This is topic S.W.A.N.E.A. (SW Asia NE Africa) in forum Egyptology at EgyptSearch Forums.


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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
There's absolutely no reason in the world for
Afrikan people to continue to allow a valuable
piece of our property to be labeled as part of
a continent it is not geologically part of.

The Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, and Mesopotamia
are only geographically labelled SouthEastAsia due to
the primacy of Europeans in writing down their own
geographic viewpoint.

Geologically, the above named regions all sit on the
Arabian tectonic plate. This plate broke off of the
African tectonic plate. The Horn and East Africa east
of the Great Rift Valley are also breaking away from
the African tectonic plate.

Will that fact lead us far in the future to labelling
them a part of Asia too? This is no joke. Search
the ancient literature and you'll see the Nile was
once the determining point of division between Africa
and Asia, such that all west of the Nile was "Libya"
while all east of the Nile was Asia.

There's nothing natural or correct in labelling the
Arabian tectonic plate as southwest Asia when in
fact if anything it is far northeast Africa or the
northeast extention of Africa.

Hatred of Arabs and Jews is no more a reason to
give away this landmass than is its Greco-Roman
misnomering. Yet it is precisely anti-Semitic bias
that makes an excuse for otherwise thoughtful
Afrikans to disconnect the topic region from the
great continent of Africa.


Fig. 1. Africa and Arabia (etc.) viewed from space
and from the "Arabic" perspective where south is
the prime direction.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
The Arabian plate lands are a part of Africa. Only political geography can make it Asian.

When speaking of the Arabian plate lands all
the land south of Turkey and west of Iran is
included. This is all far northeast Africa.
The designation middle-east is a political
term only.

Think, how could Morocco be in the middle east when it's Maghrib al Aqsa (farthest west)? Why
isn't Greece in middle east? Politics not
geography is the determinant. Think again, no Asian Muslim countries east of Afghanistan are considered in the middle east.
 

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Posted by tk101 (Member # 12361) on :
 
Think, how could Morocco be in the middle east when it's Maghrib al Aqsa (farthest west)? Why
isn't Greece in middle east? Politics not
geography is the determinant. Think again, no Asian Muslim countries east of Afghanistan are considered in the middle east.

hmm i thought about that too, why do they include North african countries as the Middle east or south west asia?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
It's part of a control game so that the popular
mind only thinks of Africa, "real Africa," as
only that part of the continent free of Semitic
influx be it language, religion, or way of life.

It also removes "African taint" from those north
Mediterranean civilizations where south Meds,
i.e. North Africans, played prominent roles.

Think of Septemius Severus, Vergil, St. Augustine,
etc., not to mention the ancient "Libyans" of
pre-Greek interaction in Crete and the Peloponnese.
 

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Posted by tk101 (Member # 12361) on :
 
i know...they seem to want to think of africa and even asia as a homogenous place(s). i believe this ideology falls back on the idea of the true "negriod". I wonder when North africa will be attached to its "mother". I think they equate dark skin and broad nose with pure africans, which isn't true. Black africans can produce lightskined africans..due to natural(not form outside influences) recessive gene(s) form one or both parents being heterozygous. plus the fact that skin color is polygentic, this would increase the likelyhood of this happening..i'm sure not every african's genes are purely dominate...i hope this makes sense...and isn't something i just flew off on the tangent with...i have been on edge today....so i apologize
 

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Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
 

quote:

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he Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, and Mesopotamia
are only geographically labelled SouthEastAsia due to
the primacy of Europeans in writing down their own
geographic viewpoint.

Geologically, the above named regions all sit on the
Arabian tectonic plate. This plate broke off of the
African tectonic plate.

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quote:

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The Horn and East Africa east
of the Great Rift Valley are also breaking away from
the African tectonic plate.

Will that fact lead us far in the future to labelling
them a part of Asia too? This is no joke. Search
the ancient literature and you'll see the Nile was
once the determining point of division between Africa
and Asia, such that all west of the Nile was "Libya"
while all east of the Nile was Asia.

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quote:

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Originally posted by tk101:

Think, how could Morocco be in the middle east when it's Maghrib al Aqsa (farthest west)? Why
isn't Greece in middle east?..

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quote:

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..Politics not
geography is the determinant. Think again, no Asian Muslim countries east of Afghanistan are considered in the middle east.

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quote:

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hmm i thought about that too, why do they include North african countries as the Middle east or south west asia?

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i know...they seem to want to think of africa and even asia as a homogenous place(s). i believe this ideology falls back on the idea of the true "negriod". I wonder when North africa will be attached to its "mother". I think they equate dark skin and broad nose with pure africans, which isn't true. Black africans can produce lightskined africans..due to natural(not form outside influences) recessive gene(s) form one or both parents being heterozygous. plus the fact that skin color is polygentic, this would increase the likelyhood of this happening..i'm sure not every african's genes are purely dominate...i hope this makes sense...

