Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Zack Galante
15 hours ago (edited)
I love your videos … but im surprised u left out Strabo a Greek historian and the only person to see cleopatra & her family and he quoted "Three classes inhabited the city (Alexandria in Egypt): first the Aegyptian or native stock of people, who were quick-tempered and not inclined to civil life; and secondly the mercenary class, who were severe and numerous and intractable..; and, third, the tribe of the Alexandrians, who also were not distinctly inclined to civil life, and for the same reasons, but still they were better than those others, for even though they were a mixed people, still they were Greeks by origin and mindful of the customs common to the Greeks."
Starbo also stated that cleopatra was the only illegitimate child of Ptolemy XII Auletes.
quote:
SignalHillTV
14 hours ago
You are close Zach lol Strabo is reporting in the third person. He is saying the Egyptians are stating why she is ineligible to be queen and why Bernice Iv could rule. So he states he had three daughters with only Bernice Iv being legitimate and the rest of the kids, Cleopatra Vii, and Arisinoe Vi, are illegitimate, and the sons were too young to rule. They expelled Ptolemy Xii Auletes. So most scholars believe their mother/mothers were Egyptian because they could write in hieroglyphics. Then remember Alexander the Great married Roxanna. Not sure what happens to Cleopatra V she is not mentioned again after Bernice Vi's birth which was recorded. "Strabo Geography Book 1" Then Zack you can also see how they are represented in Hieroglyphics they both clearly have skin tone) Perfume Payparus. Getty Images
quote:
SignalHillTV
14 hours ago
Now Zach before I go cut and paste and it will take you to the scholarly article. "From the reconstruction, Thur and her colleagues concluded that Arsinoe had an African mother (the Ptolemies were an ethnically Greek dynasty). That conclusion led to splashy headlines suggesting that Cleopatra, too, was African" everything in parentheses, now her, and Cleopatra could have had a different mother. But when you get a chance in your free time notice how they were excited when they found her remains in Esphues, and how they try to challenge and dismiss them when they said her mother was African. So think about that when you see how Cleopatra is depicted in Hieroglyphics standing next to Arisinoe because they are the same complexion.
quote:[QUOTE] 13 hours ago
Zack Galante
14 hours ago
@SignalHillTV Duane W. Roller in his book Cleopatra: A Biography, published by Oxford University Press in 2010. Roller argues that Cleopatra’s mother may have been a 2nd wife of Ptolemaios XII & that she may have been a member of the Ptolemaic royal family named Berenike & her husband Psenptais, who was an Egyptian high priest. Concluding cleopatra having a black Egyptian mother.
quote:Dr Jane Draycott
Nor do we know the identity of her mother. It has been suggested, based on Cleopatra’s ability with the Egyptian language and her devotion to the Egyptian pantheon, that she may have been a member of the family that held the hereditary priesthood of Ptah . This influential ruling family held high-level positions in ancient Egyptian cities like Memphis.
We have no securely identified portraits of her other than those found on her coins, all of which vary considerably. So any claims as to the specifics of her appearance can be safely dismissed.
As can sweeping statements regarding her identity. Cleopatra was simultaneously Macedonian, Egyptian and Roman. In the habit of emphasising different aspects of her identity to suit different audiences, she would not have considered herself either white or black, because modern concepts of race would have been unknown to her.
quote:If they all spoke in American accents you would have no problem?
Originally posted by BrandonP:
I did feel that too many of the actors in the dramatization spoke with British accents though.
quote:I would prefer they sounded like the cultures they represented.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:If they all spoke in American accents you would have no problem?
Originally posted by BrandonP:
I did feel that too many of the actors in the dramatization spoke with British accents though.
quote:In addition it's also often cheaper to hire British actors and in some instances the UK government offers financial incentives to do it
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/mar/08/get-out-daniel-kaluuya-samuel-l-jackson-black-british-actors
2017
Black American actors slighted as Brits nab roles: 'We can't tell our own stories?'
Samuel L Jackson’s critique of black British actors taking US roles has sparked a heated debate in Hollywood where African American performers said the hiring of UK talent is another form of industry discrimination they face on a regular basis...
When justifying the choice of hiring a British actor over an American, casting directors and film-makers sometimes cite the prestigious training in the UK at elite schools like the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art.
In an interview with the Observer, Peele (Get Out director) said he wanted to hire an American but was so blown away by Kaluuya: “At the end of the day, he was the best person for the role. He did the audition and it was a slam dunk.”
In 2013, Spike Lee told the Guardian he wasn’t bothered by the trend of British actors taking American roles: “They’re well-trained. They came through on the stage not on a music video or whatever. So their acting’s impeccable and then they go into films.”
quote:Yes it was actually very good, and a lot of bruhaha over nothing.
Originally posted by BrandonP:
I finished the Cleopatra docuseries today. It was a good series with a nice balance of expert commentary and historical dramatizations. I still stand by the actors' British accents being a little distracting though.
BTW, the first episode of the series states that the Egyptians of Cleopatra's time would have ranged in color from pale to dark brown, which as we all know is true of Egyptians today, so it isn't even like they're trying to divorce modern Egyptians from their Ptolemaic-era ancestors like a lot of the haters have claimed.
quote:
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
It seems though that some Egyptians had a horn in the side of "Afrocentrists" also before Netflix Cleopatra film.
Here is an Egyptian guy who talks about Afrocentrism (mostly in its American form)
A message from an Egyptian North African to the rest of Africans
He also made DNA tests with MyHeritage and My True Ancestry
My DNA test result with Myhertiage and Mytrueancesrty-- Modern Egyptian
quote:In many places in America there are few Arabs
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
^^ Obviously someone in her comments thought she was a Filipina
Here in my place people would probably called her Arab or Middle Eastern
quote:They should be embarrassed by their OVER REACTION. But, their OVER REACTION is revealing their anti blackness... the majority of the cast looked like average Egyptians and the priests were historically accurate
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Seems there is a whole ongoing campaign on YouTube and TikTok where young Egyptians scold American Afrocentrists
Seems the Netflix documentary has awaken a lot of resentment
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/roziOpYa7Xo
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TlE6BJzV15M
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kD83JIt5iDc
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1uTi8aVxTTA
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GMjf2edV7kw
https://www.tiktok.com/@angstyliving/video/7230925704613858587?q=%40egyptforEgyptian&t=1684089938886
https://www.tiktok.com/@egypt.for.egyptians/video/7223559438177668358?q=%40egyptforEgyptian&t=1684089938886
quote:Thank goodness for the existence of youtube, on there I can watch Egyptian news and tv shows, Eritrean news and TV shows. On both you will find a range of phenotypes.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Afrocentrism is NOT a coping mechanism. It has a 150 year history in the US & Caribbean. Some people are really racist and under educated which is a sin in a world where there is google.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Nora has posted another short video about Afrocentrism
Afrocentrism is a coping mechanism
quote:Link to its Amazon page
Afrocentrism has been a controversial but popular movement in schools and universities across America, as well as in black communities. But in We Can't Go Home Again, historian Clarence E. Walker puts Afrocentrism to the acid test, in a thoughtful, passionate, and often blisteringly funny analysis that melts away the pretensions of this "therapeutic mythology."
