I was wrong to say they were Red figures.



Wally, Why are there Yellow figures being portrayed during this Amarna Art Movement?
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL It's the New Year and you guys are still arguing over this sh|t?

First of all to Spiral, you are correct that the Amarna period does NOT mean women were no longer depicted yellow and the converse is true for Wally, even periods earlier than Amarna does not mean they were not depicted brown. And let's be real. The shade used to depict men is brown NOT 'red' and it is usually a mahogany to chocolate type brown.

I will say, that all BUST type portraiture shows no such yellow color symbolism. By the way, I find it funny Spiral that you consider the yellow color to be the "true" complexion of Egyptians yet not the brown.

To Wally, that bust has been studied for decades and while there is a more realistic depiction of Nefertiti within the visible bust, that does NOT mean the outside is a fraud. As Spiral has pointed out, there is no evidence whatsoever of paint being added. On the contrary, there is way more evidence of paint loss which again explains my theory of the color being faded.

Both of you guys (Wally & Spiral) are letting your biases get the best of you!

By the way Wally, you really need to update your website.



The reconstruction of the Younger Lady above is NOT Nefertiti but through recent DNA evidence is found to be not only the mother of Tutankhamun but the SISTER of Akhenaten.
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Somebody with compassion, please toss this guy Spiralman a lifebuoy or a lifeboat to
all of his other historically challenged friends.

...does anyone here with visual acuity see anything other than Black folks represented
here...see any 'Mediterranean Caucasoids' or 'European farmers' or quite simply White
people?

== I mean where da White folks at, and where's another Nefertiti image which matches the
Nazi version in coloration?





The fake Nazi sh|t is all you got junior -
show another bust of Nefertiti with this coloration!
I'll bet you a nickle and a cookie that you can't...
I mean, even Zahi Hawass can't...


This is fake sh|t!

 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

By the way Wally, you really need to update your website.

The reconstruction of the Younger Lady above is NOT
Nefertiti but through recent DNA evidence is found to be
not only the mother of Tutankhamun but the SISTER of Akhenaten.

---

Djehuti,
You need to read carefully and not just skim...
Here's what I also said on my website:

"Irrelevant Skepticism

This discovery has engendered the inevitable debate as to whether or not it is actually the
remains of Queen Nefertiti. Whether or not it is the mummy of the celebrity queen or not is
irrelevant. It is an Egyptian Royal mummy. This is what Ancient Egyptian royalty looked like.
And that, quite simply, is the more important point."

...and stick around and it will be revealed that, like 'Tetisheri', etc., etc., that

This is fake sh|t!

 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Indeed. Notice his obvious bias when he thinks the yellow color of women is the true complexion of Egyptians but not the dark brown or as he calls it "red" color.

Even if the women were painted yellow, that still does not negate the obviously African or even "negroid" features of the faces and even steatopygous bodices of the women.

As far as Nefertiti's bust, again even if women are painted yellow on murals, many Egyptian art experts still believe the color to be unusual in that all other known full painted busts have more realistic depictions of skin color.

The only other known examples of fully painted busts are Tutankhamun and Tiye below. BOTH of which come from the same Amarna period as Nefertiti.





Tiye is a woman yet she definitely wasn't painted 'yella'!
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 

Berlin Photographic Archive

Yet, when Egypt asked for its repatriation after WWII
Germany retorted "Why are you making such a fuss over
a statue that is fake?"

Jean-Jacques Fiechter
Egyptian Fakes:
masterpieces that duped the art world
and the experts who uncovered them
Paris: Flammarion, 2009
pp 234, 235

It should be noted the author is an academic novelist
and concludes the bust is not fake. In this book are
many fakes and the majority of them look black not white.

What I'd like to know is if AEs were in the habit of
plastering over stone busts? What other busts are done
in plaster? Do they have stone cores? Are their cores so
different from their shells?

Alexander Huppertz's radiology report can be found here.
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
A "yella" sista from the 12th dynasty, before the revolution...


Tiye - a queen-mother of the revolutionary Amarna family


Queen Mother Tiye .................................. Amenhotep ........................................................ Noble man ............................................................ Re_s_hotep Ntr Nfr


== wha da White folks at? Oh yeah...

The fake Nazi sh|t!

 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed. Notice his obvious bias when he thinks the yellow color of women is the true complexion of Egyptians but not the dark brown or as he calls it "red" color.

Even if the women were painted yellow, that still does not negate the obviously African or even "negroid" features of the faces and even steatopygous bodices of the women.

As far as Nefertiti's bust, again even if women are painted yellow on murals, many Egyptian art experts still believe the color to be unusual in that all other known full painted busts have more realistic depictions of skin color.

The only other known examples of fully painted busts are Tutankhamun and Tiye below. BOTH of which come from the same Amarna period as Nefertiti.





Tiye is a woman yet she definitely wasn't painted 'yella'!

---

The bust of Queen Tiye is made out of Yew wood. Do you know what Yew wood looks like? Google it. Also Wood darkens with age so i don't see how using the Queen Tiye bust furthers your point.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 


yew wood spoon
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:



Are their cores so
different from their shells?

---

 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Nazi tomb robbers - the two men on the left with their "find" and their Egyptian worker on the right

which, according to alTakruri; the post-Nazi response to Egypt's request for the bust's return was

"Why are you making such a fuss over a statue that is fake?"

Now these same neo-Nazi mentality folks are still faking with their besides the point comments about
Tiye's portrait being carved in yew wood (they would have much preferred the Kememou would have
done it in alabaster) as if the Amarna artists didn't have a clue as to which media to use to express
themselves...

I repeat...

The fake Nazi sh|t is all you got juniors -
show another bust of Nefertiti with this coloration!
I'll bet you a nickle and a cookie that you can't...
I mean, even Zahi Hawass can't...


This is fake sh|t!


These are real representations of Nefertiti, her husband, her offspring, and relatives of the royal Eighteenth dynastic family...





...and one of our other resident loonies would pontificate that these east African ladies bear no resemblance to this ancient royal family!


...but let us not even leave Egypt; isn't this a clear proof of the race/ethnicity/phenotype ( the Raison d'être for Lioness, Spiralman, etc., being here to refute) of the Ancient Egyptian nationality...

 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Wally what is your explanation for the stone under that plaster in the Nefertiti bust?

Also the following Nefertari, real or fake in your opinion?




 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
I posted a crescending series of questions none of which
is to be isolated from the others:

1) Were AEs in the habit of plastering over stone busts?
2) What other busts are done in plaster?
3) Do they have stone cores?
4) Are their cores so different from their shells?

quote:

---

Unmasking of a Second Hidden Face
A visual separation of the core's surface from the outer layer was performed (Fig 3a, 3b). The slightly bumpy surface was caused by the boundary artifacts between the layers (Fig 3b). In the face, the plaster layer was shown to have been extremely thin, with a maximum thickness of 1–2 mm (Figs 2a, 3c, ). The face of the core was very delicately carved, appeared highly symmetric, and could have certainly been a realistic portrait of the queen. It differed in some important details from that of the visible outer surface (Fig 3c). The corners of the eyelids showed less depth and appeared less three-dimensional. There were creases around the corners of the mouth and cheeks, a less harmonious nose ridge, and less prominent cheekbones. The nose showed a slight bump at the height of the chondral transition (Fig 3e, ). The area around the cheekbones of the inner face appeared less three-dimensional than they were in the outer face, where they were shaped more prominently. Both ears bared only distinct traces of being remodeled (Figs 2f, 3g, ). They were based on the very detailed limestone composition. The ear canals could have been shaped with different tools. The asymmetry in the shape seemed acquired, owing to damage, and was more prominent in the left ear (Fig 3h). The right ear canal showed a pointed end, which suggested the use of a drill-type tool, whereas the left ear canal ended bluntly.

---

The above quote from the radiology report shows differences between
the limestone core and stucco shell significant enough that an
ethnologist's reconstruction of the core barely resembles the shell.




There are also questions about the authenticity of
that photo with the three men and bust presumably
shot on site. The white men are alternately identified
as Borchardt and Lefebvre or as Hermann Ranke and
some unnamed assistant foreman.

Verifiable written documentation says that Lefebvre was only
shown photos of the bust so how can he be one of the three
guys in that photo? Borchardt supposedly showed Lefebvre
a number of photos of the bust. Where are they now and
why arn't we shown them instead of the three guys?

Also puzzling is that "French archaeologists present at the site
never mentioned the finding and neither did written accounts
of the digs. The earliest detailed scientific report appeared in
1923, 11 years after the discovery."

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:



Are their cores so
different from their shells?

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:



Tiye is a woman yet she definitely wasn't painted 'yella'!

---

The bust of Queen Tiye is made out of Yew wood. Do you know what Yew wood looks like? Google it. Also Wood darkens with age so i don't see how using the Queen Tiye bust furthers your point.

---

Tiye^



Amenhotep III and Tiye (Look at their feet and arms)^



Tiye^



Amenhotep III and Tiye^


Now what, bub..?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:




Amenhotep III and Tiye^


Now what, bub..?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralbrain:

The bust of Queen Tiye is made out of Yew wood. Do you know what Yew wood looks like? Google it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:



yew wood spoon

---

quote:

---

Also Wood darkens with age so i don't see how using the Queen Tiye bust furthers your point.

---

My point is that the wood is PAINTED, fool! Even a close inspection of the bust shows brush stroke marks!



The same is said about the black eyeliner, black pupils and white sclera of the eyes.

So Tiye's bust still proves my point as well as Tut's which you have no explanation for.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 


^ Note the splotches on the neck

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

Nazi tomb robbers - the two men on the left with their "find" and their Egyptian worker on the right

---

^ Takruri's picture which Wally has blown up is illustrates my point further. Notice the dark areas around the cheeks and neck. And no it is NOT dirt, because the archaeologists would have brushed and cleaned it off first.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Below the bust and three images from the Alexander Huppertz CT scan analysis that alTakruri linked





What we see here is that the core is almost identical to the outer to the outer shell. It has been noted that the stucco shell may have been an attempt to make the approximately 60 year old Nefertiti look younger than the more realistic inner core rendition that showed wrinkles.

_______________________________________________





Below we have an artist's more politically correct computer graphic version. Unlike the CT scan or the original the artist has enhanced the fullness of the lips in an attempt to true nego-ize her lips area in order to satisfy certain audiences.



a similar lip and color enhancement is done here, with even larger earrings to capture "that essence"


 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyingass:

Below the bust and three images from the Alexander Huppertz CT scan analysis that alTakruri linked





What we see here is that the core is almost identical to the outer to the outer shell. It has been noted that the stucco shell may have been an attempt to make the approximately 60 year old Nefertiti look younger than the more realistic inner core rendition that showed wrinkles.

---

quote:

---

Below we have an artist's more politically correct computer graphic version. Unlike the CT scan or the original the artist has enhanced the fullness of the lips in an attempt to true nego-ize her lips area in order to satisfy certain audiences.

---

LOL There is nothing "politically correct" about it. Again, that is YOUR own biased view surfacing. The artist bases his reconstruction not only on the CT scan but on what the Amarna art actually entails and that means full lips, you moron!



As you can see in the CT scan above the outline of the lips is not clearly shown. Also, since the inner image is of Nefertiti in her old age her lips would have been more full in her youth which is what the reconstruction was actually. Furthermore, we can see that the nose in the CT scan is actually wider with the nostrils upturned. If anything the CT scan shows a much more "negroid" nose, yet the artist in his reconstruction makes it smaller and more "caucasoid"!

quote:

---

a similar lip and color enhancement is done here, with even larger earrings to capture "that essence"

---

The portrait above is above is a reconstruction of a MUMMY labeled as the 'Younger Lady' of KV35. It was only speculated to be Nefertiti but recent DNA shows it wasn't but is instead the Akhenaton's sister as well as Tut's mother. The reconstruction by the way, was done by forensic experts hired by the Discovery channel. This person was double-blinded and had no idea it was an Egyptian mummy! All they knew was judging by the person's features it was an African of East/Northeast African descent! The hat and earrings were added only later by another artist.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Perhaps the scientist who reconstructed this skull of KV55 mummy now known to be Akhenaten is being "poltically correct" as well.



Perhaps the Egyptians were as well...


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Djehuti, your source lists that (lower) head as a scribe not Akenhaten

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003902


. Djehuti, I realize you're not scared of this other thread, you must have just overlooked it
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:




Amenhotep III and Tiye^


Now what, bub..?

---

kalonji, why are you using this last pic as a now what example?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Because I figured, two crawling snakes, like you and that other one, would be familiar with and recognize objects residing as low to the ground as feet when they saw them.

Hence, Tiye's black feet on that image, behind Amenhotep III.
LOL [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL The artist bases his reconstruction not only on the CT scan but on what the Amarna art actually entails and that means full lips,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Because I figured, two crawling snakes, like you and that other one, would be familiar with and recognize objects residing as low to the ground as feet when they saw them.