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Originally posted by Supercar:

Who knows, given the richness of human ancestry in East sub-Saharan Africa, but Egypt and Sudan, I believe, will remain attached to the mainland continent, should the said break away occur.

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I thought this has happened already, especially in the case of Sudan? Many of the peoples in the north, especially among the elite don't consider themselves as 'black' but rather as "green" Arabs.
 

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Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
 
Listen Takruri,

I am not saying that North Africa isn't Africa: it surely is. I am probably more zealous for that than most other ZEALOTS on this board....lol. Yet, CULTURALLY speaking, I don't mind my mentor's term, which again is called, "SouthWest Asia and North Africa", i.e. S.W.A.N.A. This doesn't mean that North Africa isn't part of Africa, it just connects a certain part of the world together which we normally call the "Middle East", understand? Yet I understand the issue, and if the term tried to seperate Africa from Africa(get it, the word play....lol), then I would/will drop the term. But I don't think that is the issue, therefore I will stick with the term. Salaam
 

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Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Israel:

Yet, CULTURALLY speaking, I don't mind my mentor's term, which again is called, "SouthWest Asia and North Africa", i.e. S.W.A.N.A. This doesn't mean that North Africa isn't part of Africa, it just connects a certain part of the world together which we normally call the "Middle East", understand? Yet I understand the issue, and if the term tried to seperate Africa from Africa(get it, the word play....lol), then I would/will drop the term. But I don't think that is the issue, therefore I will stick with the term. Salaam

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..."Middle East" is a bankrupt Eurocentric geopolitical construct. If the term doesn't in effect attempt to partition the African continent, then pray tell what it does?

Geographically, it makes no sense; "Middle East" is "middle" and "east" of what at the same time?

"Culturally speaking", what connects the "Middle East", and hence, the need to "culturally" connect "S.W.A.N.A" while separating the North African countries therein from mainland Africa; perhaps it has to do with Islam and Arabic language?

These are the "issues" that come up with the term.
 

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Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
 
NORTH Africa, North East Africa, w/e. Is all part of Africa. NOT THE MIDDLE EAST... even if it consists of a migration of non african population at current day does not take it out of Africa. The region is part of the african continent since the breaking of the tectonic plates. SO CALLED MIDDLE EAST is a term to seperate N africa from Africa.
 

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Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
 
I as well think it's nonsense to consider landmasses that have broken away from Africa to be "sterilized" of African roots when in addition European populations come to chacterize the citizenry of those lands. When we go back far enough, not even that far, those lands were dwelled in by people who were and looked African. It's not news to say Steppe populations aka whites and today's Semites entered African lands and took on that culture, language, religion, and often even the tribal names. So, we, as you point out, have the anomaly, that lands that were once African are now no longer considered so. Politically the present "former" African lands and tomorrow's future once-African lands may be called other than an African rose but intellectually, I agree they should always remain our African rose. Thanks for bringing the point up.


Paul Marc Washington
 

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Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
 
From a technical standpoint northeast Africa is obviously part of Africa but realistically it (especially Egypt) is a part of southwest Asia.
 

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Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 

quote:

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From a technical standpoint northeast Africa is obviously part of Africa but realistically it (especially Egypt) is a part of southwest Asia.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marc Washington:
I as well think it's nonsense to consider landmasses that have broken away from Africa to be "sterilized" of African roots ...

... those lands were dwelled in by people who were and looked African. It's not news to say Steppe populations, aka whites and today's Semites, entered African lands and took on that culture, language, religion, and often even the tribal names. So, we, as you point out, have the anomaly, that lands that were once African are now no longer considered so.

Politically the present "former" African lands, and tomorrow's future once-African lands, may be called other than an African rose but intellectually, I agree they should always remain our African rose.

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quote:

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Horemheb:

...east- asia....those areas east of Europe and Med.

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quote:

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Horemheb:
Near- the part of the east that is closest to Europe and med.

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quote:

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Horemheb:
Now, more basic information- Africa is not in the near east, but Egypt is, always has been and always will be.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:

well, I agree with you that the term 'middle east' is a little misleading and thus 'near east' is probably a better term in terms of accuracy.

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Arrow:
i think I agreed that Egypt was part of Africa from a geography point of view.

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Arrow:

Geopolictially

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Arrow:

and culturaly it is part of the arab near east.

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Folks, don't take the bait. He's just looking for attention.

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Sure is!
 

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Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
 
here are some facts. Lets not let the FACTS stand in our way.


