Mena: According to this article Europeans became white because they drink milk for thousand of years. East Africans cattle people have been drinking milk for 10,000 years they are still black. Probably isolated selective breeding of black and brown skin Eurasians turned them white over time.
Why Do Europeans Have White Skin?
April 6, 2015 | by Stephen Luntz
Photo credit: Alliance via Shutterstock. Both the genes for white skin and lactose tolerance spread through Europe more recently than previously suggested
Share on facebook
20K
Share on twitter
237
Share on reddit
Share on google_plusone_share
More Sharing Services
For most of the time humans have lived in Europe, the inhabitants have had quite dark skin, a genetic study has concluded. The genes for light skin that came to dominate the continent were a relatively recent arrival. Like the capacity to digest milk as an adult, pale skin was sufficiently advantageous at high latitudes that it spread rapidly through the population.
While it is basic to natural selection that advantageous mutations spread, it is not always a quick process. Most new genetic variations confer only a limited advantage, and their progress through the community can be slow. This makes the traits that spread rapidly particularly interesting since such success demonstrates the advantage must be very large.
The 1000 Genomes Project is searching for such examples by comparing the genomes of modern individuals from specific regions in Europe with 83 samples taken from seven ancient European cultures. Harvard University's Dr. Iain Mathieson has identified five features whose spread through the population of Europe indicates a strong selection advantage.
At the annual conference of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, Mathieson said his team distinguished, “between traits that have changed consistently with population turnovers, traits that have changed apparently neutrally, and traits that have changed dramatically due to recent natural selection.”
Five traits were identified that fit into the last category. Previous studies have identified one of these: the capacity to digest lactose in adulthood. Although this is far from universal today, most people of European descent are lactose tolerant, to the extent that milk products not only form a major source of nutrition but are a defining feature of European cultures.
Yet 8,000 years ago, Europeans lacked this ability, a fact that advocates of “Paleo” diets prefer to ignore when marketing to a very white audience. Mathieson expanded on the previous work by showing that the capacity to digest lactose as an adult appeared in the population after the development of farming. Two waves of farmers settled Europe 7,800 and 4,800 years ago, but it was only 500 years later that the gene for lactose tolerance became widespread.
Unsurprisingly, the first modern humans to leave Africa were black. Moreover, Mathieson found that more than 30,000 years later hunter-gatherers in what is now Spain, Luxumberg and Hungary had dark-skinned versions of the two genes more strongly associated with skin color. The oldest pale versions of the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes that Mathieson found were at Motala in southern Sweden 7,700 years ago. The gene associated with blue eyes and blond hair was found in bodies from the same site.
The light SLC24A5 gene swept through southern and eastern Europe with farmers who arrived from the east, but the pale SLC45A2 only became common around 5,800 years ago.
Mathieson and colleagues expressed their surprise at not finding strong selection for immunity to transmissible diseases with the spread of agriculture, but did identify patterns in height, with shortness favored among the first farmers on the Iberian Peninsula, while genes associated with tallness taking over 5,000 years ago
The corollary to the above proofs and exhibits, is that the White mans division of the worlds people into the three Human races (Black, White and Mongol) is false and self-serving. When a group member of a species with a great variety of physical attributes - such as Black Humans - who exhibit ALL Human attributes: Black skin, White skin (Albinos), Broad noses, Narrow noses, Full lips, Thin lips, Wooly hair, Straight hair, Hair of all colors, Hair of all textures, Very tall people, Very short people, People with Mongol features - breaks away, and forms a "Supergroup" of ONLY those with a "Single" particular distinct attribute, and through some type of isolation - forced or otherwise, breed exclusively among themselves, thus producing offspring with only that one attribute. They create a Sub-species containing ONLY that attribute!
So when isolate members of a species ALL share a common trait, such as (White Skin - Albinism). They do not form a "New" Race, they form a SUB-SPECIES. Thus Whites are NOT a RACE, they are a SUB-SPECIES!
So when isolate members of a species ALL share a common trait, such as (Mongol features). They form a SUB-SPECIES. Thus Mongol is NOT a RACE, it is a SUB-SPECIES!
So when isolate members of a species ALL share a common trait, such as (extreme small stature - Pygmy) . They form a SUB-SPECIES. Thus the Pygmy is NOT a RACE, it is a SUB-SPECIES!
Therefore, there is only ONE RACE - the "All Encompassing" Black skinned Human race: all others are Sub-species.
Mena: According to this article Europeans became white because they drink milk for thousand of years.
That is a 100% wrong interpretation of what the article says
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: now the new angle they re trying is the "milk" angle ...... silly.
...selectiv breeding ??? interesting ...for what purpose ??
at least mena reads articles and posts them
This is something you don't do Your lazy ass just sits around and makes uniformed predictable comments
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lionness I should have say by using the picture of a white woman drinking milk the writer want to associate white skin with drinking milk. I read the beginning of the article and I saw my mistake. I was going to change my comment but you posted your commemt already.
quote:Originally posted by mena7: Lionness I should have say by using the picture of a white woman drinking milk the writer want to associate white skin with drinking milk. I read the beginning of the article and I saw my mistake. I was going to change my comment but you posted your commemt already.
I don't think one factor played part in it, it was multiple da tower causing this to happen. One of them was climate change.
Europeans from 6 Kya weren't lactose resistant. In fact most people around the globe still aren't lactose resistant, including Europeans. Although the article states the opposite. (See so in my following post)
quote: Osteoporosis-related bone fracture incidence in the elderly (adjusted for age) is highest in countries where calcium intakes are highest (eg Scandinavia, Switzerland, The Netherlands, USA, UK).
quote: At the annual conference of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, Mathieson said his team distinguished, “between traits that have changed consistently with population turnovers, traits that have changed apparently neutrally, and traits that have changed dramatically due to recent natural selection.”
