This is topic Why do Afro-Nuts continuously post their Bullshit across the internet? in forum Deshret at EgyptSearch Forums.


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Posted by White Nord (Member # 14093) on :
 
It seems like every forum that I step into some Afro-nut feels that they must spout their ignorant bullshit. I was just recently about to sign up for the Historum forum when some raving nut was bitching about a black African Egypt. Fucking disgusting! Then the fucker throws a temper tantrum because the moderators made the right decision by putting his bullshit in the fake history sub forum LOL. If no one will accept your bullshit then why even fucking bother.
 

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Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
 
LOL!! Afronuts are crying out to the world in hopes someone will give ear to their self-hating madness.
 

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Posted by White Nord (Member # 14093) on :
 
lol exactly they need to just drop their lies and go out and get real jobs!
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 
They are losers. Low self-esteem niggers.
 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That will not be forgotten


 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
Even though he is correct, there is no need for him to post the same stuff on every single forum out there (indeed, this individual has been on numerois forums with the same information). Even ones that have nothing to do with bio-anthropology, no surprise he got so many ignorant responses.
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Really, I got so sick of all the stupid 'Egypt was black' comments on everything on youtube to do with Egypt that I started making videos arguing against this. I imagine it must be annoying for actual Egyptians to have people in other countries (mostly the US, it must be said) whose ancestors ostensibly had no connection to Egypt, posing as though they had more right to Egypt's legacy than actual Egyptians. Some of them are very rude and abusive about it, too, these Afrocentrists. They've convinced themselves that modern Egyptians are in league with the white man's propaganda machine.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Birds of a feather flock together, because their tender pink asses can't handle it with others.
That is what is called "making the world safe for the white man".
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Hey Mike, how's that Sistine Chapel ceiling coming along? You missed a bit...
 

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Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
 
^Excuse him, rahotep. Mike has cataracts.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Rahotp

quote:

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Really, I got so sick of all the stupid 'Egypt was black' comments on everything on youtube to do with Egypt that I started making videos arguing against this. I imagine it must be annoying for actual Egyptians to have people in other countries (mostly the US, it must be said) whose ancestors ostensibly had no connection to Egypt, posing as though they had more right to Egypt's legacy than actual Egyptians. Some of them are very rude and abusive about it, too, these Afrocentrists. They've convinced themselves that modern Egyptians are in league with the white man's propaganda machine.

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Really?? tell that to this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJ0F299kFQ&feature=related
Or her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtWLry9o70c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzCsGdH_gQ8&feature=related
Statements made by Egyptians about Kemet.
 

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Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
Brada-Anansi

Take em to school Brada. Jahmekya Soldier taking the racists to task.

Love that video with Arabi.

Peace
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
*yawn*

Another retarded thread that is self-therapeutic psychological projection by a Euronut.

If the concept of ancient Egypt being black African is such "bullsh|t" then why have any of you jerk-offs been unable to refute it??

We've posted countless studies from mainstream scholars from archaeologists, linguistics, and physical anthropologists and geneticists alike.

You can see a summary of the evidence here and yet not any piece fails to be refuted. Why is that??

Can any White Nerds and Confirmed Nuts and others usurping African names refute any of these tidbits alone?

Abbas S. Mohammed-Ali1, and Abdel-Rahim M. Khabir
African Archaeological Review, Vol. 20, No. 1, March 2003
From the chronological standpoint, it seems that the overall radiometric dates of the early ceramics from the Central Nile Valley are generally in accordance with their counterpart in the Sahara-Sahel Belt, dated to the tenth–eighth millennium bp. (eighth–sixth millenium BC). These dates may suggest that pottery developed locally from early prototypes as early as 10,000 bp. The origin(s) of the wavy line and dotted wavy line ceramics is much more complex than was once thought. The reason(s) behind the invention of pottery lies mainly in the need for containers that permit wider uses of food techniques than is otherwise possible, as well as other different sets of advantages for the general mode of living (Arnold, 1985, pp. 127–166). The invention of pottery and harpoons are critical events in the process that led to the expansion of aquatic resource exploitation, as is manifested in the Nile Valley (see supra; Haaland, 1995; Sutton, 1974, pp. 529–531). Also, the Sahara-Sahel Belt might have only opened up for the kind of resource exploitation that necessitates the invention of ceramics by the early Holocene (see Clark, 1980; Hassan, 1986).


The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.--Joseph O. Vogel (1997)

On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations (Morant, 1935 G. Morant, A study of predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari based on measurements taken by Miss BN Stoessiger and Professor DE Derry, Biometrika 27 (1935), pp. 293–309.Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. (Hassan, 1986) and (Hassan, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990).-- Godde (2009)

"During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. .. Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
--(A-M Mekota and M Vermehren. (2005) Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues. Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, Vol. 80, No. 1, Pages 7-13











 

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Posted by White Nord (Member # 14093) on :
 
To add insult to injury the Afrocentric on historum just got refuted using one of those same fucking sources from that Afrocentric database. This seems to happen everytime Afrocentric ventures out of Egyptsearch and post around logical and sound minded people. Just goes to show that they are truely clowns.
 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
^Which source refuted which claim?
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
"Venture out of Egyptsearch"

Bitch if you can debunk us outside Egyptsearch you can debunk us here. Your ass gets shut down by Zarahan et al. everythime you try to post your B.S which is why you resorted to whining about "Afrocentrics" instead of trying to debate.

Honestly why are people even giving this clown any attention..??
 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
Oh... after skimming the the thread I found out what you mean. The guy who responded to LouisVille/TheInventor poster really is clueless. Obviously he has no idea how to interpret the results of Rosa et al. study. He used cherry picked quotes that have nothing to do with Northeast Africans. I mean, wtf do northwest Berbers have to do with Egyptians?! Especially when Siwa (Egyptian) Berbers are differentiated from northwest Berbers THEY HAVE NO U6! But the best part is that they DO have M1 suggesting an affinity to East Africans. Furthermore, if I recall correctly, the Egyptians from Rosa et al. chart cluster with East Africans based on E1b1b1. The overall significance of this is that both M1 AND E1b1b1 originate in sub-Saharan East Africa and they indicate a major population source for the Nile Valley. To make matters worse, if you people actually read the study of Rosa et al. you would see that she goes on to mention a little thing called common origin

Then this guy posts a quote that West Africans have experience little gene flow from North and East Africa, SO WHAT? That doesn't mean East and North Africa didn't experience gene flow from west Africa and they did as signified by the presence of E-M2 in north Africa reaching 90% in some studies (see the discussion in Keita, 2005). I mean really...
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
I like how the biggest Sh@t talkers on this site are the most debunked.

Rahotep I can't even count how many studies and evidence has debunked your rants, from your constant psycobabble about the Egyptians being the same as the ancients to your ducking and dodging the Rual Upper Egyptian and pretending that the Delta and Ciarian Egyptians are some how unmixed but the Upper Egyptians are darker because of slaves.

Your Now and Later ass Corner store Videos are a joke to say the least. You stay willfully ignorant ignoring every beatdown.


__________________________________________________________________

White Nord, its rather funny a White High I.Q European such as yourself so obssed all these years with Egypt. Whats wrong boy your White Boy ancestors could'nt create anything as sophisticated as Egypt which is why you spend so much time trying to claim Ethiopians and others as part of your so called race only to get your ass smacked down and catching Ghost for 5-6 months only to come back bitching and whining about Afrocentrics.

Don't make me get Zarahan on your ass...LOL.

___________________________________________________

Parahue bitch I don't even need to waste my time posting on you, with your House servant ass. Bitch go pray at your mosque and read your Koran, you're a joke kid.

Now and later ass. LOL
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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I don't see anything particularly Negroid about this man's facial features. Look at his high-rooted long nose. A classical Caucasoid feature.

You need to be reminded how Negroids look like:


 

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Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Perahu:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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I don't see anything particularly Negroid about this man's facial features. Look at his high-rooted long nose. A classical Caucasoid feature.

You need to be reminded how Negroids look like:

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Interestingly they both have the same skin tone. Now show a group of Modern Egyptians with that skin tone that are not what we call a "Black People"
 

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Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
I like how the biggest Sh@t talkers on this site are the most debunked.

Rahotep I can't even count how many studies and evidence has debunked your rants, from your constant psycobabble about the Egyptians being the same as the ancients to your ducking and dodging the Rual Upper Egyptian and pretending that the Delta and Ciarian Egyptians are some how unmixed but the Upper Egyptians are darker because of slaves.

Your Now and Later ass Corner store Videos are a joke to say the least. You stay willfully ignorant ignoring every beatdown.


__________________________________________________________________

White Nord, its rather funny a White High I.Q European such as yourself so obssed all these years with Egypt. Whats wrong boy your White Boy ancestors could'nt create anything as sophisticated as Egypt which is why you spend so much time trying to claim Ethiopians and others as part of your so called race only to get your ass smacked down and catching Ghost for 5-6 months only to come back bitching and whining about Afrocentrics.

Don't make me get Zarahan on your ass...LOL.

___________________________________________________

Parahue bitch I don't even need to waste my time posting on you, with your House servant ass. Bitch go pray at your mosque and read your Koran, you're a joke kid.

Now and later ass. LOL

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quote:

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...you spend so much time trying to claim Ethiopians and others as part of your so called race...

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Greetings.

What is so sad and hilarious about that is this: they claim them as part of their race, but at the same time, where would those same Ethiopians have been forced to sit on a bus in 1950s U.S.; I am quite sure those same Ethiopians they claim as part of their race would NOT have been allowed to drink outta 'whites only' water fountains here in the U.S. nor be served at Southern lunch counters during that same time period, and we know what would've happened if one of those same Ethiopian men they claim as part of their race had kissed a 'white' gyal in the middle of a main street of any Whitesville at high noon....

by these same 'white' supremists who claim Ethiopians and these others are a part of their 'race'....

they ('White' People) change the definition of 'race' to suit their needs....and the historical facts of immigration in this country are but one example of that...lol...


KMRT....
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Afrocentric spam recipe: trawl through google until you find a few black-looking ancient Egyptians and ignore all the other images. Crop out any light coloured females, pretend symbolically jet-black gods are black people, serve with whining.
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:

quote:

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Originally posted by Perahu:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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I don't see anything particularly Negroid about this man's facial features. Look at his high-rooted long nose. A classical Caucasoid feature.

You need to be reminded how Negroids look like:

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Interestingly they both have the same skin tone. Now show a group of Modern Egyptians with that skin tone that are not what we call a "Black People"

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They don't have the skin tone, the ancient Egyptian has a red-brown skin tone, the negro has a dark dull brown colour. And these are the darkest Egyptian images you can find, after a deliberately selective trawl. Pathetic! It couldn't be easier to find modern Egyptians the same colour as the ancients who are clearly not negro people. Negrocentrists who want to claim Egypt are just self-hating inadequates who are embarrassed by their own ancestry and who want to steal someone else's in order to have a bit of glory and glamour. Arrogant snobs and deniers of truth. They are an insult to their own race and to humanity in general.




 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
^What a clown you are.
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by astenb:
Interestingly they both have the same skin tone. Now show a group of Modern Egyptians with that skin tone that are not what we call a "Black People"

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quote:

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Originally posted by rahotep101:
Negrocentrists who want to claim Egypt are just self-hating inadequates who are embarrassed by their own ancestry and who want to steal someone else's in order to have a bit of glory and glamour. Arrogant snobs and deniers of truth. They are an insult to their own race and to humanity in general.

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Well said.
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Truth hurt, Calabozo?
 

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Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
 
I also notice a tendency for adherents of stromfront to contaminate various message boards,urban dictionary and wikipedia with assorted writings from March of the Titans. Its very annoying when stromfront posters and other racialists want to turn ancient Egypt into apartheid southern Africa.

I have to hand it to them Kempians they are different more covert with their profaganda than many Afrocentrists.
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
What a F-king hypocrite. Was is not your English Muffin Grey Puppon ass that came here talking about the Upper Egyptians were darkened by slaves. When have you ever made one of your corner store collages and corner store videos giving the black Egyptians credit for Egypt. Not one denies the light skinned Egyptians are decendants of the Ancient, but in Ancient Times the dominant phenotype is what is found in Luxor, Aswan, Kom Ombos etc.

You Hypocritical moaning and whining wont change the facts.

quote:

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Originally posted by rahotep101:
Afrocentric spam recipe: trawl through google until you find a few black-looking ancient Egyptians and ignore all the other images. Crop out any light coloured females, pretend symbolically jet-black gods are black people, serve with whining.

---

 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
This is probably the best image you have ever posted, good work Watson, finally starting to post Dark Skinned Egyptians..

More Representation of Egyptian Reddish Brown

quote:

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Originally posted by rahotep101:




[/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by rahotep101:
The fact remains that dark Egyptians are more closely related to light Egyptians than to sub-saharan Africans, or to anyone else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by White Nerd:

To add insult to injury the Afrocentric on historum just got refuted using one of those same fucking sources from that Afrocentric database. This seems to happen everytime Afrocentric ventures out of Egyptsearch and post around logical and sound minded people. Just goes to show that they are truely clowns.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Calabooz':

Oh... after skimming the the thread I found out what you mean. The guy who responded to LouisVille/TheInventor poster really is clueless. Obviously he has no idea how to interpret the results of Rosa et al. study. He used cherry picked quotes that have nothing to do with Northeast Africans. I mean, wtf do northwest Berbers have to do with Egyptians?! Especially when Siwa (Egyptian) Berbers are differentiated from northwest Berbers THEY HAVE NO U6! But the best part is that they DO have M1 suggesting an affinity to East Africans. Furthermore, if I recall correctly, the Egyptians from Rosa et al. chart cluster with East Africans based on E1b1b1. The overall significance of this is that both M1 AND E1b1b1 originate in sub-Saharan East Africa and they indicate a major population source for the Nile Valley. To make matters worse, if you people actually read the study of Rosa et al. you would see that she goes on to mention a little thing called common origin

Then this guy posts a quote that West Africans have experience little gene flow from North and East Africa, SO WHAT? That doesn't mean East and North Africa didn't experience gene flow from west Africa and they did as signified by the presence of E-M2 in north Africa reaching 90% in some studies (see the discussion in Keita, 2005). I mean really...

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quote:

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Truth hurt, Calabozo?

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quote:

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The fact remains that dark Egyptians are more closely related to light Egyptians than to sub-saharan Africans, or to anyone else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Calabooz':
Not true, not true at all. Upper Egyptians show an affinity to East Africans based on the frequency of M1 and E subclades. Lower Egyptians on the other hand are more admixed. Face it, you were unable to address the genetic data we gave you here

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quote:

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Haplogroup frequency differences between Upper Egyptians and Lower Egyptians are not *THAT* great. They are essentially the *SAME* population, closer to each other than to foreigners.

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Dude, please try to comprehend what you are reading. Going by haplogroup frequencies, lower Egyptians have higher Eurasian haplogroup frequencies and lower level of African HGs. the same exact thing I said. In the north you see a higher level of southern haplotypes whereas in the north you see a lower level of southern haplotypes. For certain haplogroups that is. Can't exactly recall mtDNA studies done on Lower Egyptians, but upper Egyptian mtDNA shows affinities to East Africans suggesting that they populated the Nile Valley.

As I said, lower Egyptians are more admixed, Upper Egyptians show affinities to East Africans.
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 
Rahotep said 'darker' Egyptians (presumably upper Egyptians) and 'lighter' Egyptians (presumably lower Egyptians) are closer to each other than to others. You responded with ''Not true, not true at all'', and use the minor differences in HG frequencies as evidence.

Calabooz' you are an effin' amateur, seriously.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pair'ohuy:



I don't see anything particularly Negroid about this man's facial features. Look at his high-rooted long nose. A classical Caucasoid feature.

You need to be reminded how Negroids look like:

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LOL Typical Euronut response. So "negroids" can only have certain features but not "caucasoids"??

So these people with wide low root noses are all not caucasian, right?








But these people are??





LOL
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^
I was under the impression that Upper Egyptians are closer to Lower Egyptians and then Nubians, I think Calabooz is saying that Lower Egyptians are more mixed but I thought they were still the closest to Upper Egyptians.

BTW are not Mixed Egyptians still predominantly African genetically..
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL Typical Euronut response. So "negroids" can only have certain features but not "caucasoids"??

So these people with wide low root noses are all not caucasian, right?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061231142243/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/0/0c/Socrates2.jpg/200px-Socrates2.jpg

http://www.blog.peacemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/untitled-0-00-02-12-590x331.jpg

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/ohjelmat/idols_2007/semifinaaliennakot/413277.jpg


But these people are??





LOL

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL Typical Euronut response. So "negroids" can only have certain features but not "caucasoids"??

So these people with wide low root noses are all not caucasian, right?



LOL

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quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^
I was under the impression that Upper Egyptians are closer to Lower Egyptians and then Nubians,

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quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^^
Ok so please post when any of us have said the Dark Egyptians are more related to "Sub Sahrans" over the Light Egyptians. The makes no sense,

The Nubians are the closest culturally and ethnically to Egyptians but I dont see you giving them any credit.

The fact is that the Dark Egyptians get ZERO credit for Ancient Egypt, when in fact looking at Royal Tombs and Art and Sculpture, genetics, etc. they played a vital Role. The only time Ive seen Dark Egyptians get their due respect was on "Engineering an Empire", "Rome", and "Prince of Egypt".

