled to spinelessly beg a very sick specimen like you to respond to me, because they lack the basic ability to think for themselves, and address me on their own.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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LMAO. The troll just keeps lying through his filthy teeth! This troll is going full blown ape! Expect him to come out any minute now starting to walk on his knuckles, rub his buttocks and climb in a tree in search of a banana. First the troll asks me to present evidence of another function of the SLC24A5 allele when it was already posted:
quote:After ranking all the 40-SNP windows by the distance between the African and European cloud centers divided by the SD of the European cloud around its center, none of the large Z-score windows were present within the top 1%. We therefore speculate that the excess of non-African SLC24A5 haplotypes must be linked to the biological function of that gene.
--Pagani et al 2012
Then the debilitated troll asks for evidence that the other alleles underwent negative selection, as if light skin pigmentation genes with no useful other functions aren't going to undergo negative selection in tropical environments:
quote:Our data confirm the earlier results and furthermore demonstrate that the SLC45A2 allele is a more specific AIM than the SLC24A5 allele because the former clearly distinguishes the Sri Lankans from the Europeans.
--Soejima & Koda 2006
According to the lying ass troll's bankrupt reasoning, the near lack of derived SLC45A2 in these two Sri Lankan populations (SH, TA) means that Sri Lankans magically acquired most of their European shared SLC24A5 alleles, on their own, independent of admixture with West Eurasian populations, and that only a minor component, about equal in size tot their derived SLC45A2, comes from an outside source. According to the trolls reasoning, this Chinese sample got their derived SLC25A5 independent of outside West Eurasian contact, simply because they tested negative for the derived SLC45A2 marker!
First the troll asks me to present evidence of another function of the SLC24A5 allele when it was already posted:
quote:After ranking all the 40-SNP windows by the distance between the African and European cloud centers divided by the SD of the European cloud around its center, none of the large Z-score windows were present within the top 1%. We therefore speculate that the excess of non-African SLC24A5 haplotypes must be linked to the biological function of that gene.
--Pagani et al 2012
fuckhead queen, this extract is not spelling out "another" (your fictitious) biological function. It's merely speaking to the positive selection of the gene. To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection. You are too fucked in the skull to even properly read a citation that you cherry-picked for dogmatic purposes.
quote:
Then the debilitated troll asks for evidence that the other alleles underwent negative selection, as if light skin pigmentation genes with no useful other functions aren't going to undergo negative selection in tropical environments:
In other words, you fat dumb ass has no ounce of evidence for that crazy ass speculation about some fictitious "weeding out" event that some how magically spoofed out other pigmentation genes from Europe, an origin which you were first against because it didn't jive with your zealotry, then for it when you couldn't think of a dogmatic alternative. You sound like John Kerry but dumber, with a twist: "I was against it, before I was for it."
quote:According to the lying ass troll's bankrupt reasoning, the near lack of derived SLC45A2 in these two Sri Lankan populations (SH, TA) means that Sri Lankans magically acquired most of their European shared SLC24A5 alleles, on their own, independent of admixture with West Eurasian populations, and that only a minor component, about equal in size tot their derived SLC45A2, comes from an outside source. According to the trolls reasoning, this Chinese sample got their derived SLC25A5 independent of outside West Eurasian contact, simply because they tested negative for the derived SLC45A2 marker!
Far from capturing some imagined reasoning, this is just chickenShit red-herring meant to supposedly make you forget that your reference to the Sri Lankan SLC24A5 actually had the unintended effect of advancing my point while making a stupid monkey out of you. It ain't working, retard queen!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Here's another tidbit to contemplate about, fuckhead Cinderella:
Even IF it was supposed that your fictitious unspecified "biological function" is attributable to the SLC24A5 distribution in Ethiopian samples, this actually again serves to refute your rotten fat dumb ass, because it is tacitly saying that gene flow is not fundamental to said distribution, when your punk-ass is rooting for gene flow as that fundamental reason. When a genetic sequence is serving as a gene flow marker, it does not magically lose the selective feature it came fully built up with; rather the selective feature is rendered either deleterious or advantageous, which will govern its subsequent distribution pattern.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: this extract is not spelling out "another" (your fictitious) biological function.
They are saying something that's even more damning to your troll case. Other than SLC24A5 they found no additional skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians that co-occur and are protective in the high latitude environment they were originally, and still are, selected for. They then say the excess of SLC24A5 is due to its biological function. If, as you say, SLC24A5 got selected for in an equatorial population because of their skin colour related function (lol!), explain why complementary genes that have this function, which the Levant affinity having haplotypes say should have been present, aren't there. Start explaining, troll!!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: In other words, you fat dumb ass has no ounce of evidence for that crazy ass speculation about some fictitious "weeding out" event that some how magically spoofed out other pigmentation genes from Europe
Lying ass troll, the whole purpose of that segment of their paper was to test which of the genes that typically occur as ''packages'', have survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment, and which got weeded out:
quote: An intriguing consequence of admixture between populations is the opportunity for packages of genes to be ‘‘tested’’ in different environments. As a result, the genomic regions containing functionally divergent genes might experience either positive or negative selection, depending on whether their adaptive contribution was beneficial or damaging in the new environment, or whether it affected social factors such as sexual selection.
--Pagani et al 2012
To protect your previous lies, you're now lying like the pathologically lying dog that you are. Talk about being knee deep in your own excretions.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: your reference to the Sri Lankan SLC24A5 actually had the unintended effect of advancing my point
Sure. Let me guess, UFOs exist and you've just had telepathic contact with Sasquatch. Lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of SLC24A5. LMAO!
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
The thing is no anthropologist and especially geneticist today worth his credentials would ever use the terms "Caucasoid" or "Negroid". They know full and well that 'racial' divisions of mankind are non-existent... However, what they do instead is simply refer their contrived genetic divisions of 'African' and 'Eurasian'. At least in genetic reports, there is no focus on cranio-facial features at least out right, yet what they do instead is focus in on those populations which display so-called 'Hamitic' or "[Caucasoid]" traits to look for Eurasian ancestry.
.
Um, don't look now, West Eurasian is the new caucasoid / Caucasian.
But apparently unnoticed from my initial post a modern geneticist Maca-Meyer believes in paleolithic full blown Caucasians whom she says are a Near East and Eastern Africa people just as in Weider's map.
Attested presence of Caucasian people in Northern Africa goes up to Paleolithic times.
. . . .
... the Afroasiatic phylum of languages could have originated and extended with these Caucasians, either from the Near East or Eastern Africa ...
Some important issues are pending of resolution to clarify the past and present of the North African Caucasians: To which extent the Neolithic waves substituted the Paleolithic recipients? Which is the most probable origin of these prehistoric occupants? Did they come from Europe, East Africa, Southwest Asia or are they a result of an "in situ" evolution? Is there a correspondence between the Afroasiatic diversification and the spread of Caucasians?
. . . .
... U6 lineages, mainly found in North Africa, are the signatures of a return to Africa around 39,000–52,000 ya. This stresses the importance of its detailed study in order to trace one of the earliest Caucasian arrivals to Africa.
. . . .
The expansion of Caucasians in Africa has been correlated with the spread and diversification of Afroasiatic languages.
Now a decade after her publication geneticists don't have to come out up front and say North Africans are white Caucasian. They just have to include Maca-Meyer in their list of sources.
If they don't take her to task for using Caucasian then they agree with her usage.
Dialectic is stronger than explicit.
Rolling "the Cheikh," Doc Ben, Xyyman, and Zarahan all into one; so-called generalized or undifferentiated AFRICAN AMHs step across the Bab el Mendeb, stay a minute, step back across and voila! here's your Caucasian Africa(n). Nevermind whiteness, fleshless lips, rather long but paperthin noses, and multi-colored eyes and hair developing in a Arabian Peninsula or SW Asia essentially the same environmentally etc as NE Africa was at that epoch.
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They are saying something that's even more damning to your troll case. Other than SLC24A5 they found no additional skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians that co-occur and are protective in the high latitude environment they were originally, and still are, selected for.
Now that it's been established that your "another" biological function for the SLC24A5 variant was a big fiasco of bullshit, let's deal with your next fiasco:
Where, fuckhead queen, are we told specifically about that "no additional skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians that co-occur and are protective in the high latitude environment they were originally, and still are, selected for "?
We know that they did not find skin pigmentation alleles that typically accompany the European distribution of SLC24A5, which was what you were just educated on but met with your thickheaded denials; you wouldn't happen to simply be repeating this very idea, in a supposedly "different" way--according to your stunted intellect, would you?
quote: They then say the excess of SLC24A5 is due to its biological function.
Ok? Tell us something that we don't already know from the paper, fuckhead queen.
quote: If, as you say, SLC24A5 got selected for in an equatorial population because of their skin colour related function (lol!)