As expounded by Molefi Kete Asante, Yosef Ben-Jochannan, and others, Afrocentrism encourages black Americans to discard their recent history, with its inescapable white presence, and to embrace instead an empowering vision of their African (specifically Egyptian) ancestors as the source of western civilization. Walker marshals a phalanx of serious scholarship to rout these ideas. He shows, for instance, that ancient Egyptian society was not black but a melange of ethnic groups, and questions whether, in any case, the pharaonic regime offers a model for blacks today, asking "if everybody was a King, who built the pyramids?" But for Walker, Afrocentrism is more than simply bad history--it substitutes a feel-good myth of the past for an attempt to grapple with the problems that still confront blacks in a racist society. The modern American black identity is the product of centuries of real history, as Africans and their descendants created new, hybrid cultures--mixing many African ethnic influences with native and European elements. Afrocentrism replaces this complex history with a dubious claim to distant glory.
"Afrocentrism offers not an empowering understanding of black Americans' past," Walker concludes, "but a pastiche of 'alien traditions' held together by simplistic fantasies." More to the point, this specious history denies to black Americans the dignity, and power, that springs from an honest
understanding of their real history.
quote:If the series gets dropped it is because it is garbage. And actually, given the quality of the series so far, it probably is best they dont do any more. If they wanted to tell the truth of black history on the Nile, they would have started at the beginning. Using racism as an excuse means they are simply promoting racism in denying the facts. There is far more evidence of black rulers in all dynasties going back to the beginning of KMT than there is for Cleopatra. So obviously they aren't serious about wanting to tell 'hidden' black history.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
I wonder if they will make any documentary of Amanirenas. If they did they could avoid a lot of criticism, they could show an admittedly "Black" Nile Valley queen and they could avoid the eternal question about the skin color of the Old, Middle or New Kingdom Egyptians. And on top of that it would be an exciting story, new to much of the audience instead of the story of Cleopatra which has been filmed countless of times, and with countless of documentaries and books about her.
Shall be interesting to see if Netflix makes more documentaries in the African queens series or if the backlash makes them drop the series.
quote:WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!! what TIK TOKKERS THINK
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
A review on TikTok of the first episode of the series. The reviewer was not impressed
Review of Netflix Cleopatra 1
Review of Netflix Cleopatra 2
quote:https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/queen-cleopatra-backlash
Cleopatra’s race has long been regarded as ambiguous by scholars and historians. What we do know is that her father, Ptolemy XII, was of Macedonian-Greek descent, a member of the family that conquered Egypt more than 200 years before Cleopatra’s birth in 69 BC. Her mother’s identity, on the other hand, is unknown – although she may well have been Egyptian – which is where things get a little more complex. “Cleopatra ruled in Egypt long before the Arab settlement in North Africa,” said Dr Sally Ann Ashton, a research scientist and author of Cleopatra and Egypt, who appears in the documentary. “If the maternal side of her family were indigenous women, they would’ve been African, and this should be reflected in contemporary representations of Cleopatra.”
To be clear, the docu-drama isn’t, in fact, arguing that Cleopatra was a dark-skinned Black woman with no Macedonian-Greek heritage at all, although the media storm around it might make you assume otherwise. Rather, its creators, including scholar Shelley Haley, professor of classics and African studies at Hamilton College, have asked us to imagine her as a woman of mixed heritage, hence the casting of a biracial actress. “Her ethnicity is not the focus of Queen Cleopatra, but we did intentionally decide to depict her of mixed ethnicity to reflect theories about Cleopatra’s possible Egyptian ancestry and the multicultural nature of ancient Egypt,” a statement from Netflix reads.
quote:Why Netflix’s ‘Queen Cleopatra’ Has Egypt up in Arms
Why Netflix’s ‘Queen Cleopatra’ Has Egypt up in Arms
Western leaders and filmmakers have long denied the link between modern Egypt and its ancient heritage.
---
Most Egyptians’ objections to the show and the primary reason for frustration in Egypt is not due to racism and is not about Adele James’s being Black, per se. It is about the decision by the makers of the show to challenge historic anti-Black racism in the United States through revisionism of another racialized people’s own history without caring about how these people might react.
---
Ending the marginalization of Black and other minority actors on the screen is long overdue; and recognizing the roles of Black protagonists in history is important and much needed. But doing this at the expense of another nonwhite people victimized by Western colonialism and imperialism—and showing a lack of respect or understanding for this people’s demand to be recognized as the owners of their own history—is misguided and counterproductive. If the intention of Queen Cleopatra’s makers was to reverse decades of racism on the screen, what they ended up achieving is a perpetuation of this very racism.
quote:Link to article
Zahi Hawass answers protesters supporting Netflix’s Cleopatra
Egypt Independent, May 13, 2023
Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass said that during one of his lectures in Los Angeles he was protested by people objecting to his refusal to consider Cleopatra being black.
They carried banners with slogans against him, he said, adding that they had fallen for false information.
During a phone interview with “Hadith al-Qahira” (Cairo Talk) talk show on the “al-Qahira wal Nas” (Cairo and the People) channel, Hawass stressed “We are not against blacks, and if the same situation happened with the continent of Asia, I would object to them.”
He emphasized that Cleopatra was burgundy in color, and not dark-skinned, and this a fallacy bought into by African Americans.
“The paintings on the walls of temples confirm that the kings are not black,” he explained.
“African-Americans have entered a fallacy, they are a minority and raise these lies in order for the world to say that the Egyptian civilization is a black civilization, but our film answered them strongly.”
Hawass added that ancient Egypt’s history is strongly established and these historical lies will have no impact on it.
quote:Because it likely never happened at least nowhere near the scale as those protests of the King Tut exhibition where they displayed that reconstruction of a white king tut. And I wouldn't put it past them to try and play up this "debate" as some kind of proxy to pigeonhole all discussions of black ancient Nile Valley origins into a debate over cleopatra. Because that is something they know they have better chances winning than one on the actual ancient Nile Valley indigenous culture and people.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Seems Zahi Hawass was met by protesters in USA
quote:Link to article
Zahi Hawass answers protesters supporting Netflix’s Cleopatra
Egypt Independent, May 13, 2023
Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass said that during one of his lectures in Los Angeles he was protested by people objecting to his refusal to consider Cleopatra being black.
They carried banners with slogans against him, he said, adding that they had fallen for false information.
During a phone interview with “Hadith al-Qahira” (Cairo Talk) talk show on the “al-Qahira wal Nas” (Cairo and the People) channel, Hawass stressed “We are not against blacks, and if the same situation happened with the continent of Asia, I would object to them.”
He emphasized that Cleopatra was burgundy in color, and not dark-skinned, and this a fallacy bought into by African Americans.
“The paintings on the walls of temples confirm that the kings are not black,” he explained.
“African-Americans have entered a fallacy, they are a minority and raise these lies in order for the world to say that the Egyptian civilization is a black civilization, but our film answered them strongly.”