Hence, Tiye's black feet on that image, behind Amenhotep III.
LOL

---

That's strange the feet look brown to me [/QB]

---

Yeah, very strange indeed
Especially since the above is coming from someone who, not to long ago, subscribed to the notion that Obama is black.


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Because I figured, two crawling snakes, like you and that other one, would be familiar with and recognize objects residing as low to the ground as feet when they saw them.

Hence, Tiye's black feet on that image, behind Amenhotep III.
LOL

---

That's strange the feet look brown to me

---

Yeah, very strange indeed
Especially since the above is coming from someone who, not to long ago, subscribed to the notion that Obama is black.

[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

Djehuti, your source lists that (lower) head as a scribe not Akenhaten

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003902


. Djehuti, I realize you're not scared of this other thread, you must have just overlooked it

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Because I figured, two crawling snakes, like you and that other one, would be familiar with and recognize objects residing as low to the ground as feet when they saw them.

Hence, Tiye's black feet on that image, behind Amenhotep III.
LOL

---

That's strange the feet look brown to me

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

LOL, that's stupid it makes no seem to refer to select Amara art when we are dealing with a piece of
art. The core is shwon, that is the art, that is the form. So now you expect the artist to make it more like some other piece of art? Ridiculous
This is a very big fail for you

LOL x 100

---

quote:

---

Kalonji, the Nefertiti bust, in your opinion is

a) 100% real

b) Core and Shell are real but paint is faded

c) Core and shell are real as forms but the paint has been purposely altered or repainted to make her look more Caucasian

d) Shell is fake, Core is Real

e) 100% fake

f)-Djehuti

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:


Any questions? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
[QB] What is your opinion of the below sculpture?

1) real

2) fake

3) real but repainted in modern times

4) not sure

---

 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Following the 'call and response' on this thread is both amusing and somewhat troubling;
amusing in the absolute ass kicking that's being administered to lioness but troubling for
this reason:

There once was, at the San Francisco main library, this huge coffee table book devoted
entirely to photographs of the Amarna art collection - both priceless and costly! I mean
it was like paging through Ebony or Essence magazines...only one problem, this fantastic
book 'grew' feet and apparently 'walked' out of the library - happens quite often in Bay
Area libraries...

As the Chinese proverb says "One picture is worth ten thousand words" and so the mere
source reference to this book, out of print and one copy residing in the library of a Bay Area
thief, would blow the Nefertiti fraud clean out of the window...
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Alot of the Amarna art is stylized and exaggerated.

For example look at this Akhenahten:



Nobody has a head that long and narrow.

This other Akhenahten below is at least believable as a realistic human head:



Akhenahten with Blue Crown, Cairo Museum, Egypt


Akhenahten was a little creepy looking. Not really as attractive as his elongated versions.

Not surprising, he went a little overboard on the monotheism/personality cult thing, call it henotheism if you prefer. He went in and shut down a lot of worship of other deities, meanwhile non-religious affairs of state were going to pot with neglect.
There was a backlash. He was stricken from the king's list later on including Tut and several others who came after him who were felt to have that Atenism heretical taint.
 

---

Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.

---

That sounds made up. There is recorded documentation that, paid craftsmen not slaves would have been employed on high skill level pieces such as these.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.

---

That sounds made up. There is recorded documentation that, paid craftsmen not slaves would have been employed on high skill level pieces such as these.

---

Skilled craftsmen were also employed. But the politically correct won't allow us to speak of the slaves that were also highly used for their talents.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.

---

That sounds made up. There is recorded documentation that, paid craftsmen not slaves would have been employed on high skill level pieces such as these.

---

Skilled craftsmen were also employed. But the politically correct won't allow us to speak of the slaves that were also highly used for their talents.

---

you need to link credible sources saying and documenting that or no one's going to buy it

---

The more politically correct term would be servant and not slave.
 

---

Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
None of these afrocentrists on this site are going to buy it anyways. It doesn't matter what links you provide. That's why i'm reluctant to provide any sources. I provide some hints and clues but I don't go out of my way to work myself to death like you do. You're not going to get anyone to appreciate your efforts. They have made up their minds that they are right and you are wrong.
 

---

Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
 
Gosh, well said Djehuti. Thank you

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

Djehuti, your source lists that (lower) head as a scribe not Akenhaten

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003902


. Djehuti, I realize you're not scared of this other thread, you must have just overlooked it

---

First off, the source is wrong then because that bust is an Amarna one depicting Akhenaten. Second, I'm not at all "scared" of your thread. Any thread created by you is quite useless.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Because I figured, two crawling snakes, like you and that other one, would be familiar with and recognize objects residing as low to the ground as feet when they saw them.

Hence, Tiye's black feet on that image, behind Amenhotep III.
LOL

---

That's strange the feet look brown to me

---

Of course they are. We keep forgetting that you don't consider dark brown or chocolate complexioned people to be 'black' if it's Egyptian but that's a different case if it is any other kind of African or even African American.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

LOL, that's stupid it makes no seem to refer to select Amara art when we are dealing with a piece of
art. The core is shwon, that is the art, that is the form. So now you expect the artist to make it more like some other piece of art? Ridiculous
This is a very big fail for you

LOL x 100

---

No YOU'RE stupid. Read my edited post again. The lips are only slightly fuller than the core image, because the artist is going for a reconstruction of the youthful Nefertiti not the old aged one in the core. The lips are only slight less full in the core and the nose is wider and upturned but I don't see you consider those "negroid", dummy.

quote:

---

Kalonji, the Nefertiti bust, in your opinion is

a) 100% real

b) Core and Shell are real but paint is faded

c) Core and shell are real as forms but the paint has been purposely altered or repainted to make her look more Caucasian

d) Shell is fake, Core is Real

e) 100% fake

f)-Djehuti

---

YOU are in my opinion:

(a)100% fake, coming here posing as a 'black West African' girl, when in reality you are an anti-African, black-phobic, white loser.

(b)100% bias, favoring Indian, Middle Eastern-- everything else BUT African-- when it comes to the people and culture of ancient Egypt

(c)100% disingenuous with your silly rhetorical questions, your ridiculous replies, and runaround answers to relevant questions.

(d)100% delusional in seeing everything un-African about Egypt when it is just that- African

(e)100% deranged and or stupid, since you find ways to get around the FACTS that are thrown at your face every day, while desperately citing either outdated or inaccurate sources to prove your debunked claims.

(f)100% Troll, straight up.

Any questions?

---

 

---

Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
Old Kingdom statue of a white caucasian male. Oh wait, this is a black male with the paint wore off.lol


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
None of these afrocentrists on this site are going to buy it anyways. It doesn't matter what links you provide. That's why i'm reluctant to provide any sources. I provide some hints and clues but I don't go out of my way to work myself to death like you do. You're not going to get anyone to appreciate your efforts. They have made up their minds that they are right and you are wrong.

---

If you really believed that you wouldn't even bother commenting at all.
Some of the more scientific minded Afrocentrits will consider scientific sources even if they outwardly tell you they disagree.
Look at Djehuti for example, he's over there hiding behind that tree. He comes back when your back is turned sets off a firecracker and then runs back behind the tree.

yes the paint seemed to be the color of the leg
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
A Simple girl - now you have everyone wondering why they didn't see it too!


The statue of Ranofer
Painted limestone, 178cmht. Mariette excavated it, mastaba 40 at Saqqara, Vth dynasty. Now in Cairo Museum.
He was the high priest of Ptah and of Sokar. This statue has a back slab.
The two statues represent the same person, in one of them he wears a wide wig and a short kilt while in the other he depicts with his natural hair and a medium skirt. He holds a small staff in each hand.


Statue of Ranofer (Ranefer). wearing a wig.
Painted limestone.




Statue of Ranofer (Ranefer). without his wig.
Painted limestone.




Collage of two statues of Ranofer (Ranefer).
Painted limestone.




A Simple girl - You are such an asset to this forum because you keep the Afronuts in check. We both know that they would be claiming that the brown patches indicated his skin color and the White patches were simply where the paint wore off. But you knew better, because YOU knew that Black people don't look anything like that.







 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
from Professor Ampim...

"In parts I and II of The Vanishing Evidence series, I examined the progressive decay and
deliberate acts of destruction to temple and tomb carvings. An additional aspect of this
problem is the systematic altering of images in museums throughout Egypt and the Western
World. The vast majority of statues, paintings, and relief images have been subtlety, and in
many cases drastically, altered by conspirators to give them a non-African appearance. The
changing of the racial identity of the vast majority of the ancient Egyptian images in museums
is a major international issue which has been unaddressed. Through my primary research at
nearly all of the major museums throughout Europe, America, Canada, and Egypt, I have been
able to observe that there is an effective and systematic effort to destroy or eliminate the
statues and paintings, which demonstrate that the founders and builders of ancient Egypt
were Black people.

FACIAL & RACIAL RECONSTRUCTION

Museum artifacts are often manipulated and altered by a number of groups having access to
these materials before they are viewed by the public. The broad group of conspirators
involved with this cunning behind-the-scenes work includes: archeologists, Egyptologists,
and government workers, who dig up, record, and decide the fate of the artifacts; restoration
and conservation workers, who restore and piece the broken artifacts back together; and
museum workers and officials who are the last group to handle the artifacts before they go
on public display. The archaeologists/excavators and Egyptologists who dig up the artifacts
have exclusive access to them until they are transported and turned over to a museum or
other institution.
Museum artifacts are therefore handled, repaired, worked on, and “restored” behind the
scenes before they are put on public display. Thus, the time from the initial excavation of an
artifact until it is displayed for public viewing can be several years. In this time period,
incredible changes are usually made to the statues, paintings, and reliefs. In fact, a careful
examination of the ancient Egyptian artifacts bearing racial images in any museum or
collection will demonstrate that the vast majority of items have been re-worked to change
or obscure the racial identity. These museum images have been tampered with and often
thoroughly de-Africanized, as they have been transformed from African to a European or
some type of mixed group."

http://manuampim.com/Part_III.htm


...another nose job, this time on "Ranofer"; looks like the crap that Egyptian street vendors peddle to Westeners...

 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
You know Wally, I almost hate to debunk Simple girl and Lioness any more. The poor dears have become so dependent on having a real place in history, visa-vi appropriating Black history. That I am almost reluctant to prove to them that as the illiterate Nomadic people in central Asia that they were at this time, they really don't have a history as White people. But then again, I am honor bound to produce the truth, so my sympathetic feelings must be put aside.
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
It's funny how Mike says the nose on Ranofer is no different than African noses

And Wally says such a nose is not African that it has been altered.




unbroken nose version




Mike you need to correct Wally some more, he thinks there is such thing as an un-African nose, he has bought into the albino propaganda
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Lioness, I will gladly explain it.

Africans (Blacks) are the only pure-unadulterated Humans. In their ranks are representatives of all Human types - including Whites (Albinos) and Mongols. Whites and Mongols are "Single" phenotype Humans who separated from "Normal" Humans circa 50-60,000 ya.

After the separation, they had no choice but to "Inbreed" thus they took on little genetic material from other Humans for a long period of time. And of course as with any breed of animal, inbreeding leads to certain "Fixed" characteristics and certain weaknesses.

Thus where you will find that Mongols MUST always have a certain narrow range of characteristics, in order to be Mongols. And Whites MUST always have a certain narrow range of characteristics in order to be White.

Natural Man, the African, has no such narrow limitations. Because the African is the progenitor of all Humans, and is representative of all Humans.

Hope that helps.
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
thank you Mike
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
"by YungKano on October 27th, 2005
YungKano

It is not really a question of who allegedly defaced the Her em Akhet's face, (its original
name) but why it was strategically altered. What the statue represents, and what is so
difficult for many to accept, is the fact that it still retains a strong depiction of an African
imaged face on such a marvelous and unparallel structure for that time. It's facial structure is
extremely similar to the indigenous people of current Northeastern Africa regions. Doesn't it
seem odd that just the nose and lips have been uniformly altered through all these years.
Well then why arent the ears so to altered in the same ways, did they not face the same
eroding effects of a protruding facial feature exposed to desert existence over time? Or
simply were they not aimed at by who evers ignorant army launched those rockets. As a
result writers of our New Western, "civilized," notion of approved history have also
overlooked these facts .
The answer becomes apparent, the northern more barbaric (in a sense of a mind state of war,
violence, and false inheritance) invaders, could not feel a sense of superiority in the
extreme differences in identity that fathered civilization."

● ● ●


A recognized tactic; if you can't hide it and alter it in a museum, you deface it - especially the nose
and the mouth...but, alas, anyone with visual acuity would immediately recognize that one of Ancient
Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculptures is a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Khet - a visual
statement, despite the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...

Horemkhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - par l'homme excellent noir

 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by A Simpleton:

The Egyptian slaves stylized the art in the only way they knew how. Often the art was depicted in their own images because of their limited access to the royal elite.

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LMAOH

So not only did the Egyptians use slaves to make royal artwork but they allowed these slaves to portray the royals in their image?!!

quote:

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Skilled craftsmen were also employed. But the politically correct won't allow us to speak of the slaves that were also highly used for their talents.