Five traits were identified that fit into the last category. Previous studies have identified one of these: the capacity to digest lactose in adulthood. Although this is far from universal today, most people of European descent are lactose tolerant, to the extent that milk products not only form a major source of nutrition but are a defining feature of European cultures.
Yet 8,000 years ago, Europeans lacked this ability, a fact that advocates of “Paleo” diets prefer to ignore when marketing to a very white audience. Mathieson expanded on the previous work by showing that the capacity to digest lactose as an adult appeared in the population after the development of farming. Two waves of farmers settled Europe 7,800 and 4,800 years ago, but it was only 500 years later that the gene for lactose tolerance became widespread.
Original source:
quote: First, the scientists confirmed an earlier report that the hunter-gatherers in Europe could not digest the sugars in milk 8000 years ago, according to a poster. They also noted an interesting twist: The first farmers also couldn’t digest milk. The farmers who came from the Near East about 7800 years ago and the Yamnaya pastoralists who came from the steppes 4800 years ago lacked the version of the LCT gene that allows adults to digest sugars in milk. It wasn’t until about 4300 years ago that lactose tolerance swept through Europe.
In the US and many other countries, we've certainly "got milk," but not everyone can enjoy it. For around 10% of Americans, 10% of Africa's Tutsi tribe, 50% of Spanish and French people, and 99% of Chinese, a tall cold glass of milk means an upset stomach and other unpleasant digestive side effects.
In fact, most adults in the world are lactose intolerant and cannot digest lactose, the primary sugar in milk.
And yet, regardless of our ancestry, most of us began our lives happily drinking milk from a bottle or breast — so what happened in the intervening time? Why do so many babies enjoy lactose and so many adults avoid it? Lactose is broken down by a protein called lactase, which acts as a pair of molecular scissors, snipping the lactose molecule in two. Anyone who drank milk as a baby carries a working version of the gene that codes for lactase. In lactose tolerant individuals, that gene keeps working into adulthood, producing the protein that digests lactose and makes eating ice cream a pleasant experience. But in people who are lactose intolerant, that lactase gene is switched off after weaning. Now, new research reveals that the Stone Age ancestors of European dairy-lovers probably couldn't digest milk either. So how did they get from bellyaches to milk mustaches? The answer is an evolutionary story that takes us from the milkmaids of the Alps to the Maasai herdsmen of Africa.
Where's the evolution?
Mutations that keep the lactase gene permanently switched on are common among modern Europeans — but not among their ancestors. In March 2007, a team of German and British researchers announced that they went looking for that mutation in the 7000-year-old fossils of ancient Europeans and came up empty-handed.
The researchers managed to extract the length of DNA corresponding to the lactose tolerance mutation from eight Neolithic human fossils and one Mesolithic fossil, but those DNA sequences did not carry the telltale mutation. The results suggest that as late as 5000 BC most ancient Europeans could not have digested milk as adults — and that they only later evolved into milk-drinking societies.
quote: Lactase persistence is a genetic trait enabling life-long digestion of the milk sugar lactose. The ability to rely on ruminant secondary products, such as milk, likely conveyed selective advantage during times of resource scarcity, and genetic lactase persistence has independently evolved at least five times in European, Middle Eastern, and African populations. Previous ancient DNA studies have established that genetic lactase persistence was low or absent in most European Neolithic populations. In this study, we show that the frequency of lactase persistence in medieval Germany (72%) is similar to that found today in Germany and Austria (71–80%), suggesting that the incomplete selective sweep of the lactase persistence allele may have reached the present allele frequency in western Central Europe by AD 1200. Although many aspects of the origin and early evolutionary history of the T-13910 LP allele remain uncertain, ancient DNA research has made great strides in narrowing the period of European LP selection to an approximately 4,000 year window spanning 3000 BC to AD 1200. Future ancient studies on this period are likely to reveal the specific evolutionary forces acting on the T-13910 allele and the relationship between dairying and LP genotypes.
--Annina Krüttli
Ancient DNA Analysis Reveals High Frequency of European Lactase Persistence Allele (T-13910) in Medieval Central Europe
Published: January 23, 2014DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0086251
posted
The article is misleading. Carrying the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes does not make you pale skin and blue eyes. The early Europeans at least up to 1500 BC, were Blacks.
The article implies that whites were in Europe 6000 years ago. This is false. The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
The article implies that whites were in Europe 6000 years ago. This is false. The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
.
I don't see where they claimed that Europeans were white when these people spread throughout Europe.
After your short essay, I understand the controversy surrounding the Oriental Institute. I'll post this anyway.
The Oriental Institute, The University of Chicago
quote: The Origins of Civilization
Chronology of the “Neolithic Revolution”:
The Neolithic revolution took place in several stages. First, people settled down in permanent communities (“sedentism”), and afterwards they developed food production.
Paleolithic – before 10,000 BCE – nomadic hunter-gathers of the Pleistocene (Ice Age) Epipaleolithic – Natufian Culture ca. 10,000-8300 BCE – sedentary hunter-gatherers Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA) – 8300-7500 BCE – domestication of wheat, barley Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) – 7500-6000 BCE – domesticated sheep, goats, cattle, pigs
Once people had developed a village farming system based on both domesticated plants and animals, the Neolithic economy spread across the Middle East.