Hawass added that ancient Egypt’s history is strongly established and these historical lies will have no impact on it.
quote:Dr. John Henrik Clarke vs Mary Lefkowitz: The Great Debate (1996)
Legendary discussion between Dr. John Henrik Clarke, Dr. Martin Gardiner Bernal (Black Athena), Professor Mary Lefkowitz (Not Out Of Africa) and Guy MacLean Rogers (Black Athena Revisited), moderated by Utrice Leid, They debate the Origins and Foundations of Western Civilization. Does Africa, Asia or Ancient Greece supply the foundation of the world we live in today?
quote:Was Cleopatra Black? We’re asking the wrong question - The Washington Post
Was Cleopatra Black? We’re asking the wrong question.
Washington Post May 12, 2023
Experts say critics of the Netflix docudrama’s Cleopatra are anachronistically applying modern racial constructs to an ancient civilization
When it comes to Cleopatra, the enigmatic ruler whose political savvy — and romantic entanglements — have made her an endless source of fascination, Hollywood has never gotten it right.
Elizabeth Taylor’s 1963 portrayal — for which she donned a braided wig and winged eyeliner — is as iconic as it was flawed. Angelina Jolie’s potential casting in a long rumored but yet to be filmed biopic was met with backlash in 2019, as were subsequent rumors that Israeli actress Gal Gadot would take on the role. The consensus? Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile (as in Egypt, as in Africa), didn’t look like any of them.
But when Netflix introduced Adele James, who is Black and biracial, as the ancient Egyptian monarch in a trailer for the docudrama “Queen Cleopatra,” the criticism was particularly ardent. More like: Cleopatra definitely didn’t look like that.
quote:
Whenever I make an Egyptology documentary the first thing I do is ask if my friends in Egypt are happy and proud of the production, that is the most important point when discussing the history and heritage of a country
quote:Most of his videos are distortions as in the Nefertiti's daughters video I linked. And given Hawass' support for his channel I assume that means they "establishment" likes white washing ancient Nile Valley Africans. Being from Egypt doesn't mean that you are above promoting fake history and Zahi Hawass is proof of that. That doesn't make their arguments or his videos any more legitimate. The problem is the Netflix production deliberately stooped to the level of feelings and emotional sentiment and not facts, which should not be part of any kind of scholarship.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
In the end of his documentary about Cleopatra Curtis Ryan Woodside writes this:
quote:
Whenever I make an Egyptology documentary the first thing I do is ask if my friends in Egypt are happy and proud of the production, that is the most important point when discussing the history and heritage of a country
Maybe Jada Pinkett Smith should have thought of that as well. Maybe some of the controversy with the Egyptians could have been avoided.
quote:This was calculated to create a controversy
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Maybe Jada Pinkett Smith should have thought of that as well. Maybe some of the controversy with the Egyptians could have been avoided.
quote:
Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:
Director Tina Gharavi has defended the casting for the docuseries stating "Doing the research, I realized what a political act it would be to see Cleopatra portrayed by a Black actress".
quote:One could argue this is a test of "Black Power"
'Why shouldn't Cleopatra be a melanated sister?'
~ director Tina Gharavi
quote:Yes, Netflix Cleopatra has made the conflicts more visible also for a broader public.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
This has been brewing in forums and on youtube for years
quote:Zahi Hawass and the Egyptian SCA has been involved in numerous documentaries produced by western television studios all featuring outright lies and whitewashing of the ancient Nile Valley. This is the actual problem, not Netflix because Netflix is an entertainment company, while Egyptology, Zahi Hawass and the SCA are institutions in control of the history of the ancient Nile Valley. And if they are distorting and promoting fake history, it is a much bigger issue. But their outrage is nothing more than hypocrisy as they have been doing it for a long time.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:Yes, Netflix Cleopatra has made the conflicts more visible also for a broader public.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
This has been brewing in forums and on youtube for years
One can wonder what ramifications this will have for African American scholars who want to work in Egypt? And also for entertainers like Kevin Hart? Will the gates close?
quote:But the Egyptians could in some case hinder certain scholars, that they see as too Afrocentric, to work in Egypt itself, so these scholars loose access to primary material in the form of tombs, ancient buildings and other monuments. They could maybe make it harder for "Afrocentric" archaeologists to participate in digs in Egypt and so on.
Originally posted by Doug M:
And they don't need Egypt's permission to do it because Egypt does not control the history of the ancient Nile or Africa in general.
quote:After backlash to Netflix’s Black ‘Queen Cleopatra,’ Egypt plans counterprogramming
Netflix on Wednesday finally released its polarizing “African Queens” docu-series “Queen Cleopatra,” which depicts the Egyptian ruler as Black. But Egypt has already launched counterprogramming plans to tell its own version of the Pharaonic ruler’s story using “the highest levels of research and scrutiny.”
Al Wathaeqya, the Egyptian state-backed Documentary Channel, recently announced plans to produce a documentary with the government-owned broadcaster, United Media Services — an apparent response to what some Egyptian critics called “historical revisionism” in “Queen Cleopatra” by Netflix and others.
“Starting as usual in all documentary production sector and documentary channel work, there are working sessions currently being held with a number of specialists in history, archaeology, and anthropology; to subject research related to the subject of the film and its image to the highest levels of research and scrutiny,” the channel said, according to a translation of its Facebook post.
Independent filmmaker and Egyptologist Curtis Ryan Woodside also posted a 90-minute English-language documentary about Cleopatra VII on his YouTube channel Wednesday, rejecting “biased” opinions and “misinformed,” modern and American iterations of the queen. The film discusses Egypt’s multi-racial society and features commentary from Kathleen Martinez, a Dominican archaeologist “in search of Cleopatra,” and Zahi Hawass, Egypt’s former minister of state for antiquities affairs who has vehemently opposed Netflix’s portrayal of the ancient ruler.
Hawass also railed Wednesday against Netflix’s documentary series — the “African Queens” collection is produced by Jada Pinkett Smith — during an Arabic-language interview on Egypt’s MBC network. He said that when he gives lectures in the U.S., he has been confronted by Black demonstrators calling him a liar. But he said he believes they have “disorganized thinking” when it comes to ancient Egypt, which is his field of expertise.
He also reiterated in the interview that the only Egyptian rulers known to have been Black were the Kushite kings of the 25th dynasty (747-656 BC), and he pushed back against Black Americans who have claimed that the Egyptian civilization has Black origins and are “obsessed” with the colonization of Egypt throughout its history. He also hoped Netflix would also stream the documentaries about Cleopatra that he has worked on. (The Al Wathaeqya channel also recently acquired Hawass’ “Roots of Ancient Egypt,” scheduled to air in May.)
quote:This has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. All the facts and evidence are already available. It is all about promoting a Eurocentric vision of Egypt created by European explorers over 100 years ago. There are no new facts being discovered that are going to overturn what we already know. It is a situation that these people like Zahi Hawass know full dam well that the tomb of Amenhotep III depicts him as a black African, along with the tomb of his father Thutmosis IV. There is no serious debate to be had about this. He is just a liar. Period. The modern country of Egypt is relatively poor and now in debt due to the construction of a new museum and a new capital city. They need to promote tourism as a result of covid and all the debts they need to pay off. And promoting the fantasy of a white ancient Egypt is part of that strategy. And that has always been Zahi Hawass' job as he mainly appears on western television shows speaking English to Western audiences. Again, notice how he worked with Curtis Ryan Woodside to make a Cleopatra documentary, where Woodside is known for white washing the ancient Nile Valley. And at the end of the day, the SCA is just acting as custodians of a white ancient Egypt for Europeans. Because most of the funding for digs still come from Europe and most of the research done in European institutions and the discipline of Egyptology itself run by European institutions. Not to mention the SCA itself has its origins in Auguste Marriette, a French Egyptologist. Most of the money for the new museum was paid for by the Japanese government (75%).
