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Here take It!! that revolutionary Bull Shyte won't put this in yo pocket!
> It Pays being a clown! Look Wye folks doing it!! Drive this and drink this! Fuk em!! Im ona Yacht. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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@ Brada...we can seh di same ting fe dancehall enuh...cah...look whappen tuh it... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Agreed T&R part of the problem is we needed some fun and lite outlet sometimes,but the industry allowed the silly,lite and even violently misogynistic to dominate thus dulling the senses and forcing the impressionable to view the above as proof of success all the while feeling empty for how the hell with all those $$$ you still going to jail or getting killed not for revolutionary speech but for self indulgent bull sh!t.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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^ Russel Simmons has pretty much said 3/4ths of the industry is funded by white males. That's not even adding in white females.
*Blacks buy it because it's one of the few, prevalent images where blacks appear to be in a position of power. The lifestyle however, of a spoiled, incredibly rich, misogynistic brat is not exactly an obtainable lifestyle for blacks, let alone can it accurately speak for it.
*White males can throw themselves into and identify with more easily the hyper materialist culture of modern hip hop and don't as often come from matriarchal or households. To keep it brief, a large reason hip hop has changed is because it's audience has changed to increase revenue. It is commercialized hip hop for white people. Really think about it. It's much easier for them to have access to drugs, have access to incredibly expensive materials (unaffordable to many blacks and probably not even sold in their neighborhoods), and to party it up.
quote:you still going to jail or getting killed not for revolutionary speech but for self indulgent bull sh!t.
You're not because you're conditioning people to invest in businesses. Singing about apple bottom jeans, or Grey Goose or in Rihanna's most recent display of advertising in her song I'll Drink to That. You work for big businesses, not against them. Why do would they kill musicians who act indulgent towards their products?
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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With all o that you would think they would be at least be happier then these folks above mind you these are American poor.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
The fact of the matter is Hip-hop no longer represents black people, African American culture or anything.
Hip-Hop was originally about the struggle of inner city life, now its become a pissing contest to see who can brag the best about how the rapper wastes their money.
I mean really who listens to hip-hop anymore lol
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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This is true, also my sister looks at some show called, Love of Hip-hop or something like that and the Real Housewives of ATL(with the black people) and Basketball wives etc. From what I gather from the very few times I actually give that trash the time of day, these Rich black entertainers are some of the most snobbish, stuck up, POS alive. To call them "Bougie" would be a complement as the "the black bourgeoisie" where the term Bougie comes from were Upper Middle Class folks who were often than not productive to African American culture, this new Bourgeoisie is counter-productive to African American culture and quite ignorant to boot, being entertainers rather than intellectuals.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: ^ Russel Simmons has pretty much said 3/4ths of the industry is funded by white males. That's not even adding in white females.
*Blacks buy it because it's one of the few, prevalent images where blacks appear to be in a position of power. The lifestyle however, of a spoiled, incredibly rich, misogynistic brat is not exactly an obtainable lifestyle for blacks, let alone can it accurately speak for it.
*White males can throw themselves into and identify with more easily the hyper materialist culture of modern hip hop and don't as often come from matriarchal or households. To keep it brief, a large reason hip hop has changed is because it's audience has changed to increase revenue. It is commercialized hip hop for white people. Really think about it. It's much easier for them to have access to drugs, have access to incredibly expensive materials (unaffordable to many blacks and probably not even sold in their neighborhoods), and to party it up.
quote:you still going to jail or getting killed not for revolutionary speech but for self indulgent bull sh!t.
You're not because you're conditioning people to invest in businesses. Singing about apple bottom jeans, or Grey Goose or in Rihanna's most recent display of advertising in her song I'll Drink to That. You work for big businesses, not against them. Why do would they kill musicians who act indulgent towards their products?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Pretty good points from everyone here so far. I would only add that sex, drugs and debauchery are pretty much a white lifestyle as Africans and other blacks have been catching too much hell for the last couple hundred years to live such a lifestyle under colonialism. The colonists were able to brag and boast about all the exotic women and mixed off spring they had around the world and all the money they were making in the colonies. That pretty much is where the whole concept of 'playboy' comes from. It doesn't come from African life styles. Similarly, Gangster culture in America comes from whites and most certainly not black folks but to hear them tell it....