Where do I say such a thing, moron? And I mean, a quote, not your usual paraphrasing psycho-babble.
Manufacturing claims will not make you win an argument, my dumb servant. It does the opposite.
quote: explain why complementary genes that have this function, which the Levant affinity having haplotypes say should have been present, aren't there. Start explaining, troll!!
I don't have to explain crap for your idiotic tales; that's your job--it came outta your ass.
However, I will clue you on the no-brainer fact that Ethiopians have their own skin pigmentation genes like any other population. Otherwise, they would not have any pigmentation, you big fat moron! LOL
PS: Clowns who look to you as some sort of a genetic "expert" on ES [of course, where else would such a dumb undertaking take place], and they know who they are, actually insult themselves by doing so.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: In other words, you fat dumb ass has no ounce of evidence for that crazy ass speculation about some fictitious "weeding out" event that some how magically spoofed out other pigmentation genes from Europe
Lying ass troll, the whole purpose of that segment of their paper was to test which of the genes that typically occur as ''packages'', have survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment, and which got weeded out:
quote: An intriguing consequence of admixture between populations is the opportunity for packages of genes to be ‘‘tested’’ in different environments. As a result, the genomic regions containing functionally divergent genes might experience either positive or negative selection, depending on whether their adaptive contribution was beneficial or damaging in the new environment, or whether it affected social factors such as sexual selection.
--Pagani et al 2012
You merely cited a piece that essentially repeats what I told your uneducated monkey ass about the inheriting of genes under selection as is (genes serving as "gene flow" indicators), and comes down to a matter of whether said selection is deleterious or advantageous, douchebag.
The piece you are citing says absolutely nothing about "weeding out"; those are your dumb words, not the authors.
Nor did they even say a damn thing about genes that "typically occur as packages" or "to test which of the genes that typically occur as ''packages'', have survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment"; again, those are your words. You are an illiterate dickhead par excellence, LOL.
Rather, the authors "looked" for "such outlier regions of admixture"...and by "such", they are referring to regions under examination, whose divergence patterns may speak to a possible "biological function" of the sequence in question, be it potentially positive or negative. This is how the SlC24A5 allele stood out to the authors, hence leading them to do this, in their own words, as cited in my first post in this thread:
Given that SLC24A5 is one of the most highly differentiated genes between African and European populations, we then looked for other highly differentiated genes among the outlier windows, but found none
And
To further investigate the effect of admixture on the **genetic landscape of skin pigmentation** in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; however, none were found in our outlier regions.
quote:
To protect your previous lies, you're now lying like the pathologically lying dog that you are. Talk about being knee deep in your own excretions.
There is only one liar--and a rather dumb one at that--in our exchange, and it is not me, I can assure you that.
quote:Sure. Let me guess, UFOs exist and you've just had telepathic contact with Sasquatch. Lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of SLC24A5. LMAO!
You are the one who claimed to be reading my mind, and now you are accusing me of telepathy. You are one screwed up sick puppy. It therefore follows that you should know more about imaginary worlds of UFOs and extraterrestrials than I do.
Secondly, you are asking me to explain an irrelevant citation that you broached, but too dumb to understand on your own. The Sri Lankan case is neither a substitute nor analogous to the Ethiopian case, douchebag.
The only remotely relevant thing your Sri Lankan case can possibly have on our exchange, is one that is advantageous to me, and detrimental to your dumb monkey ass. The SLC24A5 marker served as a weaker marker in differentiating the Sri Lankan and Europeans, in contrast to the SLC45A2. That's what that citation was speaking to.
Don't fault me because you were blessed with brainlessness and not being able to read your own citations. Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Where do I say such a thing, moron?
Your lying ass was caught red handed making the retarded statement that derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment, right here:
To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection. --The Explorer
Troll, if skin pigmentation was the ’’likely phenotypic candidate of this selection’’, explain how SLC24A5 was selected for not just in equatorial Africa, but, of all places, the highly UV radiated highlands of Ethiopia! Obviously your microcephalic head is not in the know when it comes to comprehending the earth shatteringly stupid excrements that ooze down the sphincter you call your mouth!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: I don't have to explain crap for your idiotic tales; that's your job
LMAO @ this cowering puppy. You can run but you can't hide. If not negative selection, explain why no other skin pigmentation genes were found in the Ethiopian population, other than SLC25A5, even though the presence of Syria affinity having haplotypes and Saudi lactose alleles point to their ancient presence.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The piece you are citing says absolutely nothing about "weeding out"; those are your dumb words, not the authors.
Of course it does. Apparently your microcephalic head just cannot grasp the simple idea that SLC45A2 and other genes are a part of the package they tested for, but came up short. In a section of their paper titled ''selection after admixture'', how is their focused effort to elucidate the environment-linked demise of certain genes not linked to their stated inability to find such genes, a couple of sentences later? Gawd DAMN you're dumb!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Nor did they even say a damn thing about genes that "typically occur as packages" or "to test which of the genes that typically occur as ''packages'', have survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment";
I can always tell when it is dawning on you that you’re getting thrashed around the forum. It’s typically when your lies go from subtle to explicit to not even making sense. You’re such a sh!t stained troll that you’re taking my paraphrased description of what they were doing, and then arguing about whether the authors explicitly said they were doing that in those words. Filthy lying ass pig! Fix up that sick issue ridden narcissistic personality of yours, will ya? You have psychological issues.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Rather, the authors "looked" for "such outlier regions of admixture"
Speaking of which, explain why the non Ethio- Semitic/Cushitic speaking Ethiopians tested positive for the SLC24A5 gene in ways that are consistent with their respective size of the Syrian affinity having non-African haplotypes, if Ethiopian SLC24A5 is to be divorced from the said admixture event.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: they are referring to regions under examination, whose divergence patterns may speak to a possible "biological function" of the sequence in question, be it potentially positive or negative.
Stop lying, pig. They were investigating divergence patters which speak to admixture. The authors were looking for genes that experienced selection **after admixture** as indicated by the title of that segment of their paper. You still have a cry baby emotion based struggle to come to grips with this basic fact, don’t you?
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The only remotely relevant thing your Sri Lankan case can possibly have on our exchange, is one that is advantageous to me
Two faced snake. Your inability to address what I’m shoving in your face for the second time speaks louder than your lying ass see-through professed unperturbedness. For the third time, lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of this gene.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Your lying ass was caught red handed making the retarded statement that derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment, right here:
To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection. --The Explorer
As if you were not punished enough by a stunted brain, you are now a certified blind dingbat. Where does it say "tropical" in what you just quoted, or even this: "derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment"; where? And you accuse me of doing something retarded, retarded monkey.
Stop the futile attempts at reading or thinking, foolish monkey. Neither suits you.
quote:Troll, if skin pigmentation was the ’’likely phenotypic candidate of this selection’’
numbskull, what you are quoting [incompletely] there, is just me telling you what the paper actually notes about the SLC24A5 allele, as a contrast to your dumb monkey ass' fairy tale "biological function". Correcting you--as this case shows superbly--is like adding fuel to gasoline. Instead of getting you educated, you get even more fat-ass crazy and out of control, LOL, because your stunted skull just cannot take accumulative inflow of real world information.
quote: If not negative selection, explain why no other skin pigmentation genes were found in the Ethiopian population
I thought I already clued in your stupid monkey ass that if there were no other skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians, then they would not have any pigmentation. That's a no-brainer. There is just no way you have the smarts to even go to the toilet on your own or wear cloths on your own. FYI: This is the last time I'm telling you this; so get a care-taker who can read for you, moron.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The piece you are citing says absolutely nothing about "weeding out"; those are your dumb words, not the authors.
Of course it does.
Because your block skull imagined it. That makes sense! LOL
quote: Apparently your microcephalic head just cannot grasp the simple idea that SLC45A2 and other genes are a part of the package they tested for, but came up short.
Indeed, I cannot grasp a simple stupid idea borne out of the crazy imagination of a complete lunatic.
numbnut, they would neither be "looking for" nor applying Z-scores for a [fictitious] "package of genes" that "SlC24A5 (i.e. the correct gene; you can't even get the gene right) is part of" (your stupid words of course), because they would have gotten right to the "package of genes, that SLC24A5 is a part of" (your words, not the papers), as they would have known exactly where such a [silly fictitious] "package" would have been. Now let your care-taker spoon-feed you with reading, and learn, douchebag:
To look for such outlier regions of admixture in Ethiopian populations (Semitic and Cushitic) where the estimated proportions of African and non-African ancestries were roughly equal, we listed those regions showing an excess or a deficit (see Material and Methods) of non-African haplotypes (Table S4). Of the fourteen 40-SNP windows observed with a Z-score > 2, we noted one that contained SLC24A5 (MIM 113750). This gene is a major contributor to the pigmentation differences between Africans and Europeans and a strong candidate for positive selection in Europe.44,45 Given that SLC24A5 is one of the most highly differentiated genes between African and European populations,10,46 we then looked for other highly differentiated genes10 among the outlier windows, but found none. We also checked whether the 24 large Z-score windows reported in Table S4 showed enrichment for regions with extreme distances between the African and non-African clouds. After ranking all the 40-SNP windows by the distance between the African and European cloud centers divided by the SD of the European cloud around its center, none of the large Z-score windows were present within the top 1%. We therefore speculate that the excess of non-African SLC24A5 haplotypes must be linked to the biological function of that gene.