If you really cared about the denial of Modern Egyptians their culture you would be more upset at the denial of Dark Egyptian rather than your usual atempts to uplift the Delata Egyptians. If you really cared you would at lease make some attempt to give the Black egyptians credit.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DaHo1000:

Afrocentric spam recipe: trawl through google until you find a few black-looking ancient Egyptians and ignore all the other images. Crop out any light coloured females, pretend symbolically jet-black gods are black people, serve with whining.

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quote:

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They don't have the skin tone, the ancient Egyptian has a red-brown skin tone, the negro has a dark dull brown colour. And these are the darkest Egyptian images you can find, after a deliberately selective trawl. Pathetic! It couldn't be easier to find modern Egyptians the same colour as the ancients who are clearly not negro people. Negrocentrists who want to claim Egypt are just self-hating inadequates who are embarrassed by their own ancestry and who want to steal someone else's in order to have a bit of glory and glamour. Arrogant snobs and deniers of truth. They are an insult to their own race and to humanity in general.

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So the modern Egyptian man in the right is not black but a Mediterranean caucasoid then?! LOL

So I guess the same is true with these men

quote:

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quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^
I was under the impression that Upper Egyptians are closer to Lower Egyptians and then Nubians, I think Calabooz is saying that Lower Egyptians are more mixed but I thought they were still the closest to Upper Egyptians.

BTW are not Mixed Egyptians still predominantly African genetically..

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pair'ohuy:





*Fail*. These are somewhere between 40-60% Eurasian. They are not authentic Negroids.

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LMAO Sure they are. You said the same thing about Bantu Tutsi and Hima and Nilo-Saharan Hema! Keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better. Remember make-believe is your game while REALITY is ours!

quote:

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You would be hard pressed finding a native from Gabon, Ghana, or the Congo with such features.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DaHoisDum101:

I'm not particularly familiar with stormfront. I've no time for white supremacism. The irony is most of these white-nationalist twits think Hitler was something good, when actually his madness unleashed one of the greatest slaughters of whites that there's ever been.

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So there exist some semblance of logic within you.

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Technically, I'm a cultural nationalist. I don't care what colour someone is as long as they conform to the prevailing values of the society they find themselves among. (I suspect a similar attitude prevailed in Ancient Egypt, as they were more concerned with culture than race). I don't care if people want to marry outside their race. Racial purity is bullshit. I have black members of my own extended family.

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quote:

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I don't care about being called 'racist' by black-supremacist retards who think blacks can't be racist, or who seem to equate racism with denying the blackness of Egypt. The term is devalued to the point of meaninglessness when they use it. It only insults all those who who have been the victims of real racial discrimination.

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quote:

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The fact remains that dark Egyptians are more closely related to light Egyptians than to sub-saharan Africans, or to anyone else.

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quote:

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Rahotep said 'darker' Egyptians (presumably upper Egyptians) and 'lighter' Egyptians (presumably lower Egyptians) are closer to each other than to others. You responded with ''Not true, not true at all'', and use the minor differences in HG frequencies as evidence.

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quote:

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BTW are not Mixed Egyptians still predominantly African genetically..

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
If I did you would no doubt dismiss them as "Eurasian" admixed also! LOL You are a pathetic joke!

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quote:

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Only North, Saharan, and East Africans are racially impure and admixed with Eurasian Caucasoids.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Calabooz':
Where did he get that idea then? He has never read a genetic article in his life, neither have you for that matter. Upper Egyptian gene frequencies are more similar to those of Sudanese populations.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paironuts:

This is like arguing with a Chink that feature X is common in Mongoloid peoples. The Chink responds back by showing Central Asian Caucasoid admixed ''Mongoloids'' to prove that feature X is not common in Mongoloids.

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quote:

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Pure fail.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

This is probably the best image you have ever posted, good work Watson, finally starting to post Dark Skinned Egyptians..

More Representation of Egyptian Reddish Brown

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^ All "Mediterraneans" according to DaDumHo. LOL
 

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Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
 
How do you jump from "Egyptians are completely Caucasoid" to "Egyptians are 17% sub-Saharan"? Clearly one source contradicts the other yet he relies on which ever one is convenient for the argument.

So much stupidity and inconsistency with this clown, Perahu. It's about time we stop taking this guy seriously. Admittedly I thought that when he first appeared that he'd be a challenge but it was quickly revealed to me that this guy is even dumber and less educated than our other resident trolls.

Nitpicking over percentages amounts to nothing when one third of the European genome to begin with is derived from early upper paleolithic Africa. Add to this the fact that Egyptians partially descend from Horners (Klivisid found Egyptian mtDNA frequencies to be most similar to Eritreans) who all post-OOA descendants likely share DNA with coupled with the fact that recent migrations/relationships may have diluted this Horner affinity (Stevanovitch, 2004) and his racial agenda is exposed.

Europeans are mixed hybrids who have no unique claims of influence over African diversity since they are more influenced by Africans than vice versa.

These race arguments are beginning to get weak as hell. I'm telling you guys, since Euros do not comprise a primary population set, they are totally irrelevant. We need to stop putting these trolls on a pedestal and I apologize for perpetuating it as well. As Dr. Clarke said, you should only debate your equals. I think that myself and others may benefit a lot from that idea.
 

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Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundjata:
Europeans are mixed hybrids who have no unique claims of influence over African diversity since they are more influenced by Africans than vice versa.

---

Outdated bullshit. I have had it with these Negrocentric lies.

The latest complete genomic sequence data tell a completely different story:



---- Reich et al. 2010
 

---

Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ All "Mediterraneans" according to DaDumHo. LOL

---

Why do you keep posting people who look visibly more Caucasoid than Negroid?
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Djehuti The idea of the dark Egyptians being more 'pristine' only reflects your own ethnic chauvinism. It has no basis in historical fact. Old Kingdom Egyptian images reveal the same range of phenotypes as is found in modern Egypt, including as many individuals that would pass for white as for black. There is no fundamental racial discontinuity from the old kingdom to the late period and beyond. What black African population would ever represent itself thus? If most of these are black then I am! If these are not caucasians then there are none.


 

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Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
 
but modern egyptians are mixed with alot of other people
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
And the people modern Egyptians are mixed with are not all from the North and East.
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Sundjata

quote:

---

These race arguments are beginning to get weak as hell. I'm telling you guys, since Euros do not comprise a primary population set, they are totally irrelevant. We need to stop putting these trolls on a pedestal and I apologize for perpetuating it as well.

---

Well its about time i have said over and over again they show up and bog this place down with race talk a concept that gets no respect from any biologist or bio anthropologist and because race is such an ill defined concept they can at-lest have most responders running around in circles keeping their minds off more tangible evidence like cultural relatedness the biological is just one part of the puzzle, facial features is their favorite pastime not this.

These are the things they ran away from for every time they are faced with the above they get bitched slapped.
 

---

Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
 
nice post brad

rahotep still hasnt explained the further you go back in their history why ancient egyptians look like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-StatueHead_BrooklynMuseum.png
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

Aruging over which of these gentlemen look more like a Nigerian is pointless as they are both Kemetians an ancient African civilization.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaDummy101:

Djehuti The idea of the dark Egyptians being more 'pristine' only reflects your own ethnic chauvinism. It has no basis in historical fact...

---

quote:

---

Old Kingdom Egyptian images reveal the same range of phenotypes as is found in modern Egypt, including as many individuals that would pass for white as for black. There is no fundamental racial discontinuity from the old kingdom to the late period and beyond. What black African population would ever represent itself thus? If most of these are black then I am! If these are not caucasians then there are none.

---

LMAO I find it hilarious that you accuse of "trawling" through google pics and being selective. When your collages obviously represent images where either the paint is worn off OR women who were simply depicted in the conventional symbolic yellow.

You speak of the Old Kingdom, yet why do you never show portraits with preserved paint like this











Yes there was a range of phenotype, in particular color where Egyptians in the south tended to be darker i.e. mahogany to milk-chocolate in complexion with those in the north being hazel to caramel in complexion.





As for YOU claiming to look Egyptian and claiming the presence of "caucasians" you are obviously fooled by the very designation of "caucasian" which is an anthropologically defunct term. How many times do we have to tell you that not only Egyptians were put in that category but their close relatives-- Beja, Nubians, Ethiopians and Somalis. Why do you think your partner Paironuts insists these peoples even people in Central Africa are "Eurasian" admixed just because they all share the same so-called "caucasoid" features?? What about people in Europe who have "negroid" features??
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Djehuti for get Negroid features how about African Dna


Abstract: HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ
allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time
determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The
following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the
‘‘older’’ Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North
Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically
close Greeks, who do not belong to the ‘‘older’’ Mediterranenan substratum,
3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups . Both
Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305,
*0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310.
Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster
with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and
correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might
have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.
http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf
All in the family ah guess... now who is u papi..
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Brada-Anasi

When someone posts that photo with comparing Ramesses II' blue crown/war helmet to a Tutsi hairdo from the 1950s, you know the debate has hit intellectual rock bottom.

Comparing a hook-nosed caucasoid Egyptian to a central African whose fleshy lips push out as far as his nose tip (and who has nothing much by way of a nasal bridge) is the height of stupidity. This is what Ramesses' hair looked like, hardly good sculpting material!



I don't know what the headrest is supposed to be evidence of. You wouldn't get much sleep on it if it was pyramid shaped. Your images are visual spam.

There is nothing negroid about the pharaoh Userkaf, either. (I think both those images are statues of Userkaf) His nose is bulbous, not broad. This is a common caucasian feature, also common among modern Coptic Egyptians. I doubt many Nigerians look like that.







Nigerian judges wear British style wigs. This must prove that the British were black, by backwards-logic headrest/hairstyle/helmet evidence standards!



Obviously the images in this montage are a selective bunch, Djehuti, but they are authentic nonetheless, and many more like that could be found.


It makes a point. No black nation would represent a segment of its people that way. (Invariably the females are light colour, the men red-brown, as appears even in your counter-selection). Egyptians could draw & paint negresses perfectly when they needed to. Their own females generally were no such thing!



Caucasian is not a defunct term any more than negroid is. These terms are still used in physical anthropology and forensic science. I don't think much of your attempt at a pun, by the way.

If Ethiopians cluster with Greeks than that speaks more of the caucasianness (if that's a word) of Axumite Ethiopians than the blackness of Greeks. The Egyptians were by no means black, but were dark to classical Greek eyes, as were the people of Colchis (modern Georgia).

 

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Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
 

quote:

---

Caucasian is not a defunct term any more than negroid is. These terms are still used in physical anthropology and forensic science.

---

ummmmm, are you sure about that....because yet and still:

Cau·ca·sian   /kɔˈkeɪʒən, -ʃən, -ˈkæʒən, -ˈkæʃ-/ Show Spelled
[kaw-key-zhuhn, -shuhn, -kazh-uhn, -kash-] Show IPA

–adjective Also, Cau·cas·ic  /kɔˈkæsɪk, -ˈkæz-/ show+spelled">Show Spelled
[kaw-kas-ik, -kaz-] Show IPA
.
1. Anthropology . of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, marked by fair to dark skin, straight to tightly curled hair, and light to very dark eyes, and originally inhabiting europe, parts of North Africa, western Asia, and India: no longer in technical use.
2. of or pertaining to the Caucasus mountain range.
3. of or related to the non-Indo-European, non-Turkic languages of the Caucasus region.

–noun
4. Anthropology . a member of the peoples traditionally classified as the Caucasian race, especially those peoples having light to fair skin: no longer in technical use.
5. a native of Caucasia.


Word Origin & History

Caucasian

1807, from Caucasus Mountains, between the Black and Caspian seas; applied to the "white" race 1795 (in Ger.) by Ger. anthropologist Johann Blumenbach, because their supposed ancestral homeland lay there; since abandoned as a historical/anthropological term. Lit. meaning "resident or native of the Caucasus" is from 1843 (see Caucasus).


courtesy of dictionary.com

I have emphasized a particular phrasing above with regard to the term "caucasion", (which was my only point in posting the above):

"...no longer in technical use."

"...since abandoned as a historical/anthropological term."

Just sayin'.....


oh yeah, before I forget:

Can you please post for the members here, a current mainstream map showing us where Negro Land is located?

I asked another member this over a year ago, but said member has not as of yet provided us with that information....

Thanks in advance....
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Cau·ca·sian (kô-kzhn, -kzhn)
adj.
1.
a. Anthropology Of or being a human racial classification distinguished especially by very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. See Usage Note at race1.
b. Of or relating to a racial group having white skin, especially one of European origin; white.
2. Of or relating to the Caucasus region or its peoples, languages, or cultures.
3. Of or relating to a group of three language families spoken in the region of the Caucasus mountains, including Chechen, Abkhaz, and the Kartvelian languages.
n.
1. Anthropology A member of the Caucasian racial classification.
2. A native or inhabitant of the Caucasus.
3. The Caucasian language family.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Doesn't say anything about it being an obsolete term in the OED either.

I don't have time for political correct cartographers who deny the obvious. There's a readon why historical maps of ancient cultures just drew a diagonal line under Egypt towards Somalia and wrote Hammites and labelled everything south of the Sahara desert as 'negroes'. The people of this region had little or no contact with wider humanity and contributed vitually nothing to the story of civilization.
 

---

Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 

quote:

---

If Ethiopians cluster with Greeks than that speaks more of the caucasianness (if that's a word) of Axumite Ethiopians than the blackness of Greeks. The Egyptians were by no means black, but were dark to classical Greek eyes, as were the people of Colchis (modern Georgia).

---

quote:

---

The United States National Library of Medicine has used the term "Caucasian" as a race in the past, but has discontinued its usage in favor of the term "European,".[22]

---

quote:

---

....and labelled everything south of the Sahara desert as 'negroes'.

---

Sooooo....a current mainstream map should show us Negro Land is somewhere south of the Sahara Desert?
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
The E haplotype is also common in W. Asia, especially among arabs and jews (being E1b1b1 which is also the most common type among Ethiopians, Egyptians and Berbers, but usually not negroes, who are E1b1a or E 2 if they belong to this clade) there are some who still think the E haplotype originated in Asia. Greeks have had considerable historical contact with w. Asia, from the conquests of Alexander to the 400-year occupation by the Ottoman Turks, who passed through Arab lands on the way of course.

Anyway this shows Greeks, Ethiopians, a pure negress and a mulatto. If Ethiopians are pure black African one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise...


 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
'European' is useless as a term for a race, as it is laiden with geographical associations. Caucasian has similar problems but it is clearer as a definition. There are indigenous north Africans and west Assians who are quite obviously Caucasian and who could not be distinguished from Europeans.
 

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Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
 
I am going to assume that you are well aware that the term "negress" is offensive, and are using this term over the internet because you know you won't get a foot slammed up your backside....

smh like I've said, can't very well be vexed with the scorpion for following its Nature....
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
When Africa stops being yellow and starts being green, as a rule of thumb, that's 'negro land'. Basically imagine a diagonal line goung north-west from Mogadishu to Khartoum and then going East all the way to the coast of Senegal. Anything below that line is basically negro land. The country divides on the map are artifical and were drawn by the white man, mostly.
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
I couldn't give a damn if people want to take offence at plain english. Whoever died of being offended? Apparently it's ok to say that someone's race doesn't exist, but you can whine when someone calls you what you are.
 

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Posted by AphRe7 (Member # 18920) on :
 
White Nerd, I mean Nord, you and your "friends" seem to get very emotional about anyone claiming that Ancient Egypt is anything other than white. I find that very odd considering, as a "nord", your ancestors wouldn't have originated any where near Egypt. So, why such outrage with something that really doesn't concern you? Why do you have an emotional attachment to the Ancient Egyptians who would have more than likely killed you and anyone that looks like you on sight.

Is it because your own people, the so-called Nordics really don't have a recorded history of their own? No writing systems? (No, runes don't count) Does it bother you than your people lived in mud huts with thatched roofs? That Romans and other enlightened Europeans considered your people barbarians who they enslaved? Your women raped by Romans and your straw-haired males castrated. You don't even have a proper religion because it was all lost (save for the Eddas, which are a poor substitute) during mass conversions to Christianity. You know almost nothing about the proper prayers for your own Nordic gods, so some of you invent some BS and call it Asatru.

Nordic peoples have just as little recorded history as Sub-Saharan Africans- maybe even less so. The only reason you live the way you do now is through the benefit of other European cultures.

So, please. Cut the self-righteous horse crap. It's starting to get very, very old.

A quote by Hitler:

"Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these relegations."
 

---

Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:
When Africa stops being yellow and starts being green, as a rule of thumb, that's 'negro land'. Basically imagine a diagonal line goung north-west from Mogadishu to Khartoum and then going East all the way to the coast of Senegal. Anything below that line is basically negro land. The country divides on the map are artifical and were drawn by the white man, mostly.

---

quote:

---

The country divides on the map are artifical and were drawn by the white man,

---

quote:

---

(No, runes don't count)

---

Why not, may I ask? It is a form of writing still...
 

---

Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Calabooz':
Ethiopians have no signs of significant admixture.

---

What a liar


 

---

Posted by AphRe7 (Member # 18920) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:

quote:

---

(No, runes don't count)

---

Why not, may I ask? It is a form of writing still...

---

quote:

---

The E haplotype is also common in W. Asia, especially among arabs and jews (being E1b1b1 which is also the most common type among Ethiopians, Egyptians and Berbers, but usually not negroes, who are E1b1a or E 2 if they belong to this clade) there are some who still think the E haplotype originated in Asia.

---

quote:

---

'European' is useless as a term for a race, as it is laiden with geographical associations. Caucasian has similar problems but it is clearer as a definition. There are indigenous north Africans and west Assians who are quite obviously Caucasian and who could not be distinguished from Europeans.

