...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Egyptology » How did the Sahel contribute to the peopling of West Africa and other parts of Africa

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: How did the Sahel contribute to the peopling of West Africa and other parts of Africa
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
 -


The map above is from the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration and shows the Sahel stretching across Africa. Questions:

--How did the Sahel contribute to the peopling of West Africa?

--What are some of the DNA profiles of the peoples of the Sahel and what are those peoples?

--What studies are there of the DNA of the Sahelian region/

--What other parts of Africa did the Sahel contribute to in terms of peopling and culture?

--What is the relationship between the Sahel and the Sahara?

--Could the Sahel have played a part in the peopling of the Nile Valley?

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Doug M
Member
Member # 7650

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Doug M     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The strip of land you are referring to is far too narrow to be the basis of *ANY* population in Africa. It is better understood as a climactic zone that has expanded and contracted over time. In addition, defining the exact type of environmental conditions that can be defined as Sahelian would also help as well. This is because the questions you asked are better understood in the context of environmental changes and conditions that would have affected populations and their movements, but are not the BASIS of those populations.

Therefore, yes the Sahel or more correctly the pattern and distribution of Acacia grassland savanna across northern Africa has affected population movements. But again this has to be understood as a long term process of environmental change that included the deserts of North Africa, which would have funelled populations into the remaining areas suitable for habitation.

Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is the corridor through which the Sudanese Neolithic
industry spread from its origins in Sudan to the Lake Tschad
region and on into the Sahara. (Terms are time relative for
location purposes. Of course then, there was no Sahel -- shore
of the desert -- since there was no Sahara -- great desert.

This below is a poor map which is somewhat incorrect
as it leaves out the Kenya Capsian for one but it gives
a decent enough general idea.

LEGEND
code:
Orange:       Caridial and Impressoceramics 
Brown: Neolithic in Capsian tradition
Light Green: Sahara-Sudan cultures (Khartoum culture, Shaheinab culture)
Red: Neolithic of the Niger
Purple: Levant - Old Neolithic (Fayum Neolithic, Merimde)
Green: Upper Egyptian Neolithic (Badari)

 -


quote:
Originally posted by zarahan:
 -


The map above ... shows the Sahel stretching across Africa. Questions:

--What other parts of Africa did the Sahel contribute to in terms of peopling and culture?

--What is the relationship between the Sahel and the Sahara?



Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The southernmost route on the map below probably goes back
at least to the Sudan Neolithic and last Green Sahara phases.

 -

The eastern terminals Dongola/Sennar to Darfur and
Kordofan and then on to Lake Tschad and from there
most likely up to Bilma for the track to the Niger's
Bend and terminating at the Senegal may have some
relation to the spread of the Niger-Kordofanian super
phylum.

That is the "Sahel Route" established from times
pre-historic and still in use today. It would've
been used by Classical African Civilization folk
to travel for trade or migration to West Africa.

 -

The above is a slightly simpler map that shows the southern route a little clearer.


The part of this route as far as Lake Tschad may also
have to do with the two Afrisan phyla Chadic and
Tamazight and maybe the Nilo-Saharan super phyum.

 -
 -

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To get an idea of the peopling of western Africa, one might want to first keep up with findings in archaeology, geological fluctuations through time, and population genetics. In the following, all three entities had been put to use, to make a case(s) of the peopling of western Africa:

Link 1: P2 Clades: The Arrival of E3a and E3b Haplogroups

Link 2: NRY Haplogroup E3a: Proposing its Origins through a Multidisciplinary lens

Link 3: Correlating Possible mtDNA Markers with The Journey of The Ancestors Of Contemporary E3a-bearers To West Africa

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Doug, Takuri, Explorer. I will check out this data you all present, including the climatic angle. I see much about the Sahara, but relatively little about the Sahel.

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bob_01
Member
Member # 15687

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bob_01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^ The Sahelian climate range would have to be defined. I don't think, like Doug, that the present corridor represents the actual population source.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Could be. I remember someone on the forum referring
to the 'Sahelian" roots of African Americans but
can't find the thread - and wonder if indeed
"Sahelian roots" is the case.