But most hip hop today is actually part of a slick promotional and A/R industry that provides models, money, booze and venues to push a lifestyle that most black folks aren't really living. Then you got the young folks turned on to this by promoters and agents in the hood scouting wanna be models and rappers and turning them into legions of club hoppers, whores and wanna be thugs in every town crawling various clubs. And this same crowd of promoters and agents often come from educated back grounds and also works to promote this fake lifestyle to the black educated crowd (p-diddy started as a party promoter in college) as "elite" hookers and thugs on another level from the riff raff.
But honestly this is basically what has become of American culture and society across the board. You see the same thing in mainstream America. Free sex and love in the 60s has become sex in the city for today's youth and black folks are simply getting caught up in a lifestyle they cannot afford and which they cannot recover from, whereas mainstream America has a lot more money, resources and institutions to absorb the impact.
And on top of all that the legacy of the colonialist history has been rolled up into the current times. Europeans can go all over the world and promote big bashes and parties out in the middle of nowhere because they have the money. For example, South and Central America are pretty much permanent party spots these kinds of folks. Look at Brazil and you will see it and even Mexico. And in these places they can attract all kinds of exotic local beauties to play with. Black folks don't have that kind of money, but the network of agents and promoters are in place to groom and provide the illusion of that lifestyle. Party promoters, club promoters, model promoters, entertainment promoters and on and on, who are really just ripping off the dreams and naivete of young black folks. And most of the time a lot of these people are ultimately in the employ of whites who own the clubs and industry. That doesn't mean that the same thing doesn't happen among Europeans, just that more of them actually can afford it.
The youth wind up looking like young goon thugs who can half speak trying to wild out and crash something because they want any chance they can to live the fantasy even if that is only for a minute or just by walking around on the beaches or down the streets of rich expensive vacation spots where they cant afford to live. Unfortunately they are only emboldened by the promoters, agents and wanna be elite folks who pander to them through the industry resulting in a hot mess of psychosocial dysfunction across generations and the entire black community. Hence rampant rates of out of wedlock births across the economic spectrum of the black community as folks have lost the ability to form strong relationships. Rampant rates of black folks staying single longer, especially black women. Rampant rates of black on black violence as a result of the angst and frustration of not really being able to live the fantasy (mainstream imitation) promoted on TV along with rampant self hate as a result of the latent "nigger killing" culture of America that goes back before the civil rights movement. And on and on and on....
Another example of the decandent culture of mainstream America black folks try to adopt but cannot really afford is the entertainment sex tape. Paris Hilton was one of the first to make such a thing. She has mad paper. Black folks imitating the decadence of the larger society only leads to their destruction.
Face it black folks got better things to do than be going to the club shaking their behinds trying to pretend they got it like that. They don't.
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posted
Damn Doug !!! You broke it down. I was going to add my input but you pretty much covered everything. Great commentary.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Hiphop and rap have always been about bling, bitches, and thuggery. You obviously don't know the history of it. Go listen to the lyrics in Rapper's Delight and educate yourself. Early rap sowed the seed for what we presently have.
Posts: 816 | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Break-the-bull: Hiphop and rap have always been about bling, bitches, and thuggery. You obviously don't know the history of it. Go listen to the lyrics in Rapper's Delight and educate yourself. Early rap sowed the seed for what we presently have.
Yes rappers delight invented hip hop lol
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
No clown, I never said they did. But they are the forerunners to the "movement." They were part of the grassroots of hip hop and reflected the sentiment of that period of hip hop, clown.
I dare any to produce a rap song from the 70s that did not objectify women or wasn't materialistic, confrontational or anti-social.
quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: Yes rappers delight invented hip hop lol [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by Break-the-bull: No clown, I never said they did. But they are the forerunners to the "movement." They were part of the grassroots of hip hop and reflected the sentiment of that period of hip hop, clown.
I dare any to produce a rap song from the 70s that did not objectify women or wasn't confrontational or anti-social.
quote:Originally posted by asante-Korton: Yes rappers delight invented hip hop lol
[/QB]
Is this another one of your pages confirmed truth?
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
Early hip hop was not about objectifying women or preaching thuggery. Treacherous Three and Funky Four plus one are early hip hop artists and who typify the time period.