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:But they could in some case hinder certain scholars that they see as too Afrocentric, to work in Egypt itself, so these scholars loose access to primary material in the form of tombs, ancient buildings and other monuments. They could maybe make it harder for "Afrocentric" archaeologists to participate in digs in Egypt and so on.
Originally posted by Doug M:
And they don't need Egypt's permission to do it because Egypt does not control the history of the ancient Nile or Africa in general.
But perhaps this storm is a phenomena that will pass by rather quickly, and things will soon be calm again.
quote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Mariette
In 1860 alone, Mariette set up 35 new dig sites, whilst attempting to conserve already-dug sites. His success was aided by the fact that no rivals were permitted to dig in Egypt, a fact that the British (who had previously had the majority of Egyptologists active in the country) and Germans (who were politically allied with the country's Ottoman rulers) protested at as a 'sweetheart deal' between Egypt and France. Nor were Mariette's relations with the Khedive always stable. The Khedive, like many potentates, assumed all discoveries ranked as treasure and that what went to the museum in Cairo went only at his pleasure. Even early on, in February 1859, Mariette dashed to Thebes to confiscate a boatload of antiquities from the nearby tomb of Queen Ahhotep I that were to have been sent to the Khedive.
In his position as Director of the Antiquities Service Mariette made concerted efforts to stifle the careers of Egyptians such as Ahmad Kamal within the Service. Heinrich Brugsch, a German philologist documented how Mariette was suspicious of Egyptians and forbade Egyptians from copying hieroglyphs in the Cairo Museum. Mariette was concerned, Brugsch states, that Egyptians might be appointed into official positions within the Museum and was dedicated to stopping that from occurring.
quote:https://www.whipplelib.hps.cam.ac.uk/special/exhibitions-and-displays/conflicting-chronologies/britain-egypt
This political cartoon features John Bull as a British soldier physically protecting Egypt, who is depicted as the sexualised female object of Orientalist fantasy, passively leaning into Bull’s arms. The Turkish Sultan pleads with Britain ‘to consider whether the time has not now arrived for her return to the arms of her loving uncle.’ Victorians regularly played with gendered tropes to portray Britain as a masculine and heroic saviour, Egypt as feminine and frail, and the Ottoman Empire as weak and in decline. The scene unfolding in front of the Sphinx reflects the appropriation of Egypt’s ancient past during the British occupation of the country.
quote:this is bullshit and racist
Originally posted by Doug M:
Neflix as a white company did this on purpose to promote the image of black African history on the Nile as basically feel good fiction.
Again it is a hustle. White media is playing the ultimate race hustle on black people by giving themselves agency on black representation in the media.
quote:Again, most of the facts are already available for anybody to see in books, journals online and elsewhere covering over 100 years of excavations, artifacts and study. This isn't about going to Egypt to uncover "new" proof. It isn't necessary. Again, Zahi Hawass will never ever debate the features of Amenhotep III or Thutmosis IV related to black ancient Nile Valley Africans. There is no debate. The whole hustle is all about controlled talking points that they can use to AVOID having to talk about actual facts and evidence. Egyptology as a whole is all about controlled talking points that mislead and distort the facts themselves. That is the point. And Netflix in promoting Cleopatra as a talking point is also following the same methodology. As Cleopatra the Greek has absolutely nothing to do with the Old, Middle and New Kingdom pharaohs. So how she looked is irrelevant. But this focus on her just allows them to keep their academic hustle going by not addressing the key facts that are already available for everybody to see. Afrocentrics didn't create those temples and monuments in the Nile Valley so if anything it is Egyptology arguing with the facts not so-called "Afrocentrics".
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
But if Egyptians perceive some scholars or other visitors as Afrocentric, or in other ways distorting Egyptian history they could theoretically put up hinders for these scholars to work in Egypt, which of course can be a disadvantage for those persons. Hard to make a carrier as for example an Egyptologist if you can not work in Egypt.
Egypt have the right to determine who visits the country and who works there. So theoretically they can put up some hindrances. Probably it will not happen, but they could do it.
Maybe such decisions are not based in science but in politics.
quote:Yes, some extremists still see ancient Greece and Rome as defenders of the Western civilisation against foreign peoples. The film 300 about Spartans fight against Persians at Thermopylai has been used in Nationalist propaganda in Italy and Greece and other places.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Rightly or wrongly the idea that Cleopatra was black has been a part Black culture since at least 1918.
It may not be correct but that is subversive and it undermines the idea of Greece being purely white, which it is not
In fact white supremacists hold Greece and Rome as the pinnacle of Western culture, not Egypt and they don't buy into the idea that Greek culture was stolen from the Egyptians
quote:We already see this gatekeeping being breached by Brazilian researchers in your thread in Egyptology:
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
But if Egyptians perceive some scholars or other visitors as Afrocentric, or in other ways distorting Egyptian history they could theoretically put up hinders for these scholars to work in Egypt, which of course can be a disadvantage for those persons. Hard to make a carrier as for example an Egyptologist if you can not work in Egypt.
Egypt have the right to determine who visits the country and who works there. So theoretically they can put up some hindrances. Probably it will not happen, but they could do it.
Maybe such decisions are not based in science but in politics.
quote:It's about a TV series depicting Cleopatra as a black woman
Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:This has nothing to do with Afrocentrism.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:But they could in some case hinder certain scholars that they see as too Afrocentric, to work in Egypt itself, so these scholars loose access to primary material in the form of tombs, ancient buildings and other monuments. They could maybe make it harder for "Afrocentric" archaeologists to participate in digs in Egypt and so on.
Originally posted by Doug M:
And they don't need Egypt's permission to do it because Egypt does not control the history of the ancient Nile or Africa in general.
But perhaps this storm is a phenomena that will pass by rather quickly, and things will soon be calm again.
quote:It has been a hustle since Europeans set foot in Egypt. This has always been the basis of the controversy, not so-called Afrocentrics. It goes all the way back to the 1800s and the creation of race science, partly to prove the superiority of whites using skulls from Egypt. The only difference now is that the hustle is being promoted by Egyptian mouthpieces under Zahi Hawass.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Politics have not always with facts to do. If certain ideas challenge the national image of a country´s history, and maybe even threatens its incomes there is a risk that certain politicians will try to do something about it.
quote:https://filmfreeway.com/CurtisRyanWoodside
Curtis is a young independent film-maker, Born 15 March 1995 ‘Curtis Ryan Woodside’ in South Africa, but relocated to Italy. Curtis got into filmmaking when he was only about 10 years old, him and his 2 best friends made little videos with their camera.
quote:That is the way Netflix told the story
Originally posted by the lioness,:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmei-hUQUWY
quote:No, of course not. Whether white north african nationalists like it or not AA's are the leading Africans of the WORLD, with tons of soft power. That is how the Netflix doc got made in the first place.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:Yes, Netflix Cleopatra has made the conflicts more visible also for a broader public.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
This has been brewing in forums and on youtube for years
One can wonder what ramifications this will have for African American scholars who want to work in Egypt? And also for entertainers like Kevin Hart? Will the gates close?
quote:Egypt is not low income country,so it's not poor and there are few other countries in africa that have a bigger population then egypt.
