posted
1) Have a basic understanding of Islam and Coptic Christianity as the religion is very important here
2) Try and learn more about the strata of society and geographic location of your intended. i.e. Upper Egyptians think differently from cairiens
3) Have a basic understanding of Middle Eastern politics, the 6 day war and its affect on Egypt, The British Mandate, etc
4) Arabic, the more language you know the better especially for communicating with other members of the family that don't speak English, often the women
5) Your in laws; although a particular area, religion, class might have certain attitudes your particular family might have completely different ones.
6) Egyptian cooking and food, gives you a big insight into have they spent the entire weeks food budget on that meal for you, how many hours of preparation went into the food.
Now lets get down to the fella and your future if you got together what
7) country, IMHO it is better for the Westerner to move to Egypt but what ever you should both feel the same
8) children, are you going to have any, what religion, what upbringing
9) jobs what realistically could either of you work in, what salary does that pay, what lifestyle will that give you
10) setting up a business. You hear this so many times we will set up a business together. What experience do you have of running a business in your country where you know the rules regulations tax situation law etc. How easy would it be to set up a business from scratch not knowing all of that and with no experience. How soon would it provide you with a living
11) roles in the UK we sort of know and assume that if you are a husband or wife you will behave in a certain way. In Egypt those roles are different. So you may be talking the same language but the mean is totally different to both of you. find out what those meanings are. Take a 'good wife' to him that might mean staying at home all the time, producing children, hand washing and ironing his galabeyas, cooking endless meals to you that might mean having a good career that means you are able to contribute equally to the family budget.
12) if he is a Muslim there are certain things both the religion and more especially the culture allow e.g multi wives, wife beating, fgm. Do you and him see eye to eye on these important matters.
13) what is your religion and how accommodating of it is he, Muslims can marry non Muslims but does he believe that or is he expecting you to convert
14) make sure you know your law, both in your own country and your husbands country. What are your rights, can you get a divorce, who gets custody of the children
And all that before you sign the papers, sell the house and get the settlement visa PLEASE!!!!!!
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
thanks akshar great post i would love to learn arabic is ther anyway on the net i could learn
Posts: 197 | From: hertford england | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by mlebev: wwwhhhhaaaaattttttttt
it means try and help yourself a little bit, it is not very difficult to obtain information on online arabic instruction.
la'sahibek 3asal latilhasuh kolloh if your friend is honey don't lick all of it
You said you wanted us to help make your time fly by faster, well i am trying my best Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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If Your Friend (Ashkar) Is Honey (sweet, helpful, etc) Don’t Lick (use up all their time, energy, patience, and kindness. Try to help yourself too. It All (All of what they have to offer)
La'sahibak 3sal latilhasuh kolloh!
it's an Arabic saying
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: Slooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww motion:
If Your Friend (Ashkar) Is Honey (sweet, helpful, etc) Don’t Lick (use up all their time, energy, patience, and kindness. Try to help yourself too. It All (All of what they have to offer)
La'sahibak 3sal latilhasuh kolloh!
it's an Arabic saying
she has got a good point mlebev, a lot of the questions you ask are available on the net or this site using search
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
2) Try and learn more about the strata of society and geographic location of your intended. i.e. Upper Egyptians think differently from cairiens
How do you find this out? I mean even if you know where he is from how would you learn how they think in that area vs another area?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: 2) Try and learn more about the strata of society and geographic location of your intended. i.e. Upper Egyptians think differently from cairiens
How do you find this out? I mean even if you know where he is from how would you learn how they think in that area vs another area?
there are a great number of sociological and anthropological books on this matter. They make s fascinating reading. On my shelves I have Re-envisioning Egypt 1919-1952 The Middle East and What Went Wrong by Bernard Lewis Culture Shock Susan Wilson Khul-Khaal Five Egyptian Women tell their story Nayra Atiya Shahhat An Egyptian Richard Critchfield Honour and Shame Women in Modern Iraq Sana al-Khayyat
There are also authors like Naguib Mahfouz, Ahdaf Soueif who wrote excellent fiction. Read the Sugar street series for a great insight into Cairo. Ahdaf Soueif is my favourite and how she intertwines politics and love. then and now. I also have books from a series by Arabic women writers The Stone of Laughter Hoda Barakat Mothballs Alia Mamdouh The Eye of the Mirror Liana Badr The Homeland Hamida Nana In the House of Silence Fadia Faqir
I also have about 10 books of the 'Not without my daughter' type which give you a great insight into the arrogance of some Western women and the impotence of Arab men in being able to explain some of their deep held beliefs.
