The reason I am bringing this topic here to Egyptsearch is present the Middle Easterners that really don’t get get a lot of attention from mainstream academia in the West, especially in regards to colorized images. From what I witnessed personally, most depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners that are commonly shown a lot are Egyptian tiles, which depicts bound Asiatics captives with a pasty yellowish complexion, plus the bound Libyan (Temehu) captive, which most people in the mainstream enjoy promoting as the indigenous Amazigh, instead of being a representative of a Sea person, that adopted the ways of the Libyans (Tehenu, Meshwesh, and Temehu). Along with mind you the black skinned Nubian captive.
The three other tiles which depicts the Asiatics are identified as being a North Syrian, Shasu Bedouin, Hittite in respectable order from left to right.
While these images get a lot of press and attention from academics and those observing depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners (this goes for both Eurocentric minds and Afrocentric minds) this image, this time a tile depicting a bound Philistine captive rarely gets any attention at all.
Another thing that is rarely talked about is regarding how Ancient Middle Easterners were portrayed, for example the Egyptian mural that have been dubbed “The Races of Mankind” are very much a favorite for Eurocentrists and Afrocentrists alike. The image that we are usually showed, that is the recreation, are the depiction of four different colorized men. The Ancient Egyptians are portrayed as a reddish brown complexion, the Nubians are portrayed with a jet-black complexion, the Asiatics are depicted with an light brownish complexion, while the Libyans are portrayed as fair skinned. This is generally a tactic for Euro-centered folk to use when attempting to disprove the Ancient Egyptians race, by blindly presenting the jet-black Nubians as being the example of the Black African or “True Negro” and the Ancient Egyptians as mixed race, despite the fact that Asiatics are portrayed much lighter than the Ancient Egyptians. Another tactic Euro-centered people use is the fair skinned Libyans as being representations of the Ancient Libyans. While this is a tactic for Euro-centered people, Afro-centered folks aren’t spared for from this. For someone that is proving the race of the Ancient Egyptians they generally show off the light brown Asiatics and the reddish brown Egyptians, showing the differences in complexion of the two. Suggesting that the Egyptians were typically lighter in complexion to their Nubian (assuming representatives of South Sudan) counterparts, but it is really the Asiatics who were mixed race. While this explained, they remain quite about the fair skinned Libyans, again this is from personal experience.
The depiction of the mural that we are all shown
As both groups are generally using this recreation as evidence for their arguments, both groups, especially the Afro-centered people still don’t see the bigger picture. While this recreation get tossed around the internet, the actual mural gets ignored.
Now some might ask why your presenting the damaged mural, the recreation is exactly the same and it shows how the Ancient Egyptians portrayed themselves and foreigners. Yes, themselves and the Nubians, not the Asiatics and Libyans, however. The original mural shows a different picture showing the Libyans being entirely wiped off the wall, presumably due to damage over millennia, while the Asiatics, Egyptians, and Nubians are still seen at face value. But the Asiatics skin are bleached out. One of the Asiatics body is entirely bleached, while the other is partially bleached out.
Screenshot of one of the Asiatics not entirely bleached
As you can see, when we look at this Asiatic up close, you can see that his head is much darker than the rest of his body. This mural was the main focus of debate over proving the race of the Ancient Egyptians, by both Afrocentrists and Eurocentrists, especially regarding the Asiatics and what made them distinct. But surprisingly enough the Asiatics might have been a little much darker, despite the bleached out skin and reconstruction, hell it possible that even the Libyans were much darker than we see now, especially since the Libyans are wiped off the wall. Interesting how few people ever sees this.
Now we are all aware about the Hyksos or ”Aamu”, the Shepherd Kings that ruled Egypt. From most depictions by the Ancient Egyptians most people usually seem to see them as typically like this:
Now keep in mind there’s really nothing wrong with this portrait, as this is usually the images that put fourth, so it is typical to take at face value as being the representatives of Middle Easterners in general, right. But what people generally don’t know is that there many depictions of the Aamu being portrayed much darker and generally the same complexion as their Egyptian counterparts. From the little research I did on the Aamu they can be regarded as a people of mixed origin, given that they borrowed cultural elements from Northern folk who generally were part of the Indo-European family. Hyksos chiefs who were mentioned by the Ancient Egyptians had names that correlate with the Indo-European family. But with all cultural borrowing, although it suggests some correlation with mixed peoples it doesn’t reflect the entire population, especially depictions such as these of these of the Hyksos.
