• Ynty

• Ta Seti

?
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Perhaps it depended upon the political climate of the time. For example, KMT would have included all of the above during the imperial New Kingdom times.
 

---

Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
Likewise with Ta Seti, which somtimes encompasses Niwt [native] and sometimes Khast [foreign] from the perspective of the Kemetians.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Indeed. From the heyday of Qustul until the Old
Kingdom was established Ta Seti included a wider
expanse than it did in the dynastic era.

And it's true that the Qeshli originated 25th
dynasty saw the farthest ranging borders of
imperial Egypt (from south of Meroe clear to
Meggido in the Levant).



I guess what I'm after is what individual forum
members mean when they use Kemet. My guess
is that they limit it to the actual nomes rather
than applying it to the entire Black Community
of Rt Rmt and Nhhsw all along the Nile Valley.

What I mean is my guess is that a very few have
Qesh, Kenset, Inty, or even Ta Seti in mind when
they use Kemet.

Originally I limited to KM.t to the nomes. But
since translating BG 5:30 I've come around to
thinking otherwise. Maybe the term bore both
limiting and expanded connotations to the AEL
speakers pending on the text (or the speaker).

More comments?
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
First off thanks to alTakruri for pointing out that Km.t was a reference to both nHsiw and Egyptians in the Book of the Gates because I've never seen it in any other -including Panafrican- interpretation of this text and I definitely think this must be published on paper if not done yet.

I think it could definitely be fruitful, from this new-and more logical- not a exception to the "Kmt=Egypt" rule but rather a Kmt=Nile Valley rule to which Kmt=Two Lands was an exception.

I know the HANNIG Wörterbuch provides sources for the appearences of listed words so perhaps we could take a look at it see how the occurrences of "Km.t, Kmtyw, etc." can be interpreted as "Nile-Valley vs Egypt or Nile Valley people vs Egyptians". It will definitely be tough for me to do it alone so does anyone else have access to Hieroglyphic primary documents?
 

---

Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
Very interesting topic alTakruri. An interesting example of how "Egyptians" used the word Kemet can be seen in the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant. The peasant, Hunanup, lived in the Western Oasis Sechet-hemat:

quote:

---

There was a man, Hunanup by name, a peasant of Sechet-hemat, and he had a wife, ////// by name. Then said this peasant to his wife: "Behold, I am going down to Egypt to bring back bread for my children. Go in and measure the grain that we still have in our storehouse, ////////// bushel." Then he measured for her eight bushels of grain. Then this peasant said to his wife: "Behold, two bushels of grain shall be left for bread for you and the children. But make for me the six bushels into bread and beer for each of the days that I shall be on the road." Then this peasant went down to Egypt after he had loaded his asses with all the good produce of Sechet-hemat. This peasant set out and journeyed southward to Ehnas (Herakleopolis).

---

 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
I would actually say that Egypt's largest extent was also under the New Kingdom pharoahs Thutmosis I and so forth stretching from South of Kush to the Euphrates:



Also keep in mind that this Empire also stretched to the west in the Mediterranean and included parts of Greece and some of the Greek Isles at some point during the dynastic period. Also, from the Northern border at the Euphrates it is not very far to Colchis, the land that Heroditus is said to have been Colonized by Egyptians during the dynastic period. Of course, these are the most controversial aspects of Egyptian territorial expansion, but given the fact that dynastic pharoahs began pushing northwards during the first dynasty, it is not totally surprising that these areas may have been encountered at some point.

In fact, as opposed to other Empires, the Egyptian empire, as an EMPIRE which controlled vast areas outside of its own traditional boundaries, is not given much coverage. Part of this probably lie with some not wanting to admit to ancient Africans having conquered parts of Asia and Europe in the distant past. No matter what the reason, there should be no doubt that the extent of Egypt's empire is often greatly diminished by modern historians.

