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Last Updated: Thursday, 25 October 2007, 18:07 GMT 19:07 UK Neanderthals 'were flame-haired' By Paul Rincon Science reporter, Murcia, Spain
Neanderthal genetics is revealing surprises
Some Neanderthals were probably redheads, a DNA study has shown.
Writing in Science journal, a team of researchers extracted DNA from remains of two Neanderthals and retrieved part of an important gene called MC1R.
In modern people, a change - or mutation - in this gene causes red hair, but, until now, no one knew what hair colour our extinct relatives had.
By analysing a version of the gene in Neanderthals, scientists found that they also have sported fiery locks.
"We found a variant of MC1R in Neanderthals which is not present in modern humans, but which causes an effect on the hair similar to that seen in modern redheads," said lead author Carles Lalueza-Fox, assistant professor in genetics at the University of Barcelona.
Though once thought to have been our ancestors, the Neanderthals are now considered by many to be an evolutionary dead end.
They appear in the fossil record about 400,000 years ago and, at their peak, these squat, physically powerful hunters dominated a wide range spanning Britain and Iberia in the west, Israel in the south and Siberia in the east.
Our own species, Homo sapiens, evolved in Africa, and displaced the Neanderthals after entering Europe about 40,000 years ago. The last known evidence of Neanderthals comes from Gibraltar and is dated to between 28,000 and 24,000 years ago.
Selective pressure
Until relatively recently, scientists could turn only to fossils in order to learn what Neanderthals were like. But recent pioneering work has allowed scientists to study DNA from their bones.
In Neanderthals, there was probably the whole range of hair colour we see today in modern European populations, from dark to blond right through to red Dr Carles Lalueza-Fox
Genetics could shed light on aspects of Neanderthal biology that are not preserved in fossils. These include external appearance - such as hair, skin and eye colour - cell chemistry and perhaps even cognitive ability.
This will help scientists address key questions, such as why we inherited the Earth and not them.
Genes for skin colour and hair colour are obvious early targets for scientists engaged in these efforts.
In modern people from the southern hemisphere, dark skin and hair is needed to guard against skin cancer caused by strong UV radiation from the Sun.
By contrast, pale skin - along with red or blond hair - appears to be the product of lower levels of sunlight present in more northerly climes such as Europe.
"Once you go out of Africa, the selective pressure from UV radiation disappears. So any mutation that falls into the MC1R gene is allowed to survive and spread through a population," said Dr Lalueza-Fox, speaking at the Climate and Humans conference in Murcia, Spain.
But people with fair skin are able to generate more vitamin D, which may have given them an evolutionary advantage in northern regions.
Altered chemistry
The latest research suggests that similar adaptations were evolved independently by Neanderthals and modern Europeans in response to similar environmental circumstances.
All humans carry the MC1R gene, but modern redheads possess an altered, or mutated, version of it.
This rare variant doesn't work as effectively as more common forms of the gene. This loss of function alters the chemistry of the cell, producing red hair and pale skin.
In the latest study, the authors retrieved fragments of the MC1R sequence from Neanderthal bones found at Monte Lessini in Italy and from remains unearthed at El Sidron cave in northern Spain. DNA is notoriously difficult to obtain from very old specimens such as these.
"This was a bit like finding a needle in a genomic haystack. I couldn't believe we found it the first time. I asked my friends to repeat the results. Eventually the variant was found in two separate Neanderthals in three different labs," said Dr Lalueza-Fox.
Unique variant
The researchers found that Neanderthals carried a unique variant of the gene not present in modern humans.
Reconstruction of Neanderthal man and boy (Image: AFP/Getty) Until now, information on hair colour has been sparse
In order to test what effect it had on hair and skin colour, the researchers inserted the Neanderthal variant into a human cell called a melanocyte.
Melanocytes produce the dark pigment called melanin which gives skin, hair and eyes their colour.
The researchers saw the same loss of function in the Neanderthal form of MC1R as they did in modern variants of the gene which produce red hair.
"In Neanderthals, there was probably the whole range of hair colour we see today in modern European populations, from dark to blond right through to red," Dr Lalueza-Fox told the BBC News website.
