In this thread I would like to discuss the relationship between tropical adaptation, the pineal gland, melatonin, sleep/wake cycles, dream/trance and Procedural memory (Knowledge or Gnosis). I would also like to explore Human Physiological Adaptations to the Arctic Climate and pineal calcification.
QUESTIONS:
1. What is the relationship between tropical adaptation and the pineal gland?
2. Is there a positive correlation between melatonin and deeper levels of sleep and dream-state/trance?
3. Do we learn from our dreams and what was the relevence of dream/trance interpretation in ancient African society?
4. What impact has pineal calcification had on northern Europeans in relation to query 3 above?
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3. Do we learn from our dreams and what was the relevence of dream/trance interpretation in ancient African society?
Evergreen Writes:
On this point I would particularly like to understand the role of the so-called Shamanistic Priest in Egypt and the ritual of dream/trance inducement. Did AE priests practice dream/trance inducement? Was there ritualization around the sleep/wake cycles of the king that correlate with the Osirian Cycle? If so, did the priests guide the king through the Duat in order to learn and master time (the future/fate)?
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3. Do we learn from our dreams and what was the relevence of dream/trance interpretation in ancient African society?
Evergreen Writes:
On this point I would particularly like to understand the role of the so-called Shamanistic Priest in Egypt and the ritual of dream/trance inducement. Did AE priests practice dream/trance inducement? Was there ritualization around the sleep/wake cycles of the king that correlate with the Osirian Cycle? If so, did the priests guide the king through the Duat in order to learn and master time (the future/fate)?
Evergreen Writes:
The sacred journey in dynastic Egypt: shamanistic trance in the context of the narcotic water lily and the mandrake
Journal of Psychoactive-Drugs 1989 Jan-Mar; 21(1): 61-75
Contemporary reference to the role of water lilies and mandrakes (Nymphaea and Mandragora, respectively) in ancient Egyptian healing, and subsequent research on the iconography of the water lily in Mayan shamanistic ritual, suggest the possible importance of these plants as adjuncts to shamanistic healing in dynastic Egypt. Although the usual interpretation of the water lily and the mandrake has been that of a part of ritual mourning, the present article revises this notion. Based on an extensive review of these two powerful narcotic (i.e., hypnotic) plants in iconography and ritual, it is argued that the dynastic Egyptians had developed a form of shamanistic trance induced by these two plants and used it in medicine as well as healing rituals. Analysis of the ritual and sacred iconography of dynastic Egypt, as seen on stelae, in magical papyri, and on vessels, indicates that these people possessed a profound knowledge of plant lore and altered states of consciousness. The abundant data indicate that the shamanistic priest, who was highly placed in the stratified society, guided the souls of the living and dead, provided for the transmutation of souls into other bodies and the personification of plants as possessed by human spirits, as well as performing other shamanistic activities.
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Is African Ancestor Veneration a legitimate form of knowledge or mysticism and "Mumbo-jumbo"?
Evergreen Posts:
Dreaming Ancestors in Eastern Carolina Journal of Black Studies 2003; 33; 545
"Although many Africans enslaved in the United States came from societies in which ancestors were venerated, until recently most of the literature on the slave religious life has not examined this dimension. The groundbreaking research of Sterling Stuckey (1987) on the significance of the ring shout demonstrated that enslaved Africans in the United States did continue to venerate their ancestors. Subsequent studies of religious beliefs and practices corroborate the existence of ancestor veneration among enslaved Africans (Creel, 1988; Thompson, 1990).1 However, one dimension of ancestor veneration, the ancestral dream, has received very little scholarly attention. This study examines the ancestral dream and demonstrates its role in maintaining family stability among contemporary African Americans. Presently, many descendants of enslaved Africans residing in this country consider oneiric information a legitimate source of knowledge about the world they inhabit, especially the ancestral dream. Based on an analysis of dream narratives collected in two African American communities in eastern North Carolina, ancestors who appear in dreams are believed to communicate requests and advice to their kin. And most African Americans find it difficult to ignore these communiqués. The ancestral dream is one of numerous forms of continuous revelations that enslaved Africans transplanted to the Americas (Thornton, 1992). However, Africanderived forms of continuous revelation, such as spirit possession, divination, conjuring, and prophecy, have sparked the interest of scholars more than the ancestral dreams."