Gangsta rap didn't come on the scene until later and mostly came from an underground culture of house and basement parties where the "hustlers" would brag about their exploits. But these people had to actually have a "rep" to back up their lyrical boasts. And then as the drugs became more predominant in the cities (when the white mob was taken out) it transitioned from petty thievery, gangs and fighting to drug related boasts but that came much later in the 80s. By that time the underground was starting to evaporate as everyone was starting to get record deals with big labels. Not ironically the industry itself was already heavily involved in drugs and so from there things really went south....
Today most of the stuff you see if strictly fake in the sense that there is a big industry that exists to provide all the backdrops and props to create this lifestyle and image that most black folks aren't living in reality.
For example: most of these women are simply paid models that have about as much to do with the street as the pope is Muslim. One of them is even a porn star I believe (the only black one lol). Hip Hop models are provided by one or two big companies who has big stables of females to provide for parties, videos, the net, magazines and so forth.
Nothing out of the ordinary happened to Hip Hop, other than that it disproportionally expanded to accomodate the ''non-socially aware'' types that were in the minority when the Hip Hop was its early stages and still outside of the scope of commercial interests. These other parts of Hip Hop need to be there too (it is, and has always been a part of the culture whether we like it or not), it just needs to be balanced with more message driven music.
Hip Hop has an unusually strong grasp on what comes out of it; its quite good at self policing itself, in that it doesn't tolerate concepts and practices that deviate from its early foundations for long.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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^ I grew up on this type of stuff. Original east coast style hip hop eluded me for some time.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
And really early hip hop wasn't really message driven either. It was mostly about having fun, hanging out and other things. "Conscious" rap came later with folks like KRS One and so forth.
When I say early hip hop I am talking about the mid to late 70s when there was no hip hop on the radio and the only place to hear it was in the house parties, in the park or on tapes made by DJs. This is when hip hop was primarily something you saw and heard live not on the radio or on CDs.
Early hip hop was also about creating your own records to some degree as "white folks" meaning the recording industry was not putting it out. So many folks pressed their own records and tapes and sold them out of the trunks of their cars. This is the time when car audio was created by taking home speakers and custom speaker kits bought from catalogs and putting them in cars....
Only later in the 80s did things get more gritty with battle raps and other stuff and then "gangsta" rap.
The hardest act in early hip hop on records was Run DMC.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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Social awareness in Hip Hop did not start later on. It was present from the start. Turntabling etc are just one part of Hiphop, and not necessarily exclusive to Hiphop either. Jamaicans were already doing the block party/toasting thing.
But yeah, I could see if you're taking that to mean full fledged Hip Hop, one could consider socially driven themes a later addition.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Actually, that's false.
Social awareness in Hip Hop did not start later on. It was present from the start. Turntabling etc are just one part of Hiphop, and not necessarily exclusive to Hiphop either. Jamaicans were already doing the block party/toasting thing.
But yeah, I could see if you're taking that to mean full fledged Hip Hop, one could consider socially driven themes a later addition.
Uh no. From 78 to 85 there was no "conscious" hip hop. Most hip hop was about partying and having fun... But if you believe there was at that time please feel free to post up some. KRS One was the one most identify with conscious rap and that started in the late 80s but he did not start off that way. And of course Public Enemy released their first album the late 80s.
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Actually, that's false.
Social awareness in Hip Hop did not start later on. It was present from the start. Turntabling etc are just one part of Hiphop, and not necessarily exclusive to Hiphop either. Jamaicans were already doing the block party/toasting thing.
But yeah, I could see if you're taking that to mean full fledged Hip Hop, one could consider socially driven themes a later addition.
Uh no. From 78 to 85 there was no "conscious" hip hop. Most hip hop was about partying and having fun... But if you believe there was at that time please feel free to post up some. KRS One was the one most identify with conscious rap and that started in the late 80s but he did not start off that way. And of course Public Enemy released their first album the late 80s.
^Africa Bambaataa is an example that comes to mind. Actually, he's not ''just'' an example given his influence. His whole Zulu Nation movement is about being socially aware.
Your time frame (78 to 85) of a conscious-free Hip Hop doesn't take into account songs like ''The message'', arguably one of the most influential early rap songs, which was solely dedicated to problems facing young black males.
IMO, the block parties thing is not actually Hiphop, because it has few distinguishable features from what was already out there (ie, Disco, Funk, Electro, even rapping itself), and many of the features and practices that were dominant back then weren't carried on beyond those times (eg, some of the dance styles, the disco influences, the practice of revolving entire parties around drum breaks etc etc). It would be more accurate to see it as the matrix in which Hip Hop developed.