Originally posted by Doug M:
Basically modern Egypt as most populous country on the African continent is very poor.
quote:White Americans who go to Egypt will get there and in their eyes they will see a diverse country with what in their eyes is a place with a lot of "black" people and "non" white ethnics...
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Yes, I suppose bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Seems the series was not especially highly rated here in the West either.
The publicity seems to mostly have emanated from its scandal value, and the "race issue" and not because the series is better than a lot of other documentaries about Cleopatra.
Probably it will be forgotten soon, and in the mean time Egypt will still get most of it´s tourist money from White Europeans (plus Americans, Chinese, Arabs, North Africans and Israelites).
quote:You are right. It is the largest country in the Arab world but relatively poor. It is not as wealthy as European countries, but wealthier than some African countries and not as wealthy as some gulf states. And overall the standard of living in Egypt has always been ranked low among nations. This is one of the reasons for the Arab spring.
Originally posted by Firewall:
quote:Egypt is not low income country,so it's not poor and there are few other countries in africa that have a bigger population then egypt.
Originally posted by Doug M:
Basically modern Egypt as most populous country on the African continent is very poor.
quote:Netflix never actually promoted the series much is part of the problem. And the fact that Jada Pinkett Smith is associated didn't help.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Yes, I suppose bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. Seems the series was not especially highly rated here in the West either.
The publicity seems to mostly have emanated from its scandal value, and the "race issue" and not because the series is better than a lot of other documentaries about Cleopatra.
Probably it will be forgotten soon, and in the mean time Egypt will still get most of it´s tourist money from White Europeans (plus Americans, Chinese, Arabs, North Africans and Israelites).
quote:
Join the real-life Indiana Jones for an epic journey of exploration and discovery. Don’t miss out on this unforgettable evening as Dr. Hawass reveals the most closely guarded secrets of ancient Egypt and presents his groundbreaking new discoveries and latest research live on stage. As the man behind all major discoveries in Egypt over the last few decades and director of several ongoing archaeological projects, Dr. Hawass may yet surprise you with unexpected revelations that will make news across the world.
quote:Queen Cleopatra: Netflix's WOKE Disaster
Critics and audiences alike are joining hands and coming together to pan Netflix's woke Queen Cleopatra, quite possibly the worst docuseries ever made.
quote:
Egypt has a long and involved demographic history. This is partly due to the territory's geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: North Africa, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan Africa. In addition, Egypt has experienced several invasions and being part of many regional empires during its long history, including by the Canaanites, the Ancient Libyans, the Assyrians, the Kushites (a Nubian civilization), the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and the Arabs.
Neolithic and Predynastic periods
Around 8000 BCE, the Sahara had a wet phase, the Neolithic Subpluvial (Holocene Wet Phase). There is very little evidence of human occupation of the Egyptian Nile Valley during the Early and Middle Holocene periods. This may be due to problems in site preservation. The Middle Nile Valley (Nubia) had population settlements attested by occupational sequence since the Pleistocene and the Holocene.[1][2] People from the surrounding areas moved into the Sahara, and evidence suggests that the populations of the Nile Valley reduced in size.[3] Several scholars have argued that the African origins of the Egyptian civilisation derived from pastoral communities which emerged in both the Egyptian and northern Sudanese regions of the Nile Valley in the 5th millennium BCE.[4][5]
Predynastic Egypt is conventionally said to begin about 6000 BCE. Between 5300 and 3500 BCE. the wet phase declined and increasing aridity pushed the Saharan peoples into locations with reliable water, such as oases and the Nile Valley.[5] The mid-Holocene droughts drove refuges from the Southern Levant and the Eastern Sahara into Egypt, where they mixed and settled.[6]
From around 4800 to 4300 BCE, the Merimde culture, known from the typesite Merimde Beni-Salame, flourished in Lower Egypt.[7][8] Later, Lower Egypt was also the home of the Buto Maadi culture, best known from the site at Maadi near Cairo.[9] In Upper Egypt, the predynastic Badari culture was followed by the Naqada culture (Amratian).[10]
Around 3000 BCE, the wet phase of the Sahara came to an end. The Saharan populations retreated to the south towards the Sahel, and east in the direction of the Nile Valley. It was these populations, in addition to Neolithic farmers from the Near East, that likely played a role in the formation of the Egyptian state as they brought their food crops, sheep, goats, and cattle to the Nile Valley.[11]
Material culture and Archaeological data
Located in the extreme north-east corner of Africa, ancient Egyptian society was at a crossroads between the African and Near Eastern regions. Early Egyptologists noted the increased novelty and seemingly rapid change in Predynastic pottery and noted trade contacts between ancient Egypt and the Middle East.[12][13] Fekri Hassan and Edwin et al. point to mutual influence from both inner Africa as well as the Levant.[14]Similar cultural features have been observed between the early Saharan populations and dynastic Egypt such as pottery, iconography and mummification.[15][16][17]
The culture of Merimde in Lower Egypt, among others, has been linked to the Levant.[8] The pottery of the Buto Maadi culture, best known from the site at Maadi near Cairo, also shows connections with the southern Levant.[9] In Upper Egypt, the predynastic Badari culture was followed by the Naqada culture (Amratian).[10] These groups have been described to be culturally related to the Nubian and Northeastern African populations.[2] Upper Egypt is considered to have formed the pre-dominant basis for the cultural development of Pharaonic Egypt and the Proto-dynastic kings emerged from the Naqada region.[18][19]Several dynasties of southern or Upper Egyptian origin, which included the 11th, 12th, 17th, 18th and 25th dynasties, reunified and reinvigorated pharaonic Egypt after periods of fragmentation.[20]
Egyptian scholar Gamal Mokhtar argued that the inventory of hieroglyphic symbols derived from "fauna and flora used in the signs [which] are essentially African" and in "regards to writing, we have seen that a purely Nilotic, hence African origin not only is not excluded, but probably reflects the reality" although he acknowledged the geographical location of Egypt made it a receptacle for many influences.[21]
Frank Yurco in 1989 expressed the view that among foreign populations, Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians, shared the same culture in the predynastic period, and used the same pharaonic political structure.[22] Yurco wrote that: "The ancient Egyptians, like their modern descendants, were of varying complexions of color, from the light Mediterranean type (like Nefertiti), to the light brown of Middle Egypt, to the darker brown of Upper Egypt, to the darkest shade around Aswan and the First Cataract region, where even today the population shifts to Nubian."[23] Yurco noted that some Middle Kingdom rulers, particularly some pharaohs of the Twelfth Dynasty, had strong Nubian features due to the origin of the dynasty in the Aswan region of southern Egypt. He also identifies the pharaoh Seqenenre Tao of the Seventeenth Dynasty, as having Nubian features.[24] In 1996 he said that "the peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of North-East Africa are generally regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types)".[25]
quote:
Modern Egyptians
Patricia Smith, in her entry noted that "the biological characteristics of modern Egyptians show a north-south cline, reflecting their geographic location between sub-Saharan Africa and the Levant. This is expressed in DNA, blood groups, serum proteins and genetic disorders (Filon 1996; Hammer et al. 1998; Krings et al. 1999). They can also be expressed in phenotypic characteristics that can be identified in teeth and bones (Crichton 1966; Froment 1992; Keita 1996). These characteristics include head form, facial and nasal characteristics, jaw relationships, tooth size, morphology and upper/lower limb proportions. In all these features, Modern Egyptians resemble Sub-Saharan Africans (Howells 1989, Keita 1995)."[91]
Gad et al (2020) described recent studies which were conducted on modern Egyptian samples had produced predominantly European or west Eurasian haplogroups.[64]
quote:
Dental morphology
Biological anthropologist Shomarka Keita takes issue with the suggestion of Irish that Egyptians and Nubians were not primary descendants of the African epipaleolithic and Neolithic populations. Keita also criticizes him for ignoring the possibility that the dentition of the ancient Egyptians could have been caused by "in situ microevolution" driven by dietary change, rather than by racial admixture.[115]
Eric Crubezy's team showed that Predynastic cemetery in Adaima in Upper Egypt showed "Khoisan" dental markers (formally referred to as "Bushmen canine")[116] [117]
quote:Source wikipedia
In 2023, Christopher Ehret reported that the physical anthropological findings from the “major burial sites of those founding locales of ancient Egypt in the fourth millennium BCE, notably El-Badari as well as Naqada, show no demographic indebtedness to the Levant”. Ehret specified that these studies revealed cranial and dental affinities with "closest parallels" to other longtime populations in the surrounding areas of Northeastern Africa “such as Nubia and the northern Horn of Africa”. He further commented that the Naqada and Badarian populations did not migrate “from somewhere else but were descendants of the long-term inhabitants of these portions of Africa going back many millennia”.[118]
quote:Egyptian Legal Team Sues Netflix for USD 2B Over Cleopatra Documentary
Egyptian Legal Team Sues Netflix for USD 2B Over Cleopatra Documentary
Cairo Scene May 14, 2023
The team has called on UNESCO to intervene and affirm Egypt's right to an initial compensation of USD 2 billion.