A depiction of King Tutankhamen on his wooden chest, portrayed trampling to death the Aamu, “Vile Asiatics” in a victorious battle
Amazing how both the Egyptians and the Hyksos are depicted with the exact same hue. From my understanding of this, there are only two conclusions of this, that is either both populations are racially mixed or that the Hyksos originally resembled the aboriginal stock that was present in the Levant, or at least were descendants of aboriginal population that would later mixed with another group of people to become the Hyksos, which I doubt, by evidence of this. It is my opinion that at certain time periods they intermixed with fairer Northern migrants borrowing some cultural elements, eventually becoming somewhat of a mixed crowd, becoming somewhat of a spectrum, but at the very least were more black skinned or dark skinned, the same way Northern folks such as the famous Greeks were more fair skinned than Black skinned. Basically containing their archaic features and indigenous complexion, as this image seems to be the case.
Aamu warriors getting trampled to death
So, as a dedication to the lost faces of the Ancient World that the have been purposely ignore by “Western Academia”, this thread is to show the darker side of the Middle East. Feel free to chime in, if you got some great images of Ancient Middle Easterners. I would also use portraits from areas with an historic presence of Ancient Middle Easterners, such as the Italian peninsula, in regards to the Etruscans and their mixed heritage. I would also used non-colorized depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners, generally those with a obvious aboriginal phenotype.
Disclaimer: Images would be identified entirely, if one would like to make contribution to this thread please identify the following depiction’s ethnic background. Most images of Middle Easterners would include a variety of art from different eras. Depictions will include those done by the Ancient Egyptians, Greco-Roman era depictions of Middle Easterners, and depictions done by Middle Easterners themselves.
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Baalberith
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A screenshot of a portrait depicting the Aamu “Hyksos“ and the Egyptians, from the Beni Hasan burial site, which shows the diversity of the Hyksos either through intermixing or simple just natural reflection of their arid environment, similar to complexions such as the Habashi and Khoi San who both have a honey brown complexion, or simply both have the same merit.
posted
Umm, ok. My pictures weren’t really that big and this thread is about posting pictures, so editing what I just posted is kind of pointless.
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The famous mural inside the Royal Palace, “Investiture of Zimri-Lim” depicting King Zimri-Lim receiving the symbols of rule from Mesopotamian Goddess of love, fertility, and political power, Ishtar
A relief of an Assyrian soldier marching two Hebrews into exile from the city of Lachish
A relief depicting Hebrew men being escorted by Assyrian soldiers out of the city
A relief portraying Hebrew women being sent into exile
A relief portraying four Hebrew musicians with dread locks
Since there are few images portraying the Ancient Hebrews in color, I thought it would be best to show what they look like from the most art common style out there, before I show what seems to be the only representation of the Ancient Hebrew before the current era, in the world.
(Edit) This is actually a reconstruction of a fresco of the Assyrian King, Tiglath Pileser III smiting or executing a Hebrew captive
Update 9/28/19
Here is entire or at least part of the fresco missing, I just recently found online.
Here is another colorized depiction of the Hebrews. The four Hebrew musicians above have also been surprisingly colorized
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posted
More Greco-Roman era depictions of Middle Easterners
A screenshot of part of a fresco depicting Chief Priest Conon making a sacrifice on behalf for a family, famously dubbed “The Sacrifice of Conon”, from the Duras-Europos Temple of the the Palmyrene Gods, before....
The fresco after
A fresco in Jerusalem, depicting Biblical character Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac
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Baalberith
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This is a depiction of three Chaldean soldiers with Hebrew captives, from a Byzantine illuminated manuscript called the Bristol Psalter, circa 11th century
A screenshot of Joseph being sold into slavery to the Ishamaelites, by his brothers
Two Ziphites before Biblical character King Saul, from manuscript
A depiction of David getting captured by the Philistines in the town of Gath
Another depiction of King David in some sort of pose
David being crowned King of Israel
A depiction of King David with a group of musicians
Another depiction of King David kneeling to the Prophet Nathan, as he delivers a message to him
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Fragment of a mural depicting a Arab King of the Kingdom of Kindah
A portrait of two Kindite Arabs
A Byzantine depiction of Ummayyads leader Maslama ibn Abdal- Malik with his Arabian warriors
A Medieval European portrait from a Church in Estonia, depicting shipwrecked Saracens “Arabs” encountering Slavonic Christians, then converting to Christianity after being saved by the Archangel Michael
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quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: While these images get a lot of press and attention from academics and those observing depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners(this goes for both Eurocentric minds and Afrocentric minds) this image, this time a tile depicting a bound Philistine captive rarely gets any attention at all.