Question for the experts:
what is the percent breakdown of DNA in Egypt?

Overall, how much Haplogroup "E" versus everything else?

And what is the everything else?

The answer is probably buried somewhere among the huge number of studies but just looking for a straightforward breakdown. Isn't E predominant OVERALL in Egypt?

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It is necessary to understand, and as I take into consideration in the links presented above, that the Sahel [as a semi-desert belt] has also correspondingly shifted with the Saharan desert through the historic geological changes. As the Sahara [as a desert] retracted, so did the boundaries of the Sahel shift northward, and conversely, during the time frames when the Saharan desert was at the epitome of its expansion [the Ogolian period comes to mind, for example], so did the boundaries of the Sahel shift southward.

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bob_01
Member
Member # 15687

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bob_01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan:
Could be. I remember someone on the forum referring
to the 'Sahelian" roots of African Americans but
can't find the thread - and wonder if indeed
"Sahelian roots" is the case.


Question for the experts:
what is the percent breakdown of DNA in Egypt?

Overall, how much Haplogroup "E" versus everything else?

And what is the everything else?

The answer is probably buried somewhere among the huge number of studies but just looking for a straightforward breakdown. Isn't E predominant OVERALL in Egypt?

I think that could be argued. The Haplogroup E3a developed within Sahel, or within the Sudanese Belt. That is why E3a is very common amongst Upper Egyptians, for instance.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
argyle104
Member
Member # 14634

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for argyle104     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zarahan wrote:
quote:
Could be. I remember someone on the forum referring
to the 'Sahelian" roots of African Americans but
can't find the thread - and wonder if indeed
"Sahelian roots" is the case.

We all know that you don't have the guts or the brains to answer the following question, but I will ask anyway just to prove that you are a mindless clown.


Why would it not be the case? Why would African Americans not have roots from the sahel?


Now prove that you are not here just to spout off pseudoscience and its companion that always seems to go hand in hand with it, pseudohistory.


We're waiting zarahan.

Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^^ lol... strained attempts at "debate" ....

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
argyle104
Member
Member # 14634

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for argyle104     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zarahan wrote:
-----------------------
^^ lol... strained attempts at "debate" ....
-----------------------


Notice how zarahan, could not counter any of the valid points made. His response has no substance and is nothing more than a strawman attempt to scurry away from the scholarly beatdown he knows he is about to receive.


It won't work. Because folks now see that outside of copying and pasting hack jobs, as well as mindlessly repeating some eurocentrist's "study", you offer nothing with regards to intellect or scholarship to defend your wild emotionally driven opinions.

Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is something showing the role of the Sahel in
the transfer of people, language, and culture from
the Middle Nile to the Lake Tschad Basin based on

Roger Blench
The Westward Wanderings of Cushitic Pastoralists:
Explorations in the Prehistory of Central Africa

in
Baroin C, Boutrais J, (eds)
L'homme et L'animal dans le Bassin du Lac Tchad
Paris: 1999 39:80

A - The "Inter-Saharan Hypothesis" (p.70)

1). Tentative Historical Implications

* Cushitic and Chadic share a lexicon of common
domestic animal names, numerals, and body parts.
This puts them in a special relationship vis a
vis Egyptian-Semitic-Tamazight (Ehrets "North
Afroasiatic -- 1995). The link results from
Cushitics migrating westward. Cattle, goats,
sheep and possibly donkeys, dogs, pigs, and
guinea-fowl accompanied the migrants.

* The distance presents no problem since gradual
migration of pastoralists over great expanses is
evidenced by the Fulani spreading from Senegal
to Sudan this past millenia. Also, Shuwa "Arabs"
made a Nile Valley to Lake Tschad migration.
* Nilo-Saharan speakers eliminated the Chadic
languages once spoken in a strip across Sudan.
A few Chadic lects, like Kujarke, linger in the
west of Sudan.