I'm sure that if we would rewind the time, and rerun time from the early seventies, there is a good chance that what was brewing back then in Bronx would evolve into something entirely different.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Africa Bambaataa was not well known for being "conscious" early on in terms of his "rapping". His main claim to fame was electronic synthesizers and instrumental beats, ie. looking for the perfect beat. Most of his lyrics were pretty much standard in terms of Hip Hop of the time and not particularly "conscious". The consciousness he gets credit for is in identifying himself with Africa through his name, dress and relating the beats and rhythms he made with Africa and the Zulu Nation. And yes you are right "the Message" was a very notable example of a form of conscious rap but that was very much in the minority and the the real conscious movement didn't really take off until Public Enemy and KRS One. And I mean people who consistently publish conscious albums, not simply one rap song that is conscious to the point where it becomes a genre unto itself. And these records made a point to be explicit about the problems that black folks still faced from the larger white society, whereas other albums simply alluded to it.
I grew up in the 70s and I know how Hip Hop started because I lived it. Hip Hop started in the house and in the playgrounds of New York and Philadelphia. There was no hip hop on the radio and at that time in New York and Philadelphia disco and R&B was the mainstream in black music. Early hip hop got most of its beats and sounds from R&B, like the Commodores, Denise Williams and so forth. Those "break beats" were used to make a lot of the popular hip hop albums. And people were experimenting with scratching using old R&B records and disco records from their parents or from the store. That is simply how Hip Hop started. Hip Hop is a direct descendant of R&B, Disco, Be Bop Jazz and even Swing Rhyming in the 40s.
And in the 70s and early 80s, most neighborhoods had a lot of very big block parties and public events in parks and recreation centers which often started out with live bands but eventually DJs and Rappers started to become more popular as Hip Hop became more popular with the youth. So no, the bands weren't Hip Hop, but the DJs and Rappers were the Hip Hop and in this time, that was the main way people could hear hip hop because there wasn't any on the radio and there wasn't a lot of tapes either. It was primarily something you saw and heard live at these outdoor events or parties and in this time almost everyone and their brother was either a DJ, MC or Rapper and there was a lot of money to made because there were a lot of block parties, outdoor events and house parties at this time and a lot of people were going to them.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
^Look up his movement, and see whether it is as superficial as you say (ie, simply identifying with Africa[ns]). Thats all I'm going to say in reaction to your post, because there is no real difference between what we're saying anyway. Only minor difference in interpretations concerning when, along it's many incipient signs of life, Hip Hop can be considered Hip Hop.
Let's wrap it up and give each other a ''5 on the black hand side'', shall we?
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Africa Bambaataa was not well known for being "conscious" early on in terms of his "rapping". His main claim to fame was electronic synthesizers and instrumental beats, ie. looking for the perfect beat. Most of his lyrics were pretty much standard in terms of Hip Hop of the time and not particularly "conscious". The consciousness he gets credit for is in identifying himself with Africa through his name, dress and relating the beats and rhythms he made with Africa and the Zulu Nation. And yes you are right "the Message" was a very notable example of a form of conscious rap but that was very much in the minority and the the real conscious movement didn't really take off until Public Enemy and KRS One. And I mean people who consistently publish conscious albums, not simply one rap song that is conscious to the point where it becomes a genre unto itself. And these records made a point to be explicit about the problems that black folks still faced from the larger white society, whereas other albums simply alluded to it.
I grew up in the 70s and I know how Hip Hop started because I lived it. Hip Hop started in the house and in the playgrounds of New York and Philadelphia. There was no hip hop on the radio and at that time in New York and Philadelphia disco and R&B was the mainstream in black music. Early hip hop got most of its beats and sounds from R&B, like the Commodores, Denise Williams and so forth. Those "break beats" were used to make a lot of the popular hip hop albums. And people were experimenting with scratching using old R&B records and disco records from their parents or from the store. That is simply how Hip Hop started. Hip Hop is a direct descendant of R&B, Disco, Be Bop Jazz and even Swing Rhyming in the 40s.
And in the 70s and early 80s, most neighborhoods had a lot of very big block parties and public events in parks and recreation centers which often started out with live bands but eventually DJs and Rappers started to become more popular as Hip Hop became more popular with the youth. So no, the bands weren't Hip Hop, but the DJs and Rappers were the Hip Hop and in this time, that was the main way people could hear hip hop because there wasn't any on the radio and there wasn't a lot of tapes either. It was primarily something you saw and heard live at these outdoor events or parties and in this time almost everyone and their brother was either a DJ, MC or Rapper and there was a lot of money to made because there were a lot of block parties, outdoor events and house parties at this time and a lot of people were going to them.
