posted
LOL Obviously Confirmed Idiot does not know that Egyptian records clearly show that Libyans were originally no different in physical appearance from themselves i.e. BLACK. White Libyans did not appear until New Kingdom times. Perhaps the same can be said for Canaanites and other Levantine peoples. In fact Classical Greek sources spoke of Leuco-Syrians (White Syrians) as a distinction to other Syrians. All of this goes in according to Biblical traditions stating that Ham was the forefather of BLACK peoples.
Posts: 26262 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ham is the race and not the sub-races. Not aware of any color association with the subraces. What are you basing that on?
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] LOL Obviously Confirmed Idiot does not know that Egyptian records clearly show that Libyans were originally no different in physical appearance from themselves i.e. BLACK.
what is your source on this?
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
From the biblical perspective, these people are all Hamites. The ancient Egyptians categorized these four people by color. During the age of ancient Egypt, color was the determinant for race, hence, the title of thread -"Four races of Ham."
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Gen 10:6 ¶ And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
posted
Only thing, B*reishiyth makes no mention of race nor does the Book of Gates the Gate of Teka Hra.
אֵלֶּה בְנֵי-חָם - These are the sons of Ham לְמִשְׁפְּחֹתָם - after their families לִלְשֹׁנֹתָם - after their tongues בְּאַרְצֹתָם - in their lands בְּגוֹיֵהֶם - in their nations
In the Hebrew account everybody's related by common descent and all of humanity grew out of one or other related family with all the cousins each developing its language, settling a territory, and nation building.
And in the Book of Gates the four sets of four depicted peoples are all in common labeled the Herd of Ra though their genesis is each separate by one of two cosmic entities Hor or Sekhmet both of whom were seen as aspects of Ra in the creation of two overall communities in relation to Nile lands and foreign lands to its east and west.
All the above from Lepsius without racial caricatures not on the tomb walls.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Excellent post Confirming Truth. I love it when you Albinos make my case for me.
What we have here, is a case of the Albino making fantasy into fact. And all he needed to do it was his power and control over media. For the fools who believe in White media, this is an abject lesson for you.
Best or worst of all, all he needed to convince the idiots, was a damn cartoon, drawn by some German guy.
From Wiki
A Libyan, a Nubian, a Syrian, and an Egyptian, drawing by an unknown artist after a mural of the tomb of Seti I; Copy by Heinrich von Minutoli (1820) from Hornung, The Tomb of Pharaoh Seti I, 1991.
A White guy, writing a nonsense article for a White newspaper, intended for a White audience, eager to hear how they were a great people from the earliest times. Always in the mix, quite possibly the inventors of it all.
And not once did any of them say: Hey wait a minute, someone like me walking around bare-chested in Libya or Egypt???
Wouldn't that kill us?
He,he, well yes it would!
But then again, this IS White fantasy, isn't it.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
AlTakruri, Bereshit does make mention of race. Hell! you have it right in your post! The term may not have existed back then but the concept sure did!
Gen 10:20 These [are] the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, [and] in their nations.
Defintion of race -
Race is classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics [after their familiies] or geographic ancestry [in their lands], but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as appearance [after their family], culture [after their tongues, in their nations], ethnicity [family], and socio-economic status...
Posts: 1340 | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Who but the White man, with his Albinism defected mind, and aided by his "Wet Washing" Sand Nigger accomplices, could take THIS: .
(Note the unwashed upper part of the face,the skin is Black!)
(Note the unwashed triangle on the right: the skin is Black!)
And make it into this fine example of the White mans pathetic need to prop himself up by falsifying Black artifacts. So that he can then have support for his false and delusional history.
From Wiki A Libyan, a Nubian, a Syrian, and an Egyptian, drawing by an unknown artist after a mural of the tomb of Seti I; Copy by Heinrich von Minutoli (1820) from Hornung, The Tomb of Pharaoh Seti I, 1991. Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
The concept is not the same or some "authorized" translator would've used race, but none ever have.
