posted
Young Egyptians Rally to Protect Egypt's Ancient Heritage .Young Egyptians Rally to Protect
30 Jan 2011
The world has witnessed an unprecedented popular action in the streets of Egypt. Led by Egypt's youth, with their justified demands for more freedom, more democracy, lower prices for necessities and more employment opportunities. These youths demanded immediate and far-reaching changes. This was met by violent conflicts with the police, who were routed. The army was called in and was welcomed by the demonstrators, but initially their presence was more symbolic than active. Events deteriorated as lawless bands of thugs, and maybe agents provocateurs, appeared and looting began. The young people organized themselves into groups that directed traffic, protected neighborhoods and guarded public buildings of value such as the Egyptian Museum and the Library of Alexandria. They are collaborating with the army. This makeshift arrangement is in place until full public order returns.
The library is safe thanks to Egypt's youth, whether they be the staff of the Library or the representatives of the demonstrators, who are joining us in guarding the building from potential vandals and looters. I am there daily within the bounds of the curfew hours. However, the Library will be closed to the public for the next few days until the curfew is lifted and events unfold towards an end to the lawlessness and a move towards the resolution of the political issues that triggered the demonstrations.
Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
I know many young Egyptians are busy with their daily lives and cleaning up the country from corruption, garbage, and the choke of the old regime, but there are other venues that need attention.
We need to take back our heritage from those who seek to tarnish our image around the world and on the internet.
When tens of African Americans show up to tarnish Egypt's image at the King Tut exhibits, hundreds of vocal Egyptians need to oppose them and shout them down. Taking to the street is our only hope to keep our treasures and heritage safe from these cultural/history thieves.
Also, we need to attract more tourists to Egypt, by making sure our country is safe, clean, and organized. Egyptians are some of the most hospitable people on Earth, but we can do more.
The fight for our dignity has be carried every where from the streets to the internet.
Our dear friend, Dr. Farouk El Baz, helped the Apollo Mission get to the moon. We Young and Old Egyptians can help save out ancestors' legacy form destruction, theft, and false claims of ownership.
Peace will come, when all Egyptians do their part and help us succeed.
-------------------- Chairman Mau Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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Yeah but African American's claims to Egypt are as Null as the descendants of Turks, Arab, Syrians, Greeks, Romans, Iranians etc. that populate the Delta city of Alexandria and Lower Egyptian Cairo.
The pristine descendants are those in Upper Egypt and Northern Sudan. Egyptians should fight that images like this..
^^^^ Mulatto king Tut
for the pristine descendants of the A. Egyptians..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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We know you can't read Arabic and that is why Egyptians forgive you and people like you for being easily mislead by SPAM.
We're close to 90 million strong and all Egyptians are Egyptians. Others who want to pretend to be Egyptians need to wakeup and find out who their real ancestors are and learn about their own true history.
-------------------- Chairman Mau Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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Mau Im not denying you and your people are not related to A. Egyptians, it is just you Delta and Cairan Egyptians are not a true representative of the A. Egyptians.
Sure some of your features. might have been present in A. Egypt, but from the Art we can tell it was in the minority.
Majority of the A. Egyptian population looked like Luxor and Aswani Egyptians and Northern Sudanese.
When I see you Egyptians rally and fight that the Upper Egyptians like those in Luxor and Aswan and the Northern Sudanese be represented in depictions of A. Egypt then I will take you claim that "All Egyptians are Egyptians" serious. Most people dismiss the Darker Egyptians off as Sudanese or as descendants of Slaves but never want to talk about the Saqalibba Slaves in Egypt or the Turks, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Persians, Syrians etc. that invaded and set up in Egypt..
Second, Egyptian Culture was African. Her Gods and Religion was no different than many other African Mythology. Vodoo type beliefs, god Kings, Ancestor Worship, The Balance of Masculine and Femenin(Maat), Animal headed and Animal Gods, Patrilinial Society.
Mau would you be comfortable in A. Egypt?? Did you not under the Moniker Dirk8 make fun of Mud Architecture, Did you know A. Egyptians slept in Mud Houses and still do in Rural Egypt??
quote:Originally posted by Mau: ^
We know you can't read Arabic and that is why Egyptians forgive you and people like you for being easily mislead by SPAM.
