Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East
Our statistical tests of alternative Semitic histories support an initial divergence of Akkadian from ancestral Semitic over competing hypotheses (e.g. an African origin of Semitic). We estimate an Early Bronze Age origin for Semitic approximately 5750 years ago in the Levant, and further propose that contemporary Ethiosemitic languages of Africa reflect a single introduction of early Ethiosemitic from southern Arabia approximately 2800 years ago.
Chadic speakers of Cameroon for example possess an overwhelming high percentage of Neolithic Y Eurasian ancestry from the Near East which is a major supporter of an Asian origin for Afro Asiatic instead of Africa.
If Proto-Afro-Asiatic speakers where From Nubia to the Horn as noted by Ehret et al then can anyone explain why Nubians possess a Nilo-Saharan language and Egyptians possess an Afro-Asiatic one? Shouldn't Nubian be Afro-Asiatic since many of you believe Proto eee originate in Nubia?
There is no significant archaeological evidence for a population movement from Africa into the Levant, whether Mesolithic or Neolithic, at the time in question My working assumption, therefore, is that early Afroasiatic languages spread from the Levant into Africa between 7000 and12,000 years ago, probably in more than one movement."(“The Origins of Afroasiatic” 2004 Peter Bellwood - Department of Archaeology & Anthropology Australian National University, Canberra Australia)
Haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group. The bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events MAINLY FROM ASIA AND EUROPE evident in a higher migration rate for speakers of Afro-Asiatic...The data provide insights not only into the history of the Nile Valley, but also in part to the history of Africa and the area of the Sahel." (Cavalli-Sforza; 2008)
"E-M215 was found to occur more in Nilo-Saharan rather than Afro-Asiatic speaking groups. In contrast, haplogroups F-M89, I-M170, J-12f2, and JM172 were found to be more frequent in the Afro-Asiatic speaking groups.J-12f2 and J-M172 represents 94% and 6%, respectively, of haplogroup J with high frequencies among Nubians, Copts, and Arabs."
Negroids cannot claim Afro Asiatic languages due to such Caucasian presence and influence from the Near East. Why do so many Eurasian clades correlate with the origin and diversification of Afro-Asiatic languages and peoples?
Afro-Asiatic is Asian.Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
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Totally wrong nothing is Asian about socalled Middle East i would have to say those who spoke Semetic languages in Arabia Akkadian, Babylonian are more related to Horn of AFrican Semetic than any other Asians like Chinese,Persian,Indian,Pakistani,etc.
U cant speak about Semitic without speaking about the Horn and North Africa. Afro-asiatic is not to Asian my friend even lingusitic experts show that its not Mathilda is not a Lingustic and neither are u.
Let me tell u i speak both Cushitic languages as well as Semitic languages. Arabic,Bejawi,and Tigre and i would have to say that some languages in the Horn have Cushitic elements like Amhara as well as Gurage.
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Another instance of grabbing at straws. Semitic originated in East Africa(Greenberg, Bernal, et al) for the simple parsimonious reason that it is there(Ethiopia area) that that Semitic has the most variation among the various languages of the area. In other words the deepest linguistic clades of Semitic are in East Asia.
Again, the idea of "Asiatic" is just too broad to explain anything. What, for example, does Japanese culture have to with Yemeni or Saudi culture--totally, totally, different.
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Even if one were to grant him that Semitic as a family arose in Asia, such a claim has nothing to do with the assertion made in the title of his thread. This paper was posted a long time ago and I even e-mailed the authors (and got a response) immediately after. They claim nothing of the sort.
Btw, Mathilda isn't very bright.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Correction above: Deepest linguistic clades of Semitic are in EAST AFRICA.
Do you have a source for this claim? Mine is Tiskoff and Ehret, but they don't claim to know for sure Semitic, proto-Semitic nor Afroasan origins. Can you also answer my reply to you in the DNA/IQ Kemet topic?
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Correction above: Deepest linguistic clades of Semitic are in EAST AFRICA.
Do you have a source for this claim? Mine is Tiskoff and Ehret, but they don't claim to know for sure Semitic, proto-Semitic nor Afroasan origins. Can you also answer my reply to you in the DNA/IQ Kemet topic?
Tishkoff is not a linguist and Ehret clearly identifies afro-asiatic origins in East Africa. No one is more clear on this issue than he is, hence his own term "Afrasan" in order to take "asia" out of the name. You obviously have read none of his work.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Correction above: Deepest linguistic clades of Semitic are in EAST AFRICA.
