quote:

---

Wally wrote:
The Somal people are a homogeneous, yet fractuous African ethnic group,
yet there are Paal in Somalia

---

No they are not, in somalia there is only one language and one people, no fulani language is spoken there.
 

---

Posted by The Gaul (Member # 16198) on :
 
As far as I can see, the main thing discussed on this site has to deal with origins , not what Fulbe obviously are in the present day context. A piece of roughly dated rock art, depicting an already established people and culture does little in regard to the origin question standing on it's own. Deciphering origins takes a "multi" approach with regard to ONE ethnic group. The exact same has been discussed with other groups such as Yoruba, Igbo, Akan, Zaghawa, Wolof and so forth by people who are actually of that ethny here.

Even if one wants to posit that Fulbe originated on the Arabian peninsula (I posit Nile Valley or near it in Nabta Playa/Bir Kesieba as "cattle people"), it would be foolhardy to then claim modern Fulbe are "arabs" in the present day context. Especially such a widely dispersed people who are mainly now linked by culture as Hampate Ba explained.


Sigh...the OP has designed the thread to devolve into the usual internet pee-wee football game of blue team vs. red team instead of fruitful discussion.

I'll step aside and get my popcorn ready.

back at ya!
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 
Does anyone have proof that the Fulani as a tribe called Fulani or Fula, etc. existed before the 7th century? I think what's easier, more direct, and more sensible is to let the Fulani be what their forefathers said that they are.

Look at the chart here and observe what the Fulani have always said about their origin:

http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211

Look at what the Fulani said - not what others said. Why can't we just let the Fulani be what they said they are??? Wouldn't that be easier, more direct, and more sensible?
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Ah, the madness continues!

Let me repeat.

quote:

---

From the opening post:

If a people do not call themselves Fulbe
and a people do not speak Fulfulde/Pulaar
then that people are not Fulani, period.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
... There is, therefore, no such thing as "Fulani
madness"

. . . .

b) The Paal formed an ethnic component of the multi-ethnic nationality to
whom we now refer to as "Ancient Egyptians"


...this topic is pointless...

---

quote:

---

there is no such thing as
is PAAL, apparently a freshly
made up word serving as further
symptom of Fulani Madness that
mental illness suffered by non-
Fulani who would use the Fulani
to serve their own pet theory.

---

a) Peul, Pel, Paal are different ways of writing the SAME word, and NONE
of these words are "made up."

b) NO African American is a non-Fulani; virtually EVERY African American
has Fulani ancestry...

c) There is NOTHING exceptional or special about the Fulani (Peul, Pel, Paal) people.
They are no more nor less remarkable than any other African ethnic group;
any such distinction resides only within the minds of the members
of their respective ethnicity (such as first appearing on the planet in West Africa!).

...this topic is pointless... and I'm done with it.
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
Wow
I don't see no ''origin'' fuss about Congo or Zimbabwean people.
It's always the elongated or intermediate types that get claimed.
I wonder what they'd make of these discussions
Oh well..

 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
AlTakruri!! Hah hah Lol you had me going for a sec.

quote:

---

The only origin absurdity so far missing is that Fulani do descend
from one Titus Pullo.

---

...

From the H.B.O series Rome..
 

---

Posted by The Gaul (Member # 16198) on :
 

quote:

---

Wow
I don't see no ''origin'' fuss about Congo or Zimbabwean people.
It's always the elongated or intermediate types that get claimed.
I wonder what they'd make of these discussions
Oh well..

---

Since when are Fulbe "elongated" or "intermediate"?? This some sort of delineator from other West African people?

As stated earlier

quote:

---

The exact same has been discussed with other groups such as Yoruba, Igbo, Akan, Zaghawa, Wolof and so forth by people who are actually of that ethny here.

---

Perhaps you weren't around then as indeed nothing is special in that regard with regard to Fulbe. Origin discussions are always more lively no matter what people it is.

As regards to the topic, as was hashed previously in the 20 page thread of '09, sanity can be found from the likes of Aboubacry Moussa Lam, Chiek Anta Diop, Yoro Dyao, Babacar Sall, et al along with other evidences observed and discussed. Madness can stay here with the Haabe , self-appointed fake authorities with boxed-in, self-serving definitions on "origins" and the like.

What is Fulbe? This is Fulbe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqwuMI13p80

Beautifully singing the praises from Fouta Tooro to Macina and Mopti, Sekou Amadou to Amadou Sekou. This rest is objective internet posturing not seen in the real world with regard to said origins. Stepping out.
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Kalonji

quote:

---

Wow
I don't see no ''origin'' fuss about Congo or Zimbabwean people.
It's always the elongated or intermediate types that get claimed

---

Well from my little piece of green colored rock called Jamaica called we never heard anything about no Fulani but they give nuff respect to Ethiopians..but claim decent whether true or not to Ashanti and Kromanti..and some beat drums called Bongo and said them come from the Congo

http://svr1.cg971.fr/lameca/dossiers/musique_marronne/eng/p2.htm

But the Fulani seems nice enough..African folks a African folks...
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gaul:
Since when are Fulbe "elongated" or "intermediate"?? [Confused] This some sort of delineator from other West African people?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Kalonji

quote:

---

Wow
I don't see no ''origin'' fuss about Congo or Zimbabwean people.
It's always the elongated or intermediate types that get claimed

---

Well from my little piece of green colored rock called Jamaica called we never heard anything about no Fulani but they give nuff respect to Ethiopians..but claim decent whether true or not to Ashanti and Kromanti..and some beat drums called Bongo and said them come from the Congo

http://svr1.cg971.fr/lameca/dossiers/musique_marronne/eng/p2.htm

But the Fulani seems nice enough..African folks a African folks...

---

quote:

---

It's always the elongated or intermediate types and populations with seemingly non-African and/or ''higher'' cultural traits that get claimed.

---

Well that's depends on who is doing the claiming because such as I pointed out is not univeresal..and higher cultural traits ?? I don't see how the Fulanis are more culturally developed than the Akan or the Congo..perhaps you mean that because they did not have letters or something like that?? But they built their cities carry on long distance trade and made cultural impact near and far..see Ashanti Gold weights..as mimiac devices, But this is not to start a cultural war between Akan/Congo vs Sahel groups..
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
^I was referring to the Ashanti kingdom. One of the earliest in West Africa.
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Well that would be an interesting comparision as they both started to expand and develope around the same time.

gonna step out for a bit lets do some comparing..continue to post please..
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 
Have you all seen what the Fulani themselves have been saying about their origin?

http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211

Why can't everyone just accept that and get over it? I don't understand the reluctance (or outright refusal) to accept their Arab origin. Is it political? Racial? I don't understand.
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
^Boy,
Am I glad I didn't buy your book
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
^Boy,
Am I glad I didn't buy your book

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Your positions have been demolished (all of them) in the other thread, and you show no signs of even understanding the foundations used to come to the indigenous fulani conclusion, let alone refraning from using outdated methods such as local oral traditions/foreign oral traditions. Nothing you refer to is from someone respectable, and you have even questioned the usefulness of genetics.

And then you proceed to accuse others of having a wall in their head?

Why should you not fall under the definition of a troll?

-You rarely answer all questions forwarded to you
-You reply selectively
-You keep spouting your agenda that has been demonstrated to be defunct by multiple posters

Go back to your social circle where your assertions will be accepted without proper scrutiny, and come back when you are ready to confront multi disciplinary research that has accumulated so far.

---

So that's your response to my question???
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
^Yes, and your response above is exactly what I meant with ''selectively replying''.
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Awlaadberry

Your linked source http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211 is making claims by mostly European observers..who had in mind the Hamitic concept based on their slender builds,angular features..and sometimes liter-skinned complexion..we have subsequently move beyond that as we have genetics and linguistics

Abstract



Despite the large size of the contemporary nomadic Fulani population (roughly 13 million people), the genetic diversity and degree of differentiation of Fulanis compared to other sub-Saharan populations remain unknown. We sampled four Fulani nomad populations (n = 186) in three countries of sub-Saharan Africa (Chad, Cameroon, and Burkina Faso) and analyzed sequences of the first hypervariable segment of the mitochondrial DNA. Most of the haplotypes belong to haplogroups of West African origin, such as L1b, L3b, L3d, L2b, L2c, and L2d (79.6% in total), which are all well represented in each of the four geographically separated samples The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin, such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total). As in African hunter-gatherers (Pygmies and Khoisan) and some populations from central Tunisia (Kesra and Zriba), three of the Fulani nomad samples do not reveal significant negative values of Fu's selective neutrality test. The multidimensional scaling of FST genetic distances of related sub-Saharan populations and the analysis of molecular variance (AMOVA) show clear and close relationships between all pairs of the four Fulani nomad samples, irrespective of their geographic origin. The only group of nomadic Fulani that manifests some similarities with geographically related agricultural populations (from Guinea-Bissau and Nigeria) comes from Tcheboua in northern Cameroon.
http://www.mamiwata.com/fulani.html
The high-lighted points tells us that the Fulanis are in the main a West-African people.. now they do carry J1b, U5, H, and V which indicates some Eurasian genes amongst them(mostly likely stemming from Islamic contact era) but they are in the main West-Africans.

They linguistically Fula belongs to the Atlantic branch of the Niger-Congo language family.




The above is showing that they have been in West Africa for a very long time leaving their art on the rocks in Southern Algeria.
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
^Awlaad, put that in your pipe and smoke it!
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

Your linked source http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211 is making claims by mostly European observers..who had in mind the Hamitic concept based on their slender builds,angular features..and sometimes liter-skinned complexion..we have subsequently move beyond that as we have genetics and linguistics

Abstract



Despite the large size of the contemporary nomadic Fulani population (roughly 13 million people), the genetic diversity and degree of differentiation of Fulanis compared to other sub-Saharan populations remain unknown. We sampled four Fulani nomad populations (n = 186) in three countries of sub-Saharan Africa (Chad, Cameroon, and Burkina Faso) and analyzed sequences of the first hypervariable segment of the mitochondrial DNA. Most of the haplotypes belong to haplogroups of West African origin, such as L1b, L3b, L3d, L2b, L2c, and L2d (79.6% in total), which are all well represented in each of the four geographically separated samples The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin, such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total). As in African hunter-gatherers (Pygmies and Khoisan) and some populations from central Tunisia (Kesra and Zriba), three of the Fulani nomad samples do not reveal significant negative values of Fu's selective neutrality test. The multidimensional scaling of FST genetic distances of related sub-Saharan populations and the analysis of molecular variance (AMOVA) show clear and close relationships between all pairs of the four Fulani nomad samples, irrespective of their geographic origin. The only group of nomadic Fulani that manifests some similarities with geographically related agricultural populations (from Guinea-Bissau and Nigeria) comes from Tcheboua in northern Cameroon.
http://www.mamiwata.com/fulani.html
The high-lighted points tells us that the Fulanis are in the main a West-African people.. now they do carry J1b, U5, H, and V which indicates some Eurasian genes amongst them(mostly likely stemming from Islamic contact era) but they are in the main West-Africans.

They linguistically Fula belongs to the Atlantic branch of the Niger-Congo language family.




The above is showing that they have been in West Africa for a very long time leaving their art on the rocks in Southern Algeria.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

[QUOTE] Concerning the paintings, where does it say that they are Fulani?

As for these DNA tests, WHO IS BEING COMPARED TO WHOM. Because their DNA matches with "other groups in the area" doesn't say much. Who are these other groups and where are they from originally? And which Arabs doesn't their DNA match with? Do you understand my questions and the reason I'm asking them?

Well it is found in Southern Algeria same locations as the ones on your link but not posted but can you not see the same totemic hairstyles of the people who still lived in that general area? these [B]J1b, U5, H, and V shows that yes there was mixture..small but still there

For Yemeni dna

The rapid mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y-chromosome microsatellites permits estimates of lineage expansion age and of the most probable geographic origin of these expansions [16,17]. Only two studies regarding the Arabian Peninsula have been based on mtDNA. Lineage classification of a small sample of 29 Bedouins [18] revealed that 25 (86%) had a Eurasian origin, two (7%) belonged to the sub-Saharan Africa L0 and L2 haplogroups, and two were left undetermined. A study of 115 Yemeni mtDNAs showed that Eurasian-specific and African-specific lineages existed in almost equal proportion in that southern Arabian Peninsula sample [19

Notice it is almost the reversed distribution 8% in the case of the Fulani Eurasian genes and 7% among south Arabians.

Again there is notthing posted here that suggest noo..Eurasian mixture but wholesale immigration??..if we reverse the situation for a bit the African dna found in Yemen does that suggest Yemenis are basically west Africans L2...but what it does show that there was a lot of crossings from the Horn into Arabia.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/32
please check out the link^

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
a) Peul, Pel, Paal are different ways of writing the SAME word, and NONE
of these words are "made up."

---

quote:

---

...this topic is pointless...

---

quote:

---

and I'm done with it.

---

quote:

---

his won't be clear to scientist until they understand that the pure Arab type is no different in appearance from the "East African" type.

---

Please do not mixed phenotype and genotype that's one of the things that trip alotta people up when they start getting into it for example

This^ is the Soloman Island Prime Minister he is clearly black but Asian..not African different genetic pool from say this guy the Vice President of the Democratic Republic of Congo Yerodia^ who is African and equally Black with rounded features..The Soloman Prime Minister is closer genetically to The Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong than he is to the vice Premier of the Congo.

We had long very heated on going arguments about this very topic with some of the other board members pro and con.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Well with the Fulani Madness I've seen around here
lately the only thing keeping ol' Titus from being
our kind of Pullo is that on cable he was white.

If someone here had came across him in J Ceasar's
writings they would've latched onto his gentilicium
and made a Fulani out of him without any other evidence.

BTW - 19th century/early 20th century Africanist
did consider an alternative that the Fulani were
fathered by lost members of a Roman legion that
supposedly ventured to Agisymba.

Ah, so many have suffered this Fulani Madness.
So many still suffer Fulani Madness even now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
AlTakruri!! Hah hah Lol you had me going for a sec.

quote:

---

The only origin absurdity so far missing is that Fulani do descend
from one Titus Pullo.

---

...

From the H.B.O series Rome..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
What must be understood is that those bediouns who were tested where more than likely very mixed with non-Arab Roman, Persian, Turkish, etc blood and are not good representatives od Arab DNA. And what scientists are calling "African" DNA is probably what should be called Arab DNA. This won't be clear to scientist until they understand that the pure Arab type is no different in appearance from the "East African" type.

---

Then this discussion should be over according to your own words. Note:

The most numerous haplogroups are L3b (determined by the motif 16124, 16223, 16278, and 16362) and L3d (determined by the motif 16124 and 16223); these two haplogroups could not be distinguished from each other when only the HVS-I sequence was available. However, because both share the same geographic origin in West Africa,

The second well-diversified haplogroup found in the Fulani nomads sample is L1b (50 sequences, 10 haplotypes), with the determining HVS-I motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, 16264, 16270, 16278, and 16311, the origin of which also lies in West Africa (Salas et al. 2002, 2004).

All the other haplogroups identified are represented by conspicuously lower numbers; the most numerous among them, comparatively speaking, are L2b and L2c, which are also of West African origin.

Put that in your pipe too.. since the metaphorical tabacco of the first study and rock painting was clearly not enough..
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Yeeso wamnde kaado.

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Gaul:
Madness can stay here with the Haabe , self-appointed fake authorities with boxed-in, self-serving definitions on "origins" and the like.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

Your linked source http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211 is making claims by mostly European observers..who had in mind the Hamitic concept based on their slender builds,angular features..and sometimes liter-skinned complexion..we have subsequently move beyond that as we have genetics and linguistics

Abstract



Despite the large size of the contemporary nomadic Fulani population (roughly 13 million people), the genetic diversity and degree of differentiation of Fulanis compared to other sub-Saharan populations remain unknown. We sampled four Fulani nomad populations (n = 186) in three countries of sub-Saharan Africa (Chad, Cameroon, and Burkina Faso) and analyzed sequences of the first hypervariable segment of the mitochondrial DNA. Most of the haplotypes belong to haplogroups of West African origin, such as L1b, L3b, L3d, L2b, L2c, and L2d (79.6% in total), which are all well represented in each of the four geographically separated samples The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin, such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total). As in African hunter-gatherers (Pygmies and Khoisan) and some populations from central Tunisia (Kesra and Zriba), three of the Fulani nomad samples do not reveal significant negative values of Fu's selective neutrality test. The multidimensional scaling of FST genetic distances of related sub-Saharan populations and the analysis of molecular variance (AMOVA) show clear and close relationships between all pairs of the four Fulani nomad samples, irrespective of their geographic origin. The only group of nomadic Fulani that manifests some similarities with geographically related agricultural populations (from Guinea-Bissau and Nigeria) comes from Tcheboua in northern Cameroon.
http://www.mamiwata.com/fulani.html
The high-lighted points tells us that the Fulanis are in the main a West-African people.. now they do carry J1b, U5, H, and V which indicates some Eurasian genes amongst them(mostly likely stemming from Islamic contact era) but they are in the main West-Africans.

They linguistically Fula belongs to the Atlantic branch of the Niger-Congo language family.




The above is showing that they have been in West Africa for a very long time leaving their art on the rocks in Southern Algeria.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

quote:

---

his won't be clear to scientist until they understand that the pure Arab type is no different in appearance from the "East African" type.

---

Please do not mixed phenotype and genotype that's one of the things that trip alotta people up when they start getting into it for example

This^ is the Soloman Island Prime Minister he is clearly black but Asian..not African different genetic pool from say this guy the Vice President of the Democratic Republic of Congo Yerodia^ who is African and equally Black with rounded features..The Soloman Prime Minister is closer genetically to The Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong than he is to the vice Premier of the Congo.

We had long very heated on going arguments about this very topic with some of the other board members pro and con.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

One's physical appearance comes from his/her genes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
The nrY Chromosome used in population genetics is not a gene.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

One's physical appearance comes from his/her genes.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

quote:

---

his won't be clear to scientist until they understand that the pure Arab type is no different in appearance from the "East African" type.

---

Please do not mixed phenotype and genotype that's one of the things that trip alotta people up when they start getting into it for example

This^ is the Soloman Island Prime Minister he is clearly black but Asian..not African different genetic pool from say this guy the Vice President of the Democratic Republic of Congo Yerodia^ who is African and equally Black with rounded features..The Soloman Prime Minister is closer genetically to The Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong than he is to the vice Premier of the Congo.

We had long very heated on going arguments about this very topic with some of the other board members pro and con.

---

quote:

---

One's physical appearance comes from his/her genes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

quote:

---

his won't be clear to scientist until they understand that the pure Arab type is no different in appearance from the "East African" type.

---

Please do not mixed phenotype and genotype that's one of the things that trip alotta people up when they start getting into it for example

This^ is the Soloman Island Prime Minister he is clearly black but Asian..not African different genetic pool from say this guy the Vice President of the Democratic Republic of Congo Yerodia^ who is African and equally Black with rounded features..The Soloman Prime Minister is closer genetically to The Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong than he is to the vice Premier of the Congo.

We had long very heated on going arguments about this very topic with some of the other board members pro and con.

---

What made the Soloman Prime Minister's and DRC President's hair curly and what made the Chinese Vice President's hair straight? What made the Soloman Prime Minister's and the DRC President's skin brown and what made the Chinese Vice President's skin light? Isn't it genes?

---

Chant my brother, teach them
what IronLion couldnot get
into their heads.

Salaam

IronLion
 

---

Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundjata:

quote:

---

One's physical appearance comes from his/her genes.

---

But it comes from very few genes and in their case, not the same genes. Look up the term "convergent evolution". The Solomon Prime Minister has more genes in common with the Chinese vice president as most genes aren't for the purpose of expressing phenotype.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundjata:

quote:

---

One's physical appearance comes from his/her genes.

---

But it comes from very few genes and in their case, not the same genes. Look up the term "convergent evolution". The Solomon Prime Minister has more genes in common with the Chinese vice president as most genes aren't for the purpose of expressing phenotype.

---

But we are speaking about the genes which express phenotype because we are talking about physical characteristics.

Take a look at how close the two areas are to each other. What would make the people so genetically different?


 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Awlaadberry

quote:

---

But we are speaking about the genes which express phenotype because we are talking about physical characteristics.

Take a look at how close the two areas are to each other. What would make the people so genetically different?

---

quote:

---

From what I understand the authors of that study made it pretty obvious that the "Eurasian" tagged genes (8.1%)wern't in fact introduced during the Islamic area or by people we consider non-African but by "Fulani like peoples", i.e. Tuareg other Berbers. And from what I understand many bloggers and scientists are starting to doubt the non-African origin of many of these eurasian tagged genes, for example the recent doubt of the refugium theory.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Awlaadberry

quote:

---

But we are speaking about the genes which express phenotype because we are talking about physical characteristics.

Take a look at how close the two areas are to each other. What would make the people so genetically different?

---

The answer from what I understand is time the further and longer one travels away from Africa the greater the genetic distance, however physical characteristics can be maintained through similar environment..for example a tropical people will maintain their phenotype if the moved to a similar place..but changes begin to take place in a dis-similar environment it's called micro-evolution,this happens within Africa it self with it's deserts,forested areas,mountains,Savannahs etc.