Egypt » General Information
Location
Middle East
Time
GMT + 2 (GMT + 3 from last Friday in April to last Thursday in September).
Area
1,002,000 sq km (386,874 sq miles).
Population
74.9 million (UN, 2005).
Population Density
74.8 per sq km.
Capital
Cairo (El Qahira). Population: 16.7 million (2005 estimate).
Geography
Egypt is bordered to the north by the Mediterranean, to the south by Sudan, to the west by Libya, and to the east by the Red Sea and Israel. The River Nile divides the country unevenly in two, while the Suez Canal provides a third division with the Sinai Peninsula. Beyond the highly cultivated Nile Valley and Delta, a lush green tadpole of land that holds more than 90 per cent of the population, the landscape is mainly flat desert, devoid of vegetation apart from the few oases that have persisted in the once fertile depressions of the Western Desert. Narrow strips are inhabited on the Mediterranean coast and on the African Red Sea coast. The coast south of Suez has fine beaches and the coral reefs just offshore attract many divers. The High Dam at Aswan now controls the annual floods that once put much of the Nile Valley under water; it also provides electricity.
Government
Republic. Head of State: President Muhammad Hosni Mubarak since 1981. Head of Government: Ahmed Nazif since 2004. Recent history: Hosni Mubarak is Egypt's longest-serving ruler since Muhammad Ali in the early 19th century and one of the longest-serving leaders in the Arab world. President Mubarak was re-elected on 7 September 2005 for his fifth successive term. On 25 May 2005, a constitutional amendment was passed to allow for free and direct Presidential elections to be contested by multiple candidates following pressure form the US and domestic political groups. In previous elections, Egyptians voted yes or no for a single candidate appointed by Parliament. The only opposition organisation which has broad public support, the Muslim Brotherhood, is outlawed and could not field a candidate. Mr Mubarak succeeded Anwar Sadat, who was assassinated in 1981. He is a great survivor, having escaped no fewer than six assassination attempts. The President appoints the Prime Minister. Ahmed Nazif has occupied this post since July 2004. Elections to the 454-member Majlis al-Sha’abare (People's Assembly ) are held every five years. The first stage of a three-stage election took place on 9 November 2005.
Language
Arabic is the official language. English and French are widely spoken.
Religion
According to the 1986 census, over 94 per cent of the population follows Islam; the majority of the rest is Christian. All types of Christianity are represented, especially the Coptic Christian Church. There is also a small Jewish minority.
Electricity
Most areas 220 volts AC, 50Hz. Certain rural parts still use 110 to 380 volts AC.
SOCIAL CONVENTIONS
Islam is the dominant influence and many traditional customs and beliefs are tied up with religion. The people are generally courteous and hospitable and expect similar respect from visitors. Shaking hands will suffice as a greeting. Because Egypt is a Muslim country, dress should be conservative and women should not wear revealing clothes, particularly when in religious buildings and in towns (although the Western style of dress is accepted in modern nightclubs, restaurants, hotels and bars in Cairo, Alexandria and other tourist destinations). Official or social functions and smart restaurants usually require more formal wear. Smoking is very common. Photography: Tourists will have to pay a fee to take photographs inside pyramids, tombs and museums.
 

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Posted by Calypso (Member # 8587) on :
 
From the CIA World Factbook. Egypt:

Northern Africa, bordering the Mediterranean Sea, between Libya and the Gaza Strip, and the Red Sea north of Sudan, and includes the Asian Sinai Peninsula
Map references:
Africa.

Occupying the northeast corner of the African continent, Egypt is bisected by the highly fertile Nile valley, where most economic activity takes place.

source:https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/eg.html

The CIA Hore, The most sacred organization in your world view. They say Egypt is in Africa.

You must obey or you'll be called heretic!!!
 

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Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
 
Arrow aka incogneto Horemheb said:

quote:

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Super car, The arab/Muslim countries in the middle east all have their own culture but are also part of a larger culture. They speak the same language, they have the same religion etc. Egypt is much much closer to those near east nations than it is to sub Saharan Africa. If I did a man on the street 99% of the respondents would say Egypt was an arab/muslim mideast nation and they would be correct

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quote:

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Actually, Egypt is not really a Arab nor a ''Middle Eastern'' country. Egypt only became geopolitically alinged with so-called Arab countries around 1952 under the banner of Pan-Arabism

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quote:

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Originally posted by ARROW99:

They speak the same language, they have the same religion etc.

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quote:

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Arrow:

Egypt is much much closer to those near east nations than it is to sub Saharan Africa.

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quote:

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Arrow:

If I did a man on the street

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quote:

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Arrow:

of the respondents would say Egypt was an arab/muslim mideast nation and they would be correct.

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...how many of these "hypothetical" respondents of your imagination, will be able to answer the questions about "middle east" or "near east", that you were not able to? However, if I surveyed geneticists, 100% of them would likely acknowledge tropical African ancestry in Southern Europeans, particularly the Greeks, and guess what: they would be correct.
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

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Arrow:

If I did a man on the street

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quote:

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SuperCar: I did not know that you were gay.

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Explains so much.
 

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Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
 
^Indeed; one can make a better arguement that Ancient Greek culture was "near Eastern" than any on the African continent, given that it borrowed heavily from "SW Asia" and Africa, than can be said of the Nile Valley borrowing from "SW Asia". Culture flowed both directly and indirectly from the Nile Valley to southern Europe via Greece and "SW Asia". Another notable flow of culture [again both African and "SW Asian" derived] from the African continent, was in the "Middle Ages" via the Iberian peninsula, sparking the so-called Eurocentric notion of "renaissance".
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
Quite so, Europe inherits agriculture, cattle domestication, literacy and mathamatics from SouthWest Asia and Africa, whereas Africans invented all of the above.