The Environmental Context of the Neolithic “Revolution”
During the Pleistocene, climatic conditions in the Middle East were much colder and drier than they are today. However, at the beginning of the Holocene, the Middle Eastern climate became warmer and wetter, so that by 9000 BCE, conditions were actually milder and better than today.
Forests of oak and pistachio spread widely along the eastern Mediterranean coast, while further inland, the grassland steppes filled with gazelles, deer, wild cattle, wild goats, and onagers (wild donkeys). The coastal zone was the richest environment, supporting abundant game and wild cereals, such as wheat and barley.
The Epipaleolithic Period and the Natufian Culture of the Levant (10,000–8300 BCE)
The newly abundant plant resources and wild game in the Mediterranean coastal zone attracted hunter-gatherer groups to the region. In some areas, the stands of wild wheat and barley were so large and rich that the hunter-gatherers were able to give up their nomadic way of life and establish small permanent base camps in these “optimal zones”. Archaeologists refer to these groups as the Natufian Culture (ca. 10,000-8,300 BCE). The round pit-houses in Natufian settlements at Jericho and Abu Hureyra are some of the world’s earliest known villages. In contrast to the earlier mobile hunter-gatherers of the Ice Age, the Natufians were sedentary hunter-gatherers who focused their diet very intensively on collecting wild wheat and barley, and on the hunting of gazelles and deer. Because the Natufians were becoming increasingly dependent wild cereals, they developed new technologies to harvest grain – flint sickles set into wood or bone handles, and storage pits to insure that their wild harvest would last throughout the year. With a reliable supply of wild cereals and abundant game, the populations of these newly sedentary villages began to grow, increasing the pressure on their resource base.
Environmental Stresses and the Beginnings of Domestication:
By about 9000 BCE, the optimal climatic conditions of the Early Holocene underwent a climatic fluctuation called the “Younger Dryas” characterized by cooler and drier conditions in the Levant. These changes would have decreased the yields of the wild wheat and barley resources that the Natufians relied on so heavily for their food supply. When the Natufians started to settle in villages, the population grew and the range of their food resources narrowed. As a result, the environmental stresses of the Younger Dryas meant that the Natufians would have had more mouths to feed than ever before and less food to feed them.
The Natufians seem to have reacted to these resource stresses in two different ways. In the more marginal steppe-grassland regions of the Levant, people gave up sedentism and returned to a more mobile hunter-gatherer lifestyle. In better watered areas closer to the Mediterranean, or in oases (such as Jericho) the Natufians chose to remain sedentary, dealing with the resource stress by intensifying their care of wild plant resources through watering, selective breeding, and saving the most desirable seeds from one year to the next. These actions selected for larger, more reliable, more nutritious plants that were also easier to harvest and process, leading to the emergence of cereal domestication. With the emergence of plant domestication, we pass from the “Epipaleolithic” period and the Natufian culture into the Early Neolithic period.
The Aceramic (“Pre-Pottery”) Neolithic Cultures of the Middle East
Archaeologists usually divide the Early Neolithic of the Levant into two stages:
1. Pre-Pottery Neolithic A or PPNA phase (ca. 8300-7500 BCE), when plants were domesticated, and
2. Pre-Pottery Neolithic B or PPNB phase (ca. 7500-6000 BCE), when domesticated animals came into widespread use alongside the already-domesticated crops.
Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA): ca. 8300-7500 BCE During the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA) period, the first domesticates were plants: cereals and legumes such as wheat, barley, chickpeas, lentils, and peas; at sites such as Tell Aswad, archaeologists have recovered domesticated wheat and barley that have been radiocarbon dated to about 8300 BCE. Domesticated plants were just one part of a mix of food resources that still relied heavily on wild plants and the hunting of wild animals. Relatively few PPNA sites are known; some of our best information about this period comes from Jericho, an oasis in the Jordan River valley.
Jericho has a smooth transition from the earlier Natufian occupation into the PPNA. PPNA Jericho was 4 hectares in size (1 hectare = 100x100 meters) with an estimated population of about 200 people living in round/oval houses constructed of mud brick. The settlement was surrounded by a ditch and a wall, and had a 9-meter tall stone tower – the earliest known building of this kind. The inhabitants of Jericho used flint tools, but also engaged in long-distance trade to acquire obsidian (natural volcanic glass) from sources over 1000 km to the north in the mountains of Anatolia (Turkey).
Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB): ca. 7500-6000 BCE The two most important developments of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) period are a) the domestication of animals, and b) the spread of food-producing communities in large numbers across the Middle East.
The main animals domesticated in the PPNB period were sheep, goats, cattle, and pigs. The earliest solid evidence for animal domestication comes from western Iran, at sites such as Ali Kosh. The idea of animal domestication probably spread westward from Iran into the Levant, where it was adopted by PPNB communities. The PPNB villages had a very well balanced and diversified economy that combined farming of domesticated crops with gathering wild plants, herding domesticated animals, and some hunting. Most PPNB villages also had domesticated emmer wheat and barley, along with legumes such as peas, chickpeas, and lentils. PPNB villages had rectangular, multi-roomed mudbrick houses with plastered floors. PPNB houses were larger than the earlier PPNA oval houses, and sometimes had two stories – suggesting that family size had increased as well.
