posted
I don't think a class action suit will work against Egypt. But that does not mean we should be silent.
Some of you were lucky and had the freedom to marry. A few of us have not be granted the same freedom. It is not wrong for us to want what you have period!
To go to Egypt and live as man and wife is wonderful and exactly what I would like to do. There are reasons this is not totally feasible although it is being considered. I do not feel a public forum is a good place to discuss private issues. I can honestly say that there are very good reasons that this is not totally feasible for my situation.
BUT, we have to speak out to others. Maybe it will not do any good. We may never know. But nothing will ever happen if we just sit and do nothing.
I listen to all replies. Many of you have great tips and experience and that is valuable even if I do not like what is said. Often it gives me the incentive to go forward no matter what.
I am just asking that we all start brain storming. This is a forum and a great place to do that. If you do not want to make phone calls don't. If you do not like any of the ideas that is ok, no problem. But, we are trying to get what you have and unless you have a reason we should NOT have it then I see no reason for us to stop seeking a life with a person we love.
If anyone wishes to send me a private message I will be glad to respond. I seriously think the more that are working the stronger the voice.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I dont understand what you are talking about sand. It isnt a matter of our government from what these ladies are saying. So you want to force other governments to do as the american government wishes Isnt this kind of superior attitude that causes the problems in the first place? We have no right to tell another government how they should run their affairs,really.Its obvious by what is being said on here that it is the egyptian government, not american government, who has problem. Can you not just follow other governments rules without the superior " I am american and the world shall follow what we want". Why is it such a problem to marry in egyptian civil marriage, be a Legal wife in the eyes of egypt, not orfi, but LEGAL then come home with your pictures and file the K1 petition?? As long as you are his wife isnt that all that matters then take the rest of way from there??? I would have no problem doing this to be with my love ,to me its better than waiting all this time to be in his arms.IF you really loved him and he love you, wouldnt this make you happy Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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It's not wrong for you to want what YOU want. Everyone is entitled to fight for what they want. Like I said before, a class action lawsuit or anything like that just isn't reasonable. I would continue to contact senators and congressppl or whomever you think could help you. Perhaps one day they'll reinstate the no objection statement. They reinstated DCFs after they suspended them several months back.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
We are not acting superior. I do not wish to force anyone to be like the US. Living in Egypt is exactly what I want. But we have to do this the right way. My right way may not be "right" for others. I will not force my way on anyone and I encourage everyone to at least live in Egypt for a period of time. I hope to be there very soon on a very long term basis.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think?
Posts: 1 | From: united kingom | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by melz: i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think?
quote:Originally posted by melz: i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think?
Although you are obviously a troll it is stories like these that has resulted in the actions of the American and Egyptian governments
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by melz: i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think?
Although you are obviously a troll it is stories like these that has resulted in the actions of the American and Egyptian governments
quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: We are not acting superior. I do not wish to force anyone to be like the US. Living in Egypt is exactly what I want. But we have to do this the right way. My right way may not be "right" for others. I will not force my way on anyone and I encourage everyone to at least live in Egypt for a period of time. I hope to be there very soon on a very long term basis.
Good luck with your move to Egypt. Why exhaust yourself with the marriage situation from the US embassy. You will find it so easy to have a civil marriage in Egypt.
It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
What reason should an Egyptian gouvernment need for such a measure? Is the USA the only country who has had problems concerning the marriage/visa/immigration issue?
quote:Originally posted by Penny:
quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: We are not acting superior. I do not wish to force anyone to be like the US. Living in Egypt is exactly what I want. But we have to do this the right way. My right way may not be "right" for others. I will not force my way on anyone and I encourage everyone to at least live in Egypt for a period of time. I hope to be there very soon on a very long term basis.
Good luck with your move to Egypt. Why exhaust yourself with the marriage situation from the US embassy. You will find it so easy to have a civil marriage in Egypt.
It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
posted
Originally posted by melz: i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think? go for it Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: Good luck with your move to Egypt. Why exhaust yourself with the marriage situation from the US embassy. You will find it so easy to have a civil marriage in Egypt.
It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
Well is does seem prejudiced against people wanting to leave Egypt rather than those that are quite happy to stay here. I guess that is a clue
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Have any of you spoken to the senators or their assistants? Here is a link to white house and contact lists. http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
And a quick search finds the Oprah show and how they are looking for show topics. I mean, as long as Tina asks the "men only" topic maybe we would make Jerry Springer ..