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quote:

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None of these afrocentrists on this site are going to buy it anyways. It doesn't matter what links you provide. That's why i'm reluctant to provide any sources. I provide some hints and clues but I don't go out of my way to work myself to death like you do. You're not going to get anyone to appreciate your efforts. They have made up their minds that they are right and you are wrong.

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LOL Not all of us are even black let alone Afrocentric. We are just folks who accept logic and TRUTH. So of course we aren't going to buy you silly b.s.! As far as being "reluctant" to cite sources... LMAO You don't cite sources, because you know mainstream academia supports everything we say. Unless you can cite old outdated sources or make sh|t up like your friend lyingass.

quote:

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Old Kingdom statue of a white caucasian male. Oh wait, this is a black male with the paint wore off.lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[/qb]

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Of course. It is a white male and those brown splotches are just dirt or rust on the stone. LOL [/QB][/QUOTE]


^Are you implying that the so-called brown splotches are evidence this was a black man?
 

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Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
Perhaps it is a suntan or the use of henna as a sunblock.

You do know that the Egyptians used henna don't you? Why would they use henna on black skin?
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Simple people working on Tombs and Temples were not slaves they were ordinary citizens it was their sacred duty,done in rotation between harvest time and Nile floods each village had to send their quota of people think of it like a draft,the people who worked around the valley of the Kings were specialized craft men and their families they could even go on strike if they wanted to which they actually did.

Young Masai Morani or Warrior with Henna-Ed Hair and Beadwork, Laikipia, Kenya, East Africa,

The Queen of Henna - SETONA tarig as-sudan African crossroads

Simple asked
Perhaps it is a suntan or the use of henna as a sunblock. You do know that the Egyptians used henna don't you? Why would they use henna on black skin?

Answer.. Because they can.

 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Henna on a statue?


__________________________________ Ethiopia Harar woman detail hands


Addendum: damn Brada, I was just here and you beat me to the punch, you fast man!
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Hahahah^ got ya!!..
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simpleton:

^Are you trying to say that there were no Egyptian slaves or servants used as artisans? Or that no servants were allowed to work on temples or tombs?

Whether they worked on tombs or not, the vast majority of artwork displaying individuals is of slaves or servants created to accompany the deceased into the afterlife to further serve them there.

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The better question for you is, do you not know the difference between a servant and a slave??

quote:

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Perhaps it is a suntan or the use of henna as a sunblock.

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Or perhaps you are an ignoramus who doesn't know what she's talking about. Since when the hell is henna used as a "sunblock"??! LMAO

quote:

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You do know that the Egyptians used henna don't you? Why would they use henna on black skin?

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LOL Of course I know Egyptians used henna! I know that the Egyptians used henna to dye gray hairs red the same way many East Africans do today.





I also know that Africans apply darker colored henna decoratively to limbs and especially palms of hands if the skin is really dark, though I'm unaware if the Egyptians did this. Many black Africans do as the posters above me have shown.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
fake museum crap...

http://manuampim.com/Part_III.htm

...another nose job, this time on "Ranofer"; looks like the crap that Egyptian street vendors peddle to Westerners...


test your visual acuity - what is strange about this statue?...


hint...Hemiunu - miraculous restored with a European, very non-Ancient Egyptian head...


If you can't hide it and alter it in a museum basement, you deface it - especially the nose
and the mouth...but, alas, anyone with visual acuity would immediately recognize that one of Ancient
Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculptures is a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Khet - a visual
statement, despite the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...

Horemkhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - par l'homme excellent noir

 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

WoW!! good find Wally so Iam betting the head was found but disfigured and they just attached a nose to it..well I am calling it's a near fake..why near fake and not just plain fake(if anyone asked) the body seems real enough.
 

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Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
Relief of Hemiunu

 

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Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
Nefertiti


Who Afrocentric Wally et al considers a Caucasian chick.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Brada my man - I'm not picking on you, but the surprise is that YOU were surprised!

I mean, did you really think that an Egyptian King could REALLY look like THIS????


Ramesses II
Turin Museum
(note the neck line)




Or that an Egyptian Queen could possibly look like one of these?

Ägyptisches Museum Berlin




I mean the techniques have been used over and over.

Did you really think that Egyptians made their statues with noses like this?




BTW, Can you guess who this is?





I though that it was well understood in Black communities, that White people have been creating a fake history for themselves by modifying Black artifacts for centuries - guess I was wrong.
 

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Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
 
I must admit, these are damning evidences.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ You guys are retards, including Mike! How many times must we state that black Africans possess features so called "caucasoid" also. People from northern Sudan down to Somalia have such features but they are equally African.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Djehuti - I am surprised that I need to tell you that the evidence is in the comparisons, not necessarily in the features themselves.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
Djehuti - I am surprised that I need to tell you that the evidence is in the
comparisons, not necessarily in the features themselves.

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Hey Djehuti,

Mike111 has gotcha there bro...

This discussion has very little to do with features! It is general knowledge on this
forum that ALL human features first developed in Africa...

What is being discussed here are comparisons in order to determine what images are
accurate and which ones are frauds. The much touted and bandied about Berlin bust of
'Nefertiti' stands out like a sick tongue when compared to the entire school of Amarna art.

For example, take the beautiful model Iman, make a bust of her, and then instead of painting
her in her natural Somali coloration, you paint her white instead - a fraud, since there are
no white ethnic Somali people. --there are no white ethnic Ancient Egyptians either, bro...
Of course, I know you already know this...
 

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Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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The better question for you is, do you not know the difference between a servant and a slave??

Actually there isn't any difference where the politically correct are concerned.

-------------------------------------------------

quote:

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Perhaps it is a suntan or the use of henna as a sunblock.

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Or perhaps you are an ignoramus who doesn't know what she's talking about. Since when the hell is henna used as a "sunblock"??! LMAO
------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it is you that is the ignoramus as you have so often demonstrated.

http://www.hennapage.com/henna/encyclopedia/skin/sunblock/

Do you actually believe the Egyptians were unaware of henna having any sunscreening effect?
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^He, he, Soooo: White people seeking protection from the Sun, rather than covering ALL exposed areas with Henna, just choose to make pretty designs on their hands with it instead? Damn, White people sure are smart!
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Wally...the following Nefertari, real or fake in your opinion?

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aside from the obvious airbrushing of these images, it appears that these are authentic
objects...
The Goddess Hathor, the golden goddess on the left is correctly described in the top left
glyph as "Hathor" (house of Hor) and the originally brown skinned Queen is identified as "Tahor (the powerful Hor) Nefertiri..."
the middle panel says something like "she's the southern woman that makes the throne great (ie., legitimate)"...

(look it up.)
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

Mike, Karomama does not strike me as being obviously fraudulent,what was the condition of the find? who found it and where? was there any "restoration" done as in the case of the Hanu statue I know she is supposed to be of the Libu dynasty so maybe that meant something or perhaps not. The Rahotep statue I had my doubts two many inconsistencies etc not just the coloring.as pointed out by by Prof. Manu Ampim
http://www.raceandhistory.com/manu/book.htm
 

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Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^He, he, Soooo: White people seeking protection from the Sun, rather than covering ALL exposed areas with Henna, just choose to make pretty designs on their hands with it instead? Damn, White people sure are smart!

---

Perhaps some Egyptian men did use red henna on all exposed areas as a sunblocker. Maybe that's why they're most often depicted as being reddish in color. I'm with Lioness when she says that Egypt was multi-racial with people from all around. In that case henna would have been ideal for people with lighter skin especially if they spent alot of time in the sun.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
African American ancestry; from Ancient Egypt to beyond and before...
Ancient Egypt's oldest and most impressive sculpture is that of a Negro/Black/Noir/Kemi/Ba_ntu... - Hor m Khet - a visual
statement, despite the cannons, was made for eternity to gaze upon...this is "egyptology!"

Horemkhet - "horizon of Hor(us)" - source of wisdom - par l'homme excellent noir

 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
So Simple we are making progress now you go from Kemet being White to Kemet being Multi..and you know what?? you may just be right about Kemities using henna all over their bodies certaintly other East African Cattle keeping cultures did just that which in fact they were, just that we can't say for sure as DJ pointed out earlier.

Herero women Namibia wearing henna

Maasai women wearing henna
 

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Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
Brada, the women in your first pic belong to the Himba ethnic group of Namidia.

As far as I know, they use red ochre, not henna


EDIT:

Actually, you may be right about those females being Herero.
Both ethnic groups are closely related.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simpleton:

Perhaps some Egyptian men did use red henna on all exposed areas as a sunblocker. Maybe that's why they're most often depicted as being reddish in color. I'm with Lioness when she says that Egypt was multi-racial with people from all around. In that case henna would have been ideal for people with lighter skin especially if they spent alot of time in the sun.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
So Simple we are making progress now you go from Kemet being White to Kemet being Multi..and you know what?? you may just be right about Kemities using henna all over their bodies certaintly other East African Cattle keeping cultures did just that which in fact they were, just that we can't say for sure as DJ pointed out earlier.

Herero women Namibia wearing henna

Maasai women wearing henna

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:

Mike, Karomama does not strike me as being obviously fraudulent,what was the condition of the find? who found it and where? was there any "restoration" done as in the case of the Hanu statue I know she is supposed to be of the Libu dynasty so maybe that meant something or perhaps not. The Rahotep statue I had my doubts two many inconsistencies etc not just the coloring. as pointed out by by Prof. Manu Ampim

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Brada-Anansi - A certain amount of thoughtful logic, and common sense, are absolutely essential in this business. I am sure that if Prof. Manu Ampim had waited to be told, then the layman would still be waiting, and ignorant.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
what the f**k is this with the henna sh*t? How easily some of you are diverted from the
topic at hand. Ancient Africans, being the first humans, invented the arts, the sciences,

...including makeup (like the Wodaabe )


It is a pointless diversion as no one in their correct mind would imagine that Black Egyptians
would feel the need for sunblock; how many African Americans do you know who buy these
'white skin protection' products?

Let's keep to the subject of Ancient Egyptian fakes, frauds, and deceptions.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Henna is not a paint that you apply. Henna is
a 'powder' that you make into a paste that you
then leave on the area you want to color.
Depending how long you leave it on the color
will be anything from golden to jetty.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
what the f**k is this with the henna sh*t? How easily some of you are diverted from the
topic at hand. Ancient Africans, being the first humans, invented the arts, the sciences,

...including makeup (like the Wodaabe )


It is a pointless diversion as no one in their correct mind would imagine that Black Egyptians
would feel the need for sunblock; how many African Americans do you know who buy these
'white skin protection' products?

Let's keep to the subject of Ancient Egyptian fakes, frauds, and deceptions.
 

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Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti:
LMAOH[/b] So now you're changing you're tune of Egypt being a white society to a "multiracial" one. You just can't accept it was of one culture and one culture only--AFRICAN.

You're theory is also still ludicrous. It would take a LOT of henna to cover the body. Why not just accept the fact that the Egyptians didn't need sunscreen because they are BLACK. The reddish brown or rather mahogany and even chocolate colors painted on men are the actual skin complexions!
-------------------------------------------------

Your theory that all Egyptians were black is especially ludicrous. If you knew anything about slavery in ancient Egypt you would know that foreign captives were often used for slaves. And slaves could be freed by any number of ways and become a part of Egyptian society. They could even inherit their masters estates if it was the wish of their master. Or marry a free person and become freed themselves.

This would have undoubtedly led to a multi-racial society similar to what you see in America today.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
A Simple Girl - An interesting theory, but just one question. Where would these White Slaves have come from?

As a reminder, we're talking about Egypt circa 2,600 B.C.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:

Your theory that all Egyptians were black is especially ludicrous. If you knew anything about slavery in ancient Egypt you would know that foreign captives were often used for slaves. And slaves could be freed by any number of ways and become a part of Egyptian society. They could even inherit their masters estates if it was the wish of their master. Or marry a free person and become freed themselves.

This would have undoubtedly led to a multi-racial society similar to what you see in America today.

---

LMAO And exactly how could the theory (actually FACT) of all Egyptians being black be ludicrous when Egypt is in Africa and all Egyptology shows it was peopled by and its civilization built by indigenous Africans?? LOL Don't lecture me about how slaves were treated in Egypt. Again, the fact that slaves could be freed and move up in society actually reflects the same practice of slavery in other African societies including those in Sub-Sahara. This was different from the chattel slavery practiced in contemporary Europe such as Greece where slaves had no rights even to their own bodies. That blacks began in Egyptian society as slaves only to intermarry with their (white?) masters is as absurd as your claims of henna used as sunblock! LMAO Get the F**k outta here with that b.s.

Egypt is IN Africa, Egypt IS African, and so were its people! Get over it! Stop being obsessed with and consumed by an African culture you nor your ancestors have nothing to do with, especially if you're so bigoted against the actual people who do-- black Africans.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
The quality of this photograph is poor, because it is a very old B&W photograph which had to be enlarged.




