quote:Taken from
A pharaonic inscription at Uweinat!
In late 2008 Mark Borda and Mahmoud Marei have discovered a pharaonic inscription at Jebel Uweinat, a most amazing find that will require a complete re-thinking of our understanding of the deep desert travel capabilities of the Ancient Egyptians.
quote:
An incredible find by Mark Borda & Mahmoud Marei in December 2008 has finally provided the dramatic and irrefutable proof that Ancient Egyptians did do long range desert travel, leaving an inscription commemorating their visit to Jebel Uweinat some 4000 years ago.
quote:
. . . .
An incredible find by Mark Borda & Mahmoud Marei in December 2008 has finally provided the dramatic and irrefutable proof that Ancient Egyptians did do long range desert travel, leaving an inscription commemorating their visit to Jebel Uweinat some 4000 years ago.
. . . .
The inscription is made on the vertical face of a large rock in a prominent position on a hillside. The inscription has been published in detail in Sahara 19 (CLayton, Joseph, Aloisa de Trafford, Mark Borda, A hyeroglyphic Inscription found at Jebel uweinat mentioning Yam and Tekhebet, 2008).
. . . .
The inscription is composed of three parts, from left to right the seated figure of the King wearing the red crown and holding a staff, followed by the name of the king in a cartouche and the associated royal titulary. On the right there are two separate pieces of text that refer to two "lands" (i.e. the people of these lands) bringing tribute to the king. While the whole scene suggests the two named lands bringing tribute and by implication accepting the overlordship of Mentuhotep, more realistically it commemorates a trading event.
quote:
The upper inscription on the right reads Iam hr ms ntr... ("Yam bringing ..."). The land of Yam was the destination of three lengthy voyages made by Harkhouf, whose autobiographical texts on the facade of his rock tomb in Aswan are among the most important Ancient Egyptian historical records. While the three voyages are described in much detail, the location of Yam has been a total mystery, with most Egyptologists placing it somewhere in Nubia and west of the Nile. The reference to Yam at Uweinat suggests that the route starting at Dakhla, and clearly passing by Uweinat, could possibly have continued on to Yam, which in this case could have been further south-west (with Uweinat possibly being a meeting and trading point). Possible areas thay may be identified as Yam are Darfur, Ennedi or even the Tibesti mountains. Unfortunately the name of the produce is too weathered to be clearly readable, but the figure holding a bowl or basket full of some substance behind the prostrate figure would indicate a powdered or granular substance. The first sign of the produce is ntr, Clayton and Trafford suggest a reading of Sn-ntr (incense), as this was a produce of Yam referred to by Harkhouf. Having had a good close look, I'm reasonably convinced that no more than one sign could be after ntr, the other patterns are simply weathering. This would not fit sn-ntr, however there is an alternate reading/produce, ntr-y (a kind of Natron). We do know that Natron is a key produce of the Chad region to this day, and with the ongoing civil war in Egypt, Mentuhotep in Thebes may have been cut off from the only major supply of this material crucial for mummification, Wadi Natrun in the north. However at this moment this reading is nothing more than speculation.
quote:
The lower inscription is the repetition of the upper one, with the name of the land and the produce replaced. It reads Tkhb-t(n?) hr ms ... ("Tekhebet bringing ..."). This is the only known reference to this land. Clayton and Trafford suggest the reading of Tkhb-t, suggesting the "n" sign to be a duplicate determinative (the Tkhb root means "watered, irrigated"). However at close look, I can only see a single "n" sign, which would make the reading an alternate Tkhb-tn. In both cases the name would seem to imply "The place with water". There is tantalizing logical jump to the present day name of Jebel Uweinat, in Arabic "The mountain of the little springs". The produce is totally illegible with the exception of the first sign which is clearly a "t", however the image of an oryx antelope would fit the wildlife expectable at an Uweinat mountain slightly wetter than today. However this is purely a hypothesis at the moment, that cannot be proven either way until further references to this place are found.
quote:Ditto. I can barely make out some of the other signs, save for the kneeling figure handing/holding out some good/material, a figure which appears to be a stick, two bird figures, and possibly legs(?). Similar situation with the outline of a cartouche above; the outlines of the bird figures are obvious enough, but not as much with what could be the pictograph of mountains(?), or a bar-like(?) figure flanking what appears to be a wavy (water-like)(?) figure/line, which in turn is followed by yet another bar-like pictograph(?). I intend to eventually take a closer look at what these letters are relaying, to the extent that I can make out the letters.
Originally posted by alTakruri:
Unfortunately the name of the produce is too weathered to be clearly readable...
quote:'ntr' strikes me as word that is generally associated with the neteru/deities; is it serving that function here, aka divinity/sacredness, even if the the various words that incorporate it may mean something more? Linking the word to some sort of a Natron (possibly used in body preservation, like in mummification) may suggest an idea headed in that direction; no?
but the figure holding a bowl or basket full of some substance behind the prostrate figure would indicate a powdered or granular substance. The first sign of the produce is ntr, Clayton and Trafford suggest a reading of Sn-ntr (incense), as this was a produce of Yam referred to by Harkhouf. Having had a good close look, I'm reasonably convinced that no more than one sign could be after ntr, the other patterns are simply weathering. This would not fit sn-ntr, however there is an alternate reading/produce, ntr-y (a kind of Natron). We do know that Natron is a key produce of the Chad region to this day...
quote:
Other wooded land
Shrubs
Scrub types occur in the "semi-desert zone" (the northern half of Kordofan and Blue Nile provinces, the whole of the Khartoum province and about three-quarters of Kassala province and some parts of Darfur adjoining Kordofan). The rainfall is 75 to 300 mm, confined to July and August, and comes as a few local storms or scattered showers with a variable and unreliable pattern. The vegetation is a variable mixture of grasses and herbs, either without any shrubs or more frequently with widely scattered ones about 2 meters high. The grass is not dense enough to allow fires to burn through it annually. Only three sub-divisions have been classified as bearing woody vegetation:
- Acacia tortilis-Maerua crassifolia desert scrub is seldom homogeneous because of advanced geological erosion. The characteristic tree is Acacia tortilis, which usually has a flat-topped crown and several stems. In the drier parts it is confined to drainage lines, but as the rainfall increases it spreads out from these and in places occupies quite large areas. Some fairly thick even stands occur east of Khartoum. A common associate is Maerua crassifolia while Acacia raddiana, Salvadora persica and Leptadenia pyrotechnica are found in sandy wadis and Capparis decidua, Ziziphus spina-christi and Balanites aegyptiaca in clay drainages. Acacia nubica and Calotropis procera indicate heavy overgrazing.