2). Archaeological Correlations

* The so-called Leiterband pottery tradition is
thought to spring from the Khartoum Neolithic.
Sites having the pottery found in the Eastern
Sahara at the Wadi Howar between the Nile
Valley and Eastern Chad also have pits burying
complete cattle skeletons. Fish bones indicate
a diet similar todays Nilotics like the Dinka
combining pastoralism with fishing.

* The Wadi Howar's west end leads to the Ennedi
and Biltine region of mountains. There is a
pass between the two which would have served
the wandering pastoralists. Other side the pass
another wadi takes up, the Wadi Hawach, which
is followed by more and littler wadis clear to
Lake Tschad.

* Rather than a planned timely migration the
scenario is rather one of westward seeping
transhumance maybe beginning in Ethiopia
between 4000 and 3000 BCE. The Khartoum
Neolithic began roughly 3700 BCE and the
spread along the Wadi Howar about 2000 BCE.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Including a relevant Wadi Huwar timeline and
correlating the last post to the general Lower Nile scene.

 -

When the unidirectional expanse started in Ethiopia,
central Sudan was experiencing the shift from Early
Khartoum to the Khartoum Neolithic, northern Sudan
was in its neolithic, and far north Sudan's mature
Abkien and nascient TaSeti were underway while the
Naqada initiated in Upper Egypt.

The Khartoum Neolithic corresponds to the neolithic
/pre-Kerma cusp, the end of the Abkien and the beginning
of TaSeti (A group) and Naqada II.

As the Wadi Howar is "navigated" Kerma is in its middle
stage, Wawat (C group) enters its Classic period and
Upper Egypt is transiting from the 1st Intermediate to
the Middle Kingdom.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Djehuti
Member
Member # 6698

Rate Member
Icon 14 posted      Profile for Djehuti     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But as others have pointed out, it shouldn't be forgotten that the Sahara did not always exist and North Africa up to the Mediterranean coasts was green and fertile savannah. That being the case, there was no 'sahel' region to speak of? Was there not??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^During the Ogolian period, the Sahara was live and well, which started anywhere from about 22 to 19 ky ago. During this time, the Sahel shifted southward than it now is. It was near the turn of this period, in the Upper Paleolithic, that major repopulation events gained momentum in western Africa. Again, I went through the most probable timelines of said events both here on ES and the link cited above.

Thereafter, starting around 12ky ago or so, things began to turn around, in terms of precipitation in the previously extreme arid areas of the Sahara, with the area getting wetter. By the time we get to the period between 8ky and 7ky ago, the Sahara essentially dissipates as an extreme desert, morphing into what has been called the "Green Sahara" or "Wet Sahara". During this period, the Sahel essentially disappears, before things start to go back to extreme aridity and semi-aridity respectively.

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So it seems the wet~green Sahara might be a cycle thing? say about every 10~15kyrs...just speculating.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To tell truth, according to research material out there, the Saharan desert had been around for quite a long time, at least by around 150ky ago, even though its extent had undergone various alterations through the ages. Since this time, that "green Saharan" phase mentioned above -- ca. early Holocene era, is just about the ONLY time one comes across such state of affairs. So in that scheme of things, the "green Sahara" appears to be a fairly rare entity, and hence, not much of a "cyclic" feel to it at this point. But who knows what might happen down the road.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my posts I'm using Sahel as the geographic expanse
delineated in the parent post. At various points in
time that area was savannah or desert and not always
a sahel (desert shore).

In my posts, anywhere in time, Sahel is the region from
Atlantic Ocean to Red Sea roughly between certain degrees
of latitude (between ~15°N and ~19°N).

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
But as others have pointed out, it shouldn't be forgotten that the Sahara did not always exist and North Africa up to the Mediterranean coasts was green and fertile savannah. That being the case, there was no 'sahel' region to speak of? Was there not??


Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I tried to get information from QUESTIA giving the
complete major dry and wet phases including minor
arid and humid phases within the major ones but was
locked out by the site.

