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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
The KJV Bible - The Children of Ham

And the sons of Ham; Cush (northern Sudan), and Mizraim (Egypt), and Phut (East Africa), and Canaan (Palestine). And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar (Sennar in Sudan).
Genesis 10:6-10

And they (the sons of Judah upon entering Canaan) found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old.
I Chronicles 4:40

Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham...They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt; wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red Sea.
Psalms 105:23...106:21-22

And the lord said, like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia. For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 20:3...43:3

And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.
Ezekial 30:4

(Pharaoh's daughter) I am black, and comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Song of Solomon 1

Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength and it was infinite.
Nahum 3:9

Kebra Nagast (Ethiopian bible - "The Glory of Kings")

Solomon has taken a wife not of his color, who is moreover black, for he has married the daughter of Pharaoh.

The Greek Chronicles

Herodotus

Origins of the Oracle of Dodona

At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story: two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya (Africa)...The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds...As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was Egyptian. -book II

Colchians are of Egyptian Descent

But it is undoubtedly a fact that the Colchians are of Egyptian descent...My own idea on the subject was based on the fact that they have black skins and wooly hair...and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. -book II

Aristotle

Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as can be seen from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two -Physiognomy, 6

Diodorus

Origins of the Egyptians

The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians are one of their colonies, which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent...They add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws. -Universal History, book III

Colossi of Memnon

These are two colossal seated statues of Pharaoh Amenhotep III in western Thebes. At dawn, the northern statue emitted a whistling sound. Ancient Greeks who visited the statue called it the 'vocal Memnon', thinking the figure represented the Homeric character Memnon, singing to his mother Eos, the goddess of the dawn.

Memnon was an Ethiopian king who went to troy to help Priam, his uncle, and was killed by Achilles.

( To the Ancient Greeks; Egyptian - Ethiopian - same thing.}
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Aeschylus, -525(?) to -456, tragic poet and
creator of Greek tragedy.
In The Suppliants, Danaos, fleeing with his daughters, the Danaids, and pursued by his brother Aegyptos with his sons, the Aegyptiads, who seek to wed their cousins by force, climbs a hillock, looks out to sea and describes the Aegyptiads at the oars afar off in these terms: 'I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics.'33

A similar description of the Egyptian type of man recurs a few lines later in verse 745.

(f) Achilles Tatius of Alexandria.

He compares the herdsmen of the Delta to the Ethiopians and explains that they are blackish, like half-castes.

(g) Strabo, -58 to about +25.

Strabo visited Egypt and almost all the countries of the Roman empire. He concurs in the theory that the Egyptians and the Colchoi are of the same race but holds that the migrations to Ethiopia and Colchoi had been from Egypt only

'Egyptians settled in Ethiopia and in Colchoi.'34 There is no doubt whatever as to Strabo's notion of the Egyptian's race for he seeks elsewhere to explain why the Egyptians are darker than the Hindus, a circumstance which would permit the refutation, if needed, of any attempt at confusing 'the Hindu and Egyptian races'.

(h) Diodorus of Sicily, about -63 to +14, Greek historian and contemporary of Caesar Augustus.

According to Diodorus it was probably Ethiopia which colonized Egypt (in the Athenian sense of the term, signifying that, with overpopulation, a proportion of the people emigrate to new territory).

The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians
`are one of their colonies,35 which was
led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that
at the beginning of the world Egypt was
simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying
down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia
in its flood waters, finally filled it in
and made it part of the continent. . . They
add that the Egyptians have received from
them, as from authors and their ancestors,
the greater part of their laws.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
HERODOTUS ON SOME OF THE THINGS THE GREEKS LEARNED FROM EGYPT...




...
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
ORIGINAL KJV TEXT...

quote:

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6: And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
7: And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
8: And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
9: He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
10: And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

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quote:

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39: And they went to the entrance of Gedor, even unto the east side of the valley, to seek pasture for their flocks.
40: And they found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old.

