Just another excuse to make a historical movie based around white people. You know, I'm not trying to sound bitter or racist...but it's the truth! Why must Hollywood continue to romanticize the same damn stories over and over?!? Ancient Egypt was around for over 3,000 years...you can't get creative and think up something else? You can do a movie about Kamose and Ahmose expelling the Hyksos. There's that Nefertiti movie that there has been no update of. The list goes on...but no, they have to do a story everybody already knows and has been told to death.
Posted by Evergreen (Member # 12192) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: Just another excuse to make a historical a based around white people.
Evergreen Writes:
It is our responsibility to tell our story. I have an undergraduate degree in screen writing and I focus on writing historical pieces. One of my life goals is to get one of these scripts produced.
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
King, For a person who doesn't want to sound racist you sound very racist. It may be that the film makers know the public is interested in Cleopatra and they can sell a film about her. They could care less about history or what you or I might think about it. In fact, they are not historians, they are film makers. It is not the job of others to promote our particular world view, be it yours, mine, or anyone else.
Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
^ It's Hollywood films that are racist and that pander to the racist vanities of white people.
King is correct.
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Black American are the most racist people in the world. They grow up obsessed with the topic and talk about it all of the time. They see racism under every rock and use it as an excuse for their own failures. the ones that do very well in American society are the ones who 'get it' and understand that the average person could care less what color they are.
Posted by Evergreen (Member # 12192) on :
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ It's Hollywood films that are racist and that pander to the racist vanities of white people.
King is correct.
Evergreen Writes:
I agree, but this is a subjective matter. Please elaborate.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: King, For a person who doesn't want to sound racist you sound very racist. It may be that the film makers know the public is interested in Cleopatra and they can sell a film about her. They could care less about history or what you or I might think about it. In fact, they are not historians, they are film makers. It is not the job of others to promote our particular world view, be it yours, mine, or anyone else.
I'm not being racist. Listen, everybody knows Hollywood puts more of an emphasis on European-centered history than anybody elses. It could be because the vast majority of the people making these films are white themselves...maybe some black filmmakers need to stop making movies about hustlers and pimps and need to make something about medieval or ancient Black history. But this exposes another problem that maybe those said Black filmmakers may not even be aware of it themselves!! But there are a few influential Black filmmakers like Spike Lee, etc that SHOULD know.
I was watching an interview with Dave Chappelle where they were asking him about some show and he said he wanted to have a black girl play one particular role and he said the studio denied saying they wanted someone more "universally appealing." Now, Hollywood has changed a lot over the years now doubt. I'm not saying it's racist anymore, but at the end of the day it's still run like a business. And sometimes (most of the time), they sacrifice creativity for market appeal and demographic appeal. I find Mel Gibson's new movie Apocalypto to be very refreshing seeing as how it's not euro-centered (which again, I'm not saying is bad...but I'd like to see something different every once in a while).
Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
Someone said Dave Chappelle?
This is my favourite clip. CHAPPELE SHOW-BLACK KKK http://tinyurl.com/y4er6c Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
maybe more black people should buy tickets and it might change. Most people are VERY WEARY of racial complaints.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: I'm not being racist. Listen, everybody knows Hollywood puts more of an emphasis on European-centered history than anybody elses. It could be because the vast majority of the people making these films are white themselves...maybe some black filmmakers need to stop making movies about hustlers and pimps and need to make something about medieval or ancient Black history. But this exposes another problem that maybe those said Black filmmakers may not even be aware of it themselves!! But there are a few influential Black filmmakers like Spike Lee, etc that SHOULD know.
I was watching an interview with Dave Chappelle where they were asking him about some show and he said he wanted to have a black girl play one particular role and he said the studio denied saying they wanted someone more "universally appealing." Now, Hollywood has changed a lot over the years now doubt. I'm not saying it's racist anymore, but at the end of the day it's still run like a business. And sometimes (most of the time), they sacrifice creativity for market appeal and demographic appeal. I find Mel Gibson's new movie Apocalypto to be very refreshing seeing as how it's not euro-centered (which again, I'm not saying is bad...but I'd like to see something different every once in a while).
I totally agree with everything you said, King Scorpion! However, Arrow is right about one thing, and that Hollywood is a business whose profit is based on popular (mainstream) public appeal.
Of course most white Americans are not that racist where they would have no interest in non-European based historical movies. On the contrary, I believe they would be just as interested if not more so since most of them know little about non-Western related history. Mel Gibson is doing a good job at that with his new movie (despite his anti-Jewish views).
As for Arrow, YOU of all people can't be talking about who is the most racist people on earth and who has "racial complaints" considering your absurd claims of ancient Egyptians' skin color as well as your hilarious theory on prehistoric Central Asian kacazoids who wandered into the Sahara to start Egyptian civilization! LOL Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:I totally agree with everything you said, King Scorpion! However, Arrow is right about one thing, and that Hollywood is a business whose profit is based on popular (mainstream) public appeal.