---

The only people who "traveled away from Africa" are people in areas such as what we call today Senegal, Mali, Ghana, Guinea, Angola, Morocco, etc. However, Yemenis, for example, are as close to Abyssinnians as they have always been.


 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Does anyone know why Fulani in some parts of so called "west" Africa are regarded as second class citizens and are on the streets begging for handouts? Anyone?


I read this on an African website.
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 


Ok!! what do you called this huge landmass^Lumaria?..com on man you know very well that mankind arised in East- AFRICA and dispersed out wards.

The Southern Dispersal Route refers to a theory concerning an early migration of modern human beings from southern Africa to the east along the coastlines of Africa, Arabia and India to Australia and Melanesia between about 70,000 and 45,000 years ago. The original Out-of-Africa theory said modern Homo sapiens came northward out from Africa about 45,000 years ago, and then diverged along different routes to Europe and Siberia and South Asia. Archaeologists still believe a wave occurred to the north, but growing evidence supports this earlier southern route into South Asia.

The theory goes that modern H. sapiens with a generalized subsistence strategy based on hunting and gathering coastal resources (shellfish, fish, sea lions and rodents, as well as bovids and antelope), traveled along the coasts eastward. On the way, they undoubtedly met other hominins (such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo erectus and/or Neanderthals), probably replacing them, and colonizing the subcontinent of India, reaching Australia by 40,000 years ago.

Southern Dispersal Route: Evidence
The evidence supporting the Southern Dispersal Route includes similarities in stone tools and symbolic behaviors at Middle Paleolithic South African Howiesons Poort/Stillbay sites such as Blombos Cave and Klasies River Caves and sites such as Mumba Rockshelter (Tanzania), Enkapune Ya Muto (Kenya), Jwalapuram and Patne (India) and Batadomba-lena (Sri Lanka).

The appearance in Australia of 40,000-year-old sites occupied by modern humans such as Lake Mungo and Devil's Lair, and of Niah Cave on the island of Borneo, and genetic studies which support the colonization of South Asia by Africans are contributory evidence to the Southern Dispersal Route.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Have not posted in a awhile, So let me just say that the Fulani belong to West Africa.

If there is communties in other parts of Africa thats because they travelled from West to East.

Reasons for this has already been spoken of by alTakruri and others.

I also undertsand where awalaadberri is saying when he says Arabs and East Africans have things in common. That early Arab looked like East Africans.

What we must understand is that if there is any connections, it's an African Background, since Africans are the first people.

Peace

---

But even IF people originated in what you call "Africa" and IF the Arabs were there first and then moved to the Arabian Peninsula, they were still Arabs and not "Africans". Whatever side of that narrow body of water they were on, they were Arabs. Nor were the Fulanis "Africans" 100 years ago.

This is an 18th century Fulani who was captured and taken to America. His name is Ayoub ibn Sulaiman. Was he Arab or "African"?




Ayuba Suleiman Diallo (1701–1773), also known as Job ben Solomon, was a famous Muslim slave who was a victim of the Atlantic slave trade. Born in Bondu, Senegal West Africa, Ayuba's memoirs were published as one of the earliest slave narratives, that is, a first-person account of the slave trade, in Thomas Bluett's Some Memories of the Life of Job, the Son of the Solomon High Priest of Boonda in Africa; Who was a Slave about two Years in Maryland; and afterwards being brought to England, was set free, and sent to his native Land in the Year 1734.

He came from a prominent Fulbe family of Muslim religious leaders. His grandfather had founded the town of Bondu, and he grew up with Sambo the heir to the Kingdom of Futa. In 1730, while on a trip to the Gambia River to sell two slaves and to buy supplies like paper, Ayuba was captured by a group of Mandingoes.[1] Ayuba became a victim of the ever-growing slave exploitation of the Senegambia region. Before being boarded on his ship to the New World, Ayuba attempted to negotiate a slave exchange with the captain. However, the word did not reach his father in time, and Ayuba was taken aboard. Ayuba was transported to Annapolis, Maryland, where he was purchased by Mr. Tolsey of Kent Island, Maryland. Ayuba was initially put to work in the tobacco fields; however, after being found unsuitable for such work, he was placed in charge of the cattle. While in captivity, Ayuba used to go into the woods to pray. However, after being humiliated by a child while praying, Ayuba chose to run away. He was captured and imprisoned at the Kent County Courthouse. It was there that he was discovered by a lawyer, Thomas Bluett, traveling through on business...

Notice that he lived between 1701 and 1773. So look at the chart found here and notice what the Fulanis in Futa Jallon were calling themselves in the 1790s:

http://www.jamtan.com/jamtan/fulani.cfm?chap=2&linksPage=211

As you can see, they were calling themselves Arabs. Do you believe that Ayoub ibn Sulaiman called himself Arab or "African"?
 

---

Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Ok!! what do you called this huge landmass^Lumaria?..com on man you know very well that mankind arised in East- AFRICA and dispersed out wards.

The Southern Dispersal Route refers to a theory concerning an early migration of modern human beings from southern Africa to the east along the coastlines of Africa, Arabia and India to Australia and Melanesia between about 70,000 and 45,000 years ago. The original Out-of-Africa theory said modern Homo sapiens came northward out from Africa about 45,000 years ago, and then diverged along different routes to Europe and Siberia and South Asia. Archaeologists still believe a wave occurred to the north, but growing evidence supports this earlier southern route into South Asia.

The theory goes that modern H. sapiens with a generalized subsistence strategy based on hunting and gathering coastal resources (shellfish, fish, sea lions and rodents, as well as bovids and antelope), traveled along the coasts eastward. On the way, they undoubtedly met other hominins (such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo erectus and/or Neanderthals), probably replacing them, and colonizing the subcontinent of India, reaching Australia by 40,000 years ago.

Southern Dispersal Route: Evidence
The evidence supporting the Southern Dispersal Route includes similarities in stone tools and symbolic behaviors at Middle Paleolithic South African Howiesons Poort/Stillbay sites such as Blombos Cave and Klasies River Caves and sites such as Mumba Rockshelter (Tanzania), Enkapune Ya Muto (Kenya), Jwalapuram and Patne (India) and Batadomba-lena (Sri Lanka).

The appearance in Australia of 40,000-year-old sites occupied by modern humans such as Lake Mungo and Devil's Lair, and of Niah Cave on the island of Borneo, and genetic studies which support the colonization of South Asia by Africans are contributory evidence to the Southern Dispersal Route.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Ok!! what do you called this huge landmass^Lumaria?..com on man you know very well that mankind arised in East- AFRICA and dispersed out wards.

The Southern Dispersal Route refers to a theory concerning an early migration of modern human beings from southern Africa to the east along the coastlines of Africa, Arabia and India to Australia and Melanesia between about 70,000 and 45,000 years ago. The original Out-of-Africa theory said modern Homo sapiens came northward out from Africa about 45,000 years ago, and then diverged along different routes to Europe and Siberia and South Asia. Archaeologists still believe a wave occurred to the north, but growing evidence supports this earlier southern route into South Asia.

The theory goes that modern H. sapiens with a generalized subsistence strategy based on hunting and gathering coastal resources (shellfish, fish, sea lions and rodents, as well as bovids and antelope), traveled along the coasts eastward. On the way, they undoubtedly met other hominins (such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo erectus and/or Neanderthals), probably replacing them, and colonizing the subcontinent of India, reaching Australia by 40,000 years ago.

Southern Dispersal Route: Evidence
The evidence supporting the Southern Dispersal Route includes similarities in stone tools and symbolic behaviors at Middle Paleolithic South African Howiesons Poort/Stillbay sites such as Blombos Cave and Klasies River Caves and sites such as Mumba Rockshelter (Tanzania), Enkapune Ya Muto (Kenya), Jwalapuram and Patne (India) and Batadomba-lena (Sri Lanka).

The appearance in Australia of 40,000-year-old sites occupied by modern humans such as Lake Mungo and Devil's Lair, and of Niah Cave on the island of Borneo, and genetic studies which support the colonization of South Asia by Africans are contributory evidence to the Southern Dispersal Route.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm

---

He'll soak up nothing you say.
It is the old conflict between the noah's dispersed descendants and ooa. He has already demonstrated in the other discussion that he doesn't acknowledge simple concepts such as ''Africa'' and ''multi disciplinary science'', what's even worse, is that he doesn't even offer sound reasoning for why those concepts and findings should be questioned. Instead he will just reply selectively to what is convenient for him. You know someone is a complete douchebag when he implies that Arabians are closer to Africa than West Africans are.
It boggles my mind that people like him are alowed to teach/publish books. Good thing there is such a thing as quoting references. His reluctance to utilise modern references and ''get with the program'' should expose his unsourced fantasies.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
It's clear that you haven't noticed yet that I don't reply to childish statements. Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is. Who said that "African" is a simple concept??? It isn't a simple concept at all. It is a VERY misleading concept. And what "program" should I get with???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
It's clear that you haven't noticed yet that I don't reply to childish statements. Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is. Who said that "African" is a simple concept??? It isn't a simple concept at all. It is a VERY misleading concept. And what "program" should I get with???

---

My posts weren't meant to evoke a reply. I have already noticed that you reply selectively, so why would I? They are meant to critisize your work so posters and lurkers who had intentions of buying your book know who they're dealing with and that is: someone who isn't open to other scholars/students but who is only interested in getting his own agenda out, using outdated methods.

First of all, the land of Cush..? We are not living in the ancient times, why do you keep reasoning from outdated standpoints? I don't know about other African people, but I certainly don't want to live in a continent that bears the name of my skin color. That is one of the reasons why the word ''negro'' became defunct. It doesn't denote culture, region, nor is it a translation of an admirable or positive connotation, like Noah for example means peaceful. It just denotes a skin color.

Secondly, Africa was never meant to denote ''the land of Kush''. The word ''Africa'' denotes a continent. See, some sensible people like to use words that are tied to one concrete thing, instead of using abstract words to refer to continental Africa like ''Kush'' ''Libya'' ''Sudan'' ''moor'' ''Ethiopia'' that have historical baggage and malleable meanings that can not only change at the whim of the person who uses it in modern times, but also in ancient times. You're basically using words that already had differing meanings in ancient times depending on the person, and now after all political and racial history, you're adding another layer of confusion to the terms when you using it from your own perspective. This is very similar to what someone has tried to tell you earlier about your word use of ''semitic'' when you used it in the non-linguistical way.

And the program is, beside the above:

Where an individual looks for his origins, or even his populations origins, has little use in identifying their factual origins. Where it does have use, is at a sociological level, when studying cultural phenomenon. Outside of that, and in anthropological realms, it becomes nothing more than an interesting hypothesis that one can objectively test with genetic tests and other lines of evidence already forwarded to you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

You say:

"the land of Cush..? We are not living in the ancient times"

But I thought we were talking about history.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"why do you keep reasoning from outdated standpoints?"

What makes them outdated?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"..It doesn't denote culture, region, nor is it a translation of an admirable or positive connotation"

What about "Africa"? Does it do these things? How?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"Secondly, Africa was never meant to denote ''the land of Kush''. The word ''Africa'' denotes a continent."

Who gave it this name and who decided its boundaries? Is Madagascar included? If so, what makes it included?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Proximity? Arabia is closer.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Do you actually believe that these man-made divisions of the world into different continents with specific names actually mean anything when it comes to history and the origins of people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You have this picture in your mind of something called "Africa" with homogeneous people with one culture and one origin and who are different from people from an area a stone's throw away but not in what you call "Africa". That picture in your mind is totaly wrong.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You're using a term (Africa) that was given to you by European outsiders - a term that the people living in the area didn't use to describe themselves until VERY recently. So why are you so stuck on this meaningless term?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"This is very similar to what someone has tried to tell you earlier about your word use of ''semitic'' when you used it in the non-linguistical way"

Semitic means from Sam no matter what wat you look at it. When Jewish people use the term "anti-semitic" (and they use it inappropriately I must add because they aren't Semites, but Japhetic descendants of Ashkenaz), do you think they mean language?

---

mendacious.
Israeli people are related to other middle easterners. Palistinians and Israeli's are closer related genetically than either are to Arabs and Europeans.
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
AwlaadBerry if your point of view is one of a religious vs a scientific nature, then I yield the floor because we are not even speaking the same language, and the discussion becomes rather circular.. for while science is self correcting religion is not!! because "GOD"..said!!! ...Arabia is a place and Arabs are a people Africans are not..for the green/dry phase Sahara counted for naught..and dispersal through-out Lemuria for you hate the term "African" didn't take place..and that the Earth?? or that big blue and white thingy floating in space is the center of the universe..
 

---

Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
 
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
AwlaadBerry if your point of view is one of a religious vs a scientific nature, then I yield the floor because we are not even speaking the same language, and the discussion becomes rather circular.. for while science is self correcting religion is not!! because "GOD"..said!!! ...Arabia is a place and Arabs are a people Africans are not..for the green/dry phase Sahara counted for naught..and dispersal through-out Lemuria for you hate the term "African" didn't take place..and that the Earth?? or that big blue and white thingy floating in space is the center of the universe..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

You say:

"the land of Cush..? We are not living in the ancient times"

But I thought we were talking about history.

---

So..?
Does that justify using their feeble terms..?
What you're saying right now is the equivalent of saying: you mean the earth is not flat? But we're talking about history!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"why do you keep reasoning from outdated standpoints?"

What makes them outdated?

---

I have already answered this Awlaad. Look for ''layers of confusion''.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"..It doesn't denote culture, region, nor is it a translation of an admirable or positive connotation"

What about "Africa"? Does it do these things? How?

---

It may not. It is still better than ''land of Cush''. And until something indigenous is found (I'm not sure it isn't) that is equally widespread, I will keep using it for the sake of Intelligibility.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"Secondly, Africa was never meant to denote ''the land of Kush''. The word ''Africa'' denotes a continent."

Who gave it this name and who decided its boundaries? Is Madagascar included? If so, what makes it included?

---

Reason.
No other country availible other then mozambique.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Proximity? Arabia is closer.

---

It is attached to Eurasia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Do you actually believe that these man-made divisions of the world into different continents with specific names actually mean anything when it comes to history and the origins of people.

---

Yours aren't man made? Arab isn't man made? True, they have some flaws, what hasn't? Until a better system is provided it will do fine, just as it has in the past centuries.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You have this picture in your mind of something called "Africa" with homogeneous people with one culture and one origin and who are different from people from an area a stone's throw away but not in what you call "Africa". That picture in your mind is totaly wrong.

---

Strawman alarm.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You're using a term (Africa) that was given to you by European outsiders - a term that the people living in the area didn't use to describe themselves until VERY recently. So why are you so stuck on this meaningless term?

---

Exactly, if they have accepted it, what would they care if outsiders like us (I'm carribean) have problems with it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"This is very similar to what someone has tried to tell you earlier about your word use of ''semitic'' when you used it in the non-linguistical way"

Semitic means from Sam no matter what wat you look at it. When Jewish people use the term "anti-semitic" (and they use it inappropriately I must add because they aren't Semites, but Japhetic descendants of Ashkenaz), do you think they mean language?

---

mendacious.
Israeli people are related to other middle easterners. Palistinians and Israeli's are closer related genetically than either are to Arabs and Europeans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Then read it again..
If it still doesn't make sense, tell me what part and I'll explain myself better.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by argyle104:
Does anyone know why Fulani in some parts of so called "west" Africa are regarded as second class citizens and are on the streets begging for handouts? Anyone?


I read this on an African website.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

You say:

"the land of Cush..? We are not living in the ancient times"

But I thought we were talking about history.

---

So..?
Does that justify using their feeble terms..?
What you're saying right now is the equivalent of saying: you mean the earth is not flat? But we're talking about history!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"why do you keep reasoning from outdated standpoints?"

What makes them outdated?

---

I have already answered this Awlaad. Look for ''layers of confusion''.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"..It doesn't denote culture, region, nor is it a translation of an admirable or positive connotation"

What about "Africa"? Does it do these things? How?

---

It may not. It is still better than ''land of Cush''. And until something indigenous is found (I'm not sure it isn't) that is equally widespread, I will keep using it for the sake of Intelligibility.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"Secondly, Africa was never meant to denote ''the land of Kush''. The word ''Africa'' denotes a continent."

Who gave it this name and who decided its boundaries? Is Madagascar included? If so, what makes it included?

---

Reason.
No other country availible other then mozambique.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Proximity? Arabia is closer.

---

It is attached to Eurasia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Do you actually believe that these man-made divisions of the world into different continents with specific names actually mean anything when it comes to history and the origins of people.

---

Yours aren't man made? Arab isn't man made? True, they have some flaws, what hasn't? Until a better system is provided it will do fine, just as it has in the past centuries.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You have this picture in your mind of something called "Africa" with homogeneous people with one culture and one origin and who are different from people from an area a stone's throw away but not in what you call "Africa". That picture in your mind is totaly wrong.

---

Strawman alarm.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You're using a term (Africa) that was given to you by European outsiders - a term that the people living in the area didn't use to describe themselves until VERY recently. So why are you so stuck on this meaningless term?

---

Exactly, if they have accepted it, what would they care if outsiders like us (I'm carribean) have problems with it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say:

"This is very similar to what someone has tried to tell you earlier about your word use of ''semitic'' when you used it in the non-linguistical way"

Semitic means from Sam no matter what wat you look at it. When Jewish people use the term "anti-semitic" (and they use it inappropriately I must add because they aren't Semites, but Japhetic descendants of Ashkenaz), do you think they mean language?

---

mendacious.
Israeli people are related to other middle easterners. Palistinians and Israeli's are closer related genetically than either are to Arabs and Europeans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by IronLion:
Either you cannot express yourself clearly or you are just expressing a concept that has no sense or clarity...

Be precise, direct, and short. Be clear, develope your arguments and stop your annoying habit of citing works you barely understand.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

---

The man is not a convert to Islam. What makes you say that??? And you mean migrant Arab men marrying women in the area - not Fulani women per se because the Fulani as a tribe were formed after the union. Concerning your question how can I prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia, I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove - that they migrated there or that they are from Arabia. I can prove that they migrated by the fact that they are there now while their original homeland is Arabia. And there are also some Fulani in the east too, so any way that you look at it, they migrated from one end to the other. I can prove that they are from Arabia by the simple fact that this is what they have said about their origin over the years. Westerners found them and asked them where they are from and they said Arabia. That's good enough proof for me. Why should they have to prove to me or anyone else that they are from Arabia? Have they committed a crime? Have they stolen someone's land and heritage? Are other people asked to prove that they are from where their forefathers have always said that they are from? Is there anything strange about their being from Arabia? Don't be confused by the later generations of Fulani abandoning what their forefathers said about their Arab origin. This doesn't and can't erase what the Fulani have said about their origin from their beginning until the arrival of the European colonizers and missionaries.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

---

The man is not a convert to Islam. What makes you say that??? And you mean migrant Arab men marrying women in the area - not Fulani women per se because the Fulani as a tribe were formed after the union. Concerning your question how can I prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia, I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove - that they migrated there or that they are from Arabia. I can prove that they migrated by the fact that they are there now while their original homeland is Arabia. And there are also some Fulani in the east too, so any way that you look at it, they migrated from one end to the other. I can prove that they are from Arabia by the simple fact that this is what they have said about their origin over the years. Westerners found them and asked them where they are from and they said Arabia. That's good enough proof for me. Why should they have to prove to me or anyone else that they are from Arabia? Have they committed a crime? Have they stolen someone's land and heritage? Are other people asked to prove that they are from where their forefathers have always said that they are from? Is there anything strange about their being from Arabia? Don't be confused by the later generations of Fulani abandoning what their forefathers said about their Arab origin. This doesn't and can't erase what the Fulani have said about their origin from their beginning until the arrival of the European colonizers and missionaries.

---

The Man looks like a typical African American not an Arab, that is why. He could have Arab blood so I wont go into it, but in America that man would not be called or seen as an Arab.

Also the British at one time claimed to come from Trojan warriors, the Germans from Aryans, and many people CLAIM many things.

I am simply asking you to show something literature, archological anything that shows Migrations from Arabia to W. Africa, I am serously interested.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

---

The man is not a convert to Islam. What makes you say that??? And you mean migrant Arab men marrying women in the area - not Fulani women per se because the Fulani as a tribe were formed after the union. Concerning your question how can I prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia, I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove - that they migrated there or that they are from Arabia. I can prove that they migrated by the fact that they are there now while their original homeland is Arabia. And there are also some Fulani in the east too, so any way that you look at it, they migrated from one end to the other. I can prove that they are from Arabia by the simple fact that this is what they have said about their origin over the years. Westerners found them and asked them where they are from and they said Arabia. That's good enough proof for me. Why should they have to prove to me or anyone else that they are from Arabia? Have they committed a crime? Have they stolen someone's land and heritage? Are other people asked to prove that they are from where their forefathers have always said that they are from? Is there anything strange about their being from Arabia? Don't be confused by the later generations of Fulani abandoning what their forefathers said about their Arab origin. This doesn't and can't erase what the Fulani have said about their origin from their beginning until the arrival of the European colonizers and missionaries.

