Seriously shut the hell up. When did Europeans become the fully cold adapted Euros that they are today, when did East and west African haplogroups split, and when was the significant backflow into back from East Africa. If you cannot prove that fully adapted Euros as they are today came back and mass populated East Africa AFTER the lineages split, shut up. Stop claiming them as "Caucasoid" as if those features came from Europe.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
The fact of the matter is anyone who has seriously studied humnan Biology knows whats up. This is why more intelligent trolls like Perahu admit that the original Arabs were black Kushites. folks like Cashitty are not intelligent enough to comprehend basic tenants of Evolution so they lie and quote mine.
Europeans are depigmented Africans adapted to the climates of Europe, nothing more nothing less.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ So court's adjourn?
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Ethiopians are heavily Caucasoid (Eurasian) admixed.
Just look at any genetic study.
''Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians'' (Passarino et al. 1998)
''Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males.'' (Poloni et al. 1997)
''A high proportion of Ethiopian lineages, significantly more abundant in the northeast of that country, trace their western Eurasian origin in haplogroup N through assorted gene flow at different times and involving different source populations.'' (Toomas Kivisild et al.) Human Biology 75.2 (2003) 293-300
''Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin.'' (Scacchi et al. 2003)
''This finding, consistent with classic genetic-marker studies (Cavalli-Sforza 1997) and previous mtDNA results, is also in agreement with a similarly high proportion of western Asian Y chromosomes in Ethiopians (Passarino et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2002), which supports the view (Richards et al. 2003) that the observed admixture between sub-Saharan African and, most probably, western Asian ancestors of the Ethiopian populations applies to their gene pool in general.''
(Am. J. Hum. Genet., 75:000, 2004)
--- There's no doubt among scientists that Ethiopians are heavily Caucasoid admixed. 60% of their genepool is of western asian origin.
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
^^Yes yes no doubt they are "heavily caucasoid." So much so that if you move there you'll be mistaken for an Ethiopian.
Ethiopians
A Nigerian Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Omo Baba - You seem to be accepting that nonsense as scientific fact. It's from Mathilda's you know.
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
^I was being sarcastic.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:
Aww not the same sh!t again....
quote:
{sigh....}
WHAT time periods involved significant backflow that affected all East Africans (not particular populations like Amhara)? When did East and West Africans diverge and WHEN did Euros physically change into what they are now? And is it right to broad brush the history of the Amhara (relatively recent to Ethiopia) in particular to all of East Africa? Na.
Let us also review your previous bullsh!t.
quote: Negroids are a recent mutation, and Caucasoid predate Negroes in egypt by more than 10k years...
So you say West Africans are recent from 10-20k years ago (just following along ppl). Unless they came straight the fvck out of nowhere that would mean they came from "Caucasoid" people. But then you say they didnt come from "Caucasoid" peoples to warrant these features in their populations at all? They are different cause of backflow?! Then WHO was there before the backflow Cassi!!! Na see, your theory only holds the potential if "Caucasoid" lineages formed their features and came back AFTER West Africans diverged from East Africa, not before! You know it. Thats why you sayin there were back migrations after they became "Caucasoids." Which is it?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Aww not the same sh!t again....
What did you expect exactly? Something new? LOL
You know the dimwit posts the same crap over and over again no matter how many times it is debunked and it was debunked COUNTLESS times.
Most of those graphs don't even come from real scientific experts but from laymen distorters like Mathilda and Dienekes Pontikos.
The above dendogram does comes from an authentic study done by real expert (Tishkoff I'm not mistaken); however the racial labels were NOT part of it and were obviously photoshopped on! LOL
Ignoring the fake racial labels attached, to those familiar with human population history, the relations posed by the dendogram make sense. Among the various African groups, Ethiopians are closest related to non-Africans than other Africans are because all non-Africans descended from East Africans. Notice the San are intermediate between Ethiopians and the other groups even though San live in southern Africa far away from Ethiopia and closer in proximity to Bantu. There is obviously a double standard in excluding both San and Ethiopians from the other Africans who are labeled as "True Negroids" yet all the European groups listed are grouped together with North African Berbers and peoples of the 'Near East' into one simply "Caucasoid" group but notice there is no "True Caucasoid" as there are "True Negroids" which would suggest there are "fake negroids", no doubt being the San and Ethiopians. LOL Note that among the "caucasoids" Berber is an outlier being closest to Africans/Ethiopians. This is not surprising since Berbers ARE Africans but those in the coasts have high levels of European admixture. Next to the Berbers in African ancestry is the Near East which is right next to Africa. Note also that the groups in the "True Negroids" cluster have longer branches separating each other, namely the branches between Pygmies and West Africans. Longer branches implies greater genetic distance which also implies greater genetic diversity. Yet all the groups in the "Caucasoid" cluster all have short branches denoting much less diversity. This all contradicts the claims of the Pyramidiot who says "negroids" have the least diversity! LMAO Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Seriously shut the hell up. When did Europeans become the fully cold adapted Euros that they are today, when did East and west African haplogroups split, and when was the significant backflow into back from East Africa. If you cannot prove that fully adapted Euros as they are today came back and mass populated East Africa AFTER the lineages split, shut up. Stop claiming them as "Caucasoid" as if those features came from Europe.
Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and Western Eurasia.
High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males
Juan J Sanchez1, Charlotte Hallenberg1, Claus Børsting1, Alexis Hernandez2 and Niels Morling1
1Department of Forensic Genetics, Institute of Forensic Medicine, University of Copenhagen, Denmark 2Departamento de Canarias, Instituto Nacional de Toxicología, La Laguna, Tenerife, Spain
Abstract We genotyped 45 biallelic markers and 11 STR systems on the Y chromosome in 201 male Somalis. In addition, 65 sub-Saharan Western Africans, 59 Turks and 64 Iraqis were typed for the biallelic Y chromosome markers. In Somalis, 14 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified including E3b1 (77.6%) and K2 (10.4%). The haplogroup E3b1 with the rare DYS19-11 allele (also called the E3b1 cluster ) was found in 75.1% of male Somalis, and 70.6% of Somali Y chromosomes were E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12, DYS437-14, DYS438-11 and DYS393-13. The haplotype diversity of eight Y-STRs ('minimal haplotype') was 0.9575 compared to an average of 0.9974 and 0.9996 in European and Asian populations. In sub-Saharan Western Africans, only four haplogroups were identified. The West African clade E3a was found in 89.2% of the samples and the haplogroup E3b1 was not observed. In Turks, 12 haplogroups were found including J2*(xJ2f2) (27.1%), R1b3*(xR1b3d, R1b3f) (20.3%), E3b3 and R1a1*(xR1a1b) (both 11.9%). In Iraqis, 12 haplogroups were identified including J2*(xJ2f2) (29.7%) and J*(xJ2) (26.6%). The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya – with predominant E3b1 cluster lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000–5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa.
^So Duncie, tell us when did this "eurasian admixture" came to east Africa?
Omo I Homo sapiens remain from Ethiopia 190,000 years ago
Herto, another homo sapiens remain from Ethiopia 160,000 years ago
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Ethiopians are heavily Caucasoid (Eurasian) admixed.
Just look at any genetic study.
''Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians'' (Passarino et al. 1998)
''Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males.'' (Poloni et al. 1997)
''A high proportion of Ethiopian lineages, significantly more abundant in the northeast of that country, trace their western Eurasian origin in haplogroup N through assorted gene flow at different times and involving different source populations.'' (Toomas Kivisild et al.) Human Biology 75.2 (2003) 293-300
''Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin.'' (Scacchi et al. 2003)
''This finding, consistent with classic genetic-marker studies (Cavalli-Sforza 1997) and previous mtDNA results, is also in agreement with a similarly high proportion of western Asian Y chromosomes in Ethiopians (Passarino et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2002), which supports the view (Richards et al. 2003) that the observed admixture between sub-Saharan African and, most probably, western Asian ancestors of the Ethiopian populations applies to their gene pool in general.''
(Am. J. Hum. Genet., 75:000, 2004)
--- There's no doubt among scientists that Ethiopians are heavily Caucasoid admixed. 60% of their genepool is of western asian origin.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Seriously shut the hell up. When did Europeans become the fully cold adapted Euros that they are today, when did East and west African haplogroups split, and when was the significant backflow into back from East Africa. If you cannot prove that fully adapted Euros as they are today came back and mass populated East Africa AFTER the lineages split, shut up. Stop claiming them as "Caucasoid" as if those features came from Europe.
Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and Western Eurasia.
High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males
Juan J Sanchez1, Charlotte Hallenberg1, Claus Børsting1, Alexis Hernandez2 and Niels Morling1
1Department of Forensic Genetics, Institute of Forensic Medicine, University of Copenhagen, Denmark 2Departamento de Canarias, Instituto Nacional de Toxicología, La Laguna, Tenerife, Spain
Abstract We genotyped 45 biallelic markers and 11 STR systems on the Y chromosome in 201 male Somalis. In addition, 65 sub-Saharan Western Africans, 59 Turks and 64 Iraqis were typed for the biallelic Y chromosome markers. In Somalis, 14 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified including E3b1 (77.6%) and K2 (10.4%). The haplogroup E3b1 with the rare DYS19-11 allele (also called the E3b1 cluster ) was found in 75.1% of male Somalis, and 70.6% of Somali Y chromosomes were E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12, DYS437-14, DYS438-11 and DYS393-13. The haplotype diversity of eight Y-STRs ('minimal haplotype') was 0.9575 compared to an average of 0.9974 and 0.9996 in European and Asian populations. In sub-Saharan Western Africans, only four haplogroups were identified. The West African clade E3a was found in 89.2% of the samples and the haplogroup E3b1 was not observed. In Turks, 12 haplogroups were found including J2*(xJ2f2) (27.1%), R1b3*(xR1b3d, R1b3f) (20.3%), E3b3 and R1a1*(xR1a1b) (both 11.9%). In Iraqis, 12 haplogroups were identified including J2*(xJ2f2) (29.7%) and J*(xJ2) (26.6%). The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya – with predominant E3b1 cluster lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000–5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa.
Explain why they are tropical adapted and not extensive hairy? lol
The Northeast Africa-based E1b1b1a subclade is defined by SNP M78. Somalia, Sudan and Egypt are among the present day countries with very high frequencies (60-90%) of the E1b1b1a M78 subclade. The STR data also support its origin in this area with a TMRCA estimated at 14-23 kya.
The E1b1b1a1b (V32) subclade is a descendant of E1b1b1a1 (V12). E1b1b1a1b/V32 is highest in Somalia (47-75%),
This somewhat rare haplogroup, E1b1b1e (V6), has only been observed in East Africa with the most appreciable levels seen in Ethiopia (4-17%). Kenya and Somalia also harbor a moderate frequency (5%) of this subclade.
"The results of a population survey on blood group distribution in Somalia, East Africa, are presented. Over 1,000 subjects were tested for most blood groups included in the survey. The sampling covered the whole country and was well in accordance with the population density as estimated by the recorded birth places of the subjects. Altogether, 46 blood group antigens were tested, partly common antigens within 11 of the major blood group systems, but also infrequent and very frequent antigens, some not tested before in Africa, were included. The results were compared with the available data for other related peoples and for populations from the same geographical area. The standard genetic distances were also applied in the comparison. The results suggest that only a minor component in the genetic constitution of the Somali population can be ascribed to Caucasian admixture. They are markedly in contrast with some earlier findings. During the survey we observed a previously unknown Rh gene complex occurring with a polymorphic frequency in Somalis." P. Sistonend, J. Koistinena, Aden Abdulleb. (1987) Distribution of Blood Groups in the East African Somali Population. Hum Hered. 37(5):300-313
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
^And as the Omo I, II and Herto remains I posted above shows, East Africans has had their phenotype for the past 190,000 years. Nothing caucasoid about them.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Maybe I'm skimming through this too fast Lionese but,
a. Who're the west Africans being studied??? And where??? Does it say for the other groups too???
b. What proof we have that significant migrations occurred after Eurasians adapted? They may have had backflow some time ago but that dont mean they got their appearance from em if they came back without changing.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
Early Europeans, as recently as 6,000-9000 years ago, looked somewhat like Africans in terms of retained 'tropical' characteristics. Cold adaptation was to bring about several physical changes over time from the initial Out of Africa migrations to Europe. Retained traces of 'tropical' characteristics, indicate a "large African role in the origins of anatomically modern Europeans." (Holliday and Churchill 2003).
"Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. .. results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions." (Holliday, Trenton (1997) Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins. Journal of Human Evolution, Volume 32, Issue 5, 1997, Pages 423-447)
".. while the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans have significantly higher (i.e., tropically-adapted) brachial and crural indices than do recent Europeans, they also have shorter (i.e., cold-adapted) limbs. The somewhat paradoxical retention of "tropical" indices in the context of more "cold-adapted" limb length is best explained as evidence for Replacement in the European Late Pleistocene, followed by gradual cold adaptation in glacial Europe." (Holliday, Trenton (1999) Brachial and crural indices of European Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans. Journal of Human Evolution. Volume 36, Issue 5, May 1999, Pages 549-566)
"Stature, body mass, and body proportions are evaluated for the Cheddar Man (Gough's Cave 1) skeleton. Like many of his Mesolithic contemporaries, Gough's Cave 1 evinces relatively short estimated stature (ca. 166.2 cm [5' 5']) and low body mass (ca. 66 kg [146 lbs]). In body shape, he is similar to recent Europeans for most proportional indices. He differs, however, from most recent Europeans in his high crural index and tibial length/trunk height indices. Thus, while Gough's Cave 1 is characterized by a total morphological pattern considered 'cold-adapted', these latter two traits may be interpreted as evidence of a large African role in the origins of anatomically modern Europeans." (TRENTON W. HOLLIDAY a1 and STEVEN E. CHURCHILL. (2003). Gough's Cave 1 (Somerset, England): an assessment of body size and shape, Bulletin of the Natural History Museum: Geology, 58:37-44 Cambridge University Press)
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Indeed Patrol...
and as regards Ethiopians:
Ethiopians are "intermediate" in terms of OOA flow, not simplistic race admixture- Tishkoff
Recent DNA surveys show so called "Caucasian" blood of trivial frequency among Ethiopians --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Several studies of Ethiopians have skewed sampling so that a balanced picture does not emerge- passarino sforza ethiopian skew
Europeans have just as as must "mix" from Africans as Ethiopian from reputed "Caucasoids" according to some studies, but hypocritical "biodiversity" double standards almost always duck and avoid the African admixture of Europeans
Ethiopians cluster overwhelmingly with Africans in other studies- mtdna ethiop Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Seriously shut the hell up. When did Europeans become the fully cold adapted Euros that they are today, when did East and west African haplogroups split, and when was the significant backflow into back from East Africa. If you cannot prove that fully adapted Euros as they are today came back and mass populated East Africa AFTER the lineages split, shut up. Stop claiming them as "Caucasoid" as if those features came from Europe.