Instead, they would get right to doing this, as the authors did, only after having identified SLC24A5 locus as one suggestive of a "biological function" in the Ethiopian samples:
To further investigate [meaning, this was not the primary focus of the tests] the effect of admixture on the **genetic landscape of skin pigmentation** in Ethiopia, we also looked at (notice it's not "looked for", douchebag) other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; however, none were found in our outlier regions.
You should not be trying to learn genetics, which you don't even bother doing anyway; rather, you should be trying to catch up on reading 101, LOL.
quote:I can always tell when it is dawning on you that you’re getting thrashed around the forum.
Ooh, I'm shaking in my boots, because the fuckhead queen is "thrashing" me "around"...with utterly stupid zealotry crap.
quote: Fix up that sick issue ridden narcissistic personality of yours, will ya? You have psychological issues.
I know that you cannot possibly "fix up" your stunted thick skull--that ship has sailed; how about getting tampons to help "fix up" your PMS emotional attacks, fuckhead queen?
quote:Speaking of which, explain why the non Ethio- Semitic/Cushitic speaking Ethiopians tested positive for the SLC24A5 gene in ways that are consistent with their respective size of the Syrian affinity having non-African haplotypes, if Ethiopian SLC24A5 is to be divorced from the said admixture event.
dumbass chump, they have different bio-histories [while related]. How did you not get that? Well, you are dickheaded servant after all.
quote:Stop lying, pig. They were investigating divergence patters which speak to admixture. The authors were looking for genes that experienced selection **after admixture** as indicated by the title of that segment of their paper.
First you say they were "investigating patterns which speak to admixture", then you say they were "looking for" genes that "experienced selection" supposedly "after admixture". You are all over the place, and cannot make up your silly monkey mind up about what the primary goal was, just like a headless chicken hopping about everywhere. If this alone does not speak to that absent mind of your's, what else will?
Fact of the matter is, as your dumb monkey ass was told, the authors had already decided upon which sequences to treat "African" and "non-African", henceforth why the study was fucked up. So they could not have been investigating "admixture", dumb servant. What about "selection"? Yes, they were trying to discern whether elements of their test sequences via distribution were suggestive of selection. The problem the authors faced, as your fat monkey ass was told, is:
SLC24A5 variant in the Ethiopian groups was not accompanied by other "skin pigmentation" gene alleles whose distribution typically accompany that of SLC24A5 in "Europeans" and "west Asians".
The phenotypic trait identified for the SLC24A5 variant argues against "selection" of the variant in an equatorial region, but the frequency of the variant suggests otherwise in Ethiopians. Thus the authors were compelled to reckon that "social factors" such as "sexual selection" may explain the distribution of SLC24A5 in Ethiopians. The problem with that reckoning has already been specified in my first post in this thread, but I won't hold my breath for you to read or understand it, and so, it is there for those with common sense and a reading skill of an educated adult.
quote:You still have a cry baby emotion based struggle to come to grips with this basic fact, don’t you?
The answer is of course a resounding "no", but you clearly do. This very post of yours is proof of it in itself.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The only remotely relevant thing your Sri Lankan case can possibly have on our exchange, is one that is advantageous to me
Two faced snake. Your inability to address what I’m shoving in your face for the second time speaks louder than your lying ass see-through professed unperturbedness. For the third time, lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of this gene.
Go ahead and ask many more times, the answer doesn't change, as was stated the last time you asked. Your reference to the Sri Lankan case is not only an irrelevant space waster, but also ironically, advantageous to me while damning to you, fuckhead queen. And guess what? This will be the last time I remind your numbskull of that too. Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Where does it say "tropical" in what you just quoted
Trolling again. That your dumbass didn’t specifically mention ‘’tropical’’ doesn’t mean that I can’t hold it against you that your dumbass needed to be reminded of the no-brainer fact that the Ethiopian environment wherein such a selection would have taken place, is climatically tropical.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: what you are quoting [incompletely] there, is just me telling you what the paper actually notes about the SLC24A5 allele
Trolling again. The paper doesn't say that the authors identify ''skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection''. It's your interpretation of what they're saying, and, as such, it was your dumbass who made the retarded claim that light skin was selected for in a region which, apparently unbeknownst to your dumb ass, is equatorial.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: I thought I already clued in your stupid monkey ass that if there were no other skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians
You’re such a phuckin’ low IQ, dumbass, charlatan. Is your bum ass saying that the Ethiopian sample implicated here wouldn’t have had additional skin pigmentation genes, had, let’s say, derived SLC45A2 been found in them? Get to work, fraud:
If not negative selection, explain why no other skin pigmentation genes were found in the Ethiopian population --Swenet
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: the correct gene; you can't even get the gene right
Hey, it’s not my fault you’re bewildered about the fact that they tested for SLC45A2 and came up short. That you don’t know this is further evidence that you’re way out of your league here.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: they would neither be "looking for" nor applying Z-scores
LMAO. **Where** did they ''apply Z-scores’’ when they attempted to track down the other skin pigmentation genes? You’re such a phuckin’ crackhead. Judging by past discussions where you kept running away from your blunders, you will now stop responding to this, no matter how many times I press you to back this piece of sh!t claim up.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: notice it's not "looked for", douchebag
This, too, shows how patently stupid you are. As a matter of fact, I’m beginning to suspect that you have the reading comprehension of Ray Charles. Of course they ’’looked at’’ the literature first to identify which genes they should be looking ‘’for’’ in the Ethiopian populations. Only a brainless troll such as yourself would use it against another poster that the authors state that they consulted the literature.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: dumbass chump, they have different bio-histories
Your spacey attempt to wilfully wish these facts away with some random mumbo jumbo blank no-brainer invocation of ’’differing bio-histories’’ is at odds with the fact that I’ve just told your dumbass that the levels of derived SLC24A5 in Ethiopia match the amount of Syria affinity having haplotypes in the respective local populations.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: the authors had already decided upon which sequences to treat "African" and "non-African", henceforth why the study was fucked up.
Ah, let me guess, this is where your lie comes in that the discernment of African vs non-African was ’’mostly left to the imagination of the reader’’, right? Your dogmatic troll inclinations are obstructing your bias stricken eyeballs from seeing the readily observable fact that Pagani et al’s methods are vindicated by the fact that the Omotic speakers, whose African haplotypes differ from other Ethiopians only in terms of component proportion (i.e. not in terms of component type), yet, they had little trouble coming out as biologically almost exclusively African. Of course, their comparatively low level of SLC24A5, their comparatively lower amount of non-African uniparentals, their comparatively lower amount of Ethio-Semitic loanwords and comparatively larger distance from the ancient urban localities that would have attracted populations with these Syrian affinity having haplotypes you're lamenting (but can't do sh!t about), have nothing to do with each other; it’s all just a coincidental happenstance that these independent phenomena happen to date to 3kya and come together to form a coherent multi-disciplinary case.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Go ahead and ask many more times, the answer doesn't change
Of course it won’t, and the reason is none other than the fact that you can’t answer it without inserting girly giggle accompanied unsubstantiated claims that the Sri Lankan skin pigmentation state of affairs bolsters your non-existent case! For the fourth time it’s observed that you’re scared sh!tless to address what is being shoved in your face, with more than tail between legs amygdala triggered non-replies:
Lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of this gene. --Swenet
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
@The Explorer I used to think you had an intellect and that you had a real contribution to make in the re-writing of African history...after reading your 'monkey' taunts below, I'm not so sure.
quote: Your retard monkey ass shows just how much of a non-existent critical thinking ability you have with each intellectually-dud post you address to me.
quote: As I have said, only retards who are nearly as fuckheaded as your monkey ass is, are compelled to spinelessly beg a very sick specimen like you to respond to me, because they lack the basic ability to think for themselves, and address me on their own.
quote: I thought I already clued in your stupid monkey ass that if there were no other skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians
How scummy.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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Trolling again. That your dumbass didn’t specifically mention ‘’tropical’’ doesn’t mean that I can’t hold it against you
A plain text stumped your monkey ass, and you think some one else is dumb, LOL. A stupid donkey can out-read you. And no, imaginary things can't be held against real world things.
quote:Trolling again. The paper doesn't say that the authors identify ''skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection''. It's your interpretation of what they're saying
And the right interpretation, in contrast to your numbskull fairy tale. Get your care-taker, there is some reading to do:
"Of the fourteen 40-SNP windows observed with a Z-score > 2, we noted one that contained SLC24A5 (MIM 113750). This gene is a major contributor to the pigmentation differences between Africans and Europeans and a strong candidate for positive selection in Europe.4"
"To further investigate the effect of admixture on the **genetic landscape of skin pigmentation** in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; however, none were found in our outlier regions."
