posted
Obviously white were considered beautiful (at least concerning women) among some Jews about 2000 years ago, as one can read about in one of the scriptures from Wadi Qumran, the Genesis Apochryphon, where Sarah´s beauty is described
quote: The sentences being read in the film are from a composition entitled Genesis Apocryphon, column XX, lines 2 to 7, in which the biblical description of Sarah's beauty is expounded. According to the biblical narrative in the book of Genesis, when Abraham and Sarah approached Egypt, the patriarch said to his wife, "I know that you are a beautiful woman," (Gen. 12:11). However, as befits the reserved biblical style, the Torah does not elaborate on Sarah's beauty. Therefore, the ancient author, who wrote this scroll in the spirit of similar descriptions in the biblical Song of Songs and in Hellenistic literature, completed what was missing in the Torah and detailed the beauty of the matriarch:
1. ______
2. ... how irresistible and beautiful is the image of her face; how 3. lovely h[er] foreh[ead, and] soft the hair of her head! How graceful are her eyes, and how precious her nose; every feature
4. of her face is radiating beauty! How lovely is her breast, and how beautiful her white complexion! As for her arms, how beautiful they are! And her hands, how
5. perfect they are! How [desirable] all the appearance of her hands! How graceful are her palms, and how long and thin all the fingers of her hands! Her legs
6. are of such beauty, and her thighs so perfectly apportioned!
Her white complexion was an ideal which in the Genesis Rabbah was contrasted against the Egyptians:
quote: Sarah's external appearance in the Genesis Apocryphon reflects the authors notion of ideal beauty: Her skin is white, her fingers are long and thin, and her face is radiant. Sarahs white complexion is also alluded to in Genesis Rabbah where it is contrasted with the "ugly and swarthy" Egyptians.
Tamar Kadari, "The Beauty of Sarah in Rabbinic Literature", Hebrew Texts in Jewish, Christian and Muslim Surroundings, Volume in honour of Alberdina Houtman, eds. Eveline van Staalduine-Sulman & Klaas Spronk, Leiden-Boston: Brill 2018, pp. 65-82.
quote: [Abraham said to Sarah:] We have traversed Aram Naharaim and Aram Nahor and not found a woman as beautiful as you; now that we are entering a country whose inhabitants are swarthy and ugly, Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it may be well with me for thy sake,
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Tazarah
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Another pseudo post from archeotypery.
According to the Bible, white skin is not a good thing. Even the jew-ish scholars know this. You're either taking info out of context or referencing pseudoism.
posted
So you of course think that you know more about this subject than Tamar Kadari who wrote the article "The Beauty of Sarah in Rabbinic Literature"? It is always funny when amateurs on the net think they know more than professional scholars.
And as usual you always try to find some Black-centric angle to everything.
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Tazarah
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Arch, you're a clown. A pseudo clown.
You are referencing the genesis apocryphon. A pseudepigraphal work.
Do you even know what the word pseudepigraphal means? Trust me, it's no coincidence that the root word of pseudepigraphal is PSEUDO.
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Tazarah
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P.S., the first source I referenced is from a JEWISH WEBSITE. Are they black supremacists?.. And the Bible LITERALLY SAYS that white skin = leprosy
Then you complain about me having a "black angle" when all you do is spew debunked white eurocentric bullsh*t that can never be substantiated
Ha
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posted
Well I think Tamar Kadari has studied this subject more than both Tukuler and Tazarah, and she actually cites two sources, both the Genesis Apocryphon and the Genesis Rabbah.
One was written about 2000 years ago and the other slightly later. Just because their writings do not fit into your black-centric narrative does not make them useless as sources of certain ideals in the time they were written.
If they had written that Sarah was Black and beautiful you would not have questioned them but celebrated them instead.
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Tazarah
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Next you're going to be referencing Harry Potter and arguing that J.K. Rowling is a valid source on account of the fact that she has written multiple books.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Next you're going to be referencing Harry Potter and arguing that J.K. Rowling is a valid source on account of the fact that she has written multiple books.