We can conclude that mass migration has never ever taken place into East Africa.
As prove was not given, either! If truly so, thousands upon thousands of cold adapted caucasoid limbs would have been found all over the place. Which is not the case!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Ethiopians are heavily Caucasoid (Eurasian) admixed.
Just look at any genetic study.
''Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians'' (Passarino et al. 1998)
''Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males.'' (Poloni et al. 1997)
Images brought to you from mathildasanthropologyblog.files
Umm - between the San bushmen and Berbers. OK that says Caucasoid.
BTW - Who made up the map - Coon or another Neandernut follower of mathildablog. The True Negroids label with Mbuti pigmy included is a dead giveaway in case you didn't know it, aside from the label for your images [IMG]. Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Indeed. But no matter what the racists come up with, it is completely debunked by hard data on the diversity of tropical African peoples.
ANd we all know Ethiopians have some gene flow from Persia, Arabia, and also Italy in the modern era. That is nothing new. Almost EVERY human group has some gene flow. But this is comparatively recent gene flow. Fundamentally though, the core ancient Ethiopian population's "intermediate" position has nothing to do with simplistic race mixes, but to their position in the OOA flow.
Tishkoff debunks any simplistic "intermediate" race mix theory..
Haplogroup E- uniting African peoples across the continent
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
''Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males.'' (Poloni et al. 1997)
^^^
^^^Bwa aha hahahahahah.. Hapless buffoons! This so-called "quote" proffered is totally bogus.
I have the pdf in front of me and it is available on the web. No such thing is said by Poloni 1997. This is another example of "biodiversity" and HBD fakery and deception, and the bogus "citations" and "references" they insert into Wikipedia and elsewhere.
Idiots.. Don't you know people can check up on your fakery with a few clicks? And the Wiki article in which you have been inserting this BS is riddled with several other errors- but I will not point them out. Let them sit and serve to continually undermine the "article" and the further credibility of "HBD" and assorted "bodiversity" idiots..
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ And again, so what's new??! The Euronuts have nothing left except to lie. They know damn well that the Egyptians as northeast Africans are closely related to other East Africans like Ethiopians so they have no choice but to white-wash them as well! We've already seen these idiots white-wash other Africans including folks in Rwanda, Kenya, and Tanzania. Why the f*ck are we even arguing with these nutballs? Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Simpletons, there is no shortage of papers which prove Ethiopians are 60% Western Asian.
A few i have on PDF -
Wilson JF, Weale ME, Smith AC, et al. Population genetic structure of variable drug response. Nat Genet. Nov 2001;29(3):265-269. Paper, comment1, comment2
Tishkoff SA, Pakstis AJ, Stoneking M, et al. Short tandem-repeat polymorphism/alu haplotype variation at the PLAT locus: implications for modern human origins. Am J Hum Genet. Oct 2000;67(4):901-925. PLAT
Lovell A, Moreau C, Yotova V, et al. Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and western Eurasia. Ann Hum Genet. May 2005;69(Pt 3):275-287. Lovell
Poloni ES, Semino O, Passarino G, et al. Human genetic affinities for Y-chromosome P49a,f/TaqI haplotypes show strong correspondence with linguistics. Am J Hum Genet. Nov 1997;61(5):1015-1035. Poloni
Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, et al. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. Jun 6 2000;97(12):6769-6774. Hammer
Sanchez JJ, Hallenberg C, Borsting C, Hernandez A, Morling N. High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males. Eur J Hum Genet. Jul 2005;13(7):856-866. Sanchez
Scacchi R, De Stefano GF, Ruggeri M, Corbo RM. Genetic variation atapolipoprotein E locus in Ethiopia: an E5 variant corresponds to two different mutant alleles: E*5 (Glu212Lys) and E*5 (Gln204Lys; Cys112Arg). Hum Biol. Apr 2003;75(2):293-300
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Mounds of recent Y-chromosome, mtDNA and autosomal evidence for Afronuts who are in denial of reality:
"The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
(Scacchi et al., Hum Biol, 2003)
"The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. ... The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position."
(De Stefano et al., Ann Hum Biol, 2002)
"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."
(Passarino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1998)
"Non sub-Saharan African samples are all grouped together...with...the Ethiopian Amharic sample. Ethiopians are not statistically differentiated from the Egyptian and Tunisian samples, in agreement with their linguistic affiliation with the Afro-Asiatic family."
(Poloni et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1997)
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Stop reposting the same citations!! Most of these have already been responded to by ES!
quote:Wilson JF, Weale ME, Smith AC, et al. Population genetic structure of variable drug response. Nat Genet. Nov 2001;29(3):265-269.
"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."
(Passarino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1998)
quote:Poloni ES, Semino O, Passarino G, et al. Human genetic affinities for Y-chromosome P49a,f/TaqI haplotypes show strong correspondence with linguistics. Am J Hum Genet. Nov 1997;61(5):1015-1035. Poloni
Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, et al. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. Jun 6 2000;97(12):6769-6774.
quote: Lovell A, Moreau C, Yotova V, et al. Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and western Eurasia. Ann Hum Genet. May 2005;69(Pt 3):275-287. Lovell
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ ES...lol.
You need peer-reviewed sources to counter those studies, not images made by trolls like Zaharan on windows paint...
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:"The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
Basically parts of this study that I havent seen ES talk about is Underhill 2000 and Tartaglia et al. 1996. Cavalli Sforza 1994 has been debunked to death.
quote: (De Stefano et al., Ann Hum Biol, 2002) "The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. ... The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position.
(Scacchi et al., Hum Biol, 2003) "The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. ... The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position."
Tishkoff provides a different picture
quote:"The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopian Jews and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow. The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999)."
Ok and so then theres this
quote: Sanchez JJ, Hallenberg C, Borsting C, Hernandez A, Morling N. High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males. Eur J Hum Genet. Jul 2005;13(7):856-866. Sanchez
So basically all there's left is Underhill 2000 Tartaglia et al. 1996. JJ Sanchez with an abstract posted by Lioness.
^Cassi this is hardly "mounds" of research. Now with the stuff thats already been repeated out the way, I'll see what others say about the remains for now. Digging up the responses to this sh!t took enough time for me already!!!
Omo also made a good point that early skulls show admixture wasnt needed
Ethiopians looked like that long before OOA movement
^ We dont need to guess if their features were cause of mixing with Euros. We already know thats not true.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Ethiopians/Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
A variant of one of the main genes associated with light skin in many West Eurasian populations (including European) is found at a moderate frequency range of 10%-30% in the Horn populations.
"Skin pigmentation is one of the most recognizable human phenotypes and tends to vary on a latitudinal cline, even within Europe. The derived alleles of missense SNPs in SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and SLC45A2 (rs16891982) have both been implicated in light skin pigmentation among Europeans. We have collected data for these markers from 4474 individuals in 107 population samples. The derived alleles of both SNPs were observed at high frequencies throughout Europe, though the derived allele of rs16891982 is found at lower frequencies in Southern Europe. The derived allele of rs1426654 was also found at moderate to high frequencies 2 to 100% in East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia, whereas the derived allele of rs16891982 was seen at frequencies of 0 to 58% in these populations. At SLC24A5 a single allele of a 13-SNP (including rs1426654) haplotype covering ~146 kb accounts for ~95% of the chromosomes in Europe. At SLC45A2, we saw no significant LD around rs16891982. Using the REHH test, we found strong evidence of selection for the derived allele of rs1426654 in Europe as well as East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia where it had not previously been seen and were able to confirm the evidence of selection in East Africa using nHS. We saw no or very weak evidence of selection for rs1689192 using REHH or nHS among European and nearby populations.'' -- Evidence of selection in the pigmentation genes SLC24A5 in Europeans, East Africans, and Southwest and Central Asians and SLC45A2 in East Asians and Native Americans; M. P. Donnelly, W. C. Speed, A. J. Pakstis, J. R. Kidd, K. K. Kidd.
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
Mixed European-Somalis also come out basically Caucasoid -
If the Somalis were Negroid, then mixed European-Somalis would not come out looking Caucasoid.
The fact Somali-Europeans come out looking Caucasoid is undeniable evidence that Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Stop the difference...
West African (Negroid)
East African (Caucasoid admixed)
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ^ ES...lol.
You need peer-reviewed sources to counter those studies, not images made by trolls like Zaharan on windows paint...
You dont need people with titles. You simply need a convincing argument--substance. A little research can show that the northern/coastal areas have more Arab influences than the south. This is usually a given too. Costal areas close to other continents would have more access to people who came from the outside than the people more inland. Usin them to represent everyone is just stupid and anyone should question it. Its just common sense. Even your blog posters will admit that the further north you go the more Arab/Euro flow you'll find.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
"The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies(Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe."
^^^190 kya.
Euros werent needed to give East Africans their appearance. You cant argue Negroids are a recent and then speculate that East African appearances relied on MIXING with Euros.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Stop the difference...
West African (Negroid)
Not all west africans fit into your "negroid' stereotypes.
Bamileke
Nigerians
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
The Omo Remains, such as Omo 2, are not H.S.S but archaic. We've covered this before, same for the Kish remains. They are lumped into a Homo sapien subspecies (Idaltu) based on their primitive/archaic traits. They aren't anatomically modern Human.
The status of Omo 1 as H.S.S or anatomically modern Human (AMH) is constantly debated, while Omo 2 is archaic, and not AMH.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Stop the difference...
West African (Negroid)
Not all west africans fit into your "negroid' stereotypes.
Bamileke
Nigerians
They are all the same: alveolar prognathism, nappy hair (second photo has artificial hair), lip eversion, and wide nose.
Negroids don't have any physical diversity. Its why they are obsessed to link themselves to East Africans (who are heavily Caucasoid admixed) as they despise their own broad traits and nappy hair.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Alvelor prognathism? Really? In the 1st picture many of the people have very reduced if any prognathism compared to the stereotypical image your ass keeps postin to represent ALL west Africans.
And Wide nose? Really? You lost me cause neither or the last 2 women have that. Many in the 1st dont either.
quote:The Omo Remains, such as Omo 2, are not H.S.S but archaic. We've covered this before, same for the Kish remains. They are lumped into a Homo sapien subspecies (Idaltu) based on their primitive/archaic traits. They aren't anatomically modern Human.
The status of Omo 1 as H.S.S or anatomically modern Human (AMH) is constantly debated, while Omo 2 is archaic, and not AMH.
This doesnt matter. African hominids even before they were even AMH HAD these traits without having to adapt and return from EURASIA. Also you need to fix the contradiction you made sayin that "Negroids" are new but then East Africans needed to mate with Euros. If West Africans are newer they're a subset of East African diversity like YOU are and can have features also found in East Africa. I've already gone into showin youtube vids of Nigerians can have more defined curls WITHOUT mingling with white people too. Not goin' there with your ass today. Basically almost all your sources have been debunked by now, so your gonna picture dump and b!tch like your an expert bout a continent your ass has NEVER been to.
And why is Omo1 debated. Just wondering. Doesnt help you none but I'll ask anyway.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:This doesnt matter. African hominids even before they were even AMH HAD these traits without having to adapt and return from EURASIA.
All archaic Hominids had those general traits (with minor differences such as dental), not just archaics from Africa. Only Caucasoids however evolved from this primitive Pleistocene morphology. Do you understand?
You cannot equate modern races to archaic remains, as the latter were still evolving and they are of seperate origins.
However if you want to put a racial label on Hominids, they all loosely fall under Australoid based on metrics and craniofacial features. Note for example the large supraorbital ridge of the Omo 1 skull you have posted, VERY non-Negroid and characteristic of Australoids. Heavy browridges are completely absent in Negroids.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yet second to so-called "Australoids" in having heavy brow ridges are "Caucasoids". So how come Caucasoids are never considered 'primitive' for having such 'primal' traits?
Also, as far as heavy brow ridges not found among "Negroids" then what are we to make of Nazlet Khater man, the earliest modern human found in Egypt?
Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago. The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of Negroid morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the Negroid average." The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry. The morphological features of the Nazlet Khater skeleton were analysed by Thoma (1984). The 35,000 year old skeleton was examined using multivariate statistical procedures. In the first part, principal components analysis is performed on a dataset of mandible dimensions of 220 fossils, sub-fossils and modern specimens, ranging in time from the Late Pleistocene to recent and restricted in space to the African continent and Southern Levant. ---Thoma A., Morphology and Affinities of the Nazlet Khater Man; Journal of Human Evolution, vol. 13, 1984
Nazlet Khater falls closer to the Late Palaeolithic Nubian samples . . . If an ancestral descendant relationship existed between Nazlet Khater and the Late Palaeolithic Nubian specimens, then regional continuity persisted among the Upper/Late Pleistocene populations of the Upper Nile region. The Nazlet Khater specimen is part of a relict population which is a descendant of a larger sub-Saharan stock, which extended as far north as present day upper Egypt sometime during the Last Interglacial period, or the early part of the Last Glacial period. In such a scenario, the Nazlet Khater belongs to a relict population which retained some of the morphological features [form & structure] that were present among Middle Stone Age populations, but no longer present in other contemporaneous sub-Saharan and North African populations. ---The Position of the Nazlet Khater Specimen Among Prehistoric and Modern African and Levantine Populations, Ron Pinhasi, Departent of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, U.K., Patrick Semal, Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences, Belgium; Journal of Human Evolution (2000) vol. 39, 269–288.
And speaking of late Paleolithic Nubians, what are we to make of this Wadi Halfa man?
