As is always the case with the ancient Black civilizations, Whites have spent their time producing falsehood and nonsense, in an attempt to make them appear to be White people, thus they have spent no time in trying to ascertain their true origin. So to this late date, there is still no clear understanding of where the Medes and Persians came from. So then, let us investigate.
By the mid-9th century B.C, two new groups of people appear in Elam, these are the Medes (Mada) and the Persians (Parsua). Of the two, the Medes were the more widespread, and from an Assyrian point of view, the more important group. The Medes were fierce warriors and skilled horse breeders. They were at first organized as independent tribes, however this changed under the tribal chief Deioces, he succeeded in uniting all of the Medes tribes into the kingdom of Media. The Persians (Parsua) continued their migration southward in an area of southwestern Elam that we now call Fars, and made that their home.
The Persians and Medes are first mentioned in the records of Assyrian king Shalmaneser III (859 – 824 B.C.). In these records, Parsuwash (along with Matai of Median) are first mentioned as inhabiting the area of Lake Urmia, which is a salt lake in northwestern Iran, near Iran's border with Turkey, (Lake Matianus is an old name for Lake Urmia. It was the center of the Mannaean Kingdom). The exact identity of the Parsuwash is yet to be determined, but from a linguistic viewpoint the word matches Old Persian pārsa.
Note: though the Persians and Medes would later form a unified people, they did not begin as such, they were originally separate kingdoms.
Approximately 250 years previous, the "Sea People" a conglomeration of Mediterranean warriors and their families seeking new homes, invaded Egypt. The "Sea People" included: The Peleset and Tjeker (Minoans) of Crete, they would later be known as the “Philistines” after they had settled in Southern Canaan. Over time, this area became known by a form of their name “Palestine”. The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia, The Ekwesh and Denen who seem to be identified with the original (Black) Greeks, The Shardana (Sherden) who may be associated with Sardinia, The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi), the Tyrrhenians - the Greek name for the Etruscans, and The Shekelesh (Sicilians?).
After being turned away in defeat by Egyptian king Rameses III, the Sea Peoples invaded Anatolia. There they are reported to have destroyed the central Anatolian Hittite Empire and settled there.
There is just a few problems with that scenario:
There never really was such a thing as a Hittite Empire. The name "Hittite" comes from an entry in the King James Bible (1611 A.D.), and for some unknown reason, White people decided to give this name to what was undoubtedly a Hattic kingdom in Anatolia. Then there is the fact that we cannot identify what was the new kingdom that the Sea Peoples formed. There is no doubt that the Sea Peoples DID displace some native Anatolian people.
Who exactly they were, and where they went to is another unknown. There is the logical possibility that "Some" Sea People remained in Anatolia and settled there, and perhaps "Some" continued eastward. There is circumstantial evidence to support this scenario, and it all points to the Persians as being part of the Sea Peoples who continued on into Elam.
Quotes from the Histories of Herodotus, circa 440 B.C. will be used to support this scenario.
The Colchians:
According to the Greeks, Colchis was a fabulously wealthy land situated on the mysterious periphery of the heroic world. Here in the sacred grove of the war god Ares, King Aeëtes hung the Golden Fleece until it was seized by Jason and the Argonauts. Colchis was also the land where the mythological Prometheus was punished by being chained to a mountain while an eagle ate at his liver for revealing to humanity the secret of fire. Amazons also were said to be from Colchis. The main mythical characters from Colchis are Aeëtes, Medea, Absyrtus, Chalciope, Circe, Eidyia, Pasiphaë. (Medea was the daughter of King Aeëtes of Colchis, niece of Circe, granddaughter of the sun god Helios, and later wife to the hero Jason, with whom she had two children, Mermeros and Pheres).
Book 4 - MELPOMENE
[4.37] The Persians inhabit a country upon the southern or Erythraean sea (The Persian Gulf); above them, to the north, are the Medes; beyond the Medes, the Saspirians; beyond them, the Colchians, reaching to the northern sea (the Black Sea), into which the Phasis empties itself. These four nations fill the whole space from one sea to the other.
Book 2 - EUTERPE
[2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practiced circumcision from the earliest times.
[2.105] I will add a further proof to the identity of the Egyptians and the Colchians. These two nations weave their linen in exactly the same way, and this is a way entirely unknown to the rest of the world; they also in their whole mode of life and in their language resemble one another. The Colchian linen is called by the Greeks Sardinian, while that which comes from Egypt is known as Egyptian.
The Medes:
Book 7 - POLYMNIA
[7.62] The Medes had exactly the same equipment as the Persians; and indeed the dress common to both is not so much Persian as Median. They had for commander Tigranes, of the race of the Achaemenids. These Medes were called anciently by all people Aryans; but when Media, the Colchian, came to them from Athens, they changed their name. Such is the account which they themselves give.
Note: It appears that the Medes were once a Colchian people called Aryans, who then took the name of their new Colchian ruler Media.
PERSIAN INSCRIPTIONS MENTIONING ARYANS
Darius the Great's, Behistun Inscription
70. (4.88-92.) Darius the King says: By the favor of Ahuramazda this is the inscription which I made. Besides, it was in Aryan, and on clay tablets and on parchment it was composed. Besides, a sculptured figure of myself I made. Besides, I made my lineage. And it was inscribed and was read off before me. Afterwards this inscription I sent off everywhere among the provinces. The people unitedly worked upon it.
Inscriptions on south face of steep ridge north of Persepolis
2. (8-15.) I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.
Note: Aryan and Arian is used interchangeably depending on translator. However it is preferable to reserve Aryan for the Persians and Arian for the White central Asian people.
The Persians:
The people of Argos (Greece) and the Persians share the same linage.
Book 7 - POLYMNIA
[7.150] Such is the account which is given of these matters by the Argives themselves. There is another story, which is told generally through Greece, of a different tenor. Xerxes, it is said, before he set forth on his expedition against Greece, sent a herald to Argos, who on his arrival spoke as follows: "Men of Argos, King Xerxes speaks thus to you. We Persians deem that the Perses from whom we descend was the child of Perseus the son of Danae, and of Andromeda the daughter of Cepheus. Hereby it would seem that we come of your stock and lineage. So then it neither befits us to make war upon those from whom we spring; nor can it be right for you to fight, on behalf of others, against us. Your place is to keep quiet and hold yourself aloof. Only let matters proceed as I wish, and there is no people whom I shall have in higher esteem than you."
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The original Proto- Saharan tribes of Central Asia were known as the Kushana, Yuehshih, Mandaga (Manda > Mande), and Kasu. The four kingdoms of Saka were the Maga (Manga), Masaka, Mansa and Mandaga (Manda). The term Saka, now used to describe a late Indo-European group that conquered Central Asia formerly was used to refer to the Kushites/Proto-Saharans of ancient Central Asia. The name Maga, reminds us of the Magians or Maka, of the Persian inscriptions who lived in Media.
The ancient Sumerian name for Medea ,was Mada. One of the six tribes of Mada,was the "Mages" or "Magu" in Persian. The name Mage signified "the great,the High". Herodotus, claimed the the Medes came from Athens. This would support a Mande origin.
Mede
.
Many cities of eastern Greece were early settled by the Manding speakers who presently live in West Africa. Moreover, in the Manding languages "Maga" means 'great". Moreover, the name of the King of the Soninke (Manding) speaking empire of Ghana (300 BC to AD 1100) was called Manda.
The Magians or Medians, were probably descendants of the Manding tribes which also included the Garamantes of European and Libyan fame, and in Asia under the name of Mandaga/Medians. This view is supported by linguistic, historical and cultural data.
Mede taking horses to Sargon
.
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages. In addition the term Mandaga agrees with the title of the Manding tribes: for example, Manda agrees with Mande, the name of major group of Africans, who along with the Dravidians settled many parts of Asia.
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I mean what type of crack are you on, these guys look white, they have pointy boney noses and thin lips. Sure there are a few Africans who may have these traits but they are rare. Anyone with an ounce of sense would easily say that the features of these men are much more typical of Europeans or Arabs.
Look, try the following experiment. Print out the above picture, remove or cover up the caption, and make copies. On each copy list these questions:
1) where do you think the following people might come from?
2) How old do you think this sculpture might be?
3) Do these people look more like black people or white people?
.
^^^^^^Now give some random people (of various races) copies of the picture with these questions written below the picture. Don't say anything that might persuade them to a particular answer. Give this questionnaire to about 10 or more people. Just say you are doing some research could you answer these three questions.
Let's see who wins lioness or Mike
.
Posted by kikuyu2 (Member # 19316) on :
I mean what type of crack are you on, these guys look white, they have pointy boney noses and thin lips. Sure there are a few Africans who may have these traits but they are rare. Anyone with an ounce of sense would easily say that the features of these men are much more typical of Europeans or Arabs.
Look, try the following experiment. Print out the above picture, remove or cover up the caption, and make copies. On each copy list these questions:
1) where do you think the following people might come from?
2) How old do you think this sculpture might be?
3) Do these people look more like black people or white people?
.
^^^^^^Now give some random people (of various races) copies of the picture with these questions written below the picture. Don't say anything that might persuade them to a particular answer. Give this questionnaire to about 10 or more people. Just say you are doing some research could you answer these three questions.
Let's see who wins lioness or Mike
.
quote:
Clyde has provided linguistic, eye witness and genetic proof for his theory. Your 'test' is too subjective to be taken seriously.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^stop hurting Mike
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
YOU ARE NOT A PERSIAN FOOL!
Read your OWN history FOOL!
If you need help, ask me specific questions FOOL!
BTW - Those people are Mulattoes - FOOL!
THIS is YOUR people, FOOL!
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Trying to say we are Turks? LOL. Turks came from Mongolia and Siberia they invaded Central Asia and then Iran and Turkey. Their languages are under the mongoloid family branch. Most of the Turks in West Asia are Turkified natives. Even the Cenral Asian Turks are only partialy mongoloid, just look at Turkmenistan.
Why don't all the Iranian speaking people speak a Turkic language? why only a few who were Turkified and call themselves Turks. In Iran, Persian is only one of the Iranian languages, their is Kurdish,Gilak,Mazdarani,Talysh,Gorani,Lori,Balochi. For some reason why did all these groups keep their language and identity from the ancient times?
Also those pictures are of Qajars, the Qajars were Turkic family, but they were mostly Turkified Azaris, who were speaking a Iranian langauge like all the other groups. Even the name Azari is persian in origin.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Captain00 - People like you are truly annoying. You come here full of the lies of your people, never bothering to research anything. Leaving it to others to educate you.
Check you Turk mulatto cousins in Egypt, do you think that they are Egyptians, like you are Persian?
Silly, ignorant people!
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
No it is you who makes up lies and nonsense to feel good about your self. The people of Iran are the descendeds of the ancient Iranians in every aspect. Nothing of your twisted history claim can change that it is our history and heritage not yours.
Egyptians are not Turks, do they look like Siberians and speak a Turkic language?
Your fantasy that everyone is a Turk is laughable. Please go and do your own research on Turks, they were Mongoloids and came with the Mongol invasion. Turks in Central Asia and Mongolia are what Turks look like.
Turks in Turkey even have some Mongoloid DNA, that is low or absent among other Middle-Eastners.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Capt. Please do not mistake Mike and his ilk for the normal posters on E.S. Mike wants desperatly for the Persians to be black due to his inforitiy complex. Many here have already explained that the Persians were whites and no different than many modern day Iranians.
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
Al Jahiz-Glory of the Sudan to Bidan(Blacks over the Whites)..9th Century
"I was sent to all mankind - the black and the red".
بعثت إلى الناس كافة الأحمر والأسود
Ibn Al-Athir said:
"The hadith says: 'I was sent to the black and the red (white/light-skinned)' - meaning the non-Arabs (Persians, etc) and the Arabs; because most non-Arabs (Persians etc) are red and white (light-skinned) and most Arabs are very dark-skinned and dark-skinned."
قال ابن الأثير: فيه "بعثت إلى الأحمر والأسود" أي العجم والعرب ؛ لأن الغالب على ألوان العجم الحُمْرة والبياض ، وعلى ألوان العرب الأُدْمَة والسُمرة
Mike is a fraud...
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Capt. Please do not mistake Mike and his ilk for the normal posters on E.S. Mike wants desperatly for the Persians to be black due to his inforitiy complex. Many here have already explained that the Persians were whites and no different than many modern day Iranians.
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
Al Jahiz-Glory of the Sudan to Bidan(Blacks over the Whites)..9th Century
"I was sent to all mankind - the black and the red".
بعثت إلى الناس كافة الأحمر والأسود
Ibn Al-Athir said:
"The hadith says: 'I was sent to the black and the red (white/light-skinned)' - meaning the non-Arabs (Persians, etc) and the Arabs; because most non-Arabs (Persians etc) are red and white (light-skinned) and most Arabs are very dark-skinned and dark-skinned."
قال ابن الأثير: فيه "بعثت إلى الأحمر والأسود" أي العجم والعرب ؛ لأن الغالب على ألوان العجم الحُمْرة والبياض ، وعلى ألوان العرب الأُدْمَة والسُمرة
Mike is a fraud...
Mike soon come post out him tripe....
and here it comes.....
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
The Persians may not be White in the modern sense(Anglo or Germanic) but they were historically seen as whites by the Arabs, Greco-Romans, etc. I don't agree that the Persians were the Neo-Nazi defintion of "Aryan"(blond hair and Blue eyes) nor do they have anything to do with Western and Northern Europeans.
But to be clar there were some Tribes in PErsia described as Red Haired and blue eyed.
Some Modern Persians AKA "Iranians" look nothing like Turks nor like Arabs. Hell Id piss my pants if some of them were not called "White" in America esp. if they spoke with out an accent and fully assimilated.
Lets not forget that Perisa was heavily involved with slaves, both mamluk and Zanj.(African) Don't forget about the famous Zanj revolt which resulted in Highly racist slandering of the Zanj by Persian intellectuals(Which is commonly used as proof of black hatred by muslims on White Racist and White Nationalist sites). Don't forget Persia's most famous Scholar Al-Jahiz from Basra was of African origin.
To this day Al-Jahiz's decendants and that of the Zanj still face oppresion in Basra from the Persians...
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Damm you people are crazy the Ancient Iranians were from Central Asia, they resembled todays Afghans the most as they live near the region that was the homeland of the Indo-Iranians.
Curly hair can found all around the world. The ancient reliefs just show a art foom rather then what they looked like, even Assyrian reliefs have themselves with curly hair.
My people are not not white and nor are we black. Stop trying steal my peoples history with your wacko claims. Iranians are proud of their history and don't need people trying to make claim with some nonsense like you crazy Afronuts and white Nordics claiming rubish claim about white Aryans.
a Iranian with who looks like the ancient reliefs.
Iran is a very hot country and here are pictures of Iranian with dark tans, look like.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Yeah but Persia AKA Iran has had quite a number of people migrating esp. after the expansion of Islam. Alot of Persians probably mixed with Arabs, Turks, Africans, also Indians possibly. I would agree that Persians are not "white" in the modern sense but some do share features typical of Southern Europeans.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
Yes, there are reasonable and non-obssessive folks on this board lol.
btw, a superiority complex is nothing more than the manifestation of one's interior feeling of inferiority....
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
You originally said PERSIANS!!
If you had said IRANIANS - even though there is no such ethnicity, I would have answered differently.
BTW - Central Asians WERE White Europeans and Nordics.
BTW TruthAndRights - Knowing the subject matter, and being able to articulate it correctly, in the correct vernacular, IS in this environment - superior.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Name Change
In 1935 the Iranian government requested those countries with which it had diplomatic relations, to call Persia "Iran". The suggestion for the change is said to have come from the Iranian ambassador to Germany, who came under the influence of the Nazis. At the time Germany was in the grip of racial fever and cultivated good relations with nations of "Arian" blood. It is said that some German friends of the ambassador persuaded him that, as with the advent of Reza Shah, Persia had turned a new leaf in its history. It was only fitting that the country be called "Iran." This would not only signal a new beginning, and bring home to the world, the new era in history, but would also signify the NOW Arian race of its population, as "Iran" is a cognate of "Arian" and derived from it.
The literal meaning is often given as Iran = "Land of the Arians".
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Iranians themselves never reffered to Iran as Persia, it was Aryanam and the Sassanids were the ones who coined up the term E-ran.
Please don't mix the nonsense of the nazi's with iran. Europeans just want make claim to history of iran.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by kikuyu2: Clyde has provided linguistic, eye witness and genetic proof for his theory. Your 'test' is too subjective to be taken seriously.
It ALWAYS is. I wish she'd shut her pie hole and allow the Professor to teach!
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^^^^ M.K I think you have the wrong thread..??
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
For the life of me I can't find any studies on modern Iranian Genetics..
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Iranians themselves never reffered to Iran as Persia, it was Aryanam and the Sassanids were the ones who coined up the term E-ran.
Please don't mix the nonsense of the nazi's with iran. Europeans just want make claim to history of iran.
Yes, you are correct, it WAS Aryanam (the word is actually "Achaemenians") and the Sassanians who PERSIA refers to. Aryans is what the Medes were originally called.
It is in the north-central Zagros region that we first find mention of Parsua, a nation that many regard as a predecessor nation to Parsa or Persia. This mention was in an inscription from 844 BCE that records an Assyrian military expedition into the Zagros.
We first hear about Parsua in the inscriptions of Assyrian King Shalmaneser III (859-824 BCE) who, in the fashion of other Assyrian kings, maintained a record of his campaigns. In 844 BCE, Shalmaneser overran northern Zamua, the Mannaean kingdom around Lake Urmia, Allabria (often associated with Mannea), Parsua, Madai (Media), Araziash (later associated with Media), and Harhar. [Harhar (around present-day Kermanshah) which stood at the western entrance to Media lands eventually became Assyria's administrative centre for Media.]
In the inscriptions recording these plundering raids, Shalmaneser states that he extracted tribute from twenty-seven kings or chieftains of Parsua. With the considerable number of groups or nations mentioned in Shalmaneser's inscriptions, we are also introduced to the concept that the Parsa and other peoples of the region were organized as a large number of distinct groups - each ruled by local kings or chieftains (rather than a few united kingdoms). We therefore gather from the Assyrian inscriptions that until this time in history, the Medes and the Persians were organized as loose federations of autonomous districts - each district with its own king or chief.
The Parsua later migrated south, into what is now called Fars, in southwestern Iran.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
TruthAndRights - After I am finished with this ignoramus, who doesn't even know his own countries history, I would gladly teach a little on the history of Jamaica.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
It was Aryana/Aryanam before Eran, not the name of dynasty achaemenids. I think I know the history of my people better then you.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^^^^ M.K I think you have the wrong thread..??
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Yes their has been some mixing, but I don't think the genetics has changed much since the ancient times as tribes like Lors and Kurds keep to themselves. The homeland of Iranians was central Asia. People like the Afghans and Tajiks resemble maybe what early iranians looked like.
For the life of me I can't find any studies on modern Iranian Genetics..
Their are some on the web somewhere, just do a Google search. But I am sure iranians are a mix of west Asians and central Asians.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Arya means Nobel. It has no racial meaning.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Arya means Nobel. It has no racial meaning.
It was what tribes used also refer to themselves as they were related tribes hence "land of aryans". Their is town called Aryan in Kurdistan province.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^No point Clyde, this Captain00 kid is an ignoramus.
Has anyone noticed how ignorant these middle eastern types are of their own history?
Don't they have schools, or is it that they simply lie to each other.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Lies? Don't make me laugh. People of iran know their history better then outsiders.
I don't why I even reply to such nonsense. See you and khoda hefez
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: I don't think everyone here is like that guy Mike. I am sure their are reasnoble people on here.
I don't consider us Iranians as white as the term is for Europeans and Nordics, who even make crazy claims that ancient Iranians were Nordic, which is nonsense. Ancient Iranians resembled today's iranians. Who had came from central Asia and mixed with the natives..
You originally said PERSIANS!!
If you had said IRANIANS - even though there is no such ethnicity, I would have answered differently.
BTW - Central Asians WERE White Europeans and Nordics.
BTW TruthAndRights - Knowing the subject matter, and being able to articulate it correctly, in the correct vernacular, IS in this environment - superior.
Mi throw mi corn, mi nuh call no fowl...ah you choose fe pick it up....
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: TruthAndRights - After I am finished with this ignoramus, who doesn't even know his own countries history, I would gladly teach a little on the history of Jamaica.
Considering that is the land of my birth and where I grew up- my HOMELAND, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you can do so....YANKEE BLOODCLAAT BWOY worry bout ya owna roots...I will worry bout mine...remember you must read it- but dat place deh you READ fe learn bout (or maybe you travel visit and stay in tourist areas; when I visit I stay with my family- no tourist ting for mi), MI DID BAWN AND GROW DEH MI FAMILY LIVE DEH AND MI WILL RETURN DEH UPON RETIREMENT IF NOT SOONER....LOL I DON'T EVEN HAVE AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP....you can NEVA know Jamdung like mi or Brada...
KMRT your arrogance knows no bounds, eeeeeh? You cyan draw mi out tiday doah....
claffy and everyone seet but you and your yes-man dem Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Lies? Don't make me laugh. People of iran know their history better then outsiders.
I don't why I even reply to such nonsense. See you and khoda hefez
TruthAndRights - That sounds pretty much the same as your statement.
Obviously Captain00 knows nothing of Persian history, so it just being a place of ones birth, means nothing.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
William Leo Hansberry gives a great discussion of the evidence of African Kushites ruling in Asia and Africa. Some ancient scholars noted that the first rulers of Elam were of Kushite ( Kerma ? ) origin. According to Strabo, the first Elamite colony at Susa was founded by Tithnus, a King of Kush. Strabo in Book 15, Chapter 3728 wrote that in fact it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians. Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Here is King Xerxes and other Persian Brothers .
William Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook, (1981) Volume 2 noted that:
In Persia the old Negroid element seems indeed to have been sufficiently powerful to maintain the overlord of the land. For the Negritic strain is clearly evident in statuary depicting members of the royal family ruling in the second millenium B.C.
Hundreds of years later, when Xerxes invaded Greece, the type was well represented in the Persian army. In the remote mountain regions bordering on Persia and Baluchistan, there is to be found at the present time a Negroid element which bears a remarkable resemblance to the type represented on the ancient mounments. Hence the Negritic or Ethiopian type has proved persistent in this area, and in ancient times it seems to have constituted numerically and socially an important factor in the population" (p.52) .
Enjoy
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Persians spoke Old Persian which was Elamite. So why can't they be called Elamites?
The ancient Persians wrote in Elamite. Aryan is not an ethnonyn. Aryan just means nobel.
The people ruling Iran today are not Persians. They do not speak the Persian languages.
The Classical writers said the Elamites were Kushites.
I believe the Kushites introduced Eb3 to Eurasia. Luis, et. al argue that the presence of Egyptian lineage (E3b1-M78)(c.7.8kya) is consistent with northbound migrations of this haplotype - thru the levant - reflected in M78 males as far north as Turkey (c.4.8kya) .In Asia the Kushites were called Kushiya.
The date 4.8ky is very interesting. It is around this time that we find the rise of a number of Kushite tribes in the region: the Kassites, the Kaska and the Hattian tribes in Anatolia. It was probably these Kushite tribes that introduced the second wave of Eb3b1-M78 lineages into Turkey.
For example, the Elamites called themselves KHATAM, and their capital Susa:KUSSI. In addition, the Kassites, who occupied the central part of the Zagros mountains were called KASHSHU. The Kushana, formerly occupied Chinese Turkistan (Xinjiang) and the Gansu province of China.
The Kushites in Asia, as in Africa were known for their skill as bowmen :Steu , the name of the people of Ta-Seti.
The decipherer of the cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia, Rawlingson, said Puntites and Kushites were established in Asia. He found mention of Kushiya and Puntiya in the inscriptions of Darius. He also made it clear that the name Kush was also applied to southern Persia, India, Elam, Arabia, and Colchis (a part of southern Russia/Turkistan) in ancient times.
The Armenians made it clear that the ancients called Persia, Media,Elam Aria, and the entire area between the Tigris and Indus rivers Kush. Bardesones, writing in his Book of the Laws of Countries, in the 2nd Century said that the "Bactrians who we called Qushani (or Kushans)".
The Armenians, called the earlier Parthian: Kushan and acknowledged their connection with them. Homer, Herodotus, and the Roman scholar Strabo called southern Persia AETHIOPIA. The Greeks and Romans called the country east of Kerma: Kusan.
.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Oh my this thread has started geting full of non sense, specialy those comedy pictures above and using Afrocentric sources and making up nonsense.
I have already said what I came to say. Even a member on here provided sources that say what the Ancient Iranians(including Persians) looked like their is even a painting/Mosiac a of Darius III that shows how people saw Persians and they looked pretty similar to what ehy looked like today. My ancestors came from Central Asia, our languages are all related to eachother and have a common origin in Central Asia.
I am proud of my ancestors and what they did, you nuts will not change anything with your fantasy.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Persians spoke Old Persian which was Elamite. So why can't they be called Elamites?
The ancient Persians wrote in Elamite. Aryan is not an ethnonyn. Aryan just means nobel.
The people ruling Iran today are not Persians. They do not speak the Persian languages.
The Classical writers said the Elamites were Kushites.
I believe the Kushites introduced Eb3 to Eurasia. Luis, et. al argue that the presence of Egyptian lineage (E3b1-M78)(c.7.8kya) is consistent with northbound migrations of this haplotype - thru the levant - reflected in M78 males as far north as Turkey (c.4.8kya) .In Asia the Kushites were called Kushiya.
The date 4.8ky is very interesting. It is around this time that we find the rise of a number of Kushite tribes in the region: the Kassites, the Kaska and the Hattian tribes in Anatolia. It was probably these Kushite tribes that introduced the second wave of Eb3b1-M78 lineages into Turkey.
For example, the Elamites called themselves KHATAM, and their capital Susa:KUSSI. In addition, the Kassites, who occupied the central part of the Zagros mountains were called KASHSHU. The Kushana, formerly occupied Chinese Turkistan (Xinjiang) and the Gansu province of China.
The Kushites in Asia, as in Africa were known for their skill as bowmen :Steu , the name of the people of Ta-Seti.
The decipherer of the cuneiform writing of Mesopotamia, Rawlingson, said Puntites and Kushites were established in Asia. He found mention of Kushiya and Puntiya in the inscriptions of Darius. He also made it clear that the name Kush was also applied to southern Persia, India, Elam, Arabia, and Colchis (a part of southern Russia/Turkistan) in ancient times.
The Armenians made it clear that the ancients called Persia, Media,Elam Aria, and the entire area between the Tigris and Indus rivers Kush. Bardesones, writing in his Book of the Laws of Countries, in the 2nd Century said that the "Bactrians who we called Qushani (or Kushans)".
The Armenians, called the earlier Parthian: Kushan and acknowledged their connection with them. Homer, Herodotus, and the Roman scholar Strabo called southern Persia AETHIOPIA. The Greeks and Romans called the country east of Kerma: Kusan.
.
What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Clyde - I am still trying to find an accurate translation for Darius's tomb inscriptions. The translations that I have found do not match the subjects holding up the throne.
The inscriptions on the upper and central registers of his tomb (DNa and DNb) are well-known, but there are several smaller texts on the same monument: two trilingual honorific inscriptions for the courtiers Gobryas and Aspathines, and inscriptions naming the figures supporting Darius' throne. Because inscription DNe mentions Macedonians, it must have been made after 512 B.C.
Inscription DNe, identifies the people holding up his throne.
1. This is the Persian. 2. This is the Mede. 3. This is the Elamite. 4. This is the Parthian. 5. This is the Arian. 6. This is the Bactrian. 7. This is the Sogdian. 8. This is the Chorasmian. 9. This is the Drangian. 10. This is the Arachosian. 11. This is the Sattagydian. 12. This is the Gandaran. 13. This is the man of Sind. 14. This is the haoma-drinking Saca.
15. This is the Saca with the pointed hat. 16. This is the Babylonian. 17. This is the Syrian. 18. This is the Arab. 19. This is the Egyptian. 20. This is the Armenian. 21. This is the Cappadocian. 22. This is the Lydian. 23. This is the Greek. 24. This is the Scythian from across the sea. 25. This is the Thracian. 26. This is the Macedonian. 27. This is the Libyan. 28. This is the Kushite. 29. This is the man of Maka. 30. This is the Carian.
This is the man of Maka.
This is the Carian.
Clyde - Do you know of anyone who has actually seen and translated the inscriptions?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
Clyde of the above two categories which category do the below Iranians fall into?
Posted by kikuyu2 (Member # 19316) on :
What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
quote:
Captain00,someone once said "if you can't support your theory with facts and figures,its time to change your mind"-or words to that effect. Winters has facts and figures while you have only dogma,or the lies you've internalised like most of your countrymen. This isn't a flamewar. Let's hear all the evidence supporting your case indicating there were never Africans in ancient Elam/Susa/Babylon or that if they were present,they were insignificant slaves.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
The term Persian translates to "from or of Persis" which is a region north of the Persian Gulf located in Pars, Iran. It was from this region that Cyrus the Great the founder of the Achaemenid empire, united all other Iranian empires (such as the Medes and the Elamites), and expanded the Persian cultural and social influences by incorporating the Babylonian empire, and the Lydian empire. Although not the first Iranian empire, the Achaemenid empire is the first Persian empire well recognized by Greek and Persian historians for its massive cultural, military and social influences going as far as Athens, Egypt, and Libya
>>>>Old Persian, the main language of the Achaemenid inscriptions, should not be confused with the non-Indo-European Elamite language (see Behistun inscription).