---

Caucasian is in no way a clear definition. You keep ignoring the most important thing, i.e., that you can not group populations based on superficial similarities into one large racial group if they have no affinity with the other population.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''Your women raped by Romans and your straw-haired males castrated. You don't even have a proper religion because it was all lost (save for the Eddas, which are a poor substitute) during mass conversions to Christianity. You know almost nothing about the proper prayers for your own Nordic gods, so some of you invent some BS and call it Asatru.''
=======

Since when did the Romans conquer Scandinavia and rape Scandinavians? They couldn't even conquer the Picts of Scotland.

Why are blacks so retarded at basic history?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
suppose you wrote something about Caucasians. Then you wrote something about Negroids.
Then people have a problem.

Take the exact same thing you wrote, substitute "white" for Caucasian and "black" for Negroid
no problems, they leave you alone
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Rahotep101 take Lioness advice the Negroid Caucasian thing not working that's sooo 19th century

The point is Userkaf and Shepseskaf are from the same Civ.and possible from the same family Userkaf 5th dyn Shepesekaf 4th your Negroid vs Caucasoid term is irrelevant both broad featured and narrow featured folks can be found any cosmopolitan African or diasporian centers along with shades of all kinds what we are not going to do is a allow some alabaster wanna be black but not Negrooid come and spit up our family whether ancient or modern just so they can play dress-up without feeling guilty of theft.

All the above from Kemet and the Great Lakes region including the much maligned Congo showing cultural relatedness, out side of Africa one is hard pressed to find those type of headrest while the head deformation is found in the Americas as far as I know places immediately out side Africa didn't practice such.

Where is the ws scepter a symbol of leadership found out side of Africa but yet is found right across Africa from Gilf el Kebir right through again that much maligned Congo and the Great Lakes region.

Summary

The paper provides a summary of (black) African ethnomathematics, with a special focus on results of possible interest to eventual mathematical properties of the Ishango rod(s). The African diversity in number names,
gestures and systems (including base 2 of the Bushmen, probably related to the early Ishango people) shows frequent decompositions of numbers in small groups (similar to the carvings on the rod), while the existence of words
for large numbers illustrates counting was not merely done for practical reasons. A particular case is the base 12,
with it straightforward fi nger counting method on the hands, and used in Nigeria, Egypt and the Ishango region.
Geometric representations are found in traditional sand drawings or decorations, where lines and fi gures obey
abstract rules. Number lines drawn in the sand (using small and long lines as on the rod) make anyone immediately remind the Ishango carvings. Knot ed strings and carved counting sticks (even looking like exact wooden
copies of the Ishango rod) illustrate an African counting practice, as confi rmed in writ en sources of, for instance,
a git ed American slave. Finally, mancala mind games, Yoruba and Egyptian multiplication (using doublings as on
the Ishango rod) or kinship studies all show ethnologists may have ignored for too long Africans were talking the
mathematical language, ever since.
http://etopia.sintlucas.be/3.14/Ishango_meeting/Mathematics_Africa.pdf


Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=polysci&action=display&thread=783#ixzz1MxROQTYS

Now tell where that system of Mathematics found in early Eurasia? but is anciently found all over Africa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyduQYmlowM&feature=player_embedded
watch the vid pay close attention as to where that system of doubling came from and where it went.

You may visit our house but you cannot stay you are a rude guest in our collective African cultures,Now take your bag of Negroids and GET THE FUK OUT!!!
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AphRe7:
A quote by Hitler:

"Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these relegations."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AphRe7:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:

quote:

---

(No, runes don't count)

---

Why not, may I ask? It is a form of writing still...

---

I will concede the issue of runes, but the other issues I stand firm on. I have Nordic blood as well, so I feel I can criticize those that throw stones in glass houses. Bigotry is a mental illness that must be cured.

---

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh....overstand and respect!
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

Nigeria was once part of the Brit Empire ergo cultural and even linguistic connection Kemet is influenced from other regions in Africa culturally biologically and linguistically for far longer than 70yrs of Brit colonial rule

The following is a "North Saharan" — from "Kargur Talh" in particular — rendition dating to ca. 6ky to 7ky BP; it notably sports a male figure holding what appears to be a staff, reminiscent of the Was scepter..and we have an early and a rather simple rendition dating back to ca. 3500 BC, found in the Hierakonpolis tomb 100, sporting several individuals holding what appear to be Was scepter

Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hist&action=display&thread=254&page=3#ixzz1Mxh6APMN
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''Your women raped by Romans and your straw-haired males castrated. You don't even have a proper religion because it was all lost (save for the Eddas, which are a poor substitute) during mass conversions to Christianity. You know almost nothing about the proper prayers for your own Nordic gods, so some of you invent some BS and call it Asatru.''
=======

Since when did the Romans conquer Scandinavia and rape Scandinavians? They couldn't even conquer the Picts of Scotland.

Why are blacks so retarded at basic history?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TruthAndRights:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:
When Africa stops being yellow and starts being green, as a rule of thumb, that's 'negro land'. Basically imagine a diagonal line goung north-west from Mogadishu to Khartoum and then going East all the way to the coast of Senegal. Anything below that line is basically negro land. The country divides on the map are artifical and were drawn by the white man, mostly.

---

No, my dear...no imaginary nothing...if Negro Land actually exists, on a current mainstream map you should be able to show us an actual place named, on said current mainstream map exactly where Negro Land is.

And I am not a "negress"...I am an Afro-Caribbean woman, of African ancestry....NOT YOU, NOR ANY OTHER 'WHITE' PERSON, CAN TELL ME WHO I AM....YOU CAN ONLY CALL ME NAMES...YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT....AND IF YOU CAN'T, I AM JUST SORRY FOR YOU....

quote:

---

The country divides on the map are artifical and were drawn by the white man,

---

You get credit for at least getting that right....lol....

that being said, good evening to you...

---

quote:

---

History is not part of their history, that's why. I'm still waiting for them to name sub-saharan Africa's Bede or Herodotus.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Rahotep we still waiting for you to post white kemetians
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004629;p=2

And think Ahmed Baba, Al Fulani,Zara Yacob,Bava Gor from Kano?? amongst others.

quote:

---

History is not part of their history, that's why. I'm still waiting for them to name sub-saharan Africa's Bede or Herodotus.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Rahotep we still waiting for you to post white kemetians
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004629;p=2

And think Ahmed Baba, Al Fulani,Zara Yacob,Bava Gor from Kano?? amongst others.

quote:

---

History is not part of their history, that's why. I'm still waiting for them to name sub-saharan Africa's Bede or Herodotus.

---

---

Off the top of your google, more like. Still nothing earlier than the late medieval era? A thousand odd years after Bede? And all confined to the bit of Africa facing Arabia? What about the rest?

---

quote:

---

Really, I got so sick of all the stupid 'Egypt was black' comments on everything on youtube to do with Egypt that I started making videos arguing against this

---

^Hilarious








 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Indeed. DaDum1_01 complains about blacks fabricating history or stealing history when it comes to Egypt even though Egypt IS African as much as Nigeria, or rather Egypt's neighbor Sudan.
 

---

Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 
Those are ~50% Caucasoid Ancient Mulattoes. Not true Negroids.

True Negroids are incapable of building such a magnificent society like that of Ancient Egypt. Only thanks to West Eurasian admixture did they gain the mental capabilities to built such great works.
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Perahu:
Those are ~50% Caucasoid Ancient Mulattoes. Not true Negroids.

True Negroids are incapable of building such a magnificent society like that of Ancient Egypt. Only thanks to West Eurasian admixture did they gain the mental capabilities to built such great works.

---

non-sequiter

Also the percentage you speak of is made up

similar person according to your theory:


 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??

---

^ LOL The fool does not even know the very alphabet he uses is ultimately derived from Egyptian! But let's not forget he does not consider Egyptian to be African.
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed. DaDum1_01 complains about blacks fabricating history or stealing history when it comes to Egypt even though Egypt IS African as much as Nigeria, or rather Egypt's neighbor Sudan.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
non-sequiter

Also the percentage you speak of is made up

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Masonic Rebel:

quote:

---

Really, I got so sick of all the stupid 'Egypt was black' comments on everything on youtube to do with Egypt that I started making videos arguing against this

---

^Hilarious

---

What is that supposed to prove, pray tell?


^^^
Birmingham (UK)
 

---

Posted by Perahu (Member # 18548) on :
 
Those are racially 100% true Negroids, recent migrants. Totally incomparable. A Negroid-Caucasoid hybrid substratum was in Egypt since ancient times.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaDum1_01:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed. DaDum1_01 complains about blacks fabricating history or stealing history when it comes to Egypt even though Egypt IS African as much as Nigeria, or rather Egypt's neighbor Sudan.

---

Poppyock. 60,000 square kelometers of Nigeria is not in Asia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Masonic Rebel:

quote:

---

Really, I got so sick of all the stupid 'Egypt was black' comments on everything on youtube to do with Egypt that I started making videos arguing against this

---

^Hilarious

---

What is that supposed to prove, pray tell?


^^^
Birmingham (UK)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
That true Egyptians who live in rural areas are still BLACK!

---

With 50% Caucasoid DNA and their African genetic component would be highly different from West Africans, i.e. they are not related to your common Negro.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ There is no such thing as "caucasoid" let alone "caucasoid genes" or "negroid" or any other racial garbage. You even claim your master Dienekes is an expert or "doctor" when he is not. You are a lying lunatic. Which is why nobody takes you seriously and you are being ignored.
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??

---

It was Latin, the language of Rome, the city that had already fallen to Germanic relations of the English in 410AD, and to Celtic relations of the Britons in 390 BC!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ There is no such thing as "caucasoid" let alone "caucasoid genes" or "negroid" or any other racial garbage. You even claim your master Dienekes is an expert or "doctor" when he is not. You are a lying lunatic. Which is why nobody takes you seriously and you are being ignored.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

So Bede wrote in Latin a script developed by Rome. While the Ethiopians wrote in Geez a Script developed by Ethiopians. Everything that Bede did was done by the sacred Empire Ethiopia ten fold. Ethiopian Axum in the 1st century was counted as 4 of the Great Empires with the likes of China and Byzantium. The Tin Isles only got that Title during the 19th Century after exploiting the Americans, Carribean, Africans, Indians, and Indo-Chinese and Chinese alike, and after the development of Steam.

It was the so called Arabs that Isolated and Invaded Ethiopia preventing her Growth to further greatness.

Yet and still despite Barbarics Stepping their dirty feet on the sacred soil of Ethiopia, she was still able to resist Colonialism, defeated the Italians and even began a process of Modernization.

Justice is a product of education.
-H.I.M Hallie Selasse

Show Respect boy!!

---

^ Forget that! DaHoisDum101 keeps ignoring that the very alphabet of the Latin language is derived from AFRICANS i.e. Egyptians.

He tends to ignore a lot of things including the fact that Africa has produced more civilizations than Europe!



^ Africa has had trade relations with China long before the advent of Marco Polo!

Indirect contacts between the Northeast African coast and China, mostly based on trade, seem to be documented since at least the 1st century A.D. (Han dynasty). This article focused on the first Chinese, whose presence in Africa is clearly documented. The geographical curiosity of the T'ang dynasty made it possible, that extracts of an 8th century travel report of a Chinese military officer, Du Huan, were documented and preserved. He visited Arabic countries and also Africa. The location of Molin-guo, an African country, seems to be clarified today. South of it lies Laobosa, the first mention of Abyssinia in an ancient Chinese source ; Molin should be located in a dry desert lowland in the Sudan and Eritrea62. This text is thus one of the very few ancient sources contemporary to the late Aksumite kingdom. Briefly, but with significant details, the peoples' customs are described, most of them still identifiable today.

What makes the text fragments on Molin important, is, first, that it is the most ancient source which provides evidence of the presence of a Chinese in Africa63. Most other sources only reflect the fact that products from the African Red Sea coast reached China. Second, it is among the very few ancient sources contemporary to the Aksumite kingdom. Third, the Du Huan travel report fragments give an example on the ways used in that time to cross far distances. Probably rather unusual is the fact, that Du Huan reached the mountainous region south of Egypt by land ; how his way back was organised is not known in detail, but we know that he reached Kanton in Southern China by boat - using the sea routes to India, which we know from a few ancient sources. This shows that still in the period of decline, the sea trade from the African coast was not halted. Fourth, the geographical notions mentioned are reflecting information originating evidently in Arabic contacts, which is probably due to the fact that during the decline of the Aksumite kingdom the Red Sea trade was already in the hands of the Arabs. Finally, the brief descriptions of the multitude of religions give us an impression of the coexistence of religions in this period, on which only very few sources exist.

http://cy.revues.org/document33.html

Even the kingdom of Kilwa traded with China.

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
_________ __________________________
Now in the 12th year, in a corner of the Western Seas, in the stagnant waters of a great morass,
Truly was produced a qilin (ch'i-lin), whose shape was as high as fifteen feet.
With the body of a deer and the tail of an ox, and a fleshy, boneless horn,
With luminous spots like a red cloud in a purple mist.
Its hoofs do not tread on living beings and in its wanderings it carefully selects its ground.
It walks in stately fashion and in its every motion it observes a rhythm,
Its harmonious voice sounds like a bell or a musical tube.
Gentle is this animal, that has in antiquity been seen but once,
The manifestation of its divine spirit rises up to heaven's abode.
Ministers and people together vie to be the first to gaze upon the joyous spectacle,
a true token of Heaven's aid and a proclamation of Heaven's favour.
How glorious is the Sacred Emperor whose literary and military virtues are most excellent,
who has succeeded to the Precious Throne and has achieved Perfect Order in imitation of the Ancients.

Painting with Poem by
Shen Du (1357-1434)


The qilin is a Chinese auspicious mythical animal with giraffe-like features.
Zheng He, a Muslim admiral ambassador eunuch, brought a giraffe from the
east coast of Africa to the emperor Yongle. From Zheng He's stela: [QUOTE]
In the fifteenth year of Yongle (1417): Commanding the fleet we visited the western regions.
The country of Hulumosi (Ormuz) presented lions, leopards with gold spots and large western
horses. The country of Adan (Aden) presented qilin of which the native name is culafa (giraffe),
as well as the long-horned animal maha (oryx). The country of Mugudushu (Mogadishu) presented
huafu lu ("striped" zebras) as well as lions. The country of Bulawa (Brava) presented camels
which run one thousand li as well as camel-birds (ostriches).

---

quote:

---

. . . .
In 1402 an outward-looking emperor named Yong'le (Yung-lo)
came to power. Seeking to reassert a Chinese presence on the
western seas and to enhance the prestige of his rule and dynasty,
he began funding spectacular voyages by Zheng-He.
. . . .
As Zheng He pressed westward in 1414, he sent part of his
fleet north to Bengal, and there the Chinese travelers saw a
wondrous creature.
. . . .
The giraffe the travelers saw in Bengal was already more than
5,000 miles from home. It had been brought there as a gift
from the ruler of the prosperous African city-state of Malindi,
one of the several trading centers lining the east coast of
Africa (Malindi is midway along modern Kenya's coast, three
degrees south of the equator). Zheng He's diplomats persuaded
the Malindi ambassadors to offer the animal as a gift to the
Chinese emperor. They also persuaded the Malindi ambassadors
to send home for another giraffe. When Zheng He returned to
Beijing, he was able to present the emperor with two of the
exotic beasts.

A pair of giraffes in Beijing in 1415 was well worth the cost
of the expedition. In China they thought the giraffe (despite
its having one horn too many) was a ["temple dog"] (ch'i-lin),
whose arrival, according to Confucian tradition, meant that a
sage of the utmost wisdom and benevolence was in their presence.
It was a great gift, therefore, to bring to the ambitious ruler
of a young dynasty. The giraffes were presented to the emperor
Yong'le by exotic envoys from the kingdom of Malindi, whom the
Chinese treated royally. They and the marvelous gift so excited
China's curiosity about Africa that Zheng He sent word to the
kingdom of Mogadishu (then one of the most powerful trading
states in East Africa and now the capitol of modern Somalia) and
to other African states, inviting them to send ambassadors to the
Ming emperor.

The response of the African rulers was overwhelmingly generous,
for China and Africa had been distant trading partners from the
time of the Han dynasty (206 B.C. to A.D. 220).

. . . .

The African emissaries to the Ming throne came with fabulous
gifts, including objects for which entrepreneurs had long before
managed to create a market in the Far East -- tortoise shell,
elephant ivory, and rhinoceros-horn medicine. On their many
visits they also brought zebras, ostriches, and other exotica.
In return, the Ming court sent gold, spices, silk, and other
presents. Zheng He was sent with his fleet of great ships on
yet another voyage across the Indian Ocean to accompany some
of the foreign emissaries home. This escort was the first of
several imperially supported trips to Africa. According to official
records, they went to Mogadishu, Brava, and perhaps Malindi;

. . . .

Samuel M. Wilson
The Emperor's Giraffe
Natural History (Vol. 101, No. 12, December 1992)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pair'ohurtnuts:

Butthurt ugly Australoid Filipino!

---

aaaawwe. Sorry did I hurt your feelings and by that I mean your false caca-soid white pride??

quote:

---

Caucasoid is a genetic reality. It must hurt knowing that even the Nubians are 50% Caucasoid, and the ancient and present-day Egyptians are 70%-90% Caucasoid.

---

Caca-soid is as much a reality as Dr. Dienekes Pontikos et. al! LMAO
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
quote: Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??