BTW when people say a multi cultural relationship needs working at I mean this seriously. Whilst I am delighted to share my book list why on earth haven't you gone down the local library and done some research.
As for knowing where he comes from, ask!!!!!!!
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I know where he comes from. I just figured people are people and you have good and bad in every culture. Everyone has a diffrant thought process even in the same neighborhood.
I came from multi culture parents and never saw it as such a great obsticle.
Every relationship needs working at. Are you aware of the divorce rate in America?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: I know where he comes from. I just figured people are people and you have good and bad in every culture. Everyone has a diffrant thought process even in the same neighborhood.
I came from multi culture parents and never saw it as such a great obsticle.
Every relationship needs working at. Are you aware of the divorce rate in America?
There that is your first big mistake. By never reading these kind of books or looking into things properly you have applied Western values to people, neighbourhood and community. In Egypt the community or family is more important than the individual. In the same neighbourhood there will be many common thoughts about things. The family or community will unite, especially in their opinion of a foreigner and a marriage between a foreigner and an Egyptian. The needs family and community will often come before the wife. Money also will be distributed to other family and community members. Helping them get married, by a house or car, have medical treatment etc
I suggest you get reading
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Thank you for your advice akshar. I will take your suggestion and read some of these books.
I still hold to the idea of good communication and that comes from the individuals involved no matter what culture they come from. There are successful and unsuccessful relationships regardless of culture, religion, or socioeconomic status. You can see this fact portrayed on this very board.
I am curious, are you Egyptian?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
No I am British married to an Egyptian and living in Egypt
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Thank you for sharing. Belive me I weigh things heavly. So your insight is appreciated.
Do you mind me asking if you are happily married?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Very happily married for nearly 5 years now. Previously I had been married for 12 years to Syrian who died. So I have had 17 years of marriage to Arabs. My love affair with Egypt has been going on 43 years now.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
That is wonderful news. I am so happy to hear this.
My dad and his brother both married Italian women. My mother is not living but I have a healthy relationship with my aunt who has lived in the Middle East and Egypt. She encourages me to go to Egypt. She almost married an Egyptian man. I don't know the details as to why she did not but I do know that she met my uncle while she was living in Iran.
Probably more than you wanted to know...
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: there are a great number of sociological and anthropological books on this matter. They make s fascinating reading. On my shelves I have Re-envisioning Egypt 1919-1952 The Middle East and What Went Wrong by Bernard Lewis Culture Shock Susan Wilson Khul-Khaal Five Egyptian Women tell their story Nayra Atiya Shahhat An Egyptian Richard Critchfield Honour and Shame Women in Modern Iraq Sana al-Khayyat
There are also authors like Naguib Mahfouz, Ahdaf Soueif who wrote excellent fiction. Read the Sugar street series for a great insight into Cairo. Ahdaf Soueif is my favourite and how she intertwines politics and love. then and now. I also have books from a series by Arabic women writers The Stone of Laughter Hoda Barakat Mothballs Alia Mamdouh The Eye of the Mirror Liana Badr The Homeland Hamida Nana In the House of Silence Fadia Faqir
I also have about 10 books of the 'Not without my daughter' type which give you a great insight into the arrogance of some Western women and the impotence of Arab men in being able to explain some of their deep held beliefs.
BTW when people say a multi cultural relationship needs working at I mean this seriously. Whilst I am delighted to share my book list why on earth haven't you gone down the local library and done some research.
As for knowing where he comes from, ask!!!!!!!
Reading is helpful yes, but nothing worth learning is ever taught.
Reading all the books in the world is no substitute for experience, the only teacher.
Posts: 2404 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
"Reading is helpful yes, but nothing worth learning is ever taught."
thats very profound VanillaBullshit...I like it
On another note, I wonder whether any of us would do all the things we advise others before getting married, I didnt think culture would matter that much...but it did, i guess we have to find out for ourselves
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: "Reading is helpful yes, but nothing worth learning is ever taught."
thats very profound VanillaBullshit...I like it
On another note, I wonder whether any of us would do all the things we advise others before getting married, I didnt think culture would matter that much...but it did, i guess we have to find out for ourselves
Wanderer, In what way did it matter so much? And has it caused you to have a bad marriage?