In the Sassanid Empire the intermingling of Persians, Medes, Parthians, Bactrians and indigenous people of Iran, including the Elamites gained more ground and a homogeneous Iranian identity was created to the extent that all were just called Iranians/Persians irrespective of clannish affiliations and regional linguistic or dialectical alterities. The Elamite language may have survived as late as the early Islamic period. Ibn al-Nadim among other medieval historians, for instance, wrote that "The Iranian languages are Fahlavi (Pahlavi), Dari, Khuzi, Persian and Suryani", and Ibn Moqaffa noted that Khuzi was the unofficial language of the royalty of Persia, "Khuz" being the corrupted name for Elam. However the Elamite identity might have vanished already. As to Strabo, the Cyrtians who were plausibly the ancestors of the modern Kurds were called one of the Persian tribes. Cyrtians, the generally accepted progenitors of the Kurds and Lurs might already have been significantly scattered in the Zagros from Persis into Media
ELAMITE
A man with thick large scale curls and thin lips
this is supposed to prove he was black? who takes this seriously?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Please site one scholarly source other than Clyde Winters which says the Elamite language is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
Heres the picture I posted earlier, that shows that Persians today can look like the reliefs. .
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
What Evidence did he present? he made up a bunch of connections with his own mind and came to a conclusion. No credible historian supports his ludacris claim. He used a afrocentric source for one of his claims and presented funny pictures where some of them even have been altered.
Their are many credible sources about who the Medes and Persians, were. Kurds in the North are the descendeds of the Medes. Their was a Median tribe called the Maji. Today their is Kurdish language called "Kurmanji". In the middle-ages it was written as "Kurmaji", meaning the children of Maji. So Clydes claim that Medes were African is just utter nonsense. The Medes even had 2 Scythian tribes among them.
Medes and Scythians were very close, because they were related tribes who spoke a similar language, the Sycthians were always described as light haired and light eyes.
The Lors in Iran, still wear the hats that the Medes wore.
Sycthian and a Mede
Persians came from Central Asia just like all other Iranian tribes and first settled around like Urmia as mentioned in Assyrian records and later they moved to the south.
The Elamites were a mix of Middle-Easteners and Dravidians they were dark skinned. The Tamil people in india are what they looked like. Persians were not Elamties, they were influenced by them. Their are today Arabs living in the region where the Elamites lived.
quote:Originally posted by kikuyu2: What a bunch of BS, the Persians occupied the Elamites and were influenced by them in culture, they were not Elamites themselves. Persians created their own writing and had their own language that was similar to the Medes and other Iranian languages that Greeks mentioned.
Persians are not Persians? LOL. What you believe my ancestors were some Turks who came from Siberia? LOL, like your loonie brother Mike?
Trying to use nonsense such as having similar sounding words and connecting with Africa is laughable. The Kushan were a indo-european people from central asia .
Just because words sound similar does not mean they some how have connection to some other people on a different part of the world. I don't know how you come up with that none sense.
quote:
Captain00,someone once said "if you can't support your theory with facts and figures,its time to change your mind"-or words to that effect. Winters has facts and figures while you have only dogma,or the lies you've internalised like most of your countrymen. This isn't a flamewar. Let's hear all the evidence supporting your case indicating there were never Africans in ancient Elam/Susa/Babylon or that if they were present,they were insignificant slaves.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
I mysekf believe the Elamites were likely a mix of Middle-Eastner semites and Dravidians. But I do not think they came from Africa.
Also I have already present mike with Persians with curly hair that resemble the ancient reliefs, yet he ignores it. Even a picture of Darius the great with his natural hair.
Clyde winters, on the other hand seems lke a loonie, from reading his other theorys on the board, no point in even replying to his posts.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The term Persian translates to "from or of Persis" which is a region north of the Persian Gulf located in Pars, Iran. It was from this region that Cyrus the Great the founder of the Achaemenid empire, united all other Iranian empires (such as the Medes and the Elamites), and expanded the Persian cultural and social influences by incorporating the Babylonian empire, and the Lydian empire. Although not the first Iranian empire, the Achaemenid empire is the first Persian empire well recognized by Greek and Persian historians for its massive cultural, military and social influences going as far as Athens, Egypt, and Libya
>>>>Old Persian, the main language of the Achaemenid inscriptions, should not be confused with the non-Indo-European Elamite language (see Behistun inscription).
In the Sassanid Empire the intermingling of Persians, Medes, Parthians, Bactrians and indigenous people of Iran, including the Elamites gained more ground and a homogeneous Iranian identity was created to the extent that all were just called Iranians/Persians irrespective of clannish affiliations and regional linguistic or dialectical alterities. The Elamite language may have survived as late as the early Islamic period. Ibn al-Nadim among other medieval historians, for instance, wrote that "The Iranian languages are Fahlavi (Pahlavi), Dari, Khuzi, Persian and Suryani", and Ibn Moqaffa noted that Khuzi was the unofficial language of the royalty of Persia, "Khuz" being the corrupted name for Elam. However the Elamite identity might have vanished already. As to Strabo, the Cyrtians who were plausibly the ancestors of the modern Kurds were called one of the Persian tribes. Cyrtians, the generally accepted progenitors of the Kurds and Lurs might already have been significantly scattered in the Zagros from Persis into Media
ELAMITE
A man with thick large scale curls and thin lips
this is supposed to prove he was black? who takes this seriously?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Please site one scholarly source other than Clyde Winters which says the Elamite language is genetically related to the Manding languages.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
I opened a new thread about hair, just for nitwits like you. Yet you ignore it and continue with your hopeless quest to be a Persian - how silly. But not new, your mulatto cousins in Egypt went through the same thing.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
First of all Darius hair is not pulled and tied like the girls, his look naturaly straight from the top like all near his ears.
You claim that my ancesors were black is still utter nonsense, I have shown you pictures of Persians with curly hair, it is not a rare thing in Iran, you even have it among Europeans. My own mother has curly wavy hair.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - Here is a blow-up of Darius's tomb at Naqsh-e Rostam. When you find someone who looks like you, point him out.
I opened a new thread about hair, just for nitwits like you. Yet you ignore it and continue with your hopeless quest to be a Persian - how silly. But not new, your mulatto cousins in Egypt went through the same thing.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Captain00 - In the hope that sense will penetrate your thick wanna-be skull:
THIS IS HOW THE PERSIANS DEPICTED "WHITE" PEOPLE!
AND THIS IS HOW THEY DEPICTED "MULATTOES".
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Captain00 quote: "You claim that my ancesors were black is still utter nonsense, I have shown you pictures of Persians with curly hair, it is not a rare thing in Iran, you even have it among Europeans. My own mother has curly wavy hair."
Who said that they were YOUR ancestors?
Prove your connection to that country as it originally was! Americans can't do it - and neither can you!
YOU SHOW ME A PICTURE OF A PERSIAN WHO LOOKS LIKE YOU!
PERSIANS - IN COLOR!
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Wannabe? They are my ancestors not yours. They depicated others differently then to themselves where they had more art to their own images and they curled their beards, under their helmets their hairs were all straight like the Darius's pictures.
Wavy hair is not uncomon among Iranian people and wavy hair is also not uncomon in other Middle-Eastern populations, it's not something exlusive to Africa.
Your wet dream that they were your ancestors is just fantasy you should wake up.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - In the hope that sense will penetrate your thick wanna-be skull:
THIS IS HOW THE PERSIANS DEPICTED "WHITE" PEOPLE!
AND THIS IS HOW THEY DEPICTED "MULATTOES".
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
As usual a complete distortion of classical quotes from the afrocentrics.
Firstly the ethiopian Memnon was from the ASIATIC Ethiopia, not the African Ethiopia. We know this because Herodotus, Aeschylus and other ancient writers placed Memnon in Susa.
The eastern ethiopia of Greek mythology sat in the middle-east, not africa. There were two ethiopian kingdoms. The western ethiopia was the ethiopia of the black africans, the eastern ethiopians however were straight haired and not black (read Herodotus).
Princess Andromeda of the ethiopia in asia was white skinned. See the following sources: Philostr. Imag. i. 29; Heliodorus. Aeth. iv. 8
Furthermore the claim the people of Colchis were black is another lie.
Hippocrates wrote the people of Colchis were sallow (white-yellow) skinned.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Hippocrates on the skin of the Colchians:
''They have a sallow flesh, as if victims of jaundice"
- Airs, Waters, Places 15.
DICTIONARY -
sal·low/ˈsalō/ Verb: Make sallow. Adjective: (of a person's complexion) Of an unhealthy yellowish color
In the original greek it translates as ''pale yellowish''.
How many negroids have a dull yellowish hue?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: As usual a complete distortion of classical quotes from the afrocentrics.
Firstly the ethiopian Memnon was from the ASIATIC Ethiopia, not the African Ethiopia. We know this because Herodotus, Aeschylus and other ancient writers placed Memnon in Susa.
The eastern ethiopia of Greek mythology sat in the middle-east, not africa. There were two ethiopian kingdoms. The western ethiopia was the ethiopia of the black africans, the eastern ethiopians however were straight haired and not black (read Herodotus).
Princess Andromeda of the ethiopia in asia was white skinned. See the following sources: Philostr. Imag. i. 29; Heliodorus. Aeth. iv. 8
Furthermore the claim the people of Colchis were black is another lie.
Hippocrates wrote the people of Colchis were sallow (white-yellow) skinned.
.
cassiterides - Being a gender-conflicted Albino, I can't blame you for lying, just like I can't blame Lioness - it's a genetic thing.
[7.70] The eastern Ethiopians - for two nations of this name served in the army - were marshalled with the Indians. They differed in nothing from the other Ethiopians, save in their language, and the character of their hair. For the eastern Ethiopians have straight hair, while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world.
The Persian Wars by Herodotus
Book 1 - CLIO
[2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Those are Elamite Soldiers not Persians, I have already shown you pictures of Iranians who are tanned and they appear a redish tan, similar. South Iran is hot, people always use to spent their times out doors in the past, specialy soldiers that were training all the time.
Lors who are always out doors people and live near Fars, you can see how dark they can get.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 quote: "You claim that my ancesors were black is still utter nonsense, I have shown you pictures of Persians with curly hair, it is not a rare thing in Iran, you even have it among Europeans. My own mother has curly wavy hair."
Who said that they were YOUR ancestors?
Prove your connection to that country as it originally was! Americans can't do it - and neither can you!
YOU SHOW ME A PICTURE OF A PERSIAN WHO LOOKS LIKE YOU!
PERSIANS - IN COLOR!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^ What a simpleton you are!
What is the difference except the hat?
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
You seem to have logic of a child, the Persians had many different soldiers in their army, those in color are Elamites. Even Elamites had straight hair. They would of also had been tanned darker, as they were already dark.
The picture I provided clearly shows that Iranians can get darker by tan. The Original Iranians were not pale skinned like Northern Europeans they were similar to Afghans and tanned quickly. My uncle who lives in Iran, is much darker then my father because he is always out doors in Iran.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Captain00 - When you are through with your silly pretensions, I will explain to you who you really are.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
Yes I am actually a Turk , what a bunch of BS.
Going now as this geting idiotic, see you, loonie bin.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: You seem to have logic of a child, the Persians had many different soldiers in their army, those in color are Elamites. Even Elamites had straight hair. They would of also had been tanned darker, as they were already dark.
The picture I provided clearly shows that Iranians can get darker by tan. The Original Iranians were not pale skinned like Northern Europeans they were similar to Afghans and tanned quickly. My uncle who lives in Iran, is much darker then my father because he is always out doors in Iran.
Damn you're STUPID!
Does that make sense to even you?
Whether or not you can emotionally accept it: you and your people have nothing to do with those cultures or people. YOU ARE ALBINO INVADERS OR THE MULATTOES OF THOSE INVADERS!
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Going now as this geting idiotic, see you, loonie bin. =================
Mike also thinks the ancient japanese, chinese, eskimos, celts, vikings, romans, greeks were black africans with afros.
Debating him is like talking to a brick wall, he will refuse all evidence which debunks his fairytales. Furthermore If you go to his website he claims white people sprung from indian albinos. There is more crackpottery as well.
However despite Mikes insanity, he is not the most crazy here. Another mad black guy called egmond codfried claims that europe was black until the 17th or 18th century and that white people are only something like 200 years old. He thinks henry VIII for example was a negro.
You cannot reason with 'loonie bins', so i don't blame you for leaving.
Posted by Captain00 (Member # 19326) on :
One last thing what a bunch of BS. The Elamites were different from Persians, and some those things you presented like the african head found in persepolis is just a nonsense. The Elamites were Dravidians not Africans.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
In the Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Dravidian languages words are formed by adding an affix to a radical. In this section we will discuss certain aspects of shared Proto-Saharan morphology.
In these languages suffixes are usually used to create words. These suffixes can be a single consonant (C) or vowel (V), or a monosyllabic form (CV). The most common suffix in Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Sumerian are the postfixes -ki, -ka and -ta , which are used to denote clans, nationality, lands and countries .
PLURAL
In the Proto-Saharan languages the plural is formed by adding -u,-w,-ba, -pa and -lu.In Egyptian, the --w suffix is used to form the plural. In the Dravidian (Dr.) . languages the plural if formed by -lu, especially in Telugu. In the Manding (M) group, and other African languages we find -lu or -u (-w), e.g., M. mogo 'husband,(pl.) mogo-lu 'husbands'; Telugu magaadu 'husband , man', (pl.) magaalu 'husbands'.
In many Black African languages ba means 'abundance, many'. In Elamite pa or fa is used to make plural numbers, e.g., ko-fa inna 'of the Kings', Bapitu fa-pa "to the Babylonians". The use of -pa, by the Elamites corresponds to the Manding use of the -ba suffix , which is joined to nouns to denote the idea of greatness, physical or moral e.g., na-folo 'good,rich', no-folo-ba 'great fortune'; and so-kalo 'piece', so-kala-ba 'considerable quarter of a village'.
NEGATIVE
In Black African languages including Egyptian the -n, is used to show negation. In Egyptian we often find -nn, e.g., nn wn 'there is nothing'. In Elamite the negative is formed by an uninflected nominal derivative in -n (active participle), e.g., ink 'I not", inr 'he not' and ani 'not'. This suffix is analogous to the M. negative suffix -na, employed as a suffix to -ka, e.g., ka na ku na tara so "I did not say I was going to the house" .
In Tamil the negative verbal participle is formed by suffixing a-mal or a-mei, e.g., sey (y)-a-mal 'without stopping'. The Tamil suffix -mei is also used as a terminationn for abstract nouns.
The negative suffix in Manding is -na, which is proceeded by ka and nt'i, e.g., kalu mba-nt'i. In Sumerian the negation of the verb is expressed by the prefixes nu- or la-, e.g., nu-zu "not to know", la-gin "not to fix" and nu-dug "not good. The optative mood are negatived by the element na,na-ma-pad "she may not".
PARTICLES
In Elamite personal nouns are formed by adding -ra, e.g., Kellira 'commander', kutira 'bearer'. This relates to the Manding suffix of the past and present participle -ra, this particle is used to make verbs passive or active, e.g., kyi 'send', kyi-ra 'messenger', gyi (ji) 'dry up', gyi-ra 'arid'.
In Sumerian the dative is expressed by the suffix -ra, which may appear in the form of -ar, -ir , and -ur, e.g., ma-ra 'to me', lugal-e-a-ra ' to the owner of the house'. This parallels the Manding locative suffix -ra, and -la , which can represent 'to,or, for, in ', e.g., tu-ra 'in the forest'.
The Elamite indefinite article is -ra, e.g., Parsar-ra 'a Persian', Afartu-ra 'an Elamite'. This corresponds to the Manding locative suffix -ra, e.g., Ton-ra 'land of Ton'.
The Proto-Saharan languages share the present participle -tu/-to. In Telugu (Tel.),the suffix -tu , is used as the present participle while in the Manding languages -to has the same function e.g., Tel. chestu 'made', M.tege 'to cut', tege-to 'cutting'.
The active participle in Elamite is -n, e.g., talu-n 'writing', or hali-n 'toiling'. This corresponds to the Manding -ni and -li elements e.g., sa 'buy', sanni 'buying', or du-mu 'eat', dumu-ni 'eating'. This -n, active participle is found in many other Black African languages including Egyptian.
The use of the -ka element is frequently found in the formation of Dravidian, Elamite, Egyptian, Manding and Sumerian languages. In Egyptian as outlined by Cheikh Anta Diop, in Nouvelles Recherches Sur l' Egyptien Ancien et Langues Negro-Africaines Modernes (pp.55-57), he outlines the use of /k/ and /t/ , to form agent nouns. In Parente genetique de l'Egyptien Pharonique et des langues Negro-Africaines (p.18), Diop explains the evolution of the -ky, and -kt particles.
In Elamite the passive participle is formed by -ka, e.g., hulta-ka 'done', turu-ka 'said'. This corresponds to the Manding -ka 'make, do',e.g., nyine 'see', nyini-ka 'interogate'.
In the Dravidian and Manding languages -ka, is used to represent the verb 'to be', as well as the subjunctive. For example in Manding languages ka, is a particle of different values, which corresponds to -kaa, the infinitive element in Telugu of the verb ag-uta 'to become'. In Tamil this
element appears as aaga. For example, in Manding we have a ka-nye 'it's good'; and in Telugu kaa valenu 'it is necessary'. The same radical -ka represents the optative form in Teluggu, e.g., aapani mundara kani 'how is labor given first place?'
In the Dravidian languages the suffixes -ke, -ge and -ka are used as the primitive verb 'to be' or 'to do'. They are usually used with abstract nouns e.g., ol 'to reign', ol-ka 'domination'. This corresponds to the Manding verb 'to do' ke , which is often joined to -la to form derived nouns e.g., sene 'cultivate', sene-li ke-la 'cultivator'.
These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL
chief kal,kala kele-tigi gasa(n)
field gan ga kalan
eye(l) igi akki
eye(2) ini,en nya kan
arrow kak kala kakam
granary kur k'ur-k'ur kutir
road sila sila caalai
father pap pa appan
lord manus mansa mannan
male mu moko maakkal
to recite sid siti
to buy sa sa cel
grain se se
seed gen ge 'to sprout'
English Dravidian Manding
top, summit kona kun
one ondu do
two pattu ta
four naal nani
person uki moko
fish(filet) bale bake
skin uri wuru,guru
house lon lu
head kuku ku
tongue na ne
blacksmith inumu numu
foot karal koro
liver karal kura
mud burada boro, buru
give idu di
stone kaly kulu
cloud kaar ka, kaba
fire ti ta
mountain kunru kuru
elder,grandfather maama maa-maa
ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING
-ak and ka
turna know, awaken kuna, fori
sahri death sa
murta to erect kura
-mar from a place ma
li give di
tela to go tara
Nap God Nala
tus habitation du
husu ill-omened dyugu
kuta lance keru
lan,lani silver dala
ki one killi
ta place ta
kik sky,heaven ka
sari sculpter se
ufat steel tuufa
tela to go ta
khali great ka
dau help deema
ko king,lord ka
na say na
para to watch fere-ke
The lexical evidence above supports the hypothesis that a genetic relationship exist between Black African languages, Dravidian, Elamite and Sumerian. This linguistic data illustrates that a common cultural macrostructure is shared by these speakers which subsequently evolved along separate lines. Given this genetic unity of these languages we should call this group of Paleo-African languages situated in Africa and Asia B(lack) Af(rican), S(umerian, Draa(vidian), (E)lam: or Bafsudraalam subset of the Proto-Saharan Superset of languages.(Winters 1989)
The theory of borrowing in ancient time can not account for these morphological, lexicological and phonetic correspondences between Dravidian , Elamite, Egyptian, Manding and Sumerian, because of geographical discontinuity. This cognition illustrates a genetic relationship between the Bafsudraalam subset of the Proto-Saharan family of languages.
Winters (l989) in a comparison of 100 lexical items from Manding and Dravidian indicated a cognate rate of 70 to 75 percent . The retention rate corresponds to a minimum separation of 1.18 millennia.
Using the standard rates of retention for glottochronology, the rate for corresponding Manding, Sumerian and Tamil terms together is 50 percent retention rate, and suggest a minimum length of separation of 2.29 millennia for the group as a whole.(Winters 1989) But when we compare Manding-Sumerian
the retention rate is 70 percent or a minimum length of separation of 1.18 millennia. A comparison of Sumerian-Tamil corresponds to a 57 percent retention rate or a minimum separation of 1.50 millennia.
The length of separations for these languages are far too recent. We know for example that Sumerian had been absorbed by the Akkadian language much earlier then 2.29 millennia ago.
This was false. It appears that as late as 1000BC, Sumerian continued to be used by people in southern Mesopotamia (Jacobsen, 1988). This suggest that glottochronology may be useful in determining the relationship between various languages. This lends support to this linguistic method.
The conservative nature of these languages can be explained by socio-cultural factors. You see all languages do not change as rapidly as others. Dr. Diop, in The African Origins of Civilization, observes that "understandably stable societies man's language has changed less with the passage of time".
The linguistic evidence explains the appearance of similar artifacts recovered from Iran (Elam) , the Indus Valley and Egyptian archaeological excavations. The cultural features and works of art are analogous because these people came from a common origin in the ancient Saharan region of Africa.
.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Captain00 - When you are through with your silly pretensions, I will explain to you who you really are.
Captain00 left before I could make good on my promise. He was no doubt extremely angry and embarrassed by the education he received. I hope that when he returns home, he slaps the sh1t out of his former teachers, for filling his head with such nonsense and stupid lies.
These people inhabit very different countries, with very different ancient histories: yet they are all EXACTLY ALIKE - just like Captain00.
Rather than having me explain it, why not do a little research?
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
And here is what the ancient peoples of Iran looked like:
Iranian salt mummy around 2000 years old
Clearly they weren't black.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: And here is what the ancient peoples of Iran looked like:
Iranian salt mummy around 2000 years old
Clearly they weren't black.
2000 years ago was after the time of Christ, silly!
The white skinned people (unrelated to the Achaemenid Persians) who took over Elam from the short Dravidian-related Elamites and the Afro-Arabian related Farasi or Dahae/Daasa (Persians) who claimed descend from Dahhak in south Arabia - are historically known as the Scythians, Sassanids, etc. The early Parthian dynasty also marks the time of their entrance.
I was speculating that the hair of Darius' people was afro-like on another thread here. But I wasn't sure. I have since learned FOR A FACT that such people still exist in Iran that look like Darius, and that you don't know what ALL of the people in Iran look like. My son pointed out a nearly afro-wearing "Persian", his friend - riding across the street a few months ago who I had thought was probably DOMINICAN.
There are distinctly African-looking Persians with AFRO-LIKE hair still in Iran that look like they could have come from the family of Darius. Luckily I have seen these people with my own eyes in my own neighborhood here in the U.S.
So whatever opposition to the idea in this regard to me now is NULL AND VOID. These people of the Dahae and the Amardians and Medes did exist, and their descendants are ALIVE AND WELL!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
By the 15th century as shown in Bernard Lewis books a people of partially Mongolian or Siberian affiliation took over the Muslimized Iran. One wonders why their pictures are never displayed as Iranians. Although their paintings show they were from Khorasan and other Persian capitals.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
I was speculating that the hair of Darius' people was afro-like on another thread here. But I wasn't sure.
Iranian
exercise guru
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
After extensive reading I have to agree with Dana, G. Sergi, Clyde etc. The Saharans extended their genetic influence throughout southern Asia This also applies to Iran/Persia. I trying to locate a study that basically proved that, YES, Africans were the basis for Southern Iran. Will post when I locate.
THE ORIGINS OF PAKISTANI POPULATIONS Evidence from Y Chromosome Markers S. Q. Mehdi', R. Qamarl, Q. Ayub', S. Khaliql, A. Mansoor', M. Ismail', M. F. Hamme$, P. A. Underhi113, and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza3 'Biomedical and Genetic Engineering Division Dr. A. Q. Khan Research Laboratory F? 0. Box 289 1, Islamabad 44000 Pakistan. 2Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721. USA 3Departments of Genetics Stanford University School of Medicine Stanford, CA 94305-5120 USA ABSTRACT In an attempt to investigate the origin of the present-day Pakistani populations, we have analysed a microsatellite locus (DYS 19) and the Alu insertion polymorphism (YAP) in a sample of nine ethnic groups from the Northern (viz., Punjabi, Burusho, Pathan, Kalash, and Hazara) and the Southern (Brahui, Baloch, Makrani, and Sindhi) parts of the country. A north-south divide among the populations is evident. This separation is not only due to their geographic location but these two regional groups might have originated as a result of two distinct waves of migrations, one from North Africa and the other from Sub-Saharan region. Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
If the Skulls say it is so and the genes say it is so then,. . . . .Fugk what the books say. Do you believe in the bible? As my brother said laughing a few dys ago. If the Nigerian Muslims can trace their ancestry through Mohammed(LOL!).
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
THIS IS HOW THE PERSIANS DEPICTED "WHITE" PEOPLE!
but Mike look at the small line of curl at the end of his hair along the forehead, he must be part black like a decroon or something
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
AND THIS IS HOW THEY DEPICTED "MULATTOES".
yes Mike his hair is curly yet his beard is straight, they teach this in college biology, half and half equals mulatto (this guy should cut his beard off, then he could be 100% negroid)
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
hold on Mike this guy has only like 1/5 curly hair he be a quintroon
and to think we've been duped by these white people into believing they curled their hair artificially
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] After extensive reading I have to agree with Dana, G. Sergi, Clyde etc. The Saharans extended their genetic influence throughout southern Asia This also applies to Iran/Persia. I trying to locate a study that basically proved that, YES, Africans were the basis for Southern Iran. Will post when I locate.
"genetic influence" = negroid ??
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration M. Regueiro a A.M. Cadenas a T. Gayden a P.A. Underhill b R.J. Herrera a a Department of Biological Sciences, Florida International University, Miami, Fla. , and b Department of Genetics, Stanford University, Stanford, Calif. , USA
Yet, the routes and crossings beyond the Gate of Sorrow involving the Arabian Peninsula are typically neglected in genetic analyses. Th e Strait of Hormuz is a narrow, shallow waterway sprinkled with islands bisecting the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.
Both major lineages associated with group E, M2 and M35, were detected in the southern portion of Iran (6.8%). E3a-M2 is hypothesized to have dispersed south from northern Africa within the last 3,000 years by the Bantu agricultural expansion [30–32] while E3b1-M35 is thought to have originated in East Africa [33] . Unfortunately the number of individuals segregated into each lineage is so low that it does not allow questions about routes exiting Africa to be addressed, yet it is clear that populations from this region had an impact on the Iranian gene pool.
Th e Iranians from the present study carry signature lineages with origins in Asia, Africa, and Europe. Th ere is an observable diff erence between north and south Persia with the southern region possessing a slightly greater va
Two major deserts, the Dasht-e Kavir and Dash-e Lut in Iran, have also had an infl uence in the peopling of Southwest Asia. Th e Dasht-e Kavir occupies the north central region of present day Iran while to the east the Dash-e Lut extends north to south. Th e breadth of these two deserts encompasses a majority of the central Iranian plateau and its uninhabitable conditions may have led to the preferential settlement of populations to the surrounding areas.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
ok you win, 6.8%
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
6.8%. Hope you are messing with me.. . .I love to get "stroked" by a lovely lady like you. He! He! He! Let me indulge you this once.
Euro-Americans here in the US. ~80%.. . .within 400yrs
Tic! Toc! Tic! Toc!
Damn!! I need to get stroked. Intellectually I mean. You have to work harder at it babe. Try your mouth not your hands.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Let me help you. frequency/percentages tell part of the story.
The really stimulating question is WHEN they got there. HOW they got there.
That's where these white people fuckgk-up in their studies.
So, Lioness repeat after me. Timeline and Method. And I hope your followup queston isn't why method is so important.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Let me help you. frequency/percentages tell part of the story.
The really stimulating question is WHEN they got there. HOW they got there.
That's where these white people fuckgk-up in their studies.
So, Lioness repeat after me. Timeline and Method. And I hope your followup queston isn't why method is so important.
you posted this:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
E, M2 and M35, were detected in the southern portion of Iran (6.8%).
do you want to retract now in a Mike-esque manner, throwing up you hands saying that the white man corrupted the study (that you just tried to use in a argument while bicycling backwards) ?
all right you win it might be 7.3% instead of 6.8
Posted by 1.0.0. (Member # 6729) on :
Gazer & cub Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Let me help you. frequency/percentages tell part of the story.
The really stimulating question is WHEN they got there. HOW they got there.
That's where these white people fuckgk-up in their studies.
So, Lioness repeat after me. Timeline and Method. And I hope your followup queston isn't why method is so important.
you posted this:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
E, M2 and M35, were detected in the southern portion of Iran (6.8%).
do you want to retract now in a Mike-esque manner, throwing up you hands saying that the white man corrupted the study (that you just tried to use in a argument while bicycling backwards) ?
all right you win it might be 7.3% instead of 6.8
Shut your trap Snake and be humble. XYYman just schooled your albino ass and still you cannot see that! What a shameless thing you are!