"SLC24A5 was within the top 5% of selection signals, whereas the gene was not detected as an outlier in the other groups of Ethiopians. The unusual history of this gene was further supported by the presence of the derived A allele of the SNP rs1834640, associated with the light skin pigmentation of Europeans and western Asians..."
"This putative migration from the Levant to Ethiopia, which is also supported by linguistic evidence, may have carried the derived western Eurasian allele of SLC24A5, which is associated with light skin pigmentation."
The paper identifies skin pigmentation as phenotypic trait of the allele, not once but several times over. This has not deterred your thick monkey skull from saying that it's just my interpretation, just so your fairy tale unspecified "biological function" can have a companion. You are such a blank-headed fuckhead whore.
quote:Hey, it’s not my fault you’re bewildered about the fact that they tested for SLC45A2 and came up short. That you don’t know this is further evidence that you’re way out of your league here.
The section cited mentions nothing about SLC45A2 that you are apparently confusing with SLC24A5 (aka the subject of that section in the real world). You have gone bananas. Get it? stupid monkey...gone bananas, LOL.
quote:LMAO. **Where** did they ''apply Z-scores’’ when they attempted to track down the other skin pigmentation genes?
You confuse "look for" with "Z-scores", just because they happened to be mentioned in the same sentence. Of course, this is you staying true to form, as you confused other vastly different concepts on so many occasions. Here's the point: Z-scores were not applied to either "investigate admixture" or "to test which of the genes that typically occur as ''packages'', have survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment"; those moronic ideas come from your dumb monkey ass. The scoring was used to isolate regions that may be suggestive of either a positive [and thereof, a "biological function"] or negative selection. If one were just working with "genes that typically occur as a package" just to see "which survived in Ethiopia's tropical environment", then one simply needed to go straight to the location (which should already be known) of that "package", of which SLC24A5 is supposedly "a part" (your words), and look at the content. One would not need to "look for" the "package", my dumb servant.
quote: Only a brainless troll such as yourself would use it against another poster that the authors state that they consulted the literature.
I'd have to take it that a brainless troll is vastly smarter than a brainless fairy-tale telling monkey (you). Where do you see, ’’looked at’’ the literature first to identify which genes they should be looking ‘’for’’" in this:
To further investigate the effect of admixture on the **genetic landscape of skin pigmentation** in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; however, none were found in our outlier regions.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: dumbass chump, they have different bio-histories
Your spacey attempt to wilfully wish these facts away with some random mumbo jumbo blank no-brainer invocation of ’’differing bio-histories’’
You needed to be fed like a helpless baby with this "no-brainer", because apparently, you are not equipped with a brain to figure out on your own, that the differences stem from their different bio-histories; else you would not have asked that fuckheaded question.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: the authors had already decided upon which sequences to treat "African" and "non-African", henceforth why the study was fucked up.
Ah, let me guess
That's just what you do: guessing. If you used as much effort at actually reading and learning as you do at being incredibly stupid when not guessing imaginary things, then you'd get somewhere--not mindless drivels in circles. Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: @The Explorer I used to think you had an intellect and that you had a real contribution to make in the re-writing of African history
These would be the very things that you lack: an intellect, or any real contribution to make. Funny how that works out. It's called projecting; check with a psychiatrist.
I can produce a long list of substance I bring here. How about you? Where's your real contribution, besides being a wimp and an unimportant chatroom cheerleader?
PS: In case you didn't get the memo, your opinion is worthless. On the other hand, if you want to discuss facts, I'll be glad to indulge you.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Lol interesting thread. While the OP creator sits back...
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I was thinking do I want to read 75 pages but I just skimmed it over and it's only about 20 or so pages of texts
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa 2013
excerpts
We then applied our method for dating multiple admixture events to the eastern African populationsin these data (Supplementary Figure 24-38). Pagani et al. [2012] previously dated the earliest admixture events in Ethiopia to around 3,000 years ago, but with considerable variation between populations. We find evidence for multiple episodes of population mixture in eastern Africa; most populations have evidence for an early admixture event that we date to around 80-110 generations (2,400-3,300 years) ago (Figure 4). As insouthern Africa, the west Eurasian ancestry is present in the early admixture event. The dates we estimatein eastern Africa are almost uniformly older than the dates we estimate in southern Africa (Figure 4). One potential concern regarding this conclusion is that the southern and eastern African populations displayed in Figure 4 were genotyped on different genotyping arrays; however, this pattern remains when using onlypopulations typed on the same array (Supplementary Figure 39).
Back-to-Africa gene flow in eastern Africa. A major open question concerns the initial sourceof the west Eurasian ancestry in eastern Africa. The estimated mean time of gene flow in eastern Africa isaround 3,000 years ago, and the amount of gene flow must have been quite extensive, as the west Eurasianancestry proportions reach 40-50% in some Ethiopian populations (Table 1 and Pagani et al. [2012]). Archaeological records from this region are sparse, so Pagani et al. [2012] speculate that this admixture is related to the Biblical account of the Kingdom of Sheba. However, archaeological evidence is not completely absent. During this time period, architecture in the Ethiopian culture of D’mt has an “unmistakable South Arabian appearance in many details” [Munro-Hay, 1991], though there is some debate as to whether these patterns can be attributed to large movements of people versus elite-driven cultural practices [Mitchell, 2005;Munro-Hay, 1991]. Additionally, linguistic evidence suggests that this time period was when Ethiosemitic languages were introduced to Africa, presumably from southern Arabia [Kitchen et al., 2009]. It is perhaps not a coincidence that the highest levels of west Eurasian ancestry in eastern Africa are found in the Amharaand Tygray, who speak Ethiosemitic languages and live in what was previously the territory of D’mt andthe later kingdom of Aksum.The hypothesis that west Eurasian ancestry entered eastern Africa through Arabia must be reconciled. with the observation that the best modern proxies for this ancestry are often found in southern Europerather than the Middle East (Supplementary Table 4). This observation can be interpreted in the context of ancient DNA work in Europe, which has shown that, approximately 5,000 years ago, people genetically closely related to modern southern Europeans were present as far north as Scandinavia [Keller et al., 2012;Skoglund et al., 2012]. We thus find it plausible that the people living in the Middle East today are not representative of the people who were living the Middle East 3,000 years ago. Indeed, even in historical times,there have been extensive population movements from and to the Middle East [Davies, 1997; Kennedy, 2008].West Eurasian ancestry in southern Africa. A second question is: which population or populations introduced west Eurasian ancestry into southern Africa? The best genetic proxy for this ancestry that we have found is the west Eurasian ancestry in eastern Africa (Figure 5). The most parsimonious explanation for this observation is that west Eurasian ancestry entered southern Africa indirectly via eastern Africa (though the alternative scenario of direct contact with an unsampled west Eurasian populationcannot be formally excluded; however, there is no archaeological, historical, or linguistic evidence of suchcontact). The relevant eastern African population may no longer exist. However, such a migration has beensuggested based on shared Y chromosome haplotypes [Cruciani et al., 2002; Henn et al., 2008] and sharedalleles/haplotypes associated with lactase-persistence [Coelho et al., 2009; Schlebusch et al., 2012] between the two regions. Furthermore, based on a synthesis of archaeological, genetic, climatological and linguistic data Güldemann [2008] hypothesized that the Khoe-Kwadi languages in southern Africa were brought to th eregion by immigrating pastoralists from eastern Africa. Our observation of elevated west Eurasian ancestry in Khoe-Kwadi groups in general (Table 1) is consistent with this hypothesis.Alternative historical scenarios. We note that we have interpreted admixture signals in terms of large-scale movements of people. An alternative frame for interpreting these results might instead proposean isolation-by-distance model in which populations primarily remain in a single location but individuals choose mates from within some relatively small radius. In principle, this sort of model could introduce west Eurasian ancestry into southern Africa via a “diffusion-like” process. Two observations argue against this possibility. First, the gene flow we observe is asymmetric: while some eastern African populations haveup to 50% west Eurasian ancestry, levels of sub-Saharan African ancestry in the Middle East and Europeare considerably lower than this (maximum of 15% [Moorjani et al., 2011]) and do not appear to consist of ancestry related to the Khoisan. Second, the signal of west Eurasian ancestry is present in southern Africa but absent from central Africa, despite the fact that central Africa is geographically closer to the putative source of the ancestry.These geographically-specific and asymmetric dispersal patterns are mostparsimoniously explained by migration from west Eurasia into eastern Africa, and then from eastern tosouthern Africa.
