It's fashionable for black folk to look at ancient Egypt and say that it was black people in a great nation who did great things and some white people, who used to try to steal full credit for it, in light of current archeology and anthropology suggesting possibly a black civilization have now retreated to a position of it being semi-black but some say black people still cannot take full credit for it (whatever taking credit of people who died two thousand years ago really means).
The evidence of who the Egyptians were is slim, there are not many remains to look at. Now me not being one to jump on the political bandwagon I question the whole premise that Egypt was a black civilization. My ancestors don't come from North Africa so I'm not particularly attached to it. Africa is a huge continent. You could easily call the Egyptians imperialists who conquered other nations in order to extract minerals and other resources just like other imperialists have done in modern times. I'm not really sure if they were "black" or not. I wouldn't be surprised if if the ruling class of ancient Egypt were people from Mesopotamia who came and took command of local black people in the area. I look at some of the early statues of the Kings and they look like non black Semites or Mediterraneans to me. Others do look black in certain statues but many of the greater statues they don't look black to me. I'm sorry it's just me objective view of it. I suppose it would be nice if these great pyramid builders looked black to me but many just don't. Now you can go to other alternate statues of some of the same Kings and they look blacker. Many of those statues are not as realistic and appear to be made by mediocre craftsmen. There is on burial mask with black features that Wally posts. I think it may be of one of the Thutmose's and that to me is a great piece and he does look African. The wood King Tut bust has a dark skin tone but to me the features don't look African. Then you look at the gold Tut burial mask which is a great masterpiece and he has black looking lips and overall looks African. So I think there may have been a mixture of Mesopotamian and black Kings going on in ancient Egypt. They had the people spending years and years building these incredible but useless pyramids, tombs for the Kings. The afterlife was exclusive to people who could afford the ritual process. Now looking at this features thing one could think they're being pro black and say well anybody with this reddish toned skin must have been black because black people in Africa are very diverse. This is true but just because we are diverse and you can find Somalis and Ethiopians that have certain types of noses doesn't mean that Mediterraneans or Mesopotamians weren't some of the Kings in Egypt in the early dynasties, yes the early dynasties. Now I'm sorry that what I'm saying doesn't seem to fall into the "pro black" camp but it's just the way I'm seeing things. I'm going to have to put politics second to an area which I believe no one is really certain of. In ten years from now I think "pro black" politics is going to move beyond ancient history anyway. The culture of ancient Egypt has been over and done with for two thousands years. The people there practice Islam and that's not going to be changing. I would be careful of riding on the black nationalism tip about ancient Egypt because one day there may be proof that the place was not as black as you had hoped. It's not such a bad thing. It was certainly not all "white" either. It appears to have been a multicultural joint, probably more power sharing than in America today from whichever angle you want to look at it. Development in Africa is coming from many different areas and the focus on ancient Egypt by some of us Americans is going to blow over.
Now I move on to this 12th dynasty Egyptian text called the Edict Against the Blacks by King Usertsen (Sesostris III or "Senusret III") Does it prove anything? I don't know you be the judge. It was translated by Wallis Budge in his book Literature of the Ancient Egyptians. First some background on Usertsen (Sesostris III)
While there had been fortifications built in Nubia, Amenemhet II and Senusret II, Senusret III's predecessors, had not been extremely active in Nubia militarily, and some Nubian groups had gradually moved north past the Third Cataract. Khakaura Senusret III (aka Sesostris III) initiated a series of devastating campaigns in Nubia very early in his reign (perhaps year 6) in order to secure his southern borders and protect the trading routes and mineral resources. Apparently, the Nubians were a troublesome lot during his reign, for Senusret III would again have to mount campaigns in at least the years 8, 10, 16 and 19 of his reign. Regardless, these campaigns seem to have been for the most part successful, for the king had inscribed on a great stele at Semna erected in year 8 of his rule, now in Berlin,
"I carried off their women, I carried off their subjects, went forth to their wells, smote their bulls; I reaped their grain, and set fire thereto".
In other words, he killed their men, enslaved their women and children, burnt their crops and poisoned their wells. The stele also provides that no Nubians were allowed to take their herds or boats to the north of the specified border.To facilitate these military actions in Nubia, he had a an existing bypass canal around the First Cataract (rapids) at Aswan, originally dug in the Old Kingdom by Merenre (or Pepi I) cleared, broadened and deepened. According to an inscription, he had it repaired again in year eight of his reign. This canal was near the island of Sehel.Most of Senusret III's military attention was directed towards Nubia, but he is also noted for a campaign in Syria against the Mentjiu, where rather then a goal of expansion, he seems to have been after retribution and plunder. We owe this information to a a stele belonging to an individual named Sobkkhu, who apparently also participated in the Nubian campaigns. The king apparently led this campaign himself, capturing the town of Sekmem, which may have been Shechem in the Mount Ephrain region. The plunder from the Nubian and Syrian campaigns was mostly directed towards the temples in Egypt, and their renewal. For example, at Abydos, an inscription by a local official named Ikhernofret states that the king commissioned him to refurbish Osiris's barge, shrine and chapels with gold, electrum, lapis lazuli, malachite and other costly stones. He also adorned the temple of Mentuhotep II at Deir el-Bahari (West Bank at Luxor) with a series of six life size granite standing statues of himself wearing the nemes headdress. They once lined the lower terrace.
