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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Is there an explanation why people from horn africa have such recessive genes? Since i've noticed that the offspring always looks like the other parent?
Here are some pics for demonstration

Ethiopian/Taiwanese


Somali/Indonesian


Eritrean/Egyptian


Somali/Finnish


Dutch/Eritrean


Somali/British


Russian/Ethiopian


(Girl)Filipino/Eritrean

 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Pakistani/Ethiopian
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/166/pict0030bm4.jpg

Eritrean/syrian-armenian


Ethiopian/American


(brothers)Eritrean/Swedish


Eritrean/Irish-American


Ethiopian/Venezuelan



Serbian/Eritrean

 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
(brothers)Japanes/Ethiopian



Both the kids parents are Eritrean/Italian mixed


Somali/German


Somali/Egyptian


Eritrean/Slovenian


(Guy) Ethiopian/Finnish


Spanish/Ethiopian

 

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Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:

Is there an explanation why people from horn africa have such recessive genes? Since i've noticed that the offspring always looks like the other parent?

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Don't know, but it certainly explains why coastal north Africans look the way the do, even though they have substantial East African ancestry, and which in the case of coastal northwest African "Berbers", is largely paternal.
 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Eritrean/German


Eritrean/Swedish


Somali/Italian


Somali/Morroccon


Somali/Armenian


Somali/Italian

 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Somali/Norwegian (Girl in the middle)


Somali/Canadian


Somali/Lebanese



Eritrean/Norwegian brothers


Ethiopian/japanese

 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
In terms of genetics [what you asked about], there isn't any defined instance of East Africans having 'recessive' genes.

Phenotype is subjective, and photos are selective.

I do understand what you're asking, but you can't do genetics this way.
 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Those photos are not selective at all, i've posted all horn african mixed photos that i could find on the net. Maybe you can post some more representative photos of horn african mixed people, if you consider those above selective?

My point was to show that regardless if they are from East-asia or Europe they always end up looking as their non-african parent, atleast as my eyes can see.
 

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Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 
Outside of any potential genetic explanation for the question posed in the intro notes, I guess it is relatively easy for a combination of traits of the said East African parents and their extra-East African counterparts to appear distinct from that of the former [and perhaps the latter as well], because cranio-metric trends in certain Afrasan speaking groups of East Africa are relatively generalized vis-à-vis various extra-African groups, and since in many occasions, "hybrid" offspring tend to be intermediate, it would appear to some observers that the said East African traits aren't expressed, or in other words - "don't stand out". Look at Barack Obama; his facial traits may well be distinct enough from his African father. Does this necessarily mean that the father's traits weren't expressed? Of course not, which is why he can still pass for a "black man" in the U.S., and likely anywhere else. His phenotype is quite likely 'intermediate' between his two parents.

Take these aforementioned pictures, for instance:









Take that Italian-Somali soccer player on the top, for instance; I’ve come across some Yemeni and Amharinya individuals who sport a general appearance not much different from this man’s. The Italian-Somali gentleman below, could well pass for a coastal North African - like a swarthy "Berber" speaker from that region. The traits of these two individuals are likely intermediate between that of their European and African parents. What about the Norwegian lady in the middle photo? She apparently doesn't look like the average Norwegian female. She too, while apparently distinct from both her Norwegian parent and East African parent, is likely intermediate between the two in terms of phenotypic traits.
 

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Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
 
As much as the gene pool is recessive vis a vis a Northern comparative (Mediterranean/Europe), we can safely say the opposite is true if a Somali/Eritrean/Ethiopian intermarries with any of the West African and Southern African (Niger/NIgeria) their phenotype will approximate those Southern African tribal groups that they interact!
 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
This is very true, my elder cousin's mother is Ugandan and he looks nothing like a somali but completely Ugandan. I'll try to post his pic later when i get access to a scanner in school.
 

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Posted by Yom (Member # 11256) on :
 
I have two cousins that are 1/2 Nigerian that look completely Nigerian, actually. I have another pair of distant cousins who are 1/2 Chinese but look 100% Asian. Imagine seeing little Chinese kids running around speaking in Amharic.
 

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Posted by KaBa Un Hru (Member # 4547) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:
This is very true, my elder cousin's mother is Ugandan and he looks nothing like a somali but completely Ugandan. I'll try to post his pic later when i get access to a scanner in school.

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quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
Outside of any potential genetic explanation for the question posed in the intro notes, I guess it is relatively easy for a combination of traits of the said East African parents and their extra-East African counterparts to appear distinct from that of the former [and perhaps the latter as well], because cranio-metric trends in certain Afrasan speaking groups of East Africa are relatively generalized vis-à-vis various extra-African groups, and since in many occasions, "hybrid" offspring tend to be intermediate, it would appear to some observers that the said East African traits aren't expressed, or in other words - "don't stand out". Look at Barack Obama; his facial traits may well be distinct enough from his African father. Does this necessarily mean that the father's traits weren't expressed? Of course not, which is why he can still pass for a "black man" in the U.S., and likely anywhere else. His phenotype is quite likely 'intermediate' between his two parents.

Take these aforementioned pictures, for instance:









Take that Italian-Somali soccer player on the top, for instance; I’ve come across some Yemeni and Amharinya individuals who sport a general appearance not much different from this man’s. The Italian-Somali gentleman below, could well pass for a coastal North African - like a swarthy "Berber" speaker from that region. The traits of these two individuals are likely intermediate between that of their European and African parents. What about the Norwegian lady in the middle photo? She apparently doesn't look like the average Norwegian female. She too, while apparently distinct from both her Norwegian parent and East African parent, is likely intermediate between the two in terms of phenotypic traits.

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i have never seen a amharic person that is looks close to what he looks, if u think that he looks amharic, anyway the explanation for this is that some east africans are feature wise closer to eurasions than to the stryotypical black look (please dont get me wrong as i am not saying that we are genetically etc closer to eurasions).

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quote:

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Originally posted by KaBa Un Hru:

quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:
This is very true, my elder cousin's mother is Ugandan and he looks nothing like a somali but completely Ugandan. I'll try to post his pic later when i get access to a scanner in school.

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This seems to be a matter of XX verse XY chromosomes.

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quote:

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Could this have something to do with the fact that East Africans are mainly the host of L3 and L3 is haplogroup from which the macro-haplogroups M and N came from?

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quote:

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I guess this gets kinds of sticky being that an AA can have a strong m, r1b, etc presence and still look African ...

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quote:

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Eritrean/mixed Egyptian

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quote:

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Eritrean/Egyptian (mixed)

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quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

i have never seen a amharic person that is looks close to what he looks, if u think that he looks amharic, anyway the explanation for this is that some east africans are feature wise closer to eurasions than to the stryotypical black look (please dont get me wrong as i am not saying that we are genetically etc closer to eurasions).

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quote:

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I do understand what you're asking, but you can't do genetics this way.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

i have never seen a amharic person that is looks close to what he looks, if u think that he looks amharic, anyway the explanation for this is that some east africans are feature wise closer to eurasions than to the stryotypical black look (please dont get me wrong as i am not saying that we are genetically etc closer to eurasions).

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The keywords in your comment is "You" have never seen. Plus, you need to interpret words carefully, because I never said the guy looks "Amharic" - that is nonsense. I said that I've come across Amarinya individuals who don't look much different in general appearance from the person in question. Spot the difference between your claim and mine? I hope so. Trust me, I know that part of the world [Ethiopia] very well, or should I say, "I know that part of the world "b.t'am"[Don't know if the word as put forth does any justice to how it is actually pronounce]".

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quote:

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I guess this gets kinds of sticky being that an AA can have a strong m, r1b, etc presence and still look African

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quote:

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Yoner:
Why do you always have to write about such trivial matters? You understood the message conveyed, didn't you? I'm not writing a paper that's going to be published in a scientific journal, this is just a discussion forum.

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quote:

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Africa:
But regarding looks, it's possible, I've seen some Somali who could pass for Indians although they are technically 100% Somali

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yom:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

i have never seen a amharic person that is looks close to what he looks, if u think that he looks amharic, anyway the explanation for this is that some east africans are feature wise closer to eurasions than to the stryotypical black look (please dont get me wrong as i am not saying that we are genetically etc closer to eurasions).

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The keywords in your comment is "You" have never seen. Plus, you need to interpret words carefully, because I never said the guy looks "Amharic" - that is nonsense. I said that I've come across Amarinya individuals who don't look much different in general appearance from the person in question. Spot the difference between your claim and mine? I hope so. Trust me, I know that part of the world [Ethiopia] very well, or should I say, "I know that part of the world "b.t'am"[Don't know if the word as put forth does any justice to how it is actually pronounce]".

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I'm guessing you meant "bet'am" (="a lot," but close enough),

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quote:

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Yom:

Anyway, I have yet to meet an Ethiopian that looks like that, but I do agree that the mixes do usually retain some of their horner features, just that it's hard to separate some features such as nose breadth and length.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
Yom, when I want your opinion on "my experience", I'll let you know.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yom:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

Yom, when I want your opinion on "my experience", I'll let you know.

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Go ahead and point out where I gave my opinion on your experience

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quote:

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since all I did was supply ine. Where did I even use the word experience?

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quote:

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Only you can turn benign threads into flame-fests.

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quote:

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Yom:

I'm done replying to your posts.

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Your choice; just remember that I've been posting here before I ever knew any such thing as "yom" exists on this planet. So your presence, or lack thereof makes no difference. So long.
 

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Posted by kifaru (Member # 4698) on :
 
Which individuals in the pictures have East African fathers and which individuals have East African mothers?
 

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Posted by salah (Member # 11739) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

i have never seen a amharic person that is looks close to what he looks, if u think that he looks amharic, anyway the explanation for this is that some east africans are feature wise closer to eurasions than to the stryotypical black look (please dont get me wrong as i am not saying that we are genetically etc closer to eurasions).

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The keywords in your comment is "You" have never seen. Plus, you need to interpret words carefully, because I never said the guy looks "Amharic" - that is nonsense. I said that I've come across Amarinya individuals who don't look much different in general appearance from the person in question. Spot the difference between your claim and mine? I hope so. Trust me, I know that part of the world [Ethiopia] very well, or should I say, "I know that part of the world "b.t'am"[Don't know if the word as put forth does any justice to how it is actually pronounce]".

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quote:

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Originally posted by salah:

quote:

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Mystery Solver:

The keywords in your comment is "You" have never seen. Plus, you need to interpret words carefully, because I never said the guy looks "Amharic" - that is nonsense. I said that I've come across Amarinya individuals who don't look much different in general appearance from the person in question. Spot the difference between your claim and mine? I hope so. Trust me, I know that part of the world [Ethiopia] very well, or should I say, "I know that part of the world "b.t'am"[Don't know if the word as put forth does any justice to how it is actually pronounce]".