Yep. This is pretty much the way Davey D breaks it down.
posted
The movement wasn't how most people knew about Africa Bambaata. We are talking about Music and as far as the Music goes his hits were Looking for the Perfect Beat, Planet Rock and so forth. Again, pretty much standard fare from the hip hop era.
His "conscious" efforts were collaborations with James Brown and on unity and the collaborations with mainstream artists on "Sun city". His Zulu Nation Movement was primarily in settling the beefs with gangs in New York through block parties and DJing, which mostly is something local to New York. Planet Rock, Perfect Beat and so forth are the main tracks most people know about and are not particularly "concscious". To me Public Enemy and KRS are the first true conscious acts.
But don't get me wrong either, at that period of time hearing rap on the radio was a big deal and hearing people identifying with Africa and warriors like the Zulu was an even bigger deal. So that by itself had a tremendous impact by itself.
Of course his efforts at promoting unity and identifying with Africa as well as being an early promoter of hip hop acts, beats and DJing eventually set the stage for Public Enemy and KRS who came in the late 80s. But that was the late 80s and I was going to college at that point. Early hip hop started in Grade school for me so that was ancient history by that time and things were very different. Early hip hop was all fun and silly stuff (perfect example rappers delight) whereas by the time I got to college (and a lot of other black folks) things were more serious and hence Public Enemy and KRS were fitting to the times.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Africa Bambaataa was not well known for being "conscious" early on in terms of his "rapping". His main claim to fame was electronic synthesizers and instrumental beats, ie. looking for the perfect beat. Most of his lyrics were pretty much standard in terms of Hip Hop of the time and not particularly "conscious". The consciousness he gets credit for is in identifying himself with Africa through his name, dress and relating the beats and rhythms he made with Africa and the Zulu Nation. And yes you are right "the Message" was a very notable example of a form of conscious rap but that was very much in the minority and the the real conscious movement didn't really take off until Public Enemy and KRS One. And I mean people who consistently publish conscious albums, not simply one rap song that is conscious to the point where it becomes a genre unto itself. And these records made a point to be explicit about the problems that black folks still faced from the larger white society, whereas other albums simply alluded to it.
I grew up in the 70s and I know how Hip Hop started because I lived it. Hip Hop started in the house and in the playgrounds of New York and Philadelphia. There was no hip hop on the radio and at that time in New York and Philadelphia disco and R&B was the mainstream in black music. Early hip hop got most of its beats and sounds from R&B, like the Commodores, Denise Williams and so forth. Those "break beats" were used to make a lot of the popular hip hop albums. And people were experimenting with scratching using old R&B records and disco records from their parents or from the store. That is simply how Hip Hop started. Hip Hop is a direct descendant of R&B, Disco, Be Bop Jazz and even Swing Rhyming in the 40s.
And in the 70s and early 80s, most neighborhoods had a lot of very big block parties and public events in parks and recreation centers which often started out with live bands but eventually DJs and Rappers started to become more popular as Hip Hop became more popular with the youth. So no, the bands weren't Hip Hop, but the DJs and Rappers were the Hip Hop and in this time, that was the main way people could hear hip hop because there wasn't any on the radio and there wasn't a lot of tapes either. It was primarily something you saw and heard live at these outdoor events or parties and in this time almost everyone and their brother was either a DJ, MC or Rapper and there was a lot of money to made because there were a lot of block parties, outdoor events and house parties at this time and a lot of people were going to them.
Yep. This is pretty much the way Davey D breaks it down.
Absolutely and as a matter of fact the Jamaican connection is very important. I remember going to this park way back in the late 70s where DJs were battling and had massive systems set up (7-8 turn tables) and this was the big kick off event of the summer. And on our way to the main area we went past an area where the Jamaicans were doing free style on the mic with their own DJs and turn tables. That was the first time I had ever seen anything like that.
posted
Actually, Sundiata, your source also makes a clear distinction between ''rapping'' and ''Hip Hop'', with the former being the earlier partying thing, and the latter evolving out of that, similar to what I've been saying. He also confirms that rapping over beats was a direct import from Jamaica, which factors into my earlier statements as well (that that in and of it self can't constitute Hip Hop, because it existed already). This would push the emergence of conscious Hip Hop to around the time when Hip Hop ''emerged from rap'' in the words of your source.