- Acacia mellifera-Commiphora desert scrub replaces the previous vegetation type in northern Kordofan and northern Darfur. Ground cover varies greatly. Generally, the bushes occur as only a scattering but they become thicker and more uniform on hollows between "gozes". Particularly near rock outcrops, but also away from these, Commiphora africana and other species of Commiphora are the most abundant bushes, growing in association with Acacia mellifera. Others in varying quantity are Maerua crassifolia, Boscia senegalensis, Acacia raddiana and Lannea humilis. Leguminous shrubs are often present. Generally, but not always, there are more annual grasses than perennials. Blepharis sp. is widely seen in places where the grazing pressure is not too heavy.
quote:I agree - and think the fact that archeologists think the whole history of Egypt needs to be "rethought" by "scholars" due to this find makes me wonder what the h_ck they think Egypt was. Why would ancient Africans so familiar with the stars not know about the places they came from. Ridiculously insulting is all I can say, and weird science.
Originally posted by zarahan:
It would not at all be surprising to see physical trade links into Chad and deep into southern Sudan, given the whole history of movement between the Saharan zones and the Nile Valley.
quote:Yea and that's not all. Historians have yet to implement the mass migrations that happened in archaic history into the mainstream. That's why so few people can come to grasp this idea that a population could have moved from Africa to Arabia and back again. Or that Egyptians could have had links to a group as far away as the Chad (if that's really where Yam was located). It's like genetics and linguistics are hitting a brick wall known as academic dogma. Take Benin HbS and its spread for instance. What is the general view of how this West African haplotype reached so many places? The common answer seems to be slavery, but that's really a major cop-out and everyone knows it. Do historians REALLY believe carriers of E3a migrated to West Africa and never left? We know this is not the case because their sickle cell marker has popped up as far away as Oman and Greece. So Europeans and Arabs could travel all over the Old World, but Africans couldn't?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:I agree - and think the fact that archeologists think the whole history of Egypt needs to be "rethought" by "scholars" due to this find makes me wonder what the h_ck they think Egypt was. Why would ancient Africans so familiar with the stars not know about the places they came from. Ridiculously insulting is all I can say, and weird science.
Originally posted by zarahan:
It would not at all be surprising to see physical trade links into Chad and deep into southern Sudan, given the whole history of movement between the Saharan zones and the Nile Valley.
I guess just because Europeans discovered America and emerged from their "dark age" a mere several hundred years ago everybody else since recorded history must have been just as isolated and static.
quote:Evergreen Posts:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
From Dakhla down to Yam? – New Light on the Abu Ballas Trail
Rudolph Kuper, Frank Förster, Heiko Riemer
This brings up again the much-discussed question about the location of Yam, recorded as the target of the trade expeditions of Harkhuf, 6th Dynasty governor of Upper Egypt, and placed by most authors somewhere in Nubia. Now it may be located 600 km west of the Nile Valley in Jebel Ouenat itself (?) or even further south in Darfur or in the Ennedi mountains in Chad, impressively demonstrating ancient Egypt’s far reaching political ties and another “Corridor to Africa”.
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan:
It would not at all be surprising to see physical trade links into Chad
and deep into southern Sudan, given the whole history of movement
between the Saharan zones and the Nile Valley.
quote:Yeah - I'll never Dr. Van Sertima in one of his lectures telling the story of how he was talking over the phone with a European "scholar" in either South Africa or somewhere else outside of the US about how certain crops similar native to to Africa got to the Americas. He said the guy said that he didn't think "the Negro" could have sailed to America but that it is more likely that a bird probably carried some seeds over.lol!
Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Yea and that's not all. Historians have yet to implement the mass migrations that happened in archaic history into the mainstream. That's why so few people can come to grasp this idea that a population could have moved from Africa to Arabia and back again. Or that Egyptians could have had links to a group as far away as the Chad (if that's really where Yam was located). It's like genetics and linguistics are hitting a brick wall known as academic dogma. Take Benin HbS and its spread for instance. What is the general view of how this West African haplotype reached so many places? The common answer seems to be slavery, but that's really a major cop-out and everyone knows it. Do historians REALLY believe carriers of E3a migrated to West Africa and never left? We know this is not the case because their sickle cell marker has popped up as far away as Oman and Greece. So Europeans and Arabs could travel all over the Old World, but Africans couldn't?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:I agree - and think the fact that archeologists think the whole history of Egypt needs to be "rethought" by "scholars" due to this find makes me wonder what the h_ck they think Egypt was. Why would ancient Africans so familiar with the stars not know about the places they came from. Ridiculously insulting is all I can say, and weird science.
Originally posted by zarahan:
It would not at all be surprising to see physical trade links into Chad and deep into southern Sudan, given the whole history of movement between the Saharan zones and the Nile Valley.
I guess just because Europeans discovered America and emerged from their "dark age" a mere several hundred years ago everybody else since recorded history must have been just as isolated and static.
I'm sorry, I'm ranting now. Great thread though and very puzzling.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
There's a pre-historic route to Lake Chad from the
Nile that was useful in the spread of the Sudanese
Neolithic industry. Map(s) forthcoming.
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan:
It would not at all be surprising to see physical trade links into Chad
and deep into southern Sudan, given the whole history of movement
between the Saharan zones and the Nile Valley.
quote:^^ Excellent information- showing the key role of
Originally posted by alTakruri:
Posted earlier, now zoomed and edited, this map shows a pre-historic route to Lake Chad from the Upper Nile Valley.
The same route in hemi-continental perspective probably goes back at least to the Sudan Neolithic and last Green Sahara phases.
The eastern terminals Dongola/Sennar to Darfur and
Kordofan and then on to Lake Tschad and from there
most likely up to Bilma for the track to the Niger's
Bend and terminating at the Senegal may have some
relation to the spread of the Niger-Kordofanian super
phylum.
That is the "Sahel Route" established from times
pre-historic and still in use today. It would've
been used by Classical African Civilization folk
to travel for trade or migration to West Africa.