Here is a modern picture of the same stela, as it sits in the Cairo Museum. Funny thing though, now it is said to be Menkaure, 5th king of the fourth dynasty, and the Nose is different. What are we to make of this? Seems "Improvements" were made over the years, but is that legal? (Tongue firmly in Cheek). The Turks in Egypt are just full of surprises!



 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^As I recall, they did something similar with the Hyksos statue.

Those Turks are such great kidders.

Hammana, Hammana, hurry, make them look like us el-Hawass, then we be Egyptian too.
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti:
LMAOH[/b] So now you're changing you're tune of Egypt being a white society to a "multiracial" one. You just can't accept it was of one culture and one culture only--AFRICAN.

You're theory is also still ludicrous. It would take a LOT of henna to cover the body. Why not just accept the fact that the Egyptians didn't need sunscreen because they are BLACK. The reddish brown or rather mahogany and even chocolate colors painted on men are the actual skin complexions!
-------------------------------------------------

Your theory that all Egyptians were black is especially ludicrous. If you knew anything about slavery in ancient Egypt you would know that foreign captives were often used for slaves. And slaves could be freed by any number of ways and become a part of Egyptian society. They could even inherit their masters estates if it was the wish of their master. Or marry a free person and become freed themselves.

This would have undoubtedly led to a multi-racial society similar to what you see in America today.

---

maybe i can make more simple for you simple.

tim kendall-


In the first half of the twentieth century, most European and American scholars identified the Egyptians as "white" and primarily "Near Eastern" in order to remove them from the African cultural sphere and to serve their ignorant and bigoted views that high civilization could only have been created by non-Africans. In the latter twentieth century, Afrocentric scholars indignantly challenged this model, asserting the "blackness" and "African-ness" of the Egyptians. In each case the aim of these scholars was to claim "ownership" of the Egyptians for their own "race" within the context of the modern, primarily American racial debate. In fact, the Egyptians are certainly Africans, but they are neither "white" in the European sense nor "black" in the (central) African. Whether they are "white" or "black" in the American sense will have to remain the personal view of the researcher. The Egyptians really possessed a wide range of skin color and many differing physical characteristics, as did the ancient Nubians. It is therefore interesting to examine the evidence from ancient art for these ancient dwellers of the Nile Valley, for they were probably little different than the present Egyptians and Nubians - and probably no less diverse than we are ourselves.

In northern Egypt, as in all of North Africa along the Mediterranean, most people are light-skinned not because Arabs or Europeans settled there but because the indigenous North African Berbers were light-skinned. Northern Egypt, being linked to Asia, also saw from very early times an influx of lighter-skinned, non-African peoples, who settled there, intermingled with the local people or drove them out. From Egyptian history we have clear evidence that northern Egypt was periodically settled by peoples of non-African origin, who invaded from the north or east. For example, during the Second Intermediate period (ca. 1700-1580 BC), all of northern Egypt and much of the eastern Mediterranean and coastal Palestine (modern Israel) was under the control of the so-called Hyksos kings. The word "Hyksos" comes from an Egyptian word meaning "rulers from foreign lands." These people were of Near Eastern origin and maintained their capital Avaris in the Nile Delta. Recent excavations at Avaris (modern Tell ed-Daba'a), have even revealed remains of a palace decorated in the style of those on Crete! This has suggested to the excavator, Dr. Manfred Bietak of the University of Vienna, the strong presence there of Minoan (Cretan) royalty. This palace appears to date to the period soon after the Egyptian king Ahmose drove the Hyksos into Palestine about 1550 BC. It is thought possibly to have belonged to a Minoan princess sent to marry the Egyptian king. Obviously she and her servants from Crete would have been very light-skinned. On the other hand, there were also certainly black-skinned people in the Delta at the same time. Nubian pottery has been found in one area of Tell ed-Daba'a, which strongly suggests that Nubian troops were also living there in large numbers. Black people were probably also living on Crete and mainland Greece at the same time, for at Pylos in Greece black-skinned warriors wearing contemporary Cretan and Mycenaean Greek armor are depicted in the palace frescoes, suggesting that African troops were being used not only by the Egyptian king but also by his European counterparts across the sea.

The Book of Exodus reveals that during the time of the 19th Dynasty (ca. 1300-1200 BC), northern Egypt was a land full of Hebrew and Western Asiatic nomad settlers. Proof that the northern Egyptians at that time probably did not look very different from the Hebrews is revealed by the fact that Pharaoh's daughter could take the baby Moses from the basket on the river and bring him up as her own. The Egyptian royal family of Dynasty 19, which came from the Delta, appears in art as light-skinned. Likewise, the rulers of Dynasties 22, 23, and 26, which were of "Libyan" ancestry, were probably also light-skinned like their Berber forbears. By Dynasty 26 (ca. 650-525 B.C.) the Delta had also become a magnet for the Greeks, who began to settle there in large numbers. Herodotus says that King Amasis of Dynasty 26 even had a Greek wife. With the Ptolemies and Romans, more Europeans moved into Egypt, adding an even stronger dose of north Mediterranean genetic influence.

As one moves further south along the Nile people become darker in complexion. In Upper Egypt, the people typically are much darker than in northern Egypt. In Nubia, they become darker still, and in the southern Sudan, people are much darker than the Nubians. African-Americans, however, might describe all of these people as "black" (as a label of their claims to ancestry or ethnic affiliation with them). The term "black", however, does not really help us to distinguish these people, for they look quite different from each other.

The same ethnic situation that exists today in the Nile Valley seems to have existed in antiquity, for all the same physical features and skin colors visible today in Egypt and Nubia can be found represented in ancient Egyptian and Nubian art. It should be stressed, however, that in no text we have from ancient Egypt is there a suggestion that anyone was judged inferior by the color of his or her skin.

While some ancient Egyptian statues and relief images indicate that one segment of the population was fairly light-skinned; other images show Egyptians with very dark brown skin. Most, however, show people with reddish brown skin, which was the Egyptians' conventional mode of coloring themselves in art. In Old Kingdom art, men were normally painted red-brown, while women were normally colored yellow. In later Theban tomb paintings, women are regularly painted red-brown, probably because in the latitude of Thebes people were darker. Based on their depictions of themselves, it is clear that the Egyptians saw themselves as generally darker than the peoples of Asia to their northeast and the peoples of Libya to their northwest, whom they colored white. They also saw themselves as lighter than the peoples of Nubia to their south, whom they traditionally colored dark brown or black.

Because Egyptians and Nubians intermingled along the southern Egyptian Nile corridor, the southern population of Egypt naturally was quite dark and many people were perhaps physically indistinguishable from the Nubians. At least as early as the Old Kingdom (ca. 2700-2200 BC), many Nubians had also come into Egypt as hired soldiers and settled there easily. Many intermingled with the Egyptian population throughout the length of the country, since we know that Nubian soldiers were also very early employed by the pharaohs to help them fight their wars in Asia. A number of Egyptian funerary stelae (grave stones) belonging to Nubian warriors are known, and a few reveal that the owners married Egyptian women.

Several of the wives of Theban king Mentuhotep II of Dynasty 11 (ca. 2061-2010 BC) are shown with black painted skin, perhaps revealing their southern Egyptian or Nubian origin, while their ladies-in-waiting are shown with yellow painted skin, perhaps suggesting their northern origin.


By one Egyptian tradition the mother of the founder of Dynasty 12, Amenemhet I (ca. 1991-1962 BC), was said to be a "woman of Ta-Seti" or Lower Nubia, meaning that the dynasty was of partly Nubian origin. In Dynasty 18 (ca. 1550-1307 BC), the kings are known to have had harems of wives from all over the known world; the origins of the great queens, Tiye and Nefertiti, however, remain a subject of controversy.

The royal letters found at Tell el-Amarna, ancient Akhetaten, capital of King Akhenaten (ca. 1353-1335 BC), reveal that the pharaoh deployed garrisons of Nubian troops ("men of Kush") in his cities in Asia, such as Sidon and Tyre and Jeruslaem. We can thus be certain that some of these troops fathered children with some of the local women, so that many Canaanites would ultimately have had some African ancestry. Biblical texts (like II Samuel 18: 19-33) also indicate that Kushites lived at the court of King David, that Pharaoh Seshonq I (ca. 945-924 BC) employed Kushite troops in his sack of Jerusalem (ca. 925 BCE), and that the army of Pharaoh Osorkon II (ca. 924-909 BC) in Judah was led by a Kushite general named Zerah.


While it is clear that many Egyptians and many of the early Egyptian kings were very dark-skinned (we would say "black"), it would be a mistake to assume that every statue painted pure black was intended to indicate that the owner's skin was literally "black." The color black had other meanings for the Egyptians that it no longer has for us. Black - actually dark grey - was the color of Nile silt and was associated with fertility; thus the Nile Valley and Egypt became the "Black Land" (Kemi or Kemet) after the inundation, just as the desert was the "Red Land" (Djeseret). Because of its associations, black was thus identified with Osiris, the god of fertility, as was the color green. In his images Osiris' skin is often painted black or green.


Since Osiris was the god of regeneration (after death) and god of the underworld, and since all people, when they died, believed they would become Osiris, they often commissioned mummy masks of themselves painted with black or green faces. After death a person was even called "Osiris so-and-so." Images of the same people, representing themselves in life, however, are painted with red-brown skin color.


If the statues and relief images of Mentuhotep II (ca. 2061-2010 BC) normally represent the king with red-brown skin, one famous statue of him in the Cairo Museum is painted black. Queen Ahmose-Nofretari of Dynasty 18 is always shown black in her role as patron goddess of the Theban cemetery, but when she was shown in her role as queen, she was colored red-brown. In these cases, the black color did not indicate that they had literally "black" skin (which is never really black) but rather the ability to come to life again. Despite this, there is no question that many ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, had very dark skin, which Americans would call "black." One Egyptian statue in the Louvre shows a man with dark choclatey brown skin, which probably acurately depicts his true skin color. There is also clear evidence that the black skin of Osiris was understood in different ways even in ancient times. By the first century BC, for example, the Greek historian Diodorus reported a legend that Osiris, the mythical first king of Egypt, was really a Nubian and that he had come from the south to colonize Egypt. This tradition would surely have been encouraged by his traditional black skin color.
It is also interesting to observe how skin color is treated on the small twin images of King Tutankhamun on one side of the cartouche-shaped box, found in his tomb, now in the Cairo Museum. Here the king is shown twice, squatting like a child sun god with a sun disk on his head. The figures face each other, and they have skin color created by inlays of yellowish stone or glass. The figure on the left is entirely yellow; that on the right has an inlaid black face, while his exposed arm and leg remain yellow. Almost certainly this symbolized the king's imagined day and night aspects as he traveled daily with the sun god in his divine boat in the sky over the earth and through the river of the underworld. Neither of these skin tones represented his real skin color. This was probably accurately indicated by the artists who created his magnificent portrait bust, which shows him as a typical Upper Egyptian boy with reddish-brown skin.


The Egyptians recognized that peoples darker and different from themselves - and different from each other - dwelt beyond them to the south. Initially, in Dynasty 11-12 (ca. 2040-1783 BC), it was the Lower Nubian mercenary troops who figure in Egyptian art. These men were shown with black-painted skin but they had features indistinguishable from the Egyptians, who were painted uniformly with red brown skin.

As more Egyptian expeditions were sent deeper into Nubia, other peoples began to appear in Egyptian art with more markedly central African features, hairstyles, and characteristics. That Egyptian explorers penetrated the Sudan to a great distance at this period is suggested by the contemporary carved ivory group, preserved in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo, which was used as a child's toy. It represents three pygmy men, which could be made to dance when a string was pulled. To the Egyptians, these people were the "horizon dwellers", who were seen only once in many generations. They were famed among the Egyptians for their dancing, and when any of these people were brought to Egypt, they were made to perform "the dances of the gods." They would no doubt have come from the extreme reaches of the Upper Nile tributaries and the northern Congo area.
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Mike you're a damn idiot
Both pictures show the exact same Menkaure the second one at a slightly more upward angle

No manipulations as in your paranoid conspiracy theory fantasy land

As has been demonstrated with Khafre, a person can look nearly of a different type depending solely
on the angle the picture was taken.

But people like you purposely look for poor quality blurry photos in lighting conditions with more shadows, one of your many BS techniques
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Yes Lioness, you are famous for your honest evaluations and fine perceptive abilities.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
kenndo - Hey guy, haven't heard from you in a long time. After reading your quote below, I'm thinking that it has not been long enough.

Obviously you have not been keeping up with the forum, because that nonsense which came out of you ignorant mouth, has been debunked many times, by many people.

In northern Egypt, as in all of North Africa along the Mediterranean, most people are light-skinned not because Arabs or Europeans settled there but because the indigenous North African Berbers were light-skinned. Northern Egypt, being linked to Asia, also saw from very early times an influx of lighter-skinned, non-African peoples, who settled there, intermingled with the local people or drove them out.


This is your bullsh1t, I challenge you to back it up!
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] Brada my man - I'm not picking on you, but the surprise is that YOU were surprised!

I mean, did you really think that an Egyptian King could REALLY look like THIS????