Conclusions.
{b]Based on these analyses, we can propose a model for the spread of west Eurasian ancestry insouthern and eastern Africa as follows: first, a large-scale movement of people from west Eurasia into Ethiopiaaround 3,000 years ago (perhaps from southern Arabia and associated with the D’mt kingdom and the arrivalof Ethiosemitic languages) resulted in the dispersal of west Eurasian ancestry throughout eastern Africa.This was then followed by a migration of an admixed population (perhaps pastoralists related to speakers of Khoe-Kwadi languages) from eastern Africa to southern Africa, with admixture occurring approximately1,500 years ago.[/b] Advances in genotyping DNA from archaeological samples may allow aspects of this modelto be directly tested
Table 1: Estimates of the proportion of west Eurasian ancestry in southern and easternAfrican populations. We estimated the percentage of west Eurasian ancestry in each southernand eastern African population as well as the Mandenka from western Africa (Methods). Shown arethese estimates for each population. Populations are sorted according to the estimated proportionof west Eurasian ancestry, and rows of southern African populations are shaded. Standard errorson all estimates ranged from 0.3% to 1.1%, with an average of 0.7
Table 2: Estimates of the proportion of Khoisan, putative eastern African, and putativeBantu-related ancestry in southern African populations, ordered by the amount ofputative eastern African ancestry. The Nama were excluded from this analysis because oftheir recent European ancestry. Additionally shown is the proportion of west Eurasian ancestryin each population as estimated by the linear model (these proportions are slightly different fromthose in Table 1). *The admixture proportions of the Ju|hoan North were fixed in this analysis
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posted
From lioness' extract above, the authors insist--even though genetic evidence is noticeably against it--that:
The hypothesis that west Eurasian ancestry entered eastern Africa through Arabia must be reconciled.
This was after having invoked the south Arabian connection, and having selectively applied Stuart Munro-Hay's work. In other words, the theory must be upheld at any cost, regardless of what evidence actually points to, by making evidence fit the theory rather than the theory fit evidence. Simply put: Come up with a theory first, and then look around for evidence to fit it. If that does not smell of dogmatism, what then will.
Like other ideologues, they try to placate weak genetic evidence for their theories by claiming--without concrete substantiation of wholesale population replacement--that resident populations of the "Middle East" are not representative of what would have been there, supposedly 3ky ago.
From blog entry, "What Ethiopian Genetic Diversity—Really—Reveals!", May 15, 2013:
While on the subject of suspiciously tenuous findings by the authors (Pagani et al. 2012), it's worth noting that the introduction—for which the authors insinuate a single-entry—of the so-called "non-African" gene pool of Ethiopian groups is purported to have taken place some 3ky ago; this interestingly coincides with the date generally attributed to the historic Sabean kingdom of southern Arabia; in fact, in a thinly veiled manner, the authors even make a reference to a study (Kitchen et. al. 2009), so as to make it a point that their dates firmly match that of said study:
The estimated time (3 kya) and the geographic origin (the Levant) of the gene flow into Ethiopia are consistent with both the model of Early Bronze Age origins of Semitic languages and the reported age estimate (2.8 kya) of the Ethio-Semitic language group. They are also consistent with the legend of Makeda, the Queen of Sheba. According to the version recorded in the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast (a traditional Ethiopian book on the origins of the kings), this influential Ethiopian queen (who, according to Hansberry, reigned between 1005 and 955 BCE) visited King Solomon—ruler, in biblical tradition, of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah—bringing back, in addition to important trading links, a son.
The authors of course, conveniently seize on legends of the Kebra Nagast, with little regard to what archaeology has to say, because doing so seems to fit into the narrative they want to build. There is a "dark age" period in Ethiopian archaeological record, between the Da'amat complex—a contemporary of the noted Sabean complex—and the Aksumite complex:
A kingdom called D`MT (perhaps to be read Da`mot or Di`amat) is attested in Ethiopian inscriptions at this early date, and, though the period between this and the development of Aksum around the beginning of the Christian era is an Ethiopian `Dark Age' for us at present, it may be surmised that the D`MT monarchy and its successors, and other Ethiopian chiefdoms, continued something of the same *`Ethio-Sabaean'* civilisation until eventually subordinated by Aksum.
"A certain linguistic and religious continuity may be observed between the two periods, though many features of Aksumite civilisation differ considerably from the earlier material." [1]
The Dark period (from archaeological standpoint) between the demise of D'MT complex and the rise of the Aksumite complex gave way to the introduction of Christianity, which would become a regular feature of the Aksumite complex. It is little wonder then, that legends would subsequently develop, long after the demise of the Aksumite complex, which would capitalize on Abrahamic belief, centered on the person of King Solomon and Makeda, i.e. Queen of Sheba, as part of the Kebra Nagast narrative. As such, just as observed elsewhere (click on the link), the narrative of Kebra Nagast seems to proceed from a mythologized period to a more realistic historic era...
The origins of these legends hark back to some unknown time after the conversion of the kingdom to Christianity in the reign of king Ezana of Aksum in the fourth century AD, or in some cases perhaps to an even earlier period when some Jewish traditions had entered the country.
Such legends had their political use in providing pedigrees for national institutions. It was believed in later times that the state offices from the king downwards were descended from the company which had brought the Ark to Aksum from Jerusalem (Budge 1922: 61). **Doubtless the Christian priests, searching for a longer pedigree for their religion to impress pagans and unbelievers, would have been interested in developing these tales which connected Ethiopia with Solomon and Sheba.**
The Ethiopian kings themselves, **anxious to acquire the prestige of ancient** and **venerable dynastic ancestors**, could **scarcely have hoped for a more august couple as their reputed progenitors**. Even in the official Ethiopian Constitution, up to the time of the end of the reign of emperor Haile Selassie, the dynasty was held to have descended directly from Solomon and the queen of Sheba through their mythical son, the emperor Menelik I.
The real events in Ethiopia's history before the present two millenia are **lost in the mists of antiquity**, but valiant attempts were made by Ethiopian chroniclers to fill in the immense gap between the reign of Menelik I and the time of the kings of Aksum. The king lists they developed (all those now surviving are of comparatively recent date), name a long line of rulers, covering the whole span from Menelik through the Aksumite period and on to the later Zagwé and `Solomonic' dynasties (Conti Rossini 1909). There is little point in reciting the majority of these names, but some of the most important of the reputed successors of Menelik I are worth noting for their importance in Ethiopian tradition.
With regards to Menelik I, legend says of him...
Tradition says that he was the son of king Solomon of Israel and the queen of Sheba conceived during the queen's famous visit to Jerusalem. Although no information survives in the legends about the ancient Aksumite rulers whoreally built the palaces and erected the giant stone obelisks or stelae which still stand in several places around the town, these monuments are locally attributed in many instances to Menelik or to Makeda, the queen of Sheba or queen of Azab (the South). Such legends are still a living force at Aksum today; for example, the mansion recently excavated in the district of Dungur, west of Aksum, has immediately been absorbed into local legends as the `palace of the queen of Sheba'. [1]
This phenomenon is not uncommon on the African continent; many groups, be they Muslims, Jews or Christians, tend to build legends around eponymous ancestors which take their community's lineage back to the homelands of these ancestors. These legends, as the notes above indicate, are generally applied to give ruling circles—more than anyone else—legitimacy of power, as well as the ability to macro-manage their societies through prestige bestowed upon religion. The authors of the present genetic study (Pagani et al.) seem to be oblivious of intricacies of this nature.
While there have been long contacts across the Red Sea, it is mainly between 8th Century and 5th century B.C. that we begin to see visible south Arabian influence in the region, in the form inscription, architecture and so forth. As Stuart Munro-Hay put it,...
some sort of contact, apparently quite close, seems to have been maintained between Ethiopia and South Arabia. This developed to such an extent that in not a few places in Ethiopia the remains of certain mainly religious or funerary installations, some of major importance, with an unmistakeable South Arabian appearance in many details, have been excavated. Among the sites are Hawelti-Melazo, near Aksum (de Contenson 1961ii), the famous temple and other buildings and tombs at Yeha (Anfray 1973ii), the early levels at Matara (Anfray 1967), and the sites at Seglamien (Ricci and Fattovich 1984-6), Addi Galamo, Feqya, Addi Grameten and Kaskase, to name only the better-known ones. Fattovich (1989: 4-5) comments on many of these and has been able to attribute some ninety sites altogether to the pre-Aksumite period...