The PPNB provides our best evidence for the development of new religious beliefs across the Levant. At Jericho and other sites, archaeologists found plastered skulls buried in pits beneath the house floors. After the bodies had decomposed, the skulls were removed, plastered, and were molded with noses, ears, and shells for eyes. The skulls were then reburied, and periodically removed for use in religious rituals. PPNB communities also used life-sized carved limestone masks with human faces and large painted clay sculptures in their rites. The plastered skulls, sculptures, and masks may reflect the existence of an "ancestor cult" connected with the development of agriculture. Agriculturalists often have a high sense of territoriality, since the land they farm is their single most important resource. They justify their access to and control over this land through an ancestor cult. Practices such as burial beneath house floors, saving the skulls of one’s ancestors, and “consulting” with the ancestors in rituals - all emphasize that the land has belonged to its owners and their family "since time began."
PPNB communities shared similar styles of artifacts, and maintained connections of trade and ritual practices over a broad area. They continued to use the earlier PPNA trade networks to obtain obsidian from Anatolia, and shell from the Red Sea coast. PPNB settlements were larger and much more numerous than the earlier PPNA communities. The relatively rapid spread of PPNB villages suggests that the combination of domesticated plants and animals gave farmers a very productive and reliable food supply that was diversified enough to withstand all but the worst environmental stresses.
Neolithic Foundations for the Rise of Urban civilization
The emergence and spread of food production by 6000 BCE across the Middle East established the social and economic foundations for the emergence of urban civilization. Farming and herding produced enough surplus food to support craft specialists, priests, and political leaders. The production of large-scale food surpluses also led to the emergence of economic inequalities as some farmers became wealthier than others and were able to pass their wealth along to their children. By 5500 BCE, we can see clear evidence for the emergence of towns – large settlements surrounded by satellite villages under their control. These towns served as both temple centers for religion, and as political centers for newly emerging chiefly leaders. By 3800 BCE, these temple towns in Mesopotamia had accumulated enough wealth, power, and population that we can rightly identify them as the world’s first cities.
The early Europeans at least up to 1500 BC, were Blacks.
The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
- - -
Storytelling maestro.
Kushites were Yueh Hsi around the 'Eu-Xine/Black Sea coasts, is that part of your "Proto-Sahara"?
Their skin color was probably transitional, as were early Europeans; the south shore people(eg. Colchis) darker than the north shore people(eDeN), but not extremely so, none of them as dark-skinned as the people of the peripheral Congo rainforest such as Nubians and Bantus.
Kushites may have gone to the Nile after the Deluge 7.7ka, during-after the Black Sea diaspora.
The article implies that whites were in Europe 6000 years ago. This is false. The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
.
I don't see where they claimed that Europeans were white when these people spread throughout Europe.
We also found evidence of selection at two loci that affect skin pigmentation. The derived alleles of rs1426654 at SLC24A5 and rs16891982 at SLC45A2 are, respectively, fixed and almost fixed in presentday Europeans23,24. As previously reported7,11,12, both derived alleles are absent or very rare in western hunter-gatherers. suggesting that mainland European hunter-gatherers may have had dark skin pigmentation. SLC45A2 first appears in our data at low frequency in the Early Neolithic, and increases steadily in frequency until the present, when it has frequency 1 in all populations except Spanish (IBS,Figure 2; estimated selection coefficient � =0.020, CI=0.011-0.031). In contrast, the derived allele of SLC24A5 increases rapidly in frequency to around 0.9 in the Early Neolithic, suggesting that most of the increase in frequency of this allele is due to its high frequency in the early farmers who migrated to Europe from the southeast at this time, although there is still strong evidence of ongoing selection after the arrival of farming (p=5.5× 10-7 , � =0.025, CI=0.003-0.21).
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The early Europeans at least up to 1500 BC, were Blacks.
The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
- - -
Storytelling maestro.
Kushites were Yueh Hsi around the 'Eu-Xine/Black Sea coasts, is that part of your "Proto-Sahara"?
Their skin color was probably transitional, as were early Europeans; the south shore people(eg. Colchis) darker than the north shore people(eDeN), but not extremely so, none of them as dark-skinned as the people of the peripheral Congo rainforest such as Nubians and Bantus.
Kushites may have gone to the Nile after the Deluge 7.7ka, during-after the Black Sea diaspora.
The Kushites came from Africa. Yueh was the Chinese name for the Dravidian speaking people . Many of them were dark as the Congo people.
Why are you spreading this misinformation. The Chinese Hua tribes called the Yueh people li min "Black People" because of their dark color.
posted
CW: "The Kushites came from Africa. Yueh was the Chinese name for the Dravidian speaking people . Many of them were dark as the Congo people. Why are you spreading this misinformation. The Chinese Hua tribes called the Yueh people li min "Black People" because of their dark color."
All people came from Africa, as far as I know.
Kushites = 'Ue Xine (= Euxine = Xila(Chinese: Greece) lived around the Black Sea. Horites = Tauri lived on Crimea and were source of hierarchical priesthood in various societies after the deluge. Torii(Japanese) temple gate, Torah(Hebrew) temple doorway, Tuur/Muur(old Dutch) door/wall, related to ododem(Ojibwe)/totemblem = grand/swollen ancestor lineage = grand entrance = house 'gods'/guards
Yueh: one of a group of south China people formerly occupying the coastal provinces from Chekiang southward, having affinities with the early Yao and early Vietnamese, and founding an empire reaching its greatest height at Canton in Kwangtung Province (Merrian Webster) - - -
How many of these people speak Dravidian? None.