Getting back to the topic, though, I would say that Kmt proper stretched from somewhere just North of the 1st cataract and the Sinai.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
double post
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Calypso,
Good hearing from you. Where you been? Thanks for
the primary document distinguishing an oasis from
Egypt. We now need to see the untranslated Mdw Ntjr
for the Rn Mdw words for Sechet-Hemat and Egypt and
if the former is a x3st or a nwt.


ImageMaster DougM,
I think it's about the same distance from Meroe
to the confluence of the Blue and White Niles
as it is from Meggido to the Euphrates but it
does well precede the Keshli dynasty. Thanks
for the precision. I will remember it.
 

---

Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
^Thanks for the greeting alTakruri. I've been extremely busy at work but still reading Egypt Search everyday. Attached is a link to the hieroglyphic text of the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant:

http://www.rostau.org.uk/ep/index.html
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Help poor tired guy out and let him enjoy a lil
bit more realtime of this gorgeous Sunday in the
park by at least hinting at where on what page I
can find the passage you referenced. Thanks again.

OK, I can see on the 1st page that "Egypt" is
KM.t[nwt]. So the oasis, not being in the
fertile strip of the valley itself isn't part
of Kemet in this text.
 

---

Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
Sorry about that alTakruri. The following link provides a line by line translation:

http://www.rostau.org.uk/ep/EPAlign/Peasant/guest1.html
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Hmmm. Sechet-Hemat is a nwt. The general rule is
that a nwt is a settlement (of whatever size) that
belongs to Egypt proper.

Is this text then letting on that KM.t has subtleties
of meaning whereby parts of ancient Egypt don't quite
qualify as KM.t yet from other texts we know peoples
in territories beyond the nomes do rank as part of KM.t?
 

---

Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
Its a rather puzzling text. Is the reference to Kemet, in this instance, shorthand for a dichotomy between desert town versus town situated along the river? Or could it possibly be his more southerly destination (Herakleopolis)that qualified it as Kemet?
 

---

Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
Another intersting text to ponder when considering the meaning of Kemet is the Story of Sinuhe. Here we have a story where the major premise is the "foreigness" of this Asiatic entity. Yet to make the tale more evocative to the ancient Egyptian audience the author writes:

quote:

---

As for this flight made by this servant
It was not planned, it was not in my heart, I did not plot it
I do not know what separated me from my place, it was like a dream
It is as if a Delta-man saw himself in Abu, a marsh-man in the Land of Nubia

---

quote:

---

40 (Berlin 3022, 223-234)
is wart tn irt.n bAk
n xmt.s nn s m ib.i n qmd.i s
r rx.i iwd.i r st.i iw mi sSm rswt
mi mAA sw idHy m Abw s n xAt m tA-sty

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Hmmm. Sechet-Hemat is a nwt. The general rule is
that a nwt is a settlement (of whatever size) that
belongs to Egypt proper.

Is this text then letting on that KM.t has subtleties
of meaning whereby parts of ancient Egypt don't quite
qualify as KM.t yet from other texts we know peoples
in territories beyond the nomes do rank as part of KM.t?

---

Thanks.
It is just my personal opinion that Egypt reached its greatest extent during the 18th dynasty and stretched into the Mediterranean and possibly beyond the Euphrates. Many scholars admit this but it is something that is easily overlooked when covering a civilization that lasted 3000 years or more.
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
I have the HANNIG handwörterbuch at hand (which unfortunately doesn't give sources for the textual appearances of the words) and it shows an entry with [km]+ [3 (vulture)], no determinatives, transliterated "kmtjw" (WTF???)& meaning "people from Athribis", a place in Lower Egypt. Moreover, I am not sure exactly why, but Senegalese Egyptologist Babacar SALL claims that the ideogramm of kmt is an indication of kmt originally being the name of a simple locality, just like H.t-k3-ptH.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Accept no substitutes . You'll need the Erman-
Grapow "Wörterbuch" with its Belegstellen of source texts.