A team of Egyptian lawyers and archaeologists is calling for legal action against streaming platform Netflix, demanding a monetary compensation of USD 2 billion for falsely depicting the image of Cleopatra in their recently released documentary film, ‘Queen Cleopatra’.
The team has called on UNESCO to intervene and affirm Egypt's right to an initial compensation of USD 2 billion for the alleged distortion of Egyptian heritage.
Egyptian lawyer Amr Abdelsalam, part of the case’s legal team, has filed a lawsuit before the Administrative Court of the State Council to compel the Egyptian government, represented by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to take all diplomatic measures and communicate with relevant international organizations to ban the recent documentary.
The film has triggered a debate prior to its release due to the way it changed Cleopatra’s ethnicity, which many saw as a deliberate erasure and reinterpretation of history.
quote:The question was whether the ancient dynastic people were black Africans. That is not a question of modern Egyptian identity. The two are separated by over 2000 years of history.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
^^ Is he an American? Or Egyptian?
Funny how concerned many African Americans are with a country that they do not belong to, which most of them have never visited, and which most of them do not descend from or have any ties to. And they also seem to worry much about if todays Egyptians are descended from ancient Egyptians or not. It is hard to prove if that girl descends from ancient Egyptians or not without a DNA test. He can not know her descendancy just from her looks. So to call her "Arab chick" is rather silly.
And who knows how much she can say about the iconography of ancient pictures? She has not touched on that subject very much. She has mainly said that she grew up among ancient monuments and have been visiting museums since she was a child.
Shall be interesting to see if Nora answers him. She said in one of her videos that she will consult experts so she can make a more educational video.
quote:https://www.aramcoworld.com/Articles/July-2022/New-Screens-in-Arab-Cinema
Film scholar Viola Shafik, author of three books on the history of Arab cinema, says that by the mid-1930s, Egypt had already earned international distinction as a rising film center. By the end of World War II, Egypt was producing about 50 films each year, and by the 1980s, Egypt distributed nearly 100 films per year.
Despite British colonialism, she says, “it was a relatively prosperous economy,” which allowed local entrepreneurs and artists to invest in film and create an industry that started “catering for Egypt and its neighboring countries.” The Egyptian film industry spiked in the 1980s with the introduction of the video cassette, through which it expanded its viewership into the more conservative Arabian Peninsula countries, which had few cinemas but plenty of home video players. At its peak, it was the third-largest film industry in the world, “the Arab Hollywood,” but since then, it has declined. By 2008 it was producing only about 40 films a year, and more recently it is down to 20 to 30 a year.
Film historians and enthusiasts are today also discovering anew other filmmakers of al-Siddiq’s generation whose works reflected the pan-Arab sentiments of the time, particularly al-makhduʿun (The Dupes, 1973), based on Palestinian writer Ghassan Kanafani’s seminal novel Men in the Sun. It was filmed in Syria, set in Iraq and Kuwait and directed by Egypt’s Tewfiq Saleh. In that pan-Arab vein, Siddiq’s only other feature film, Ors Zein (Wedding of Zein, 1976) is set somewhere in North Africa and based on a story by beloved Sudanese writer Tayeb Saleh.
Yet today, even with a rising generation producing more cinema than ever, the industry is driven less by such pan-Arab stories and more by localized themes that these days bring better opportunities for financing and distribution. Propelling this trend is the worldwide shift in viewing via online platforms and streaming services that have developed their own, content-hungry production houses.
quote:was it worldwide news?
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Egypt has made at least one TV series about Cleopatra, with a Syrian actress playing the title role
Cleopatra 2010
When it comes to films about older times they also made the film The Emigrant from 1994. It centers around the biblical Joseph (in the film called Ram) who comes to Egypt and becomes caught up in political and sexual intrigues.
Threads about these films
Cleopatra Egyptian - Syrian film
The Emigrant
quote:So I just pointed out that they at least made a couple of such films.
Posted by Doug M
A lot of people may not know this, but Egypt has been a big part of the Arab cinema industry going back to the 1940s with Egyptian film studios being the largest in the Arab world. Oddly (or not so oddly), they have never done any movies on Cleopatra or ancient history that I know of.
quote:Netflix’s Queen Cleopatra Is A DISASTER
The new Netflix documentary Queen Cleopatra has been one of the greatest flops in history. Executive producer Jada Pinkett-Smith is blaming white supremacy for its record-low 1% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, but could it also be that attempting to race swap and rewrite history was just a horrible idea? Let’s get into it.
quote:They have made 0 films about Cleopatra and 0 films about any period of Nile Valley history before Cleopatra. Biblical stories are not history and don't really count. So they don't really care about it all that much, as part of their historical identity. The point being that it is the West that is more concerned about Cleopatra both because of the popularity of Shakespeare and also because Greece and Rome are the foundation of Western colonial civilization. They aren't looking at Cleopatra because they care about the Ancient Nile, they are looking at her because she represents European empire and conquest, along with Rome. This is why the West has done no movies about any earlier periods of the Nile either.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
^^ Noone claimed that, I just posted those since Doug M said that
quote:So I just pointed out that they at least made a couple of such films.