I found variance in chronology for Saharan climate
phases but am offering the below from Robert Stewart's
Environmental Science in the 21st Century as a rough guide.

quote:
History of Desertification in Sahara and Sahel

Climate of the Sahel and the Sahara has changed greatly over the past 11,000 years since the end of the last ice age. The Sahara has expanded and contracted, changing the course of civilizations.

. . . .

The changing climate first attracted people to the Sahara as rainfall increased abruptly throughout the region beginning about 10,500 years ago (8,500 BC) at the end of the Younger Dryas.

Then increasing drought drove them southward into the modern Sahel as the rains became less frequent beginning about 7,200 years ago.

By 5,500 years ago (3,500 BC) the Sahara had returned to full desert conditions. It appears that many who left the Sahara settled in the Nile valley about 5,500 years ago, setting the stage for the First Dynasty starting with the reign of King Narmer in 3,000 BC (5,000 years ago).

quote:

(A) During the Last Glacial Maximum and the terminal Pleistocene (20,000 to 8500 BC), the Saharan desert was void of any settlement outside of the Nile valley and extended about 400 km farther south than it does today.

(B) With the abrupt arrival of monsoon rains at 8500 BC, the hyper-arid desert was replaced by savannah-like environments and swiftly inhabited by prehistoric settlers.

During the early Holocene humid optimum, the southern Sahara and the Nile valley apparently were too moist and hazardous for appreciable human occupation.

(C) After 7000 BC, human settlement became well established all over the Eastern Sahara, fostering the development of cattle pastoralism.

(D) Retreating monsoon rains caused the onset of desiccation of the Egyptian Sahara at 5300 BC Prehistoric populations were forced to the Nile valley or ecological refuges and forced to exodus into the Sudanese Sahara where rainfall and surface water were still sufficient.

The return of full desert conditions all over Egypt at about 3500 BC coincided with the initial stages of pharaonic civilization in the Nile valley.
From Kuper and Kröpelin (2006).

Since 3,000 BC the Sahel has had periods of more rain followed by periods of drought at intervals of 1,500 ± 500 years.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

I found variance in chronology for Saharan climate
phases but am offering the below from Robert Stewart's
Environmental Science in the 21st Century as a rough guide.

quote:
History of Desertification in Sahara and Sahel

Climate of the Sahel and the Sahara has changed greatly over the past 11,000 years since the end of the last ice age. The Sahara has expanded and contracted, changing the course of civilizations.

. . . .

The changing climate first attracted people to the Sahara as rainfall increased abruptly throughout the region beginning about 10,500 years ago (8,500 BC) at the end of the Younger Dryas.

Then increasing drought drove them southward into the modern Sahel as the rains became less frequent beginning about 7,200 years ago.

By 5,500 years ago (3,500 BC) the Sahara had returned to full desert conditions. It appears that many who left the Sahara settled in the Nile valley about 5,500 years ago, setting the stage for the First Dynasty starting with the reign of King Narmer in 3,000 BC (5,000 years ago).

quote:

(A) During the Last Glacial Maximum and the terminal Pleistocene (20,000 to 8500 BC), the Saharan desert was void of any settlement outside of the Nile valley and extended about 400 km farther south than it does today.

(B) With the abrupt arrival of monsoon rains at 8500 BC, the hyper-arid desert was replaced by savannah-like environments and swiftly inhabited by prehistoric settlers.

During the early Holocene humid optimum, the southern Sahara and the Nile valley apparently were too moist and hazardous for appreciable human occupation.

(C) After 7000 BC, human settlement became well established all over the Eastern Sahara, fostering the development of cattle pastoralism.

(D) Retreating monsoon rains caused the onset of desiccation of the Egyptian Sahara at 5300 BC Prehistoric populations were forced to the Nile valley or ecological refuges and forced to exodus into the Sudanese Sahara where rainfall and surface water were still sufficient.

The return of full desert conditions all over Egypt at about 3500 BC coincided with the initial stages of pharaonic civilization in the Nile valley.
From Kuper and Kröpelin (2006).