Guangdong, abbreviated 粵 Yuč, a province of China Yue Nan (Chinese: 越南) or Vietnam Zhejiang, informally abbreviated 越 Yuč, a province of China
Language Yue Chinese, a branch of Chinese, spoken primarily in and around Guangdong Cantonese, a dialect of Yue Chinese, spoken in Guangzhou, Hong Kong and Macau
Groups Baiyue, a collection of ancient peoples in coastal southern China. Shanyue, a tribe resided in the Yue area during Han Dynasty - - -
Yuezhi, Wade-Giles romanization Yüeh-chih, also called Indo-Scyth, ancient people who ruled in Bactria and India from about 128 bce to about 450 ce.
THIS is the key : Mod. yuč,[14] could have been pronounced in an archaic northwestern dialect as *tokwar or *togwar, a form that resembles the Bactrian name Toχοαρ (Toχwar ~ Tuχwar) and the medieval form Toχar ~ Toχâr.[15][16] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi Note similarity to Taur(i) of Crimea, written as Horim in Hebrew and Horite in old bibles. The Tochari were either the Crimean Tauri or likely related to them.
I do not claim any particular skin color for them, but suggest they were "transitional" from gray-pygmy tone, apricot-KhoeSan/Egyptian tone and black-Bantu/Nubian tone being lightened over time due to relaxed selection for darkness of skin tone due to camouflage and UV/IR differences.
- - -
The Hmong are a Hua tribe, these words mean black:
train, resin, black resin used as cement cob black bear dais nees black dub black dub nciab very black dub nciab very black, perfectly black dub txig black dub txig black pepper, peppers fwj txob black heart siab dub txig dark tsaus dark tsaws ntuj night time sijhawm hmo ntuj house tsev frame, pillar of house, pole, post ncej in, down, inside hauv cave qhov tsua only one, pile up tib
I don't see "li min" there.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
| IP: Logged |
The article implies that whites were in Europe 6000 years ago. This is false. The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
.
Who would have known everyone spreading thru Europe contemporaneous at the time where Kushites! Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: CW: "The Kushites came from Africa. Yueh was the Chinese name for the Dravidian speaking people . Many of them were dark as the Congo people. Why are you spreading this misinformation. The Chinese Hua tribes called the Yueh people li min "Black People" because of their dark color."
All people came from Africa, as far as I know.
Kushites = 'Ue Xine (= Euxine = Xila(Chinese: Greece) lived around the Black Sea. Horites = Tauri lived on Crimea and were source of hierarchical priesthood in various societies after the deluge. Torii(Japanese) temple gate, Torah(Hebrew) temple doorway, Tuur/Muur(old Dutch) door/wall, related to ododem(Ojibwe)/totemblem = grand/swollen ancestor lineage = grand entrance = house 'gods'/guards
Yueh: one of a group of south China people formerly occupying the coastal provinces from Chekiang southward, having affinities with the early Yao and early Vietnamese, and founding an empire reaching its greatest height at Canton in Kwangtung Province (Merrian Webster) - - -
How many of these people speak Dravidian? None.
Guangdong, abbreviated 粵 Yuč, a province of China Yue Nan (Chinese: 越南) or Vietnam Zhejiang, informally abbreviated 越 Yuč, a province of China
Language Yue Chinese, a branch of Chinese, spoken primarily in and around Guangdong Cantonese, a dialect of Yue Chinese, spoken in Guangzhou, Hong Kong and Macau
Groups Baiyue, a collection of ancient peoples in coastal southern China. Shanyue, a tribe resided in the Yue area during Han Dynasty - - -
Yuezhi, Wade-Giles romanization Yüeh-chih, also called Indo-Scyth, ancient people who ruled in Bactria and India from about 128 bce to about 450 ce.
THIS is the key : Mod. yuč,[14] could have been pronounced in an archaic northwestern dialect as *tokwar or *togwar, a form that resembles the Bactrian name Toχοαρ (Toχwar ~ Tuχwar) and the medieval form Toχar ~ Toχâr.[15][16] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi Note similarity to Taur(i) of Crimea, written as Horim in Hebrew and Horite in old bibles. The Tochari were either the Crimean Tauri or likely related to them.
I do not claim any particular skin color for them, but suggest they were "transitional" from gray-pygmy tone, apricot-KhoeSan/Egyptian tone and black-Bantu/Nubian tone being lightened over time due to relaxed selection for darkness of skin tone due to camouflage and UV/IR differences.
- - -
The Hmong are a Hua tribe, these words mean black:
train, resin, black resin used as cement cob black bear dais nees black dub black dub nciab very black dub nciab very black, perfectly black dub txig black dub txig black pepper, peppers fwj txob black heart siab dub txig dark tsaus dark tsaws ntuj night time sijhawm hmo ntuj house tsev frame, pillar of house, pole, post ncej in, down, inside hauv cave qhov tsua only one, pile up tib
I don't see "li min" there.
LOL. We are not talking about the modern Yueh. We are talking about the historic group which were identified as Negroes and Dravidians.
You are getting the Kushana=Yueh tribe mixed up with the Hsiung Nu=Huns.
Stop lying?The Vietnamese and Hmong are not Han or Hua, they came from Southeast Asia and pushed most the Dravidian and Mande speaking Yueh tribes out of South China.These people belong to the Dai Viet tribes. The following video explains the origin of the Vietnamese. See:
posted
Kushites did live in the area but they were not whites or Asians as you alledge.
Kushites expanded into Inner Asia from two primary points of dispersal : Iran and Anatolia. In Anatolia the Kushites were called Hattians and Kaska. In the 2nd millennium BC, the north and east of Anatolia was inhabited by non-I-E speakers.
Anatolia was divided into two lands “the land of Kanis” and the “land of Hatti”. The Hatti were related to the Kaska people who lived in the Pontic mountains.