________________________________________________
Literature of the Ancient Egyptians
By E. A. Wallis Budge
Page 50 (or page 100, also page 48)
The earliest known annals are found on a stone which is preserved in the Museum at Palermo, and which for this reason is called “The Palermo Stone”; the Egyptian text was first published by Signor A. Pellegrini in 1896. How the principal events of certain years of the reigns of kings from the Predynastic Period to the middle of the fifth dynasty are noted is shown by the following: [Reign of] SENEFERU. Year ... The building of Tuataua ships of mer wood of a hundred capacity, and 60 royal boats of sixteen capacity. The Literature of the Ancient Egyptians 48
Page 51
Raid in the Land of the Blacks (i.e. the Sudan), and the bringing in of seven thousand prisoners, men and women, and twenty thousand cattle, sheep, and goats. Building of the Wall of the South and North [called] House of Seneferu. The bringing of forty ships of cedar wood (or perhaps “laden with cedar wood"). [Height of the Nile.] Two cubits, two fingers. [Reign of Seneferu.] Year ... The making of thirty−five ... 122 cattle The construction of one Tuataua ship of cedar wood of a hundred capacity, and two ships of mer wood of a hundred capacity. The numbering for the seventh time. [Height of the Nile.] Five cubits, one hand, one finger. The royal historical inscriptions of the first eleven dynasties are very few, and their contents are meagre and unimportant. As specimens of historical documents of the twelfth dynasty the following may be quoted:
EDICT AGAINST THE BLACKS
This short inscription is dated in the eighth year of the reign of Usertsen III. “The southern frontier in the eighth year under the Majesty of the King of the South and North, Khakaura (Usertsen III), endowed with life for ever. No Black whatsoever shall be permitted to pass [this stone] going down stream, whether travelling by land or sailing in a boat, with cattle, asses, goats, &c., belonging to the Blacks, with the exception of such as cometh to do business in the country of Aqen[1] or on an embassy. Such, however, shall be well entreated in every way. No boats belonging to the Blacks shall in future be permitted to pass down the river by the region of Heh.”[2] [Footnote 1: This district has not been identified.] [Footnote 2: The district of Semnah and Kummah, about 40 miles south of Wadi Halfah.] The methods of Usertsen III and his opinions of the Sudani folk are illustrated by the following inscription which he set up at Semnah, a fort built by him at the foot of the Second Cataract. “In the third month[1] of the season Pert His Majesty fixed the boundary of Egypt on the south at Heh (Semnah). I made my boundary and went further up the river than my fathers. I added greatly to it. I give commands [therein]. I am the king, and what is said by me is done. What my heart conceiveth my hand bringeth to pass. I am [like] the crocodile which seizeth, carrieth off, and destroyeth without mercy. Words (or matters) do not remain dormant in my heart. To the coward soft talk suggesteth longsuffering; this I give not to my enemies. Him who attacketh me I attack. I am silent in the matter that is for silence; I answer as the matter demandeth. Silence after an attack maketh the heart of the enemy bold. The attack must be sudden like that of a crocodile. The man who hesitateth is a coward, and a wretched creature is he who is defeated on his own territory and turned into a slave. The Black understandeth talk only. Speak to him and he falleth prostrate. He fleeth before a pursuer, and he pursueth only him that fleeth. The Blacks are not bold men; on the contrary, they are timid and weak, and their hearts are cowed. My Majesty hath seen them, and [what I say] is no lie. [Footnote 1: = January−February.] “I seized their women, I carried off their workers in the fields, I came to their wells, I slew their bulls, I cut their corn and I burnt it. This I swear by the life of my father. I speak the truth; there is no doubt about the matter, and that which cometh forth from my mouth cannot be gainsaid. Furthermore, every son of mine who shall keep intact this boundary which My Majesty hath made, is indeed my son; he is the son who protecteth his father, if he keep intact the boundary of him that begot him. He who shall allow this boundary to be removed, and shall not fight for it, is not my son, and he hath not been begotten by me. Moreover, My Majesty hath caused to be made a statue of My Majesty on this my boundary, not only with the desire that ye should prosper thereby, but that ye should do battle for it.” The Literature of the Ancient Egyptians 49
Page 52
CAMPAIGN OF THOTHMES II IN THE SUDAN The following extract illustrates the inscriptions in which the king describes an expedition into a hostile country which he has conducted with success. It is taken from an inscription of Thothmes II, which is cut in hieroglyphs on a rock by the side of the old road leading from Elephantine to Philae, and is dated in the first year of the king's reign. The opening lines enumerate the names and titles of the king, and proclaim his sovereignty over the Haunebu, or the dwellers in the northern Delta and on the sea coast, Upper and Lower Egypt, Nubia and the Eastern Desert, including Sinai, Syria, the lands of the Fenkhu, and the countries that lie to the south of the modern town of Khartum. The next section states: “A messenger came in and saluted His Majesty and said: The vile people of Kash (i.e. Cush, Northern Nubia) are in revolt. The subjects of the Lord of the Two Lands (i.e. the King of Egypt) have become hostile to him, and they have begun to fight. The Egyptians [in Nubia] are driving down their cattle from the shelter of the stronghold which thy father Thothmes [I] built to keep back the tribes of the South and the tribes of the Eastern Desert.” The last part of the envoy's message seems to contain a statement that some of the Egyptians who had settled in Nubia had thrown in their lot with the Sudani folk who were in revolt. The text continues: “When His Majesty heard these words he became furious like a panther (or leopard), and he said: I swear by Ra, who loveth me, and by my father Amen, king of the gods, lord of the thrones of the Two Lands, that I will not leave any male alive among them. Then His Majesty sent a multitude of soldiers into Nubia, now this was his first war, to effect the overthrow of all those who had rebelled against the Lord of the Two Lands, and of all those who were disaffected towards His Majesty. And the soldiers of His Majesty arrived in the miserable land of Kash, and overthrew these savages, and according to the command of His Majesty they left no male alive, except one of the sons of the miserable Prince of Kash, who was carried away alive with some of their servants to the place where His Majesty was. His Majesty took his seat on his throne, and when the prisoners whom his soldiers had captured were brought to him they were placed under the feet of the good god. Their land was reduced to its former state of subjection, and the people rejoiced and their chiefs were glad. They ascribed praise to the Lord of the Two Lands, and they glorified the god for his divine beneficence. This took place because of the bravery of His Majesty, whom his father Amen loved more than any other king of Egypt from the very beginning, the King of the South and North, Aakheperenra, the son of Ra, Thothmes (II), whose crowns are glorious, endowed with life, stability, and serenity, like Ra forever. Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
the mdr ntr speaks for itself
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: the mdr ntr speaks for itself
How appropriate that you, alTakruri, and Wally have taken to the convention of presuming to use Egyptian spellings.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: the mdr ntr speaks for itself
How appropriate that you, alTakruri, and Wally have taken to the convention of presuming to use Egyptian spellings.