Dr Tamar Kadari is a researcher who knows much more about the subject than you. Maybe you should write her a letter and complain that you do not agree to some of her claims in her article.
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* These are photos of ancient Egyptian King Tut's (Tutankhamun) royal throne chair that was found in his tomb. It depicts him and his wife.
* The Ancient History section of the BBC website confirms that this is in fact his throne.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Dr Tamar Kadari is a researcher who knows much more about the subject than you. Maybe you should write her a letter and complain that you do not agree to some of her claims in her article.
Great, so you have a "dr.'s" opinion on a non-biblical text that the vast majority of scholars do not accept as authentic.
Next
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posted
Non biblical texts are also sources when it comes to the values and ideals of their time and place.
Well, I cited two texts and if you have any complaints about the interpretations I quoted, you maybe can contact Dr Tamar Badari, who knows much more about these texts than you.
quote:Tamar Kadari is a lecturer for Midrash and Aggadah at the Schechter Institute of Jewish Studies. She received her PhD in Midrashic literature from Hebrew University and was a fellow at the Center for Advanced Judaic Studies at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2009 Dr. Kadari received a grant from the Israeli Science Foundation (ISF) to head a research group preparing a critical edition of Song of Songs Rabbah. Her research interests include biblical women in the eyes of the rabbis, aesthetics and beauty in rabbinic literature and literary readings of midrash.
Which credentials do you have? Why should anyone listen to you when there are real scholars in the field?
It just seems to annoy you that some Jews once thought that white complexion of a woman was beautiful. It obviously does not fit in to your narrative that everyone was black.
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Tazarah
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Did you miss this part? It says the genesis apocryphon is a pseudepigraphal work (not real) with embellishments on leading figures in Genesis, which would include Sarah.
* Definition of embellishment:
a detail, especially one that is not true, added to a statement or story to make it more interesting or entertaining.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Arch, you're a clown. A pseudo clown.
You are referencing the genesis apocryphon. A pseudepigraphal work.
Do you even know what the word pseudepigraphal means? Trust me, it's no coincidence that the root word of pseudepigraphal is PSEUDO.
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posted
It is a real document that tell us something about the values of those who wrote it and their time. No one knows if Sarah even existed or exactly how she looked, so of course they made an interpretation. But it still says something about the ideals of the authors and their time.
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posted
The documents are real and reflects the ideals among those who wrote it. You are just complaining because they did not say that Sarah was black. I rather listen to an expert like Tamar Badari than a dilettant with an agenda like you.
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Tazarah
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That's the thing though. The book you are referencing was not even written by Israelites. They can't even confirm who wrote it. And it has embellishments. Do you even know anything about the book you are referencing, other than the fact that it says Sarah was "white"?
You know the ACTUAL Torah/Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) says that white skin is a bad thing... right? Now all of a sudden it's beautiful in this new version of Genesis?
Ha...
NUMBERS 12:10
"10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous."
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posted
You seem to have a cognitive disorder. Even if those documents are not a part of the official Bible they still say something about the ideals of the people who wrote them, and probably others too.
You seem to not have any grip of historiagraphy or history of ideas.
I am very sure that you would have accepted them if they wrote that Sarah was black. You just can not accept that any ancient Jew saw her as white. It just shows your racist agenda.
Go to Israel yourself and see if all Jews think Black women are the most beautiful. Ask them if they find women with a white complexion ugly or leperous.
You are a black-centric radical, but you are no real Jew, you just belong to some fake fringe group.
If I want to know more about those books and about the views of beauty among Jews during different times I will not ask you, I rather ask Tamar Kadari.
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Tazarah
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What do you not understand about this, and the rest of the info I've posted? You want Sarah to be white so bad that you are abandoning all logic and reason even when it's presented to you on a platter.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: That's the thing though. The book you are referencing was not even written by Israelites. They can't even confirm who wrote it. And it has embellishments. Do you even know anything about the book you are referencing, other than the fact that it says Sarah was "white"?