The part of this route as far as Lake Tschad may also
have to do with the two Afrisan phyla Chadic and
Tamazight and maybe the Nilo-Saharan super phyum.
This is something showing the role of the Sahel in
the transfer of people, language, and culture from
the Middle Nile to the Lake Tschad Basin based on
Roger Blench
The Westward Wanderings of Cushitic Pastoralists:
Explorations in the Prehistory of Central Africa
in
Baroin C, Boutrais J, (eds)
L'homme et L'animal dans le Bassin du Lac Tchad
Paris: 1999 39:80
A - The "Inter-Saharan Hypothesis" (p.70)
1). Tentative Historical Implications
* Cushitic and Chadic share a lexicon of common
domestic animal names, numerals, and body parts.
This puts them in a special relationship vis a
vis Egyptian-Semitic-Tamazight (Ehrets "North
Afroasiatic -- 1995). The link results from
Cushitics migrating westward. Cattle, goats,
sheep and possibly donkeys, dogs, pigs, and
guinea-fowl accompanied the migrants.
* The distance presents no problem since gradual
migration of pastoralists over great expanses is
evidenced by the Fulani spreading from Senegal
to Sudan this past millenia. Also, Shuwa "Arabs"
made a Nile Valley to Lake Tschad migration.
* Nilo-Saharan speakers eliminated the Chadic
languages once spoken in a strip across Sudan.
A few Chadic lects, like Kujarke, linger in the
west of Sudan.
2). Archaeological Correlations
* The so-called Leiterband pottery tradition is
thought to spring from the Khartoum Neolithic.
Sites having the pottery found in the Eastern
Sahara at the Wadi Howar between the Nile
Valley and Eastern Chad also have pits burying
complete cattle skeletons. Fish bones indicate
a diet similar todays Nilotics like the Dinka
combining pastoralism with fishing.
* The Wadi Howar's west end leads to the Ennedi
and Biltine region of mountains. There is a
pass between the two which would have served
the wandering pastoralists. Other side the pass
another wadi takes up, the Wadi Hawach, which
is followed by more and littler wadis clear to
Lake Tschad.
* Rather than a planned timely migration the
scenario is rather one of westward seeping
transhumance maybe beginning in Ethiopia
between 4000 and 3000 BCE. The Khartoum
Neolithic began roughly 3700 BCE and the
spread along the Wadi Howar about 2000 BCE.
= = =
Above is the map I simplified and added the red undercores to,
and on which you can follow the rest of the route from Kukiya
on to the Senegal as well as see all the major historic trade routes
from the Savannah to the Meditteranean and from the Red Sea to
the Atlantic Ocean.
quote:It's late over here, and going to sleep.
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I wonder if there's any chance that Yam was located somewhere directly south of Nubia, in South Sudan? I don't think much archaeology has been done in that area, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lost kingdom once thrived there that was contemporaneous with Kemet and Kush. Maybe the whole Nile region was laced with kingdoms!
quote:I did that so long ago I can't remember where
Originally posted by Ethiop:
These maps are very interesting indeed. alTakruri what are the sources of these maps or is there any one here who have the source of the trading maps above. Thanks Ethiop
quote:Thanks for the info. My inquire is genuine okay. What info and source to back this claim the Egyptian and Nubian traded with the people of the Niger river. I have been trying to find archeology reports about this but no success. The Soninke and Mande I do understand from the ancient Saharrans but the other well thats a different story. What is going on with your home page Thanks
Originally posted by mena7:
The map African trades routes in ancient times was from Mustafa Gadalla book Exiled Egyptian.
Some scholar states at one point Nubia included West Africa. Other scholar states Punt was in West Africa. According to King juba I of Mauretania there was an underground link between the Niger river and the Nile river. king juba statement seems symbolic. The Egyptian and Nubian traded with the people of the Niger river. The Soninke, Mande, Yoruba and Ibo people of the Niger River were also one of the many tribes of Ancient Egypt.
quote:Thanks Djehuti. Yes I am familiar with Herkhuf trade expedition for some time. As a matter of fact I have often wonder about Egypt trading routes into inner Africa but it was always a Myster. However since finding this post by alTakruri which has influenced me to contemplate greatly about Egypt trade with inner Africa. It is facinating to me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
EXPLORATIONS OF HERKHUF
[Herkhuf, an Egyptian nobleman, served the Egyptian Pharaoh Mernera (Sixth Dynasty, 2340-2160 BC), traveling extensively through Nubia.]
"With the increase of Egyptian prestige in Nubia, the way was open for exploration into the far south and foremost in this was the nobleman Herkhuf, who may be considered the first explorer of whom history has any real record. ...Herkhuf was sent by Mernera to lead an expedition to open up communications with Yam, a country of whose location we are as yet uncertain, but which was certainly south of the Second Cataract; in fact, some authorities believe it was as far south as Darfur. This expedition, which was absent for seven months, was such a success that Herkhuf was soon sent on another journey through Nubia, taking what he describes as the "Elephantine Road," which has been identified as the desert road starting on the west bank at Aswan which runs some distance out, but more or less parallel with the river. This road is still used extensively at the present time in the driving up of great herds of camels from the Sudan destined for the meat markets of Egypt. Herkhuf was understandably proud of his success as an explorer, for with reference to his second expedition he records that "Never before had any noble or caravan-leader who went forth to Yam done this."
"After an interval, apparently of some years, Herkhuf undertook his third journey into the unknown south. This time he took a different route which he describes as the "What" road; it appears to have been farther out in the western desert, probably the Daraw-Kurkur track which is still used by express caravans today. It passes through the oasis of Kurkur, and here Herkhuf learned that the Chief of Yam had passed that way shortly before him, with the intention of waging war against the Temehu or Libyan inhabitants of the Kharga Oasis. For some reason not explained, Herkhuf felt it his duty to follow and act as a peacemaker, in which undertaking he succeeded, for he apparently enjoyed considerable influence and prestige with the people of Yam, who gave him a military escort on his return journey to Egypt. This escort was probably very necessary, for Herkhuf came back with 300 donkeys laden with valuable products of the south, such as incense, ebony, and ivory, which would have been welcome plunder for the inhabitants of Lower Nubia, through whose land he had to pass.