I had a horrible first marriage and we grew up in the same school district.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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No, I haven't had a bad marriage at all, but it has thrown additional things into the equation that marrying someone from a similar background to mine wouldnt bring, such as:
Ways of parenting, roles of men and women, religious beliefs, ways of dressing, ways of acting - with reference to both sex's, ideas about friendship.
i'l give you some examples - I see my family/friends every now and then, nothing regular, however egyptians generally tend to be much more close than that so i risk offending people. I have discovered that british people keep quite a distance so i dont go out of my way to be a good host/bring presants/make clear that i cant make it for whatever reason but insist on doing something tommorrow, i guess what i'm saying is I could offend easily just by being my normal self, which british people wouldnt find aloof.
I need to be willing to cook a lot of food for guests and invite them over, often.
I need to be sure to visit people when they are sick, even maybe once a day.
I need to be wary of my communication with men, eye contact, being too friendly, not touching in a 'friendly' way (no such thing in arab cultures, like in UK)
I need to be careful about how i dress, because it could be seen as disrespectful
I need to be careful of how i speak to my husband and what i say, because it could be seen as disrespecting him.
I need to be aware of the close relationship he has with his family and friends, kissing, hugging etc.
I need to be ok when him and his friends are chatting in arabic and i have no clue whats going on, all night.
I needed to learn to cook good egyptian food, cos no one likes english food..lol.
soooo much but i will stop there, maybe others could add
and i havent even started on religion or children...lol
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yes those are good points wanderer, typical but not universal
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Never had any problems with my other half. He is very laid back about things.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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I know akshar and they certainly aren't make or break relationship stuff, they were the first things i could think of, but, like you said, they do highlight how little things you dont think of, even about your own cultural upbringing can make things harder.
In a relationship where you both share the same culture you dont think twice about soooo much stuff, i guess you take it for granted. I'm not explaining myself well tonight because i'm very tired so forgive me. I'm trying to say, Akshar is right and it will surprise you.
Young at heart, of course people are all different. Do you live with your other half?
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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Exactly Vanilla, and I did find it really annoying at first, but although my husbands english is very good, some of his friends are less confident and i supose they enjoy talking to each other in arabic.
It doesnt bother me anymore, i got used to it, i just switch off, and they do speak in english when they talk to me and my husband is more aware than perhaps they are so includes me. BUT i am quite oblivious to it now to be honest, its only a problem when they start talking to me and i dont hear them cos i'm in a world of my own that ive been in for the past half hour while they were busy chatting...lol
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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How many of those things can you apply to a man from your own country? We are speaking of academics here. Relationships are much more complex.
I have had many opportunities to marry American men and for one reason or another I have not wanted to. Either there was no physical attraction, or a drinking problem, or the man was a pompas ass, or political differences, or he enjoyed visiting prostitutes in Costa Rica... and some of them would seem the perfect match if you get your score card out.
I would imagine that you have opportunity to be with British men. Why did you choose the Egyptian? Why do you stay?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I love my husband very much and wouldn't change it for a second, like you say, there are many things in a culture that you might not like. When I met my husband I was dissatisfied with many things and the way of life of my own culture, I already wanted change, but at that time I didnt know what.
If i'd have met him 10 years earlier there would have been no way on earth it would have worked, because i would have been at a different stage in my life, I dont think i would have accepted a different way of life, in fact I know i wouldnt have.
I'm sure you can apply alot of those things to anyone, I am purely speaking of a few of the changes that I had to make, the awareness that I had to develop. I cant speak for all Egyptians or all british, only my experience and those i have observed.
My husband would say the same too, he might struggle with the fact that as a brit i am not very expressive of my emotions - that could make him think i am cold, or maybe his family would think that way.
He might think that as a brit i am not close to my family - i am but my closeness is different to what he is used to.
he might think that i cant cook, because he doesnt like english cooking
he might interpret me saying 'hi' to a bloke as a sign that i am a flirt and dont respect him
he might think that i was wearing tight fitting clothing to attract male attention, when in fact i was wearing it because it was the norm.
he might think i am trying to dominate him if i want to work or pay for things in the house. when to me, i just want to help.
he might think that i am disrespecting him or being arguementative because i have a point of view, he may see that as challenging, i see it as 'just me'
I might want to walk into town, he might want me to get a taxi, i might argue my point and he might see that as me wanting to be 'the man', i might get annoyed and see his behaviour as controlling, or over the top, he might think he is just protecting me.