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
i spoke to my congress man im still waiting for his answer mmmm they take their sweet ol time
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: [It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this? [/QB]
Americans are not allowed a legal marriage even under Egyptian law. The Islamic marriage of the foreigner must be registered in the court. That is where the judge will say that he must have the no-objection paper from the Embassy or the couple must marry 'oficially' in the Ministry of Justice. There is no other official way for an American to be lawfully married in Egypt. The only option it is Orfi, which is does not require court appearance.
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: [It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
Americans are not allowed a legal marriage even under Egyptian law. The Islamic marriage of the foreigner must be registered in the court. That is where the judge will say that he must have the no-objection paper from the Embassy or the couple must marry 'oficially' in the Ministry of Justice. There is no other official way for an American to be lawfully married in Egypt. The only option it is Orfi, which is does not require court appearance. [/QB]
A court registered marriage does not require anything from the Embassy so yes Penny is right you can get married. The embassy are only involved if you want your marriage recognised outside Egypt and then you have to go through that procedure. But if you are happy to just be married in Egypt or can only be (second wives) then a court marriage is perfectly acceptabe.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: [It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
Americans are not allowed a legal marriage even under Egyptian law. The Islamic marriage of the foreigner must be registered in the court. That is where the judge will say that he must have the no-objection paper from the Embassy or the couple must marry 'oficially' in the Ministry of Justice. There is no other official way for an American to be lawfully married in Egypt. The only option it is Orfi, which is does not require court appearance.
A court registered marriage does not require anything from the Embassy so yes Penny is right you can get married. The embassy are only involved if you want your marriage recognised outside Egypt and then you have to go through that procedure. But if you are happy to just be married in Egypt or can only be (second wives) then a court marriage is perfectly acceptabe. [/QB]
cool thats all we want is to be married in egypt outside who cares lol
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: [It is a strange situation though when you are allowed to marry in Egypt with a fully legal marriage under the laws of the country but you cannot marry at the Ministry of Justice. I wonder what is really behind all this?
Americans are not allowed a legal marriage even under Egyptian law. The Islamic marriage of the foreigner must be registered in the court. That is where the judge will say that he must have the no-objection paper from the Embassy or the couple must marry 'oficially' in the Ministry of Justice. There is no other official way for an American to be lawfully married in Egypt. The only option it is Orfi, which is does not require court appearance.
A court registered marriage does not require anything from the Embassy so yes Penny is right you can get married. The embassy are only involved if you want your marriage recognised outside Egypt and then you have to go through that procedure. But if you are happy to just be married in Egypt or can only be (second wives) then a court marriage is perfectly acceptabe.
cool thats all we want is to be married in egypt outside who cares lol [/QB]
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by melz: i HAVE MET AN EGYPTIAN MAN ON LINE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR 5 DAYS AND HE HAS ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM. He is always saying that he loves me. He also want to marry me. I am 39 and he is 19. What do you think?
Match made in heaven, jump in with both feet. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Tina you realize that you will have an unofficial marriage and that it is not recognized by the USA and therefore he can not apply for a visa right? Why not go meet him, then come home and apply for a K1 that way you can marry here in the states and travel between the countries. If you marry you can not apply for a K1 and your marriage does not qualify for a K3. I just caution you about running over there to marry and not realizing the negative side of the situation
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: Tina you realize that you will have an unofficial marriage and that it is not recognized by the USA and therefore he can not apply for a visa right? Why not go meet him, then come home and apply for a K1 that way you can marry here in the states and travel between the countries. If you marry you can not apply for a K1 and your marriage does not qualify for a K3. I just caution you about running over there to marry and not realizing the negative side of the situation
I understand what you are saying to Tina from the VISA situation but just because the marriage is not recognised by the USA does not make it an 'unofficial' marriage. This is a legal marriage that complies with the laws of Egypt. The USA does not set the laws for the whole world. If she chooses to reside in Egypt then it is all she needs and the marriage will legally entitle her to residency there.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: Tina you realize that you will have an unofficial marriage and that it is not recognized by the USA and therefore he can not apply for a visa right? Why not go meet him, then come home and apply for a K1 that way you can marry here in the states and travel between the countries. If you marry you can not apply for a K1 and your marriage does not qualify for a K3. I just caution you about running over there to marry and not realizing the negative side of the situation
we did not want a visa that would defeat the porpose of livin thee he dont wanna come here we are tryin to find a way for us both to stay ther
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Tina you never plan on him visiting the states although hopefully that issue will resolve itself.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
i am yes to visit my kids and family but he wont come he never wants to come here so we are not sure what to do yet
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: Tina you never plan on him visiting the states although hopefully that issue will resolve itself.