And where is the pretend Irani here who whined that there was no black blood in Iran. Let's hear you again....
Lion!
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration M. Regueiro a A.M. Cadenas a T. Gayden a P.A. Underhill b R.J. Herrera a a Department of Biological Sciences, Florida International University, Miami, Fla. , and b Department of Genetics, Stanford University, Stanford, Calif. , USA
Yet, the routes and crossings beyond the Gate of Sorrow involving the Arabian Peninsula are typically neglected in genetic analyses. Th e Strait of Hormuz is a narrow, shallow waterway sprinkled with islands bisecting the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.
Both major lineages associated with group E, M2 and M35, were detected in the southern portion of Iran (6.8%). E3a-M2 is hypothesized to have dispersed south from northern Africa within the last 3,000 years by the Bantu agricultural expansion [30–32] while E3b1-M35 is thought to have originated in East Africa [33] . Unfortunately the number of individuals segregated into each lineage is so low that it does not allow questions about routes exiting Africa to be addressed, yet it is clear that populations from this region had an impact on the Iranian gene pool.
Th e Iranians from the present study carry signature lineages with origins in Asia, Africa, and Europe. Th ere is an observable diff erence between north and south Persia with the southern region possessing a slightly greater va
Two major deserts, the Dasht-e Kavir and Dash-e Lut in Iran, have also had an infl uence in the peopling of Southwest Asia. Th e Dasht-e Kavir occupies the north central region of present day Iran while to the east the Dash-e Lut extends north to south. Th e breadth of these two deserts encompasses a majority of the central Iranian plateau and its uninhabitable conditions may have led to the preferential settlement of populations to the surrounding areas.
QED!
Said!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
IronLion quote: "Shut your trap Snake and be humble. XYYman just schooled your albino ass and still you cannot see that! What a shameless thing you are!"
Lion, cassiterides and lioness are not debaters, or conversationalists: they are anarchists intent on subverting any ongoing Black debate that may lead to knowledge.
Haven't you noticed that when they run out of rational arguments, they quickly turn to the inane, and when that fails, they quickly turn to outright lies?
It is a mistake to treat them as normal people who consider what you say, and will respond in a thoughtful manner, they are NOT. It's best to suffer their baits and ignore them, in time, starved of controversy, they just might leave.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ They can be found on just about every black subject site, Mike, sporting black people avatars and making Pro-Jewish statements. They won't leave because they actually get paid to do this crap.
As you state, they are not to be taken seriously and are much like the gnats you have to suffer in the outdoors, occasionally swatting them away unconsciously as you go about your real business.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
^ GTFOH! HA! Those clowns are posting fake images.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Come on Lioness. I am close. Don't stop now.
As I told Hammer, I never came across a white man who can out-think me. This is what a truelly free black mind is capable of.
As MK would say maybe it is the melanin.
They are only lucky they are in a position of power.
BTW Lioness - I talking about a mental orgasm. But give me a buzz 267 555 1289, let's see what happens. He! He! He!
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 6.8%. Hope you are messing with me.. . .I love to get "stroked" by a lovely lady like you. He! He! He! Let me indulge you this once.
Euro-Americans here in the US. ~80%.. . .within 400yrs
Tic! Toc! Tic! Toc!
Damn!! I need to get stroked. Intellectually I mean. You have to work harder at it babe. Try your mouth not your hands.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Before going on, I think it would be instructive to review what Whites say when confronted by proof of African origins for a given people or culture.
Example the Olmec:
Perhaps some might have noticed that the term "Stylized" is ALWAYS used when referring to Olmec art, but NEVER with specificity. That is to allow the ignorant to question if they are seeing what they are seeing.
The Olmec:
Quote: "Explanations for the facial features of the colossal heads include the possibility that the heads were carved in this manner due to the shallow space allowed on the basalt boulders. Others note that in addition to the broad noses and thick lips, the eyes of the heads have the Asian epicanthic fold, and that all these characteristics can still be found in modern Mesoamerican Indians.
To support this, in the 1940s artist/art historian Miguel Covarrubias published a series of photos of Olmec artworks and of the faces of modern Mexican Indians with very similar facial characteristics. In addition, the African origin hypothesis assumes that Olmec carving was intended to be realistic, an assumption that is hard to justify given the full corpus of representation in Olmec carving."
^Sounds like Lioness and the Cass-boy, doesn't it?
Fortunately today, we have genetic studies which prove the original Americans were indeed Africans. Otherwise these Albinos would have the ignorant running around in circles forever. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: For the 100th time, you basing your nonsense that they had curly hair. Here is a picture of Darius the great with straight hair, you can see that the rest as been curled, like that of Assyrians.
Do you have some kind of dream in which you imagin they were your ancestors? Well they were NOT.
I brought the Olmec thing up, because when Captain00 said the above, it was not meant with howls of laughter. Are you all really THAT young?
Well before the current "I want to look White era" That is EXACTLY how the hair of Black women looked!
Greased down, what do you think her hair is going to look like?
Aside from that, where or when did any of you ever see a White person with hair like that - A Mulatto perhaps, but NEVER a White person! Some of you really need to check yourselves out!
Point being:
If you can't figure-out that this is the face of a Black man - there is something wrong with you!
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I told Hammer, I never came across a white man who can out-think me. This is what a truelly free black mind is capable of.
As MK would say maybe it is the melanin.
And that's a fact, Jack! The only brothers they can out think are the ones who don't detect the hype and internalize their skewed thinking. I.E., Kittles
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Can you provide these genetic studies Mike. I always thought these Olmecs were Americans. Maybe another thread. i don't want to digress.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Before going on,. . . .
Fortunately today, we have genetic studies which prove the original Americans were indeed Africans. Otherwise these Albinos would have the ignorant running around in circles forever.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: By the 15th century as shown in Bernard Lewis books a people of partially Mongolian or Siberian affiliation took over the Muslimized Iran. One wonders why their pictures are never displayed as Iranians. Although their paintings show they were from Khorasan and other Persian capitals.
Dana's comment brings us to actual post-native Persian history - this is when Captain00's people take over.
But first: The first Persian dynasty was destroyed by the Macedonian Alexander the Great in 330 B.C.
Here is how Whites depict that victory.
Alexander is on the left, and Darius III is in the middle.
The problem for Whites is that this is the only AUTHENTIC image of Alexander!
And THIS is how the Persians depicted Macedonians!
Note the curly hair!
HERE IS WHAT HERODOTUS HAD TO SAY ABOUT ALEXANDER AND THE MACEDONIANS.
Argos
Argos - a city in the southeast Peloponnese. A settlement of great antiquity, Argos has been continuously inhabited for the past 7,000 years, making it one of the oldest cities in Greece and Europe. (The Black Pelasgians and Minyans were the original Greeks).
The people of Argos and the Persians share the same linage.
Book 7 - POLYMNIA
[7.150] Such is the account which is given of these matters by the Argives themselves. There is another story, which is told generally through Greece, of a different tenor. Xerxes, it is said, before he set forth on his expedition against Greece, sent a herald to Argos, who on his arrival spoke as follows: "Men of Argos, King Xerxes speaks thus to you. We Persians deem that the Perses from whom we descend was the child of Perseus the son of Danae, and of Andromeda the daughter of Cepheus. Hereby it would seem that we come of your stock and lineage. So then it neither befits us to make war upon those from whom we spring; nor can it be right for you to fight, on behalf of others, against us. Your place is to keep quiet and hold yourself aloof. Only let matters proceed as I wish, and there is no people whom I shall have in higher esteem than you."
Alexander the Greats linage began in Argos.
Book 8 - URANIA
[8.136] Mardonius, when he had read the answers given by the oracles, sent next an envoy to Athens. This was Alexander, the son of Amyntas, a Macedonian, of whom he made choice for two reasons. Alexander was connected with the Persians by family ties; for Gygaea, who was the daughter of Amyntas, and sister to Alexander himself, was married to Bubares, a Persian, and by him had a son, to wit, Amyntas of Asia; who was named after his mother's father, and enjoyed the revenues of Alabanda, a large city of Phrygia, which had been assigned him by the king.
Alexander was likewise (and of this too Mardonius was well aware), both by services which he had rendered, and by formal compact of friendship, connected with Athens. Mardonius therefore thought that, by sending him, he would be most likely to gain over the Athenians to the Persian side. He had heard that they were a numerous and a warlike people, and he knew that the disasters which had befallen the Persians by sea were mainly their work; he therefore expected that, if he could form alliance with them, he would easily get the mastery of the sea (as indeed he would have done, beyond a doubt), while by land he believed that he was already greatly superior; and so he thought by this alliance to make sure of overcoming the Greeks. Perhaps, too, the oracles leant this way, and counselled him to make Athens his friend: so that it may have been in obedience to them that he sent the embassy.
[8.137] This Alexander was descended in the seventh degree from Perdiccas, who obtained the sovereignty over the Macedonians in the way which I will now relate. Three brothers, descendants of Temenus, fled from Argos to the Illyrians; their names were Gauanes, Aeropus, and Perdiccas. From Illyria they went across to Upper Macedonia, where they came to a certain town called Lebaea. There they hired themselves out to serve the king in different employs; one tended the horses; another looked after the cows; while Perdiccas, who was the youngest, took charge of the smaller cattle. In those early times poverty was not confined to the people: kings themselves were poor, and so here it was the king's wife who cooked the victuals. Now, whenever she baked the bread, she always observed that the loaf of the labouring boy Perdiccas swelled to double its natural size.
[8.138] When they were gone, one of those who sat by told the king what the youngest of the three had done, and hinted that he must have had some meaning in accepting the wages given. Then the king, when he heard what had happened, was angry, and sent horsemen after the youths to slay them. Now there is a river in Macedonia to which the descendants of these Argives offer sacrifice as their saviour. This stream swelled so much, as soon as the sons of Temenus were safe across, that the horsemen found it impossible to follow. So the brothers escaped into another part of Macedonia, and took up their abode near the place called "the Gardens of Midas, son of Gordias." In these gardens there are roses which grow of themselves, so sweet that no others can come near them, and with blossoms that have as many as sixty petals apiece. It was here, according to the Macedonians, that Silenus was made a prisoner. Above the gardens stands a mountain called Bermius, which is so cold that none can reach the top. Here the brothers made their abode; and from this place by, degrees they conquered all Macedonia.
[8.139] From the Perdiccas of whom we have here spoken, Alexander was descended in the following way:- Alexander was the son of Amyntas, Amyntas of Alcetas; the father of Alcetas was Aeropus; of Aeropus, Philip; of Philip, Argaeus; of Argaeus, Perdiccas, the first sovereign. Such was the descent of Alexander. ( "Alexander the Great" was Alexander III of Macedon (356 – 323 B.C.).
In conclusion - It appears that Alexander was Black or mulatto. Jari, close your Albino mouth - He, he. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Now would probably be a good time to remind everyone that modern Greeks, and Europeans in general, have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ancient Greeks or ANYBODY ancient. They are Germanic's, Slav's, and Turks, who invaded in the current era.
xyyman, I will get back to you.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Quote: Alexander encouraged the Macedonians to marry Persian women.
That never made sense to me, until I read the Herodotus histories.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
After the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C, his Empire was split-up between his generals. Northern Mesopotamia was removed from Syria and made a separate satrapy. One of his generals, Seleucus (later Seleucus I Nicator), received the satrapy of Babylonia to rule. Seleucus thus became the ruler of a large empire, stretching from modern Afghanistan to the Mediterranean Sea. He founded a number of cities, the most important of which were Seleucia on the Tigris, and Antioch on the Orontes River in Syria.
(Ptolemy I received Egypt.)
The Parthian's
The borders of Parthia were the Kopet Dag mountain range in the north (today the border between Iran and Turkmenistan) and the Dasht-e-Kavir desert in the south. In the west was Media, in the northwest Hyrcania, in the northeast Margiana, in the southeast Aria. (The road from Media through Parthia to Margiana is the famous Silk Road.) Assyrian texts mention a country named Partakka or Partukka in the seventh century B.C. At an unknown time its inhabitants were subjugated by the Medes, who ruled until they were subdued by the Persian leader Cyrus the Great in 550 B.C. For the next two centuries, Parthia was part of the Achaemenid Empire.
The Parni
The Central-Asian steppe had been the home of nomadic tribes for centuries. These nomads roamed across the plains, attacking the urbanized countries to the south, east and west. They are known under many names One of these tribes was that of the Parni. They are unknown before the third century B.C. The area where they lived, along the river Syrdar'ya (Jaxartes), was occupied by a tribe that the Persians knew as the Dahâ, (litterally 'robbers'). The kings of the Seleucid dynasty were never able to control this area now known as Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. During the Seleucid period these nomads started to move to the south, to the countries known as Bactria, Aria and Parthia.
In 245 B.C, a satrap named Andragoras, revolted from the young Seleucid king Seleucus II, who had just succeeded to the throne. In the confusion, Parthia was attacked by the Parni, by 238 B.C, the Parni occupied the district known as Astavene. Three years later, a Parnian leader named Tiridates ventured further south and seized the rest of Parthia. A counter-offensive by king Seleucus II ended in disaster, and Hyrcania was also subdued by the Parni, the Parni made their capital at Hecatompylus. From then on, the Parni were known as Parthians. In the years that followed, their kings recognized the Seleucid kings as their superiors.
After the death of Parthian king Mithradates I in 138 B.C, Seleucid king "Antiochus VII" began a campaign to recover lost Seleucid territory in the east. This campaign was successful until Antiochus VII lost his life in Persia in 129 B.C. His death ended Seleucid rule in Mesopotamia, and allowed for the establishment of small principalities in both south and north Mesopotamia.
Also with the death of Antiochus VII, the Parthians then went on to conquer what was left of Media, Babylonia, and Assyria, thus creating the Parthian empire. This Parthian Empire would last until 224 A.D. The Parthian empire was not centralized, there were several languages, ethnically several peoples, and several economic systems. Thus the Parthian monarch was the ruler of his own kingdom, plus some eighteen vassal kings, such as the rulers of the city-state of Hatra, the port of Characene and the kingdom of Armenia.
By now, Rome has become the great power in Europe, and they too are bent on conquest. The prize for them was what was left of the Seleucid Empire. The Parthians also wanted more of this territory. So in 69 B.C, the two enemies concluded a treaty in anticipation of taking the remnants of the Seleucid Empire and splitting it up amongst themselves. The Euphrates river would be their border, east of that would be Parthia's, west of the Euphrates would be Roman.
The Seleucid Empire was assaulted from two sides: the Parthians attacked from the east, the Romans from the west. Six years later, the Roman commander "Pompey the Great" conquered what was left of the empire of the Seleucids. However, ten years later in 53 B.C, the Roman general Crassus invades Parthia. This would be the beginning of a series of wars, that were to last for almost three hundred years.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The wars with Rome continued, back and forth, until Septimius Severus became king of the Roman empire. He attacked Parthia, and Ctesiphon was captured in 198 A.D. As a result of this victory, large spoils were brought to Rome. Parthia was now impoverished, while at the same time, there had also been internal revolts in Parthia.
And so in 224 A.D, the resurgent Persians, now under their king "Ardašir", culminated the war with Parthia that his father "Papak" had started. He defeated the last Parthian king "Artabanus V" in battle, and two years later, Ardašir took Ctesiphon. This meant the end of Parthia, and it also meant the beginning of the second Persian Empire, one ruled by the Sassanid kings.
The beginnings of the Sassanian dynasty (alternatively Sasanian or Sasanid) are found in the southwest Persian state of Pars, (its modern name is Fars). Sometime in the first decade of the 3rd century A.D, a king by the name of Papak seized the throne of Pars. After unifying the region under his command, Papak waged war against the central Parthian government, but died before the conflict was resolved. Papak's son Ardashir inherited the throne in 216 A.D, and continued the Persian campaign against the Parthian Empire.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
After Ardashir I, the first of the Sassanian kings, had consolidated his position in Persia, he moved into southern Mesopotamia. The city of Mesene submitted in 224 A.D, he then defeated and killed the last Parthian ruler Artabanus V. After which, Mesopotamia quickly fell before him. Ctesiphon became the main capital of the Sassanian Empire. As always, these Sassanian Persians went on a campaign of conquest. In about 238 A.D, Nisibis, Hatra and Harran, came under their control. Then, Ardashir died and his son Shapur I became king.
The Roman emperor Gordian III, led a large army against Shapur I in 243 A.D. The Romans retook Harran and Nisibis and defeated the Sassanians at a battle near Resaina. But at another city "Anbar", renamed Peroz-Shapur ("Victorious Is Shapur"), the Sassanians inflicted a heavy defeat on the Romans. At this time, the Romans also lost their emperor. Later the "new" Roman emperor "Valerian", was defeated and captured at the gates of Edessa in 259 A.D. This victory was the high point of Shapurs conquests in the west.
The White Fake Cameo
Close-up of the REAL Cameo
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
Mike111 While I can't speak for the Dravidian Elamites who preceded them, the Perisans and Medes descend from a branch of Indo European speakers. The same folks who setteled in Europe who gave birth to the Greek,Latin and Germanic languages etc. You can't not ignore this. Genetic studies also bear this out. Thats why to this day you have Iranian people who still look like this.
Where did these folks get their phenotype from, if not from the original Indo-European Persians?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Wars with Rome continued, and by about 560 A.D, a new people, the "Gokturks" of central Asia had emerged as a nation in the east. Khosrow I, was now king of Persia and he negotiated an alliance with a Turkish leader called Sinjibu. With this alliance, Khosrow I was able to inflict a decisive defeat on the troublesome Hephthalites (see below). After which event, a common frontier between the Turks and Sassanian empire was established (in the area of Afghanistan). The agreement was not a good one however, as sometimes the Turks acted as allies of Rome against Persia in the following war (572–579 A.D.). Khosrow I, is said to have taken Hephthalite and Turkish princesses's as wives.
Hephthalites also spelled Ephthalite, member of a people important in the history of India and Persia during the 5th and 6th centuries A.D. According to Chinese chronicles they were originally a tribe living to the north of the Great Wall and were known as Hoa or Hoa-tun. Elsewhere they were called White Huns or Hunas. They had no cities or system of writing, lived in felt tents, and practiced polyandry (a woman married to more than one man). In the 5th and 6th centuries the Hephthalites repeatedly invaded Persia and India. In the middle of the 6th century under the attacks of the Turks they ceased to exist as a separate people and were probably absorbed in the surrounding population. Nothing is known of their language.
At about 570 A.D. the Himyarites of Yemen, who had been subdued by the Ethiopians of Axum, applied to Khosrau I for help. The Emperor Khosrau sent a fleet with a small army commanded by Vahriz, who met Masruq; the Ethiopian ruler of Yemen, in battle and killed him. Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarire al-Tabari (838-923), the Persian historian and theologian, reports that the main reason behind the victory of Vahriz over the Axumites was the use of the panjigan (probably a catapult), a piece of military technology which the local peoples were unfamiliar. Vahriz then took up residence as the Persian governor of Yemen, which became a vassal state of the Sassanids until the arrival of Islam.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Thus when Yazdegerd III, Persia's last Sassanid and Zoroastrian sovereign came to the throne in 632 A.D, the year of Muhammad's death, he inherited an empire weakened by the Byzantine wars and internal dissension. Yazdegerd III was the grandson of Khosrau II and Roman emperor Maurice. He was a child when he ascended, and never actually ruled a unified Empire.
The Arabs
For centuries before: The Arab Lakhmid had been Sassanian Persian vassals and the Arab Ghassanids were vassals of the Byzantine Empire. They acted as frontier guardians of the two empires against fellow Arabs: While the Meccan and Medinese Arabs of Arabia had established commercial connections with both the Byzantines and Sassanids Empires. The Lakhmids
The Lakhmids were a group of Arab Christians who lived in Southern Iraq, and made al-Hirah their capital in (266). The al-Hirah ruins are located 3 kilometers south of Kufa, on the west bank of the Euphrates. The Lakhmid Kingdom was founded by the Lakhum tribe that immigrated out of Yemen in the second century and ruled by the Banu Lakhm, hence the name given it. The founder of the dynasty was 'Amr, whose son Imru' al-Qais converted to Christianity. Gradually the whole city converted to that faith. Imru' al-Qais dreamt of a unified and independent Arab kingdom and, following that dream, he seized many cities in Arabia . He then formed a large army and developed the Kingdom as a naval power, which consisted of a fleet of ships operating along the Bahraini coast. From this position he attacked the coastal cities of Persia (Iran) (which at that time was in civil war, due to a dispute as to the succession), even raiding the birthplace of the Sassanid kings, the province of Pars (Fars).
In 325, the Persians, led by Shapur II, began a campaign against the Arab kingdoms. When Imru' al-Qais realized that a mighty Persian army composed of 60,000 warriors was approaching his kingdom, he asked for the assistance of the Roman Empire. Constantius II promised to assist him but was unable to provide that help when it was needed. The Persians advanced toward al-Hirah and a series of vicious battles took place over al-Hirah and the surrounding cities. Shapur II crushed the Lakhmid army and captured al-Hirah. He ordered the extermination of its population in retaliation of their raids on Pars. In this, the young Shapur acted much more violently than was normal at the time in order to demonstrate to both the Arab Kingdoms and the Persian nobility his power and authority.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Seeing the problems of Yazdegerd III's Persia Empire; These former Arab vassals on the empire's southwestern and western borders realized that their moment had arrived. They, together with Turks, Greeks and Romans - who were now disenfranchised because of Greece and Rome's fall in the Middle East: launched raids into Sassanian territory in 633 A.D.
Seeing the success of these raids, caliph Abu Bakr decided upon a full-scale invasion of Iraq; by November of that year, Iraq was taken. An Arab victory at Al-Qadisiyyah Iraq in 637 A.D. lead directly to the sack of the Sassanian winter capital at Ctesiphon on the Tigris. After withdrawal from Ctesiphon, the Persian armies gathered at Jalaula, north-east of Ctesiphon. There they were defeated by Arab forces under the command of Hashim ibn Uthba. After the defeat of Persian forces at the Battle of Jalula, Emperor Yazdgerd III went to Rayy, and from there he moved to Merv, where he set up his capital. From Merv, he directed his chiefs to conduct continuous raids in Iraq to destabilize the Muslim rule in Iraq. Within the next four years, Yazdgerd III felt powerful enough to challenge the Muslims once again for the throne of Iraq. The Emperor sent a call to his people to drive away the Muslims from their lands. In response to the call, hardened veterans and young volunteers from all parts of Persia marched in large numbers to join the imperial standard and marched to Nihawand for the last titanic struggle for Persia. Again they were defeated, after the devastating defeat at Nihawand, Yazdgerd III was never again able to raise significant troops to resist the mighty onslaught of the Arabs. Yazdegerd III fled into Media, where his generals tried to organize a new resistance.
Sometime during the wars, caliph Omar Ibn-Khattab is reported to have written this letter to Yazdgerd III
Text of the ultimatum from Omar Ibn-Khattab the Calif of Islam to the Yazdgerd III
Bism-ellah Ar'rahman Ar'rhim To the Shah of the Fars
I do not foresee a good future for you and your nation save your acceptance of my terms and your submission to me. There was a time when your country ruled half the world, but see how now your sun has set. On all fronts your armies have been defeated and your nation is condemned to extinction. I point out to you the path whereby you might escape this fate. Namely, that you begin worshipping the one god, the unique deity, the only god who created all that is. I bring you his message. Order your nation to cease the false worship of fire and to join us, that they may join the truth.
Worship Allah the creator of the world. Worship Allah and accept Islam as the path of salvation. End now your polytheistic ways and become Muslims that you may accept Allah-u-Akbar as your savior. This is the only way of securing your own survival and the peace of your Persians. You will do this if you know what is good for you and for your Persians. Submission is your only option Allah u Akbar
The Calif of Muslims Omar Ibn-Khat'tab
The response:
In the name of Ahuramazda the Creator of Life and Wisdom
From the Shahan-Shah of Persia Yazdgerd to Omar Ibn Khat'tab the Arab Calif.
In your letter you summon us Persians to your god whom you call "Allah-u-Akbar"; and because of your barbarity and ignorance, without knowing who we are and Whom we worship, you demand that we seek out your god and become worshippers of "Allah-u-Akbar".
How strange that you occupy the seat of the Arab Calif but are as ignorant as any desert roaming Arab! You admonish me to become monotheistic in faith. Ignorant man, for thousands of years we Aryaee have, in this land of culture and art, been monotheistic and five times a day have we offered prayers to God's Throne of Oneness. While we laid the foundations of philanthropy and righteousness and kindness in this world and held high the ensign of "Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds", you and your ancestors were desert wanderers who ate snakes and lizards and buried your innocent daughters alive.
You Arabs who have no regard for God's creatures, who mercilessly put people to the sword, who mistreat your women and bury you daughters alive, who attack caravans and are highway robbers, who commit murder, who kidnap women and spouses; how dare you presume to teach us, who are above these evils, to worship God?
You tell me to cease the worship of fire and to worship God instead! To us Persians the light of Fire is reminiscent of the Light of God. The radiance and the sun-like warmth of fire exuberates our hearts, and the pleasant warmth of it brings our hearts and spirits closer together, that we may be philanthropic, kind and considerate, that gentleness and forgiveness may become our way of life, and that thereby the Light of God may keep shining in our hearts.
Our God is the Great Ahuramazda. Strange is this that you too have now decided to give Him a name, and you call Him by the name of "Allah-u-Akbar".
But we are nothing like you. We, in the name of Ahuramazda, practice compassion and love and goodness and righteousness and forgiveness, and care for the dispossessed and the unfortunate; But you, in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar" commit murder, create misery and subject others to suffering! Tell me truly who is to blame for your misdeeds? Your god who orders genocide, plunder and destruction, or you who do these things in his name? Or both?
You, who have spent all your days in brutality and barbarity, have now come out of your desolate deserts resolved to teach, by the blade and by conquest, the worship of God to a people who have for thousands of years been civilized and have relied on culture and knowledge and art as mighty supports.
What have you, in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar", taught these armies of Islam besides destruction and pillage and murder that you now presume to summon others to your god?
Today, my people's fortunes have changed. Their armies, who were subjects of Ahuramazada, have now been defeated by the Arab armies of "Allah-u-Akbar". And they are being forced, at the point of the sword, to convert to the god by the name of "Allah-u-Akbar". And are forced to offer him prayers five times a day but now in Arabic; since your "Allah-u-Akbar" only understands Arabic.
I advise you to return to your lizard infested deserts. Do not let loose upon our cities your cruel barbarous Arabs who are like rabid animals. Refrain from the murder of my people. Refrain from pillaging my people. Refrain from kidnapping our daughters in the name of your "Allah-u-Akbar". Refrain from these crimes and evils.
We Aryaee are a forgiving people, a kind and well-meaning people. Wherever we go, we sow the seeds of goodness, amity and righteousness. And this is why we have the capacity to overlook the crimes and the misdeeds of your Arabs.
Stay in your desert with your "Allah-u-Akbar", and do not approach our cities; for horrid is your belief and brutish is your conduct.
Yazdgerd Saasaani
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
But the Battle of Nahavand (642 A.D.), south of Hamadan, put an end to their hopes. Yazdegerd III spent the rest of his life as a fugitive, eluding capture and fermenting rebellion wherever he could. It is said that he spent time in China before winding up in the empire's northeastern outpost of Merv, whose Marzban, or March-lord named Mahuyeh, soon became soured by the imperious and expensive demands of Yazdegerd III. Mahuyeh turned against his Emperor and defeated him with the help of Hephthalites from Badghis. {The Hephthalites were a powerful nomadic confederation of White Huns from Central Asian. The Hephthalites had troubled the Sassanids since at least 590 A.D, when they had sided with Bahram Chubin, Khosrow Parviz's rebel general}. A Miller near Merv murdered the fugitive Emperor Yazdegerd III for his purse at Merv in 651 - under the instruction of Mahuyeh it is said. Yazdegerd III's daughter Shahr Banu, would marry the grandson of Muhammad, Husayn ibn Ali, and gave birth to the fourth Shia Imam, Ali Zayn al Abidin.
Arab Rule in Persia
With the fall of the empire, the fate of its religion was also sealed. Though the Muslims officially tolerated the Zoroastrian faith, desecrations, humiliations, and other such provocations were common; and persecutions were not unknown. The Muslims also used government policy to encourage conversion to Islam: The first edict was that only a Muslim could own Muslim slaves or indentured servants. Thus, a bonded individual owned by a Zoroastrian, could automatically become a freeman by converting to Islam. The other edict was that if one male member of a Zoroastrian family converted to Islam, he instantly inherited all its property.
From the first, pagans and idolaters (mostly Arab tribes at the beginning) were given the choice of conversion to Islam or death. This is the Islamic concept of jihad or holy war. However, beginning with the Jews at Yathrib and elsewhere in Arabia, and traditionally with the Christians of Najran. Muhammad recognized their having been blessed by Allah in possessing earlier revelations in the form of their scriptures. So while they were invited to submit to his new revelation, they were not required to do so; but if they did not, they would be taxed as subjects of their former country. Later defeated non-Arab peoples outside of Arabia who were Christians, Jews or Zoroastrians, were required to pay both a head tax, and an annual property tax, but likewise, were not required to abandon their faiths, or convert to Islam. However, when non-Arabs converted to Islam, they were exempted from the head tax, a substantial incentive to convert.