Ramesses II
Turin Museum
(note the neck line)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
kenndo - Hey guy, haven't heard from you in a long time. After reading your quote below, I'm thinking that it has not been long enough.

Obviously you have not been keeping up with the forum, because that nonsense which came out of you ignorant mouth, has been debunked many times, by many people.

In northern Egypt, as in all of North Africa along the Mediterranean, most people are light-skinned not because Arabs or Europeans settled there but because the indigenous North African Berbers were light-skinned. Northern Egypt, being linked to Asia, also saw from very early times an influx of lighter-skinned, non-African peoples, who settled there, intermingled with the local people or drove them out.


This is your bullsh1t, I challenge you to back it up!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
This why you are perceived by most people on this site as a rude ranting lunatic

---

.





 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:
this a article from tim kendall.look i have some problems with the man too,and i knew someone will bring this up,oh did not have a chance to make my point clear on this.we know know that all berbers of north africa are not white,BUT MANY ARE.

Who are they, where are they to be found, and where did they come from?


over time i think there is no denying that white skin types came into northern egyptFROM THE NORTHWEST OF EGYPT,FROM THENORTH AND NORTHEAST OF EGYPT before the greek period unless you do not believe that.

I also don't believe in the tooth fairy, which is about the same thing. Funny thing though, most people understand that the tooth fairy is fantasy, yet somehow mythical White people traipsing around Africa, of which there is absolutely no artifact or evidence, is somehow believable - go figure.

the question is if the type became the major group in lower egypt before the greeks took egypt.there is still heavy debate on that,but i will not give ground when it comes upper egypt.it's clear this region remain mostly black until the middle ages and this is where most egyptians lived at in early times .
so most ancient egyptian were still black africans.look i believe that the first egyptians were black,but has time when on,they became black and white,ethnically speaking i do not think all were black,but most were still black and the civilization was still black african.that is why if someone ask me if egyptians were black,i tend to say most of them.

that's my point of view. I will leave it at that.

Well you are certainly entitled to your beliefs, as long as you clearly identify them as such. However portraying your beliefs as fact, is not okay.

In the future, if you should decide that holding to your "Opinion" is insufficient for personal growth, and might want to actually know something of that which you speak. May I suggest these Country Studies at the U.S. library of Congress. They are not as in-depth as I would like, but they do cover the ground. BTW - you will find that the studies are Phantom White people free.


http://countrystudies.us/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:

Your theory that all Egyptians were black is especially ludicrous. If you knew anything about slavery in ancient Egypt you would know that foreign captives were often used for slaves. And slaves could be freed by any number of ways and become a part of Egyptian society. They could even inherit their masters estates if it was the wish of their master. Or marry a free person and become freed themselves.

This would have undoubtedly led to a multi-racial society similar to what you see in America today.

---

LMAO And exactly how could the theory (actually FACT) of all Egyptians being black be ludicrous when Egypt is in Africa and all Egyptology shows it was peopled by and its civilization built by indigenous Africans?? LOL Don't lecture me about how slaves were treated in Egypt. Again, the fact that slaves could be freed and move up in society actually reflects the same practice of slavery in other African societies including those in Sub-Sahara. This was different from the chattel slavery practiced in contemporary Europe such as Greece where slaves had no rights even to their own bodies. That blacks began in Egyptian society as slaves only to intermarry with their (white?) masters is as absurd as your claims of henna used as sunblock! LMAO Get the F**k outta here with that b.s.

Egypt is IN Africa, Egypt IS African, and so were its people! Get over it! Stop being obsessed with and consumed by an African culture you nor your ancestors have nothing to do with, especially if you're so bigoted against the actual people who do-- black Africans.

---

You claim that ancient Egypt was completely black and then admit that slaves could be freed and move up in society. This represents a serious contradiction if ancient Egypt had other than only black slaves. Unless of course you are suggesting that Egypt only had black slaves. Or perhaps freedom and position were only granted to black slaves.

In the case of the latter wouldn't that mean that the Egyptians were biased concerning the color of skin? Do you have any evidence of this?
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Ghana,Mali,and a whole host of other African Civilization had slaves,sometimes foreign white slaves,the fact still remains that Kemetians did not use slaves to build religious buildings,go to Tour Egypt or some other other site other than Stormfrontin or Arguewithidiots or better yet pick up a damn book!! sheesh!!
 

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Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
 



Psychosis (from the Greek ψυχή "psyche", for mind/soul, and -ωσις "-osis", for abnormal condition) means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality".

People suffering from psychosis are described as Psychotic.
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:
this a article from tim kendall.look i have some problems with the man too,and i knew someone will bring this up,oh did not have a chance to make my point clear on this.we know know that all berbers of north africa are not white,BUT MANY ARE.

Who are they, where are they to be found, and where did they come from?


over time i think there is no denying that white skin types came into northern egyptFROM THE NORTHWEST OF EGYPT,FROM THENORTH AND NORTHEAST OF EGYPT before the greek period unless you do not believe that.

I also don't believe in the tooth fairy, which is about the same thing. Funny thing though, most people understand that the tooth fairy is fantasy, yet somehow mythical White people traipsing around Africa, of which there is absolutely no artifact or evidence, is somehow believable - go figure.

the question is if the type became the major group in lower egypt before the greeks took egypt.there is still heavy debate on that,but i will not give ground when it comes upper egypt.it's clear this region remain mostly black until the middle ages and this is where most egyptians lived at in early times .
so most ancient egyptian were still black africans.look i believe that the first egyptians were black,but has time when on,they became black and white,ethnically speaking i do not think all were black,but most were still black and the civilization was still black african.that is why if someone ask me if egyptians were black,i tend to say most of them.

that's my point of view. I will leave it at that.

Well you are certainly entitled to your beliefs, as long as you clearly identify them as such. However portraying your beliefs as fact, is not okay.

In the future, if you should decide that holding to your "Opinion" is insufficient for personal growth, and might want to actually know something of that which you speak. May I suggest these Country Studies at the U.S. library of Congress. They are not as in-depth as I would like, but they do cover the ground. BTW - you will find that the studies are Phantom White people free.


http://countrystudies.us/

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:
believe what you what to believe,but going extreme is not helping your cause.I guess Chancellor Williams work on egypt AND HOW WHITES GOT IN is abit out of date for you.

[/b]The contributions, or lack of contributions, from graduates of Black American colleges is an entirely different discussion. Suffice to say that things that they took for granted, because it came from White folks, should NOT have been taken for granted.[/b]

My main point is whites got into egypt in ancient times.it does not matter if they got in early civil war periods,or late period,they got in.they help weaken egypt over time and settled mostly in northern egypt.I WISH THEY DID NOT GET IN at all,but a few did.you can't deny that whites were in egypt before the greek period.IT'S CLEAR THEY Were.

This is quite different from the nonsense of non-Black Berbers. Yes, Egyptian history is quite clear that Dorian Greeks invaded the Libyan city of Cyrene circa 590 B.C. It is also clear that at that time, Greek mercenaries were a large part of the Egyptian military - when their participation began is not clear. But we do know that this was a time when the White Greeks were expanding across the Mediterranean.


THEY CAME,AND YOU FORGET THAT THERE WERE SOME OF THE SEA FOLKS WHO SETTLE IN EGYPT after thier defeat. some groups of whites from northern libya.

Kenno try a little common sense here. Whites have just successfully invaded Europe. Why would they now FLEE Europe? Hint: they didn't, it was the defeated Blacks who fled.

assyrians,persians,some of these came into egypt before the greeks.most of them were white.if you do not believe they were not,that's your problem .
there were white berbers that came into egypt who became egyptians.I HAVE NO PROBLEM IF UPDATED STUDIES SAY most northern egyptians remain black,but all were black?or all of northern egypt remain black until 332b.c.

Back to White boy fairy tales again I see. No kenndo, there were no White Assyrians, Persians, Berbers, or Egyptians. Basically what you are doing here is being a spoiled White Brat wailing: I WANT A WHITE HISTORY, I WANT A WHITE HISTORY. That fact that there are NO FACTS to substantiate it, is of no concern to you, all you know is that I WANT A WHITE HISTORY.

kenndo, did it ever occur to you, that instead of reading outdated books, you might want to actually research these ancient civilizations. You didn't bother to read the material at the library of Congress, did you.

that's non-sense and extreme,and this is coming from a afro-centric/africanist person,but i am not a super extreme one. i DO not claim all greeks were black,or claim everybody in bible was black,or claim all hebrews were etc etc.
THERE WERE many african groups that you could say that were all black,but egypt was not one of them.they once were,but that was too far in the past,so you could start by saying it that way if you want to tell the origins ,but by the time the new kingdom ended,it will be hard to say that when it comes to egypt,so let's put it that way.

you have to put in in context in other words.a time line.


I just do not believe all egyptian were black,and it's not a believe,it's fact,but i will never say most were not black.it's clear most egyptians were black.

my main problem is whites should have never got that far in the first place coming in large numbers like that in roman or greek times and few over time earlier.

black egyptians did have white slaves like it or not.these folks did become egyptians even if the black masses did not see them has such.

there were white egyptians.does not matter if they became the major group in northern egypt or not.
They were there.
THE OTHER POINT IS THAT they were not the major group in egypt,blacks were.

If you want to believe all egypt was all black before alex got in,then that's your problem.a few were there at least.going extreme and saying none was there,is extreme. I wish EVEN LESS OR none were there,because egypt would have stand a better chance LATER.

Actually that's not what I said, you are projecting

MOVING ON.

---

 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
kenndo - What you fail to understand, is that the influx of Whites into the ancient civilized world, can be traced with reasonable accuracy. There is no need to assume or to mystify it.


EGYPT

Concerning the first Greeks in Egypt. I would certainly not tell you to take Herodotus as the ultimate source, but he does give a benchmark as to how and when the Greeks themselves saw their entry into Egypt. (Remember these Herodotus books were intended for Greeks - so THEY believed it to be true).


The Persian Wars
by Herodotus
Book 2 - EUTERPE
(2:152)
Psammetichus (Psamtik I - 664 B.C.) sent to the city of Buto, where there is an oracle of Latona, the most veracious of all the oracles of the Egyptians, and having inquired concerning means of vengeance, received for answer that "Vengeance would come from the sea, when brazen men should appear." Great was his incredulity when this answer arrived, for never, he thought, would brazen men arrive to be his helpers. However, not long afterwards certain Carians and Ionians who had left their country on a voyage of plunder, were carried by stress of weather to Egypt where they disembarked, all equipped in their brazen armour, and were seen by the natives, one of whom carried the tidings to Psammetichus, and, as he had never before seen men clad in brass, he reported that brazen men had come from the sea and were plundering the plain. Psammetichus, perceiving at once that the oracle was accomplished, made friendly advances to the strangers, and engaged them, by splendid promises, to enter into his service. He then, with their aid and that of the Egyptians who espoused his cause, attacked the eleven and vanquished them.

See? It's just plain history. No need to dig your heels in, or to take the word of anyone, or to treat it as religion, where you declare, "I believe". None of that is necessary, just research and READ!


 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Geez kenndo, I saved you from a life as a "Tea Bagger". Going through life spouting nonsense about things that you had not a clue. Now you have a better way of approaching things, and a better way of thinking. I even taught you a little history, and not even a thank you. What an ingrate.
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
me a tea bagger? keep dreaming buddy.the other stuff you said,non-sense.i do look for whites in african history and i am not a integrationist,but i think you are.besides it's alright to know what other groups were up too or what they were doing at times,but the point is not the have them has your main focus.whites in african history is not my main focus,blacks are.if whites happen to be there,like egyptian fighting the persians,then there is no choice but to read about them.

example if you are making a movie about egyptians fighting the sea folks,then you have really no choive but to show white,unless you want to do the same has whites who make movies and lie about that history.

Anyway way most of the egyptians were black so if you make movie or tv show,MOST OR ALL THE FOCUS WOULD BE ON THE BLACKS ANYWAY,just like most or all focus would be on whites in greece,of course depending on the time period.

I was always interested in africa and black history for a long time, I mention this a long time ago here.
If you can't profile me PROPERLY,do not attempt to do it at all.

IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT Persians,GREEKS, ECT.. WERE BLACK,AND NOT MOSTLY WHITE,THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. Persians or assyrians were white invaders,like it or not.accept,learn from,and move on.your problem is that you are looking whites in history and you want to turn them black,i don't.


Like it or not a few whites were in egypt,if they BECAME APART OF EGYPT or not there WERE THERE before the greeks came in.To mention that whites were IN EGYPT before the greeks came in,does not make it outdated or that much outdated,it's still fact.

Chancellor Williams and cheik anta diop basically still got it right when it come to egyptian history.anyway i read african history to know what black africans have done,not whites,but if whites were there in certain time periods has slaves,invaders etc.. i still want to know about it ,but they are not a main focus.

anyway saying whites were not in egypt before the greeks came in is dead wrong,like it or not.