The reason for the existence of reified [artificial] constructs like 'near east' is to allow Europe to lay essentially phony claim to non European culture and innovation.

Europe in ancient history is the emperor with no clothes.

To realise this we must strip it of all it's puffery meant to distract from the empty reality - Near East, Middle East, Mediterranean, Caucasoids.....all exist to puff up Europe.

Restrict Europe to....Europe, and you have and honest picture of simple hunter gatherer cultures, that accomplished precious little of note until they were civilised by Africans and SouthWest Asians who invaded the European "zone of mixture" aka - Greece and Rome.

It was these mixed Europeans who later civilised the North Europeans, so long isolated from African and Asian centers of civilisation.
 

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Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:

To realise this we must strip it of all it's puffery meant to distract from the empty reality - Near East, Middle East, Mediterranean, Caucasoids.....all exist to puff up Europe.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Supercar:
^Indeed; one can make a better arguement that Ancient Greek culture was "near Eastern" than any on the African continent, given that it borrowed heavily from "SW Asia" and Africa, than can be said of the Nile Valley borrowing from "SW Asia". Culture flowed both directly and indirectly from the Nile Valley to southern Europe via Greece and "SW Asia". Another notable flow of culture [again both African and "SW Asian" derived] from the African continent, was in the "Middle Ages" via the Iberian peninsula, sparking the so-called Eurocentric notion of "renaissance".

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quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Quite so, Europe inherits
* agriculture,
* cattle domestication,
* literacy
* and mathamatics
from SouthWest Asia and Africa, whereas Africans invented all of the above.


The reason for the existence of reified [artificial] constructs like 'near east' is to allow Europe to lay essentially phony claim to non European culture and innovation.

Europe in ancient history is the emperor with no clothes.

To realise this we must strip it of all it's puffery meant to distract from the empty reality - Near East, Middle East, Mediterranean, Caucasoids.....all exist to puff up Europe.

Restrict Europe to....Europe, and you have and honest picture of simple hunter gatherer cultures, that accomplished precious little of note until they were civilised by Africans and SouthWest Asians who invaded the European "zone of mixture" aka - Greece and Rome.

It was these mixed Europeans who later civilised the North Europeans, so long isolated from African and Asian centers of civilisation.

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quote:

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English translation:
... many ... things ... started in northeast African() ... developed by Egyptian
... Africans.

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quote:

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Original Simonsezics quote:
many of the things he mentions started in northeast Africans but were developed by Egyptians, not Africans.

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And the Genius proceeded to enumerate and point out the objects to me: Those piles of ruins, said he, which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia.(5) Behold the wrecks of her metropolis, of Thebes with her hundred palaces, the parent of cities, and monument of the caprice of destiny. There a people, now forgotten, discovered, while others were yet barbarians, the elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men now rejected from society for their sable skin and frizzled hair, founded on the study of the laws of nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe.


Footnote 5.
In the new Encyclopedia 3rd vol. Antiquities, is published a memoir, respecting the chronology of the twelve ages anterior to the passing of Xerxes into Greece, in which I conceive myself to have proved that Upper Egypt formerly composed a distinct kingdom, known to the Hebrews by the name of Kous, and to which the appellation of Ethiopia was specially given. This kingdom preserved its independence to the time of Psammeticus; at which period, being united to the Lower Egypt, it lost its name of Ethiopia, which thenceforth was bestowed upon the nations of Nubia, and upon the different tribes of blacks, including Thebes, their metropolis.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
The Greco-Romans considered anyone who was not Greek or Romans to be barbarians.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
The Greco-Romans considered anyone who was not Greek or Romans to be barbarians. Doubtless they did not fully realize that the barbarians to the north were in reality their ancestors.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:


They would have been unaware of MOST of the development of civilization up to there time.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
Doesn't matter rasol. Why do the northern europeans even come into the conversation?

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
They had everything to do with them to the extent that they were their ancestors.

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
The ancestors of the greeks are Europeans , not africans. The geneticists do not say the Greeks have afraican ancestry.

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that modern Greeks have african ancestry.

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One of the question I asked you was to show data proving that ancient Greeks were decendants of african

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
that modern Greeks have african ancestry. One of the question I asked you was to show data proving that ancient Greeks were decendants of african.

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Because you have never answered it.

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Lets agree that there were people with the genes you mentioned in the area during neolithic times.

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Brace and the others

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
"Answer: During the Neolithic."

Prove it.

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Translation of SimonSezese into English:
Can you show me the previous discussion on E3b
and its significance for partial African male
ancestry in Greeks and other north Meds/Balkans.

Whaaaat??????????? A G A I N ? ? ?