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people on this form need to really understand that amharas , oromos, somalis are not really that differnt.

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quote:

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salah:

for example it's not that easy
for a white person to know the differnce between us very easily.

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quote:

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salah:

i could post tons of very light skinned somalis,who are very light , same with ethiopians, but it does not mean that they are typical somalis/ethiopians.

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quote:

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salah:

that football player could fit more in marocco, or tunisia than ethiopia.

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quote:

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salah:

also to add that i myself i am from somalia, and i have also visted ethiopia.

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I too have been to ethiopia, and your point?
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Yonis, can you post more pictures of pretty girls?

By the way, I've always wondered about that myself-- why people of mixed Horn African parentage always look like the other parent.
 

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Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
 
I met a Somalian young woman who was half-Asian. She looked Somalian to me, i.e. beautiful...lol. She married an African-American Muslim dude, and their kids.....looked Somalian/A.A./Black to me.........
 

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Posted by AFRICA I (Member # 13222) on :
 
Although I don't agree totally with Yonis statement, Horners are Africans and since most Africans are on the extreme of human physical feature variations. It's not surprising that a mix of a Somali and non African would look different from a Somali. Non African are usually intermediary in term of physical features. But again we have to be careful since some native horners have foreign admixture, especially among Eritreans, some don't even look like Africans...the same can be said about some Somali...however I did meet with mixed Somali who look Somali...that's why I don't totally agree with Yonis...
 

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Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 

quote:

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Africa:
that's why I don't totally agree with Yonis...

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quote:

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Originally posted by SEEKING:
So genetically, Somalis do not possess recessive genes?

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There is no evidence that Somali genes are any more or less 'recessive' than anyone elses.
 

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Posted by unfinished thought (Member # 15848) on :
 

 

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Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

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Originally posted by SEEKING:
So genetically, Somalis do not possess recessive genes?

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There is no evidence that Somali genes are any more or less 'recessive' than anyone elses.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
^It seems he was just trying to say that 'caucasoids' and 'semites' both get their features from their ancestral East African population and not the other way around - which is correct.

The reason 'caucasoid features' don't mean jack when found throughout Africa is because people going all the way back to pre-Out of Africa and past have been claimed to have somehow had 'caucasian [really African] features' (see South African Hofmeyer skull among other examples throughout Africa).

Semitic is a LANGUAGE that originated in Africa. The Caucasus is a geographic region. Neither of those harbor 'HSS races'.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:
Is there an explanation why people from horn africa have such recessive genes? Since i've noticed that the offspring always looks like the other parent?
Here are some pics for demonstration

Ethiopian/Taiwanese


Somali/Indonesian


Eritrean/Egyptian


Somali/Finnish


Dutch/Eritrean


Somali/British


Russian/Ethiopian


(Girl)Filipino/Eritrean

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:
Is there an explanation why people from horn africa have such recessive genes? Since i've noticed that the offspring always looks like the other parent?
Here are some pics for demonstration

Ethiopian/Taiwanese


Somali/Indonesian


Eritrean/Egyptian

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For what it's worth a lot of Guyanese people look like these people.

What some people don't understand is there is a whole bunch of Black people who don't have the crunchy hair that a lot of West Africans (e.g. Nigerians) have. A Black man from Guyana could be darker than I am but would have that hair that a lot of Somalians and Ethiopians have.

Consequently when these "straight haired" Black people mix with whites/Asians their children don't look quite like a Nigerian/white mix but that doesn't mean they look any less African.

West Africans (or crunchy haired Africans) are not the only Africans.

My girlfriend has hair exactly like those in the pictures above, and her father is Blacker than the average Nigerian.
 

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Posted by Boofer (Member # 15638) on :
 
I think there are two big problems with the question:

1. Your own perception of Somali vs. "other" traits/phenotypes

2. The fact that you're assuming what the parents look like.
 

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Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
 
West Africans






 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Indeed I was generalising about West Africans. It is not uncommon at all to find "straight haired" Africans in Nigeria. These are the Fulani types (and I'm sure some other ethnic groups I'm not aware of). It's just that in most parts of Nigeria, it is the "crunchy" hair type that most people have.

The average man on the street in Lagos, if you asked him, would tell you that the girl in the picture below is "mixed race" (presuming some Arab/Fulani/Hausa mixture).




But then again, the Fulanis are instrumental in spreading these rumors. They tend to believe they are "mixed" also.

I find it fascinating how people from Guyana would have the exact same hairtype as some Fulanis of Nigeria. The girl pictured above has the *exact* same skin tone and hair-type as my girl's younger sister. It really is a mystery (well not really for me - but I still find the phenomenon fascinating).
 

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Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
 
*Science cannot be substituted by hearsay; rather, it tests one's ability to methodologically present material that is falsifiable, subject to scrutiny.

*As a matter of simple geography, west Africa comprises all that lies on the westward section of the continent; neither coastal northwest Africa, nor sub-Saharan west Africa limits what is west African.

*The individuals in the images presented are Malians.

*There is nothing remotely extraordinary about the skin pigmentations of these individuals, with respect to the sub-Saharan African continuum. If there is, a scientific demonstration of how so, would be in order.

*What specific long-held Fulani oral traditions relay that they are "mixed"; that is -- "mixed" in what sense? It goes without saying, that this is the 21st century; we all ought to be able to look beyond long scientifically-shattered and dead 19th century-conceived anthropological constructs.

*The urge to stereotype is precisely the sort of dogmatic mentality that motivated the creation of the "Forest Negro" archetype which was artificially confined to a geography as its only authentic habitat, that it could not ideally transcend -- aka sub-Saharan Africa, which is yet another bogus idealized concept -- i.e. short of simply meaning "below the Sahara", wherein any reality that otherwise didn't accomodate the idealization, was simply explained off as having come about through the agent of foreign transmission.
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women and extremely light women.


The boy refers to African hair that he doesn't like (ie. thinks is not straight enough for him) derogatorily as "crunchy".


This numbskull is the most pathetic creature to ever post on this forum.


But what else would one expect from a supposedly grown ass man who listens to "hip hop".
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Look at nape of the girl's neck. It's not straight.
She doesn't have naturally straight hair. Naturally
straight hair isn't wooly anywhere at the root.

Fulani do not have straight hair. Fulani make a big
fuss about their hair and spend inordinate amounts
of time tending to it in nearly constant braiding and
conditioning. It's a pursuit of beauty, a main ethos among them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Explorateur:
West Africans

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quote:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women and extremely light women.


The boy refers to African hair that he doesn't like (ie. thinks is not straight enough for him) derogatorily as "crunchy".


This numbskull is the most pathetic creature to ever post on this forum.


But what else would one expect from a supposedly grown ass man who listens to "hip hop".

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quote:

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She doesn't have naturally straight hair. Naturally
straight hair isn't wooly anywhere at the root.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women

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I DON'T LIKE WHITE WOMEN (ALSO I DON'T "HATE" ANY WOMEN OR ANYONE). IN FACT, I FIND WHITE WOMEN TO BE EXTREMELY UNATTRACTIVE AND LACKING IN "SPICE" AND "COLOUR".

How does that sound?
 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Look at nape of the girl's neck. It's not straight.
She doesn't have naturally straight hair. Naturally
straight hair isn't wooly anywhere at the root.

Fulani do not have straight hair. Fulani make a big
fuss about their hair and spend inordinate amounts
of time tending to it in nearly constant braiding and
conditioning. It's a pursuit of beauty, a main ethos among them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Explorateur:
West Africans

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As for Fulani's own opinion on mixture their self-written
(not oral) histories will provide all one needs to know
on which ethnies they consider part of their root stocks
and there are more than one kind of Fulani even as
far as their own ages old ideas about their origins go.

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True Dat.

I said "straight hair" for lack of a better word. I'm sure you understand the point I'm trying to make in the difference between hairtypes. Shall I call it "Indian hair" since it is common among Indians?

My boy Othman B. Tofa is right here, right now (I'm sure you've heard of his father - he's a BIG MAN in Nigeria) and he insists that he has Arab admixture.

What can I say, I can't tell him who he is!
 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mmmkay:

quote:

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She doesn't have naturally straight hair. Naturally
straight hair isn't wooly anywhere at the root.

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She appears to have a wavy/curly texture of hair.

Its not really "woolly" or "crunchy" as horus would say.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mmmkay:

quote:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women and extremely light women.


The boy refers to African hair that he doesn't like (ie. thinks is not straight enough for him) derogatorily as "crunchy".


This numbskull is the most pathetic creature to ever post on this forum.


But what else would one expect from a supposedly grown ass man who listens to "hip hop".

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I will admit, you do make some interesting observations sometimes.

How can you be "pro-black" and and yet openly admit to preferring light-skinned women?

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You know, Mmmkay you're alright but you're a cheeky cunt sometimes.

When did I *ever* say I liked white women? I generally don't say I don't like white women so as not to sound rude but fact is - white women do nothing for me. FACT: I find them repulsive most times. I'm sorry.

I might prefer (Lamb) Balangu to (Beef) Suya, but how does that imply that I like Chicken at all?
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Insults deleted - Henu

[ 29. December 2008, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 
Insults deleted - Henu

[ 29. December 2008, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:
*Science cannot be substituted by hearsay; rather, it tests one's ability to methodologically present material that is falsifiable, subject to scrutiny.

*As a matter of simple geography, west Africa comprises all that lies on the westward section of the continent; neither coastal northwest Africa, nor sub-Saharan west Africa limits what is west African.

*The individuals in the images presented are Malians.

*There is nothing remotely extraordinary about the skin pigmentations of these individuals, with respect to the sub-Saharan African continuum. If there is, a scientific demonstration of how so, would be in order.

*What specific long-held Fulani oral traditions relay that they are "mixed"; that is -- "mixed" in what sense? It goes without saying, that this is the 21st century; we all ought to be able to look beyond long scientifically-shattered and dead 19th century-conceived anthropological constructs.

*The urge to stereotype is precisely the sort of dogmatic mentality that motivated the creation of the "Forest Negro" archetype which was artificially confined to a geography as its only authentic habitat, that it could not ideally transcend -- aka sub-Saharan Africa, which is yet another bogus idealized concept -- i.e. short of simply meaning "below the Sahara", wherein any reality that otherwise didn't accomodate the idealization, was simply explained off as having come about through the agent of foreign transmission.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Herukhuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mmmkay:

quote:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women and extremely light women.


The boy refers to African hair that he doesn't like (ie. thinks is not straight enough for him) derogatorily as "crunchy".


This numbskull is the most pathetic creature to ever post on this forum.