---

The Man looks like a typical African American not an Arab, that is why. He could have Arab blood so I wont go into it, but in America that man would not be called or seen as an Arab.

Also the British at one time claimed to come from Trojan warriors, the Germans from Aryans, and many people CLAIM many things.

I am simply asking you to show something literature, archological anything that shows Migrations from Arabia to W. Africa, I am serously interested.

---

Yes, he looks like a typical "African American" and "African Americans" look like the original Arabs looked.

Concerning something that shows migrations from Arabia to West Africa, here's something that mentions 'Uqba - the ancestor of the Fulani - being in the area:

The Cambridge History of Africa says, "…there is no reason to doubt that 'Uqba did penetrate deep into the Libyan desert. Ibn 'Abd al-Halim recorded another southward raid, which was led by 'Uqba's grandson, Habib ibn Abi 'Ubayda ibn Uqba. About 734 – that is, not long after the Arabs had established their rule over the Maghrib al-Aqsa – he raided the Sus and the land of the Sudan…'Uqba ibn Nafi, it is said, imposed a tribute of slaves upon the rulers of Wadan, Djerma and Kawar".

It's a known fact that 'Uqba was in the area called west Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

---

The man is not a convert to Islam. What makes you say that??? And you mean migrant Arab men marrying women in the area - not Fulani women per se because the Fulani as a tribe were formed after the union. Concerning your question how can I prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia, I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove - that they migrated there or that they are from Arabia. I can prove that they migrated by the fact that they are there now while their original homeland is Arabia. And there are also some Fulani in the east too, so any way that you look at it, they migrated from one end to the other. I can prove that they are from Arabia by the simple fact that this is what they have said about their origin over the years. Westerners found them and asked them where they are from and they said Arabia. That's good enough proof for me. Why should they have to prove to me or anyone else that they are from Arabia? Have they committed a crime? Have they stolen someone's land and heritage? Are other people asked to prove that they are from where their forefathers have always said that they are from? Is there anything strange about their being from Arabia? Don't be confused by the later generations of Fulani abandoning what their forefathers said about their Arab origin. This doesn't and can't erase what the Fulani have said about their origin from their beginning until the arrival of the European colonizers and missionaries.

---

The Man looks like a typical African American not an Arab, that is why. He could have Arab blood so I wont go into it, but in America that man would not be called or seen as an Arab.

Also the British at one time claimed to come from Trojan warriors, the Germans from Aryans, and many people CLAIM many things.

I am simply asking you to show something literature, archological anything that shows Migrations from Arabia to W. Africa, I am serously interested.

---

Yes, he looks like a typical "African American" and "African Americans" look like the original Arabs looked.

Concerning something that shows migrations from Arabia to West Africa, here's something that mentions 'Uqba - the ancestor of the Fulani - being in the area:

The Cambridge History of Africa says, "…there is no reason to doubt that 'Uqba did penetrate deep into the Libyan desert. Ibn 'Abd al-Halim recorded another southward raid, which was led by 'Uqba's grandson, Habib ibn Abi 'Ubayda ibn Uqba. About 734 – that is, not long after the Arabs had established their rule over the Maghrib al-Aqsa – he raided the Sus and the land of the Sudan…'Uqba ibn Nafi, it is said, imposed a tribute of slaves upon the rulers of Wadan, Djerma and Kawar".

It's a known fact that 'Uqba was in the area called west Africa.

---

Your contridicting yourself, if the original Arabians looked like todaies African-Americans, those Arabs would have been biologically African. Meaning the Arab identity would have had an African origin.

Like you said your "looks" depend on the overall ancestral input into your society. Meaning if the original Arabs looked like people noted as being African, they would ahve had origins in Africa, or at least partially.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Kalonji,


Why is the Land of Kush a feeble term? If we are talking about Kushites, isn't it better to say the Land of Kush than to say Africa? Isn't that being more precise and realistic? Because the Kushites might be on either side of the Red Sea.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
What do you mean by no other country available other than Mozambique?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say because it's attached to Eurasia. It's also attached to what you call Africa..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
The term Arab isn't man-made..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Why do you consider what I said about the Ashkenazi Zionists who have stolen the land of Palestine not being Children of Israel mendacious? What's mendacious is their ridiculous claim.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Kalonji,


Why is the Land of Kush a feeble term? If we are talking about Kushites, isn't it better to say the Land of Kush than to say Africa? Isn't that being more precise and realistic? Because the Kushites might be on either side of the Red Sea.

---

We have to stay clear on what it is we're discussing here so we don't loose focus.
One of the reasons why I said ''Kush'' is a feeble term, is because like I've said earlier, it means different things to different people.
When one thing means different thing to different people, that is when unnecessary conflicts, disagreements and misunderstandings happen.

Strabo
“I assert that the ancient Greeks, in the same way as they classed all the northern nations with which they were familiar as Scythians, etc., so, I affirm, they designated as Ethiopia the whole of the southern countries toward the ocean.”

“if the moderns have confined the appellation Ethiopians to those only who dwell near Egypt, this must not be allowed to interfere with the meaning of the ancients.”

^See..?
This indicates that there was already confusion in ancient times about who should be considered Ethiopian/Kushite. While it may be correct that some remnants of black people in Arabia are recent descendants of Africans, there are other black people in asia whose ancesters have been as long in asia as the ancestprs of their ''white'' counterparts. To call them Kushite, is a very limited, superficial classification. Since it is only based on skin color, not on genetic relationship that is recent enough to considered them closer to africans in general than to their ''white'' neighbours. That is another reason why the term is feeble, beside the fact that it is inferior to the more concrete geographical term ''Africa''. ''The land of Kush'' can move and/or dissapear, since Kushites can migrate and get absorbed by non-Kushites. The name ''Africa'' will never need a revising, since it is not tied to a (color of a) population, unless the inhabitants choose to revise it themselves. Just like you pose philosophical questions about why something should be considered belonging to Africa, so can I pose philosophical questions like: why is it called the land of Kush? Is a given strip of land ever really owned by a population? See what I mean with: no system is without flaws?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
What do you mean by no other country available other than Mozambique?

---

You asked why Madagscar should be considered as a part of Africa? That is the answer. No other candidates. Also, Madagascar is situated within the African tectonic plate.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say because it's attached to Eurasia. It's also attached to what you call Africa..

---

It is attached to the sinai peninsula. Big difference.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
The term Arab isn't man-made..

---

Lol, elaborate..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Why do you consider what I said about the Ashkenazi Zionists who have stolen the land of Palestine not being Children of Israel mendacious? What's mendacious is their ridiculous claim.

---

You said that Jewish people are descendants of ''Japhet'', implying that they're more related to Europeans than they are to their more immediate neighbors. That is what I called mendacious. I won't go into the stolen land part, that is beyond the scope of this discussion. What I will say, and stand by, is that Israeli and Palistinians are genetically closer related to eachother than either is to Arabians or Europeans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Kalonji,


Why is the Land of Kush a feeble term? If we are talking about Kushites, isn't it better to say the Land of Kush than to say Africa? Isn't that being more precise and realistic? Because the Kushites might be on either side of the Red Sea.

---

We have to stay clear on what it is we're discussing here so we don't loose focus.
One of the reasons why I said ''Kush'' is a feeble term, is because like I've said earlier, it means different things to different people.
When one thing means different thing to different people, that is when unnecessary conflicts, disagreements and misunderstandings happen.

Strabo
“I assert that the ancient Greeks, in the same way as they classed all the northern nations with which they were familiar as Scythians, etc., so, I affirm, they designated as Ethiopia the whole of the southern countries toward the ocean.”

“if the moderns have confined the appellation Ethiopians to those only who dwell near Egypt, this must not be allowed to interfere with the meaning of the ancients.”

^See..?
This indicates that there was already confusion in ancient times about who should be considered Ethiopian/Kushite. While it may be correct that some remnants of black people in Arabia are recent descendants of Africans, there are other black people in asia whose ancesters have been as long in asia as the ancestprs of their ''white'' counterparts. To call them Kushite, is a very limited, superficial classification. Since it is only based on skin color, not on genetic relationship that is recent enough to considered them closer to africans in general than to their ''white'' neighbours. That is another reason why the term is feeble, beside the fact that it is inferior to the more concrete geographical term ''Africa''. ''The land of Kush'' can move and/or dissapear, since Kushites can migrate and get absorbed by non-Kushites. The name ''Africa'' will never need a revising, since it is not tied to a (color of a) population, unless the inhabitants choose to revise it themselves. Just like you pose philosophical questions about why something should be considered belonging to Africa, so can I pose philosophical questions like: why is it called the land of Kush? Is a given strip of land ever really owned by a population? See what I mean with: no system is without flaws?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
What do you mean by no other country available other than Mozambique?

---

You asked why Madagscar should be considered as a part of Africa? That is the answer. No other candidates. Also, Madagascar is situated within the African tectonic plate.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
You say because it's attached to Eurasia. It's also attached to what you call Africa..

---

It is attached to the sinai peninsula. Big difference.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
The term Arab isn't man-made..

---

Lol, elaborate..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Why do you consider what I said about the Ashkenazi Zionists who have stolen the land of Palestine not being Children of Israel mendacious? What's mendacious is their ridiculous claim.

---

You said that Jewish people are descendants of ''Japhet'', implying that they're more related to Europeans than they are to their more immediate neighbors. That is what I called mendacious. I won't go into the stolen land part, that is beyond the scope of this discussion. What I will say, and stand by, is that Israeli and Palistinians are genetically closer related to eachother than either is to Arabians or Europeans.

---

The term Cushite is totally different from the Kingdom of Kush and the people that lived there the Kushities. Cush and Cushite were terms usually used to describe peoples of African origin, of any ethnilogical label. Kush was a term used to describe one region, people, and kingdom.

Also, the term Cush was never used to describe people of non-African origins. "African looking people" living in places far to the east were never described by people living in the Levant as Cushite, since they were never in contact with people in that area. Cushite was used to describe Africa and Africans or populations with genetic admixture with Africans in the Middle East, specifically the Arabian peninsula and the Levant.

Japheth for the most part is not associated with modern day Europeans, recent Europeans have historically injected themselves into the Bibical story in order to feel important. But Japheth was historically and bibically recognized as the direct ancestor of the ancestors of todaies Turks, Caucasians (people living along the Caucasus mts), Central Asians, and the only people who were in contact with the ancient Israeli people the Greeks and later on , the Romans.
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 
Doctoris Scientia you aren't making any sense at all and the real problem is that you don't realize that you aren't making any sense.
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 
"African looking people"??? I haven't heard that in a long time! )))
 

---

Posted by Doctoris Scientia (Member # 17454) on :
 

quote:

---

When I say Kushites, I mean descendants of Kush - not skin color. And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing. That's why calling those on one side African and those on the other side another thing is misleading. Do you understand what I am saying?

What about the people in Madagascar? Do you consider them the same as the people in the area you call Africa? If so, why can't the people in Arabia be the same - given the fact that Arabia is closer to "Africa" than Madagascar is? Look at the maps I posted again.

You say that Arabia isn't attached to "Africa". I ask you this: Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Sudan or to get to Sudan from Senegal? Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Ethiopia or to get to Ethiopia from Ivory Coast? When the Muslims were suffering persecution in the 7th century, the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) told his followers to go to Abyssinia. Was it easier/faster for them to go to Abyssinia or to Baghdad? If a person in Abyssinia was suffering persecution and was seeking a quick refuge, would it be easier/faster for him/her to go to Arabia or to Mali? Do you get my point?

I say that the term Arab isn't a man-made term because it was mentioned by God. I've never heard the term "African" mentioned in any of the Revealed Books. The term "African" was coined by European colonist with the intention of dividing and conquering. And that's what they did. Divided and conquered.

Yes, I said that most of the Jewish people now occupying Palestine are descendants of Japheth - UNRELATED to the Hebrews and the Children of Israel. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"African looking people"??? I haven't heard that in a long time! )))

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

Fulani are anything but "indigenous" West Africans
linguistically related to the Serere and Wolof -- who
likewise speak Atlantic languages of Niger-Congo --
but infused with a Zenaga substratum (Banu Warith).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
When I say Kushites, I mean descendants of Kush - not skin color.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing. That's why calling those on one side African and those on the other side another thing is misleading. Do you understand what I am saying?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
What about the people in Madagascar? Do you consider them the same as the people in the area you call Africa? If so, why can't the people in Arabia be the same - given the fact that Arabia is closer to "Africa" than Madagascar is? Look at the maps I posted again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
You say that Arabia isn't attached to "Africa". I ask you this: Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Sudan or to get to Sudan from Senegal? Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Ethiopia or to get to Ethiopia from Ivory Coast? When the Muslims were suffering persecution in the 7th century, the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) told his followers to go to Abyssinia. Was it easier/faster for them to go to Abyssinia or to Baghdad? If a person in Abyssinia was suffering persecution and was seeking a quick refuge, would it be easier/faster for him/her to go to Arabia or to Mali? Do you get my point?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
I say that the term Arab isn't a man-made term because it was mentioned by God. I've never heard the term "African" mentioned in any of the Revealed Books. The term "African" was coined by European colonist with the intention of dividing and conquering. And that's what they did. Divided and conquered.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes, I said that most of the Jewish people now occupying Palestine are descendants of Japheth - UNRELATED to the Hebrews and the Children of Israel.

---

Then I will categorise that assertion as hot air and not supported by facts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/


 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
When I say Kushites, I mean descendants of Kush - not skin color.

---

See, but that is the problem
1.As Brada already pointed out, by simply looking at an individual, you can't distinguish between a person with recent African ancestry and a black person whose ancesters have been in Arabia since the out of Africa migration, unless you look at their dna. Sometimes you can, in the case with some Indians, and some aboriginals, but not always
2.If you don't include Asiatic blacks in your Kushite category, and are going to keep reasoning from outdated viewpoints, I'm going to ask you the same questions I ask all Noah centric advocates who try to make sense of their factual ancestry using religious dogma, instead of trying to understand their history as it is, without trying (read forcing) to make the evidence fit a pre conceived dogma.

Let me ask you this, what biblical characters are the ancestors of present day black asiatics like indians and aboriginals? What biblical character is the ancestor of present day east Asians like Chinese? And support it with sources, instead of giving your own opinion.
If you say that the person who was named Cush should be included with Shem solely because of the language of his descendants, how does your theory take the Chinese and australian aboriginals into account, who speak a language that doesn't correspond with no language found among the proposed descendants of Cham, Shem or Japhet. Those are the problems you will have to answer if you keep reasoning from the Noah centric perspective, in favor of what science has made available.
I expect you to respond to all the questions I posed, if you decline to do this, I will assume you're incapable of doing so.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing. That's why calling those on one side African and those on the other side another thing is misleading. Do you understand what I am saying?

---

Yes, and still it is correct. That some black Arabians have relationships with some Africans takes nothing away from the fact that they live in the Arabian peninsula.

As I've said earlier, ''Africa'' denotes a continent, nothing more, nothing less. Living in Arabia, the Caribbean, Europe etc. does not exclude relationship with Africans per se, if that relationship can be proven that is, it just means you're living somewhere else.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
What about the people in Madagascar? Do you consider them the same as the people in the area you call Africa? If so, why can't the people in Arabia be the same - given the fact that Arabia is closer to "Africa" than Madagascar is? Look at the maps I posted again.

---

They are not the same as the people in Africa. They have experienced substantial admixure that makes their genetic composition unique and rare compared to other African populations. As for the closeness of Arabia, you can keep repeating the same arguments awlaad, but I have already answered them. Arabia is NOT attached to Africa, and it is not on the African tectonic plate. Geographically, there is nothing that ties Arabia to Africa enough to make it a part of Africa. Genetically there are some ties between several populations of Arabia, but you have to understand this distinction.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
You say that Arabia isn't attached to "Africa". I ask you this: Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Sudan or to get to Sudan from Senegal? Is it easier/faster to get to Arabia from Ethiopia or to get to Ethiopia from Ivory Coast? When the Muslims were suffering persecution in the 7th century, the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) told his followers to go to Abyssinia. Was it easier/faster for them to go to Abyssinia or to Baghdad? If a person in Abyssinia was suffering persecution and was seeking a quick refuge, would it be easier/faster for him/her to go to Arabia or to Mali? Do you get my point?

---

Yes I do, and I don't agree with it. Your point is that east Africa is somehow the center of Africa and that to be African, is to be connected to East Africa. You're in fact practicing ''True Negro'', you're just shifting it from west Africa to east Africa. No part of Africa is more African, all black Africans are equally African, despite admixture.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
I say that the term Arab isn't a man-made term because it was mentioned by God. I've never heard the term "African" mentioned in any of the Revealed Books. The term "African" was coined by European colonist with the intention of dividing and conquering. And that's what they did. Divided and conquered.

---

The term ''Arab'' predates the Koran. I'm really starting to seriously doubt your ability to facilitate logic. Or perhaps you utilise it selectively, only when it doesn't comprimise your assertions. If would seriously ponder using the edit button if I were you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes, I said that most of the Jewish people now occupying Palestine are descendants of Japheth - UNRELATED to the Hebrews and the Children of Israel.

---

Then I will categorise that assertion as hot air and not supported by facts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
See, but that is the problem
1.As Brada already pointed out, by simply looking at an individual, you can't distinguish between a person with recent African ancestry and a black person whose ancesters have been in Arabia since the out of Africa migration, unless you look at their dna. Sometimes you can, in the case with some Indians, and some aboriginals, but not always
2.If you don't include Asiatic blacks in your Kushite category, and are going to keep reasoning from outdated viewpoints

---

I don't understand the relation between this and what I said. I simply said that Kushite means descendant of Kush. I never said that dark-skinned Asiatic descendants of Kush are not included in my Kushite category. I said that the people are the same people on both sides of the sea.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
I don't have much information about the origin of the Chinese and Indians, but I believe that the original Indians were descendants of Ham and the Chinese from Ham or Japheth. Of course the Elamites are from Sam.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
"As I've said earlier, ''Africa'' denotes a continent, nothing more, nothing less. Living in Arabia, the Caribbean, Europe etc. does not exclude relationship with Africans per se, if that relationship can be proven that is, it just means you're living somewhere else."

---

Right (if I understand you correctly). And that person in "Africa" who is related to an Arab living in Arabia is an Arab not an "African".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Kalonji, not physically touching doesn't mean anything.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Arabia is NOT attached to Africa, and it is not on the African tectonic plate. Geographically, there is nothing that ties Arabia to Africa enough to make it a part of Africa.

---

Kalonji, not physically touching doesn't mean anything. Do you think that there is some kind of magic-in-the-touch and that this magic is running across one end of what you call Africa to the other end, connecting the DNA of the people, but not stepping across the Bab Al-Mandab because there isn't that magic touch???!!! You can't possibly believe what you are saying!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
"No part of Africa is more African, all black Africans are equally African, despite admixture"

---

So now it's "black Africans"! See?! That's why I keep asking you all what you mean by "African"! It's not clear to me AT ALL! Is it a continent? Is it a color? Is it an "African look"? You need to decide.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
The term ''Arab'' predates the Koran.

---

What does that have to do with what I said??? I said: The term Arab isn't a man-made term because it was mentioned by God. I've never heard the term "African" mentioned in any of the Revealed Books.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Then I will categorise that assertion as hot air and not supported by facts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/

---

What facts do you have to support your claim that Ashkenazis are descendants of Sam? The last time I checked Ashkenaz was a descendant of Japheth.
Are you saying that those Ashkenazis are comparing their DNA to the DNA of the Hebrews who lived more than 2000 years ago? Are they? How??? And is it conveniently matching? Yeah, right!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Anyway, since you don't believe that we are from Noah through his three sons - Sam, Ham, and Japheth, there is no need discussing this further because - as we say in Arabic - I am in a valley and you are in a completely different valley.

---

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

---

quote:

---

As for Cameroonian Arabs, Are these "Real" arabs, or Africans that think they Are Arabs because of their beliefs?

---

quote:

---

Is it a coincidence that AbdelKarem, AwlaadBerry and Muhammed Abed all have Arab sounding names and all think its acceptable to claim Fulani/timbuctu as Arab..?
Is it a coincience that Mazigh is a north African and tries to ''berberize'' ancient Egypt?
Is it a coincience that some west African (descendants) claim an exclusively west/central African origin of the ancient Egyptians?
It's clear that there are self esteem issues involved in at least some of the claiming that is going on. ''My ancestors were involved, so their achievements translate to me''.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

---

Boy,
You are out there
Seriously,
Is this paranoia about African Europeans supposed to refer to me?
LOL
Is it a coincidence that AbdelKarem, AwlaadBerry and Muhammed Abed all have Arab sounding names and all think its acceptable to claim Fulani/timbuctu as Arab..?
Is it a coincience that Mazigh is a north African and tries to ''berberize'' ancient Egypt?
Is it a coincience that some west African (descendants) claim an exclusively west/central African origin of the ancient Egyptians?
It's clear that there are self esteem issues involved in at least some of the claiming that is going on. ''My ancestors were involved, so their achievements translate to me''.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

---

Yes AbdelKarem. It's clear that what I am seeing here is the product of European/Zionist/Missionary/Colonist deeducation/brainwashing. It's sad. They did a VERY good job.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Don't pay that Arab Apologist yes man any mind. The funny part is this Arab Apologist Yes man, Abdul Kareem FORGETS that HIS KIND enslaved Africans BEFORE the European...So who is the Slave master?? Keep up the good work Kolonji don't let this Arabized internet thug get to you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
is it a coincidence that a person with a rasta name...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
with a home base in amsterdam criticizing and entering affairs that dont concern them just like a missionary euro.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
it is a problem to quote weat the peoples's own ethno-scholars themselves but take from some outsider to decide if it is true because he says this is the real science.