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quote:

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23: Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
...
21: They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;
22: Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.

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quote:

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3: And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
4: So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
5: And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.
...
3: For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

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quote:

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4: And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.

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quote:

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1: The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2: Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
3: Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
4: Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
5: I am black, (but) comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
6: Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
...
10: My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
11: His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven.
...
9: I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh's chariots.
10: Thy cheeks are comely with rows of jewels, thy neck with chains of gold.
11: We will make thee borders of gold with studs of silver.

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quote:

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9: Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite; Put and Lubim were thy helpers.

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Nahum 3:9

IE, THE CHILDREN OF HAM DOMINATED THE WORLD.
...
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Hey Wally, do you think you can 'enlighten' some of the hopeless here?
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
I read somewhere if Kemet was seen as of one of the sons of Ham and the Babylonians were seen ..if only in-part the grandson of Ham..remember Kush begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the Earth before the lord and the begining of his kingdom is in the land of Sinaar..and he lived in his captial city of Babel.
Then I can understand how some from the Nation of Shem..meaning Hebrews would have a problem with the sons of Ham as they were hemmed in on
all fronts being pushed around by both.

Wally

quote:

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And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
8: And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
9: He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
10: And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
I read somewhere if Kemet was seen as of one of the sons of Ham and the Babylonians were seen ..if only in-part the grandson of Ham..remember Kush begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the Earth before the lord and the begining of his kingdom is in the land of Sinaar..and he lived in his captial city of Babel.
Then I can understand how some from the Nation of Shem..meaning Hebrews would have a problem with the sons of Ham as they were hemmed in on
all fronts being pushed around by both...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:
The Hamitic (IE, Kememou) moral code; which Judeo-Christian theology subsequently reduced to "Ten Commandments" - a 'Readers Digest' version

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:

I read somewhere if Kemet was seen as of one of the sons of Ham and the Babylonians were seen ..if only in-part the grandson of Ham..remember Kush begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the Earth before the lord and the begining of his kingdom is in the land of Sinaar..and he lived in his captial city of Babel.
Then I can understand how some from the Nation of Shem..meaning Hebrews would have a problem with the sons of Ham as they were hemmed in on
all fronts being pushed around by both.

Wally

And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
8: And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
9: He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
10: And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

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quote:

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This makes the above true and it strenghtens Mikes, Dr. Winters and Marc's case.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:

You have to constantly keep in mind the replication of names;
Sennar, Sudan > replicated as Mesopotamia, Asia
Sheba, Sudan > Sheba, Arabia
Kush, Sudan > Kush, Asia
...

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My point exactly. The similarity in names may point to early Semitic speakers if not Afrasians.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
CHRONICLES OF EMERGING WHITE RACISM; EUPHEMISTICALLY REFERRED TO AS 'EUROCENTRISM'...

(Note: Schure's "red race" are the people who once occupied Atlantis.)





The Great Initiates, Part 1 By Edouard Schure 1889

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck...but not a duck...

quote:

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“The fundamental character of the Egyptians in respect of physical type, language and tone of thought, is Negritic. The Egyptians were not negroes, but they bore resemblance to the negro which is indisputable.” Ancient Egypt by George Rawlinson and Arthur Gilman, London, 1886, p. 24.

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quote:

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The Egyptians were not negroes, but they bore resemblance to the negro which is indisputable.

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quote:

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And what case is that?? A black empire that stretched from Mali to Japan? Or that whites are albinos fron central Asia??

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Naww man..more like their case for "some "Black West Asians..were culturally derived Africans..atleast in part. For sure the Canannites were.

And if you have similar place names with similar folks it might just point to origins..all the time.. "No"...but it should not be poo pooed away casually...afterall my town of "New York" derived from a town in England called York.
 

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Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
 
^ don't go reminding the Asian that Levantine culture was African now.
 