But what else would one expect from a supposedly grown ass man who listens to "hip hop".

---

I will admit, you do make some interesting observations sometimes.

How can you be "pro-black" and and yet openly admit to preferring light-skinned women?

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You know, Mmmkay you're alright but you're a cheeky cunt sometimes.

When did I *ever* say I liked white women? I generally don't say I don't like white women so as not to sound rude but fact is - white women do nothing for me. FACT: I find them repulsive most times. I'm sorry.

I might prefer (Lamb) Balangu to (Beef) Suya, but how does that imply that I like Chicken at all?

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I don't really pay attention to argyle, but he's a entertaining and occasionally observant troll.

Though I did'nt appreciate that "cheeky cunt" comment I see now. But I didn't mean white, just lighter skinned.

Its cool. I ain't hatin on you my dude. Were cool.
 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mmmkay:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Herukhuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mmmkay:

quote:

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Originally posted by argyle104:
There is no way that anyone can reason with a person who not only hates his own women (Nigerian) and says openly and proudly that he likes white women and extremely light women.


The boy refers to African hair that he doesn't like (ie. thinks is not straight enough for him) derogatorily as "crunchy".


This numbskull is the most pathetic creature to ever post on this forum.


But what else would one expect from a supposedly grown ass man who listens to "hip hop".

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I will admit, you do make some interesting observations sometimes.

How can you be "pro-black" and and yet openly admit to preferring light-skinned women?

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You know, Mmmkay you're alright but you're a cheeky cunt sometimes.

When did I *ever* say I liked white women? I generally don't say I don't like white women so as not to sound rude but fact is - white women do nothing for me. FACT: I find them repulsive most times. I'm sorry.

I might prefer (Lamb) Balangu to (Beef) Suya, but how does that imply that I like Chicken at all?

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I don't really pay attention to argyle, but he's a entertaining and occasionally observant troll.

Though I did'nt appreciate that "cheeky cunt" comment I see now. But I didn't mean white, just lighter skinned.

Its cool. I ain't hatin on you my dude. Were cool.

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You're obviously trying to show&prove you're better than I am at subliminal patronization. You win.

Now get off my...
 

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Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
 

quote:

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]You're obviously trying to show&prove you're better than I am at subliminal patronization. You win.

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Nah I'm just tryin to squash needless beef.

We need to stay on page (?)

BTW I was never on your (nutz).

So lets call it a night.


 

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Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Come on Dude, you're ma boy. There's never no beef. I never said you were on my nutz.
 

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Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Herukhuti:
^ Indeed I was generalising about West Africans. It is not uncommon at all to find "straight haired" Africans in Nigeria. These are the Fulani types (and I'm sure some other ethnic groups I'm not aware of). It's just that in most parts of Nigeria, it is the "crunchy" hair type that most people have.

The average man on the street in Lagos, if you asked him, would tell you that the girl in the picture below is "mixed race" (presuming some Arab/Fulani/Hausa mixture).




But then again, the Fulanis are instrumental in spreading these rumors. They tend to believe they are "mixed" also.

I find it fascinating how people from Guyana would have the exact same hairtype as some Fulanis of Nigeria. The girl pictured above has the *exact* same skin tone and hair-type as my girl's younger sister. It really is a mystery (well not really for me - but I still find the phenomenon fascinating).

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Yeah, i find it fascinating too when i see Africans who look just like Afro Americans and others in the diaspora over here.

I saw an Afro-Mexican babe who looks like a few African ladies i've seen posted on here (mostly a few 'Somalis' but not just East Africans).

I've seen pictures posted particularly of alleged West Africans who look very similar to friends, fam, and me. This one picture matches my brother dead on. Not to mention i've met a few and basically only the accent and foreign [a subtle stranger (don't ask )] demeaner give it away.

Of course, often what we take in on peoples we take in from a left-brain, divisive, either/or type perspective which could be why most people don't seem to easily grasp the fact that race doesn't exist as a biological entity in today's humans. When we start using our right brains (i'm right-brained but just apply my self to retain specific facts discussed here) things start to clear up.
 

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Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boofer:
I think there are two big problems with the question:

1. Your own perception of Somali vs. "other" traits/phenotypes

2. The fact that you're assuming what the parents look like.

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The only problem is that those people are not mix Africans from the horn. They are not mix Africans at all. I can't believe people fell for this.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
I think part of the problem is that people do not realize that the Fulani are a HUGE ethnic group. The ones in the North are similar to some Tuaregs an d indeed have some mixture like some Tuareg groups. This mixture being intra African as well as non African. The point being that African features are so diverse that mixture is the norm among African groups. The main issue some people are concerned about are what 'features' are indigenous to Africa. Well, pretty much all of them, except white skin. So trying to find a non African source for certain African features, other than white skin, is primarily the result of ignorance. Human features and feature diversity are the OLDEST in Africa and it is FROM those features that LIGHT SKIN and WHITES get theirs from, not the other way around. The ONLY feature whites can give Africans is primarily WHITE SKIN. Thin lips are indigenous to Africa, thin noses, narrow faces and so on. THAT diversity does NOT come from Non Africans.

Anyway, most of the Fulanis I have seen look like this, and these images are from across Ghana, Nigeria and Mali:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/_leonid/417164427/

Mali(?):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandals/421646458/

Niger:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nygus/342987249/

Mali:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/_leonid/215693221/

Mali:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30462932@N07/2855859322/

Nigeria:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/abuja/172575198/


To me the most distinguishing feature about Fulani people is the nose. Nothing else says Fulani to me more than this one feature. Again, it is simply an example of the diversity of African features as opposed to some NON AFRICAN legacy.


None of these features are non African, especially when you realize they originate in East Africa:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/nygus/127678344/in/set-72157594210229942/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/nygus/127676250/in/set-72157594210229942/

Such features originate in Africa and can be found in all PARTS of Africa. So how on earth can they be claimed as non African? They can't. If you understand that ALL human diversity starts in Africa, then you will understand why such a statement is ludicrous. All humans, including whites, get most of their features as a result of being descended from black Africans, not vice versa.

And OF COURSE African Americans would look like Africans......... Duh.

African Americans have a WIDE range of diverse features that can be found all across Africa and it is BECAUSE they are African. How else did they get their features?
 

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Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 
Doug M, I don't see much distinction in the Fulani nose. I think what sets Fulani aparts is their language and culture. If the attire, dressing, adornments, hairstyle and tattoos/markings are remove they wouldn't be distinguishable or distinctive. 'Certain' fulani groups look distinctive such as the Woodabe. The Tuareg don't look distinctive to me only the so-called mix ones look distinctive.

Africans Americans mainly have Bantu features. Any features outside of that is due to admixture.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
In my eye, the Fulani I have seen all have very similar nose shapes. Of course that shape is not unique to Fulani, but it occurs quite often among them.

African Americans have diverse features and I am not talking about skin color. There is no one type of West African feature and it has nothing to do with being a Bantu. There are Nigerians with aquiline noses and features like East Africans and there are Nigerians with FULL lips and broad noses. There is no one type of West African feature and this is why there is so much diversity among African Americans. Bantu is a linguistic group that is or was spoken among hundreds of various ethnic groups in Africa. Bantu has absolutely nothing to do with African features as it is a language not a phenotype.

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

The only feature that is due to admixture in African Americans is white skin, because that is truly the only feature that is not indigenous to Africa.

West Africa and Sub Saharan Africa has hundreds of ethnic groups, hundreds of types of features and hundreds of types of cultures. That is a broad and diverse population of people from which African Americans derive their features from. A good example of this is Bernie Mac, Michael Jordan and Samuel Jackson. NONE of them have broad stereotypical Bantu features.

Nigerians



(Fulani of Nigeria)

http://flickr.com/photos/gdstone/17129191/




Hausa:




http://flickr.com/photos/janchan/sets/1021060/with/47745555/

Ghana:

 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Some mixed Africans in the Americas:

Afro Brazilians:











http://www.flickr.com/photos/beija-flor/sets/72157594437275578/with/335463126/

They still look pretty much African even if they are mixed.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Not disputing there may be post Triangular Trade
African in them but nothing in their features look
out of place for certain Amazonian populations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Some mixed Africans in the Americas:

Afro Brazilians:




They still look pretty much African even if they are mixed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
In my eye, the Fulani I have seen all have very similar nose shapes. Of course that shape is not unique to Fulani, but it occurs quite often among them.

African Americans have diverse features and I am not talking about skin color. There is no one type of West African feature and it has nothing to do with being a Bantu. There are Nigerians with aquiline noses and features like East Africans and there are Nigerians with FULL lips and broad noses. There is no one type of West African feature and this is why there is so much diversity among African Americans. Bantu is a linguistic group that is or was spoken among hundreds of various ethnic groups in Africa. Bantu has absolutely nothing to do with African features as it is a language not a phenotype.

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

The only feature that is due to admixture in African Americans is white skin, because that is truly the only feature that is not indigenous to Africa.

West Africa and Sub Saharan Africa has hundreds of ethnic groups, hundreds of types of features and hundreds of types of cultures. That is a broad and diverse population of people from which African Americans derive their features from. A good example of this is Bernie Mac, Michael Jordan and Samuel Jackson. NONE of them have broad stereotypical Bantu features.

Nigerians



(Fulani of Nigeria)

http://flickr.com/photos/gdstone/17129191/




Hausa:




http://flickr.com/photos/janchan/sets/1021060/with/47745555/

Ghana:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Not disputing there may be post Triangular Trade
African in them but nothing in their features look
out of place for certain Amazonian populations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Some mixed Africans in the Americas:

Afro Brazilians:




They still look pretty much African even if they are mixed.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Not disputing there may be post Triangular Trade
African in them but nothing in their features look
out of place for certain Amazonian populations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Some mixed Africans in the Americas:

Afro Brazilians:




They still look pretty much African even if they are mixed.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
In my eye, the Fulani I have seen all have very similar nose shapes. Of course that shape is not unique to Fulani, but it occurs quite often among them.

African Americans have diverse features and I am not talking about skin color. There is no one type of West African feature and it has nothing to do with being a Bantu. There are Nigerians with aquiline noses and features like East Africans and there are Nigerians with FULL lips and broad noses. There is no one type of West African feature and this is why there is so much diversity among African Americans. Bantu is a linguistic group that is or was spoken among hundreds of various ethnic groups in Africa. Bantu has absolutely nothing to do with African features as it is a language not a phenotype.

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

The only feature that is due to admixture in African Americans is white skin, because that is truly the only feature that is not indigenous to Africa.

West Africa and Sub Saharan Africa has hundreds of ethnic groups, hundreds of types of features and hundreds of types of cultures. That is a broad and diverse population of people from which African Americans derive their features from. A good example of this is Bernie Mac, Michael Jordan and Samuel Jackson. NONE of them have broad stereotypical Bantu features.