Do you have a source for this claim? Mine is Tiskoff and Ehret, but they don't claim to know for sure Semitic, proto-Semitic nor Afroasan origins. Can you also answer my reply to you in the DNA/IQ Kemet topic?
Tishkoff is not a linguist and Ehret clearly identifies afro-asiatic origins in East Africa. No one is more clear on this issue than he is, hence his own term "Afrasan" in order to take "asia" out of the name. You obviously have read none of his work.
"We used Bayesian phylogenetic methods to elucidate the relationships and divergence dates of Semitic languages, which we then related to epigraphic and archaeological records to produce a comprehensive hypothesis of Semitic origins and dispersals after the divergence of ancestral Semitic from Afroasiatic in Africa (figure 1)."
Tishkoff was the principal scientist(Geneticist and Anthropologist)in Tishkoff et al. 2009 with Ehret(Linguist)and he only proposes AA origins in North Africa as shown in figure 1 above but the Asian or African origin is still up for debate. Linguistics hypothesis are not equivalent to Math theorems.
You and lamin need to look up the term East Africa and not confuse the term with North Africa -
Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East
Andrew Kitchen1,*, Christopher Ehret2, Shiferaw Assefa2 and Connie J. Mulligan
Department of Anthropology, PO Box 103610, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 2610-3610, USA Department of History, PO Box 951473, University of California—Los Angeles,CA 90095-1473, USA
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Neolithic in Northern Africa. Approximately 14 kya, climatic changes associated with the end of the Last Glacial Maximum resulted in regions around the world becoming more favorable to human exploitation. Northern Africa is one such region, and ~13 kya, novel technologies (“Natufian”) thought to be the immediate precursor to agricultural technologies emerged and were associated with semisedentary subsistence and population expansions in northeastern Africa (35). Moreover, before the emergence of the Natufian styled artifacts, the archaeological record includes two artifact styles, the “Geometric Kebaran” and the “Mushabian” associated with Middle Eastern and Northern African populations, respectively (35). The archaeological evidence suggests the peoples using these assemblages interacted for well over 1,000 years, and linguistic evidence suggests that the peoples using these assemblages may have spoken some form of proto-Afroasiatic (35, 36). Although the origins of the Afroasiatic language family remain contentious, linguistic data generally support a model in which the Afroasiatic language family arose in Northern Africa >10 kya (36). Moreover, analyses of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family suggest that proto-Cushitic arose and diversified at least 7 kya, and this likely took place in Ethiopia (37). Intriguingly, the origin and diversification of proto-Afroasiatic is consistent with the spread of intensive plant collection in the archaeological record, and some interpret this pattern to represent a model in which proto-Afroasiatic speakers developed the novel subsistence technology resulting in the expansion and spread of their Afroasiatic descendants in the region (37). Some examples of the relevant linguistic data include reconstructed Chadic root words for “porridge” and “sorghum” and the Cushitic root words for “grain” and “wheat” (37). Because these and other root words are present in many of the Chadic and Cushitic languages, it is assumed that they were present in the proto-Chadic and proto-Cushitic languages and therefore must be as old as those proto-languages (37). The genetic data appear to be consistent with the archaeological and linguistic data indicative of extensive population interactions between North African and Middle Eastern populations. A recent NRY study explores the distribution of haplogroups in a sample of African, Middle Eastern, and European males (38). Whereas a subclade of haplogroup E (M35) appears to have arisen in eastern Africa over 20 kya and subsequently spread to the Middle East and Europe, haplogroup J (M267) appears to have arisen in the Middle East over 20 kya and subsequently spread into northern Africa (38). A recent study of genomewide autosomal microsatellite markers reports that Middle Eastern and African samples share the highest number of alleles that are also absent in other non-African samples, consistent with bidirectional gene flow (1). In addition, a recent study of domestic goat mtDNA and NRY variation reports similar findings as well as evidence of trade along the Strait of Gibraltar (39). The combined archaeological, linguistic, and genetic data, therefore, suggest bidirectional migration of peoples between northern Africa and the Levant for at least the past ~14 ky.
posted
Very rarely do I use invoke internet acronyms such as lmao or even lol but this one calls for it: ROTFLMAO
Derktheperk wrote:
quote:
Negroids cannot claim Afro Asiatic languages due to such Caucasian presence and influence from the Near East. Why do so many Eurasian clades correlate with the origin and diversification of Afro-Asiatic languages and peoples?