The Prophet Muhammad, had made Medina his capital, and it was there that he died. Leadership then fell to Abu Bakr (632-634), Muhammad's father-in-law and the first of the four orthodox Caliphs, or temporal leaders of the Muslims. Umar followed him (634-644) and organized the governmental administration of captured provinces. The third caliph was Uthman (644-656), under whose administration the compilation of the Quran is said to have been accomplished.
Problems of the Conquest
Soon After their victory; factionalism was growing among Arabs, partly the result of the jealousies and rivalries that accompanied the acquisition of new territories and partly the result of the competition between the first arrivals in Persia, and those who followed.
In Persia the first Arab conquerors had concluded treaties with local Persian magnates who had assumed authority when the Sassanian imperial government disintegrated. These notables—the marzbans and landlords (dehqans)—undertook to continue tax collection on behalf of the new Muslim power. The advent of Arab colonizers, who preferred to cultivate the land rather than campaign farther into Asia, produced a further complication. Once the Arabs had settled in Persian lands, they, like the Persian cultivators, were required to pay the kharaj, or land tax, which was collected by Persian notables for the Muslims in a system similar to that which had predated the conquest. The system was ripe for abuse, and the Persian collectors extorted large sums, arousing the hostility of both Arabs and Persians.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
THOROUGH DEBUNKING C/O LIONESS PRODUCTIONS
The MooFerferia (curly-hair in Persian) Facebook community has about 8000 members worldwide, and for the first time gathered in Tehran’s Nation Park in January 2011 for a few hours before they were asked to leave by park police.
^^^NOPE, deal with it Mike you're African not Persian
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Syrian army became the basis of Umayyad strength, enabling the bypassing of Arab tribal rivalries. It was under a later Umayyad Caliph, Umar II (reigned 717-720), that discontented mawali (non-Arab Muslims) were placed on the same footing with all other Muslims, without respect to nationality. This decree allowed Greeks, Turks and other Eurasians to fully assimilate into the Muslim brotherhood. Problem was, these mawalis (clients) were often better educated and more civilised than their Arab masters. The new converts, now with the basis of equality of all Muslims, transformed the political landscape.
The Abbasid dynasty
In 743, the death of the Umayyad Caliph Hisham provoked a civil war in the Islamic Empire. Abu al-Abbas as-Saffah , supported by Shi'as, Kharijis, and the residents of Khurasan, led his forces to victory over the Umayyads and ultimately deposed the last Umayyad caliph, Marwan II in 750. As-Saffah thereby became first Caliph of the Abbasid dynasty. The Abbasid dynasty would rule over Islam for approximately the next 500 years. The Abbasids established the caliphate in the new city of Baghdad, situated on the Tigris a short distance north of Ctesiphon and designed as a new city, free of the factions of the old Umayyad garrison cities of Al-Kufah, Wasit, and Al-Basrah. The strength of the Abbasid dynasty would be its Turkish troops.
The Abbasids were under pressure from the infidel on several fronts—Turks in Central Asia, pagans in India and the Hindu Kush, and Christians in Byzantium.
Rebellion within the Arab empire took the form of peasant revolts in Azerbaijan and Khorasan, coalesced by popular religious appeals centered on men who assumed or were accorded mysterious powers. Abu Muslim — executed in 755 by the second 'Abbasid caliph, al-Mansur, who feared his influence — became one such messianic figure.
skipping.
The Samanids
The eponym of the Samanids' origin was Saman-Khoda, a landlord in the district of Balkh, and according to the dynasty's claims, a descendant of Bahram Chubin, the Sassanian general. Saman had became a Muslim and his four grandsons were rewarded for services to the Arab caliph al-Ma'mun (reigned 813–833) and received the caliph's investiture for areas that included Samarkand and Herat. They thus gained wealthy Transoxanian and the east Khorasanian entry-port cities, where they could profit from trade that reached across Asia, even as far as Scandinavia. And from providing Turkish slaves—much in demand in Baghdad as royal troops (Mamluks). The Samanids also protected the frontiers and provided security for merchants in Bukhara, Samarkand, Khujand, and Herat. With one transitory exception, they upheld Sunnism and at each new accession to power, paid a tribute to Baghdad for the tokens of investiture from the caliph whereby their rule represented lawful authority.
Thus, legal transactions in Samanid realms would be valid, and Baghdad received tribute in return for the insignia prayed over and signed by the Arab caliph. This tribute took the place of regular revenue, so that it represented a solution of the taxation problems and consequent resentments that had bedeviled the Umayyad regime. In modern assessments of imperial power, the Arab caliph in Baghdad may seem to have been politically the weaker for this type of arrangement, but ensuring the reign of Islam in peripheral provinces was important to the Arab caliphs. As was to insure Islam's portals to East Asia were adequately guarded, and the supply of Turkish slaves essential for the caliph's bodyguard was maintained, and that the Turkish pagan tribes were converted to Islam under the Samanids.
It was during the rule of Abbasid caliph Harun ar-Rashid, that the caliphs began assigning Egypt to Turks rather than to Arabs
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Ghaznavids (Islamic Dynasty of Turkish slave origin)
The Tajikistanian (Central Asian) poet Rudaki (858-941), in a poem about the Samanid emir's court, describes how “row upon row” of Turkish slave guards were part of its adornment. From these Turkic guard ranks two military families arose—the Simjurids and Ghaznavids—who ultimately proved disastrous to the Samanids. The Simjurids received an appendage in the Kuhestan region of southern Khorasan. Alp Tigin founded the Ghaznavids when he established himself at Ghazna (modern Ghazni, Afghanistan) in 962. He and fellow Turk, Abu al-Hasan Simjuri, as Samanid generals, competed with each other for the governorship of Khorasan and control of the Samanid Empire by placing on the throne emirs they could dominate. Abu al-Hasan Simjuri died in 961, but a court party instigated by men of the scribal class—civilian ministers as contrasted with Turkish generals—rejected Alp Tigin's candidate for the Samanid throne, Mansur I was installed, and Alp Tigin prudently retired to his fief of Ghazna. Thus the Simjurids enjoyed control of Khorasan south of the Oxus river only.
The struggles of the Turkish slave generals for mastery of the Samanid throne, with the help of shifting allegiance from the court's ministerial leaders, both demonstrated and accelerated the Samanid decline. Samanid weakness attracted into Transoxania the Qarluq Turks, who had recently converted to Islam. They occupied Bukhara in 992, and established in Transoxania the Qarakhanid or Ilek Khanid dynasty. Alp Tigin had been succeeded at Ghazna by Sebüktigin (died 997). Sebüktigin's son Mahmud made an agreement with the Qarakhanids whereby the Oxus river was recognized as their mutual boundary. Thus the Samanids' dominion was divided and Mahmud was freed to advance westward into Khorasan to meet the Buyids.
Note: The reason why Turks have Arab names, is because as they converted to Islam, they took on Arab names. Thus Alp-Arslan assumed the name of "Muhammad bin Da'ud Chaghri" when he embraced Islam. The Turks of Saudi Arabia will often take the name or nickname "Turki" in deference to their origins.
Buyids/Buyahids/or Buyyids, were a dynasty that originated from Daylaman in Gilan, Northern Persia. The founders of the Būyid confederation were ‘Alī ibn Būyah and his two younger brothers, al-Hassan and Ahmad. The Deylamites/Dailamites were a possibly Persian people, inhabiting the mountainous regions of northern Persia on the southern shore of the Caspian Sea. The earliest Zoroastrian and Christian sources indicate that the Dailamites originally came from Anatolia near the Tigris River. They spoke the Deilami language, a northwestern Persia dialect similar to that of the neighbouring Gilites.
During the Sassanid period, they were employed as high-quality infantry. According to the Byzantine historians Procopius and Agathias, they were a warlike people and skilled in close combat, being armed each with a sword, a shield and spears or javelins. They supported the rebellion of the Parthian general Bahram Chobin against Persian King Khosrau II. Bahram Chobin sat on the Persian throne as Bahram VI for one year (590-591). But Khosrau II later employed an elite detachment of 4,000 Dailamites as part of his guard. The Sassanid general Wahriz, who was sent by Khosrau I in 570 to capture Yemen, was also probably of Dailamite descent, and his troops included Deilamites, who would later play a significant role in the conversion of Yemen to the nascent Islam. Following the Persian defeat at the Battle of al-Qādisiyyah, the 4,000-strong Dailamite contingent of the Persian guard, along with other Persian units, defected to the Arab side, and converted to Islam. Nevertheless, the Dailamites managed to resist the Arab invasion of their own mountainous homeland for several centuries under their own local rulers.
At the end of the 9th century, the Buyids had been stirred into warlike activity by a number of factors, among them the rebel Rafi' ibn Harthama's attempt to penetrate their region, ostensibly with Samanid support - Samanid Amr ibn Layth had pursued the rebel into the region. Other factors had been the formation of Shi'ite principalities in the area, and continued Samanid attempts to subjugate them. After the Tahirid collapse, the lack of stability in northern Persia south of the Elburz Mountains attracted many Daylamite mercenaries into the area on military adventures. Among them Makan ibn Kaki who had served the Samanids with his compatriots, the sons of Buyeh, and their allies the Ziyarids, under Mardavij. It was Mardavij who introduced the three Buyid brothers to the Persian plateau, where he established an empire reaching as far south as Esfahan and Hamadan. Mardavij was murdered in 935, and his Ziyarid descendants sought Samanid protection.
Mardavij's expansionism south of the Elburz was then taken up by his Buyid lieutenants: the eldest brother Ali, consolidated power for himself in Esfahan and Fars, and obtained the Arab caliph's recognition. Another brother Hasan, occupied Rayy and Hamadan; and the youngest brother Ahmad, took Kerman in the southeast and Khuzestan in the southwest.
By now the Arab caliphs of the 960s period, al-Muttaqi and then al-Mustakfi, were at the mercy of their Turkish slaves in the palace guard. Their Turkish generals competed with each other for the office of amir al-umara' (commander in chief), who virtually ruled Iraq on behalf of the caliphs. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Mike posts a lot of info but makes no point.
Mike, maybe if you post 400 more pages somehow a statement will pop out of that
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The other Turks
Although the Buyids were careful to avoid sectarian strife, family quarrels weakened them sufficiently for Mahmud of Ghazna to take Rayy in 1029. But Mahmud (reigned 998–1030) went no farther: his dynasty paid great deference to the Arab caliphate's legitimating power, and he made no bid to contest the Buyids' role as its protectors. Mahmud's agreement with the Samanids that the Oxus river should be their mutual boundary held, but south of the river, the Ghaznavids had to contend with their own distant relatives, the Oguz Turks. Contrary to the sage counsel of Persian ministers, Mahmud and his successor Mas'ud (reigned 1031–41) permitted these Turk tribesmen to use Khorasanian grazing grounds, which they entered from north of the Oxus. These nomadic Turks, united under descendants of an Oguz leader named Seljuq, between 1038 and 1040, drove the Ghaznavids out of northeastern Persia, the final encounter was at Dandanqan in 1040.
After their defeat by the Seljuq Turks, the Ghaznavid Turks, former patrons of Arab Islamic culture and letters, were deflected eastward into India, where Mahmud had already conducted successful raids. These raids took the form of jihad (or holy war), and the Ghaznavids carried Islam and Persian Muslim art to the Indian subcontinent. In Persia it was now the Seljuqs turn to create a new imperial synthesis with the Arab Abbasid caliphs.
Turkish Rule The Seljuqs
Toghril Beg proclaimed himself sultan at Neyshabur in 1038, and had espoused strict Sunnism, by which he gained the Arab caliph's confidence and undermined the Buyid position in Baghdad. The Oguz Turks had accepted Islam late in the 10th century, and their leaders displayed a convert's zeal in their efforts to restore a Muslim polity along orthodox lines. Their efforts were made all the more urgent by the spread of Fatimid Isma'ili propaganda (Arabic da'wah) in the eastern Caliphate by means of an underground network of propagandists or da'is, intent on undermining the Buyid regime, and also by the threat posed by the Christian Crusaders.
The Buyids' usurpation of the Arab caliph's secular power, had given rise to a new theory of state formulated by al-Mawardi (died 1058). Al-Mawardi's treatise partly prepared the theoretical ground for Toghril Begs attempt to establish an orthodox Muslim state in which conflict between the Arab caliph-imam's spiritual-juridical authority on the one side, and the secular power of the sultan on the other, could be resolved, or at least regulated, by convention. Al-Mawardi reminded the Muslim world of the necessity of the imamate; but the treatise realistically admitted the existence of, and thus accommodated the fact of military usurpation of power. The Seljuq Turks own political theorist al-Ghazali (died 1111) carried this admission further, by explaining that the position of a powerless Arab caliph, overshadowed by a strong Seljuq Turk master, was one in which the latter's presence guaranteed the former's capacity to defend and extend Islam.
The Arab caliph al-Qa'im (reigned 1031–75) replaced the last Buyid's name, al-Malik al-Rahim, in the khutbah and on the coins, with that of Toghril Beg; and after protracted negotiation ensuring restoration of the caliph's dignity after Shi'ite subjugation, Toghril entered Baghdad in December 1055. The Arab caliph enthroned him and married a Seljuq princess. Buyid power was thus terminated, ending what Vladimir Minorsky, the great Persiaologist, called the “Persian intermezzo.”
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
how convincing, I give up, Mike's right we have a match
I'm black but don't wanna be an African la la la I'm black but wish I was European la la la la Grimaldi and Persians they're my peoples la la la la but Nigerians are a little too dark for me, la la la We built the Parthenon la la la Jane Austin was negro la la la la OH I don't want to be an African la la la la la
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
After Toghril had campaigned successfully as far as Syria, he was given the title of “king of the east and west.” The new situation was justified by the theory that existing practice was legal whereby a new caliph could be instituted by the sultan, who possessed effective power and sovereignty, but that thereafter the sultan owed the caliph allegiance because only so long as the caliph-imam's juridical faculties were recognized could government be valid.
Toghril Beg died in 1063. His heir, Alp-Arslan, was succeeded by Malik-Shah in 1072, and the latter's death in 1092 led to succession disputes out of which Berk-Yaruq emerged triumphant to reign until 1105. After a brief reign, Malik-Shah II was succeeded by Muhammad I (reigned 1105–18). The last “Great Seljuq” was Sanjar (1118–57), who had earlier been governor of Khorasan.
The Khwarezm-Shah
With the fall of the Seljugs, the Turk Anush Tigin Gharchai, a former slave of the Seljuq sultans, and who was appointed the governor of Khwarezm, established the Khwarezm-Shah dynasty (1077–1231). His son Qutb ud-Dīn Muhammad I by 1205 had conquered the remaining parts of the Great Seljuq Empire, proclaiming himself Shah (king). He eventually became known as the Khwarezmshah. In 1212 he defeated the Gur-Khan Kutluk and conquered the lands of the Kara Khitay, now ruling a territory from the Syr Darya almost all the way to Baghdad, and from the Indus River to the Caspian Sea. Genghis Khan
In 1218, Genghis Khan sent a trade mission to the Khwarezm-Shah, but at the town of Otrara (a Central Asian town that was located along the Silk Road near the current town of Karatau in Kazakhstan) the governor there, suspecting the Khan's ambassadors to be spies, confiscated their goods and executed them. Genghis Khan demanded reparations, which the Shah refused to pay. Genghis Khan then sent a second, purely diplomatic mission, they too were murdered. Genghis retaliated with a force of 200,000 men, launching a multi-pronged invasion, his guides were Muslim merchants from Transoxania. During the years 1220–21, Bukhara, Samarkand, Herat (all Central Asian cities), Tus (Susa), and Neyshabur (Persian cities) were razed, and the whole populations were slaughtered. (This represented the first wholesale slaughter of Black Persians).
The Khwarezm-Shah fled, to die on an island off the Caspian coast. His son Jalal al-Din survived until murdered in Kurdistan in 1231. He had eluded Genghis Khan on the Indus River, across which his horse swam, enabling him to escape to India. He returned to attempt restoring the Khwarezmian empire over Persia. However, he failed to unite the Persian regions, even though Genghis Khan had withdrawn to Mongolia, where he died in August 1227. Persia was left divided, with Mongol agents remaining in some districts and local adventurers profiting from the lack of order in others.
(The Mongol blood is obvious here)
Iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Arabs lose, and Turks take, Rule over Islam
A second Mongol invasion began when Genghis Khan's grandson Hülegü Khan crossed the Oxus river in 1256 and destroyed the Assassin fortress at Alamut. With the disintegration of the Seljuq empire, the Arab Caliphate had reasserted control in the area around Baghdad and in southwestern Persia. In 1258 Hülegü besieged Baghdad, Al-Musta'sim, the last Arab Abbasid caliph of Baghdad, was trampled to death by mounted troops (in the style of Mongol royal executions). The Abbasids rule resumed in Mamluk governed Egypt in 1261, from where they continued to claim authority in religious matters only. That is until 1519, when all power was formally transferred to the Ottomans in their capital of Constantinople.
Turkish subjugation of the Arabs became complete, when Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II (1808-39), instructed the Albanian Turk ruler of Egypt, the viceroy "Muhammad Ali" to put down a rebellion by Wahhabis Arabs in the Hejaz. Muhammad Ali sent an Albanian army to Arabia, that between 1811 and 1813, expelled the Wahhabis Arabs from the Hejaz. In a further campaign (1816-18), Ibrahim Pasha, the viceroy's eldest son, defeated the Wahhabis in their homeland of Najd, and brought central Arabia also under Albanian control. As in the rest of the Middle East, the Ottoman Turks retained military and political control over Arabia until the end of WW I, after which time, it was passed to local Turks.
Hülegü hoped to consolidate Mongol rule over western Asia and to extend the Mongol empire as far as the Mediterranean, an empire that would span the Earth from China to the Levant. Hülegü made Persia his base, but the Mamluks of Egypt (former Turkish slave soldiers of the Arab caliphate, who rebelled in 1250 and established their own dynasty in Egypt.) prevented him and his successors from achieving their great imperial goal, by decisively defeating a Mongol army at Ayn Jalut in 1260. Instead, a Mongol dynasty called the Il-Khans, or “deputy khans” to the great khan in China, was established in Persia to attempt repair of the damage done by the first Mongol invasion. (It is at this time, at the battle of Ayn Jalut, that Black Egyptians demonstrate that almost two thousand years of occupation, had not diminished their genius. At this battle, they unveil the worlds first "Gun" and the Mamluks use it successfully to repel the Mongols).
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
Mike111
You're dropping tons of text all over the place. Can you please state what your point or arguement is first, before you post your texts to back it up?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Timur (Tamurlaine "Timur the Lame")
Timur, who claimed descent from Genghis Khan's family, was a member of the Turkicized Barlas tribe, a Mongol subgroup that had settled in Transoxania (now roughly corresponding to Uzbekistan). After taking part in Genghis Khan's son Chagatai's campaigns in that region, and after the death in 1357 of Transoxania's ruler, Amir Kazgan. Timur declared his fealty to the khan of nearby Kashgar: Tughluq Temür, who had overrun Transoxania's chief city Samarqand, a city in east-central Uzbekistan in 1361. In about 1370 Timur turned against Amir Husayn, besieged him in Balkh, and after Husayn's assassination, proclaimed himself at Samarqand, sovereign of the Chagatai line of khans and restorer of the Mongol empire.
In 1383 Timur began his conquests in Persia with the capture of Herat. The Persian political and economic situation was extremely precarious. The signs of recovery visible under the later Mongol rulers known as the Il-Khanid dynasty, had been followed by a setback after the death of the last Il-Khanid, Abu Said in 1335. The vacuum of power was filled by rival dynasties, torn by internal dissensions and unable to put up joint or effective resistance. Khorasan and all eastern Persia fell to him in 1383–85; Fars, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Mesopotamia, and Georgia all fell between 1386 and 1394. In the intervals, he was engaged with Tokhtamysh, then khan of the Golden Horde, whose forces invaded Azerbaijan in 1385 and Transoxania in 1388, defeating Timur's generals. In 1391 Timur pursued Tokhtamysh into the Russian steppes and defeated and dethroned him; but Tokhtamysh raised a new army and invaded the Caucasus in 1395. After his final defeat on the Kur River, Tokhtamysh gave up the struggle; Timur occupied Moscow for a year.
The Slaughter and Annialation of Black Persians
Meanwhile, the revolts that broke out all over Persia while Timur was away on these campaigns were repressed with ruthless vigour; whole cities were destroyed, their populations massacred, and towers built of their skulls.
In 1398 Timur invaded India on the pretext that the Muslim sultans of Delhi were showing excessive tolerance to their Hindu subjects. He crossed the Indus River on September 24 and, leaving a trail of carnage, marched on Delhi. The army of the Delhi sultan Mahmud Tughluq was destroyed at Panipat on December 17, and Delhi was reduced to a mass of ruins, from which it took more than a century to emerge. By April 1399 Timur was back in his own capital. An immense quantity of spoil was carried away; according to Ruy Gonzalez de Clavijo, 90 captured elephants were employed to carry stones from quarries to erect a mosque at Samarqand.
After the decline of the Timurid Empire (1370–1506), Persia was politically splintered, giving rise to a number of religious movements. The demise of Tamerlane’s political authority created a space in which several religious communities, particularly Shi’i ones, could now come to the fore and gain prominence. Among these were a number of Sufi brotherhoods, the Hurufis, Nuqtawis and Musha‘sha‘. Of these various movements, the Safawid Qizilbash was the most politically resilient.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Skipping The Safavids and The Zand dynasty (Parthians) 1750–79.
The Qajar dynasty (1796–1925)
Between 1779 and 1789 the Zands fought among themselves over their legacy. In the end it fell to the gallant Lotf 'Ali, the Zands' last hope. Agha Muhammad Khan relentlessly hunted him down until he overcame and killed him at the southeastern city of Kerman in 1794. In 1796 Agha Muhammad Khan assumed the imperial diadem, and later in the same year he took Mashhad. Shah Rokh died of the tortures inflicted on him to make him reveal the complete tally of the Afsharids' treasure. Agha Muhammad was cruel and he was avaricious.
Karim Khan's commercial efforts were nullified by his successors' quarrels. With cruel irony, attempts to revive the Persian Gulf trade were followed by a British mission from India in 1800, which ultimately opened the way for a drain of Persian bullion to India. This drain was made inevitable by the damage done to Persia's productive capacity during Agha Muhammad Khan's campaigns to conquer the country.
(Nice and Pink Albinos, aren't they).
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Rise of Reza Khan
Until the beginning of World War I, Russia effectively ruled Persia, but with the outbreak of hostilities, Russian troops withdrew from the north of the country, and Persians convened the third Majles. Jubilation was short-lived, however, as the country quickly turned into a battlefield between British, German, Russian, and Turkish forces. The landed elite hoped to find in Germany a foil for the British and Russians, but change eventually was to come from the north.
Following the Russian Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, the new Soviet government unilaterally canceled the tsarist concessions in Persia, an action that created tremendous goodwill toward the new Soviet Union and, after the Central Powers were defeated, left Britain the sole Great Power in Persia. In 1919 the Majles, after much internal wrangling, refused a British offer of military and financial aid that effectively would have made Persia into a protectorate of Britain. The British were initially loath to withdraw from Persia but caved to international pressure and removed their advisers by 1921. In that same year British diplomats lent their support to an Persian officer of the Persian Cossack Brigade, Reza Khan, who in the previous year had been instrumental in putting down a rebellion led by Mirza Kuchak Khan, who had sought to form an independent Soviet-style republic in Persia's northern province of Gilan. In collaboration with a political writer, Sayyid Ziya al-Din Tabataba'i, Reza Khan staged a coup in 1921 and took control of all military forces in Persia. Between 1921 and 1925 Reza Khan—first as war minister and later as prime minister under Ahmad Shah—built an army that was loyal solely to him. He also managed to forge political order in a country that for years had known nothing but turmoil. Initially Reza Khan wished to declare himself president in the style of Turkey's secular nationalist president, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk—a move fiercely opposed by the Shi'ite 'ulama'—but instead he deposed the weak Ahmad Shah in 1925 and had himself crowned Reza Shah Pahlavi.
Reza Shah's need to expand trade, his fear of Soviet control over Persia's overland routes to Europe, and his apprehension at renewed Soviet and continued British presence in Persia drove him to expand trade with Nazi Germany in the 1930s. His refusal to abandon what he considered to be obligations to numerous Germans in Persia served as a pretext for an Anglo-Soviet invasion of his country in 1941. Intent on ensuring the safe passage of U.S. war matériel to the Soviet Union through Persia, the Allies forced Reza Shah to abdicate, placing his young son Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi on the throne. The Name Change
In 1935 the Iranian government requested those countries with which it had diplomatic relations, to call Persia "Iran". The suggestion for the change is said to have come from the Iranian ambassador to Germany, who came under the influence of the Nazis. At the time Germany was in the grip of racial fever and cultivated good relations with nations of "Arian" blood. It is said that some German friends of the ambassador persuaded him that, as with the advent of Reza Shah, Persia had turned a new leaf in its history. It was only fitting that the country be called "Iran." This would not only signal a new beginning, and bring home to the world, the new era in history, but would also signify the NOW Arian race of its population, as "Iran" is a cognate of "Arian" and derived from it.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The End
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
I hope you younger Blacks made careful note of what Lioness and melchior7 were doing during the postings.
Whites will rarely be that obvious, but the intent is always the same - Beware! Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I hope you younger Blacks made careful note of that Mike111 is in severe denial of his African ancestry. He makes numerous posts about being European, Middle Eastern, etc. Afrocentric posters have noted his disrespectful remarks against his own African people over the YEARS
The End
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
Ok I think I get it now. The Iranian ambassador to Germany conspired with Nazis to spread some kind of DNA altering formula throught Perisa to make people look Aryan and then arranged to have the name of the country changed to Iran.
But you know what really disappoints me? There is no mention of the Mothership in your little story. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Ok I think I get it now. The Iranian ambassador to Germany conspired with Nazis to spread some kind of DNA altering formula throught Perisa to make people look Aryan and then arranged to have the name of the country changed to Iran.
But you know what really disappoints me? There is no mention of the Mothership in your little story.
Mike is not NOI, that's Melaninking
Posted by 1.0.0. (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
You're sooo sad at least we have something in Common Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: The End
Nice overview Mike. Irrefutably accurate.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Great review of how the Turks stole the Black History of Iran/Persia.
.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Great review of how the Turks stole the Black History of Iran/Persia.
.
But Clyde the Persians were Indo European speaking people so they must have had some connection with light people skinned people in the Steppes. Also Turks are Mongol people who look Asiatic, unlike most Iranians whose features seem more "Mediterrean".
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Great review of how the Turks stole the Black History of Iran/Persia.
Don't forget Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, and Libya. In Turkey and the other places, they have even had the gall to teach the native people that they were brought there as Slaves - and they have no way of knowing any better - ignorance can be a terrible thing. Arabia they can have, those people deserve it.
Perhaps now you see why I have so very little patience with the Sand Nigger types. After what their ancestors have done, to then claim that THEY are Egyptians, Persians, etc. Well, it's just too much, I have to curse those lying bastards out.
Posted by kikuyu2 (Member # 19316) on :
Where's captain00? Somehow I doubt he'll be thanking you for that exposition on how the history of the blackman in the Middle East was stolen by recent Caucasoids. But I will give you 2 thumbs up.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
kikuyu2 - When you call them Caucasians, you are merely perpetuating their lies.
Colchians were Caucasians - people who lived in the Caucasus region - They were a Black people.
To quote Herodotus:
Book 1 - CLIO
[2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times.
Whites are central Asian Albinos (Herodotus: The Budini of Gelonus (east-central Ukraine), whom he describes as (they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair). These are people who merely "settled or Passed through" the Caucasus region.
The Eastern Black Sea region was home to the well-developed bronze age culture, known as the Colchian culture. In at least some parts of Colchis, the process of urbanization seems to have been well advanced by the end of the second millennium B.C, centuries before Greek settlement. The Colchian Late Bronze Age (15th to 8th Centurys B.C.) saw the development of significant skill in the smelting and casting of metals, that began long before this skill was mastered in Europe. Sophisticated farming implements were made, and the fertile, well-watered lowlands with their mild climate, promoted the growth of progressive agricultural techniques.
According to Greek mythology, Colchis was a fabulously wealthy land situated on the mysterious periphery of the heroic world. Here in the sacred grove of the war god Ares, King Aeëtes hung the Golden Fleece until it was seized by Jason and the Argonauts. Colchis was also the land where the mythological Prometheus was punished by being chained to a mountain while an eagle ate at his liver, for revealing to humanity the secret of fire. The Amazons also were said to be from Colchis. The main mythical characters from Colchis are Aeëtes, Medea, Absyrtus, Chalciope, Circe, Eidyia, Pasiphaë.
In about 730 B.C, Colchis was overrun by the White Kurgan tribes called Cimmerians and Scythians. But they appear to have done little permanent damage.
In about 600 B.C, the advanced economy of Colchis soon attracted the attention of the Milesian Greeks in Anatolia (Turkey), who colonized the Colchian coast and established trading posts at Phasis, Gyenos, and Sukhumi.