02 February 2005; This topic is 9 pages long:
Negroid affinities in ancient Greece???


19 February 2005; This topic is 3 pages long:
Genetics & Anthropology in Sicily


31 August 2005; This topic is 2 pages long:
E-mail reply from C. Loring Brace


24 December, 2005
The Brace Study Is Out!!!!


24 March, 2006;
African echoes in Minoan art


27 April, 2006; This topic comprises 7 pages:
Whitewashing Ancient Greece
 

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Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
 
Even the Greeks never heard of these mythical Africans you guys invent.

History of Ancient Greece

Thucydides: On The Early History of the Hellenes (written c. 395 BCE)


The country which is now called Hellas was not regularly settled in ancient times. The people were migratory, and readily left their homes whenever they were overpowered by numbers. There was no commerce, and they could not safely hold intercourse with one another either by land or sea. The several tribes cultivated their own soil just enough to obtain a maintenance from it. But they had no accumulation of wealth, and did not plant the ground; for, being without walls, they were never sure that an invaded might not come and despoil them. Living in this manner and knowing that they could anywhere obtain a bare subsistence, they were always ready to migrate; so that they had neither great cities nor any considerable resources. The richest districts were most constantly changing their inhabitants; for example, the countries which are now called Thessaly and Boeotia, the greater part of the Peloponnesus with the exception of Arcadia, and all the best parts of Hellas. For the productiveness of the land increased the power of individuals; this in turn was a source of quarrels by which communities were ruined, while at the same time they were more exposed to attacks from without. Certainly Attica, of which the soil was poor and thin, enjoyed a long freedom from civil strife, and therefore retained its original inhabitants [the Pelasgians].

The feebleness of antiquity is further proved to me by the circumstance that there appears to have been no common action in Hellas before the Trojan War. And I am inclined to think that the very name was not as yet given to the whole country, and in fact did not exist at all before the time of Hellen, the son of Deucalion; the different tribes, of which the Pelasgian was the most widely spread, gave their own names to different districts. But when Hellen and his sons became powerful in Phthiotis, their aid was invoked by other cities, and those who associated with them gradually began to be called Hellenes, though a long time elapsed before the name was prevalent over the whole country. Of this, Homer affords the best evidence; for he, although he lived long after the Trojan War, nowhere uses this name collectively, but confines it to the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes; when speaking of the entire host, he calls them Danäans, or Argives, or Achaeans.
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
^ Oscar Wilde is a poet, not a geneticist. As for the rest, it consists of uncredited comment unaccompanied by data, and so, utterly worthless.

Now, here is what a geneticist says:

Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers.

The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.).

Question: When did Africans migrate to Greece?
Answer: During the Neolithic.

Oscar Wilde's poems can't help you.
 

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Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
 
here is a little more. Neolithic Greeks came in from the north, not from Africa.


Pelasgians
by Daphne Elliott
Before recorded Time, (c. 900 BCE) but during an active migration era of prehistoric Greece (c. 10,000 BCE), a people came into the Pelaponnesus, presumably from the north, and settled around the eastern Mediterranian coast and its islands, Sicily, Lamapadusa etc. They were called "Pelasgians," which has several specific meanings, depending on which tranlation one might be reading.
The word pelasgian means from the sea. It also means hairy. And to top it all, it means springing from the earth... sticks embedded in the earth that spring up in human form to populate their surroundings. From this we can conjure up a race of people that came from the sea, wore beards, and were "indigenous." Hence, they were the aborigines who settled the Pelaponnesus, coming before the Dorians. One might say they were the aboriginal ancestors of what we now call "Hellenes" -- today's Greeks as they have come down through the ages.

The Pelasgians were successful in establishing themselves and their culture in the land and sea. Apparently they espoused the existing cult worship of Hera, as there is still to be seen the ruins of a Temple dedicated to Hera which they built. They are credited also with being admirable house builders, taking a different approach from the old, cramped design. Instead of a hut, they used large stones for the base making a drier, more lasting habitat, which was quickly adopted by their neighbors.

They remain important in the grand sweep of Greek pre-history. Some ancient myths are even said to have begun with them. The myth of Helios' harnessing the sun to his chariot is said to date back to the Pelasgians.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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Posted by Southern Woman (Member # 11025) on :
 
Wow...amazing watching this unfold before my very eyes....quite comical actually. Denial is an amazing drug apparently.

The reincarnated one has had his head handed to him on a platter and yet refuses to accept his utter defeat. Thats textbook insanity. Asking the same EXACT question over and over again expecting a different answer even tho its been give ad nauseum.
 

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Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
 
he says "may have " rasol. Every Greek history books says othrwise, I can post this stuff all day.
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

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Pelasgians
by Daphne Elliott
Before recorded Time, (c. 900 BCE) but during an active migration era of prehistoric Greece (c. 10,000 BCE), a people came into the Pelaponnesus, presumably from the north, and settled around the eastern Mediterranian coast and its islands, Sicily, Lamapadusa etc. They were called "Pelasgians," which has several specific meanings, depending on which tranlation one might be reading.
The word pelasgian means from the sea. It also means hairy. And to top it all, it means springing from the earth

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
he says "may have " rasol.