"Herkhuf's fourth and last journey was made after the death of his royal master Mernera who had been succeeded by the boy king Pepi II. During his return journey he wrote to the king informing him that he was bringing a dancing dwarf from the land of Yam. This news delighted the young pharaoh and he sent a letter to the explorer saying: "Come northward to the court immediately, and bring with you the pygmy which you have brought living, in good condition and healthy, from the land of ghosts, for the amusement of the king, to rejoice and gladden his heart. When the pygmy is in the vessel, appoint trustworthy people to be on either side of him. Take care that he does not fall in the water. When he is sleeping at night, appoint trustworthy people to sleep beside him in his cabin, and make an inspection ten times a night. My Majesty desires to see this pygmy more than the gifts of Sinai and of Punt." There is some question as to whether Herkhuf's gift to the king was a real pygmy or just a dwarf, for the translation of the ancient Egyptian word is uncertain. If indeed it was a real pygmy, it would suggest that the expedition must have penetrated far into the southern Sudan, or alternatively that the little captive had been obtained through barter in the land of Yam."
Emery, Walter B. 1967. "Outline of Nubian History, Part I: The Archaic Period and the Old Kingdom, c. 3100-2160 BC." Lost Land Emerging. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons. pp. 177-179
^ From the above information it can be ascertained that Yam's likely location was somewhere to the south past the 2nd cataract going towards Punt and probably bordering the Libyan Temehu to their west as seen by their apparent conflict with them.
It's interesting that references to Yam disappear at around the same time that Kushite kingdom of Kerma arose. It's little doubt Yam was replaced or assimilated by Kerma.
The above map which Tukuler originally posted comes from www.egypt-tehuti.org which is a website on Egypt's African identity though apparently you have to register to enter.
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ From the above information it can be ascertained that Yam's likely location was somewhere to the south past the 2nd cataract going towards Punt and probably bordering the Libyan Temehu to their west as seen by their apparent conflict with them.
It's interesting that references to Yam disappear at around the same time that Kushite kingdom of Kerma arose. It's little doubt Yam was replaced or assimilated by Kerma.
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Fascinating find nontheless!! So after all this time Yam was in the Western Desert. Many scholars once thought it was located south in Nubia and in fact was area of land that became Kush.
quote:.
Is it not possible that what they discovered was a trading post constructed and managed by the people of Yam until Egyptians took it over?
quote:.
EXPLORATIONS OF HERKHUF
... Yam, a country of whose location we are as yet uncertain, but which was certainly south of the Second Cataract; in fact, some authorities believe it was as far south as Darfur.
...
... the "What" road; it appears to have been farther out in the western desert, probably the Daraw-Kurkur track which is still used by express caravans today. It passes through the oasis of Kurkur, and here Herkhuf learned that the Chief of Yam had passed that way shortly before him, with the intention of waging war against the Temehu or Libyan inhabitants of the Kharga Oasis. For some reason not explained, Herkhuf felt it his duty to follow and act as a peacemaker, in which undertaking he succeeded, for he apparently enjoyed considerable influence and prestige with the people of Yam, who gave him a military escort on his return journey to Egypt.
quote:
Harkhuf's Third Journey
His majesty now sent me a third time to Yam;
I went forth from - - - upon the Wehat (wh'.t) Road, and I found the ruler of Yam [line 11]
going to the land of Temeh (tmh) to smite Temeh [line 12]
as far as the western corner of heaven. I went forth after him to the land of Temeh, [line 13]
and I pacified him, until he praised all the gods for the king's sake. [line 14]
quote:.
Originally posted by Firewall:
Temehu and Tehenu.
http://www.worldhistoria.com/temehu-and-tehenu_topic125561.html
quote:OK that's that O'Connor theory of a 5th-6th cataract Yam.
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I wonder if there's any chance that Yam was located somewhere directly south of Nubia, in South Sudan? I don't think much archaeology has been done in that area, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lost kingdom once thrived there that was contemporaneous with Kemet and Kush. Maybe the whole Nile region was laced with kingdoms!
quote:
Other scholars see Elephantine as the starting and end point for each caravan, with the trade goods then being shipped between this southern city and the more northerly capital. They believe that Yam lay further south, perhaps on or near the Shendi Reach of the Nile (above the fifth cataract, near where it divides into the White and Blue Nile).
quote:.
Sai Island
about 100 miles north of the Third Cataract of the Nile (and about 470 km. south of Aswan)
Here is the site of a large Neolithic settlement (dating probably from about 5000-4000 B.C.); the evidence for this was revealed in aerial photographs shown at a meeting in Lille, France, in 1994. By now it has probably been partly excavated. This would seem to be the largest, earliest "city" known in Africa (including Egypt). Here, too, is the site of a large Bronze Age town, probably dating as early as 2500 B.C. It may have been the capital of the "Kingdom of Yam" mentioned in Egyptian documents of the Sixth Dynasty. By about 2000 B.C. it seems to have been part of the early kingdom of Kush, centered at Kerma, and it remained probably the chief northern city of that state (ca. 2000-1500 B.C.), until conquered by the Egyptian pharaohs in early Dynasty 18. It was evidently called "Sha'a" (from which the modern name Sai derives); it had its own kings, whose tombs lay on the west side of the townsite and which are surrounded by hundreds of other smaller tombs. After it was conquered by the Egyptians, it became the site of an Egyptian fort and town until the Egyptians withdrew northward from the region about 1150 B.C.
Excavator:
Francis Geus, Lille, France
quote:
Wawat, Irtjet, Zatjou, Kaau and Yam. Whatever the precise extension and location of those territorial units, their existence seems all the more indisputable since Herkhouf, who apparently traveled at least four times through Nubia, explains in his biography how, on his third journey, he had to pacify the ruler of Yam who was chasing the desert Temehu, how, on his second journey, Zatjou and Irtjet had the same ruler whom he visited in his residence, and how, on its third journey, Irtjet, Zatjou and Wawat had unified under the authority of one ruler whose threat he had to face, with success thanks to an escort provided to him by the ruler of Yam (Roccati 1982 : 187-220).
It also appears from Herkhouf's account that Yam was not only the southernmost of those territorial units but that it was for the Egyptians their favored trading partner. This is why, at the light of what is now known of the archaeology of the Kerma basin, most scholars agree to identify it to Kerma and its territory, and to locate the four other units north of it. Trying to evaluate their territorial limits would be too debatable (supra), but it seems reasonable to think that Wawat, Irtjet and Zatjou shared a territory covering the former A-Group area and to suggest that Kaau was centered around Sai island, which archaeological remains (Geus 1996) and later inscriptions point out as a major centre at that time.