The male cranium above is from Wadi al-Halfa on the Sudan-Egypt border. Dating from the Mesolithic-Holocene period, it is typical of crania in Sudan and surrounding regions from that time frame. More recent Nubian crania from the Christian period have more rounded skulls without the sloping frontal bone. However, the vertical zygomatic arch, prominent glabella, sagittal plateau, and occipital bun (less pronounced) are retained. The cranium above has pronounced facial prognathism, but moderate dental protrusion. The chin is vertical with a angular mandible and very squat ramus. (Image from David Lee Greene and George Armelagos. The Wadi Halfa mesolithic population. (Amherst: University of Massachusetts, 1972)
Of course in YOUR warped mind, the men above despite their very "negroid" traits are still Caucasoid no doubt.
Of course this was all discussed before.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Djehuti,
Nazlet Khater man is an ancestral Capoid, not Negroid.
''[...]the principles components analysis on the mandible dimensions suggest that the speciman is a 'Proto Khoisan'. This is supported by the fact that mean PC2 scores for historic Khoisan populations are similar.''
''The broad and squat mandibular ramus seems to be a typical Khoisan trait.''
- Vermeersch. P. M. Palaeolithic Quarrying Sites In Upper And Middle Egypt, 2002, pp. 325-327
Nazlet Khater man has a broad ramus, far less pronounced than in Negroids. A broad ramus is a unique feature of Capoid crania.
See the marked differences of the mandible, including ramus here -
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidiot: Ethiopians/Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
A variant of one of the main genes associated with light skin in many West Eurasian populations (including European) is found at a moderate frequency range of 10%-30% in the Horn populations.
"Skin pigmentation is one of the most recognizable human phenotypes and tends to vary on a latitudinal cline, even within Europe. The derived alleles of missense SNPs in SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and SLC45A2 (rs16891982) have both been implicated in light skin pigmentation among Europeans. We have collected data for these markers from 4474 individuals in 107 population samples. The derived alleles of both SNPs were observed at high frequencies throughout Europe, though the derived allele of rs16891982 is found at lower frequencies in Southern Europe. The derived allele of rs1426654 was also found at moderate to high frequencies 2 to 100% in East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia, whereas the derived allele of rs16891982 was seen at frequencies of 0 to 58% in these populations. At SLC24A5 a single allele of a 13-SNP (including rs1426654) haplotype covering ~146 kb accounts for ~95% of the chromosomes in Europe. At SLC45A2, we saw no significant LD around rs16891982. Using the REHH test, we found strong evidence of selection for the derived allele of rs1426654 in Europe as well as East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia where it had not previously been seen and were able to confirm the evidence of selection in East Africa using nHS. We saw no or very weak evidence of selection for rs1689192 using REHH or nHS among European and nearby populations.'' -- Evidence of selection in the pigmentation genes SLC24A5 in Europeans, East Africans, and Southwest and Central Asians and SLC45A2 in East Asians and Native Americans; M. P. Donnelly, W. C. Speed, A. J. Pakstis, J. R. Kidd, K. K. Kidd.
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
Mixed European-Somalis also come out basically Caucasoid -
If the Somalis were Negroid, then mixed European-Somalis would not come out looking Caucasoid.
The fact Somali-Europeans come out looking Caucasoid is undeniable evidence that Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
If all of this is true (which it is NOT), then why do all Ethiopian and Somali mixes with Asians also come out Asian looking??
Ethiopian/Taiwanese
Somali/Indonesian
Eritrean/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Perhaps East Africans are also 'Mongoloid'-mixed as well and these people above look totally Asian because of the 'Mongoloid' genes already inherent in East Africans! LOL
And what about West African mixes?
This actor looks very "Caucasian" although his mother is British, his father is Ghanian (West African).
What are we to make of all these holes in your arguments? *sigh*
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidiot: Djehuti,
Nazlet Khater man is an ancestral Capoid, not Negroid.
''[...]the principles components analysis on the mandible dimensions suggest that the speciman is a 'Proto Khoisan'. This is supported by the fact that mean PC2 scores for historic Khoisan populations are similar.''
''The broad and squat mandibular ramus seems to be a typical Khoisan trait.''
- Vermeersch. P. M. Palaeolithic Quarrying Sites In Upper And Middle Egypt, 2002, pp. 325-327
Nazlet Khater man has a broad ramus, far less pronounced than in Negroids. A broad ramus is a unique feature of Capoid crania.
See the marked differences of the mandible, including ramus here -
You obviously didn't read the two references I cited, let alone read the thread here or else you would realize that the Nazlet Khater skull in ENTIRETY shows traits of both so-called 'Capoid' AND 'Negroid' which is why Nazlet Khater was described as a "proto-Khoin-Negro" or ancestor of both racial groups. Of course racial groups don't exist in the first place which is why there is no clear distinction between so-called 'Capoid' and 'Negroid' anymore than there is 'Nordic' and 'Mediterranean' Euros, dumbass! I find it funny how you consider Nazlet Khater as 'Capoid' even though so-called 'Capoid' populations exist today only in the opposite pole of the African continent in southern Africa, yet there is no trace of them anywhere else in the continent. This is also why your weak rebuttal consists of just ONE cherry-picked trait of mandibular ramus shape, while you IGNORE all the other traits! By the way, the mandibular squamus of both Africans ('Capoid' and 'Negroid') are wide while the 'caucasian' is narrow. This again proves how Africans or "negroids" as you put it are very diverse yet you hide this diversity by splitting them apart as separate 'races' entirely.
quote: Negroids don't have any physical diversity. Its why they are obsessed to link themselves to East Africans (who are heavily Caucasoid admixed) as they despise their own broad traits and nappy hair.
If "Negroids" have no genetic diversity then why the hell is it that in your map above, the genetic lines among the different "true negro" groups are much longer creating more distance between the groups compared to all the groups in the "(True) Caucasoid" group who cluster together with shorter lines?? LMAO Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
lol.. stop it Djehuti- you are killing the fool with logic..
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Bottom line, those elite Europeans who created white supremacy as the basis for modern white European nation states around the world knew full well that black people were the first people of the earth. But that didn't and does not matter to them. All that matters is power and control now, today and forever.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote: I find it funny how you consider Nazlet Khater as 'Capoid' even though so-called 'Capoid' populations exist today only in the opposite pole of the African continent in southern Africa, yet there is no trace of them anywhere else in the continent.
Capoids (Bushmen) originated in North and East Africa, but were pushed south by Caucasoids during the Mesolithic.
Look up the Singa skull.
Singa has often been regarded as having proto- Bushman or Bushmanoid affinities, especially the posterior of the vault (Woodward 1938; Briggs 1955; Coon 1962, Wells 1972; Wolpoff 1980).
Also there is rock art evidence of Capoids in North Africa.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: lol.. stop it Djehuti- you are killing the fool with logic..
That source mentions absolutely nothing about ''tropical africans''.
If you also check figure 10.17 on those pages you have referenced, you will see that Nazlet Khater Man clusters with Capoids as opposed to 'Negro'/Cape-Coloured. They are seperate races.
Btw, i also exposed you as a total fraud in the other thread where you posted a penis size graph alleged to have been undertaken by the BMJ (British Medical Journal). No such study however exists and its been exposed as an internet hoax by blacks who are clearly insecure over their small penis size...
quote:On the right left hand, we can see BMJ. (British medical journal). After checking at www.bmj.com, we discovered no such a chart has been issued by the British medical journal. In fact, As per June 2011, there is still no existing penis size study by ethnicity (race). This chart has been copied and pasted over several websites with the mention: bmj.com. However, the british medical journal is a repository for international studies. The chart should have had a reference to a year, an institute, a university with researchers’ names. It should be linked to a document title. That is not the case. Consequently, It is an hoax.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidiot:
That source mentions absolutely nothing about ''tropical africans''.
LOL You white Anglo-imbecile. What the hell do you think "Sub-Saharans" are --who are mentioned multiple times in that study-- if not tropical Africans?!
quote:If you also check figure 10.17 on those pages you have referenced, you will see that Nazlet Khater Man clusters with Capoids as opposed to 'Negro'/Cape-Coloured. They are seperate races.
But if you checked out what I posted, I said there is no true separate distinction between so-called "Capoids" and "Negroes" any more than there is between "Nordics" and "Mediterranean Euros". There are no 'races' and why is it 'Capoids' are found at the southern most end of 'Sub-Sahara'??
In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges. In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups. Similarly, the Epipaleolithic populations from Site 117 and Wadi Halfa are also affiliated with sub-Saharan LSA, Iron Age and modern Negroid groups rather than with contemporaneous North African populations such as Taforalt and the Ibero-maurusian. -- Pierre M. Vermeersch (Author & Editor), 'Palaeolithic quarrying sites in Upper and Middle Egypt', Egyptian Prehistory Monographs Vol. 4, Leuven University Press (2002).
Both hypotheses are compatible with the hypothesis proposed by Brothwell (1963) of an East African proto-Khoisan Negro stock which migrated southwards and westwards at some time during the Upper Pleistocene, and replaced most of the local populations of South Africa. Under such circumstances, it is possible that the Nazlet Khater specimen is part of a relict population of this proto-Khoisan Negro stock which extended as far north as Nazlet Khater at least until the late part of the Late Pleistocene. --- The Position of the Nazlet Khater Specimen Among Prehistoric and Modern African and Levantine Populations, Ron Pinhasi, Departent of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, U.K., Patrick Semal, Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences, Belgium; Journal of Human Evolution (2000) vol. 39.
What part of this can you not or won't understand?
We know your game already. If you find a skull in the Nile Valley especially in Egypt whose features are too "negroid" to classify as "caca-soid", you then label it as 'Capoid' as if it had anything to do with the Khoisan peoples who live all the way on the southern end of the continent! LOL
quote:Btw, i also exposed you as a total fraud in the other thread where you posted a penis size graph alleged to have been undertaken by the BMJ (British Medical Journal). No such study however exists and its been exposed as an internet hoax by blacks who are clearly insecure over their small penis size...
I'll leave that alone between you and Zarahan. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidiot: Ethiopians/Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
A variant of one of the main genes associated with light skin in many West Eurasian populations (including European) is found at a moderate frequency range of 10%-30% in the Horn populations.
"Skin pigmentation is one of the most recognizable human phenotypes and tends to vary on a latitudinal cline, even within Europe. The derived alleles of missense SNPs in SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and SLC45A2 (rs16891982) have both been implicated in light skin pigmentation among Europeans. We have collected data for these markers from 4474 individuals in 107 population samples. The derived alleles of both SNPs were observed at high frequencies throughout Europe, though the derived allele of rs16891982 is found at lower frequencies in Southern Europe. The derived allele of rs1426654 was also found at moderate to high frequencies 2 to 100% in East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia, whereas the derived allele of rs16891982 was seen at frequencies of 0 to 58% in these populations. At SLC24A5 a single allele of a 13-SNP (including rs1426654) haplotype covering ~146 kb accounts for ~95% of the chromosomes in Europe. At SLC45A2, we saw no significant LD around rs16891982. Using the REHH test, we found strong evidence of selection for the derived allele of rs1426654 in Europe as well as East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia where it had not previously been seen and were able to confirm the evidence of selection in East Africa using nHS. We saw no or very weak evidence of selection for rs1689192 using REHH or nHS among European and nearby populations.'' -- Evidence of selection in the pigmentation genes SLC24A5 in Europeans, East Africans, and Southwest and Central Asians and SLC45A2 in East Asians and Native Americans; M. P. Donnelly, W. C. Speed, A. J. Pakstis, J. R. Kidd, K. K. Kidd.
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
Mixed European-Somalis also come out basically Caucasoid -
If the Somalis were Negroid, then mixed European-Somalis would not come out looking Caucasoid.
The fact Somali-Europeans come out looking Caucasoid is undeniable evidence that Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
If all of this is true (which it is NOT), then why do all Ethiopian and Somali mixes with Asians also come out Asian looking??
Ethiopian/Taiwanese
Somali/Indonesian
Eritrean/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Perhaps East Africans are also 'Mongoloid'-mixed as well and these people above look totally Asian because of the 'Mongoloid' genes already inherent in East Africans! LOL
And what about West African mixes?
This actor looks very "Caucasian" although his mother is British, his father is Ghanian (West African).
What are we to make of all these holes in your arguments? *sigh*
Of course you ignored the above post. Anglo-embicile.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
The Anglo-Idiot claims that mid to late paleolithic Egyptian and Sudanese crania were 'Capoid', yet where do the 'Caca-soids' fit in?? How did the populations change from 'Capoid' (who by the way are named after the Cape Peninsula of Southern Africa where they were discovered by Euros) to 'Caca-soid' people who built Egyptian civilization??
What is the Anglo-buffoon to make of this?
Description of X-ray images of Royal Mummies in X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies The standards for differentiating between racial or ethnic groups depends on the method used. In cephalometry and forensic science, there are some standards that have proven effective in practical usage. Because both dentofacial surgery and forensics require practical results, we can presume that ideology will play less of a role as compared to conventional anthropology. The latter has a long history of racial bias. The purpose of this study is to refute the argument that the Pharaohs did not conform to the "Negroid" phenotype, but not to support any biological basis of the concept of race.
Some standards that we will use in describing the x-ray diagrams (lateral view) of the royal mummies are now given:
WM Krogman (The Human Skeleton in Forensic Medicine)
RA Drummond ("A determination of cephalometric norms for the Negro race"); TL Alexander and HP Hitchcock ("Cephalometric standards for American Negro children"); RJ Fonseca, WD Klein ("A cephalometric evaluation of American Negro women"); CJ Kowalski, CE Nasjlet, GF Walker (Differential diagnosis of adult make black and white populations); A Jacobson ("The craniofacial skeletal pattern of the South African Negro")
Persons of African descent are distinguished by steep mandibular plane; sharp, vertical chin; protrusion of the incisors; prognathism; greater lower facial height but with less mid-facial height; upper mouth is more projecting than lower mouth (higher ANB angle).
Y'edyank and Iscan ("Craniofacial Growth and Evolution")
Mesolithic Nubians had low, sloping foreheads and robust features evolving into a globular cranium with high vault. The prominence of the orbital region was reduced by the Christian era and the occipital bun much less prominent. Flattening of the lambdoid and sagittal regions also became less pronounced. (Forensic analysis of the skull : craniofacial analysis, reconstruction, and identification. [editors Mehmet Yasar Iscan and Richard P. Helmer]. (New York, N.Y.: Wiley-Liss, 1993)
The male cranium above is from Wadi al-Halfa on the Sudan-Egypt border. Dating from the Mesolithic-Holocene period, it is typical of crania in Sudan and surrounding regions from that time frame. More recent Nubian crania from the Christian period have more rounded skulls without the sloping frontal bone. However, the vertical zygomatic arch, prominent glabella, sagittal plateau, and occipital bun (less pronounced) are retained. The cranium above has pronounced facial prognathism, but moderate dental protrusion. The chin is vertical with a angular mandible and very squat ramus. (Image from David Lee Greene and George Armelagos. The Wadi Halfa mesolithic population. (Amherst: University of Massachusetts, 1972) Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB]
quote:This doesnt matter. African hominids even before they were even AMH HAD these traits without having to adapt and return from EURASIA.