In about 580 B.C, the kingdom came under the control of (probably by the dating); King Astyages of the Median Empire. Which would soon become part of the first Persian Empire under Cyrus II, the Great. (The Sassanian was the second Persian Empire).
Herodotus in Book 3 says: The tribes living in southern Colchis (the Tibareni, Mossynoeci, Macrones, Moschoi, and Marres) were incorporated in the 19th Satrapy of the Persian King Darius; while the northern tribes submitted “voluntarily” and had to send to the Persian court 100 girls and 100 boys in every 5 years.
The Tibareni - Called Tubal by Josephus Flavius (see below) - He identifies them with the (Eastern) Iberians and Cappadocians.
The Macrones (Makrones) were an original Colchian tribe.
The Moschoi - Josephus Flavius identified the Moschoi with the Biblical Meshech. Meshech is named with Tubal (and Rosh, in certain translations) as principalities of "Gog, prince of Magog" in Ezekiel 38:2 and 39:1, and is considered a Japhetite tribe, identified by Flavius Josephus with the Cappadocian Moschoi (Mushki, also associated with Phrygians or Bryges) and their capital Mazaca. Another Meshech is named as a son of Aram in 1 Chronicles 1:17 (corresponding to the form Mash in Genesis 10). In Hippolytus of Rome's chronicle (234 AD), the "Illyrians" were identified as Meshech's offspring. In addition, Georgians have traditions that they, and other Caucasus people including Armenians, share descent from Meshech.
The Mossynoeci - (Greek word Mossynoikoi "dwellers in wooden towers"). The Greeks of the Black Sea area applied it to the peoples of Pontus, on the northern Anatolian coast.
Soon after the arrival of the Persians, the influence of the vast Achaemenid Empire with its thriving commerce and wide economic and commercial ties with other regions, resulted in the socio-economic re-development of Colchis.
East of Colchis, was the kingdom Iberia. After the fall of the Persian Empire, Colchis was annexed and became a part of the recently created Kingdom of Kartli (some sources reverse the order, with Kartli being the former) under Iberian king Parnavazin I, ca. 302 B.C. Parnavaz (whose name is Persian), is then reported to have embarked on social and cultural projects; he supervises two building projects: the raising of the idol Armazi – reputedly named after him – on a mountain ledge and the construction of a similarly-named fortress. He is also alleged to have invented (or reformed) the Georgian alphabet. (A Aramaic alphabet from pre-Christian Georgia has been archaeologically documented).
In about 100 B.C, the area was conquered by Mithradates VI, king of Pontus in northern Anatolia (Turkey). Mithradates is reported to have been of "mixed race" Greek and Persian origin, for he claimed descent from Alexander the Great and King Darius I of Persia.
Mithradates VI quelled an uprising in the region in about 83 B.C, and gave Colchis to his son Mithradates Chrestus; who was soon executed for being suspected of plotting against his father. During the Third Mithridatic War, Mithridates VI made another of his son "Machares" king of Colchis, but he held his power for only a short time. On the defeat of Mithridates VI by the Roman general Pompey in 65 B.C, Colchis was occupied by Pompey, who installed Aristarchus as king. On the fall of Pompey, Pharnaces II, son of Mithridates, took advantage of Roman king Julius Caesar being occupied in Egypt, and re-conquered Pontic territory. Under Polemon I, the son and successor of Pharnaces II, Colchis was part of the Pontus and Bosporan Kingdom. After the death of Polemon I (after 2 B.C.), his second wife Pythodoris, retained possession of Colchis as well as of Pontus itself; though the kingdom of Bosporus was wrested from her power. Her son and successor Polemon II of Pontus, was induced by Emperor Nero to abdicate his throne, and both Pontus and Colchis were incorporated into the Roman province of Galatia.
Soon the lowlands and coastal area of Colchis, began to suffer raids by White tribes from the surrounding mountains; the Soanes and Heniochi being the most powerful of them. After swearing allegence to Rome, the White tribes were allowed to create their own kingdoms in Colchis; which enjoyed significant independence from Rome. Christianity began to spread in the early 1st century A.D. Traditional accounts relate the event with Saint Andrew, Saint Simon the Zealot, and Saint Matata. However the previous religious beliefs, like the Hellenistic, the local pagan and the Mithraic beliefs, would still be widespread until the 4th century A.D. By about the 130s A.D. the new kingdoms of Machelons, Heniochi, Egrisi, Apsilia, Abasgia, and Sanigia, had sprung up from south to north. The Goths, dwelling in the Crimea and looking for new homes, raided Colchis in 253 A.D, but they were repulsed with the help of the Roman garrison of Pitsunda. By the 3rd-4th centuries A.D, most of the local kingdoms and principalities had been subjugated by the (Turkic) Lazic kings, and thereafter the country was generally referred to as Lazica. In the late 8th century A.D, Colchis was attached to Abasgia, which in turn was incorporated into Russian Georgia. Blacks however, are said to have survived in the area until the early 20th century.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Great review of how the Turks stole the Black History of Iran/Persia.
.
But Clyde the Persians were Indo European speaking people so they must have had some connection with light people skinned people in the Steppes. Also Turks are Mongol people who look Asiatic, unlike most Iranians whose features seem more "Mediterrean".
wrong the Iranians spoke an Indo-Aryan language. The Iranians came in contact with I-E speaking Greeks when Persians deported Greeks to Afghanistan.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
I-E languages are a myth . These languages are related because of contact. Greek related to Indian languages due to Greek rule. Roman spread of Greek among colonies as a literary language.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
The colchians were not black.
Mike only quotes herodotus, but fails to quote from Hippocrates, Strabo and about 10 other sources which described the colchians as WHITE.
This is typically what afrocentric liars do.
They will select and distort quotes. In mike case he only uses herodotus, and ignores all the others.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I-E languages are a myth . These languages are related because of contact. Greek related to Indian languages due to Greek rule. Roman spread of Greek among colonies as a literary language.
But the Vedas written in Sanskrit date from 1000 B.C or so way before any Greek contacts.
Also Lithuanian is the closest modern language to Sanskrit.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The colchians were not black.
Mike only quotes herodotus, but fails to quote from Hippocrates, Strabo and about 10 other sources which described the colchians as WHITE.
This is typically what afrocentric liars do.
They will select and distort quotes. In mike case he only uses herodotus, and ignores all the others.
Why don't YOU quote from them, and link your source, lying Albino ass-wipe boy?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I-E languages are a myth . These languages are related because of contact. Greek related to Indian languages due to Greek rule. Roman spread of Greek among colonies as a literary language.
But the Vedas written in Sanskrit date from 1000 B.C or so way before any Greek contacts.
Also Lithuanian is the closest modern language to Sanskrit.
The vedas were maintained as oral literature until they were put to text. The vedas were written in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit was a lingua franca created by Panini. When Sanskrit was written Greeks had been living in the Punjab for over 3-200 years.
Lithuanian may be closest to Sanskrit because of Greek influence.
.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Why don't YOU quote from them, and link your source, lying Albino ass-wipe boy? =========
Medea the daughter of King Aeëtes of Colchis is described by the ancient poet Euripides as follows:
''But then she veiled her eyes and turned away her white cheek, disgusted that they'd come.''
Medea is also described as blonde (golden) haired.
So the princess of Colchis was pale skinned and blonde.
How many blonde haired pale white negroids are there? Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha: Damn ass-wipe Albino boy, who uses his girlish Loong hair to wipe his vile filthy Albino ass.
That's not even a good try.
A PRIVATE site, and a PRIVATE translation, by another ass-wipe Albino boy, who uses his girlish Loong hair to wipe his vile filthy Albino ass? You gotta be kidding!
Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Sacred Texts Archives have translations of ancient writings - find it there. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
The vedas were maintained as oral literature until they were put to text. The vedas were written in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit was a lingua franca created by Panini. When Sanskrit was written Greeks had been living in the Punjab for over 3-200 years.
Lithuanian may be closest to Sanskrit because of Greek influence.
Greek influence in the Baltic region? Panini develovepd calssical sanskrit. Veda Sanskrit is much earlier and perserved in written texts. Asude from the linguistic issue. The expansion of Indo European speakers in Asia corresponds with the spread of Y dna hpalogroup R1a with stretches from India to Iceland. One can not ignore facts simply to promote wishful theories. Will you argue that the Persian language is also a result of contact with with Greeks? I can see how contacts could result in certain loan words perhaps with regard to certian crops or commodites but primary words like mother, father, brother, not to mention numerals, and grammatical structure, I seriously doubt.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB]
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Mike the above is a hand colored photo that was originally black and white. = Unsourced, of course, as to what book it's from or original caption titles, as you want to conceal that. That's your unscholarly style.
^^^This man would not be out of place in the earlier photo at top you posted.
Yes in history defeated people are deprived of the spoils, what else is new. Do Japanese people cry endlessly of being defeated in WW2? -and that's much more recent.
You know what you are telecasting endlessly? Is that black people's identify is that of the ultimate loser, defeat, defeat ,defeat
-no that is not helping our psyche
It is victimization culture and that was a 1990's trend that got us nowhere.
You can only look backward
and tantrum, that is your life
Posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718) (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: You know what you are telecasting endlessly? Is that black people's identify is that of the ultimate loser, defeat, defeat ,defeat
This is lil Mikeyboys M.O., the white man is the all powerful conqueror of blacks worldwide running them out of Europe, China etc... SMH.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^The fact IS that Blacks ARE victims, and have been victims for some time now.
It is also true that Blacks are still indisputably in possession of the greater part of the Earths wealth - by far. But it is also true that Blacks are the Poorest race.
With history, and those realities in mind, the inescapable conclusion is that Whites come evil, and the Black man now comes stupid.
I am not sure what brought that about.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
In 1991, the American comedian Sam Kinison did this routine in regards to the Somalia famine of that year. Many people were outraged.
It is now 2011, Sam Kinison is dead now, but you have to admit that his advice did have merit, wonder why Somali didn't see that.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Whites come evil, and the Black man now comes stupid.
Could you improve this a little bit grammatically. Respectfully, it sounds a little retarded how you phrased it.
Posted by AGÜEYBANÁ(Mind718) (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: I am not sure what brought that about.
Your imagination? lol
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Mike and Clyde provide factual data, and the reactionaries respond with emotional outbursts and personal attacks. That's the M.O. of non-intellectual racists. Just my observation.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Greek hand loom. Satire Odysseus and Kirke drawing after a Boeotian vase . Skyphos Ashmolean Museum Oxford Anyone notice the Ammit looking figure not saying it is but???
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Thanks.
Boeotian black figure skyphos bowl, decorated with the loom of Circe (or Kírke, the daughter of Helios, the god of the sun, and Perse, an oceanid, and the sister of Aeetes - King of Colchis and the keeper of the Golden Fleece, Perses, and Pasiphaë: the Wife of King Minos and mother of the Minotaur). She is shown with Odysseus, King of Ithaca, husband of Penelope, father of Telemachus, and son of Laërtes and Anticlea. circa 450 B.C.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^ JUST FOR FUN, I THOUGHT I WOULD SEE HOW THE LYING, HISTORY FALSIFYING ALBINOS, WERE DEPICTING Circe and Odysseus.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, I WASN'T DISAPPOINTED!!!!!
Head of Odysseus from a Greek 2nd century BC marble group representing Odysseus blinding Polyphemus, found at the villa of Tiberius at Sperlonga
(Damn - this FAKE is GOOD! They really made it look OLD!)
Circe Offering the Cup to Odysseus, by John William Waterhouse.
Circe, by Charles Gumery
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
^ No logic in your posts.
You claim all ancient artwork of white people are fakes.
So anyone can just apply the same retarded logic to you...
ALL BLACKS IN GREEK ART ARE FAKES
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: The vedas were maintained as oral literature until they were put to text. The vedas were written in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit was a lingua franca created by Panini. When Sanskrit was written Greeks had been living in the Punjab for over 3-200 years.
Lithuanian may be closest to Sanskrit because of Greek influence.
Greek influence in the Baltic region? Panini develovepd calssical sanskrit. Veda Sanskrit is much earlier and perserved in written texts. Asude from the linguistic issue. The expansion of Indo European speakers in Asia corresponds with the spread of Y dna hpalogroup R1a with stretches from India to Iceland. One can not ignore facts simply to promote wishful theories. Will you argue that the Persian language is also a result of contact with with Greeks? I can see how contacts could result in certain loan words perhaps with regard to certian crops or commodites but primary words like mother, father, brother, not to mention numerals, and grammatical structure, I seriously doubt.
What written vedic text before sanskrit?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Wow - interesting photo, Brada! It does show the the continued early influence of African worship in the east European and Near Easter world.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I hope you younger Blacks made careful note of that Mike111 is in severe denial of his African ancestry. He makes numerous posts about being European, Middle Eastern, etc. Afrocentric posters have noted his disrespectful remarks against his own African people over the YEARS
The End
Svenska - i don't agree with all MIKE says. Some of it I view as very racist, but I think you need to stop projecting yourself onto MIKE and go back to the Broomhilda's picturespam web-site. That way you can better hone ur skill of of modifying photographs to suit Eurofantastic dreams and wishful thinking.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: The vedas were maintained as oral literature until they were put to text. The vedas were written in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit was a lingua franca created by Panini. When Sanskrit was written Greeks had been living in the Punjab for over 3-200 years.
Lithuanian may be closest to Sanskrit because of Greek influence.
Greek influence in the Baltic region? Panini develovepd calssical sanskrit. Veda Sanskrit is much earlier and perserved in written texts. Asude from the linguistic issue. The expansion of Indo European speakers in Asia corresponds with the spread of Y dna hpalogroup R1a with stretches from India to Iceland. One can not ignore facts simply to promote wishful theories. Will you argue that the Persian language is also a result of contact with with Greeks? I can see how contacts could result in certain loan words perhaps with regard to certian crops or commodites but primary words like mother, father, brother, not to mention numerals, and grammatical structure, I seriously doubt.
What written vedic text before sanskrit?
It was a cruder form of Sanskrit, not classical sanskrit. The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim! Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: The vedas were maintained as oral literature until they were put to text. The vedas were written in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit was a lingua franca created by Panini. When Sanskrit was written Greeks had been living in the Punjab for over 3-200 years.
Lithuanian may be closest to Sanskrit because of Greek influence.
Greek influence in the Baltic region? Panini develovepd calssical sanskrit. Veda Sanskrit is much earlier and perserved in written texts. Asude from the linguistic issue. The expansion of Indo European speakers in Asia corresponds with the spread of Y dna hpalogroup R1a with stretches from India to Iceland. One can not ignore facts simply to promote wishful theories. Will you argue that the Persian language is also a result of contact with with Greeks? I can see how contacts could result in certain loan words perhaps with regard to certian crops or commodites but primary words like mother, father, brother, not to mention numerals, and grammatical structure, I seriously doubt.
What written vedic text before sanskrit?
It was a cruder form of Sanskrit, not classical sanskrit. The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE.
LOL. Samhitas is not a script.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim!
How pathetic you Albinos are (You and the Turk idiot with the DVD). Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim!
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
.
.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Posted by kikuyu2 (Member # 19316) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: kikuyu2 - When you call them Caucasians, you are merely perpetuating their lies.
Colchians were Caucasians - people who lived in the Caucasus region - They were a Black people.
To quote Herodotus:
Book 1 - CLIO
[2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times.
Whites are central Asian Albinos (Herodotus: The Budini of Gelonus (east-central Ukraine), whom he describes as (they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair). These are people who merely "settled or Passed through" the Caucasus region.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
I think this colorful " image" gives us a better "view".
What's up with the picture of the Ghanian soccer player?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Sigh!! E1b1a(E3a) sub-saharan Hg in the world before intercontinental travel ie prior to 1500CE, Note this is E3a ie “sub-saharan”. Indigenous North Africans extend even further. See E3a is in Persia, Oman and Yemen. For the illiterate. The pattern is consistent with demic diffuse. Any questions?
That is why sub-saharan lineages are found in the Arabian Peninsula all the way into Persia and even Pakistan (see Ayoub et al study). There were two independent waves(E3's) from Africa extending as far as Pakistan.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
There were probably many black Persians. Their skin tone were probably consistent with Sudanese. Why?. . . . the illerate will ask. For the geographycally challenged. Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Persia and southern India all have black skinned people, all are in the same latitude. Why wouldn't Iran have predominantly (naturally)black skinned people.
It is only in contemporary times, with intercontinental travel, are humans living outside their "natural" UV Habitat.
Looks like light skinned Iranians are NOT indeginous to Iran. LOL!
These MFers can't win!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Lioness?! show me that picture again of the curl haired pale Iranians. LOL!
Squatters!!!!!
I have to agree with Mike. Looks like, as in many other places the black skinned people were "wiped out" literally and figuratively.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
I am a Persian and have curly hair and face profile just like those images in Persepolis. I am white though. I don’t know how to include my own photo so others can see. Please help.
Anyways, our curl hair are totally different than the African frizy hair. No matter how hard the blacks try to straighten their frizzy hair, it won’t look anywhere near the Persian Curl. Besides, faces in Persepolis, just like mine, has no resemblance to the blacks.
Claiming that Persians were black is nothing but ridiculous.
Look at the Shahpoor statue. This is from Sassanid period. Pay attention to the curls. No friz.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
By the way, Darius claimed to come from a long line of Aryans:
Note that Aryan is synonymous with white ever since the history remembers. Unless you prove to me ‘Aryan’ means black, LOL, African origin of Persian Empire is nothing but a loony claim. Good luck.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^Aryan means noble.
It is not a reference to tribe or colour.
Your other lies will be outed shortly.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
What?! another imposter in the Kingdom. Don't even know the meaning of his own "Aryan" "race". Damn!!! these MFers are stupid.
@Lion. It is not "lies" it is ignorance. These people truely(sincerely) believe they are indigenous to these lands.
Can anyone say . . .delusional?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: I am a Persian and have curly hair and face profile just like those images in Persepolis. I am white though. I don’t know how to include my own photo so others can see. Please help.
arman - You are NOT a Persian, except in your deluded dreams. What you ARE is an Albino or a Turk Mulatto - depending on the amount of melanin in your lying skin.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The colossal statue of Shapur I is standing in the Shapur cave which is located in the south of Iran and about 6 km off the ancient city of Bishapur. With a height of about 6.70 m and a shoulder width of more than 2 m, it’s one of the most impressive sculpture from the sasanian period.
The monumental statue is chiseled of a stalagmite grown on the spot. It’s standing about 35 m from the cave entrance, on the fourth of a total five terraces which are in the sector A of the cave. The head with the stepped battlements crown and the body of the sculpture are now in good condition while large parts of the arms and legs are missing. After its fall caused very probably by a strong earthquake between fifteenth and nineteenth century, the sculpture was raised in the middle of the twentieth century on two concrete pillars which are now standing near the original feet of the statue.
For the ignorant - the statue was re-built and re-worked. The face was obviously re-worked by those lying Sand Niggers in Iran, because it bears NO resemblance to an AUTHENTIC cliff sculpture of Shapur I.
That is IF the statue was REALLY made in the Sassanian period. Kings did NOT build statues IN caves. What king would want his statue in a dank dirty CAVE????
That makes no sense. But what DOES make sense, is Albinos and Sand Niggers Lying, that DOES make sense.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
^ That's why I don't rely only of pics. These lying bastards always use pictures as a proof of squatters rights.
Many times those pictures are fake. And the ignorants ones don't know they are fake.
Researching Arthur Evans and the Crete/Mycean civilization was an eye opener to me. Most of those pieces of art are fake or redone. Yet Europeans pay $mils every year to see fake art that depicts them. Talk about wack!!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
seriously, this looks like an African to you?
.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
After 1.5yrs you still don’t get it. Do you? Check out the Mechta-Afalou thread. Are you retarded or just playing games.
The genetic history of sub-saharans extend into Pakistan. The genetic history of Supra-saharans extend even further and in larger frequency.
I have never been to Africa but from what little I have seen, this pic does not fit into the stereo typical mold of sub-saharan but definitely supra-saharan. His nose conforms to both Sub-saharan and super-saharan. His skin tone most likely is black based upon the period and latitude. So if I was to take an intelligent(informed) guess I would say YES! he is an African. A super-saharan. And the only reason being his hair is curly. ie not straight. He may be a beja type African.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Oh! I get it now. My bad. you are saying the Beja-type is not African. Gatch Yah! wink! wink!
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: After 1.5yrs you still don’t get it. Do you? Check out the Mechta-Afalou thread. Are you retarded or just playing games.
The genetic history of sub-saharans extend into Pakistan. The genetic history of Supra-saharans extend even further and in larger frequency.
I have never been to Africa but from what little I have seen, this pic does not fit into the stereo typical mold of sub-saharan but definitely supra-saharan. His nose conforms to both Sub-saharan and super-saharan. His skin tone most likely is black based upon the period. So if I was to take an intelligent(informed) guess I would say YES! he is an African. A super-saharan. And the only reason being his hair is curly. ie not straight. He may be a beja type African.
People make this mistake because they have been conditioned to belive that anyone in ancient history with a beard is non-Black. But the fact is that Egyptians wore fake beards --but they preferred to be beardless.
Asian Blacks for some reason prefer to wear beards.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim!
Ummm...We don't know where the heck they came from because the sources and origins of the peoples haven't been attached. Actually some of them do look like they have come from Africa recently, too, but for the most part many have a Dravidian or "Austronesian" -in my opinion. However, commenting on photographs on a blog replete with comments from non-scholars is not called "scholarship", maybe "eyeball anthropology" but not scholarship.
And I thank you for your attention to this matter.
Elamite OF SUSA
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: I am a Persian and have curly hair and face profile just like those images in Persepolis. I am white though. I don’t know how to include my own photo so others can see. Please help.
Anyways, our curl hair are totally different than the African frizy hair. No matter how hard the blacks try to straighten their frizzy hair, it won’t look anywhere near the Persian Curl. Besides, faces in Persepolis, just like mine, has no resemblance to the blacks.
Claiming that Persians were black is nothing but ridiculous.
Look at the Shahpoor statue. This is from Sassanid period. Pay attention to the curls. No friz.
If this is the kind of Persian you are talking about I'm sure most people of African descent are not interested in seeing your photo. Because 99% of the world's people that fair-skinned people with wavy hair are mainly of Eurasiatic origgin. If you are saying that you look like the below and that you look more like them than a modern Ethiopian or Beja person does than I'd definitely like to see that.
Scan your photo and go to photobucket or tinypic.com and follow instructions.
Persians were of different origins - just like modern Arabians and Indians. Why should ancient Iranians be different. The skeletons have already shown that European affiliated peoples (mainly Scythians) entered at a late period and history also tells us that. Be glad to be of the mix those you are if you are from Iran. lol!
Persian soldier BEFORE before the Scythian influenced Parthians and Sassanids
By the way - Persians aren't the only ones with curly hair.
Eritrean young man with hennaed hair
Samburu of East Africa
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: That's why I don't rely only of pics. These lying bastards always use pictures as a proof of squatters rights.
Many times those pictures are fake. And the ignorants ones don't know they are fake.
Researching Arthur Evans and the Crete/Mycean civilization was an eye opener to me. Most of those pieces of art are fake or redone. Yet Europeans pay $mils every year to see fake art that depicts them. Talk about wack!!
xyyman "AUTHENTIC" artifacts are very important, but they MUST be taken in context, and with a good understanding of history.
As an example:
It doesn't matter what lie a White man tells you about Mycenaeans, if you have seen this obvious Black Skull.
And arman wouldn't have made such a fool of himself if he had taken the trouble to read Iranian history. Which explains quite succinctly who the White people were, and when they got there.
Likewise the Islamist idiots who quote racist Hadiths supposedly written by Persians. As I have shown many times, those people were not Persians at all, they were Turks. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Oxus treasure
The Oxus treasure consists of about 170 objects, dating mainly from the fifth and fourth centuries B.C. The Treasure seems to have been gathered together over a long period, perhaps in a temple. It includes vessels, a gold scabbard, model chariots and figures, armlets, seals, finger-rings, miscellaneous personal objects, dedicatory plaques and coins It was found on the banks of the River Oxus, probably at the site of Takht-i Kuwad, a ferry station on the north bank of the river.
In May 1880 Captain F.C. Burton, a British political officer in Afghanistan, rescued a group of merchants who had been captured by bandits while travelling between Kabul and Peshawar. They were carrying with them this rich collection of gold and silver objects. Burton bought from them a gold armlet, now in the Victoria and Albert Museum. Other pieces from the Treasure subsequently emerged in the bazaars of Rawalpindi. Some of those now in The British Museum were acquired by Major-General Sir Alexander Cunningham (1814-93), Director General of the Archaeological Survey of India, and others were obtained by Sir Augustus Wollaston Franks, who was both a curator in the Museum and a generous benefactor. In due course Franks bought Cunningham's share of the treasure, and eventually the entire Oxus treasure was bequeathed by him to The British Museum
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
^^Mike this is a great find. I have written on Central Asian history for 20 years. I never saw these before now. Thanks
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Got to give it to you Mike. You are research acumen is up there with Sage, Dana and the young upcoming cat Zarahan. and others.
Now!! If you give up that Albino thing we would be on the same page. Fist Thump! It is all good.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^Mike this is a great find. I have written on Central Asian history for 20 years. I never saw these before now. Thanks
Clyde, as you well know, part of the reason that the White man has been so successful in his false and distorted history, is because he "CONTROLS" the artifacts! And WILL modify them, as he sees fit.
^Here is more of the Oxus.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Got to give it to you Mike. You are research acumen is up there with Sage, Dana and the young upcoming cat Zarahan. and others.
Now!! If you give up that Albino thing we would be on the same page. Fist Thump! It is all good.
xyyman - It took you four years to be convinced that the original Europeans were Black. I am hopeful that in another four years, you will come to understand that the Central Asian invaders of Europe were indeed Albinos.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
This is how I visualize the morphology of AMH leaving Africa. Very similar.
Hey Lioness! Is he African or "negro"? This what I believe the early Persians looked like.
Samburu of East Africa
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
@ big brother Mike -
Not the time nor place but you know I agree with most of the stuff you post. I always accepted the facts that Black were Europe pre-history. But Albino Theory. . .That said, civilization was brought to Europe by ancient Saharans. Probably with E1b1b(1) lineage with some E1b1a mixed in. Genetics is proving that Sergi and company were right all along. Even the crooked Evans conceded that Saharans brought civilization to Europe. The labels they used we can ignore for now.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: After 1.5yrs you still don’t get it. Do you? Check out the Mechta-Afalou thread. Are you retarded or just playing games.
A mixture between the two.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^Mike this is a great find. I have written on Central Asian history for 20 years. I never saw these before now. Thanks
Clyde, as you well know, part of the reason that the White man has been so successful in his false and distorted history, is because he "CONTROLS" the artifacts! And WILL modify them, as he sees fit.
^Here is more of the Oxus.
,
^^^^would anybody on their right mind think these are black people? are you sick in the head
,
^^^^^ would anybody on their right mind think these are black people? part 2
These guys with their big thick curls and boney noses. Definately not an afro YOU PEOPLE are truly in the crack pipe
^^^^this guy has those big scale curls, plus he's not pale either.
Now go scambling back into Africa looking for some weird black people with curly hair. What about Iran where the civilization started? Oh no don't look there. Were there some Africans in Persia? Yes just like in modern day Norway. There are some Africans there.
Oh wait a minute, I forgot the original Norwegians were black.
You know. this comes up so much I've created this handy form you can use:
You know what the problem with original people is? Whatever color they might have been, whether it's candy can swirl or pistachio is that they are obsolete. They are over and done with. Their cities are in ruins. They lost and have been superceded.
the lioness, Black woman of the 22nd Century
.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
help me out here, sombody gave me this wonderful statue. I was thinking it might be Persian what do you think?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
That time of the month. I think I touched a nerve, and I can do more than that for you. You know. You wouldn’t know if you are cumming or going. He! He! He! “Black woman of the 22nd century”. Give me a call, but, “no bite marks no hicky. . . .”
That's a good line though, "black people in Norway"
"What about Iran where the civilization started?" Agreed some of the pieces . . .well! I dunno?!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Got to give it to you Mike. You are research acumen is up there with Sage, Dana and the young upcoming cat Zarahan. and others.
Now!! If you give up that Albino thing we would be on the same page. Fist Thump! It is all good.
I second that.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Posted by Who's Your Daddy? (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
help me out here, sombody gave me this wonderful statue. I was thinking it might be Persian what do you think?
I think it's just some horny opportunist from medieval times. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
help me out here, sombody gave me this wonderful statue. I was thinking it might be Persian what do you think?
Lioness, I know that you are a degenerate fool, but even for you, what's the point?
Interestingly though, it's probably the best piece of west African art that I have seen (Yoruba I think). It is sans all of the effect nonsense typical of African art, and goes to the dignity of the individual. I wonder if it is old or modern.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [qb]
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] ^
,
^^^^would anybody on their right mind think these are black people? are you sick in the head
,
^^^^^ would anybody on their right mind think these are black people? part 2
These guys with their big thick curls and boney noses. Definately not an afro YOU PEOPLE are truly in the crack pipe
^^^^this guy has those big scale curls, plus he's not pale either.
Now go scambling back into Africa looking for some weird black people with curly hair. What about Iran where the civilization started? Oh no don't look there. Were there some Africans in Persia? Yes just like in modern day Norway. There are some Africans there.