I know. I was saying the same thing.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Arrow, whether you LIKE it or NOT, racism exists even though it is not as bad as it used to be. King's point was that Cleopatra was NOT the greatest Queen of Egypt. If you want to talk about racism and ethnocentrism, lets start there. Cleopatra wasnt even REALLY Egyptian at all. On top of that, she was a COLONIAL ruler of TRUE native Egyptians. So all that huff and puff about racism is more of a SMOKESCREEN to divert attention from the fact that the TRUE great Queens of Egypt are NEVER shown in the movies. Why? Why arent Africans who hailed from the SOUTHERN areas of Egypt, shown as fighting for freedom AGAINST white invaders? Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were INVADERS, they were NOT heroes and the Egyptians only TOLERATED them because they had no choice. Therefore, if someone TRULY wanted to see a movie about a GREAT Queen of Egypt, why not choose Hatshepsut, Tiye, Ahmose Nefertari, Nefertari or even Nefertiti? Seems to me, it is very LOGICAL to ask why WESTERN countries seem to be fixated on "heroes" who are COLONIZERS and OCCUPIERS in African lands. And to say that someone is RACIST because they would rather see Africans as FREE from foreign oppression and as victorious OVER white OPPRESSORS is a statement of NONSENSE.
Africans in Egypt DID CONTINUALLY fight against WHITE invaders. Africans DID NOT look at white invaders as "HEROES" and certainly not the Greeks or Romans. In fact, the only reason for being "happy" about the invasion by Greeks is because it got rid of the Persians. However, this does not CHANGE the fact that ancient Egypt was ruled by NATIVE kings and queens who were TRUE heroes of Egypt and the population. The Greco Roman "hero" of Cleopatra is not even in the same category compared to those TRUE heroes of ancient Egypt and is nothing more than a glorified "colony swap" from one European colonial power to another. NO African should view colonial rulers, either now or in the past as "heroes", no matter HOW you try and spin it.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Doug, you know very well that it's because Arrow is racist himself. All his ranting about blacks being racist is his own psychological projection. Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Lets hope not Doug but there are no colonial powers in the world now. Colonialism was a product of the 19th and 20th centuries. We now live in a global economy in which colonialism would not work. As for being a racist, thats comical. Blacks are the most racist people on the planet. Most people do not give it a second thought.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Lets hope not Doug but there are no colonial powers in the world now. Colonialism was a product of the 19th and 20th centuries. We now live in a global economy in which colonialism would not work.
That is not entirely true, as now the more powerful nations are using the new global economy for an imperial economy. Same situation for 'developing' nations but under a new method.
quote:As for being a racist, thats comical. Blacks are the most racist people on the planet. Most people do not give it a second thought.
Really? Last time I checked, blacks don't form hate groups and attack others based on their 'race'. Blacks in Africa do not attack and kill white foreigners visiting their countries as whites in Europe have been doing to blacks and other people of color visiting their countries. And blacks do not come up with such ridiculous theories in a "Mediterranean race" or that wander Kacazoids somehow made their way into the central Sahara to start civilization in Egypt. Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Lets hope not Doug but there are no colonial powers in the world now. Colonialism was a product of the 19th and 20th centuries. We now live in a global economy in which colonialism would not work. As for being a racist, thats comical. Blacks are the most racist people on the planet. Most people do not give it a second thought.
How about something RELEVANT to the discussion of "BLACKS" being RACIST? How do you define "BLACKS" and how do you define RACISM? And, better yet, how does ANY of this have to do with the FACT that Cleopatra was NOT a NATIVE Queen of Egypt and that giving Egypt to the Romans was NOT a victory for Egypt, therefore, NOT making Cleopatra any sort of "HERO" in Egyptian history. Unless you suggest that prostituting yourself to Roman rule is a sign of "power" and dignity.......
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Cleopatra was a hero of egyptian history in the minds of MOST people. You may not like that but its just a fact. If I asked the average person about Amenhotep III they would have no clue what I was talking about and they would chnage the subject if I tried to tell them.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Cleopatra was a hero of egyptian history in the minds of MOST people. You may not like that but its just a fact. If I asked the average person about Amenhotep III they would have no clue what I was talking about and they would chnage the subject if I tried to tell them.
Cleopatra is romanticized for a number of reasons, but most importantly...if you go back to the Cleopatra movie some decades ago...it was easy to cast white actors for a mostly white ruling class (ie. the Ptolemies). It became a convient story too because of the love affair she had with Marc Antony and Octvian. Point is, most people could only tell you of two or three Ancient Egyptian rulers...
1. Cleopatra - because there has already been a movie about her, 2. King Tut - Tut is only known because of all the treasure that was found in his burial chamber...and the archeologists that died. 3. Ramses the Great - The Bible, connection with Moses
Other than that...some people MAY know about Seti I, Neferiti, and some others, but the ones above are the main ones people know about. If a movie was made about Kamose expelling the Hyksos...people would know a lot about him too.