Since 3,000 BC the Sahel has had periods of more rain followed by periods of drought at intervals of 1,500 ± 500 years.
[/QB]
Good information. It seems then the Sahara was
like a dynamic engine, with changing habitats
and climate patterns that alternatively drew
people in and ejected them out over the millennia.
There is thus a basis for peopling not only of
the Nile valley but affecting West Africa as well further down the line. North Africa too. With all this dynamic movement it calls into question the static notion of "sub Saharan" Africa.

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
True^..I forgot where I got this information from but I read somewhere that the Garamatians success was due to them reversing desert conditions,don't want to get into the political but if true and they could do that 2,500yrs ago... whats stopping us moderns from doing the same?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't remember reading that they REVERSED desert conditions- it was more like they maximized use of irrigation in their territory to keep good agriculture going. This would not have affected the desert regions as a whole, and once the irrigation system went down the land returned to desert. An old story in many parts of the world..

One website backs up your info on irrigation:



Throughout the period of Punic and Greek colonization of the coastal plain, the area known as Fezzan was dominated by the Garamentes, a tribal people who entered the region sometime before 1000 B.C. In the desert they established a powerful kingdom astride the trade route between the western Sudan and the Mediterranean coast. The Garamentes left numerous inscriptions in tifinagh, the ancient Berber form of writing still used by the Tuareg. Beyond these and the observations of Herodotus and other classical writers on their customs and dealings with the coastal settlements, little was known of this extraordinary and mysterious people until the advent of modern archaeological methods.

The Garamentes' political power was limited to a chain of oases about 400 kilometers long in the Wadi Ajal, but from their capital at Germa they controlled the desert caravan trade from Ghadamis south to the Niger River, eastward to Egypt, and west to Mauretania (see Glossary). The Carthaginians employed them as carriers of goods--gold and ivory purchased in exchange for salt--from the western Sudan to their depots on the Mediterranean coast. The Garamentes were also noted as horse-breeders and herders of long-horned cattle. They succeeded in irrigating portions of their arid lands for cultivation by using foggares, vast underground networks of stone-lined water channels. Their wealth and technical skill are also attested to by the remains of their towns, which were built of stone, and more than 50,000 of their pyramidal tombs. Rome sent several punitive expeditions against the Garamentes before concluding a lasting commercial and military alliance with them late in the first century A.D.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-8122.html

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brada-Anansi
Member
Member # 16371

Rate Member
Icon 14 posted      Profile for Brada-Anansi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Zarahan thanks, sorry wrong choice of words but that's the article.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Elijah The Tishbite
Member
Member # 10328

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Elijah The Tishbite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As for possible population relationships........


http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=91489


Relationship of the Sickle Cell Gene to the Ethnic and Geographic Groups Populating the Sudan
Abdelrahim O. Mohammeda, Bekhieta Attallab, Fathya M.K. Bashira, Fatima E. Ahmedc, Ahmed M. El Hassanc, Gafar Ibnaufd, Weiying Jiange, Luigi L. Cavalli-Sforzae, Zein Al Abdin Karrarb, Muntaser E. Ibrahimc

Departments of
aBiochemistry,
bPediatrics, Faculty of Medicine University of Khartoum,
cInstitute of Endemic Diseases, University of Khartoum, and
dFederal Ministry of Health, Khartoum, Sudan;
eDepartment of Genetics, School of Medicine Stanford University, Stanford, Calif., USA