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
OK, let's stop the crap right here and now! The subject of this topic is "Ancient Chronicles" (on African history}; it isn't about personal attacks against individuals here, and it will not be turned into another peanut gallery; IF YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF FOLLOWING THE FLOW OF THIS DISCUSSION, THEN DON'T DISCUSS! TAKE YOUR BS TO 'ANCIENT EGYPT'...
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
And when he heard say of Tirhakah king of Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee.

As one gathers eggs that have been abondoned in fright have I gathered the whole world


Taharka smiting Assyrians..poster repo??
Book of Kings chpt 9.v 19
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
The Garden of Eden..streaches from Iraq to Ethiopia.

Genesis 2:10-14 (New American Standard Bible)
10Now a (A)river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers.

11The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of (B)Havilah, where there is gold.

12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there.

13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of "Cush".

14The name of the third river is (C)Tigris; it flows east of Assyria And the fourth river is the (D)Euphrates.


The first rivers could be the Blue and White Niles..keep in mind the river is still called Gihon in Ethiopia today. The Pishon maybe some dried up river in Arabia a possible location for Havilah.

There is a certain amount of ironey in that in the war between science and popular religion that they are close to having an agreement on where man's origins lay..if one look at the area around Gihon as the birth-place of modern-man.

Although it is possible that the garden of Eden was in Africa, it would have to be at the very boundary of potential locations. In addition, such a location would contradict the Genesis 2 narrative that says that God planted the garden "toward the east" (presumably east of Israel). Ethiopia is to the southwest. Therefore, Mesopotamia or the Persian Gulf matches the description of the biblical narrative the best.

Out of Africa?Numerous scientific studies have proposed to have shown that a small group of individuals migrated out of eastern Africa and eventually expanded into most of today's populations.4 In reality, what the studies have shown is that African populations exhibit the most genetic diversity among all people groups. The theory is that once a population has been founded, the amount of genetic diversity increases over time. The theory is generally good, but does make some assumptions. One of the assumptions is that the populations have undergone little or no interbreeding with other populations. For Africa, the assumption is generally good, since Africa is geographically isolated from the rest of the world. The only route to get into Africa is through Suez. Likewise, for Native Americans, there was only one route - over the Aleutians near the end of an ice age, when sea levels were low and temperatures were beginning to moderate. However, for people groups in Mesopotamia and the Middle East, there was no geographic isolation. Being at the intersection of three continents, the Middle East has seen numerous people groups migrate through and back. So, it would be very unlikely that peoples of the Middle East would have the greatest genetic diversity of modern humans, even if humans originated there.
www.godandscience.org/apologetics/humans_out_...
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Not too unrelated to the above^ is this:

Now the Ethiopians, as historians relate, were the first of all men and the proofs of this statement, they say, are manifest. For that they did not come into their land as immigrants from abroad but were natives of it and so justly bear the name of "autochthones" is, they maintain, conceded by practically all men; furthermore, that those who dwell beneath the noon-day sun were, in all likelihood, the first to be generated by the earth, is clear to all; since, inasmuch as it was the warmth of the sun which, at the generation of the universe, dried up the earth when it was still wet and impregnated it with life, it is reasonable to suppose that the region which was nearest the sun was the first to bring forth living creatures. And they say that they were the first to be taught to honour the gods and to hold sacrifices and processions and festivals and the other rites by which men honour the deity; and that in consequence their piety has been published abroad among all men, and it is generally held that the sacrifices practised among the Ethiopians are those which are the most pleasing to heaven. As witness to this they call upon the poet who is perhaps the oldest and certainly the most venerated among the Greeks; for in the Iliad he represents both Zeus and the rest of the gods with him as absent on a visit to Ethiopia to share in the sacrifices and the banquet which were given annually by the Ethiopians for all the gods together:

For Zeus had yesterday to Ocean's bounds
Set forth to feast with Ethiop's faultless men,
And he was followed there by all the gods.

Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History, Books II.35 - IV.58, Translated by C.H. Oldfather, Harvard University Press, 2000

On the Ethiopians who dwell beyond Libya and their antiquities (Book III, chaps. 1-7)
wysinger.homestead.com/diodorus.html - Cached - Similar
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Loving it. Really educational!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:
The KJV Bible - The Children of Ham

And the sons of Ham; Cush (northern Sudan), and Mizraim (Egypt), and Phut (East Africa), and Canaan (Palestine). And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar (Sennar in Sudan).
Genesis 10:6-10

And they (the sons of Judah upon entering Canaan) found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old.
I Chronicles 4:40

Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham...They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt; wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red Sea.
Psalms 105:23...106:21-22

And the lord said, like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia. For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 20:3...43:3

And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.
Ezekial 30:4

(Pharaoh's daughter) I am black, and comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Song of Solomon 1

Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength and it was infinite.
Nahum 3:9

Kebra Nagast (Ethiopian bible - "The Glory of Kings")

Solomon has taken a wife not of his color, who is moreover black, for he has married the daughter of Pharaoh.

The Greek Chronicles

Herodotus

Origins of the Oracle of Dodona

At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story: two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya (Africa)...The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds...As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was Egyptian. -book II

Colchians are of Egyptian Descent

But it is undoubtedly a fact that the Colchians are of Egyptian descent...My own idea on the subject was based on the fact that they have black skins and wooly hair...and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. -book II

Aristotle

Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as can be seen from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two -Physiognomy, 6

Diodorus

Origins of the Egyptians

The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians are one of their colonies, which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent...They add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws. -Universal History, book III

Colossi of Memnon

These are two colossal seated statues of Pharaoh Amenhotep III in western Thebes. At dawn, the northern statue emitted a whistling sound. Ancient Greeks who visited the statue called it the 'vocal Memnon', thinking the figure represented the Homeric character Memnon, singing to his mother Eos, the goddess of the dawn.

Memnon was an Ethiopian king who went to troy to help Priam, his uncle, and was killed by Achilles.

( To the Ancient Greeks; Egyptian - Ethiopian - same thing.}

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Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
 
THE ETYMOLOGY OF 'ETHIOPIA'

SAHIDIC COPTIC: ETHAOSH = ETHIOPIA
MTAU NTR: ETHAOSH = FRONTIER, BOUNDARY
MTAU NTR: TOSH = BOUNDARY, NOME...

THE GREEK TERM 'AITHIOP, ETC., IS A MISTRANSLATION OF THE MTAU NTR WORD;
THUS, TO TRY AND FIND A CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN A MISTRANSLATION
AND A MTAU NTR WORD IS BOTH A WASTE OF TIME AND SILLY...

HERE'S A STUMBLING EFFORT WHICH ALMOST GETS THERE; SHORT OF THE MTAU NTR ITSELF!







THE LATTER QUOTATION IS FROM The history of Herodotus: A new English version, ed. with copious ..., Volume 2
By Herodotus
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
You call this ignored?

"The 42 Negative Confessions obviously predates and
informs the Israelite's moral system."

What do you think predates and informs, especially
informs, means?

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Still, the similarity is too striking to be ignored.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:

Naww man..more like their case for "some "Black West Asians..were culturally derived Africans..atleast in part. For sure the Canannites were.

And if you have similar place names with similar folks it might just point to origins..all the time.. "No"...but it should not be poo pooed away casually...afterall my town of "New York" derived from a town in England called York.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
You call this ignored?

"The 42 Negative Confessions obviously predates and
informs the Israelite's moral system."

What do you think predates and informs, especially
informs, means?

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Still, the similarity is too striking to be ignored.