To Dr Lalueza-Fox, the observation that the Neanderthal version of the gene is not found in modern humans suggests they did not interbreed with each other, as some scientists have proposed.
Primitive speech
Dr Clive Finlayson, director of the Gibraltar Museum, commented: "It's extremely interesting - it makes us understand a bit more about who the Neanderthals were.
"It suggests there may be a propensity towards the reduction of melanin in populations away from the tropics. If the Neanderthal and modern variants are different, it may be a good example of parallel, or convergent evolution - a similar evolutionary response to the same situation."
"Neanderthal genetics is going to give us a lot more information. This is the tip of the iceberg."
In a separate study, published in the journal Current Biology, Dr Lalueza-Fox and colleagues extracted the DNA sequence for a gene called FoxP2 from Neanderthals.
Modern people have several changes in this gene that are absent in our relatives the chimpanzees. This suggests that FoxP2 may have been an important gene in the evolution of language, something which separates us from the great apes.
The researchers found that Neanderthals shared these key mutations in FoxP2 with modern humans, suggesting they had some of the prerequisites for language and speech.
An ongoing project to sequence the entire Neanderthal genome was recently hit by the discovery that samples had been contaminated with modern human DNA.
posted
Was reading the artcle on-line myself. . . beat me to it Undercover
Still don’t understand the fascination with Red and Blond hair… . . and Neanderthals. Note the reflection shot.
Nevertheless – Key points I take away is what is said on this forum.
1. Can’t see how they could have been pale skinned since Leucoderms arrived about 6kya 2. Note the “once you leave Africa” comment 3. “Melanocytes produce the dark pigment called melanin which gives skin, hair and eyes their colour”.. . .So I assume dark skin, hair and eyes are somehow related .. Djehuti? One of your argument is there is no relation. 4. This was interesting – “An ongoing project to sequence the entire Neanderthal genome was recently hit by the discovery that samples had been contaminated with modern human DNA”. Maybe that is where the redhead came from on Ramses LOL
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Dark skin, eyes and hair go together. AE coould of NEVER of had light skin, hair or eyes. Never accepted the Henna explaination. It either was down right fraud OR contamination. There are no redheads(Naturally) in that part of the world.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Was reading the artcle on-line myself. . . beat me to it Undercover
Still don’t understand the fascination with Red and Blond hair… . . and Neanderthals. Note the reflection shot.
Nevertheless – Key points I take away is what is said on this forum.
1. Can’t see how they could have been pale skinned since Leucoderms arrived about 6kya 2. Note the “once you leave Africa” comment 3. “Melanocytes produce the dark pigment called melanin which gives skin, hair and eyes their colour”.. . .So I assume dark skin, hair and eyes are somehow related .. Djehuti? One of your argument is there is no relation. 4. This was interesting – “An ongoing project to sequence the entire Neanderthal genome was recently hit by the discovery that samples had been contaminated with modern human DNA”. Maybe that is where the redhead came from on Ramses LOL
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Was reading the artcle on-line myself. . . beat me to it Undercover
Still don’t understand the fascination with Red and Blond hair… . . and Neanderthals. Note the reflection shot.
Nevertheless – Key points I take away is what is said on this forum.
1. Can’t see how they could have been pale skinned since Leucoderms arrived about 6kya 2. Note the “once you leave Africa” comment 3. “Melanocytes produce the dark pigment called melanin which gives skin, hair and eyes their colour”.. . .So I assume dark skin, hair and eyes are somehow related .. Djehuti? One of your argument is there is no relation. 4. This was interesting – “An ongoing project to sequence the entire Neanderthal genome was recently hit by the discovery that samples had been contaminated with modern human DNA”. Maybe that is where the redhead came from on Ramses LOL
This finding is not at all surprising. I would not even be surprised if Neanderthals also had blonde hair.
Why?! Simple and important answer: Neanderthals were the *ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF EUROPE* and have inhabited that region for well over 100,000 years before Homo Sapiens (modern humans) even left Africa!