KM.t isn't a single ideogram. The KM ideogram is
a charred piece of wood (or crocodile scale if one
prefers). Its meaning is black as something all
charred (or as a croc's scale).

The NWT ideogram on the otherhand is a crossroads
and can refer to anyplace or settlement at least big
enough to have four corners.
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
I found some entries for Athribis under KM and KM wr.

The KM[nwt] entry says that KM is shorthand
for a number of rather "longhand" ways to write
KM wr (involving several determinatives each).

KM wr is a title of Ausar pertaining to his
attachment to this city, Hht-hhryb (At-hrib-is),
and the Great Black Bull (the two were later
combined to make Serapis for the Serapeum
tombs of the Greeks. It lay in the 10th sepat of
Ta Mehhu.

Sidenote: the 2nd nome of "lower" Egypt
is Khem (but spelled different than Kem).
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
^^
Thanks for the explanation.
I still don't get why SALL claims that Km.t was originally the name of a city before extending its name to the whole country though. Do you?
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Haven't read Sall, so can't really say.

I did find something else about KM w/t vulture
but what I came up with is a misspelling of knm.t

Can you share some more on KM w/t vultures, please?
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
The vulture I'm referring to isn't the [mt] but the [3] (Neophron percnopterus). This is the only use of this sign in a km (derived) word I've come across so far.
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
Has anyone ever wondered why the ERMAN/GRAPOW's Wörterbuch translates t3 (determinant)km.t[niwt] as "a specific part of Egypt"?

Cameroonian Egyptologist Oscar PFOUMA claims that the t3 in this very case isn't an article, but a demonstrative determinant the way it was used during times preceding NK literature. Thus the expression would mean "this km.t", which would imply that there were several km.t(i.e. political entities) that were part of the Km.t "nation".

PFOUMA even goes on saying that km.t[niw.t], unlike km.t[rmT], isn't a reference to a color, but a root meaning "political entity", providing a comparative GREENBERG list Egyptian/Bantu/Oromo for km.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Continuing on the idea of Egypt stretching to Colchis, note the following from Jason and the Argonauts:

quote:

---

HEY had come into a country that was the strangest of all countries, and amongst a people that were the strangest of all peoples. They were in the land, this people said, before the moon had come into the sky. And it is true that when the great king of Egypt had come so far, finding in all other places men living on the high hills and eating the acorns that grew on the oaks there, he found in Colchis the city of Aea with a wall around it and with pillars on which writings were graven. That was when Egypt was called the Morning Land.

And many of the magicians of Egypt who had come with King Sesostris stayed in that city of Aea, and they taught people spells that could stay the moon in her going and coming, in her rising and setting. Priests of the Moon ruled the city of Aea until King Æetes came.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

Has anyone ever wondered why the ERMAN/GRAPOW's Wörterbuch translates t3 (determinant)km.t[niwt] as "a specific part of Egypt"?

Cameroonian Egyptologist Oscar PFOUMA claims that the t3 in this very case isn't an article, but a demonstrative determinant the way it was used during times preceding NK literature. Thus the expression would mean "this km.t", which would imply that there were several km.t(i.e. political entities) that were part of the Km.t "nation".

PFOUMA even goes on saying that km.t[niw.t], unlike km.t[rmT], isn't a reference to a color, but a root meaning "political entity", providing a comparative GREENBERG list Egyptian/Bantu/Oromo for km.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
I can see that he still sees 'km' as 'black', but I'll have to disagree with PFouma where Kmt[nwt] is concerned, for example. I don't think the underlying meaning of Kmt changes from connoting 'blackness' and 'sacredness'; it is simply a national appellation, whereby 'black' nation literally amounts to 'The Sacred nation' or simply, 'The Sacred [black]", with nation implied with a determinative. So while the term here may well get a twist in interpretation, the basic term 'kmt' doesn't really change, since 'black' isn't just a color, but is 'sacred'. Simply put, 'black' and 'sacred' aren't mutually exclusive, but rather, mutually inclusive.