Wally, alTakruri and I are the "E" team
you are the on the "P" team
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Lioness, you do realize there are other texts that suggest the Senurset line had its matrilineal origins within Ta-seti(nubia). The late Frank Joseph Yurco took the stance that the Senurset lineage originated with the union of a female from Ta-seti and an upper Egyptian male.
I am also disturbed by your attempt to resurect the know debunked ''dynastic race'' theory popularized by the late late Egyptologist W.B. Emery. Archaeological evidence found within Upper Egypt have debunked the notion of foreigners forming the rulership in early Egypt.
When reading second hand translations like Budge,Breasted et al you need to take in context the time period for their translations. Many of the Egyptologists reflected a certain imperilistic and racial climate at this time period and this is definately reflected in their works. So I ask you to preceed with caution and an objective mind. Otherwise, you are being just as bias as the people you criticize.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Ausar you haven't been here for awhile.. shim the Lioness is pure troll not to be taken seriously trust me on this.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Lioness, you do realize there are other texts that suggest the Senurset line had its matrilineal origins within Ta-seti(nubia). The late Frank Joseph Yurco took the stance that the Senurset lineage originated with the union of a female from Ta-seti and an upper Egyptian male.
I am also disturbed by your attempt to resurect the know debunked ''dynastic race'' theory popularized by the late late Egyptologist W.B. Emery. Archaeological evidence found within Upper Egypt have debunked the notion of foreigners forming the rulership in early Egypt.
When reading second hand translations like Budge,Breasted et al you need to take in context the time period for their translations. Many of the Egyptologists reflected a certain imperilistic and racial climate at this time period and this is definately reflected in their works. So I ask you to preceed with caution and an objective mind. Otherwise, you are being just as bias as the people you criticize.
please deal with the Usertsen III text from the mdr ntr I posted above
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
The problem lioness is you made various claims in your post I felt were inaccurate so I adressed the claims. Much of your evidence for the Senurset III Eddict relies upon faulty translations by 19th century Egyptologist whose racial idealogy go the best of them. The words that Egyptologist liks Breasted translated into black were just names like Nehsi. Neshi just means riverline southner. This meaning is nothing more or less.
The fact that the ancient Egyptians exploited people is not really suprising. If they indeed did fortify the southern borders and northern borders this does not negate the deep connection that the ancient Egyptians shared with the rest of the continent of Africa either during the dynastic era or into the pre-dyanstic era. Are you not forgetting that alot of white European groups had a deep hatred for each other. The fact that Senurset III banned some riverline Nubians entering Egypt does not mean that either group was not ethnically related.
I admit I cannot read Mdu Ntr but I doubt you can either. Your answers are most likely canned answers you get from other message boards instead of your original thought. Don't know for sure but it seems this way.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Your answers are most likely canned answers you get from other message boards instead of your original thought. Don't know for sure but it seems this way. [/QB]
I don't have the answers, I raise questions. It's very hard to come up with an original thought on Egypt because people here on ES respond to the racially oriented issues about Egypt and that has been done to death. Because there are few human remains it's hard to be sure of anything. I hadn't read forum discussions before on this Edict Against Blacks item. But if you google it you'll probably find some. I think it may not have been discussed much. We can only speculate if the translations are accurate or not. Nobody will ever know for sure. The thing is I state that I am not sure about certain things and that certain issues are open. But other people act like they know and go and make websites and graphics and act like they can explain things firmly about Ancient Egypt. I am not making such websites. Some of the people here are doing it and it's very selected material in order to fulfill a political agenda. This is what I question.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Well for sure you haven't read the thread I linked. We have discussed that text and the inanity of war opponents meaning different 'races.' Like the USA general Eisenhower not being a white German like those he led his forces to kill.
The primary untranslated text doesn't even have the word black in it. If you could read mdw ntr you would kmow that.
Look at the bust in your post. Do you imagine for a moment that face belongs to a man who is not black?
PS - Can anyone find the thread where I dealt extensively with this issue and posted a 3/4 profile of Senwosret from the cover of KMT? Like much of my good stuff it doesn't GOOGLE.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
ausar,
This "the lioness" is a shill - a person paid to endorse a product favorably, while pretending to be impartial; his product is "a non-Black or at best, a 'racially mixed' Ancient Egypt"
No one, except the hopelessly insane, would deny that all higher civilizations were multi- ethnic, multi-racial; Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Ghana, Mali...
What this shill wants to do is to insinuate into the Ancient Egyptian royal families/rulers a non-African, non-Black; I.E., a White participation which is all a giant load of crap!
a) Ancient Egyptian chronicles informs us of only one non-native dynasty during the extremely long history of Pharaonic Egypt, that of the Heq khasu or "Hyksos"; who only ruled in the Delta region, and was facilitated by the usual inter-African ethnic strifes of Ancient Egypt...
b) Then this shill quotes from Budge: Page 51 "Raid in the Land of the Blacks (i.e. the Sudan)" --Now, the only way one can say "Land of the Blacks" in Ancient Egyptian would be to say Ta ni Kememou, which we know refers to Ancient Egypt itself.
--What Budge probably did, and I would bet on it was to transliterate the text which probably read something like "Ta Nahasou", which has NO color connotation whatsoever, into "Land of the Blacks"; Which should have accurately been rendered "Land of the Sudanese"
c) Any further reading of Budges document quoted here which began this topic, the word "Blacks" should be replaced by "Sudanese"; Any Egyptologist would agree with me on this point.
d) Some enterprising person here will probably, if its available, post the original document written in Mdu Ntr...
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^ Exactly Takruri, this has already been dealt with due to the fact that Stormfront usus this very passage to push a "Nordic Egypt" non sense.
I mean the fact that no one is bothering to respond to this non sense proves its a waste of time. Ausar is the only one so kuddos to him, but seriously come on the Edict had nothing to do with Race esp. Given the fact that the 12th Dynasty ORIGINATED in Ta-Seti so are they Banning themselves from Egypt...A bunch of non sense.
BTW, Takruri Iv been looking for that thread for sometime good luck cuase I never found it.
Best bet is to try to pin point the year and search through ALL the threads created. Its time consuming but it works.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
the lioness Quote: Because there are few human remains it's hard to be sure of anything.