Posted by Doug M
A lot of people may not know this, but Egypt has been a big part of the Arab cinema industry going back to the 1940s with Egyptian film studios being the largest in the Arab world. Oddly (or not so oddly), they have never done any movies on Cleopatra or ancient history that I know of.
And Jada Pinketts show became famous not because it was good but because it got some of the worst reviews of any TV series in recent time and because it upset many Egyptians. Not so much too boast over. But maybe it have some value to be worst too.
Here is a video by YouTuber Amala Ekpunobi about the Netflix series
quote:Netflix’s Queen Cleopatra Is A DISASTER
The new Netflix documentary Queen Cleopatra has been one of the greatest flops in history. Executive producer Jada Pinkett-Smith is blaming white supremacy for its record-low 1% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, but could it also be that attempting to race swap and rewrite history was just a horrible idea? Let’s get into it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJkVwEqXfXA
Amala Ekpunobi
quote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/05/15/netflixs-queen-cleopatra-appears-to-have-the-worst-audience-score-in-tv-history
While I had heard about the controversy surrounding Netflix’s “docudrama” Queen Cleopatra, I hadn’t been tracking it much since it was actually released a few days ago. It’s #6 in Netflix’s Top 10 list, and I don’t think I’ve seen it go all that much higher than that.
quote:Reception
African Queens is a 2023 docudrama focusing on female monarchs, airing on the streaming service Netflix. The series is produced and narrated by Jada Pinkett Smith and features dramatized fictional re-enactments as well as interviews with experts. The first season covers Njinga, Queen of Ndongo and Matamba, and is directed by Ethosheia Hylton. The second season focuses on Queen of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, Pharaoh Cleopatra, and is directed by Tina Gharavi.
Summary
The docu-series combines dramatic recreations with interviews with historians, experts, and people from the modern-day regions that the Queen ruled over. Producer Jada Pinkett Smith cited a lack of stories covering Black queens as her inspiration for helming the series.[1] She said: “We don’t often get to see or hear stories about Black queens, and that was really important for me, as well as for my daughter, and just for my community to be able to know those stories because there are tons of them.”[2]
For the first season, the life of Njinga, Queen of Ndongo and Matamba, is explored.[3] Interviewees include Kellie Carter Jackson, Wellesley College associate professor in the Department of Africana Studies; Diambi Kabatusuila, the present-day traditional Queen of the Bakwa Luntu people in Central Kasaï; and Rosa Cruz e Silva, the former director of the National Archives of Angola.[4][5]
The second season explores the reign of Cleopatra, Queen of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt.[6] Professor Shelley P. Haley was interviewed for the second season.[7]
quote:wikipedia
On the review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, 88% of 8 critics' reviews are positive, with an average rating of 7.3/10.[9] Metacritic assigned African Queens: Njinga a weighted average score of 69 out of 100, based on 5 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews".[10] Ellen E. Jones of The Guardian was critical of the first series, awarding it 2 out of 5 stars, saying that "This tale of a 17th-century African female ruler features impressive academics, but they're drowned out by poor-quality dramatic sequences. It lacks context, analysis or personality."[11] Angie Han of The Hollywood Reporter was also critical, saying that the format limited the ability to go deeply into the subject.[12] Richard Roeper of the Chicago Sun-Times, however, praised the first series and gave it three out of four stars.[13] Luke Peppa of the Financial Times cited Black Panther as a watershed for telling African stories, and that much of the stories of the continent have not been told.[14]
Queen Cleopatra
On the review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, 15% of 13 critics' reviews are positive, with an average rating of 4.3/10.[15] The audience score is 3% out of 10,000 reviews. Metacritic assigned Queen Cleopatra a weighted average score of 45 out of 100, based on 5 critics, indicating "mixed or average reviews", with an user score of 0.1 out of 337 ratings.[16] Anita Singh of The Daily Telegraph gave it just 2 out of 5 stars, saying, "It's too soapy for serious history fans, and not enough of a soap for viewers who like juicy historical dramas."[17] The Indian Express writer Rohan Naahar says the series "tells the legendary monarch's tale with all the dramatic heft of a Wikipedia article."[18] On IMDb, the show has a rating of 1/10 out of 63,000 reviews.[19]
Casting of Cleopatra controversy
Further information: Cleopatra race controversy and Ancient Egyptian race controversy
Cleopatra was played by Adele James in the second season's fictional recreation scenes. James is a British actress who is Black and of mixed ancestry; her skin color caused controversy over the depiction of Cleopatra's race.[20]
The government of Egypt responded to the casting decision negatively. Egypt's Ministry of Antiquities stated that the series represented a "falsification of Egyptian history."[2] The Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Archeology through the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities released a statement on the issue, saying that "Queen Cleopatra was light-skinned and (had) Hellenic features." They cited coins, statues, and other depictions of Cleopatra as evidence, adding "far from any ethnic racism, stressing full respect for African civilizations and for our brothers in the African continent that brings us all together."[21][22] Former antiquities minister and Egyptologist Zahi Hawass was critical of the second season. He said, "This is completely fake. Cleopatra was Greek, meaning that she was light skinned, not black," adding that "Netflix is trying to provoke confusion by spreading false and deceptive facts that the origin of the Egyptian civilisation is black."[23][24][20]
Other responses from Egypt include an Egyptian lawyer who sued to block Netflix in the country, alleging that Netflix was promoting Afrocentrism and attempting to erase Egyptian history.[25] The Egyptian channel, al-Wathaeqya, announced it was producing a documentary about the "true" life of Cleopatra in response to the "revisionism" of the Netflix series.[26][27] Several evening talk shows on Egyptian television discussed and criticized the series as well.[2]
Director Gharavi defended the casting, stating, "Doing the research, I realized what a political act it would be to see Cleopatra portrayed by a Black actress".[23] Producers of the series stated that "[Cleopatra's] ethnicity is not the focus of Queen Cleopatra, but we did intentionally decide to depict her of mixed ethnicity to reflect theories about Cleopatra’s possible Egyptian ancestry and the multicultural nature of ancient Egypt."[1] Adele James questioned the validity of the concept of "blackwashing" and expressed her disappointment with racial perceptions "that people are either so self-loathing or so threatened by Blackness that they feel the need to do that, to separate Egypt from the rest of the continent".[28][29]
quote:At least Egypt and Syria made a TV series about Cleopatra in 2010. At least it ought to have been seen by people in Egypt and Syria. A Syrian actress played the leading role. It was not a documentary though but a fictionalized tale. If it was better or worse than Jada Pinkett Smiths series I don´t know, I just know that Zahi Hawass did not like it (which he has said about other movies and series about ancient Egypt too, as for example the French animated film La Reine Soleil).