I WOULD prefer just showing only blacks in egypt only in movies or if thier was a show,and if had to be whites had to be shown,i would want to see them has being defeated or has slaves.once in a while i do not mind showing whites in egypt if they came in a certain time period and became apart of egypt,in a minor role or has slaves.


anyway egyptian civilization was african for along time and most were black right until the middle ages,but you can't deny whites were their before later whites came in,like the greeks.

If you are not happy with my reply,to bad.i just have a funny feeling you just want to go on just to go on.ego problem i guess.


That's i have to say about that.
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
one,more thing i am truthcentric,and afro-centric/africanist.you can be both without telling lies.to pretent no whites came in to egypt later in history before the greeks came in is just lies and silly.i really do not accept them has egyptian,but like it or not a few were egyptians,or at least a few lived in the country. I would prefer none were egyptians and none living there if i had it my way.
I SAID WHAT i had to say and gave a good link for simple girl.you should at least thank me.


I AM leaving this thread,because i am in no mood to go on and on.
I have very little patience these days.
bye.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:


IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT Persians,GREEKS, ECT.. WERE BLACK,AND NOT MOSTLY WHITE,THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. Persians or assyrians were white invaders,like it or not.accept,learn from,and move on.your problem is that you are looking whites in history and you want to turn them black,i don't.

---

Take it easy kenndo, I was just teasing to get a rise out of you. I know that people like you will not be swayed by any amount of data, fact, or artifact, that's why I call you a "Tea Bagger". You believe what you WANT to believe, regardless of it's veracity. And when you are challenged to support your "Belief" you simply cite someone else who also has no proof.

And that's okay, but remember, I patrol these pages. And when someone like you, comes along spouting the White Mans bullsh1t, I respond with FACTS AND ARTIFACTS.

So in response to the nonsense you said above.

These Niggers would kick your Dumb Ass if you said that to them!





 

---

Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
edited-
YOU SPEAK NON-SENSE and THOSE TWO PICs,those were whites.persians today are basically the same has the persians who invaded egypt and the assyrians in basic phenotype.anyway that's your problem if you do not believe the facts.

Chancellor Williams and cheik anta diop are not white.they are great african men.you need to learn from them.has you know i do not spout white bull crap.If you really knew me in real life you would not say that,but i believe you maybe a FBI AGENT,AND WE KNOW HOW THAT WORKS.


Foreginers in Egypt[Past and present]

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000648


__________________________________________
oh,mike instead of wasting to much time over here.you may want to see this.


this is the forum i got ban at because i dare to say egyptians or most of them were black and king tut was a black person.if you join ,good luck.

Were the Ancient Egyptians black?

http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5420


MY LAST COMMENT ONE MORE TIME BY THE WAY

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:
one,more thing i am truthcentric,and afro-centric/africanist.you can be both without telling lies.to pretent no whites came in to egypt later in history before the greeks came in is just lies and silly.i really do not accept them has egyptian,but like it or not a few were egyptians,or at least a few lived in the country. I would prefer none were egyptians and none living there if i had it my way.
I SAID WHAT i had to say and gave a good link for simple girl.you should at least thank me.


I AM leaving this thread,because i am in no mood to go on and on.
I have very little patience these days.
bye.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:


These Niggers would kick your Dumb Ass if you said that to them!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:
edited-
YOU SPEAK NON-SENSE and THOSE TWO PICs,those were whites.persians today are basically the same has the persians who invaded egypt and the assyrians in basic phenotype.anyway that's your problem if you do not believe the facts.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Mike's dream is to be Persian


-btw the original Turks were black then they had some albino babies who ran off into the forest and formed a club

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
Expert Says Nefertiti Bust Is a Fake
AOL

(May 5) - A Swiss art historian says the famous bust of Queen Nefertiti, believed to be 3,400 years old, is in fact a copy from 1912...

An overlay over the black Nefertiti original bust beneath...


This fake Tetisheri statue (with its facial features resembling most Europeans) was showcased in the British Museum
special exhibit on forgeries in 1990, but not before this forgery fooled experts and deceived the world for 100 years...


The Ra-Hotep and Nofret statues are seated in strange chairs with backboards and Mdw Ntr
writing near their head. These statues are among the greatest forgeries in the history of
ancient African archaeology. --Prof. Manu Ampim


Hemiunu - miraculous restored with a European, very non-Ancient Egyptian head...


Regardless of who defaced the visage of this Black African sphinx, National
Geographic gives us the image of a European with a tan, like the one in Vegas...


Once again, National Geographic continues with its distortions by taking the image of the
Black African king on the left and giving us the image of 'Boy George' with a tan...


but, alas, some were missed...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
In 671 BC Esarhaddon went to war against Pharaoh Taharqa of Egypt. Part of his army stayed behind to deal with rebellions in Tyre. The remainder went south to Rapihu, then crossed the Sinai, and entered Egypt. In the summer he took Memphis, and Taharqa fled to Upper Egypt. Esarhaddon now called himself "king of Egypt, Patros and Kush", and returned with rich booty from the cities of the delta; he erected a victory stele at this time, showing the son of Taharqa in bondage, Prince Ushankhuru. Almost as soon as the king left, Egypt rebelled against Assyrian rule.

_______________________________________


Mike, call me crazy but somehow I don't think Wally think the Persians were Black

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HERU:
From the 18th-21st centuries researchers from Eurasia have looked for clever ways to transform a
Saharan civilization into something foreign to its shores.

I suspect another tactic they've used is taking artifacts from the Hellenistic period
and passing them off as representative of much earlier periods.

Perception is everything, and it all comes together in
these vainglory attempts to Victorianize Ancient Egypt.

---

 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Some call it "White Boys" Dreaming.
 

---

Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^Some call it "White Boys" Dreaming.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^Some call it "White Boys" Dreaming.

---

Oh come on Mike. There's nobody dreaming but you and a few others.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HERU:
From the 18th-21st centuries researchers from Eurasia have looked for clever ways to transform a
Saharan civilization into something foreign to its shores.

I suspect another tactic they've used is taking artifacts from the Hellenistic period
and passing them off as representative of much earlier periods.

Perception is everything, and it all comes together in
these vainglory attempts to Victorianize Ancient Egypt.

---

 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
^ Keep dreaming Mike. Wally is posting tomb paintings of Egyptian slaves and/or servants.

---

Ah, I sensed in another thread that in desperation you had taken on a persona identical to Lioness. Having found that you cannot argue logically with facts or artifacts, you have decided to annoy with asinine questions and statements.

This is definitely a defeat for White feminists everywhere. Just look at Jari and Gigantic, they have gotten their butts kicked just as badly as you have, and for longer. But like real troopers, they just keep plugging away. Yes, often they do get stupid too, but not like you and lioness. No question about it, Men are tougher - even Albino men.
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
"We Are in 2010 Many tend to deny the evidence that they were all Blacks!"

( "They" being the Pharaohs/ the Nobility/ the benevolent gods/ the Nobility/ the Ruling class... )









-- from
http://www.shenoc.com/tous_des_noirs.htm
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
...first order is to mutilate and to desecrate an image that can't be hidden in the basement
of a museum for 'reconstruction'...

then with the ones that you can, you give them a new nose job

However this pseudo-Nordic nose placed on Khafre in order to make him appear as "Hans"
doesn't reconcile itself with the other images of Khafre...


 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
Khafra is a fraud? The Head of Amenhotep I must be a fraud too.


 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralman:
Khafra is a fraud? The Head of Amenhotep I must be a fraud too.

---

More frauds:

Amenemhat III


Amenhotep I


Userkaf


Thutmose III

 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralman:
Khafra is a fraud? The Head of Amenhotep I must be a fraud too.

---

You know Spiralman, it never fails to amaze me, how busts of Africans always look so different from reliefs of Africans.




I mean, right off the bat, you can see that in the relief, Amenhotep I has lips, and on the bust he has none.

Same thing with Nefertiti, did you notice that too?

Wow, how weird, it's like the busts and the reliefs were done by different people at vastly different times.

How fortunate we are to know that the Albinos and Sand Niggers who have held and controlled these artifacts for hundreds of years, are above changing them in any way to accomplish racist or political ends.
 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
Another fraud

Head of Sesostris III



 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralman:
Khafra is a fraud? The Head of Amenhotep I must be a fraud too.

---

You know Spiralman, it never fails to amaze me, how busts of Africans always look so different from reliefs of Africans.




I mean, right off the bat, you can see that in the relief, Amenhotep I has lips, and on the bust he has none.

Same thing with Nefertiti, did you notice that too?

Wow, how weird, it's like the busts and the reliefs were done by different people at vastly different times.

How fortunate we are to know that the Albinos and Sand Niggers who have held and controlled these artifacts for hundreds of years, are above changing them in any way to accomplish racist or political ends.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralman:
Why didn't they alter the features on the reliefs???

Why weren't they altered? The reliefs in museums are just as much as an artifact as the busts and sculptures.

---

That's kind of a dumb question Spiralman. You don't need to be an artist to know that modifying a painting or a relief, is a lot harder than simply removing or adding material to a statue.


___________________________________________________


And here is the really stupid part: the Albinos DON'T COORDINATE their modifications.

So that HERE;

Amenhotep I has a very NARROW nose.



.

And HERE, he has a big BULBOUS Nose.
It's hard to tell which is the most incompetent, you Albinos, or your Sand Niggers.


 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
He,he, that's a real tough one to explain, isn't it Spiralman?

But don't worry, lioness will be along soon. I'm sure she will have some totally off-the-wall explanation that will give us all a good laugh.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
BTW Spiralman;

You do understand, that if there is a hell, you Albinos, and your Sand Nigger Turks, will burn there for desecrating the works of the ancients. They left these things as a memorial to who THEY were, and what THEY had done. Not as props for you Albino people to create your lies-as-history.
 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
How do you know they were modified? The head of Amenhotep I doesn't look modified to me.

Who are you to say if the big bulbous nose wasn't modified? What's wrong with narrow noses, don't black Africans possess the highest diversity?

Here is another sculpture of Amenhotep I



Clearly modified.
 

---

Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
 
AmenhotepI-StatueHead_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston


 

---

Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
 


Head of Sesostris III
 

---

Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
 
Head of Amenemhat III


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

However this pseudo-Nordic nose placed on Khafre in order to make him appear as "Hans"
doesn't reconcile itself with the other images of Khafre...[/b]

---

the above Khephren (Khafre) is the same sculpture as these two photos of same sculpture below, notice broken arm showing Wally is stupid





_________________________________________________

Below is a different Khephren (Khafre) , different type of stone, with unbroken arm, body with shorter mid-section-stomach area




Wally stop being a dope both statues are 100% authentic




Illustration (photos) from Cheikh Anta Diop's book


same Ramses II as left photo above ,again below



Diop approved




Ramses


Wally, stop the nonsense you call whatever you like fake with no evidence.
Different ancient Egyptian artists depicted the same Pharaoh in different ways. Deal with it.
Some artists probably made the Pharaoh look like slightly more like they themselves the artist but still more like the Pharaoh or more like other Pharaohs.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
[

And HERE, he has a big BULBOUS Nose.
It's hard to tell which is the most incompetent, you Albinos, or your Sand Niggers.[/b]

[/QB]

---

Mike, you are the incompetent one, I'm not saying Amenhotep was black or white but the term "bulbous" is applied to a type of white people's noses as shown below in a "damn your stupid" example below:



Actor Karl Malden




Andy Rooney, CBS News




W.C. Fields


Mike, you are such a fool, you go on and on that white peoples are albinos with no other different physical traits just that they lost skin pigmentation and her you are talking about bulbous noses. That makes no logical sense.
You try to promote this albinos theory yet your website is loaded with unpainted stone sculptures that you cherry pick because they have broader features. You are such a fraud
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^You Albinos are so frigging stupid that once you get into your fantasy projecting, logic and common sense are completely lost to you.

Earth to fantasizing Albinos: Amenhotep I was an Egyptian KING.

The people making his image in paintings, reliefs and statues knew EXACTLY what he looked like. To have created an image that didn't look like him would be cause for death - He was a deified god/king you friggin, make-believing ass-holes!

Therefore, there is absolutely no way that his image would have been rendered in these mutually exclusive ways. They're ALL DIFFERENT idiots!!!!

I know Albinos have wiring problems, but come-on, even you must be able to understand the stupidity of what you claim.








 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

The people making his image in paintings, reliefs and statues knew EXACTLY what he looked like. To have created an image that didn't look like him would be cause for death - He was a deified god/king you friggin, make-believing ass-holes!

Therefore, there is absolutely no way that his image would have been rendered in these mutually exclusive ways. They're ALL DIFFERENT idiots!!!!

---

You know nothing about Egyptian art. To the ancient Egyptians making a strict likeness was not important in a lot of the statuary. If there are several different statues or reliefs of a person that doesn't mean a moron can then step in and arbitrarily say I like this one's features therefore it is authentic I don't like this other one's features therefore it is fake.
Add to this the same sculpture photographed at different angles can look different, you dope.

Add to this, again, this whole questioning of the features is completely contradictory to your idiot albino theory, so why do you keep contradicting yourself?