Someone please tell the fool that Egypt has the largest selection of Ancient skeletons and grave goods anywhere in the world.
This impressionable degenerate fool, obviously thinks that the ongoing arguments about ethnicity, are because there are no samples.
Fool, there are plenty of samples, and plenty of studies have been done. The problem is that as would be expected, the results show a varied but fundamentally pure-black people.
The ruling elites in North Africa and the middle-east are not even Black, much-less "Pure Blacks". A sensible person would immediately see the conflict, and understand the reason why results of those studies are rarely published.
Damn lioness, you are incredibly stupid.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ... d) Some enterprising person here will probably, if its available, post the original document written in Mdu Ntr...
I guess I'm going to have to be the enterprising chap; and I win my bet...
I found a fragment of the Stelae of Senusret III that contains reference to these "Blacks"
Do you see the shill? The Sudani were the ONLY Negroes (Blacks), ergo the Ancient Egyptians were not, neither were the peoples of the fertile Saharan crescent, nor the peoples of Central Africa, nor those of West Africa; it's a load of White racialist crap which, if you buy into it, then you're a "Gotcha" sucker...
Senusret (more accurately, Wosertsen) in order to be a legitimate king of Ancient Egypt would have to have had a maternal descent from a sudanese royal Queen-Mother (Ta Seti)... Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Still searching for the 3/4 bust post but in meantime here's one post from the 12th Dynasty a "Nubian" dynasty thread linked above for those who bothered not to read it.
= = =
Kesh was intertwined with Kmt as both shared a joint ethnic origin in prehistory. For the Kmtyw, Amami, the ancestral Godland was to the south and Kesh stood in between. Because of an especially holy site at the 4th cataract a few individual Nhsyw families had a certain claim to rulership over all Ta Akht.
What to some may seem very ironic is that the name Senwosret comes from the Uahka family. This Theban family can be traced back to the 6th dynasty. At that time they were architects who built temples near Abydos at Qua. That the Uahka were of Nhsyw origins is attested by their burial tombs. The design is unknown in Kmt but common in Kesh. The pharaoh of the famous conquest stele labeling Nhsyw cowards yet fearful of them taking over the land bit by bit was Senwosret III, himself of Nhsy ancestry!
But which ethny of Nehesi in particular?
Petrie thought the 12th dynasty was founded by Galla. I don't know if he means the Oromo or if he means the Shangalla.
quote:The Galla Penetration. It has long ago been remarked that the black sphinxes, later appropriated by the Hyksos, approximated to the Galla type of Abyssinia.
. . . .
This starts an enquiry how the Galla connection could thus appear on monuments. In the clearance and planning of the rock tombs at Qau, Antaeopolis, the peculiar plan of those tombs, with great halls and small chambers annexed, was observed to be closely parallel to that of later Nubian temples. In both tomb and temple the chief work is in the solid rock, while the forecourt is of masonry constructed in front of it. Another peculiarity was the hammer-work excavation of one tomb, which had evidently been done with stone balls, as in the Aswan granite working, and this implies a southern connection.
. . . .
Ancestry of Senusert. In the tomb of prince Uah-ka B at Qau, in an inner chamber, is painted a scene of the son of Uah-ka, named Senusert; there is no cartouche. As the Uah-ka family were of about the 4th or 5th dynasty (the name being unknown either in the 11th of the 12th dynasty), this implies that the 12th dynasty Senusert family descended from the Uah-ka family. Here we have, then, a link between the Galla type on the sphinxes and the 12th dynasty. The separate identification of these sphinxes follows further on. The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name is Ameny, son of a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. Waka is the god of the Gallas.
The Uahka werent the only family nor the 12th the only dynasty of Nhsw influence from origins in Kesh.
There was an intimate if exploitive sibling relationship between T3Wy and Kesh. Brothers veigh for dominance one over the other yet they remain the same family. Still there are differences between even identical twin brothers. Egypt embraced writing while Kesh eschewed it for the longest time and Egypt did rank Kesh among the Nine Bows clear until late New Kingdom times.
The important thing to remember is that certain Keshite families always, since the foundation of the Dynastic period, had a right to the throne of T3Wy because of their noble status in Gebel Barkal the prime residence of Amun the father of legitimacy to rulership.
Gebel Barkal was way up south at the fourth cataract. Yet it was the seat of Amun and pharoanic legitimacy. Among others too numerous to list
Zanakht of dynatsy 3 was a Nehasi
the 4th dynasty queen Khentkaues was of Ta Seti and she birthed the first two kings of the 5th dynasty
the Uahka family established the 12th dynasty
Senwosret or Sesostris was a common Uahka name
the name Amenhotep or Amememhet shows the Uahka connection to Amun and Gebel Barkal
Amenemhet I was vizier for Mentuhotep IV of the preceding 11th dynasty, his ancestry of and marrige in the Uahka family legitimized his natural right to the throne
the 14th dynasty's second ruler was actually named Nehesi and honored his mother Peret incorporating her name in his cartouche
Piye and the succeeding 25th dynasty are too famous to detail
the 25th dynasty was ultra orthodox reviving tradition throughout T3 Akht
in truth pharoanic Kmt ended with the 25th dynasty from Napata/Gebel Barkal
The kings of Kush were known to have a certain claim on Kmt's throne. Zanakht of the 3rd dynasty has strong Nhsw facial features. His line apparently died out. The 9th and 10th dynasty Uahka family of Thebes were buried in tombs of type unknown in Kmt but of design in Kush. The Uahka family has been traced back to the 6th dynasty builders of the temples at Qua near Abydos. Senusret is a name from the Uahka family, one of whose members took on the name Amenemhet to honor Amen the major deity of Thebes. This family established the 12th dynasty. Comparison of skull measurements reveals an exceedingly close relationship between the Uahka family and the modern Shangalla (non-Abyssinian) type of Ethiopian bordering Sudan.
Amenemhet I warred against Wawat pushing south far enough to establish a center of trade in Kerma at the 3rd catarct. Senusret I mentions the Akherkin, Kas, Khesaa, Shat, and Shemyk among the peoples of Wawat that he subdued. Senwosret III annexed Wawat up to the 2nd cataract as the southern border of Kmt.