Oh wait a minute, I forgot the original Norwegians were black.
You know. this comes up so much I've created this handy form you can use:
You know what the problem with original people is? Whatever color they might have been, whether it's candy can swirl or pistachio is that they are obsolete. They are over and done with. Their cities are in ruins. They lost and have been superceded.
the lioness, Black woman of the 22nd Century
.
Earth to Negress! Calling on the Earth to Negress from another planet please come back to the planet or at least - Out of Sweden.
WHEN extremely black people absorb non-black straight haired people they often get curly hair. Guess you didn't you have as mulattos in the family as i thought!
Or you would have known what I do. Those Scythian-related people Mike and Dr. Winters keep posting are onot black in my mind, it is equally obvious they could have some black in them.
The people of Darius however were not Scythians.
Is this the thick curly hair you are talking about?
Whether this was almost an "afro" or not is not important. It might as well be one.
Curly hair on a near black man does not a white man make - FAKE!
Yes - Someone definitely needs to stop smoking.
Are you sure you were conceived in Sweden?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: By the way, Darius claimed to come from a long line of Aryans:
Note that Aryan is synonymous with white ever since the history remembers. Unless you prove to me ‘Aryan’ means black, LOL, African origin of Persian Empire is nothing but a loony claim. Good luck.
Arman, Arash, Siev, Kay kavus, Kawa or Kavi(Cepheus), Zohak or Dahhak son of Mirdas or Walid the Arabian and Fairuz/Faras were originally ancient ancestral names for the Arabians or Afro-semitic people that settled Syro-Anatolia, Iran known as the Dahae/Daoi or Meds/Medes in the early 2nd millenium BC.
The name was taken over by the Scythians according to Herodotus from the Meds who remained black until the historical period.
Dahhak or Zohhak is otherwise known as Hadad in Arabic tradition. In India they were known traditionally as the Meluhhas - speakers of Prakrit and originators of Sanskrit.
Scythians who fought the tripura building Dahae of Central Asia later transformed these indigenous legends and brought them southward into India distorting the allegory into fights against black Daasas by white "Aryans" (Scytho Haumovera).
Very similar to what happened to the original Hebrew historical tradition, and to how Arabs have been virtually written out of their history through depictions and distorted legends.
Interestingly scholars today suppose the Greeks confused the Midianites with the Medes. But they didn't. They were once the same people from Wadi Maadani in Arabia.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Beja men
Descendants of Meds/Medes
Beja man
Lyin_sse's white men
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
seriously, this looks like an African to you?
.
No not really, hey you're right. It looks stringy straight.
However, funny is how you disregarded the colored image I showed. Smh. Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
seriously, this looks like an African to you?
.
Yes. There is no single type of Black man.
,
Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
The Elam weren't negroes, stop fantasizing lamEs
you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
The Elam weren't negroes, stop fantasizing lamEs
you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
What do you mean Lioness? Why do you always talk in riddles? Say what you want to say clearly and directly. What about the Elamites?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Henry Rawlinson used the Book of Genesis to find the identity of the Mesopotamia. He made it clear that the original inhabitants of Babylonia were represented by the name Nimrod and were represented by the family of Ham: Kushites, Egyptians and etc. This name came from the popularity among these people of hunting the leopard (Nimri). And as noted in earlier post the Egyptian and Nubian rulers always associated leopard spots with royalty, just as Siva is associated with the feline. As a result, Rawlinson used an African language Galla, to decipher the cuneiform writing.
The Sumerians and Elamites came from Africa, like the founders of the Indus Valley civilization. This is why the Elamite and Sumerian languages are closely related to African and Dravidian languages.
The Kushites when they migrated from Middle Africa to Asia continued to call themselves Kushites. This is most evident in place names and the names of gods. The Kassites, chief rulers of Iran occupied the central part of the Zagros. The Kassite god was called Kashshu, which was also the name of the people. The K-S-H, name element is also found in India. For example Kishkinthai, was the name applied to an ancient Dravidian kingdom in South India. Also it should be remembered that the Kings of Sumer, were often referred to as the " Kings of Kush".
The major Kushite tribe in Central Asia was called Kushana. The Kushan of China were styled Ta Yueh-ti or "the Great Lunar Race". Along the Salt Swamp, there was a state called Ku-Shih of Tibet. The city of K-san, was situated in the direction of Kushan, which was located in the Western part of the Gansu Province of China.
The Elamites later conquered Sumer. They called this line of Kings,he "King of Kish'. This term has affinity to the term Kush,that was given to the Kerma dynasty, founded by the C-Group people of Kush. It is interesting to note that the Elamite language, is closely related to the African languages including Egyptian and the Dravidian languages of India.
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was ancient Elam. The Elamites called their country KHATAM or KHALTAM (Ka-taam). The capital of Khaltam which we call Susa, was called KHUZ (Ka-u-uz) by the Aryans, NIME (Ni-may) by the people of Sumer, and KUSHSHI (Cush-she) by the Elamites.In the Akkadian inscriptions the Elamites were called GIZ-BAM (the land of the bow). The ancient Chinese or Bak tribesmen which dominate China today called the Elamites KASHTI. Moreover, in the Bible the Book of Jeremiah (xlxx,35), we read "bow of Elam". It is interesting to note that both Khaltam-ti and Kashti as the name for Elam, agrees with Ta-Seti, the ancient name for Nubia located in the Meroitic Sudan.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
.
The area I am refering too is Iran, where the Medes lived.
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon. Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Elam
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was Elam. The Elamites like other Africans practiced the custom of matrilineal descent.
The history of Elam is usually divided into three periods the Kings of Awan, Kings of Simashki and the Sukkalmah period. For over 300 years the Elamite Kings of Awan ruled Elam, and much of Mesopotamia.Much of this period is unknown. During the 3rd Millennium B.C., the Elamites and Su people (a term used for mountain people in the Western Zagros) sacked Ur. The King of the Dynasty of Simaskhi, led to Elamite rule in Sumer. The first king of the Simashki Dynasty was Girnamme.
In Sumer, the Elamites contributed nuch to Sumerian civilization. The Elamite Kings of Sumer were called the Kings of Kish.
After a Sumerian King of Kish pushed the Elamites out of Mesopotamia, Elam went into a period of chaos until around 2500 B.C., when King Peli became the ruler of Elam. After Peli, there were six other Elamite Kings until Elam was conquered by Sargon of Akkad.
Before the Sukkalmah period (c.1900-1500 B.C.) much of what we know about Elam comes from the Akkadian sources. This period is called the Sukkalmah period, because the rulers of Elam were called Sukkalmah ‘grand regent”. The Elamite title for king ws sunkir.
During the Sukkahmah Dynasty there was a tripartite system of rule. The Susa text indicate that there was a senior ruler called sukkalmah ‘grand regent’ of Elam and Shimashki, he was usually the brother of the sukkahmah, and a junior co-regent, entitled sukkal of Susa. This nephew was usually from the maternal side of the King’s family. Thus the sukkal of Susa was often called the ruhusak ‘sister’s son’
The first rulers of the Sukkamah period was Eabarat (=Eparti). He was followed by the ruhusak Addahushu, the “sukkal and magustrate of the people of Susa”. He is known mostly for his building of several temples and the erection of his “justic stele” outlining the laws of Elam .
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains.
Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
.
But Clyde, why couldn't they have just been dark-skinned and kinky-haired, but not from what is called "Africa"? This is a problem when it's assumed that anyone dark-skinned and kinky-haired is from the area that is called "Africa". Do you agree?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^awlaadberry - Are you suggesting that they were Arabians as an alternative?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
.
But Clyde, why couldn't they have just been dark-skinned and kinky-haired, but not from what is called "Africa"? This is a problem when it's assumed that anyone dark-skinned and kinky-haired is from the area that is called "Africa". Do you agree?
You have not read the post. If you had read the post you would see that the Classical writers plus the Bible claim that the Elamites were Kushites and that they came from Africa.
quote:
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon.Susa was a major Elamite city.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Kush and the Kushites came from Africa, it is appropriate to call them African.
.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
Clyde,
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Clyde,
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
LOL. The fact the Elamites came from Africa is also documented.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Memnon was a Kushite.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: Clyde,
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
There may have been Dravidian/Veddoid types in Iran long ago. But your images are clearly Black Africans would have arrived in Iran as a result of East African slave trade. That is documented.
LOL. The fact the Elamites came from Africa is also documented.
Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Memnon was a Kushite.
Lol right back at you. Strabo was basing his nonsense on the habit of some early Greek writers to consufe Kassite with Kushite. In fact for the longest time for many Greeks Aethiopia was a mythical place.
Again you are incorrect, and you are confusing the mythical Aethiopia with the historical one. They were two different entities. Please study the Greek mythical genealogy of Memnon and how he is portrayed --> originally <---, not as a 'black' person but as a light skinned Caucasian. His parents weren't Africans, he was the son of the Greek Goddess Eos and the ---> Trojan <--- king Tithonus, unless people are now going to start dubiously telling us incorrectly that Trojans were 'black skinned Africans' too when they are never portrayed as such. You ought to realize that the ORIGINAL mythical Ethiopia was not in sub-saharan Africa. The original story has it in the Near East, another in the Caucasus mountains and later accounts place it in N. Africa. Greeks never claimed the Colchis was a 'black culture'. The FIRST 'source' to make such a claim was the Egyptian Manetho during Hellenstic times, it was ---> HE <--- who attributes this to Herodotus. Early Herodotus writings don't make any such claims about the Colchis region and there isn't any physical evidence from the Caucasus mountains to support any such conquests. Sesotris' conquest of Colchis is based upon Manetho's claims only.
In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
These Iranian women find your theories peculiarly funny.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
Here is the linguitic evidence that relate the Elamites to African people. These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL chief kal,kala keletigi gasa(n) field gan ga kalan eye(l) igi akki eye(2) ini,en nya kan arrow kak kala kakam granary kur k'urk'ur kutir road sila sila caalai father pap pa appan lord manus mansa mannan male mu moko maakkal to recite sid siti to buy sa sa cel grain se se seed gen ge 'to sprout'
═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ English Dravidian Manding top, summit kona kun one ondu do two pattu ta four naal nani person uki moko fish(filet) bale bake skin uri wuru,guru house lon lu head kuku ku tongue na ne blacksmith inumu numu foot karal koro liver karal kura mud burada boro, buru give idu di stone kaly kulu cloud kaar ka, kaba fire ti ta mountain kunru kuru elder,grandfather maama maamaa ═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING ak and ka turna know, awaken kuna, fori sahri death sa murta to erect kura mar from a place ma li give di tela to go tara Nap God Nala tus habitation du husu illomened dyugu kuta lance keru lan,lani silver dala ki one killi ta place ta kik sky,heaven ka sari sculpter se ufat steel tuufa tela to go ta khali great ka dau help deema ko king,lord ka na say na para to watch fereke
.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by melchior7: In any case, the best way for you to lend credit to your theory is to demonstrate solid genetic and linguistic parallels between Iran and Ethiopia, not hearsay from clueless classical writers.
Here is the linguitic evidence that relate the Elamites to African people. These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL chief kal,kala keletigi gasa(n) field gan ga kalan eye(l) igi akki eye(2) ini,en nya kan arrow kak kala kakam granary kur k'urk'ur kutir road sila sila caalai father pap pa appan lord manus mansa mannan male mu moko maakkal to recite sid siti to buy sa sa cel grain se se seed gen ge 'to sprout'
═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ English Dravidian Manding top, summit kona kun one ondu do two pattu ta four naal nani person uki moko fish(filet) bale bake skin uri wuru,guru house lon lu head kuku ku tongue na ne blacksmith inumu numu foot karal koro liver karal kura mud burada boro, buru give idu di stone kaly kulu cloud kaar ka, kaba fire ti ta mountain kunru kuru elder,grandfather maama maamaa ═════════════════════════λ 2;═════════════════════════ 552;═════════════ ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING ak and ka turna know, awaken kuna, fori sahri death sa murta to erect kura mar from a place ma li give di tela to go tara Nap God Nala tus habitation du husu illomened dyugu kuta lance keru lan,lani silver dala ki one killi ta place ta kik sky,heaven ka sari sculpter se ufat steel tuufa tela to go ta khali great ka dau help deema ko king,lord ka na say na para to watch fereke
.
Yes, I am familiar with your comparison between Manding and Dravidian, and the theory with Dravidian ultimately originating out of the Sahara which I believe is not without merit. However this would have occurred a few thousand years before the tale of mythical Memnon. Besides if you buy into the claim that Memnon was literally Ethiopian, shouldn't you be looking for parallels with Cushitic or Omotic languages instead?
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
Which area are you referring to Clyde?
.
The area I am refering too is Iran, where the Medes lived.
The ancients were sure the Kushites had founded the Elamite civilization. According to Strabo, the Roman geographer the first Elamite colony of Susa, was founded by Tithonus, a King of Kush, and father of Memnon. Strabo in Book 15,chapter 3,728, wrote that "In fact, it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and that his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians; and Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Elam
The most important Kushite colony in Iran was Elam. The Elamites like other Africans practiced the custom of matrilineal descent.
The history of Elam is usually divided into three periods the Kings of Awan, Kings of Simashki and the Sukkalmah period. For over 300 years the Elamite Kings of Awan ruled Elam, and much of Mesopotamia.Much of this period is unknown. During the 3rd Millennium B.C., the Elamites and Su people (a term used for mountain people in the Western Zagros) sacked Ur. The King of the Dynasty of Simaskhi, led to Elamite rule in Sumer. The first king of the Simashki Dynasty was Girnamme.
In Sumer, the Elamites contributed nuch to Sumerian civilization. The Elamite Kings of Sumer were called the Kings of Kish.
After a Sumerian King of Kish pushed the Elamites out of Mesopotamia, Elam went into a period of chaos until around 2500 B.C., when King Peli became the ruler of Elam. After Peli, there were six other Elamite Kings until Elam was conquered by Sargon of Akkad.
Before the Sukkalmah period (c.1900-1500 B.C.) much of what we know about Elam comes from the Akkadian sources. This period is called the Sukkalmah period, because the rulers of Elam were called Sukkalmah ‘grand regent”. The Elamite title for king ws sunkir.
During the Sukkahmah Dynasty there was a tripartite system of rule. The Susa text indicate that there was a senior ruler called sukkalmah ‘grand regent’ of Elam and Shimashki, he was usually the brother of the sukkahmah, and a junior co-regent, entitled sukkal of Susa. This nephew was usually from the maternal side of the King’s family. Thus the sukkal of Susa was often called the ruhusak ‘sister’s son’
The first rulers of the Sukkamah period was Eabarat (=Eparti). He was followed by the ruhusak Addahushu, the “sukkal and magustrate of the people of Susa”. He is known mostly for his building of several temples and the erection of his “justic stele” outlining the laws of Elam .
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains.
Mende people are one of the purest west african. what a complete bullshit.
If its bull--why don't you present counter evidence disputng these linguistic facts?
LOL.You are just like the Euronuts instead of providing counter evidence you make a general comment without foundation.
You are an ignorant fool. A color struck troll that desires to be "white"/European and everytime you look in the mirror you hate yourself .
.
Posted by Altug (Member # 19469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Captain00: Trying to say we are Turks? LOL. Turks came from Mongolia and Siberia they invaded Central Asia and then Iran and Turkey. Their languages are under the mongoloid family branch. Most of the Turks in West Asia are Turkified natives. Even the Cenral Asian Turks are only partialy mongoloid, just look at Turkmenistan.
Why don't all the Iranian speaking people speak a Turkic language? why only a few who were Turkified and call themselves Turks. In Iran, Persian is only one of the Iranian languages, their is Kurdish,Gilak,Mazdarani,Talysh,Gorani,Lori,Balochi. For some reason why did all these groups keep their language and identity from the ancient times?
Also those pictures are of Qajars, the Qajars were Turkic family, but they were mostly Turkified Azaris, who were speaking a Iranian langauge like all the other groups. Even the name Azari is persian in origin.
thare are several mistakes on way you thinking. first of all, according to history of humankind there were lots of migrations which cause relationships and displacements. when a guest nation forces to the home nation to go some where it is obvious the guest will use the old name of the land or rename the land. so you should be aware on that the name of the location or land may not be the name of the nation itself.as an example azerbaycan is the name of the land so now we call them azeri but this gives no clue about what bthe real situation was. second, if any nation change the language by living together with the others means the home one will also have a new genetics which means they are not the old one anymore. people all around the world who are speaking in a turic languages are turk by language, culture and ofcourse in genetics. however there is no nation exist like purely turks and the reason is as a cultural turks have never been racist and unlikely the armenian sayings turks never destroy a foreign nation. after all of them i can easily say that culture always strong than the genetics...
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: If its bull--why don't you present counter evidence disputng these linguistic facts?
LOL.You are just like the Euronuts instead of providing counter evidence you make a general comment without foundation.
You are an ignorant fool. A color struck troll that desires to be "white"/European and everytime you look in the mirror you hate yourself .
.
You are THE one who makes suspected claims. You are the one who must convince us. The problem is that you Afroyanks never show any scientific evidences. its clear, its seems like you HATE SCIENCE.
I have absolutely no desire to be white/european. im absolutely proud [unlike you] of my ancestors who contributed to the Egyptian civilization, to the nubian civilization , and to the moorish empire. [/QB]
LOL. You have been on this site and fail to see the Egyptians came from Nubia.
If you deny your negro origin you are not related to the Egyptians, Nubia was the homeland of the negro. It was from here that the Egyptians arose.
To deny this reality proves you hate the negro and must want to be white.
.
.
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
So I guess shahansha aryamehr and his family who all have curly hair are all black? Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
I feel so sad for the Persian-wanna be blacks.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
The Elam weren't negroes, stop fantasizing lamEs
you think all white people take credit for building the Empire State building? The average white person did not build the empire state building. The average white person is eating cheetos and watching football games while texting their friend on what beer to get at the 7 Eleven. Likwise your ass didn't build the pyramids, it was some people 4000 years ago and they are as dead as wood. Even people that have direct lineage to the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids. They're eating dates and picking their feet right now. stop it already
You are basing this on what, your imagination? You foolish people want to imagine you know the truth of history with out the slightest bit of research. It boggles my mind how absolutly uninformed and willfully stupid some of you are.
There are still blacks in Iran today and NO they are not the result of slavery as there is no proof of that. You hit middle Iran people get black and get darker the further south you go. And they look completely unmixed in the Islands in the south
If you watch a movie called "The Ballot Box" this will give you a good idea of the different peoples of present day Iran. They head south from Tehran in this film. As they get further south you start to see the color go from white, to tan to black and then they hit the Islands in the Gulf and you will think you are in Nigeria.
As for what the "average white person is doing" what does that have to do with anything? If you are black (which I doubt) your thinking is the result of you having a slave culture. You people do not respect your forefathers and what they did for you to be here. In Africa your forefathers are not forgotten and they never should be. European's even today hold up their forefathers as they talk about with pride Rome, Greece and they exemplify their heros. As should those of the African diaspora. Our forefathers did great things, and know nothings like yourself could never negate that fact.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ There is a difference between saying there were black aboriginal people in places like Elam and Mesopotamia. It is another matter to claim "The Persians were black" and spam a bunch of images and bogus afrocentric garbage.
The blacks in Elam and Persia are well known and well documented, however the Persians(Achemenids) and many of the tribes the conquerd were NOT Black from the literature and depictions
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^^ There is a difference between saying there were black aboriginal people in places like Elam and Mesopotamia. It is another matter to claim "The Persians were black" and spam a bunch of images and bogus afrocentric garbage.
The blacks in Elam and Persia are well known and well documented, however the Persians(Achemenids) and many of the tribes the conquerd were NOT Black from the literature and depictions
From the time of the early Greek literary sources until the Hellenistic period Ethiopia was idealized by the Greeks, who considered the Ethiopians to be a semi-mythological people. Memnon, the ruler of the Homeric Ethiopians, they identified with the Great Persian King (cf. Georges, pp. 48f., 68f., 267 n. 1) and even at a time when the Greeks had come to know the Persians a little better, they continued to link the two Eastern peoples: e.g., for Herodotus Achaemenid Susa remained the Memno‚neion a‚sty (5.54, 2).
According to Herodotus the Ethiopians, clad in leopard or lion skins, wearing long bows and painted with vermilion and chalk provided one of the most colorful, as well as warlike, contingents in the army with which Xerxes invaded Greece in 480-79 B.C. (Herodotus, 7.69, 2; cf. also Head, p. 53. For a description of Kushites on Greek pottery cf. Morkot, pp. 328-30). A delegation from the Ethiopians is included in the lists of Arrian (7.15, 4-5) and Diodorus (17.113, 1-2) amongst those which awaited Alexander on his return to Babylon in the spring of 323 B.C.
Bibliography (for cited references not given in detail, see "Short References"):
F. de Blois, "The 'Four Great Kingdoms' in the Manichaean Kephalaia," in P.O. Scholz, ed., Orbis Aethiopicus: Studia in honorem Stanislaus Chojnacki natali septuagesimo quinto dicata, septuagesimo septimo oblata, Albstadt, Germay, 1992, pp. 221-30 (esp. pp. 227-29 on the Ethiopians in Manichean literature).
C. E. Bosworth, "Iran and the Arabs before Islam," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 593-612.
R.N. Frye, "The political history of Iran under the Sasanians," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 116-80.
P. Georges, Barbarian Asia and the Greek Experience: From the Archaic Period to the Age of Xenophon, Baltimore and London, 1994.
D. Head, The Achaemenid Persian Army, Stockport, England, 1992.
J. Leroy, "Les 'Éthiopiens' de Perse‚polis," Annales d'Éthiopie 5, 1963, pp. 293-95.
R. Morkot, "Nubia and Achaemenid Persia: Sources and Problems," in H. Sancisi-Weerdenburg and A. Kuhrt, eds., Achaemenid History VI. Asia Minor and Egypt: Old Cultures in a New Empire, Leiden, 1991, pp. 321-36.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Here is how the Greeks depicted Various Achemenid Kings.
An African and a Persian..
but you can do like Mike and claim they are fake and "Da Evil" white man be aletering them...
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: [From the time of the early Greek literary sources until the Hellenistic period Ethiopia was idealized by the Greeks, who considered the Ethiopians to be a semi-mythological people. Memnon, the ruler of the Homeric Ethiopians, they identified with the Great Persian King (cf. Georges, pp. 48f., 68f., 267 n. 1) and even at a time when the Greeks had come to know the Persians a little better, they continued to link the two Eastern peoples: e.g., for Herodotus Achaemenid Susa remained the Memno‚neion a‚sty (5.54, 2).
According to Herodotus the Ethiopians, clad in leopard or lion skins, wearing long bows and painted with vermilion and chalk provided one of the most colorful, as well as warlike, contingents in the army with which Xerxes invaded Greece in 480-79 B.C. (Herodotus, 7.69, 2; cf. also Head, p. 53. For a description of Kushites on Greek pottery cf. Morkot, pp. 328-30). A delegation from the Ethiopians is included in the lists of Arrian (7.15, 4-5) and Diodorus (17.113, 1-2) amongst those which awaited Alexander on his return to Babylon in the spring of 323 B.C.
Bibliography (for cited references not given in detail, see "Short References"):
F. de Blois, "The 'Four Great Kingdoms' in the Manichaean Kephalaia," in P.O. Scholz, ed., Orbis Aethiopicus: Studia in honorem Stanislaus Chojnacki natali septuagesimo quinto dicata, septuagesimo septimo oblata, Albstadt, Germay, 1992, pp. 221-30 (esp. pp. 227-29 on the Ethiopians in Manichean literature).
C. E. Bosworth, "Iran and the Arabs before Islam," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 593-612.
R.N. Frye, "The political history of Iran under the Sasanians," Camb. Hist. Iran III/1 (1983), pp. 116-80.
P. Georges, Barbarian Asia and the Greek Experience: From the Archaic Period to the Age of Xenophon, Baltimore and London, 1994.
D. Head, The Achaemenid Persian Army, Stockport, England, 1992.
J. Leroy, "Les 'Éthiopiens' de Perse‚polis," Annales d'Éthiopie 5, 1963, pp. 293-95.
R. Morkot, "Nubia and Achaemenid Persia: Sources and Problems," in H. Sancisi-Weerdenburg and A. Kuhrt, eds., Achaemenid History VI. Asia Minor and Egypt: Old Cultures in a New Empire, Leiden, 1991, pp. 321-36.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
This is a non Seqitur fallacy, If the Persians themselves depicted black skinned native of Elam as being the Spearmen in their armies then its obvious the Aechemnids had blacks in their army, however this one image does not prove the "Persians were black"..
I guess you have'nt learned from my previous beatdowns I gave you on this Subject..
BTW something for you to contemplate..
One is a Kushite the other is a Persian..
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: This is a non Seqitur fallacy, If the Persians themselves depicted black skinned native of Elam as being the Spearmen in their armies then its obvious the Aechemnids had blacks in their army, however this one image does not prove the "Persians were black"..
I guess you have'nt learned from my previous beatdowns I gave you on this Subject..
BTW something for you to contemplate..
One is a Kushite the other is a Persian..
beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed. Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) 1st Century A.D
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Do you understand how these statements of yours make you seem as if your ability to approach a subject in an intelligent/rational manner is deficient? Everything is context my man. As I said, at least half of Iran to this very day is still black or mulatto. So blacks have always been there since the very beginning, and your two pictures doesn’t prove otherwise. Nor does it disprove the fact that blacks played a major role in that society. Were they the kings and queens? I have no idea, haven’t really looked into that bit, and from the looks of it, outside of you going to flickr and google, you haven’t either. But from the writings of Diop and Rawlinson (the only two who I have read on the subject) they did play major roles; otherwise they wouldn’t have been depicted. When you want to prove your point, flickr pictures and pictures picked up off of Google isn’t going to help your case. Try doing real research, read these hard cover things with paper in between them called books. They are generally housed in these huge buildings, with few people inside them, called libraries. You should find your way to one and actually read a book, it never killed anyone. Your approach is as juvenile as the other people who pick pictures of Greeks and romans from Lower Egypt and say (see, these pictures dating to 200bc show that the ancient Egyptians were white) it’s rather sophomoric and shows that you/them have an inability to approach a subject in an intellectual manner. As I said before, it really is about context, without understanding the history as well as the peopling of these areas, your pictures mean nothing. The best way to put a subject to bed is with hard facts. Bring studies, and ancient accounts of people who were actually there. You can do that, and then no one can argue with you. Well, they could, but they would make themselves seem rather silly. You posting pictures of supposed people of that ancient kingdom, with your dim witted assessment of what they mean, will not win the argument. Also, when speaking of “Persians” as you quoted in one of your subsequent post, do you mean the Fars people? That is a totally different subject all together. Again, context, context, context. You don’t know enough about this subject to have a well-informed/intelligent conversations. You should convene, research (that’s more than a day of googling half assed information to prove your point), THEN come and argue your case.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ And what is the point of your picture spam, lyinass? One is a modern day black Arab from God knows where in or around Arabia and the Levant and the other is an Elamite of ancient Iran.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Another important thing to note is that the Greeks distinguished between Persian as nationality vs. Persian as ethnicity. By nationality anyone living under the Persian empire regardless of ethnicity was 'Persian' however the Greeks still distinguished a Persian 'race' or ethnicity. Interestingly enough ethnic Persians were described as being fairer in complexion than the Greeks themselves with descriptions of Persian white skin under their cloaks which contrasted to their own darker tanned skins.
As for the whole argument of curly hair. Here is a Scythian cloth from Pazyryk Russia between Kazakhstan and Mongolia depicting a horseman.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
It doesn’t make sense. Why Africans built a civilization so far from Africa? Why there are no traces of blacks in Iran today? The very very very very few few few few blacks in Bandar-Abaas were only brought in by British navy as slaves recently. Beside, have a look at the location of the Egyptian civilization. Although it is in the African continent, it is located in close vicinity of other civilizations founded by the white people. It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America (Or were they black too?). But that is not the case. I hope one day black come out of their inferiority complex and instead of claiming ownership for someone else work, they come up with their owns. I think you are making all African black look bad by these stupid claims.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Another important thing to note is that the Greeks distinguished between Persian as nationality vs. Persian as ethnicity. By nationality anyone living under the Persian empire regardless of ethnicity was 'Persian' however the Greeks still distinguished a Persian 'race' or ethnicity. Interestingly enough ethnic Persians were described as being fairer in complexion than the Greeks themselves with descriptions of Persian white skin under their cloaks which contrasted to their own darker tanned skins.
As for the whole argument of curly hair. Here is a Scythian cloth from Pazyryk Russia between Kazakhstan and Mongolia depicting a horseman.
Djehuti - Did you see my post yesterday deploring you current state of ignorance?
NO, the Greeks DID NOT describe the Persians as being lighter than them. That is an Albino lie perpetuated by ignorant White Ass worshiping Mongols
Under the title "White people" Antiquity and Middle Ages: Occasional physical description
Quote: "Xenophon describes the Ethiopians as Black, and the Persian troops as White, compared to the sun-tanned skin of Greek troops".
Of course - THAT IS A BLATANT LIE!