Inscriptions found at some of these sites include the names of persons bearing the traditional South Arabian title of mukarrib, apparently indicating a ruler with something of a priest-king status, not otherwise known in Ethiopia (Caquot and Drewes 1955). Others have the title of king, mlkn (Schneider 1961; 1973). Evidently the pre-Aksumite Sabaean-influenced cultural province did not consist merely of a few briefly-occupied staging posts, but was a wide-spread and well-established phenomenon.
Having acknowledged the extent of Sabean influence, Munro-Hay cautioned:
Until relatively recently South Arabian artefacts found in Ethiopia were interpreted as the material signs left behind by a superior colonial occupation force, with political supremacy over the indigenes — an interpretation still maintained by Michels (1988).But further study has now suggested that very likely, by the time the inscriptions were produced, the majority of the material in fact represented the civilisation of the Ethiopians themselves.Nevertheless, a certain amount of contact with South Arabia is very apparent, and had resulted in the adoption of a number of cultural traits (Schneider 1973; 1976).
The picture that emerges, based on archaeology, is one wherein the late early-Holocene urbanization process of the African Horn was accompanied by cultural interaction—such as trade—with the relatively more established complexes to the north, on the African continent itself (see: Urbanization in the African Horn was the outcome of autochthonous social processes, or was it?, for example). This interaction may well have aided the growth of Ethiopian urbanization, to extent whereupon state formation in the Ethiopian highlands was made possible, and with it, the capacity of Ethiopia's forebears to become worthy trade partners in their own right, i.e. of their counterparts both to their north and across the Red Sea. However, the subsequent rise to regional prominence of the Sabean complex in southern Arabia marked a new chapter in Ethiopian history.
From Fattovich, 2002 [2]:
The late second and early first millennia BC were marked by the decline of Egyptian power, and the rise and expansion of the kingdom of Kush in Nubia, and the kingdoms in southwest Arabia. Trade along the Red Sea was under the control of the South Arabians, but it is possible , however, that the Phoenicians sporadically visited the Horn (Doe 1971; Adams 1977; Groom 1981; Liverani 1988). In the mid-first millennium BC, the south Arabian commercial expansion was at its peak under the control of the kingdom of Saba. At this time, the pre-Aksumite kingdom of Da’amat was surely an important partner of Saba…
In the early first millennium BC, the South Arabians penetrated in the western Tigrean plateau, most likely to get a direct access to the resources of the western lowlands, particularly ivory. Quite soon the region was included in the area of political and commercial influence of the kingdom of Saba. That contacts with the Sabeans gave rise to the local kingdom of Da’amat. An urban society, reflecting the south Arabian pattern, appeared on the plateau. Yeha become a very important ceremonial center and the possible residence of the kings. The agricultural production to sustain the new state was improved by the use of plough. The need to control the routes to the Red Sea caused the eastwards territorial expansion of the kingdom. Kaskase became another important ceremonial centre. An urban settlement arose at Matara.
In the late first millennium BC, after the decline of the kingdom of Saba in southern Arabia, the kingdom of Da’amat collapsed. The plateau was probably divided into petty kingdoms
The use of Sabean language as a possible trade language, for example, would have a lasting impact on the evolution of Ethio-Semitic language in a certain manner, which was already described briefly in earlier passages. This is not to say that Ethio-Semitic itself comes from southern Arabia, but just that such a trade language would have had an impact on how Ethio-Semitic would evolve; for instance, from Stuart Munro-Hay, one also gets an impression of this, i.e. existence of Ethio-Semitic language prior to contact with the Sabean complex before some 3ky ago:
Semiticized Agaw peoples are thought to have migrated from south-eastern Eritrea possibly as early as 2000 BC, bringing their `proto-Ethiopic' language, ancestor of Ge`ez and the other Ethiopian Semitic languages, with them; and these and other groups **had already developed specific cultural and linguistic identities** by the time any Sabaean influences arrived. [1]
The implied message here, is that the Agaw people of Ethiopia were already "Semiticized" by 2000 BC, long before the appearance of the south Arabian complex in history. At this time however, we are informed that this would have been a proto-Ethiopic ancestor of modern Ethio-Semitic languages. Note that the "Semiticized" (acculturated) Agaw and other Ethiopian groups "had already developed specific cultural and linguistic identities by the time any Sabean influences arrived."
Elsewhere:
The inscriptions dating from this period [Sabean-Ethiopian contact] in Ethiopia are apparently written in two languages, pure Sabaean and another language with certain aspects found later in Ge`ez (Schneider 1976). All the royal inscriptions are in this second, presumably Ethiopian, language. A number of different tribes and families seem to be mentioned by the inscriptions of this period, but there is no evidence to show whether any of these groups lasted into the Aksumite period.[1]
One of the two aforementioned languages was very likely serving as a trade language and possibly for administrative purposes, which from a logical standpoint, would have been the "pure Sabean" noted above; the other language, would have been for the benefit of the locals, so that the message which the ruling circles wanted to get across the public, could be heard widely. This latter language, would have desirably been a language that is more widely accessible to the public than the former, and hence, would have been a local "Ethiopian language", as indicated above. This local language happened to already have "aspects" that would later on be a feature of Ge'ez, which happens to be an Ethio-Semitic language. Remember, this was during the time of Ethio-Sabean contact!
Only the word YG`DYN, man of Yeg`az, might hint that the Ge`ez or Agazyan tribe was established so early, though the particular inscription which mentions it is written in the South Arabian rather than the Ethiopian language (Schneider 1961). Some of the other apparently tribal names also occur in both groups of inscriptions. The usual way of referring to someone in the inscriptions is `N. of the family N. of the tribe N.', possibly also reflected later by the Aksumite `Bisi'-title; `king N. man of the tribe/clan (?) N.' (Ch. 7: 5). [1]
...again, speaking to the already established presence of Ethiopic language with Semitic attributes, prior to contact with the Sabean complex. Furthermore:
Indeed, it may be that the Sabaeans were able to establish themselves in Ethiopia in the first place because both their civilisation and that of mid-1st millenium Ethiopia already had something in common; it has been suggested that earlier migrations or contacts might have taken place, leaving a kind of cultural sympathy between the two areas which allowed the later contact to flourish easily.[1]
Ethio-Semitic language, having been available prior to any contact with the Sabean complex, would fit into this scenario of "something in common".
As noted earlier, south Arabian impact on Ethiopian gene pool would have been limited, and primarily focused in administrative outposts, where Sabean migrants communities would have been more visible, during the Ethio-Sabean contact. So, the south Arabian footprint is nowhere near as considerable as proponents of a south Arabian origin for Ethio-Semitic would like it to be, so as to bolster their theory. As one observation has it, the possible role south Arabian migrants would have served during this time,...
It appears that there were undoubtedly some South Arabian immigrants in Ethiopia in the mid-first millenium BC, but there is (unless the interpretation of Michels is accepted) no sure indication that they were politically dominant.
The sites chosen by them may be related to their relative ease of access to the Red Sea coast. Arthur Irvine (1977) and others have regarded sympathetically the suggestion that the inscriptions which testify to Sabaean presence in Ethiopia may have been set up by colonists around the time of the Sabaean ruler Karibil Watar in the late fourth century BC; but the dating is very uncertain, as noted above. They may have been military or trading colonists, living in some sort of symbiosis with the local Ethiopian population, perhaps under a species of treaty-status.[1]
With regards to the D'MT complex, it's noted:
Its rulers, kings and mukarribs, by including the name Saba in their titles, **appear to have expressly claimed control over the resident Sabaeans** in their country; actual Sabaean presence is assumed at Matara, Yeha and Hawelti-Melazo according to present information (Schneider 1973: 388).
The Sabaeans in Ethiopia appear, from the use of certain place-names like Marib in their inscriptions, to have kept in contact with their own country, and indeed the purpose of their presence may well have been to maintain and develop links across the sea to the profit of South Arabia's trading network.
Naturally, such an arrangement would have worked also to the benefit of the indigenous Ethiopian rulers, who employed the titles mukarrib and mlkn at first, and nagashi (najashi) or negus later; no pre-Aksumite najashi or negus is known.
It seems that these `inscriptional' Sabaeans did not remain more than a century or so — or perhaps even only a few decades — as a separate and identifiable people. Possibly their presence was connected to a contemporary efflorescence of Saba on the other side of the Red Sea. Their influence was only in a limited geographical area, affecting the autochthonous population in that area to a greater or lesser degree. Such influences as did remain after their departure or assimilation fused with the local cultural background , and contributed to the ensemble of traits which constituted Ethiopian civilisation in the rest of the pre-Aksumite period. [1]
Moving past the addictive history lessons, let's take a look at other weak moments of the Pagani et al. (2012) analysis. They purportedly have been able to get solid dates on "admixture" events, by using some ROLLOFF logarithm coded "in-house".