Francis Geus
The Middle Nile Valley from Later Prehistory to the end of the New Kingdom
Tenth International Conference of the International Society for Nubian Studies
September 9-14, 2002 - Rome, Italy
quote:From the evidence I always thought Yam was in a general location that was southwest i.e. south of Lower Nubia but west of the Nile. I have no idea about its exact border areas but you do raise a point that the center of the kingdom could very well have been along the Nile while its borders stretched into Temeh.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ From the above information it can be ascertained that Yam's likely location was somewhere to the south past the 2nd cataract going towards Punt and probably bordering the Libyan Temehu to their west as seen by their apparent conflict with them.
It's interesting that references to Yam disappear at around the same time that Kushite kingdom of Kerma arose. It's little doubt Yam was replaced or assimilated by Kerma.
It's interesting at the time the OP report was
released you seemed convinced by this one
piece of evidence that Yam was in the desert.
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Fascinating find nontheless!! So after all this time Yam was in the Western Desert. Many scholars once thought it was located south in Nubia and in fact was area of land that became Kush.
When doubts were raised you did modify
quote:.
Is it not possible that what they discovered was a trading post constructed and managed by the people of Yam until Egyptians took it over?
So I guess what I'm wondering is what exactly brought
you back around to the most parsimonious view that Yam
was one of the kingdoms along the Nile south of TaSeti/Wawat?
quote:Ah, that sounds right! I am also reminded of past archaeology showing connections between so-called C-Group and Temehu as well. As far as the linguistic evidence goes phonetically Berber has more in common with Egyptian yet grammatically and even phonologically its features are more aligned with Chadic. We also know that many Saharan Tamazig genetically have much in common with Beja people, though as to the Darfur region being the source I don't know. I find it puzzling that Darfur today is predominantly Nilo-Saharan speaking.
Centric long ago posted this interesting map locating
major Nehesi territories and the land of Temeh to boot.
At first, some of Temeh appears too far south but then
Joseph O. Vogel published a map accompanying an article
by Kay Williamson based on Peter Behrens locating Tamazight
(Berber) language origins at Darfur just north of Jebel Marra
where Meidob is now spoken.
Behrens work dates to 1984. I've asked a few times for
more up to date info on the place where Tamazight began
but no one yet has offered anything from any linguist.
quote:Perhaps the actual oasis they referred to was Silma oasis per truthcentric's map(??)
Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:.
EXPLORATIONS OF HERKHUF
... Yam, a country of whose location we are as yet uncertain, but which was certainly south of the Second Cataract; in fact, some authorities believe it was as far south as Darfur.
...
... the "What" road; it appears to have been farther out in the western desert, probably the Daraw-Kurkur track which is still used by express caravans today. It passes through the oasis of Kurkur, and here Herkhuf learned that the Chief of Yam had passed that way shortly before him, with the intention of waging war against the Temehu or Libyan inhabitants of the Kharga Oasis. For some reason not explained, Herkhuf felt it his duty to follow and act as a peacemaker, in which undertaking he succeeded, for he apparently enjoyed considerable influence and prestige with the people of Yam, who gave him a military escort on his return journey to Egypt.
I don't know about Harkhuf learning in Kurkur about
Yam's king marching on Temeh and Kharga as Temeh
also seems wrong to me.
Though this map places Yam between the 2nd and 3rd
cataracts it does correctly place Kurkur, Kharga, and
the Wehat Road.
Kharga is too far north, being west of Egypt's 2nd/3rd
nome for Nehesi to be warring there within Pharaoh
territory. Kurkur is in Wawat and far off track of Wehat Road
quote:
Harkhuf's Third Journey
His majesty now sent me a third time to Yam;
I went forth from - - - upon the Wehat (wh'.t) Road, and I found the ruler of Yam [line 11]
going to the land of Temeh (tmh) to smite Temeh [line 12]
as far as the western corner of heaven. I went forth after him to the land of Temeh, [line 13]
and I pacified him, until he praised all the gods for the king's sake. [line 14]
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
So I guess what I'm wondering is what exactly brought
you back around to the most parsimonious view that Yam
was one of the kingdoms along the Nile south of TaSeti/Wawat?
From the evidence I always thought Yam was in a general location that was southwest i.e. south of Lower Nubia but west of the Nile. I have no idea about its exact border areas but you do raise a point that the center of the kingdom could very well have been along the Nile while its borders stretched into Temeh.
quote:Ah, that sounds right! I am also reminded of past archaeology showing connections between so-called C-Group and Temehu as well. As far as the linguistic evidence goes phonetically Berber has more in common with Egyptian yet grammatically and even phonologically its features are more aligned with Chadic. We also know that many Saharan Tamazig genetically have much in common with Beja people, though as to the Darfur region being the source I don't know. I find it puzzling that Darfur today is predominantly Nilo-Saharan speaking.
Centric long ago posted this interesting map locating
major Nehesi territories and the land of Temeh to boot.
At first, some of Temeh appears too far south but then
Joseph O. Vogel published a map accompanying an article
by Kay Williamson based on Peter Behrens locating Tamazight
(Berber) language origins at Darfur just north of Jebel Marra
where Meidob [a Nilo-Saharan language] is now spoken.
Behrens work dates to 1984. I've asked a few times for
more up to date info on the place where Tamazight began
but no one yet has offered anything from any linguist.
quote:Nope.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Perhaps the actual oasis they referred to was Silma oasis per truthcentric's map(??)
Harkhuf's Third Journey
[..........] His majesty now sent me a third time to Yam;
[line 11] I went forth from - - - upon the Wehat (wh'.t) Road, and I found the ruler of Yam
[line 12] going to the land of Temeh (tmh) to smite Temeh
[line 13] as far as the western corner of heaven. I went forth after him to the land of Temeh,
[line 14] and I pacified him, until he praised all the gods for the king's sake.
Or is it still too far north?
quote:
Originally posted by Firewall:
Has anybody read this book?
The Golden Age of the Moor.
I am reading some of it for the first time,well at least the ancient libyan parts so far.