Rahotep said
It was Latin, the language of Rome, the city that had already fallen to Germanic relations of the English in 410AD, and to Celtic relations of the Britons in 390 BC

And Ahmed Baba wrote in African language using Arabic script Bede and Herodotus wrote in a European language using a semitic script that was ultimately base on an African script called Mdu Ntr and that goes back even further to the folks of Ta-Seti yes your "Nubians" so does that make Bede a "Nubian" ???
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in''
=====

It was common to write in Latin all across Europe despite other languages were known and could be written.

Britain had written literature long before the Romans invaded. Just not enough research has been done on these early writings because of the erroneous 19th depiction of the native Britons as savage painted cavemen.

Flinders Petrie presented a paper to the Proceedings of the British Academy in 1917 entitled ''Neglected British History'' discussing these pre-Roman written sources. Despite scholars and academics knowing of their existance, this knowledge has never broken into the mainstream. Why? Probably political correctness. Universities in Britain are now not even allowed to publically discuss the British Empire.
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^^
Im not doubting the British had a script before Latin, what Im getting at is your and Rahotep's dismissal of Geez. Geez unlike the language Bede wrote in was developed by Ethiopians. Little to any Sabaen influence was need. further more Southern Arabians get their Script VIA Phonecian which was developed from Egyptian, another African script.

The Fact is Bede wrote in a Language not developed by his own people while the Ethiopian did not have that problem, so please stop bringing up Arabs everytime some one mentions Ethiopia. If anything Arabs did more damage to Ethiopia than good.

Second if its true that the British Universities cant teach the British Empire(I doubt that) then thats really sad. The British Empire is an important fact of History and the Story of the British before Rome should be told as well like all Cultures.

If you don't mind me asking what reasons would it serve not to discuss the British Empire. Does London Universities not have World History Programs..??

Here in the states you can even forcus on Western Civ, hell maybe even the British Empire. You telling me Oxford University does'nt have a Western Civ. Focus or a Focus on the British Empire for at least Graduate students....

I doubt that.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''If you don't mind me asking what reasons would it serve not to discuss the British Empire''
=====

Self-hatred pushed by white liberals. These same white liberal freaks count the numbers of 'blacks' at cambridge and oxford and claim that there are not enough at cambridge/oxford and that the students there are too ''pasty white''.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/12/emmanuel-empire-may-ball

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139803/Row-Cambridge-Universitys-insensitive-offensive-British-Empire-ball.html

- ''Cambridge college forced to change 'offensive' theme of May ball''

- '''Cambridge University has been accused of advocating slavery and racism yesterday by hosting a glamorous ball to celebrate the excesses of the British Empire''.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/apr/11/oxford-cameron-black-students

- ''David Cameron has raised hackles at Oxford University with a comment about its numbers of black students.

Speaking at a PM Direct event in North Yorkshire, he said: "I saw figures the other day that showed that only one black person went to Oxford last year. I think that is disgraceful. We have got to do better than that."''
 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??

---

It was Latin, the language of Rome, the city that had already fallen to Germanic relations of the English in 410AD, and to Celtic relations of the Britons in 390 BC!

---

^^^^
So Bede wrote in Latin a script developed by Rome. While the Ethiopians wrote in Geez a Script developed by Ethiopians. Everything that Bede did was done by the sacred Empire Ethiopia ten fold. Ethiopian Axum in the 1st century was counted as 4 of the Great Empires with the likes of China and Byzantium. The Tin Isles only got that Title during the 19th Century after exploiting the Americans, Carribean, Africans, Indians, and Indo-Chinese and Chinese alike, and after the development of Steam.

It was the so called Arabs that Isolated and Invaded Ethiopia preventing her Growth to further greatness.

Yet and still despite Barbarics Stepping their dirty feet on the sacred soil of Ethiopia, she was still able to resist Colonialism, defeated the Italians and even began a process of Modernization.

Justice is a product of education.
-H.I.M Hallie Selasse

Show Respect boy!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''If you don't mind me asking what reasons would it serve not to discuss the British Empire''
=====

Self-hatred pushed by white liberals. These same white liberal freaks count the numbers of 'blacks' at cambridge and oxford and claim that there are not enough at cambridge/oxford and that the students there are too ''pasty white''.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/12/emmanuel-empire-may-ball

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139803/Row-Cambridge-Universitys-insensitive-offensive-British-Empire-ball.html

- ''Cambridge college forced to change 'offensive' theme of May ball''

- '''Cambridge University has been accused of advocating slavery and racism yesterday by hosting a glamorous ball to celebrate the excesses of the British Empire''.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/apr/11/oxford-cameron-black-students

- ''David Cameron has raised hackles at Oxford University with a comment about its numbers of black students.

Speaking at a PM Direct event in North Yorkshire, he said: "I saw figures the other day that showed that only one black person went to Oxford last year. I think that is disgraceful. We have got to do better than that."''

---

The funny thing is the quote in the Guardian article about Britain going to war against the Boer 'tribe' in South Africa. The Boers were not a tribe but the descendants of Dutch settlers, they were whites and much more racist, generally, than the British! The ignorance of some people is astonishing.

Still it's not true that the Britiash Empire is not taught. I did a module on the British in India when I was at uni. Most of the academics I encountered were liberal and anti-imperialist. One, I remember, seemed to think that the hindus would have stopped burning their wives eventually if left to their own devices. Other historians (albeit academic exiles) are more positive about the legacy of empire, and condemn the self-flagellation over 'imperial guilt' prevalent in white liberal circles.
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
Where did I deny that the British Empire was great. Read my post I made it clear that the British became a Great empire in the 18-19th century after taking advantage of various lands and people and after the invention of Steam and the British Nautical Navigation(Which deserves credit). The point Im driving at is that Ethiopia developed on its own. Arabs did more harm than good, and the Sabeans would have looked no different than the Ave. Ethiopian.

[Isaiah 45:14] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THE LABOUR OF EGYPT, AND MERCHANDISE OF ETHIOPIA AND OF THE SABEANS, MEN OF STATURE, SHALL COME OVER UNTO THEE...

Sabeans Men of Stature..

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Rahotep Im still waiting on you to tell us what script Bede wrote the history of the English people in..?? You seem so insistant on devaluing the Ethiopian Geez literature despite it being a Complete African development. So please what script did Bede write in??

---

It was Latin, the language of Rome, the city that had already fallen to Germanic relations of the English in 410AD, and to Celtic relations of the Britons in 390 BC!

---

^^^^
So Bede wrote in Latin a script developed by Rome. While the Ethiopians wrote in Geez a Script developed by Ethiopians. Everything that Bede did was done by the sacred Empire Ethiopia ten fold. Ethiopian Axum in the 1st century was counted as 4 of the Great Empires with the likes of China and Byzantium. The Tin Isles only got that Title during the 19th Century after exploiting the Americans, Carribean, Africans, Indians, and Indo-Chinese and Chinese alike, and after the development of Steam.

It was the so called Arabs that Isolated and Invaded Ethiopia preventing her Growth to further greatness.

Yet and still despite Barbarics Stepping their dirty feet on the sacred soil of Ethiopia, she was still able to resist Colonialism, defeated the Italians and even began a process of Modernization.

Justice is a product of education.
-H.I.M Hallie Selasse

Show Respect boy!!

---

What language are you going to reply in? What is the official language uniting Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Malawi,Nambia Nigeria, Uganda and Swaziland, among others? Who gave Swahili its current latin alphabet? Not the Romans! The Tin Isle founded America, essentially ruled Egypt, colonized Nubia and successfully invaded Ethiopia (to rescue hostages) but didn't hang around (General Napier's Magdala expedition, 1868).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''If you don't mind me asking what reasons would it serve not to discuss the British Empire''
=====

Self-hatred pushed by white liberals. These same white liberal freaks count the numbers of 'blacks' at cambridge and oxford and claim that there are not enough at cambridge/oxford and that the students there are too ''pasty white''.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/12/emmanuel-empire-may-ball

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139803/Row-Cambridge-Universitys-insensitive-offensive-British-Empire-ball.html

- ''Cambridge college forced to change 'offensive' theme of May ball''

- '''Cambridge University has been accused of advocating slavery and racism yesterday by hosting a glamorous ball to celebrate the excesses of the British Empire''.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/apr/11/oxford-cameron-black-students

- ''David Cameron has raised hackles at Oxford University with a comment about its numbers of black students.

Speaking at a PM Direct event in North Yorkshire, he said: "I saw figures the other day that showed that only one black person went to Oxford last year. I think that is disgraceful. We have got to do better than that."''

---

The funny thing is the quote in the Guardian article about Britain going to war against the Boer 'tribe' in South Africa. The Boers were not a tribe but the descendants of Dutch settlers, they were whites and much more racist, generally, than the British! The ignorance of some people is astonishing.

Still it's not true that the Britiash Empire is not taught. I did a module on the British in India when I was at uni. Most of the academics I encountered were liberal and anti-imperialist. One, I remember, seemed to think that the hindus would have stopped burning their wives eventually if left to their own devices. Other historians (albeit academic exiles) are more positive about the legacy of empire, and condemn the self-flagellation over 'imperial guilt' prevalent in white liberal circles.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaDum1_01:

@the court Djehester
Carthage was founded by Phoenicians from Lebanon, and the Egyptans probably had common ancestry with the Phoenicians in the vicinity of the Persian Gulf. Nubia was a deriviative culture from Egypt, or at least all the trappings of high civilization there post-date the Egyptian occupation. Ethiopia was oriented to the Semitic world. Few of the other cultures in Africa qualify as advanced civilizations.

---

quote:

---

Latin is far removed from Egyptian, though it owes something, deriving via Phoenician and Greek. The Greeks devised a vastly superior alphabet in terms of efficiency than that of the Egyptians. The Egyptians were not sorry to ditch their old, jumbled mixture of phonetic symbols, pictograms and ideograms in favour of a purely phonetic system based on Greek- which they did in the early centuries of the Christian era.

---

quote:

---

Big wow that the Chinese had exotic pets. The Plantagenet kings of medieval England also managed to get their hands on African wildlife, including a number of lions and an elephant, which were kept at the Tower of London.

---

You obviously missed the point that China was engaged in economic trade with Sub-Saharan Africa long before they had relations with Europeans. It was more than just a pet-trade, you fool. African gold, ebony, etc. were traded. And Europe's economy before the advent of Columbus was also stimulated by gold from Africa since about 80% of it came from there.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''Besides Immigration is inevitable, with the Dawn of Industrialization and Globalization you have to be crazy to think you can stop Immigration esp. to Europe from Poor nations. Europeans Migrated En Masse to places like America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Argintina. And now you are all mad because people are doing the samething your forefathers did.''
===========

Korea, Japan and vast parts of Asia are 99.9% homogenous, they have no immigration problems and they reject a multicultural society.

The West (especially Europe) however has experimented with multiculturalism (and multiracialism) which has been a disaster. The white native Britons are now a minority in virtually all of their major cities. Can you ever imagine the same happening in Japan?

London, Glasgow etc are an embarrassment. In fact i have heard this directly from Chinese tourists who traveled to UK, and instead of seeing British people & culture they ended up seeing nothing but blacks, asians etc.

Here are some links -

UK whites a minority in London classrooms
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23414213-uk-whites-a-minority-in-london-classrooms.do

''In Tower Hamlets, 15 per cent of primary school pupils are classed as white British, while 63 per cent of their classmates come from Bangladeshi families''

''798,110 pupils in England's state schools do not speak English as their first language''


UK whites will be minority by 2100
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world1

All UK cities to have white minorities 'in 30 years'
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1896835/posts


White Britons will soon be minority in UK cities, says report
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/white-britons-will-soon-be-minority-in-uk-cities-says-report/253857/

''Sharp increase in immigration combined with higher birth rates among newcomers to UK is set to make white Britons a minority in many towns and cities within 30 years, a study has said''

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/white-britons-could-be-minority-by-2066-2137329.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563191/UK-cities-to-have-white-minorities-in-30-years.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-478910/White-people-UKs-cities-likely-minority-20-years.html


White children in Birmingham ‘a minority’ this year because of immigration
http://www.parentpages.co.uk/news/white-children-in-birmingham-a-minority-this-year-because-of-immigration/
 

---

Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
^^^^
The difference between Japan, Korea, and China is that they have a large population density, they don't need Immigration. Europe on the other hand has seen a population decrease which is why Immigration is being encouraged. It has nothing to do with Liberals or Conservatives or Multiculturalism. I can guarentee the Conservatives are behind Immigration as any liberal because Immigration benefits the economy esp. when te native population is seeing such a decease in population density. And Japan and China are becoming more Multicultural but as I said they have a large Dense population so they don't need any alot of immigration.
 

---

Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
 
oh cry me a friggin river...bout...

and I say again-

...give up people....give up....the world knows there are a few of you, accept that you are a rarity and shut up- nobody has sympathy for you....

'white' people: the True global minority....
 

---

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
All I can say in this thread is that People are People.

Some Good some bad.

You hope that immigration to Europe comes with freedom....but it does not always work out that way.

With how Wired in is everything these days...News has become pure entertainment. Peoples lives are broadcast so people can read and take pics from their phones. Sadly the way this world is Going.....God can't come quick enough for me. Until that fatefull day that man meets his creator, We have to respect the people and allow them to work in Jobs that their skills could help the people in the country they are in.

It should not matter whether Black or White, Indian or Chinese. The people most helpfull to the population should be allowed to immigrate.

People are people regardless of colour...Respect must be layed out and people should be allowed to move around this Earth freely.

Peace
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
ANglo-pyr wrote:

Korea, Japan and vast parts of Asia are 99.9% homogenous, they have no immigration problems and they reject a multicultural society.

No, Korea and Japan are not "99.9%" homogenous. You can't even get simple math straight.. Almost 2% of the people in Japan are non-Japanese, most of those being Koreans. So much for your "precise" figure of 99.9%. In China, the dominant Han Chinese population is about 91%- again, NOT your bogus "99.9%". See rewferences in Wiki articles on these subjects. And your notion of some sort of homogenous "paradise" is much less than advertised. The "homogeneous" Japanese are mass murderers of the first order, as their history in World War II shows. They are also pretty good at suicide and producing soft to medium core child pornography. The same goes for your oh so good "homogenous" China, not only a leader in mass slaughter on a titanic scale, but the greatest abortionists on the planet by volume, a "leader" in infanticide for centuries, and a totalitarian dictatorship as well. If you love these places so much, why haven't you moved there to enjoy "homogenization"?


The West (especially Europe) however has experimented with multiculturalism (and multiracialism) which has been a disaster. The white native Britons are now a minority in virtually all of their major cities.

You incompetent. White Britons are not a "minority" in their major cities. The non-white ethnic minority population of London in 2001 was just over 2 million or 29 per cent. (Chris Hamnett (2003). "Unequal city: London in the global arena".) You simply do not know what you are talking about.

And "the West" has always had plenty of "multiculturalism." The Western Roman Empire contained numerous ethnic groups from Egypt to Palestine, to parts of what is now Turkey. Alexander the Great himself attempted a "racial" fusion with some Asiatic groups. And Britain aside from its multicultural empire has been complaining about "undesirable" immigrants for centuries before todays Pakis, Jamaicans etc. In the 1800s the white Irish had a lot of immigration to England and were viewed unfavorably by the natives for having an alien culture, and were even considered by many English to be a different race altogether. Tens of thousands of these white Irish were deported as undesirable aliens, and many simply found new ways to sneak back across the border. In short immigrants of different cultural backgrounds have been around for centuries in Britain. They are nothing special. (see: Irish migrants in Britain, 1815-1914: a documentary history. By Roger Swift 2002)

London, Glasgow etc are an embarrassment. In fact i have heard this directly from Chinese tourists who traveled to UK, and instead of seeing British people & culture they ended up seeing nothing but blacks, asians etc.

What you have allegedly "heard" simply exposes you as yet another ignoramus.
 

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Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
 
Zarahan you sum it up well. It is rather irrational the anger people pose at Immigration but at the same time the population is decresing(Thus demanding more Immigration). No one is forcing native Britons and other Euros to have less babies they do so willingly.

Also this whole whining about "Multiculturalism" if anything European Empires are the Epitomy of Multicultralism.

Greece, Rome, even the British Empire Rah and Anglo Pyramid love to brag about was "Multicultural" taking advantage of Africans, Indians, and Natives of the Americas. Why do you think all these "Immigrants" are going to Britian in the first place..??

I think Anglo Pyramid would be hardpressed to find an advanced European Empire that was not Multicultural is some way.
 

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Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^Indeed. They were always "multicultural". Matter of
fact Europe itself was peopled by "multiculturalism"
via the OOA migrants and their movement thru the
Middle East on into Europe. Even more ironic, Europeans
themselves are hybrids as we have seen several times
on ES- 1/3 African and 2/3s Asian according to
their own conservative geneticists.


 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 


He spends a lot of time assailing "Afrocentrists"
while attempting to minimize as much as possible
the data showing the AEs were tropically adapted
Africans. By 1999, when he wrote his book, he had
the substantial cranial, limb proportion,
cultural and even initial DNA data on file. He
minimizes all, then in a veiled way, finally,
grudgingly admits the truth when he has to deal
with Keita's data.
From Zarahan
Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=699#ixzz1NMsQPfy3
Btw was it you who made a thread or posted on some busted Eurocentric admitted blatantly lying about the African read Blk make up of Kemet to one of his posters a fellow Euro-centrist who got so distraught he/she exposed him I am looking for that post that was excellent could you repost it please.
 