Literally all of these images have been shown and addressed on Egyptsearch.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Baalberith
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quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: While these images get a lot of press and attention from academics and those observing depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners(this goes for both Eurocentric minds and Afrocentric minds) this image, this time a tile depicting a bound Philistine captive rarely gets any attention at all.
Literally all of these images have been shown and addressed on Egyptsearch.
Ish Gebor, this thread is supposed to be about presenting depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners, if you have something you like to share post it right here.
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quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: While these images get a lot of press and attention from academics and those observing depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners(this goes for both Eurocentric minds and Afrocentric minds) this image, this time a tile depicting a bound Philistine captive rarely gets any attention at all.
Literally all of these images have been shown and addressed on Egyptsearch.
Ish Gebor, this thread is supposed to be about presenting depictions of Ancient Middle Easterners, if you have something you like to share post it right here.
quote:“Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population.
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins...”
--Khaled K Abu-Amero et al., (2008) Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote:“Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.”
--Viktor Černý1 et al., (2009)
Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
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Baalberith
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A colorless relief of Syrian, Nubian, and Libyan Princes paying tribute to King Tutankhamen
A colorless relief of Sea Peoples, mostly of Levantine and Libyan origin being marched by the Egyptians
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Baalberith
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posted
Could you explain to me why you doubt hese Achaemenid Soldiers are ethnically Elamites then, since you brought it up?
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posted
Hmm, alright then, but I doubt the Archers represents the Persians because historically the Persians were always referred to as Whites and not as Blacks.
The Roman Sextus Empiricus describes Ethiopians and Persians standard of beauty: ''The Ethiopian preferring the blackest and most snub-nosed, and the Persian approving the whitest and most hook-nosed.”
Al Jahiz contrasts the population of Whites and Blacks: The blacks are more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous
Furthermore, I only got this assumption that the Achaemenid Archers were ethnically Elamites from my book, “The African Presence In Asia” and I am still of this assumption because the Elamites are the likely candidates for Archer’s identity along with the fact that they are aboriginals of Southern Iran, so this makes since to me.
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Alexander the Great, Alexander Mosaic, Roman 100 BC depicting Darius III (c. 380 – July 330 BC)
Alexander Mosaic, Roman 100 BC depicting Darius III (c. 380 – July 330 BC)
______________________________________________
Persian Art 6th century B.C.
ARCHERPerepolis .
The Palace of Darius in Susa
Darius of Persia, Behistun
Persepolis
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: [QB] Hmm, alright then, but I doubt the Archers represents the Persians because historically the Persians were always referred to as Whites and not as Blacks.
Al Jahiz contrasts the population of Whites and Blacks: The blacks are more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous
Note this:
1)Al Jahiz , born 776 A.D.
2) The Palace of Darius in Susa The construction was conducted parallel to that of Persepolis. 522-486 BC
** Over a thousand years difference, these Achaemenid sites
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith:
The Roman Sextus Empiricus describes Ethiopians and Persians standard of beauty: ''The Ethiopian preferring the blackest and most snub-nosed, and the Persian approving the whitest and most hook-nosed.”
Sextus, born 160 A.D.
The Palace of Darius in Susa 522-486 BC
**682 years difference
Look at the Roman Mural at top called the "Alexander Mosiac" depicting made in 100 BC Details of Alexander Depicting Darius III (c. 380 – July 330 BC)
Some might consider LL Cool J to be black others not dark enough to be black. Nevertheless he's lighter skinned than many (although his skin tone can very according to how much sun exposure he's getting at a particular time) So we have Alexander and Darius both depicted with brown skin and it's in a degree of darkness in the realm of LL Cool J. Darius perhaps slightly darker than Alexander here Some might say "black" is skin color only,that brown skinned East Indians are black people and that Darius in this mural is black. Others might disagree.
Then we look at this older Persia art created by the Achaemenid Empire of Persia
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith:
The Roman Sextus Empiricus describes Ethiopians and Persians standard of beauty: ''The Ethiopian preferring the blackest and most snub-nosed, and the Persian approving the whitest and most hook-nosed.”