My point is, Cleopatra isn't widely known because she was important...but because she has been romanticized to death by western films and academia. That doesn't make her a hero.
Posted by tk101 (Member # 12361) on :
if thats true Arrow then its thats a shame that someone like here gave eygpt on a siver plater to rome...being a world power, i dont think egyptians at that time would have liked being ruled by romans...
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
I doubt the average person on the street in ancient Egypt cared much about who ruled them .
King, I do agree with you but for a different reason. Rome is important in the west for all of the obvious reasons. Frankly, when you combing that with a good story you have the success of Cleopatra. people like to see stories about Henry VIII killing his wives as well. They could care less about Edward the Confessor.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I doubt the average person on the street in ancient Egypt cared much about who ruled them .
King, I do agree with you but for a different reason. Rome is important in the west for all of the obvious reasons. Frankly, when you combing that with a good story you have the success of Cleopatra. people like to see stories about Henry VIII killing his wives as well. They could care less about Edward the Confessor.
So what? This isnt about what people on the street think. It is about FACTS. Cleopatra wasnt even an Egyptian. So she cannot be a "Egyptian" hero. She was Greek, represented a Greek dynasty and Greek blood and GREEK rulership of Egypt. Her "romance" with Rome only kept Egypt as the last semi-autonomous Greek colony in the Mediterranean, long after Greece had ceased to exist as a Great Empire. Therefore, NOTHING she did had ANYTHING to do with being a "Great" Egyptian.
Conversely, MOVIES dont care about whether she was Egyptian or not, they only care about what PEOPLE think and are willing to PAY MONEY for. Doesnt change the facts and doesnt make her a REAL Egyptian hero.
Period.
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Yeah, but people don't see it that way and in reality she was egyptian. Her family had ruled for a couple of centuries. I understand what you are saying but a good drama about Rome and cleopatra is something you can sell. Its a good story. It would be nice if more people cared about history but such is not the case.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Yeah, but people don't see it that way and in reality she was egyptian. Her family had ruled for a couple of centuries. I understand what you are saying but a good drama about Rome and cleopatra is something you can sell. Its a good story. It would be nice if more people cared about history but such is not the case.
She was a GREEK Egyptian and did NOT represent an INDIGENOUS bloodline or CONNECTION to the ancient rulers of dynastic Egypt. So WHATEVER the people like and want to pay money for doesn't change the facts, good story, bad story or in between story. Facts are facts, fiction is fiction and Cleopatra is a romantisized European fantasy dressed in Egyptian clothing.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Yeah, but people don't see it that way and in reality she was egyptian. Her family had ruled for a couple of centuries. I understand what you are saying but a good drama about Rome and cleopatra is something you can sell. Its a good story. It would be nice if more people cared about history but such is not the case.
Thing is though, you can make a drama based around MOST long gone empires. The Hyksos situation is VERY pivotal in AE history because it was the dawn of the New Kingdom and brought about the 18th Dynasty (one of the more successful and stronger Dynasties). This is not a hard story to tell for someone willing to do a little research. But the thing is, people get lazy. There have been more adaptations in the past 6 years in a LONG time. As successful as movies like Lord of the Rings are, it already came with a fan base. Peter Jackson didn't contribute anything to the story.
The fact that Hollywood continues to tell the same stories (ie. Cleopatra, etc) not only shows a lack of creativity or originality, but smells of laziness on the part of screenwriters who don't want to put forth an effort to bring anything new to the table. Or maybe they try, but can't get a studio to give it the greenlight (which is more likely).
Posted by RU2religious (Member # 4547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen:
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: Just another excuse to make a historical a based around white people.
Evergreen Writes:
It is our responsibility to tell our story. I have an undergraduate degree in screen writing and I focus on writing historical pieces. One of my life goals is to get one of these scripts produced.
What type of films are you looking at making or writing King_Scorpion??
Ahhh. ... this might be a good chance for you to do a little networking ...
Hit me up ...
UPDATE!!! ... I mean you said that you want to write historical pieces but are you trying to do docs... or theater?
Peace!~
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by RU2religious:
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen:
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: Just another excuse to make a historical a based around white people.
Evergreen Writes:
It is our responsibility to tell our story. I have an undergraduate degree in screen writing and I focus on writing historical pieces. One of my life goals is to get one of these scripts produced.
What type of films are you looking at making or writing King_Scorpion??
Ahhh. ... this might be a good chance for you to do a little networking ...
Hit me up ...
UPDATE!!! ... I mean you said that you want to write historical pieces but are you trying to do docs... or theater?
Peace!~
I'm PLANNING to transfer to a film school after next semester to major in screenwriting. And yes, when I do make it (because I know I will )...I'm planning to TRY to make a movie about something dealing with ancient or medieval Black history. I'm still throwing some ideas around in my head though.