Because of their propensities for independence the Senwosrets found it necessary to wage war against Wawat. On their defeat a string of fortresses were built. These were at Buhen, Kor, Dorginarti, Mirgissa, Dabenarti, Askut, Shalfak, Uronarti, Kumma, and Semna.
Nonetheless the kinship between the peoples of the lower and middle Nile Valleys must not be forgotten. Especially of note is the middle Nile Valley dwellers' attitude as to the status of the lower Nile Valley.
quote:... the Egyptian pharaohs of Dynasty 18 had recognized Gebel Barkal as an ancient source of Egyptian kingship and had themselves crowned there to affirm their rule, the new kings of Kush rediscovered this tradition and [] used it to prove their right to rule Egypt. Since the first to recognize the religious significance of Gebel Barkal had been the Pharoah Thutmose III (ca. 1479-1425 BC)[.]
. . . .
If [Keshites] have traditionally been portrayed by historians s "foreigners" in Egypt, they surely did not see themselves as such, despite their different ethnic, cultural and linguistic origin. In their minds Egypt and Kush were northern and southern halves of an ancient original domain of Amun. These two lands, they believed, had been united in mythological times; subsequently they grew apart, to be united again in historical times only by the greatest pharaohs. As "sons" of Amun, the Napatan monarchs saw themselves as heirs of those pharaohs [. . .] believ[ing] they were the god's representatives - from his southern sphere - chosen to unite and protect his ancient empire and to restore ma'at - "truth, order, and propriety" in the Egyptian sense - throughout the land.
It all boils down to cultural spirituality and the "kingship" deity of the matured middle and lower Nile valley in the days of empire that had been perculating since before either kingdom emerged.
I think that Gebel Barka was known to the A Group originators of the royalty concept of dynasty 0 and possibly the first attempts of state unification (judging by the finds of Qustul). I imagine the reason that certain NHHSYW females endowed their husbands or sons with a natural and undisputed right to the throne of T3Wy was because they hailed from the right family from Gebel Barkal of old from before the times of dynastic Egypt, and here's why:
quote: ... long before the Egyptians had set eyes on Gebel Barkal, the Nubians, too, had held it sacred. Although no pre-Egyptian settlement or cultic remains have yet been found there, unstratified Nubian pottery has been recovered, dating from the Neolithic, Pre-Kerma, and Kerma periods. This indicates that the site must have been occupied at least since the fourth millennium BC. The discovery on the summit of Gebel Barkal of thousands of chipped stone wasters, made of types of stones that can only be found on the desert floor, suggests that people brought stones to the summit to work them, a practice that implies a religious motivation. Likewise, the similarity between the sanctuary at Barkal, as it appeared in the Egyptian and Kushite periods, and that of Kerma, as it appeared at the end of the Classic Kerma phase, may suggest that there was a pre- Egyptian cultic connection between Gebel Barkal and the "Western Deffufa" at Kerma. There exists at least the possibility that the latter, a rectangular, brick built, mountain-like platform 19 m high, may have been built at Kerma as a magical substitute or "double" of Gebel Barkal. After all, complexes of temples were built in front of each, and each was conceived as the dwelling place of a powerful god.
There is no doubt that the Egyptians, and probably, too, the earlier Nubians, attached sacred significance to Gebel Barkal because of its bizarre form. Not only was the hill isolated on a flat desert plain and possessed of a spectacular cliff, 90 m high and 200 m long, its southwestern corner was marked by an enormous free-standing pinnacle, nearly 75 m high (fig.5). This monolith had all the appearance of a statue, but without precise form, and it could be imagined in many ways simultaneously. On the one hand, it could be seen as the figure of a standing king or god, wearing the White Crown. It could be seen as an erect phallus. It could also be seen as a rearing cobra (uraeus), wearing the White Crown. Ancient documents, both written and pictorial, reveal that the rock was imagined as all these things at once and was thus venerated as the source of the divine power of all the various things it represented. As a crowned human figure, it would have represented the living king or the ultimate royal ancestor, or the god himself. As a phallus, it would have represented Amun as father and procreator. As uraeus, it would have represented each and every goddess and all female creative power. It was thus father, mother, and royal child combined as one - which was apparently the very meaning of "Kamutef." Gebel Barkal, by means of the phallic-shaped pinnacle, not only confirmed the presence of Amun, it also had precisely the form of the Primeval Hill of Egyptian tradition, on which the Creator was thought to have appeared at the beginning of time and generated the first gods through an act of masturbation.
So as early as dynasty 3 Zanakht sits the throne.
4th dynasty queen Khentkaues births the first kings of the 5th dynasty.
In the 6th dynasty the Uahka family is building NHHSY architected tombs in T3Wy
The 12th dynasty is established by the Uahka family and kings bear the name of Amun in their own names just as Keshite kings will bear Amani names.
To my mind this shows a pre-18th dynasty affiliation of Amun among the NHHSYW most likely associated with Gebel Barkal. Where else would the prominence of Amun stem from that it was not used in T3Wy in kings' names before introduced by a dynasty of NHHSY roots?
Yet, some have still proposed Amun to have travelled in the reverse direction. from ERNEST A. WALLIS BUDGE TUTANKHAMEN AMENISM, ATENISM AND EGYPTIAN MONOTHEISM New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. 1923 Chap 2 TUTANKHAMEN AND THE CULT OF AMEN http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/tut/tut05.htm
quote: THE early history of the god Amen is somewhat obscure, and his origin is unknown. The name Amen means "hidden (one)," a title which might be applied to many gods. A god Amen and his consort Ament or Amenit are mentioned in the Pyramid Texts (UNAS, line 558), where they are grouped with Nau and Nen, and with the two Lion gods Shu and Tefnut. This Amen was regarded as an ancient nature-god by the priests of Heliopolis under the Vth dynasty, and it is possible that many of his attributes were transferred at a very early period to Amen, the great god of Thebes. Though recent excavations have shown that a cult of Amen existed at Thebes under the Ancient Empire, it is doubtful if it possessed any more than a local importance until the XIIth dynasty. When the princes of Thebes conquered their rivals in the north and obtained the sovereignty of Egypt, their god Amen and his priesthood became a great power in the land, and an entirely new temple was built by them, in his honour, at Karnak on the right bank of the Nile. The temple was quite small, and resembled in form and arrangement some of the small Nubian temples; it consisted of a shrine, with a few small chambers grouped about it, and a forecourt, with a colonnade on two sides of it. Amen was not the oldest god worshipped there, and his sanctuary seems to have absorbed the shrine of the ancient goddess Apit. ...