As far as I can tell a family, a language, a territory, and a nation, each and all can have members of different sociological races as in common parlance.
But, yes, a family look can predispose.
If the Hham and Shem superfamiles are discrete races then I can't imagine why someone of b*nai Shem would refer to one of their own as Kushi or Kushan as in TN"K.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: AlTakruri, Bereshit does make mention of race. Hell! you have it right in your post! The term may not have existed back then but the concept sure did!
Gen 10:20 These [are] the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, [and] in their nations.
Defintion of race -
Race is classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics [after their familiies] or geographic ancestry [in their lands], but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as appearance [after their family], culture [after their tongues, in their nations], ethnicity [family], and socio-economic status...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Africans to the west of Egypt became mixed overtime particularly with the island and north Mediterranean peoples.
In earlier paintings they were as dark as the Egyptians painted themselves. By the times of the above mural piece the Africans west of AE had elements who were pale from absorbing the settlers and imported women from the north.
In BG:s30 Tjemehu is generic for all Africans west of Egypt whatever their complexion. This scene chose light skin elements. The man at left, his left arm and leg reveal his near white complexion. The NK AEs ranked Tjemehu among the reds not the blacks.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
alTakruri - Seti I was the 2nd king of the 19th dynasty, circa 1300 B.C. At that time there were still no Whites in Africa.
The first Whites in Africa
Our only source for this first Greek/Egyptian encounter, is the Greek historian Herodotus, in his book "The Persian Wars" Written 440 B.C. (He says that these things were told to him by the Egyptians). However, Herodotus is known to have been rather loose with the truth. By the time of this account (664–610 B.C.), Whites had been in Europe for at least 500 years, and had been marauding in the Mediterranean for 400 years. Egyptians had a close relationship with Cretans and Mycenaean's, and kept close tabs on the goings-on in the north: therefore they would have known about the White invaders, as soon as they arrived.
In Book 2 - EUTERPE, he writes:
[2.152] This was the second time that Psammetichus (Psamtik I, reign 664–610 B.C. 26th dynasty) had been driven into banishment. On a former occasion he had fled from Sabacos the Ethiopian (Nubian), who had put his father Necos to death; and had taken refuge in Syria (Assyria) from whence, after the retirement of the Ethiop in consequence of his dream, he was brought back by the Egyptians of the Saitic canton. Now it was his ill-fortune to be banished a second time by the eleven kings, on account of the libation which he had poured from his helmet; on this occasion he fled to the marshes.
Feeling that he was an injured man, and designing to avenge himself upon his persecutors, Psammetichus sent to the city of Buto, where there is an oracle of Latona, the most veracious of all the oracles of the Egyptians, and having inquired concerning means of vengeance, received for answer that "Vengeance would come from the sea, when brazen men should appear. Great was his incredulity when this answer arrived, for never, he thought, would brazen men arrive to be his helpers. However, not long afterwards certain Carians (Black Anatolians) and Ionians (Greeks), who had left their country (a colony in Anatolia), on a voyage of plunder, were carried by stress of weather to Egypt where they disembarked, all equipped in their brazen armour, and were seen by the natives, one of whom carried the tidings to Psammetichus, and, as he had never before seen men clad in brass, he reported that brazen men had come from the sea and were plundering the plain. Psammetichus, perceiving at once that the oracle was accomplished, made friendly advances to the strangers, and engaged them, by splendid promises, to enter into his service. He then, with their aid and that of the Egyptians who espoused his cause, attacked the eleven and vanquished them.
The Greeks actually invaded Africa at Cyrene Libya, circa 589 B.C.
Obviously the drawing is a lie. So please explain what you are talking about.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
You are an ignorant person if you are arguing that the word/term "race" did not exist at the time. You should be looking for the concept, not term. And frankly, the concept of categorizing a people's pedigree based on certain criteria existed back then. Race based social hierarchy is nothing new, dating back to BC era. The same criteria used today to formulate racial taxonomy was used back then, as exemplified in my previous post.
