The native inhabitants of Mesopotamia were Caucasian, who later founded the earliest Sumerian and related Mesopotamian civilizations.
Here is some artwork -
Babylonian linguists have uncovered evidence that the Gutians had fair hair and white skin:
Tablets which describe 'blond' Gutian slaves were unearthed in the 19th century (The Early History of Babylonia, Howorth, 1901, p.32).
##Gutians were also referred to as "namrum", a term generally identified by Sumerologists with "fair-complexioned." (Hurrians and Subarians, Studies in Ancient Oriental Civilization, Gelb, 1944, p.88).
Both Gelb and Kraus (P.Kraus, MVAeG, 36.1 (1932) 59f.) transcribe a passage:
[rešamtam] na-wi-ir-tam ša in-ki [maḥ]-ra-at
(VAS XVI 65.12f.) -
"a light (-coloured) slave girl who is pleasing to your eye." (Gelb 1944, ibid.)
The learned Woolley confirms that the Gutians were fair-haired:
"In the Zagros hills and across the plains to the Tigris, there lived a ... fair-haired ... people akin to the Guti (the Goths) who ... remained in what was afterwards Assyria, the neighbour land to Akkad" (Woolley 1929, p.5).
''The Guti of western Persia are described in texts as early as 2000 BC as blond or at least as light (namrutim). The Amorites were probably of this race; the Egyptian monuments show them as blond, tall, dolichocephalic and with prominent aquiline noses; they interred their dead in dolmens of which there are over 700 in the country of Moab." (Closson 1899, p.74)
Posted by L' (Member # 18238) on :
Can you say, symbolic.
Honestly, what are the chances of a bunch of blue eyed Caucasian people in Mesopotamia based on subjective artwork?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
cassiterides - Damn boy, You are pathetic.
Give this guys package a taste, then let me know if it's Albino meat.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Sumerian paintings from Mari:
Annunaki gods
Followers behind a king
There go your nordic fantasies. Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
- Caucasians can range in skin colour, from pale white, to a ruddy pink, to an olive complexion. The Mediterraneans are mostly olive skinned.
- Skeletal evidence has classified the ancestors of the Sumerians (from the Ubaid, Uruk, and Jemdet Nasr periods) as Caucasians, mostly of the Mediterranean sub-race. See link for details - http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/04-03.htm
- There was also a Nordic ruling elite among the lower classes who were predominately Mediterranean, just like in ancient egypt.
Posted by Mugisha (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by castrated-mind: - Caucasians can range in skin colour, from pale white, to a ruddy pink, to an olive complexion. The Mediterraneans are mostly olive skinned.
Yet can you define for us what exactly makes one "caucasian"?? Science shows that there is no such thing as racial groupings do not exist.
Besides do the people in the picture really look "olive skinned" to you?? LOL
quote:- Skeletal evidence has classified the ancestors of the Sumerians (from the Ubaid, Uruk, and Jemdet Nasr periods) as Caucasians, mostly of the Mediterranean sub-race. See link for details - http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/04-03.htm
Again, outdated articles aside, you realize that people from Ethiopians to Polynesians were once classified as "Mediterranean", do you??
quote:- There was also a Nordic ruling elite among the lower classes who were predominately Mediterranean, just like in ancient egypt.
Can you provide any examples of this. I just showed you Sumerian murals depicting gods and the legs of a king, and they don't look "Nordic" at all.
quote:Originally posted by Abozo the FAKE Egyptian Russo-Persian Dickhead:
Why do you keep posting pictures of your hairy-bodied, bald-headed Gulf Arab (Persian) relatives??
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
''Science shows that there is no such thing as racial groupings do not exist.'' ===
Science (forensics, physical anthropology, genetics etc) has proven different races exist.
The only people who deny races exist are:
1. Liberals 2. Multiculturalists/multiracialists
Basically race-denialism is only believed by a few sad individuals who have a socio-political agenda. In the case of most Afrocentrics, they deny race exists because they are living in countries founded by white people, so they need a reason to justify why they are living in white lands.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ I am Afro-centric and have no problem with the concept of race but it is not discrete but rather clinal.
Basically it isn't a Black and White world but many shades of colors.
As for Mesopotamia - anything in that part of the world would clearly be a people of mixed race since the Natufians were right next door and they clearly were more Black in phenotype than NE Africans. Plenty of artifacts showing people of African heritage in Mesopotamia.
But then what is Black or White? If you ask me people like yourself are usually in denial about who is Black.
Are these people not Black? I know the answer is that they are not according to you. According to you they are White because they are Indians but it is sheer lunacy.