Afro-Asiatic is Asian.
And to prove his point he submits in evidence a map showing the origin of Afro-Asiatic in Africa
What a maroon!
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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Neolithic in Northern Africa. Approximately 14 kya, climatic changes associated with the end of the Last Glacial Maximum resulted in regions around the world becoming more favorable to human exploitation. Northern Africa is one such region, and ~13 kya, novel technologies (“Natufian”) thought to be the immediate precursor to agricultural technologies emerged and were associated with semisedentary subsistence and population expansions in northeastern Africa (35). Moreover, before the emergence of the Natufian styled artifacts, the archaeological record includes two artifact styles, the “Geometric Kebaran” and the “Mushabian” associated with Middle Eastern and Northern African populations, respectively (35). The archaeological evidence suggests the peoples using these assemblages interacted for well over 1,000 years, and linguistic evidence suggests that the peoples using these assemblages may have spoken some form of proto-Afroasiatic (35, 36). Although the origins of the Afroasiatic language family remain contentious, linguistic data generally support a model in which the Afroasiatic language family arose in Northern Africa >10 kya (36). Moreover, analyses of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family suggest that proto-Cushitic arose and diversified at least 7 kya, and this likely took place in Ethiopia (37). Intriguingly, the origin and diversification of proto-Afroasiatic is consistent with the spread of intensive plant collection in the archaeological record, and some interpret this pattern to represent a model in which proto-Afroasiatic speakers developed the novel subsistence technology resulting in the expansion and spread of their Afroasiatic descendants in the region (37). Some examples of the relevant linguistic data include reconstructed Chadic root words for “porridge” and “sorghum” and the Cushitic root words for “grain” and “wheat” (37). Because these and other root words are present in many of the Chadic and Cushitic languages, it is assumed that they were present in the proto-Chadic and proto-Cushitic languages and therefore must be as old as those proto-languages (37). The genetic data appear to be consistent with the archaeological and linguistic data indicative of extensive population interactions between North African and Middle Eastern populations. A recent NRY study explores the distribution of haplogroups in a sample of African, Middle Eastern, and European males (38). Whereas a subclade of haplogroup E (M35) appears to have arisen in eastern Africa over 20 kya and subsequently spread to the Middle East and Europe, haplogroup J (M267) appears to have arisen in the Middle East over 20 kya and subsequently spread into northern Africa (38). A recent study of genomewide autosomal microsatellite markers reports that Middle Eastern and African samples share the highest number of alleles that are also absent in other non-African samples, consistent with bidirectional gene flow (1). In addition, a recent study of domestic goat mtDNA and NRY variation reports similar findings as well as evidence of trade along the Strait of Gibraltar (39). The combined archaeological, linguistic, and genetic data, therefore, suggest bidirectional migration of peoples between northern Africa and the Levant for at least the past ~14 ky.
Please comment on what I posted from Ehret. You made a claim about Ehret that still needs to be addressed (even though the above also again, clearly places Afrasan origins in Africa, not Asia..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Very rarely do I use invoke internet acronyms such as lmao or even lol but this one calls for it: ROTFLMAO
Derktheperk wrote:
quote:
Negroids cannot claim Afro Asiatic languages due to such Caucasian presence and influence from the Near East. Why do so many Eurasian clades correlate with the origin and diversification of Afro-Asiatic languages and peoples?
Afro-Asiatic is Asian.
And to prove his point he submits in evidence a map showing the origin of Afro-Asiatic in Africa
What a maroon!
And the naive "talking point" about- how come Nubians speak Nilo-Saharan vs Egyptians who speak Afro-Asiatic is similar rubbish for 4 reasons:
1) The Nilo-Saharan language extends into parts of Upper Egypt, (Adams 1982) not simply the Sudan/Nubia. This undermines the bogus picture they paint of a neat "Racial" divide between the Sudan and Egypt. In fact the Nubians and Egyptians were ethnically the closest people. Some spoke Nilo-Saharan, and some Egyptian, Nothing at all unusual about that as a common pattern of human existence.
2) Different groups of Nubians are well documented in the literature, even ancient literature. The notion that there was this monolithic group of "Nubians" all speaking the same Nilo-Saharan languages, in "racial" separation from Egypt is rubbish.