Well I am married to my husband under civil law not recognised outside Egypt and we got a visa for him to visit the UK. Having a civil marriage is no barrier to getting a visitors visa. I went into some detail about how we got that and our marriage not being conducted through the embassy was no problem at all. Didn't even get mentioned at his interview.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I found out that an official Egyptian marriage contract can be translated by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, then authenticated by the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs; and recognized all over the world.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Almaz: I found out that an official Egyptian marriage contract can be translated by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, then authenticated by the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs; and recognized all over the world.
Now that is interesting. Ladies you may have a break here.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Remember that lady who had her orfi recognised by a British court (against her will) it would seem that story might not only be true but fit with this.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
So will the Embassey accept this paper thenafter itis authenticated? Your speaking like if you marry buy lawyer then stamped by court the ministry will accept this?
-------------------- Brenda Posts: 73 | From: United States | Registered: Jul 2004
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almaz i have our marriage contract and i had it translated here in the usa. it is recognized in the states. i guess you can have it translated anywhere that it is authenticated by that person with a stamp or do i need the egy ministry of foreign affairs do it?
Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Almaz: I found out that an official Egyptian marriage contract can be translated by the Egyptian Ministry of Justice, then authenticated by the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs; and recognized all over the world.
perhaps between two egyptians? i don't see how that can be, as egyptian law is based on islamic law which allows for polygamous marriage, and in other countries, this is considered criminal and would land you in jail. that's the whole reason behind why foreigners need the 'special' procedure, because part of the process involves verifying a man isn't already legally married.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
it goes for all. Two Egyptians/ or two Muslims, or One Muslim man and a Christian woman/ married officially, but living in a non Muslim country are bound by the law of that country while legally living there, regardless of their religion. same law for all.
Two Egyptians can marry without a religious ceremony directly at the minister of justice. Not every Egyptian is Muslim and not every Christian Egyptian gets married in church, and not every Muslim goes through the religious ceremony. And an Egyptian can marry a foreigner at the Ministry of justice if her papers are recognized as legal/passport/divorce/death of a spouse doc/ all translated right there by the way.
Anyone can contact an international lawyer in their own country, and find out this info.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
If an Egyptian Muslim or Christian wants to marry a foreign woman in her own country and have the marriage registered in Egypt, he takes her to the Egyptian consulate or embassy of that country. The procedure is civil, and offcially doumented, in that foreign country, the papers are sent to Egypt to be registered at the ministry of Justice, they get back about 8 weeks later, authenticated. it may take 12 weeks if not translated from that foreign country's embassy to arabic all for extra fees. If this Egyptian man wants a religious ceremony he can go ahead. The Egyptian Consulate or Embassy will lead him or provide him with a Muslim/Sheikh or Maazoon or scholar, that will read the QORAN at the Embassy, or at the Mosque depending, and a certificate of such a religious marriage will be issued by the Muslim/sheikh/Imam/ or this Egyptian can go to the correct church if that is the case. That procedure is done once the legal documents of both spouses are checked for authentication.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
FURTHERMORE because of the polygamous issue, a Muslim man of any nationality cannot marry Religiously ONLY, in a Mosque, in a FOREIGN/Non Muslim country that requires CIVIL Marriage papers to be filled by spouses even at the Mosque, before the religious ceremony takes place. Every Mosque has the papers, and they are filled by the spouses, then the religious procedure takes place, then the Mosque administration is responsible for proceeding the civil papers, then they issue a religious certificate and the spouses receive their civil marriage papers. If that rule is not followed and gets known by the gov. of that Non Muslim country, the Mosque/Imam/Sheikh will find themselves hit with a suit by the Govnmt of that country.
you owe me about $500US by now Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
i disagree. if what you said is true, there wouldn't be the specific procedures for foreigners of certain countries which do not recognize polygamy put in place to begin with.