---

Quoting peoples folklore is not a problem at all. The problem is that when objective facts point in the opposite direction, certain people are so rigid that they can't, or refuse to adapt. Conveniently using folklore is what allows scholars like Awlaadberry to avoid doing the hard thing, which is having a reasonable amount of detachement from whatever they prefer/believe themselves, and testing it against objective lines of evidence, and discarting it when it doesn't agree with them.

The fact of the matter is that truth is not up for debate, not when it is proveable. If Awlaad was right, he would be able to silence me with scientific evidence. As a matter of fact, he wouldn't even have to, because I would be arguing right next to him.

BTW
Awlaadberry,
I'm still waiting for you to respond to my post, you're not mad at me, are you?

 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

quote:

---

I have genetic, cultural, and basic scientific evidence to back up what I'm saying, you have myths and sociological claims of ancestry

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

---

Yes AbdelKarem. It's clear that what I am seeing here is the product of European/Zionist/Missionary/Colonist deeducation/brainwashing. It's sad. They did a VERY good job.

---

Hey Awaald mind telling me when the Arabs abolished slavery?? I forget the date, Im sure you know this...can you help me out, seeing how we are working for the Zionists..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Don't pay that Arab Apologist yes man any mind. The funny part is this Arab Apologist Yes man, Abdul Kareem FORGETS that HIS KIND enslaved Africans BEFORE the European...So who is the Slave master?? Keep up the good work Kolonji don't let this Arabized internet thug get to you.

---

Exactly, the most funny part is that he is part of a movement that were/are missionarists themselves.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
is it a coincidence that a person with a rasta name...

---

First of all, ''Kalonji'' is not a rasta name, again, showing your ignorance.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
with a home base in amsterdam criticizing and entering affairs that dont concern them just like a missionary euro.

---

Just as I expected, no reaction to what I posted in response to Awlaad, just irrelevant gibberish. Nowhere have I imposed my view of the world on others. Quite to the contrary, I told Awlaadberry he can believe in whatever he chooses to. Do you even know what a missionary is?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abdulkarem:
it is a problem to quote weat the peoples's own ethno-scholars themselves but take from some outsider to decide if it is true because he says this is the real science.

---

Quoting peoples folklore is not a problem at all. The problem is that when objective facts point in the opposite direction, certain people are so rigid that they can't, or refuse to adapt. Conveniently using folklore is what allows scholars like Awlaadberry to avoid doing the hard thing, which is having a reasonable amount of detachement from whatever they prefer/believe themselves, and testing it against objective lines of evidence, and discarting it when it doesn't agree with them.

The fact of the matter is that truth is not up for debate, not when it is proveable. If Awlaad was right, he would be able to silence me with scientific evidence. As a matter of fact, he wouldn't even have to, because I would be arguing right next to him.

BTW
Awlaadberry,
I'm still waiting for you to respond to my post, you're not mad at me, are you?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

Yes AbdelKarem. It's clear that what I am seeing here is the product of European/Zionist/Missionary/Colonist deeducation/brainwashing. It's sad. They did a VERY good job.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
^Boy,
Am I glad I didn't buy your book

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

Yes AbdelKarem. It's clear that what I am seeing here is the product of European/Zionist/Missionary/Colonist deeducation/brainwashing. It's sad. They did a VERY good job.

---

So, anyone who doesn't buy into your terrorist/sharia/fundamentalist/enslaved cult learning must be the ones who are brainwashed. Classic.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Gaul:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
^Boy,
Am I glad I didn't buy your book

---

Actually, you'd be surprised at the information you will learn if you are capable of discerning core info from opinion in said information even if you disagree with the overall message. Not saying you should pay for said mediums, but shouldn't completely avoid them either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

It seems the Fulani are everything and every people.

The only thing Fulani are not is
the descendants of Green Sahara SE Algerian pastoralists
(displaying cultural traits nearly identical to later Cattle
Fulani) who over the centuries after the drying of the
Sahara drifted southwest toward the Senegal.

That's too easy direct and sensible.

No.

Fulani are Tjehenu.
Fulani are Egyptians.
Fulani are Pelestim.
Fulani are Ethiopians.
Fulani are Somalis.
Fulani are Tutsi.
Fulani are Arabs.

Fulani are anything but "indigenous" West Africans
linguistically related to the Serere and Wolof -- who
likewise speak Atlantic languages of Niger-Congo --
but infused with a Zenaga substratum (Banu Warith).

If a people do not call themselves Fulbe
and a people do not speak Fulfulde/Pulaar
then that people are not Fulani, period.

---

quote:

---

The debate as to whether the Abore (the nomadic Fulani) are Sudanic natives or "Hamitic" immigranst into the Sudan (the "Hamitic hypothesis" in African history) or whether Fulfulde is a Hamitic or a West Atlantic (Sudanic) language can be illuminated by remembering what Isaiah the Israelite prophet called the Hebrew language. He refers to Hebrew as shefat k'na'an "the speech of Canaan" (Isa. 19:18), because the 'iber-iym adopted shefat k'na'an when they invaded Canaan.

Is it not possible that the Abore adopted the language of West Sudan when their wanderings took them to those parts? Did the adoption of the language of Canaan make the Hebrews Canaanites culturally? (To some extent it did - with prophets and Rechabites as voices in the wilderness). Does the adoption of a West Atlantic form of speech make the Abore/Bororo Sudanic blacks culturally? For the Ful-be sire, the Pula/Pulo/Fulani who settled down, the answer is Yes. (Fulfulde siire is cognate with Yoruba sile, Hebrew shaluy "settled," like wine on the lees). However, the Abore/Bororo who did not settle down but continued as 'oBr-iym can be regarded as culturally Sudanic blacks to only a slight degree.

The distinctiveness of the Bororo way of life in spite of millenia of contact with farming communities of West Africa must be remarked upon. They are milk-drinking West Africans. They are seldom cited in books on African traditional religion. THe classification of Fulfulde as a Niger-Congo rather than "Hamitic" language does not nullify the significance of the distinctiveness, for, in the words of W.F. Albright, "Race, culture and language are heterogeneous entities."

The southern limit of the Hamito-Semitic languages is not the Niger-Benue confluence but the Atlantic Guinea Coast. The Abore/Bororo are successors (descendants) of the ben-ey 'Ber: the Pula are the relics of the Apiru. The have been traversing Hamito-Semitic terrain since Abrahamic times. "Language may be used with caution to prove an original physical association between different groups of men," Albright says. "Of course, it is no longer necessary to emphasize the fact that a common linguistic inheritance does not necessarily carry with it a common racial origin, since language may be borrowed whereas physical inheritance cannot." The physical features o the Fulani are atypical in West Africa.

The Apiru (Habiru, Hapiru) were found everywhere in the Ancient Near East: in upper and lower Mesopotamia, in Syria, in Palestine, in Egypt. The word 'Apiru is to Pulo (singular) phonologically as Hebrew 'apar (Akkadian eperu) "dust" is to Acholi apulu "dust" (Yoruba erukpe "dust"). For the plural Ful-be, compare the plural of 'Apiru in Gugaritic: 'prm. The pluralizing suffix -be in the Fulfulde language is equivalent to the -m in 'prm.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AswaniAswad:
Awlaad i understand your points in the Fulani being Arabs that quote i gave u earlier that u said was a song u are right there is a song in arabic about the Arab lineage of the Fulani the song is old.

Awlaad about the Sabeans i think that the old saying use to go in Yemen as divided as the Sabeans what they meant by that i have no idea but it can explain why modern day eritrea still uses sabean alphabets and modern day yemen doesnt.

Awlaad 7th century Arab DNA from what part of arabia.

---

7th century Arab DNA from any part of Arabia because the 7th century Arab was completely different from most Arabs that YOU SEE today. This is a fact that people doing these DNA comparisons don't realize.
 

---

Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 

i was thinking tuhe same thing ya ibn berry concerning the dna issue. i was wondering if you have seen the quote from other leading nations from the modern continent.
Im the kebra negast the AKSUMITES write

quote:

---

and therefore the children of ishmael became kings over tereb and over kebet, and over NOBA(northern sudan)and overSOBA(southern sudan)kuergue,and kifi, and maka(mecca), and morna, and finkana, and arsibana,and liba(lybia), and mase'a and they were the seed of shem.

---

quote:

---

According to the colophon attached to most of the existing copies, the Kebra Nagast originally was written in Coptic, then translated into Arabic in the Year of Mercy 409 (dated to AD 1225)[8] by a team of Ethiopian clerics during the office of Abuna Abba Giyorgis, and finally into Ge'ez at the command of the governor of Enderta province Ya'ibika Igzi'. Based on the testimony of this colophon, "Conti Rossini, Littmann, and Cerulli, inter alios, have marked off the period 1314 to 1321-1322 for the composition of the book."[9]. Marcus, (1994), indicated that the religious epic story was conflated in the fourteenth century by six Tigrayan scribes. Other sources put it as a work of the fourteenth century Nebura’ed Yeshaq of Aksum.

Careful study of the text has revealed traces of Arabic, possibly pointing to an Arabic vorlage, but no clear evidence of a previous Coptic version. Many scholars doubt that a Coptic version ever existed, and that the history of the text goes back no further than the Arabic vorlage.[10] On the other hand, the numerous quotations in the text from the Bible were not translated from this hypothetical Arabic vorlage, but were copied from the Ethiopian translation of the Bible, either directly or from memory, and in their use and interpretation shows the influence of patristic sources such as Gregory of Nyssa.

---

the ethiopians claim that there are arabs in the north and south of sudan in the kebra but the kebra is recorded in 1225 but the closest thing to anything arabic is the funj empire which is from 1504-onward. now looking at the following map i can easily see how the nigerian complex recieved alot of arab migrations.


then u have the baqaara from the central chadian area also. this map corresponds also alot with what uthamn bin-dan fodio statement in "Infaq al- maysurfi ta 'rikh bilad al-Takrur"

great work in your book by the way the arab migrations and comtributions to the "modern african complex" is definitely politically dismissed. keep up the good work. salam
 

---

Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

i was thinking tuhe same thing ya ibn berry concerning the dna issue. i was wondering if you have seen the quote from other leading nations from the modern continent.
Im the kebra negast the AKSUMITES write

quote:

---

and therefore the children of ishmael became kings over tereb and over kebet, and over NOBA(northern sudan)and overSOBA(southern sudan)kuergue,and kifi, and maka(mecca), and morna, and finkana, and arsibana,and liba(lybia), and mase'a and they were the seed of shem.

---

kebra the glory of the kings is an account written in Ge'ez of the origins of the Solomonic line of the Emperors of Ethiopia. The text, in its existing form, is at least seven hundred years old, and is considered by many Ethiopian Christians and Rastafarians to be an inspired and a reliable account. Not only does it contain an account of how the Queen of Sheba met Solomon, and about how the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia with Menelik I, but contains an account of the conversion of the Ethiopians from the worship of the sun, moon, and stars to that of the "Lord God of Israel". As Edward Ullendorff explained in the 1967 Schweich Lectures, "The Kebra Nagast is not merely a literary work, but -- as the Old Testament to the Hebrews or the Qur'an to the Arabs -- it is the repository of Ethiopian national and religious feelings."[1]
european scholarship say that it is mere folklore and legends and the earliest version of the book was written in arabic?

quote:

---

According to the colophon attached to most of the existing copies, the Kebra Nagast originally was written in Coptic, then translated into Arabic in the Year of Mercy 409 (dated to AD 1225)[8] by a team of Ethiopian clerics during the office of Abuna Abba Giyorgis, and finally into Ge'ez at the command of the governor of Enderta province Ya'ibika Igzi'. Based on the testimony of this colophon, "Conti Rossini, Littmann, and Cerulli, inter alios, have marked off the period 1314 to 1321-1322 for the composition of the book."[9]. Marcus, (1994), indicated that the religious epic story was conflated in the fourteenth century by six Tigrayan scribes. Other sources put it as a work of the fourteenth century Nebura’ed Yeshaq of Aksum.

Careful study of the text has revealed traces of Arabic, possibly pointing to an Arabic vorlage, but no clear evidence of a previous Coptic version. Many scholars doubt that a Coptic version ever existed, and that the history of the text goes back no further than the Arabic vorlage.[10] On the other hand, the numerous quotations in the text from the Bible were not translated from this hypothetical Arabic vorlage, but were copied from the Ethiopian translation of the Bible, either directly or from memory, and in their use and interpretation shows the influence of patristic sources such as Gregory of Nyssa.

---

the ethiopians claim that there are arabs in the north and south of sudan in the kebra but the kebra is recorded in 1225 but the closest thing to anything arabic is the funj empire which is from 1504-onward. now looking at the following map i can easily see how the nigerian complex recieved alot of arab migrations.


then u have the baqaara from the central chadian area also. this map corresponds also alot with what uthamn bin-dan fodio statement in "Infaq al- maysurfi ta 'rikh bilad al-Takrur"

great work in your book by the way the arab migrations and comtributions to the "modern african complex" is definitely politically dismissed. keep up the good work. salam

---

Thanks for the information brother Abdul Kareem. You too keep up the good work. Salaam.
 

---

Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^^
LOL...NOW Pat the little Arab Apologist on his head...LOL...GOOD BOY ABDUL KAREEM...GOOD WORK MUHAMMED ABED...LOL...


Good Work Abul Kareem..As Sallam Malakka..Peace Be Upon you my Brother...
 

---

Posted by StormFrontRecruiter (Member # 17579) on :
 
You Out Of Con-TROLL.

1.I am mad that my Caucasian skin is inferior
2.I am mad because i have little dick syndrome
3.I am mad because my daddy ran off
4.I am nad because my homosexual life is trash
5.I am mad because both of my Parents are both a piece of EuroTurds
6.I am mad because I have no job.
7.I am mad because my wife like black cock porn
8.I am mad because that dead dog i love to show was my first sexual partner.
9.I am mad because alot of black people make more money than my whole family
10.I am man because I found out my whole race come from the black African ballsack.

My Love For Recovering-Afroholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holIc
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So its true Dirk8 you really do love me.
How about a little bootylove about 8:oo?

Let me know now my booty is wet!

Love Recovering-Afroholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 139 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what is up with the Egyptian gay love confession?

Dirk8 you are a pure fag, and the same to you Recovering-Afroholic you faggot.

Why not take you gay love confessions elsewhere.

Phuckin Fagsssssss.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 11 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I am a gay idiot what is your excuse?

You can say what you want about me and Dirk8.
We are two gay guys just here to keep some drama going. We are lovers true enough, but i am Black and he is white.

We have that jungle fever going on dont we Dirk8?

Any one who dont like it take a lefty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thaks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?

Why come out on trying to cause mischeif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 111 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well, we first met on stormfront. We were doing our usual "he plays the white racist guy" that hates blacks, and I'd play "the racist black guy that hates blacks' game.
Well, when i first seen how phuckin fat he was on his profile (about 600lbs) i was kinda skeptical on how we could be together with me being a solid(790lbs). we found it difficult to hug or to make love at first without our fat bellies rubbing together. we develope a side movement that we use that i wont go into here.
Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

But we love each other, just see how i praise him on his posts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lmao,Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

Recovering baby, you really know how to rile me up. But I feel the same about you as you feel about me.


The Egyptians were black we all know tha. Me and Recovering come here just to wire up the people here.
They argue when they know they are right, what morons?

Just keep being a troll, and maybe well get some fame!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 147 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk8 Im so tender can you hit me now?

I love how we just be trollin all damn day long.
They about to turn off my lights, and my water, and i have no job. My whole life is to spread mischeif and i do it so well.

I will alway and forever be a troll.

Call me out of con-troll
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 09:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL................................................................................................................................................................................. ..............................................................................................
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 11 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8

Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 11:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1202 | From: Mission Diego | Registered: Apr 2009 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I m coming for you wetness right now Recovering!

Please be patient, I get my welfare on the first of the month.- Plus my moms gave me the O.K
Ill ride my bike over Friday @ 9
See ya soon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 58 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk8 will you be her early for this wetness?
I know you gotta turn a few tricks for u get here, but please dont bring that picture of that bloated dead dog again, i hate looking at him while you give me head and eat my azz out.

Bring that one of your mother. Yoy know the one where she has no eyebrows and no teeth I love that one.

See ya soon!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 154 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 70 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holjc
Member
Member # 17517

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk8 please dont put our personal conversation up as ammunition for the AfroKings to shoot us with.

1.I am mad that my Caucasian skin is inferior
2.I am mad because i have little dick syndrome
3.I am mad because my daddy ran off
4.I am nad because my homosexual life is trash
5.I am mad because both of my Parents are both a piece of EuroTurds
6.I am mad because I have no job.
7.I am mad because my wife like black cock porn
8.I am mad because that dead dog i love to show was my first sexual partner.
9.I am mad because alot of black people make more money than my whole family
10.I am man because I found out my whole race come from the black African ballsack.

My Love For Recovering-Afroholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holIc
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So its true Dirk8 you really do love me.
How about a little bootylove about 8:oo?

Let me know now my booty is wet!

Love Recovering-Afroholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 139 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what is up with the Egyptian gay love confession?

Dirk8 you are a pure fag, and the same to you Recovering-Afroholic you faggot.

Why not take you gay love confessions elsewhere.

Phuckin Fagsssssss.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 11 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know I am a gay idiot what is your excuse?

You can say what you want about me and Dirk8.
We are two gay guys just here to keep some drama going. We are lovers true enough, but i am Black and he is white.

We have that jungle fever going on dont we Dirk8?

Any one who dont like it take a lefty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thaks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?

Why come out on trying to cause mischeif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 111 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well, we first met on stormfront. We were doing our usual "he plays the white racist guy" that hates blacks, and I'd play "the racist black guy that hates blacks' game.
Well, when i first seen how phuckin fat he was on his profile (about 600lbs) i was kinda skeptical on how we could be together with me being a solid(790lbs). we found it difficult to hug or to make love at first without our fat bellies rubbing together. we develope a side movement that we use that i wont go into here.
Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

But we love each other, just see how i praise him on his posts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lmao,Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

Recovering baby, you really know how to rile me up. But I feel the same about you as you feel about me.


The Egyptians were black we all know tha. Me and Recovering come here just to wire up the people here.
They argue when they know they are right, what morons?

Just keep being a troll, and maybe well get some fame!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 147 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:54 PM
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Dirk8 Im so tender can you hit me now?

I love how we just be trollin all damn day long.
They about to turn off my lights, and my water, and i have no job. My whole life is to spread mischeif and i do it so well.

I will alway and forever be a troll.

Call me out of con-troll
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Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 09:10 PM
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LOL................................................................................................................................................................................. ..............................................................................................
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Dirk8

Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 11:38 PM
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Posts: 1202 | From: Mission Diego | Registered: Apr 2009 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:10 PM
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I m coming for you wetness right now Recovering!

Please be patient, I get my welfare on the first of the month.- Plus my moms gave me the O.K
Ill ride my bike over Friday @ 9
See ya soon.
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Posts: 58 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:05 PM
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Dirk8 will you be her early for this wetness?
I know you gotta turn a few tricks for u get here, but please dont bring that picture of that bloated dead dog again, i hate looking at him while you give me head and eat my azz out.

Bring that one of your mother. Yoy know the one where she has no eyebrows and no teeth I love that one.

See ya soon!
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Posts: 159 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Djrk8
Member
Member # 17548

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:24 PM
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I love Me some Homo booty.
Call me the homo rapper

I got an album coming out next month!

Excusive tracks like "Ill Take Yo booty" Hit single debut.

Vote Gay 3008
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Djrk8
Member
Member # 17548

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:35 PM
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Recovering-Afroholic please dont put our personal conversation up as ammunition for the AfroKings to shoot us with.

1.I am mad that my Caucasian skin is inferior
2.I am mad because i have little dick syndrome
3.I am mad because my daddy ran off
4.I am nad because my homosexual life is trash
5.I am mad because both of my Parents are both a piece of EuroTurds
6.I am mad because I have no job.
7.I am mad because my wife like black cock porn
8.I am mad because that dead dog i love to show was my first sexual partner.
9.I am mad because alot of black people make more money than my whole family
10.I am man because I found out my whole race come from the black African ballsack.

My Love For Recovering-Afroholic
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Recovering-Afro-holIc
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:10 PM
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So its true Dirk8 you really do love me.
How about a little bootylove about 8:oo?

Let me know now my booty is wet!

Love Recovering-Afroholic
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Mazigh
Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:21 PM
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So what is up with the Egyptian gay love confession?

Dirk8 you are a pure fag, and the same to you Recovering-Afroholic you faggot.