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Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
BTW, What I don't get is all the Whites who defend Islam. Don't they know that Muslims were enslaving their people in Turkey and North Africa, same with blacks...makes no damn sense IMO.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:


He spends a lot of time assailing "Afrocentrists"
while attempting to minimize as much as possible
the data showing the AEs were tropically adapted
Africans. By 1999, when he wrote his book, he had
the substantial cranial, limb proportion,
cultural and even initial DNA data on file. He
minimizes all, then in a veiled way, finally,
grudgingly admits the truth when he has to deal
with Keita's data.
From Zarahan
Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=699#ixzz1NMsQPfy3
Btw was it you who made a thread or posted on some busted Eurocentric admitted blatantly lying about the African read Blk make up of Kemet to one of his posters a fellow Euro-centrist who got so distraught he/she exposed him I am looking for that post that was excellent could you repost it please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
BTW, What I don't get is all the Whites who defend Islam. Don't they know that Muslims were enslaving their people in Turkey and North Africa, same with blacks...makes no damn sense IMO.

---

Totally agree there. The term 'useful iodiots' springs to mind. Liberals defend Islam, it seems to me, because so-called conservative westerners condemn it, and they (apologists for Islam on the left) see a common cause against America and all it stands for. They seem to miss the point that Islam is itself right-wing, illiberal, aggressively imperialistic and reactionary. It is all the things the liberal left profess to hate when done by whites.

---

quote:

---

So True. This is something that turns me off to alot of Liberals. Like "The Young Turks" show Cenk is a Muslim Apologist. He rarely if ever critisizes Islam because he is a former Muslim. I must admit as a former devout Xtian I have a bias for Xtianity though.

---

quote:

---

Indigenous Africans are not necessarily black people... This is the crux of the matter, and the fact most flagrantly ignored by afrocentrists...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaDumb1_01:

Indigenous Africans are not necessarily black people... This is the crux of the matter, and the fact most flagrantly ignored by afrocentrists...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people

---

LOL Actually what you say is the lie that is deliberately propagated by Eurocentrists.

FACT 1. Most of Africa is tropical with some portions being subtropical.

FACT 2. Because of the following fact above there is no such thing as indigenous whites.

FACT 3. Berber strictly speaking is a culturo-linguistic group and it is a fallacy to identify Berber with whites only since a good portion of Berber peoples are still black just as the original proto-Berbers were, since Berber is indigenous to Africa and Facts 1 & 2. stated above.

FACT 4. The only reason for the existence of lighter skinned or even 'white' types in Africa is due to immigrations from Europe and elsewhere across the Mediterranean. It's funny how when blacks are found in North Africa they are assumed to be recent arrivals from "Sub-Sahara" but never the whites who are descendants of European slaves etc.

Thus the whole notion of white indigenes collapses.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Berbers 1









Berbers 2








Which group of Berbers suffers from higher rates of sunburn and skin cancer in North Africa, Group 1 or Group 2??

Which is more indigenous to North Africa, Group 1 or Group 2??
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

FACT 1. Most of Africa is tropical with some portions being subtropical.

FACT 2. Because of the following fact.....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Indeed.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DaDumb1_01:

Indigenous Africans are not necessarily black people... This is the crux of the matter, and the fact most flagrantly ignored by afrocentrists...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people

---

LOL Actually what you say is the lie that is deliberately propagated by Eurocentrists.

FACT 1. Most of Africa is tropical with some portions being subtropical.

FACT 2. Because of the following fact above there is no such thing as indigenous whites.

FACT 3. Berber strictly speaking is a culturo-linguistic group and it is a fallacy to identify Berber with whites only since a good portion of Berber peoples are still black just as the original proto-Berbers were, since Berber is indigenous to Africa and Facts 1 & 2. stated above.

FACT 4. The only reason for the existence of lighter skinned or even 'white' types in Africa is due to immigrations from Europe and elsewhere across the Mediterranean. It's funny how when blacks are found in North Africa they are assumed to be recent arrivals from "Sub-Sahara" but never the whites who are descendants of European slaves etc.

Thus the whole notion of white indigenous collapses.

---

besides being very humerous...
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Originally posted by Brada:

quote:

---

From Zarahan
Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=699#ixzz1NMsQPfy3
Btw was it you who made a thread or posted on some busted Eurocentric admitted blatantly lying about the African read Blk make up of Kemet to one of his posters a fellow Euro-centrist who got so distraught he/she exposed him I am looking for that post that was excellent could you repost it please.

---

Brada, can't remember where that one is. Only
thing I can think of is White Nord lying about
the dates of various studies. There are a lot better
rebuttals done by ES vets though. But I think the link
below may be the one that you are referring to:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001736;p=2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by White Nord:
1) Let me get this straight, you’re having issues with the date and not the content? Ok just wanted to make sureeee! ‘Cause correcting the date does not change the content.

No matter what bogus date you choose, your still fail, and you have already been debunked on the content. Why are you still running away from your earlier lies in this thread, where you put more recent dates on one of your outmoded studies, trying to pas it off as more recent as everyone saw in the link below? You make a fetish out of “more recent” dates. It is obvious that you were trying to pad the study dates so you could continue this deception. No one is being fooled ace.
See:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001736;p=2


Nord always claims more "recent" studies show
white Egypt and Africa, than is why he falsified
the dates on the old ones above, and was caught
out in a lie...


2) Now let's look at your bogus claim #2- claim calling such people as the Hausa "white":

“We study the major levels of Y-chromosome haplogroup variation in 15 Sudanese populations by typing major Y-haplogroups in 445 unrelated males representing the three linguistic families in Sudan. Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively…. haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group…. haplogroups F-M89, I-M170, J-12f2, and J2-M172 were found to be more frequent in the Afro-Asiatic speaking groups.” (“Y-Chromosome Variatio
LOL your comprehension sills are as hideous as your arithmetic. How does 24.8% negroid outweigh the 75.2% non-negroid? LOL dunce and this is not even discussing mtdna! There are Caucasian haplogroups represented in Sudan and surrounding Beja, Copts, Hausa, Fulani. Ironic that the very ones that are “Afro Asiatic” have these Caucasian haplogroups which indicates that Caucasians brought the language into Africa. “haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups”

I think its both your comprehension and math skills that need a workout "Nord". You play another bogus game, defining a host of African groups as 'Caucasian" so you can do your little "white math." That won't work. The overall weight is still African, and that includes Haplogroup E.


Nord loses again...


3) Now let's take your bogus claim #3- where you assert that the Afro Asiatic languages were brought into Africa by white people.

- "Ironic that the very ones that are “Afro Asiatic” have these Caucasian haplogroups which indicates that Caucasians brought the language into Africa. “haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups” "

Nord you fail again. Almost all of the Afro Asiatic languages originated in Africa. There was no need for your fantasy 'Caucasoids" to bring them. Respected mainstream scholars destroy your claim as follows:

"the peoples of the steppes and grasslands to the immediate south of Egypt domesticated cattle, as early as 9000 to 8000 B.C. They included peoples from the Afro-Asiastic linguistic group and the second major African language family, Nilo-Saharan (Wendorf, Schild, Close 1984; Wendorf, et al. 1982).
-- Christopher Ehret, "Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture," in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 25-27

".. the Horn of Africa certainly contributed more recently to the Near East, because based on linguistic re- construction and the principles of "least moves" and "greatest diversity." It is the geographical home of the ancestor of Afro-Asiatic languages, spoken primarily in Africa with one member in the Near East (Semitic) (Ehret 1984, 1995; Ruhlen 1987). Early Afro-Asiatic spread out from the Horn and did not come into Africa from Asia (brought by "Caucasians") as was believed at one time, and as is occasionally assumed by non-linguists (e.g., Barbujani and Pilastro 1993; Cavalli-Sforza and Cavalli-Sforza 1995). In fact, there is evidence for movement out of Africa at the very time some claim in-migration (Bar-Josef 1987). By the time of the radiation of Afro-Asiatic speakers there was already genetic differentiation in Africa due to African biohistorical processes. There is no need to postulate massive European settler colonization of Africa or genetic swamping and/or settler colonization by Eurasians, as is implied or stated in some contemporary genetic work (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994), echoing the now defunct Hamitic hypothesis. Continental African variation may be interpreted largely without external mass invasions. The antiquity of modern humans in Africa means that there has been time to accumulate a large amount of random genetic variation (Cavalli-Sforza et. al. 1983), which has been shaped by great ecological diversity in the continent (Hiernaux 1975). Genetic drift would also contribute to variability due to fluctuations in population size as founder effects and population expansion events occurred throughout the continent. Therefore it is far more accurate to speak of a range of biohistorical African variants than different races of Africans. Northern Africans are more accurately conceptualized as primarily the products of differentiation than of hybridization."
--( S.O.Y. Keita and R. Kittles. The Persistence of Racial Thinking and the Myth of Racial Divergence, S. O. Y. Keita, Rick A. Kittles, American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 99, No. 3 (Sep., 1997), pp. 534-544)



Nord loses again...


4) Now lets look at your bogus claim #4- the Ethiopians as "white"

On your bogus claim - further white Ethiopians:
”The apportionment of individuals (the average per-individual proportion of ancestry) from each of the eight populations into the four structure-defined clusters broadly corresponds to four geographical areas: Western Eurasia, Sub-Saharan Africa, China and New Guinea. Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a ‘Black’ cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans....” (J.F. Wilson et al. Nature Genetics 29:265-269, 2001)

Claims of a "Caucasoid" Ethiopia via Wilson are contradicted by Passarino 1998, Cavalli-Sforza 1997 and Richards 2003, all of which show Ethiopians to cluster primarily with other African groups. As to claims re Wilson's Nordic-Ethiopian match, his sampling methods under-represented the majority Oromo. So much for your "Aryan" Ethiopians.


sorry 'Nord'...


Now let's look at your "recent study" fetish:

"That’s a lie, Wilsons 2001 study came AFTER Passarinno 1998 and Cavalli-Sforza 1997 so how could they “contradict” it?

Nord, nord.. sigh.... Just because one study comes after another does not make the later study "true". Must we AGAIN explain such elementary matters to you?


And another bogus claim by you:
the Ethiopian gene pool also embraces a considerable component indicative of admixture with populations of Arabian and/or Near Eastern origin (Cavalli-Sforza 1997; Passarino et al., 1998; Thomas et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2004; Luis et al. 2004).” (Ethiopian Mitochondrial DNA Heritage: Tracking Gene Flow Across and Around the Gate of Tears Toomas Kivisild et al., 2004)
It says what it says and there is nothing you Afronuts can do. Every single study shows Ethiopians and Somalis to be more Caucasoid than negroid…

Nord your own studies that you quoted so much on ES over time debunk you. We all know Ethiopians had some gene low from elsewhere over the eras of their long history but your own Cavalli-Sforza studies show the Ethiopians at 60% African., and that’s using the old-fashioned “true negro” model Cavalli-Sdforza uses. Why are you trying to backtrack now?




5) Now lets look at your bogus claim #5- the Somalis as white.

“ We analysed the HLA antigens of 76 unrelated Somalis who lived in the west of England. The result of HLA class I and class II antigen frequencies show that the Somali population appear more similar to Arab or Caucasoid than to African populations. The results are consistent with hypothesis, supported by cultural and historical evidence, of common origin of the Somali population. This study will serve as a reference for further anthropological studies, as well as studies of associations between HLA and disease.” (An international journal published for the British Blood Transfusion Society “Characteristics of HLA Class I and Class II Antigens of the Somali Population” Transfusion Medicine Volume 16 Issue s1, Pages 47 – 47 8 Sep 2006; Journal compilation © 2009 British Blood Transfusion Society)

Right off the bat the “study” above lacks credibility on the topic of African population history. The PDF is about 2 pages listing no tables or charts, or a breakdown of the sample. It does not reference any previous work in the field. Note the authors statement" "The results are consistent with hypothesis, supported by cultural and historical evidence, of common origin of the Somali population.” The only thing is that they have nothing on Somali population history at all, just a description of the tests they ran. This thin reed would not pass peer review by credible anthropologists. Maybe that is why it is in a Blood transfusion journal. But in any event 2 things further undermine it for those claiming "white Somalis":

a)) We all know Somalis have had recent gene flow, from Arabs for example, particularly near the coast. The author above however curiously posts no breakdown of his sample, as is common in studies of other scholars in the field. Hammer 1997 for example in his sample admits that they were all drawn from the far north, near Cairo. This should already tell us how shaky the above “Somali research’ is when they hide their sampling detail.

b))) Second, it is undermined by much more credible studies in the field, which address the issues directly with standard DNA markers. They found that Somalis link more closely with other Africans than Europeans or Middle Easterners. Of course Nord will say ooooohhh, since the dubious “study” above was done in 2006 it must “supercede” anything before, lol… just as how Hilter’s Mein kampf “supercedes” all that was humane and democratic about Germany before he came to power. But this approach is typical of racist neo-nazis like Nord. Much more credible studies place the Somalis closer to Africans.


Nord again loses...


6) Now lets look at your bogus claim #6- the Ethiopians as white again. You post a quote from Bosch, but it already fails in how you try to use it:

[QUOTE]
“An extensive bibliographic search was conducted to compile all available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations. The data were then synthesized to reconstruct the population's demographic history using principal components analysis and genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. Both analyses identified an east-west pattern of genetic variation in northern Africa pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Libya and Egypt are also the smallest genetic distances away from European populations. Demic diffusion during the Neolithic period could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe through a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East , but a Mesolithic or older differentiation of the populations into the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand this genetic picture. Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers, the most isolated groups, were the most differentiated, while Arab speakers overall are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. The genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small .” (Population History of North Africa: Evidence from Classical Genetic Markers” Bosch et al. 2005)


you lose again “Nord”… and the study you quote is from 1997, not 2005- you lied and padded the study dates to make it appear more recent.. busted!


7) now lets look at your bogus claim #7- saying that Keita found so-called European metrics…

Even Keita states that “European metric phenotypes, as well intermediate patterns, are found in mid-Holocene Maghreb sites” is Keita being deceitful? Or are you reatards just cherry picking quotes and manipulating them to suit your racist agendas since after all that is what Afrocentrics are good at.

Of course Keita found European metrics but this still does not make your white Egypt claim for two reasons. First the genetic diversity of Africa is so much black populations can show “European” metrics in skulls as part of their built in diversity. Second, you talk about “cherry pickin’ but you conveniently forget to put in the rest of what Keita said. He said that overall, the weight of the data was with Africans. In other studies he also mentions limb proportion studies which show the main cluster is with dark-skinned Africans not whites or Middle easterners, and that includes even northern Egyptians.


Again you fail… “Nord”…


8) Now let’s look at your bogus claim #8- where you use lactose tolerance to claim a “white” North Africa:

We found that the frequency of the -13910T allele predicts the frequency of lactose tolerance in several Eurasian and North African Berber populations but not in most sub-Saharan African populations. Our analyses suggest that contemporary Berber populations possess the genetic signature of a past migration of pastoralists from the Middle East and that they share a dairying origin with Europeans and Asians, but not with sub-Saharan Africans. (“Genetic evidence in support of a shared Eurasian-North African dairying origin” 2005)

The above study can only speak for its sample really because lactose tolerance is old news in Africa. It was developed independently in Africa as noted by recent DNA studies and the link below long ago on ES. So again you fail.

‘North Africa” by the way includes massive parts of Mail, Chad, Niger and the Sudan so any attempts to paint it “white” also fail. Anyone can show some Eurasian gene flow into the region, and we all know it happened, but that doesn’t make North Africa “white”. For decades North Africa has been defined as including Chad, Mali, Niger and the Northern Sudan. The only way you can sustain a “white” north Africa is to conveniently exclude these areas, as well as selectively define away various African peoples as “non african”, but no one is being fooled ace..

here’s a quote from a vaunted “MORE RECENT” report on DNA studies, lol..

A research team led by Dr. Sarah Tishkoff of the University of Maryland has now solved much of the puzzle. After testing for lactose tolerance and genetic makeup among 43 ethnic groups in East Africa, she and her colleagues have found three new mutations, all independent of one another and of the European mutation, that keep the lactase gene permanently switched on. The principal mutation, found among Nilo-Saharan-speaking ethnic groups of Kenya and Tanzania, arose 2,700 to 6,800 years ago, according to genetic estimates, Dr. Tishkoff’s group reports today in the journal Nature Genetics. This fits well with archaeological evidence suggesting that pastoral peoples from the north reached northern Kenya about 4,500 years ago and southern Kenya and Tanzania 3,300 years ago.”
Lactose Tolerance in East Africa Points to Recent Evolution By NICHOLAS WADE, NY Times Science 2006


oooooohhhhhhhhhh…… 2006 study data “supercedes” your 2005 study

And of course the ES link below offers even more research data debunking your claim.
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004540
 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
Brada, I know which post you're talking about. It was by astenb. I'll look for it
 

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Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^Maybe you can run it down. Here's the remainder
of the old White Nord lying thread:

9)) Now lets take your bogus claim #9- a few sub-Saharans at an oasis means a “white Egypt” lol

“since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.”( “Research on ancient DNA in the Near East” Mateusz Baca, Martyna Molak 2008)
Regardless of the date, all the studies consistently show that sub-saharan dna appears to be small and the Molak study was just completed last year! There is NO WAY you Afronuts can refute this, so you bitch about an incorrect date. It doesn’t negate the fact, AFRONUT.