@Doug M
I never said conscious rap was dominant, only that it was present from the start; there was always a socially aware component to the culture, even in the ''toasting'' days.
quote:Along with other DJs such as DJ Kool Herc and Kool DJ Dee, he too began hosting hip hop parties. He vowed to use hip hop to draw angry kids out of gangs and formed the Universal Zulu Nation.
quote:In 1982, Bambaataa and his followers, a group of dancers, artists and DJs, went outside the United States on the first hip hop tour.[1] Bambaataa saw that the hip hop tours would be the key to help expand hip hop and his Universal Zulu Nation. [i]In addition it would help promote the [h]values of hip hop that he believed are based on peace, unity, love,[/b] and having fun. Bambaataa brought peace to the gangs[i] as many artists and gang members say that "hip hop saved a lot of lives".
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Actually, Sundiata, your source also makes a clear distinction between ''rapping'' and ''Hip Hop'', with the former being the earlier partying thing, and the latter evolving out of that, similar to what I've been saying. He also confirms that rapping over beats was a direct import from Jamaica, which factors into my earlier statements as well (that that in and of it self can't constitute Hip Hop, because it existed already).
@Doug M
I never said conscious rap was dominant, only that it was present from the start; there was always a socially aware component to the culture, even in the ''toasting'' days.
quote:Along with other DJs such as DJ Kool Herc and Kool DJ Dee, he too began hosting hip hop parties. He vowed to use hip hop to draw angry kids out of gangs and formed the Universal Zulu Nation.
quote:In 1982, Bambaataa and his followers, a group of dancers, artists and DJs, went outside the United States on the first hip hop tour.[1] Bambaataa saw that the hip hop tours would be the key to help expand hip hop and his Universal Zulu Nation. [i]In addition it would help promote the [h]values of hip hop that he believed are based on peace, unity, love,[/b] and having fun. Bambaataa brought peace to the gangs[i] as many artists and gang members say that "hip hop saved a lot of lives".
I understood you but I still wouldn't call it "conscious" in the sense of what came later.
I would even say that the Jamaican stuff of the era was more conscious because of the history of Raggae itself being more conscious.
quote:I understood you but I still wouldn't call it "conscious" in the sense of what came later.
^That is because I never employed the word initially to begin with. Social awareness was the word I used, and being socially aware doesn't hinge on letting your opinions shine through ''conscious'' music.
Like I said, there isn't much we disagree on, other than what milestones we see as bringing about ''Hip Hop''.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:I understood you but I still wouldn't call it "conscious" in the sense of what came later.
^That is because I never employed the word initially to begin with. Social awareness was the word I used, and being socially aware doesn't hinge on letting your opinions shine through ''conscious'' music.
Like I said, there isn't much we disagree on, other than what milestones we see as bringing about ''Hip Hop''.
Its all good. Maybe I make more of a distinction because of the eras and the distinct change in times and attitudes. Going back to the topic of the thread, the earliest stuff be it dance hall or hip hop was totally a night and day difference from what you have today. And the change took place primarily from the early 90s on, when rap became totally corporate junk food and now you see more folks who have been raised on that crap.
quote:I understood you but I still wouldn't call it "conscious" in the sense of what came later.
^That is because I never employed the word initially to begin with. Social awareness was the word I used, and being socially aware doesn't hinge on letting your opinions shine through ''conscious'' music.
Like I said, there isn't much we disagree on, other than what milestones we see as bringing about ''Hip Hop''.
Its all good. Maybe I make more of a distinction because of the eras and the distinct change in times and attitudes. Going back to the topic of the thread, the earliest stuff be it dance hall or hip hop was totally a night and day difference from what you have today. And the change took place primarily from the early 90s on, when rap became totally corporate junk food and now you see more folks who have been raised on that crap.
Agree, and in my opinion, where Hip Hop is going wrong, is that way too many of our minds are turned to Hip Hop culture to try make a living and/or portray that lifestyle. A lot of the degration that we see today in Hip Hop music is because of the easyness with which non-talented buffoons find their way into Hip Hop.