it makes no sense to have all that authorization, translation, and ministry of justice in cairo involved if a regular civil ceremony involving a non-egyptian and an egyptian was valid anywhere in the world.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
This sounds too good to be true.. not that I am doubting Almaz but the USA has set up the K1 and K3 visa for a reason. I do not know as they would allow people to go around those rules. When I said unofficial marriage I was referring to the United States opinion. If I have a civil marriage (if that is the correct term) I can not come home and file a K3. I can not file a K1 if I have been married or they suspect I am married. It feels like I have run in a circle and I would like to have more information
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Icon 1 posted July 27, 2007 08:51 AM Profile for ExptinCAI Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote i disagree. if what you said is true, there wouldn't be the specific procedures for foreigners of certain countries which do not recognize polygamy put in place to begin with.
it makes no sense to have all that authorization, translation, and ministry of justice in cairo involved if a regular civil ceremony involving a non-egyptian and an egyptian was valid anywhere in the world.
maybe i am not hearing you right but i got my translation here and it is recognized here in the us. i changed my name and everything so it must be authenticated right? Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
sure. i read my embassy's website. it's not a question of what's legal in egypt, so which country are you speaking of. and if it's the states, can you point which law it is, so that the ladies on here can cite the exact paragraphs/clause of US laws to their lawyers as reference and follow up?
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
My legal source says the recognition of an Egyptian official marriage authenticated by Egypt Ministry of Justice, translated and authenticated by Egypt Foreign affairs includes:
posted
almaz, i don't think you're understanding the issue. the source of debate here is that since April, the US embassy has refused to provide a particular piece of paper, that it has provided for years.
from your own source: Affidavit of Eligibility to Marry
All civil law countries require proof of legal capacity to enter into a marriage contract in the form of certification by competent authority that no impediment exists to the marriage. No such document exists in the United States. Unless the foreign authorities will allow such a statement to be executed before one of their consular officials in the United States, it will be necessary for the parties to a prospective marriage abroad to execute an affidavit at the American embassy or consulate in the country in which the marriage will occur stating that they are free to marry. This is called an affidavit of eligibility to marry and the fee for the American consular officer''s certification of the affidavit is $55.00, subject to change. Some countries also require witnesses who will execute affidavits to the effect that the parties are free to marry.
This message serves to inform the American community that the Consular Section of the Embassy is currently not providing the affidavit required by the Egyptian Government to authorize the marriage of a foreigner in Egypt.
The Egyptian Ministry of Justice, the authority conducting marriage in Egypt, officially notified the Embassy that it will not accept the Embassy’s form designated for that purpose as it does not fulfill the requirement stated under Egyptian law. The Government of Egypt requests the U.S. Embassy to object or approve the marriage of U.S. citizens. The U.S. government does not have legal authority to neither approve nor object to the marriage of American citizens. We understand that American citizens may be inconvenienced by this problem. The Embassy continues to pursue this with Egyptian officials.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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According to my legal source the American Citizen needs to get an affidavit from an International lawyer who would have done his or her background check, insuring in writing, the authenticity of the documents presented by the American citizen.
"In the past, the U.S. Embassy allowed American citizens to swear such an affidavit of eligibility to marry before a U.S. consular officer. The Embassy discontinued this practice several years ago, however, because local officials were interpreting these documents as meaning that the Embassy had actually verified the content of the citizens’ statements, when in fact the consular officer was merely attesting to the fact that the individual in question had made the statement." Source: U.S. Embassy
That is all I could get on the subject. Sorry if i confused anyone, i was sharing every word my legal source was giving me.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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Isnt this kind of superior attitude that causes the problems in the first place? We have no right to tell another government how they should run their affairs,really.Its obvious by what is being said on here that it is the egyptian government, not american government, who has problem. Can you not just follow other governments rules without the superior " I am american and the world shall follow what we want". Why is it such a problem to marry in egyptian civil marriage, be a Legal wife in the eyes of egypt, not orfi, but LEGAL then come home with your pictures and file the K1 petition?? As long as you are his wife isnt that all that matters then take the rest of way from there??? I would have no problem doing this to be with my love ,to me its better than waiting all this time to be in his arms.IF you really loved him and he love you, wouldnt this make you happy ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Sounds promising! *thumbs up*
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