Until someone comes up with a racial system that actually is not bias towards their own race then I say that all systems are inherently bias and thus cannot be scientific.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ stop being childish.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ The dumb Persio-Russian child cannot help himself. Ignore him...
quote:Originally posted by castrated-mind: Science (forensics, physical anthropology, genetics etc) has proven different races exist.
The only people who deny races exist are:
1. Liberals 2. Multiculturalists/multiracialists
Basically race-denialism is only believed by a few sad individuals who have a socio-political agenda. In the case of most Afrocentrics, they deny race exists because they are living in countries founded by white people, so they need a reason to justify why they are living in white lands.
Correction. Science affirms phenotypic diversity however different phenotypes does NOT correspond to 'race'. How about you define what YOU think a "caucasian" is then.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Race only applies to a social enviroment, not a scientific one. Genetics pretty much disproves the notion of a race other than a "Human" race.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes but remember you are dealing with a dumb scientifically illiterate mind. The only "science" he's read are outdated Carleton Coon books. LOL
In the meantime let us ponder over the whiteness of the Sumerians, shall we?
LOL Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ so are people from New Guinea directly related to people from Ghana? They have the same facial features and hair types?
What they really have in common is climate. So when you say race do you mean people from the same climate? Or when you say race do you mean people genetically related? What do you mean by race?
Common ancestry or common climate adaptations?
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
please see thread where i define this for you...
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: please see thread where i define this for you...
Common ancestry or common climate adaptations?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes but remember you are dealing with a dumb scientifically illiterate mind. The only "science" he's read are outdated Carleton Coon books. LOL
In the meantime let us ponder over the whiteness of the Sumerians, shall we?
LOL
According to Djehuti both of the following are Black people
LOL [Big Grin]
Posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed (Member # 18528) on :
Thats a hell of a find, OP. I have never seen these blue eye ones --I must add to my respository of archeology debunking Afrocentrism. Thanks.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^^ Gotta admit it is some good evidence and art work. Maybe Mesopotamians had some migrations from Steppe peoples.
They called themselves Sagigga the Black headed ones I do not claim they were culturally Africans but Blacks they were according to how they self describe and how some describe them. And "Kush" begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the earth and the begining of his kingdom was in Shinnar.(Sumer?) Now if Ham/Kham was black and his sons Misr, Kush,Phut(Punt?)all located in Africa were blacks also,then Kush's son is responsible for the rise of Babylon,in the sense that Sumer was the insparation for the rise of Babylon. And before some one says they were talking about heir note they were in a land populated by black haired folks to this day.
The Neo-Assyrian Sargon text challenges his successors thus: The black-headed peoples [Sumerians] I ruled, I governed; mighty mountains with axes of bronze I destroyed. I ascended the upper mountains; I burst through the lower mountains. The country of the sea I besieged three times; Dilmun I captured. Unto the great Dur-ilu I went up, I ... I altered ... Whatsoever king shall be exalted after me, ... Let him rule, let him govern the black-headed peoples; mighty mountains with axes of bronze let him destroy; let him ascend the upper mountains, let him break through the lower mountains; the country of the sea let him besiege three times; Dilmun let him capture; To great Dur-ilu let him go up. Courtesy of Doug M ^ . http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002429
Lamentation Over The Distruction Of UR:
"Over the black headed people the winds swept.the people groan...covered Ur like a garment,envoloped it like linen...The raging storm has attacked unceasingly. The people groan....In it's boulevards where the feast were celebrated they were viciously attacked. In all it's streets where they wont to promanade,dead bodies were lying about;In it's places where the festivites of the land took place the people were ruthlessly laid low. Mothers and fathers who did not leave(their)houses were over come by fire. The young lying on their mother's bosoms like fish were carried off by the waters. the nursing mother-pried open were their breast. The Black Headed people wherever they laid their heads....were carried off. (taken from S.N Kramer,Assyriological studies,#12.)
Now some said that the Sumerians are somewhat related to the Dravidians "if" so then they would probably look somewhat like this Posted by Mugisha (Member # 6729) on :
Honestly, you guys must be smoking something else. This is NOT social-justice as per THE RUINS!
I like this one Mos Def Posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed (Member # 18528) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: They called themselves Sagigga the Black headed ones I do not claim they were culturally Africans but Blacks they were according to how they self describe and how some describe them.