We're close to 90 million strong and all Egyptians are Egyptians. Others who want to pretend to be Egyptians need to wakeup and find out who their real ancestors are and learn about their own true history.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I do not think Jari was trying to downplay modern Egyptians connection to their ancestors. Rather, the upper Egyptians and northern Sudanese are the best representatives of the ancient Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by Mau: ^
We know you can't read Arabic and that is why Egyptians forgive you and people like you for being easily mislead by SPAM.
We're close to 90 million strong and all Egyptians are Egyptians. Others who want to pretend to be Egyptians need to wakeup and find out who their real ancestors are and learn about their own true history.
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: I do not think Jari was trying to downplay modern Egyptians connection to their ancestors. Rather, the upper Egyptians and northern Sudanese are the best representatives of the ancient Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by Mau: ^
We know you can't read Arabic and that is why Egyptians forgive you and people like you for being easily mislead by SPAM.
We're close to 90 million strong and all Egyptians are Egyptians. Others who want to pretend to be Egyptians need to wakeup and find out who their real ancestors are and learn about their own true history.
Calabooz quote: modern Egyptians connection to their ancestors.
Calabooz I do not see this connection that you speak of. Could you please DEMONSTRATE it to me?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
What do you mean, isn't it obvious? Modern Egyptians are descended from ancient Egyptians. Which IS a connection. Or do you disagree?
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: I do not think Jari was trying to downplay modern Egyptians connection to their ancestors. Rather, the upper Egyptians and northern Sudanese are the best representatives of the ancient Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by Mau: ^
We know you can't read Arabic and that is why Egyptians forgive you and people like you for being easily mislead by SPAM.
We're close to 90 million strong and all Egyptians are Egyptians. Others who want to pretend to be Egyptians need to wakeup and find out who their real ancestors are and learn about their own true history.
Calabooz quote: modern Egyptians connection to their ancestors.
Calabooz I do not see this connection that you speak of. Could you please DEMONSTRATE it to me?
posted
Calabooz Quote: What do you mean, isn't it obvious? Modern Egyptians are descended from ancient Egyptians. Which IS a connection. Or do you disagree?
Calabooz - You keep saying these things, but do not offer any proof. You seem to think that just because those people are IN Egypt, that means that they are descended from Ancient Egyptians. But that is NOT so!
Example:
American Indian
Modern American
Where is the connection, except that one destroyed the other?
posted
Calabooz, I don't know about a genetic connection but I can definitely show strong cultural ties amongst the lower socio-economic groups that live in the margins of Egyptian society. Go to any slum or rural area of Cairo you will see everyday folklore which shows pharaonic ties. Unfortunately, in the future it will be harder to prove because of the extreme zeal of Islamic clerics.
Jari, the folklore of poor Egyptians are also similar to modern Africans. Not just the zar ceremonies but the reverence of the dead and also the music and moulid celebrations. I plan to make a video about this in the future. Outside of modern Egypt and anthropology very few people know of these traditions. The traditions are dying fast because most people see it as pagan idolatry.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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For people who contend on using America as example ones has to ration that Egypt never underwent wide-scale massacres or disease like the Americas did. You could argue as Dr. Winters does that ancient Egyptians dispersed into the interior of Africa or went into the Sudan during the later dynasties like the Greco-Roman did.
Plus the native Americans still exist in large populations in Canada and the American southwest.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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You see Mike111, the difference between Egypt and America is that America experience population replacement whereas Egypt did not. So I can't see how you can compare the two.
Modern Egyptians are descended from ancient Egyptians for the most part. However I wouldn't argue that they look similar as they have experienced significant gene flow from Mediterranean populations.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz Quote: What do you mean, isn't it obvious? Modern Egyptians are descended from ancient Egyptians. Which IS a connection. Or do you disagree?
Calabooz - You keep saying these things, but do not offer any proof. You seem to think that just because those people are IN Egypt, that means that they are descended from Ancient Egyptians. But that is NOT so!
Example:
American Indian
Modern American
Where is the connection, except that one destroyed the other?
posted
If there was no genetic connection then that would mean the ancient population was replaced. Modern Egyptians have experienced significant gene flow from the Near East, but this doesn't mean they aren't descended from ancient Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Calabooz, I don't know about a genetic connection but I can definitely show strong cultural ties amongst the lower socio-economic groups that live in the margins of Egyptian society. Go to any slum or rural area of Cairo you will see everyday folklore which shows pharaonic ties. Unfortunately, in the future it will be harder to prove because of the extreme zeal of Islamic clerics.
Jari, the folklore of poor Egyptians are also similar to modern Africans. Not just the zar ceremonies but the reverence of the dead and also the music and moulid celebrations. I plan to make a video about this in the future. Outside of modern Egypt and anthropology very few people know of these traditions. The traditions are dying fast because most people see it as pagan idolatry.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: For people who contend on using America as example ones has to ration that Egypt never underwent wide-scale massacres or disease like the Americas did. You could argue as Dr. Winters does that ancient Egyptians dispersed into the interior of Africa or went into the Sudan during the later dynasties like the Greco-Roman did.
Plus the native Americans still exist in large populations in Canada and the American southwest.
Kid From The Slums of Cairo!
Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
I was not arguing there was no genetic connection. I am an advocate for most modern Egyptians share a genetic connection but donot have the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians. I really wish that more published research was done on this subject. Other regions like Lebanon have proven through genetics there may be continuity between modern Muslim and Christian Lebanese. No such studies have been done on Egyptians besides a cryptic SCA genetic study on the remains near the Giza pyramid.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I was not arguing there was no genetic connection. I am an advocate for most modern Egyptians share a genetic connection but donot have the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians. I really wish that more published research was done on this subject. Other regions like Lebanon have proven through genetics there may be continuity between modern Muslim and Christian Lebanese. No such studies have been done on Egyptians besides a cryptic SCA genetic study on the remains near the Giza pyramid.
My argument on this thread is that there is a connection, but due to significant admixture they probably aren't the best representative of their ancestors. As opposed to Mike111 who implied Egypt is similar to America.
Did you see the dendrograms I scanned onto FaceBook from Berry Kemp's book: "Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a civilization"? He mentions that the Late Dynasty Giza cemetary was immigrant or they showed a growing resemblence to European populations due to admixture. I would think the latter scenario is more likely.
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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Mike111- Who are you to tell people who they are? All modern Egyptians can only be seen as descended from ancient Egyptians; unless you have evidence of population replacement?
Excluded are recent immigrants- other than that, modern Egyptians do have an ancestral connection to ancient Egypt.
-------------------- L Writes: Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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Calabooz - I see that you know NOTHING of Egyptian history. Hint: it is REPLETE with population replacement.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - I see that you know NOTHING of Egyptian history. Hint: it is REPLETE with population replacement.
LOL!. Please provide evidence that the ancient population was replaced. As opposed to the fact that Egypt did experience gene flow but NOT replaced. Due to this gene flow, modern Egyptians can not be seen as representative of the ancestral population as Sundijata pointed out with his citation of Keita, but this does not mean they aren't descended from ancient EgyptiansPosts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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On inferring ancient genetic relations using data from modern Egyptians:
quote:The information from the living Egyptian population may not be as useful because historical records indicate substantial immigration into Egypt over the last several millennia, and it seems to have been far greater from the Near East and Europe than from areas far south of Egypt. "Substantial immigration" can actually mean a relatively small number of people in terms of population genetics theory. It has been determined that an average migration rate of one percent per generation into a region could result in a great change of the original gene frequencies in only several thousand years. (This assumes that all migrants marry natives and that all native-migrant offspring remain in the region.) It is obvious then that an ethnic group or nationality can change in average gene frequencies or physiognomy by intermarriage, unless social rules exclude the products of "mixed" unions from membership in the receiving group. More abstractly this means that geographically defined populations can undergo significant genetic change with a small percentage of steady assimilation of "foreign" genes. This is true even if natural selection does not favor the genes (and does not eliminate them).
---Keita, S.O.Y. (1996)
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mau, I wonder what your purpose of posting a Cariene slum children look like. My family are saidi from Bulaq.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - I see that you know NOTHING of Egyptian history. Hint: it is REPLETE with population replacement.
LOL!. Please provide evidence that the ancient population was replaced. As opposed to the fact that Egypt did experience gene flow but NOT replaced. Due to this gene flow, modern Egyptians can not be seen as representative of the ancestral population as Sundijata pointed out with his citation of Keita, but this does not mean they aren't descended from ancient Egyptians
Greeks and Romans Alexandria, population 4.1 million, was founded around c. 331 BC by Alexander the Great. It remained Egypt's capital for nearly a thousand years, until the Muslim conquest of Egypt in AD 641, when a new capital was founded at Fustat (Fustat was later absorbed into Cairo).
Arabs then Turks
Cairo, population 7 million, was founded by the Fatimid dynasty in the 10th Century. It was also the Mamluk capitol. The Mamluks and Ottomans used both.
Interview with Mehmet Ali in his Palace at Alexandria.
Calabooz - where do you find the Egyptians?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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who is more genetically similar to an ancient Egyptian a Turk or somebody from Ghana?
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - I see that you know NOTHING of Egyptian history. Hint: it is REPLETE with population replacement.
LOL!. Please provide evidence that the ancient population was replaced. As opposed to the fact that Egypt did experience gene flow but NOT replaced. Due to this gene flow, modern Egyptians can not be seen as representative of the ancestral population as Sundijata pointed out with his citation of Keita, but this does not mean they aren't descended from ancient Egyptians
Exactly. Modern Egypt is little different in this respect from modern Mexico, where ~60% of the people are a mix of indigenous Native Americans and European settlers. Yet for some reason no one goes around claiming that the pre-Columbian Aztecs and Mayans were mestizos...
Posts: 7080 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Truthcentric - Mexico is a good example, in that the modern Europeans and mulattoes do the same thing to the native people. They leave them in poverty and ignorance, kill them, and claim that Mexico's heritage is THEIR heritage.
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Mike, what about the countryside from the Greco-Roman to Islamic eras? Most modern Cairene Egyptians come from peasant stock from the Delta. Population explosion as seen in modern Egypt did not taken place until after Napoleon invaded and established colonial rule in Egypt.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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ausar - Many posters alluded to the countryside as being the habitat of AE descendants. I did not argue with that.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - I see that you know NOTHING of Egyptian history. Hint: it is REPLETE with population replacement.
LOL!. Please provide evidence that the ancient population was replaced. As opposed to the fact that Egypt did experience gene flow but NOT replaced. Due to this gene flow, modern Egyptians can not be seen as representative of the ancestral population as Sundijata pointed out with his citation of Keita, but this does not mean they aren't descended from ancient Egyptians
Greeks and Romans Alexandria, population 4.1 million, was founded around c. 331 BC by Alexander the Great. It remained Egypt's capital for nearly a thousand years, until the Muslim conquest of Egypt in AD 641, when a new capital was founded at Fustat (Fustat was later absorbed into Cairo).
Arabs then Turks
Cairo, population 7 million, was founded by the Fatimid dynasty in the 10th Century. It was also the Mamluk capitol. The Mamluks and Ottomans used both.
Interview with Mehmet Ali in his Palace at Alexandria.
Calabooz - where do you find the Egyptians?
And how does this in any way suggest that the indigenous Egyptian population was replaced? Read:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - To your point:
If they said that they were of Turk and European "DESCENT" with a tinge of Egyptian - there would be no argument.
But that is NOT what they claim - is it.
"They" claim that they are descended from ancient Egyptians which is TRUE. They are predominately African with significant non-African ancestry
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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Calabooz - In time, you will learn that it is unwise to use "loose talk" when I am on the board.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Calabooz - In time, you will learn that it is unwise to use "loose talk" when I am on the board.
LOL, Who the hell takes you and you picture spams serious..LOL.
Coming from the same dude who claims Allen's Rule and Limb Adaptions is "White Man's B.S" by posting Images of tall White people and Midget blacks..lol as if that proves anything.
What a burden you are, even Lioness has been known to run circles around your clown ass and expose your blatant contradictions..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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^^^^ Mau what is the purpose of posting Egyptians from the Cairan Slums???
Majority of Egyptians are poverty stricken including the Cairian and Alexandrian Egyptians.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Notice The Man Holding The Kid With The Reddish Color, Not much different from Ancient Egyptians.
Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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Jari - As usual, you post the drivel of a idiot, and seriously believe that it carries weight. Do yourself a favor, take a poll of who gives two sh1ts about what you think, then act accordingly.
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Mau what is the purpose of posting Egyptians from the Cairan Slums???
Majority of Egyptians are poverty stricken including the Cairian and Alexandrian Egyptians.
These Slums dwellers are originally from Upper Egyptian Villages and came to Cairo to seek a better life. These are the so called, "True Native Egyptians", if you will.
Most of the people in Cairo are originally from the villages of Egypt (Lower & Upper) and/or descendant of earlier migrants to Cairo.
Posts: 422 | From: Leave No Stone Unturned! | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Mau - Yes, his skin color suggests that he has significant African admixture. But that is one person out of eight. What about the other 87.5%?
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