Thus, Neanderthals not only had light colored hair, but likely had light colored eyes, and YES likely had white skin! They were homonids who adapted to cold climate long before modern humans.
And by the way, Leucodermic modern humans did not appear 6kya but earlier than that during at least the Mesolithic.
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dark skin, eyes and hair go together. AE coould of NEVER of had light skin, hair or eyes. Never accepted the Henna explaination. It either was down right fraud OR contamination. There are no redheads(Naturally) in that part of the world.
Not necessarily so. The indigenous populations of the Pacific and Australia are black yet many individuals have blonde and red hair as well as light-colored eyes! So your assessment is wrong.
But you are correct that light colored hair is atypical for Egyptians and other northeast Africans (not that it didn't happen). However, what is wrong with the henna argument? Do you not agree that the Egyptians dyed their gray hairs with henna during old age? Are you aware many peoples in Africa still practice the custom??
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QUOTE]And by the way, Leucodermic modern humans did not appear 6kya but earlier than that during at least the Mesolithic.
Evergreen Writes:
Djehuti, what is your source for this claim?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Thus, Neanderthals not only had light colored hair, but likely had light colored eyes, and YES likely had white skin! They were homonids who adapted to cold climate long before modern humans.
And by the way, Leucodermic modern humans did not appear 6kya but earlier than that during at least the Mesolithic.
Why would Neanderthals necessarily have "white" skin just because they lived in a temperate latitude? Many Native Americans also live in the temperate zone, and they (at least the pure ones) have brown skin.
Posts: 7103 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Umm, do they mention anything about the color of their nipples ?
Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:xyzman: Can’t see how they could have been pale skinned since Leucoderms arrived about 6kya
Lol. XYZ still not having mastered the ABC's of convergent evolution.
Neanderthal could well be leucoderm or green-skinned [in theory] for that matter.
They are a separate species, from homo sapiens.
[there are pink skinned apes, after all]
The two points of interest here are
1) We continue to learn about the genetics of skin color, that mutations on the M1CR gene cause paling.
This gene is over 1 millions years old, and so shared by essentially all subsequent hominids.
Neanderthal separate from homo-sapiens and est. 400 thousand years ago.
That's why they have M1CR, the gene that helps produce melanin or pigment in human skin, hair and eyes.
This gene evolved in Africa, possibly concordant to the loss of fur in hominids 1 million years ago.
2) Convergent evolution - the independant and re-curring patern of pheno-traits via unrelated genomic ancestry.
They have completely distinct mutations - not found in modern populations, that nontheless cause a trait - red headedness, that is found in modern populations.
This also underscores the fallacy of associating pheno-traits with race.
Neanderthal is a separate species, but has from time to time been assigned spurious designation of both 'k-zoid' and 'n-groid', for reasons which the photo above makes obvious.
The physical traits arbitrially assigned to race, do not relate or reveal true lineage.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Thus, Neanderthals not only had light colored hair, but likely had light colored eyes, and YES likely had white skin! They were homonids who adapted to cold climate long before modern humans.
What genetic indicators are we told about the light colored eyes of Neanderthals?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: And by the way, Leucodermic modern humans did not appear 6kya but earlier than that during at least the Mesolithic.
"Europeans lightened up 6,000 to 12,000 years ago..." is the full time range.
quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: Why would Neanderthals necessarily have "white" skin just because they lived in a temperate latitude? Many Native Americans also live in the temperate zone, and they (at least the pure ones) have brown skin.
You do know that most of Europe is in cold to polar climate right?? The only truly temperate part is along the Mediterranean. Besides, we are talking about the Pliestocene and Ice Age climate when even the Mediterranean areas were cold!
quote:Originally posted by Leito: Umm, do they mention anything about the color of their nipples ?
No, but you would like that won't you? Try keeping your fetishes to yourself. LOL
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver: What genetic indicators are we told about the light colored eyes of Neanderthals?
I didn't say there were, but only said that it is possible or even likely. Neanderthals were the first truly cold adapted homonid. Whatever features associated with modern cold adapted (white) Europeans, would they not be first associated with Neanderthals?