Nigerians



(Fulani of Nigeria)

http://flickr.com/photos/gdstone/17129191/




Hausa:




http://flickr.com/photos/janchan/sets/1021060/with/47745555/

Ghana:

---

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

It seems like you agreed with me. I have to disagree with the Bantu part. Bantu is not just a language. It is also a ethnic group of people who share similar culture, language, faith and/or religion and phenotype come into play. There is a such thing as a Bantu ethnic group and features/phenotype. Bantus are mainly broad nose, large thick lips, thick rough skin, and short nappy hair. You find these features MOSTLY in Bantu groups. African Americans mainly look like Bantus from Central and Southern Africa. Any phenotype outside of this is due to admixture. Our ancestors was not as diverse when they came to the America on the slave ship. They practically all looked the same. Let's not forget that our ancestors did not have long, flowing hair. It wasn't neither curly, wavy, straight and soft. Americans who have hair like that gets it from admixture. I know Africans have straight, soft, wavy, curly hair but they are not African Americans ancestors so we could not have got it from them.

---

And I am saying that you are completely wrong. African Americans have a wide range of features owing to the fact that they come from a wide range of groups across West Africa. And I also disagree because no anthropologist characterizes a single group of Africans as Bantu. If so, please find some up to date studies on these Bantu and the distinct Bantu features that they posses. Such concepts are simply old racist stereotypes propagated in America and Europe that have nothing to do with the TRUE diversity of African people. Africans speaking Bantu languages have a RANGE of features and the broad nose, big lipped variety of Africa is found among ALL African groups from North to South and East to West. Similarly you will also find the thin nosed, thin lipped variety of African in ALL PARTS of Africa. We often focus on East Africa as a place with many people with those types of features, but such features are found ALL ACROSS AFRICA.

African Americans look like Africans and that includes a wide range of African features.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Some Congolese

I guess this is what you mean by stereotypical Bantu:







But all Congolese or Central Africans don't look like that.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/theatrum-belli/sets/72157609118142953/with/3031923530/


 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Malians:















http://flickr.com/photos/osvaldo_zoom/sets/72157602139737793/

http://flickr.com/photos/osvaldo_zoom/sets/72157602130593640/


And that is just Mali. Similar diverse features can be found in ALL countries of Africa.

But going back to the title of the thread, if you aren't familiar with the diverse features of Africans, how can one say what features are UN African, other than white skin?

Of course, if you follow the historical racist anthropological typologies of whites, all black Africans have big huge lips and noses, when they don't and never have.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Just an example from South Africa, Bonnie Henna:






http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1710266624/nm1973790

Other south Africans:


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:010426_Pano_Kinder_auf_Auto-x.jpg


Omo people Ethiopia:





http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/sets/1188741/with/54848679/

Gondar people Ethiopia:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/sets/1227185/with/56648715/
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Doug M wrote:

quote:

---

African Americans have diverse features and I am not talking about skin color. There is no one type of West African feature and it has nothing to do with being a Bantu. There are Nigerians with aquiline noses and features like East Africans and there are Nigerians with FULL lips and broad noses. There is no one type of West African feature and this is why there is so much diversity among African Americans. Bantu is a linguistic group that is or was spoken among hundreds of various ethnic groups in Africa. Bantu has absolutely nothing to do with African features as it is a language not a phenotype.

---

quote:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by argyle104:
Also for those who wish to attain my level of intellect and scholarship, notice that Bettyboo never provides any facts or evidence to support his/her arguments.


His/her posts consist of nothing but adhoc racial fantasies.

This is why I am able to administer scholarly beatdowns to the imbecille on a regular basis.

---

quote:

---

argyle104 wrote:

Also for those who wish to attain my level of intellect and scholarship,...

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ROTFLMAOH @ this poor fool's delusion!


Insult deleted - Henu

[ 29. December 2008, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Djehuti wrote:

quote:

---

no valid answers, but only links to his 'google searches' instead of actual sources

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quote:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by argyle104:

So you're saying the exerpt below from the research that was provided in my scholarly links is a lie?

History of Bermuda
"In 1509, the Portuguese started to trade Arabian slaves because aside from ridding from those people, they also gained profit."

Now is your chance to refute the above with facts and evidence that directly refutes what the scholars have carefully researched.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
In my eye, the Fulani I have seen all have very similar nose shapes. Of course that shape is not unique to Fulani, but it occurs quite often among them.

African Americans have diverse features and I am not talking about skin color. There is no one type of West African feature and it has nothing to do with being a Bantu. There are Nigerians with aquiline noses and features like East Africans and there are Nigerians with FULL lips and broad noses. There is no one type of West African feature and this is why there is so much diversity among African Americans. Bantu is a linguistic group that is or was spoken among hundreds of various ethnic groups in Africa. Bantu has absolutely nothing to do with African features as it is a language not a phenotype.

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

The only feature that is due to admixture in African Americans is white skin, because that is truly the only feature that is not indigenous to Africa.

West Africa and Sub Saharan Africa has hundreds of ethnic groups, hundreds of types of features and hundreds of types of cultures. That is a broad and diverse population of people from which African Americans derive their features from. A good example of this is Bernie Mac, Michael Jordan and Samuel Jackson. NONE of them have broad stereotypical Bantu features.

Nigerians



(Fulani of Nigeria)

http://flickr.com/photos/gdstone/17129191/




Hausa:




http://flickr.com/photos/janchan/sets/1021060/with/47745555/

Ghana:

---

African Americans look like Africans because they are Africans. Period. African Americans are diverse just like Africans are diverse. Bantu has nothing to do with it.

It seems like you agreed with me. I have to disagree with the Bantu part. Bantu is not just a language. It is also a ethnic group of people who share similar culture, language, faith and/or religion and phenotype come into play. There is a such thing as a Bantu ethnic group and features/phenotype. Bantus are mainly broad nose, large thick lips, thick rough skin, and short nappy hair. You find these features MOSTLY in Bantu groups. African Americans mainly look like Bantus from Central and Southern Africa. Any phenotype outside of this is due to admixture. Our ancestors was not as diverse when they came to the America on the slave ship. They practically all looked the same. Let's not forget that our ancestors did not have long, flowing hair. It wasn't neither curly, wavy, straight and soft. Americans who have hair like that gets it from admixture. I know Africans have straight, soft, wavy, curly hair but they are not African Americans ancestors so we could not have got it from them.

---

And I am saying that you are completely wrong. African Americans have a wide range of features owing to the fact that they come from a wide range of groups across West Africa. And I also disagree because no anthropologist characterizes a single group of Africans as Bantu. If so, please find some up to date studies on these Bantu and the distinct Bantu features that they posses. Such concepts are simply old racist stereotypes propagated in America and Europe that have nothing to do with the TRUE diversity of African people. Africans speaking Bantu languages have a RANGE of features and the broad nose, big lipped variety of Africa is found among ALL African groups from North to South and East to West. Similarly you will also find the thin nosed, thin lipped variety of African in ALL PARTS of Africa. We often focus on East Africa as a place with many people with those types of features, but such features are found ALL ACROSS AFRICA.

African Americans look like Africans and that includes a wide range of African features.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by argyle104:
Also for those who wish to attain my level of intellect and scholarship, notice that Bettyboo never provides any facts or evidence to support his/her arguments.


His/her posts consist of nothing but adhoc racial fantasies.

This is why I am able to administer scholarly beatdowns to her on a regular basis.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I am saying that I am completely right! Bantu is not just a language; it consists of ethnic groups that share the same language, culture, religion/faith, food, music, and phenotype. Majority of African-American comes from Central and Southern African mainly from these Bantu groups. MOST bantus have thick, rough skin, broad nose, large lips, and short nappy hair. African-Americans ancestors weren't as diverse in looks. They all practically looked the same - sharing the same phenotype and features. Any African-American with straight, narrow, thin nose and soft straight, wavy, or curly hair got it from admixture.

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You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. African Americans come from all over Africa and the African Diaspora in the Americas. They have diverse looks and features. Bantu is not an anthropological term used in ANY sense other than as a language. It is not used to define phenotype, culture or anything else. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find much about Bantu in any book of African cultures. What you WILL find is the description of VARIOUS groups with various cultures and some of whom who speak Bantu languages.

Like I said, please provide scholarly sources for your definition of Bantu as being more than a linguistic grouping. You will find none.

Case in point, here are some South Africans, where is the BANTU features among them:













From: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricoons/sets/72157610950898054/?page=6
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Insults deleted - Henu

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I am saying that I am completely right! Bantu is not just a language; it consists of ethnic groups that share the same language, culture, religion/faith, food, music, and phenotype. Majority of African-American comes from Central and Southern African mainly from these Bantu groups. MOST bantus have thick, rough skin, broad nose, large lips, and short nappy hair. African-Americans ancestors weren't as diverse in looks. They all practically looked the same - sharing the same phenotype and features. Any African-American with straight, narrow, thin nose and soft straight, wavy, or curly hair got it from admixture.

---

You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. African Americans come from all over Africa and the African Diaspora in the Americas. They have diverse looks and features. Bantu is not an anthropological term used in ANY sense other than as a language. It is not used to define phenotype, culture or anything else. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find much about Bantu in any book of African cultures. What you WILL find is the description of VARIOUS groups with various cultures and some of whom who speak Bantu languages.

Like I said, please provide scholarly sources for your definition of Bantu as being more than a linguistic grouping. You will find none.

Case in point, here are some South Africans, where is the BANTU features among them:













From: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricoons/sets/72157610950898054/?page=6

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

---

And I have asked you for a scholarly source for such a statement. The fact is that there IS NO scholarly basis for such a belief because no scholar claims that Africans in Central and Southern Africa are part of a single Bantu ethnic group with a common phenotype unique and distinct to them as Bantus.

Zulu is a Bantu language, and ZULUS were not a major part of the African slave trade. Zulu features are VARIED just like ALL AFRICANS.

Zulus:










There is NO BANTU feature and Bantu is a language family not a ethnic group or phenotype.

quote:

---

Bantu is a large category of African languages. It also is used as a general label for over 400 ethnic groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, from Cameroon across Central Africa and Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. These peoples share a common language family sub-group, the Bantu languages, and broad ancestral culture, but Bantu languages as a whole are as diverse as Indo-European languages.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups.

---

quote:

---

Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype.

---

quote:

---

African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same.

---

quote:

---

Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin.

---

Personally, I do think bantu groups have some of these features on average, but certain features are relative and based on your own ideas.

Having a broad nose is some-what relative. Most people do not have very wide noses by my own standards. In comparison to other populations, Bantus have thinner noses than many New Guinean and Aboriginal Australians I've seen, but wider than many Europeans I've seen. In other words, it seems that thinking such noses are wide is relative to a European standard.