Although the kings of the XIIth dynasty were Thebans it is possible that they and many of their finest warriors had Sudani blood in their veins, and the attributes that they ascribed to Amen were similar to those that the Nubian peoples assigned to their indigenous gods. To them Amen symbolized the hidden but irresistible power that produces conception and growth in human beings and in the animal and vegetable worlds. And in some places in Egypt, and Nubia and the Oases, the symbol of the god Amen was either the umbilicus 1 or the gravid womb. The symbol of Amen that was shown to Alexander the Great, when he visited the temple of Jupiter Ammon in the Oasis of Siwah, was an object closely resembling the umbilicus, and it was inlaid with emeralds (turquoises?) and other precious stones--umbilico maxime similis est habitus, smaragdo et gemmis coagmentatus.
Despite the fact of the relative obscurity of Amen before the Uahka family's 12th dynasty boosting of his importance and the "Nubian" style temple devoted to him, the author of the above states that Egypt carrried Amun into "Nubia."
But that shouldn't be the last word and prime thought left in mind by this post.
While Egyptians did in fact rule over Wawat and even Kush, no Egyptian ever sat astride the throne of Kush. To the contrary Kushites sat on the Amun Seat both in Kush and in Egypt and their empire extended over more Nile and Rift valleys territory than perhaps even did Egypt.
As long as we continue employing the misnomer "Nubian" projected in the current literature a certain of confusion will remain in understanding mdw ntr texts. We must use the specific terms as they are in the primary sources.
If memory serves me correctly the following quote is from one of the original Sesotris:
quote: "The Nubian has but to hear (a sound) and he falls at a voice, it is merely answering him that makes him retreat; if one is agressive against him he turns tail, retreat and he becomes more aggressive. they are certainly not people to be respected: they are craven wretches. My majesty has seen them-it is not a lie."
This pharaoh is talking about his military expeditions against Wawat. Before the unification of the Two Lands, Wawat ruled up to Nag el Hasaya in what would later be the 2nd nome of Upper Egypt (Heru's Throne) immediately north of the 1st nome TaSeti.nwt. So we see there was intense rivalry between TaWy and TaSeti.x3st since predynastic times.
As we progress into the earliest dynastic era a cultural demarcation begins to distinguish the two peoples. KM.t embraced writing while TaSeti and Kesh to the south of it did not.
Getting back to the author of the above quoted inscription Sesostris III wrote it after retaking Buhen fortress. Late in 5th dynasty times Wawat took over Buhen fortress, built in the 4th dynasty by Snefru, and held it until the 12th dynasty when Sesostris took it and pillaged pastoral populations to its south. In the very next dynasty (13th) Kesh took it over holding it until the 18th dynasty.
With all this in mind we can see Sesostris III's boasts are just that, political hype. During the first 14 dynasties of its history that though TaWy built Buhen fortress (exchange place or trade center) Nehesis controlled it for 11 dynasties.
Then too in order to understand Sesostris III implied no "racial" proclivities we need to know his ancestral antecedents. We'll examine that next.
PT 2
Sesostris III (also transliterated as Senusret and Senwosret) was a 12th dynasty ruler. Senusret is a name from the Uahka family, one of whose members took on the name Amenemhet to honor Amen the major deity of Thebes in KM.t and Gebel Barkal deep in Kwsh. The 9th and 10th dynasty Uahka family of Thebes were buried in tombs of type unknown in KM.t but of design in Kush. The Uahka family has been traced back to the 6th dynasty builders of the temples at Qua near Abydos. This family established the 12th dynasty.
Amenemhet I started the 12th dynasty. He was vizier to Mentuhotep IV last pharaoh of dynasty 11. Amenemhet came to rule relying on a certain claim of ancestry and marriage as his right to attain to the rulership. The rulers of Kush were known to have a certain claim on KM.t's throne. This claim grew from the interdependencies between the two nations of KM.t and Kesh having to do with princes and princesses from Kush attending the Kmty court and marrying court members. Amenemhet records a "prophecy" foretelling his upcomance.
quote: provided by Wally (clickable link please go and read it) nswt pw r iyt n rsy imny mAa xrw rn.f sA Hmt pw n tA sty ms pw n Xn nxn iw.f r Ssp HDt iw.f r wTs dSrt iw.f smA sxmty iw.f r sHtp nbwy m mrt.sn pXr iHy m xfa wsr m nwd
There is a king who will come from the south Ameny true of voice is his name. He is the son of a woman of the Land of the Bow, he is a child of the Heartland of Nekhen. He will take up the White Crown, he will raise up the Red Crown, he will unite the Two Mighty Goddesses, he will appease the Two Lord Gods, with what they desire. The field circuit is in his grasp, the oar in the jump.
Amenemhet I warred against Wawat pushing south far enough to establish a center of trade in Kerma at the 3rd cataract. Senusret I mentions the Akherkin, Kas, Khesaa, Shat, and Shemyk among the peoples of Wawat that he subdued. Senwosret III annexed Wawat up to the 2nd cataract as the southern border of KM.t.
Because of their propensities for independence the Senwosrets found it necessary to wage war against Wawat. On their defeat a string of fortresses were built. These were at Buhen, Kor, Dorginarti, Mirgissa, Dabenarti, Askut, Shalfak, Uronarti, Kumma, and Semna. They were to prevent passage of any Nhsw downriver including shipping, caravan, or pastoral transhumants. Clearly these people were a serious force to be reckoned with and not the cowards Senwosret's boasts paint them to be. Even their merchants and cattlemen were feared as capable of successfully confronting Kmtw authority.