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Arrow99: Every Greek history book says otherwise

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Incorrect, *no* general history book says 'otherwise', as such texts cannot comment on genetics.

Nothing you have cited has any relevance to either the question or the answer provided by geneticists.

It sure is funny watching you squirm though.
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
"During the neolithic" is so broad I could sail an aircraft carrier through it.

---

Ok?

Sail whatever you like thru it, because you sure can't dispute it.

Africans sailed *themselves* thru it, and RIGHT INTO Greece where they literally 'fathered' the Neolithic in Europe. To this day Greeks, UNLIKE Northern Europeans, quite literally carry the lineage of their NEOLITHIC AFRICAN DADDY.

Shed all the tears of anguish you like. It won't change a thing.

Thank you for playing, Professor.
 

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Posted by Nay-Sayer (Member # 10566) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
But hey, why not just flip a script and turn everything upside down and put yourself on top?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Southern Woman:
Wow...amazing watching this unfold before my very eyes....quite comical actually. Denial is an amazing drug apparently.

---

Quite right Southern Woman.

Especially when nearly a dozen discussants have made it clear to the poor man that he is making a fool of himself via desparate denial.

He can't deal with the answer.

He can't refute the answer either.

So he pleads the question, over and over.

I don't mind.

It just gives us and excuse to 'rub it in'.

quote:

---

Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers.

The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.).

Question: When did Africans migrate
Answer: The Neolithic.

---

quote:

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"Every history book condems their position."

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quote:

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he says "may have " rasol. Every Greek history books says othrwise, I can post this stuff all day.

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quote:

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a people came into the Pelaponnesus, presumably from the north

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quote:

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It just gives us and excuse to 'rub it in'.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:
"Answer: During the Neolithic."

Prove it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:
Even the Greeks never heard of these mythical Africans you guys invent.

History of Ancient Greece

Thucydides: On The Early History of the Hellenes (written c. 395 BCE)


... the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes; when speaking of the entire host, he calls them Danäans, or Argives, or Achaeans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:

This is all poppycock. I'm not trying to save anything.

---

quote:

---

Arrow:

There is nothing to save.

---

quote:

---

Arrow:

Ancient greek culture was developed in Greece as a result of the invasion by Europeans from the north.

---

quote:

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Arrow:

Greek scholars all say that it was almost all home grown with minimal input from other sources although nobody lives in a vacum and obviously there were some.

---

quote:

---

Actually Doug, Europe is the center of human progress. Everything of any importance in the second and third world was either brought by the British Empire or American business.

---

See post above.

quote:

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Arrow:

When you noted that European knowledge disappeared and then came back to Europe you were exactly correct.

---

"Knowledge" that they were not able use prior to it coming back, and presumably 'uncivilized' enough to have 'lost it'. Don't you ever quit your daytime job to become a 'defense' lawyer.

quote:

---

Arrow:

From an emotional standpoint you may not like that position, just as emotionally you do not like the fact that Egypt is a near eastern nation but thats the way it is.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:

Nothing important to the modern world came out of africa except cheap labor and natural resources.

---

quote:

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Arrow:

Thats not a diss , its just a fact.

---

quote:

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Ancient greek culture was developed in Greece as a result of the invasion by Europeans from the north

---

I don't bother refuting the above because I rather enjoy the implications - Native Southern Europeans played no role in their own civilisations. Rather they were civilised by the barbarian invaders from the north.

This is the basis for much "interracial" warfare between the white Nordes and non white Medits.

I say, pass the popcorn and let the fighting commence.
 

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Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

---

Even the Greeks never heard of these mythical Africans you guys invent.

---

Which is insignificant despite already being incorrect. Anyone ever hear of Dadalos [da-da los]?
 

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Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
 
lol supercar;

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
Ancient greek culture was developed in Greece as a result of the invasion by Europeans from the north

---

I don't bother refuting the above because I rather enjoy the implications - Native Southern Europeans played no role in their own civilisations. Rather they were civilised by the barbarian invaders from the north.

This is the basis for much "interracial" warfare between the white Nordes and non white Medits.

I say, pass the popcorn and let the fighting commence.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:

Nothing important to the modern world came out of africa except cheap labor and natural resources.

---

Oh, are you making a(nother) claim? BACK IT UP. Talk about broad statements.

quote:

---

SuperCar posted:
Indeed, that you can write, read and communicate with alphabets, as you are doing at this very moment, is something not considered important in tooth-fairy land.

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Arrow:

Thats not a diss , its just a fact.

---

Arrow, you are stupid. Don't take this as a diss, it's just a fact!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

quote:

---

Ancient greek culture was developed in Greece as a result of the invasion by Europeans from the north

---

I don't bother refuting the above because I rather enjoy the implications - Native Southern Europeans played no role in their own civilisations. Rather they were civilised by the barbarian invaders from the north.