Lol.. Is this all you got ‘Nerd”? what’s there to ‘refute”? All your precious oasis study shows is that, to quote the study: “since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.” Lol… this is earth shattering? That a minor oasis saw some sub-Saharan gene flow? Lol



10) Now let’s take a look at your miscellaneous claims re “white Africa’:

The peopling of northern Africa appears to be conditioned by the barriers imposed to the north by the Mediterranean Sea and to the south by the Sahara Desert, which constrains human movement to an east-west direction. The harsh landscape, in which mountainous areas are surrounded by arid extensions, favors a dispersed, fragmented pattern of of human settlement… Demic diffusion of Neolithic populations from the Fertile Crescent is thought to have homogenized the genetic composition of the European populations (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993, 1994), and it created a major southeast to northwest gradient (Sokal et al. 1991)… population replacement during the Neolithic from the Levant could explain the genetic similarity between Libya, Egypt, and the European populations.” (Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers” Human Biology; Bosch, E; Calafell, F; Perez-Lezaun, et al 2005)

The only thing wrong your “white Egypt” and “white Africa” claim based on this text is that the Sahara was not always a desert. It was a well watered greenbelt in various eras and in various areas, and populations moved back and forth. So the vaunted “East-West movement blockage” is a limited claim indeed. Also your passage says nothing about any Cakazoids taking over North Africa- it says ”thought to have homogenized the genetic composition of the European populations.” It says nothing about a white North Africa. It confines itself to the Europeanized populations that had moved in and what some scholars "thought." Your own source once again undermines you claim Ace. When did Chad Niger, Mali, or the Sudan become “white” in your passage? Most of these areas are above the Sahara and have historically been classified as “North Africa”. Again you fail. As for more recent references: here’s one that is gasp, MORE RECENT than your 2005 reference, and it disputes the alleged population replacement theory. Oooooohhhhhhh… more recent Ace….

[img] http://www.africanamericanculturalcenterpalmcoast.org/historyafrican/beng8.jpg[/img]
--


^^look Nerd look.. recent 2008 date on data from
Keita... doesn't it "supercede" your stuff? lol


11) On your "White Fulani" mix claims:

" that “diversity” you speak so strongly all the time is in reality Caucasian dna that penetrated into deep Africa. Why it shows there is Western Eurasian dna in Fulani yet you insist this is natural black variation? LMAO. DENIAL! 8.1% is a large amount considering the distance it had to travel, yet you want to act like there were no whites in ancient Egypt! Remember slug this is just the maternal dna. I don’t care if that Western Eurasian dna stood at .01% in the Fulani, it is there and that is what accounts for the variation and you no longer need to be confused about their features.

Only one problem “Nord”.. I said quote: “subsets of that diversity flowed out from East Africa to various other parts of Africa and outside Africa..” and I said this in relation to links with east Africa, not your inflowing “wandering Caucasoids”. And we all know ancient Egypt had gene flow from Persians, romans etc etc at various eras of its history. Your attempt to create a bogus strawman point fails miserably. But even if we grant you a white Fulani percentage, your own data makes the “wandering Caucasoid” influx rather less than impressive. Quote from your own reference: The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin , such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total).

So your vaunted cakazoids weigh in at a mere 8%.

ooooohhhhhhhhh……… 8% wandering Caucasoids…. Impressive…..


Looks like you fail again “Nord”… multiple at bats, multiple strikeouts… Isn’t there anyone in
your "Aryan” camp that can get the job done better than you?
Send in fat Madilda!
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Thanks Calabooz post away if you find it, they know they are lying and really do have an agenda I remember the dude saying something like this after his distrought follower threatened to expose him Yeah go ahead and do that how very Jew of you. and Zarahan that was indeed a classic beat down I sometimes wonder if people come here because they are masochistic.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyingass:

keyword: "most of"


click: Mozabite Berbers are 80% African


note: the 30th parallel latitude passes through the middle of Iran. It also passes through:

Egypt, Libya and Algeria


lp

---

Yes, MOST of Africa is tropical with the rest being subtropical. Also, what does Mozabites being 80% African genetically have to do with the fact that some of them, especially those in coastal areas are obviously genetically influenced by non-Africans??

As for the latitude of Iran. Must we go over what the aboriginal Iranians or Elamites looked like again?



More obtuse logic brought to you by Lyingass Productions.
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^lol...
Good pic.
Indeed, as we have often noted, Hanihara sampled
ancient Iranians for his West Asian sample and
and found that they resembled sub-Saharan Africans.


 

---

Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
Brada, is this what you're looking for:




It finally came to me where to find it at.

Euro-centric's are funny
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

Yeah yeah that it heheh this thread had the wrong title this should become a sticky thanks calabooz ur a trooper...
And an ouutstanding job by Astenb.
 

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Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Good job Calabooz..
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Actually it was Astenb who originally found that post, but yeah. LOL

The Eurocentric agenda is based on nothing but fraudulence.


 

---

Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
 
Early Iranian 'saltman' mummy:


I imagine he was mistaken for a true negro every other day...
 

---

Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Actually it was Astenb who originally found that post, but yeah. LOL

The Eurocentric agenda is based on nothing but fraudulence.

---

LOL, Good times!
 

---

Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

Rahotep are you sure you want to use this individual as a some kinda blond Euro prop?? I am giving you a chance here.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^^ LOL Of course there were blondes in ancient Iran associated with later Aryan speakers as there are today in Iran as well as Afghanistan etc. The question is what the hell does they have to do with the [b]aboriginal[/i] people?? By the way, what is the date of that blonde haired man?? Is his hair naturally blonde or was it altered since he is labeled as a "salt mummy" and we all know what long-term natron exposure does to hair?? Is there something you know Brada??
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

FACT 1. Most of Africa is tropical with some portions being subtropical.

FACT 2. Because of the following fact.....

---

keyword: "most of"


click: Mozabite Berbers are 80% African


note: the 30th parallel latitude passes through the middle of Iran. It also passes through:

Egypt, Libya and Algeria


lp

---

1. bni touzine
2. metalsa
3. bni buyahyi
4. bni said
5. temsaman
6. bni waryager
7. bni bu yafar
8. bni ulichek
9. bacuya
10. geznaya
11. ouled stut
12. kebdana`
13. bni sicar
14. terguist
15. bni iteft
16. bni bufrah
17. mestasa
18. bni erzin
19. metiua
20. bni smih
21. bni guerir
22. bni buzara
23. bni khalid
24. bni ahmed
25. bni zerwal
26. ketama
27. senhadja srir
28. bni buchibet
29. bni bechir
30. bni amart
31. geznaya
32. bni bu ifrur
33. bni sidel
34. ulad stut
35. mazuza
37. tafersit



 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 


The head (left) and leg (right) of a naturally made mummy found in 2004 display "salt-cured" skin and yellowish hair after spending centuries in an Iranian salt mine. The remains belong to one of five mummies found in the mine between 1993 and 2005. Last month an international team announced the discovery of a sixth salt man from the mine, and the experts say more could eventually be unearthed.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/3020824.html

Yup some other retard Cassiterides tried to pull the same sh!t not too long ago
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004326
What these jokers gotta understand is if you post a link or source the not too lazy amongst us will check.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:


Yup some other retard Cassiterides tried to pull the same sh!t not too long ago

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti/realhistory.com:


As for the latitude of Iran. Must we go over what the aboriginal Iranians or Elamites looked like again?

---

must we?
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

I perfer the culud version ma self lioness..these guys didn't go to no tanning salon all Natural
 

---

Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
*yawn*

Another retarded thread that is self-therapeutic psychological projection by a Euronut.

If the concept of ancient Egypt being black African is such "bullsh|t" then why have any of you jerk-offs been unable to refute it??

We've posted countless studies from mainstream scholars from archaeologists, linguistics, and physical anthropologists and geneticists alike.

You can see a summary of the evidence here and yet not any piece fails to be refuted. Why is that??

Can any White Nerds and Confirmed Nuts and others usurping African names refute any of these tidbits alone?

Abbas S. Mohammed-Ali1, and Abdel-Rahim M. Khabir
African Archaeological Review, Vol. 20, No. 1, March 2003
From the chronological standpoint, it seems that the overall radiometric dates of the early ceramics from the Central Nile Valley are generally in accordance with their counterpart in the Sahara-Sahel Belt, dated to the tenth–eighth millennium bp. (eighth–sixth millenium BC). These dates may suggest that pottery developed locally from early prototypes as early as 10,000 bp. The origin(s) of the wavy line and dotted wavy line ceramics is much more complex than was once thought. The reason(s) behind the invention of pottery lies mainly in the need for containers that permit wider uses of food techniques than is otherwise possible, as well as other different sets of advantages for the general mode of living (Arnold, 1985, pp. 127–166). The invention of pottery and harpoons are critical events in the process that led to the expansion of aquatic resource exploitation, as is manifested in the Nile Valley (see supra; Haaland, 1995; Sutton, 1974, pp. 529–531). Also, the Sahara-Sahel Belt might have only opened up for the kind of resource exploitation that necessitates the invention of ceramics by the early Holocene (see Clark, 1980; Hassan, 1986).


The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.--Joseph O. Vogel (1997)

On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations (Morant, 1935 G. Morant, A study of predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari based on measurements taken by Miss BN Stoessiger and Professor DE Derry, Biometrika 27 (1935), pp. 293–309.Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. (Hassan, 1986) and (Hassan, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990).-- Godde (2009)

"During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. .. Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
--(A-M Mekota and M Vermehren. (2005) Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues. Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, Vol. 80, No. 1, Pages 7-13

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Actually what you say is the lie that is deliberately propagated by Eurocentrists.

FACT 1. Most of Africa is tropical with some portions being subtropical.

FACT 2. Because of the following fact above there is no such thing as indigenous whites.

FACT 3. Berber strictly speaking is a culturo-linguistic group and it is a fallacy to identify Berber with whites only since a good portion of Berber peoples are still black just as the original proto-Berbers were, since Berber is indigenous to Africa and Facts 1 & 2. stated above.

FACT 4. The only reason for the existence of lighter skinned or even 'white' types in Africa is due to immigrations from Europe and elsewhere across the Mediterranean. It's funny how when blacks are found in North Africa they are assumed to be recent arrivals from "Sub-Sahara" but never the whites who are descendants of European slaves etc.

Thus the whole notion of white indigenes collapses. [/QB]

---

Umm in most of the coastal areas of North Africa, the climate is similar to that of Southern Europe. And for this reason European settlers have lived comfortably in North Africa since ancient times up until the recent colonies of France in Algeria and Morocco etc..It's practically Europe's backyard.

I wouldn't say Berbers were all White. I have known a few in France. Some are more European looking and others look mixed. But the majority are more or less Middle Eastern looking.

But the fact is Eurasians did Estbalish themselves in North Africa long ago since at least the last glacial maximum. And Blacks have moved south ever since the Sahara dried up as Eurasians have been pushing southward. This is why you find so few Blacks in North Africa Today. Most of the ones you do find where brought there during the slave trade under Islamic rule. This is documented. The White Europeans slaves where sent all over the Arab world. in any case they would have been arabized and absorbed by the population in major urban centers. It is doubtful they would have ended up in some remote Berber village such as in the Rif Mountians were some of the fairest skinned Berbers come from. Think about it.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Uh, first of all coastal North Africa is similar to southern Europe but not the same as it is still at lower latitudes. The climate of coastal southern Africa is also similar to that southern Europe which is why its climate is called "Meditteranean" as well. Also where is the evidence that Europeans established themselves in North Africa during the LGM??! Can you cite any evidence of this?? The earliest evidence of whites in North Africa date back to at least the Iron Age judging by Egyptian records. On the other hand we have proof of black Africans in Europe since at least the neolithic as shown by skeletal remains as well as haplogroup E.

Also who says there are "few" blacks in North Africa?? There are actually plenty of blacks in North Africa it is whites that are the minority, as even the vast majority of Berbers in the coast are obviously of mixed so-called "mulatto" in appearance!
 

---

Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
 
rahotep101

quote:

---

What is that supposed to prove, pray tell?

---

It proves that your are waste your time, considering the fact that there are millions of Black Egyptians living in Egypt today.


Perahu

quote:

---

Caucasoid is a genetic reality

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
This is probably the best image you have ever posted, good work Watson, finally starting to post Dark Skinned Egyptians..

More Representation of Egyptian Reddish Brown

quote:

---

Originally posted by rahotep101:

---

[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
9)) Now lets take your bogus claim #9- a few sub-Saharans at an oasis means a;white Egypt; lol

---

quote:

---

since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.( “Research on ancient DNA in the Near East” Mateusz Baca, Martyna Molak 2008)
Regardless of the date, all the studies consistently show that sub-saharan dna appears to be small and the Molak study was just completed last year! There is NO WAY you Afronuts can refute this, so you bitch about an incorrect date. It doesn’t negate the fact, AFRONUT.

Lol.. Is this all you got ‘Nerd”? what’s there to ‘refute”? All your precious oasis study shows is that, to quote the study: “since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.” Lol… this is earth shattering? That a minor oasis saw some sub-Saharan gene flow? Lol

---

quote:

---

10) Now let’s take a look at your miscellaneous claims re “white Africa’:

The peopling of northern Africa appears to be conditioned by the barriers imposed to the north by the Mediterranean Sea and to the south by the Sahara Desert, which constrains human movement to an east-west direction. The harsh landscape, in which mountainous areas are surrounded by arid extensions, favors a dispersed, fragmented pattern of of human settlement… Demic diffusion of Neolithic populations from the Fertile Crescent is thought to have homogenized the genetic composition of the European populations (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993, 1994), and it created a major southeast to northwest gradient (Sokal et al. 1991)… population replacement during the Neolithic from the Levant could explain the genetic similarity between Libya, Egypt, and the European populations.” (Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers” Human Biology; Bosch, E; Calafell, F; Perez-Lezaun, et al 2005)

---

quote:

---

The only thing wrong your “white Egypt” and “white Africa” claim based on this text is that the Sahara was not always a desert.

---

quote:

---

It was a well watered greenbelt in various eras and in various areas, and populations moved back and forth. So the vaunted “East-West movement blockage” is a limited claim indeed.

---

quote:

---

Also your passage says nothing about any Cakazoids taking over North Africa- it says ”thought to have homogenized the genetic composition of the European populations.” It says nothing about a white North Africa. It confines itself to the Europeanized populations that had moved in and what some scholars "thought."

---

quote:

---

Your own source once again undermines you claim Ace.

---

quote:

---

When did Chad Niger, Mali, or the Sudan become “white” in your passage?

---

quote:

---

Most of these areas are above the Sahara and have historically been classified as “North Africa”.

---

quote:

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Again you fail. As for more recent references: here’s one that is gasp, MORE RECENT than your 2005 reference, and it disputes the alleged population replacement theory. Oooooohhhhhhh… more recent Ace….

---

quote:

---

^^look Nerd look.. recent 2008 date on data from
Keita... doesn't it "supercede" your stuff? lol

---

quote:

---

11) On your "White Fulani" mix claims:

" that “diversity” you speak so strongly all the time is in reality Caucasian dna that penetrated into deep Africa. Why it shows there is Western Eurasian dna in Fulani yet you insist this is natural black variation? LMAO. DENIAL! 8.1% is a large amount considering the distance it had to travel, yet you want to act like there were no whites in ancient Egypt! Remember slug this is just the maternal dna. I don’t care if that Western Eurasian dna stood at .01% in the Fulani, it is there and that is what accounts for the variation and you no longer need to be confused about their features.

Only one problem “Nord”.. I said quote: “subsets of that diversity flowed out from East Africa to various other parts of Africa and outside Africa..” and I said this in relation to links with east Africa,

---

quote:

---

not your inflowing “wandering Caucasoids”.

---

quote:

---

And we all know ancient Egypt had gene flow from Persians, romans etc etc at various eras of its history.

---

quote:

---

Your attempt to create a bogus strawman point fails miserably. But even if we grant you a white Fulani percentage, your own data makes the “wandering Caucasoid” influx rather less than impressive. Quote from your own reference: The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin , such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total).

---

quote:

---

So your vaunted cakazoids weigh in at a mere 8%.

---

quote:

---

Looks like you fail again “Nord”… multiple at bats, multiple strikeouts… Isn’t there anyone in
your "Aryan” camp that can get the job done better than you?
Send in fat Madilda!

---

quote:

---

Obviously the outdated excuse is a lame attempt to dismiss the information. There are no studies that directly refute any of the above information that I posted.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Iah:
Boy this ones got you in a bind. Feeling insecure and covering it with multiple "lol's" will do you no good, as it's a reflection of your insecurites. It's all you've got. A "minor" oasis should have seen major Sub Saharan gene flow considering its location and all the time in the world to acquire it. I mean, this is Africa right where you clowns claim only blacks inhabited Africa until recently but apparently blacks did not inhabit this portion of the southern Egyptian desert until recently. Habitation started there during the Pleistocene, and increased during the Holocene when the desert became dryer, so wouldn't be considered "minor" as it sustained populations who were dependent on it for survival. It is lacking in Sub Saharan dna until Roman times. So how did that Caucasoid dna get there before Roman times, before Sub Saharans? Keep up your denials, it's fun watching you squirm.

"Dakhleh was occupied before and during the early Egyptian Neolithic and Predynastic periods, and so has a role in understanding the rise of the Egyptian state."

Dakhela Oasis

No wonder you are eager to dismiss it.

---

quote:

---

That's not the issue here. The Sahara became a desert around 4,000 to 5,000 years ago, the rains ceased to their present levels. The article is discussing the NEOLITHIC which is about the time Egypt was becoming populated and the climate/environment changed.

---

quote:

---

Naturally to you it is, since you're head over heels in denial, but not according to the analysis of the findings. It says nothing about "East-West movement blockage" but it does say "which constrains human movement to an east-west direction. so that is a falsification on your part.