The presence of a geographical pattern in the distribution of the sickle cell gene (S gene) and its association with malaria is well documented. To study the distribution of the S gene among various ethnic and linguistic groups in the Sudan we analyzed a hospital-based sample of 189 sickle cell anemia (SCA) patients who reported to the Khartoum Teaching Hospital between June 1996 and March 2000 and 118 controls with other complaints, against their ethnic and linguistic affiliations and geographic origin. Electrophoresis for hemoglobin S and sickling tests were carried out on all patients and controls as a prerequisite for inclusion. The majority of patients (93.7%) belonged to families of single ethnic descent, indicating the high degree of within-group marriages and thus the higher risk of augmenting the gene. SCA was found to be predominant among the Afro-Asiatic-speaking groups (68.4%) including nomadic groups of Arab and non- Arab descent that migrated to the Sudan in various historical epochs. Those patients clustered in western Sudan (Kordofan and Darfur) from where 73% of all cases originate. The proportion of patients reporting from other geographic areas like the south (3.1%), which is primarily inhabited by Nilo-Saharan-speaking groups (19% of the whole sample) who populated the country in previous times, is disproportionate to their total population in the country (2 = 71.6; p = 0.0001). Analysis of the haplotypes associated with the S gene indicated that the most abundant haplotypes are the Cameroon, Benin, Bantu and Senegal haplotypes, respectively. No relationship was seen between haplotypes and the various hematological parameters in the sub-sample analyzed for such association. These results provide an insight into the distribution of the sickle cell gene in the Sudan, and highlight the strong link of the middle Nile Valley with West Africa through the open plateau of the Sahel and the nomadic cattle herders and also probably the relatively young age of the S gene.

Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
Member
Member # 15400

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
Greening Of The Sahara Desert Triggered Early Human Migrations Out Of Africa

ScienceDaily (Nov. 9, 2009) — A team of scientists from the NIOZ Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research and the University of Bremen (Germany) has determined that a major change in the climate of the Sahara and Sahel region of North Africa facilitated early human migrations from the African continent. The team's findings will be published online in the Nov. 9th installment of Early Edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA. Among the key findings are that the Sahara desert and the Sahel were considerably wetter around 9,000, 50,000 and 120,000 years ago than at present, allowing for the growth of trees instead of grasses.


Dust in marine sediment cores

The researchers studied marine sediments covering nearly 200,000 years collected from the seafloor off the coast of Guinea in West Africa. Strong off-shore winds transport large volumes of dust from the Sahara and Sahel to the study area. Mixed in with the dust are plant leaf waxes, which are blown long distances across the African continent to the Atlantic Ocean, where they were ultimately deposited on the seafloor at about 3 km depth.

Over thousands of years, layers of sediment accumulated on the seafloor, each layer containing evidence of past environmental conditions in Northern Africa. The plant leaf waxes are resistant to degradation and when trapped within layers of sediment, they can be very well-preserved for millions of years.

Vegetation changes in the Sahara

Based on analysis of plant leaf waxes the researchers could determine the relative importance of trees and grasses in the Sahara and Sahel regions. Trees generally require more water to survive than do tropical grasses, and so by analysing the plant leaf waxes to determine if they were produced by trees or grasses, the scientists could examine past precipitation changes in tropical Africa over the last 200,000 years.

During three discrete periods, ca. 120,000-110,000 years, 50,000- 45,000 and 10,000-8,000 years ago, substantially more trees grew in Sahara and the Sahel, indicating significantly wetter conditions than at present. The two oldest periods exactly coincide with times when the earliest humans were migrating out of East Africa to northern Africa, the Middle East, Asia and eventually Europe. At these times, the wetter conditions in central North Africa likely enabled humans to cross this normally inhospitable region, allowing them to migrate into other continents. When climate in the Sahara and Sahel turned dry again, humans were forced out of these areas causing genetic and cultural changes in already inhabited regions such as Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Changes in ocean circulation caused a wetter Sahara

The researchers also looked for the causes of these major climate shifts to much wetter conditions in the Sahara and found that they were indirectly related to an increase in the strength of the major current system, the Atlantic Overturning Circulation (AOC). The researchers could assess the strength of this current by analysing fossilized tiny shells of small animals (benthic foraminifera).When the intensity of the AOC changes, this leads to changes in the chemical composition of the deep water masses, which is then reflected in the shells of benthic foraminifera.