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LOL! I find it amazing how someone who argued consitently against the heavy African (Kemetian) influence on ancient Hebrew culture would now turn around and accuse others of "ignoring" this huge debt. But this is what dishonest person do.
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Hey Ako/Altk chill out. Ako, brotha, give it a rest for now. Even the Sage can mis-interrpet sometimes.

I am trying to learn something here.


shhhhhshshhh!!!!! people are studying!
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ He can't chill, because he has a severe personality disorder. Perhaps the only think that can help him is medication along with a psychiatrist (hopefully a Jewish one).

quote:

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Originally posted by Bogledass:

LOL! I find it amazing how someone who argued consitently against the heavy African (Kemetian) influence on ancient Hebrew culture would now turn around and accuse others of "ignoring" this huge debt. But this is what dishonest person do.

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First of all, I never argued against any African/Kemetian influence on 'Hebrews' or rather Israelites. What I do argue against is your exaggeration of such influence as to say the very language, culture, and religion came from Egypt when that is obviously not the case. Second, I never accuse Takruri of anything.

As usual you are just a pathetic whiny loser who loves to distort or put words in others mouth in a vain attempt to discredit them. Sorry, my buggered boy but it won't do you any good.
 

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Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
 
^ stop trolling Wally's thread with your foolishness Asian.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
What are you talking about? Chill out from what?
I have ¬Bogle on ignore, my replies were to DJ
who may have forgotten my stance re Egypt and
Israel. Also, ¬Bogle was addressing DJ, not me.

So, what misinterpretation? I've always pointed
out the Egyptian precedents to Hokhmath Yisra'el
where applicable. Is it my fault that you failed
to follow my writings? Can you list the three
books I recommended for discerning Egyptian
borrowings by the Israelites? If not, leave
me out of your discourse, please. I can, and
do, handle my own affairs quite well myself.
Thank you.

Now the study question is did you in fact follow
the link to the 365 Negative Misswoth of Israel
and compare them to the 42 Negative Confessions
of Egypt? How can 365 be a Reader Digest version
of 42? Which is greater, 365 or 42? If anything
looks more expansion on the theme.

Now, since Egypt predates Israel, of course Israel
learned of the Negative Confessions when they were
a nationless Hebrew refugee corvee in Egypt. So their
much later Negative Misswoth were informed by the
Egyptian system. Do you understand what informed
means in this connection?

Although the Torah is an ancient chronicle and Wally
opened his thread with quotes from it I don't think he
wants we should stray from citations involving the Nile
Valley when examining non-Egyptian ancient chronicles.

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Hey Ako/Altk chill out. Ako, brotha, give it a rest for now. Even the Sage can mis-interrpet sometimes.

I am trying to learn something here.


shhhhhshshhh!!!!! people are studying!

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quote:

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And the LORD will smite Egypt, smiting and
healing; and they shall return unto the LORD,
and He will be entreated of them, and will heal them.

...

In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt
and with Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth;

for that the LORD of hosts hath blessed him,
saying: 'Blessed be Egypt My people and Assyria
the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance.'

Isaiah 19:22, 24-25

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
my replies were to DJ
who may have forgotten my stance re Egypt and
Israel

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The Latin Empire or Latin Empire of Constantinople (original Latin name: Imperium Romaniae, "Empire of Romania"[1]) is the name given by historians to the feudal Crusader state founded by the leaders of the Fourth Crusade on lands captured from the Byzantine Empire. It was established after the capture of Constantinople in 1204 and lasted until 1261. The Latin Empire was intended to supplant the Byzantine Empire as titular successor to the Roman Empire in the east, with a Western Catholic emperor enthroned in place of the Orthodox Byzantine emperors. Baldwin IX, Count of Flanders, was crowned the first Latin emperor as Baldwin I on 16 May 1204. The Latin Empire failed to attain political or economic dominance over the other Latin powers that had been established in former Byzantine territories in the wake of the Fourth Crusade, especially Venice, and after a short initial period of military successes it went into a steady decline. Weakened by constant warfare with the Bulgarians and the Greek successor states, it eventually fell to the Empire of Nicaea under Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos in 1261. The last Latin emperor, Baldwin II, went into exile, and the imperial title survived, with several claimants to it, until the 14th century.