 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:


You know nothing about Egyptian art. To the ancient Egyptians making a strict likeness was not important in a lot of the statuary. If there are several different statues or reliefs of a person that doesn't mean a moron can then step in and arbitrarily say I like this one's features therefore it is authentic I don't like this other one's features therefore it is fake.
Add to this the same sculpture photographed at different angles can look different, you dope.

---

Lioness, You are an ES troll, and a stupid one at that. Rather than going into the stupidity of your claim: I would ask you to present statements from someone with a brain with similar thoughts.

And by way of explanation for other idiots like you.
The reason that the statues all look different, is not because, as you stupidly claim - they didn't care - damn, just repeating it makes me cringe from it's stupidity.

Rather, the reason the statues all look different, is because they were all INDEPENDENTLY modified, by DIFFERENT people, at DIFFERENT times. With no regard for the ORIGINAL appearance of the king, because that didn't matter. What mattered was making him look as Albino as possible!

And as I said earlier, if there is a hell, you Albinos and Sand Nigger Turks should burn there for your desecration's of these ancient works.
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
Rather, the reason the statues all look different, is because they were all INDEPENDENTLY modified, by DIFFERENT people, at DIFFERENT times. With no regard for the ORIGINAL appearance of the king, because that didn't matter. What mattered was making him look as Albino as possible!

You are a clown, Stupid ass according to your albino theory whites are melaninin less blacks, and whites are tropically adapted and have tropical features, so clown how can someone make the statues look "Albino" if Whites have the same damn features as blacks and are tropical like blacks.

In one breath whites and blacks have the same features in the same breath they don't.

Nothing but a clown, I know you understand Lioness' point and I know you see how blatantly you contradict yourself, but you are a fraud so I doubt you even care what bullsh@t spews out of your filthy mouth.

Shut the F#ck us already...

Dumb peice of rat ****.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Being a "Supposed" Christian, you know what's in store for you when you meet your maker because of these desecration's.
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
With all the Hate, ignorance and violence you incite and advocate toward white people, Im sure you will be burning in hell along with me you sap sucking son of a bitch...

Im glad Lioness has exposed your contradictions, which is so typical of you.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Such language from a "Good" Christian: Shame!
 

---

Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
 
Nefertari

Must be a fake.
 

---

Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 
Interesting thread.

How does one explain the discrepancy in appearance. How do you go from representations that look like modern indigenous Egyptians to ones that look like modern French people of the same person?

One explaination comes to mind and that is these are deity representations. How many variations of Jesus is there in our society?

The most authentic representations of these Egpytian nobles would be in their tombs. The rest are far more likely to be made up images or simply fakes.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Interesting thread.

How does one explain the discrepancy in appearance. How do you go from representations that look like modern indigenous Egyptians to ones that look like modern French people of the same person?

One explaination comes to mind and that is these are deity representations. How many variations of Jesus is there in our society?

The most authentic representations of these Egpytian nobles would be in their tombs. The rest are far more likely to be made up images or simply fakes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralbrains:

Nefertari

Must be a fake.

---

It's not, but it's obvious the paint is faded off.

Here are more portraits from her tomb where the paint is better preserved.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Maler_der_Grabkammer_der_Nefertari_002.jpg





You guys should not engage in a silly argument about which pieces are fake and which are real based on features or how much paint is left. You should all know better.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyingass:

Mike, you are the incompetent one, I'm not saying Amenhotep was black or white but the term "bulbous" is applied to a type of white people's noses as shown below in a "damn your stupid" example below:



Actor Karl Malden




Andy Rooney, CBS News




W.C. Fields


Mike, you are such a fool, you go on and on that white peoples are albinos with no other different physical traits just that they lost skin pigmentation and her you are talking about bulbous noses. That makes no logical sense.
You try to promote this albinos theory yet your website is loaded with unpainted stone sculptures that you cherry pick because they have broader features. You are such a fraud

---

You can't be talking! You're the same person who argues the converse-- that because there are portraits of people with narrow noses then they must not be black then.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
You can't be talking! You're the same person who argues the converse-- that because there are portraits of people with narrow noses then they must not be black then. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralbrains:

Nefertari

Must be a fake.

---

It's not, but it's obvious the paint is faded off.

Here are more portraits from her tomb where the paint is better preserved.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Maler_der_Grabkammer_der_Nefertari_002.jpg





You guys should not engage in a silly argument about which pieces are fake and which are real based on features or how much paint is left. You should all know better.

---

Your methodology is weak. Some paints fades but were you aware that a lot of brown pigments also darken
over time? Who is to say that some paint pigments have not darkened over time? You can't just go look at some pictures posted over the internet and say a given painting has faded paint or given painting has darkened paint. If you see what appears to be variation in one color you can't always assume which of the variations is true.
This type of thing has to be done by scientific analysis by art restorers using technical equipment and sample tests.
You also have the settings of the camera and the lighting conditions in which the photo was taken as well as other variables.
We can discus DNA because that type of thing has hard data that's published.
But with these paintings we are dealing with no data as to their condition. You can't just come in and because you think you see some variation in a skin tone on internet posting. Please stop doing that. It has no scientific credibility and is akin to what the freestyle eccentrics do.
Why would you even bother questioning skin tone? For example no one questions the fact that the Khosians some of whom are relatively light skinned originated in Africa.
By you saying the paint's faded without data and proper analysis, it plays into the notion that if the given skin tone was in fact that light it would call the person's nativity to Africa into question
even though that's not what you might intend.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Unlike you my methodology is not based on artwork alone, we have evidence from anthropology as well as pristine Egyptian descendants in rural Egypt that all support the fact that the typical Egyptian color was dark brown. I know this irks you, but too bad.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
It is hilarious how clowns will trot out their fantasies about ancient Egyptian features and post up white Europeans as the closest matches. Whether or not the artwork is modified or not, the whole idea that the closest features are from people 1,000 miles away in Europe is laughable and those people have no relationship to the actual features found in Egypt now or 5,000 years ago. "European" features have always been foreign to Egypt.

Case in point from current events:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3296791805/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/4989883344/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/4989883342/in/photostream/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3297642294/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3306501706/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3306504354/in/photostream/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3296820485/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahcarr/3297640416/
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ The mixture of African ancestry with recent Eurasian invader ancestry is obvious and remarked upon by many academic sources when it comes to inhabitants of the urban areas.

We all know how the more pristine folk of the rural areas look.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The mixture of African ancestry with recent Eurasian invader ancestry is obvious and remarked upon by many academic sources when it comes to inhabitants of the urban areas.

We all know how the more pristine folk of the rural areas look.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiralbrains:

Nefertari

Must be a fake.

---

It's not, but it's obvious the paint is faded off.

Here are more portraits from her tomb where the paint is better preserved.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Maler_der_Grabkammer_der_Nefertari_002.jpg

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:



The paint has not faded off but was intentionally
washed off by the restorers who say it was dirty.

---

1) If the above was washed how do you know that paint was removed and not just dirt?

2) It is very possible the above painting had become dirty. It is debatable whether or not that justifies trying to clean it or not.
Ancient paintings do become dirty over time. This is a fact. This means that colors in a painting may not be as bright and light as they were originally. There are many variables. Some pigments lighten over time others darken. This is entirely separate from dirt and dust which may accumulate on the surface and cause the painting to darken. For example, if a paint has lightened over time it may simultaneously have accumulated a layer of dirt which darkens the painting. This is common.

3) If a painting is shown on the internet in different versions the source of these versions need to be established to separate differences due to restorations and differences due to photography.

4) If such a painting was altered by environmental
conditions or by human intervention, regardless,
suppose it is either 10% lighter or 10% darker now then it was originally- are we to worry that by these variances that a
person's race is changed?

it's crazy
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Paint made by the ancients is water soluable.

Ancient paint from Saharan rock art to AE tomb art
is being washed away by photographers wanting to
enliven the colors in the case of the former to restorers
making the colors into what they wish them to be in the
case of the latter.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
It is all documented by the restoration team.

Most restorations include extensive photographs of the site before and after the restoration.

And it is from these you can see the obvious differences in color of some of these images.

http://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications/pdf_publications/art_eternity.html

Here is an example:

http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/nefertari.htm

Also, keep in mind that this tomb has been restored multiple times since its discovery.

And there are mutltiple images of nefertari in various hues. There are some where she is depicted as dark chocolate brown. Others where she is depicted as lighter brown and still others where she is depicted as pale. Now of course all the hype of the restoration and exhibition goes to those "pale" images as being "naturalistic", but this is simply hype because the brown images are just as naturalistic. Depictions of Egyptian women in various shades, even of the same person in one tomb, was normal in Egyptian art and shows that many of the colors were symbolic.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 





 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Looking at pictures is nice, but is often illusory; READING Mdu Ntr is far more enlightening and revealing...

sa re: su - hime.t wer.t < t.hor nefertiri mer t.en >

Sa Re: Great Southern royal wife < beautiful creation of and beloved of the Horus >




osiri n.su.hime.t wer.t er.neb.t ateb ateb <t.hor nefertiri n mer.t>

Great Southern royal wife of the Lord of the two Lands, Osiris < beautiful creation of and beloved of the Horus >


Legitimacy to the throne of Kemet was based upon the female line's descent from the south - "Upper Egypt."

If anyone can provide a better decipherment of the text, please feel free...
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

The paint has not faded off but was intentionally
washed off by the restorers who say it was dirty.

---

quote:

---

Thanks for this pre-restoration original. In the coming decades pre-restoration original AE art will become harder and harder to find. By next century only post-restoration doctored complexion artwork will be all that's available and the people citing them will not even know the paint job is not that of the AEs.

Now is the time to buy art books on AE published before 1963 and scan their pictures so to build a database of images as the AEs actually painted them not as Hawass and his teams of European and Egyptian painters with not a single black person among them are "restoring" them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyingdumbass:



[compared with lighter skinned Khoisan peoples]

---

quote:

---

The concept of "pristine folk" is like something Hitler would say

---

How so?? Northern Europeans are more 'pristine' in that they have the least recent African admixture than southern Europeans along the Mediterranean. Similarly, southern Egyptians especially in rural areas are more pristine Africans in that they have least recent Eurasian admixture compared to Egyptians in the urban areas of the Delta. So don't even bother trying to demonize a word or its usage because it inconveniences YOU.
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
...can't READ, so we ignore and so let's argue paintings...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
Looking at pictures is nice, but is often illusory; READING Mdu Ntr is far more enlightening and revealing...

sa re: su - hime.t wer.t < t.hor nefertiri mer t.en >

Sa Re: Great Southern royal wife < beautiful creation of and beloved of the Horus >




osiri n.su.hime.t wer.t er.neb.t ateb ateb <t.hor nefertiri n mer.t>

Great Southern royal wife of the Lord of the two Lands, Osiris < beautiful creation of and beloved of the Horus >


Legitimacy to the throne of Kemet was based upon the female line's descent from the south - "Upper Egypt."

If anyone can provide a better decipherment of the text, please feel free...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb]


[compared with lighter skinned Khoisan peoples]

---

Apparently the lying dummy can't see the traces of darker paint around the cheek, chin, arm, etc. Obviously the image was much darker, but her little black phobic mind can't accept it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

"... their skin colour ... yellow-pink" my ass!

---

Again, portraits where the paint is preserved...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Maler_der_Grabkammer_der_Nefertari_002.jpg





versus the one where the paint was lost.


 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ What's funny is that when I posted pics where the paint was fully preserved, you rebutted by saying that paintings sometimes get darker over time. This is true, however that is no reason why the photos I posted show Nefertari with a darker skin complexion especially when all other colors remain bright.

In fact the problem with Egyptian paintings is just the opposite-- portraits loose paint and become lighter over time.

The par-examplar of this is the seated scribe proudly displayed in the Cairo Museum.

before


after


There's no way getting around it you dumb liar.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
.


dimwit, you proved my point magnificently, this what a faded painting looks like


_________________________________

this is what a faded painting does not look like


__________________________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Again, portraits where the paint is preserved...


Originally posted by Djehuti:
versus the one where the paint was lost.

---

fool, the skin tone directly above matches the left figure in the painting immediately above it.
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Gold is the color of the female gods - white is the color of death
Golden skin Hathor giving the dead (white skin) Nefertiri the breath of life



The very much alive Royal Lady from the South standing before Djehuti - far right: Osiri nsu hime.t wer neb.t tawi <nefertiri t.hor n mer.t> "Royal Southern wife of Osiris the Great Lord of the Two Lands <Beautiful creation and beloved of the Horus>";......................................................................................................................................................................... .................................. playing a game of Senet (Snt)...

 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Above Hathor doesn't have white skin, it's yellow.

As for Nefertari, the skin tone in the smaller upper picture upper picture is lighter than in the lower picture. This demonstrates different paintings of the same person can have varying skin tone. point for lioness
 

---

Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Above Hathor doesn't have white skin, it's yellow.