All archaic Hominids had those general traits (with minor differences such as dental), not just archaics from Africa. Only Caucasoids however evolved from this primitive Pleistocene morphology. Do you understand?
No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
quote:You cannot equate modern races to archaic remains, as the latter were still evolving and they are of seperate origins.
Omo1 is considered to be overall AMH with a few archaic qualities and it suggests that yes, Omo 1 is essentially an AMH and the origin of Omo 1 is probably not completely separate cause of how much the morphology resembles AMH. Find it kinda funny your talkin about this when you cling to Neanderthal or Cro Magnon heritage. It also shows no Euro adaptations/backflow was needed to get the traits we are now talking bout.
quote: However if you want to put a racial label on Hominids, they all loosely fall under Australoid based on metrics and craniofacial features. Note for example the large supraorbital ridge of the Omo 1 skull you have posted, VERY non-Negroid and characteristic of Australoids. Heavy browridges are completely absent in Negroids.
The point is Africans didnt need Euro adapted people to mix with em to get features like a thin nose or whatever. They were already showin up in hominids that were pretty much AMH in Africa +100KYA.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
What is the Anglo-buffoon to make of this?
lol.. somewhere in Britain, a village is missing its Anglo idiot... AND buffoon...
Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote: I find it funny how you consider Nazlet Khater as 'Capoid' even though so-called 'Capoid' populations exist today only in the opposite pole of the African continent in southern Africa, yet there is no trace of them anywhere else in the continent.
Capoids (Bushmen) originated in North and East Africa, but were pushed south by Caucasoids during the Mesolithic.
Look up the Singa skull.
Singa has often been regarded as having proto- Bushman or Bushmanoid affinities, especially the posterior of the vault (Woodward 1938; Briggs 1955; Coon 1962, Wells 1972; Wolpoff 1980).
Also there is rock art evidence of Capoids in North Africa.
There is no agreement on what morphology Singa has stupid, so called Bushman never lived in Northeast and or East Africa, they have South African origin.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids. The mutation occurred about 12k years ago. Look how recent Negroid skulls are -
''A human burial described as "proto-Negroid" was found at the base of the succession at Iwo Eleru with a date of 11200 ± 200 BP.'' (Allsworth-Jones, 2002)
''A single human skeleton some 12,000 years old from the lowest level of Iwo Eleru has been described as already showing specifically negroid features....'' (Phillipson, 2005)
12k only. Yet the Afronuts think the whole world mutated from them.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids. The mutation occurred about 12k years ago. Look how recent Negroid skulls are -
''A human burial described as "proto-Negroid" was found at the base of the succession at Iwo Eleru with a date of 11200 ± 200 BP.'' (Allsworth-Jones, 2002)
''A single human skeleton some 12,000 years old from the lowest level of Iwo Eleru has been described as already showing specifically negroid features....'' (Phillipson, 2005)
12k only. Yet the Afronuts think the whole world mutated from them.
1) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa?
2) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa and no North African ancestry?
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote: I find it funny how you consider Nazlet Khater as 'Capoid' even though so-called 'Capoid' populations exist today only in the opposite pole of the African continent in southern Africa, yet there is no trace of them anywhere else in the continent.
Capoids (Bushmen) originated in North and East Africa, but were pushed south by Caucasoids during the Mesolithic.
Look up the Singa skull.
Singa has often been regarded as having proto- Bushman or Bushmanoid affinities, especially the posterior of the vault (Woodward 1938; Briggs 1955; Coon 1962, Wells 1972; Wolpoff 1980).
Also there is rock art evidence of Capoids in North Africa.
There is no agreement on what morphology Singa has stupid, so called Bushman never lived in Northeast and or East Africa, they have South African origin.
Capoids originated in North Africa. Take a look at the following maps.
Coon, 1962 -
Pleistocene
Holocene
Green = Caucasoid Purple = Capoid Red = Australoid Blue - Mongoloid Yellow = Negroid
See how Capoids were pushed south by Caucasoids.
Negroids are only indigenous to West Africa.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB]
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids.
"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
Highly doubt they came from pygmies. What evidence do you have to support they came from pygmies specifically.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB]
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids.
"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
Highly doubt they came from pygmies. What evidence do you have to support they came from pygmies specifically.
''On the basis of genetic and archaeological data, black Africans seem to have radiated from a relatively small West African and possibly pygmy population within the last 20,000 years (Coon, 1962, pp. 651-656; Spurdle et al., 1994; Watson et al., 1996). The time and place of origin can be further narrowed down with linguistic data. Speakers of proto-Niger-Congo broke up c. 10,000 BP and the oldest derived group appear to be proto-Mande speakers, whose descendants inhabit the Niger's headwaters near the Mali-Guinea border (Blench, 1984, pp. 128-129; Ehret, 1984; Murdock, 1959, pp. 44, 64-68).''
''All of these physical and hormonal characteristics seem to have arisen within a narrow timeframe. In sub-Saharan Africa, the beginnings of proto-agriculture cannot be pushed back much further than 12,000 BP. A tall, clearly black African skeleton has been dated to 6,500 BP (Camp, 1974, p. 241; Coon, 1962, pp. 649-650). This leaves a window of barely six thousand years for the changes that differentiate black Africans from their hunter-gatherer ancestors,''
''By 6,000 to 7,000 years ago, the transition to agriculture had been completed in West Africa and these early agriculturalists were able to support much higher population densities than they had as hunter-gatherers. Inevitably, this nucleus of farming populations began to spread outward at the expense of more sparsely distributed Khoisan and pygmy peoples. By about 4,000 BP, the expansion had reached as far east as the middle Nile, when black Africans first appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker, 1921). About 3,000 BP, another wave of advance began along the Nigerian-Cameroon border and spread rapidly throughout central, eastern, and southern Africa (Cavalli-Sforza, 1986c, pp. 361-362; Diamond, 1997; Oliver, 1966). By 300 AD, pioneering groups had advanced as far south as KwaZulu-Natal''
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote: ''All of these physical and hormonal characteristics seem to have arisen within a narrow timeframe. In sub-Saharan Africa, the beginnings of proto-agriculture cannot be pushed back much further than 12,000 BP. A tall, clearly black African skeleton has been dated to 6,500 BP (Camp, 1974, p. 241; Coon, 1962, pp. 649-650). This leaves a window of barely six thousand years for the changes that differentiate black Africans from their hunter-gatherer ancestors,''
How does this imply pygmies were the ancestors AND that the cranial features of these pygmies weren't "Caucasoid." Also where would these pygmies have come from supposing "Caucasoids" or more accurately Africoids, weren't first? Are you suggesting big nosed pygmies predate all AMH in Africa? I doubt it. To take this back to Omo 1. Omo 1's features like a thin nose had already been there 190kya IN Africa. Omo 1 is essentially AMH. it's not wrong to say there's evidence that those features developed without any need of European mixture. Thus calling something like a thin nose a "Caucasoid" feature with the implication it comes from Europe is wrong.
quote:''On the basis of genetic and archaeological data, black Africans seem to have radiated from a relatively small West African and possibly pygmy population within the last 20,000 years (Coon, 1962, pp. 651-656; Spurdle et al., 1994; Watson et al., 1996).
And what in these studies mentioned suggested a pygmy population?
quote: ''By 6,000 to 7,000 years ago, the transition to agriculture had been completed in West Africa and these early agriculturalists were able to support much higher population densities than they had as hunter-gatherers. Inevitably, this nucleus of farming populations began to spread outward at the expense of more sparsely distributed Khoisan and pygmy peoples. By about 4,000 BP, the expansion had reached as far east as the middle Nile, when black Africans first appear in paintings from Pharaonic Egypt and in skeletal remains from Nubia (Junker, 1921). About 3,000 BP, another wave of advance began along the Nigerian-Cameroon border and spread rapidly throughout central, eastern, and southern Africa (Cavalli-Sforza, 1986c, pp. 361-362; Diamond, 1997; Oliver, 1966). By 300 AD, pioneering groups had advanced as far south as KwaZulu-Natal''
Wait your citing the guy who said pygmies and khoisan arent likely candidates??? Please explain how this suggests the Khoisan and the pygmies were the ancestral population of West Africans. All he says is that they spread at the expense of Khoisan and pygmy.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: How does this imply pygmies were the ancestors AND that the cranial features of these pygmies weren't "Caucasoid." Also where would these pygmies have come from supposing "Caucasoids" or more accurately Africoids, weren't first?
You are looking at evolution in the complete wrong way. The racial divergences according to the Multiregional model happened millions of years prior to sapienization. The races evolved in parallel lines, with minimal geneflow.
The OOA (Out of Africa) theory is now obsolete, as it predicted no admixture or regional archaics evolving into sapiens, instead it predicted a single source of sapienization, and then full replacement. What we now know though is that races have different archaic DNA, so its been disproven that everyone just evolved from a single African source. For example, Caucasoids have Neanderthal genes, while Negroids don't.
quote:Omo 1's features like a thin nose had already been there 190kya IN Africa.
lol
Omo 1's nose is VERY wide...
Thin noses only evolved in Cro-Magnons.
Heck, even the early Cro-Magnon samples (32k) had wider noses. Its only the later samples around 20k years ago that evolved thin.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about. Thin noses are a Caucasoid trait that evolved about 20k years ago in Eurasia.
quote:Wait your citing the guy who said pygmies and khoisan arent likely candidates???
He was a proponent of the Pygmy-Negroid theory in his 1986 publication.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Just thought I'd repost something Dana posted earlier
quote: Cold-adaptation "Regarding environmental buffering, Trinkaus (1986 and this volume) reiterates that while Neanderthal limb proportions are suggestive of cold adaptation, no such indications are shown by Eurasian early modern humans. Their distinct limb proportions are instead INDICATIVE OF EQUATORIAL ANCESTRY and better culturally based thermal protection.. the limb proportions of the Eurasian early modern samples are retentions of the African ancestral morphology of long limbs with long distal segments.." -- Erik Trinkaus (ed), 'The Emergence of Modern Humans", (C. Stringer p. 88). School of American Research, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1989.
quote:You are looking at evolution in the complete wrong way. The racial divergences according to the Multiregional model happened millions of years prior to sapienization.
Right and only 50% of Euros inherit any ancestry from Neanderthals and its about 1-4%. Yeah THAT is such a large amount of ancestry comes from outside Africa.
quote:
quote:Wait your citing the guy who said pygmies and khoisan arent likely candidates???
He was a proponent of the Pygmy-Negroid theory in his 1986 publication. [/QB]
That obviously changed though. So again if the Negroid is a recent mutation what came before? Obviously not a pygmy.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Right and only 50% of Euros inherit any ancestry from Neanderthals and its about 1-4%. Yeah THAT is such a large amount of ancestry comes from outside Africa.
Its not 50% of 'Euros', its all Caucasoids.
Furthermore, 4% is only the genes we know about. Most were probably lost through selective sweep. Many Neanderthal morphological traits are found in Caucasoids but are absent in Negroids.
We simply don't all descend from a single dispersal out of Africa. The only people who cling to this are a few afronuts as they are using it as a political tool to enforce race mixing. If we all came from a single source in Africa, racial barriers of course would be undermined. OOA thankfully however has been completely debunked. All races in fact have different non-related archaic ancestry, so the old ''we are all african, so no races exist - so let's mix the races'' argument is no longer valid.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Idiot:
quote: I find it funny how you consider Nazlet Khater as 'Capoid' even though so-called 'Capoid' populations exist today only in the opposite pole of the African continent in southern Africa, yet there is no trace of them anywhere else in the continent.
Capoids (Bushmen) originated in North and East Africa, but were pushed south by Caucasoids during the Mesolithic.
Look up the Singa skull.
Singa has often been regarded as having proto- Bushman or Bushmanoid affinities, especially the posterior of the vault (Woodward 1938; Briggs 1955; Coon 1962, Wells 1972; Wolpoff 1980).
Also there is rock art evidence of Capoids in North Africa.
There is no agreement on what morphology Singa has stupid, so called Bushman never lived in Northeast and or East Africa, they have South African origin.
Exactly what I have been saying all along. Note that early North African skulls are described not only as "bushmanoid" but "NEGROID" as well since they have features of BOTH as I pointed out with Nazlet Khater and Wadi Halfa. Just Anglo-idiot nonsense.
quote: Capoids originated in North Africa. Take a look at the following maps.
Coon, 1962 -
Pleistocene
Holocene
Green = Caucasoid Purple = Capoid Red = Australoid Blue - Mongoloid Yellow = Negroid
See how Capoids were pushed south by Caucasoids.
Negroids are only indigenous to West Africa.
Again with the Coon sh*t. Earth to Anglo-idiot: Carleton Coon's racial typology has been DEBUNKED since the 80s via blood group studies and especially since the 90s with the advent of DNA population studies disproving the whole notion of 'race'!! Why the f*ck do you keep clinging on to debunked pseudo-science of the 60s??
quote:You are looking at evolution in the complete wrong way. The racial divergences according to the Multiregional model happened millions of years prior to sapienization. The races evolved in parallel lines, with minimal geneflow.
The OOA (Out of Africa) theory is now obsolete, as it predicted no admixture or regional archaics evolving into sapiens, instead it predicted a single source of sapienization, and then full replacement. What we now know though is that races have different archaic DNA, so its been disproven that everyone just evolved from a single African source. For example, Caucasoids have Neanderthal genes, while Negroids don't..