As for lips, I'd agree that many african populations have fairly large lips relative to non african populations. Admittedly, this is not true for all africans, even within such groups that are generally perceived to have such. Also, relatively large lips are not specific to bantus either, as such a feature can be found in people who speak Afro Asiatic, Nilotic and Niger-Congo A languages as well.


 

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Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
 
The features of Bantu speakers are so diverse that early Eurocentrists thought there to be different Bantu 'races', some of which were mixed.

Nice pictures as always ImageMaster (Doug) but give a brotha a chance to catch up on copying them! (Thinking of starting compilations of different ethnies on youtube).
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
No problem bro. But I am not doing anything other than searching the web. There are tons of these images out there.
 

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Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
 
You're right.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Yeah, but you got mad skills, you locate and migrate.
Suckuzz no do that son, so your praise goes not unsung.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
No problem bro. But I am not doing anything other than searching the web. There are tons of these images out there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

---

And I have asked you for a scholarly source for such a statement. The fact is that there IS NO scholarly basis for such a belief because no scholar claims that Africans in Central and Southern Africa are part of a single Bantu ethnic group with a common phenotype unique and distinct to them as Bantus.

Zulu is a Bantu language, and ZULUS were not a major part of the African slave trade. Zulu features are VARIED just like ALL AFRICANS.

Zulus:










There is NO BANTU feature and Bantu is a language family not a ethnic group or phenotype.

quote:

---

Bantu is a large category of African languages. It also is used as a general label for over 400 ethnic groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, from Cameroon across Central Africa and Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. These peoples share a common language family sub-group, the Bantu languages, and broad ancestral culture, but Bantu languages as a whole are as diverse as Indo-European languages.

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples

And any history of the Slave trade in America makes it clear that most American slaves came from West African peoples not central or Southern Africa. Again, I would love to see you provide some scholarly source for 1) Bantu features and 2) TransAtlantic slaves originating in Central and Southern Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

---

And I have asked you for a scholarly source for such a statement. The fact is that there IS NO scholarly basis for such a belief because no scholar claims that Africans in Central and Southern Africa are part of a single Bantu ethnic group with a common phenotype unique and distinct to them as Bantus.

Zulu is a Bantu language, and ZULUS were not a major part of the African slave trade. Zulu features are VARIED just like ALL AFRICANS.

Zulus:










There is NO BANTU feature and Bantu is a language family not a ethnic group or phenotype.

quote:

---

Bantu is a large category of African languages. It also is used as a general label for over 400 ethnic groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, from Cameroon across Central Africa and Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. These peoples share a common language family sub-group, the Bantu languages, and broad ancestral culture, but Bantu languages as a whole are as diverse as Indo-European languages.

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples

And any history of the Slave trade in America makes it clear that most American slaves came from West African peoples not central or Southern Africa. Again, I would love to see you provide some scholarly source for 1) Bantu features and 2) TransAtlantic slaves originating in Central and Southern Africa.

---

What the fvck are you talking about? You know in got damn well I didn't say any of that shyt you wrote above. Bantus are NOT just a LANGUAGE group. They are also ethnic groups that share the same language, food, culture, dress/attire, music, art, and phenotype. What fvcking "scholarly" report are you looking for? Give me a "scholarly" report that Bantus are only a language group and does not relate in any way to an ethnic group with common/same/similar, culture, language, food, music, dance, dress/attire, and/or phenotype and I then will respond of how you would like me to. Majority of African-Americans ancestors came from Central and Southern Africa, not West Africa.

---

quote:

---

The Atlantic slave trade, also known as the transatlantic slave trade, was the trade of African people supplied to the colonies of the New World that occurred in and around the Atlantic Ocean. It lasted from the 16th century to the 19th century. Most slaves were shipped from West Africa and Central Africa and taken to the New World (primarily Brazil[1]). Generally slaves were obtained through coastal trading with Africans, though some were captured by European slave traders through raids and kidnapping.[2][3] Most contemporary historians estimate that between 9.4 and 12 million[4][5] Africans arrived in the New World,[6][7] although the number of people taken from their homestead is considerably higher.[8][9]

Slave Market Regions and Participation

There were eight principal areas used by Europeans to buy and ship slaves to the Western Hemisphere. The number of slaves sold to the new world varied throughout the slave trade. As for the distribution of slaves from regions of activity, certain areas produced far more slaves than others. Between 1650 and 1900, 10.24 million African slaves arrived in the Americas from the following regions in the following proportions:[24]

* Senegambia (Senegal and The Gambia): 4.8%
* Upper Guinea (Guinea-Bissau, Guinea and Sierra Leone): 4.1%
* Windward Coast (Liberia and Cote d' Ivoire): 1.8%
* Gold Coast (Ghana): 10.4%
* Bight of Benin (Togo, Benin and Nigeria west of the Niger Delta): 20.2%
* Bight of Biafra (Nigeria east of the Niger Delta, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon): 14.6%
* West Central Africa (Republic of Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola): 39.4%
* Southeastern Africa (Mozambique and Madagascar): 4.7%

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Yeah, but you got mad skills, you locate and migrate.
Suckuzz no do that son, so your praise goes not unsung.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
No problem bro. But I am not doing anything other than searching the web. There are tons of these images out there.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

And you are a blabbering Prink. I didn't have to answer anything you fvcking idiot! YOU must be neglected because your azz is back at the computer again. "Degrading 'intellectual' discussions"? You can't be serious.

---

Woe, woe, hold up now! Either you mistook my reply to Argay as a reply to you, or your just being a tad bit defesensive about Argay as he's your boyfriend.

...Or perhaps you've missed your daily dose of pyschotropic drugs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

---

And I have asked you for a scholarly source for such a statement. The fact is that there IS NO scholarly basis for such a belief because no scholar claims that Africans in Central and Southern Africa are part of a single Bantu ethnic group with a common phenotype unique and distinct to them as Bantus.

Zulu is a Bantu language, and ZULUS were not a major part of the African slave trade. Zulu features are VARIED just like ALL AFRICANS.

Zulus:










There is NO BANTU feature and Bantu is a language family not a ethnic group or phenotype.

quote:

---

Bantu is a large category of African languages. It also is used as a general label for over 400 ethnic groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, from Cameroon across Central Africa and Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. These peoples share a common language family sub-group, the Bantu languages, and broad ancestral culture, but Bantu languages as a whole are as diverse as Indo-European languages.

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples

And any history of the Slave trade in America makes it clear that most American slaves came from West African peoples not central or Southern Africa. Again, I would love to see you provide some scholarly source for 1) Bantu features and 2) TransAtlantic slaves originating in Central and Southern Africa.

---

What the fvck are you talking about? You know in got damn well I didn't say any of that shyt you wrote above. Bantus are NOT just a LANGUAGE group. They are also ethnic groups that share the same language, food, culture, dress/attire, music, art, and phenotype. What fvcking "scholarly" report are you looking for? Give me a "scholarly" report that Bantus are only a language group and does not relate in any way to an ethnic group with common/same/similar, culture, language, food, music, dance, dress/attire, and/or phenotype and I then will respond of how you would like me to. Majority of African-Americans ancestors came from Central and Southern Africa, not West Africa.

---

Dude. The system of Atlantic slavery and the origins of those slaves is widely documented. Stop writing so many fVcked up words and start learning to read:

quote:

---

The Atlantic slave trade, also known as the transatlantic slave trade, was the trade of African people supplied to the colonies of the New World that occurred in and around the Atlantic Ocean. It lasted from the 16th century to the 19th century. Most slaves were shipped from West Africa and Central Africa and taken to the New World (primarily Brazil[1]). Generally slaves were obtained through coastal trading with Africans, though some were captured by European slave traders through raids and kidnapping.[2][3] Most contemporary historians estimate that between 9.4 and 12 million[4][5] Africans arrived in the New World,[6][7] although the number of people taken from their homestead is considerably higher.[8][9]

Slave Market Regions and Participation

There were eight principal areas used by Europeans to buy and ship slaves to the Western Hemisphere. The number of slaves sold to the new world varied throughout the slave trade. As for the distribution of slaves from regions of activity, certain areas produced far more slaves than others. Between 1650 and 1900, 10.24 million African slaves arrived in the Americas from the following regions in the following proportions:[24]

* Senegambia (Senegal and The Gambia): 4.8%
* Upper Guinea (Guinea-Bissau, Guinea and Sierra Leone): 4.1%
* Windward Coast (Liberia and Cote d' Ivoire): 1.8%
* Gold Coast (Ghana): 10.4%
* Bight of Benin (Togo, Benin and Nigeria west of the Niger Delta): 20.2%
* Bight of Biafra (Nigeria east of the Niger Delta, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon): 14.6%
* West Central Africa (Republic of Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola): 39.4%
* Southeastern Africa (Mozambique and Madagascar): 4.7%

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
The features of Bantu speakers are so diverse that early Eurocentrists thought there to be different Bantu 'races', some of which were mixed.

Nice pictures as always ImageMaster (Doug) but give a brotha a chance to catch up on copying them! (Thinking of starting compilations of different ethnies on youtube).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
But I wasn't addressing you! So don't get schizo with me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
^LOL! Thanks a lot. Most African-Americans are descendants of Bantus mainly from Central and Southern Africa, not West Africa.

---

quote:

---

Santería is one of the syncretic religions. It is based on the West African religions brought to the New World by slaves imported to the Caribbean to work the sugar plantations. These slaves carried with them their own religious traditions, including a tradition of trance for communicating with their ancestors and deities, animal sacrifice and the practice of sacred drumming and dance. Those slaves who landed in the Caribbean, Central and South America were nominally converted to Christianity. However, they were able to preserve some of their traditions by fusing together various Dahomean, baKongo (Congo) and Lukumi beliefs and rituals and by syncretizing these with elements from the surrounding Christian culture. In Cuba this religious tradition has evolved into what we now recognize as Santería. In 2001, there were an estimated 22,000 practitioners in the USA alone [2], but the number may be higher as some practitioners may be reluctant to disclose their religion on a government census or to an academic researcher. Of those residing in the USA, some are fully committed priests and priestesses, others are "godchildren" or members of a particular house-tradition, and many are clients seeking help with their everyday problems. Many are of Hispanic and Caribbean descent but as the religion moves out of the inner cities and into the suburbs; a growing number are of African-American and European-American heritage. As the If á religion of Africa was recreated in the Americas it was transformed.