It seems that Kush at Kerma and above was the seat of Kmt's fear of adversarial threat from the south. And it was from there indeed that by 16th dynasty times Nhsw politcal intrigue held one third rulership over Egypt. In the words of the ruler at Thebes:
quote:"a chieftain is in Avaris and another in Kush: I sit united with an Aamy and a Nhsy, each man in possession of his slice of this Egypt."
PT 3
The phrase Kush khesyt cited ad nausea has been blown far out of proportion. An obvious play on word sounds it means defeated more so than it connotes concepts of contempt. But talk of wretched or vile Kush is irrelevant in understanding how Kmt viewed her southern neighbors and kinsmen. In war talk what enemies aren't described with deprecations? To the contrary we can see that certain families of Kush had a right to the throne of Kmt that was considered the most legitimate of all harking back to the original western (Greek) notion that Egypt originated when Aithiopians settled downriver.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis:
quote:Originally written by Donald Redford: "Kush is usually said to be 'weak/vile' ...
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
alTakruri,
Here's the fundamental rule of law of Ancient Egyptian Kingship:
"in order to be a legitimate king of Ancient Egypt, the heir apparent would have to have had a maternal descent from a sudanese (Nahasi) royal Queen-Mother (of Ta Seti)..."
The factual information you provide is instructive in the particularities of these African regimes, but wouldn't it be more clear and explicit to challenge anyone to disprove the "rule of law of Ancient Egyptian Kingship"? ...it would save a lot of time... Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
there are a number of cases where such an act may have been the legal basis for a non-royal figure's ascent of the throne. However, more usual was the succession of the eldest son, whose status as heir was frequently if not always, proclaimed during his father's lifetime.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Do you see the shill? The Sudani were the ONLY Negroes (Blacks), ergo the Ancient Egyptians were not, neither were the peoples of the fertile Saharan crescent, nor the peoples of Central Africa, nor those of West Africa; it's a load of White racialist crap which, if you buy into it, then you're a "Gotcha" sucker...
Wally are you questioning Wally Budge's dictionary now? Normally you love to quote from it.
In the mdr ntr the sphere of influence and the people depicted as foreigners in their Table of nations were people in border regions and nearby regions like Ethiopia. Many far off regions in Africa were not part of their sphere of influence, trade or expeditions. Their competition was from border and nearer nations. Therefore you can't assume they are talking about the whole continent of Africa.
Posted by Mind0verMatter718 (Member # 17548) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: there are a number of cases where such an act may have been the legal basis for a non-royal figure's ascent of the throne. However, more usual was the succession of the eldest son, whose status as heir was frequently if not always, proclaimed during his father's lifetime.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
Do you see the shill? The Sudani were the ONLY Negroes (Blacks), ergo the Ancient Egyptians were not, neither were the peoples of the fertile Saharan crescent, nor the peoples of Central Africa, nor those of West Africa; it's a load of White racialist crap which, if you buy into it, then you're a "Gotcha" sucker...
Wally are you questioning Wally Budge's dictionary now? Normally you love to quote from it.
In the mdr ntr the sphere of influence and the people depicted as foreigners in their Table of nations were people in border regions and nearby regions like Ethiopia. Many far off regions in Africa were not part of their sphere of influence, trade or expeditions. Their competition was from border and nearer nations. Therefore you can't assume they are talking about the whole continent of Africa.
Shut-up-bitch, you alcoholic!
Dont none of yall know **** about the Niggers of Africa, let alone Egypt or Ethiopia. My great great great grandfather use too beat the skin off a niggers black back. Sometimes just for fun. I'd really like to beat a Nigger myself.
Hang him up by his feet, and beat up his toes. Put a noose around his neck, and beat up his face. Tie Him to a tree and ram a pole up his azz, watch him squirm. Does that feel good Nigger?Uhuh The ill tie me a rope around his waist and drag his black azz to the pink meat.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
go home cracka
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
the lioness wrote
quote:there are a number of cases where such an act may have been the legal basis for a non-royal figure's ascent of the throne.
Now, oh consummate idiot, provide us with a single example in human history where this has actually occurred.
...and he continues his nonsense with
quote: However, more usual was the succession of the eldest son, whose status as heir was frequently if not always, proclaimed during his father's lifetime.
This is the total and absolute idiot, who assumes that patrileneal descent must apply to all cultures, even if they do practice matrileneal descent. In Ancient Egypt, it was the mother's line which determined descent to the throne; and she must be, by tradition, of Nahasi royal descent...
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
"Their competition was from border and nearer nations. Therefore you can't assume they are talking about the whole continent of Africa."
^ Not to mention strawman fallacy! Who ever said anything about the "whole" of Africa??! The point is Egypt is closely related to so-called 'Nubia' right next door-- BOTH are in Africa.
I take it I didn't miss much, from my hiatus.
I see 'Lioness' (Lion with a sex change) is still up to its lame tactics. Anything else?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Found 'em.
= = =
PT 1
As long as we continue employing the misnomer "Nubian" projected in the current literature a certain of confusion will remain in understanding mdw ntr texts. We must use the specific terms as they are in the primary sources.
If memory serves me correctly the following quote is from one of the original Sesotris:
quote: "The Nubian has but to hear (a sound) and he falls at a voice, it is merely answering him that makes him retreat; if one is agressive against him he turns tail, retreat and he becomes more aggressive. they are certainly not people to be respected: they are craven wretches. My majesty has seen them-it is not a lie."
This pharaoh is talking about his military expeditions against Wawat. Before the unification of the Two Lands, Wawat ruled up to Nag el Hasaya in what would later be the 2nd nome of Upper Egypt (Heru's Throne) immediately north of the 1st nome TaSeti.nwt. So we see there was intense rivalry between TaWy and TaSeti.x3st since predynastic times.
As we progress into the earliest dynastic era a cultural demarcation begins to distinguish the two peoples. KM.t embraced writing while TaSeti and Kesh to the south of it did not.
Getting back to the author of the above quoted inscription Sesostris III wrote it after retaking Buhen fortress. Late in 5th dynasty times Wawat took over Buhen fortress, built in the 4th dynasty by Snefru, and held it until the 12th dynasty when Sesostris took it and pillaged pastoral populations to its south. In the very next dynasty (13th) Kesh took it over holding it until the 18th dynasty.