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posted
Many non black Asians from Indonesians to Siberians also practiced ancestor veneration, and there is evidence that ancient Europeans did as well. How is such a custom all of a sudden directly linked to physiology including skin color??
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Many non black Asians from Indonesians to Siberians also practiced ancestor veneration, and there is evidence that ancient Europeans did as well. How is such a custom all of a sudden directly linked to physiology including skin color??
Evergreen Writes:
The relationship is clearly delineated in the original post. Ancestor Veneration is linked to trance/dream state and the **ability** to enter deeper levels of trance/dream state is enhanced in African people compared to Europeans.
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posted
Evergreen, I used to respect you but all this stuff about Europeans being less able to enter a trance state sounds almost racist to me. How would you react if someone were to argue that Europeans were more capable of entering said state?
posted
On the Pineal Gland link I found it to be interesting and informative. It, however, ended too abruptly to suit my taste. Of course it was obvious why it did—gettin' a little too hot in the kitchen you might say.
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Evergreen, since i you mention this ability to be a function of the right brain in Mystery Solver's link, do you think this correlation can be applied to some if not all left handed individuals as well(since most left handed individuals are most if not completely dependent upon the brain's right hemisphere)? Is this ability to enter deeper states of consciousness solely dependent upon the pineal gland, or can the dominance of right hemispheric thinking have an effect as well?
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: Evergreen, I used to respect you but all this stuff about Europeans being less able to enter a trance state sounds almost racist to me.
Dear Tyrann0saurus,
Instead of attacking me personally why not apply a crticial mind to my position. Eurocentrists often use the reverse-racism charge when the data-points don't support the Eurocentric worldview.
In many ancient cultures water is symbolic to the subconscious mind. Consider the Baptism rituals of the Christian belief system. Like water the trance/dream state rejuvenates the human psyche. The word rejuvenate derives from the Latin base: re – again and juvenis - young. Melatonin and its derivative dream/trance processes rejuvenate and protect the African human against aging diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease.
The basis of African ritual is to reconnect with ourselves through communion with our ancestors. This knowledge model is known as ancestor veneration. The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare which means to reconnect. We reconnect with our ancestors via the channels of dream/trance state and this knowledge model is expressed as intuition (to learn from within).
Man, Know Thy Self.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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^ And these are just couple we know about! There are various other trance-state spritual customs practiced by Europeans that were only briefly mentioned or referenced to in historical records.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen:
quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: Evergreen, I used to respect you but all this stuff about Europeans being less able to enter a trance state sounds almost racist to me.
Dear Tyrann0saurus,
Instead of attacking me personally why not apply a crticial mind to my position. Eurocentrists often use the reverse-racism charge when the data-points don't support the Eurocentric worldview.
In many ancient cultures water is symbolic to the subconscious mind. Consider the Baptism rituals of the Christian belief system. Like water the trance/dream state rejuvenates the human psyche. The word rejuvenate derives from the Latin base: re – again and juvenis - young. Melatonin and its derivative dream/trance processes rejuvenate and protect the African human against aging diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease.
The basis of African ritual is to reconnect with ourselves through communion with our ancestors. This knowledge model is known as ancestor veneration. The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare which means to reconnect. We reconnect with our ancestors via the channels of dream/trance state and this knowledge model is expressed as intuition (to learn from within).
Man, Know Thy Self.
^ I don't think T-rex was expressing anything Eurocentric or trying to attribute something to Europeans so much as questioning how all of the cultural traits as well as biological/physiological are associated with African peoples or black peoples alone?