Hattians lived in Anatolia. They worshipped Kasku and Kusuh. They were especially prominent in the Pontic mountains. Their sister nation in the Halys Basin were the Kaska tribes. The Kaska and Hattians share the same names for gods, along with personal and place-names . The Kaska had a strong empire which was never defeated by the Hittites.
Singer (1981) has suggested that the Kaska, are remnants of the indigenous Hattian population which was forced northward by the Hittites. But at least as late as 1800 BC, Anatolia was basically settled by Hattians.
Anatolia was occupied by many Kushite groups,including the Kashkas and or Hatti. The Hatti , like the Dravidian speaking people were probably related
Some of the Tehenu or Kushites settled Anatolia. Some of the major Anatolian Kushite tribes were the Kaska and Hatti speakers who spoke non-IE languages called Khattili. The gods of the Hattic people were Kasku andKusuh (< Kush).
The Hattic people, may be related to the[b] Hatiu, one of the Delta Tehenu tribes. Many archaeologist believe that the Tehenu people were related to the C-Group people. The Hattic language is closely related to African and Dravidian languages for example:
up,upper….. tufa ………..tp……………… dya, tu 'raising ground'
to stretch put… pd ………pe,……………….. bamba
o prosper …….falfat …..-- …………………..find'ya
pour ……………duq …….---………………….. du 'to dispense'
child …………..pin………,pinu………………… den
Mother ………..na-a ………--…………………….. na
lord …………….sa ………..--………………………. sa
place ………….-ka………… -ka
The languages have similar syntax Hattic le fil 'his house'; Mande a falu 'his father's house'. This suggest that the first Anatolians were Kushites, a view supported by the Hattic name for themselves: Kashka.
•Hurrians
An important group in Anantolia in addition to the Hatti, were the Hurrians. The Hurrians enter Mesopotamia from the northeastern hilly area . They introduced horse-drawn war chariots to Mesopotamia .
Hurrians penetrate Mesopotamia and Syria-Palestine between 1700-1500 BC. The major Hurrian Kingdom was Mitanni , which was founded by Sudarna I (c.1550), was established at Washukanni on the Khabur River . The Hurrian capital was Urkesh, one of its earliest kings was called Tupkish.
Linguistic and historical evidence support the view that Dravidians influenced Mittanni and Lycia . (Winters 1989a) Alain Anselin is sure that Dravidian speaking peoples once inhabited the Aegean . For example Anselin (1982, pp.111-114) has discussed many Dravidian place names found in the Aegean Sea area.
Two major groups in ancient Anatolia were the Hurrians and Lycians. Although the Hurrians are considered to be Indo-European speakers, some Hurrians probably spoke a Dravidian language.
The Hurrians lived in Mittanni. Mittanni was situated on the great bend of the Upper Euphrates river. Hurrian was spoken in eastern Anatolia and North Syria .
Most of what we know about Hurrian comes from the Tel al-Armarna letters. These letters were written to the Egyptian pharaoh. These letters are important because they were written in a language different from diplomatic Babylonian.
The letters written in the unknown language were numbered 22 and 25. In 1909 Bork, in Mitteilungen der Vorderasiatische Gesellschaft, wrote a translation of the letters.
In 1930, G.W. Brown proposed that the words in letters 22 and 25 were Dravidian especially Tamil. Brown (1930), has shown that the vowels and consonants of Hurrian and Dravidian are analogous. In support of this theory Brown (1930) noted the following similarities between Dravidian and Hurrian: 1) presence of a fullness of forms employed by both languages; 2) presence of active and passive verbal forms are not distinguished; 3) presence of verbal forms that are formed by particles; 4) presence of true relative pronouns is not found in these languages; 5) both languages employ negative verbal forms; 6) identical use of -m, as nominative; 7) similar pronouns; and 8) similar ending formations:
Dravidian Hurrian
a a
-kku -ikka
imbu impu
There are analogous Dravidian and Hurrian terms:
English Hurrian Dravidian
mountain paba parampu
lady,woman aallay ali
King Sarr,zarr Ca, cira
god en en
give tan tara
to rule irn ire
father attai attan
wife,woman asti atti
Many researchers have noted the presence of many Indo-Aryan words. In Hurrians. This has led some researchers to conclude that Indo –Europeans may have ruled the Hurrians. This results from the fact that the names of the Hurrian gods are similar to the Aryan gods:
Hurrian Sanskrit
Mi-it-va Mitra
Aru-na Varuna
In-da-ra Indra
Na-sa-at-tiya Nasatya
There are other Hurrian and Sanskrit terms that appear to show a relationship:
English Hurrian Sanskrit Tamil
One aika eka okka ‘together’
Three tera tri
Five panza panca ańcu
Seven satta sapta
Nine na nava onpatu
Other Hurrian terms relate to Indo-Aryan:
English Hurrian I-A Tamil
Brown babru babhru pukar
Grey parita palita paraitu ‘old’
Reddish pinkara pingala puuval
English Mitanni Vedic Tamil
Warrior marya marya makan, maravan
References:
Itamar Singer, Hittites and Hattians in Anatolia at the beginning of the Second Millennium B.C., Journal of Indo-European Studies, 9 (1-2) (1981), pp.119-149.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Define "Proto-Saharan". That has no inherent meaning within human history. Proto-Pygmy is understandable (LCA/Last Common Ancestor before the Pygmy & KhoeSan & other tribes split geographically/linguistically), Proto-Saharan is not, unless you mean the Shahara of Dhofar mtn. Oman who share some traits with the Tuareg perhaps earlier from Darfur mtn. of Sudan.