With all this in mind we can see Sesostris III's boasts are just that, political hype. During the first 14 dynasties of its history that though TaWy built Buhen fortress (exchange place or trade center) Nehesis controlled it for 11 dynasties.
Then too in order to understand Sesostris III implied no "racial" proclivities we need to know his ancestral antecedents. We'll examine that next.
PT 2
Sesostris III (also transliterated as Senusret and Senwosret) was a 12th dynasty ruler. Senusret is a name from the Uahka family, one of whose members took on the name Amenemhet to honor Amen the major deity of Thebes in KM.t and Gebel Barkal deep in Kwsh. The 9th and 10th dynasty Uahka family of Thebes were buried in tombs of type unknown in KM.t but of design in Kush. The Uahka family has been traced back to the 6th dynasty builders of the temples at Qua near Abydos. This family established the 12th dynasty.
Amenemhet I started the 12th dynasty. He was vizier to Mentuhotep IV last pharaoh of dynasty 11. Amenemhet came to rule relying on a certain claim of ancestry and marriage as his right to attain to the rulership. The rulers of Kush were known to have a certain claim on KM.t's throne. This claim grew from the interdependencies between the two nations of KM.t and Kesh having to do with princes and princesses from Kush attending the Kmty court and marrying court members. Amenemhet records a "prophecy" foretelling his upcomance.
quote: provided by Wally (clickable link please go and read it) nswt pw r iyt n rsy imny mAa xrw rn.f sA Hmt pw n tA sty ms pw n Xn nxn iw.f r Ssp HDt iw.f r wTs dSrt iw.f smA sxmty iw.f r sHtp nbwy m mrt.sn pXr iHy m xfa wsr m nwd
There is a king who will come from the south Ameny true of voice is his name. He is the son of a woman of the Land of the Bow, he is a child of the Heartland of Nekhen. He will take up the White Crown, he will raise up the Red Crown, he will unite the Two Mighty Goddesses, he will appease the Two Lord Gods, with what they desire. The field circuit is in his grasp, the oar in the jump.
Amenemhet I warred against Wawat pushing south far enough to establish a center of trade in Kerma at the 3rd cataract. Senusret I mentions the Akherkin, Kas, Khesaa, Shat, and Shemyk among the peoples of Wawat that he subdued. Senwosret III annexed Wawat up to the 2nd cataract as the southern border of KM.t.
Because of their propensities for independence the Senwosrets found it necessary to wage war against Wawat. On their defeat a string of fortresses were built. These were at Buhen, Kor, Dorginarti, Mirgissa, Dabenarti, Askut, Shalfak, Uronarti, Kumma, and Semna. They were to prevent passage of any Nhsw downriver including shipping, caravan, or pastoral transhumants. Clearly these people were a serious force to be reckoned with and not the cowards Senwosret's boasts paint them to be. Even their merchants and cattlemen were feared as capable of successfully confronting Kmtw authority.
It seems that Kush at Kerma and above was the seat of Kmt's fear of adversarial threat from the south. And it was from there indeed that by 16th dynasty times Nhsw politcal intrigue held one third rulership over Egypt. In the words of the ruler at Thebes:
quote:"a chieftain is in Avaris and another in Kush: I sit united with an Aamy and a Nhsy, each man in possession of his slice of this Egypt."
PT 3
The phrase Kush khesyt cited ad nausea has been blown far out of proportion. An obvious play on word sounds it means defeated more so than it connotes concepts of contempt. But talk of wretched or vile Kush is irrelevant in understanding how Kmt viewed her southern neighbors and kinsmen. In war talk what enemies aren't described with deprecations? To the contrary we can see that certain families of Kush had a right to the throne of Kmt that was considered the most legitimate of all harking back to the original western (Greek) notion that Egypt originated when Aithiopians settled downriver.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis:
quote:Originally written by Donald Redford: "Kush is usually said to be 'weak/vile' ...
Th lioness should now admit defeat like a man
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I would like to thank alTakruri for posting a lot of interesting information
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I would like to thank alTakruri for posting a lot of interesting information
Yeah and he pretty muc shut down your whole argument
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
.
Let's look at some other Kings of the 12th Dynasty, Egypt:
Amenemhat I
_____________________________________________
Senusret I (Sesostris I)
_________________________________________
Amenemhat II
Amenemhat III
I think this is a fair representation
conclusively a little of this and a little of that
show me other African art which covers these variations
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
This guy "the lioness', as everyone here must be aware of is "not wrapped too tight."
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: This guy "the lioness', as everyone here must be aware of is "not wrapped too tight."
This guy "Wally" as everyone here must be aware of is wrapped a little too tight, if you know what I mean
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Perhaps the Arab turban he wears on his head is wrapped too tight and thus cutting off some circulation to parts of his brain(?0
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: The lioness should now admit defeat like a man
Funny thing is what 'man' would give himself the feminine moniker of 'lioness'? Not that the female lion is somehow a weak disgraceful creature.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
2016 update. Here on the Palermo Stone "Land of Nubians" is used instead of "Land of the Blacks" , ref. Rutgers Univ. My views on Egypt are also updated
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
Dumbass, the inscription is in Ancient Egyptian language not English.
But what's a point?
We all know Senefru pushed into Ta Naha's and established a facility at Buhen. Also roads in Sinai bear his name and Aamu Asiatic miners worshipped him as a meter god. So what's your point?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Dumbass, the inscription is in Ancient Egyptian language not English.
Did I say it wasn't. wtf ???
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Dumbass, the inscription is in Ancient Egyptian language not English.
on the Palermo Stone "Land of Nubians" is used instead of "Land of the Blacks" , ref. Rutgers Univ.
Translators words, not the Stone's.
The transliteration of what's on the Stone is some equivalent variation of Ta Nahas.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
"Land of Nubians"? Ancient Egyptians did not refer to the Southern cataract as Nubia, or the Nubians. lol Nor did they refer to themselves as Egyptians btw.lol
Let alone during the 4th dynasty. lol SMH
The blind leading the blind, with this utter nonsense. lol smh
Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
I wonder if 2016's Lioness cant recognize this as an edited nose.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