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Lol. XYZ still not having mastered the ABC's of convergent evolution.
Neanderthal could well be leucoderm or green-skinned [in theory] for that matter.
They are a separate species, from homo sapiens.
[there are pink skinned apes, after all]
The two points of interest here are
1) We continue to learn about the genetics of skin color, that mutations on the M1CR gene cause paling.
This gene is over 1 millions years old, and so shared by essentially all subsequent hominids.
Neanderthal separate from homo-sapiens and est. 400 thousand years ago.
That's why they have M1CR, the gene that helps produce melanin or pigment in human skin, hair and eyes.
This gene evolved in Africa, possibly concordant to the loss of fur in hominids 1 million years ago.
2) Convergent evolution - the independant and re-curring patern of pheno-traits via unrelated genomic ancestry.
They have completely distinct mutations - not found in modern populations, that nontheless cause a trait - red headedness, that is found in modern populations.
This also underscores the fallacy of associating pheno-traits with race.
Neanderthal is a separate species, but has from time to time been assigned spurious designation of both 'k-zoid' and 'n-groid', for reasons which the photo above makes obvious.
The physical traits arbitrially assigned to race, do not relate or reveal true lineage.
Best answer so far.
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: They are a separate species, from homo sapiens.
Neanderthal is a separate species, but has from time to time been assigned spurious designation of both 'k-zoid' and 'n-groid', for reasons which the photo above makes obvious.
Excellent points. Trying to compare them in ways to that of homo sapiens is fruitless IMO.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 1. Can’t see how they could have been pale skinned since Leucoderms arrived about 6kya
Come on, xyy guy? Leucoderms?
Leucoderms does NOT = Neanderthals.
They are not the same 'race', nor are they even the same species.
No trace of Neanderthal blood has ever been found in any modern human.
I believe Neanderthal was fully evolved in Europe anyway.
EDIT
Djehuti:
I know that you know, that I know that you know that light eyes, skin, and even other features such as hair are necissarily cold adaptations.
Look at Eskimos (though I know this may change, pending diet).
Skin - diet and UV rays
Hair - I honestly do not know
Eyes - gene assortment. Other people can have light eyes, even Levantine and Asians. You yourself have pointed out here.
I thought, that the main human adaptation to heat or lack there of, other than putting clothes on (using their wit), was in bone morphology.
Actually, in being black, melanin serves against the purpose of cooling one down (not to forget Phaemelanin). That's what tropical body plans are for.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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What genetic indicators are we told about the light colored eyes of Neanderthals?
I didn't say there were, but only said that it is possible or even likely. Neanderthals were the first truly cold adapted homonid. Whatever features associated with modern cold adapted (white) Europeans, would they not be first associated with Neanderthals?
I suppose it is possible, but it is worthwhile to note that while Neanderthals were related to a.m.hs, they are not one and same as a.m.hs. Secondly, is there any indication that eye pigmentation is tied to temperature? I mean, even skin color has little to do with temperature itself, but rather UV radiation. Similarly, while a certain amount of correlation between skin pigmentation and UV radiation levels has been observed, a question can also be asked about the specific ties between eye pigmentation and exposure to UV radiation.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Did you not just do a post on this and i answered it why do a double topic in the same area
I think the person who began this one didn't realize it was already posted elsewhere, no biggie.