Your thesis is that customs such as dream/trance states are associated with Africans since paleolithic times with the first OOA migrations, but where is it that it remained among melanoderm peoples of the tropics and not among leucoderm peoples outside the tropics??!
Trance/dream-states are the common practice among shamanic customs, and shamans are found all throughout Eurasia from East Asia and Siberia all the way into Europe.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE] I don't think T-rex was expressing anything Eurocentric or trying to attribute something to Europeans so much as questioning how all of the cultural traits as well as biological/physiological are associated with African peoples or black peoples alone?
Evergreen Writes:
T-rex made a statement, claiming that I was a Racist. He did not pose a question as you misleadingly suggest above nor did he challenge the validity of my position.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE]Your thesis is that customs such as dream/trance states are associated with Africans since paleolithic times with the first OOA migrations, but where is it that it remained among melanoderm peoples of the tropics and not among leucoderm peoples outside the tropics??!
Evergreen Writes:
I never claimed that Blacks were the only people who can enter dream/trance state. Please carefully read my thesis before claiming to understand my thesis. What I did claim was that Blacks have enhanced potential with these practices because of increased melatonin. Do you deny this? If so, please provide your evidence.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf: Assuming this is true:
Evergreen, since i you mention this ability to be a function of the right brain in Mystery Solver's link, do you think this correlation can be applied to some if not all left handed individuals as well(since most left handed individuals are most if not completely dependent upon the brain's right hemisphere)? Is this ability to enter deeper states of consciousness solely dependent upon the pineal gland, or can the dominance of right hemispheric thinking have an effect as well?
Evergreen Writes:
Nur23, your question is an interesting one. The relationship between the Pineal Gland and brain hemisphere imbalance is an open question. The nature versus nurture question in relation to the Ice Age impact on European behvioural psychiatry has been little explored. Diop’s Northern/Southern cradle theory deserves further investigation as well. If intuition has been impaired on a biological basis systemizer capabilities may have evolved in an over compensating fashion. Many interesting articles have been produced on the correlation between Engineers and Autism. Of course we now understand the relationship between the Pineal Gland and Autism.
Evergreen Posts:
DIOP'S TWO CRADLE THEORY FROM "THE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF CIVILIZATION" AND "CULTURAL UNITY" CHARACTERISTIS OF THE TWO CRADLES
(Determined by Environment after a separation during the Ice Age.)
Northern Cradle-Greek Model 1. Bareness of resources. 2. Nomadic-hunting (piracy) 3. Ferocious, warlike nature with spirit of survival. 4. Patriarchal family. 5. Debasement / enslavement of women. 6. City state (fort) 7. Xenophobia. 8. Parochialism. 9. Individualism. 10. Moral solitude. 11. Disgust for existence, pessimism. 12. Literature favors tragedy.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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DIOP'S TWO CRADLE THEORY FROM "THE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF CIVILIZATION" AND "CULTURAL UNITY" CHARACTERISTIS OF THE TWO CRADLES
(Determined by Environment after a separation during the Ice Age.)
Northern Cradle-Greek Model 1. Bareness of resources. 2. Nomadic-hunting (piracy) 3. Ferocious, warlike nature with spirit of survival. 4. Patriarchal family. 5. Debasement / enslavement of women. 6. City state (fort) 7. Xenophobia. 8. Parochialism. 9. Individualism. 10. Moral solitude. 11. Disgust for existence, pessimism. 12. Literature favors tragedy.
Evergreen Posts:
December 18, 2007 Mind Brought on by Darkness, Disorder Needs Light By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D. Correction Appended
In a few days, the winter solstice will plunge us into the longest and darkest night of the year. Is it any surprise that we humans respond with a holiday season of relentless cheer and partying?
It doesn’t work for everyone, though. As daylight wanes, millions begin to feel depressed, sluggish and socially withdrawn. They also tend to sleep more, eat more and have less sex. By spring or summer the symptoms abate, only to return the next autumn.