All i am saying is you have these in addition to the adjustments you have to make in any relationship, so it can be more complex, add any extra thing into a relationship and its going to be harder, thats fact. Learning about some of these things prior to getting married will at least help people know how they are going to deal with them, or whether they CAN deal with them.
As vanilla said, he would find that rude, in some circumstances i agree it can be, but i also understand that it is inevitable.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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ya i got some advice too... run.. take hide your $$$ and go im not talking like, jogging away, i mean book it!!!!!!
Posts: 229 | From: florida | Registered: Apr 2007
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Then again, what do I know, i've only had one mixed culture relationship so i could be completely wrong! maybe its just us...lol
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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i have a lot of respect for my future husband and he does let me have a point of view hes very protective and sometimes but he doesnt tell me what to do or anything like that he makes slight suggestions and i respect him more for that
Posts: 197 | From: hertford england | Registered: Jul 2007
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When you are living there 24/7 you will find that things are not exactly as you thought. My husband was completely different when I was a tourist to when I moved here. Things didn’t matters then but they did when I was living there. I chose to submit to everything and then gradually things changed again. Once I had the respectable reputation then things could relax. It is like taking your driving test and looking in the mirror. You have to exaggerate it in order the examiner notices but one you have passed the test you can be more normal.
I have said this before when you are really living here then a thoughtless action on your part could harm your sister in laws chance of getting married. Because you are not an individual anymore you are a part of that family, that village that town. In the UK my actions affected nobody but myself and I didn’t care. Here I had to care.
And if your husband does not lay the law down then frankly my dear he does not give a damm. It means you are not part of the family; he is able to dismiss your activities. You don't count. So of course he does not waste time saying you can't wear that, do that, say that, laugh like that. If he cares about you and wants you to be a real part of his life then he will change you.
Remember when in Rome be like the Romans. And if you don't want that fine, don't marry him.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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the only thing that he told me to do was change my top cos he didnt like me showing too much shoulders chest and top i was a bit shocked at first but we sat down and he exlained why what i am trying to say is that he tells me what to do but not in a bad way he explains everything so there is nt a argument
Posts: 197 | From: hertford england | Registered: Jul 2007
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i respect what my b/f says to me he expresses his views but he doesnt do it in a nasty way and demands things
Posts: 197 | From: hertford england | Registered: Jul 2007
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Great discussion here. I too am married to an Egyptian man, I am American. Why did I marry him? Nothing more than we met, we fell in love and the rest is history. lol After 20 years of marriage and living in Egypt, I wouldn't change a thing. I will say he is very western in his thinking, but I do have to respect the culture here and do not find it a problem at all. The thing that is important is to meet his family before you get married. See how they live, see how they act towards you and if you feel you'll be accepted. The way he's raised will make a difference in how your life will be. If the family doesn't accept you, you'll have a very difficult time. This is a class oriented society, so it's good to find out about his lifestyle and the only way to find out is to meet the family. If your from a big city and he's from a small village, you will have one heck of time, education is another point. It's a give and take situation, you must both be open minded and respectful of each others cultures and religion. You'll find that over time and years, you both will give in a bit and change your ways without even realizing and then you'll live in harmony. Not sure harmony is the word. lol Also, if you meet your Egyptian outside of Egypt, they may act very different but when they move back to Egypt,,they revert back to their old ways. This can cause a big problem also. I was lucky as I got to know mine in Egypt so what I saw was what I got. lol
Posts: 68 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2007
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It is not about the way he says it that I am trying to get over but that you need to think about these things before you get involved.
I threw away a lot of my wardrobe when I moved here. But there was one top I thought ok and it wasn't. It wasn't a issue if he said I couldn't wear it then I couldn't And you don't go around saying 'I am not going to be dictated to, he knew what I was like etc etc' You have to accept that living in Egypt as the wife of an Egyptian you have to behave differently.
eshtadiva would you like to share some of the stories from your life. If you have been here 20 years it must have been even more conservative when you came. I would be very interested to hear more
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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I can relate totally to what Akshar is saying and the 'looking in the mirror' analogy is spot on.
I think I have been misunderstood also, I'm not saying that my husband does these things in a nasty or horrible way, I'm trying to get accross that he has attached different meanings to things/events than I have and that is often apparent.
I dont think that cultural difference should STOP you being involved with someone, you may grow to love the differences, I have, I am very happy to live the way I do alhamdullillah, but it took some getting used to and I was no different to many people on here- I thought it was nonsense, people are people, which they are, but we dont live in bubbles and our ideas about the way things 'should' be come from our culture.