'kmtyw' or 'rmt n kmt', as another example, whereby the words read as 'blacks' or 'black peoples', translation can be simplified into 'citizens' from Egyptic to English, without 'km' loosing its connotative value as 'black'. Once again, from what I understand, the term 'black' has real implications here, which is that the shade we call 'black' in English, also happens to be 'sacred'.


In any case, if you have examples of cotexts which have led PFouma to the conclusion that the term 'km' may be a standard Egyptic lexicon which absolutely looses its basic connotation for 'black' in the various distinctive contexts, then please share it. I can see that he attempts to buttress this, by looking for possible lexical correspondences across different language groups, but I like to an entertain all ideas and closely assess their objective validity. Who knows, he might be onto something, once an in depth look at the premises he's operating from has been established.

---

 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Not as easy a task as it would seem . So far
using Erman & Grapow all I've found under the
letter "t" is

T3 KM.m.t[nwt]

which they say means "the land of Egypt,"
coming into usage in the New Kingdom.

Interestingly enough the very next entry is

T3 nhhsy[x3st]

which in the German has "das Negerland."

[This is another example of what I recently wrote
in another thread about black and negro not being
synonymous in European languages. The German
word for black is schwartz(e). But see above the
word neger. If the concept negro only means black
then they'd've use "das Schwartzeland."]


I'll continue searching the E&G woerterbuch
both under "t" and "k" for t3-km.t entries but
feel free to chime in with other woerterbuchen
that supplement/complement/augament E&G's.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Perhaps we should ask alTakruri who has access to the Wörterbuch what are the occurrences of t3-km.t "a specific part of the Egyptian territory".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

Can't be overemphasized. The root word 'km', without a determinative, whether in terms of glyphs or cotexts expressing the context at hand, remains the equivalence of what we call 'black' in English. The connotation of 'black' [+ sacredness] in 'km' or 'kmt', as per my understanding, never ceases to be, even where the term 'kmt' is modified by a determinative to designate a locality, the nation, citizens, description of an individual or what have you. It is to this extent that I find the following idea questionable, pending in depth analysis of the presumed independent etymological basis of a single lexicon for distinctive terms, as opposed to the standard singular lexicon being modified by a determinative or cotext, without loosing its basic or underlying meaning:

He supports his hypothesis of the existence of two/three distinct **roots** in Egyptic relying on Panafrican evidence - Please call me Midogbe

I mean, let's take 'black' in English as an example, where the term could imply evil, bad luck, bad experience and other such negativity without loosing that basic meaning of 'black'. Well, Kemetic context of what we call 'black' in English, appears to have the opposite connotation, where it embodies all things sacred, positive, and longevity [as in the kind devoid of light and beyond the organic and material world]; again, without loosing the root meaning of the term to designate 'black', which is also by nature, sacred.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
... negger means plower does it not?

---

 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Sorry, just had a question about that!

What a riot it would be if Arnold's last name actually meant "black-ni**er"! ROTFL

Anyway, I don't have any Egyptians dictionaries so I am wondering do you have any more verification as to what the western oases and the deserts were called by the Kmetwy?
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
Does anyone remember the name of this Greek writer who claimed that the name of Egypt meant "black" because the country was most of the time?

I checked the two big HANNIG Wörterbuch the first dealing with the OK and the other from the MK.

Interestingly, the first doesn't record any entry for Km.t "Egypt" while it does for dSr.t "Desert"; that the former is only attested from the MK which would somehow confirm PFOUMA's point that km.t (niw.t) & dSr.t(x3s.t) weren't originally part of a same semantic delimitation of the world (black nation vs red nation).

In support of PFOUMA's theory, and against testimonies like the one of the Greek author cited above, perhaps one could admit that AEgyptians later merged the 2 paronyms km "black" and km "territory" into one by analogy with dsr.t.