Short of coming across haplogroups wherein the mutation rate is supposedly steady and non-variable, available dating models, from "strict-clock" inference model, "relaxed-clock" inference models to time-free inference models (like say, the Bayesian model) hardly ever get 100% accuracy on dating (for example, see [3]). Whereas reporting concrete dates, short of using reference fossils or remains of known dates to aid in phylogenetic dating, imply maximum accuracy of the model being applied, likely within the reach of a 100% accuracy, which as noted, is hardly ever attained through available inference models .
Seemingly neutral segments of the genome are not necessarily inclined to conform to uniform or strict-clock rates of mutation, let alone the even more unpredictable segments of the genome that are under selection. Besides, the parameters picked by the authors, such as the translation of generations into years, is largely an arbitrary variable. So, the alleged attainment of precise dates is cause for skepticism.
As much as I want to get into more of what is actually posted, the material is simply too lengthy to warrant that. And so, for interested parties, the remainder of this material--to give a more complete picture of what is being said--can be attained here: What Ethiopian Genetic Diversity—Really—Reveals!Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa 2013
excerpts...
It is perhaps not a coincidence that the highest levels of west Eurasian ancestry in eastern Africa are found in the Amharaand Tygray, who speak Ethio semitic languages and live in what was previously the territory of D’mt andthe later kingdom of Aksum...
From blog entry, "Haplogroup Assignment; Old Habits that Die Hard", June 30, 2013:
The near identical incidences, aside from peculiarities noted above, of what some take for granted as "non-African" ancestry in the Ethiopian maternal gene pool suggests a population history of considerably deeper time depth than the 3ky ago scenario idolized by followers of a South Arabian origin; their rationale is that subsequent inter-ethnic group intermingling must have evened out the distribution between the major Ethiopian groups. However, the failure of this trend to continue into the Y-DNA [6, 9] counterpart (in what some take for granted as "non-African"), where there seems to be a lingering genetic-structuring along linguistic lines, punches a hole into that frame of mindset.
If anything, the contrasting Y-DNA and mtDNA patterns, the former being largely one of linguistic variation, while the latter largely geographical variation, suggests different demographic processes being the likely driver. The mtDNA may well speak to a common ancestral gene pool from which the major Ethiopian groups emerged, while the Y-DNA is likely speaking to a subsequent differentiation attained in a group whose language was more Semitic-like in its fundamental features. This differentiation would then have had a temporal and spatial component to it [6, 9].
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: A plain text stumped your monkey ass, and you think some one else is dumb
Your lying ass was caught red handed making the retarded statement that derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment, right here:
To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection.--The Explorer
No amount of creative replying is going to fix that. You can either defend that pre-defeated claim or take another loss. it's up to you.
quote:The paper identifies skin pigmentation as phenotypic trait of the allele, not once but several times over.
You’re now getting caught red-handed lying that the contention is about whether the gene is associated with light skin. Troll, you were tasked with backing your piece of sh!t claim up that this phenotype was specifically selected for in Sub-Sahara Africa, not with citing what so far has been found to be an expression of derived SLC24A5.
quote:The section cited mentions nothing about SLC45A2
Your filthy lying ass is clearly in need of schooling on the fact that SLC45A2 was referred to, among other genes, when they said ’’other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe’’.
quote:Where do you see, ’’looked at’’ the literature first to identify which genes they should be looking ‘’for’’" in this
Of course it’s not in that citation after your pathologically lying, bummy ass doctored it, thinking your manipulations would go unnoticed.
The quote without your deliberate distortions:
To further investigate the effect of admixture on the genetic landscape of skin pigmentation in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; 46 [***footnote***] however, none were found in our outlier regions. --Pagani et al
quote:You needed to be fed like a helpless baby with this "no-brainer"
Back to running away from the inconvenient facts that are being shoved down your throat, eh? These facts are staring you in the face, and there is nothing you’re going to do about them, other than masking your inability to adress them with keyboard warrior macho-talk, like the pathetic b!tch that you are:
Your spacey attempt to wilfully wish these facts away with some random mumbo jumbo blank no-brainer invocation of ’’differing bio-histories’’ is at odds with the fact that I’ve just told your dumbass that the levels of derived SLC24A5 in Ethiopia match the amount of Syria affinity having haplotypes in the respective local populations. --Swenet
quote:That's just what you do: guessing.
Yes, citing sections of my posts that don't even contain arguments and thinking of creative ways to make off-topic comments is what you do when imminent thrashing is staring you in the face. How about actually addressing these facts, which you've gone to great lengths to seek refuge from:
quote:your dogmatic troll inclinations are obstructing your bias stricken eyeballs from seeing the readily observable fact that Pagani et al’s methods are vindicated by the fact that the Omotic speakers, whose African haplotypes differ from other Ethiopians only in terms of component proportion (i.e. not in terms of component type), yet, they had little trouble coming out as biologically almost exclusively African. Of course, their comparatively low level of SLC24A5, their comparatively lower amount of non-African uniparentals, their comparatively lower amount of Ethio-Semitic loanwords and comparatively larger distance from the ancient urban localities that would have attracted populations with these Syrian affinity having haplotypes you're lamenting (but can't do sh!t about), have nothing to do with each other; it’s all just a coincidental happenstance that these independent phenomena happen to date to 3kya and come together to form a coherent multi-disciplinary case.
When you’ve mustered up the balls to do so, try tackling the following inconvenient facts as well, will ya? I have more ass whooping in store for your lying ass:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Go ahead and ask many more times, the answer doesn't change
Of course it won’t, and the reason is none other than the fact that you can’t answer it without inserting girly giggle accompanied unsubstantiated claims that the Sri Lankan skin pigmentation state of affairs bolsters your non-existent case! For the fourth time it’s observed that you’re scared sh!tless to address what is being shoved in your face, with more than tail between legs amygdala triggered non-replies:
Lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of this gene. --Swenet
Just thought I’d ’remind’ you that you ran away from this, here, too:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: I thought I already clued in your stupid monkey ass that if there were no other skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians
You’re such a phuckin’ low IQ, dumbass, charlatan. Is your bum ass saying that the Ethiopian sample implicated here wouldn’t have had additional skin pigmentation genes, had, let’s say, derived SLC45A2 been found in them? Get to work, fraud:
If not negative selection, explain why no other skin pigmentation genes were found in the Ethiopian population --Swenet
Your filthy lying ass is clearly in need of schooling on the fact that SLC45A2 was referred to, among other genes, when they said ’’other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe’’.
Cite the text (Pagani et al. 2012) that mentions "SLC45A2", fuckhead monkey.
quote:
Of course it’s not in that citation after your pathologically lying, bummy ass doctored it, thinking your manipulations would go unnoticed.
The quote without your deliberate distortions:
To further investigate the effect of admixture on the genetic landscape of skin pigmentation in Ethiopia, we also looked at other genes associated with pigmentation in Europe; 46 [***footnote***] however, none were found in our outlier regions. --Pagani et al
You've confused Pagani et al.'s application of "looked at" in the text for this self-interjected moronic substitution, "looked at’’ the literature first to identify which genes they should be looking ‘’for’’" (your words), simply because they happen to put a footnote number "46" at the end of the sentence. You've had your fuckhead stuck in your fat ass for too long.
quote:
quote:That's just what you do: guessing.
Yes, citing sections of my posts that don't even contain arguments
There's no point in citing useless "sections" of your post stuffed with fairy tale gibberish (you mindlessly confuse with "arguments"), and my response (as cited) was adequately measured.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Your lying ass was caught red handed making the retarded statement that derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment, right here:
To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection.--The Explorer
"caught red handed" in this piece, in which "derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment" is nowhere to be found outside of your stunted head:
fuckhead queen, this extract is not spelling out "another" (your fictitious) biological function. It's merely speaking to the positive selection of the gene. To the contrary, the paper only identifies skin pigmentation as the likely phenotypic candidate of this selection. You are too fucked in the skull to even properly read a citation that you cherry-picked for dogmatic purposes. - Explorer
Sure, I was caught "red-handed". Red-handed in correcting your dumb monkey ass. Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Can't believe these guys are still arguing over slc24A5. As a pigmentation gene after publications to the contrary. Eg. Norton, Kittles, Rees, Sturm. Etc tsk tsk 2yrs behind the times. This is what the simple-minded racist believe..
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Would someone post that Norton/Kittles paper up and shut these annoying brtha’s up. I am not sure what’s up with you Sweetness but everyday you prove to be dumber than the day before
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote: These would be the very things that you lack: an intellect, or any real contribution to make. Funny how that works out. It's called projecting; check with a psychiatrist.
I can produce a long list of substance I bring here. How about you? Where's your real contribution, besides being a wimp and an unimportant chatroom cheerleader?
PS: In case you didn't get the memo, your opinion is worthless. On the other hand, if you want to discuss facts, I'll be glad to indulge you.