Degenerates like Waka Flocka, aren't musicians, just misguided youths leeching on to the culture to make a living. I don't have a problem with Gangster rap(pers), as long as they actually make music (rather than rhythmically glorifying gangsterism all the time), and the general public understands that they don't represent the culture, just like Robert DeNiro and them (who frequently portray violent gangster roles) don't represent all actors.
Hip Hop needs to more like the other genres, when it comes to filtering out non-talented people.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Kurtis blow - Tough James brown Afrika bambaataa - unity Funky Four + 1 - King Heroin Jazzy jeff- king heroin The rake - street justice Captain rapp - Bad times ( Jimmy jam & Terry lewis )
Fatback band - Is this the future SugarHill gang - Livin in the fast lane Grandmaster Melle melle - white lines Grandmaster Melle melle - Jesse ( endorsing jesse jackson for presidency )
Dr jeckyll & mr hyde ( Andre Harrell )- fast life Divine sounds - what people do for money Afrika Bambaataa feat.John Lydon - World Destruction Project Future - Ray - Gun - Omics Malcolm X / Keith LeBlanc- No Sell Out
Very few groups had long term album deals in the early 80's.So Many releases were independent 12 inch singles.
Run dmc has a few social commentary tracks but ...It's like that ...Is the most popular due to its re release in the 90's & inclusion on a grand theft auto video game.
I'm a dj musician & was born in the 90s. My father & brothers owned soundsystems so i collect a lot of 70's - 80s vinyl as the sound is unique. I could find many more but some recordings are really bad..
eg Mr t , School band recordings etc
Re..The message
Grandmaster flash in his autobiography claims that this recording which they were forced to record caused the breakup of the band.They were told to let an outsider ( Duke Bootee ) replace the groups rappers. Melle mel was the only featured artist from the original group on the track . His verse " a child is born with no state of mind " is recycled from superappin which was recorded before gmff5 signed to sugarhill records.
Melle mel & Flash also mentions the anti drug hypocrisy at the time. As artists were consuming drugs & creating anti drug records
Eg Melle mel - white lines
I guess you have to experience hip hop at an earlier era to really notice the changes & similiarities with Jamaica.
I think the late 80's was a key period as artists evolved with better budgets ,contracts , endorsements & more. There was also a drugs & gun epidemic in the usa & Jamaica..
Planet Rock - The Story Of Hip Hop And The Crack Generation documentary
quote:Kurtis blow - Tough James brown Afrika bambaata - unity Funky Four + 1 - King Heroin Jazzy jeff- king heroin The rake - street justice Captain rapp - Bad times ( Jimmy jam & Terry lewis )
Fatback band - Is this the future SugarHill gang - Livin in the fast lane Grandmaster Melle melle - white lines Grandmaster Melle melle - Jesse ( endorsing jesse jackson for presidency )
Dr jeckyll & mr hyde ( Andre Harrell )- fast life Divine sounds - what people do for mnoney Afrika Bambaataa feat.John Lydon - World Destruction Project Future - Ray - Gun - Omics Malcolm X / Keith LeBlanc- No Sell Out
I knew there were examples other than the two examples I already cited, but couldn't remember them, nor did I feel for it to track them down.
Thanks, will be useful for future reference.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
The problem is, mainstream industries are only taking a particular portion of rap, one that glorifies this lifestyle. Rap on political issues, social change, and more representational lifestyles of blacks is funneled out deliberately. The saddest thing is, the industry for this stuff may very well continue to exist even if we stopped buying it because the primary consumers are white males not black people.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] Actually, Sundiata, your source also makes a clear distinction between ''rapping'' and ''Hip Hop'', with the former being the earlier partying thing, and the latter evolving out of that, similar to what I've been saying.
Not necessarily since Davey D defines Hip Hop as the culture of rap music, not associated with any particular style. These evolved later into sub-genres, as Doug M has pointed out. Rap and expression of Hip Hop culture was the platform upon which people could later disseminate a message of social awareness/consciousness. If what you meant instead was that this consciousnesses was already embedded within the cultural soup that formed, then you'd be correct (see the "5 elements of Hip Hop"), though obviously that's an element that is distinct from the music and is a part of the evolution of the culture its self.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Notice how none of you posted lyrics from that era of hiphop to dissect. I am not suprised. I will oblige you hypocrites.