Why not take you gay love confessions elsewhere.

Phuckin Fagsssssss.
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Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:25 PM
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I know I am a gay idiot what is your excuse?

You can say what you want about me and Dirk8.
We are two gay guys just here to keep some drama going. We are lovers true enough, but i am Black and he is white.

We have that jungle fever going on dont we Dirk8?

Any one who dont like it take a lefty.
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Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:28 PM
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Thanks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
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Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:32 PM
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Thaks Recovering, I couldnt have said it better myself.LMAO

Who cares what these loons think of our jungle love. I myself have been posting all these pic of my relatives all over Ae and these loons dont recognize it.

The dead dog pic is the pic of the dog i lost my virginity to. hes dead now as you can see, but he was really good as supper.

The pic was after we roasted him and got ready to eat him.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?

Why come out on trying to cause mischeif
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Posts: 111 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:40 PM
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So where did you to "guys" meet?
And was it love at first sight?
How do you guys handle being two gay males of different racial backgrounds and deeply in love?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well, we first met on stormfront. We were doing our usual "he plays the white racist guy" that hates blacks, and I'd play "the racist black guy that hates blacks' game.
Well, when i first seen how phuckin fat he was on his profile (about 600lbs) i was kinda skeptical on how we could be together with me being a solid(790lbs). we found it difficult to hug or to make love at first without our fat bellies rubbing together. we develope a side movement that we use that i wont go into here.
Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

But we love each other, just see how i praise him on his posts.
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Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:46 PM
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Lmao,Well, about the racial tension that we get. It doesnt bother me that I am a white bootyhole chaser. No one bit. But I can see who Dirk8 does being that i dont have that African dick that he though i had.

Recovering baby, you really know how to rile me up. But I feel the same about you as you feel about me.


The Egyptians were black we all know tha. Me and Recovering come here just to wire up the people here.
They argue when they know they are right, what morons?

Just keep being a troll, and maybe well get some fame!
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Posts: 147 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 08:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk8 Im so tender can you hit me now?

I love how we just be trollin all damn day long.
They about to turn off my lights, and my water, and i have no job. My whole life is to spread mischeif and i do it so well.

I will alway and forever be a troll.

Call me out of con-troll
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Mazigh
Junior Member
Member # 8621

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 09:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL................................................................................................................................................................................. ..............................................................................................
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Posts: 11 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8

Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 23 March, 2010 11:38 PM
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Posts: 1202 | From: Mission Diego | Registered: Apr 2009 | IP: Logged |

Dirk8
Member
Member # 16568

Rate Member posted 24 March, 2010 02:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I m coming for you wetness right now Recovering!

Please be patient, I get my welfare on the first of the month.- Plus my moms gave me the O.K
Ill ride my bike over Friday @ 9
See ya soon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 58 | Registered: Mar 2010 | IP: Logged |

Recovering-Afro-holic
Member
Member # 17311

Rate Member posted 25 March, 2010 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk8 will you be her early for this wetness?
I know you gotta turn a few tricks for u get here, but please dont bring that picture of that bloated dead dog again, i hate looking at him while you give me head and eat my azz out.

Bring that one of your mother. Yoy know the one where she has no eyebrows and no teeth I love that one.

See ya soon!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

---

Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

quote:

---

wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Before this topic turns into a mudslinging.

Lets keep on track.

Fulani are Africans Period. Unless people can prove that Fulanis who have E3a 100% is also found in High Frequencies in the Middle East.

As for Cameroonian Arabs, Are these "Real" arabs, or Africans that think they Are Arabs because of their beliefs?

Peace

---

King please don't take anything that comes out of that posters mouth into regard, he's basically basing his claims on myths and false history.

Cameroonian Arabs are not real Arabs, i.e. Saudi Arabians. Cameroonian Arabs are Arabnized former Nilo-Saharan, Niger-Congo, and Chadic speaking groups. They have various ties with other "Arabic" speaking Chadian and Sudanese
"Arabs". Genetically they're no different from other near by non-Arabnized Africans.

Baggara Arabs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0Vj4cc_i4

http://www.ancienthistoricalsociety.org/images/baggaraman.jpg

http://www.ancienthistoricalsociety.org/images/Kababishwoman.jpg

http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/c/ca/cavalier_arabe_du_dkakir_sur_un_cheval_caparaonn.jpg

http://www.shuwaarabinitiatives.org/picture_library/17.jpg

http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/b/ba/baggara_in_kordofan.jpg
 

---

Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
 
I have found some other information here. I'm not sure of the validity of it though. I just thought it was interesting, and may be related to some of the posts.


Could it be possible that Kush was part of the Arabian peninsula before the split that formed the Red Sea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea

The Red Sea was formed by Arabia splitting from Africa due to movement of the Red Sea Rift. This split started in the Eocene and accelerated during the Oligocene. The sea is still widening and it is considered that the sea will become an ocean in time (as proposed in the model of John Tuzo Wilson).

Sometimes during the Tertiary period the Bab el Mandeb closed and the Red Sea evaporated to an empty hot dry salt-floored sink.





Kush, Ethiopia

Even though the name Kush is usually associated with Ethiopia, Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia, Southern Mesopotamia, Elam and probably a branch of them reached India as well. Nimrod was a Kushite. Assyrian records mention Kûsh and Mushur (or Mushri) in reference to the Northern Arabian peoples conquered by Asarhaddon, as a different event from his conquest of Egypt, and the same peoples are mentioned as tributaries by earlier Assyrian kings, who have not conquered Egypt. These names recall the Biblical brothers Kush and Mitzrayim, namely Ethiopia and Egypt, very closely associated in ancient times, but obviously located in Africa. Yet, many tribes of Arabia show an evident Hamitic, not Semitic origin. Yishmael's mother and wife were Egyptians, and he settled with his family in territories inhabited by Kushitic and Semitic tribes, in Arabia. Yishmaelites might have been identified as an Egyptian tribe by the pure Semitic Assyrians. Therefore, the association between Kush and Mitzrayim existed on both shores of the Red Sea. The Hamitic Arabian tribes were subdued by Semitic peoples (Midyanites, Lihyanites, Sabeans, etc.), but some typical Kushite features prevailed, for example, many Arabian kingdoms were usually ruled by queens, like the early Ethiopic kingdoms.
The Ethiopians claim an ancestral link to Israelites, and some historical facts apparently support any evidence, but most of such tradition is based on legendary accounts. Most of the historical facts (in which Kushites had anyway some participation) were transferred by Aksumite Ethiopians from the original scenery in Arabia to their own land. Indeed, the Aliyah projects that allowed Ethiopian Jews to resettle in Eretz Yisrael, "Operation Moses" and "Operation Solomon", were called that way after Ethiopian legends and not according to historical accounts. Such legends concern the Kushite wife of Mosheh and the Queen of Sheva (who was not Ethiopian but Yemenite). Besides these traditions, Ethiopians are the only people in the world claiming to have the Ark of the Covenant. However, these legends as well as the actual presence of a Jewish lineage in Ethiopia since ancient times need an explanation, that may be developed considering the related historical facts regarding: 1) Mosheh's Kushite wife, and 2) the Queen of Sheva's identity.


Read the rest here: http://www.imninalu.net/tribes2.htm

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

quote:

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:
^This thread is no longer even worth continuing!!

We now have a bunch of posters with various un-scientific centric views, either Afrocentric or Arabcentric, posting about myths and theories with no evidence to support such claims.

^LOL, the Kingdom of Kush like I've said previously was located in what is now northern Sudan and Upper Egypt, it had NOTHING to do with Arabia.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
I only posted to show that the article stated "Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia".

Mande peoples were Kushites right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:
^This thread is no longer even worth continuing!!

We now have a bunch of posters with various un-scientific centric views, either Afrocentric or Arabcentric, posting about myths and theories with no evidence to support such claims.

^LOL, the Kingdom of Kush like I've said previously was located in what is now northern Sudan and Upper Egypt, it had NOTHING to do with Arabia.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji
I only posted to show that the article stated "Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia".

Mande peoples were Kushites right?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
I only posted to show that the article stated "Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia".

Mande peoples were Kushites right?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:
^This thread is no longer even worth continuing!!

We now have a bunch of posters with various un-scientific centric views, either Afrocentric or Arabcentric, posting about myths and theories with no evidence to support such claims.

^LOL, the Kingdom of Kush like I've said previously was located in what is now northern Sudan and Upper Egypt, it had NOTHING to do with Arabia.

---

---

In the Bibical sence, yes I quess... Ham and to an extent Kush being the Bibical father of all Africans.

Historically, no... the Mande are not associated with the historical Kingdom of Kush.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji
I only posted to show that the article stated "Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia".

Mande peoples were Kushites right?

---

Nefer
That depends on what you define as Kushite. If you take it to mean ''black'' then yes, they're Cushites. Ancient outsiders used the word to refer to black people in general so I guess you can call them Cushites, but nothing makes them specifically Cushites. If you're going to use it in that sense, you may just as wel call every black person a Cushite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:

i was thinking tuhe same thing ya ibn berry concerning the dna issue. i was wondering if you have seen the quote from other leading nations from the modern continent.
Im the kebra negast the AKSUMITES write

quote:

---

and therefore the children of ishmael became kings over tereb and over kebet, and over NOBA(northern sudan)and overSOBA(southern sudan)kuergue,and kifi, and maka(mecca), and morna, and finkana, and arsibana,and liba(lybia), and mase'a and they were the seed of shem.

---

kebra the glory of the kings is an account written in Ge'ez of the origins of the Solomonic line of the Emperors of Ethiopia. The text, in its existing form, is at least seven hundred years old, and is considered by many Ethiopian Christians and Rastafarians to be an inspired and a reliable account. Not only does it contain an account of how the Queen of Sheba met Solomon, and about how the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia with Menelik I, but contains an account of the conversion of the Ethiopians from the worship of the sun, moon, and stars to that of the "Lord God of Israel". As Edward Ullendorff explained in the 1967 Schweich Lectures, "The Kebra Nagast is not merely a literary work, but -- as the Old Testament to the Hebrews or the Qur'an to the Arabs -- it is the repository of Ethiopian national and religious feelings."[1]
european scholarship say that it is mere folklore and legends and the earliest version of the book was written in arabic?

quote:

---

According to the colophon attached to most of the existing copies, the Kebra Nagast originally was written in Coptic, then translated into Arabic in the Year of Mercy 409 (dated to AD 1225)[8] by a team of Ethiopian clerics during the office of Abuna Abba Giyorgis, and finally into Ge'ez at the command of the governor of Enderta province Ya'ibika Igzi'. Based on the testimony of this colophon, "Conti Rossini, Littmann, and Cerulli, inter alios, have marked off the period 1314 to 1321-1322 for the composition of the book."[9]. Marcus, (1994), indicated that the religious epic story was conflated in the fourteenth century by six Tigrayan scribes. Other sources put it as a work of the fourteenth century Nebura’ed Yeshaq of Aksum.

Careful study of the text has revealed traces of Arabic, possibly pointing to an Arabic vorlage, but no clear evidence of a previous Coptic version. Many scholars doubt that a Coptic version ever existed, and that the history of the text goes back no further than the Arabic vorlage.[10] On the other hand, the numerous quotations in the text from the Bible were not translated from this hypothetical Arabic vorlage, but were copied from the Ethiopian translation of the Bible, either directly or from memory, and in their use and interpretation shows the influence of patristic sources such as Gregory of Nyssa.

---

the ethiopians claim that there are arabs in the north and south of sudan in the kebra but the kebra is recorded in 1225 but the closest thing to anything arabic is the funj empire which is from 1504-onward. now looking at the following map i can easily see how the nigerian complex recieved alot of arab migrations.


then u have the baqaara from the central chadian area also. this map corresponds also alot with what uthamn bin-dan fodio statement in "Infaq al- maysurfi ta 'rikh bilad al-Takrur"

great work in your book by the way the arab migrations and comtributions to the "modern african complex" is definitely politically dismissed. keep up the good work. salam

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
I was just told that Kush was an ancient area that was inhabited with Kushites, and Cushitic is a modern language. And, of course I mean "black peoples". I am very confused.

Thank you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji
I only posted to show that the article stated "Kushite peoples were in early times the inhabitants of the whole Arabia".

Mande peoples were Kushites right?

---

Nefer
That depends on what you define as Kushite. If you take it to mean ''black'' then yes, they're Cushites. Ancient outsiders used the word to refer to black people in general so I guess you can call them Cushites, but nothing makes them specifically Cushites. If you're going to use it in that sense, you may just as wel call every black person a Cushite.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
Nefer & Doctoris Scientia
That is exactly why I recommend moving away from the term when referring to the origins of ancient populations. Cush means everything to everyone and in ancient times there was confusion about who should be considered a ''Cushite''. Many scholars either restrict Cush to Africa in other to sweep under the rug the fact that West Asia was populated by blacks too. Some related to recent Africans, and others related to light skinned west Asians. Other scholars restrict Cush to Arabia in order to exclude Africa from the achievements that the bible attributes to Cushites. Other scholars agree that black people were found on both sides of the red sea, and that these people would be called Cushite by the ancients whenever they stumbled upon them, whether they lived in Africa, or the northpole.

The Assyrians reffered to lands south of them (Arabia) as Kush.

The Bible incorporates Mesapotamia as part of the Kushite land AND surrounding areas.

The ancient scholar Josephus identifies all sons of Cush that the bible recorded with tribes he knew, and he designated ALL of them in Arabia, not one of them in Africa.

Egyptians refer to a kingdom south of them as ''Kesh''.

A people referred to as ''Kashites'' conquered Mesopotamia and some speculate that they should be considered Cushites too.

That should give you an idea why it creates so much confusion. Awlaadberry would have us believe that all these black peoples are one big family, by calling then descendants of Cush, while they are not. The biblical Cush lives around 2500bc, this can never account for all black people we see today. Black people around the world don't have a common ancestor by 2500bc.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Ok, thank you for this information.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Nefer & Doctoris Scientia
That is exactly why I recommend moving away from the term when referring to the origins of ancient populations. Cush means everything to everyone and in ancient times there was confusion about who should be considered a ''Cushite''. Many scholars either restrict Cush to Africa in other to sweep under the rug the fact that West Asia was populated by blacks too. Some related to recent Africans, and others related to light skinned west Asians. Other scholars restrict Cush to Arabia in order to exclude Africa from the achievements that the bible attributes to Cushites. Other scholars agree that black people were found on both sides of the red sea, and that these people would be called Cushite by the ancients whenever they stumbled upon them, whether they lived in Africa, or the northpole.

The Assyrians reffered to lands south of them (Arabia) as Kush.

The Bible incorporates Mesapotamia as part of the Kushite land AND surrounding areas.

The ancient scholar Josephus identifies all sons of Cush that the bible recorded with tribes he knew, and he designated ALL of them in Arabia, not one of them in Africa.

Egyptians refer to a kingdom south of them as ''Kesh''.

A people referred to as ''Kashites'' conquered Mesopotamia and some speculate that they should be considered Cushites too.

That should give you an idea why it creates so much confusion. Awlaadberry would have us believe that all these black peoples are one big family, by calling then descendants of Cush, while they are not. The biblical Cush lives around 2500bc, this can never account for all black people we see today. Black people around the world don't have a common ancestor by 2500bc.

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Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

quote:

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wow!!! that is so impressive. this is weird though because a person from mali is saying that the people who ran mali and timbuktu claimed arab ancestry is nothing but a farce because of the jewish european discipline of anthropology, d.n.a., and missionary science.

ya bin berry did you know that europe sends african-european spies to arab countries to pose as students. i was told this by a cameroonian arab. i didnt know the love alot of africans had for their colonial masters. i was awe struck.

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Please, this is what I mean by false science. I'M from MALI, I know my history and that history is that of the Western Sudan and greater African complex. It has nothing to do with myths made up during the Islamic era, there's no evidence of any large scale Southwest Asian or Arab ancestry in Mali via Arab men during the past 2 centuries.

Muslim, Christian, and Jewish peoples of all paths claim linkage with the peoples or individuals associated with their specific religion. It dosen't mean that those myths are real, it's very unlikely that Arab men spawned half of the modern ethnicities located across half of the Old World, from Albania to Tanzania to China. It Just Didn't Happen!!!

"Love for their colonial masters"... WTF, and what we should have an alliance with you ARABSSSS... please!

The only thing that supports the relationship betweens Arabs and Africans is Islam, other then that the relationship is rather negative. [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Mr. Berry, correct me if I'm wrong but, wouldn't it be more reasonable to use "Yemeni" if you originate from Yemen, as opposed to using "Arab" as your origin? Isn't Yemen a country? The peninsula is Arabia? Are you claiming the whole peninsula of Arabia by stating that you are "Arab"? I'm honestly confused about the terms being used. I'm really just curious to know this.

Please explain this to me.

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Ok, thank you for this information.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:
Nefer & Doctoris Scientia
That is exactly why I recommend moving away from the term when referring to the origins of ancient populations. Cush means everything to everyone and in ancient times there was confusion about who should be considered a ''Cushite''. Many scholars either restrict Cush to Africa in other to sweep under the rug the fact that West Asia was populated by blacks too. Some related to recent Africans, and others related to light skinned west Asians. Other scholars restrict Cush to Arabia in order to exclude Africa from the achievements that the bible attributes to Cushites. Other scholars agree that black people were found on both sides of the red sea, and that these people would be called Cushite by the ancients whenever they stumbled upon them, whether they lived in Africa, or the northpole.

The Assyrians reffered to lands south of them (Arabia) as Kush.

The Bible incorporates Mesapotamia as part of the Kushite land AND surrounding areas.

The ancient scholar Josephus identifies all sons of Cush that the bible recorded with tribes he knew, and he designated ALL of them in Arabia, not one of them in Africa.

Egyptians refer to a kingdom south of them as ''Kesh''.

A people referred to as ''Kashites'' conquered Mesopotamia and some speculate that they should be considered Cushites too.

That should give you an idea why it creates so much confusion. Awlaadberry would have us believe that all these black peoples are one big family, by calling then descendants of Cush, while they are not. The biblical Cush lives around 2500bc, this can never account for all black people we see today. Black people around the world don't have a common ancestor by 2500bc.

---

---

First of all, who mentioned Kush first? Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush? The only reason I recall mentioning Kush is when someone said that the Canaanites are not Semitic because they are from Kush. I said that Arab tradition says that Kush is a descendant of Sam. And I said that that could explain why some known Semitic peoples are mentioned as descendants of Kush. Because Kush is from Sam not Ham.

People on both sides of the Read Sea claiming descent from Kush will create confusion only to those who have built a gigantic wall in their heads separating "Africa" from Arabia.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

When I say Cushitic I mean "Ethiopian." I use Cush or the 'Cushitic' nation the same way the bible uses Ethiopian or Ethiopia (Cush). The original, indigenous Arabs would have been a nation descended from Cush (Ethiopia). I think I know what you mean but for a people who had a writing system how can they lose it. Wouldn't they have brought it with them. How can so many pockets of Fulani groups lose their language. I say that because pockets of Fulanis are found in many regions and/or countries in Africa. How can every last one of them lose the language. Not one sole or clan clinged to the language or writing even when different families and/or clans settled in different locations according to their needs. What other tribes other than fulani that speaks the same language as fulani? If fulani lost their language why they all speak the same language (some with different dialects)even though they are settled in different regions. Don't you think it makes since that the Fulanis in Nigeria would speak Yoruba, Hausa or another language that is common to Nigeria. Or the Fulanis in Senegal/Gambia would speak Wolof, or the Fulanis in Sudan would speak a nilotic language or dialect? Does that make sense? How did they all concluded to the fulani language? Are there any Arab tribes/clans that reside today in the Arabian peninsula that shares the same ancestry as the fulani? If so, who are they.

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quote:

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Doctoris Scientia you keep saying that you are from Mali like it means something. All it means is that you are a Malian who knows nothing about the history of Mali. You seem to have a personal problem with Arabs. What's your problem with Arabs if you don't mind my asking. Also, are you a Muslim? Why are you sitting here misleading people who know no better by saying things about Mali that you know are not true? You say that there are no Arabs in Mali. Do you really believe that? What about these Malian Arabs:

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=51377

ARE YOU REALLY FROM MALI??? [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

quote:

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Doctoris Scientia you keep saying that you are from Mali like it means something. All it means is that you are a Malian who knows nothing about the history of Mali. You seem to have a personal problem with Arabs. What's your problem with Arabs if you don't mind my asking. Also, are you a Muslim? Why are you sitting here misleading people who know no better by saying things about Mali that you know are not true? You say that there are no Arabs in Mali. Do you really believe that? What about these Malian Arabs:

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=51377

ARE YOU REALLY FROM MALI???

---

I know the history of my people and my country.. it means everything, I've actually come in contact with the various people who inhabit Mali and surrounding countries, you don't. You simply base theories and claims on myths, myths that all seem to trace back to the Islamic era...cough. I've yet to here Malians describe themselves as Arab or of Arab ancestry. Ask any Tuareg, ask any Mande, ask any Fulani... we are all AFRICANS.

