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Originally posted by Thought2:
{Yes, ancient Egyptian civlization lasted longer than Sumerian only because of the natural location of the Nile Valley.}

Thought Writes:

What evidence do you have to support this contention?

{New excavations in China are showing cities as old as 8,000 years in China. Are you aware archaeologist have found man made structures submerged in parts of Taiwan that about this old?}

Thought Writes:

Man made structures = cities?

{Who knows what a pick or a shovel of archaeologist will turn up}

Thought Writes:

At this point we will have to wait. However, at present Egypt is older.

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Pakistan: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/334517.stm

This 'battle' will go on if only because it depends upon how you define true writing, something not all agree on.

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Originally posted by rasol:
I doubt writing has a single point of origin.

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Originally posted by Kem-Au:
There was an article posted here quite a while ago that suggested that Egypt was older than Sumer and developed writing earlier. This was not only based on the tombs of Dynasty 0 kings, but also some Rock writing found in Southern Egypt. Does anyone have more info on this?

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It is important to keep in mind that Egypt is younger than the other Sudanic or Nilotic cultures, and those of the once fertile "Sahara". As research continues into the African past, the antiquity of Sumer as opposed to Egypt will become increasingly irrelevent...

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Originally posted by Wally:
It is important to keep in mind that Egypt is younger than the other Sudanic or Nilotic cultures, and those of the once fertile "Sahara". As research continues into the African past, the antiquity of Sumer as opposed to Egypt will become increasingly irrelevent...

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Right on. Kemet's cultural origin doesn't begin with Unified Ancient Egypt. The age of the Nile Valley civilization is still yet to be appropriately determined.

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Originally posted by Wally:
It is important to keep in mind that Egypt is [b]younger than the other Sudanic or Nilotic cultures, and those of the once fertile "Sahara". As research continues into the African past, the antiquity of Sumer as opposed to Egypt will become increasingly irrelevent...

[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 31 January 2005).][/B]

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Originally posted by Kem-Au:
Right. In the case of this topic, I'm specifically talking about the cultures that would be considered Upper Egypt/Lower Nubia today, where KMT originally bagan and where they (probably) developed writing.

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Originally posted by HERU:
I think people forget Egypt and Sumer had similar "gods", indicating a common origin.

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Originally posted by Super car:
How so?

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I was reading The Sirius Mystery and Robert Temple quotes Budge, saying:

"It is surprising therefore to find so much similarity existing between the primeval gods of Sumer and those of Egypt, especially as the resemblance cannot be the result of borrowing. It is out of the question to assume that Ashur-banipal's editors borrowed the system from Egypt, or that the literay men of the time of Seti I borrowed their ideas from the literati of Babylonia or Assyria, and we are therefore driven to the conclusion that both Sumerians and the early Egyptians derived their primeval gods from some common but exceedingly ancient source. The similarity between the two companies of gods seems to be too close to be accidental..."

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Originally posted by HERU:
I was reading The Sirius Mystery and Robert Temple quotes Budge, saying:

"It is surprising therefore to find so much similarity existing between the primeval gods of Sumer and those of Egypt, especially as the resemblance cannot be the result of borrowing. It is out of the question to assume that Ashur-banipal's editors borrowed the system from Egypt, or that the literay men of the time of Seti I borrowed their ideas from the literati of Babylonia or Assyria, and we are therefore driven to the conclusion that both Sumerians and the early Egyptians derived their primeval gods from some common but exceedingly ancient source. The similarity between the two companies of gods seems to be too close to be accidental..."

True Budge doesn't flat out say Sumerians and Egyptians are of the same stock, but it does make one wonder. How else could they have similar pantheons?

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Originally posted by HERU:
I don't know much about it, and I don't think anybody really does, but maybe this common origin is the once fertile Sahara.

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The only region that has noticeable Mesopotamian influence is the Delta region around Buto. Sumerian influence came into Egypt by the Delta and not by the Red Sea.

All the precussor to early Egyptian civlization is found in Nabta Playa in Southern Egypt. The cattle burial at Nabta Playa shares some connection to spirtual beliefs and cattle during the old Kingdom.

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Originally posted by HERU:
I was reading The Sirius Mystery and Robert Temple quotes Budge, saying:
"It is surprising therefore to find so much similarity existing between the primeval gods of Sumer and those of Egypt, especially as the resemblance cannot be the result of borrowing. It is out of the question to assume that Ashur-banipal's editors borrowed the system from Egypt, or that the literary men of the time of Seti I borrowed their ideas from the literati of Babylonia or Assyria, and[b] we are therefore driven to the conclusion that both Sumerians and the early Egyptians derived their primeval gods from some common but exceedingly ancient source. The similarity between the two companies of gods seems to be too close to be accidental..."
True Budge doesn't flat out say Sumerians and Egyptians are of the same stock, but it does make one wonder. How else could they have similar pantheons? [/B]

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Western historians predicate the beginning of history with the beginning of writing, and in order for Asia to take precedence over Africa in terms of being the earliest civilization they go to extremes to demonstrate that this precondition existed first in Sumeria. (It also presumes that the original inhabitants of Sumer were not from Africa, which is another story...)

The Anu - and why the Kemetians didn't just "spontaneously start writing in hieroglyphics"

--Professor C.A. Diop informs us that the first hieroglyphs were brought down from the south by the conquering Anu people...

the Mdu Nter
--the Mdu Nter means literally "the words of the god (Thoth)"; the Anu god of writing, wisdom and learning and the arts; scribe of the gods.

--So according to the Kemetian view of history, it was the Anu who originated the system of writing, so therefore, the question to be answered is did this advancement originate with the Anu people, or did they derive it from a more ancient African culture? (keeping in mind the fact that it is the Anu, themselves, who are writing these documents)

--we know that the spoken language originated in the Great Lakes region in Africa.
So while the decipherment of the Meroitic script may be useful, the Kemetian documents are much older.

I think the information provided us by the Mdu Nter would be the proper clues to follow, that is if we can get at these documents...

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That plants were pictured from Nubia means little.

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Where the plants and animals that make up Egyptian writing are actually FROM means a great deal according to linguists such as Christopher Ehret.

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Originally posted by rasol in response to Horemhab:
Where the plants and animals that make up Egyptian writing are actually FROM means a great deal according to linguists such as Christopher Ehret.

But, frankly, you're a total buffoon and I don't want to waste other peoples time by explaining the obvious to you.

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Yes, these emotionally immature folks are something else, they appear very juvenile in their behavior...

But to the point; you have raised an important point, and it should be chronicled (the origins of the pictorial representations in Egyptian art). Budge did some of this, of which I previously gave an example:
Origin of the Ht hieroglyph ("the god's house)

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The first of these (early temple images) is clearly an African hut, the sides of which are made of plaited reeds; the roof is made of some vegetable material which has been tied together, and consisted probably of a thick mat made of solatik similar to that which covered my tukul (hut) at Marawi (Abu Dom) and other places in the Sudan...the three curved lines in front represent the palings which are fixed before the tombs of great men all over the Sudan.
--Osiris, EW Budge, p.247-8

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We need to complete this work! We all have the capacity...