Originally posted by Doug M:
They have made 0 films about Cleopatra and 0 films about any period of Nile Valley history before Cleopatra. Biblical stories are not history and don't really count.
quote:Aida - Swedish movie from 1987
The plot largely follows the plot of the opera Aida. Aida is the daughter of the Ethiopian king, but has become a slave at the Egyptian court. No one knows her real background. The two countries are at war and the army returns with Aida's father as a prisoner of war, but no one knows his identity.
quote:
Agora (Spanish: Ágora) is a 2009 English-language Spanish historical drama film directed by Alejandro Amenábar and written by Amenábar and Mateo Gil. The biopic stars Rachel Weisz as Hypatia, a mathematician, philosopher and astronomer in late 4th-century Roman Egypt, who investigates the flaws of the geocentric Ptolemaic system and the heliocentric model that challenges it. Surrounded by religious turmoil and social unrest, Hypatia struggles to save the knowledge of classical antiquity from destruction. Max Minghella co-stars as Davus, Hypatia's father's slave, and Oscar Isaac as Hypatia's student, and later prefect of Alexandria, Orestes.
quote:Yes that one I have seen too. The leading role is played by Rachel Weisz, the star from the two first Mummy films.
Originally posted by Firewall:
There is also this one.
Agora (film)
quote:
Agora (Spanish: Ágora) is a 2009 English-language Spanish historical drama film directed by Alejandro Amenábar and written by Amenábar and Mateo Gil. The biopic stars Rachel Weisz as Hypatia, a mathematician, philosopher and astronomer in late 4th-century Roman Egypt, who investigates the flaws of the geocentric Ptolemaic system and the heliocentric model that challenges it. Surrounded by religious turmoil and social unrest, Hypatia struggles to save the knowledge of classical antiquity from destruction. Max Minghella co-stars as Davus, Hypatia's father's slave, and Oscar Isaac as Hypatia's student, and later prefect of Alexandria, Orestes.
quote:That lady showing how the ancient egyptians show themselves was misleading.She show pictures of folks living in roman egypt who live in a certain area and were the upperclass. The average egyptian did not look like those pictures plus those mummies found were 900 out of a population of more then 4 to 5 million or more.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Here is a reaction from a Greek YouTuber
quote:
Under Hellenic rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians,[10] or possibly a total of three to five million for all ethnicities, according to lower estimates.[11]
Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands.[10][12] Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri.[13]
It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians.[13] By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins.[14] Later, in the Roman Period, many veterans of the Roman army, who, initially at least, were not Egyptian but people from disparate cultural and ethnic backgrounds, settled in the area after the completion of their service, and formed social relations and intermarried with local populations.[15]
While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt,[16][17] the Faiyum portraits instead reflect the complex synthesis of the predominant Egyptian culture and that of the elite Greek minority in the city.[13]
According to Walker, the early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek.
The portraits represent both descendants of ancient Greek mercenaries, who had fought for Alexander the Great, settled in Egypt and married local women,[13] as well as native Egyptians who were the majority, many of whom had adopted Greek or Latin names, then seen as 'status symbols'.[18][19][20][21] A DNA study shows genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Egypt, indicating that foreign rule impacted Egypt's population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level.[22]
quote:Coptic Greeks
The Egyptian Greeks, also known as Egyptiotes (Greek: Αιγυπτιώτες), or simply Greeks in Egypt, are the ethnic Greek community from Egypt that has existed from the Hellenistic period until the aftermath of the Egyptian coup d'état of 1952, when most were forced to leave.
quote:wikipedia
It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians;[14] the Faiyum mummy portraits reflect the complex synthesis of the predominant Egyptian culture and that of the elite Greek minority in Faiyum.[14]
By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins,[15] and by the time of Roman emperor Caracalla in the 2nd century AD, ethnic Egyptians could be distinguished from Egyptian Greeks by their speech.[16]
Egyptian Greek is the variety of Greek spoken in Egypt from antiquity until the Islamic conquest of Egypt in the 7th century. Egyptian Greek adopted many loanwords from Coptic Egyptian; there was a great deal of intracommunity bilingualism in Egypt.[17][18]
According to Walker, early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek.[19] The dental morphology[20] of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations.[21] Victor J. Katz notes that "research in papyri dating from the early centuries of the common era demonstrates that a significant amount of intermarriage took place between the Greek and Egyptian communities".[22]
quote:Yes, and contacts goes even further back to the Minoans, which can be seen in for example the Minoan frescoes at Tell El-Dab´a
Originally posted by Firewall:
There were greeks living in egypt by the way before the greek invasion.
quote:Danny Glover
Glover sought to make a film biography of Toussaint Louverture for his directorial debut. In May 2006, the film had included cast members Wesley Snipes, Angela Bassett, Don Cheadle, Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Roger Guenveur Smith, Mos Def, Isaach de Bankolé, and Richard Bohringer. Production, estimated to cost $30 million, was planned to begin in Poland, filming from late 2006 into early 2007.
In May 2007, President of Venezuela Hugo Chávez contributed $18 million to fund the production of Toussaint for Glover, who was a prominent U.S. supporter of Chávez. The contribution annoyed some Venezuelan filmmakers, who said the money could have funded other homegrown films and that Glover's film was not even about Venezuela.
In April 2008, the Venezuelan National Assembly authorized an additional $9,840,505 for Glover's film, which is still in planning.
In 2015, Glover gave an update on the Toussaint project, stating, "The film that we always missed is a movie on the Haitian revolution and Toussaint Louverture. The company is fortuitously named after him and that was the movie that I wanted to do. We’ve developed a script. We thought we were going to get it done four years ago. We thought we were going to be making it right now. But also there are other kinds of things that intrigue me.
quote:Toussaint Louverture
Toussaint Louverture [tusɛ̃ luvɛʁtyʁ] is a 2012 French film written and directed by Philippe Niang. It stars Jimmy Jean-Louis, Aïssa Maïga and Sonia Rolland and is based on the life of Toussaint Louverture.
The film premiered at the 2012 Festival de Luchon. It won the Best Diaspora Feature award at the 8th Africa Movie Academy Awards.
quote:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15305648/
Originally posted by Firewall:
By the way the african queen series is a Docudrama,not a documentary.Folks need to read more carefully on what it is.
Documentary vs Docudrama
While documentaries primarily involve the formation of perceptual beliefs, docudramas invite us to form nonperceptual beliefs by primarily involving the formation of perceptual imaginings. That is why docudramas are not documentaries.
African Queens
Expert interviews and other documentary content with premium scripted docudrama about different queens.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15305648/
African Queens (TV series)
African Queens is a 2023 docudrama focusing on female monarchs, airing on the streaming service Netflix. The series is produced and narrated by Jada Pinkett Smith and features dramatized fictional re-enactments as well as interviews with experts. The first season covers Njinga, Queen of Ndongo and Matamba, and is directed by Ethosheia Hylton. The second season focuses on Queen of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, Pharaoh Cleopatra VII Philopator, and is directed by Tina Gharavi.
Wikipedia
quote:Because the old "Lioness" quit, this is a different person behind this "lioness" persona
Originally posted by Tazarah:
Lioness why are you no longer a mod
quote:This YouTuber (@ShezmuOperative) calls himself a Hamite. He seems to have some negative obsession with Nora (Kemet Queen). So far he has made seven videos where he, among other things, calls her a liar. He also thinks that she and most other modern Egyptians should be expelled from Egypt and Africa. On top of that he also see todays Berbers in North Africa as imposters.
Originally posted by Firewall:
Cleopatra Netflix(Ancient Egyptians)
hamiticevropa9899367
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FiSYExv0Ejs
Cleopatra Netflix (e.g. Cushitic/Ethiopid, Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan, Khoi-San)
hamiticevropa9899367
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tHhFHeKvzWA