Here it talks about the Berbers,libyans,temehou,adyrmachidae etc..
Alot of info about early libyans or berbers.
PAGES 109 TO 131 AND BEYOND,AND CHECK OUT PAGES 114 AND PAGES BEFORE THAT.
In fact check out the whole book after you read the pages i mentioned.
The Golden Age of the Moor
quote:Culture and Customs of Libya
Originally posted by Firewall:
Anybody has a list of more updated books that deal with berbers and this time focuses on ancient libyans?
Right now i am doing more research on them.
The Ancient Berber Tribes of Eastern Libya:
http://www.temehu.com/Libyan-People.htm
quote:I meant to say that Yam bordered Temeh. Perhaps the dispute between the two polities was about trade.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Just to be clear I don't think Yam stretched
into Temeh. Primary docs clearly distinguish
Yam from Temeh. I don't necessarily see TC's
map presenting hard and fast borders rather
than territorial approximations. Maybe he'll
tell us more about that map from its source?
quote:Yes, force of habit on my part. When I refer to the archaeological groups I tend to use the 'old' labels. But you are right that it is more accurate to use the labels that the people or at least Egyptians used. Wawat is more accurate than "C Group".
Also I don't see the need for A or C groups
anymore. We know the former is TaSeti and
the latter Wawat. Same for Nubia when talking
about peoples or polities when the specifics
keep us from confusion. For me, Nubia is best
reserved for geography to describe extreme
south Egypt and northern Sudan or modern
peoples known as Nubians.
quote:Point taken.
The following addressed not so much to DJ as
to the forum. Academia translates (Ta)Nehesu
as Nubia(ns). Problem is there were Nehesu
living well beyond Nubia. Medjay and certain
Intyw (Antiu/Troglodytes) for instance.
quote:Oh, my point wasn't that C Group was synonymous with the Temeh but that there was a long and intimate history between them usually in the form of trade and certain cultural styles and borrowings between them which is probably why some past scholars postulated they were one and the same.
This brings me around to Temehu and C Group.
Once it's understood Wawat including Wawat's
provinces, Irtjet, Satju, etc., was peopled by
C Groupers then clearly Temehu have not a
thing to do with being C Groupers. As far as my
researching has lead me, at no time during the
history of Ancient Egypt were Temehu ever Nehesu.
code:The oldest Sheba is a continental African province and lineage. The next
(Ham -> Cush -> Ra`amah -> Sheba and Dedan)
(Shem - -> `Eber -> Joktan -> Sheba)
(Abraham -> Jokshan -> Sheba and Dedan)
(Abraham -> Midian)
quote:Yes, there is a trans-Red Sea duality in TN"K too.
Originally posted by Tukuler:
As early as the days the story was first written by some Hebrew author,
Sheba was a Two Shore empire spanning the straits of the Bab el Mandeb
to include the Horn of Africa shore and the Arabian Peninsula shore.
There are three mentions of Sheba in B*reshiyth. One is in the linguistic
territorial lineage of Hham. Hham (hot) indicates continental Africa. The
other two mentions place Sheba in the linguistic territorial lineage of Shem,
the belt of land parallel to the east Mediterranean shore, the Arabian peninsula
and on to the eastward.
code:The oldest Sheba is a continental African province and lineage. The next
(Ham -> Cush -> Ra`amah -> Sheba and Dedan)
(Shem - -> `Eber -> Joktan -> Sheba)
(Abraham -> Jokshan -> Sheba and Dedan)
(Abraham -> Midian)
Sheba is Arabian peninsular as is the last and most recent Sheba.
For more see The Queen of Sheba and Solomon
and Arabian Kush and The Kushite as paragon
quote:.
Originally posted by Akachi:
Tukler.. he has been here for over a decade, and is unwilling to disclose his opinion on the origins of Niger-Congo speakers and their context throughout the African story. What is wrong with that man?!
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
Posted earlier, now zoomed and edited, this map shows a pre-historic route to Lake Chad from the Upper Nile Valley.
The same route in hemi-continental perspective probably goes back at least to the Sudan Neolithic and last Green Sahara phases.
The eastern terminals Dongola/Sennar to Darfur and
Kordofan and then on to Lake Tschad and from there
most likely up to Bilma for the track to the Niger's
Bend and terminating at the Senegal may have some
relation to the spread of the Niger-Kordofanian super
phylum.
That is the "Sahel Route" established from times
pre-historic and still in use today. It would've
been used by Classical African Civilization folk
to travel for trade or migration to West Africa.
The part of this route as far as Lake Tschad may also
have to do with the two Afrisan phyla Chadic and
Tamazight and maybe the Nilo-Saharan super phyum.
Above is the map I simplified and added the red undercores to,
and on which you can follow the rest of the route from Kukiya
on to the Senegal as well as see all the major historic trade routes
from the Savannah to the Meditteranean and from the Red Sea to
the Atlantic Ocean.
quote:I believe Yam was in the western desert in Darfur-Ennedi region rather than southern Sudan
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:-- Julien Cooper, 'Reconsidering the Location of Yam', Journal of the American Research Center in Egypt 2012
An interesting, albeit puzzling, factor of Yam is its absence in documents, save topographical lists, after the beginning of the Middle Kingdom...There are a variety of speculative and hypothetical scenarios one can put forth to suggest its elimination from the textual record. The equation of Irm and ImA suggested by Priese is one possible scenario; therefore Yam no longer existed under the same name. Another possibility is that the toponym ceased to be relevant to the Egyptians... A more compelling scenario is that the desiccation of water sources had rendered access to Yam impossible, or possibly the changing ecology threatened Yam itself.