---

quote:

---

African Influences
Gris-gris

Voodoo was brought to the French colony Louisiana through the slave trade. From 1719 and 1731, the majority of African slaves came directly from what is now Benin, West Africa, bringing with them their cultural practices, language, and religious beliefs rooted in spirit and ancestor worship. Their knowledge of herbs, poisons, and the ritual creation of charms and amulets, intended to protect ones self or harm others, became key elements of Louisiana Voodoo.[1]

The slave community quickly acquired a strong presence in Louisiana. The colony was not a stable society when slaves arrived, which allowed African culture to maintain a prominent position in the slave community. (160) According to a census of 1731-1732, the ratio of African slaves to whites was over two to one. [1] The ownership of slaves was concentrated into the hands of few whites, facilitating the preservation of African culture.[1] Unlike other areas of active slave trade, there was little separation in Louisiana between families, culture, and languages.[1] . The Embargo Act of 1808 ended all slave imports to Louisiana.[2] Authorities promoted the growth of the slave population by prohibiting by law the separation of families. Parents were sold together with their children under fourteen years of age.[1] The high mortality of the slave trade brought its survivors together with a sense of solidarity.(160) The absence of fragmentation in the slave community along with the kinship system produced by the bond created by the difficulties of slavery resulted in a “coherent, functional, well integrated, autonomous, and self confident slave community.” [1] ) As a result African culture and spirituality did not die out, but rather thrived in French Creole culture.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
^LOL! Thanks a lot. Most African-Americans are descendants of Bantus mainly from Central and Southern Africa, not West Africa.

---

LOL! Is right, you seem to not be able to read. Most slaves in the Americas came from West Africa, from slave ports in West Africa. But of course you will see what you want to see. Certainly you must be joking if you expect anyone to believe that you are serious.

quote:

---

Santería is one of the syncretic religions. It is based on the West African religions brought to the New World by slaves imported to the Caribbean to work the sugar plantations. These slaves carried with them their own religious traditions, including a tradition of trance for communicating with their ancestors and deities, animal sacrifice and the practice of sacred drumming and dance. Those slaves who landed in the Caribbean, Central and South America were nominally converted to Christianity. However, they were able to preserve some of their traditions by fusing together various Dahomean, baKongo (Congo) and Lukumi beliefs and rituals and by syncretizing these with elements from the surrounding Christian culture. In Cuba this religious tradition has evolved into what we now recognize as Santería. In 2001, there were an estimated 22,000 practitioners in the USA alone [2], but the number may be higher as some practitioners may be reluctant to disclose their religion on a government census or to an academic researcher. Of those residing in the USA, some are fully committed priests and priestesses, others are "godchildren" or members of a particular house-tradition, and many are clients seeking help with their everyday problems. Many are of Hispanic and Caribbean descent but as the religion moves out of the inner cities and into the suburbs; a growing number are of African-American and European-American heritage. As the If á religion of Africa was recreated in the Americas it was transformed.

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santeria

quote:

---

African Influences
Gris-gris

Voodoo was brought to the French colony Louisiana through the slave trade. From 1719 and 1731, the majority of African slaves came directly from what is now Benin, West Africa, bringing with them their cultural practices, language, and religious beliefs rooted in spirit and ancestor worship. Their knowledge of herbs, poisons, and the ritual creation of charms and amulets, intended to protect ones self or harm others, became key elements of Louisiana Voodoo.[1]

The slave community quickly acquired a strong presence in Louisiana. The colony was not a stable society when slaves arrived, which allowed African culture to maintain a prominent position in the slave community. (160) According to a census of 1731-1732, the ratio of African slaves to whites was over two to one. [1] The ownership of slaves was concentrated into the hands of few whites, facilitating the preservation of African culture.[1] Unlike other areas of active slave trade, there was little separation in Louisiana between families, culture, and languages.[1] . The Embargo Act of 1808 ended all slave imports to Louisiana.[2] Authorities promoted the growth of the slave population by prohibiting by law the separation of families. Parents were sold together with their children under fourteen years of age.[1] The high mortality of the slave trade brought its survivors together with a sense of solidarity.(160) The absence of fragmentation in the slave community along with the kinship system produced by the bond created by the difficulties of slavery resulted in a “coherent, functional, well integrated, autonomous, and self confident slave community.” [1] ) As a result African culture and spirituality did not die out, but rather thrived in French Creole culture.

---

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Voodoo

---

quote:

---

The history of the European seaborne slave trade with Africa goes back 50 years prior to Columbus' initial voyage to the Americas. It began with the Portuguese, who went to West Africa in search of gold. The first Europeans to come to Africa's West Coast to trade were funded by Prince Henry, the famous Portuguese patron, who hoped to bring riches to Portugal. The purpose of the exploration: to expand European geographic knowledge, to find the source of prized African gold, and to locate a possible sea route to valuable Asian spices.

n 1441, for the first time, Portuguese sailors obtained gold dust from traders on the western coast of Africa. The following year, Portuguese explorers returned from Africa with more gold dust and another cargo: ten Africans.

Forty years after that first human cargo traveled to Portugal, Portuguese sailors gained permission from a local African leader to build a trading outpost and storehouse on Africa's Guinea coast. It was near a region that had been mined for gold for many years and was called Elmina, which means "the mine" in Portuguese. Although originally built for trade in gold and ivory and other resources, Elmina was the first of many trading posts built by Europeans along Africa's western coast that would also come to export slaves.

---

From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr1.html
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Why not? According to Argyle African Americans are largely descended from peoples from every part of the continent including North Africa and East Africa!

Insult deleted - Henu

[ 29. December 2008, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Henu ]
 

---

Posted by Boofer (Member # 15638) on :
 
Wow. Bettyboo, go get a shrink. something's seriously wrong. Denial is never a good sign. I can't fathom why anyone would be in denial that the majority of African Americans come from West Africa.
 

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Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
 
^LOL. Some may likewise argue that the American
woman shown below has absolutely no West African
ancestry..


 

---

Posted by Narmer Menes (Member # 16122) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

---

Wow, I've never seen such a degree of idiocy excrete from one human being in a long time. I hope you're not African American, because your knowledge of the Slave Trade and Colonisation is shocking. Firstly, your 'Bantu' phenotype description is not only insulting, but its absolute bullshit. On an academic level, the people's of West, South and Central Africa are so diverse that perscribing a single phenotype is one of the most idiotic exercises any budding academicians could try to do. Let me give you an example, the people of Southern Nigeria (Yoruba) peoples bare closer physical resemblance to the peoples of East African Sudan than they do to their Northerly neighbours (Igbo's). The Igbo's are a predominantly light skinned peoples (similar looking to mixed African's) but they are certainly indigenous. The southerly Yoruba's on the other hand are darker, and match the more typical dark skinned look of most of West Africa. The problem is that people of Sudan, certainly in Western Sudan are actually darker than peoples of Yoruba tribes and look more closely related to them than peoples to their immediate north in Nigeria. To add to that Southern Africa does not only consist of Bantu Speaking tribes... the Khoisan are indigenous to South Africa and are predominantly much lighter (Some would argue a yellowy-brown complexion) than the Zulu's, however, their noses are considerably broader and their hair has much tighter curls than that of the Zulu. Similarly, the fulani of North West, West and Central Africa come in all shapes and sizes and skin tones, some with considerably narrow noses and lips. They sometimes have looser hair that can be mistakingly considered a result of mixing, but it is in fact indigenous to Africa. The Hause people still possess a completely different phenotype to the Bantu speaking peoples of Western Africa, some taking on an Easterly 'horn' like appearance, with darker narrow lips and a browner complexion...

In all, i could go on and talk about 100's of different looking Africans that populate West, Central and Southern Africa, and as a result ended up being taken accross the atlantic as slaves. Slaves were a mix of ALL of these peoples, not just Bantu-derived tribes... the reason for America's diversity amongst its AA community obviously has some route in mixing (both forced and willing), but also can be attested to the fact that African's always have been and always will be a diverse people! There was no exclusive selection of Bantu-derived tribes when the slave trade took place, so keep your hateful racist jibes to yourself.

NB: in regards to 'extra thick lips, nappy hair, and rough skin'... **** YOU, retard. Dark skinned African's have the smoothest skin you will EVER see in your life, and it stays that way for DECADES, unlike your acne-prone crowsfeetat20 kind! You are the worst kind of racist. How do you adjudge 'thick' skin anyway... bloody moron. Next time, read a book before posting your retarded bullshit on the internet for all to see and ridicule your lack of intelligence...
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Some horn Africans possibly displaying aboriginal Arab, European, Egyptian and Indian features:


From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:An_Afar_nomad.jpg













From: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/sets/72157603646908778/with/2180298864/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_moz/1190688309/
 

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Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^ Possibly they have some of those mixes,
especially in areas of more Arab or other
foreign settlement, or where the slave trade
was stronger. But the other probability is that
they are part of built-in native diversity.

Narrow noses for example, are common in many
people further south in East Africa,
and have been found among very old East African
populations at the Gamble's Cave Complex in
Kenya (Hiernaux 1975, Keita, 1990, 2004). They
do not depend at all on any foreign migration
to Africa. and the "dreadlock" style hair is
sometimes found among the Massai.

So those exotic looks, if they can be so
called, may represent nothing more than
a bunch of routine native African variants.
Heck some of the folks above look like routine
Fulani variants from West Africa.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
I don't see why mixture would even come into the equation concerning the photos above, if that is what you are referring to. They aren't even really exotic.

Care to explain why you see mixture here? I don't see anything in the features of the people above that strikes me as particularly NON African or Arab.
 

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Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 
On the Atlantic Trade:

The Atlantic trade like any other business was run on the most efficient lines when possible.

Thus it made more economic sense in terms of distance, logistics, etc. to transport the captives bound for North America, Central America and the Antilles from West Africa proper. Those bound for South America--Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Argentina, Ecuador, etc. were dragged in from Angola, Mozambique and the Congo.

But there still were substantial numbers brought in from West Africa--a non-Bantu part of Africa. Yorubas and Hausas made up a large part of the captives brought into North East Brazil--which explains the fact that the Brazilian fold religion of candomble is essentially Yoruba metaphysics with an overlay of Christianity.

There were many revolts in North East Brazil. And some were so serious that the rebellious captives were shipped back to West Africa--where they came from. Hence there is a community of Nigerians living in Lagos who are called "Brazilian Yoruba"--and though they has been much intermarriage the old Portugese surnames still survive to some extent. Note the annual Bahia(Brazil)-Osogbo(Nigeria) festival held in Osogbo--where Brazilians of Yoruba ancestry make the trip for rituals and festivities.

The same holds for the West African counry of Benin--where the Brazilian returnees were also transported to.
 

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Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 
Re "Mixtures":

I guess it's a quirk of the human mind that facial traits that seem to be intermediate between what the mind assumes to be extremes are assumed to be the result of some hypothetical mixture.