The Project Gutenberg Etext of Anabasis by Xenophon Translation by H. G. Dakyns
Xenophon the Athenian was born 431 B.C. He was a pupil of Socrates. He marched with the Spartans, and was exiled from Athens. Sparta gave him land and property in Scillus, where he lived for many years before having to move once more, to settle in Corinth. He died in 354 B.C. The Anabasis is his story of the march to Persia to aid Cyrus, who enlisted Greek help to try and take the throne from Artaxerxes, and the ensuing return of the Greeks, in which Xenophon played a leading role. This occurred between 401 B.C. and March 399 B.C.
Anabasis
IV
From Cerasus they continued the march, the same portion of the troops being conveyed by sea as before, and the rest marching by land. When they had reached the frontiers of the Mossynoecians they sent to him Timesitheus the Trapezuntine, who was the proxenos of the Mossynoecians, to inquire whether they were to pass through their territory as friends or foes.
[3] I.e. "chestnuts."
The Hellenes breakfasted and then started forward on their march, having first delivered the stronghold to their allies among the Mossynoecians. As for the other strongholds belonging to tribes allied with their foes, which they passed en route, the most accessible were either deserted by their inhabitants or gave in their adhesion 30 voluntarily. The following description will apply to the majority of them: the cities were on an average ten miles apart, some more, some less; but so elevated is the country and intersected by such deep clefts that if they chose to shout across to one another, their cries would be heard from one city to another. When, in the course of their march, they came upon a friendly population, these would entertain them with exhibitions of fatted children belonging to the wealthy classes, fed up on boiled chestnuts until they were as white as white can be, of skin plump and delicate, and very nearly as broad as they were long, with their backs variegated and their breasts tattooed with patterns of all sorts of flowers. They sought after the women in the Hellenic army, and would fain have laid with them openly in broad daylight, for that was their custom. The whole community, male and female alike, were fair-complexioned and white-skinned. It was agreed that this was the most barbaric and outlandish people that they had passed through on the whole expedition, and the furthest removed from the Hellenic customs, doing in a crowd precisely what other people would prefer to do in solitude, and when alone behaving exactly as others would behave in company, talking to themselves and laughing at their own expense, standing still and then again capering about, wherever they might chance to be, without rhyme or reason, as if their sole business were to show off to the rest of the world.
THE PROBLEM FOR WIKI!
Mossynoeci is a name that the Greeks of the Euxine Sea applied to the peoples of Pontus, the northern "ANATOLIAN" (Turkey) coast west of Trebizond. They were a thousand miles from Persia! Xenophon wasn't talking about Persians, he was talking about White SETTLERS IN ANATOLIA!
Writing soon after 430 BCE, Herodotus in Book 3 cites the Mossynoeci, along with the Moschoi, Tibareni, the Macrones and Mares as comprising the 19th satrapy established by Darius of Persia.
The Project Gutenberg Etext of Hellenica by Xenophon Translation by H. G. Dakyns
I.e. at Ephesus.
But, instead of marching straight into Caria, Agesilaus turned sharp off in the opposite direction towards Phrygia. Picking up various detachments of troops which met him on his march, he steadily advanced, laying cities prostrate before him, and by the unexpectedness of his attack reaping a golden harvest of spoil. As a rule the march was prosecuted safely; but not far from Dascylium his advanced guard of cavalry were pushing on towards a knoll to take a survery of the state of things in front B.C. 395. After this, at the first indication of spring, he collected the whole of his army at Ephesus. But the army needed training. With that object he proposed a series of prizes--prizes to the heavy infantry regiments, to be won by those who presented their men in the best condition; prizes for the cavalry regiments which could ride best; prizes for those divisions of peltasts and archers which proved most efficient in their respective duties. And now the gymnasiums were a sight to see, thronged as they were, one and all, with warriors stripping for exercise; or again, the hippodrome crowded with horses and riders performing their evolutions; or the javelin men and archers going through their peculiar drill. In fact, the whole city where he lay presented under his hands a spectacle not to be forgotten. The market-place literally teemed with horses, arms, and accoutrements of all sorts for sale. The bronze-worker, the carpenter, the smith, the leather-cutter, the painter and embosser, were all busily engaged in fabricating the implements of war; so that the city of Ephesus itself was fairly converted into a military workshop. It would have done a man's heart good to see those long lines of soldiers with Agesilaus at their head, as they stepped gaily be-garlanded from the gymnasiums to dedicate their wreaths to the goddess Artemis. Nor can I well conceive of elements more fraught with hope than were here combined. Here were reverence and piety towards Heaven; here practice in war and military training; here discipline with habitual obedience to authority. But contempt for one's enemy will infuse a kind of strength in battle. So the Spartan leader argued; and with a view to its production he ordered the quartermasters to put up the prisoners who had been captured by his foraging bands for auction, stripped naked; so that his Hellenic soldiery, as they looked at the white skins which had never been bared to sun and wind, the soft limbs unused to toil through constant riding in carriages, came to the conclusion that war with such adversaries would differ little from a fight with women. Dascylium (near modern day Ergili, Turkey)
BTW - who is the new idiot arman?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Another White lie perpetuated by White Ass loving Mongols is the so-called "The Alexander Mosaic".
It actually has nothing to do with Alexander, Greeks, or Persians. It's about Roman Emperor Trajan fighting Parthians, who were NOT Persians, even though they ruled Persia for a while.
quote:It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America
I had a look at the links. I didn't see any!
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Is this a lie too?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
So you find a sculpture that you think made your case whoopie fuking do!!..she in fact looked no different than some African from the horn, without going on a picture spam. where was the Kemetian land of the Gods located. Where was the 1st state what was it called. What is the significance of Nabta Platya. A group and C group culture why are they important. What language group did the ancient Kemetians belong to. What is a ws scepter where can you attest to it's earliest use.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Here are some of the pictures of the founders of Egyptian civilization, Narmer and kingscorpion. Look at all the three facial profiles and compare it to the david’s statute. Pay attention to their jaw position. Not a trace of black. Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: It doesn’t make sense. Why Africans built a civilization so far from Africa? Why there are no traces of blacks in Iran today? The very very very very few few few few blacks in Bandar-Abaas were only brought in by British navy as slaves recently. Beside, have a look at the location of the Egyptian civilization. Although it is in the African continent, it is located in close vicinity of other civilizations founded by the white people. It is well established fact that the “founders” of Egyptian civilizations were white and not black. If Africans were into building civilization, the whole Africa must be full of ancient mega monuments like those in south America (Or were they black too?). But that is not the case. I hope one day black come out of their inferiority complex and instead of claiming ownership for someone else work, they come up with their owns. I think you are making all African black look bad by these stupid claims.
no traces of blacks in iran today? You can't be serious? Middle Iran is black and Mulatto to this very day and southern iran is almost completely black. what do you people do, dream this stuff up and then spew what your imagination told you?
Get a film called "the ballot box". It is a Irani made film and it talks about the voting process in Iran. They start of in Tehran and work their way to the south. When they hit the cost they then take a boat to the islands controlled by Iran. When you watch this film you will see once they get to about the middle of Iran people become Black or Mulatto.
as for the rest of of your comment, its to silly to address. oh and Saba7 bi Khayr, you seem to have not risen from your sleep today
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
typeZeiss - I don't think that you really understand the situation:
You are arguing with a looney who thinks that the last statue is really a statue of king David of Israel!
By the way, can any of you geniuses explain to me why the language of the Persians, who were blacks according to you, is categorized as indo-European (or Indo-Aryan to be more specific, thus the Aryan race)? Don’t tell me that you believe that Persian language is an African sub-branch.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
I don’t think you understand the magnitude of you stupid claims.
Let me spell it for you. David statute portrays a typical Indo-European white facial profile (not Jewish as Divid himself). Michaelangelo based his statute, like his other works, on the white European physique. And this profile is very similar to the founders of the Egyptian civilization. Therefore the founder of Egyptian civilization were white.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
here is a typical black profile
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Arman I knew you would ignore the questions put to you and go on to irrelevant picture spam. where was the Kemetian land of the Gods located. Where was the 1st state what was it called. What is the significance of Nabta Platya. A group and C group culture why are they important. What language group did the ancient Kemetians belong to. What is a ws scepter where can you attest to it's earliest use. If you do not know then you know nothing of the origins of ancient Kemet,and if you are not some lazy time wasting troll you can use the above questions as a clue to search for answers..a simple Goole won't kill ya.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
quote:Therefore the founder of Egyptian civilization were white.
. .
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: By the way, can any of you geniuses explain to me why the language of the Persians, who were blacks according to you, is categorized as indo-European (or Indo-Aryan to be more specific, thus the Aryan race)? Don’t tell me that you believe that Persian language is an African sub-branch.
Aryan is an English language loanword derived from Sanskrit ārya ('Noble')
In colloquial modern English it is often used to signify the Nordic racial ideal promoted by the Nazis. As the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language states at the beginning of its definition, "Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.
arman - We have our share of dumb-ass trolls here, Cass and Lioness come to mind immediately, but they are not totally stupid - you are.
As a matter of fact, you seem to be totally Brain Dead! Rarely have I heard such stupidity out of one person. Do us all a favor, go away, join Stormfront. Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim!
And what about the report from Strabo, Diodoros and Heradotus that clearly state there was a clear "ethiopian" presence in Persia? Slavery can't explain that.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, the roman emperor, Hadrian had curly hair too. Then he must be black. By the way, none of you geniuses could answer my question regarding Persian language. Read my question again. I slow down so you, with limited IQ, can catch up: In short, what is the link between the Persian language and the African languages? None.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Okay, I'll play along. But first you have to prove that the statue is really of roman emperor Hadrian. So authenticate the statue (this is absolutely necessary since the statue is the basis of comparison), then get back to me.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: In short, what is the link between the Persian language and the African languages? None. [/QB]
This doesn't matter to the afronuts. They think the Indo-Europeans/Aryans were Negroes. They think everyone in classical antiquity was black and that white people are albinos who replaced the black aborigines of europe around 1,000 BC (although others maintain it was as late as medieval times).
That's why they are called afronuts. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
arman - You silly little twerp, us Blacks know that White statuary is totally bogus frauds, so simply asking you to authenticate one, will send you into an endless loop.
He,he,he. Here are some more for you.
Hadrian Statue from Troia IX ( BC 85 AD 450 ) , recent excavations , Canakkale Museum Turkey
Giant statue of Hadrian unearthed Parts of a huge, exquisitely carved statue of the Roman Emperor Hadrian have been found at an archaeological site in south-central Turkey. The statue dates to the early period of Hadrian's reign.
Statue of the Emperor Hadrian in the Hall of Imperial Statues Antalya Museum.
White marble statue of the Roman emperor Hadrian, from an excavation at Sagalassos in south-central Turkey.
This famous statue of Hadrian in Greek dress was revealed in 2008 to have been forged in the Victorian era by cobbling together a head of Hadrian and an unknown body. For years the statue had been used by historians as proof of Hadrian's love of Hellenic culture.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what I mean arman? They made these statues, probably during the late medieval, slapped a beard on it and called it Hadrian.
AND NOW FOR THE "COUP DE GRACE" ("blow of mercy") means a death blow intended to end the suffering.
This mosaic is another Albino lie. It is lyingly called the Alexander fighting the Persians mosaic. But it is actually Hadrian fighting the Parthians - note his Roman dress and the face on his breastplate, only Hadrian and Trajan wore such breastplates.
So my little Albino twerp - According to the people in the Roman city of Pompeii, circa 100 B.C, Hadrian was dark and had no beard - My, my, what are we to make of Albinos and their lies? Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Sooo Cass, am I still an "Afronut". He,he,he. Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Do you understand how these statements of yours make you seem as if your ability to approach a subject in an intelligent/rational manner is deficient? Everything is context my man.
Please show me one argument I made above that is not in context "my man", or is this rant your attempt to avoid the fact that you have no intelligent response to me.
quote:As I said, at least half of Iran to this very day is still black or mulatto. So blacks have always been there since the very beginning, and your two pictures doesn’t prove otherwise.
Strawman fallacy..
Show me where I said anywhere that Persia did not have native black peoples from the beginning. Provide direct quotes.
quote:Nor does it disprove the fact that blacks played a major role in that society. Were they the kings and queens? I have no idea,
Of course you have no idea because your interest with Persia only stems from some black washing Afrocentric agenda. Anything that does not mention blacks in Persia would not interest you.
quote:haven’t really looked into that bit, and from the looks of it, outside of you going to flickr and google, you haven’t either.
Actually I have, try not to put words in your opponents mouth, it makes you look ignorant.
I'm even willing to bet you have no clue where the Achaemenids kings came from, nor about the Sythians and Sassinids??
I mean we have coins of the Sassinids, Images of the Safavid Dynasty and What about what Sextus Empiricus descibing the Persians as whites and Al-Jahiz?? (Are they google and Flickr??) Whats even more devastating for you is that the Greek Images of the Achaemenids look no different than that of the Sassinids and Saffafids but were made before them.
quote:But from the writings of Diop and Rawlinson (the only two who I have read on the subject)
Obviously.
quote:they did play major roles; otherwise they wouldn’t have been depicted.
Where did I argue otherwise??
quote:When you want to prove your point, flickr pictures and pictures picked up off of Google isn’t going to help your case.
You do realize your sole source was from Googlebooks??
Further other contrary your ranting nothing I provided came "Google" other than an Image I found to refute Mike's image he found off google.
Al-Jahiz, Sextus empericus are not google..
quote:Try doing real research, read these hard cover things with paper in between them called books. They are generally housed in these huge buildings, with few people inside them, called libraries. You should find your way to one and actually read a book, it never killed anyone.
This coming from a man who does'nt even know sqat about the Achaemenids not anything about Persia that does not go along his Agenda.
You should take your own advice and read book outside your afrocentrist paradigm.
quote:Your approach is as juvenile as the other people who pick pictures of Greeks and romans from Lower Egypt and say (see, these pictures dating to 200bc show that the ancient Egyptians were white) it’s rather sophomoric and shows that you/them have an inability to approach a subject in an intellectual manner.
Actually, unfortuantely for you its not the same.
People who post images of Egyptians from the Greco Roman period(Im guessing you mean the Faiyum Portraits) fail to mention that 9 times of of ten the people depicted are Greeks and Romans or people who had their portraits made to look like a Greek or Roman. My images however are labeled and identified as Darius of Persia and a Persian soldier.
You understand the difference..?? Sadly for you the truth is devastating to your case, your best option is to claim they are fake like Clyde and Mike do. Bury your head in the sand.
quote:As I said before, it really is about context, without understanding the history as well as the peopling of these areas, your pictures mean nothing.[/b]
The only person who does'nt understand history, from my estimation here seems to be you.
[quote]The best way to put a subject to bed is with hard facts. Bring studies, and ancient accounts of people who were actually there. You can do that, and then no one can argue with you.
I did just that and I have you and your feeble attempts to "Argue", you seem to live in an alternate world.
quote:Well, they could, but they would make themselves seem rather silly. You posting pictures of supposed people of that ancient kingdom, with your dim witted assessment of what they mean, will not win the argument. Also, when speaking of “Persians” as you quoted in one of your subsequent post, do you mean the Fars people? That is a totally different subject all together. Again, context, context, context. You don’t know enough about this subject to have a well-informed/intelligent conversations. You should convene, research (that’s more than a day of googling half assed information to prove your point), THEN come and argue your case. [/QB]
After all this long winded Spam and fallacy arguments you have yet to provide evidence that refutes what I said.
Thanks for the waste of time.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Do you understand how these statements of yours make you seem as if your ability to approach a subject in an intelligent/rational manner is deficient? Everything is context my man.
Please show me one argument I made above that is not in context "my man", or is this rant your attempt to avoid the fact that you have no intelligent response to me.
quote:As I said, at least half of Iran to this very day is still black or mulatto. So blacks have always been there since the very beginning, and your two pictures doesn’t prove otherwise.
Strawman fallacy..
Show me where I said anywhere that Persia did not have native black peoples from the beginning. Provide direct quotes.
quote:Nor does it disprove the fact that blacks played a major role in that society. Were they the kings and queens? I have no idea,
Of course you have no idea because your interest with Persia only stems from some black washing Afrocentric agenda. Anything that does not mention blacks in Persia would not interest you.
quote:haven’t really looked into that bit, and from the looks of it, outside of you going to flickr and google, you haven’t either.
Actually I have, try not to put words in your opponents mouth, it makes you look ignorant.
I'm even willing to bet you have no clue where the Achaemenids kings came from, nor about the Sythians and Sassinids??
I mean we have coins of the Sassinids, Images of the Safavid Dynasty and What about what Sextus Empiricus descibing the Persians as whites and Al-Jahiz?? (Are they google and Flickr??) Whats even more devastating for you is that the Greek Images of the Achaemenids look no different than that of the Sassinids and Saffafids but were made before them.
quote:But from the writings of Diop and Rawlinson (the only two who I have read on the subject)
Obviously.
quote:they did play major roles; otherwise they wouldn’t have been depicted.
Where did I argue otherwise??
quote:When you want to prove your point, flickr pictures and pictures picked up off of Google isn’t going to help your case.
You do realize your sole source was from Googlebooks??
Further other contrary your ranting nothing I provided came "Google" other than an Image I found to refute Mike's image he found off google.
Al-Jahiz, Sextus empericus are not google..
quote:Try doing real research, read these hard cover things with paper in between them called books. They are generally housed in these huge buildings, with few people inside them, called libraries. You should find your way to one and actually read a book, it never killed anyone.
This coming from a man who does'nt even know sqat about the Achaemenids not anything about Persia that does not go along his Agenda.
You should take your own advice and read book outside your afrocentrist paradigm.
quote:Your approach is as juvenile as the other people who pick pictures of Greeks and romans from Lower Egypt and say (see, these pictures dating to 200bc show that the ancient Egyptians were white) it’s rather sophomoric and shows that you/them have an inability to approach a subject in an intellectual manner.
Actually, unfortuantely for you its not the same.
People who post images of Egyptians from the Greco Roman period(Im guessing you mean the Faiyum Portraits) fail to mention that 9 times of of ten the people depicted are Greeks and Romans or people who had their portraits made to look like a Greek or Roman. My images however are labeled and identified as Darius of Persia and a Persian soldier.
You understand the difference..?? Sadly for you the truth is devastating to your case, your best option is to claim they are fake like Clyde and Mike do. Bury your head in the sand.
quote:As I said before, it really is about context, without understanding the history as well as the peopling of these areas, your pictures mean nothing.[/b]
The only person who does'nt understand history, from my estimation here seems to be you.
[quote]The best way to put a subject to bed is with hard facts. Bring studies, and ancient accounts of people who were actually there. You can do that, and then no one can argue with you.
I did just that and I have you and your feeble attempts to "Argue", you seem to live in an alternate world.
quote:Well, they could, but they would make themselves seem rather silly. You posting pictures of supposed people of that ancient kingdom, with your dim witted assessment of what they mean, will not win the argument. Also, when speaking of “Persians” as you quoted in one of your subsequent post, do you mean the Fars people? That is a totally different subject all together. Again, context, context, context. You don’t know enough about this subject to have a well-informed/intelligent conversations. You should convene, research (that’s more than a day of googling half assed information to prove your point), THEN come and argue your case.
After all this long winded Spam and fallacy arguments you have yet to provide evidence that refutes what I said.
Thanks for the waste of time. [/QB]
*chuckle* you're silly
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
there's plenty of Gospel, Scottish music on youtube, someone saying Gospel is similar to Scottish music or African music should be able to give examples
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, eve Kramer from Seinfeld has curly hair so he must be black too!?
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, even David Hasselhoff has curly hair so he must be black too?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The original Proto- Saharan tribes of Central Asia were known as the Kushana, Yuehshih, Mandaga (Manda > Mande), and Kasu. The four kingdoms of Saka were the Maga (Manga), Masaka, Mansa and Mandaga (Manda). The term Saka, now used to describe a late Indo-European group that conquered Central Asia formerly was used to refer to the Kushites/Proto-Saharans of ancient Central Asia. The name Maga, reminds us of the Magians or Maka, of the Persian inscriptions who lived in Media.
The ancient Sumerian name for Medea ,was Mada. One of the six tribes of Mada,was the "Mages" or "Magu" in Persian. The name Mage signified "the great,the High". Herodotus, claimed the the Medes came from Athens. This would support a Mande origin.
Mede
.
Many cities of eastern Greece were early settled by the Manding speakers who presently live in West Africa. Moreover, in the Manding languages "Maga" means 'great". Moreover, the name of the King of the Soninke (Manding) speaking empire of Ghana (300 BC to AD 1100) was called Manda.
The Magians or Medians, were probably descendants of the Manding tribes which also included the Garamantes of European and Libyan fame, and in Asia under the name of Mandaga/Medians. This view is supported by linguistic, historical and cultural data.
Mede taking horses to Sargon
.
The language of the Medes, like Elamite is genetically related to the Manding languages. In addition the term Mandaga agrees with the title of the Manding tribes: for example, Manda agrees with Mande, the name of major group of Africans, who along with the Dravidians settled many parts of Asia.
Further confirmation of the Mande origin of the Medes is haplogroup E3b. It is interesting to note that E3b is found in this area. The Manding speakers carry the E3b haplogroup.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
William Leo Hansberry gives a great discussion of the evidence of African Kushites ruling in Asia and Africa. Some ancient scholars noted that the first rulers of Elam were of Kushite ( Kerma ? ) origin. According to Strabo, the first Elamite colony at Susa was founded by Tithnus, a King of Kush. Strabo in Book 15, Chapter 3728 wrote that in fact it is claimed that Susa was founded by Tithonus Memnon's father, and his citadel bore the name Memnonium. The Susians are also called Cissians. Aeschylus, calls Memnon's mother Cissia.
Here is King Xerxes and other Persian Brothers .
William Leo Hansberry, African History Notebook, (1981) Volume 2 noted that:
In Persia the old Negroid element seems indeed to have been sufficiently powerful to maintain the overlord of the land. For the Negritic strain is clearly evident in statuary depicting members of the royal family ruling in the second millenium B.C.
Hundreds of years later, when Xerxes invaded Greece, the type was well represented in the Persian army. In the remote mountain regions bordering on Persia and Baluchistan, there is to be found at the present time a Negroid element which bears a remarkable resemblance to the type represented on the ancient mounments. Hence the Negritic or Ethiopian type has proved persistent in this area, and in ancient times it seems to have constituted numerically and socially an important factor in the population" (p.52) .
Enjoy [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
In the Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Dravidian languages words are formed by adding an affix to a radical. In this section we will discuss certain aspects of shared Proto-Saharan morphology.
In these languages suffixes are usually used to create words. These suffixes can be a single consonant (C) or vowel (V), or a monosyllabic form (CV). The most common suffix in Dravidian, Egyptian, Elamite, Manding and Sumerian are the postfixes -ki, -ka and -ta , which are used to denote clans, nationality, lands and countries .
PLURAL
In the Proto-Saharan languages the plural is formed by adding -u,-w,-ba, -pa and -lu.In Egyptian, the --w suffix is used to form the plural. In the Dravidian (Dr.) . languages the plural if formed by -lu, especially in Telugu. In the Manding (M) group, and other African languages we find -lu or -u (-w), e.g., M. mogo 'husband,(pl.) mogo-lu 'husbands'; Telugu magaadu 'husband , man', (pl.) magaalu 'husbands'.
In many Black African languages ba means 'abundance, many'. In Elamite pa or fa is used to make plural numbers, e.g., ko-fa inna 'of the Kings', Bapitu fa-pa "to the Babylonians". The use of -pa, by the Elamites corresponds to the Manding use of the -ba suffix , which is joined to nouns to denote the idea of greatness, physical or moral e.g., na-folo 'good,rich', no-folo-ba 'great fortune'; and so-kalo 'piece', so-kala-ba 'considerable quarter of a village'.
NEGATIVE
In Black African languages including Egyptian the -n, is used to show negation. In Egyptian we often find -nn, e.g., nn wn 'there is nothing'. In Elamite the negative is formed by an uninflected nominal derivative in -n (active participle), e.g., ink 'I not", inr 'he not' and ani 'not'. This suffix is analogous to the M. negative suffix -na, employed as a suffix to -ka, e.g., ka na ku na tara so "I did not say I was going to the house" .
In Tamil the negative verbal participle is formed by suffixing a-mal or a-mei, e.g., sey (y)-a-mal 'without stopping'. The Tamil suffix -mei is also used as a terminationn for abstract nouns.
The negative suffix in Manding is -na, which is proceeded by ka and nt'i, e.g., kalu mba-nt'i. In Sumerian the negation of the verb is expressed by the prefixes nu- or la-, e.g., nu-zu "not to know", la-gin "not to fix" and nu-dug "not good. The optative mood are negatived by the element na,na-ma-pad "she may not".
PARTICLES
In Elamite personal nouns are formed by adding -ra, e.g., Kellira 'commander', kutira 'bearer'. This relates to the Manding suffix of the past and present participle -ra, this particle is used to make verbs passive or active, e.g., kyi 'send', kyi-ra 'messenger', gyi (ji) 'dry up', gyi-ra 'arid'.
In Sumerian the dative is expressed by the suffix -ra, which may appear in the form of -ar, -ir , and -ur, e.g., ma-ra 'to me', lugal-e-a-ra ' to the owner of the house'. This parallels the Manding locative suffix -ra, and -la , which can represent 'to,or, for, in ', e.g., tu-ra 'in the forest'.
The Elamite indefinite article is -ra, e.g., Parsar-ra 'a Persian', Afartu-ra 'an Elamite'. This corresponds to the Manding locative suffix -ra, e.g., Ton-ra 'land of Ton'.
The Proto-Saharan languages share the present participle -tu/-to. In Telugu (Tel.),the suffix -tu , is used as the present participle while in the Manding languages -to has the same function e.g., Tel. chestu 'made', M.tege 'to cut', tege-to 'cutting'.
The active participle in Elamite is -n, e.g., talu-n 'writing', or hali-n 'toiling'. This corresponds to the Manding -ni and -li elements e.g., sa 'buy', sanni 'buying', or du-mu 'eat', dumu-ni 'eating'. This -n, active participle is found in many other Black African languages including Egyptian.
The use of the -ka element is frequently found in the formation of Dravidian, Elamite, Egyptian, Manding and Sumerian languages. In Egyptian as outlined by Cheikh Anta Diop, in Nouvelles Recherches Sur l' Egyptien Ancien et Langues Negro-Africaines Modernes (pp.55-57), he outlines the use of /k/ and /t/ , to form agent nouns. In Parente genetique de l'Egyptien Pharonique et des langues Negro-Africaines (p.18), Diop explains the evolution of the -ky, and -kt particles.
In Elamite the passive participle is formed by -ka, e.g., hulta-ka 'done', turu-ka 'said'. This corresponds to the Manding -ka 'make, do',e.g., nyine 'see', nyini-ka 'interogate'.
In the Dravidian and Manding languages -ka, is used to represent the verb 'to be', as well as the subjunctive. For example in Manding languages ka, is a particle of different values, which corresponds to -kaa, the infinitive element in Telugu of the verb ag-uta 'to become'. In Tamil this
element appears as aaga. For example, in Manding we have a ka-nye 'it's good'; and in Telugu kaa valenu 'it is necessary'. The same radical -ka represents the optative form in Teluggu, e.g., aapani mundara kani 'how is labor given first place?'
In the Dravidian languages the suffixes -ke, -ge and -ka are used as the primitive verb 'to be' or 'to do'. They are usually used with abstract nouns e.g., ol 'to reign', ol-ka 'domination'. This corresponds to the Manding verb 'to do' ke , which is often joined to -la to form derived nouns e.g., sene 'cultivate', sene-li ke-la 'cultivator'.
These languages also share many cognate terms.
ENGLISH SUMERIAN MANDING TAMIL
chief kal,kala kele-tigi gasa(n)
field gan ga kalan
eye(l) igi akki
eye(2) ini,en nya kan
arrow kak kala kakam
granary kur k'ur-k'ur kutir
road sila sila caalai
father pap pa appan
lord manus mansa mannan
male mu moko maakkal
to recite sid siti
to buy sa sa cel
grain se se
seed gen ge 'to sprout'
English Dravidian Manding
top, summit kona kun
one ondu do
two pattu ta
four naal nani
person uki moko
fish(filet) bale bake
skin uri wuru,guru
house lon lu
head kuku ku
tongue na ne
blacksmith inumu numu
foot karal koro
liver karal kura
mud burada boro, buru
give idu di
stone kaly kulu
cloud kaar ka, kaba
fire ti ta
mountain kunru kuru
elder,grandfather maama maa-maa
ELAMITE ENGLISH MANDING
-ak and ka
turna know, awaken kuna, fori
sahri death sa
murta to erect kura
-mar from a place ma
li give di
tela to go tara
Nap God Nala
tus habitation du
husu ill-omened dyugu
kuta lance keru
lan,lani silver dala
ki one killi
ta place ta
kik sky,heaven ka
sari sculpter se
ufat steel tuufa
tela to go ta
khali great ka
dau help deema
ko king,lord ka
na say na
para to watch fere-ke
The lexical evidence above supports the hypothesis that a genetic relationship exist between Black African languages, Dravidian, Elamite and Sumerian. This linguistic data illustrates that a common cultural macrostructure is shared by these speakers which subsequently evolved along separate lines. Given this genetic unity of these languages we should call this group of Paleo-African languages situated in Africa and Asia B(lack) Af(rican), S(umerian, Draa(vidian), (E)lam: or Bafsudraalam subset of the Proto-Saharan Superset of languages.(Winters 1989)
The theory of borrowing in ancient time can not account for these morphological, lexicological and phonetic correspondences between Dravidian , Elamite, Egyptian, Manding and Sumerian, because of geographical discontinuity. This cognition illustrates a genetic relationship between the Bafsudraalam subset of the Proto-Saharan family of languages.