"The Sahara was a strong geographical barrier against gene flow, at least since 5,000 years ago, when desertification affected a larger region" Harich et al, 2010)

---

quote:

---

The passage certainly says nothing about any negroids taking over North Africa does it? It says "population replacement during the Neolithic from the Levant could explain the genetic similarity between Libya, Egypt, and the European populations.”

Neolithic>Levant>genetic similarity

Funny how you completely dismiss it.

---

quote:

---

"The interpolation analyses and complete sequencing of present mtDNA sub-Saharan lineages observed in North Africa support the genetic impact of recent trans-Saharan migrations, namely the slave trade initiated by the Arab conquest of North Africa in the seventh century. Saharan people did not leave traces in the North African maternal gene pool for the time of its settlement, some 40,000 years ago." (Harich et al, 2010)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Iah:
The point made, is that there were Caucasoids in Africa and it certainly reflected in the Fulani no matter how miniscule you think it was. But that is based on Fulani mtDNA. Now for Ydna:

"The Fulani, who possess the lowest population size in this study, have an interesting genetic structure, effectively consisting of two haplogroups or founding lineages. One of the lineages is R-M173 (53.8%), and its sheer frequency suggests either a recent migration of this group to Africa and/or a restricted gene flow due to linguistic or cultural barriers. The high frequency of sub-clade E-V22, which is believed to be northeast African (Cruciani et al., 2007) and haplogroup R-M173, suggests an amalgamation of two populations/cultures that took place sometime in the past in eastern or central Africa. This is also evident from the frequency of the ‘‘T’’ allele of the lactase persistence gene that is uniquely present in considerable frequencies among the Fulani (Mulcare et al.,2004). Interestingly, Fulani language is classified in the Niger-Congo family of languages which is more prevalent in West Africa and among Bantu speakers, yet their Y-chromosomes show very little evidence of West African genetic affiliation. (“Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History” Cavalli-Sforza et al 2008

---

quote:

---

Now, where is a paper that refutes Cavalli-Sforza's 2008 study on the Fulani possessing 58% R-M173? Do you even have one?

---

quote:

---

A role in the rise of the Egyptian state, but no Sub Saharan input til Roman times. That's is a damming blow to your ideology and also explains why you're so speechless as well.

---

Sub-Saharan Gene flow->Ancient

On the other hand, European gene flow didn't come in until the late period LOL!

Not to mention sub-Saharan Africans populated North Africa:

Molecular studies on the Y chromosome in
North Africa are interpreted as indicating that the southern part of Africa, namely,
the Horn/East Africa, was a major source of population in the Nile Valley and
northwest Africa after the Last Glacial Maximum, with some migration into the
Near East and southern Europe (Bosch et al. 2001; Underhill et al. 2001).--Frigi et al. 2010
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
*yawn* Perhaps a thread should be created entitled 'Why do Euro-Nuts continuously post their tired, DEBUNKED, Bullshit across the internet, and especially this forum??'.

Even these new trolls like IyamStupid are too easy fodder for the likes of us.
 

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Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
All I can say to this nonsense of Fulanis having Eurasian genes and therefore being mixed is that its WRONG.

In Cameroon where the Sudanese Fulbe are from, you find many ethnic groups with R1. The highest recorded being in the Uldeme who have R1 at over 90%+. This gene does NOT mean that fula are mixed Africans because we know that in Cameroon Africans with the socalled "true negro" phenotype have this gene. This new poster really needs to educate himself on African diversity.

Peace
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundiata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
How come Rameses is said to have natural red hair? Could he have been a white pharaoh? They examined his hair and concluded that he was born a red head.

---

I don't know but there are many threads on Ramses attesting to his obscure origins. Linguistic dissimilarities are noted in the form of him giving one of his daughters a non-Egyptian/Semitic name and Cranio-Facial patterns even show a definite non-affinity with Egyptians of the previous dynasty leading into question that maybe the Ramsoids were of at least partly foreign extraction.

"Description of X-ray images of Royal Mummies in X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies"

quote:

---

Ramesses II

Father: Seti I, Mother: Queen Mut-Tuy
Rounded forehead with sagittal plateau. Slight, rounded glabella. Proclined upper incisors; receding chin with high ANB. Rather long ramus with weak inclination of mandible. Orthognathous.

---

Compared to say:

quote:

---

"The Elder Lady"

First identified as Queen Tiye

The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.

---

"In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity,
while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.

Though see this as well, since it should be informative and much of it was already covered by Rasol via Ausar.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/hair2.html

And:

Was Ramses II a Redhead?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Calabooz':

Now, did you bother to read said study? Because if you did, you would realize that they used the HpaI 3592 marker which does not test for the most ancient sub-Saharan lineage in north Africa- i.e., L3. Only L1 and L2. Therefore giving unreliable results. More info on this in a sec

---

quote:

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And the period when sub-Saharan influence was greatest in north Africa was BEFORE there was a Sahara. Again I must repeat the fact that even the cited article by yourself says: "At least since 5,000 years ago".

---

quote:

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And the period when sub-Saharan influence was greatest in north Africa was BEFORE there was a Sahara.

---

quote:

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And as I pointed out, sub-Saharan gene flow into the Nile Valley region was PRE-Neolithic era (Mesolithic and before). How do we know? Because a more RECENT article has shown this to be the case:

---

quote:

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In the present work, mtDNA data show a diversified distribution of African haplogroups. However, a question remains concerning the date of the sub-Saharan African inputs.

Our results demonstrate an ancient local evolution in Tunisia of some African haplogroups (L2a, L3*, and L3b). The most ancient haplogroup is L3*, which would have been introduced from eastern sub-Saharan populations to North Africa about 20,000 years ago. The Siwa oasis sample studied by Coudray et al. (2009) contains sub-Saharan haplogroups L0a1, L3i, L4*, and L4b2, which are different from our Tunisian samples, in agreement with the heterogeneity of Berbers already shown in Tunisia. --Frigi et al. 2010

Which brings me to the point I was raising earlier.

---

quote:

---

The article you mentioned did not test for L3 which we now know to have been introduced in ancient times. The same Frigi et al. goes on to say:

---

quote:

---

Our results also point to a less ancient western African gene flow to Tunisiainvolving haplogroups L2a and L3b. Thus the sub-Saharan contribution to northern
Africa starting from the east would have taken place **before the Neolithic**. The western African contribution to North Africa should have occurred **before the Sahara’s formation (15,000 years BP)**. It seems likely that an expansion would have taken place in the Sahel zone starting about the time of a gradual climatic return to wetter conditions, when the Senegal River cut through the dunes (Burke et al.
1971). For subhaplogroup L2a1 (data not shown) we found some haplotypes that the Tunisian Berbers shared with Mauritanians and western sub-Saharan populations speaking a Niger-Congo language (studied by Salas et al. 2002).--Frigi et al. 2010

---

quote:

---

So even the west African input was pre-Neolithic. And this is a time when there were WETTER conditions. You are speaking about the return of desert conditions.

---

quote:

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The passage certainly says nothing about any negroids taking over North Africa does it? It says "population replacement during the Neolithic from the Levant could explain the

genetic similarity between Libya, Egypt, and the European populations.”

Neolithic>Levant>genetic similarity

Funny how you completely dismiss it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I mean with outdated material. There is no genetic similarity with Egypt and Libya and ancient Egyptians certainly did not have an affinity with Europeans.

---

quote:

---

The most recent article from the American Journal of Physical Anthropology:

"The distribution of subsets of haplogroups U6 and M1 also suggests the presence of a discontinuity between Libya and Egypt, separating western North Africa from eastern North Africa. Even if both haplogroups are thought to have been carried by a back-to-Africa migrationfrom the Near East, significant increased U6 frequencies have been detected in the West compared to the East. The network of all U6 sequences found in the database presents two nodes with star-like shape, U6a* and U6a1. In a similar way, M1a1 is the node with starlike
topology in haplogroup M1, and the node where
most of the eastern sequences are found."
--Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2011

---

quote:

---

What genetic similarity you talking bout!

---

quote:

---

This also shows on the Y chromosome data where the main Northwest African genetic variant E-M81 only reaches 10% in Egypt!

---

quote:

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"The interpolation analyses and complete sequencing of present mtDNA sub-Saharan lineages observed in North Africa support the genetic impact of recent trans-Saharan migrations, namely the slave trade initiated by the Arab conquest of North Africa in the seventh century. Saharan people did not leave traces in the North African maternal gene pool for the time of its settlement, some 40,000 years ago." (Harich et al, 2010)
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As you can see from the more RECENT article I cited above (Frigi et al) Harich et al. has been DEBUNKED

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Originally posted by Iah:
The point made, is that there were Caucasoids in Africa and is certainly reflected in the Fulani no matter how miniscule you think it was. But that is based on Fulani mtDNA.
Now for Ydna:

"The Fulani, who possess the lowest population size in this study, have an interesting genetic structure, effectively consisting of two haplogroups or founding lineages. One of the lineages is R-M173 (53.8%), and its sheer frequency suggests either a recent migration of this group to Africa and/or a restricted gene flow due to linguistic or cultural barriers. The high frequency of sub-clade E-V22, which is believed to be northeast African (Cruciani et al., 2007) and haplogroup R-M173, suggests an amalgamation of two populations/cultures that took place sometime in the past in eastern or central Africa. This is also evident from the frequency of the ‘‘T’’ allele of the lactase persistence gene that is uniquely present in considerable frequencies among the Fulani (Mulcare et al.,2004). Interestingly, Fulani language is classified in the Niger-Congo family of languages which is more prevalent in West Africa and among Bantu speakers, yet their Y-chromosomes show very little evidence of West African genetic affiliation. (“Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History” Cavalli-Sforza et al 2008
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You don't understand that they are only speaking of ONE group of the Fulani in SUDAN.

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Other Fulani groups yield different results which is why Keita et al. responded to Hassan et al:

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Hassan et al.’s (2008, p 321) suggestion of a non-African origin for the Fulani is a direct extrapolation based on the predominance (53.8%) of the R1*M173 lineage (an M89 lineage) in a single sample (n 5 26) from Sudan. However, analyses of other samples of Fulani give different results. Here, Y chromosome lineages are discussed in terms of their major markers, which will be understood to include downstream derivatives. For example, M35 will be used to mean both M35* and its derivatives M35/M81, M35/78, etc. In one sample from Guinea Bissau (n 5 59), the markers and frequencies are as follows: M2 275.6%, M35 213.6%, M33 26.8%, and 1.7% each of M75, M91, and M89-derived lineages (Rosa et al., 2007). In another study, based primarily on TaqI 49a, f variants, which can be ‘‘translated’’ into biallelic counterparts, a Fulani (called Peul) sample (n 5 54) from Burkina Faso has these frequencies: M2%–50%, M35 222.1% lineages (Lucotte et al., 2007). A small sample (n 5 20) of Fulbe from one area of the Cameroons has the M33 (E1*) lineage at a frequency of 52% (Scozzari et al., 1997, 1999). Hassan et al.’s sample also has a high percentage of M35 (34.6%). The mix of M2 and M35 lineages, both derivatives of P2 (or PN2) (see dendrogram in Hassan et al.), may reflect the sahara/sahel having served as an interaction zone of populations— a metapopulation which shuffled lineages—in the wetter periods of the early Holocene (Keita, 2005a; Kuper and Kropelin, 2006). The M2 lineage is sometimes almost characterized as being found only associated with the Niger Congo language phylum (Hassan et al., 321), of which Bantu is a subgroup. M2 lineages are found in populations languages from non-Bantu Niger Congo, Nilo-Saharan, and Afro-Asiatic phyla [see discussion in Keita (2005a)], and in high frequencies in West Africa including the Senegambia region Scozzari, 1997, 1999; Lucotte et al., 2007; Rosa et al., 2007).Source: Keita et al. 2010: Letter to the Editor: Commentary on the Fulani—History, Genetics, and Linguistics, an Adjunct to Hassan et al., 2008

BTW, Hassan is the main contributor to that article, so it should be HASSAN ET AL. and not Cavalli-Sforza et al

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Now, where is a paper that refutes Cavalli-Sforza's 2008 study on the Fulani possessing 58% R-M173? Do you even have one?
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The frequencies of R1* in the Fulani likely experienced what we call, GENETIC DRIFT. And it doesn't need to be refuted if that sample of Fulani is not representative of all the Fulani

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A role in the rise of the Egyptian state, but no Sub Saharan input til Roman times. That's is a damming blow to your ideology and also explains why you're so speechless as well.
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Sub-Saharan Gene flow->Ancient

On the other hand, European gene flow didn't come in until the late period LOL!

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Not to mention sub-Saharan Africans populated North Africa:

Molecular studies on the Y chromosome in
North Africa are interpreted as indicating that the southern part of Africa, namely,
the Horn/East Africa, was a major source of population in the Nile Valley and
northwest Africa after the Last Glacial Maximum, with some migration into the
Near East and southern Europe (Bosch et al. 2001; Underhill et al. 2001).--Frigi et al. 2010

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Originally posted by Iah:
Which is all the evidence needed to establish the fact that Caucasoids penetrated deep into the region (among other findings).

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Originally posted by Iah:
Diversion. We're not talking about other groups.

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Originally posted by Iah:
And notice, Keita (like you) couldn't refute that study, instead he mocks it as a "suggestion" and completey diverts by injecting some other population. Other geneticists demonstrate similar findings:

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Originally posted by Iah:
Lokki et al 2011: "One novel DNA polymorphism, C/T-13906, in the immediate proximity of the main European mutation, was found in six of the Fulani samples... Among the 162 Fulani genotyped, the major Caucasian mutation C/T-13910 was by far the most common polymorphism"

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Originally posted by Iah:
Tishkoff et al. 2009: "Fulani, and eastern Afroasiatic speakers exhibit low to moderate levels of European–Middle Eastern ancestry, consistent with possible gene flow from those regions."

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Originally posted by Iah:
Cerny et al, 2006: "The haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin, such as J1b, U5, H, and V, were also detected but in rather low frequencies (8.1% in total).”

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Originally posted by Iah:
Paganotti et al 2004: "the Fulani are nomadic pastoralists recently settled in west Africa and supposed to have a Caucasoid origin" .

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Originally posted by Iah:
In other words, no, you do not have a study that refutes Cavalli-Sforza's 2008 study so you can't refute it, (neither did Keita) so instead you react by directing us to some other population group not related to this one. just like how you completely deviated in the previous post.

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Originally posted by Iah:
And LOL @ "genetic drift" another inexcusable attempt at denial, at nearly 60% it's not. It's a FOUNDING lineage:

"The Fulani, who possess the lowest population size in this study, have an interesting genetic structure, effectively consisting of two haplogroups or founding lineages " Cavalli-Sforza et al 2008

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Originally posted by Iah:
Fulvio Cruciani 2010

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Originally posted by Iah:
Your sources only mention Tunisia and Siwa Berbers, not ancient Egyptians. The only one to mention European gene flow is you. But let's see what your source, Frigi et al 2010 said that you apparently ignored or didn't read:

"The dates for subhaplogroups H1 and H3 (13,000 and 10,000 years, respectively) in Iberian and North African populations allow for this possibility. Kefi et al.’s (2005) data on ancient DNA could be viewed as being in agreement with such a presence in North Africa in ancient times (about 15,000–6,000 years ago) and with the fact that the North African populations are considered by most scholars as having their closest relations with European and Asian populations " (Cherni et al. 2008; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Kefi et al. 2005; Rando et al. 1998). Frigi et al 2010

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Originally posted by Iah:
And then your source Fadhlaoui-Zid 2011:

"most haplogroups in North Africa are of Eurasian origin (Rando et al., 1998; Krings et al., 1999; Plaza et al., 2003; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2004; Harich et al., 2010). Some can be traced to ancient Paleolithic times (such as haplogroups U6, M1b, which are almost specific of northern African populations); however, some maternal lineages have been recently acquired from Europe or the Middle East (such as haplogroups U5, V, R0a, J1b, U3) (Maca-Meyer et al., 2003; Olivieri et al., 2006; Gonzalez et al., 2007).

Your source Fadhlaoui-Zid references Maca-Meyer et al 2003 (above) who in turn states:

"The most probable origin of the proto-U6 lineage was the Near East. Around 30,000 years ago it spread to North Africa where it represents a signature of regional continuity. Subgroup U6a reflects the first African expansion from the Maghrib returning to the east in Paleolithic times. Derivative clade U6a1 signals a posterior movement from East Africa back to the Maghrib and the Near East. This migration coincides with the probable Afroasiatic linguistic expansion. U6b and U6c clades, restricted to West Africa, had more localized expansions. U6b probably reached the Iberian Peninsula during the Capsian diffusion in North Africa.

Attested presence of Caucasian people in Northern Africa goes up to Paleolithic times. From the archaeological record it has been proposed that, as early as 45,000 years ago (ya), anatomically modern humans, most probably expanded the Aterian stone industry from the Maghrib into most of the Sahara [1]. More evolved skeletal remains indicate that 20,000 years later the Iberomaurusian makers, replaced the Aterian culture in the coastal Maghrib. Several hypothesis have been forwarded concerning the Iberomaurusian origin. They can be resumed in those which propose an arrival, from the East, either from the Near East or Eastern Africa, and those which point to west Mediterranean Europe, either from the Iberian Peninsula, across the Gibraltar Strait, or from Italy, via Sicily, as their most probable homeland [2]. Between 10,000 and 6,000 ya the Neolithic Capsian industry flourished farther inland. The historic penetration in the area of classical Mediterranean cultures, ending with the Islamic domination, supposed a strong cultural influx.