ROTFLMAOH
It's the other way around: Genetic studies proving the OOA (Out of African) single origin of humans as FACT has made the notion of 'race's and racial divergence obsolete!! And genetic studies as they advance everyday only verifies OOA and debunks 'race' more and more! LOL You are the dumbest, most scientifically ignorant, buffoon of Anglo or any ancestry, I have conversed with online!! I mean seriously, even the religious nuts who don't believe in evolution have the excuse of not reading or understanding the science. YOU have obviously read and familiarized yourself with science studies but choose to favor older debunked studies over newer valid ones!! And this is what makes you the Anglo-IDIOT!!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidiot: Ethiopians/Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
A variant of one of the main genes associated with light skin in many West Eurasian populations (including European) is found at a moderate frequency range of 10%-30% in the Horn populations.
"Skin pigmentation is one of the most recognizable human phenotypes and tends to vary on a latitudinal cline, even within Europe. The derived alleles of missense SNPs in SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and SLC45A2 (rs16891982) have both been implicated in light skin pigmentation among Europeans. We have collected data for these markers from 4474 individuals in 107 population samples. The derived alleles of both SNPs were observed at high frequencies throughout Europe, though the derived allele of rs16891982 is found at lower frequencies in Southern Europe. The derived allele of rs1426654 was also found at moderate to high frequencies 2 to 100% in East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia, whereas the derived allele of rs16891982 was seen at frequencies of 0 to 58% in these populations. At SLC24A5 a single allele of a 13-SNP (including rs1426654) haplotype covering ~146 kb accounts for ~95% of the chromosomes in Europe. At SLC45A2, we saw no significant LD around rs16891982. Using the REHH test, we found strong evidence of selection for the derived allele of rs1426654 in Europe as well as East Africa, Southwest Asia, and Central Asia where it had not previously been seen and were able to confirm the evidence of selection in East Africa using nHS. We saw no or very weak evidence of selection for rs1689192 using REHH or nHS among European and nearby populations.'' -- Evidence of selection in the pigmentation genes SLC24A5 in Europeans, East Africans, and Southwest and Central Asians and SLC45A2 in East Asians and Native Americans; M. P. Donnelly, W. C. Speed, A. J. Pakstis, J. R. Kidd, K. K. Kidd.
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
Mixed European-Somalis also come out basically Caucasoid -
If the Somalis were Negroid, then mixed European-Somalis would not come out looking Caucasoid.
The fact Somali-Europeans come out looking Caucasoid is undeniable evidence that Somali's are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
If all of this is true (which it is NOT), then why do all Ethiopian and Somali mixes with Asians also come out Asian looking??
Ethiopian/Taiwanese
Somali/Indonesian
Eritrean/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Somali/Filipina
Perhaps East Africans are also 'Mongoloid'-mixed as well and these people above look totally Asian because of the 'Mongoloid' genes already inherent in East Africans! LOL
And what about West African mixes?
This actor looks very "Caucasian" although his mother is British, his father is Ghanian (West African).
What are we to make of all these holes in your arguments?
Hey Idiot, you forgot my query above.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: 1) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa?
2) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa and no North African ancestry?
These are trick questions because there is no such thing as "caucasian", thus it all depends what one means by "caucasian". By the way, in your second question, why do you distinguish North Africa from the rest of Africa? You realize that African populations cannot be divided into North and 'Sub-Sahara'. As a perfect example of this, yes indeed there were skulls found in Sub-Sahara as far south as Tanzania that have been labeled as "caucasian" in the past. What do you then make of this?
Speaking of which...
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Idiot: Capoids (Bushmen) originated in North and East Africa, but were pushed south by Caucasoids during the Mesolithic.
Really?? North and East Africa was predominated by 'Capoids' but then they were all displaced or as you say "pushed south" by Caucasoids. This then brings us back to the very topic of this thread, which is Oshun's query of **where is the evidence of this massive influx of "Caucasoids"??** And influx from where??
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
^ What is with this trope that Bushman-looking people ever lived north of the Tropic of Capricorn, let alone demographically dominated East Africa prior to the Bantu expansion?
Here's a Hadza from East Africa. The Hadza are neither Bantu nor Nilo-Saharan and in all probability represent aboriginal East Africans, and yet they don't look like South African San or Khoikhoi:
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Correct. Though some things the Hadze share in common with the Khoisan are that they speak click languages as well (though unrelated to Khoisan tongues) and many also have spiral-tuft i.e. 'pepper-corn' hair texture. They also share some very old genetic clades. The Khoisan, however have been living in their present range for many tens of millennia and are no more related to the Hadze as Central Africans are.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids. The mutation occurred about 12k years ago. Look how recent Negroid skulls are -
''A human burial described as "proto-Negroid" was found at the base of the succession at Iwo Eleru with a date of 11200 ± 200 BP.'' (Allsworth-Jones, 2002)
''A single human skeleton some 12,000 years old from the lowest level of Iwo Eleru has been described as already showing specifically negroid features....'' (Phillipson, 2005)
12k only. Yet the Afronuts think the whole world mutated from them.
1) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa?
2) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa and no North African ancestry?
if you are uncertain please let us know
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
^ What is with this trope that Bushman-looking people ever lived north of the Tropic of Capricorn, let alone demographically dominated East Africa prior to the Bantu expansion?
quote:Originally posted by Thought2:
Coon indicated that North Africa was at one time peopled by a large Khosian type. He proposed that these large Khosian types were replaced by "Hamitic Caucasians". We now know that the more likely scenario is that these so-called "large Khosian types" adapted to the fluctuations of the Holocene sahara, morphing into the more elongated phenotype we find through-out the Sahel/Sahara belt. This may explain why we find 'proto-Khosian-Negroid' types in LSA East Africa and "Hamitic Caucasians" in Neolithic East Africa. These so-called "Hamitic Caucasians" correspond with the spread of Nilo-Saharan speaking Cattle, goat and sheep herders into the African Rift Valley circa 4000 ky. The early spread of this 'proto-Khosian-Negroid' type reached the circum-Mediterranean basin along with the E3b Y-Chromosome lineages.
Coon believed that Caucasians were the first humans to evolve.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
Correct. He believed that humans evolved independantly from 5 separate pre-human ancestors, and that whites evolved 1st and most.
This is just an extention of Blumenbachs view who invented the notion of caucasian based on just such an assumption.
This is known as polygenesis: multiple origins. ie - 5 different species evolve towards one species
Also, If I'm not mistaken Dr. Winters believes that Khoisans were pushed out of Africa into Eurasia
Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
Unless Anglo-troll can prove that the Horn of Africa and Northeast African all conformed to the true Negro stereotype without any variation before so called "Caucasoids" invaded and spread these traits he has no argument, but to prove that he would have to also prove where these incoming "caucasoids" came from and prove that they looked that way since he is likely basing his premise off of what present day people look like. In fact Africans were even more diverse back then as opposed to now meaning these traits were already in Africa before any documented migrations from Eurasia so the troll has failed.
Ethiopians and Somalis also cluster in craniometrics with Southern Europeans and Western Asians (Caucasoids) not Negroids.
"The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies(Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe."
^^^190 kya.
Euros werent needed to give East Africans their appearance. You cant argue Negroids are a recent and then speculate that East African appearances relied on MIXING with Euros.
So this could indicate that the tropical adapted cro-magnon came from that particular region.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
^ What is with this trope that Bushman-looking people ever lived north of the Tropic of Capricorn, let alone demographically dominated East Africa prior to the Bantu expansion?
quote:Originally posted by Thought2:
Coon indicated that North Africa was at one time peopled by a large Khosian type. He proposed that these large Khosian types were replaced by "Hamitic Caucasians". We now know that the more likely scenario is that these so-called "large Khosian types" adapted to the fluctuations of the Holocene sahara, morphing into the more elongated phenotype we find through-out the Sahel/Sahara belt. This may explain why we find 'proto-Khosian-Negroid' types in LSA East Africa and "Hamitic Caucasians" in Neolithic East Africa. These so-called "Hamitic Caucasians" correspond with the spread of Nilo-Saharan speaking Cattle, goat and sheep herders into the African Rift Valley circa 4000 ky. The early spread of this 'proto-Khosian-Negroid' type reached the circum-Mediterranean basin along with the E3b Y-Chromosome lineages.
Coon believed that Caucasians were the first humans to evolve.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
Correct. He believed that humans evolved independantly from 5 separate pre-human ancestors, and that whites evolved 1st and most.
This is just an extention of Blumenbachs view who invented the notion of caucasian based on just such an assumption.
This is known as polygenesis: multiple origins. ie - 5 different species evolve towards one species
Also, If I'm not mistaken Dr. Winters believes that Khoisans were pushed out of Africa into Eurasia
I don't think the Khoisan were pushed out of Africa. I believe they were the dominant group 40-45kya and they simply migrated across the Straits of Gibraltar into Iberia and thence across Europe.
.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB]
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: No Cassi, you said negroid was a recent mutation. So populations that are considered "Negroids" had to come FROM Caucasoid populations in order for this to make sense.
Negroids mutated from West African Pygmies, not Caucasoids.
"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
Highly doubt they came from pygmies. What evidence do you have to support they came from pygmies specifically.
^^THe idiot is still pushing this bogus claim which has already been thoroughly debunked. A recap of the idiots ass whupping is shown below.
As for Ethiopians, no one disputes recent Arab mixture or other recent mixture, but even with all this, the core fundamental African population remains, and Y-chromosome data show clustering with African groups.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] E1b1b is not Negroid.
Read it an weep -
''Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.” - Fulvio Cruciani et al, Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa, Am. J. Hum. Genet, p. 74)
The foul faker doctored the quote not knowing the article has been much discussed at ES. Testifying even more to his incompetence, Cruciani actually does show E3b or E1b1b occuring in numerous places within "sub-Saharan" Africa. The three main subclades of haplogroup E3b (E-M78, E-M81, and E-M34) and the paragroup E-M35* are not homogeneously distributed on the African continent: E-M78 has been observed in both northern and eastern Africa, E-M81 is restricted t o northern Africa, E-M34 is common only in eastern Africa, and E-M35* is shared by eastern and southern Africans (Cruciani et al. 2002)" --Cruciani
And there is no "page 74" in the Cruciani article. THE FAKER AND BUFFOON IS AGAIN BUSTED IN A LIE!
THE FAKER'S BOGUS CLAIM PART- 15 - QUOTE: [QUOTE]Originally posted by cassiterides/AngloIdiot: posted 14 January, 2012 11:41 AM If you are a white heterosexual male in Britain you have virtually zero chance of getting a job. All the jobs go to blacks or other immigrants.
^^LOL - Idiotic nonsense. As of 2001, 92.1% of the UK population identified themselves as White, leaving 7.9%[270] of the UK population identifying themselves as mixed race or of an ethnic minority. The population of the United Kingdom in the 2001 census was 58,789,194, UK Office for National Statistics- 2001.
That leaves approx 54 million white people. About 33% of that population were adult men. Let's take away 8% or so for minorities. So you are saying then that 25% of the approx 54 million white people in the UK are all unemployed? Damn you are dumb, but you only expose the bankruptcy of your racism.
The Fake C-Ass -Hole exposed PART 14 - BOGUS "NORDIC BLONDS FLITTING AROUND EGYPT
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cassiterides/AngloIdiot: posted 29 December, 2011 06:05 AM
Hetepheres II was a blonde
^^Hapless dullard, you are exposed in another lie. Your own reference was checked. It yielded detailed citations which revealed a quite different story. Scholars say in the mainstream Cambridge Ancient History:
"We must give up the idea that she was of Libyan origin, an attractive theory which was based on blond hair of Hetepheres II, who was then thought to be her daughter. It is now evident that the yellow wig is part of a costume worn b other great ladies." --I. Edwards, C. Gadd, N. Hammond. 1971. The Cambridge Ancient History. 3ed Volume 1, Part 2, Early History of the Middle East
Yet another history says: "The walls of this interior room are decorated with hunting and fishing scenes, including a charming image of Meresankh and her mother, Hetepheres II picking lotus flowers from the river.. The pillars have images of Meresankh wearing a blond wig." --P. Lacovara. 2004. The pyramids and the SPhinx: tombs and temples of GIza
THE FAKER EXPOSED- PART 13- HIS BOGUS CLAIM OF "NORDIC" EGYPTIAN ROYALTY
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides/AngloIdiot: posted 28 December, 2011 05:40 PM Early dynastic & old kingdom royalty was Nordic (blonde and fair skinned)
^^^Ha hahahahah you stupid mass of camel vomit! Up above you reference scholar Frank Yurco, but here is what Yurco said about the 12th Dynasty, debunking your claim of "Nordic" Egyptian royalty. You dumbass.... You are again debunked, with your own "supporting" references... lmao...
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne... Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
THE FAKER EXPOSED- PART 12 HE says Egyptologists like Frank Yurco says the Egyptians were "Caucasoid" --- "Virtually every egyptologist believes the egyptians were Caucasoid" --
BUt Yurco says nothing of the sort.. Here for example, is what he says about the 12the Dynasty rulers aho were Nubian descent: They seem really "Caucasoid"... yeah, right.. - quote-
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne... Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989) -
Another dodge is to twist an old chat/forum discussion statement by conservative Egyptologist Frank Yurco out of context. Yurco rejected those who "a priori" claimed the Egyptians were "black", that is, a dogmatic claim without presenting empirical evidence. He never rejected reasonable argument with data showing the Egyptians were an indigenous African population -QUOTE: .. basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times.. (Yurco 1996- An Egyptological Review, in Black Athena Revisited)
The Faker exposed- part 11
quote: Originally posted by cassiterides/AngloIdiot: ^You claim Vanessa Williams is a black woman when her heritage is white welsh and native american
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ^ Eurafrican is Caucasoid.
^^You are once again exposed. You said EurAfrican is Caucasoid, and cited Serti in support. But using your own citation any reader can see that Sergi considers EurAfricans to be an amalgamation or mixture of many types, directly contradicting your claim.
SErgi says: QUOTE: "This human species, with cranial and facial characters thus well determined, I call Eurafrican; and this because, having had its origin in Africa, where it is still represented by many peoples, it has been diffused from prehistoric times in Europe... The Eurafrican species thus falls into three races: the African, with red-brown and black pigmentation.. Thus the Mediterranean stock is a race or variety of the Eurafrican species." --G. Sergi
You have again failed and are once again exposed. ------------------------------------------------------------
THE FAKER EXPOSED PART 9- HE CLAIMS ALL THESE HIGGINS "DISTORTIONS" BUT WHEN ASKED TO NAME THE SPECIFIC WEBSITES OF THIS ALLEGED "AFROCENTRIC' HORROR, HE RUNS AWAY. WHY IS THAT FAKER?