This is the basis for much "interracial" warfare between the white Nordes and non white Medits.

I say, pass the popcorn and let the fighting commence.

---

, talk about psuedo-scolarship, but anyways I doubt Hore can prove:

quote:

---

Ancient greek culture was developed in Greece as a result of the invasion by Europeans from the north

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
I am more than willing to look at your views with an open mind but I want some specific data if I'm going to do that.

---

Bull-sh|t professor,

you, a bigot, and open-mindedness, definitely, do not mix:

You want to listen to real open minded un-biased people even less than this perfect example cat:

^^wants to hear nails screeechind across a chalkboard or a piece metal!

Which is why you continue to scream: 'I can't hear you, you have presented no edivence' to yourself and others on this board.


Unfortunately, (for hore) such rantings don't make things true.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^LOL A par exemplar of the professor!

quote:

---

When Ausar (an Egyptian) posted the below it should have been the end all there:

Actually, Egypt is not really a Arab nor a ''Middle Eastern'' country. Egypt only became geopolitically alinged with so-called Arab countries around 1952 under the banner of Pan-Arabism.

One thing you seem to confuse,like most Westeners, is religion with ethnicity connecting Arabs with Islam. You actually have Islamic nations in many sub-Saharan countries and even nations like Indonesia which have no Arabic speaking populations. You also forget Egypt is about %10 or more Christian.


Regardless of the language and religion praticed, the rural Egyptians culturally have more in common with sub-Saharans than Saudi Arabians. I could point out the similarities but I really don't have much time to waste on this board.


Using the perceptions of both Westeners is nothing more than appeal to popularity. Because 99% of people believe something does not make it a fact.


The term "near-eastern'' is another made up geo-political term that refers to former provinces of the Ottoman empire. Many people in Near-eastern studies also include Sudan in this geographical location. Would you agree that Sudan is also Near eastern or is this just Egypt?

---

But his desperate self just couldn't take it and had to humilate himself some more..

He claims that the roots of ancient Greek culture was European even though as Supercar says, the roots of Greek culture is what should really be described as "Middle Eastern" and not Egypt.

Greek Neolithic culture which includes animal husbandry as well as agriculture is not only aligned moreso with that of the Near East but solely with the Near East as these things were not developed independently in Europe!

In many religous beliefs and customs the ancient Greeks were Middle Eastern such as the ancient belief in fertility goddesses who were represented serpents, birds, and fish, just like those in early Middle Eastern myths; Male gods associated with bulls; sacrificial rituals involving goats and bulls; Libations with water and ritual purity; Honor invested in women's virginity and piety; family and blood vendettas; Xenia-- the laws of hospitality to strangers who enter your home, etc. -- All are customs found and associated with the Near-East and not Europe.

Some of the above customs above such as agriculture and animal domestication, libations, and ritual sacrifice by fire are also found in Africa which is not surprising as we have also told you ad-naseum about African roots in Greece also.

Hore then says that many elements of civilization were started in Northeast Africa but "by Egyptians and not Africans". As if Egyptians were not Africans.

Then the guy ask for us to "prove" that Greeks have African ancestry from the Neolithic, something which we've done a million times before! Takruri answers him by siting all the sources.

Now he talks about Pelasgians when it known that Pelasgians were pre-Indo-European people likely from Asia Minor.

LOL Poor old Hore, just won't get it!

quote:

---

Arrow says:

If I did a man on the street

---

quote:

---

[quote]SuperCar responds:
[qb]
I did not know that you were gay.

---

ROTFLMAOH @ that sh*t!
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
ups...
 

---

Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:
Southern Woman, Show me one place where the answer has been given. I asked these guys to show me the reasearch where african genes merged with Greek...IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE. It REQUIRES A SPECIFIC piece of archeology to do that. So no, they have not done. Every history book condems their position. Its simply pseudo- scholarship at its very worst.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ARROW99:

Nothing important to the modern world came out of africa except cheap labor and natural resources.

---

^Of course the above racist and ridiculous Hegelian notion is the very heart and source Hore's incessant denial.

Eurocentric doctrine #6 (you would think it would be #1) IF IT WAS GREAT, IT MUST HAVE BEEN WHITE: If advanced science, art, or architecture is found in Africa or South America, then Phoenecians, Greeks, Celts, Vikings (or, in the extreme case, space aliens) must be invoked to explain their presence. (Here, whiteness often functions as a relative concept, as "lighter than.") This bias gives rise to a pronounced tendency to date American or African cultures later than warranted, and as a result dating is constantly having to be revised further back into the past as evidence of greater antiquity piles up.

Forget the fact that the Semitic languages and culture of the Middle East which sparked great spiritual and religious revolutions of the world came from Africa. (which spread to even Europe [Greece].)

Forget the technological Stone Age (Neolithic) advancements that sparked the rise of civilization came from Africa.

Forget one of the earliest and popular civilizations in the world-- Egypt is African.