Linguistic research suggests that the Afroasiatic phylum of languages could have originated and extended with these Caucasians, either from the Near East or Eastern Africa and that posterior developments of the Capsian Neolithic in the Maghrib might be related to the origin and dispersal of proto-Berber speaking people into the area.

From a mtDNA point of view, the most informative of these genetic markers is the North African clade U6. On the basis of complete mtDNA sequences, it has been proposed that U6 lineages, mainly found in North Africa, are the signatures of a return to Africa around 39,000–52,000 ya [8]. This stresses the importance of its detailed study in order to trace one of the earliest Caucasian arrivals to Africa. Although in moderate frequencies, the geographic range of this clade extends from the Near East to the Canary Islands, along the Atlantic shores of Northwest Africa and from the Sahel belt, including Ethiopia, to the southern Mediterranean rim.

The fact that 5 of the 8 U6a haplotypes detected in the Near East are unique of this area (Fig. ?(Fig.2),2), points to prehistoric demic movements as the most probable cause of the U6a Africa to Asia migration, although historic events cannot be completely ruled out. In frame with the estimated age of U6a are archaeological data supporting early migrations from Africa into the Near East [26]. The expansion of Caucasians in Africa has been correlated with the spread and diversification of Afroasiatic languages.

In summary, the phylogeography, nucleotide diversity, and coalescence ages of U6 lineages show that this clade came back to Africa in Paleolithic times. Its most probable origin was the Near East and not Europe, and since then, its presence in North Africa has been permanent. The focus of the first African expansion, detected by the spread of U6a, was Northwest Africa reaching the Near East also in the Paleolithic.[/B] The posterior U6a1 radiation most probably occurred in Northeast Africa again extending to the Near East. This movement is correlated in time with the attributed origin and expansion of Afroasiatic languages. This U6a1 wave also arrived to the Maghrib, the Northwest African margin, where the more localized U6b and U6c lineages were spreading.

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Originally posted by Iah:
Your source Fadhlaoui-Zid references Olivieri et al 2006 (above) who in turn states:

Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa. Thus, the early Upper Palaeolithic population(s) carrying M1 and U6 did not return to Africa along the southern coastal route of the “out of Africa” exit, but from the Mediterranean area; and the North African Dabban and European Aurignacian industries derived from a common Levantine source.

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Originally posted by Iah:
Saudi Arabs had only a minority sub-Saharan Africa component (7%), similar to the specific North-African contribution (5%).

Egyptians were aligned in the cluster of Near East populations. /// The first component separated all the Near East populations from a cluster including Egyptians and other east African groups. The majority of L haplogroups, pulling positively, and haplogroup H, pulling negatively, were predominantly responsible for this split. The second component divided the Near East cluster into three groups. The first comprised northeastern populations characterized by higher frequencies of H haplogroups and absence of L haplogroups. The second combined the Levantine population with Egypt, and the three Arabian Peninsula samples were left in a third group.

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Originally posted by Iah:
And then there is Ottoni et al in Mitochondrial Haplogroup H1 in North Africa: An Early Holocene Arrival from Iberia (yes that's Europe) 2010 who states:

"the maternal pool of Northern Africa appears to be characterized by at least two other major components: (i) a Levantine contribution (i.e. haplogroups U6 and M1, [11]), associated with the return to Africa around 45 kya, and (ii) a more recent West European input associated with the postglacial expansion. Overall, the results of this study support the hypothesis that most of the West Eurasian maternal contribution detectable in Northwest African populations is likely linked to prehistoric (i.e. the post-glacial expansion from the Iberian Peninsula) rather than more recent historic events [26], [27], [37]." these H1 sub-clades most likely arose in North Africa after the arrival of the H1 European founder sequence, corresponding to the H1 node in Figure 1...Coalescence time estimates suggest an arrival of the European H1 mtDNAs at about 8,000–9,000 years ago.....Evidence of trans-Mediterranean contacts between Northern Africa and Western Europe has been assessed at the level of different genetic markers (e.g. [21], [22], [23], [24])."

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Originally posted by Iah:
Which is confirmed and complimented by an older study:

“We show that the main indigenous North African cluster is a sister group to the most ancient cluster of European mtDNAs, from which it diverged »50,000 years ago.” (“The Emerging Tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: A Synthesis of Control-Region Sequences and RFLPs” Institute of Molecular Medicine, University of Oxford)

All these dates predate your recent (A.D.) trans-Saharan slave empire.

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Originally posted by Iah:
All of this equates to a damning blow to your ideology, especially in light of the fact that you won't, no, you couldn't even refute it.

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Originally posted by Iah:
And you failed in any way shape or form to refute the information on the Fulani. Don't waste my time. All you offer is constant diversion and diversion is a tactic of the delusional.

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Originally posted by Iah:
Paleolithic Horner's are not the same population as today's Horner's and there are more than enough genetic studies confirming this in the literature. Not only that, but your own article Frigi (above) states: "This would indicate that the North African populations arose from admixture rather than from local evolution, leading to an intermediate genetic structure between eastern sub-Saharan Africans and Eurasians."

Therefore your own source betrays your idea of a "blacks only" Egypt. And we know from Harich et al, 2010 which is much more detailed exposed those Sub Saharan's in North Africa as being a result of the trans Saharan slave trade.

And you failed in any way shape or form to refute the information on the Fulani. Don't waste my time. All you offer is constant diversion and diversion is a tactic of the delusional.

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Originally posted by Iah:
And we know from Harich et al, 2010 which is much more detailed exposed those Sub Saharan's in North Africa as being a result of the trans Saharan slave trade.

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Quit crying and making up stuff. There is no negroid mtdna until Roman times and this is based on several studies as cited in Molak 2008. The Hpal 3592 marker is represented by L1 & L2 and has a single origin in Sub Sahara (Chen et al. 1995), which means all mtDNA types with this site are classified as southern, meaning L1 and L2 are essentially African specific, which they tested, yet L3 which is characterized by the loss of the HpaI site at np 3592 is ubiquitous, therefore not African specific.

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If you bothered to read the study you would have noticed Molak et al is not discussing North Africa, but the Dakhleh Oasis located in south west Egypt. (North East Africa).

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Sub Saharan markers and its sub clades were tested. Still no Sub Saharan dna found imprinted on this important foundation of Egyptian civilization until Roman times. Case closed.

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The only mtdna Sub Saharan influence comes from L3 which is questionable since it's not African specific. The rest: L1 and L2 are recent.

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L3 most certainly IS African specific mtDNA lineage. To say otherwise is just asinine.

Distribution map:




While it may be true that it isn't exclusive to the African continent, it was most certainly introduced in the Nile Valley from sub-Saharan Africa (people were moving back and forth in those times). What you are insinuating is that there is a possibility that L3 was introduced to Egypt from a non-African source - which in and of itself is ridiculous simply because outside of Africa L3 has negligible frequency being either extremely rare or non-existent (hence the problem in determining the origins of M1). Not to mention the age:

"The presence of mtDNA lineages belonging to the sub-Saharan Africa macrohaplogroup L in Eurasia and America is mainly explained as the result of the historic and infamous slave trade.In the Arabian peninsula, the incidence of L lineages differs according to country. The highest frequency is found in Yemen (38%), then in Oman and Qatar (16%) and drops to 10% in Saudi Arabia and UAE (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). The most probable source of these sub-Saharan Africa lineages is the geographically closest East African border. However, in that large region it is possible to distinguish at least a northern area conformed by Egypt, Nubia, Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia in which, at mtDNA level, the L3 haplogroups have significantly greater frequencies than in the southern area represented by Kenya, Tanzania and Mozambique where, in compensation, the most ancestral haplogroup L0 has comparatively higher frequencies.--Vicente M. Cabrera et al. 2009

You mean to tell me you are for some reason doubting that L3 was introduced from sub-Saharan Africa into Egypt and there is a possibility of a non African source for these lineages in Egypt even though wherever it appears outside Africa is recent?

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The Dakhleh Oasis started coming into use during the drying phase "at least since 5,000 years ago".

"The aim of the study was to characterize the ancient population from the Dakhleh Oasis."

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"In the south-east corner of Dakhleh, various stone-built structures are present; it remains unclear how typical this oasis was for the whole of the Western Desert, but it obviously contains the strongest cultural parallels with the Nile Valley. After 4900BC and especially from 4400BC onwards, the desert became less and less inhabitable because of the onset of the arid climate that continues up to the present day." Oxford History Of Ancient Egypt Ian Shaw 2003

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I seriously doubt that (as we will soon see), and North Africa is irrelevant to the discussion of the Dakhleh Oasis, but look at what you just admitted. Sub Saharan influence BEFORE the Sahara. Not AFTER. You are arguing against yourself.

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And then you post a quote that has nothing to do with the Nile Valley region (below) but Tunisia and Siwa Berbers:

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The mtDNA gene pool of the Siwa Berbers shows affinities to those in the Nile Valley (L lineages and M1) and East Africa.

"Our results highlighted a clear genetic differentiation between Berbers from the Maghreb and **Egyptian Berbers**. The first seems to be more related to European populations as shown by haplogroup H1 and V frequencies, whereas the latter share more affinities with **East African and Nile Valley populations** as indicated by the high frequency of M1 and the presence of L0a1, L3i, L4∗, and L4b2 lineages. Moreover, haplogroup U6 was not observed in Siwa. Probably, such a maternal diversity between North African Berbers would have been the result of a conjunction of several geographical, prehistoric, and historic factors which guided contacts (and thus exchanges) between local populations and migrating groups."--C. Coudray et al. 2009
 

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Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
I don't get why people think the genetic makeup of Northwest African Berbers is pertinent to the peopling of the Nile Valley. Looking at any physical map of Africa will show you that not only is the northern Maghreb cut off from Egypt by miles upon miles of desert but also by the Atlas Mountains:



Even if we allow for the Saharan Wet Phase removing the desert barrier, the hypothetical Wandering Caucasoids would still have to worry about hiking through mountains in order to get to the Nile Valley. It is for this reason that I don't think the northern Maghreb would have donated more than an insignificant trickle of genes to Egypt. That leaves Southwest Asia as pretty much the only plausible candidate for a source of Wandering Caucasoids.
 

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Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
 
Iahtard wrote

quote:

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Which is all the evidence needed to establish the fact that Caucasoids penetrated deep into the region (among other findings).

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The BATWING expansion time estimated for K2 in our Somali population (3.3 ky)is consistent with an African southward dissemination of the K2 haplogroup.

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And notice, Keita (like you) couldn't refute that study, instead he mocks it as a "suggestion" and completey diverts by injecting some other population. Other geneticists demonstrate similar findings

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Strawman, Keita's intent wasn't to refute the findings of R1*-M173, just the Hassan et al's assertion that Fulani have an non-African origin, try reading within context retard.

More to come later, I have to go to work now.
 

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Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Even if we allow for the Saharan Wet Phase removing the desert barrier, the hypothetical Wandering Caucasoids would still have to worry about hiking through mountains in order to get to the Nile Valley. It is for this reason that I don't think the northern Maghreb would have donated more than an insignificant trickle of genes to Egypt. That leaves Southwest Asia as pretty much the only plausible candidate for a source of Wandering Caucasoids.

^^ Indeed. And once again purported studies of "North
Africa" show a strange inconsistency in how they define
the area.



-----------------------------------------------------------------

Calabooz said:
And as you mention Chen et al. Here is what they have to say:

---------------

"arose in Africa and are not the product of genetic admixture with populations from northern Africa, Europe, or Asia. Because of their widespread distribution in sub-Saharan populations, it is most likely that these mtDNAs have an ancient African origin. An African origin of the mtDNAs without the 3592 HpaI site, their similarity to European and Asian mtDNAs, and the absence of mtDNAs defined by the HpaI site at np 3592 in non-African populations, appear to suggest that African mtDNAs without the 3592 HpaI were the only mtDNAs that were carried from Africa by the Homo sapiens sapiens migrations, which ultimately gave rise to modern non-African populations."
--Chen et al. 1995

^^Another good point. The HpaI markers have been
seized on by some to argue for fantasy "white Nubians".
Alack, and alas, Chen's data undermines such rubbish.


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The mtDNA gene pool of the Siwa Berbers shows affinities to those in the Nile Valley (L lineages and M1) and East Africa.

^^Just so..



____________________________________________________________________________________

You do realize that in the paper she says East Africa was a major population source for North Africa AND the Nile Valley which means that she is not treating the Nile Valley as a part of North Africa.

^^lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

L3 most certainly IS African specific mtDNA lineage. To say otherwise is just asinine.

^^lol



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I have no idea what sub-Saharan admixture Saudi Arabia has to do with anything. What I find funny here, is that you emphasize on the 7% sub-Saharan input in Saudi Arabia, yet the Fulani had only 8% Eurasian maternal haplotypes. Why the double standard?

^^Same old racist hypocrisy at work to deny Africans
their biological variability..

-----------------------------------------

That's better since the above mentions M1 which is the predominant clade in the East. However, if you would have realized when I cited Karima et al. 2011, my citation said: EVEN IF THOSE CLADES ARE THOUGHT TO BE BROUGHT FROM EURASIA. It doesn't change the fact that M1 is an East African specific haplogroup and U6 is North African specific. The origin of M1 has yet to be decided.

^^Indeed. We do know as well that M1 appears mostly
in 'sub Saharan' Africa and is rare in Europe and
the 'Middle East.'


 

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Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
 
About Molak et al. (2008) - they themselves do not conduct the research on the ancient specimens. The original article that they mention concludes that any haplotype lacking The Hpal 3592 marker is "Northern" even though as Chen et al. shows, these haplotypes are also common south of the Sahara in groups unlikely to have received them from gene flow. The samples analyzed are actually from the Roman period - which is pretty significant since the mtDNA gene pool in their specimens reveals a heterogeneous profile suggesting influence from contacts etc., thereby not being representative of populations thousands of years earlier during state formation.


Also, aside from the fact of the flawed methods, even their Roman sample contained the Hpal 3592 marker. They then compared this to the current inhabitants (whoever those may be) and concluded that there was an increase this marker influencing the gene frequencies. In order for there to be an increase it must have been present in the pre-existing gene pool.


Your emphasis on Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. referencing Harich et al. is quite ridiculous actually. I admit my wording gets jumbled up sometimes and I make mistakes, but Harich et al.'s conclusions are the exact opposite of Frigi et al. These west African lineages, more common in the west than the East I concur, were likely introduced prior to the Neolithic. Harich et al. state otherwise because they did not observe evidence for local expansions in North Africa - contrary to this, Frigi et al.'s samples from North Africa, with lineages that had a west African origin were divergent from West Africans! This is suggestive of an ancient arrival in North Africa.

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Haplogroup U is named the Europa clan:

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"Libya and Egypt are also the smallest genetic distances away from European populations. Demic diffusion during the Neolithic period could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe through a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East. The genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.” Bosch et al 1997

Bosch et al 1997 also supported by more recent 2005 paper:

"population replacement during the Neolithic from the Levant could explain the genetic similarity between Libya, Egypt, and the European populations.” Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers” Human Biology; Bosch, E; Calafell, F; Perez-Lezaun, et al 2005

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U6 decreases eastwards probably due to gene flow from the Near East as attested for the higher frequencies of H4, H5, H7, H8 and H11 subgroups.

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You're willing to admit there were Caucasoids in the Levant and Caucasoids in Libya, but seem to think Egypt was completely void from them? LOL you think that these haplogroups just managed to hop skip and jump completely over Egypt without leaving any genetic legacy. Unbelievable!

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No source for your 10% claim.

BTW, your wonderful L2a is found in only 5% of Egyptians Kivisild et al., 2004 and E is designated as Eurasian Adam by Spencer Wells.

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And more recently:

"Archaeological studies have revealed cultural connections between the two sides of the Red Sea dating to prehistory. The issue has still not been properly addressed, however, by archaeogenetics. We focus our attention here on the mitochondrial haplogroup HV1 that is present in both the Arabian Peninsula and East Africa. The internal variation of 38 complete mitochondrial DNA sequences (20 of them presented here for the first time) affiliated into this haplogroup testify to its emergence during the late glacial maximum, most probably in the Near East, with subsequent dispersion via population expansions when climatic conditions improved. Detailed phylogeography of HV1 sequences shows that more recent demographic upheavals likely contributed to their spread from West Arabia to East Africa, a finding concordant with archaeological records suggesting intensive maritime trade in the Red Sea from the sixth millennium BC onwards. Closer genetic exchanges are apparent between the Horn of Africa and Yemen, while Egyptian HV1 haplotypes seem to be more similar to the Near Eastern ones." Musilová et al June 9, 2011

"6th millennium BC onwards" : that's right on par with Egypt's state formation.

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"6th millennium BC onwards" : that's right on par with Egypt's state formation.

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Originally posted by Zaharan:
Earlier you still defended the faked dates of the
Bosch study to make your argument more recent.
Caught out in a lie, you now proffer Harich, but that
won't save you. Harich's defined "North Africa" area
as primarily Morocco and he runs a comparison against
other African samples, thus identifying an East West
gradient of haplogroups. QUOTE from Harich:
"Methods- Samples and DNA extraction. Blood samples
were collected from 81 unrelated people from El Jadida,
Morocco, nearly 100 km south of Casablanca."

But "North Africa" is a lot more than Morocco. It is not
surprising that the coastal area near the Mediterranean
and closer to the Iberian penisula, would see less
'sub-Saharan' gene flow from places like Senegal
(a comparison point used by Harich). With such a
sampling scheme, Harich could easily downplay
'sub Saharan' elements in his conclusions.
Misleading sampling is a problem explicitly recognized
in DNA research on North Africa by credible scholars.
Harich repeats the same misleading sampling problem.

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