In fact, Godfrey Higgins ALSO says this about "negroes"
quote: "I believe all the Blavk bambinos of Italy are negroes- not merely blacks; this admitted, it would prove they very early date of their entrance into Italy." pg 286 pg 434 "the ancient Eturians had the countenances of Negroes, the same as the images of Buddah in INdia." pg 166 pg 474- "They aere in fact, all one nation, with one religion, that of Buddah, and they were originally NEgroes" pg 59: "nor can it be reasonably doubted, that a race of Negroes formerly had power and pre-eminence in India" pg 59- AS TO ETHIOPIA: And it is probable that an Ethiopian, a negro, correctly speaking, may have been meant, not merely a black person; and it seems probable that the following may have ben the real fact, viz, that a race of NEgroes or Blacks, but probably of the former, came to India to the west."
cASSIRETEDES own source debunks him. Note the footnote by his own author- QUOTE: "may not have been Negroes, though Blacks, though it is probably they were so."
His own source says they may not have been Negroes then adds: THOUGH IT IS PROBABLY THEY WERE SO."
^The Faker once again, debunks himself. And he seems not to realize that Ethiopia is in "sub-Saharan" Africa.. lol.. pathetic incompetent..
And he never shows these massive number of websites "all over the internet". Like what? How many? If they are "all over" then he should at least be able to give direct links to 6 showing pages where the "Afrocentrics: are "distorting" Higgins work. LEt's say what the faker has besides hot air. Post DIRECT LINKS to 6 of the huge number of alleged "Afrocentric" websites where the Afrocentrics are "distorting" Higgins. SHow how they are distorting Higgins with specific quotes and specific context.
Watch the Faker duck and run when he is again called on a claim, or make up yet another lie to cover his exposure... -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE FAKER EXPOSED- part 8:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo-Pyr/Cassiredes: "Fair hair and light eyes colours are only found among Caucasoids, esp of Europe."
But then, in your own thread, by your own hand, you present a picture of an African albino that has pale skin, light brown or hazel eyes and fair hair. You said it was impossible, but then debunk yourself with your own posted picture.. This is like the 8-9th time you keep tripping over yourself with lies, contradictions, and bogus claims.
RECAP The Faker exposed- part 7 Originally posted by Anglo-Pyr/Cassiredes: "Fair hair and light eyes colours are only found among Caucasoids, esp of Europe."
^^Your claim is is completely bogus. Native diversity or albinism causes some tropical Africans to have light eyes and light hair. You fail againn..
================================================
THE ANGLO-Idiot FAKER EXPOSED: PART 6 1-- ^^Faker! In your initial posts you claimed that it was Cavalli-Sforza talking 'bout negroes "mutating" from Pygmies. Now in your "corrected" post, YOU STILL APPEAR A FAKE. You now remove Cavalli- Sforza's name on the "mutant" claim, admitting that you were lying all along! Bwa ha aha a hah a ha ahahaha aha ahah..
2-- Second point- Peter Frost is debunked by Cavalli-Sforza who says as to his so-called "mutation" theory: QUOTE:
"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
Frost mentions Cavalli-Sforza in connection with sexual selection, and movement of some groups from Nigeria-Cameroon to other parts of Africa. He never says Cavalli Sforza talks bout any "negro mutation" and in fact any mutation claim is directly contradicted by Sforza. Sucka, you not only lied bout Cavalli-Sforza, you lied about your own white writer- Peter Frost, and misrepresented him.
THE ANGLO-IDIOT FAKER EXPOSED: PART 6 Anglo-Pyr/CassiREDES says: ''There are then no Australoids with blonde hair past the age of about twenty''
^^LMAO! Totally fake! Credible up to date sources note that blondism is prevalent in early life BUT, contrary to your claim that: "There are then no Australoids with blonde hair past the age of about twenty", the shade of color varies. In maturity the hair usually turns a darker brown color, but sometimes remains blond. See: "Gene Expression: Blonde Australian Aboriginals". Gnxp.com. http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2005/08/blonde-australian-aboriginals.php.
^^Here is one of your Australians over 20 years old who does have blonde hair. YOu are caught out spinning bogus claims AGAIN!. Bwa ha aha a hah a ha ahahaha aha ahah.. -
THE FAKER EXPOSED: PART 5a [b]So where are these tropical african peoples with pale white or fair skin? blonde red hair?
^^You fail again. African populations can readily produce blond or reddish blond hair as noted by hair study author Hrdy 1978 himself, and he references Nubia as an example. Albinism is another source of red or blond hair in Africa, and albinism is much more prevalent in African populations than among Europeans. Even African Americans produce more albinos than white Americans. (The pigmentary system: physiology and pathophysiology- By James J. Nordlund 2006: 603) (E. Roach and V. Miller 2004. Neurocutaneous disorders.) QUOTE: "In general, the prevalence of albinism in Africa is much higher, in the range of 1 in 1 100 to 1 in 3900."
So Africa can and does routinely produce red and blond hair. All non-Africans are MORE LIMITED subsets of ORIGINAL African diversity. THe originals have more built-in diversity than the limited sub-set populations. This is straight science as noted by the quote from TIshkoff 2000.
Nor are Africans the only tropical peoples who can produce reddish hair or blond hair. Among Australian Aborigines, some tropical groups produce 100% of individuals with blond hair. Melanesians can also produce blond or reddish hair, and do so routinely.
White people have no monopoly at all on that hair color. They merely show more of it, but even among whites, red hair for example is minor- occurring in less than 5% of the overall European populations, mostly in northern Europe.
So the claim that there are no tropical Africans with such variation is once again, proved fake. You made the claim.
THE ANGLO-IDIOT FAKER EXPOSED: PART 4 ime and time again, you stand debunked and exposed for falsifying claims and references. Let's recap:
Originally posted by CASSIFAKedes::
quote: The source is Cavalli-Sforza's book on the Pygmies entitled 'African pygmies' (Academic Press, 1986).
This work shows that Negroids mutated from an ancestral pygmy population around 9,000 BC in West Africa. So the 'true' Black African today is a recent mutation. Caucasoids and Mongoloids predate them. [Wink] Negroids only migrated into other parts of Africa during the Bantu expansion or slightly earlier. Prior to them, Caucasoids inhabited North Africa and Bushmen (Capoids) to the south who were displaced by the Caucasoids from the Mediterranean around 12,000 BC.
^^A bogus reference. Why should anyone take your word for it given past bogus references? Quote where Cavalli-Sforza says these so-called "negroids" "mutated" from Pygmies. The burden of proof is on you, since you made the claim.
While you scurry to cover your tracks with yet more bogus claims, Cavali Sforza, in his well known The History and Geography of Human Genes, 1994 Cavalli-Sforza summarizes his 1986 work on Pygmies and specifically debunks the "Pygmy as ancestor" theory held by other older writings. QUOTE:
"It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
SO much for your lying claims of "mutations" from "Pygymy" ancestors. In short, you lied about Cavalli-Sforza, creating a falsified claim and a bogus "supporting" reference to a claim that is nowhere supported in his work. You are once again exposed as yet another racist faker You are not fooling anyone.
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THE ANGLO-IDIOT FAKER EXPOSED-PART 3- YOu then tried to cover up your lie with even more bogus nformation and STILL fail
You "modified" your Cavalli Sforza claim by including page numbers, and then changing some wording to "adaptive radiation" hoping to divert attention from your exposure.. lmao..
However pages 361-362 of Cavalli Sforza's 1986 book says absolutely nothing about any Negroes "mutating" from pygmies, nor any "adaptive radiation." It merely discusses Pygmy history and geography. You picked out a page at random, not knowing it can be verified via Google Books. You were asked to provide a direct quote but are still running. Now why is that?
""It remains difficult to pinpoint an ancient place of origin for the Negroid type which includes all West, Central and South Africans. Contrary to many earlier opinions, modern Pygmies and Khosians are not good candidates for a proto-African population."
--Cavalli Sforza et al, 1994. The history and geography of human genes. 194
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THE ANGLO-IDIOT FAKER EXPOSED- PART 2 And Your pathetic "modification" STILL turned out to be bogus. You then said:
"True" Black Africans appear as a recent adaptive radiation apparently branching off from an ancestral Pygmy population — a line of ancestry also indicated by osteological data (Coon 1962:651-656; Watson et al. 1996).
^^But in fact, Watson 1996 has nothing to do with osteological data and does not even mention it. It has to do with mtDNA.
----------------------------------------
THE ANGLO-IDIOT FAKER EXPOSED- PART 1C YOU THEN PROFFERED ANOTHER FAKE CLAIM BELOW: He says:
quote: "Note that in the Old Testament the Danites are the only Hebrew people described as being maritime and associated with ships.."
^^Complete Nonsense. In the Old Testament, the tribe of Zebulun is mentioned as specifically associated with ships and maritime elements. QUOTE:
Genesis 49:13 "Zebulun will dwell at the shore of the seas; Yea, he will be at the shore of the ships, And his side toucheth upon Sidon. "
Anglo-Pyr/Cassi-Fakdes: MULTIPLE TIMES AT BAT, MULTIPLE EXPOSURES AS A FAKE...
--fake claim that no Australian Abo over 20 is blonde
-- fake claim that NO tropical Africans have any diversity in hair, skin or eye color
-- fake Cavalli-Sforza citation
-- 2nd fake Cavalli-Sforza reference
-- Faked Watson reference
-- Faked Biblical reference
-- FAke representation of Peter Frost's work
-- Fake claim that "studies" say "egyptians were dark are not like 'light-skinned Europeans". COnveniently, the alleged study is missing..
--Fake Higgins claims
--Fake claim that Guiseppe Sergi's EurAfrican race concept is negro-free
--Fake claim that Vanessa Williams has no black ancestry but is "white and Indian"
--Fake claim that Egyptologists like Yurco consider the Egyptians "Caucasoid"
--Fake claim of white Nordic Egyptian royalty
--Fake claim of "blond" Hetepheres
--Fake claim of white males in BRitain "unable to get jobs"
--fAKE Crucuiani "quote" with "citation"
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Stop reposting the same citations!! Most of these have already been responded to by ES!
quote:Wilson JF, Weale ME, Smith AC, et al. Population genetic structure of variable drug response. Nat Genet. Nov 2001;29(3):265-269.
"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."
(Passarino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1998)
quote:Poloni ES, Semino O, Passarino G, et al. Human genetic affinities for Y-chromosome P49a,f/TaqI haplotypes show strong correspondence with linguistics. Am J Hum Genet. Nov 1997;61(5):1015-1035. Poloni
Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, et al. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. Jun 6 2000;97(12):6769-6774.
quote: Lovell A, Moreau C, Yotova V, et al. Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and western Eurasia. Ann Hum Genet. May 2005;69(Pt 3):275-287. Lovell
Plus these implications remain. Ethiopians aren't cold adapted and hairy. Let alone extensive hairy. The are the opposite of these Eurasians.lol
The claim on Somalis is even funnier. Remember how lioness posted two studies which showed completely different frequencies and how these papers contradicted one another. lol
Somalis are in general 90% African and 10% foreign admixed due to the Islamic expansion. Which explains why they are tropical adapted in limb portions, with less to no body hair.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL So many claims debunked, yet he keeps repeating these same claims.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: 1) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa?
2) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa and no North African ancestry?
These are trick questions because there is no such thing as "caucasian", thus it all depends what one means by "caucasian". By the way, in your second question, why do you distinguish North Africa from the rest of Africa? You realize that African populations cannot be divided into North and 'Sub-Sahara'. As a perfect example of this, yes indeed there were skulls found in Sub-Sahara as far south as Tanzania that have been labeled as "caucasian" in the past. What do you then make of this?
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Djehuti, Capoids (Khoisans) are heavily Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixed like the Beja. This admixture is not recent (for example its not from European colonisation admixture).
''..the intermediacy of the Khoisan, which could be described as part African and part West Asian. A possible explanation is that earlier Khoisans inhabited another region...where hybridization occurred.'' (Cavalli-Sforza, 1994: 193)
This hybridization only could have occurred if the Capoids existed once in a widespread area - North and East Africa as Cavalli-Sforza (Ibid.) discusses.
Like the Beja, 30% of their genes are Eurasian.
They are heavily Caucasoid admixed.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Djehuti, Capoids (Khoisans) are heavily Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixed like the Beja. This admixture is not recent (for example its not from European colonisation admixture).
''..the intermediacy of the Khoisan, which could be described as part African and part West Asian. A possible explanation is that earlier Khoisans inhabited another region...where hybridization occurred.'' (Cavalli-Sforza, 1994: 193)
But you said the Capoids were there before the Euros and the Euros pushed them further south. But if the Capoids were already there before the Euros showed up it makes no sense to suggest their "intermediate" position is cause of hybridization.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
We still haven't seen evidence of mass migration by cold adapted exstensive Eurasians into all these places.
Only some rubbish claims.
Also Bejas aren't over all admixed. The admixture is predomantly with related people from Yemen, this is history attests. Not Eurasians or people from the Caucasus mountain region.
If Bejas were mixed so everly with cold adapted extensive hairy Eurasian how come we don't find these traits in Bejas?lol
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Djehuti, Capoids (Khoisans) are heavily Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixed like the Beja. This admixture is not recent (for example its not from European colonisation admixture).
''..the intermediacy of the Khoisan, which could be described as part African and part West Asian. A possible explanation is that earlier Khoisans inhabited another region...where hybridization occurred.'' (Cavalli-Sforza, 1994: 193)
But you said the Capoids were there before the Euros and the Euros pushed them further south. But if the Capoids were already there before the Euros showed up it makes no sense to suggest their "intermediate" position is cause of hybridization.
Uhmmm yeaahh but.....
Most people don't know that is snows at the tip of South Africa. And it's also close to the South Pole.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL So many claims debunked, yet he keeps repeating these same claims.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: 1) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa?
2) If a skull found in Africa is determined to be "Caucasian" is it possible that it was from a person with no ancestry external to Africa and no North African ancestry?
These are trick questions because there is no such thing as "caucasian", thus it all depends what one means by "caucasian". By the way, in your second question, why do you distinguish North Africa from the rest of Africa? You realize that African populations cannot be divided into North and 'Sub-Sahara'. As a perfect example of this, yes indeed there were skulls found in Sub-Sahara as far south as Tanzania that have been labeled as "caucasian" in the past. What do you then make of this?