Winters (l989) in a comparison of 100 lexical items from Manding and Dravidian indicated a cognate rate of 70 to 75 percent . The retention rate corresponds to a minimum separation of 1.18 millennia.
Using the standard rates of retention for glottochronology, the rate for corresponding Manding, Sumerian and Tamil terms together is 50 percent retention rate, and suggest a minimum length of separation of 2.29 millennia for the group as a whole.(Winters 1989) But when we compare Manding-Sumerian
the retention rate is 70 percent or a minimum length of separation of 1.18 millennia. A comparison of Sumerian-Tamil corresponds to a 57 percent retention rate or a minimum separation of 1.50 millennia.
The length of separations for these languages are far too recent. We know for example that Sumerian had been absorbed by the Akkadian language much earlier then 2.29 millennia ago.
This was false. It appears that as late as 1000BC, Sumerian continued to be used by people in southern Mesopotamia (Jacobsen, 1988). This suggest that glottochronology may be useful in determining the relationship between various languages. This lends support to this linguistic method.
The conservative nature of these languages can be explained by socio-cultural factors. You see all languages do not change as rapidly as others. Dr. Diop, in The African Origins of Civilization, observes that "understandably stable societies man's language has changed less with the passage of time".
The linguistic evidence explains the appearance of similar artifacts recovered from Iran (Elam) , the Indus Valley and Egyptian archaeological excavations. The cultural features and works of art are analogous because these people came from a common origin in the ancient Saharan region of Africa.
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
LOL. Euronuts are such big liars. There has always been Blacks in Iran.
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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
There is textual evidence supporting a relationship between the founders of Sumer, Elam and Dilmun. Col. Henry Rawlinson , used textual evidence to determine that a link existed between the Mesopotamians to their ancestors in Africa . Rawlinson called these people Kushites.
There is a positive relationship between crania from Africa and Eurasia. The archaeologist Marcel-Auguste Dieulafoy (Dieulafoy,2004) and Hanberry (1981) maintains that their was a Sub-Saharan strain in Persia . These researchers maintain that it was evident that an Ethiopian dynasty ruled Elam from a perusal of its statuary of the royal family and members of the army ( Dieulafoy, 2004; Dieulafoy, 2010;Hansberry,1981). Dieulafoy (2010 ) noted that the textual evidence and iconography make it clear that the Elamites were Africans, and part of the Kushite confederation .Dieulafoy (2010) made it clear that the Elamites at Susa were Sub-Saharan Africans.
Marcel Dieulafoy and M. de Quatrefages observed that the craniometrics of the ancient Elamites of Susa indicate that they were Sub-Saharan Africans or Negroes (Dieulafoy,2010). Ancient Sub-Saharan African skeletons have also been found in Mesopotamia (Tomczyk et al, 2010). The craniometric data indicates that continuity existed between ancient and medieval Sub-Saharan Africans in Mesopotamia (Ricault & Waelkens,2008).
Rawlinson,H. “ Letter read at the meeting of the Royal Asiatic Society on February 5, 1853”, The Athenaeum, (No. 1321) ,p.228.
Rawlinson,H. “Note on the early History of Babylonia”, Journal Royal Asiatic Soc., 15, 215-259.
Ricaut,F.X. and Waelkens.2008. Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzatine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements, Hum Biol, 80(5):535-564.
Tomczyk,J., Jedrychowska-Danska, K., Ploszaj,T & Witas H.W. (2010). Anthropological analysis of the osteological material from an ancient tomb (Early Bronze Age) from the middle Euphrates valley, Terqa (Syria) , International Journal of Osteoarchaeology, Retrieved 04/04/10 from (www.interscience.wiley.com)DOI:10.1002/oa.1150
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Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh, look persian poet Ahmad SHamlu. White skin with curly hair
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Look at this Iranian actor. He looks just like those in Persepolis, white skin with Persian curly hair and beard.
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
^You're not helping your case.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh Look another white person with curly hair. Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh, look even Danny Masterson from that 70's show has a curly hair. Is he black too? Am I embarrassing you guys? Tell when you had enough.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, even Tom Jones has curly hair, is he black too? Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, even james caan has curly hair. Is he black too?
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, even Don Stark from that 70's show has curly hair. Is he black too?
Posted by GOMTUU (Member # 19606) on :
You lost your argument armadillo.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Why do Turk mulattoes have such identity problems?
Worst yet, when they go to the Albinos in the north, they are sh1t upon. Which of course they deserve, but still, it seems strange that they try so hard to be like, and accepted, by people who sh1t on them - very strange.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, even Jeremy Clarkson has curly hair. Is he black too? Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
arman, you have to match the skin tone for Elamites:
Elamite Elamite
^^^ notice like the colored relief above the man's hair has a large straight section. This implies that the curled sections were artificailly curled (or the staright sections were artifcially straightened)
Elamite Elamite
Assyrian Assyrian
^^^the beards here have been artificially altered by hair styling methods
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh Look another white person with curly hair.
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh look, even Tom Jones has curly hair, is he black too?
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh look, even Don Stark from that 70's show has curly hair. Is he black too?
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh, look even Danny Masterson from that 70's show has a curly hair. Is he black too? Am I embarrassing you guys? Tell when you had enough.
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh look, even james caan has curly hair. Is he black too?
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh look, even Jeremy Clarkson has curly hair. Is he black too?
You don't know their genetic makeup and ancestry.
quote:
Dr. Rick A Kittles
The graph also depicts another variable, one that is of interest to the historian—endogamous group membership or ethnic self-identity. Each dot in the chart is encoded to show whether the person sampled claimed to be a member of the U.S. White endogamous group (diamond shape, 187 individuals) or of the U.S. Black endogamous group (open circle, 232 individuals). (The x-shaped plots represent a population of British West Indian ethnicity living in London.12) The graph refers to these three groups as European American, African American, and African Caribbean, respectively, and the text explains that this trait was self-assessed and independent of actual genetics.
With this added information, three aspects of the scatter diagram suddenly jump out at you. First, there is significant overlap between White and Black Americans regarding Afro-European genetic admixture. Some so-called “Black” Americans have less DNA admixture of African ancestral origin than do some so-called “White” Americans. Second, the admixture range of Black Americans spans the entire chart. While most of the subjects who self-identify as Black (marked as circles) have strong African admixture (are found towards the right), some have little or no African admixture (are found at the left edge). Finally, although the range of genetic admixture in those who self-identify as “White” is narrower than the admixture range of Blacks, it is still significant. Many so-called “White” Americans have as much as 20 percent or more of African genetic admixture.
The next graph, “Afro-European Genetic Admixture as a Function of Ethnicity” below, was taken from a different study. It also matches ancestral continent-of-origin genetic admixture for several hundred individuals with their ethnic self-identity or endogamous group membership.
quote:
Genetic Admixture is not the Same as Appearance
About one-third of White Americans are of between two and twenty percent recent African genetic admixture, as measured by the ancestry-informative markers in their DNA.19 This comes to about 74 million Americans. And yet, day-to-day experience teaches that virtually all White Americans look, well, White. Some may look more Mediterranean and others may look more Nordic, but very few White Americans have a distinctively African appearance. How can one reconcile DNA measurements with common experience?An anecdote may help illustrate the problem. Look again at the chart of Skin Tone as Function of Afro-European Admixture. Consider one of the graph’s outlier points—a “European American” individual plotted as having 11 percent20 African genetic admixture. Dr. Shriver, the project team leader, became curious about this individual for two reasons. First, the person’s African genetic admixture was unusually high for someone who self-identified as a member of the U.S. White endogamous group. Second, the sample had been taken from State College, Pennsylvania, the site of Dr. Shriver’s own campus.21 According to Dr. Shriver:
I had the result for two or three years before I even looked up the ID number of the person whom we tested. I looked at who it was and it was me! I checked myself and the rest of my relatives and tracked it through my family. I never considered that there were any African people in my family. There’s no real variation in my family. The admixture must have been pretty far back. It just so happens that we can detect it with the markers we have. My mom especially stood out as being surprised, maybe because I told her it was coming through her father. She still doesn’t believe it about her family! The part of Pennsylvania where my mother’s father came from is where the Underground Railroad ended. There are several towns right here in Southern Pennsylvania where there are very light-skinned African-American communities that are the remnants of the Underground Railroad.22
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
Yorkshireman found to share DNA with African tribes
Scientists from Leicester University made the finding during research sponsored by The Wellcome Trust.
They were examining the relationship between the male, or Y, chromosome and surnames.
Like surnames, the Y-chromosome is passed from father to son, virtually unchanged through generations.
Professor Mark Jobling said: "We found John was in the A1 group of Y-chromosomes, which is very rare and highly west African-specific.
The University's Director of Archaeological Museums, Lindsay Allason-Jones, who has organized an exhibition of the Museum's Romano-African artefacts to coincide with Black History Month, says: 'From the evidence we have here, it is clear that colour was no bar to the status an individual could achieve in the Roman Empire'...
“Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland.
From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.”
* Source "ANOTHER AFROCENTRIC" lol: The National Archives of Scotland.
"The King Provides Clothes for the Party A variety of fabrics were used to make clothing for the Moors - velvet ('wellus'), woollen kersey ('carsay') and fine Holland linen - which was decorated or fastened with buttons, rings or other ornaments ('mailyeis'). These were paid for by the treasury of King James IV. It seems that these Moors were not servants; it is more likely that they were invited guests staying at the palace. Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, vol. 3, p. 101 (1505)"
"The King Requests an Audience with a Black Baby This extract from the Lord High Treasurer's accounts show that in 1505/6 a payment of 28 shillings was made to 'the nuris that brocht the Moris barne to see, be the Kingis command'. The king must have known of this child to ask to see it." "The child may have been that of the 'More taubronar', the Black drummer at court. Treasury accounts also itemise accommodation for the 'wife of the taubronar and his barne'. This would suggest that the drummer was living at the palace with his family. Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, vol. 3, p. 182 (1505/6)"
This image, an extract from the 60ft-long Westminster Tournament Roll, shows six trumpeters, one of whom is Black and is almost certainly John Blanke. All the trumpeters are wearing yellow and grey, with blue purses at their waists. John Blanke is the only one wearing a brown turban latticed with yellow. He is mounted on a grey horse with a black harness.
The image of who they speak...so let us make no mistake about it. lol
Westminster Tournament Roll (1511) By permission of The College of Arms, London
So who were the Numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum and why are they so important to the Black British community? Our key evidence for this unit is a 4th century inscription, found in 1934 at the village of Beaumont two miles east of Burgh-by-Sands on the banks of the River Eden, and known as the Beaumont inscription. Translated from the Latin it reads:
To Jupiter Best and Greatest and the Majesty of our two Emperors, to the Genius [guardian spirit] of the numerus of Aurelian Moors, Valerianus’ and Gallienus’ own, Caelius Vibianus, cohort-tribune in charge of the above-mentioned numerus, [set up this altar] through the agency of Julius Rufinus, senior centurion.
Real Duth History, owner: The Royal Library at The Hague.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: Oh look, eve Kramer from Seinfeld has curly hair so he must be black too!?
Auton et al. [8] presented nuclear genome-based evidence for sharing of sub-Saharan African ancestry in some West Eurasians, by identifying a North-South gradient of haplotype sharing between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans, with the highest proportion of haplotype sharing observed in south/southwestern Europe. However, none of these studies used genome-wide data to estimate the proportion of African ancestry in West Eurasians, or the date(s) of mixture.
We observe that many Levantine, Southern European and Jewish populations are shifted towards San compared to Northern Europeans, consistent with African mixture, and motivating formal testing for the presence of African ancestry (Figure 1, Figure S2). lol
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: here is a typical black profile
How is that a typical "black" profile?lol
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:Originally posted by melchior7:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
"IF" YOU LIVE...
THE PRICE OF DEFEAT IS POVERTY!
Thank you for this photos Mike some of them look like ancient Elamites and others like the remnants of the people of Darius and Xerxes - the Dahae. Some, however, are possibly of more recent Makrani AFricans.
The original Kerman or Carmani which are mentioned by Herodotus were likely connected to the Daae and Derbikes.
Did someone fail to mention that there were African slaves in Iran brought from East Africa during the Qajar dynasty, who were mostly concentrated in Hormozgan, Sistan-Baluchestan and Khuzestan?
Thats Afrocentric scholarship for ya...leave out the parts that don't agree with what you are trying to claim!
And what about the report from Strabo, Diodoros and Heradotus that clearly state there was a clear "ethiopian" presence in Persia? Slavery can't explain that.
Mike, these pics are awesome beautiful.
A ancient Kushite (Relief from the eastern stairs of the Apadana at Persepolis)
quote:
Nubian with oryx, monkey, and leopard skins, 8th–7th century b.c.; Neo-Assyrian period; Phoenician style
Excavated at Fort Shalmaneser, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), Mesopotamia Ivory
H. 5 5/16 in. (13.5 cm) Rogers Fund, 1960 (60.145.11)
Furniture decorated with carved ivory plaques was a symbol of wealth throughout the Near East during the early first millennium B.C. The ivories were carved in the major centers of Phoenicia—along the eastern Mediterranean coast—as well as in Syria and the Assyrian plains. Assyrian conquests beginning in the ninth century B.C. brought richly decorated furniture as booty and tribute from the cities of Syria and Phoenicia, and craftsmen taken prisoner from these cities probably continued to carve ivories on the Assyrian coast.
Some Phoenician-style ivories are solid plaques, while others are carved on one or both sides in a delicate openwork technique. Many originally were covered by gold leaf and inlaid with semiprecious stones or colored glass. Such rich combinations of ivory, gold, and brightly colored stones made the thrones of the Assyrian kings famous for their exquisite beauty. Most ivories carved in the Phoenician style were probably produced during the late eighth and seventh centuries B.C.
Phoenician ivory carvers were strongly influenced by the themes and style of Egyptian art owing to longstanding ties between the two cultures. Some Phoenician ivories illustrate purely Egyptian themes, but many use Egyptian motifs in entirely original compositions.
This Nubian tribute bearer exhibits traits of the Phoenician style, characterized by the slender, elongated form of the bearer and his animal gifts, the precision of carving and intricacy of detail, and the distinct Egyptian flavor of both pose and features
Source: Nubian with oryx, monkey, and leopard skins [Excavated at Fort Shalmaneser, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), Mesopotamia] (60.145.11) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Citation
"Nubian with oryx, monkey, and leopard skins [Excavated at Fort Shalmaneser, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), Mesopotamia] (60.145.11)". In Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History. New York: The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 2000 ndash;. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/60.145.11 (October 2006)
Source: Nubian with oryx, monkey, and leopard skins [Excavated at Fort Shalmaneser, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), Mesopotamia] (60.145.11) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Hi Everyone, I was away for a while. Anyways, where was I? Oh yes, look at Valeria Golino. She has curly hair with blue eyes. Is she black too? Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Juno Temple has curly hair with green eyes. Is she black too? Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
Oh look, Alexa Davalos has curly hair, is she black too? Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^All Albinos started out Black.
Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
And finally here is my photo. 100% Persian. All my relatives are the same. Although majority prefer to straighten their hair, otherwise curly by nature. Do I look black to you? Posted by arman (Member # 19390) on :
My final word: In my posts, no racism is intended. As I said before, I really hope one day black people get over their inferiority complex and instead of trying to attach themselves to other civilizations, build something on their own.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Arman, you waste your time. You are dealing with race-crazed black idiots whose low self-esteem have made them no different from the race-crazed white idiots who want to white-wash ancient African cultures. No amount of picture spamming will change anything.
Posted by adrenaline (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: And finally here is my photo. 100% Persian. All my relatives are the same. Although majority prefer to straighten their hair, otherwise curly by nature. Do I look black to you?
Hey, I didn't say anything
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by arman: And finally here is my photo. 100% Persian. All my relatives are the same. Although majority prefer to straighten their hair, otherwise curly by nature. Do I look black to you?
You are Caucasoid. Look like an Orientalid blend (Iranid/Arabid) with minor Armenid/Assyrid.
Curly hair is Caucasoid. Wooly hair is Negroid.
The Afronuts fail to distinguish between the two.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Cranial studies as late as the Iranian bronze age show that some in the Persian region resembled tropical Africans who of course vary widely in looks. They were NOT identical to tropical Africans but resembled them on numerous counts re cranial analysis. Tropical Africans can have light skin and narrow noses due to:
(a) adaptation to the numerous micro-climes INSIDE THE TROPICAL ZONES
(b) migration out of heavy tropic zones into sub-tropic ones with corresponding adaptation over time
(c) built-in, original African genetic diversity
These 3 factors cover all bases. Tropical Africans can vary simply by residing enough time in a different climatic zone within Africa but even this isn't needed given the massive built-in diversity of native Africa. Hence no mass influxes of "Middle Easterners" or bogus "Mediterraneans" are needed to give tropical Africans diversity. SO tropical African variants in ancient Mesopotamia would be nothing new.
Tropical climates are extremely diverse – from humid rainforest, to higher altitude cold zones, to arid deserts with sharply dropping night temperatures. Scientists find that nose width is correlated with climate – with narrower noses seen in dry, conditions such as desert areas in eastern parts of Africa. Tropical Africans are not static people but move around within the continent.
QUOTE: "Tropical climates range from oppressively hot and humid lowlands to cold, snow-covered mountains, from hot, dry deserts to cold, dry deserts, from extreme seasonal variability of precipitation to nearly constant year-round conditions." --Huston. M. (1994) Biological diversity: the coexistence of species on changing landscapes Cambridge university Press. p 498
QUOTE: "An important function of the nose is to warm and moisten inspired air. When air is exhaled, some heat and moisture are lost to the surroundings. The longer the nasal passage, the more efficient the nose is for warming and moistening incoming air and also the less heat and moisture are lost on exhalation. A narrow, high nose gives a longer nasal passage than a low, broad nose. Therefore, in cold or dry conditions, a high, narrow nose is preferable for warming and moistening air before it reaches the lings, and for reducing loss of heat and moisture in expired air. In hot, humid conditions a low, broad nose serves to dissipate heat (Wolpoff 1968; Franciscis and Long 1991)... The pattern of variation in nasal index corresponds very broadly to that expected if nasal form is indeed an adaptation to regional climate.
The highest nasal index values, representing broad, low noses, tend to be those of populations in humid tropical regions of Africa and south-east Asia. Populations with low mean nasal indices (high, narrow noses) tend to be found in the cold, northern latitudes, and also in arid regions, such as the desert areas of east Africa and the Arabian peninsula. ..Davies found the nasal index taken in the living was closely correlated with skeletal nasal index. This suggests that there should likewise be an association between skeletal nasal index and climatic zone, and indeed other workers have found this to be the case.“ -- Mays. S. (2010). The Archaeology of Human Bones. Pg 100-101
2011 study finds significant correlation between nasal shape and climate. Dry areas are common in tropical zone micro-climates such as deserts.
QUOTE: “"The nasal cavity is essential for humidifying and warming the air before it reaches the sensitive lungs. Because humans inhabit environments that can be seen as extreme from the perspective of respiratory function, nasal cavity shape is expected to show climatic adaptation.. We report significant correlations between nasal cavity shape and climatic variables of both temperature and humidity. Variation in nasal cavity shape is correlated with a cline from cold-dry climates to hot-humid climates, with a separate temperature and vapor pressure effect. " -- Noback, M. et al. (2011) Climate-related variation of the human nasal cavity. AJPA, 145: 4. 599-614
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
arman - I never said that you were Black. I said that PERSIANS were Black.
YOU are a delusional mulatto, no different than the ones in Egypt, Iraq, Turkey, Arabia, etc.
And of course the same goes for that Negrito/Mongol mulatto mutt from the Philippines, your new friend Djehuti.
I say, it's best for mutts to stay out of the conversation, because all you do is transfer your racial confusion to others.
arman, you are a perfect example, you want to claim Persian heritage but not Persian color or race.
Well, truth be told, I wouldn't want something like you claiming to be Black. But I'm not going to let you claim Persian either - that's your lying Albino side talking there, and I'm having none of it.
This is what a PERSIAN LOOKED LIKE - AND YOU DON'T COME CLOSE!
THIS IS WHAT A TURK LOOKED LIKE - AND I DO SEE THE RESEMBLANCE!
Note to Lioness, Doxie, and Cass:
See how "ADMIXTURE" Works?
They are called "Mulattoes".
.
NOW BOTH OF YOU KEEP QUIET!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Mike you would have to agree that there is nothing about this Iranian man that excludes him from being very similar to the depiction of Shapur below, correct? As per skin tone, he could tan quite a bit darker with prolonged sun exposure
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
^^^ Mike look at this it's Darius, another depiction that the Iranian man at the top looks similar to. If there was a relief sculpture of this Iranian man with curly hair it would look vary similar to the many of the persians depicted in the ancient art, correct?
^^^ Mike you put this up. The lips are not very full, there is no prognothism, the noses and somewhat pointy, not very wide, with small nostrils. Look at the scale of the curls. the look medium large like the Iranian man above. Afro kinky curls and much smaller tighter curls, more of a "fuzzy" look. I'm not saying it couldn't be a dark skinned person but it doesn't really give the impression of an African or so called "black" person, you would have to agree. I challenge you put up a photo of a man you think has a better resemblance to the above Shapur and Darius.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Djehuti - I know that I told you to be quiet, but in thinking about it, I realized that it was unfair to document arman's mulattohood and not do yours too.
So then, these people are the original Filipinos. They are called Negritos, and as you can clearly see, they are Black people.
As you know invading Chinese, Spanish, and American arrivals intermarried with the various indigenous ethnic groups - producing any number of Mulatto types.
So what I would like for you to do, is to pick out which of the pictures below most resemble you. That way, we will know exactly just what kind of mulatto you are.
Blended family : Jewish father with 2 sons from first marriage and 2 half Filipino sons with his second wife
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Djehuti - I know that I told you to be quiet, but in thinking about it, I realized that it was unfair to document arman's mulattohood and not do yours too.
So then, these people are the original Filipinos. They are called Negritos, and as you can clearly see, they are Black people.
I wouldn't agree that they are clearly "Black" people. The term isn't precise, it's just applied as an opinion. To me these people don't really look African, they look like a combination of things, a bit African, a bit like so called mongoloid Asians and a touch of American Indian. The thing is all of the so called "races" have features that crossover
Clearly they don't look like this: Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Cranial studies as late as the Iranian bronze age show that some in the Persian region resembled tropical Africans who of course vary widely in looks. They were NOT identical to tropical Africans but resembled them on numerous counts re cranial analysis. Tropical Africans can have light skin and narrow noses due to:
(a) adaptation to the numerous micro-climes INSIDE THE TROPICAL ZONES
(b) migration out of heavy tropic zones into sub-tropic ones with corresponding adaptation over time
(c) built-in, original African genetic diversity
These 3 factors cover all bases. Tropical Africans can vary simply by residing enough time in a different climatic zone within Africa but even this isn't needed given the massive built-in diversity of native Africa. Hence no mass influxes of "Middle Easterners" or bogus "Mediterraneans" are needed to give tropical Africans diversity. SO tropical African variants in ancient Mesopotamia would be nothing new.
Posted by kikuyu22 (Member # 19561) on :
Arman typifies the uselessness of engaging the emotional race obsessed troll. He responds with ignorant photo spam while others have peer reviewed craniometrics and cited sources proving a long history of blacks all over the ME. What is the point??
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Move it up.
Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
No they were white.
Sasanian murals in Kuh i khwaja 400 AD, Iran:
Alexander sarcophargus showing Greeks fighting Persians, 325BC ( colours revealed by UV/Vis spectrometry
Wood painting in an achaemenid Tomb found in Turkey, Tatarli Tumulus, 400–500 BC (original coulours)
Sasanian embassy in India 450 AD ( Ajanta caves, India)
Alexander mosaic (100 BC)
Alexander and Roxane as Mars and Venus, persian solider to the left, 200 BC Pompeji
Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
Sasanian Princes (300AD, Iran, Shahr e Gur) ]
Sasanian noble men 400 AD, Hajyabad, Iran
Sasanian bust of Khusrau found in Ctesiphon (this bust's beard and hair can be compared to the above mural painting)
Coptic textile showing Sasanians fighting Arabs and Ethiopians (600–700AD)
Achaemenid noble man
Sasanian bust found in Susa, Iran
Sasanian Vase (500 AD, Merv)
Tissaphernes, Achaemenid satrap Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
Mosaic of a sasanian lady with braided Hair found in Iran Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
Posted by Nevermore (Member # 22897) on :
Furthermore this is a quote by the black Muslim Author, Al-Jahiz from the 9th century: “*Therefore, if the Arabs are ruddy, then they belong to the Byzantines (Rum), Slaves (Saqaliba), Persians and Khurasanis. But if they belong to the dark-skinned peoples, then they are a sub-category of our stock. So they are called medium-complexioned and brownish-black (sumr sud) when they are classified with us, as the Arabs use the masculine gender to refer to a group consisting of females and males.”
In the Shahnama, written by the persian poet, Firdawsi, Rudaba, mother of Rustam, is described having* ****“skin like ivory”**** *and a face ***“like the moon”*** and a*** “rosy complexion”.*** In the Avesta, Anahita is described having ***“white arms".***
The Roman Sextus Empiricus contrasts the*** ***female beauty standard of the Ethiopians with that of the Persians: ***“the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and most snub-nosed, the Persians preferring the whitest and most hook-nosed…”***
Curly hair of Persians in Persepolis:
“There can be little doubt that Achaemenid kings and courtiers wore wigs and false hairpieces and their images at Persepolis and other palace sites certainly suggest that false tresses ... Strabo (15.3.21) notes that hair was therefore a taxable item in the Persian Empire…”
From the book “God's black Prophets”: *When Christian Ethiopia reconquered Jewish Yemen in 520 CE, Jewish exiles sought assistance from the Byzantine ruler of Constantinople who turned them down on behalf of his co-religionists. On the other hand Chosroes, Zoroastrian king of Persia, took a different position. He said to the Jews: "This is the white skin against the black race. I am closer to you than to the Abyssinians." After their victory over 'the black race' the victory poem began: "We have crossed the waters to free Himyar (southern Arabia) from tyranny of the blacks.
Sayf b. Dhû Yazan, a chief of the dominant Himayrite clan of Arabs, went to Chosroes (Khusrû), the king of Persia, for help. "He said: 'O King, ravens have taken possession of our country.' Chosroes asked, 'What ravens, Abyssinians or Sindhians?' 'Abyssinians,' he replied." "Ravens" meant black people, who were identified with Indians and Abyssinians in the minds of Arabs and Persians at that time.
And: “When the persian King Chosroes heard of this he sent Wahriz with 4,000 Persians and ordered him to kill every Abyssinian or child of an Abyssinian and an Arab woman, great or small, and not leave alive a single man with crisp curly hair. Wahriz arrived and in due course carried out these instructions and wrote to tell the kind that he had done so. The king then gave him viceregal authority and he ruled under Chosroes”
Furthermore from Lisan al-Arab: “ And the Arabs used to say about the non-Arabs with whom white skin was characteristic, such as the Romans, [B]Persians[B], and their neighbors: ‘They are red-skinned (*al-hamra’*)…”* al-hamra’* means the Persians and Romans…And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves.**”**
Ibn Berry, the well-known Arab grammarian of the 12th century AD, explains Al Fadl ibn Al Abbas's words by saying, "...He means by this that his genealogy is pure and that he is a pure Arab because the Arabs describe their color as black and they describe the color of the non-Arab Persians as red".
Ibn Mandour further describes the pure Arabs by saying,** "Lank hair is the kind of hair that most non-Arab Persians and Romans have while kinky hair is the kind of hair that most Arabs have**". Al-Mubarrad (898), claimed: The Arabs used to take pride in their brown and black complexion ( al-sumra wa al-saw§d )and they had a distaste for a white and fair complexion ( al-Èumra waal-shaqra ), and theyused to say that such was the complexion of the non-Arabs. **In Tareeq Al Madinah li Ibn Abi Shaybah, Chapter 3, pages 490- 491** Uyaynatu ibn Hasn said, “Oh leader of the believers,Verily I see the non Arabs** (Persians) **increasing in number in your country , beware of them. He said (Ameer al Mumimeen) they have been holding onto the ropes of Islam…. Look at [B]red (white skinned) blue eyed from them striving in the deen [B]
and here it comes.....
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Considering that is the land of my birth and where I grew up- my HOMELAND, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you can do so....YANKEE BLOODCLAAT BWOY worry bout ya owna roots...I will worry bout mine...remember you must read it- but dat place deh you READ fe learn bout (or maybe you travel visit and stay in tourist areas; when I visit I stay with my family- no tourist ting for mi), MI DID BAWN AND GROW DEH MI FAMILY LIVE DEH AND MI WILL RETURN DEH UPON RETIREMENT IF NOT SOONER....LOL I DON'T EVEN HAVE AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP....you can NEVA know Jamdung like mi or Brada... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
claffy 
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, what a bunch of BS. 
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