BTW..., in ancient semite culture, words like "Laban" and "Kushi" were used to denote skin complexion, no big deal dude.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The concept is not the same or some "authorized" translator would've used race, but none ever have.
As far as I can tell a family, a language, a territory, and a nation, each and all can have members of different sociological races as in common parlance.
But, yes, a family look can predispose.
If the Hham and Shem superfamiles are discrete races then I can't imagine why someone of b*nai Shem would refer to one of their own as Kushi or Kushan as in TN"K.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: AlTakruri, Bereshit does make mention of race. Hell! you have it right in your post! The term may not have existed back then but the concept sure did!
Gen 10:20 These [are] the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, [and] in their nations.
Defintion of race -
Race is classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics [after their familiies] or geographic ancestry [in their lands], but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as appearance [after their family], culture [after their tongues, in their nations], ethnicity [family], and socio-economic status...
Clearly North African and "Sea Peoples" alliances didn't begin with the latter's advance on Egypt.
North African Iberian trade goes back at least to 2000 BCE and N.African Italian trade to 1500 BCE.
G. Mokhtar ed. UNESCO General History of Africa v2 Berkely: University of California Press, 1981 p. 426
Minoan mural seemingly indicates marriages between NA men and island or N Med women.
@CT Laban is not one of the b*nei Hham but Kush is.
You first claimed Kush is a race now you claim it is only a colour. If it is a race then no b*nei Shem like the Midianites should have ever been called Kushiym, i.e., out of their race, since Kush, unlike laban, is not a color.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
alTakruri I take it that you base the existence of Whites in the Mediterranean prior to circa 1,200 B.C. on the White female center right, in the picture above.
By that same token, then as seen in the picture below, and in many other Egyptian artifacts, many Egyptian females were White also, correct?
Note: they even had one White child and one Black child - now THAT'S integration!
posted
alTakruri - While you're at it, would you mind telling me why only females were White?
I mean, how did they do that?
You know, how did they manage to only have White FEMALE children? Even today, with all of our science, we still can't do that.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
You're really not worth the time and it's not just your disgusting attitudes scapegoating whites and derogating Africa's blacks that make you below anything more than irregular once in a long while notice.
Anyone can see the facial features and hair of the men of the house in the Minoan fresco is as varied from that woman as their colour.
North African taste toward white and near white women didn't wait until the Islamic slavetrading.
The Seti I BG:s30 Tjemehu are not and were not black in colour and neither were they in some other BG:s30 tomb murals as below.
click image for sources
Definitely many creamy coloured Tjemehu were already around for some generations previous Dyn 19.
But have it your way, blame it all upon the whities your all powerful gods.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
alTakruri - You are using fake drawings, just like the White boys do. My, what a pathetic White-ass-kissing, Sand Nigger you turned out to be. Are you related to Hawass?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Is that the best you can do? What a way to admit defeat. Why don't you post up photos disconfirming the Denkmaler? Distemper tantrums neither phase nor move me you tiny hateful Chiuaua. Dismissed!
Here's Mikey all steeled up for another hate tirade. You need to leave that needle **** alone dawg.
And how come you respect d y man, never calling him out his name, but you pejorative blacks et al.? You sho do love and worship you some y man dontcha.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
this is an interesting thread with some well researched images. If any paintings don't fit into Mike111's theories he simply says they are fakes with not one drop of proof that the particular images in question are fake. So it comes down to whatever you don't like it's fake.