Forget that long before Africans were enslaved by Europeans they freely traded their resources with Europe and with Asia and were wealthier than Europe (Before Columbus, 80% of Europe's gold came from Africa) and were part of the global economic network with Arabia, India, and China before Europe became involved.

Let's just pretend that the Egyptians were actually wandering cacasoids made their way into the middle of the Sahara, only to wander again into the Nile and start civilization. (nevermind all the Saharan cave paintings of black peoples)

And that Indo-Europeans started civilization and not the indigenous farming peoples before them.

Yes this is the state of Eurocentrism a poor confused pitiful ofe whose glorious fantasy world of white-European-"kacazoid" supremacy is shattered and is desperately trying to pick up the pieces.

Well good luck with that.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
ups
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Bumped up for review. Please start on page 1.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


The Middle East is considered part of Eurasia rather than Africa because it shares a much greater portions of it's borders with Eurasia, simple as that
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
Concerning Ancient Egyptian at their formative stage. It seems even lower egyptians before the first dynasty (before the upper egyptians Naqada expansion from the south to unify and create the AE state) cluster more with Africans than with West Asians:

quote:

---

Moving to the opposite geographical extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.73 The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans. - Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Moving to the opposite geographical extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.73 The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans. - Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)

---

From (Kemp, 2005, p.54) Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
You already know the references, since I gave them up to you in the other thread. Stop acting stupid.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

The Middle East is considered a part of Asia
because the ancient Greek white man said so
and the modern white men politically control
map making.

Geologically the Arabian plate is a breakoff
from Africa that bumped up into Asia creating
the the Rock, i.e., the massive mountain
border of Turkey Taurus Ararat and Zagros
the obvious cut off point of Asia re Africa.

---

Geologists use the term continent in a different manner from geographers and anthroplogists where a continent is defined by continental crust:
Plate tectonics offers yet another way of defining continents.

Plate tectonics is a scientific theory that describes the large-scale motion of Earth's lithosphere. The model builds on the concept of continental drift which was developed during the first few decades of the 20th century. The geoscientific community accepted the theory after the concepts of seafloor spreading were developed in the late 1950s and early 1960s.



http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/slabs.html

[

________________________________________________


continent (n.)
"large land mass," 1550s, from continent land (mid-15c.), translating Latin terra continens "continuous land," from continens, present participle of continere

A continent is one of several very large landmasses on Earth. They are generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria, with up to seven regions commonly regarded as continents. From the Greek whitey viewpoint, the Aegean Sea was the center of the world; Asia lay to the east, Europe to the north and west, and Africa to the south.
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

• 
  A map of East Africa showing some of the historically active volcanoes (red triangles) and the Afar Triangle (shaded, center)—a triple junction where three plates are pulling away from one another: the Arabian Plate, and the two parts of the African Plate (the Nubian and the Somali) splitting along the East African Rift Zone (USGS).

• The Arabian Plate is one of three tectonic plates (the African, Arabian and Indian crustal plates) which have been moving northward over millions of years and colliding with the Eurasian Plate. This is resulting in a mingling of plate pieces and mountain ranges extending in the west from the Pyrenees, crossing southern Europe and to Iran forming the Alborz and Zagros Mountains, to the Himalayas and ranges of southeast Asia. [1]

See? Even Wiki's got this
just the way I tried to
explain to you.


Now for an excellent map showing, as I said,
Beduina (Sinai), Palestine, Lebanon, and
Syria are on the African tectonic plate
while the rest of the Arabian Peninsula
is on the Arabian tectonic plate
with thrust fault and plate movement
arrows proving the Ar Pl is a sub-plate
of the Afr Pl that bumped into EurAsia
to form "the Rock."



This belongs to Africa

quote:

---

... all land west of the extension
of the Rift composed of Gulf of Aqaba, the Arabah,
Dead Sea, Jordan River, and Kinnereth is on the
African plate and not the Arabian plate which is
itself a break-away of the African tectonic plate.
Only faulty geo-politics before earth science was
known makes the Arabian plate and peninsula "Asian."

African plate areas in yellow include part of Cyprus, coastal Levant, and all of Sinai.
This is the actual physiology of earth's geography as distinct from political boundaries.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004753

---

.


Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on December 19, 2010 06:15 PM:

Let me add that from a geological perspective, Africa truly is a distinct continent. It has its own tectonic plate for crying out loud:

 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:




This belongs to Africa

---

That's an irrational statement, entirely meaingless
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Again,

THIS BELONGS TO AFRICA


read it and weep

over and over again
 

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Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Have fun,









One young divergent plate boundary that you'll recognize is actively forming the Red Sea. Although the Arabian penninsula and Africa were once linked to form a single continent, they are now being ripped apart. The white arrows show the directions the two plates are moving. You can see that a new ocean, the Red Sea is being formed as they separate.



http://www.nature.nps.gov/geology/usgsnps/pltec/diverge.html
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
deleted
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:




This belongs to Africa

---