You know the ACTUAL Torah/Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) says that white skin is a bad thing... right? Now all of a sudden it's beautiful in this new version of Genesis?
Ha...
NUMBERS 12:10
"10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous."
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posted
Seems you are just stupid, there were some Jews who imagined Sara as white, what is that to you? Is it so disturbing for you that some Jews had another ideal than you and your fringe group? Have you even been to Israel and talked with people there about who is beautiful or not? No wonder that Israel throw out some of these Black American so called Hebrews if they are as annoying as you.
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Tazarah
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1. The genesis apocryphon is not recognized as a legitimate work, it's pseudo... and has false details in it (embellishments)
2. There is no evidence that Jews/Israelites authored the genesis apocryphon, unless you have some information that we are not privy to... do you?
3. The actual Hebrew Bible says white skin (leprosy) is a bad thing, not "beautiful" (Numbers 12:10) which is a complete contradiction
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What is that to you? Why do you care about what those who wrote those books thought about Sarah? How do you know they were not Jews? Do all Jews think exactly like you?
You are just a stupid racist and people like you are not even liked by the real Jews.
You call yourself a Jew and has not even been in Israel.
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Maybe some Jews now and then like to think about Sarah as white. All are not race fanatics like you.
Do you think all Jews in Israel think white skin color is bad and leperous?
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Tazarah
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Can you form an intelligent response to points 1, 2 and 3 raised here?
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: 1. The genesis apocryphon is not recognized as a legitimate work, it's pseudo... and has false details in it (embellishments)
2. There is no evidence that Jews/Israelites authored the genesis apocryphon, unless you have some information that we are not privy to... do you?
3. The actual Hebrew Bible says white skin (leprosy) is a bad thing, not "beautiful" (Numbers 12:10) which is a complete contradiction
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Tazarah
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You know the prophecies in the Holy texts say true Israel won't be gathered and restored to Israel until the day of Judgement, which has not happened yet... right?
Micah 4:1-6, Joel 3:1-2
And that gentiles will rule the holy land until the messiah returns...
Luke 21:24
Lol, clearly you do not read the Bible unless you think it's talking about "white" people
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Better you leave this thread. Most Jews today are not racist fundamentalists. They can acknowledge that there are groups of Jews that have had different thoughts.
I do not care what the Bible says, some Jews had a different opinion, just like some Jews have it still today. You are fixated with race and skin color. If you behaved like that in Israel they would probably expel you.
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So you can't? Figures, you're pseudo.
And you reference texts that have been designated as pseudo, without any shame.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Can you form an intelligent response to points 1, 2 and 3 raised here?
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: 1. The genesis apocryphon is not recognized as a legitimate work, it's pseudo... and has false details in it (embellishments)
2. There is no evidence that Jews/Israelites authored the genesis apocryphon, unless you have some information that we are not privy to... do you?
3. The actual Hebrew Bible says white skin (leprosy) is a bad thing, not "beautiful" (Numbers 12:10) which is a complete contradiction
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: I do not care what the Bible says,
Doesn't care what the Bible says... but is constantly crying and complaining about what the people in the Bible looked like
As I always say, pure pseudo.
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Go to Israel and babble your crap then we will see how long they will let you stay.
All people there are not black-centric fanatics like you, or crazy fundamentalists.
They do not even see Black American so called Hebrew Israelites as real Jews.
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Tazarah
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So you can't? Figures, you're pseudo.
And you reference texts that have been designated as pseudo, without any shame.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Can you form an intelligent response to points 1, 2 and 3 raised here?
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: 1. The genesis apocryphon is not recognized as a legitimate work, it's pseudo... and has false details in it (embellishments)
2. There is no evidence that Jews/Israelites authored the genesis apocryphon, unless you have some information that we are not privy to... do you?
3. The actual Hebrew Bible says white skin (leprosy) is a bad thing, not "beautiful" (Numbers 12:10) which is a complete contradiction
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: I do not care what the Bible says,
Doesn't care what the Bible says... but is constantly crying and complaining about what the people in the Bible looked like
As I always say, pure pseudo.
