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I think the first video is mostly Coptic. The second video is Arabic. Most Coptic liturgy tends to have a mixture of Arabic and Coptic.
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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The Egyptian Copts seem to be influenced heavily by Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox. I wonder if Ethiopian Orthodox represents a more Early version of Coptic Christianity. Also to note the Ethiopian Orthodox is probably the closest Church to the Original Church began by Christ, although even they have Roman catholic Influence.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ In terms of oldest to youngest of Christendom, there was the Syrian Church (itself an offshoot of the original Israeli Church), then the Coptic Church, then the Anatolian-Greek Church and Roman Churches from which the rest of Euro-Christendom arises.
What's interesting about the early Coptic Church is that it bears a striking resemblance to Haitian or New World Voodoo where African religious traditions like Egyptian Heka (voodoo) blend with Christianity. Even many of the Saints appear to have originally been deities (Just like in Haitian religion). The early Copts even had magic spells or incantations to invoke the protection of these "saints" and ward of demons.
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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All peoples bleended traditional beliefs with Xtianity including Europeans, Native Americans and Africans.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ In terms of oldest to youngest of Christendom, there was the Syrian Church (itself an offshoot of the original Israeli Church), then the Coptic Church, then the Anatolian-Greek Church and Roman Churches from which the rest of Euro-Christendom arises.
What's interesting about the early Coptic Church is that it bears a striking resemblance to Haitian or New World Voodoo where African religious traditions like Egyptian Heka (voodoo) blend with Christianity. Even many of the Saints appear to have originally been deities (Just like in Haitian religion). The early Copts even had magic spells or incantations to invoke the protection of these "saints" and ward of demons.
ausar Member # 1797
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Jari, what makes you think Coptic theology was influenced by western churches? Just curious how you came to this conclusion. Many Christians mistakenly think the Copts were Monophysites. Most Copts contend they are Miaphysites.
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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From what I observe from the art and the saint images it reminds me of the images when I attended Catholic School. Although I would bet alot of influence came from Byzantium.
Also I just figured out the whole "White Coptic Power" part, most of the Copts in that Vid were Dark, some very Dark skinned..LOL, Yep the Purest decendants of the Egyptians alright
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Jari, what makes you think Coptic theology was influenced by western churches? Just curious how you came to this conclusion. Many Christians mistakenly think the Copts were Monophysites. Most Copts contend they are Miaphysites.
ausar Member # 1797
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Most of the Copts in that youtube video are the ones that donot immigrate to America. Most are not apart of the rich Coptic population.
My theory about the Copts is they are a mixture between pre-Islamic Egyptians and Greco-Romans. Some even might be Egyptianized Syrians,Greeks and Armenians absorbed in the overall population. Both the Egyptian Muslim and Christian populations have absorbed many foreign lineages.
You have Copts that are white and some that are dark like the ones in Luxor and Aswan. Copts,like most Egyptians, are a heterogeneous population.
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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Yes, I agree the Copts are def. decended from the Egyptians as their language is the closest we have to A. Egyptian, but alot of them remind me of the Fayium portraits, Def. a mix of Greeks.
Its great to see African Christians, esp. that alot of the Copts even from Egypt went to Ethiopia and Lalibella as Pilgrims, The Nile Valley africans carved their own Jerusalem.
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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We def. gotta collab on a video about the Copts and Modern Day Egyptians..
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No, I believe those two guys are muslim. However, I have some pictures of Copts from Luxor on my photo bucket.
ausar Member # 1797
posted Some Copts probably either Aswan or Luxor
___Compare with Ahmed Zaki
__Not much different from the people in the video or my photo bucket
MelaninKing Member # 17444
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Jari, what makes you think Coptic theology was influenced by western churches? Just curious how you came to this conclusion. Many Christians mistakenly think the Copts were Monophysites. Most Copts contend they are Miaphysites.
I may be wrong, but wasn't the Bible translated to Coptic before it was translated to Latin? Just asking because a few years ago I attended a Coptic church here in the US and the mass was preformed in Coptic and was informed by the Coptic priest that the Latin and English versions had too many translation errors, and therefore, they would never use them.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
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You guys might find this of interest
British archaeologists are seeking to authenticate what could be a landmark discovery in the documentation of early Christianity: a trove of 70 lead codices that appear to date from the 1st century CE, which may include key clues to the last days of Jesus' life. As UK Daily Mail reporter Fiona Macrae writes, some researchers are suggesting this could be the most significant find in Christian archeology since the Dead Sea scrolls in 1947. The codices turned up five years ago in a remote cave in eastern Jordan—a region where early Christian believers may have fled after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE. The codices are made up of wirebound individual pages, each roughly the size of a credit card. They contain a number of images and textual allusions to the Messiah, as well as some possible references to the crucifixion and resurrection. Some of the codices were sealed, prompting yet more breathless speculation that they could include the sealed book, shown only to the Messiah, mentioned in the Book of Revelation. One of the few sentences translated thus far from the texts, according to the BBC, reads, "I shall walk uprightly"--a phrase that also appears in Revelation. "While it could be simply a sentiment common in Judaism," BBC writer Robert Pigott notes, "it could here be designed to refer to the resurrection."
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Ausar how familiar are you with the history of Coptic Christianity. If Im not mistaken Coptic Christianity is and was contained only to the Nile Valley and the Ethiopian Highlands with Axum. At one time the Ethiopian Orthodox like Christian Nubia was under the Alexandrian Branch and the Leader at Alexandria. Also Egyptians and Nubians would take pilgrimages to Lalibella etc. when the Muslims controlled Jerusalem and cut it off to Xtians.
I have to do more research on Coptic Christianity.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Some Copts probably either Aswan or Luxor
___Compare with Ahmed Zaki
__Not much different from the people in the video or my photo bucket
ausar Member # 1797
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I am familiar enough with early Coptic history or at least enough to refer you to the appropriate research material. Whatever you want to know just ask questions or start a thread on the topic.
One aspect of Coptic history I am ignorant of is how Eritreans and Ethiopians became apart of the Coptic church. I do know that Copts, Ethiopians and Armenians once shared space in Jerusalem. Since then there has been a falling out between Ethiopians and Copts.
Nubians share a deep history with Coptic Christianity. During the middle ages Nubians saved a Coptic pope from persecution by Muslim rulers of Egypt.
AswaniAswad Member # 16742
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Ausar coptic church was start by Mark he is the founder of the Coptic church one of the first ones before Syria.
Abyssinia was already jewish before the first coptic church was built by mark the apostle.
Ausar i dont think coptics ever strayed away from the Monophysite doctrine they are one of the heads of that doctrine along with Abyssinia,and the Jacobite syrians. What u are talking about is the competition between Monophysite, and Dyophysite of which ethiopians and egyptians lead the way.
Sorry to say but that photo u posted of those two women in that coptic church i dont think they are Egyptians but i am certain they are eritrean women look at the natsala she is wearing.
Nobatia,Alwa,and Makuria were nubian christian kingdoms that did not trust eachother. Eventually during the 7th century they all became monophysite and were under the Coptic Patriarch of Alexandria. During Axum invasion of Yemen the Byzantine king gave Axum Beja,and Nubian Mercenaries to fight the yemeni king who was persecuting christians.
Beja,Nubians,Egyptians,Ethiopians, Syrians and Yemeni use to all Be Coptic Christians at one time CRAZY
AswaniAswad Member # 16742
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Copts,Abyssinians,and Syrians did share space in jerusalem. The Abyssinians on the other hand are the oldest christian community living in Jerusalem much older than the jacobites and Egyptian Coptics.
According to Islamic Records when Salahdeen enter jerusalem he said the Abyssinians had the deed to jerusalem in there possesion and was the only nasari community that Salaadeen did not banish out. He also claimed that they out numbered every nasari sect in jerusalem.
According to most jews living in palestine they can never remember a time without a Abyssinian in Jerusalem.
The abyssinian section of jerusalem is still the only one written in arabic with the same seal as the one salaaadin made till this day
ausar Member # 1797
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Modern Copts deny they were ever Monophysites. Infact, most maintain they follow the doctrine of St. Cyril which says Jesus Christ has two natures human and divine united as one.
I kind of figured those two girls were Eritreans. Although they may not be ethnically Coptic but I still consider them as such simply because of the political and spiritual and political links between the two.
From what I have read some Copts have usurped Ethiopians from their own temple. Sorry to hear this. No wonder there is much conflict between the two churches.
AswaniAswad Member # 16742
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The doctrine of St. Cyril is the same as monophysite its one nature. No matter if u see two natures and combine them with no alteration or difference its still One nature.
The council of Nicea was weird it made no sense at all.
You are right ausar the eritrean is not part of the ethiopian tewahido church but it is Coptic Egyptian with Alexandria as its head. All eritreans are ordained by an Egyptian coptic bishop.
The relationship between the Ethiopian former coptics changed once selassie got independence from Alexandria. One thing is that the Copts have been ruled by persian before the arabs came and Ethiopia has always been free and had power and was always controled spiritually by Alexandria. All Holy places of the Ethiopians was not without a native egyptian bishop until selassie.
Church of the Resurrection which is within the walls of old jerusalem was always full of ethiopians and coptics because of the power of abyssinia.
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