You wan't me to tellyou the truth, I really don't care for Arabs. Other then Islam, Arabs fucked up mush of Africa... on the web they claim linkage with Africans, a false brotherhood... but in reality, there's nothing brotherly about our, Africans, relationship with Arabs.

I've never seen or heard of any ethnic Malian Arabs.

Funny, how your article is the only web source in regard to Malian "Arabs".

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=malian+arabs&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=ca6b5a4f84435186

Some articles falsely assume that the various northern Saharan tribes are rather indeed "Arab", but in reality thats pure utter nonsence. Those tribesw belong to various Tuareg and Moorish clans.

Moors

http://news.abidjan.net/photos/photos/MAURITANIE1.jpg
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/berbers_2.jpg
http://wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/userpix/2758_BildQQ_002_2.jpg

Or in some cases they may be refering to western Baggara tribes, who moved west via Chad. These people arn't real Arabs, they're Arabnized Africans.

Malis view of these Chadian Baggara Arabs is similar to that of Niger... DEPORTATION, LOL

"Diffa Arabs (also known as Mahamid Arabs) is the Nigerien name given to Afro-Arab nomadic tribespeople living in eastern Niger, mostly in the Diffa Region. Numbering no more than 150,000 and accounting for less than %1.5 of the Niger's population, the Diffa Arabs are in fact the western most dispersion of Arabic speaking Sudanese nomads, primarily drawn from the Mahamid sub clan of Sudan and Chad."

"In October 2006, Niger announced that it would deport the Arabs living in the Diffa region of eastern Niger to Chad. This population numbered about 150,000. While the government was rounding up Arabs in preparation for the deportation, two girls died, reportedly after fleeing government forces, and three women suffered miscarriages. Niger's government eventually suspended a controversial decision to deport Arabs. Arab Nigeriens protested that they were legal citizens of Niger, with no other home to return to, and that the Military of Niger had seized their livestock, their only means of livelihood."

Not only the government, other peoples what them out also, my people the Tuareg included!!

"Many in the Diffa Arab community fought against 1990s Tuareg rebellion, and in recent years, have come into increased conflict with Hausa, Kanuri, and Tuareg communities. News reports quote Nigerien officials during the 2001 census reporting that Arab communities were in constant conflict with their neighbors over resources, were armed, and that "A relative unanimity prevails among the population who want them to leave the area"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!

Mali population

Ethnic groups: Mande 50% (Bambara, Malinke, Soninke), Peul 17%, Voltaic 12%, Songhai 6%, Tuareg and Moor 10%, other 5%

Niger population

Ethnic groups

Hausa 56%, Djerma 22%, Tuareg 8.5%, Fulani 8%, Beri (Kanouri) 4.3%, (Arabnized Baggara, Toubou and Gourmantche) 1.2%, and about 10,000 French expatriates

Also, of note..

West African Arabnized Africans only entered the region in the 1800s..

"The Nigerien Arab populations include groups drawn from the Shoa or Baggara Arabs, the first clans of whom are believed to have arrived in what is now Niger sometime in the 19th century. Small groups of the Ouled Sliman, overrunning the Kanem Empire, filtered into the area between the late 19th century and 1923, joining with those Shoa pastoralists who were already centered in Tintouma area. In the 1950s a small number of Kanem-Chadian Arabs moved into the area, but the population remained small. In the mid 70s there were only around 4000 nomadic Arabs in eastern Niger. But following the 1974 Sahelian Drought a much large population of Sudan Arab clans began to move into Niger, followed by others fleeing the civil war and the Chadian-Libyan conflict in the 1980s, settling near Diffa." [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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quote:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

---

You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

---

It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

---

Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

---

Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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No they didn't
Arabic is part of the Afrasan language family.
Afrasan languages spread out of Africa during the holocene. This means that the indigenous population spoke another language before that. Arabia was populated way before the holocene, are you suggesting they were mute back then..?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

---

You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

---

It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

---

Aren't Kushites the descendants of Kush like Elamites are the descendants of Elam and Amalekites are the descendants of Amalek and Canaanites are the descendants of Canaan and Semites are the descendants of Sam, etc.??? I don't understand what you are saying.

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry
Ancient Arabic or modern Arabic - Arabs spoke Arabic. If you know of them speaking another language, tell me the name of this language. Are you aware of the fact that Aad and Thamud spoke an old form of Arabic and that Ya'arub the son of Qahtan spoke Arabic? So which Arabs do you know of that didn't speak Arabic?

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

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It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

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Aren't Kushites the descendants of Kush like Elamites are the descendants of Elam and Amalekites are the descendants of Amalek and Canaanites are the descendants of Canaan and Semites are the descendants of Sam, etc.??? I don't understand what you are saying.

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Like I've said earlier,
I will put it in laymans terms this time

All these population pre-date Noah!

Proto neolithic settlements of Jericho (Canaanites?) date back to 10.000bc
Black Natufians (Canaanites?) were present by 10.000bc
The Elamite city of Susa was founded by 5000bc
Badarians (ancestors of the Egyptians) were present by 5000bc
Early Khartoum and Nabta Playa (who later would be called ''Nubians'') were present by 8000bc

They can't be descendants from

Canaan who lived around 2500bc
Elam who lived around 2500bc
Misraim who lived around 2500bc
Cush who lived around 2500bc

This means that:
-The people you call ''descendants of Kush'' on both sides of the red sea are NOT from the same source per se.
-The ''land of Kush'' as a substittute for ''Africa'' is NOT an accurate term, not for Africa, not for Sudan, unless we simply want to point out what the ancients thought or use the term loosely.
-The people you see as ''descendants of Kush'' on both sides of the Red Sea are NOT ultimately descendants of some person in the middle east you call ''Shem''. It is the other way around. black people, including the ones you call descendants of Cush, find their ultimate origin in Africa.
Not in some ancient Middle eastern ''Shem''.

Is this so hard to understand..? This is basic history. Look, you are free to believe what you want, but don't state your views as facts and expect us to not scrutinize them.

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry
Ancient Arabic or modern Arabic - Arabs spoke Arabic. If you know of them speaking another language, tell me the name of this language. Are you aware of the fact that Aad and Thamud spoke an old form of Arabic and that Ya'arub the son of Qahtan spoke Arabic? So which Arabs do you know of that didn't speak Arabic?

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LOL
You really have difficulty absorbing the facts don't you?
Even after my clear explanation, derrived from linguistic analysis, you still talk in terms of ancient characters, who by the way fit perfectly within this holocene time frame I spoke of. In other words, of course they spoke afrasan languages, the figures you mention are said to have existed way after the introduction of Afrasan languages in Arabia. What you need to understand, is that the original Arabs are not from this time period. There seems to be entire chapters of world of history missing from your reasoning. Everything has to do with holocene times periods, but never pre-historic, the period that is crucial for understanding the origins of populations.

If you don't have this basis, you need to study it, and everything said here will make sense to you.

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

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It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

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Aren't Kushites the descendants of Kush like Elamites are the descendants of Elam and Amalekites are the descendants of Amalek and Canaanites are the descendants of Canaan and Semites are the descendants of Sam, etc.??? I don't understand what you are saying.

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Like I've said earlier,
I will put it in laymans terms this time

All these population pre-date Noah!

Proto neolithic settlements of Jericho (Canaanites?) date back to 10.000bc
Black Natufians (Canaanites?) were present by 10.000bc
The Elamite city of Susa was founded by 5000bc
Badarians (ancestors of the Egyptians) were present by 5000bc
Early Khartoum and Nabta Playa (who later would be called ''Nubians'') were present by 8000bc

They can't be descendants from

Canaan who lived around 2500bc
Elam who lived around 2500bc
Misraim who lived around 2500bc
Cush who lived around 2500bc

This means that:
-The people you call ''descendants of Kush'' on both sides of the red sea are NOT from the same source per se.
-The ''land of Kush'' as a substittute for ''Africa'' is NOT an accurate term, not for Africa, not for Sudan, unless we simply want to point out what the ancients thought or use the term loosely.
-The people you see as ''descendants of Kush'' on both sides of the Red Sea are NOT ultimately descendants of some person in the middle east you call ''Shem''. It is the other way around. black people, including the ones you call descendants of Cush, find their ultimate origin in Africa.
Not in some ancient Middle eastern ''Shem''.

Is this so hard to understand..? This is basic history. Look, you are free to believe what you want, but don't state your views as facts and expect us to not scrutinize them.

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Pre-date Noah?! Yes. That's very hard to understand. Like I said before, it's clear that you don't believe that there was such a thing as the Flood and that Noah existed and that we are all descendants of Sam, Ham, and Japheth - the three sons of Noah, so why am I even discussing this with you. You need to have this discussion with an atheist. You're talking to the wrong person now and so am I. So let's just end this discussion here and now. OK?

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry:
Pre-date Noah?! Yes. That's very hard to understand. Like I said before, it's clear that you don't believe that there was such a thing as the Flood and that Noah existed and that we are all descendants of Sam, Ham, and Japheth - the three sons of Noah, so why am I even discussing this with you. You need to have this discussion with an atheist. You're talking to the wrong person now and so am I. So let's just end this discussion here and now. OK?

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LOL
Translation:
I'm not open to learning new things, and alternative views, I only want to impose my views on other people. I won't even ponder what people tell me, nor will I take them into consideration, because of the serious implications this has for the rest of my book.

Guess what Awlaad, what I am saying is what you'll eventually have to confront anyway, after all, you wrote a book with these views in it. I don't know how well received your book is, but if this is the first time you hear these views, either your buyers are unaware of modern science, or you just haven't sold many copies. See, what scholars here in the west are morally obligated to do, is take criticism into consideration, and come up with resonses, or suffer a loss of reputation. No one, not even religious creationists, or advocates of intelligent design retreat when discussing with people who don't share their views. the facts are laid out for you, and it is up to you to accept them or refute them, retreating is not an option. That simply means your views are not valid, period.

You can either willfully restrict your views to recent time periods and close your eyes to pre-history, or you can accept the fact that there were people way before Noah, with identities, and cultural traits that they were supposed to have after Noah. There is no: you have other views, I have other views, lets me exit gracefully and leave it and that.

That might work when there is not enough or contradicting research, and when you're an individual. The truth is, as a teacher, you have several responsibiliies, and it is up to you what you'll do with the information I gave you.

Keep spreading the same things I refuted for you or evolve, learn and teach people the whole, complete picture, even if it contradicts what you want to be true.

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

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I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

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Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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When I say Cushitic I mean "Ethiopian." I use Cush or the 'Cushitic' nation the same way the bible uses Ethiopian or Ethiopia (Cush). The original, indigenous Arabs would have been a nation descended from Cush (Ethiopia). I think I know what you mean but for a people who had a writing system how can they lose it. Wouldn't they have brought it with them. How can so many pockets of Fulani groups lose their language. I say that because pockets of Fulanis are found in many regions and/or countries in Africa. How can every last one of them lose the language. Not one sole or clan clinged to the language or writing even when different families and/or clans settled in different locations according to their needs. What other tribes other than fulani that speaks the same language as fulani? If fulani lost their language why they all speak the same language (some with different dialects)even though they are settled in different regions. Don't you think it makes since that the Fulanis in Nigeria would speak Yoruba, Hausa or another language that is common to Nigeria. Or the Fulanis in Senegal/Gambia would speak Wolof, or the Fulanis in Sudan would speak a nilotic language or dialect? Does that make sense? How did they all concluded to the fulani language? Are there any Arab tribes/clans that reside today in the Arabian peninsula that shares the same ancestry as the fulani? If so, who are they.

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All Arabs are descendants of Sam. Concerning the Fulani, though there are pockets of Fulanis in different regions, they developed as a tribe in one region and then spread out to different regions. Once a tribe has developed as a tribe, there is no need for that tribe to adopt different languages when they move together, as a tribe, from one region to another. There isn't an Arab tribe today residing on the Arabian Peninsula that shares the same ancestry as the Fulani, but there is an Arab tribe on the Arabian Peninsula that the Fulani share an ancestry with and that is the tribe of Quraish because Uqba ibn Nafie, the ancestor of the Fulanis, was from the tribe of Quraish. There is also an Arab tribe in the Sudan called Awlaad Uqba who are descended from Uqba ibn Nafie. The Kunta Arabs of Mali and Mauritania are also descended from Uqba bn Nafi. There are many peoples across "Africa" who are descended from him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uqba_ibn_Nafi

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

---

You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

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It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

---

Aren't Kushites the descendants of Kush like Elamites are the descendants of Elam and Amalekites are the descendants of Amalek and Canaanites are the descendants of Canaan and Semites are the descendants of Sam, etc.??? I don't understand what you are saying.

---

Like I've said earlier,
I will put it in laymans terms this time

All these population pre-date Noah!

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

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Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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When I say Cushitic I mean "Ethiopian." I use Cush or the 'Cushitic' nation the same way the bible uses Ethiopian or Ethiopia (Cush). The original, indigenous Arabs would have been a nation descended from Cush (Ethiopia). I think I know what you mean but for a people who had a writing system how can they lose it. Wouldn't they have brought it with them. How can so many pockets of Fulani groups lose their language. I say that because pockets of Fulanis are found in many regions and/or countries in Africa. How can every last one of them lose the language. Not one sole or clan clinged to the language or writing even when different families and/or clans settled in different locations according to their needs. What other tribes other than fulani that speaks the same language as fulani? If fulani lost their language why they all speak the same language (some with different dialects)even though they are settled in different regions. Don't you think it makes since that the Fulanis in Nigeria would speak Yoruba, Hausa or another language that is common to Nigeria. Or the Fulanis in Senegal/Gambia would speak Wolof, or the Fulanis in Sudan would speak a nilotic language or dialect? Does that make sense? How did they all concluded to the fulani language? Are there any Arab tribes/clans that reside today in the Arabian peninsula that shares the same ancestry as the fulani? If so, who are they.

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All Arabs are descendants of Sam. Concerning the Fulani, though there are pockets of Fulanis in different regions, they developed as a tribe in one region and then spread out to different regions. Once a tribe has developed as a tribe, there is no need for that tribe to adopt different languages when they move together, as a tribe, from one region to another. There isn't an Arab tribe today residing on the Arabian Peninsula that shares the same ancestry as the Fulani, but there is an Arab tribe on the Arabian Peninsula that the Fulani share an ancestry with and that is the tribe of Quraish because Uqba ibn Nafie, the ancestor of the Fulanis, was from the tribe of Quraish. There is also an Arab tribe in the Sudan called Awlaad Uqba who are descended from Uqba ibn Nafie. The Kunta Arabs of Mali and Mauritania are also descended from Uqba bn Nafi. There are many peoples across "Africa" who are descended from him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uqba_ibn_Nafi

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I think we will not agree on this. I don't believe ALL Arabs descended from Shem. Many Arab tribes which are actually founded in the North i.e., modern day Israel and Jordan are descendants of Ham. Original, Indigenous Arabs don't come from the 'Yemen' region. The original people in the 'Yemen' region were/are tribes of Shem and Cush but not "Arab" though I am not denying Arab tribe(s) may have resided there. I think we have to ask did tribes from both brothers (Ham and Shem) made-up Arab tribes/clans or was it solely Shem descendants or solely Ham descendants. From my knowledge, Arabs were Cush descendants and not Shem; however I wouldn't deny a "Semetic" Arab tribe if intermarriage took place or cultural influence took place. You didn't explain how did the Fulani group end up speaking Fulani. What groups outside the Fulani group speaks Fulani. If the Fulani people lost their original Arab tongue and writing system who are the people that influence them to adopt a Fulani tongue.

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

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Originally posted by Awlaadberry
Secondly, where and when did I say that all black-skinned people are descended from Kush?

---

It doesn't matter if they are descendants of Kush, or his brother or his uncle. The fact remains, that even if Cush had existed, and that is a gigantic if, you never be able to distinguish his descendants from the descendants of this ''mysterious'' other son of Noah who would bring forth the other blacks. You wouldn't be able to make this statement:

And Kushites were found on both sides of the Red Sea, so that's why you can't call the Kushites on the left side of the Red Sea one thing and the Kushites on the right side of the Red Sea another thing.

---

Aren't Kushites the descendants of Kush like Elamites are the descendants of Elam and Amalekites are the descendants of Amalek and Canaanites are the descendants of Canaan and Semites are the descendants of Sam, etc.??? I don't understand what you are saying.

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Like I've said earlier,
I will put it in laymans terms this time

All these population pre-date Noah!

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These populations didn't predate Noah (Sorry).

Genesis 7:7 And No'ah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark...
Genesis 8:15 And God spake unto No'ah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Genesis 9:18 And the sons of No'ah that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Ja'pheth:...These are the three sons of No'ah: and of them was the WHOLE earth overspread.

Let's back track to the part when the flood was over and they left the ark.
Genesis 9:1 And God blessed No'ah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

All those tribes and nations didn't exist before the flood. It wasn't until after the flood that tribes and nations (culture/tongue/customs/ethnic groups)existed because it was God that separated man after the flood not before the flood. Before the flood everyone was ONE.

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes Bettyboo. All Arabs descend from Sam. Gve me the names of specific Arab tribes that you think descend from Ham. I need names to show you the lineage. Tell me the names of the original tribes in Yemen that you are speaking of. ALL Arab tribes descend from Sam.

Isn't the Fulani language related to the Wolof language? Why couldn't their language have developed from interaction with other tribes in the area? Also, as you know, Uqba married a woman from the Turud (Torod) tribe. It is also said that the ancestor of the Wolof tribe, Abu Bakr ibn Umar, married a woman from the Turud tribe.

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Originally posted by astenb:
Sure they did. According to the bible We are all descendants of ADAM AND EVE. Not simply Ham, SHem and Japheth. What about Cain and Abel? What about Cain who killed his brother then when off to live SOMEWHERE ELSE and is the patriarch of OWN PEOPLES? Where do the WIVES of Ham, SHem and Japheth come from? How do you know those separate WIVES weren't just leading their husbands BACK to their RESPECTIVE HOMELAND after the FLOOD? This story taken literally leaves little doubt that these populations were ALREADY MIXED. Maybe I am missing something and Ham, Shem and Japheth were married to THEIR SISTERS but i didnt think that was the case, they could have gotten their wives from ANY prospective "Nation" or "Group of peoples."

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by astenb:
Sure they did. According to the bible We are all descendants of ADAM AND EVE. Not simply Ham, SHem and Japheth. What about Cain and Abel? What about Cain who killed his brother then when off to live SOMEWHERE ELSE and is the patriarch of OWN PEOPLES? Where do the WIVES of Ham, SHem and Japheth come from? How do you know those separate WIVES weren't just leading their husbands BACK to their RESPECTIVE HOMELAND after the FLOOD? This story taken literally leaves little doubt that these populations were ALREADY MIXED. Maybe I am missing something and Ham, Shem and Japheth were married to THEIR SISTERS but i didnt think that was the case, they could have gotten their wives from ANY prospective "Nation" or "Group of peoples."

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Those tribes didn't exist because there weren't any tribes or nations before the flood. Sure people existed but everyone was ONE and it was only Shem, Ham, Japheth, Noah and their wives that enter the ark before the flood and left the ark after the flood. There weren't nations and tongues before the flood. God made nations and tongues after the flood. Those tribes didn't exist. They existed after the tower of Babel. One nation of Shem was born AFTER the world was divided...It is PELEG and his descendants. That nation didn't even exist during the tower of Babel. What make you think that Shem, Ham, and Jaspeth were married to their sisters? Where do that come from. What homeland are you speaking about.

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes Bettyboo. All Arabs descend from Sam. Gve me the names of specific Arab tribes that you think descend from Ham. I need names to show you the lineage. Tell me the names of the original tribes in Yemen that you are speaking of. ALL Arab tribes descend from Sam.

Isn't the Fulani language related to the Wolof language? Why couldn't their language have developed from interaction with other tribes in the area? Also, as you know, Uqba married a woman from the Turud (Torod) tribe. It is also said that the ancestor of the Wolof tribe, Abu Bakr ibn Umar, married a woman from the Turud tribe.

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We are not going to agree. Shem descendants were in present day 'Yemen' and East of present day Israel and Jordan and they stretch to Iraq, Iran. According to the bible the tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines those of Mt. Sanai, Kadesh and other areas in present day Israel, Jordan and northern part of Saudi Arabia are Arabs. I didn't ask if the Fulani language related to Wolof and you asked an interesting question. What if ALL Fulanis didn't settled amongst the Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani.Wolof and some chose to settle in other areas such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Nigeria, Niger, Mauritania, Chad; so why those people don't speak the language or dialect of the surrounding region. If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it.

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes Bettyboo. All Arabs descend from Sam. Gve me the names of specific Arab tribes that you think descend from Ham. I need names to show you the lineage. Tell me the names of the original tribes in Yemen that you are speaking of. ALL Arab tribes descend from Sam.

Isn't the Fulani language related to the Wolof language? Why couldn't their language have developed from interaction with other tribes in the area? Also, as you know, Uqba married a woman from the Turud (Torod) tribe. It is also said that the ancestor of the Wolof tribe, Abu Bakr ibn Umar, married a woman from the Turud tribe.