What the hell is a "biggie"since im come on here a couple of nights ago im learn more abnormal language codes than i did in my job some god some bad im learnt how to swear now in code which scares me because half the time i have to work out what it means and i could put it in a post and insult someone "oh my not so good "but we live and learn ,a biggie to me is pick your nose ??am i right, and why you need to tell me to pick my nose Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
The relationship between Neandertals and modern humans, who are thought to have arisen in Africa some 120,000 to 150,000 years ago, and the demise of the Neandertals are intertwined. The two coexisted in Southwest Asia for a long period (see "The Peopling of Eurasia," ARCHAEOLOGY, January/February 1996). Excavations at sites in Israel have yielded remains of modern humans at Skhul and Qafzeh caves dated from as early as 120,000 to 90,000 years ago, and Neandertal remains at Kebara Cave dated from 60,000 years ago and Amud Cave dated from 40,000 to 50,000 years ago. In western Europe, Neandertals persisted until 30,000 years ago and possibly somewhat later. The question arises: To what extent did the two interact in terms of cultural exchange or trade and interbreeding? Were the Neandertals out-competed by modern humans or killed off by them, or were they absorbed into the population and genetically swamped? At Arcy-sur-Cure, in France, stone tools and personal ornaments similar to those associated elsewhere with modern humans have been found with 34,000-year-old Neandertal remains, suggesting trade between the two groups. Despite this evidence for cultural exchange, a study of temporal bones from Arcy-sur-Cure and other sites indicates significant differences between Neandertals and modern humans, suggesting interbreeding did not occur
-------------------- UNITED KINGDOM Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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Evolution Red hair is the rarest type of natural hair color in humans. The pale skin associated with red hair may be of advantage in far-northern climates where sunlight is scarce. Studies by Bodmer and Cavalli-Sforza (1976) hypothesized that lighter skin pigmentation prevents rickets in colder latitudes by encouraging higher levels of Vitamin D production and also allows the individual to retain heat better than someone with darker skin.[15] Rees (2004) suggested that the vividness and rarity of red hair may lead to it becoming desirable in a partner and therefore it could become more common through sexual selection.
Harding et al (2000) proposed that red hair was not the result of positive selection but rather occurs due to a lack of negative selection. In Africa, for example, red hair is selected against because high levels of sun would be harmful towards fair skin. However, in Northern Europe this does not happen and so redheads come about through genetic drift
Estimates on the original occurrence of the currently active gene for red hair vary from 20,000 to 100,000 years ago A DNA study has concluded that some Neanderthals also had red hair, although the mutation responsible for this differs from that which causes red hair in Homo Sapiens
Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}: ...Djehuti:
I know that you know, that I know that you know that light eyes, skin, and even other features such as hair are necissarily cold adaptations.
Look at Eskimos (though I know this may change, pending diet).
Skin - diet and UV rays
Hair - I honestly do not know
Eyes - gene assortment. Other people can have light eyes, even Levantine and Asians. You yourself have pointed out here.
I thought, that the main human adaptation to heat or lack there of, other than putting clothes on (using their wit), was in bone morphology.
Actually, in being black, melanin serves against the purpose of cooling one down (not to forget Phaemelanin). That's what tropical body plans are for.
Yes, but Inuit (Eskimo) supplemented their vitamin D with fish and marine mammal blubber. Neanderthals did not, which means they were very likely leucoderm (white). Thus, they were the first true white people as well as Europeans.
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Three things here: 1) Actual Eurasian populations as shown in the physical record; 2) Afro-Celts in Medieval Prague with red hair; 3) Myra Wysinger's page of African peoples with red hair. How do all these mesh with the relevant points of this thread particularly regarding who is likely to and not likely to have red hair?
[1] We speak about Neanderthal and Neanderthal was found also in Eurasia. The fossil record leaves us these images of Eurasians.
[2] Celts were African and in these pictures from Medieval Prague, there were those among them with red hair in pictures 4, 5, 6, and 7. How does this fit into the above theories in this thread?
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^ More nonsense. There is no such thing as "Afro-Celts". Celtic is an Indo-European language as is Germanic. Those people in Pliestocene Europe were no more 'African' than other peoples of Eurasia and were the direct ancestors of today's whites.
Neanderthals were their predecessors.
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
You do know that most of Europe is in cold to polar climate right?? The only truly temperate part is along the Mediterranean. Besides, we are talking about the Pliestocene and Ice Age climate when even the Mediterranean areas were cold!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Try keeping your fetishes to yourself. LOL
Best answer so far.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
the hell is a "biggie"since im come on here a couple of nights ago im learn more abnormal language codes than i did in my job some god some bad im learnt how to swear now in code ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
which scares me because half the time i have to work out what it means and i could put it in a post and insult someone "oh my not so good "but we live and learn ,a biggie to me is pick your nose ??am i right, and why you need to tell me to pick my nose 
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