As for Nefertari, the skin tone in the smaller upper picture upper picture is lighter than in the lower picture.
This demonstrates different paintings of the same person can have varying skin tone. point for lioness

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No, you incredibly illiterate person,


The color of Hathor on the right is gold because she is a goddess, the color of
the southern queen royal on the left is white because she's dead - a ghost - who is
being given the breath of life; being reborn by Hathor into her natural state as a living Black woman




Nefertiri was a member of the house of Horus - Het.hor
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Wally is correct. The imagery in Egyptian tombs, especially those of the royals, followed a narrative and each section represented a part of the journey to the afterlife. That is why in certain parts of the tombs the deceased, male or female, may be seen in certain pale colors, while in others they are seen in natural tones. This pattern is found in most tombs with the same person, especially females, being shown in different colors.

Unfortunately, most Western discussions on Egyptian art only focus on one or two scenes or images out of a larger tomb which causes whole bunch of confusion and distortion. The imagery has to be taken into the context of the entire tomb not just one small piece of it.
 

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Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ What's funny is that when I posted pics where the paint was fully preserved, you rebutted by saying that paintings sometimes get darker over time. This is true, however that is no reason why the photos I posted show Nefertari with a darker skin complexion especially when all other colors remain bright.

In fact the problem with Egyptian paintings is just the opposite-- portraits loose paint and become lighter over time.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by the lying dumbass:


dimwit, you proved my point magnificently, this what a faded painting looks like




this is what a faded painting does not look like

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So you're saying that all paint fading occurs the exact same way?? Are you saying the Nefertari portrait is not faded despite the traces of dark paint on the cheek, chin, neck, and arms. What about older photos showing more paint?? The only dimwit is YOU! LOL How long are you going to humiliate yourself here in this forum??
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

Wally is correct. The imagery in Egyptian tombs, especially those of the royals, followed a narrative and each section represented a part of the journey to the afterlife. That is why in certain parts of the tombs the deceased, male or female, may be seen in certain pale colors, while in others they are seen in natural tones. This pattern is found in most tombs with the same person, especially females, being shown in different colors.

Unfortunately, most Western discussions on Egyptian art only focus on one or two scenes or images out of a larger tomb which causes whole bunch of confusion and distortion. The imagery has to be taken into the context of the entire tomb not just one small piece of it.

---

Correct. However, there's no doubt the picture of Nefertari I posted has its skin color faded.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
The texture and thickness of the hair on this mummy is that of an African woman,
however, that is not the issue here...

This appears to be a black and white photo that has been tinctured with a burnt sienna
touch up of the hair, forehead, nails...there are no other color or hues on this photo


Why was this done, do you suppose?
 

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Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
It is all documented by the restoration team.

Most restorations include extensive photographs of the site before and after the restoration.

And it is from these you can see the obvious differences in color of some of these images.

http://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications/pdf_publications/art_eternity.html

Here is an example:

http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/nefertari.htm

Also, keep in mind that this tomb has been restored multiple times since its discovery.

And there are mutltiple images of nefertari in various hues. There are some where she is depicted as dark chocolate brown. Others where she is depicted as lighter brown and still others where she is depicted as pale. Now of course all the hype of the restoration and exhibition goes to those "pale" images as being "naturalistic", but this is simply hype because the brown images are just as naturalistic. Depictions of Egyptian women in various shades, even of the same person in one tomb, was normal in Egyptian art and shows that many of the colors were symbolic.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Soot or ash could be one cause, but the truth is there are many chemicals in the air that can cause paint to become darker. The point is Egyptian relics are usually preserved in dry climates with few chemicals in the air.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lying dumbass:


dimwit, you proved my point magnificently, this what a faded painting looks like




this is what a faded painting does not look like

---

So you're saying that all paint fading occurs the exact same way?? Are you saying the Nefertari portrait is not faded despite the traces of dark paint on the cheek, chin, neck, and arms. What about older photos showing more paint?? The only dimwit is YOU! LOL How long are you going to humiliate yourself here in this forum??

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They are obviously both faded - silly. Keep hope alive though, and keep posting those "restored and faded Libou as well.
 

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Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ What's funny is that when I posted pics where the paint was fully preserved, you rebutted by saying that paintings sometimes get darker over time. This is true, however that is no reason why the photos I posted show Nefertari with a darker skin complexion especially when all other colors remain bright.

In fact the problem with Egyptian paintings is just the opposite-- portraits loose paint and become lighter over time.

The par-examplar of this is the seated scribe proudly displayed in the Cairo Museum.

before


after


There's no way getting around it you dumb liar.

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I think that's the scribe now at the Louvre. Funny thing I was just asked the other day on youtube by a Eurowack gone wild - "why is the scribe at the Louvre white if the Egyptians were black". And the guy calls me a racist. lol! Pitiful all of this unnecessary confusion has been caused by European museums and so-called mainstream "Egyptology".
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
the seated scribe - The Louvre, France

"The statue was cleaned in 1998, although the process merely reduced the wax overpainting.
This restoration brought out the well-conserved ancient polychromy."

Old Kingdom, 4th Dynasty (?), c. 2620-2500 BC


"The most convincing of these associates the scribe to Pehernefer. Certain stylistic criteria,
such as the thin lips, which was unusual, the form of the torso, and the broad chest
could support this theory."

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail_notice_popup.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225559&CURRENT_LLV_NOTICE%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225559&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=98527236965008 06&bmLocale=en
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Pehernefer and the Admiral Tchenty.
Found at Saqqara, 4th dynasty


 

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Posted by Neferet (Member # 17109) on :
 
^^Bekka!
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 

African Origin of Civilization, p199

Fourth Dynasty ruling class...





Fifth dynasty portraits

 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Manu Ampim is a fraudulent scholar. I nominate this joker as a fake.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

He claims to be a professor, for one thing, but his CV lists no qualification higher than a masters degree...

http://www.manuampim.com/africana_profile.htm

His degree is in African American history, yet he feels qualified to go around slandering Ancient Egyptian artifacts as fakes and impugning the integrity of white and Egyptian scholars. There has been no whitewash Egyptian history, the Rahotep and Nofret statues and other are perfectly genuine, and no good reason has been given to doubt them. Europeans did not toil under the burning sun in Egypt to uncover statues only to knock their noses off and scrape the paint away. Such suggestions are preposterous and insulting.

Ampim was enough of a clown to claim that paint was scraped from one statue to make it look white, and to cite as evidence the fact that there was still brown paint on the legs! What halfwit would only scrape half a statue white? This is not scholarship but insane paranoia!

The Tetisheri bust was discredited by a proper scholar (Davies of the British Museum) for sound reasons. Its inscription was found to be copied from another statue base, and was incorrectly rendered in the areas where the inscription was damaged on the other base. Also it shows a type of dress and hairstlye that are not represented on any other statues. These are good grounds for declaring an object inauthentic. This is scholarship. The likes of Ampim and Stierlin demonstrate no such metholdogy. They are just attention-grabbing chancers.

Hawass called Stierlin 'delerious' for questioning the Nefertit bust, and I'll go with that. As for Hermiunu, his face has obviously been reconstructed from fragments also found in situ. No parts were missing except the eyes, and the reconstructed parts are evident enough on close examination.

http://www.perankhgroup.com/hemini%20nefermaat81.jpg
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
BBC News Manchester

6 April 2011 Last updated at 10:11 ET

Fake statue Amarna Princess returns to Bolton Museum


The Amarna Princess was bought by Bolton Museum in 2003

A fake ancient Egyptian statue has returned to the
museum in Greater Manchester which was tricked into
paying £440,000 for it.

Bolton Council bought the Amarna Princess in 2003 after
Christie's and the British Museum authenticated the figurine
as 3,300 years old.

But the statue of the granddaughter of King Tutankhamun
was created by Shaun Greenhalgh in his shed in Bolton.

It, and other fakes, will go on display at Bolton Museum from
16 April.

Greenhalgh, of Bromley Cross in Bolton, was jailed for four
years and eight months at Bolton Crown Court in 2007 after
admitting selling faked and forged works of art as genuine
and laundering the money he made.

London's Metropolitan Police acquired the Amarna Princess,
and Greenhalgh's other fakes, after his conviction.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
Fake gallery...

http://www.ipl.org/div/kelsey/gallery.html
 

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Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
 
^I never realized that statue had eyes so blue.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ You morons. The eyes are translucent marbles that give off a certain color depending on what light they are reflecting. Sometimes it appears gray, other times blue. LOL

You idiots fixate on the light color of the eyes but not the original color of the scribe!




It's rare, but blue eyes can occur in black people as well. LOL
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ You morons. The eyes are translucent marbles that give off a certain color depending on what light they are reflecting. Sometimes it appears gray, other times blue. LOL

You idiots fixate on the light color of the eyes but not the original color of the scribe!




It's rare, but blue eyes can occur in black people as well. LOL

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

inlaid eyes: they consist of a piece of red-veined white magnesite, in which a piece of slightly truncated rock crystal was placed. The front part of the crystal was carefully polished. The back side was covered with a layer of organic material, creating the color of the iris and also probably serving as an adhesive.

---

^ Correct, round crystals like today's translucent marbles. You've confirmed my statements. Congratulations.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simpleton:

The statue is 21.26 inches high and made of painted limestone. It had been covered in a layer of wax varnish. The wax had accumulated dirt and
was removed in 1998 returning the figure to it's original color.


I thought there was more to the story.

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And what is the basis that the remnants of original dark paint that was true skin tone was "dirt". You'd be surprised how many statues lost their original paint due to the claim that it was "dirt". Of course they probably share the same mentality as you. "This must be dirt because it is too dark to be the Egyptians' actual skin color" LOL
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by A Simpleton:

The statue is 21.26 inches high and made of painted limestone. It had been covered in a layer of wax varnish. The wax had accumulated dirt and
was removed in 1998 returning the figure to it's original color.


I thought there was more to the story.

---

And what is the basis that the remnants of original dark paint that was true skin tone was "dirt". You'd be surprised how many statues lost their original paint due to the claim that it was "dirt". Of course they probably share the same mentality as you. "This must be dirt because it is too dark to be the Egyptians' actual skin color" LOL

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

inlaid eyes: they consist of a piece of red-veined white magnesite, in which a piece of slightly truncated rock crystal was placed. The front part of the crystal was carefully polished. The back side was covered with a layer of organic material, creating the color of the iris and also probably serving as an adhesive.

---

^ Correct, round crystals like today's translucent marbles. You've confirmed my statements. Congratulations. [/QB]

---

You made no mention that the back side of the translucent crystals were
"covered with a layer of organic material, creating the color of the iris".
You said the iris appeared colored due to varying outside light refraction upon the crystal.
The complexion of the Seated Scribe after being cleaned falls still falls within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "black" and also within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "non-black"
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
...now, this is sh|t...


...and this is Shinola...Authentic Kememou scribes - some of which are 'nose Chiseled'...




 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
^^^^^^^

why would the noses be chiseled? I thought African diversity covers these types of noses





 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Who knows. They could have been damaged by tomb robbers, fanatic Christians or Muslims, or Euronuts who thought the noses were too wide.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:




The original paint was the above dark orange brown color.

The restorers didn't come in and say this is too dark to be an Egyptian. They tested the wax varnish to distinguish it chemically from the paint sample. Then they removed it.
Prior to the cleaning one could detect three colors. One was the basic dark orange brown color of the statue. The second is a cream color, some of the color of the original limestone in many smaller places, a result of the paint flaking off.

The third color is a darker chocolate brown color which was a wax varnish layer used by the Egyptians to protect the paint and is a standard ancient material. Over time wax can pick up dirt.
This layer of dirt of a chocolate brown color is a different type of brown than the orangey base color. If such a color were to fade it would be a light brown tan color but not show this orange quality.

---

quote:

---

You made no mention that the back side of the translucent crystals were
"covered with a layer of organic material, creating the color of the iris".
You said the iris appeared colored due to varying outside light refraction upon the crystal.
The complexion of the Seated Scribe after being cleaned falls still falls within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "black" and also within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "non-black"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

...now, this is sh|t...


...and this is Shinola...Authentic Kememou scribes - some of which are 'nose Chiseled'...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
[QUOTE]You made no mention that the back side of the translucent crystals were
"covered with a layer of organic material, creating the color of the iris".
You said the iris appeared colored due to varying outside light refraction upon the crystal.
The complexion of the Seated Scribe after being cleaned falls still falls within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "black" and also within the realm of skin darkness which some people would call "non-black"

---

Okay. So? Regardless he was not the blue-eyed Euro you and Simpleton make him out to be.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:

...and this is Shinola...Authentic Kememou scribes - some of which are 'nose Chiseled'...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
...now, this is sh|t...


...and this is Shinola...Authentic Kememou scribes...

---

 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Me thinks she (Lyingass) doth protest too much.
 

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Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
 
Nice thread by Wally showing fake Egyptian statues, white people trying to be black Egyptian, Kufi hat and a rare seated picture of pharaoh Khafra with a round nose. I find this thread when I was looking for picture in google image.
 

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Posted by HidayaAkade (Member # 20642) on :
 
Bump
 

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