Come on dude, use some critical thinking. If they were described as merely black headed ones, does that mean they were two-tone flesh beings? Get real dude... Black headed is reference to their black hair. Sumerians contrasted themselves to their gods, the fair hair, eyes and skin people.
quote: And "Kush" begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the earth and the begining of his kingdom was in Shinnar.(Sumer?) Now if Ham/Kham was black and his sons Misr, Kush,Phut(Punt?)all located in Africa were blacks also,then Kush's son is responsible for the rise of Babylon,in the sense that Sumer was the insparation for the rise of Babylon.
Another common mistake by Afrocentrists. Kush was used to denote two places in the bible, one in Africa and one in fertile crescent (Kish). The one spoken of in Genesis refers to Kish of Mesopatamia, not Africa, you numbnut!
quote: And before some one says they were talking about heir note they were in a land populated by black haired folks to this day.
Again, unless you are willing to say they were two-toned people, you are flat out wrong. They had black hair compared to the gods they worshiped.
Here is an example of the painstaking length they went to to capture the black hair of the sumerians ...
Notice how they paint the hair BLACK and neglect to paint the rest of the idol flesh tone color.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Two toned ma azz sometime folks discribed their heads as black as in the Sumerians or face and even feet
I was using the the Biblical passage it says Kush not Kish although I do not believe they were Africans and it linked them to Ham the supposed father of the Blacks but they called themselves Blk heads and so did some of their neighbors.
Notice the white figure at the bottom.
Posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed (Member # 18528) on :
^Brada, I see east indian looking people. Are east indians, Black?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I said they are likely related to Dravidians that they self described them selves as Blks ancient and modern and you find that distaste full that's your problem not theirs and the sculpture is of marble or Ivory does not help your case look at how they painted themselves .
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes it has long been presumed by scholars that the Sumerians share common ancestry with indigenous Iranians and Indians. Even their features are reminiscent of Indians. Remember this thread here?
quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: According to Djehuti both of the following are Black people
LOL [Big Grin]
Again with the lying and putting words in my mouth. What's the matter? The complexion of the Sumerians too dark for ya high-yella mullata ass? LOL Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes but remember you are dealing with a dumb scientifically illiterate mind. The only "science" he's read are outdated Carleton Coon books. LOL
In the meantime let us ponder over the whiteness of the Sumerians, shall we?
LOL
Good find, Djehuti! And here I was wondering if Mesopotamians ever painted themselves the way Egyptians did (most Mesopotamian art I have seen prior to this is not very colorful).
Say, would you call the people in these frescoes "black"? They do seem slightly darker than modern Iraqis.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes but remember you are dealing with a dumb scientifically illiterate mind. The only "science" he's read are outdated Carleton Coon books. LOL
In the meantime let us ponder over the whiteness of the Sumerians, shall we?
LOL
Good find, Djehuti! And here I was wondering if Mesopotamians ever painted themselves the way Egyptians did (most Mesopotamian art I have seen prior to this is not very colorful).
Say, would you call the people in these frescoes "black"? They do seem slightly darker than modern Iraqis.
Truthcentric you seem to not have a clue about how to determine if someone is "Black" or not.
I thought they teach that in anthropology class "how to determine Blackness 101"
There are 4 criteria to determine if someone is Black or not. Djehuti will explain or simply give you the "yes they were Black" wink. That's good enough. These Island people are very good at figuring out who's Black or not, some sort of special ability.
-also remember that "who's black" is different from "who's Black" where Black is spelled with a capital "B" Two different meanings. alTakruri has a whole thing about that.
It's more pro-Black to capitalize it. Races, get capitalized.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness Truthcentric you seem to not have a clue about how to determine if someone is "Black" or not. I thought they teach that in anthropology class "how to determine Blackness 101" Folks are Black if they say so!!! especially if they carry a hint of darkness in their skins,hence the Sumerian and the South Indians self described themselves as Blacks both ancient and modern times regardless of your protest.
Dark skin is highly esteemed among these people. ‘When a child is born they anoint him once a week with oil of sesame, and this makes him grow much darker’ (replaced since by ‘Fair & Lovely’ creams!). No wonder their gods are all black ‘and their devils white as snow.’ http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2009/01/marco-polos-india.html
And Truthcentric those pics was first bought to E/S in a similar thread by yours truly,so you are welcome.. .. Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
dblp
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Brada's got me on this one. Both of these people identify as black people. Wow I guess I lost this one
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
The Sumerians might have had Dark Skinned Asiatic types related to Dravidians but they were not "Africans" and certainly by looking at their artwork they had tribes from the Steppes with White Features such as Blue eyes and light hair.
It amazes me how people dismiss the blue eyes statues as nothing but uphold Egyptian Art work as proof of black Egypt.
Sumeria is a hop and skip away from the Steppes, plus the Aryan Indo Persians reached as far as India.
quote:Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: They called themselves Sagigga the Black headed ones I do not claim they were culturally Africans but Blacks they were according to how they self describe and how some describe them.
Come on dude, use some critical thinking. If they were described as merely black headed ones, does that mean they were two-tone flesh beings? Get real dude... Black headed is reference to their black hair. Sumerians contrasted themselves to their gods, the fair hair, eyes and skin people.
quote: And "Kush" begat Nimrod and he became a mighty one upon the earth and the begining of his kingdom was in Shinnar.(Sumer?) Now if Ham/Kham was black and his sons Misr, Kush,Phut(Punt?)all located in Africa were blacks also,then Kush's son is responsible for the rise of Babylon,in the sense that Sumer was the insparation for the rise of Babylon.
Another common mistake by Afrocentrists. Kush was used to denote two places in the bible, one in Africa and one in fertile crescent (Kish). The one spoken of in Genesis refers to Kish of Mesopatamia, not Africa, you numbnut!
quote: And before some one says they were talking about heir note they were in a land populated by black haired folks to this day.
Again, unless you are willing to say they were two-toned people, you are flat out wrong. They had black hair compared to the gods they worshiped.
Here is an example of the painstaking length they went to to capture the black hair of the sumerians ...
Notice how they paint the hair BLACK and neglect to paint the rest of the idol flesh tone color.
Posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed (Member # 18528) on :
Hats off to you, cassiterides. You are definitely show and proving! Kudos to these finds!!
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Cassi came threw on this one, good finds Sumeria def. had some White Steppe tribes in there.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Bullsh!!t!! this is from his own link
The head (left) and leg (right) of a naturally made mummy found in 2004 display "salt-cured" skin and yellowish hair after spending centuries in an Iranian salt mine. The remains belong to one of five mummies found in the mine between 1993 and 2005. Last month an international team announced the discovery of a sixth salt man from the mine, and the experts say more could eventually be unearthed. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/3020824.html In any case these are Iranians and some did came from the steeps they they were once called the; Martu We have a description of the Martu: roughly in English, as quoted “The Martu, who knows no grain, the Martu who knows no house nor town, the slob of the mountains ... the Martu who digs up truffles ... who eats raw meat, who has no house during his lifetime, who is not buried after his death ...” http://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2009/07/animal-husbandry.html Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
To the lying dummy, the boy above is technically not black since his complexion is very light. He is only labeled so for political reasons, namely that he has black ancestry. This all due to the political "one-drop rule" so whites can maintain the illusion of purity whereas blacks are the ones who are being 'mongrelized' so to speak. Of course that is the political policy followed in America. It is different elsewhere especially in Africa, where it is the opposite-- where having any visible white ancestry makes one 'white'.
Of course this has no bearing on technical terms where indigenous or relatively pure Africans with their very dark complexions would obviously be labeled as BLACK, and so would some Asians indigenous to tropical and subtropical regions such as apparently the Sumerians.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Good find, Djehuti! And here I was wondering if Mesopotamians ever painted themselves the way Egyptians did (most Mesopotamian art I have seen prior to this is not very colorful).
Say, would you call the people in these frescoes "black"? They do seem slightly darker than modern Iraqis.
Well people with complexions that dark usually are labeled as black if not brown. Their complexions and features such as high bridged hooked noses and thick eyebrows that often converge to form a unibrow actually remind me of many Indians.
As for modern Iraqis, I have seen some photos of Iraqis who are that dark.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Bullsh!!t!! this is from his own link
The head (left) and leg (right) of a naturally made mummy found in 2004 display "salt-cured" skin and yellowish hair after spending centuries in an Iranian salt mine. The remains belong to one of five mummies found in the mine between 1993 and 2005. Last month an international team announced the discovery of a sixth salt man from the mine, and the experts say more could eventually be unearthed. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/3020824.html In any case these are Iranians and some did came from the steeps they they were once called the; Martu We have a description of the Martu: roughly in English, as quoted “The Martu, who knows no grain, the Martu who knows no house nor town, the slob of the mountains ... the Martu who digs up truffles ... who eats raw meat, who has no house during his lifetime, who is not buried after his death ...” http://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2009/07/animal-husbandry.html
LMAO What do you expect from a desperate loser like Castrated-mind. Of course he would lie! It's what he's been doing all along when he makes claims of Africans never having civilization and Egyptians were never black, etc.
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