Furthermore, the absence of Yam in texts in the Twelfth Dynasty and later would concord well with the abandonment of the Abu Ballas trail in the Middle Kingdom,which perhaps was also rendered impassable from the changing ecology...This argument of course does not aim to suggest, with any certainty or precision, a location for Yam within a finite area. Rather it argues that a Western Desert location of Yam, near the Gebel Uweinat, or Ennedi, concords well with much of the textual and archaeological evidence.Broadly, the evidence suggests that Yam could be approached by going west and south from Egypt, via the oases and Abu Bal-las trail, or south and then west via the Nubian Nile and North West Sudan.The evidence is certainly too ambiguous to support a Nubian location and to construct arguments based on this location would be hazardous and premature. Such previous attempts at localising Yam reflect a broader tendency to place many unknown “southern” toponyms on the Nubian Nile, with little or no evidence specifically favoring such locations. Like the Nubian Nile, the Western Desert was also part of a complex trade net-work in the Third Millennium B.C.This western theatre may have been the origin of many of Egypt’s exotic imports, which hitherto were only expected from the Levant, Nubia, and Punt.
quote:J.A. Ilevbare, Potential contact between the central valley of the Nile and the River Niger area in the first seven centuries of the Christian era, Libya Antiqua
Perhaps the earliest documentary evidence for trade between Cush and Därfür comes from inscriptions on the tombs of Egyptian kings of the Vlth Dynasty. In their time, especially under Mernere and Pepi II, caravan leaders made several journeys south-westwards to the kingdom of Yam and the land of Temeh which Arkell identifies with Därfür and Tama respectively.
(Harkhuf's)escort from Yam demonstrates the existence of regular contact between Tama, Därfür and Ennedi on the one hand and Cush on the other.
Seven hundred years later, another Egyptian king, Tuthmosis IV, raided the territories of the Irm, Gwrss and Trk, names which are associated with Därfür. Egyptian kings of the XXVth Dynasty who originated from Cush, would have consolidated trade with that region which they may have annexed to Cush.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Yam neighbored Pygmy territory or perhaps had Pygmies living in its southern area.
quote:S. Adam, J. Vercoutter, The importance of Nubia: a link between Central Africa and the Mediterranean, General History Of Africa II
The Egyptians were already in touch with Africa south of the Sahara, and that the 'Nubian Corridor' played an important part in these contacts. Under Pepi II, an Egyptian expedition brought back from the distant south a 'dwarf for the sacred dance'. The word used to describe this person is deneg, whereas the usual term employed for a dwarf in the hieroglyphic texts is nemu. We might well wonder and the answer is likely to be positive, whether deneg refers in fact to a Pygmy.
If this is so... the Egyptians of the Old Kingdom must have been in direct or indirect contact with this race from the equatorial forest. Even if the Pygmies' habitat extended much farther north than it does today, which is possible and even likely, because of the different climate during the third millennium, this area would still have been very far to the south of Nubia. We can therefore conclude that the Egyptians of the Old Kingdom had contacts with Central Africa, and that Nubia and its inhabitants did much to make such contacts possible.
quote:Here's an older source from David O'Connor: The Locations of Yam and Kush and Their Historical Implications
Sometime in the early Sixth Dynasty, Egyptian records indicate contact with specific regions and peoples located to the south, some previously known only by the larger geographic designation Ta-Seti, or Land of the Bow, or Ta-Nehes, Land of the Nubian. While these appear as names for the first time, it is clear that they were well established, and had been in place for some time. They occur both in contexts where persons were assigned to regulate conracts16 and where there was active fieldwork involved, notably the recruiting of soldiers and travel to foreign lands.
The places and peoples have occasioned a good deal of discussion with various locations being proposed for some of them, while ochers are well-known and located. At this point we deal with a tendency in Egyptology to underestimate the reach of Egyptian engagement in Africa, which has recently been confronted by evidence chat the country called was truly far away. Following are the more important lands, as mentioned in the principal documents, of Weni and Harkhuf, which give some geographical perspective:
WAwAt: Later established as the name for Lower
Nubia from the First to the Second Cataract, it probably roughly corresponded to that territory.
IrTt: Linked in order with and in a single polity by the time of Harkhuf's Third Journey, it may have been the southernmost of the three, although the order of and may not be geographical in relation to Egypt.
SaTjw: Linked in a polity with Irtt Wawat.
Makhr: Mentioned once, reached from the Elephantine road, apparently above and Satjw.
Trrs: Mentioned once, reached from the Elephantine road, apparently above Irtt and Satjw.
Kaaw: Mentioned only by Weni, its relationships are uncertain.
Tmh: Associated later with Libya, it was the objective ofa campaign by the chief of Iam, which Harkhuf interrupted.
Iam: As che main objective of Harkhuf's expeditions, Yam has received considerable discussion. It has been assigned locations from the southern Libyan Desert (oases) to Kerma, to the Isle of Meroe, based on Harkhuf's statement that it took a long time to get there and return to Egypt and Harkhuf's mention that he was exploring a road to Yam in one instance, taking the Elephantine Road in another, and thirdly the Wehat (oasis) road. Some fairly elaborate and well-formed estimates involving time, distance and original starting points have been brought to bear on the question, a number of them starting Harkhuf from Memphis by donkey in order to use up the seven or eight months required.
Medja: Well-known from Old through the New Kingdoms, Medja is widely associated with the Eastern Desert. For the Old Kingdom, scholars have argued variously for a location east of Upper Egypt or as far south as the Second Cataract. If the Egyptians had been faring as far south and
west as Darfur in the west, and as far south as Punt in the east-both difficult, time-consuming, and hazardous journeys-- is there any reason to limit Medja so severely? Later, Sobeknakht II recounts that Kush mustered forces from Medjay and Punt, which would indicate that they were adjacent. This would imply chat Medja had much the same location as the Bedja do today, occupying the Eastern Desert from about the Wadi Hamamat to the Ethiopian highlands. Given that this area is larger than the Levant, diversity is to be expected.
quote:
The discovery of an inscription at Jebl Uweinat gives a reason to reconsider the geographical location of the country of Yam. This has to take into account the relationship of Yam to the area of Wawat in Lower Nubia and to the Tjemehu people in the Western Desert of Egypt. Two centres are proposed for Yam, the fortifications called “Djedefre’s Water Mountain” and “Gala el Sheikh”. Both are characterized by so called water mountain symbols. The people of Yam were vassals of the Egyptians and assisted them to get into contact with other people between west and south. This includes the people of Tekhebet, who may have been the builders of the compass graves in the Tibesti and its neighbourhood.
quote:
Cooper (2012) suspects Tekhebet, a suggestion by Clayton et al. (2008:131) next, near Jebel Uweinat. He places Jam in the area between Jebel Uweinat and the Paleo-Lakes in NW Sudan, of which Nukheila/Merga remains to this day (2012: Fig. 1). He thinks that on his second journey Harkhuf entered the territory of Nukheila from Elephantine (Aswan) via Kurkur, Dunqul, Selima and Laqiya Arba'in. The return journey would then be via Wadi Hariq ("burnt Wadi", so called by archaeologists because of strong burn marks and fried sediments; Lange, 2007; Jesse, 2007: Figs. 6-7) to the Nile at Kerma or alternatively further south along the Wadi Howar gone to the Nile at Old Dongola. From there the route went down the Nile to near Amarna West and then back to Elephantine.
quote:
The Egyptians had several terms for people of short stature, dng and nmw (= nemu). Both pygmies and chondrodystrophic dwarfs were depicted. They were dancers, companions of their masters with dogs and monkeys, valets. The pathological dwarfs were also goldsmiths. In the Middle Kingdom, the pathological dwarfs were only referred to as nmw. Later, dwarves were replaced by the Bes figures.