The curious thing about this is that it seems to apply only to Africans. I chalk that down to the strange stranglehold that Eurocentric thinking has on most individuals. Now that's some kind of powerful Euro magic.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
None of those images are the least bit 'mixed' looking. Sounds like to me someone may be just talking to talk as opposed to following any sort of real logical analysis of photographs.

LOL!

But it is true that many people talk about 'mixture' without defining HOW such mixtures are identified. Looking at pictures of Africans no matter how black cannot tell you how much mixture they have in their background. A dark skinned person could have recent ancestry from outside of Africa and still be dark skinned and look no different from any other non mixed person to boot.
The same goes for some white folks as well.
 

---

Posted by Heru-Tunde (Member # 16164) on :
 
originally posted by narmer nemes

Wow, I've never seen such a degree of idiocy excrete from one human being in a long time. I hope you're not African American, because your knowledge of the Slave Trade and Colonisation is shocking. Firstly, your 'Bantu' phenotype description is not only insulting, but its absolute bullshit. On an academic level, the people's of West, South and Central Africa are so diverse that perscribing a single phenotype is one of the most idiotic exercises any budding academicians could try to do. Let me give you an example, the people of Southern Nigeria (Yoruba) peoples bare closer physical resemblance to the peoples of East African Sudan than they do to their Northerly neighbours (Igbo's). The Igbo's are a predominantly light skinned peoples (similar looking to mixed African's) but they are certainly indigenous. The southerly Yoruba's on the other hand are darker, and match the more typical dark skinned look of most of West Africa. The problem is that people of Sudan, certainly in Western Sudan are actually darker than peoples of Yoruba tribes and look more closely related to them than peoples to their immediate north in Nigeria. To add to that Southern Africa does not only consist of Bantu Speaking tribes... the Khoisan are indigenous to South Africa and are predominantly much lighter (Some would argue a yellowy-brown complexion) than the Zulu's, however, their noses are considerably broader and their hair has much tighter curls than that of the Zulu. Similarly, the fulani of North West, West and Central Africa come in all shapes and sizes and skin tones, some with considerably narrow noses and lips. They sometimes have looser hair that can be mistakingly considered a result of mixing, but it is in fact indigenous to Africa. The Hause people still possess a completely different phenotype to the Bantu speaking peoples of Western Africa, some taking on an Easterly 'horn' like appearance, with darker narrow lips and a browner complexion...

In all, i could go on and talk about 100's of different looking Africans that populate West, Central and Southern Africa, and as a result ended up being taken accross the atlantic as slaves. Slaves were a mix of ALL of these peoples, not just Bantu-derived tribes... the reason for America's diversity amongst its AA community obviously has some route in mixing (both forced and willing), but also can be attested to the fact that African's always have been and always will be a diverse people! There was no exclusive selection of Bantu-derived tribes when the slave trade took place, so keep your hateful racist jibes to yourself.

NB: in regards to 'extra thick lips, nappy hair, and rough skin'... **** YOU, retard. Dark skinned African's have the smoothest skin you will EVER see in your life, and it stays that way for DECADES, unlike your acne-prone crowsfeetat20 kind! You are the worst kind of racist. How do you adjudge 'thick' skin anyway... bloody moron. Next time, read a book before posting your retarded bullshit on the internet for all to see and ridicule your lack of intelligence...

sorry im new to the forum and i'm having a problem with qutoing directly from the person you want to, but on that point you couldn't be more right i'm from nigeria myself and im evidence to the claims you make, although im not entirely sure about the quote you make that igbos tend to be lighter than yorubas, although there is obvious differences between tribes that live side by side in the same country, yet have a more simlar cultrue to african tribes outside the country, i believe is to due with the fact that yorubas are not indgenous to nigeria, as are hausas, different tribes migrated to the land at later dates creating what we now see as modern day nigeria, many historians say that yoruba people came from upper egypt, sudan or yemen, those are the places that are normally mentioned.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Boofer:

Wow. Bettyboo, go get a shrink. something's seriously wrong. Denial is never a good sign. I can't fathom why anyone would be in denial that the majority of African Americans come from West Africa.

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Actually, Bettyboo is denial about alot of things, even the existence of dinosaurs!

LOL
 

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Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
And as is now painfully obvious Bettyboo is a broke record who thinks that repeating the same thing over and over will make it true. That is a sure sign of a mental case or someone with a serious problem with facts.

I ask for evidence to back up claims and there is none. Therefore, serious discussion with someone such as yourself is a waste of time.

quote:

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The history of the European seaborne slave trade with Africa goes back 50 years prior to Columbus' initial voyage to the Americas. It began with the Portuguese, who went to West Africa in search of gold. The first Europeans to come to Africa's West Coast to trade were funded by Prince Henry, the famous Portuguese patron, who hoped to bring riches to Portugal. The purpose of the exploration: to expand European geographic knowledge, to find the source of prized African gold, and to locate a possible sea route to valuable Asian spices.

n 1441, for the first time, Portuguese sailors obtained gold dust from traders on the western coast of Africa. The following year, Portuguese explorers returned from Africa with more gold dust and another cargo: ten Africans.

Forty years after that first human cargo traveled to Portugal, Portuguese sailors gained permission from a local African leader to build a trading outpost and storehouse on Africa's Guinea coast. It was near a region that had been mined for gold for many years and was called Elmina, which means "the mine" in Portuguese. Although originally built for trade in gold and ivory and other resources, Elmina was the first of many trading posts built by Europeans along Africa's western coast that would also come to export slaves.

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From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr1.html

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quote:

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Originally posted by Heru-Tunde:
originally posted by narmer nemes

Wow, I've never seen such a degree of idiocy excrete from one human being in a long time. I hope you're not African American, because your knowledge of the Slave Trade and Colonisation is shocking. Firstly, your 'Bantu' phenotype description is not only insulting, but its absolute bullshit. On an academic level, the people's of West, South and Central Africa are so diverse that perscribing a single phenotype is one of the most idiotic exercises any budding academicians could try to do. Let me give you an example, the people of Southern Nigeria (Yoruba) peoples bare closer physical resemblance to the peoples of East African Sudan than they do to their Northerly neighbours (Igbo's). The Igbo's are a predominantly light skinned peoples (similar looking to mixed African's) but they are certainly indigenous. The southerly Yoruba's on the other hand are darker, and match the more typical dark skinned look of most of West Africa. The problem is that people of Sudan, certainly in Western Sudan are actually darker than peoples of Yoruba tribes and look more closely related to them than peoples to their immediate north in Nigeria. To add to that Southern Africa does not only consist of Bantu Speaking tribes... the Khoisan are indigenous to South Africa and are predominantly much lighter (Some would argue a yellowy-brown complexion) than the Zulu's, however, their noses are considerably broader and their hair has much tighter curls than that of the Zulu. Similarly, the fulani of North West, West and Central Africa come in all shapes and sizes and skin tones, some with considerably narrow noses and lips. They sometimes have looser hair that can be mistakingly considered a result of mixing, but it is in fact indigenous to Africa. The Hause people still possess a completely different phenotype to the Bantu speaking peoples of Western Africa, some taking on an Easterly 'horn' like appearance, with darker narrow lips and a browner complexion...

In all, i could go on and talk about 100's of different looking Africans that populate West, Central and Southern Africa, and as a result ended up being taken accross the atlantic as slaves. Slaves were a mix of ALL of these peoples, not just Bantu-derived tribes... the reason for America's diversity amongst its AA community obviously has some route in mixing (both forced and willing), but also can be attested to the fact that African's always have been and always will be a diverse people! There was no exclusive selection of Bantu-derived tribes when the slave trade took place, so keep your hateful racist jibes to yourself.

NB: in regards to 'extra thick lips, nappy hair, and rough skin'... **** YOU, retard. Dark skinned African's have the smoothest skin you will EVER see in your life, and it stays that way for DECADES, unlike your acne-prone crowsfeetat20 kind! You are the worst kind of racist. How do you adjudge 'thick' skin anyway... bloody moron. Next time, read a book before posting your retarded bullshit on the internet for all to see and ridicule your lack of intelligence...

sorry im new to the forum and i'm having a problem with qutoing directly from the person you want to, but on that point you couldn't be more right i'm from nigeria myself and im evidence to the claims you make, although im not entirely sure about the quote you make that igbos tend to be lighter than yorubas, although there is obvious differences between tribes that live side by side in the same country, yet have a more simlar cultrue to african tribes outside the country, i believe is to due with the fact that yorubas are not indgenous to nigeria, as are hausas, different tribes migrated to the land at later dates creating what we now see as modern day nigeria, many historians say that yoruba people came from upper egypt, sudan or yemen, those are the places that are normally mentioned.

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What the fvck you are babbling about. You hyper-sensitive emotional african ape. The Bantus share the same/similar phenotype. Your post is 200 sentences and run-on sentences too long.
 

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Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
 
Bettyboo (Mathilda)

You are highly ignorant and it's quite obvious that you aren't black. 100% of black people know that black skin is smooth as silk. As a matter of fact, it's white people's skin that seemed on the rough side to me. Expecially in older age.

As for your rants that "bantus" share clothing, phenotype, yadda yadda yadda...you obviuosly don't know the difference between Akan clothing, Xhosa clothing, Tswana clothing, etc. You don't know much on this subject period.


Zulu (South Africa)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennymathieson/113945810/


Xhosa (South Africa)



Wolof (Senegal)



Igbo (Nigeria)
http://www.oraifite.com/images/igbo-wedding-pictures-4.jpg


Ashanti (Ghana)



Super Ignorance - Bettyboo
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ I'm confused. Are you guys talking about Bantus or Niger-Congo speakers in general?? Because when you all (especially Betty) refer to Bantus you also list peoples such as Yoruba, Igbo, Wolof, and Ashanti who are not even Bantu speakers! Let's get one thing clear: Bantu is a language group. Bantu speakers make up the majority of Central and Southern African peoples but NOT West Africans. The only Bantu speakers in West Africa that I'm aware of are Cameroonians where the Bantu languages supposedly originate.

It seems some of you are victims of ignorance and particularly white (south African) racism to use 'Bantu' as a kind of racial category. And Bettyboo, you definitely have issues. I find it hard to believe that you are even black to talk that way. Even Horn Africans who at least acknowledge their black African identity would not say even a fraction of the crazy stuff you spout about black people or black skin. If you are not Mathilda, then you are definitely a victim of her brainwashing or miseducation of others like her!
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Euros throw out garbage nonsense and because they call themselves "experts" and high smuckety smucks, their nonsense gets treated like gold.....

Again:

Man know thyself....

It is HILARIOUS to hear Africans fumbling with the hand grenades white folks give them as "nuggets of truth" about their own history. As if Africans don't know their OWN history....
 