On the other hand Mike had a point about something else, that if alTakruri is going to say a "Minoan mural seemingly indicates marriages between NA men and island or N Med women" then why doesn't it apply to many similar depictions in Egyptian portraitures in which there is a reddish brown skinned man married to a light skinned woman? alTakruri tried to point out that in the Minoan example the males and females have different features but in the Egyptian example the features were similar. The features of Seneb and wife are ambiguous, could be African, could be Levantine. I don't see how this affects the drastic differences in skin tone. Some have tried to explain that the women stayed in the house while the men were outside more. But the difference in skin tone seems to drastic for that. In addition these men are not peasant laborers working out in the sun they are government officials or nobles in many cases. Seneb the dwarf above, for example was a high official, head of the royal textile works under King Pepi II in the 6th Dynasty. He was also a priest in the funerary cults of the 4th Dynasty kings Jedefre and Khufu. Let's face it they had a fetish for white women, that's why I don't like these Egyptians, kind of thing still going on today. -same pattern with the Minoans as with the Egyptians, unpleasant but we'll have to deal with it
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^Ha,ha, Lioness - Have the Sand Niggers at the Turkish site "Tour Egypt" re-posted that article again? About eight years ago, they first put it up, but took it down after they realized how stupid it was. "Women lighter because they stayed inside" - Ha,ha,ha. Who but a dumb-assed, race confused, Sand Nigger, with a fuched-up culture, would even think of such a thing? And who but a degenerate idiot like you, would repeat it!
SO TELL ME LIONESS, WHAT ARE WE TO MAKE OF THIS SCENE OF RICH KIDS AT A BANQUET, WHERE THE BOYS AND GIRLS ARE ALL BLACK.
I SWEAR, YOU ALBINOS A JUST WACK!
To be clear for the benefit of the truly stupid. Ancient Egyptian women did NOT wear Burqa's like the current Turkish inhabitants do.
.
Rather, they wore light, cool, and very beautiful clothing, as befitting an intelligent and advanced Black culture.
.
And Egyptian women did NOT stay in the house: The well-off were out-and-about shopping at the market, visiting friends and family and such, just as females in any advanced society do today. The poor women, helped in the fields, just like any poor people would.
.
British museum:
Women in ancient Egypt
Women were involved in jobs like weaving, baking, gardening and farming. Women were responsible for running the household and these activities were extensions of their domestic role. Women could conduct business, own and rent land, inherit property and take part in legal cases with a status equal to that of men. They were also equal partners in a marriage, and had equal rights to divorce.
TO BE CLEAR - THE CURRENT CULTURE IN EGYPT IS AN ABERRATION, BROUGHT IN, NOT BY THE ARABS, BUT BY THE TURKS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EGYPTIANS OR BLACKS. NO BLACK CULTURE ANYWHERE, HAS EVER HAD SUCH A CULTURE.
Lioness, you may be interested to know that the Turks at "Tour Egypt" have taken a new tact. They apparently have decided that the best lie, is one that is mixed with truth. So here is their latest entry.
from TourEgypt:
Breaking the Color Code by Anita Stratos
To the ancient Egyptians, color was an essential part of life. If a god was considered to have no color, then the meaning was that the god could never be thoroughly understood. The magic of color dates back to prehistoric times.
The Egyptian palette had six colors: red (desher), green (wadj), blue (khesbedj and irtiu), yellow (kenit and khenet), black (khem or kem), and white (shesep and hedj).
Green was believed to be the color of new life, growth, vegetation, and fertility.
Red was a powerful color, symbolizing two extremes: Life and victory as well as anger and fire.
Dark blue, also called "Egyptian" blue, was the color of the heavens, water, and the primeval flood, and it represented creation or rebirth.
Yellow designated the eternal and the indestructible, also considered to be qualities of the sun and of gold.
Black symbolized death, the underworld, and the night. We see this reflected in Osiris, who was referred to as "the black one" because he was king of the afterlife, and also with reference to the god of embalming, Anubis, who was portrayed as a black jackal or dog. Because Queen Ahmose-Nefertari was the patroness of the necropolis, she was often shown with black skin.
In a rather unusual about-face, black could also represent fertility and resurrection because of the dark silt left behind by the annual Nile flood. From the most ancient Egyptian times, Egypt was known as Kemet, or "the black land", because of the
dark soil of the Nile Valley; therefore, the color black symbolized Egypt itself. When used to represent resurrection, black and green were interchangeable.
White denoted purity and omnipotence, and because it had no real color, it represented things sacred and simple. White was especially symbolic in the religious objects and ritual tools used by priests.
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