The Egyptian word dng for "dwarf" is cognate with the analogous words dink, dinki (Cushitic), dinkō (Omotic), dank (Amharic), denki-t…
Because of the similarity of the Egyptian term dng (deneg) for the dwarf with the term in southern languages, because of the parallels in their meaning in kingship, and because of geographical accessibility, the dwarf Harkhoof probably originated in southern Ethiopia and was acquired through middlemen.
quote:
The Jam belonged to the Nehesyu, the southern peoples. They were known in Egypt at the latest by the time of Merenre (2283-2278 BC), i.e. before the advance of dark-skinned people northwards in the Nile valley. They were probably racially related to the Egyptians, like the people of Group A. This may also apply to their language.
quote:
If we accept that the land of Jam lay beyond Wawat in present-day Nubia as seen from Egypt, and that no other sites than those indicated were touched on the way there (O'Conner, 1986), the location of Jam is Wadi el Qa'ab. This is not a wadi in the sense of a dry river, but rather a depression running roughly north-south parallel to the Nile valley along its western bank, roughly from the geographic latitude of Kerma to a latitude south of Dongola.
quote:
How did the jam people come to Jebel Uweinat?They probably supported the Egyptians in laying out the donkey path from Balat to Jebel Uweinat, or they laid out the western part themselves beforehand. About 50-80 km away to the E and SE of Jebel Uweinat there are some isolated flat-topped hills that have a ring at the top like a simple fortification. One or more may have been temporary camp sites for the jam people. A direct connection from Jebel Uweinat to Gala el Sheikh is difficult to imagine, since the waterless routes are probably too long for donkeys. Donkeys with loads are documented in the rock art at Jebel Uweinat.
The area between Selima and Nukheila may also have belonged to Jam or inhabited by other peoples.
This speculation would allocate a very large area to the people of Jam. The connecting link are the water mountain symbols. The mortarless construction method is not specific to the Jam people, as it has also been used on other structures, e.g. at Gala Abu Ahmed with a trapezoidal plan in Wadi Howar and at the square fort at El Kueibi about 35 km SW of Gala el Sheikh.
quote:- Berger, F. (2018): Neue Überlegungen zur geographischen Lage von Jam
Tekhebet is not otherwise mentioned in Egyptian literature. The country was probably remote. The compass tombs can possibly be assigned to its inhabitants. Figure 16 shows such a situation. The donkey trail from Balat to Jebel Uweinat is marked. This interpretation can only be proven if further Egyptian inscriptions or archaeological documents are found that confirm it.
quote:- Bruce Beyer Williams, The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Nubia, 2020
For some time, Kerma was thought to be the country of Yam, ultimate destination of the expeditions by the Elephantine governors in the late Old Kingdom, but with the discovery of Mentuhotep II’s inscription at Jebel Uweinat this important place must have been located far to the west, at least in Darfur, or even modern Chad. Instead, Old Kingdom rockgraffiti at El-Kab Oasis seem to indicate that the Dongola Reach area may have been on a different route, most likely the return road from Yam, making a kind of triangle, with the outward journey using the Abu Ballas trail, and the heavily laden return using the Wadi Howar to the Nile area and northward. Several names appear for the Nubian region in the records, and only Wawat, designating Lower Nubia, is known. Of the others, perhaps Irtjet, the most prominent, would indicate the Kerma area, but that is only a guess. If so, then by the third journey of Harkhuf, the region from Kerma to the First Cataract had one ruler. More important, since the records refer to several territories and rulers, it appears likely that authority in the KA culture area became divided, while Wawat, the territory north of the Second Cataract, was apparently more united. It should be noted, however, that if the great temple (Deffufa) in the city at Kerma was first built in KA, it was already monumental and may already have been the leading power. Thus, already, large districts south of Egypt were consolidated politically. In addition, however, Egyptians claimed to have campaigned in all the Nilotic Nubian regions and Yam, surely an immense field of political engagement and projecting power. It is telling that when Weni assembled an army to attack the Sand-Dwellers (Asiatics), he did so with troops from Medjay, Yam, Wawat, Irtjet, Kaau, and Tjemehu—indicating a wide reach of power into the south, east, and west—and that Harkhuf used a troop of Yam to overawe the rulers of the Nile valley on one of his returns.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
...there are records that the natives in pre-Kerma (pre-Kushite) Central Sudan was hostile to Egypt so Harkhuf and other traders could not pass through there and I don't think Temehu territory stretched that far south.
quote:- Thomas Schneider, Language Contact in Ancient Egypt, 2023
The Tjemehu-Libyans are therefore located to the west of Upper Egypt where the recently documented Abu Ballas caravan trail led from the oasis of Dakhla to the high plateau of the Gilf Kebir and the Jebel Uweinat and maybe further into the Chad basin of Central Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by BrandonP:
If we are to locate Yam in the desert west of the Sudanese Nile, I really want to see if we can find any archaeological traces of their culture.
quote:A.J Arkell held many excavations in the region but more so related to Kanem-Borno, Ouaddaï, the Keira dynasty etc although he did unearth some things pertaining to Nubia. Wether texts referring to Yam had even been discovered during his work idk
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Unfortunately most of the archaeology is confined to the river valley areas, not to mention that military conflict in the the western deserts of Sudan (like Darfur) make archaeology impossible at the moment.
quote:There are the compass graves as mentioned above which may be associated with either Yam or Tekhbet but they've never been excavated and there doesn't seem to be any literature on them at all
Originally posted by BrandonP:
Surely there are ruins, graves, and artifacts of interest in that region.