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Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
 
Djehuti

Just arguing on Bettyboos kindergarten level. I think "they" (supposed white scholars) have startified the languages into Nilo-Sahran A (West, Central), Nilo-Sahran B (Central, South), and Chadic. The term "bantu" is heading towards being obsolete from people who never understood what they hell they were talking about to begin with.
 

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Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bettyboo:
YOU have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. African-Americans descendants derived mainly from Central and Southern African practically from Bantu groups. Bantu is NOT just a LANGUAGE; it is also ethnic groups that share the same/similar language, culture, food, music, art, dance, cultural dress/attire, and phenotype. African-Americans ancestors was not as diverse; they practically all looked the same. Most Bantu groups have thick, rough skin, broad nose, extra large thick lips, short nappy hair, and very dark, black skin. That is how African-Americans ancestors looked. Any African-Americans who have features that contradict that is certainly mix. African-Americans with long, flowing soft, curly, or straight hair is mix. African-Americans who have a straight, narrow, thin nose is mix. Our ancestors did NOT have those features.

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And I have asked you for a scholarly source for such a statement. The fact is that there IS NO scholarly basis for such a belief because no scholar claims that Africans in Central and Southern Africa are part of a single Bantu ethnic group with a common phenotype unique and distinct to them as Bantus.

Zulu is a Bantu language, and ZULUS were not a major part of the African slave trade. Zulu features are VARIED just like ALL AFRICANS.

Zulus:










There is NO BANTU feature and Bantu is a language family not a ethnic group or phenotype.

quote:

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Bantu is a large category of African languages. It also is used as a general label for over 400 ethnic groups in Sub-Saharan Africa, from Cameroon across Central Africa and Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. These peoples share a common language family sub-group, the Bantu languages, and broad ancestral culture, but Bantu languages as a whole are as diverse as Indo-European languages.

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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples

And any history of the Slave trade in America makes it clear that most American slaves came from West African peoples not central or Southern Africa. Again, I would love to see you provide some scholarly source for 1) Bantu features and 2) TransAtlantic slaves originating in Central and Southern Africa.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I'm confused. Are you guys talking about Bantus or Niger-Congo speakers in general?? Because when you all (especially Betty) refer to Bantus you also list peoples such as Yoruba, Igbo, Wolof, and Ashanti who are not even Bantu speakers! Let's get one thing clear: Bantu is a language group. Bantu speakers make up the majority of Central and Southern African peoples but NOT West Africans. The only Bantu speakers in West Africa that I'm aware of are Cameroonians where the Bantu languages supposedly originate.

It seems some of you are victims of ignorance and particularly white (south African) racism to use 'Bantu' as a kind of racial category. And Bettyboo, you definitely have issues. I find it hard to believe that you are even black to talk that way. Even Horn Africans who at least acknowledge their black African identity would not say even a fraction of the crazy stuff you spout about black people or black skin. If you are not Mathilda, then you are definitely a victim of her brainwashing or miseducation of others like her!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oknaw10:
(source: Theosophist for March 1881 p. 123).

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
A lot can happen in 128 years (not that anyone took nonsense seriously even then).

quote:

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Originally posted by Oknaw10:
(source: Theosophist for March 1881 p. 123).

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quote:

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Originally posted by nomorelies:

Djehuti

Just arguing on Bettyboos kindergarten level. I think "they" (supposed white scholars) have startified the languages into Nilo-Sahran A (West, Central), Nilo-Sahran B (Central, South), and Chadic. The term "bantu" is heading towards being obsolete from people who never understood what they hell they were talking about to begin with.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Narmer Menes:

Bantu was the name of a people, before Greenberg coined the term proto Bantu to delineate a language family, there was/is a people who attribute themselves as being descendants of the Bantu. Bantu is an African term, not a European one. Furthermore, there are Bantu speakers in West Africa and further south and Central of Africa. Yoruba is certainly not a bantu language, I have argued in a seperate thread about my belief of the descendancy of Yoruba speakers from the Nile Valley. The point being made was that African Americans are mix of a host different people's from Africa, not just the Bantu speaking tribes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oknaw10:

The AE clearly came from India, according to their own depictions of their homeland, Punt. This quote explains, the type of wood depicted only grows in India;

The Egyptians came, according to their own records, from a mysterious land...on the shore of the Indian Ocean, the sacred Punt; the original home of their gods...who followed thence after their people who had abandoned them to the valley of the Nile, led by Amon, Hor and Hathor. This region was the Egyptian 'Land of the Gods,' Pa-Nuter, in old Egyptian, or Holyland, and now proved beyond any doubt to have been quite a different place from the Holyland of Sinai. By the pictorial hieroglyphic inscription found on the walls of the temple of the Queen Haslitop at Der-el-babri, we see that this Punt can be no other than India. For many ages the Egyptians traded with their old homes, and the reference here made by them to the names of the Princes of Punt and its fauna and flora, especially the nonmenclature of various precious woods to be found but in India, leave us scarcely room for the smallest doubt that the old civilization of Egypt is the direct outcome of that the older India."

(source: Theosophist for March 1881 p. 123).

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LMAO I hope you realize that the eastern coast of Africa borders the Indian Ocean! You do know this basic geographical fact right?? You also realize that according to the Egyptians' records Punt can be reached either by land (travelling up the Nile) or by sailing down the Red Sea. Last time I checked, the Nile does not stretch to India and neither does the Red Sea border the Subcontinent. Also, the wood taken from Punt was a kind of ebony native to East Africa. The Egyptians also brought a kind of wheat called teff which is also African, and practically all of the flora and fuana shown were African including baboons, hippos, and giraffes. Are there such animals in India? Even the people depicted were Africans like the Egyptians themselves who wore East African attire. Even the names of the Puntite king and queen, 'Parahu' and 'Aty' were African and have Afrasian etymologies unless you can find such in Dravidian or something.

Seriously, you can read more about it here and here.
 

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Posted by Oknaw10 (Member # 16192) on :
 
I guess Punt was probably in the southern part of the Red Sea, somewhere around Eritrea.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Scholars aren't sure exactly in which modern day country Punt is located but the popular consensus is that it's somewhere around the region of Eritrea, Djibouti, and northern Ethiopia. I too believe it is likely Eritrea due to descriptions in the 'Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor' of a sacred island which corresponds to an Island off the coast of Eritrea.
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Djehuti wrote:
----------------------------
----------------------------


Anyone notice this boy can't backup anything he says.

He is making a mockery of this scholarly forum.

That is why no one takes his posts as nothing more than puppy "chow" defication.
 

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Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
 
Usual when we think of bi-racial its about white/black mix, not about Chinese/ Somali, Indian/Nigerian or whatever. There is something ugly in this, no? It all boils down to white supremacy not wanting to defile its ranks with colour.
 

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Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
 
Usual when we think of bi-racial its about white/black mix, not about Chinese/ Somali, Indian/Nigerian or whatever. There is something ugly in this, no? It all boils down to white supremacy not wanting to defile its ranks with colour.
 

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Posted by Oknaw10 (Member # 16192) on :
 
Perhaps, but then why wouldn't other races also have a sense of superiority? Are Caucasians the only people who have anything to feel superior about? Why are blacks not sitting around discussing how much better they are than the whites? Do they accept that they are inferior? Hey, if they accept the role whose fault is that? Why would they not simply laugh at the whites for feeling superior when they are usually in fact nerdy and geeky and very bad dancers? Why would blacks have a problem with whites claiming to be superior if they were in fact not? All I see are non-white races constantly complaining because the whites are flaunting their superiority, thus they must accept white superiority as fact. Do whites complain when non-whites claim to be superior to them? No, because they don't accept that it's true, therefore they simply regard the claims as ludicrous. What we have here is a worldwide agreement that whites are the superior race. Why is that?
 

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Posted by Alive (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Oknaw10:
Perhaps, but then why wouldn't other races also have a sense of superiority? Are Caucasians the only people who have anything to feel superior about? Why are blacks not sitting around discussing how much better they are than the whites? Do they accept that they are inferior? Hey, if they accept the role whose fault is that? Why would they not simply laugh at the whites for feeling superior when they are usually in fact nerdy and geeky and very bad dancers? Why would blacks have a problem with whites claiming to be superior if they were in fact not?

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quote:

---

Originally posted here:Nonscientists are already beginning to stitch together highly speculative conclusions about the historically charged subject of race and intelligence from the new biological data. Last month, a blogger in Manhattan described a recently published study that linked several snippets of DNA to high I.Q. An online genetic database used by medical researchers, he told readers, showed that two of the snippets were found more often in Europeans and Asians than in Africans.
No matter that the link between I.Q. and those particular bits of DNA was unconfirmed, or that other high I.Q. snippets are more common in Africans, or that hundreds or thousands of others may also affect intelligence, or that their combined influence might be dwarfed by environmental factors. Just the existence of such genetic differences between races, proclaimed the author of the Half Sigma blog, a 40-year-old software developer, means "the egalitarian theory," that all races are equal, "is proven false."

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I'm confused. Are you guys talking about Bantus or Niger-Congo speakers in general?? Because when you all (especially Betty) refer to Bantus you also list peoples such as Yoruba, Igbo, Wolof, and Ashanti who are not even Bantu speakers! Let's get one thing clear: Bantu is a language group. Bantu speakers make up the majority of Central and Southern African peoples but NOT West Africans. The only Bantu speakers in West Africa that I'm aware of are Cameroonians where the Bantu languages supposedly originate.

It seems some of you are victims of ignorance and particularly white (south African) racism to use 'Bantu' as a kind of racial category. And Bettyboo, you definitely have issues. I find it hard to believe that you are even black to talk that way. Even Horn Africans who at least acknowledge their black African identity would not say even a fraction of the crazy stuff you spout about black people or black skin. If you are not Mathilda, then you are definitely a victim of her brainwashing or miseducation of others like her!

---

Now you know that I never used West Africans as an example of a bantu group; everyone else did that. There is nothing that I said that was ignorant or wrong. A language or languages are spoken by PEOPLE these PEOPLE make up an ethnicity, nation, or tribe.
 

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Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Hey Bettyboo! Do you want some ointment for your penile blisters? : )
 

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Posted by Alive (Member # 10819) on :
 
Just because a language or nation is shared by pepole doesn't mean they aren't diverse.

Even in single families you can find wide ranges of appearances.

Anyway, Mandinka





Zulu:










 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ This coming from the IDIOT who is unable to refute any of the FACTS we present and so goes into ridiculous tirade and spamming the board with talks of 'Afrocentrism' and makes the silliest claims that narrow noses means "caucasian" or that the original dark paint for the skin color of Egyptians was "dirt"!! LOL
 

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