What we see with this Achaemenid at Persepolis and Susa is a combinations of features. They almost all "hook nosed" or closer to it than "snub nosed" as your Sextus Empiricus quote describes. If not "hooked" look at how thin and straght that painted archer's nose is above The hair is depicted as big curls and those big curls appear to collect at the bottom and they are weighing down the hair and also some of the head gear is pulling down the hair so at the top of the head we see these wavy-straight areas of the hair.
So it it appears to be large semi-loose curls not as tight as some "kinky" haired Africans by other Africans regarded as black might have this hair. But other people might have this type of hair not regarded as black.
So the bottom line is this, virtually all of the figures at Persepolis and Susa, this Achaemenid art show people with thin noses that stick out, are not flat. They all have pencil thin lips. None of this is painted except those Archers and that Sphinx
They have dark brown skin. If "black" means "any person with brown skin" then they are black. If there is more to it perhaps they aren't black.
It seems odd to think that these particular figures are brown skinned but the figures with the exact same features and hair would not also have brown skin.
So one could make an assumption that the Persians all had brown skin at the time on average darker than LL Cool J and if this is the case there would be no reason to believe that those figures are Elamites.
So if one assumes the Persians had brown or dark brown skin at the time of the Achaemenids, whether they be "black people" or not according to how someone wishes to define that term, perhaps by the time of Sextus Empiricus around 700 year later they admixed with lighter skinned people
So maybe, when using the term "white" as per the Persians that would only apply to the post Achaemenid Persians
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posted
Lioness, I don't doubt the possibility of indigenous Iranian groups, such as the Elamites, wouldn't amalgamate with the newcomers from the Steppes, in fact that wasn't my argument. I already know that most people have their own definitions for what is "Black", what is "White", etc. You say this is an issue of phenotype, I am well aware of this. Personally I see this as a moot debate because when it comes to distinct features being differentiated among populations, there are always a contradiction. That contradiction being the in-betweenness of some populations.
A Hadhrami Arab man, note that his features are typically considered in the Western World as “Caucasian”, but also note that some of man’s carry features often considered “Negro”. Thick lips, elongated head, wide nostrils, wavy or curly hair, and of coarse dark skin. Obviously this isn’t one-sided as some may think, but that depends on how one may address this topic.
Despite this, I still maintain that the Persians were a predominantly “White” or fair skinned people just as they are now, given that their ancestry traces back to the Steppes, a region that are still plummeting with fair skinned peoples.
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A mural of Royal Dignitaries or Princes of Keftiu (Crete), Hatti (Anatolia), and Tunip (Northern Syria), giving tribute to an Egyptian Ruler, from the Tomb of Menkheperreseneb
Restoration of three remaining Aegean figures paying homage to an Egyptian Ruler, from the Tomb of Senenmut
Four foreign tributaries from Syria and the Aegean, from the Tomb of Puimre
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A depiction of a bound Asiatic and Nubian on a sandal
Fragments of ceramic female heads, from the Ancient Phoenician town of Porphyreon, Lebanon
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A fresco of dark complexioned Boxers, from a Lucan tomb, Basilicata, Italy
A Roman fresco depicting Priests making an ancestral sacrifice at an alter, from house altar/lararium, House of Julius Polybius, Pompeii
A Roman fresco depicting a Genius making a sacrifice at an altar while two Lares stand on either side, from the same city
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Fragments of papyrus depicting a battle between the Sea Peoples, Libyans, and the Egyptians
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quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: Lioness, I don't doubt the possibility of indigenous Iranian groups, such as the Elamites, wouldn't amalgamate with the newcomers from the Steppes, in fact that wasn't my argument. I already know that most people have their own definitions for what is "Black", what is "White", etc. You say this is an issue of phenotype, I am well aware of this. Personally I see this as a moot debate because when it comes to distinct features being differentiated among populations, there are always a contradiction. That contradiction being the in-betweenness of some populations.
A Hadhrami Arab man, note that his features are typically considered in the Western World as “Caucasian”, but also note that some of man’s carry features often considered “Negro”. Thick lips, elongated head, wide nostrils, wavy or curly hair, and of coarse dark skin. Obviously this isn’t one-sided as some may think, but that depends on how one may address this topic.
Despite this, I still maintain that the Persians were a predominantly “White” or fair skinned people just as they are now, given that their ancestry traces back to the Steppes, a region that are still plummeting with fair skinned peoples.
The guy in the picture is from Egypt, if I am correct. I think I met him at some store nearby the Valley of Kings. His facial traits are no different from many Horners.
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