By arrangement among the crusaders, Byzantine territory was divided: in the Partitio terrarum imperii Romanie, signed on 1 October 1204, three eighths - including Crete and other islands - went to the Republic of Venice. The Latin Empire claimed the remainder, and did exert control over areas of Greece, divided into vassal fiefs: the Kingdom of Thessalonica, the Principality of Achaea, the Duchy of Athens, the Duchy of the Archipelago and the short-lived duchies of Nicaea, Philippopolis, and Philadelphia. The Doge of Venice did not rank as a vassal to the Empire, but his position in control of 3/8 of its territory and of parts of Constantinople itself, ensured Venice's influence in the Empire's affairs. However, much of the former Byzantine territory remained in the hands of rival successor states led by Byzantine Greek aristocrats, such as the Despotate of Epirus, the Empire of Nicaea, and the Empire of Trebizond, which were bent on reconquest from the Latins.

The crowning of Baldwin and the creation of the Latin Empire had the curious effect of creating three so-called Roman Empires in Europe at the same time, the others being the Holy Roman Empire and the remnants of the Byzantine Empire (the direct successor of the ancient Roman Empire), none of which actually controlled the city of Rome, which was under the temporal authority of the Pope.

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Nomenclature
For more details on this topic, see Names of the Greeks.

Until one century after the fall of its capital Constantinople, the Empire was known to its inhabitants and all over the world[citation needed] as the Roman Empire, the Empire of the Romans (Latin: Imperium Romanum, Imperium Romanorum, Greek: ?as??e?a t?? ??µa???, Basileía tôn Rhomaíon), Romania[n 2] (??µa??a, Rhomanía), and also as Rhomaís (??µa??).[4]

The designation of the Empire as "Byzantine" began in Western Europe in 1557, when German historian Hieronymus Wolf published his work Corpus Historiæ By­zantinæ, a collection of Byzantine sources. "Byzantine" itself comes from "Byzantium", the name of the city of Constantinople before it became the capital of Constantine. This older name of the city would rarely be used from this point onward except in historical or poetic contexts. The publication in 1648 of the Byzantine du Louvre (Corpus Scriptorum Historiæ Byzantinæ), and in 1680 of Du Cange's Historia Byzantina further popularized the use of Byzantine among French authors, such as Montesquieu.[5] It was not until the 19th century[citation needed], however, with the birth of modern Greece, that the term "Byzantine" came into general use in the Western world since before this time the term Greek had been used to refer to the Empire and its descendants within the Ottoman Empire.

The Empire preserved Romano-Hellenistic traditions,[6] but due to the increasing predominance of the Greek language,[7] it was usually known to most of its western and northern contemporaries as the Empire of the Greeks.[n 3] The use of the term Empire of the Greeks (Latin: Imperium Graecorum) in the West to refer to the Eastern Roman Empire also implied a rejection of the empire's claim to be the Roman Empire.[8] The claims of the Eastern Roman Empire to Roman inheritance had been actively contested in the West at the time of the Roman Empress Irene of Athens, due to the coronation of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor year 800, by Pope Leo III, who needing help against enemies in Rome, saw the throne of the Roman Empire as vacant (lacking a male occupant). Whenever the Popes or the rulers of the West made use of the name Roman to refer to the eastern Roman Emperors, they preferred the term Imperator Romaniæ instead of Imperator Romanorum, a title that Westerners maintained applied only to Charlemagne and his successors.[9]

By contrast, in the Persian, Islamic, and Slavic worlds, the Empire's Roman identity was generally accepted. In the Islamic world it was known primarily as ??? (Rûm "Rome").[10][11]

In modern historical atlases, the Empire is usually called the Eastern Roman Empire in maps depicting the empire during the period AD 395 to AD 610, after the new emperor Heraclius changed the official language from Latin to Greek (already the language known by the great majority of the population); in maps depicting the Empire after AD 610, the term Byzantine Empire usually appears.