The t3(article) km.t(niw.t) entry is found in the MK HANNIG as well, apparently in the 2nd Kamose stela. Haven't read it yet, but the "this Egypt" expression would make sense IMO according to the traditional km.t(niw.t)= black nation because of the political situation at this very point of history.

I also found another entry m t3(article) km.t(niw.t) "in this Egypt", in the small HANNIG wörterbuch, but I couldn't manage to find its source in the OK/MK wörterbücher. I take it dates from a post MK period.
 

---

Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:


In support of PFOUMA's theory, and against testimonies like the one of the Greek author cited above, perhaps one could admit that AEgyptians later merged the 2 paronyms km "black" and km "territory" into one by analogy with dsr.t.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

The t3(article) km.t(niw.t) entry is found in the MK HANNIG as well, apparently in the 2nd Kamose stela. Haven't read it yet, but the "this Egypt" expression would make sense IMO according to the traditional km.t(niw.t)= black nation because of the political situation at this very point of history.

I also found another entry m t3(article) km.t(niw.t) "in this Egypt", in the small HANNIG wörterbuch, but I couldn't manage to find its source in the OK/MK wörterbücher. I take it dates from a post MK period.

---

quote:

---

'Km' in 'km.t' is no different from 'dshr' in dshr.t. They are both rooted in the denotation of respective colors equivalent to 'black' and 'red' in English

---

quote:

---

I also found another entry m t3(article) km.t(niw.t) "in this Egypt",

---

Right, Egypt.

Should be read of course as, in this Keme'.

In this Black (nation).

Linguists still playing their word substitution games.
 

---

Posted by Please call me MIDOGBE (Member # 9216) on :
 
No no, it was not the land glyph that was used but the two uniliterals used to write the determiner "t(half circle)" + "3(percnopter(sp?) vulture)".


And thanks for the Book of the Dead reference.

Are you or anyone else aware of any other non Egyptian writings translating the name of Egypt by "Black"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:


In support of PFOUMA's theory, and against testimonies like the one of the Greek author cited above, perhaps one could admit that AEgyptians later merged the 2 paronyms km "black" and km "territory" into one by analogy with dsr.t.

---

'Km' in 'km.t' is no different from 'dshr' in dshr.t. They are both rooted in the denotation of respective colors equivalent to 'black' and 'red' in English. Km in reference to 'territory' would have been a noun, amongst the various, contextualization of the term.

Surely, if 'dshr.t' existed in the Old Kingdom vocabulary, so would have 'km'/'km.t'. BTW, have you tried locating this term in the 'Book of the Dead'; I recall a previous discussion, wherein this term was said to have been attested to in the said literature, although the specifics of its context and precise location therein weren't brought to my attention at the time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

---

'Km' in 'km.t' is no different from 'dshr' in dshr.t. They are both rooted in the denotation of respective colors equivalent to 'black' and 'red' in English

---

Correct. They are just colors.

I tried to relate something similar in the previous disussion over the supposed Nb.t city vs. Nub gold.

These are not different words, with distinct etymologies, that come to relate to one another in mysterious unaccountable ways.

They are the same root utilised in different contexts as nouns or adjectives.

Imagine in English searching for the different etymology of black, Black, Blacks and Blacks'.

quote:

---

I also found another entry m t3(article) km.t(niw.t) "in this Egypt",

---

Right, Egypt.

Should be read of course as, in this Keme'.

In this Black (nation).

Linguists still playing their word substitution games.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

No no, it was not the land glyph that was used but the two uniliterals used to write the determiner "t(half circle)" + "3(percnopter(sp?) vulture)".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

Are you or anyone else aware of any other non Egyptian writings translating the name of Egypt by "Black"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:


Honestly, I'd like to see the context & cotext of the use of "in this Km.t" to make a definite conclusion about its meaning.
It may have been a specification vis à vis other times Egypt, or a reference to a specific part of Egypt which would be used here as a synonym of territory, or one of the two lands... Don't know. Definitely need to check the original text to make a conclusion about it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

---

'Km' in 'km.t' is no different from 'dshr' in dshr.t. They are both rooted in the denotation of respective colors equivalent to 'black' and 'red' in English

---

Correct. They are just colors.