There were different groups of Egytians (oasis dwellers etc for example) and different groups of Nubians. They are one continuity though. For example the annals of Weni the elder states:
"When his majesty took action against the Asiatic sand-dwellers, his majesty made an army of many tens of thousands from all of Upper Egypt: ...; from Lower Egypt: ...; and from Irtjet-Nubians, Medja-Nubians, Yam-Nubians, Wawat-Nubians, Kaau-Nubians; and from Tjemeh-land."
3) There is an element of racist hypocrisy in their 'Aryan language model". In Europe, the white Basques speak a language that is not the Indo-European languages spoken by most other white people in Europe. Yet they fully accept that Basques are white Europeans. But when the same situation rises in the African Nile valley - well oh no! Can't have that. There must be some weird "racial" hierarchy or "wandering Caucasoids" involved to "explain" that situation. See, the hypocrites have no problem with European diversity, but when in comes to Africa they want to impose all sorts of biased double standards.
4) Finally, different groups of people living together with different language families is nothing at all unusual on earth. The Basques are an example in Europe, but in India they have been doing it for millennia. Speakers of the Dravidian languages live in the same nation with speakers of the Indo-European/Indo-Aryan languages for thousands of years. They live side by side and genetically they are all Asiatics. Few thinking people would find that unusual, It is only in Africa that the biased racial hypocrites apply a different standard.
side by side and they are all Asiatics. But when it comes to Africa a racist double standard reigns…
. .
---------------------------------------------------------------------- As for assorted claims of "wandering Eurasians" bringing the Afro-Asiatic languages the reference to Ehret already debunks that, but Explorer's detailed analysis already posted also shoes this as well.
[quote] "The genetic data do not support a model of demic difusion by farmers from the Levant to explain the Neolithic in northern or Eastern Africa, or the spread of the Afro-Asiatic languages into Africa." [endquote] --From: Bengston, John D. (ed.), In Hot Pursuit of Language in Prehistory: Essays in the four fields of anthropology. 2008. John Benjamins Publishing: pp. 3-16)
^^ And our "white Egypt" friends own academic study, proffered as "proof" of an Asian origin, shows instead an African origin.... Their own "evidence" debunks them.. lmao...
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^^ and their own study debunks them further:
[quote from the study] "Thus, we propose that the current distribution of Ethiosemitic reflects a process of language diffusion through existing African populations with little gene flow from the Arabian Peninsula (i.e. a language shift)."
5 out of 6 of the Afro-Asiatic languages are in Africa. Even if the SEmitic branch of the group has a mideast origin, the study says that STILL doesnt mean any mass movement or gene flow from the Arabian penisula. So here again, we still don't see the much touted "wandering Caucasoids" providing any significant influx to civilize the natives, or introduce "diversity".
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^^ ANd as Hanihara 96 and others show: Early Middle Easterners looked like Africans. So even if "Middle Easterners" are assumed to be harbingers of Semitic, they would STILL not be the much touted "wandering Caucasoids"
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: ^ Comment on older studies overturned by later studies? :confused
LOL.. You confuse yourself by being stupid. Let me demonstrate..
quote: linguistic data generally support a model in which the Afroasiatic language family arose in Northern Africa >10 kya (36). Moreover, analyses of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family suggest that proto-Cushitic arose and diversified at least 7 kya, and this likely took place in Ethiopia"
Now, go back to school and learn how to check citations. Citation (36), which they used to support these claims, corresponds to what??
You got it! The paper from Ehret that I already posted and you refuse to read. Instead, you rely on a secondary source paper from non-linguists who refer to it, yet claiming they somehow "overturn it". hahaha!
If anything, they oversimplify what they cite. For example, "northern Africa is a broad term that Ehret et al, doesn't use, they're more precise, in the paper they're referencing he actually writes:
"This extensive, well-grounded linguistic research places the Afroasiatic homeland in the southeastern Sahara or adjacent Horn of Africa"
In other words, northeastern Africa if they were citing him accurately without generalizing. Though all this begs to question why you even posted this because in none of these citations is "Asia" even a factor.
From the source of the quotation you posted:
(36) Ehret C, Keita SO, Newman P (2004) The origins of Afroasiatic. Science 306:1680, and author reply (2004) 306:1680.
posted
Nonprophet, honestly, that's very embarrassing. You should just stop.