Posted by RU2religious (Member # 4547) on :
^ check your email.
Peace!~
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
For the record, Cleopatra was the only one in her family (the Ptolemies) to actually fluently speak the Egyptian language and practice the Egyptian religion.
She maybe a foreign ruler, but she certainly did her best to represent the Egyptian culture.
Funny how the most famous Egyptian ruler could really be thought of as one of the early examples of whites emulating black culture! Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
By the way, here is an excellent book on the historiography of Cleopatra and the romantacism and sensationalism involved in the centuries of her portrayal:
Cleopatra : histories, dreams and distortions by Lucy Hughes-Hallett
Posted by Underpants Man (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Funny how the most famous Egyptian ruler could really be thought of as one of the early examples of whites emulating black culture!
You mean she was a wigger?
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: maybe more black people should buy tickets and it might change. Most people are VERY WEARY of racial complaints.
Arrow,
no disrespect, but your ignorance is nauseating and, honestly it is starting to piss me off. Either you are a white boy, or someone that is very ignorant. If you were a Middle Eastern Muslim in America right now, you could totally vibe with King Scropion. You sound kinda like "Kramer" from Sinfield who made those stupid remarks some time ago.
Let me state the obvious: if you have gone through what my people have gone through for the past 400 years, then you have a right to state whatever you want. Otherwise, you ought to simply shut your mouth.
Tell me Arrow: DID BLACK AMERICANS INVENT RACISM????????? If not, then why are you mad at my people for being PISSED OFF that this s--t exists!!!!!!!!?
Bottom line: stop being ignorant. Read some stuff. I tell everybody, Black, white, whatever, read Malcolm's X's autobiography. That book is a classic. Let your father be murdered by the "Black Legion(an alternative KKK)", and then justify to me why Malcolm X shouldn't have been angry with the racism in America.
Peace be with you Arrow. I hope you wake up and smell the roses. Salaam
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Yeah, but people don't see it that way and in reality she was egyptian. Her family had ruled for a couple of centuries. I understand what you are saying but a good drama about Rome and cleopatra is something you can sell. Its a good story. It would be nice if more people cared about history but such is not the case.
She was a GREEK Egyptian and did NOT represent an INDIGENOUS bloodline or CONNECTION to the ancient rulers of dynastic Egypt. So WHATEVER the people like and want to pay money for doesn't change the facts, good story, bad story or in between story. Facts are facts, fiction is fiction and Cleopatra is a romantisized European fantasy dressed in Egyptian clothing.
Doug is right. Yet, some of the Greek dynasty was Black. I have seen some pics of the Ptolomies who were pretty much as Black looking as King Tut. But Doug is right, even though Cleo got down with the Egyptian culture, she really didn't represent Egypt, techinically speaking, because of her ancestry. Therefore, she might not have been white, but she probably wasn't Egyptian(i.e. more Black looking), know what I mean? Salaam
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Guess you are just going to have to be pissed off Israel. Its better to be pissed off than pissed on. Malcom X was a radical who did tremendous harm to black people in America.
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
.......
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I'm not very sure about what I'm about to write and really need as objective as possible further input.
Was it the Ptolemys who introduced the colour line? I mean didn't they actually segregate certain cities barring native residence? That would've been quite different than the natural trend for ethnies to hole up in separate quarters of a given city or town.
And I was under the impression that Cleo may not have been 100% Greek in that her or her father's mother's identity is unknown but assumed to be "native."
Also though it was ultimately for her own power Cleo intended to keep Egypt free by her sexual manipulation of both Ceasar and Antony (generals weilding the most advanced military science of the time and placing such at Cleo's disposal). It seems she knew the "tender trap" would fail against Octavian and so took the noble way out due to frustrated design rather than love sickness.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^Yup that sums is it up right there.
I know the popular 'afrocentric' theory is that Cleopatra may have had native ancestry. Although it is possible (through a concubine), I don't know how likely it is.
As you said Takruri, even the Ptolemies practiced methods of segregation during their colonial rule. In fact, the Ptolemy family was xenophobic enough not to marry outside their family, but "keep it in the family" so to speak. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Underpants Man: You mean she [Cleopatra] was a wigger?
Well I personally find that word to be silly but, yeah! Whatever you wanna call it. LOL Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Guess you are just going to have to be pissed off Israel. Its better to be pissed off than pissed on...
Ironically the exact same philosophy that Malcolm X lived by and was the reason why many whites like you thought of him as being too "radical"!
quote:..Malcom X was a radical who did tremendous harm to black people in America.