The researchers found that when the AOC weakened, more grasses were present in central North Africa indicating a drier climate. Likely, the weakening of the AOC was caused by increased freshwater input to the high-latitudes, leading to less saline surface waters. This freshwater input also caused surface cooling in these regions, in turn leading to movement of cold air from the high-latitudes to the tropics, and causing drier conditions in central North Africa.

Thus, early human migrations from the African continent were likely triggered by events originating far away in the North Atlantic.

This research project was funded by the Netherlands Organisation for Scientific Research (NWO) and the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft Research Centre/Excellence Cluster "The Ocean in the Earth System"


Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
As for possible population relationships........


http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=91489


Relationship of the Sickle Cell Gene to the Ethnic and Geographic Groups Populating the Sudan
Abdelrahim O. Mohammeda, Bekhieta Attallab, Fathya M.K. Bashira, Fatima E. Ahmedc, Ahmed M. El Hassanc, Gafar Ibnaufd, Weiying Jiange, Luigi L. Cavalli-Sforzae, Zein Al Abdin Karrarb, Muntaser E. Ibrahimc

Departments of
aBiochemistry,
bPediatrics, Faculty of Medicine University of Khartoum,
cInstitute of Endemic Diseases, University of Khartoum, and
dFederal Ministry of Health, Khartoum, Sudan;
eDepartment of Genetics, School of Medicine Stanford University, Stanford, Calif., USA


The presence of a geographical pattern in the distribution of the sickle cell gene (S gene) and its association with malaria is well documented. To study the distribution of the S gene among various ethnic and linguistic groups in the Sudan we analyzed a hospital-based sample of 189 sickle cell anemia (SCA) patients who reported to the Khartoum Teaching Hospital between June 1996 and March 2000 and 118 controls with other complaints, against their ethnic and linguistic affiliations and geographic origin. Electrophoresis for hemoglobin S and sickling tests were carried out on all patients and controls as a prerequisite for inclusion. The majority of patients (93.7%) belonged to families of single ethnic descent, indicating the high degree of within-group marriages and thus the higher risk of augmenting the gene. SCA was found to be predominant among the Afro-Asiatic-speaking groups (68.4%) including nomadic groups of Arab and non- Arab descent that migrated to the Sudan in various historical epochs. Those patients clustered in western Sudan (Kordofan and Darfur) from where 73% of all cases originate. The proportion of patients reporting from other geographic areas like the south (3.1%), which is primarily inhabited by Nilo-Saharan-speaking groups (19% of the whole sample) who populated the country in previous times, is disproportionate to their total population in the country (2 = 71.6; p = 0.0001). Analysis of the haplotypes associated with the S gene indicated that the most abundant haplotypes are the Cameroon, Benin, Bantu and Senegal haplotypes, respectively. No relationship was seen between haplotypes and the various hematological parameters in the sub-sample analyzed for such association. These results provide an insight into the distribution of the sickle cell gene in the Sudan, and highlight the strong link of the middle Nile Valley with West Africa through the open plateau of the Sahel and the nomadic cattle herders and also probably the relatively young age of the S gene.

Good find. Based on the last statement: "These results provide an insight into the distribution of the sickle cell gene in the Sudan, and highlight the strong link of the middle Nile Valley with West Africa through the open plateau of the Sahel and the nomadic cattle herders and also probably the relatively young age of the S gene" it would seem that there was a clear path from West Africa into the Nile valley via the Sahel. This again highlights oft neglected internal African migration that added diversity to various regions.

How do they mean the relatively young age of the S gene?

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
Greening Of The Sahara Desert Triggered Early Human Migrations Out Of Africa

ScienceDaily (Nov. 9, 2009) — A team of scientists from the NIOZ Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research and the University of Bremen (Germany) has determined that a major change in the climate of the Sahara and Sahel region of North Africa facilitated early human migrations from the African continent. The team's findings will be published online in the Nov. 9th installment of Early Edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA. Among the key findings are that the Sahara desert and the Sahel were considerably wetter around 9,000, 50,000 and 120,000 years ago than at present, allowing for the growth of trees instead of grasses.