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We are not going to agree. Shem descendants were in present day 'Yemen' and East of present day Israel and Jordan and they stretch to Iraq, Iran. According to the bible the tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines those of Mt. Sanai, Kadesh and other areas in present day Israel, Jordan and northern part of Saudi Arabia are Arabs. I didn't ask if the Fulani language related to Wolof and you asked an interesting question. What if ALL Fulanis didn't settled amongst the Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani.Wolof and some chose to settle in other areas such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Nigeria, Niger, Mauritania, Chad; so why those people don't speak the language or dialect of the surrounding region. If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it.

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Yes. The tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines, etc. were Arabs and they were descended from Sam. The Canaanites are the children of Amalek the son of Lodh the son of Sam. Some say that Canaan is the son of Kush the son of Sam.

You said:

"Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani."

I agree with you (if I understand you correctly). And I believe that the Fulani language had already been developed when they began to move eastward again in the direction of Arabia (if you are asking why the Fulani language doesn't contain elements from all of the languages of the people in the different areas that you mentioned).

I don't understand what you mean here:

"If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it."

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes Bettyboo. All Arabs descend from Sam. Gve me the names of specific Arab tribes that you think descend from Ham. I need names to show you the lineage. Tell me the names of the original tribes in Yemen that you are speaking of. ALL Arab tribes descend from Sam.

Isn't the Fulani language related to the Wolof language? Why couldn't their language have developed from interaction with other tribes in the area? Also, as you know, Uqba married a woman from the Turud (Torod) tribe. It is also said that the ancestor of the Wolof tribe, Abu Bakr ibn Umar, married a woman from the Turud tribe.

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We are not going to agree. Shem descendants were in present day 'Yemen' and East of present day Israel and Jordan and they stretch to Iraq, Iran. According to the bible the tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines those of Mt. Sanai, Kadesh and other areas in present day Israel, Jordan and northern part of Saudi Arabia are Arabs. I didn't ask if the Fulani language related to Wolof and you asked an interesting question. What if ALL Fulanis didn't settled amongst the Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani.Wolof and some chose to settle in other areas such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Nigeria, Niger, Mauritania, Chad; so why those people don't speak the language or dialect of the surrounding region. If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it.

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Yes. The tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines, etc. were Arabs and they were descended from Sam. The Canaanites are the children of Amalek the son of Lodh the son of Sam. Some say that Canaan is the son of Kush the son of Sam.

You said:

"Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani."

I agree with you (if I understand you correctly). And I believe that the Fulani language had already been developed when they began to move eastward again in the direction of Arabia (if you are asking why the Fulani language doesn't contain elements from all of the languages of the people in the different areas that you mentioned).

I don't understand what you mean here:

"If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it."

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We are not going to agree. According to the Bible those tribes are of Ham not Shem. If you are a muslim then you probably would believe they are of Shem. We are not going to agree because I believe the bible to be true. I can't believe the Fulani story that they all learned the Fulani language (which is "similar" to Wolof) before moving back eastward. My last comment that you didn't understand was just thrown in there for emphasis. Speaking of the Fulani original tongue as Arabic. I was asking why the fulani didn't introduce the Arabic script to the people of the Senegambia region when they settled there. Wolof was first written in Arabic (a form of) when Islam was spread in West Africa. I was asking why did the Wolof and other surrounding tribes didn't practice Islam or Arabic writing before the spread of Islam if the influence of the Fulani people were amongst them.

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I really can't understand why it's difficult that imagine that the Fulani, being far away from Arabia, lost their language and developed a new one. It happens and has always happened over the years. That's why there are so many different languages. Right? Read this story about how the Fulani language was created and then click on the links and read the articles:

"Like most African peoples, the Fulani cherish a myth or legend about their origins which has survived in a number of similar, though not identical, forms. One version describes the marriage of a Moslem Arab, who is usually identified as Ukuba, to a woman of the Sudan called Bajjo Mangu. One day the mother goes to the well and leaves her youngest child in the care of one of its brothers. On her return she overhears the brother comforting the child in a strange language. She tells her husband who predicts that this is a sign that the child will be the founder of a new people who will not speak Arabic but will nevertheless be the saviours of Islam"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3662928.stm

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/07/do_we_have_all_the_tools_to_re.php

http://books.google.com/books?id=U4Kqamb3k9UC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=can+children+create+language&source=bl&ots=VguJpgqgg0&sig=EJqV0w0TOgM-LidV85sZJNpqYnU&hl=en&ei=5jC2S6K9Ds3W4gbq6bH ZDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCThG#v=onepage&q=can%20children%20create%20language&f=false

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
 

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Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:
Sure they did. According to the bible We are all descendants of ADAM AND EVE. Not simply Ham, SHem and Japheth. What about Cain and Abel? What about Cain who killed his brother then when off to live SOMEWHERE ELSE and is the patriarch of OWN PEOPLES? Where do the WIVES of Ham, SHem and Japheth come from? How do you know those separate WIVES weren't just leading their husbands BACK to their RESPECTIVE HOMELAND after the FLOOD? This story taken literally leaves little doubt that these populations were ALREADY MIXED. Maybe I am missing something and Ham, Shem and Japheth were married to THEIR SISTERS but i didnt think that was the case, they could have gotten their wives from ANY prospective "Nation" or "Group of peoples."

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Those tribes didn't exist because there weren't any tribes or nations before the flood. Sure people existed but everyone was ONE and it was only Shem, Ham, Japheth, Noah and their wives that enter the ark before the flood and left the ark after the flood. There weren't nations and tongues before the flood. God made nations and tongues after the flood. Those tribes didn't exist. They existed after the tower of Babel. One nation of Shem was born AFTER the world was divided...It is PELEG and his descendants. That nation didn't even exist during the tower of Babel. What make you think that Shem, Ham, and Jaspeth were married to their sisters? Where do that come from. What homeland are you speaking about.

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Cain was banished and became a WANDERER - he had the "mark" placed upon him so WHEREVER HE WANDERED (meaning different nations or people) they would not kill him UNTIL HE HAD "SEVEN GENERATIONS of offspring." Cain married his SISTER and started the FIRST CITY and also bore a children. What is the definition of CITY if it doesn't have multiple inhabitants? ---Here goes the "Tribe of Cain" right there.

Where did Cain wander to? There is NO TELLING how far he wandered. Now since there is no indication that the Wives of ham, Shem and Japheth were their sisters we cannot say for a fact that they came from the same town. IN FACT it is possible that they could be from one of the places that Cain wandered to, they could even be from the OFFSPRING OF CAIN!

That is the point. There is no reason to believe that these populations were not already differentiated. We cannot say for sure, So dont speak like its so "matter of fact"

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quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:
I would also add that the book of Enoch speaks of the watchers not only coming down to take wives of the daughters of men but also teaching humans magic, makeup, bringing mirrors and teaching men how to make WEAPONS AND ARMOR FOR WAR.

Just another indication that these separate groups may have already been involved in warfare.

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There isn't no book of Enoch in the bible. Who are watchers and where are they coming down from?
 

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Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
 
There is a Book of Henok it was found in its complete form in Abyssinia and translated by europeans.

In this Henok speaks about the watchers and the resources of the earth and plants and there uses as well as a bunch of other crazy stuff.
 

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Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
 
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Which original Arabs didn't speak Arabic?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
The ones you speak of in your book I read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Which original Arabs didn't speak Arabic?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
This is what I want to know. How did the Mande peoples migrate from Yemen if that is where they originate from according to Mr. Berry. I thought the Mande peoples originated from the Nile Valley area (Nubia).

quote:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

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Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
 
Am I wrong that this is what I thought?

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
This is what I want to know. How did the Mande peoples migrate from Yemen if that is where they originate from according to Mr. Berry. I thought the Mande peoples originated from the Nile Valley area (Nubia).

quote:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Awaalberry you bring up some interesting points but you can not explain how the Fulani migrated from Arabia, except for tales of Migrant Yemeni and Arab men marrying Fulani women(which would Imply that the Fulani existed).

Its obvious your take on Africa and Arabs is different from the current mainstream, The Fulani man you posted is an obvoius convert to Islam.

My question to you is how do you prove that the Fulani migrated to West Africa from Arabia?

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---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
The ones you speak of in your book I read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Which original Arabs didn't speak Arabic?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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I don't understand what you mean. Which original Arabs in Arabia did I mention not speaking Arabic?

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Why are you trying to confuse people? I was honestly looking for answers from you but, I see I'm not getting anywhere.

You keep saying, "I don't understand what you mean."

Nevermind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Why are you trying to confuse people? I was honestly looking for answers from you but, I see I'm not getting anywhere.

You keep saying, "I don't understand what you mean."

Nevermind.

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NeferKemet,
Arabia was peopled before Semitic was introduced in Arabia via Africa, so the original ''Arabians'' meaning, the people who lived there first, rather than some kind of phenotype bearing group some people may associate with it, were speaking a different language. Perhaps a language related to their northern neighbours that weren't strongly effected by the Afrasan speaking Africans. Elamite, or Sumerian perhaps.

Comparison of craniofacial features of major human groups.

Hanihara T.

Department of Anatomy, Tohoku University School of Medicine, Sendai, Japan.

Distance analysis and factor analysis, based on Q-mode correlation coefficients, were applied to 23 craniofacial measurements in 1,802 recent and prehistoric crania from major geographical areas of the Old World. The major findings are as follows: 1) Australians show closer similarities to African populations than to Melanesians. 2) Recent Europeans align with East Asians, and early West Asians resemble Africans. 3) The Asian population complex with regional difference between northern and southern members is manifest. 4) Clinal variations of craniofacial features can be detected in the Afro-European region on the one hand, and Australasian and East Asian region on the other hand. 5) The craniofacial variations of major geographical groups are not necessarily consistent with their geographical distribution pattern. This may be a sign that the evolutionary divergence in craniofacial shape among recent populations of different geographical areas is of a highly limited degree. Taking all of these into account, a single origin for anatomically modern humans is the most parsimonious interpretation of the craniofacial variations presented in this study.

Note
*West Asia, including Arabia was populated way before the introduction of semetic languages
*These early settlers can't be called ''descendants of Cush'' since they predate the biblical Cush
*These people are the original Arabs
*These people couldn't have spoken Arabian or semitic, because the language family from which both descend, didn't exist back then.
*The descendants of these people carry genetic and cultural markers that are sparse in Fulani and Mande ethnic groups, suggesting an African genesis
*You won't get useful answers from people who deny prehistoric time periods from history. These time periods are crucial for answering your question.

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Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
 
Hope that helped you

 

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Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Yes Bettyboo. All Arabs descend from Sam. Gve me the names of specific Arab tribes that you think descend from Ham. I need names to show you the lineage. Tell me the names of the original tribes in Yemen that you are speaking of. ALL Arab tribes descend from Sam.

Isn't the Fulani language related to the Wolof language? Why couldn't their language have developed from interaction with other tribes in the area? Also, as you know, Uqba married a woman from the Turud (Torod) tribe. It is also said that the ancestor of the Wolof tribe, Abu Bakr ibn Umar, married a woman from the Turud tribe.

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We are not going to agree. Shem descendants were in present day 'Yemen' and East of present day Israel and Jordan and they stretch to Iraq, Iran. According to the bible the tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines those of Mt. Sanai, Kadesh and other areas in present day Israel, Jordan and northern part of Saudi Arabia are Arabs. I didn't ask if the Fulani language related to Wolof and you asked an interesting question. What if ALL Fulanis didn't settled amongst the Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani.Wolof and some chose to settle in other areas such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Nigeria, Niger, Mauritania, Chad; so why those people don't speak the language or dialect of the surrounding region. If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it.

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Yes. The tribes of Canaan, Kedar, Amalek, philistines, etc. were Arabs and they were descended from Sam. The Canaanites are the children of Amalek the son of Lodh the son of Sam. Some say that Canaan is the son of Kush the son of Sam.

You said:

"Why couldn't the fulani language developed from interactions with other tribes in the area is what I'm asking you. So I have to assume that Fulani is just a dialect of Wolof and ALL fulanis settled in the SeneGambia region when they left 'Yemen' and that is how they speak a dialect of Wolof called Fulani."

I agree with you (if I understand you correctly). And I believe that the Fulani language had already been developed when they began to move eastward again in the direction of Arabia (if you are asking why the Fulani language doesn't contain elements from all of the languages of the people in the different areas that you mentioned).

I don't understand what you mean here:

"If Fulani is just another Wolof language why didn't the Wolof use the standard Arabic as their first writing system instead of a spin-off and why did the Wolof had to wait until the spread of Islam to adopt a writing system. Why didn't the Fulani people introduce it."

---

We are not going to agree. According to the Bible those tribes are of Ham not Shem. If you are a muslim then you probably would believe they are of Shem. We are not going to agree because I believe the bible to be true. I can't believe the Fulani story that they all learned the Fulani language (which is "similar" to Wolof) before moving back eastward. My last comment that you didn't understand was just thrown in there for emphasis. Speaking of the Fulani original tongue as Arabic. I was asking why the fulani didn't introduce the Arabic script to the people of the Senegambia region when they settled there. Wolof was first written in Arabic (a form of) when Islam was spread in West Africa. I was asking why did the Wolof and other surrounding tribes didn't practice Islam or Arabic writing before the spread of Islam if the influence of the Fulani people were amongst them.

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I really can't understand why it's difficult that imagine that the Fulani, being far away from Arabia, lost their language and developed a new one. It happens and has always happened over the years. That's why there are so many different languages. Right? Read this story about how the Fulani language was created and then click on the links and read the articles:

"Like most African peoples, the Fulani cherish a myth or legend about their origins which has survived in a number of similar, though not identical, forms. One version describes the marriage of a Moslem Arab, who is usually identified as Ukuba, to a woman of the Sudan called Bajjo Mangu. One day the mother goes to the well and leaves her youngest child in the care of one of its brothers. On her return she overhears the brother comforting the child in a strange language. She tells her husband who predicts that this is a sign that the child will be the founder of a new people who will not speak Arabic but will nevertheless be the saviours of Islam"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3662928.stm

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/07/do_we_have_all_the_tools_to_re.php

http://books.google.com/books?id=U4Kqamb3k9UC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=can+children+create+language&source=bl&ots=VguJpgqgg0&sig=EJqV0w0TOgM-LidV85sZJNpqYnU&hl=en&ei=5jC2S6K9Ds3W4gbq6bH ZDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCThG#v=onepage&q=can%20children%20create%20language&f=false

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Why are you trying to confuse people? I was honestly looking for answers from you but, I see I'm not getting anywhere.

You keep saying, "I don't understand what you mean."

Nevermind.

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
The ones you speak of in your book I read.

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Which original Arabs didn't speak Arabic?

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

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Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

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I don't understand what you mean. Which original Arabs in Arabia did I mention not speaking Arabic?

---

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:
Sure they did. According to the bible We are all descendants of ADAM AND EVE. Not simply Ham, SHem and Japheth. What about Cain and Abel? What about Cain who killed his brother then when off to live SOMEWHERE ELSE and is the patriarch of OWN PEOPLES? Where do the WIVES of Ham, SHem and Japheth come from? How do you know those separate WIVES weren't just leading their husbands BACK to their RESPECTIVE HOMELAND after the FLOOD? This story taken literally leaves little doubt that these populations were ALREADY MIXED. Maybe I am missing something and Ham, Shem and Japheth were married to THEIR SISTERS but i didnt think that was the case, they could have gotten their wives from ANY prospective "Nation" or "Group of peoples."

---

Those tribes didn't exist because there weren't any tribes or nations before the flood. Sure people existed but everyone was ONE and it was only Shem, Ham, Japheth, Noah and their wives that enter the ark before the flood and left the ark after the flood. There weren't nations and tongues before the flood. God made nations and tongues after the flood. Those tribes didn't exist. They existed after the tower of Babel. One nation of Shem was born AFTER the world was divided...It is PELEG and his descendants. That nation didn't even exist during the tower of Babel. What make you think that Shem, Ham, and Jaspeth were married to their sisters? Where do that come from. What homeland are you speaking about.

---

Cain was banished and became a WANDERER - he had the "mark" placed upon him so WHEREVER HE WANDERED (meaning different nations or people) they would not kill him UNTIL HE HAD "SEVEN GENERATIONS of offspring." Cain married his SISTER and started the FIRST CITY and also bore a children. What is the definition of CITY if it doesn't have multiple inhabitants? ---Here goes the "Tribe of Cain" right there.

Where did Cain wander to? There is NO TELLING how far he wandered. Now since there is no indication that the Wives of ham, Shem and Japheth were their sisters we cannot say for a fact that they came from the same town. IN FACT it is possible that they could be from one of the places that Cain wandered to, they could even be from the OFFSPRING OF CAIN!

That is the point. There is no reason to believe that these populations were not already differentiated. We cannot say for sure, So dont speak like its so "matter of fact"

---

Honestly, I have the slightest clue what you are talking about. There weren't any of those tribes before the flood. There is no evidence that Cain married his sister (he could have). The mark was placed upon Cain so he wouldn't be killed. I don't know what this seven generations you are talking about. I already told you that people existed before the flood but tribes and nations from the three brothers Ham, Shem, and Jaspheth didn't exist before the flood because man was all ONE with language. Of course families of nations existed but separation in culture and language didn't. It was only Noah, Shem, Ham, Jaspheth, and their wives that entered the ark and it was only those that left the ark. Everyone else either was dead before the flood, didn't exist, or was killed by the flood.

---

You have no idea what I am talking about because you are only giving surface answers and you have not really studied the text. You are a wanna be bible thumper.

In fact the story of the Watchers is even in the "regular" bible. You know the angels that come and take wives and spawn the half angel/half human "Nephilim"? You dont KNOW this story?

Read Genesis 4:16-17 and research the "Land of Nod", the location where Cain "met" his wife. Where is Nod?

Read all the books in the dead sea scrolls and get back to me....I know more about your religion than you do.
 

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Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
 
Awlaad if those of Ad, Thamud, Qahtani, and Adnani are from Saudi Arabia then how would that associate with the Himyar, Sabeans, and Hadramouti they have always been non arabs.

When prophet Muhammed sent the letter to the Julandi brothers of Yemen who were two brother kings of Yemen during Muhammeds life they sent him a letter back claiming that They didnt need a prophet and the julandi brothers claimed non arab ancestry.

Most people forget that outside of Mecca and Medina the oldest Arabic,Islamic community was in Ethiopia Worku,Wollo those of Jafaar and the first followers of Muhammed who stayed and lived in Abyssinia even arab scholars documented that Obaida even stayed and married a abyssinian and converted to Coptic. It was also said that the Najashi of abyssinia gave a bride to Muhammed named Um Habiba.

I would like to ask u Awlaad the Islamic Arabs feel upon lands that were inhabited by non arabs how does that make more Arabs. All the advancement that happened during the Islamic takeover was not done by arabs meaning alqami,geomotry,the number zero was the accomplishments of non arabs who were under islamic rule
 

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Posted by Doctoris Scientia (Member # 17454) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctoris Scientia:

quote:

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Doctoris Scientia you keep saying that you are from Mali like it means something. All it means is that you are a Malian who knows nothing about the history of Mali. You seem to have a personal problem with Arabs. What's your problem with Arabs if you don't mind my asking. Also, are you a Muslim? Why are you sitting here misleading people who know no better by saying things about Mali that you know are not true? You say that there are no Arabs in Mali. Do you really believe that? What about these Malian Arabs:

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=51377

ARE YOU REALLY FROM MALI???

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I know the history of my people and my country.. it means everything, I've actually come in contact with the various people who inhabit Mali and surrounding countries, you don't. You simply base theories and claims on myths, myths that all seem to trace back to the Islamic era...cough. I've yet to here Malians describe themselves as Arab or of Arab ancestry. Ask any Tuareg, ask any Mande, ask any Fulani... we are all AFRICANS.

You wan't me to tellyou the truth, I really don't care for Arabs. Other then Islam, Arabs fucked up mush of Africa... on the web they claim linkage with Africans, a false brotherhood... but in reality, there's nothing brotherly about our, Africans, relationship with Arabs.

I've never seen or heard of any ethnic Malian Arabs.

Funny, how your article is the only web source in regard to Malian "Arabs".

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=malian+arabs&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=ca6b5a4f84435186

Some articles falsely assume that the various northern Saharan tribes are rather indeed "Arab", but in reality thats pure utter nonsence. Those tribesw belong to various Tuareg and Moorish clans.

Moors

http://news.abidjan.net/photos/photos/MAURITANIE1.jpg
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/berbers_2.jpg
http://wuestenschiff.de/phpbb/userpix/2758_BildQQ_002_2.jpg

Or in some cases they may be refering to western Baggara tribes, who moved west via Chad. These people arn't real Arabs, they're Arabnized Africans.

Malis view of these Chadian Baggara Arabs is similar to that of Niger... DEPORTATION, LOL

"Diffa Arabs (also known as Mahamid Arabs) is the Nigerien name given to Afro-Arab nomadic tribespeople living in eastern Niger, mostly in the Diffa Region. Numbering no more than 150,000 and accounting for less than %1.5 of the Niger's population, the Diffa Arabs are in fact the western most dispersion of Arabic speaking Sudanese nomads, primarily drawn from the Mahamid sub clan of Sudan and Chad."