I wonder whether egypt was more conservative? I have seen pictures of the 60's and 70's and they are full of people with behives and 'western' clothes more than today, in some respects I think Egypt came back to religion - I had expected to see a black and white world of abayas..lol
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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I am enjoying this conversation too. I appreciate this frank discussion.
I think that it takes an open minded person to even entertain the idea of getting involved with someone from a different culture. I would think this to be true from both the man and the woman.
It is important for my Egyptian friend (I will call him my friend because we haven't met yet) that I become Muslim. I know that if he didn't care about me it would be no issue at all. He has said that he accepts me as I am, yet he is always showing me videos of Americans who become Muslim. He tells me that he is not asking me to convert just to watch the video.
There have been times where we wern't understanding the other's meaning but we keep discussing it until we get it. We have also discussed the cultural differences and have concluded that this could be something that may actually make the relationship stronger. You go into it knowing that you have to compromise and work toward understanding each other.
I think eshtadiva statement says a lot "we met, we fell in love". I have heard people say that love is a choice but I have not experianced it that way. I don't know what the future holds but I do know that when I am with him I feel peace. Even if I have been upset his demeanor brings me back to a peace and comfort. At first I was closed to the possiblity but now after two and a half years, I am open to it. We want to meet to see if we feel the same in person as we do online.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I agree with you of_gold you love who you love. It sounds as if you are at least thinking about these things, which is more than I did, like you say, you work through things as they arise.
I do think a relationship is easier if people share the same beliefs about God and to be honest Islam made more sense to me than Christianity when I started looking into it, as long as it comes from you then it is good
when are you planning to meet?
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: "Reading is helpful yes, but nothing worth learning is ever taught."
thats very profound VanillaBullshit...I like it
On another note, I wonder whether any of us would do all the things we advise others before getting married, I didnt think culture would matter that much...but it did, i guess we have to find out for ourselves
I also agree with VB, I've read a couple of "informative" books and they helped me almost not at all. Everything I have benefited from has come from living in Egypt, being married to my husband and being immersed in the culture and the families and asking lots of questions. Once you get past the the initial stint of living in Egypt, people will be much more honest with you about the culture, the soceity and how things work. It really is an eye-opener. I have learned so much, mostly that no two families are alike and you can definitely NOT judge a book by its cover.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I have a contract that is up in October. I am working toward being able to take a trip then. I have never traveled over seas so the whole thing is a new adventure for me. I have my American passport but I am waiting on my Italian birth certificate to be able to apply for my Italian passport. I have dual citizenship.
How does Islam make more sense to you Wanderer?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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It is true, because in the same way that I have rejected some cultural 'norms' of my society, there will be people in Egypt doing the same, so really I suppose you can only have knowledge of what these cultural norms might be, whether your man conforms to those will be individual. Also, I think the more a person lives in a society, they will gradualy adopt their ways of thinking to some extent
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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of_gold, I think factually it made more sense, scientific facts in the Qur'an and a prophet after Jesus, also I had never viewed Jesus and God as one and the same. I supose they were the main points but also socially it appealed more, the emphasis on family, prayer as part of your everyday, throughout the day, everything you do being related to your religion, I felt more surrounded by it. I found the sense of community much stronger and no longer felt alone, mostly I felt that I could relate to people better than I could before, I had always felt a bit of an outsider in my own religion and community and with Islam I found somewhere I fitted. On a relationship level, finding a man who was 100% man but loved his family wanted commitment and a wife was unusual for me, alot of men in my society are busy proving to themselves that they are men by having multipe 'encounters' with women and generally there is a negativity surrounding marriage and children, its viewed as a hardship rather than something to be celebrated.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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Actually Wanderer, I have a debate in myself about Jesus being God. I have read recently that the Hebrew text says that he was born of a young woman, not a virgin. But the Quran also reads that Jesus was born of a virgin. My view is not that one is wrong and one is right but that God is bigger than religion and looks at the heart not the religion. I see religion as a way for man to understand what we can not comprehend. I call myself a Christian because I belive in the teachings of Jesus. Not that I fit in, I definitely don't.
I can relate to the relationship part. Here it seems that most men cheat on their wives and wives cheat too. I want a true love, one that can evolve to the fullest expression.
It seems that many of you have decided to settle in Egypt. May I ask why? and do you have children?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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