During three discrete periods, ca. 120,000-110,000 years, 50,000- 45,000 and 10,000-8,000 years ago, substantially more trees grew in Sahara and the Sahel, indicating significantly wetter conditions than at present. The two oldest periods exactly coincide with times when the earliest humans were migrating out of East Africa to northern Africa, the Middle East, Asia and eventually Europe. At these times, the wetter conditions in central North Africa likely enabled humans to cross this normally inhospitable region, allowing them to migrate into other continents. When climate in the Sahara and Sahel turned dry again, humans were forced out of these areas causing genetic and cultural changes in already inhabited regions such as Northern Africa and the Middle East.


Thus, early human migrations from the African continent were likely triggered by events originating far away in the North Atlantic.

This research project was funded by the Netherlands Organisation for Scientific Research (NWO) and the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft Research Centre/Excellence Cluster "The Ocean in the Earth System"


Great data.

" When climate in the Sahara and Sahel turned dry again, humans were forced out of these areas causing genetic and cultural changes in already inhabited regions such as Northern Africa and the Middle East."

It seems here they are talking about multiple waves of migration out of Africa as the Saharan and Sahelian climate reshuffled itself once again? Generally I have only read about internal African migration in relation to the Sahara, but would there be multiple OOA waves as well involved? Some comparatively recent? We hear much about "backflow" as if Africa was some static entity awaiting "backflowing" migrants- although of course such early backflowers looked like Africans to begin with. But the data shows it was anything but static.

But I wonder, could various so-called 'Eurasian" DNA markers have mutated in Africa to begin with and then front-flowed out again as the Sahara reshuffled? In other words the mutation did not take place in Eurasia to backflow later, but took place in Africa first, and then front-flowed out as the Sahara ejected the mutants, who millennia later would be labeled "Eurasian"? Not saying it is so, just wondering about that Saharan pump and multiple migrant waves.

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

Greening Of The Sahara Desert Triggered Early Human Migrations Out Of Africa

Among the key findings are that the Sahara desert and the Sahel were considerably wetter around 9,000, 50,000 and 120,000 years ago than at present, allowing for the growth of trees instead of grasses...


During three discrete periods, ca. 120,000-110,000 years, 50,000- 45,000 and 10,000-8,000 years ago, substantially more trees grew in Sahara and the Sahel, indicating significantly wetter conditions than at present. The two oldest periods exactly coincide with times when the earliest humans were migrating out of East Africa to northern Africa, the Middle East, Asia and eventually Europe...

I question this prospect based on 1)the need for people to vacate because of the conditions of the Sahara, when said conditions are supposed to have been favarable. Favorable climate attracts/invites people, not press them to vacate it in the favor of other locals; and 2) the following data [previously posted on this site as well]...

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercAFRICA.html

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beyoku
Member
Member # 14524

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for beyoku     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vansertimavindicated
Member
Member # 20281

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Vansertimavindicated     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
and there was not a single cracker that could be found in ANY part of Africa, the so called middle east, East Asia, southeast asia or India until AFTER 1500 BCE

It goes without saying that this holds true for the Americas, Austraila!

Oceania. Micronesia, Melanesia, and Polynesia. In other words the cracker can only be found where this pathetic abomination DEVOLVED by mating with 48 chromosome apes (Neanderthal, Denisova) and 42 chromosome monkeys (RH factor)

NOW YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THESE REPROBATES NEVER DISCUSS THEIR ANCESTRAL HOMELANDS

Posts: 3642 | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Djehuti
Member
Member # 6698

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Djehuti     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^ Yeah well, you will always have Euronuts that talk about an indigenous 'Caca-soid' presence in prehistoric Africa. Who cares? In the mean time, I think Explorer and Takruri bring up a relevant point that despite rare instances of 'green' or wet phases in North Africa, the region has for the most part of human history been an arid and dry desert region. Which means biological adaptation to such a climate was and is primary to African populations first before it was anywhere else. So any idiocy of "negroids" or blacks only being adapted to humid areas and 'Caca-soids' of the desert really just has to end.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3