"In October 2006, Niger announced that it would deport the Arabs living in the Diffa region of eastern Niger to Chad. This population numbered about 150,000. While the government was rounding up Arabs in preparation for the deportation, two girls died, reportedly after fleeing government forces, and three women suffered miscarriages. Niger's government eventually suspended a controversial decision to deport Arabs. Arab Nigeriens protested that they were legal citizens of Niger, with no other home to return to, and that the Military of Niger had seized their livestock, their only means of livelihood."

Not only the government, other peoples what them out also, my people the Tuareg included!!

"Many in the Diffa Arab community fought against 1990s Tuareg rebellion, and in recent years, have come into increased conflict with Hausa, Kanuri, and Tuareg communities. News reports quote Nigerien officials during the 2001 census reporting that Arab communities were in constant conflict with their neighbors over resources, were armed, and that "A relative unanimity prevails among the population who want them to leave the area"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!

Mali population

Ethnic groups: Mande 50% (Bambara, Malinke, Soninke), Peul 17%, Voltaic 12%, Songhai 6%, Tuareg and Moor 10%, other 5%

Niger population

Ethnic groups

Hausa 56%, Djerma 22%, Tuareg 8.5%, Fulani 8%, Beri (Kanouri) 4.3%, (Arabnized Baggara, Toubou and Gourmantche) 1.2%, and about 10,000 French expatriates

Also, of note..

West African Arabnized Africans only entered the region in the 1800s..

"The Nigerien Arab populations include groups drawn from the Shoa or Baggara Arabs, the first clans of whom are believed to have arrived in what is now Niger sometime in the 19th century. Small groups of the Ouled Sliman, overrunning the Kanem Empire, filtered into the area between the late 19th century and 1923, joining with those Shoa pastoralists who were already centered in Tintouma area. In the 1950s a small number of Kanem-Chadian Arabs moved into the area, but the population remained small. In the mid 70s there were only around 4000 nomadic Arabs in eastern Niger. But following the 1974 Sahelian Drought a much large population of Sudan Arab clans began to move into Niger, followed by others fleeing the civil war and the Chadian-Libyan conflict in the 1980s, settling near Diffa."

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I ask you again: ARE YOU REALLY FROM MALI? [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:
In the North, the Songhaï are found in both Gao and Timbuktu and in villages along the Niger River between the two. The Tuareg or Tamasheks are also found in Gao, Timbuktu, Kidal and all of the Sahara Desert regions of northern Mali. Arabs and Daoussahaq's are also found in this region. These groups all have their own distinct languages, although they have intermingled heavily over time and commonly speak each other's languages as well as their own.

http://www.visitgaomali.com/VGM_LearnaboutMali_English.htm

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quote:

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Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Awlaadberry
First of all, who mentioned Kush first?

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You, you said:

''Anyone with eyes and a brain to go with them can see that Arabia is closer to Abyssinia and the "Land of Kush" than "West Africa" is''.

quote:

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---

Here I was just speaking about the geopgraphic location which is the area of Nubia. I was just speaking about a geographic like Abyssinia.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AswaniAswad:
Awlaad if those of Ad, Thamud, Qahtani, and Adnani are from Saudi Arabia then how would that associate with the Himyar, Sabeans, and Hadramouti they have always been non arabs.

When prophet Muhammed sent the letter to the Julandi brothers of Yemen who were two brother kings of Yemen during Muhammeds life they sent him a letter back claiming that They didnt need a prophet and the julandi brothers claimed non arab ancestry.

Most people forget that outside of Mecca and Medina the oldest Arabic,Islamic community was in Ethiopia Worku,Wollo those of Jafaar and the first followers of Muhammed who stayed and lived in Abyssinia even arab scholars documented that Obaida even stayed and married a abyssinian and converted to Coptic. It was also said that the Najashi of abyssinia gave a bride to Muhammed named Um Habiba.

I would like to ask u Awlaad the Islamic Arabs feel upon lands that were inhabited by non arabs how does that make more Arabs. All the advancement that happened during the Islamic takeover was not done by arabs meaning alqami,geomotry,the number zero was the accomplishments of non arabs who were under islamic rule

---

quote:

---

ويلي بلاد سنغي من جهة الغرب، ويلي برك من جهة الشمال بلاد ملي وهو إقليم واسع يعمره السودانيون، ويقال إنهم من بقايا القبط، ويعمرها أيضاً التوروذر الفلاتيون والعرب واليهود والنصارى، وفيها معادن الذهب، وبها مرسى سفن النصارى، من ملكان، يعمرها قبل اليوم سرنكلي ويقال إنهم من الفرس، وهذه بلاد قديمة العمران

---

near the songhai land in a western direction, and the birk land(banu hilal lands:algeria)which faces it by northern direction, is the land of Mali. It is an extensive region inhabited by the black-skinned nations, it is said that they are from the remaining Qibt(egyptian inhabitants). Other inhabitants include the torodhbe fulani, the arabs, the jews, and the christians. In this land is gold and the christian ships that anchor (near the ports)from two kingdoms(portugal and british). the earliest inhabitants of this region were the serinkly(soninke)It is said that they are from persia(elam)and this is the oldest land(in west africa) (translation muhammad bello " infaaq al-maisur fee tarikh bilad takrur " in some africans words sum ole fairy tale made up #@*&.

ibn berry by the way i see X-catly what u were talking about concerning the fulani in muhammad bello's treaty he says that in their books it is written that the torodhbe or turud were wakore speakers (mandinka) before the 4 main branches became the fulani.

and oh yeah p.s. watch out for those made up stories. cant trust black-skinned peoples
maybe uncle ruckus is 100% malian too
 

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Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
 
I don't understand what YOU mean.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Why are you trying to confuse people? I was honestly looking for answers from you but, I see I'm not getting anywhere.

You keep saying, "I don't understand what you mean."

Nevermind.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
The ones you speak of in your book I read.

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Which original Arabs didn't speak Arabic?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
No, they didn't speak the Arabic language. They spoke ancient Semetic languages closely related to the Ethiopian Amharic and Tigrinya languages.

These languages are a remnant of the Sabean Empire (9th century B.C. to 1st century B.C.) and the Axumite Empire (4th century B.C. to 1st century A.D.).

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Did the original "Arabs" speak Arabic?

quote:

---

Originally posted by awlaadberry:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Doctoris Scientia,

You don't get it AT ALL. And like I said before, you'll never get it until that wall in your head is torn down. TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

---

I think I have an idea of what you are speaking of. When you say "Arab" you are speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. Are you saying that Fulani may be part (one of many tribes)of the Arabian stocks that may have come from the Arabian peninsula and may be Cushitic in origin? Some say their origins is North Africa a branch of Egyptians and others argue they have always been in West Africa. If they are indeed a branch of "Egyptians" that came from Northern Africa couldn't that be the confusion of them being "Arab" in origin. People often confuse that of Egyptian branches and that of Cushitic branches. One thing, if they are indeed an Arab nation and came from present day Arabian peninsula why don't they speak Arabic or any Arabian dialect. If they can remember where they from then they should remember how they lost their Arabic tongue. I say that because those of Arab origin spoke Arab or dialects, if not, they spoke any Cushitic or "Shemetic" tongue of the region. The fulani language is not one of them. How did that happen?

---

Yes. When I say Arab, I am speaking of the indigenous, original Arabs that existed in the peninsula. I'm not sure what you mean by Cushitic in origin, but yes, I am saying that the Fulani are descended from one of many tribes of Arabs that came from the Arabian peninsula. The reason that they don't speak Arabic is because they lost their language. It's very common for a people to lose their language and adopt another one. Look at the Omani/Yemeni Arabs of Kenya. They don't speak Arabic. They too lost their language. That doesn't make them non-Arab. Do you understand what I mean?

---

---

Yes, the original Arabs spoke Arabic.

---

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I don't understand what you mean. Which original Arabs in Arabia did I mention not speaking Arabic?

---

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The original Arabs are the people of Aad, Thamud, Qahtan and Adnan. Those are the original Arabs and they spoke Arabic. If you are speaking about some other people, that's a different story. You said that I mentioned in my book original Arabs (in Arabia) that didn't speak Arabic. That's not true. That's why I said I don't understand what you mean. I can't answer a question that I don't understand. As we say in Arabic: "Understanding the question is half of the response". Anyway, maybe Kalonji can answer your questions better.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by AswaniAswad:
ok awlaad i get it know so u are claiming that the arabs of old the ad and thamud of the quran are related to those of Himyar and Saba

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quote:

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Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
so its final. the undisputed heavyhead winner and top flop is doctor dementia. it is agreed that there are no arabs in mali and that africans were forced to learn arabic and ride camels and fly magic carpets because like most of those on the toby methodology black-skinned populations never existed outside of the continent called africa Y?and always were pushed back, beat up, put down, or forced to adopt ways. thats pretty clear.

quote:

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ويلي بلاد سنغي من جهة الغرب، ويلي برك من جهة الشمال بلاد ملي وهو إقليم واسع يعمره السودانيون، ويقال إنهم من بقايا القبط، ويعمرها أيضاً التوروذر الفلاتيون والعرب واليهود والنصارى، وفيها معادن الذهب، وبها مرسى سفن النصارى، من ملكان، يعمرها قبل اليوم سرنكلي ويقال إنهم من الفرس، وهذه بلاد قديمة العمران

---

near the songhai land in a western direction, and the birk land(banu hilal lands:algeria)which faces it by northern direction, is the land of Mali. It is an extensive region inhabited by the black-skinned nations, it is said that they are from the remaining Qibt(egyptian inhabitants). Other inhabitants include the torodhbe fulani, the arabs, the jews, and the christians. In this land is gold and the christian ships that anchor (near the ports)from two kingdoms(portugal and british). the earliest inhabitants of this region were the serinkly(soninke)It is said that they are from persia(elam)and this is the oldest land(in west africa) (translation muhammad bello " infaaq al-maisur fee tarikh bilad takrur " in some africans words sum ole fairy tale made up #@*&.

ibn berry by the way i see X-catly what u were talking about concerning the fulani in muhammad bello's treaty he says that in their books it is written that the torodhbe or turud were wakore speakers (mandinka) before the 4 main branches became the fulani.

and oh yeah p.s. watch out for those made up stories. cant trust black-skinned peoples
maybe uncle ruckus is 100% malian too

---

Yeah. It's like they are saying that the people are so ignorant that they don't know anything about their origin - they just follow silly myths. It's like they are saying that they aren't intelligent enough to know anything about their origin, so they need scientists to help them out. And this person claiming to be Malian saying that there are no Arabs in Mali is utterly ridiculous.
 

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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 
more fake wannabe malian arab news, where do they get this stuff. i'm mad!!

March 8, 2010
Unreleased Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby
Posted By : Matthew LaVoie| Categories: Mali


This past week, in preparing a radio program featuring the final recordings of Ali Farka Toure, I stumbled on an unusual tape that I immediately wanted to share with you all. Have you ever wondered, when listening to Ali Farka Toure's CDs, what it would be like to just hear him play-not trying to nail the perfect studio take, not for a concert audience- but just playing, taking his time and letting the music unfold? I have, and this recording is probably the closest I'll ever come to satisfying my curiosity.

I found this cassette in Bamako, back in the summer of 2003. I was in Mali for a few weeks and was staying in a hotel that was a couple of miles south of the city center. In the early evenings, after my working day was done, I would unwind with long walks through the neighborhood. On my second evening, soon after sunset, I walked through a bustling market and was attracted by a beautiful kamelen ngoni recording. I soon located the source of the music; a small market stall attended by a man in his early twenties who was standing between two rows of wooden cabinets, each containing dozens of drawers. As we spoke, and I asked about different styles of music, the young man pulled open drawer after drawer, laying out cassettes, each one more interesting than the next. The young man explained to me, as the music played, that his father had been a Radio Mali engineer for many years, and had collected, from a variety of sources, thousands of rare recordings. For a few dollars a cassette, he said, he could duplicate any of these recordings for me.

I had a dilemma. I was leaving Bamako in a few days and had already bought a few hundred cassettes at the Dabanani market in downtown Bamako. How many more cassettes could I fit into my luggage and more importantly how many cassettes could the young man duplicate for me in three days? He was confident he could get one hundred titles duplicated. I was dubious, but desperate enough to take a chance. Over the next three hours, of listening to fifteen seconds from hundreds of different titles, we selected a hundred cassettes that he would copy for me. I paid half up front, and we agreed on a time that Friday when I could swing by to collect my recordings. When I showed up on Friday I was thrilled to find a stack of ten cardboard boxes, each neatly labeled and wrapped for me. Over the last five years I have taken my time going through these recordings and have yet to be disappointed.

The cassette in this post features Ali Farka Toure accompanying the 'Nightingale of Tomboctou', Khaira Arby. This is a recording of an intimate evening of music, made back in the mid 1980s. Ali Farka Toure and Khaira Arby were invited, by Moulaye Haidara, the then governor of the S岢gou region (he served between 1983 and and 1987), to play, for his family and a small group of friends, in the governor's mansion in the city of S岢gou. Most of the songs on this cassette are Khaira's compositions and Ali, for the most part, just kicks back and rocks the guitar.1987), to play, for his family and a small group of friends, in the governor's mansion in the city of S岢gou. Most of the songs on this cassette are Khaira's compositions and Ali, for the most part, just kicks back and rocks the guitar.
Khaira Arby was born on September 21, 1959, in the Abaradjou neighborhood of Tomboctou, to a Berabiche father and a Tamachek mother. The only singer in her family, Khaira started to perform, in 1970, when she was only eleven years old. She made her public debut with a cultural group from Abaradjou, and made such an impression that she was soon recruited by the 'troupe du cercle de Tomboctou'. And later that same year, she was promoted to soloist with 'troupe regionale de Gao', the ensemble with which she appeared at the 1970 biennale; a biannual music festival/competition featuring the best traditional and modern ensembles from throughout Mali.

In 1972, Khaira was recruited by the 'Orchestre de Tomboctou', a modern dance-band, and two years later, in 1974, was selected to represent Gao in Bamako, for the final round of the biennale. Khaira was awarded the third prize for best vocal soloist. Her blossoming music career was cut short, however, in 1976, when her father, frustrated that Khaira had abandoned her studies for music, forbid her from performing in public. Khaira obeyed, quit the 'Orchestre de Tomboctou', stopped performing, and got married.

Seven years later, after her divorce in 1983, Khaira started to get pulled back into music. After leaving her husband, she moved back to Abaradjou, where she was soon asked to manage a neighborhood cultural group. Khaira organized the ensemble and spent several months working, in particular, with a talented young female singer. On the evening of the group's debut performance, an unexpected turn of events pushed Khaira back in front of the public. Several hours before the group was to take the stage, her young prot岢g岢 told her that her father would not let her sing in front of an audience. Faced with no other choice, Khaira was forced to take the stage; this fateful concert kicked off the second leg of Khaira's career.

In 1990, after working for a time in Bamako with Harouna Barry and the 'Orchestre Badema Nationale', Khaira released her first cassette 'Moulaye'. Three years later, she released 'Hala', recorded with her own group, and then in 2002, released her masterpiece 'Ya Rassoul', which in my opinion is one of the best Malian cassettes of the last decade. Khaira, who still lives in Tomboctou, has been very busy over the last few months. In early February, she was invited to Bamako's Studio Bogolan to record three tracks with the American group 'Sway Machinery', and later in the month was back in the same studio, this time with her own group from Tomboctou, laying down the tracks for her upcoming international debut. And, according to her producer, Khaira's North American fans can look forward to the 'Nightingale of Tomboctou' making her US debut sometime in the fall of 2010.
upon all of you, this evening we are in Sanda, a neighborhood of Segou-Sikoro, the capital of the 333 Balanzans (a Balanzan is a Shea tree). Thanks to all of you who had a role in inviting us here to perform this evening. This is a memorable event for us, and we are blessed to be among so many renowned and honorable people'. And with that Ali hands things over to Khaira.

Ali Farka Toure 'introduction'

This first song is called 'Yacoumana'; it is a song that is frequently performed at 'Arab' weddings in Tombouctou. (A brief aside on the term 'Arab' in the Malian context: Arab refers to nomadic tribes in the Azawad, or Malian North who speak HASSANIYA the language spoken by the Arabo/Berber population of Mauritania. These Arabs or Berabiches are distinct from the 'Tuareg/Kel Tamashek' nomads of Berber origin, with whom the Malian Arabs nonetheless share many customs). Khaira sings, in her native 'Arabic', of the glories and beauty of Mali. This is the song that Khaira's young prot岢g岢 was supposed to sing on that fateful night in Abaradjou, back in 1983.

Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby 'Yacoumana'

Ali Farka Toure starts this song off, before handing the vocals back to Khaira. This is another classic from the Malian Arab repertoire. It is a praise song called 'Yalali', which the singers use to extol the virtues and ancestry of the patrons who have invited them to perform.


Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby 'Yalali'

Next up is a song in the Sonrai language that calls on all Malians to come together, and work for the glory of their country. 'Without national unity', she sings, 'nothing is possible. We are all brothers and sisters, and we must come together and fight for Mali's future'.

Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby 'Unit岢 Nationale'

One of Khaira's most famous songs is 'Aigna', or 'My Mother'. Composed shortly after her mother passed away, Khaira sings, 'there is nothing eternal in this world. Look behind and you will see that everyone passes away sooner or later'. This song, which Khaira has rerecorded for her forthcoming CD, is the one that gave her the opportunity to represent the Gao region in Bamako, at the 1974 Biennale.

Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby 'Aigna'

This final track is called 'An Dunya', or 'The World', and it was composed by Ibrahim Hamma Dicko from the town of Gao, in Northeast Mali. Khaira sings, 'you see how the world is changing. Life is strange. Slow down and look at all that we have left behind. Think about what we are losing. The world is strange'.

Ali Farka Toure & Khaira Arby 'An Dunya'

This post is based on an interview with Khaira Arby. Many thanks to Moulaye Haidara of Radio Aadar Koima, in Gao, for his help with translations, and to Boris for the beautiful picture and details on Khaira's upcoming album and US tour.
khaira and her cousin ali farke tour
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Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
 
dont be fooled yall these r forced africans to be arabs in west africa.
 

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Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 
My only question to Doctoris Scientia is this: Are you purposely lying to and misleading these people at Egypt Search or do you really not know that there are Arabs in Mali???
 

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Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^^
Who cares that there are Arabs in Mali, we all know that they migrated to Mali becuase of the influence of Islam there, what we or at least I want to know is how the Fulani who you claim are Arabs Migrated to West Africa, what archeological, written, artifacts etc do you have to present this idea, which I have seen you present none other than a tale of some Arab marrying a Fulani.
 

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Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
^^^^
Who cares that there are Arabs in Mali, we all know that they migrated to Mali becuase of the influence of Islam there, what we or at least I want to know is how the Fulani who you claim are Arabs Migrated to West Africa, what archeological, written, artifacts etc do you have to present this idea, which I have seen you present none other than a tale of some Arab marrying a Fulani.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
^^^^
Who cares that there are Arabs in Mali, we all know that they migrated to Mali becuase of the influence of Islam there, what we or at least I want to know is how the Fulani who you claim are Arabs Migrated to West Africa, what archeological, written, artifacts etc do you have to present this idea, which I have seen you present none other than a tale of some Arab marrying a Fulani.

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quote:

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Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
so its final. the undisputed heavyhead winner and top flop is doctor dementia. it is agreed that there are no arabs in mali and that africans were forced to learn arabic and ride camels and fly magic carpets because like most of those on the toby methodology black-skinned populations never existed outside of the continent called africa Y?and always were pushed back, beat up, put down, or forced to adopt ways. thats pretty clear.

quote:

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ويلي بلاد سنغي من جهة الغرب، ويلي برك من جهة الشمال بلاد ملي وهو إقليم واسع يعمره السودانيون، ويقال إنهم من بقايا القبط، ويعمرها أيضاً التوروذر الفلاتيون والعرب واليهود والنصارى، وفيها معادن الذهب، وبها مرسى سفن النصارى، من ملكان، يعمرها قبل اليوم سرنكلي ويقال إنهم من الفرس، وهذه بلاد قديمة العمران

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near the songhai land in a western direction, and the birk land(banu hilal lands:algeria)which faces it by northern direction, is the land of Mali. It is an extensive region inhabited by the black-skinned nations, it is said that they are from the remaining Qibt(egyptian inhabitants). Other inhabitants include the torodhbe fulani, the arabs, the jews, and the christians. In this land is gold and the christian ships that anchor (near the ports)from two kingdoms(portugal and british). the earliest inhabitants of this region were the serinkly(soninke)It is said that they are from persia(elam)and this is the oldest land(in west africa) (translation muhammad bello " infaaq al-maisur fee tarikh bilad takrur " in some africans words sum ole fairy tale made up #@*&.

ibn berry by the way i see X-catly what u were talking about concerning the fulani in muhammad bello's treaty he says that in their books it is written that the torodhbe or turud were wakore speakers (mandinka) before the 4 main branches became the fulani.

and oh yeah p.s. watch out for those made up stories. cant trust black-skinned peoples
maybe uncle ruckus is 100% malian too

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