posted 10 March, 2015 08:23 AM
Dr Winters may find this interesting-
Bottom-line. These slaves were not typical Bantus. So what haven’t they told us?
============== Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean - Hannes Schroedera,b,1,2, María C – FEB2015
of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered in the Zoutsteeg area of Philipsburg on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin (Materials and Methods). Previous reports (6) suggest that the “Zoutsteeg Three,” as they became known locally, were likely born in Africa as opposed to the New World. But they did not reveal where in Africa they originated. Bayesian analysis of individual calibrated radiocarbon dates suggests that the burials date between A.D. 1660 and
Divergence time of the STM1 Y-chromosome lineage
Upon merging STM1 data with related modern Y-chromosome sequences, we estimated a splittime of roughly 8500 years between the STM1 lineage and the CLOSEST FULLY SEQUENCED Y CHROMOSOMES currently in the literature, a cluster of eleven R1b1c3-V35 sequences reported in a sample of 1204 Sardinians (42). To do so, we estimated the length of time between the STM1- lineage divergence and the emergence of R1b, and then we compared this interval to the age of R1b (Fig. S17).
Francalacci et al. (42) report a cluster of 29 R1b1c-V88 lineages from Sardinia. Though the terminal branch lengths from this study must be viewed with caution due the low-pass sequencing approach, the internal branches had high effective coverage due to the superposition of multiple sequences. …….). Consequently, approximately 103.1 (30 + 51 + 22.1) SNPs accumulated between the emergence of R1b and the time when the STM1 lineage diverged from R1b1c3-V35. Because this study was based on 8.97 Mb of sequence, whereas that of Underhill et al. (37) analyzed 10.35 Mb, we must scale the mutation period by a factor of 1.154. Thus, we estimate that this interval corresponds to 14.5 ky (103.1 SNPs ・ 1.154 ・ 122 years/SNP). Consequently, we conclude that it was approximately 8.5 kya that the Y-chromosome lineage carried by STM1 diverged from that carried by the 11 Sardinians.
====
As I said. Europeans are a sub-set of Africans. Want more proof? Stay tuned to come. I am leaning towards R-M269 emerging if not IN Africa then one of the major Islands off Africa. Sardinia-Corsica. But the paragroup of R-M269 is the only branch found IN Africa and the Levant. This enigma needs to be resolved. Maybe the Sahara desert?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 10 March, 2015 08:27 AM
@Dr Winters or anyone interested. The genetic profile of these “slaves” are more “Eurasian” than Niger-Congo or Bantus. See Fig1
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 10 March, 2015 09:37 AM
What stands out from this new study. This is the first for "African" slaves IN the Caribbean. Slaves supposedly born In Africa and transplanted to the Caribbean. And to our suprise their genetic profile is atypical of "Bantus". They are more "Eurasian" and they lineage is more closely related to Sardinians. It is NOT on the African branch of R-V88!!!!
Their entire genome was mapped. Maybe someone who can play around with BAM files can download and give us more information on phenotype. DNATribes where are you?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 10 March, 2015 09:43 AM
The Neolithic package left Africa about 8,000ya. ANE >60,000ya. WHG maybe 20,000ya. Keep in mind WHG is NOT found in Middle East populations!!!! Meaning they entered Europe NOT Through the Levant. Tic! Toc!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: How long ago did Basal Eurasians leave Africa?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 10 March, 2015 09:46 AM
For those who haven't connected the dots as yet. This first in perfectly with Lazaridis et al and why Asians have more "Neanderthal" ancestry than Europeans.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 10 March, 2015 02:39 PM
Perhaps a link: Black Caesar in 17th cent.?
Black “European “slaves – in the 17th’s Caribbean Island?
Xyyman "Dr Winters may find this interesting-
Bottom-line. These slaves were not typical Bantus. So what haven’t they told us? " ==============
Genome-wide ancestry of 17th-century enslaved Africans from the Caribbean - Hannes Schroedera,b,1,2, María C – FEB2015
of three enslaved Africans whose remains were recovered in the Zoutsteeg area of Philipsburg on the Caribbean island of Saint Martin (Materials and Methods). Previous reports (6) suggest that the “Zoutsteeg Three,” as they became known locally, were likely born in Africa as opposed to the New World. But they did not reveal where in Africa they originated" - - -
I recall reading that some Canary Island natives were enslaved, some to Cuba.
"Black Caesar, according to traditional accounts, was a prominent African tribal war chieftain. Widely known for his "huge size, immense strength, and keen intelligence", he evaded capture from many different slave traders. Caesar was finally captured when he and twenty of his warriors were lured onto a ship by a slave trader. Showing him a watch, the trader promised to show him and his warriors more objects which were "too heavy and too numerous to bring on shore" if they came aboard his ship. ...