Apparently not as much harm as whites have done, hence the reason why Malcom X and other black militants rose up in the first place.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
The Ancient Egyptians are 'worshipped' by White folks, are very popular as pop culture demonstrates; a) count the amount of movies that deal with antiquity; how many are devoted to Ancient Egypt, as opposed to Ancient Rome (usually Christian themed.) or Ancient Greece - how many films have had as their local Sumer - Babylonia (I can only think of DW Griffiths' silent film "Intolerance"!
b) How many White folks who believe in re-incarnation claim that they were some queen or pharaoh in Ancient Egypt and rarely a re-newed Greek, Roman, Celtic, or any white folk from the past...
People re-create their gods in their own image, that's why Jesus the Christ looks Nordic in the West but African in, say, Nigeria.
It's more a natural condition than it is fostered by racism. The only problem with "white" Egyptians is that it robs Black folks of an important part of the Black heritage. This can't be allowed to continue...
Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Arrow,
no disrespect, but your ignorance is nauseating and, honestly it is starting to piss me off
lol israel, something about your style is funny
quote:Either you are a white boy, or someone that is very ignorant.
quote:originally posted by horemheb: Guess you are just going to have to be pissed off Israel. Its better to be pissed off than pissed on.
lol, anyway hore, take israel's advise, stop absorbing PROPAGANDA, and read!
You, me amigo, have it twisted up. (and by the way, I get MY views from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, and LEARNING on MY own, and NOT from being FED.)
I suggest you think outside the BOX also.
Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
Oh yeah, Doug:
quote: How about something RELEVANT to the discussion of "BLACKS" being RACIST? How do you define "BLACKS" and how do you define RACISM? And, better yet, how does ANY of this have to do with the FACT that Cleopatra was NOT a NATIVE Queen of Egypt and that giving Egypt to the Romans was NOT a victory for Egypt, therefore, NOT making Cleopatra any sort of "HERO" in Egyptian history.
you question posed was already answered in a preceding post:
quote: ^ Doug, you know very well that it's because Arrow is racist himself. All his ranting about blacks being racist is his own psychological projection.
It's psychological. Why else do trolls bring things up often when nobody was talking about it. They project it onto others .
And Horemheb it's a funny thing that when you come around, the race topics buzz! Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Frickin Shakespeare wrote about Cleopatra, its a good story. Its no more complicated than that.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: By the way, here is an excellent book on the historiography of Cleopatra and the romantacism and sensationalism involved in the centuries of her portrayal:
Cleopatra : histories, dreams and distortions by Lucy Hughes-Hallett
The romantacism and sensationalism involved with Cleopatra + the Egyptomania that has ensued in the West is what this obsession is all about plain and simple.
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
Interest in the Roman empire has had a good bit to do with it as well. Sometimes a story catches on and has a life of its own. The stroy has all the elements that people seek. Power, beauty, betrayl, danger,etc. Plus, in the end a beautiful women kills herself and the rest. Egypt also makes a great setting for a story like that.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^You are aware, that most scholars now think that she didn't commit suicide but was murdered. And if by chance she did commit suicide it wasn't because of an asp, because her death was too quick.
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Guess you are just going to have to be pissed off Israel. Its better to be pissed off than pissed on. Malcom X was a radical who did tremendous harm to black people in America.
Well, your colors are revealed. You are definitely a white boy! If there is nothing else I know about you, it is that your a white boy. Only an ignorant white boy would say that(let me just state to the other people here that when I say 'white boy', I am not necessarily talking about skin color as much as MENTALITY.....). NO BLACK PERSON IN THE WHOLE NORTH AMERICA WOULD SAY THAT MALCOLM X HARMED BLACK PEOPLE. Everybody, even his critics, would say he stood up for Black people. What an ignoramous...........
Why is it that you have problems with "racial complaints"? White people created racism, so why are you mad that Black people are calling it what it is? You are acting like Black people created the race problems in this country. Do you know how assinine that makes you look? I ain't pissed, because I know what I am dealing with.....I am dealing with an ignorant white boy, who may in fact be an undercover racist, just like Kramer.......lol. Salaam
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
BTW Arrow,
The Ancient Egyptians were Black........just in case you didn't know............LMAO! Salaam
Posted by Underpants Man (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Count the amount of movies that deal with antiquity; how many are devoted to Ancient Egypt, as opposed to Ancient Rome (usually Christian themed.) or Ancient Greece - how many films have had as their local Sumer - Babylonia (I can only think of DW Griffiths' silent film "Intolerance"!
Unfortunately, most movies on ancient Kemet focus on one of three themes:
Usually the Kemites come across as evil or antagonistic in movies with the latter two themes and as extras in the first one.
Posted by Underpants Man (Member # 3735) on :
BTW, I had to take issue with this:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Really? Last time I checked, blacks don't form hate groups and attack others based on their 'race'. Blacks in Africa do not attack and kill white foreigners visiting their countries as whites in Europe have been doing to blacks and other people of color visiting their countries. And blacks do not come up with such ridiculous theories in a "Mediterranean race" or that wander Kacazoids somehow made their way into the central Sahara to start civilization in Egypt.
Actually, there do exist "black supremacist" groups like the Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites. I doubt they have the ability to do much harm though, considering their numbers. Ironically, many black racist organizations have made alliances with white racist organizations.
As for the black equivalent to Arrow99's "Asians settling in the Sahara to found Egyptian culture", have you forgotten our very own Clyde Winters? He believes some as-yet-undiscovered race of Africans started civilization in the Americas. You also have Marc Washington, who imagines Africans as far from Africa as Japan.
That said, these black racists don't have that much power and will probably never amount to anything beyond red herrings used by white racists to distract anti-racists from countering the bigger problem of white racism.
Posted by ARROW99 (Member # 11614) on :
i do not think racism is restricted to any particular group of people.
Posted by G.O.D (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: maybe more black people should buy tickets and it might change. Most people are VERY WEARY of racial complaints.
maybe more white people should stop monopolising the economy and allow black people the chance to actually make some [decent] money and not just scraps so they can afford the luxury of buying a ticket.
do you think we're so stupid that we don't know that institutionalised racism [usually at the work place] is your new game [i.e. since slavery is becoming harder & harder to manage]?
even black people who 'get it' know white people are generally racist.
Posted by G.O.D (Member # 11484) on :
quote: Posted by Doug M
...And to say that someone is RACIST because they would rather see Africans as FREE from foreign oppression and as victorious OVER white OPPRESSORS is a statement of NONSENSE.
damn, I wish I could speak like Doug. He always says what I feel to say but just doesn't come out in the right words.
Posted by Horus_Den_1 (Member # 12222) on :
Israel and Arrow99 warning do not generalise or go off-topic
racism or semi-racism or generalizations of any group of people is not allowed on this forum
G.O.D warning goes for you to.
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
quote:Originally posted by Underpants Man: BTW, I had to take issue with this:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Really? Last time I checked, blacks don't form hate groups and attack others based on their 'race'. Blacks in Africa do not attack and kill white foreigners visiting their countries as whites in Europe have been doing to blacks and other people of color visiting their countries. And blacks do not come up with such ridiculous theories in a "Mediterranean race" or that wander Kacazoids somehow made their way into the central Sahara to start civilization in Egypt.
Actually, there do exist "black supremacist" groups like the Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites. I doubt they have the ability to do much harm though, considering their numbers. Ironically, many black racist organizations have made alliances with white racist organizations.
As for the black equivalent to Arrow99's "Asians settling in the Sahara to found Egyptian culture", have you forgotten our very own Clyde Winters? He believes some as-yet-undiscovered race of Africans started civilization in the Americas. You also have Marc Washington, who imagines Africans as far from Africa as Japan.
That said, these black racists don't have that much power and will probably never amount to anything beyond red herrings used by white racists to distract anti-racists from countering the bigger problem of white racism.
Are you kidding me? First and foremost, who in the whole freaking world would blame a Black supremacist group for being "Black sumpremacist"? Who could blame them? Seriously Underpants, think about it............
Secondly, J. Edgar Hoover felt that the Black Panthers were so dangerous that he created the Contelpro; that government operation by which they sought to eliminate the Black Panther Party by all means necessary, including assassinations, set-ups, etc. They did this because they FEARED the Black Panther Party. Trust me my friend, probably nothing scared them more than the "Million Man March" back 10 years ago. If the masses develop "critical mass" and catch unto revolutionary ideas, MAN, I would feel sorry for any white racist..........
Again, can you blame Black groups for being prejudiced towards whites, Arabs, whomever? Can you blame them? The white supremacists hate because they simply want to hate. Black groups are reacting to the hate that has been directed towards them, understand?
Maybe nobody has taught you anything, so there is a brief lesson. Salaam
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
Sorry Horus,
no disrespect, I am simply telling the truth. Salaam
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
No more off-topic post please everybody. Stay on topic please!!!!
Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Underpants Man:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Count the amount of movies that deal with antiquity; how many are devoted to Ancient Egypt, as opposed to Ancient Rome (usually Christian themed.) or Ancient Greece - how many films have had as their local Sumer - Babylonia (I can only think of DW Griffiths' silent film "Intolerance"!
Unfortunately, most movies on ancient Kemet focus on one of three themes:
Usually the Kemites come across as evil or antagonistic in movies with the latter two themes and as extras in the first one.
^^ True, and I for one would like to see something new about AE.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Cleopatra, the sultry Egyptian queen of the Nile.
But little do most people know:
(1) She is not ethnically Egyptian but Greek
(2) From reports, she wasn't the extraordinary beauty most think she was. This doesn't mean she was ugly, just not the great beaty of the world.
(3) Most think she was a lustful woman (whore) who had a thing for powerful Roman men. In reality she did what she did to protect her nation and if she wanted to, could have killed those men at anytime she wanted.
These are three main corrections to the three main misconceptions about the woman.
Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
^^Yeah, I know all of these are big, I especially noticed 1&2 the most.