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You obviously have very big problems with that not all Jews think like you, or that there is variation among Jews (as it is among Christians and Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus too).
You just want everyone to think black. Only so called "negroids" are worth anything in your eyes.
Disgusting
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Tazarah
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Your buddies over in Israel already seem to know the truth
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Do you really think that all Jews with a white complexion look themselves in the mirror every morning and say "Oh how bad and leperous I look"?
There are indeed people with different opinions in Israel some like it white, some like it black and most people do not really care. You have never even been in Israel so you do not know what people in general think there. One can always cherry pick examples of people who think one or another way. But most people actually do not care.
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Also Jews have different opinions. You just posted opinions, not any truth or scientific results. Anyone can have opinions.
There are actually no real evidence that Sarah at all existed, and if she existed there is no evidence that she was black or white. Some Jews obviously thought that she was white. And the chief Rabbi who did not like black people probably does not think of Sarah as black. But he is still a Jew. He would not be chief rabbi if he was not a Jew. He just shows that also Jews can have different views about color and race.
But in your world everyone must have the same opinion, otherwise you do not see them as Jews.
So do you see the chief rabbi as a Jew, even if he does not seem to be so fond of black people?
posted
Have you ever been to Israel and talked with ordinary people there about these things?
Have you ever met or talked with white Jews in America about these things?
Seems that in your extremely narrow mind all Jews must believe that Sarah was black, otherwise they are not real Jews. It is like saying that all Christians must believe Jesus was black, otherwise they are not real Christians.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Archeotypery doesn't believe in the Bible... but wants the people in the Bible to be white
Archeotypery doesn't believe in the Bible... but references other non-Biblical texts to explain what people in the Bible supposedly looked like
ROOOOOOFFLLLLLLLL!!!!!!
Can't make this sh*t up!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Does this make you mad? Jew-ish people (rabbis included) admitting the truth
Life is good, God is great
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Your buddies over in Israel already seem to know the truth
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Same pictures again? You do not discuss or debate, just posting same posts all over again. It shows that you have no arguments. You are just on this thread to spam, not to have any type of serious discussions about anything.
Come back and discuss when you´ve been to Israel and asked people what they think about these questions.
Tazarah, the self appointed expert on Judaism who has not even visited Israel.
posted
^^ Silly repeating of posts by Tazarah the self appointed expert on Judaism who has not even visited Israel. He lives in a black-centric fantasy believing that all ancient Jews were "negroids".
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I mean we do have people still in Israel that were related to the ancient Hebrews...i.e the Samaratins...Who are probably Jews who broke awaw and did'nt follow the 2nd Temple
Also just because its a Pseudopigrapha does'nt mean it can't be used for historical research or to draw historical conclusions.
There are Jews all over the world, pretending that one type is "authentic" is a bit ironic. Also, the bible claiming that the Jews won't be restored until a Moschiach returns is the tail wagging the dog, Black Hebrews love playing games.
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idk why Tazarah keeps discussing about this while we literally have ancient samples from different cities in the southern levant...what do you need more to assess the ethnicity of these people ?
Overall the closest people to ancient jews are modern samaritans and christian minorities from Lebanon and Palestine :
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: I mean we do have people still in Israel that were related to the ancient Hebrews...i.e the Samaratins...Who are probably Jews who broke awaw and did'nt follow the 2nd Temple
Also just because its a Pseudopigrapha does'nt mean it can't be used for historical research or to draw historical conclusions.
There are Jews all over the world, pretending that one type is "authentic" is a bit ironic. Also, the bible claiming that the Jews won't be restored until a Moschiach returns is the tail wagging the dog, Black Hebrews love playing games.
No ancient Israelite samples though, correct? Proto-semites had paternal haplogroup E... which eliminates the vast majority of the people you claim from being related to Israelites paternally.
P.S., it's funny how you guys try to discredit what the Bible says about who the people are, while trying to use other resources to prove who you think they are.
Euronuts love playing games...
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