Yes, not only debunked. But the explanation is not given why the people aren't cold adapted or slightly to cold adapted. And the extensive hair trait lacks in these Africans too.
It's simple, because they lie!
I know people of Eurasian descent. And they are hairy, extensive hairy.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ I'm of north-western European Caucasoid descent, and have zero body hair.
According to this study:
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982
13% of Caucasoids have minimal to no body hair.
So over 1/10 Caucasoids is not hairy.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Piss Pot: ^ I'm of north-western European Caucasoid descent, and have zero body hair.
According to this study:
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982
13% of Caucasoids have minimal to no body hair.
So over 1/10 Caucasoids is not hairy.
^I don't give a sh*t where you're from. You took that garbage quote straight from a wiki page. Which is about chest hair anyway. Not the over all body.
However, Eurasian and Meds are very hairy, over all. Get over it!!
lol at the lies scams and plots. All that is left now is lie over another lie.
Remember this one?
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Troll Patrol, the most physical diversity is in the Caucasoid race. In body hair (like hair, skin and eye colour) they have the most diversity.
Body hair of all different patterns can be found in the Caucasoid race.
Here is one of the only studies done to date -
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982.
1100 men studied.
In this study, 56% were discovered to have abundant body hair (Pattern 4). 31% were discovered to have medium body hair (Patterns 2 and 3) and 7% little body hair (Pattern 1).
6% in the study were shown to have ZERO body hair.
Here is what the Patterns look like:
The Caucasoid race has all 4 types, as well as a small minority (6%) having no body hair at all. Negroids and Mongoloids in contrast don't have such diversity.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
AFRICANS AREN'T HAIRY, WITH THE EXCEPTION FOR COASTAL AFRICANS, PARTICULARLY LIVING AT THE MEDITERRANEAN COAST!
Whether a man is hairy or sports a chest as smooth as an egg depends on the genes he inherits from his parents and his ethnic group...
Mediterranean men have more chest hair than northern white Europeans, while Asian and African men tend to be less hirsute.
Some researchers say body hair keeps us warm. Others even claim that it acts as a signal of virility to prospective mates — like a stag’s antlers or peacock’s feathers, it signals to females that its owner is fit, strong and healthy.
The flaw with that last argument is that chest hair is not a particularly useful signal. For a significant number of women find the prospect of running their hands through a thick carpet of wiry hair a turn-off.
I’m a Mediterranean. I’m hairyish. It’s very rare that you find a Mediterranean guy that isn’t. From my chest down to my legs, the growth is fairly consistent. We’re not talking a thick hairy pelt that could see me confused for a gorilla, nor ridiculously hairy arms like Robin Williams. But I’m hairy, like a pre-Daniel Craig James Bond.
Oh, do put it away, Simon! (The chest hair, that is... you only flash it to prove you're a dominant male)
By David Derbyshire UPDATED: 09:31 GMT, 7 February 2012
Simon Cowell is not a man to let a few inches of snow get in the way of a fashion statement. So it should have come as no surprise to see The X Factor boss on the coldest day of the year with his shirt unbuttoned and his luxuriant chest hair on display yet again.
Cowell’s trimmed fuzz feels like a familiar friend these days. In the past year it’s been paraded on the seafront in Nice, flaunted alongside bikini-clad beauties in Barbados and glimpsed by millions of viewers on Britain’s Got Talent. Given that Cowell is a man who claims to be in touch with what the British public wants, what on earth possesses him to flash his hairy chest at every opportunity?
Cold front: Simon Cowell braving the London snow on Saturday Not least because, these days, most men who flaunt their chests display considerably less hair. Rarely a day goes by without David Beckham’s polished torso making an appearance on a billboard or in a magazine shoot, while fans of the scripted reality show The Only Way Is Essex regularly watch grown men discussing the merits of chest and back waxing without any irony.
So how did British men become so vain about their chests?
For all its celebrity prominence, chest hair remains a poorly understood part of the male body. It appears late on in adolescence when its growth is triggered by a chemical called dihydrotestosterone, a male sex hormone created when testosterone is broken down in the body.
The same hormone is responsible for male pattern baldness. Whether a man is hairy or sports a chest as smooth as an egg depends on the genes he inherits from his parents and his ethnic group.
Mediterranean men have more chest hair than northern white Europeans, while Asian and African men tend to be less hirsute.
Although scientists are unsure why we have chest hair, most agree it is leftover from our days as hairy ape-men living in African forests millions of years ago. They don’t know why most men have kept their hairy chests, legs and backs.
Some researchers say body hair keeps us warm. Others even claim that it acts as a signal of virility to prospective mates — like a stag’s antlers or peacock’s feathers, it signals to females that its owner is fit, strong and healthy.
The flaw with that last argument is that chest hair is not a particularly useful signal. For a significant number of women find the prospect of running their hands through a thick carpet of wiry hair a turn-off.
One of the few scientific studies into chest hair, by Dr Markus Rantala of the University of Turku, Finland, involved women being shown pictures of a male torso from the waist to the neck, before and after he had shaved his chest hair.
Get the rug out: (Left) Cowell leaves Mr Chow's Restaurant in London and (right) on holiday in St Barts
Hirsute: (Left) Leaving the VIP Room in St Tropez, France and (right) on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno
Hair we go again: (left) Exposing his notorious waistline and (right) after a trim on a jet ski while on Christmas Eve in Barbados
Overall, the Finnish women found the smooth chest more attractive. However, older women preferred the hairy chest. Both groups tended to prefer men who most closely resembled their boyfriends or husbands.
When similar studies were carried out in the UK, however, British women preferred hairier chests. In a survey in 2010 of 3,000 women, 85 per cent said they preferred a Seventies-style chest rug and hairy legs to a shaven torso.
Preferences for hairy chests don’t just change from country to country. They have also altered through history.
Classical statues of men suggest that the Ancient Romans and Greeks liked hairless male bodies. Priests in Ancient Egypt had to be completely hairless, and would scrape themselves with pumice stones and knives.
The hairy chest’s heyday was the Sixties and Seventies, when trendy nightspots were packed with ‘medallion men’, who wore their shirts unbuttoned to the navel, doused with Old Spice and accessorised with a chunky necklace — in the belief that a thick thatch would have women swooning. In the intervening years, popular tastes have moved back to less hairy sex symbols. Today’s James Bond, Daniel Craig, was as smooth as Ursula Andress when he emerged from the sea in Casino Royale. The rise of the shaven-chested celebrity has fuelled an industry in male waxing and hair removal. According to the London-based Harley Medical Group, demand for laser hair removal on the chest area is up 22 per cent this year.
So if many women aren’t interested in chest hair — and plenty of men are shaving it off — can showing off your chest hair really be a signal of virility?
There’s certainly no evidence linking body hair to aggression, strength or fertility — all male traits associated with high testosterone levels. ‘Whether a woman likes a hairy chest may depend on her experiences growing up,’ said Dr Nick Neave, a psychologist at Northumbria University.
‘We know women are strongly influenced by the way their father looked. So if a woman’s first experience of a man is a father with a hairy chest, she may use that as a template.’ So why do so many men insist on shaving off their hairy chests? Part of the vogue for smooth chests may lie in the culture of body building. Since the early days of muscle men, weightlifters have shaved their body hair to show off their toned muscles fully.
Once men get sucked into the culture of gyms and body building, the idea of removing body hair doesn’t feel so odd. Other men simply shave their chests in response to changing fashions.
And those who choose to flaunt their chest hair? Dr Neave believes the displays may not be designed to attract women, but to show dominance to other men.
‘Females have an odd view of males,’ he said. ‘They want them to be masculine, but not too masculine. In the animal kingdom, male bodies have evolved not just to attract females but to fight off other males.
‘So when you walk around with the top of a hairy chest showing, you may not be sending a signal to women but telling other males “I’m in charge here and I’m the boss.”
If Dr Neave is right, then it explains Cowell’s love of low-slung shirts even in freezing February. After all, a famous multi- millionaire doesn’t need to try too hard to attract women — but might enjoy reminding other men who is top dog.
But after so many glimpses of the Cowell thatch, I think we’ve all got the message. Next time, Simon, wear a vest.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Djehuti, Capoids (Khoisans) are heavily Eurasian (Caucasoid) admixed like the Beja. This admixture is not recent (for example its not from European colonisation admixture).
''..the intermediacy of the Khoisan, which could be described as part African and part West Asian. A possible explanation is that earlier Khoisans inhabited another region...where hybridization occurred.'' (Cavalli-Sforza, 1994: 193)
But you said the Capoids were there before the Euros and the Euros pushed them further south. But if the Capoids were already there before the Euros showed up it makes no sense to suggest their "intermediate" position is cause of hybridization.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Idiot: ^ I'm of north-western European Caucasoid descent, and have zero body hair.
According to this study:
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982
13% of Caucasoids have minimal to no body hair.
So over 1/10 Caucasoids is not hairy.
Yes, and this means 87% or less than 9/10 of so-called "Caucasoids" DO have medium to heavy body hair! Which again proves Troll Patrol's point!
Damn for a member of the superior caca-soid race you sure are slow-witted. You are definitely a discredit to your 'race'. LOL Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Idiot: ^ I'm of north-western European Caucasoid descent, and have zero body hair.
According to this study:
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982
13% of Caucasoids have minimal to no body hair.
So over 1/10 Caucasoids is not hairy.
Yes, and this means 87% or less than 9/10 of so-called "Caucasoids" DO have medium to heavy body hair! Which again proves Troll Patrol's point!
Damn for a member of the superior caca-soid race you sure are slow-witted. You are definitely a discredit to your 'race'. LOL
Its a bullshit claim, look up my response.
It's actually 6%.
However, these are not the populations (Eurasians and Meds) they claim who have mixed extensively with East Africans.
And logicly there is still no prove and evidence of a mass migratin by cold adapted Eurasians into East Africa.
It simply did not occur.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ 13/100 is a high amount.
Considering there are 50,000,000 people classified as ''White British'' (North-Western Caucasoid) on the last census, 5 million have no body hair (like myself).
In Europe, Western Asia and North Africa, the figure of Caucasoids is obviously far greater.
Hundreds of millions of Caucasoids have no body hair.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982.
1100 men studied.
In this study, 56% were discovered to have abundant body hair (Pattern 4). 31% were discovered to have medium body hair (Patterns 2 and 3) and 7% little body hair (Pattern 1).
6% in the study were shown to have ZERO body hair.
Here is what the Patterns look like:
The Caucasoid race has all 4 types, as well as a small minority (6%) having no body hair at all. Negroids and Mongoloids in contrast don't have such diversity.
-- Once again the Caucasoid race has the most diversity - as we do in hair colour, eye colour, skin pigmentation and so on.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Piss Pot: ^ 13/100 is a high amount.
Considering there are 50,000,000 people classified as ''White British'' (North-Western Caucasoid) on the last census, 5 million have no body hair (like myself).
In Europe, Western Asia and North Africa, the figure of Caucasoids is obviously far greater.
Hundreds of millions of Caucasoids have no body hair.
It's 6/100.
Plus North Africa is not caucasiod or even remotely the Caucasus. Most North Africans are full lipped with snub-noses., with Afro texture hair (big or tiny curls).
But the fact remains that Meds and Eurasian are very hairy and cold adapted too.
The facts are on the table.lol
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Piss Pot: Setty, LR (1961). "The distribution of chest hair in Caucasoid males". American journal of physical anthropology 19: 285–7. doi:10.1002/ajpa.1330190309. PMID 13910982.
1100 men studied.
In this study, 56% were discovered to have abundant body hair (Pattern 4). 31% were discovered to have medium body hair (Patterns 2 and 3) and 7% little body hair (Pattern 1).
6% in the study were shown to have ZERO body hair.
Here is what the Patterns look like:
The Caucasoid race has all 4 types, as well as a small minority (6%) having no body hair at all. Negroids and Mongoloids in contrast don't have such diversity.
-- Once again the Caucasoid race has the most diversity - as we do in hair colour, eye colour, skin pigmentation and so on.
Sorry for you, but modern studies say something else.
Africans are most diverse. In phenotype and genotype.
It's only you a pseudo who thinks its not so.
Africans comprise within the same genetic PN2 basal clade. And other parental clades. Making them more diverse than anyone else. You yourself stated that Europeans are fiscally most homogeneous, you Idiot.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ African is a geographic term, not a race.
Racially Caucasoids have the most physical diversity, while Negroids have the least.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
^ The Caucus is a geographical term not a race. May as well concede that people dont need mixing with Euros since you admit the "admixed" group was there before Euros showed up...
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Caucasoid (Caucasian) is not a geographical term, it is a race.
Caucasoids have the most phenotype diversity from skin pigmentation, hair colour etcetc. While Negroids have the least.
Little selective pressures acted on Negroids, while the most acted on Caucasoids. Negroid or 'Black' women look like Negroid men, that's how little phenotype diversity they have. There is very little sexual dimorophism in Negroids, all that happened is that Negroid women developed fat on the buttocks.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
I don't believe in races personally. Caucaus is a geographical region, and NO people dont have to mix with Euros to get features YOU decided were from that area. And albinism/partial albinism accounts for much of your phenotypical diversity as and ours. TBH even if you did have much more Im fine with the wealth of genetic diversity we got.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
In fact European men seem to be the only men that have a lot of body hair. I would attribute that to cold adaptation, but paradoxically the hairiest men of all are supposedly Mediterranean rather than Northern Europeans, and otherwise cold-adapted Amero-Asians (my new word for so-called "Mongoloids") have little body hair like Africans. Anyone got an hypothesis explaining this?
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ^ African is a geographic term, not a race.
Racially Caucasoids have the most physical diversity, while Negroids have the least.
Sh*t, how come you are his dumb? The basal in Africans shows that race doesn't exist. This is why scientist say Africans are most diverse. You dumbass.
We have explained this dozens of times to you. But you simply can't grasp it.
The Caucasus is a region from where caucasians came.
Africa is not the Caucasus. Europeans carry sub clades not parent clades like Africans. You dumbass.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [QB] I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
No its not a recent mutation. Some Australoids are very hairy. Furthermore African Pygmies (Bambutids) are also hairy, ranging from light to abundant. Its not only Caucasoid Europeans who have abundant body hair, although as i showed above with a study not all Caucasoids are hairy, as some have zero body hair. Body hair seems to widely differ among races, although the greatest diversity seems to be among Caucasoids.