#1 I just recently found out and (probably this forum, if not, not to long before) # 2 "I always heard: "everyone all over the world thought she was the most beautiful woman. So she is the most beatiful woman of all time."
As for number #3 yeah I saw of givin it up the this guy in a movie when I was little, actually come to think of it, I saw her again, in perhaps the same movie, she was always getting exploited like that was what she lived for, or so, the movie seemed to suggest.
Yet she was also a prize, almost like a property to be had, or won.
Guess I didn't remeber her as a whore because 1. I didn't care all that much. B. at a younger age and I still don. I just thought of her a bit of a feisty, yet somehow dangerous, thang\ person\ princess\ PRIZE.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
1999 version of Cleopatra starred Leonor Varela a Chilean, born in Santiago, Chile.
Posted by What Box (Member # 10819) on :
^^Does Billy Zane play some guy after her, a protaganist (I think)? Does she belong to the guy on the right in the movie? Or is it a war movie as the cover implies?
It may have been one I've seen.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
quote:Originally posted by What Box: ^^Does Billy Zane play some guy after her, a protaganist (I think)? Does she belong to the guy on the right in the movie? Or is it a war movie as the cover implies?
It may have been one I've seen.
Timothy Dalton (Caesar), Billy Zane (Mark Antony)
It was a TV movie by Hallmark.
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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Underpants Man: BTW, I had to take issue with this:
Actually, there do exist "black supremacist" groups like the Nation of Islam and the Black Hebrew Israelites. I doubt they have the ability to do much harm though, considering their numbers.
That maybe, but have you heard about any of these groups attacking and terrorizing whites and beating them or killing them the same way you hear about the KKK (back then) and the Skinheads today?
quote:Ironically, many black racist organizations have made alliances with white racist organizations.
LOL Because both have a lot in common in regards to protecting their special interests in the concept of "race" and "racial purity".
quote:As for the black equivalent to Arrow99's "Asians settling in the Sahara to found Egyptian culture", have you forgotten our very own Clyde Winters? He believes some as-yet-undiscovered race of Africans started civilization in the Americas. You also have Marc Washington, who imagines Africans as far from Africa as Japan.
LOL You have a point there!
quote:That said, these black racists don't have that much power and will probably never amount to anything beyond red herrings used by white racists to distract anti-racists from countering the bigger problem of white racism.
Indeed, while white racists tend to hold more power and more influence.
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: i do not think racism is restricted to any particular group of people.
If you think racism is somehow "natural" you are WRONG. Modern racism as we know it today was invented and wholly concieved by White Western Europeans. The only reason why we have racist blacks and other nonwhite peoples is because they have merely adopted the concepts and in their reactionary backlash against white racism.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
But getting back to the topic, again I recommed the book Cleopatra : histories, dreams and distortions to everyone on this forum if they want to get a better understanding of the true history behind Cleopatra as well as the made up fables more historically known.
I hope Myra can find the book and cite some stuff from it in this forum.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I think the Beydani Maurs can give the Euros a run for the money as to who practiced modern anti-black racism first.
Something strange happened to those peanut butter, honey, caramel, etc., coloured Yeminis when they hit south of the "Rio de Oro."
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: i do not think racism is restricted to any particular group of people.
If you think racism is somehow "natural" you are WRONG. Modern racism as we know it today was invented and wholly concieved by White Western Europeans. The only reason why we have racist blacks and other nonwhite peoples is because they have merely adopted the concepts and in their reactionary backlash against white racism.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
The bottom line is, you can blame Hollywood, as well as it's financial backers for the blatant racism they promote, and endorse. It's their thing, and it is what it is.
If the author of the thread wants a more appropriate scapegoat, then point a finger at Bill Crosby, Oprah Winfried, Spike Lee, and the host of other African American multi-millionaires who devote their creativity & resources to catering to the white or mainstream markets. Since estimates show 70% of "Rap" music is consumed by teenage whites, This definitely applies to rap artist and producers. Especially true for rappers and films, which seem to be on a mission to ensure that 1,000,000,000 variations of "Boy In The Hood" are in the J-Mart $1.89 bargin bin.
African-Americans spend 10s to 100s millions of dollars per year on entertainment developed by black writers and producers. Quite often, black thought is utilized from the very concept, to end product. BET. Radio One, Black Family Channel, Quincy Jones, Ebony/Johnson publishing, Why aren't THEY interested in writing our history? Wouldn't that draw in record black dollars in support of epic class productions of, The Bible The Scorpian King (The real one) The Pyramid Builders Jesus, Martin Luther King?
Instead, Forest Wittakers new movie of Idi Amin Spike Lee is documenting Katrina (very well done) Oprah is doing The Color Purple revisited Morgan freeman is doing a cop movie The Wayans are doing step'n'fetch it, etc.