In any event, there is no argument against that notion that Afrasan is African, Keita even called an Asian origin "laughable". You only prove how laughable it really is.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East
Andrew Kitchen 1,*, Christopher Ehret 2, Shiferaw Assefa 2 and Connie J. Mulligan1
A recent study of genomewide autosomal microsatellite markers reports that Middle Eastern and African samples share the highest number of alleles that are also absent in other non-African samples, consistent with bidirectional gene flow (1). In addition, a recent study of domestic goat mtDNA and NRY variation reports similar findings as well as evidence of trade along the Strait of Gibraltar (39). The combined archaeological, linguistic, and genetic data, therefore, suggest bidirectional migration of peoples between northern Africa and the Levant for at least the past ~14 ky.
Neolithic in Northern Africa. Approximately 14 kya, climatic changes associated with the end of the Last Glacial Maximum resulted in regions around the world becoming more favorable to human exploitation. Northern Africa is one such region, and ~13 kya, novel technologies (“Natufian”) thought to be the immediate precursor to agricultural technologies emerged and were associated with semisedentary subsistence and population expansions in northeastern Africa (35). Moreover, before the emergence of the Natufian styled artifacts, the archaeological record includes two artifact styles, the “Geometric Kebaran” and the “Mushabian” associated with Middle Eastern and Northern African populations, respectively (35). The archaeological evidence suggests the peoples using these assemblages interacted for well over 1,000 years, and linguistic evidence suggests that the peoples using these assemblages may have spoken some form of proto-Afroasiatic (35, 36). Although the origins of the Afroasiatic language family remain contentious, linguistic data generally support a model in which the Afroasiatic language family arose in Northern Africa >10 kya (36).
Never denied that Afrasian(AA)origins may be in NE Africa / parts of SE Sahara as shown in the study fig 1 above. You guys seem to insist E. African AA origins as in Ethiopia which none of these recent studies imply except for a branch of AA - Cushitic. AA and proto-AA origins seem to coincide with the Neolithic revolution and bidirectional migrations between the Levant and NE Africa. So proposing AA or proto-AA origins in NE Africa or the Levant are not radical ideas. Y-DNA HG E may also have origins in either of these two regions due to the diversity.
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: ^ Comment on older studies overturned by later studies? :confused
LOL.. You confuse yourself by being stupid. Let me demonstrate..
quote: linguistic data generally support a model in which the Afroasiatic language family arose in Northern Africa >10 kya (36). Moreover, analyses of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family suggest that proto-Cushitic arose and diversified at least 7 kya, and this likely took place in Ethiopia"
Now, go back to school and learn how to check citations. Citation (36), which they used to support these claims, corresponds to what??
You got it! The paper from Ehret that I already posted and you refuse to read. Instead, you rely on a secondary source paper from non-linguists who refer to it, yet claiming they somehow "overturn it". hahaha!
If anything, they oversimplify what they cite. For example, "northern Africa is a broad term that Ehret et al, doesn't use, they're more precise, in the paper they're referencing he actually writes:
"This extensive, well-grounded linguistic research places the Afroasiatic homeland in the southeastern Sahara or adjacent Horn of Africa"
In other words, northeastern Africa if they were citing him accurately without generalizing. Though all this begs to question why you even posted this because in none of these citations is "Asia" even a factor.
From the source of the quotation you posted:
(36) Ehret C, Keita SO, Newman P (2004) The origins of Afroasiatic. Science 306:1680, and author reply (2004) 306:1680.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Nonprophet, honestly, that's very embarrassing. You should just stop.
In any event, there is no argument against that notion that Afrasan is African, Keita even called an Asian origin "laughable". You only prove how laughable it really is.
^^ His own diagram, shows the origin of "Afro- Asiatic" in Africa. Its the Semitic branch under study there. But even so, the authors note that Semitic spread is via African populations with little gene flow from Arabian Penisula. Strike 1 for the wandering Caucasoids.
But lets say Semitic did form outside Africa. That still leaves the origin of the overall language group in Africa, and even if people from outside Africa flowed in to spread the language, said influx would be by people ALREADY LOOKING LIKE TROPICAL AFRICANS. Strike 2 to the hoped for wandering Caucasoids.
Indeed, here is what an opponent of Ehret says from the study above:
"..suggesting [(2), p. 218] that the predomestication [but probably early cultivating (4)] Natufian archaeological complex of Palestine matches well with proto-Afrasian (Afroasiatic) cultural and environmental vocabulary reconstructions."
Thus, in this argument, the reputed "influx" of AA language speakers (if any) is associated with the Natufians, a people with some clearly documented "Sub-Saharan" tropical characteristics. Either way- Strike 3: the hoped for "wandering Caucasoids" are a bust..
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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