Sugarhill gang, "Rapper's delight" (excerpted)
i got two big cars that definitely aint the wack i got a lincoln continental and a sunroof cadillac (early form of material glorification, e.g., car)
but i wouldnt give a sucker or a bum from the rucker not a dime til i made it again (early form of hostile and confrontational rap/ hiphop language)
ya say im gonna get a fly girl gonna get some spankin drive off in a def oj everybody go, hotel motel holiday inn say if your girl starts actin up, then you take her friend (early form of of rap misogyny and the beginning of hyper-sexualization in rap)
but he looks like a sucker in a blue and red suit i said you need a man who's got finesse and his whole name across his chest he may be able to fly all through the night but can he rock a party til the early light he cant satisfy you with his little worm but i can bust you out with my super sperm i go do it, i go do it, i go do it, do it , do it (confrontational, "beef," rap in its earliest form)
then she turned around and shook her behind so i said to myself, its time for me to release my vicious rhyme (forrunner to Negro video vixens shaking their behinds in rap videos)
There was a lot more to the lyric but I think that this should suffice, as it drives the point across. I dare any of you to post up lyrics from the 70s and I will easily demonstrate those decadent, social elements to the lyrics.
posted
^No OP. In fact, the thread takes into consideration the origin of rap. Your introduction in the thread states: "It has gone from this to this" as if to imply that Rap had degenerated in its social message and value over time. Well, I challenged that assertion - I set forth an argument to the contrary! Rap has produced what it intended, from the onset of the hip hop movement. Rap and Hip Hop reflect the social dysfunction of a sub-culture, as simple as that. The music will never change until the people change their behavior and outlook on life.
Posts: 1340 | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^No OP. In fact, the thread takes into consideration the origin of rap. Your introduction in the thread states: "It has gone from this to this" as if to imply that Rap had degenerated in its social message and value over time. Well, I challenged that assertion - I set forth an argument to the contrary! Rap has produced what it intended from the onset of the hip hop movement.
"It has gone from this to this" simply means what used to be mainstream to what is mainstream today you idiot! And if you want to argue the origins of rap you can take it all the way back to the west african griots who spoke poetry over beats which is what emceeing is.
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
^Actually, poetry battles or --rap-- over beats goes back to the Anglo Saxxons. And it was called FLYTING. They were the ones who introduced the art to the Negro slaves. The Negroes developed it into their own form of poetic expression called "The Dozens." From The Dozens emerged "emceeing," and then rap.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^Actually, poetry battles or --rap-- over beats goes back to the Anglo Saxxons. And it was called FLYTING. They were the ones who introduced the art to the Negro slaves. The Negroes developed it into their own form of poetic expression called "The Dozens." From The Dozens emerged "emceeing," and then rap.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^No OP. In fact, the thread takes into consideration the origin of rap. Your introduction in the thread states: "It has gone from this to this" as if to imply that Rap had degenerated in its social message and value over time. Well, I challenged that assertion - I set forth an argument to the contrary! Rap has produced what it intended from the onset of the hip hop movement.
"It has gone from this to this" simply means what used to be mainstream to what is mainstream today you idiot! And if you want to argue the origins of rap you can take it all the way back to the west african griots who spoke poetry over beats which is what emceeing is.
Hip-hop has always been about catchy beats and rhymes and what you see now is just a continuation of that. The catchier, the wider the audience that will like it = more sales = more $ for the artist. Far more ppl want to jam rather than hearing good lyrics.
I think Nicki Minaj was a bad example to use for your critique though because she actually spits hard and has a bunch of thoughtful songs aside from the one you posted.
Posts: 214 | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^No OP. In fact, the thread takes into consideration the origin of rap. Your introduction in the thread states: "It has gone from this to this" as if to imply that Rap had degenerated in its social message and value over time. Well, I challenged that assertion - I set forth an argument to the contrary! Rap has produced what it intended from the onset of the hip hop movement.
"It has gone from this to this" simply means what used to be mainstream to what is mainstream today you idiot! And if you want to argue the origins of rap you can take it all the way back to the west african griots who spoke poetry over beats which is what emceeing is.
Hip-hop has always been about catchy beats and rhymes and what you see now is just a continuation of that. The catchier, the wider the audience that will like it = more sales = more $ for the artist. Far more ppl want to jam rather than hearing good lyrics.
I think Nicki Minaj was a bad example to use for your critique though because she actually spits hard and has a bunch of thoughtful songs aside from the one you posted.
So you dont mind young black girls having this woman as there idol
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