During the early 18th century, Caesar left Biscayne Bay to join Blackbeard in raiding American shipping in the Mid-Atlantic serving as a lieutenant on his flagship Queen Anne's Revenge." - - -
I'm at Miami Beach, Florida, couple miles away from Ceasar's Rock and Elliot Key & Adam's Key. Funny thing is I got a buddy named Elliot Adams, (black guy), he flew over the islands in a friend's plane, but they almost crashed. Maybe the place is haunted?
posted 10 March, 2015 11:39 PM
Commenter on Dienekes said;
quote: Gioiello said... Is the link between Italian R-V88 and African R-V88 demonstrated? One of these persons belong to hg. R-V88 and very likely his place of origin was nearby Chad Lake where this hg. is most diffused also to-day. By a comparison with the R-V88 samples examined from Francalacci et al. it seems that this sample has some SNPs in common with the R-V88/M35 found so far only in Sardinia. Even though the SNPs M35 hasn't been tested, this could be a proof that the African R-V88 came from Italy (even though the paper speaks of a probable origin from Middle East as all think so far except me) could be demonstrated. The age of separation of this African line from the Sardinian one is 8500 years ago.
posted 11 March, 2015 07:40 AM
Did you read? - Francalacci P et al. (2013) Low-pass DNA sequencing of 1200 Sardinians reconstructs European Ychromosome phylogeny
They are speculating that nRY HG-A (A1b1b2b)has clades specific to Sardinia. In addition the ancient African line E1a!!! Do you or anyone understand the significance?????
In the Schroeder et al (Caribbean Slaves)y, do you understand the chart Fig S15? Do you see the timeline for R1b1c-V88 compared to R1b1c-V88* and R1b1c-V35 and R1b1a-M269-S116-Z2105? Do you know ALL the R1b clade found IN Africa is upstream and that puts migration late Paleolithic and NOT part of the Neolithic package.
Quote: The first bifurcation separates the mostly sub-Saharan haplogroup A (7 individuals, 0.6% in our sample) from the others. Haplogroup E (132, 11.0%) is present with its European clade, characterized by the presence of the M35 marker, together with a small number of individuals belonging to the mainly African clade E1a. The rare haplogroup F (7, 0.6%) is related to haplogroup G (131, 10.9%), which shows a private Sardinian-Corsican clade whose ancient roots have been found in an Eneolithic sample from the Italian Alps (9)
Africans have always owned “Europe”. Europeans are a sub-set of Africans.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted 11 March, 2015 08:33 AM
In continuation of the above,
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Commenter on Dienekes said;
quote: Gioiello said... Is the link between Italian R-V88 and African R-V88 demonstrated? One of these persons belong to hg. R-V88 and very likely his place of origin was nearby Chad Lake where this hg. is most diffused also to-day. By a comparison with the R-V88 samples examined from Francalacci et al. it seems that this sample has some SNPs in common with the R-V88/M35 found so far only in Sardinia. Even though the SNPs M35 hasn't been tested, this could be a proof that the African R-V88 came from Italy (even though the paper speaks of a probable origin from Middle East as all think so far except me) could be demonstrated. The age of separation of this African line from the Sardinian one is 8500 years ago.
Here is the answer, to solve ALL riddles.
quote:
Table S1. Haplogroup Affiliation of the Seven Chromosomes that Were Re-sequenced
The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (1a A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites).
[...]
How does the present MSY tree compare with the backbone of the recently published “reference” MSY phylogeny?13 The phylogenetic relationships we observed among chromosomes belonging to haplogroups B, C, and R are reminiscent of those reported in the tree by Karafet et al.13 These chromosomes belong to a clade (haplogroup BT) in which chromosomes C and R share a common ancestor (Figure 2).
[...]
It is worth noting that this clade was previously detected in west Africa, although at low frequencies.10,30–32 Three chromosomes from the Bakola pygmy group from southern Cameroon (central Africa) were found to carry the derived allele at V164, V166, V196, and P114 and were classified as A1b. Interestingly, one chromosome from an Algerian Berber group (north- west Africa) was found to carry the derived allele at V164, V166, and V196 but carried the ancestral one at P114, implying a bipartite structure for A1b, where P114 defines an internal node.
Three features of our data are of particular interest. First, the branching order at the deepest points of the tree is different from that previously recognized. The root of the tree now falls between A1b and A1a-T, and the number of deep branchings leading to African-specific clades has doubled (Figure 2), providing further strong support for the MSY-based evidence of a modern human origin in the African continent.
Second, the MSY tree is deeper than previously believed. The present figure of about 140 KY for the inferred most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the MSY phylogeny is older than previous estimates (about 100 KY or below)33–35 and easier to reconcile with plausible scenarios of modern human origin.36 Clearly, calculation of the precise age of the tree largely depends on the accuracy of the assumed mutation rate. In any case, an antiquity of the root greater than that previously estimated is evident from the present tree structure. It is worth noting that A1b, long neglected in previous large-scale resequencing studies of the MSY, contributes to the older TMRCA and high nucleotide diversity values that we observe, highlighting the importance of targeted studies on rare haplogroups.
Third, contrary to previous phylogeny-based conclu- sions,15,16 the deepest clades of the revised MSY phylogeny are currently found in central and northwest Africa.
posted 11 March, 2015 11:40 AM
Troll Patrol in your own words, about how far back in time do you have to go to find the primary ancestors of modern Europeans living in Africa?
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Troll Patrol in your own words, about how far back in time do you have to go to find the primary ancestors of modern Europeans living in Africa?
Never saw your response, but it's remarkable and funny. Considering the fact you have such major problems with Africans in European history. lol
Posts: 22239 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic