posted
I have a counter-challenge for negrocenrists who think that ancient Egypt is in any sense part of their racial heritage. Like the Egyptians I have been unable to miss the fact that black Africans have a marked prognathism, often so impressive that the lips stick out as far as or even beyond the tip of the nose. The Egyptians frequently atteributed this feature to their black enemies in the south of Nubia. The feature is common across black Africa.
What I challenge anyone to produce are tolerably realistic portraits (or better still the mummified remains) of actual ancient Egyptians (not foreigneres/slaves/envoys/enemies/captives) who demonstrate this feature:
Show me that and I'll be convinced that the Egyptians were substantially black Africans. The profile must be unambiguous, not mulatto-like, the lips at least on a line with the tip of the nose when the head is upright, and well forward of a brow that would ideally be rounded, with a depressed nasal bridge. The nose must be intact in the image or mummy shown.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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quote:I have a counter-challenge for negrocenrists who think that ancient Egypt is in any sense part of their racial heritage. Like the Egyptians I have been unable to miss the fact that black Africans have a marked prognathism, often so impressive that the lips stick out as far as or even beyond the tip of the nose. The Egyptians frequently atteributed this feature to their black enemies in the south of Nubia. The feature is common across black Africa.
Most Egyptian Queens of the 21st dynasty were prognathic... but prognathism has nothing to do with "race" as if it even existed in the first place. See the thread: Euro-centrists and Prognathism are the Bantus whose skulls were examined somehow non-black due to a lack of prognathism or mixed if they were mesognathic? Hell to the no
Furthermore:
quote:As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be **similar to other Egyptians, including much later material** (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the **Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods.**
--(Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
So, the Badarian were extremely prognathic and were generally quite representative of other Egyptian groups.
quote:Show me that and I'll be convinced that the Egyptians were substantially black Africans.
Here is where it get extremely hilarious- you are saying that prognathism is a trait that is on black people, right? But, just the other day you said this:
quote:Originally posted by Rahotep101: If you want to meet black pirates it's a simple matter of going on a yachting holiday anywhere near the Somali coast.
Thereby admitting that Somalis are black? Now the relevance of this is simple:
The Egyptians were more prognathic than Somalis are
So by your standards, I guess the Egyptians were blacker than Somalis
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
KMRT....'hear' this eediat duncehead maamaa bwoy now.
What is a "negrocentrist?"
What is "mulatto-like?"
As far as the "Egyptomaniacs"....lol...that term would be inclusive of yourself, no?
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Calabooz, despite extensive influence from Arabia, you can still find Somalis and Ethiopians with negroid features including lips that stick out beyond their noses, as you can among most sub-saharan peoples: eg: http://www.unhcr.org/thumb1/4a44d7276.jpg
I call self-styled Afriocentrists 'negrocentrists' instead, because north Africans who are sick of having their heritage usurped coined the phrase. Negrocentrists appear to be more interested in claiming civilizations for an imagined pan-African negro race more than anything else. Hence 'Egyptomaniacs', obsession with the race of the Ancient Egyptians and equating it with that of the rest of the coninent. If they think they belong to the same race as the ancient Egyptians, such features as I have described should crop up with some regularity among ancient Egyptians. I'm waiting to see them.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
I'll consider myself pwned when I see a load of ancient Egyptians whose lips that protrude beyond their noses, and not before. Distorted images of Akhenaten and co representing the excesses of the Amarna style won't cut it either, by the way, because there are more naturalistic images where he doesn't have anything like the featres I described, and I specified relative realism.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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quote:Calabooz, despite extensive influence from Arabia, you can still find Somalis and Ethiopians with negroid features including lips that stick out beyond their noses, as you can among most sub-saharan peoples: eg: http://www.unhcr.org/thumb1/4a44d7276.jpg
Influence from Arabia has nothing to do with narrow features as you insinuate. Furthermore, you missed my point entirely. You said that Somalis are black, right? You also maintain that prognathism is a black person trait, even though Egyptians were more prognathic than the Somalis you call black!
quote:I call self-styled Afriocentrists 'negrocentrists' instead, because north Africans who are sick of having their heritage usurped coined the phrase. Negrocentrists appear to be more interested in claiming civilizations for an imagined pan-African negro race more than anything else.
Noone is trying to claim Egyptian civilization here. You're the dumbass white boy who comes here spouting Bullshit about the origins of ancient Egyptian civilization and then has the audacity to name himself as an ancient Egyptians LOL.
quote:Hence 'Egyptomaniacs', obsession with the race of the Ancient Egyptians and equating it with that of the rest of the coninent.
Black isn't a race. And Egyptians DID come from below the Sahara.
quote:If they think they belong to the same race as the ancient Egyptians, such features as I have described should crop up with some regularity among ancient Egyptians. I'm waiting to see them.
I just cited the evidence for you to see for yourself:
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: Furthermore:
quote:As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be **similar to other Egyptians, including much later material** (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the **Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods.**
--(Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
So, the Badarian were extremely prognathic and were generally quite representative of other Egyptian groups.
Read it and weep and consider yourself PWNED
quote:I'll consider myself pwned when I see a load of ancient Egyptians whose lips that protrude beyond their noses, and not before.
Ancient Egyptians aren't alive ahaha! But we do have morphological evidence of which I just posted.
quote:Amarna style won't cut it either, by the way, because there are more naturalistic images where he doesn't have anything like the featres I described, and I specified relative realism.
Art is subjective and open to interpretation. Actual reconstructions of some artwork with a northern phenotype have shown them to more resemble southern Africans
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
I'm feeling the love but I'm not seeing any pictures... Let me see the anceient Egyptian who would lose the skin off his lips before he lost any from his nose if he walked into a frozen lamp post.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I'm feeling the love but I'm not seeing any pictures...
^ visual learner, lacks intellect to grasp concepts. lol
Yep. Who needs books/articles/science when you can preform eyeball anthropology on a pretty picture!
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I was challenged for pictures of groups of light skinned Egyptians, I located dozens without fussing about. If the dynastic ancient Egyptians had primarily negro blood then at least some of them should have had pronounced negroid features the same as all southern African populations. I'm very sorry to see you all failing so miserably to find even a couple of images with the requisite look.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Ancient Egyptians aren't alive and their artwork is highly subjective. I see black and delusional people like you see Armenoid Caucasoids LOL! You can eyeball as you please, I cited my evidence. Just so you know, I won't take this seriously especially since you won't acknowledge scientific evidence. Until then, consider this thread as good as spammed:
-------------------- L Writes: Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I was challenged for pictures of groups of light skinned Egyptians, I located dozens without fussing about. If the dynastic ancient Egyptians had primarily negro blood then at least some of them should have had pronounced negroid features the same as all southern African populations. I'm very sorry to see you all failing so miserably to find even a couple of images with the requisite look.
Ahh but they DO. You dummies probably "ATE" those mummies. Skulls still exist that when measured produce data to prove this point clearly.
quote: As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be **similar to other Egyptians, including much later material** (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the **Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Before I bite, how many pictures will you require?
I would only post pictures just for the fun of the debate but AE people were not Negroes. By enlarge, West African people of Bantu heritage should not claim Egypt as their heritage.
I am not going to do the Samoan to Chinese thing again.
More like Cambodian verses Chinese thing.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I'll consider myself pwned when I see a load of ancient Egyptians whose lips that protrude beyond their noses, and not before. Distorted images of Akhenaten and co representing the excesses of the Amarna style won't cut it either, by the way, because there are more naturalistic images where he doesn't have anything like the featres I described, and I specified relative realism.
The problem is that you think you can determine racial affliation by one physical trait. Any credible cranial analysis takes multiple traits into account to determine a population's racial affinity. You can fixate on single traits like prognathism all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the overall cranial morphology of ancient Egyptians shows that they cluster with Negroids rather than Caucasoids:
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Variation exists within the structure of the biological organism. The very idea of any form of organism or phenotype being unambiguous is absurd.
There is no fixed measurement among the phenotypical variances within the said phenotype like say the level of ones prognathism or the shape of ones nose. We can only argue from a structural viewpoint if we are to accordingly classify as a type.
Moreover, the relationship between black people and Ancient egypt is already there which has been continuously confirmed by several studies including the close relationship between Nubians and Egyptians. Can you inform me on the relationship between the mass majority of orthognathous Pan Europeans and the Dynastic Egyptians?
One cherry-picked archetype isn't going to help you in any way because from a scientific perspective there are still other types which phenotypically group with your specific cherry-picked archetype.
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Osirion, you're an idiot, you know that? Youre just as much as an idiot as the creator of this thread.
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: I would only post pictures just for the fun of the debate but AE people were not Negroes. By enlarge, West African people of Bantu heritage should not claim Egypt as their heritage
But they can claim a shared racial tie to the Egyptians. And as I've just shown earlier in this thread, ancient Egyptians do cluster with Negroids. They may not be identical to West African Negroids, but there is diversity within the Negroid race.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
This is just another aspect of the Caucasus-oid game and only a sucker will play it. Negro-oid demands a true negro but unlike the Caucasus there is no place or topography on earth named Negro hence no such thing as a negro-oid derived from some nonexistant mythical Negro-land epicenter.
In the Caucasus-oid game caucasus-oids are allowed a broad range of features, in fact, every feature you can imagine unless its the one and only and limited monotypic feature allowed a negro or mongol.
We ain't playin' dis game. We blacks have great variety and are certainly not to be defined by sub-nasal prognathism and any other angle is not negro-oid. Who ascribes such non-sense other than outmoded Coon and Baker followers? You know, people just out to rankle with blacks or your so-called friendly white who imagines himself truth centered and disallows the blacks he's in the midst of to define themselves for themselves without white dictation.
At least C & B had sense enough to use African geography like the Congo and the Cape not negro.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I have a counter-challenge for negrocenrists who think that ancient Egypt is in any sense part of their racial heritage. Like the Egyptians I have been unable to miss the fact that black Africans have a marked prognathism, often so impressive that the lips stick out as far as or even beyond the tip of the nose. The Egyptians frequently atteributed this feature to their black enemies in the south of Nubia. The feature is common across black Africa.
What I challenge anyone to produce are tolerably realistic portraits (or better still the mummified remains) of actual ancient Egyptians (not foreigneres/slaves/envoys/enemies/captives) who demonstrate this feature:
Show me that and I'll be convinced that the Egyptians were substantially black Africans. The profile must be unambiguous, not mulatto-like, the lips at least on a line with the tip of the nose when the head is upright, and well forward of a brow that would ideally be rounded, with a depressed nasal bridge. The nose must be intact in the image or mummy shown.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Because you said it better than me I will copy n paste..
"We ain't playin' dis game. We blacks have great variety and are certainly not to be defined by sub-nasal prognathism and any other angle is not negro-oid. Who ascribes such non-sense other than outmoded Coon and Baker followers? You know, people just out to rankle with blacks."
Further Im giving a Call to all serious posters on E.S. The person who created this thread is a Rat, sent here to destroy and degrade Egyptsearch further than what it was. I give a challenge to people to let this person wallow in obsequrity like Argyle and Dirk8. We esp. myself, have given this Whore enough attention, time for us to get back to bis. I.E Bio-Anthorpology and Africana Studies.
There are others here who don't agree with us who are much more subjective, stop feeding the Whore.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: This is just another aspect of the Caucasus-oid game and only a sucker will play it. Negro-oid demands a true negro but unlike the Caucasus there is no place or topography on earth named Negro hence no such thing as a negro-oid derived from some nonexistant mythical Negro-land epicenter.
In the Caucasus-oid game caucasus-oids are allowed a broad range of features, in fact, every feature you can imagine unless its the one and only and limited monotypic feature allowed a negro or mongol.
We ain't playin' dis game. We blacks have great variety and are certainly not to be defined by sub-nasal prognathism and any other angle is not negro-oid. Who ascribes such non-sense other than outmoded Coon and Baker followers? You know, people just out to rankle with blacks.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I've been called names when I've fulfilled challenges for pictures, and called names when I issue challenges for pictures which no one can fulfill. Sticks and stones... I've seen kangeroos and kick-boxers so far but not one of these much-vaunted 'classical African' Egyptians. Not one mummy that fits the bill, not one statue, not one painting of a native Egyptian with lips pushing forward of the nose tip and a depressed nasal bridge. As yet, I'm so not pwned. I asked for pictures. If you have no pictures, keep out of this thread. If you haven't got a picture to show you're only flaunting your fail by trying to contribute anything else. Take that elsewhere.
I've seen a lot of captives and enemies with the features I spoke of getting pwned by Egyptians in Egyptian pictures, or bringing tribute to escape further pwnage. It's not like Egyptians were incapable of drawing negroids.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Rahotep is so phucking dumb. This challenge is the dumbest ever. Prognathism is not defined as the projection of the lower face further than ones nose. Either one is prognathic or not. Here, how about your produce this one, as an example how idiotic your request is: how about you produce ancient Greek paintings with concave (inward projecting) faces, to show how ortochnathic (read European) they were. Screw vertical facial profiles, I want to see concave profiles, only then will I believe they were Europeans!!
Excavated in a shaft with another head, this one was originally identified as the Nubian wife of the tomb owner. Recent study, however, suggests that it probably represents the male owner of the tomb. Although the face has affinities with later depictions of Nubians, it also bears a striking resemblance to statues of Fourth Dynasty kings and undoubtedly represents an Egyptian. The variations among reserve heads probably reflect the diversity in Egypt's population.
The Old Kingdom 'reserve head' carving shown from the front by ausar is the most negroid of a very caucasoid bunch, but the lips still fall way short of the nose tip, as rhe profile seen here (lower corner) shows...
Swenet's sphinx offerings lack a nose, so that's a fail.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
How many of your so-called true negroids have their lips extending further than their nose? You can't see that the heads of the Nubians are tilted? The Egyptians I have posted are just as prognathic as the Nubians in your picture ensemble, as a matter of fact, only 5/12 (42%) individuals from your picture match the criteria of your OP. The two lefthand women, two of the left hand Nubians, and perhaps the man with the headgear below that. If the other pics qualify, everything I've posted qualifies. Plain and simple.
posted
As a matter of fact, make that 4/12, as I can't find a book of gates seti I original where Nubians have their lips projecting further than their nose. Its also not visible what that blob on that guys face is. Direct me to the original please.
The two women and the man with the headgear are not Northeast Africans, so their inclusion is pretty much a strawman. When all is said and done, you have 1/12 useable Africans in that picture, of whom it can be said at present that they have their lips projecting forward further than their nose.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: I would only post pictures just for the fun of the debate but AE people were not Negroes. By enlarge, West African people of Bantu heritage should not claim Egypt as their heritage
But they can claim a shared racial tie to the Egyptians. And as I've just shown earlier in this thread, ancient Egyptians do cluster with Negroids. They may not be identical to West African Negroids, but there is diversity within the Negroid race.
Race? What is that? Do you mean recent common ancestor? If so then I agree.
Like I said - Bantu = Cambodian Egypt = Chinese.
Cambodians and Chinese are both Orientals.
Bantu and Egyptians are both somewhat related Africans.
However - to me Negro means Niger/Congo and Egyptians are not that. Egyptians are more properly similar to Cushitic people well before they are related to Niger/Congo.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Chinese and Cambodians are bother Orientals. It is for the most part rather easy to tell them apart. Cambodians have more tropical adaptation and the same with the Bantu.
Cambodians have a more Negroid appearance to them (humidity) and high fructose diet.
Prognathism is a normal characteristic found in all populations. It does not mean "Negro" any more than orthognathism means "Caucasoid." An aboriginal African skeletal population may be orthognathic without indicating "Hamitic" migrations; Egyptians may be prognathic without implying "Negro" penetration;and a single population may have (should have) both prognathic and orthognathic individuals without being considered a "mixed" population.
More on Skeletal Analysis and the Race Concept Author(s): John H. RobertsonSource: Current Anthropology, Vol. 20, No. 3 (Sep., 1979), pp. 617-619Published by: The University of Chicago Press on behalf of Wenner-Gren Foundation for AnthropologicalResearchStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2742137 .Accessed: 26/12/2010 09:27
quote:As a result of their facial prognathism,[/b] the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be **similar to other Egyptians, including much later material** (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the **Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods.**--(Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
So, the Badarian were extremely prognathic and were generally quite representative of other Egyptian groups.
I don't see the word "extremely prognathic" in any of the aforementioned text, and neither do you.
Badarian prognathism fits comfortably within the range of Western Eurasians therefore having affinities with Western Eurasians, not with Sub-Saharan Africans.
"The results presented herein suggest that the features relating to frontal and facial flatness are largely confined to populations from differing world regions: 1) the considerable flatness of the faces of east/northeast Asians, and to a lesser extent, of southeast Asians; 2) morphological complexes such as a deep infraglabellar notch and sagittally flat frontal bone with facial prognathism in Australians and Melanesians; 3) rounded forehead comparable to that in northeast Asians and transversely projecting faces as in Europeans found in the New World populations; 4) eastern Asian-like features in Polynesians and Micronesians, except for a projecting zygomaxillary region; 5) midfacial projection without prognathism in Europeans and related populations such as south and west Asians as well as north Africans; and 6) remarkable prognathism and very flat nasal bones in SubSaharan Africans."HANIHARA 2000
quote:Here is where it get extremely hilarious- you are saying that prognathism is a trait that is on black people, right? But, just the other day you said this:
You very well know, it takes more than one trait to determine race.
quote:Originally posted by Rahotep101: If you want to meet black pirates it's a simple matter of going on a yachting holiday anywhere near the Somali coast.
Thereby admitting that Somalis are black? Now the relevance of this is simple:
The Egyptians were more prognathic than Somalis are
So because Rahotep uses the phrase "black pirates" that somehow determines ancient Egyptians supposed "blackness"? WOW! Some logic! There is no relevance to your "argument", it's irrelevant. And laughably so.
quote:So by your standards, I guess the Egyptians were blacker than Somalis [/QB]
Nowhere does Rahotep make the claim for Egyptians being "black" yet here you are, arguing for the supposed "blackness" of ancient Egypt, when you yourself claim to not believe in race. Strange.
What this is, is just another case of an Afrocentric putting twisted words in peoples mouths. Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2011
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quote:Post the study and make sure it differentiates which type of prognathism.
Sure thing:
"Dental Alveolar prognathism, an inherited trait, which is normal for Nubian people, ancient and modern, may be observed in Pharaohs Thutmose I, Thutmose II, Siptah and Merenptah, and most of the queens of the 21st dynasty (fig. 9. 10)."--James E. Harris and Edward F. Wente (An X-Ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies)
quote:Then why are you so conscience of it? Recalling:
When I said "dumbass white boy" it had nothing to do with the issue of prognathism. Quoting in context is a necessary skill for posters at ES. I was referring to his claims on origins of Egyptian civilization
quote:As per your link:
Prognathism is a normal characteristic found in all populations. It does not mean "Negro" any more than orthognathism means "Caucasoid." An aboriginal African skeletal population may be orthognathic without indicating "Hamitic" migrations; Egyptians may be prognathic without implying "Negro" penetration;and a single population may have (should have) both prognathic and orthognathic individuals without being considered a "mixed" population.
More on Skeletal Analysis and the Race Concept Author(s): John H. RobertsonSource: Current Anthropology, Vol. 20, No. 3 (Sep., 1979), pp. 617-619Published by: The University of Chicago Press on behalf of Wenner-Gren Foundation for AnthropologicalResearchStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2742137 .Accessed: 26/12/2010 09:27
What's your point? Of course prognathism can be observed without having been influenced by another populations, so? Even though we do know southern groups populated the Nile Valley in the first place... the same thing goes for narrow profiles- i.e., that they need not have been influenced by another population.
quote:I don't see the word "extremely prognathic" in any of the aforementioned text, and neither do you.
No, those words exactly aren't in the text. I'll reword that:
The Badarian had marked prognathism
Happy?
quote:Badarian prognathism fits comfortably within the range of Western Eurasians therefore having affinities with Western Eurasians, not with Sub-Saharan Africans.
LOL! Dude, this is so fricken hilarious, sorry but no read again:
"As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990)."--Zakrzewski (2007)
Tell me where in the above are West Eurasians mentioned exactly?
quote:"The results presented herein suggest that the features relating to frontal and facial flatness are largely confined to populations from differing world regions: 1) the considerable flatness of the faces of east/northeast Asians, and to a lesser extent, of southeast Asians; 2) morphological complexes such as a deep infraglabellar notch and sagittally flat frontal bone with facial prognathism in Australians and Melanesians; 3) rounded forehead comparable to that in northeast Asians and transversely projecting faces as in Europeans found in the New World populations; 4) eastern Asian-like features in Polynesians and Micronesians, except for a projecting zygomaxillary region; 5) midfacial projection without prognathism in Europeans and related populations such as south and west Asians as well as north Africans; and 6) remarkable prognathism and very flat nasal bones in SubSaharan Africans."HANIHARA 2000
Thanks for bringing this up as this is the very study that shows Egyptians to be more prognathic than Somalis. How does this change the fact that, as a result of their prognathism, Badarians have been described as forming morphological cluster with southern and I'll repeat southern groups? Moving on to the Somali thing:
quote:So because Rahotep uses the phrase "black pirates" that somehow determines ancient Egyptians supposed "blackness"? WOW! Some logic! There is no relevance to your "argument", it's irrelevant. And laughably so.
Obviously- you are an idiot. The logic being this:
A. Rahotep attributes Prognathism to "black people"
B. His statement admits he considers Somalis "black". Not just because he uses the term black pirates, but because he describes black pirates "anywhere near the Somali coast"
C. If the Egyptians were more Prognathic than the Somalis, the latter of which Rahotep says were black, and he attributes Prognathism to black people whom he also attribute "Negroid" terminology to, than the Egyptians being more prognathic than the Somalis would be more "black" then the Somalis.
However, this is using Rahotep's words. My point is that Prognathism does NOT determine "Negroidness" just as Orthognathism is not a "Caucasoid" trait.
quote:Nowhere does Rahotep make the claim for Egyptians being "black"
Never said he did. But using his words and methodology, the Egyptians would be more "Negroid" than Somalis. See above
quote:yet here you are, arguing for the supposed "blackness" of ancient Egypt, when you yourself claim to not believe in race. Strange.
Is black a race? I don't think so. It only describes skin color and seeing as how the Egyptians body proportions hint at ancestry in the tropics where intense UV radiation would have resulted in substantial intensification, they would have been dark-skinned based on ecological principles. So the term black isn't out of the question.
quote:What this is, is just another case of an Afrocentric putting twisted words in peoples mouths.
I said
"So by your standards"
Meaning- using Rahotep101's logic. I never said that he specifically said that. Just exposing how contradictory his statements have been. You know it's true though Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: The question in it self already is stupid, since the African pop is diverse and not all have prognathism. Or in the same amount.
The image of two bothers, one has the other has not.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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