Anyway, here is a very hairy Australoid (Australian Aborigine) -
look at the arms, chests and back...
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Caucasoid (Caucasian) is not a geographical term, it is a race.
Caucasoids have the most phenotype diversity from skin pigmentation, hair colour etcetc. While Negroids have the least.
Little selective pressures acted on Negroids, while the most acted on Caucasoids. Negroid or 'Black' women look like Negroid men, that's how little phenotype diversity they have. There is very little sexual dimorophism in Negroids, all that happened is that Negroid women developed fat on the buttocks.
Your bullshit wiki page is not of my concern.
Here are the facts.
Caucasian
1807, from Caucasus Mountains, between the Black and Caspian seas; applied to the "white" race 1795 (in Ger.) by Ger. anthropologist Johann Blumenbach, because their supposed ancestral homeland lay there; since abandoned as a historical/anthropological term. Lit. meaning "resident or native of the Caucasus" is from 1843.
The mountain range name is from Gk. kaukhasis, said by Pliny ("Natural History," book six, chap. XVII) to be from a Scythian word similar to kroy-khasis, lit. "(the mountain) ice-shining, white with snow." But possibly from a Pelasgian root *kau- meaning "mountain."
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [QB] I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
No its not a recent mutation. Some Australoids are very hairy. Furthermore African Pygmies (Bambutids) are also hairy, ranging from light to abundant. Its not only Caucasoid Europeans who have abundant body hair, although as i showed above with a study not all Caucasoids are hairy, as some have zero body hair. Body hair seems to widely differ among races, although the greatest diversity seems to be among Caucasoids.
Anyway, here is a very hairy Australoid (Australian Aborigine) -
look at the arms, chests and back...
You are a complete liar and a dumbass.
Autosomal microsatellite variability of the Arrernte people of Australia
M. A. Alfonso-Sánchez1,2, A. M. Pérez-Miranda1,2, R. J. Herrera1,*
Article first published online: 23 OCT 2007
DOI: 10.1002/ajhb.20685
American Journal of Human Biology Volume 20, Issue 1, pages 91–99,
Abstract
The genomic diversity of the Arrernte people of Australia or caterpillar people was investigated utilizing 13 autosomal short tandem repeat (STR) markers. Significant departures from Hardy–Weinberg equilibrium were detected at the D18S51, TPOX and CSF1PO loci, which persisted after applying the Bonferroni correction. Gene diversity values oscillate between 0.6302 (CSF1PO) and 0.8731 (D21S11). Observed heterozygosity (Ho) ranges from 0.2632 (D18S51) to 0.8333 (vWA) and is lower than the expected heterozygosity (He) for 12 of the 13 loci analyzed.
The genetic relationships of the Arrernte with Middle Eastern, East Asian, South Asian and Indian populations were analyzed by distance-based methods, including Neighbor-Joining trees and nonmetric multidimensional scaling.
In addition, the genetic contribution of the populations included in the analysis to the Arrernte gene pool was estimated utilizing weighted least square coefficients. Although the Arrernte population exhibits a remarkable level of genetic differentiation, results of the phylogeographic analyses based on autosomal microsatellite data suggest a certain degree of genetic relatedness between the Arrernte tribe of Australia and populations from the Indian subcontinent.
In contrast, the STR diversity analyses failed to detect substantial East Asian contribution to the genetic background of the Arrernte group. Am. J.
1)." Autraliods" are early Eurasians. They moved into Eurasia and from there furher east. Hg C, D arose/ mutated in Eurasia and coastal Arabian Peninsula.
2). While other early migrationist like Negritos migrated via the coastal route.
You lose again. Keep trying!
Stanley H. Ambrose Department of Anthropology, University of Illinois,
Journal of Human Evolution (1998) 34, 623–651
Late Pleistocene human population bottlenecks, volcanic winter, and differentiation of modern humans
The cause, timing and location of bottleneck releases
If population release was due to the natural increase (logistic population growth) of disease-resistant populations following epidemics, then growth could have been relatively rapid, a function of the intrinsic rate of increase of disease-resistant popula-tions, and the duration of the bottleneck relatively brief. Its date could have been at any time, but would presumably have been relatively soon after the bottleneck. Release could have occurred wherever disease-resistant individuals survived.
If release was due to natural increase in founder population size after dispersing across land bridges or narrow straits (Lahr, 1996; Lahr & Foley, 1994) then release dates would vary from 70–50 ka for the early Australasian dispersal, to 45 ka for the second Levantine dispersal. In the epidemic and dispersal scenarios the dura-tion of the bottleneck would have been brief.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
The failure of early modern humans to survive in the Levant during the early last glacial implies they were not yet physiologically and/or behaviorally well-adapted to cold climates and Palearctic environments, or at least not as well-adapted as neanderthals.
The Multiple Dispersals model (Figure 3) proposes that a population bottleneck occurred during oxygen isotope stage 6, when cold, dry climates caused isolation and differentiation of populations within Africa.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
Global climate change could have reduced populations during the early last ice age, oxygen isotope stage 4
... As noted above, the replacement of modern humans by neander- thals in the Levant, suggests African modern humans were rather poorly-adapted to cold climates.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
In fact European men seem to be the only men that have a lot of body hair. I would attribute that to cold adaptation, but paradoxically the hairiest men of all are supposedly Mediterranean rather than Northern Europeans, and otherwise cold-adapted Amero-Asians (my new word for so-called "Mongoloids") have little body hair like Africans. Anyone got an hypothesis explaining this?
From what I know the hairiest men are Eurasians. Even females are relatively hairy to some extend. And I too think it deals wih cold adaption from before the Holocene and Neolithic period.
I am not speaking of better or worse, superior or inferior. But such trait is not in Africans that is what this is about. And yes it could be they found a few people in that region who are genetically 60% Euraisan. However, what they don't tell is that there are actually immigrants from the Middle East who do populate some of these regions. These groups moved there during the Islamic expansion. So likely they will have an abundance of this particular Hg.
These are the mistakes some scholars have made in the past when they sampled populations and came up with these sequences. It's like telling a half story and never the truth, complete.
The overall composition is African in orgin. And the autosomal is usually related to Yemeni and Omani, which they have considered "Eurasian"?lol
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Indeed. This all goes back to my question of how 'Eurasian' are Arabians, especially south Arabians like Yemenis and Omanis. Arabia is right next to Africa and has been the site of immigrations from Africa since the first OOA migrations but even well after with other immigrations from Africa occurring. Thus where is the actual division between indigenous Arabian populations and indigenous Africans? The flora and fauna of Arabia are also an extension of Africa. Even geologically the very land of Arabia itself is an appendage of Africa that broke away due to tectonics and is still moving away just as the African Rift is breaking away the eastern side of Africa from the rest of the continent. All of this goes back to what Dana has said all along as well as to what Takruri has said. Why is Arabia simply Eurasian and not considered Extra-Africa or Africa Minor or something to that effect?? Even the ancient Greeks claimed Ethiopia as comprising both sides of the Red Sea.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
In fact European men seem to be the only men that have a lot of body hair. I would attribute that to cold adaptation, but paradoxically the hairiest men of all are supposedly Mediterranean rather than Northern Europeans, and otherwise cold-adapted Amero-Asians (my new word for so-called "Mongoloids") have little body hair like Africans. Anyone got an hypothesis explaining this?
I think the Ainu have a lot of hair though. Not sure why either.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Indeed. This all goes back to my question of how 'Eurasian' are Arabians, especially south Arabians like Yemenis and Omanis. Arabia is right next to Africa and has been the site of immigrations from Africa since the first OOA migrations but even well after with other immigrations from Africa occurring. Thus where is the actual division between indigenous Arabian populations and indigenous Africans? The flora and fauna of Arabia are also an extension of Africa. Even geologically the very land of Arabia itself is an appendage of Africa that broke away due to tectonics and is still moving away just as the African Rift is breaking away the eastern side of Africa from the rest of the continent. All of this goes back to what Dana has said all along as well as to what Takruri has said. Why is Arabia simply Eurasian and not considered Extra-Africa or Africa Minor or something to that effect ...
European cartographers must have changed it only within the last century or so because hijaz where Mecca and Medina was "universally" designated as East Africa according to Sir Richard Burton even in his day.
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Arent Australians close to Antartica? Wouldnt they need more cold adaptations?
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I wonder if male body hair as we know it is actually a very recent development that originated among modern humans in in Mediterranean Europe. I've seen photos of African men in traditional clothing, and with few exceptions they have very scant if any body hair. That would be strange if body hair predates the speciation of modern humans, as Africans were the earliest of our species.
In fact European men seem to be the only men that have a lot of body hair. I would attribute that to cold adaptation, but paradoxically the hairiest men of all are supposedly Mediterranean rather than Northern Europeans, and otherwise cold-adapted Amero-Asians (my new word for so-called "Mongoloids") have little body hair like Africans. Anyone got an hypothesis explaining this?
I think the Ainu have a lot of hair though. Not sure why either.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Indeed. This all goes back to my question of how 'Eurasian' are Arabians, especially south Arabians like Yemenis and Omanis. Arabia is right next to Africa and has been the site of immigrations from Africa since the first OOA migrations but even well after with other immigrations from Africa occurring. Thus where is the actual division between indigenous Arabian populations and indigenous Africans? The flora and fauna of Arabia are also an extension of Africa. Even geologically the very land of Arabia itself is an appendage of Africa that broke away due to tectonics and is still moving away just as the African Rift is breaking away the eastern side of Africa from the rest of the continent. All of this goes back to what Dana has said all along as well as to what Takruri has said. Why is Arabia simply Eurasian and not considered Extra-Africa or Africa Minor or something to that effect?? Even the ancient Greeks claimed Ethiopia as comprising both sides of the Red Sea.
That is because historically you have Northern Arabs and Southern Arabs. Northern Arabs came from Eurasia and Southern Arabs from Yemen, Oman. Who originated from the Horn and Nilo-Sahara.
Thus making up two large Hg components in the Arabian Peninsula.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Arent Australians close to Antartica? Wouldnt they need more cold adaptations?
It would be interesting to study this part, I haven't done thus far.
PLoS One. 2012; 7(5): e36437. Published online 2012 May 7. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0036437 PMCID: PMC3346718
Patrilineal Perspective on the Austronesian Diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia
Am J Hum Genet. 2011 October 7; 89(4): 516–528. doi: 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.09.005 PMCID: PMC3188841
Denisova Admixture and the First Modern Human Dispersals into Southeast Asia and Oceania
David Reich et al.
" It has recently been shown that ancestors of New Guineans and Bougainville Islanders have inherited a proportion of their ancestry from Denisovans, an archaic hominin group from Siberia. "
Even in parts of South Africa it snows cause its getting close to the south ple so im sure Australians would need SOME cold adaptations that most Africans wouldnt (so they got body hair I guess)
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
How many people here have heard of the Tasmanian aborigines? They were apparently a dark-skinned, woolly-haired people who nonetheless had cold-adapted body plans and lived quite far from the tropical latitudes:
quote:It has been suggester by Brown that the remains were actually those of a woman, but the original measurements, as well a photographs of the femur head, which was 49 mm in diameter, with a scale, demonstrate that it is outside the range for a woman. The femur had a big head and was relatively short, which is a classic feature found in cold-adapted skeletons, as in those of the Inuit and Sherpas. Aborigines had been living in Tasmania since about 35,000 BP, and by 14,000 BP, the age of the King Island remains, it appears they had adapted to the cold conditions in the usual way, becoming shorter and stockier.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Interesting how that harkens back to your thread about Natufians being cold adapted. You do realize that southern Africa especially in the coastal areas has a 'Mediterranean' climate and this may also explain certain features of the Khoisan. I wouldn't be surprised if similar adaptations took place among coastal North Africans and especially those who migrated further north into the Levant or the Atlas Mountains. Note that the short limbs may very well have to do with short stature so much than cold adaptation since Pygmies are also noted for having such limb proportions despite living in the equatorial tropics. Limb proportion here is correlated with limb growth or rather the stunting of such growth.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting how that harkens back to your thread about Natufians being cold adapted. You do realize that southern Africa especially in the coastal areas has a 'Mediterranean' climate and this may also explain certain features of the Khoisan. I wouldn't be surprised if similar adaptations took place among coastal North Africans and especially those who migrated further north into the Levant or the Atlas Mountains.
Good question. Limb proportions may not correlate perfectly with skin color after all, at least in the sense that dark-skinned people can still have cold-adapted body plans. Also, Tasmania lies at a similar distance from the Equator to southern Europe, so there's no guarantee that living in a "Mediterranean" latitude would lead to substantial depigmentation. Makes you wonder exactly where in the world people turned white.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
stralians would need SOME cold adaptations that most Africans wouldnt (so they got body hair I guess)
^^SUre. COld Adaptations would be nothing special- the peoples came from tropical climes via the OOA migrations, and over time, adapted to the cold. Happened in EUrope as well. RECAP for the newbies -> Keep in mind that TROPICAL Africa has numerous micro-climates, ranging from cool cloud forest, coastal zone and high mountain plateau, to dry desert and hot savannah. Tropical Africans live in, adapt to and move in an out of these areas at will. Narrow nosed Africans appear in hot sweltering savannah, while broad nosed Africans show up on cold mountain plateaus without needing any "Eurasian" "race mix" to give them "diversity."
Tropical Africans are not static entities huddling behind some "sub-Saharan" "apartheid" line. The tropical zone extends all the way into southern Egypt and parts of LIbya. Tropical Africans not only live in that zone but move into other zones on the African continent as well, without need "clearance" from "Eurasians" or anyone else.
so there's no guarantee that living in a "Mediterranean" latitude would lead to substantial depigmentation. Makes you wonder exactly where in the world people turned white.
Yep- a MEdit climate would cause some depigmentation, which is what happened with the Nile Valley- folks moving from the hotter tropical zones adapted in various ways at vari0us speeds to the MEdit Climate of some of Egypt, particularly the north. SOme "biodiversity" types try to avoid this reality- invoking mythical waves of "wandering Caucasoids" to explain such mere climatic adaption fundamentally. And narrow noses appear in arid desert, so the incoming Saharan peoples to the Nile Valley already had such features- again without needing waves of "wandering Caucasoids" to explain why.
Skin color changes s in white people? Good question-- examined by several scholars.
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