You got me... I'm not an anthropologist, so have very little to contribute here...however, I still don't have to resort to your monkey taunts to make my points.
And you're supposed to be someone helping to re-write African history within the context of wider racism. Wow. We really are fvked!
You talk about projection - maybe you could clue us in on why you use monkey taunts?
Just read this -
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: ^Compared to his psychopathic outbursts elsewhere, those epithets you've highlighted make him look like a saint. What ''The Explorer'' aka ''Supercar'' aka ''Ausarian''aka ''Mystery Solver''s posts look like when he is in full troll mode
Don't think I've ever read anything like that on a forum before. What conclusion is one to draw from those comments?
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: @The Explorer
quote: These would be the very things that you lack: an intellect, or any real contribution to make. Funny how that works out. It's called projecting; check with a psychiatrist.
I can produce a long list of substance I bring here. How about you? Where's your real contribution, besides being a wimp and an unimportant chatroom cheerleader?
PS: In case you didn't get the memo, your opinion is worthless. On the other hand, if you want to discuss facts, I'll be glad to indulge you.
You got me... I'm not an anthropologist, so have very little to contribute here...however, I still don't have to resort to your monkey taunts to make my points.
And you're supposed to be someone helping to re-write African history within the context of wider racism. Wow. We really are fvked!
You talk about projection - maybe you could clue us in on why you use monkey taunts?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
Ass-Offerer.. I mean Explorer, I knew your ass was a shady character! Pongid ape's display in this thread is rather telling. Thank god there is such a thing as a time constraint, when it comes to doing damage control and editing posts. The guy is mentally retarded.
it goes back and forth
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: @The Explorer
quote: These would be the very things that you lack: an intellect, or any real contribution to make. Funny how that works out. It's called projecting; check with a psychiatrist.
I can produce a long list of substance I bring here. How about you? Where's your real contribution, besides being a wimp and an unimportant chatroom cheerleader?
PS: In case you didn't get the memo, your opinion is worthless. On the other hand, if you want to discuss facts, I'll be glad to indulge you.
You got me... I'm not an anthropologist, so have very little to contribute here...however, I still don't have to resort to your monkey taunts to make my points.
And you're supposed to be someone helping to re-write African history within the context of wider racism. Wow. We really are fvked!
You talk about projection - maybe you could clue us in on why you use monkey taunts?
Just read this -
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: ^Compared to his psychopathic outbursts elsewhere, those epithets you've highlighted make him look like a saint. What ''The Explorer'' aka ''Supercar'' aka ''Ausarian''aka ''Mystery Solver''s posts look like when he is in full troll mode
Don't think I've ever read anything like that on a forum before. What conclusion is one to draw from those comments?
We are not fucked.
Ass-plorer is mest up by himself, for himself, with himself... Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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You got me... I'm not an anthropologist, so have very little to contribute here
No doubt, which is why if you are contributing zip, it's best to simply step aside; it beats serving as a cheerleading minion for the poster that you are obviously emotionally partial to.
quote: ...however, I still don't have to resort to your monkey taunts to make my points.
Rather, you resort to school-girl-like cheerleading on the sideline, while name-calling on the other hand.
Calling someone a "stupid monkey" is supposedly the mother of all insults, but calling someone a "filthy lying pig" is just fine in your book. How "classy" of you.
quote: And you're supposed to be someone helping to re-write African history within the context of wider racism. Wow. We really are fvked!
I never announced my role on ES to you, so how the heck do you know whom I supposed to be? I'm not here for your entertainment or your personal liking. When I was joining ES, you were not around to make that decision for me. You don't like what you see, then you certainly have the free-will of not participating, or just leave altogether.
My goal is to set the record straight where I see it necessary, and if that means talking down to some lowlife at the level he/she can understand, then so be it. Simply put, I come at you in the way you come at me.
quote: You talk about projection - maybe you could clue us in on why you use monkey taunts?
It's not complicated, buddy: it's called an insult. Insults are supposed to be painful, not generous...that's why they are insults, if you get my drift.
quote:Just read this -
quote: Originally posted by Swenet: ^Compared to his psychopathic outbursts elsewhere, those epithets you've highlighted make him look like a saint. [b]What ''The Explorer'' aka ''Supercar'' aka ''Ausarian''aka ''Mystery Solver''s posts look like when he is in full troll mode
Don't think I've ever read anything like that on a forum before. What conclusion is one to draw from those comments?
The conclusion to be drawn, is that you are obviously a minion and must not be too bright, when you are clueless enough to listen to a clown which itself is throwing around insults left and right.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Cite the text (Pagani et al. 2012) that mentions "SLC45A2", fuckhead monkey.
You now realize that you phucked up when your glaring obliviousness to the matters being discussed led you to confuse my mention of SLC45A2 for a mistaken identity with SLC24A5 on my part. In a desperate bid to safe face and hide your glaring blunder, you're now moving the goal post to whether SLC45A2 was singled out and specifically articulated in Pagani's text. Filthy lying ass pig, didn't I tell your filthy ass to stop lying so much?
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: You've confused Pagani et al.'s application of "looked at" in the text for this self-interjected moronic substitution
Lying ass pig, they referenced a 2009 paper which has a section dedicated to the exact same pigmentation genes that were of interest to Pagani et al. Do your struggling neurones imagine the footnote is sitting there for decoration purposes? What is it doing there if not serving as a reference to point their readership to the genes they themselves had the samples tested for? Speak up, troll!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: There's no point in citing useless "sections" of your post stuffed with fairy tale gibberish
Filthy lying ass pig, your structural angst of addressing what you're referring to as ''fairy tales'' speaks louder than your wimpy, all by your lonesome, protestations. two invitations, pig. Two invitations were extended to you, and both of them were met with angst driven avoidance and subsequent toothless tough talk. This is the third invitation to back your piece of sh!t claim up:
quote:your dogmatic troll inclinations are obstructing your bias stricken eyeballs from seeing the readily observable fact that Pagani et al’s methods are vindicated by the fact that the Omotic speakers, whose African haplotypes differ from other Ethiopians only in terms of component proportion (i.e. not in terms of component type), yet, they had little trouble coming out as biologically almost exclusively African. Of course, their comparatively low level of SLC24A5, their comparatively lower amount of non-African uniparentals, their comparatively lower amount of Ethio-Semitic loanwords and comparatively larger distance from the ancient urban localities that would have attracted populations with these Syrian affinity having haplotypes you're lamenting (but can't do sh!t about), have nothing to do with each other; it’s all just a coincidental happenstance that these independent phenomena happen to date to 3kya and come together to form a coherent multi-disciplinary case.
--Swenet
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: "caught red handed" in this piece, in which "derived SLC24A5 was selected for in a tropical environment" is nowhere to be found outside of your stunted head
...and then the lying ass troll goes on to re-confirm its shaky interpretation that Pagani state that SLC24A5 got selected in the Ethiopian Cushitic-Semitic speakers because of its light skin associated features. You're stumped by 1) the fact that the implied populations are living in highly inconducive intense UV environments 2) that there are no traces of other pigmentation genes in Semitic-Cushitic speakers (despite their inferred ancient presence) and 3) that derived SLC24A5 in the other Ethiopian populations did not undergo selection.
When you’ve mustered up the balls to do so, try tackling the following inconvenient facts as well, will ya? I have more ass whooping in store for your lying ass:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Go ahead and ask many more times, the answer doesn't change
Of course it won’t, and the reason is none other than the fact that you can’t answer it without inserting girly giggle accompanied unsubstantiated claims that the Sri Lankan skin pigmentation state of affairs bolsters your non-existent case! For the fourth time it’s observed that you’re scared sh!tless to address what is being shoved in your face, with more than tail between legs amygdala triggered non-replies:
Lying ass troll, the Sri Lankan samples had an excess of SLC24A5, and a severe deficit of SLC45A2. Explain this under your crackpot theory that a severe minority of SLC24A5 correlated genes testify to an indigenous origin of this gene. --Swenet
Just thought I’d ’remind’ you that you ran away from this, here, too:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: I thought I already clued in your stupid monkey ass that if there were no other skin pigmentation genes in Ethiopians
You’re such a phuckin’ low IQ, dumbass, charlatan. Is your bum ass saying that the Ethiopian sample implicated here wouldn’t have had additional skin pigmentation genes, had, let’s say, derived SLC45A2 been found in them? Get to work, fraud:
If not negative selection, explain why no other skin pigmentation genes were found in the Ethiopian population --Swenet
Ass-plorer is mest up by himself, for himself, with himself...
Ass-ion still has its paper-lion fuckhead up his fat Haile-Selassie worshiping ass, forcing hot-air to channel from the ass-hole to the pot-mouth, which is why stuff (as cited) come out of the pot-orifice that make less and less sense with each blurt. Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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