Personally, I'd like to see more modern recreations like, The John Brown Story, The Marcus Garvey Story, or even The Reggie Lewis story; the Baltimore black man that created the $2 billion Beatrice Foods Corporation and wrote the book, Why Should White Boys Have All The Fun.
Still, I cannot bring myself to endure, even a minute of watching what they did to Egyptian history with, Stargate, The Scorpian King, Atlantis, The Mummy (and it's return) or any of the other numerous trash films recently released to mock & distort history.
Posted by Supercar (Member # 6477) on :
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The bottom line is, you can blame Hollywood, as well as it's financial backers for the blatant racism they promote, and endorse. It's their thing, and it is what it is.
If the author of the thread wants a more appropriate scapegoat, then point a finger at Bill Crosby, Oprah Winfried, Spike Lee, and the host of other African American multi-millionaires who devote their creativity & resources to catering to the white or mainstream markets. Since estimates show 70% of "Rap" music is consumed by teenage whites,...
African-Americans spend 10s to 100s millions of dollars per year on entertainment developed by black writers and producers. Quite often, black thought is utilized from the very concept, to end product. BET. Radio One, Black Family Channel, Quincy Jones, Ebony/Johnson publishing, Why aren't THEY interested in writing our history?
As you said, perhaps it has to do with 'generating' money, and nurturing of the idea that the 'white' audience isn't ready to see 'blacks' in the role of figures that Eurocentric-minded folks romanticize about. Amongst that list, I would give some credit to Spike Lee, who has dedicated enough share of his productions to "Black" historical struggles, including the recent attention to the Katrina cause.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by Supercar: I would give some credit to Spike Lee, who has dedicated enough share of his productions to "Black" historical struggles, including the recent attention to the Katrina cause. [/QB]
I especially liked Spike giving Clarence Williams III some work in, Tales from The Hood. It was good to see Link back on the screen again.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Cleopatra VII
Gold ring engraved with a portrait of Cleopatra VII. The queen wears a tripartite wig, vulture headdress, modius with multiple uraei, sun disk and horns, and is intended to be identified with the goddess Isis. Her profile is reminiscent of the image featured on Cleopatra's coinage.
Cleopatra wrote her own mythology, following the lead set by Cleopatra III in exploiting the cult of the mother goddess Isis as a means of reinforcing her own role as living goddess. This theological blurring was acceptable in Egypt, where royalty had always been associated with the divine, and where the ordinary people were effectively excluded from the worship of the state gods. If Cleopatra wanted to declare herself a living goddess, 'The New Isis' (a title which she presumably chose to distinguish her from her predecessor Cleopatra III), few Egyptians would either know or care overmuch. But in Rome, where the cult of Isis was taken very seriously, and the temples were open to everyone, Cleopatra's role as intermediary between the goddess and her people was simply unacceptable. The queen found herself in the curious position of being semi-, or maybe even fully, divine in her own country, but a mere mortal in Rome.
What Did Cleopatra Look Like?
Cleopatra is rumoured to have written a beauty book, passing her secrets on to other women, but what did she herself really look like? The classical authors are divided. Plutarch rates her as little more than averagely good looking. Cassius Dio, in contrast, ranks her amongst the world's most beautiful women, as 'brilliant to look upon and to listen to . . .'.
Many early art historians had a tendency to identify any woman shown holding a snake as Cleopatra VII. If these dubious identifications are ignored, we are left with surprisingly few images of Egypt's last queen. Her surviving portraits may be split into two distinct groups. The Egyptian style images, preserved in statuary and on temple walls at Dendera, depict as we might expect a traditional enigmatic queen of Egypt: tall, slender, bewigged, draped in the finest linen and wearing the double plumes, solar disk, cow's horns and uraeus of a traditional queen. Such images reveal little of the real Cleopatra, beyond her wish to be identified with the mother goddess Isis.
Housed at the British Museum, London
Her coinage shows a woman with an unfashionably prominent nose and chin. Marble busts, recovered from Rome, show the same features slightly softened, although again the queen is by no means an outstanding beauty; she looks determined rather than seductive. Maybe, then, Cleopatra's appeal lay in the charm of her voice. The historian Plutarch, who had been less than impressed by the queen's appearance, was certainly struck by her linguistic abilities:
"It was a pleasure merely to hear the sound of her voice, with which, like an instrument of many strings, she could pass from one language to another, so that there were few of the barbarian nations that she answered by an interpreter".
Cleopatra VII, last queen of Egypt, committed suicide on August 12, 30 B.C.. The Greek historian Cassius Dio records her passing:
" No one knew for certain how she had died. They only found small pricks on her arm. Some said she brought an asp to her . . . ."
Reference:
Images and text from Chronicle of the Queens of Egypt, From Early Dynasty Times to the Death of Cleopatra, by Joyce Tyldesley, (2006), pp. 203, 205-206
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Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
Very interesting.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
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Doug, you know very well that it's because Arrow is racist himself. All his ranting about blacks being racist is his own psychological projection. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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