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Eastern Orthodoxy


One of the most tragic divisions within Christianity is the one between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches. Both have valid holy orders and apostolic succession through the episcopacy, both celebrate the same sacraments, both believe almost exactly the same theology, and both proclaim the same faith in Christ. So, why the division? What caused the division?



Emperor vs. Patriarch


After the western Roman Empire collapsed in A.D. 476, the eastern half continued under the title of the Byzantine Empire and was headquartered in Constantinople. The patriarch of that city had jurisdiction over the patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, and served under the emperor, who ruled those lands with military might. In the East, the emperor wielded tremendous influence in church affairs. Some emperors even claimed to be equal in authority to the twelve apostles, and as such claimed to have the power to appoint the patriarch of Constantinople. Although the two offices were legally autonomous, in practice the patriarch served at the emperor’s pleasure. Many patriarchs of Constantinople were good and holy bishops who ruled well and resisted imperial encroachments on church matters, but it is difficult to withstand the designs of power-hungry or meddlesome emperors with armed soldiers at their disposal.

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The famous third canon reads:

The Bishop of Constantinople, however, shall have the prerogative of honour after the Bishop of Rome because Constantinople is New Rome.[6]

This canon was a first step in the rising importance of the new imperial capital, just fifty years old, and was notable in that it demoted the patriarchs of Antioch and Alexandria. Jerusalem, as the site of the first Church, retained its place of honor. By 451, in the Council of Chalcedon (Canon IX), Constantinople would be recognized as the ecumenical jurisdiction of highest ecclesiastical appeal.[7]

Baronius maintained the non-authenticity of the third canon, while some medieval Greeks maintained that it did not declare supremacy of the Bishop of Rome, but the primacy; "the first among equals," similar to how they today view the Bishop of Constantinople. Throughout the next several centuries, the Western Church asserted that the Bishop of Rome had supreme authority, and by the time of the Great Schism the Roman Catholic Church based its claim to supremacy on the succession of St. Peter. When the First Council of Constantinople was approved, Rome protested the diminished honor to be afforded the bishops of Antioch and Alexandria. The status of these Eastern patriarchs would be brought up again by the Papal Legates at the Council of Chalcedon. Pope Leo the Great[8], declared that this canon had never been submitted to Rome and that their lessened honor was a violation of the Nicene order. At the repudiated Fourth Council of Constantinople (869), the Roman legates[9] asserted the place of the bishop of Rome's honor over the bishop of Constantinople's; nine years later, this latrocinium council was replaced.

After the Great Schism (1054), in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council[10], Roman supremacy over the whole world was formally claimed by the new Latin patriarch. The Roman correctores of Gratian[11], insert the words: "canon hic ex iis est quos apostolica Romana sedes a principio et longo post tempore non recipit."

The patriarch often attempted to bolster his position in the universal Church to give himself more leverage in dealing with the emperor, and this usually brought him into conflict with Rome.

During the years of conflict between East and West, the Roman pontiff remained firm, defending the Catholic faith against heresies and unruly or immoral secular powers, especially the Byzantine emperor. The first conflict came when Emperor Constantius appointed an Arian heretic as patriarch. Pope Julian excommunicated the patriarch in 343, and Constantinople remained in schism until John Chrysostom assumed the patriarchate in 398.

Ironically, in the Church’s eighth-century struggle against the Iconoclastic heresy (which sought to eliminate all sacred images), it was the pope and the Western bishops mainly who fought for the Catholic practice of venerating icons, which is still very much a part of Orthodox liturgy and spirituality. The patriarch of Constantinople sided with the heretical, iconoclastic emperors.

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Fats sheep are the source of your shame and your vanity.

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