I tried to relate something similar in the previous disussion over the supposed Nb.t city vs. Nub gold.

These are not different words, with distinct etymologies, that come to relate to one another in mysterious unaccountable ways.

They are the same root utilised in different contexts as nouns or adjectives.

Imagine in English searching for the different etymology of black, Black, Blacks and Blacks'.

quote:

---

I also found another entry m t3(article) km.t(niw.t) "in this Egypt",

---

Right, Egypt.

Should be read of course as, in this Keme'.

In this Black (nation).

Linguists still playing their word substitution games.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Does anyone remember the name of this Greek writer who claimed that the name of Egypt meant "black" because the country was most of the time?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Does anyone remember the name of this Greek writer who claimed that the name of Egypt meant "black" because the country was most of the time?

---

Plutarch, "Isis & Osiris".

---

quote:

---

Besides, Egypt which is of a black soil to the highest degree, as well as the black part of the eye, they call “Chemia,” and compare it to a heart, for it is hot and moist, and is chiefly enclosed and annexed to the southern parts of the habitable world, in the same manner as the heart is in the left hand parts of man.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Please call me MIDOGBE:
Does anyone remember the name of this Greek writer who claimed that the name of Egypt meant "black" because the country was most of the time?

---

Plutarch, "Isis & Osiris".

---

So, are you going to elaborate?

---

quote:

---

I started pouring over Erman&Grapow Friday for KM entries and did find eye(pupil) among them. Forehead, face, beard, and hair were other body parts in association with KM.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Niwt and Khast is best understood as a dichtomy of Native and Foreign.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
I found some entries for Athribis under KM and KM wr.

The KM[nwt] entry says that KM is shorthand
for a number of rather "longhand" ways to write
KM wr (involving several determinatives each).

KM wr is a title of Ausar pertaining to his
attachment to this city, Hht-hhryb (At-hrib-is),
and the Great Black Bull (the two were later
combined to make Serapis for the Serapeum
tombs of the Greeks. It lay in the 10th sepat of
Ta Mehhu.

Sidenote: the 2nd nome of "lower" Egypt
is Khem (but spelled different than Kem).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
Can't be overemphasized. The root word 'km', without a determinative, whether in terms of glyphs or cotexts expressing the context at hand, remains the equivalence of what we call 'black' in English. The connotation of 'black' [+ sacredness] in 'km' or 'kmt', as per my understanding, never ceases to be, even where the term 'kmt' is modified by a determinative to designate a locality, the nation, citizens, description of an individual or what have you. It is to this extent that I find the following idea questionable, pending in depth analysis of the presumed independent etymological basis of a single lexicon for distinctive terms, as opposed to the standard singular lexicon being modified by a determinative or cotext, without loosing its basic or underlying meaning:

He supports his hypothesis of the existence of two/three distinct **roots** in Egyptic relying on Panafrican evidence - Please call me Midogbe

I mean, let's take 'black' in English as an example, where the term could imply evil, bad luck, bad experience and other such negativity without loosing that basic meaning of 'black'. Well, Kemetic context of what we call 'black' in English, appears to have the opposite connotation, where it embodies all things sacred, positive, and longevity [as in the kind devoid of light and beyond the organic and material world]; again, without loosing the root meaning of the term to designate 'black', which is also by nature, sacred.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
It belongs here too. This thread also delved into
nwt and x3t distintions and nuances. Given time I'd
like to go into t3 as it relates to eth (in Hebrew)
regarding the incarnation Migdobe's post where he
shows t3 meaning "this." All these things are fine
and increment our Egyptology knowledge base.

So thanks for reviving the thread. I can only ask
that all trolling be ignored and that we refrain from
flame throwing and hurling pejoratives be they of
gender,sexual preference, creed, colour, ethnicity,
race, or nationality.

---