In Hmong, black is dub, in Thai, black is dumdum, a word also used in southern India. I think it derives from people living in round huts / *"endumo", as opposed to square bungalos, but uncertain.
One thing I agree with, the term Dravidian has the sound "dr" which is door/enter/Tor/Taur/Endura(Bambuti: entry-interior of dome or forest) which is probably linked to Anatolia, since in Aztec toloa means enter with bowed head.
CW" We are not talking about the modern Yueh. DD of course not.
CW"We are talking about the historic group which were identified as Negroes and Dravidians. DD Only by you?
CW"You are getting the Kushana=Yueh tribe mixed up with the Hsiung Nu=Huns. DD No, Yueh Zhi were Hunnic-Parthian, Hsiung Nu were Turko-Mongols.
CW"The Vietnamese and Hmong are not Han or Hua, they came from Southeast Asia and pushed most the Dravidian and Mande speaking Yueh tribes out of South China. These people belong to the Dai Viet tribes. The following video explains the origin of the Vietnamese. DD I said nothing about Vietnamese. Hmong are hill tribes of East and SouthEast Asia, called Hua. Please show which Hua language you mean.
CW"Kushites did live in the area but they were not whites or Asians as you alledge DD I did not allege that. Read again.
Hurrian is PIE, so of course linked to Sanskrit.
CW" Some of the Tehenu or Kushites settled Anatolia. The Hattic people, may be related to the Hatiu, one of the [B]Delta Tehenu tribes . Many archaeologist believe that the Tehenu people were related to the C-Group people. [I presume you mean pre-dynastic C group in Egypt. If so, I would preliminarily agree.]
Who were Tehenu? Where is this term from? I'd say Tehenu = Tauri = Tochari = Kushite, but uncertain.
Tekenu (Egyptian) threshing sled, with basalt blades beneath. also to Trance port
Dr. Winters, please read :
According to my research, sleds developed in the Black Sea region to move items over ice. This included ice blocks, which were sawn with sod cutters (same as Eskimos cut snow blocks for igloos) both for access to fishing/sealing in winter and also to pile ice into pyramids (covered with sod etc.) for summer use (food stores) and trade (pulled sledges covered with sheep pelt & sedge/reed insulation), which LATER gave rise to Egypt's pyramids of square-cut naturally-layered limestone blocks, and which Taurus Mtns provided ice blocks floated down Tigris/(Q)'Euphrates in covered coracles (Qufa/Gopherwood) to hot cities on the Mesopotamian plains. The earlier Ubaidian farmers of Proto-Sumeria did not have this ice/pelt trade. The Sumerians brought this trade, and also square wooden shields, and rectilinear houses (also in Harappa(layers of clay brick) and Catal Huyok(oldest layers of timber, later of clay brick) because in Crimea construction was limited to timber/ice sawing rather than mud/reed/wicker huts (no reeds in deep water). DD'eDeN
- - -
The rest of what you wrote is too recent for my interest, so I'm not critical of it, right of wrong.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
The MO of these freaks is to avoid, deny, or grandstand any objective questioning or critique of their "work" and then claim they whipped their challengers.
posted
Thanks Ardo for the links. I can't speak on the Maghreb early history; Tamazigt sounds like Te-Amazigt where Te = to(Aztec) = ti/she(Chinese) = Xy = sky/sunshine/skin, while in Japanese Ama refers to sun goddess, perhaps linked to Shamash (Akkadian) Sun god and Shamash (Hebrew) candle-lighter, all derive from Pygmy apa/amba fire.
I've read claims that both the Sumerians (not the preceding Ubaidians) and the later "blonde" Alans came from the northern area between Black Sea and Caspian Sea, but I haven't researched the claims further.
Dr. Winters research is sometimes helpful to me, I just need to keep my story-detector on... - - - CW: " The Dravidian Languages Did Originate in Africa
I am not the first to claim links between Africans and Indians, the evidence for this relationship was first gathered and discussed by Indians themselves.
The ancient inhabitants of the Indus Valley were the Dravidian speakers. Today Brahui, Malto and Kurukh are Dravidian languages spoken in the Indus area.
B.B. Lal (1963) and Indian Egyptologist has shown conclusively that the Dravidians originated in the Saharan area 5000 years ago. He claims they came from Kush, in the Fertile African Crescent and were related to the C-Group people who founded the Kerma dynasty in the 3rd millennium B.C. (Lal 1963) The Dravidians used a common black-and-red pottery, which spread from Nubia, through modern Ethiopia, Arabia, Iran into India as a result of the Proto-Saharan dispersal.
The Nubian Dravidians were one of the cattle herding groups that made up the C-Group culture of Nubia Kush. Thundy has observed that: "If Kashi the holy place (alias Varanasi) is a Dravidian word, the name was bestowed on the place by the Dravidians after their homeland of Nubia, Upper Egypt, which is called Kush and Kashi in the Semitic languages".
He added that: "...I view the common myth[of Isis and Osiris in Egypt and Kannaki and Kovalan in India] only as supporting the widely held theory that the Dravidians of India came from the Mediterranean region, particularly from Nubia, for ethnically and linguistically, the peoples of the two regions are strikingly similar".
The ancient Indo-Aryan writings make it clear that the Indians were dark-skinned (varna) and had flat noses. (Durant 1935, p.396) This fact is supported by the Ali Tiraavitar (Old Dravidians) who are black as their African brothers with a difference in hair texture. In ancient Tamil poems they are described as mamai (black). In addition, the ancient Dravidians practiced a matriarchal system in Kerala and South Kanara.