Once regarded skeptically by the experts, seasonal affective disorder, SAD for short, is now well established. Epidemiological studies estimate that its prevalence in the adult population ranges from 1.4 percent (Florida) to 9.7 percent (New Hampshire).
Researchers have noted a similarity between SAD symptoms and seasonal changes in other mammals, particularly those that sensibly pass the dark winter hibernating in a warm hole. Animals have brain circuits that sense day length and control the timing of seasonal behavior. Do humans do the same?
In 2001, Dr. Thomas A. Wehr and Dr. Norman E. Rosenthal, psychiatrists at the National Institute of Mental Health, ran an intriguing experiment. They studied two patient groups for 24 hours in winter and summer, one group with seasonal depression and one without.
A major biological signal tracking seasonal sunlight changes is melatonin, a brain chemical turned on by darkness and off by light. Dr. Wehr and Dr. Rosenthal found that the patients with seasonal depression had a longer duration of nocturnal melatonin secretion in the winter than in the summer, just as with other mammals with seasonal behavior.
Why did the normal patients show no seasonal change in melatonin secretion? One possibility is exposure to industrial light, which can suppress melatonin. Perhaps by keeping artificial light constant during the year, we can suppress the “natural” variation in melatonin experienced by SAD patients.
There might have been a survival advantage, a few hundred thousand years back, to slowing down and conserving energy — sleeping and eating more — in winter. Could people with seasonal depression be the unlucky descendants of those well-adapted hominids?
Regardless, no one with SAD has to wait for spring and summer to feel better. “Bright light in the early morning is a powerful, fast and effective treatment for seasonal depression,” said Dr. Rosenthal, now a professor of clinical psychiatry at the Georgetown Medical School and author of “Winter Blues” (Guilford, 1998). “Light is a nutrient of sorts for these patients.”
The timing of phototherapy is critical. “To determine the best time for light therapy, you need to know about a person’s individual circadian rhythm,” said Michael Terman, director of the Center for Light Treatment and Biological Rhythms at the Columbia University Medical Center.
People are most responsive to light therapy early in the morning, just when melatonin secretion begins to wane, about eight to nine hours after the nighttime surge begins.
How can the average person figure that out without a blood test? By a simple questionnaire that assesses “morningness” or “eveningness” and that strongly correlates with plasma melatonin levels, according to Dr. Terman.
The nonprofit Center for Environmental Therapeutics has a questionnaire on its Web site (www.cet.org).
Once you know the optimal time, the standard course is 30 minutes of fluorescent soft-white light at 10,000 lux a day. You may discover that you are most photoresponsive very early, depending on whether you are a lark (early to bed and early to rise) or an owl.
The effects of light therapy are fast, usually four to seven days, compared with antidepressants, which can take four to six weeks to work.
For treatment while sleeping, there is dawn simulation. You get your own 90-minute sunrise from a light on a timer that starts with starlight intensity and ends with the equivalent of shaded sun. This is less effective than bright light.
It may sound suspiciously close to snake oil, but the newest promising therapy for SAD is negative air ionization. Dr. Terman found it serendipitously when he used a negative ion generator as a placebo control for bright light, only to discover that high-flow negative ions had positive effects on mood.
Heated and air-conditioned environments are low in negative ion content. Humid places, forests and the shore are loaded with them. It makes you wonder whether there is something, after all, to those tales about the mistral and all those hot dry winds, full of bad positive ions, that supposedly drive people mad.
Of course, you might decide to drop the light and ions and head for a sunny, tropical vacation.
Richard A. Friedman is a professor of psychiatry at Weill Cornell Medical College.
Correction: December 19, 2007
An illustration with the Mind column in Science Times on Tuesday, about seasonal affective disorder, carried an incorrect credit. The artist was Ward Schumaker, not Vivienne Flesher.
Evergreen Writes:
More study is called for to understand the nature/nurture interchange of humans who evolved in Ice Age Europe.
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