Aravaanan (1980) has written extensively on the African and Dravidian relations. He has illustrated that the Africans and Dravidian share many physical similarities including the dolichocephalic indexes (Aravaanan 1980,pp.62-263), platyrrhine nasal index (Aravaanan 1980,pp.25-27), stature (31-32) and blood type (Aravaanan 1980,34-35). Aravaanan (1980,p.40) also presented much evidence for analogous African and Dravidian cultural features including the chipping of incisor teeth and the use of the lost wax process to make bronze works of arts (Aravaanan 1980,p.41).
The Dravidians have maintained their ancient African Heritage. There are numerous affinities between Dravidian and Black African culture and languages.
As in Africa the Dravidians built their both small and large vessels from a single log or planks tied together. This method of boat construction has been common in Africa since the rise of ancient Egypt, and continues today in East Africa, Chad and along the Niger river.
In both Africa and Dravidic India the people were organized into various "caste" or corporations. Many of the corporations such as that of the blacksmiths in Africa and India have corresponding names e.g., Wolof Kamara and Telugu Kamara. "
"“Chwana” language or “Bantu” as follows
Cbwana Tamil English n kn aatu lamb
ii - nku aatukaL lambs
ma - nku pala aatukal many lamps
The classification of singular and plural are not to be seen in some of the African languages. But the material is considered as a compound entity and a single unit is deemed a constituent part of it. In certain language the suffixes indicating plurality have a meaning of their own. Example:
Ewe Tamil English
wo avarkaL They
ati maram Tree
ati wo marang~kaL Trees
Gender: In Hottentot languages besides the masculine and feminine genders common gender is also seen. Some of the languages indicate gender in plural condition also while others abandon it.
In some languages, the suffixes denoting the gender have the meaning of male, female, mother, father, men and women etc.
Kanda Tamil English
Se - gwanga ceval cock
na - gwanga petal hen
Verbs: In some languages verbs do not undergo any transformation, while others like Tamil, exhibit grammatical structureslike tense and numerals. Thematic variations effected by various words in Tamil are effected by a single suffix in Wolof.
Wolof Tamil Engilsh
Jeka un eat
lakati ciritu un eat a little
In Tamil there are words which have no meaning of their own which accentuate the characteristics of verbs. Similar phenomena are seen in African languages.
Example: Zo ka ka walk up right
Zo dze dze An assayed and energetic gait.
In Zande language such words are found. But in “Bongo” language a triplet occurs.
Example: Lan mokonya wakka wakka wakka. (The cloth is very black)"
"Bushman Languages: These languages are classified into three groups. Called Northern, Central, and Southern languages, there are the divisions of singular and plural.
In certain languages plurality is revealed by the use of different verbs and in some languages, by the doubling of the singular verbs, which is in tune with Tamil.
mum - stone. mum-si - stones.
The possessive pronouns, occur, before nouns in northern and southern languages in accordance with Tamil, but in the central languages they occur after the noun. In certain languages separate syllables are used to indicate possessiveness. Example:
mha - my father mtail - my mother Certain languages know, no distinction of tense, mood or voice.
Saharan Languages - Kanuri: In many of the languages existing now, even though the nouns occur by the side of adjectives only nouns accept ‘case’ prepositions. In Tamil also this is the case. But in Kanuri language the nouns do not accept case prepositions but adjectives accept case prepositions.
In this language the commanding verbs, occur both in second person plural and singular which is in concordance with Tamil
But a speciality is that this language shows commanding nature even in first person plural.
Eastern Sudanic Languages: These languages are spoken by more than nine lakhs of people who live in the southern part of Sudan.
In alignment with Tamil, ‘Dinka’ also has the division of singular and plural. By the modification of the vowels, by the modification of ending and by the tuse of various words plural is shown,
Examples yic - ear yit ears moe man ror men
Lwo Languages: Shilluk: The distinction between singular and plural is noted like in Tamil. This distinction is produced by: affixes, and by the modification of verbs. There is no distinction of genders in this language. Adjective often follows nouns. Though most of adjectives show the distinction between singular and plural without undergoing any change some undergo change with reference to the noun which show the distinction of singular and plural.
Example: Won duong Big house Woti dono Big houses.
The article implies that whites were in Europe 6000 years ago. This is false. The people spreading through Europe 5,800 years ago were Black people, namely Kushites from the Proto-Sahara.
.
I don't see where they claimed that Europeans were white when these people spread throughout Europe.
We also found evidence of selection at two loci that affect skin pigmentation. The derived alleles of rs1426654 at SLC24A5 and rs16891982 at SLC45A2 are, respectively, fixed and almost fixed in presentday Europeans23,24. As previously reported7,11,12, both derived alleles are absent or very rare in western hunter-gatherers. suggesting that mainland European hunter-gatherers may have had dark skin pigmentation. SLC45A2 first appears in our data at low frequency in the Early Neolithic, and increases steadily in frequency until the present, when it has frequency 1 in all populations except Spanish (IBS,Figure 2; estimated selection coefficient � =0.020, CI=0.011-0.031). In contrast, the derived allele of SLC24A5 increases rapidly in frequency to around 0.9 in the Early Neolithic, suggesting that most of the increase in frequency of this allele is due to its high frequency in the early farmers who migrated to Europe from the southeast at this time, although there is still strong evidence of ongoing selection after the arrival of farming (p=5.5× 10-7 , � =0.025, CI=0.003-0.21).
This statement implies the farmers were white.
.
Thanks, I overlooked that part.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic