Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Ask agent "Mike111". He hates then just as much as you.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
The real question is were you born stupid or did your meth whore mother drop you on your head?
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: . When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts.
Oh, really?
quote: "When they [the first European navigators of the end of the Middle Ages] arrived in the Gulf of Guinea and landed at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find the streets well cared for, bordered for several leagues in length by two rows of trees; for many days they passed through a country of magnificent fields, a country inhabited by men clad in brilliant costumes, the stuff of which they had woven themselves! More to the South in the Kingdom of Congo, a swarming crowd dressed in silk and velvet; great states well ordered, and even to the smallest details, powerful sovereigns, rich industries, -- civilized to the marrow of their bones. And the condition of the countries on the eastern coasts -- Mozambique, for example -- was quite the same.
"What was revealed by the navigators of the fifteenth to the seventeenth centuries furnishes an absolute proof that Negro Africa, which extended south of the desert zone of the Sahara, was in full efflorescence which the European conquistadors annihilated as far as they progressed. For the new country of America needed slaves, and Africa had them to offer, hundreds, thousands, whole cargoes of slaves. However, the slave trade was never an affair which meant a perfectly easy conscience, and it exacted a justification; hence one made of the Negro a half-animal, an article of merchandise. And in the same way the notion of fetish (Portuguese feticeiro) was invented as a symbol of African religion. As for me, I have seen in no part of Africa the Negroes worshipping a fetish. The idea of the 'barbarous Negro' is a European invention which has consequently prevailed in Europe until the beginning of this century.
"What these old captains recounted, these chiefs of expeditions -- Delbes, Marchais, Pigafetta, and all the others, what they recounted is true. It can be verified. In the old Royal Kunstkammer of Dresden, in the Weydemann colection of Ulm, in many another 'cabinet of curiosities' of Europe, we still find West African collections dating from this epoch. Marvellous plush velvets of an extreme softness, made of the tenderest leaves of a certain kind of banana plant; stuffs soft and supple, brilliant and delicate, like silks, woven with the fiber of a raffia, well prepared; powerful javelins with points encrusted with copper in the most elegant fashion; bows so graceful in form and so beautifully ornamented that they would do honor to any museum of arms whatsoever; calabashes decorated with the greatest taste; sculpture in ivory and wood of which the work shows a very great deal of application and style.
"And all that came from cuntries of the African periphery, delivered over after that to slave merchants, . . .
"But when the pioneers of the last century pierced this zone of 'European civilization' and the wall of protection which had, for the time being raised behind it -- the wall of protection of the Negro still 'intact' -- they found everywhere the same marvels which the captains had found on the coast.
to be continued . . .
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
continuing . . .
quote: "In 1906 when I penetrated into the territory of Kassai-Sankuru, I found still, villages of which the principle streets were bordered on each side, for leagues, with rows of palm trees, and of which the houses, decorated each one in charming fashion, were works of art as well.
"No man who did not carry sumptuous arms of iron or copper, with inlaid blades and handles covered with serpent skin. Everywhere velvets and silken stuffs. Each cup, each pipe, each spoon was an object of art perfectly worthy to be compared to the creations of the Roman European style. But all this was only the particularly tender and iridescent bloom which adorns a ripe and marvellous fruit; the gestures, the manners, the moral code of the entire people, from the little child to the old man, although they remained within absolutely natural limits, were imprinted with dignity and grace, in the families of the princes and the rich as in the vassals and slaves. I know of no northern people who can be compared with these primitives for unity of civilization. And the peaceful beauty was carried away by the floods.
"But many men had this experience: the explorers who left the savage and warrior plateau of the East and South and the North to descend into the plains of the Congo, of Lake Victoria, of the Ubangi: men such as Speke and Grant, Livingstone, Cameron, Stanley, Schweinfurth, Junker, de Brazza -- all of them -- made the same statements: they came from countries dominated by the rigid laws of the African Ares, and from then on they penetrated into the countries where peace reigned, and joy in adornment and in beauty; countries of old civilizations, of ancient styles, of harmonious styles.
to be concluded ...
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
concluding.
quote:"Thus in the Sudan old real African warm-blooded culture existed and could be found in Equatorial Africa, where neither Ethiopian thought, Hamitic blood, or European civilization had drawn the pattern. Everywhere when we examine this ancient culture it bears the same impression. In the great museums -- Trocadero, British Museum, in Belgium, Italy, Holland, and Germany -- everywhere we see the same spirit, the same character, the same nature. All of these separate pieces unite themselves to the same expression and build a picture equally impressive as that of a collection of the art of Asia. The striking beauty of the cloth, the fantastic beauty of the drawing and the sculpture, the glory of the ivory weapons, the collection of fairy tales equal to the Thousand and One nights, the Chinese novels, and the Indian philosophy.
"In comparison with such spiritual accomplishments the impression of the African spirit is easily seen. It is stronger in its folds, simpler in its richness. Every weapon is simple and practical, not only in form but fantasy. Every line of carving is simple and strong. There is nothing that makes a clearer impression of strength, and all that streams out of the fire and the hut, the sweat and the grease- treated hides and the animal dung. Everything is practical, strong, workmanly. This is the character of the African style. When one approaches it with full understanding, one immediately realizes that this impression rules all Africa. It expresses itself in the activity of all Negro people even in their sculpture. It speaks out of their dances and their masks; out of the understanding of their religious life, just as out of the reality of their living, their state building, and their conception of fate. It lives in their fables, their fairy stories, their wise sayings and their myths.
"And once we are forced to this conclusion, then the Egyptian comes into the comparison. For this discovered culture form of Negro Africa has the same peculiarity."
Leo Frobenius Histoire de la Civilisation Africaine translated by Back and Ermoat Paris: Gallimard, 1936 6th edition page 56
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Although I'm no Afrocentric I thought I'd reply before some knuckleheaded response ruined things. Nor is the above quoted Froebenius without Euro prejudices but at least he was honest enough to speak observed truth.
We of Africa have that of or own and contributed to that of others. In addition there are black people in SW, SC, and SE Asia who are no relation whatsoever to continental Africans yet descendents of SSAs are found among southwest and southcentral Asia who of course are not responsible for the cultures and civilizations there founded by indigenous Asians.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^ Exactly and considering Mud and Adobe Structures was not widely used in Africa. Why is Mud, which was used as far as Mesopotamia, suddenly the catch phrase of White Racists?? LMAO, if anything these clowns should say Africans built out of "WOOD", but of course they can't say that because Wood does not carry the baggage Mud is supposed to..
"We ... traveled by sea to the city of Kulwa [Kilwa in East Africa]...Most of its people are Zunuj, extremely black...The city of Kulwa is amongst the most beautiful of cities and most elegantly built... Their uppermost virtue is religion and righteousness and they are Shafi'i in rite."
Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331
The royal court is magnificent and very well organized. When the king goes from one city to another with the people of his court, he rides a camel and the horses are led by hand by servants. If fighting becomes necessary, the servants mount the camels and all the soldiers mount on horseback. When someone wishes to speak to the king, he must kneel before him and bow down; but this is only required of those who have never before spoken to the king, or of ambassadors. -Leo Africanus
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Don't forget about the Yoruba and Benin city states had walled cities. The kingdom of Kongo also had urban centers and a central law system and government.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
They like to use the word mud because the sort they usually address themselves to are too stupid to know the word adobe and are unfamiliar with mud architecture attaining to 10 stories in height, as in Yemen, and are also too stupid to know a hut is a small dinky construct.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
AlTakruri I meant to ask you or possibly Alwaadberry on the thread about Black Asians..etc. when we got into "Bilad Es Sudan" and Al-Jahiz's list of Blacks in Indo-China...
its by Al-Jahiz and is the source of the imfamous Zanj quote...
We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions."
If you put that in google you get pages on pages of white racists who quote it as proof that even Arabs hated blacks(When most of their quotes come from Iranian(..Zanj Revolt) Writers and not Arabs).
But from what I read about the Book of Misrs is that its a Satire piece of work meant to entertain and on top of that its fictional, so I guess my question is have you read that infamous quote in full context?? Considering the Book of Misr's is fiction is that quote even valid??
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Don't forget about the Yoruba and Benin city states had walled cities. The kingdom of Kongo also had urban centers and a central law system and government.
Exactly as Al-Takruri said it stems from poor education and Ignorance on part of the same people who try to prop themselves up as having high I.Q and advanced civilization..
Its time we stop treating these people as if they are on our level. If they are too lazy to research what their own people said of the Kingdoms they visited like Congo etc, or even of the ever famous and Popular, easy to access Ibn Bhattuta and his description of the African Cities he visited, then they don't need to even debate history.
Im trying to find a quote or description of the Kongo Kingdom and how Europeans were in Awe at its sophisticated system of Governance, I know it exists because I read it on this very site.
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
And there's Kumasi, Asante capitol ....
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Al-Takruri The real question is were you born stupid or did your meth whore mother drop you on your head? quote:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Im trying to find a quote or description of the Kongo Kingdom and how Europeans were in Awe at its sophisticated system of Governance, I know it exists because I read it on this very site.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: [QB] So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
wrong question,the question is why would you bring this up? and i turn back to you,why you did not do any research before you ask a dumb question.
what books have you read? and what well done research websites that post correct info have you gone too.
Before anybody answer you questions you should do the research first.
If you did, you would not ask a dumb question in the first place since their in alot of good info,books and websites about great african civilizations in so-called sub-Sahara africa.
another point thier alot of books on modern africa too,why don't you take a trip too see africa and your questions would be answered,and good book with alot of pictures would help too.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
Let me help you a little bit anyway,since i am in a helping mood at for the time being.After this you should do more of the DETAILED research yourself.
The history of African cities south of the Sahara: from the ...
Catherine Coquery-Vidrovitch - 2005 - 421 pages - RW Hull, African Cities and Towns before the European Conquest. 3. DM Anderson and R. Rathbone, cAs., Africa's Urban Past (Portsmouth, NH: Heinemann, 2000). A similar publication is forthcoming: Toyin Falola and Steven J. Salm, eds., ...
AND
Africa's urban past
David Anderson, Richard Rathbone - 2000 - 310 pages -
I got this from stromfront,most likely your favorite website.
Default Re: BLACK POWER YOU DAMN WHITE PEOPLE Quote: Originally Posted by MachineGewehr View Post If Nigerians are so intelligent why cant they start to forge their own civilization starting from scratch since there is no slavery and the U.S has a groid president. probably they can create a society more advanced than the west.
Please, explain to me how Nigerians are unable to forge their own civilization. Africa is doing much better than the average white nationalist knowns and I enjoy this ignorance.
The experts say the average standard of living in Botswana is equal to Turkey.
African cities are growing faster than any European cities.
From a high of 24 coups in the 1960s, there were 14 in the 1990s and just five in 2000-08.
In 2006, Sub-Saharan Africa registered its third straight year of good GDP growth - about 6% More than 35% of Africans live in sustained-growth economies that have grown at more than 4% a year for ten years. (World Bank's Africa Development Indicators (ADI) 2007)
South Africa's and Nigeria's GDP comprise 54% of total SSA's GDP. (ADI 2007)
A recent census report reveals that black Africans are now the most highly educated members of British society. According to the United States 2000 Census, African-born blacks are considerably better educated than other black immigrants. African immigrants to the United States are more highly educated than white and Asian Americans and are more likely than any other immigrant group to have a college education. Almost 50% of all African immigrants in the United States hold a college diploma.
According to the Economist Intelligence Unit, four African democracies rank in the top 40 democracies of the world; Mauritius (25), South Africa (29), Botswana (36) and Cape Verde (39)
In the last decade Rwanda and Uganda have made the greatest gains in live expectancy: 12 and 7 years respectively. (ADI 2007) In 2004 the poverty headcount ratio at $1 a day was 41% of population from 47% in 1990. (ADI 2007) Growth of living standards in the last five years is the highest in Africa's history.
BENIN: The Forgotten Empire This thread is a dedication to the legendary Benin Empire in which once controlled and vast Empire in which stretch from present day Cameroon to present day Togo. Please post any information and pictures about this Legendary civilization in this thread. I just came across an article in which stated that a Hollywood movie is in the works focusing on this once magnificent Empire, and it's clash with the Europeans whom were awed by its presence.
How Africa is Becoming the New Asia February 19, 2010
China and India get all the headlines for their economic prowess, but there's another global growth story that is easily overlooked: Africa. In 2007 and 2008, southern Africa, the Great Lakes region of Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda, and even the drought-stricken Horn of Africa had GDP growth rates on par with Asia's two powerhouses. Last year, in the depths of global recession, the continent clocked almost 2 percent growth, roughly equal to the rates in the Middle East, and outperforming everywhere else but India and China. This year and in 2011, Africa will grow by 4.8 percent—the highest rate of growth outside Asia, and higher than even the oft-buzzed-about economies of Brazil, Russia, Mexico, and Eastern Europe, according to newly revised IMF estimates. In fact, on a per capita basis, Africans are already richer than Indians, and a dozen African states have higher gross national income per capita than China.
More surprising is that much of this growth is driven not by the sale of raw materials, like oil or diamonds, but by a burgeoning domestic market, the largest outside India and China. In the last four years, the surge in private consumption of goods and services has accounted for two thirds of Africa's GDP growth. The rapidly emerging African middle class could number as many as 300 million, out of a total population of 1 billion, according to development expert Vijay Majahan, author of the 2009 book Africa Rising. While few of them have the kind of disposable income found in Asia and the West, these accountants, teachers, maids, taxi drivers, even roadside street vendors, are driving up demand for goods and services like cell phones, bank accounts, upmarket foodstuffs, and real estate. In fact, in Africa's 10 largest economies, the service sector makes up 40 percent of GDP, not too far from India's 53 percent. "The new Africa story is consumption," says Graham Thomas, head of principal investment at Standard Bank Group, which operates in 17 African countries.
Much of the boom in this new consumer class can be attributed to outside forces: evolving trade patterns, particularly from increased demand coming out of China, and technological innovation abroad that spurs local productivity and growth like the multibillion-dollar fiber-optic lines that are being laid out between Africa and the developed world. Other changes are domestic and deliberate. Despite Africa's well-founded reputation for corruption and poor governance, a substantial chunk of the continent has quietly experienced this economic renaissance by dint of its virtually unprecedented political stability. Spurred by eager investors, governments have steadily deregulated industries and developed infrastructure. As a result, countries such as Kenya and Botswana now boast privately owned world-class hospitals, charter schools, and toll roads that are actually safe to drive on. A study by a World Bank program, the Africa Infrastructure Country Diagnostic, found that improvements in Africa's telecom infrastructure have contributed as much as 1 percent to per capita GDP growth, a bigger role than changes in monetary or fiscal policies. Shares of stocks in recently privatized local airlines, freight companies, and telecoms have skyrocketed.
Entrepreneurship has increased at the same time, powered in part by the influx of returning skilled workers. Just as waves of expats returned to China and India in the 1990s to start businesses that in turn attracted more outside talent and capital, there are now signs that an entrepreneurial African diaspora will help transform the continent. While brain drain is still a chronic problem in countries such as Burundi and Malawi—some of the poorest in the world on a per capita basis—Africa's most robust economies, such as those in Ghana, Botswana, and South Africa, are beginning to see an unprecedented brain gain. According to some reports, roughly 10,000 skilled professionals have returned to Nigeria in the last year, and the number of educated Angolans seeking jobs back home has spiked 10-fold, to 1,000, in the last five years. Bart Nnaji gave up a tenured professorship at the University of Pittsburgh to move back to Nigeria in 2005 and run Geometric Power, the first private power company in sub-Saharan Africa. Its $400 million, 188-megawatt power plant will come online this fall as the sole provider of electricity for Aba, a city of 2 million in southeast Nigeria. Afam Onyema, a 30-year-old graduate of Harvard and Stanford Law, turned down six-figure offers in corporate law to build and run a $50 million state-of-the-art private hospital with a charitable component for the poor in southeast Nigeria.
Many experts believe Africa, with its expansive base of newly minted consumers, may very well be on the verge of becoming the next India, thanks to frenetic urbanization and the sort of big push in services and infrastructure that transformed the Asian subcontinent 15 years ago. Just as India once harnessed its booming population of cheap labor, Africa stands to gain by the rapid growth of its big cities. Already the continent boasts the world's highest rate of urbanization, which jump-starts growth through industrialization and economies of scale. Today only a third of Africa's population lives in cities, but that segment accounts for 80 percent of total GDP, according to the U.N. Centre for Human Settlements. In the next 30 years, half the continent's population will be living in cities.
Nowhere is this relationship between the consumer class and urbanization more apparent than in Lagos, Nigeria, a megalopolis of 18 million that has the anything-goes pace of a Chongqing or Mumbai. On Victoria Island, the city's commercial center, real estate is as expensive as in Manhattan. Everywhere you look, there is construction: luxury condos, office buildings, roads, even a brand-new city nearby being dredged from the sea that will hold half a million people. "Everything is in short supply, so everything's a high-growth area," explains Adedotun Sulaiman, a venture capitalist and chairman of Accenture in Nigeria. "In terms of opportunities, it's just mind-blowing." Aliko Dangote, Africa's richest black entrepreneur, has also cashed in on this consumer culture, with a net worth of $2.5 billion, according to Forbes. His empire, which began in 1978 as a trading business that imported, among other things, baby food, cement, and frozen fish, is focused on Nigeria's burgeoning domestic growth, producing cement for shopping and office complexes; renting luxury condos; making noodles, flour, and sugar; and now expanding into services such as 3G mobile networks and transportation. "There's nowhere you can make money like in Nigeria," says the 53-year-old Dangote. "It's the world's best-kept secret."
Not anymore. A recent study by Oxford economist Paul Collier of all 954 publicly traded African companies operating between 2000 and 2007 found that their annual return on capital was on average 65 percent higher than those of similar firms in China, India, Vietnam, or Indonesia because labor costs are skyrocketing in Asia. Their median profit margin, 11 percent, was also higher than in Asia or South America. African mobile operators, for instance, showed the highest profit margins in the industry worldwide. As a result, foreign multinationals like Unilever, Nestlé, and Swissport International report some of their highest growth in Africa. So even as foreign direct investment fell by 20 percent worldwide in 2008, capital in-flows to Africa actually jumped 16 percent, to $61.9 billion, its highest level ever, according to a report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Even Chinese companies are thinking of outsourcing basic manufacturing to Africa. The World Bank is now helping China set up an industrial zone in Ethiopia, the first of perhaps several offshore centers akin to the sprawling free-trade zones that opened up China's economy in the 1980s.
Still, Africa remains at the very frontier of emerging markets. Despite its gains, the difficulty and cost of running a business there are the highest in the world, according to data from the International Monetary Fund. Couple that with pervasive corruption—Transparency International calls the problem "rampant" in 36 of 53 African states—and it's no wonder Africa is often regarded as a toxic place to operate. But World Bank president Robert Zoellick says that in the aftermath of the economic crisis, long-term investors have recognized that "developed markets have big risks too." Like China and India, Africa is exploiting that fact, and perhaps more than any other region it is illustrative of a new world order in which the poorest nations will still find ways to steam ahead.
Has Africa's manufacturing revolution started? While most developing regions were laying the foundations of a manufacturing-driven economy, Africa continued to rely on the export of low-value raw materials. But it now seems that the trend is changing and local value addition is increasing - from cutting and polishing diamonds to exporting finished manufactured products. Sarah Rundell reports.
Eurostar, an Indian-owned diamond trading and cutting company, is one of the latest businesses to open a factory in Botswana; it cuts and polishes diamonds in the capital Gabarone. Botswana accounts for an estimated 27% of global diamond production, but until recently the delicate art of polishing and cutting happened overseas. Although Africa is home to five of the top seven global diamond producers, the bulk of exports remain rough or uncut stones.
But this is changing as a new trend begins to take root. Over the span of a few years, 16 factories, like Eurostar, have set up in Botswana while six have sprung up in Namibia. It is the beginning of a new industry, adding value to gems back home. Botswana now competes with manufacturing centres such as India, which employs one million people in the polishing business, and can now add around 40% to the value of its sparkling export. "They are taking the rough diamond and turning it into a finished product. This way Botswana is able to compete with other polishing centres and it has created a whole new industry," says Mervin Lifshitz at the Botswana Diamond Manufacturers Association.
Botswana's burgeoning diamond-polishing industry is indicative of a wider effort across the continent to add value back home and boost Africa's own manufacturing sector. Economists have said for years that without a strong manufacturing industry - South Africa has the most vibrant - countries will struggle to reduce the cost of manufactured imports, create jobs and accelerate industrialisation.
How healthy is Africa's manufacturing sector?
Companies say power supply is the biggest challenge. The World Bank's December 2009 Kenya Economic Update estimates domestic manufacturing loses almost 10% in potential sales due to power outages and transport bottlenecks. It is making Kenyan goods uncompetitive, warns Betty Maina at the Kenya Association of Manufacturers (KAM). "With energy cost constituting over 40% of total manufacturing costs, Kenya's products are increasingly finding it difficult to compete with those from other countries, especially Asia," she says.
It is a similar story in Nigeria, where companies rely on their own generators. This helps ensure power supply but the cost is unbearable for many, causing factories to close or temporarily shut and lay off staff, says Alhaji Bashir Borodo, the president of Nigeria's Manufacturers Association.
"Manufacturing is dying in Nigeria because of the power supply," bemoans Lagosian entrepreneur Seyi Boroffice. "The government still believes it can fix the problem but it has to be driven by the private sector."
It is a call being answered. Nigerian energy firm Oando has invested Ni6bn ($i04.6m) through its subsidiary Gaslink in iookm of distribution pipeline to service over 90 customers in Lagos's industrial centres. It is part of an overall massive investment to provide Nigeria's industrial and commercial centres with a reliable and cheap fuel option, the company says.
In South Africa, where state-owned power utility Eskom produces 90% of its electricity supply from coal-fired power stations and struggles to meet demand, companies say they are exploring other power sources. A near-collapse of the grid in January 2009 shut the country's gold and platinum mines for five days and sent metals prices soaring.
The recession has not helped manufacturers. Inflation and consumer belt-tightening has led to increased competition from cheaper imports. Mohit Manglani, president of the Carpet Manufacturers Association of Nigeria urges the importance of buying local: "It is the only way to encourage manufacturers to continue to produce high quality and affordable carpets in this country. Patronising locally made carpets will save the country foreign exchange as well as create job opportunities. We believe in the Nigerian manufacturing sector and we encourage more consumption of locally made carpets," he says.
Local brands thriving Domestic demand is fuelling new industries. Lagos-headquartered mattress maker Mouka says sales grew by 40% in 2007 and 50% in 2008 on the back of Nigeria's growing middle class and lifestyle changes. The manufacturer has three factories around the country and employs around 600 people producing foam mattresses, pillows and foam material for industrial use. Manglani says carpet manufacturers in Nigeria have invested over N5bn ($33m at today's exchange rate) in the industry in the last two years in state-of-the-art machinery and technology in response to domestic consumer demand.
Manufacturers with strong brands are thriving, argues African equity analyst Christopher Hartland-Peel at investment banking boutique Exotix. Strong sales for Nigeria Stock Exchange-listed (NSE) manufacturers of soaps and beauty products - such as PZ Cussons Nigeria, Unilever as well as GSK Consumer Nigeria (part of GlaxoSmithKline and makers of brands including Aquafresh toothpaste), prove it. "Multinationals play a big part in the domestic manufacturing sector," says Hartland Peel. "They have introduced low-cost manufacturing of valueadded products based on very strong domestic demand."
Industry research group Canadean says Nigeria is one of the top 10 fastest-growing drinks markets in the world. British drinks company Diageo manufactures and sells more Guinness in Nigeria than in any other country apart from Britain.
But it is not just foreign manufacturers that are doing well. McDonald's-style fast food chain, Mr Biggs, part of NSE-listed United Africa Company of Nigeria, has grown from io outlets to 125 in 10 years.
Breweries are amongst the strongest exporters. Kenya's East African Breweries exports its Tusker brand to markets in the UK, US and Japan. Its bottling plant exports 15-20% of production regionally.
Also in East Africa, Nairobi-listed Bamburi Cement, Athi River and East Portland Cement export 15% of their products overseas. Flower producers add value selling readymade bouquets to Europe and to new markets in Australia, Japan, Russia and America, says the Fresh Produce Exporters Association of Kenya.
Regional exporters will get a leg-up from the East African Community Customs Union due on stream in July 2010. Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi will all allow the free movement of goods, services, people and capital within the bloc. This will offer the region's manufacturers enlarged market size, economies of scale and increased intra-regional trade.
However, protectionism is stili a worry. Governments such as Uganda have already given in to internal pressures to protect their industries from imports to save jobs. Kenyan firms say they struggle to sell processed animal products and galvanised iron sheets into Uganda for example. Nevertheless, the union will enable manufacturers to target crucial regional markets, says KAM's Maina. "Last year, Kenya's exports to Africa accounted for Kshi24bn ($1.6bn) compared to $9om earnings from Europe. The value of exports to Uganda alone topped $42m - less than half of the earnings received from exports to Europe."
Expanding manufacturing base
China is also investing in Africa's manufacturing sector, relocating factory work such as toy and shoe making from China to start-up projects in Zambia, Nigeria, Mauritius and Ethiopia in special economic zones.
During the February African Union summit in Ethiopia, the World Bank's president, Robert Zoellick promised to back African manufacturing with expertise and cash. "If you look back at the growth of East Asia, starting with Japan, and then Korea and Taiwan and Southeast Asia and China, they've used the model of basic manufacturing to slowly move up the value-added chain." He said that the World Bank would look for opportunities to co-invest and build infrastructure with China.
Africa's manufacturers say governments need to do more. Tokunbo Talabi, managing director of Lagos-based Superflux International that makes envelopes, wants the government to support businesses through tax breaks and incentives. "I don't think the Nigerian government values Nigerian companies enough. It feels to us like they are happy for a foreign company to come over here and take away our business rather than to support domestic business."
Red tape and hidden costs are a common complaint. The Manufacturers Association of Nigeria cites a recent hike in shipping costs by the Nigerian Ports Authority as an example.
For other manufacturers, like Botswana's new diamond polishing and cutting factories, staff training is the biggest challenge. "Investors have to put lots of time and money here," says Lifshitz.
Despite the obstacles caused by inadequate infrastructure, high transport and production costs, red tape and the lack of skills, manufacturing in Africa is still profitable thanks to a huge domestic market and a growing export market. Africa will only really begin to move towards prosperity if and when its manufacturing output matches that of the strong emerging markets. Has the process started in earnest?
Africa's manufacturers need the support of local consumers to build their businesses.
Africa will move towards prosperity when its manufacturing output matches that of the strong emerging markets SIDEBAR
Betty Maina (right) says Kenya's regional exports outstrip those to Europe.
Domestic manufacturing loses almost 10% in potential sales due to power outages and transport bottlenecks SIDEBAR
Africa's manufacturers need the support of local consumers to build their businesses.
Africa will move towards prosperity when its manufacturing output matches that of the strong emerging markets
Industrial Revolution going on in Africa. Some people don't know that their is a begin of an Industrial Revolution going on in Africa. A lot of countries are starting to build their industry. For example in Nigeria they now manufacture their own car parts, part of motors and in 5 years they will build for 100% their own motors. A lot of western products are been copied. The same what happend 20 years ago in China before their Industrial Revolution is now happening in Nigeria.
Quote: Western scientists confirm the beginning of an industrial revolution in Nigeria. For example in the city Nnewi, 300 kilometres at south of the capital Abuja, their are more then thirty industrial companies who are making car components. On average each company has a small hundred employees in service.
Industrial revolution: African tigers
Les Celliers de Meknes is one of the many industrial companies in Morocco. The firma is owned by Brahim Zniber, who produces especially foods: soft drink, cattle fodder, vegetable oil, textile. Also car components ' The industrial revolution in Morocco stands in the start block-systems
The industrial revolution in Morocco is beginning to start' , according to Bouchaara . ' Except local companies also the foreign investments are growing . Renault builds in Tanger one of the largest car factories in the world. Within ten years our economy is at the level of Spain.' The infrastructure has improved enormously. We have recently a fantastic new motorway from Tanger to Marrakesh. ' Morocco is not the only country in Africa where the industry is starting to begin. Except in a number of other countries in North Africa industrial companies are also strong in rise in particularly Nigeria, Ghana, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mozambique and South Africa. In Nigeria much industrial companies rice slowly from a deep valley. Because of the enormous income from the oil-export other sectors were neglected for decades. The current government tries to change this . Johnny Ekewuba, marketing manager of the Nigerian Ibeto Group. Its company, that especially manufacters car components . ' We grow 5% a year. The products of the Ibeto Group still remain cheap. A set of their brake block-systems costs 300 naira or less than two euro, what ten times are cheaper than in the Netherlands. The beto Group even already started to exports components to the foreign countries. In neighbouring countries Cameroon and Niger Nigerian car absorbers, oil filters and brake block-systems from Nigeria are evrywhere . ' Also we export to India and Great-Britain.'
African economies grew the previous time more strongly than economies in Europe. Except with the industry also companies in the agrarian, financial sector and communication . The coming years the economies are expected further to increase.
Of lot of influential improvements have taken place the previous years in Africa, like the extension of mobile network . In a large number African countries the network were build by the Sudanese businessman Mo Ibrahim, director of Celtel. ' Western investors claimed that it was risky to invest in Africa ' , says Ibrahim : ' I found that fear exaggerated and decided to show that they were wrong.' Good telecommunication is very important for companies. Cable phones in Africa have always had problems ' , thus Ibrahim. ' A connection was expensive, there were technical problems'. Current mobile network is, however, more reliable.' Also Internet has come thanks the mobile network for much more Africans available. Cell Celtel was a huge success., in 2006, he sold his company to an investor in Kuwait, and the the name was changed in Zain. Ibrahim got 3.5 billion dollar,and is now one of the richest Africans in the world. Ibrahim is now seeking to invest in other things ' The foodstuff industry in Africa has huge potential'
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I saved this to remind folks.
[QUOTE=jules3c;51218087]South Africa is not only an industrialized nation, but is also a technological advance nation. And in many fields it is even leading the rest of the Wolrd. A few excample would be solar panel development, the meerkat station station is one of the Wolrds most advanced, military hardware even the American military buys hardware from south Africa like the apc vehicle the best in the wolrd. The krooivalk attack helicopter better than the appache according to Pentagon. These are just a few of their technological advancenment known around the wolrd. In aqua culture they are building the technologicaly most advanced shrimp farm in south Africa right now and China is trying to copy cat it but will be managed from south Africa. In short south Africa is a technological industrial power house. Oh don't forget the electric car develop in south Africa with first Wolrd quality and has recently rejoined the space satellite race and is acquiring nanotechnologycapability..[/QUOTE]
Ethiopia launches electric car despite power shortages
Electric car Many Ethiopians will struggle to afford a Solaris Elettra
Ethiopia has launched an electric car, despite suffering from power shortages. It is only the second African country to do so, after South Africa.
Two versions of the Solaris Elettra will be manufactured in Addis Ababa, costing around $12,000 and $15,000.
The cars will be sold in Ethiopia and exported to Africa and Europe.
But some doubt if Africa, where erratic power supplies, low levels of personal wealth and poor infrastructure are common, is ready for electric cars.
Carlo Pironti, general manager of Freestyle PLC, the company producing the Solaris, told the BBC's Uduak Amimo in Addis Ababa that Ethiopia's electricity shortages were not a major obstacle to operating an electric car.
"Ethiopia in future will have lots of power supply," he said.
"In any case, the car can be recharged by generator and by solar power."
Taxes on cars in Ethiopia can be more than 100% and many Ethiopians with low incomes will struggle to afford an electric car.
To overcome this problem, Mr Pironti says his company will develop a credit system for less affluent customers.
Six Solaris Elettras will be produced every week for the next three months, rising to 30 per week when Freestyle's factory in Addis Ababa is fully operational, he says.
Mr Pironti says he wants to take the Solaris "from a green country to a green world," referring to the company's plans to export the car from Ethiopia to Africa and beyond.
But Wayne Batty, senior writer at South Africa's Topcar magazine, believes only a small percentage of Africa has the necessary infrastructure to support an electric car.
Mr Batty told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme that electric cars are fine for short trips of 40 to 50 km (25 to 31 miles), but African countries lack the recharging points for longer journeys.
Ethiopia's electric car comes after Rwanda launched its first bio-diesel bus last week.
It is currently building a huge hydro-electric dam on the Omo river and hopes to become a major exporter of energy when that is completed.
INTERNATIONAL. Sub-Saharan Africa is likely to remain the second-fastest growing region after Asia in the near future, predicts Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, governor, Central Bank of Nigeria, but “we can catch up with Asia, as the prospect of Africa as the last unexplored territory in the world and the potential of growth remain.”
For this to happen, Sanusi says Africa needs to put in place the right policies, address its infrastructure deficit, and provide the right environment and incentives for businesses and capital to come in. “That includes policy consistency, political stability, the fight against corruption, and improved efficiency in business processes. If we did the same thing that the Asians, such as the Indonesians and the Malaysians, did and if we did it right, we should be able to repeat the experience.”
Raadiya Begg, director of INSEAD Africa Initiative, says exciting developments are taking place in Africa. Out of an increasing number of opportunities for investment in a variety of sectors, there is a focus on growth sectors related to development such as healthcare, alternative energy, logistics, finance, agriculture, technology and telecommunications.
“Take wireless telecommunications, for example. Mobile telecommunications has levelled the economic landscape, and led to the rapid growth of mobile banking and internet usage,” says Begg. “Improved access to information has had profound economic impacts such as more highly competitive pricing – farmers, for instance, are now able to access real-time prices of goods to make informed decisions on whether to participate in a trade; increased worker productivity; and business models geared towards the less wealthy segments of the population.”
Another area of development is in venture capital. “The viability of small and medium enterprises (SMEs) is essential to the health of any economy and the frontier markets are no exception,” argues Begg. “It is the growing entrepreneurial companies that create a multiplier effect.
It is not possible to create sustainable business with microfinance alone. Due to a virtual absence of capital, an equity base in the capital structure, which is almost non-existent in the developing world, is required. Thus, to achieve real impact on societies, expanding venture capital opportunities is a very practical approach.”
Nigeria - a case in point
Citing developments in his own country, Sanusi says the Nigerian economy is about to move to the next level with power reforms, which will bring about rapid growth in manufacturing and processing, as well as double-digit GDP growth.
In the last six years, the economy has been growing at a rate of seven to eight per cent per annum, mainly on the back of growth in agriculture, wholesale and retail trade, and services.
Chronic power outages have, on the other hand, held back economic growth. “Once we address the power infrastructure problems and put the right policies in place, we can easily get to double-digits,” he told INSEAD Knowledge, on the sidelines of The Economist’s Emerging Markets Summit held here recently.
While Nigeria is the leading oil and gas producer in Africa, oil and gas account for only 11%-12% of GDP. So the great potential for growth really comes from agriculture, manufacturing and services, with a lot of room for diversification, says Sanusi. “In the oil and gas and agriculture sectors, there is a lot of upside in processing. This is the country that is the number one producer of cassava in the world. Besides being used for consumption, cassava is now also used as ethanol biofuel feedstock. So there are opportunities for innovation and virgin territories that have not been explored.”
Begg concurs: “As Africa’s biggest oil producer, Nigeria boasts tremendous oil resources and business dynamism. However, of greater interest, is the growth in non-oil output, which is increasing steadily -- such as telecommunications. Nigeria has the eighth fastest telecommunications market in the world and the fastest one in Africa. Together with Kenya, they account for roughly half of Sub-Saharan Africa’s total mobile telecoms revenue.”
Nigerian banks have been consistently outperforming their counterparts in South Africa and Ghana over the past two years, Begg told INSEAD Knowledge. Other sectors showing considerable growth potential include the agricultural sector, building and construction, as well as the hotel and restaurant sectors. “This is barely touching the surface of growth potential that Nigeria has to offer. It has even made a mark in the film industry -- Nollywood, the Nigerian film industry, is the third largest, not far behind Hollywood (US) and Bollywood (India).”
Implications for Western competitors
Africa presents unique first-mover advantages for western organisations that recognise serving ‘bottom of the pyramid markets’ as more than just corporate social responsibility, says Begg. New markets in regions such as Africa present companies with opportunities to innovate their value chain. Companies are forced to refocus their strategic growth efforts and change the way they think about doing business, moving towards providing solutions to customers’ needs instead of ‘pushing products’.
To achieve sustainable growth, organisations venturing into markets such as Africa need to have a long-term view of doing business in the region and aim for a triple or at least double bottom line. “It is not a region for quick wins,” says Begg. “Patience and nerves of steel will take you a long way too.”
China-Africa trade
South Africa and Nigeria are now China’s largest African trade partners. The Chinese have traditionally been involved in construction, textiles and light manufacturing, however they have now gone into oil and gas in Nigeria and would also like to get into power and extractive industries, says Sanusi. “While the Chinese have been active in Nigeria, they are at this moment nowhere near being the biggest investor or trading partner of the country, but (China) is increasing its presence.” The country’s biggest trading partner is the US, followed by France.
Some have expressed concerns about China’s investments in Africa. However, Sanusi says he has never understood “why anyone should have concerns about anybody investing anywhere. We need to continue to attract investments but the investments need to be in the real economy. Diversification of investment resources is useful for African countries.”
He says he would be concerned if there were an undue concentration and over-reliance on one partner, but feels that anything that allows capital to come in from different parts of the world on terms that are not detrimental to the long-term economic interest of the country should be encouraged.
Tainted world views?
Think of Africa and many think of a region rife with crime, poverty, poor health, and poor infrastructure. Are these conditions keeping investors away? Sanusi doesn’t think so. In fact he believes these difficulties provide opportunities for people to come in and address these issues.
Poverty only gets alleviated with investments and economic growth, he argues. And if you’ve got a country in a post-conflict situation that has had an economy that’s badly managed, and it suddenly finds good governance, places like Zimbabwe, Angola, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, for example, offer tremendous opportunities for investments as things improve.
“I don’t think the reality of Africa is exactly the same as the perception; a lot of that is exaggerated, probably based on incomplete information,” says Sanusi. “I’ve had many people comment on Africa who’ve never been there. They are making comments based on what they heard many years ago and they have no idea of the amount of changes that have taken place. Go to places like Mozambique, Angola, Botswana, Ghana, Senegal. A lot is happening in terms of governance, democracy, the fight against corruption, reforms. Many people are not aware of the changes in Africa.”
So how do you change perceptions? Sanusi says one way is to continue doing the right things and doing them consistently. Another is to look the world in the eye and say this is simply not true.
With so much going for Africa economically, will it be the turn of the African lions after the Asian tigers? “I hope it will be, and the first lion will be Nigeria,” says Sanusi.
Note. The Economist’s Emerging Markets Summit was held in London September 15-16, 2010.
This article is republished courtesy of INSEAD Knowledge (http://knowledge.insead.edu)
Nigeria: Manufacturing - 3.6 Percent Contribution to GDP
20 years ago it was 13.8% ___________________________________________________________
Industry in Sudan Sudan enjoys huge agricultural resources (plant and animal), as well as various types of energy and mining resources and skillful manpower at reasonable cost, which constitutes a base for comprehensive industrial development. The concern about manufacturing industry lies in the fact that this sector is an important sector in transforming these resources into commodities and products of high quality and value, to be used for intermediate and final usage. The application of the programs of economic reform and structural adjustments in the economy have a positive impact on the manufacturing industry sector, through the intensification of its participation in the national economy, the enhancement of its competitive capacity and the widening of its productive base.
The manufacturing industry sector contributed to 8.4% of the GDP in Sudan in 2006, with a growth rate of 7%
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Nigeria-MANUFACTURING Courtesy Embassy of Nigeria, Washington
While agriculture's relative share of GDP was falling, manufacturing's contribution rose from 4.4 percent in FY 1959 to 9.4 percent in 1970, before falling during the oil boom to 7.0 percent in 1973, increasing to 11.4 percent in 1981, and declining to 10.0 percent in 1988. Whereas manufacturing increased rapidly during the 1970s, tariff manipulations encouraged the expansion of assembly activities dependent on imported inputs; these activities contributed little to indigenous value added or to employment, and reduced subsequent industrial growth. The manufacturing sector produced a range of goods that included milled grain, vegetable oil, meat products, dairy products, sugar refined, soft drinks, beer, cigarettes, textiles, footwear, wood, paper products, soap, paint, pharmaceutical goods, ceramics, chemical products, tires, tubes, plastics, cement, glass, bricks, tiles, metal goods, agricultural machinery, household electrical appliances, radios, motor vehicles, and jewelry.
note- nigeria industry has increase and so is other areas of africa.
25 June 2010 How non-oil exports drive real GDP growth Lagos — The National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) Wednesday revealed that Nigeria's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for the first quarter of this year grew by 7.23 percent with the Nominal GDP with non-oil sector
being the major driver of growth. The NBS in its 2010 first quarter report on the Nation's GDP and endorsed by the Statistician-General of the Federation, Dr. Vincent Akinyosoye, revealed that the non-oil sector played a dominant role in the real GDP with growth rate of 8.15 as against the previous quarter.
"On an aggregate basis, the economy when measured by the Real Gross Domestic Product (GDP), grew by 7.23 percent in the first quarter of 2010 as against 4.50 percent in the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
"The 2.73 percentage point increase in Real GDP growth observed in the first quarter of 2010 was accounted for by the increase in production in the oil sector of the economy. The nominal GDP for the first quarter of 2010 was estimated at 6,399,716.09 million naira as against the 5,404,850.00 million naira during the corresponding quarter of 2009, thus, indicating an increase of 994,866.09 million naira," the NSS report read in part.
Stating that the oil sector plays a pivotal role in the Nigerian economy as a dominant source of revenue period NBS disclosed that the sector witnessed increased production within the period under review than in the corresponding quarter of 2009.
It cited that about 202,358,601 barrels of crude oil and condensates were estimated for the first quarter of 2010 with an average daily production of 2.25 million barrels per day compared with the 184,661,774 barrels produced within the first quarter of 2009 with a corresponding average daily production of 2.05 million barrels per day.
The NBS explained that the observed increase contribution of oil to the GDP was attributable to the improvement in output, which could be traced to the various interventions by government in the peace process in the oil producing regions.
"The Oil sector contributed about 18.70 percent to real GDP in the first quarter 2009, while the contribution in first quarter of 2010 was however 18.00 percent. The Non-oil sector continued to be a major driver of the economy in the first quarter of 2010 when compared with the corresponding quarter of 2009.
"The sector recorded 8.15 percent growth in real terms in the first quarter of 2010 compared with 7.90 percent achieved a year ago. The Nonoil sector experienced a declining growth in the first quarter of 2010 when compared with the preceding quarter of 2009" the read further observed.
On the subsectors of the non-oil sector of the economy, the NBS noted that during the first quarter of 2010, the manufacturing activities decreased relative to the same period in 2009 as it recorded a decline in growth rate from 7.03 percent in 2009 to 6.43 percent in 2010.
It attributed the development to the low manufacturing activities usually recorded in the first quarter after the festivities in the last quarter of the previous year, poor electric power supply, and inability to access credit from banks arising from the credit crisis in the banking sector.
The Telecommunications sector continued to perform impressively and has remained one of the major drivers of growth in the Nigerian economy. The report pointed that following intensive marketing strategies and value added services by telecommunication companies in Nigeria, the sector recorded a real GDP growth of 32.54 percent in the first quarter of 2010 compared with 31.75 percent recorded in the corresponding period of 2009.
Africa's Industrial Technology Acquisition - UN study
Quote: Africa’s rapid growth in industrial technological acquisition gives rise to the hope that “the Continent may be joining other developing regions in building a sound industrial base, a United Nations (UN) study reveals.
The study by the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) entitled, ‘A technological resurgence? Africa in the global flow of technology’, has concluded that the growth is likely to support production of value-added goods and services as well as high-tech products.
According to Undersecretary-General and ECA’s Executive Secretary, Abdoulie Janneh, the trends associated with technology transfer as assessed in the study provide evidence of the factors driving the impressive economic growth rates recorded in African countries over the last decade.
“The findings reveal an impressive turnaround from the slow growth in Africa’s share of the number of patents, peer-reviewed scientific publications and, technology exports and imports which grew very slowly in the 1980s to 1990s, he says.” “The research provides evidence of a rapid growth rate Africa’s industrial technology acquisition,” he adds.
Janneh points out that inflows of foreign direct investment (FDI), one of the main channels of technology transfer, into Africa soared over 800% between 2000 and 2008. “Some of the investment has gone into the production of drugs, steel, automobiles and electronics, among others - areas that require the use of technology owned by others,” he says.
The Study is the first ever comprehensive research that tracks flows of investment and knowledge mainly by developing regions and developed country groupings and specifically looks at technology transfer trends in areas such as royalties and licensing fees, capital goods, business, professional and technical services, research and development (R&D); as well as intellectual property rights.
The report also noted that Africa posted the fastest growth in capital goods imports between 2001 and 2006 than any other region but the lowest between 1990 and 2006. The import of capital goods increased by about 7.8-fold for LAC, 7.5-fold for Asia, 4.7-fold for North America, 3.9-fold for Europe and only 3.7-fold for Africa between 1990 and 2006.
However, most of the growth in Africa in imports of capital goods was between 2001 and 2006 (a 3-fold increase). In Africa, imports of capital goods increased by more than six times for Madagascar, Zambia, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Guinea and Uganda over the same period.
Africa recorded a 5.6-fold growth in terms of receipts by the United States for BPT services from unaffiliated firms between 1990 and 2005. It lags behind Europe (about 7.7-fold) and Asia (about 6.5-fold).
However, Africa has the fastest growth in payments by United States firms to unaffiliated firms for BPT services (51-fold), followed by Asia (14.2-fold), LAC (9.5-fold), and Europe (8.7-fold) over the same period.
Africa and Asia enjoy tremendous increase in royalties and licensing fees between 1990 and 2008. While royalties and licensing fees rose six times globally, sub-Saharan Africa’s royalty and licensing fee payments went up 10 times – second only to East Asia and the Pacific (57 times). http://newbusinessethiopia.com/index...onal&Itemid=41
12 March 2009 Zambia: New Mobile Phone Plant to Create 200 Jobs ABOUT 200 jobs will be created at the newly opened US$10 million mobile phone manufacturing plant in Lusaka, President Rupiah Banda has said.
Mr Banda also said the Government was planning to reduce the international gateway fees to bring them down to the regional average as a way of promoting the communication sector.
He said when he officially opened the plant in Lusaka yesterday that M Mobile Telecommunications, which is wholly Zambian, would employ technical staff that include engineers and technicians
Mr Banda said he was happy that the investment came at the time when the global financial crisis had exerted massive pressure on most economies around the world.
He said he was pleased to note that the investment situated along Lumumba Road was aimed at benefiting the people in the country through employment creation, technology transfer and human resource development.
"This is what Zambians should be doing to attract foreign investors. Zambians should themselves lead the way by investing in their country," he said.
The president said keeping Zambia competitive started with making the economy grow and that the economy could only grow when more Zambians invested in business.
He said just as the Government expected the citizens to work hard to drive the economy forward, it was also expected to create a conducive and competitive environment for the private sector to thrive.
Mr Banda said that was why the Government in this year's Budget was working towards reducing the international gateway licensing fees to the regional average.
Mr Banda said the move would be done in an effort to reduce the cost of doing business in the communication sector.
He said the Government was cognisant of the fact that delivering on 'soft aspects' of reducing the cost of communication in Zambia was not enough and it would continue to facilitate the 'hard aspects' such as the actual production of mobile phones.
He said he had no doubt that the booming demand for domestically manufactured mobile phones would be strong given that the phones should be competitive.
Mr Banda said the competitiveness of the locally manufactured mobile phones would not only have a ready domestic market but also regional markets and earn Zambia the much-needed foreign exchange.
Communications and Transport Minister, Dora Siliya said the investment by M Mobile Telecommunication was a sign that Mr Banda was committed to making the private sector grow in Zambia.
Ms Siliya also commended Commerce, Trade and Industry Minister, Felix Mutati for attracting several investments in Zambia during various tours around the globe.
Japanese Ambassador to Zambia, Hideto Mitamura said the investment launched yesterday was as a result of the 'Triangle of Hope' initiative, which promoted economic development.
Mr Mitamura said the company was a showcase for other African countries and urged them to emulate the steps the Zambian Government was taking.
He said the Japanese government partnered with the Zambian Government on the project because of the good cooperation between the two countries.
M Mobile Telecommunication Zambia group Chairman Mohamed Seedat said the company was Zambian registered and met the international standards.
Mr Seedat said the plans to set up the company started in 2006 when the Zambian delegation including him were invited to Malaysia.
He said the plant was set up in Zambia because the market was readily available and that the Government was supportive of the idea.
The plant would be assembling phones ranging from ultra low cost to the state of the art Wi-Fi connectivity phones with television.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200903120404.html ________________________________________________ Ghana [ Manufacturer, Trading Company ] SOLAR MOBILE CHARGER It can charge your mobile phone, MP3, MP4, etc. whenever and wherever. Style design is convenient for you to carry....
New cables tie West Africa closer to Internet For a decade, West Africa's main connection to the Internet has been a single fiber-optic cable in the Atlantic, a tenuous and expensive link for one of the poorest areas of the planet.
But this summer, a second cable snaked along the West African coastline, ending at Nigeria's commercial capital, Lagos. It has more than five times the capacity of the old one and is set to bring competition to a market where wholesale Internet access costs nearly 500 times as much as it does in the U.S.
It's the first of a new wave of investment that the U.N.'s International Telecommunications Union says will vastly raise the bandwidth available in West Africa by mid-2012.
"Africa is sort of the last frontier here," said Paul Brodsky, an analyst at the research firm TeleGeography in Washington.
The effects are already being felt in Ghana. Kofi Datsa, general manager of Internet service provider DiscoveryTel Ghana, said it has seen the monthly cost of the access it buys from larger telecommunications carriers drop more than a quarter to $1,625 per megabit per second, from $2,250, in recent months. The carriers, fearing they could lose customers, have started cutting prices ahead of the new cables landing in the country.
Datsa expects his bandwidth costs to drop further in a couple of months, to $350 per megabit per second. By the end of 2011, when two other cables will have gone live, that could go as low as $225, he believes.
But that's still high. In the U.S. and Europe, wholesale Internet connections cost $5 to $10 per megabit per month in major cities, according to research firm TeleGeography.
It's not clear exactly when the cheaper prices will trickle down to the consumer level, but Datsa expects that to happen fairly quickly, as there's plenty of competition, with 25 registered ISPs in the country.
According to the Ghana Internet Service Providers Association, a typical DSL package costs $32 a month, about two-thirds of the average monthly income in the country. It's far slower than DSL service in the U.S., which costs about the same.
The ITU found that 32 million sub-Saharan Africans, or 3 percent, had Internet access in 2008 - the latest figure available. But that number was growing at almost twice the world average rate.
"Internet growth in Africa has been phenomenal and has not shown any signs of being diminished by the worldwide slump in the economy," said Prince Radebe of South Africa's Telkom SA, which has a stake in the older cable. "The investment in international submarine cables will further unlock this growth."
Even with added international communications capacity, Africa still faces another problem: In many places, it doesn't have the fiber cables necessary to carry the signal from the shores inland, said Abiodun Jagun, a lecturer at South Africa's University of Witwatersrand.
And in the countries where there is an expansive network of terrestrial fiber optic cables, such pipes are controlled by telecommunications operators that close them to rivals or charge a hefty premium for Internet traffic.
"There is this mentality, this monopolistic mentality that is hardwired into telecom operators," Jagun said.
Cell phones can help bring Internet access into the hands of consumers, but even wireless networks are dependent on long-haul fiber-optic cables, as the signal travels over the air only for a few miles.
The old cable connecting West Africa to the world, called South Atlantic Telecommunications Cable Number 3/West African Submarine Cable, or SAT-3, is controlled by incumbent telecom operators.
The new $250-million MainOne cable is owned by a consortium of Nigerian banks and financial institutions, South African investors and other African entrepreneurs, none of whom are telecommunications operators. The cable, which has a maximum capacity of 1.92 terabits per second, went live in Ghana and Nigeria last month and has several branching points along the West African coastline ready to connect six other countries.
The other cables in the works are Glo 1, which is owned by Nigerian mobile phone service provider, Globacom Ltd. It will connect Nigeria and its neighbor Ghana with Europe and is expected to go live this year. South Africa-based mobile phone company, MTN Group, is leading another project called West Africa Cable System, which is scheduled to be completed next year. France Telecom is leading another consortium, Africa Coast to Europe, whose cable should be completed mid-2012. And on the eastern Africa coast, it is leading a separate submarine cable project - LION 2.
Apart from extra capacity, the new cables will bring much-needed reliability to communications in Africa. Undersea cables are prone to being damaged by fishermen and earthquakes and take weeks to repair. When SAT-3 broke last summer, it took several countries completely offline for a while, and Nigeria lost 70 percent of its international capacity as it fell back on satellite connections, which are slower and even more expensive than SAT-3.
With multiple cables, French-speaking Senegal may be able to expand its outsourced call centers, and English-speaking Ghana would have a better chance of implementing its plan to get into that business.
Joseph Mucheru, Google Inc.'s regional lead for sub-Saharan Africa, sees great opportunities for West Africa with improved communications, despite the problem of finding enough skilled workers, the lack of security and other challenges.
"I would, however, say all this is outweighed by the opportunities West Africa presents," Mucheru said. "A vibrant, youthful population and thirst for growth and great technology adaptation."
Lone South African sub outwits NATO forces in wargame
In a wargame with NATO, one submarine not only evaded detection but sunk all the ships in the wargame! very impressive.
Atlantic Ocean - A lone South African submarine has left some North Atlantic Treaty Organisation commanders with red faces on Tuesday as it "sank" all the ships of the Nato Maritime Group engaged in exercises with the SA Navy off the Cape Coast.
The S101 - or the SAS Manthatisi - not only evaded detection by a joint NATO and SA Navy search party, comprising several ships combing the search area with radar and sonar; it also sank all the ships in the fleet taking part.
Several times during the exercise that lasted throughout Monday night and Tuesday morning a red square lit up the screens where the surface ships thought the submarine was, but it remained elusive.
This gave Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota something to brag about when he landed on the SAS Amatola to speak to the media on Tuesday.
... Quote: To be able to frustrate detection by NATO nations is no mean achievement; it speaks of the excellence of the equipment we required for this purpose.
And while this left one of the world's strongest military alliances frustrated, it was also a sign that the group had a capable partner in Africa, Lekota said.
A protective gel made using Gilead Sciences Inc's HIV drug tenofovir reduced HIV infections in women by 39 percent over two and a half years - the first time such an approach has protected against the AIDS virus, South African researchers reported.
The results show it may be possible to slow the spread of the disease by giving women a way to protect themselves, Dr. Salim Abdool Karim at the University of KwaZulu-Natal in Durban, South Africa said in results to be released on Tuesday at the International AIDS Conference in Vienna.
Researchers have been trying for years to formulate a microbicide - a gel, cream, ring or tablet inserted into the vagina before sex to prevent transmission of the human immunodeficiency virus that causes AIDS. But past efforts have had disappointing results.
"Boy, have we been doing the happy dance," Karim said in a telephone interview.
In addition, the gel reduced the risk a woman would get genital herpes by 51 percent, a surprise finding that adds further benefits.
The trial of 889 women in the coastal city of Durban and a remote rural village in South Africa showed women largely used the gel as directed, Karim said, answering an important question about whether such a product could work in the real world.
Dr. Anthony Fauci of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said he believed it would be possible to design studies that will get even better results.
"I have a pretty firm conviction that we are going to do better than this," Fauci said in a telephone interview. "Microbicides are going to get on the map."
Slowing a pandemic In this test of a microbicide, called Caprisa, researchers used for the first time a prescription HIV drug in the mix, Gilead's tenofovir. Studies in monkeys have strongly suggested it can protect against both vaginal and rectal infection.
In Africa, where most of the world's 33 million HIV cases are, most new cases are in young women infected by older men. Young boys aged 15-19 do not have high rates of HIV, but girls this age already do.
The Caprisa trial was a classic medical clinical study, with half the women using the gel before and after sex, and half being given a placebo. No one knew who got the real drug.
The women kept track of the applicators, which resemble applicators used to insert tampons, and gave them to researchers so they could be sure when the gel was actually used.
All the women were also given condoms and counseling about sexually transmitted diseases and they were tested for HIV once a month.
After 30 months, 98 women became infected with HIV - 38 in the group that got tenofovir in the gel and 60 in the group that got placebos. "We showed a 39 percent lower incidence of HIV in the tenofovir group," Karim said.
When they checked the data, it turned out that tenofovir lowered the risk of infection by 50 percent at 12 months but then the efficacy declined. Women who used the gel more consistently were much less likely to be infected.
"Why is our effectiveness going down over time? Essentially it is a matter of adherence," Karim said. "We are telling these women we have no idea if this works and we are also telling them we don't know it is safe."
Once women understand the gel will protect them, safely and without side-effects, Karim said, he believes they will use it more consistently.
"It needs to be be marketed and packaged," Karim added. "We had it in a boring white package. We need to make this a sexy gel."
The study was funded by the South African government and USAID. Gilead supplied the drug for no charge but was not otherwise involved.
Karim does not know how much each dose would cost but said the applicators and gel cost just pennies. __________________ "I am the grandchild of the warrior men and women that Hintsa and Sekhukhune led, the patriots that Cetshwayo and Mphephu took to battle, the soldiers Moshoeshoe and Ngungunyane taught never to dishonour the cause of freedom." - President Thabo Mbeki
ken ______________________________________________
Brazil Wants South African Drones to Protect Its Oil and Borders
During Brazilian president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva's recent trip to several African countries Brazil and South Africa signed the most wide-ranging cooperation agreements ever between the two nations.
After a meeting with president Jacob Zuma, Lula declared it was his intention to transfer Brazilian technology in farming and digital TV, as well as to move ahead with plans to jointly build military aircraft.
"We want president Zuma to join us in the construction of the KC-139, a new Hercules transportation airplane that is based on a project by the Brazilian Army," said Lula, adding that nine of the new planes would be flying in 2015.
Lula also revealed Brazilian interest in products made in South Africa. "We are interested in unmanned aircraft and vehicles that South Africa produces," he said, explaining that with recent discoveries of petroleum, Brazil was more than ever interested in border protection.
"We have a lot of borders. Land borders, an enormous coastline. And now petroleum 300 kilometers out in the ocean. If we are not careful, somebody else may want to go out there..." said the president.
At the end of what is probably his last visit to the African continent, Lula summed up his eight years in office by saying that he had gone to more countries in Africa than any other Brazilian president, 27 of them, and that trade had risen from US$ 5 billion in 2003 to US$ 26 billion in 2009.
Lula said that before he leaves office he wants to see at least two more conferences of Brazilian and African businessmen. And he also lamented that there were no direct flights between Brazil and South Africa, saying he was going to try to fix that. __________________
ken
I had to post some old stuff and mostly new stuff because there are folks who just deny or conveniently forget,african advancements past and present.I GETS tiring to remind certain folks of this.
That's all for now,and really that all i have to say.
If you don't get,to bad,no more holding hands for the clueless,life goes on and africans will go on like they always have.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Credit Kenndo for the Info I am posting.:
Japan keen to invest “billions” in Africa
Japan is keen to invest billions of dollars in mineral and infrastructures in Africa, a Japanese trade official said. Vice minister of economy , Trade and Industry Yoshikatsu Nakayama said Japan was scouting for projects in which to invest, either via its state owned oil and mining company JOGMEC or via joint venture between local and Japanese companies. Weather through JOGMEC directly participating or through JOGMEC providing loans to Japanese companies the figure would come to a few hundred million dollars per project Nakayama said during a mining conference. Japan was also looking to develop South Africa`s rare earth metal resources’ but Nakayama said it would take a long time for projects to bear fruit. Nakayama also said Japan was keen to develop Africa’s infrastructure, including rail lines, power plants and other transport links, along with the mines.
Nigeria: Nation to Establish Africa's Largest Science, Tech Park
Abuja — A partnership agreement that would birth the largest science and technology park in Africa in Nigeria's capital of Abuja has been hatched between the National Office for Technology Acquisition and Promotion (NOTAP) and the Abuja Geographic Information Systems (AGIS).
The agreement, which was formalised at the weekend between the two bodies would lead to the transformation of a large expanse of land along the Abuja International Airport Road into the park.
Director General of NOTAP, Umar Buba Bindir, visited the General Manager of AGIS, Isa Jalo Waziri, at the AGIS headquarters in Abuja where the agreement to established the proposed science and technology park to be known as Africa Premier Innovation Corridor (APIC) was reached.
Commenting on the plan in his address at the occasion, Bindir said that NOTAP, an agency under the aegis of the Federal Ministry of Science and Technology (FMST) was established to implement the acquisition, promotion and development of technology and at the same time correct certain imperfections in the acquisition of foreign technology into the country.
He noted that the activities of NOTAP include facilitating the transfer of technology, registration of technology transfer agreements or contracts entered into by Nigeria entrepreneurs and monitoring of same as well as conducting linkages between and among research institutions, industry, venture capitalists and financial institutions.
According to Bindir, the objectives of establishing APIC are to enhance synergy between relevant science and technology stakeholders located in the area as well as promote the use of research and development for the benefit of the economic development of Nigeria.
Other objectives, he added are to highlight the contribution of business incubators and technology innovation in the economic and social development of Nigeria, and also to increase awareness on the role of science and technology parks in Nigeria.
Bindir listed some of the institutions that would make up the APIC as the National Stadium, the National Space Research and Development Agency, the National Biotechnology Development Agency, the African University of Science and Technology, the Abuja Technology Village Complex, the National Cancer Centre, the Nigerian Communication Satellite Ltd, and the National Defence College, among many others.
He stated that the synergy that would be generated among the above listed organizations, which are all located along the Abuja Airport Road would be sufficient to trigger the much desired science and technology based national development.
The NOTAP helmsman regretted that after fifty years of independence, Nigeria had failed to come up with neither a globally recognised company nor product originating from Nigeria indigenous technology because the national economy had not been technology driven.
Adding that NOTAP's visit to AGIS was therefore meant to engage the organization in a creative deployment of knowledge to help Nigeria grow technologically, he said, NOTAP has in the course of its operations discovered that nearly 100 per cent of technologies used in Nigeria are all imported despite our huge knowledge infrastructure of 104 legally recognised universities, 125 polytechnics and more than 500 science and technology related government agencies.
Responding, the GM of AGIS, Waziri expressed profound gratitude to the NOTAP Director General for conceptualising the establishment of APIC in Abuja and pledged his agency's readiness to partner with NOTAP to make the dream become a reality.
He said AGIS had contributed immensely to ensure that the Abuja master plan was restored, adding that the agency deployed Innovative Information and Communication Technology (ICT) strategy developed in- house to curb fraud and enhance land administration in the Federal Capital Territory (FCT).
He noted that AGIS in- house ICT capability which was fully developed by Nigerians was not only unique to the country but was also the best known technology for land administration in Africa.
Adding that AGIS was fully technology driven, he said, with the establishment of AGIS, land administration had been made easy while fraudulent activities had been effectively checked as against the pre-AGIS era.
In a statement by the NOTAPís head, public relations, Adokiye Dagogo-George, Waziri solicited NOTAP's support in the desire of AGIS to patent its breakthroughs in the deployment of ICT for land administration.
Kenya’s technopolis dream gets a boost from European, Asian firms
By Okuttah Mark Posted Tuesday, February 22 2011 at 00:00
At least six firms have expressed interest in competing for contracts to build Kenya’s multi-billion Shilling dream ICT park on a 5,000-acre site south of Nairobi.
Winners of the contracts will become master builders of the $10 billion (Sh800 billion) project, whose construction begins next month at a ground-breaking ceremony to be presided over by President Kibaki.
In the list of contenders are India’s Mahindra, Tata Infrastructure, Leasing and Financial Services, Wipro from America and global technology firm IBM.
Swedish, South Korean and American firms — whose names could not be immediately verified — are also eyeing infrastructure projects at the park.
Construction of the technopolis is hinged on a model that puts third parties at the centre of its execution with the owners — the government — offering the land, legal backing and architectural plans.
Winners of the master builder tender are expected to develop property on location and upon conclusion lease it out (for 99 years) or sell it to interested buyers, the master plan crafted by the Ministry of Information says.
A separate group of bidders will build the city’s infrastructure and levy service charges under the build, operate and transfer (BoT) model.
Lease periods will be hinged on the length of time it takes them to recoup costs without imposing a heavy cost burden on users.
People familiar with the bidders’ plans said a Swedish company is gunning for the tender to construct and manage the technopolis’ sewerage system while the Korean firm wants to build the Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) park.
Infrastructure development at the park situated 41 kilometres South of Nairobi begins next month paving the way for invitation of the initial tenders worth $3.8 billion (Sh304 billion).
“The official launch should make it possible for the government to actively market the project to potential investors throughout the world,” said Dr Bitange Ndemo, the Information permanent secretary.
Prime minister Raila Odinga is expected to lead a team of top government and private sector personalities who will leave the country in April for a road show in New York.
Service providers, including a leading hospital, an international school and an investment group have expressed interest in putting up units at the park, Mr Ndemo said.
Next month’s launch of infrastructure development projects will also see the grounds zoned for planned activities such as IT, hospitality, education, health and finance.
The ICT park is expected to create 80,000 new jobs in the first four years as part of the government’s Vision 2030 development blueprint.
So what we can gather from this is that Africa is pushing on and no one can stop Africa from Developing.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
Thanks king. here are a few more things.there is alot but i will just post these for those who really want to know what' going on.FOR MORE news about africa check out thoses links i provided above.
Now here is a few updated info.
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Subject: The South African engine
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 9:07 AM
THIS SPEECH WAS MADE IN 2004,THE MORE OUT OFDATE STUFF I WILL LEAVE OUT.SINCE THEN NIGERIA GNP WEALTH IS CATCHING UP FAST TO SOUTH AFRICA and other countries have done better since 2004.
now -
The South African engine
That engine is the South African economy. Not only is it the largest economy in Africa by far, with a gross domestic product (GDP) of $456.7 billion in 2003, but over the past decade South Africa has become the single largest source of FDI in Africa, at $1.4 billion per annum.
Much of South Africa’s foreign investment— 63 percent— is directed outside of South Africa’s regional trading bloc, the Southern African Customs Union (SACU), and extends into Francophone and North Africa as well.
The positive effects of this investment are profound. Countries such as Mozambique, for example, which has one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, have been helped along by high levels of inward South African investment.
South African companies are helping to diversify African economies and reduce their dependence on primary sector industries. While most FDI from outside Africa focuses on oil and gas, South African firms are branching out, moving beyond mining and brewing to a diverse range of activities including telecommunications, retail, shipping and banking services. , As South African companies spread across the continent, they are not only entering markets, but creating them. They are building infrastructure, transferring skills and technology, and prompting foreign governments to enforce laws and strengthen democratic institutions. There are some concerns that South African investment represents a kind of “neo-colonialism” in Africa. These concerns are partly driven by lingering resentment over the destructive role that South Africa played in the last decades of the apartheid era in destabilizing its African neighbors. The “neo-colonial” argument is given added weight by South Africa’s huge trade surplus with the rest of the continent. Exports from South Africa to the rest of Africa in 2002 were worth R43 billion (roughly $7 billion at today’s exchange rates); imports amounted to only R5 billion (less than $1 billion), most of which involved oil purchases from Nigeria. That imbalance is at least partially offset by the benefit to African consumers of South African goods and services. Cellular telephones, for example, have become a hugely popular alternative to the inadequate state-run telephone networks in many African countries. South African companies are also working hard to integrate themselves into local economies by training local employees and buying raw materials from local producers.[25] And the peacemaking efforts of the South African government have helped to restore goodwill towards the country in other parts of Africa. In addition, companies in other African states have begun to return the favour by investing in South Africa. The media sector in particular has seen new investments by foreign, African investors. South Africa’s weekly Mail & Guardian newspaper is now owned by the Zimbabwean journalist and entrepreneur Trevor Ncube, and last year the Nigerian media group ThisDay launched a new national daily newspaper of the same name in South Africa. On the whole, South African investment is good for African economies. And so, too, is growth in South Africa’s own domestic economy. A recent study carried out by researchers at the International Monetary Fund concluded that “[a] 1 percentage point increase in South Africa’s per capita GDP growth, sustained over five years, is correlated with a 0.4 – 0.7 percentage point increase in growth in the rest of Africa”. Clearly, South Africa is the best and most important engine of economic growth and development across the African continent. South African economic policy: using the engine? The question then becomes how best to use the South African engine to promote economic growth so that South Africa and other African countries can begin to address the needs of ordinary Africans and to achieve the goals of the AU and Nepad. In the late 1990s, the South African government adopted an ambitious economic policy— named Growth, Employment and Redistribution (GEAR)--that aimed to achieve growth rates of six percent per yearor higher. The government pledged to privatize state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and enact labor market reforms that would encourage new investment and job creation. While the government is still nominally committed to these reforms, it has begun to abandon them. It now favours a policy of state-centered development that aims to achieve economic growth and redistribution through policies of black economic empowerment (BEE), affirmative action and what is generally referred to as “transformation”. There is certainly a need for programs in both the public and private sectors to help those people who were disadvantaged by apartheid. The goal of these initiatives should be to create new opportunities by improving education, expanding property ownership, and encouraging new investment, particularly in labor-intensive industries. Instead, the government is committed to an approach that seeks to engineer particular social outcomes according to demographic targets of racial “representivity”. For companies, this takes the form of “empowerment charters” within each industry, in which firms commit to divest and sell a certain percentage of their equity to black shareholders. It also means adhering to strict new regulations on hiring and promotion, such as the Employment Equity Act of 1998.
Ms Ory Okolloh addresses delegates during the Pan-Africa Media Conference at the KICC in Nairobi last week. Photo/FREDRICK ONYANGO
I am a tree hugger at heart, is the response one gets on asking Ory Okolloh about Ushahidi.com’s commercial prospects. She does see commercial potential for the new media sensation that has probably given her more coverage in the mainstream global media in recent months than the combined space given to President Kibaki, Prime Minister Raila Odinga, Nobel Laureate Wangari Maathai, Safaricom boss Michael Joseph and Inter Milan footballer McDonald Mariga.
Yet, if the global buzz Ushahidi is generating is any guide, we could be looking at a Kenyan Google, Microsoft or Facebook in terms of business potential. Ushahidi is a non-profit venture kept afloat by grants from various foundations, but Ms Okolloh is confident that in a few years, it will be able to sustain itself.
It was built without venture capital, and even the technology developed to run it was deliberately kept open source, ruling out patents and proprietorship. And though she does have two young mouths to feed, she is reluctant to even talk about the prospect of super profits.
Big business is starting to express interest in Ushahidi, but she remains cautious of commercial tie-ups that may cramp her style. That’s the tree hugger in her. Her business card bears no title. It identifies her workplace as Ushahidi — crowdsourcing and crisis information. Against her name is just an e-mail address.
Across the world, however, she is earning recognition as co-founder and principal force behind Ushahidi, an online blogger-generated mapping tool that came into its own with the Haiti and Chile earthquakes and US blizzards. “Africa’s Gift to Silicon Valley: How to Track a Crisis” was the title of a major feature on Ms Okolloh and Ushahidi in a New York Times article published less than a week before the Pan African Media Conference opened in Nairobi. “Ushahidi technology saves lives in Haiti and Chile”, trumpeted the Newsweek interactive site on March 3.
The publicity Ushahidi has generated has also served to put Kenya on the global digital map. And, ironically, if the site is Kenya’s gift to Silicon Valley and the world, it is also a gift from Kenya’s murderous round of post-election violence. Ms Okolloh, who is based in South Africa, had come home to vote and report on the polls when the violence broke out.
Desperate for information and seeking ways to help, she sent out a plaintive cry on her blog: “Any techies out there willing to do a mash up of where the violence and destruction is using Google Maps?” The response was instantaneous. Within days, volunteer programmers had written a software code that allowed anyone to send in information via SMS, blog posts, video, phone calls and photographs.
The information and its exact source was uploaded onto a map, providing a picture of serious hotspots based on the density of data coming from each location. The Kenyan poll violence was a test-run, and come the Haiti quake, Ushahidi became a global sensation. It was the first time such simple technology had been used on this scale and Ushahidi became the default data base for the Red Cross, US army and international relief effort.
Then came Chile, the blizzards that paralysed much of the US, violence in Palestine and India, trouble in Afghanistan … the list keeps growing. “Think about that”, asked The New York Times on the blizzards. “The capital of the sole superpower is deluged with snow, and to whom does its local newspaper turn to help dig it out? Kenya.”
When I first met Ms Okolloh at the annual Highway Africa conference in South Africa a few years ago, she was part of the crowd of young bloggers with a social conscience trying to get a foot in the door. How does it feel now that she sits at the high table? “It feels good,” she says with a laugh, “It’s been a long journey.”
The lesson she learned is that if you stick around long enough and never tire, people will start to pay attention. Ushahidi’s success is great vindication of her faith that technology would explode in Africa as, in the early days, many sneered at bloggers who imagined creating something worthwhile and sustainable.
Internet penetration in Africa was nothing to write home about. Now, thanks partly to the mobile phone revolution, old wisdom has been turned upside down. Market researchers are noting the demographic shift, and it is obvious that anyone wanting to reach the under-25s, half the population, must look to new media.
Moderating a roundtable discussion on new media at the Pan African Media Conference, Ms Okolloh wondered why talk of the concept in Africa too often focuses on the social and economic benefits — paying bills or sending money through M-Pesa; farmers accessing information on weather and fertilisers through SMS.
She thinks the so-called “development” benefit of new media is a by-product; the primary function being fun and ease of communication. But hasn’t Ushahidi itself been a major catalyst for good? Yes, she concurs, but that was dependant on the “fun” technology being available in the first place.
She points to the mobile phone revolution on the continent. If mobile phones were sold as “development” rather than affordable and convenient means of communication, she ventures, they might not have taken off so fast. She also refers to the push towards digital villages in Africa.
This is dedicated to the scientific achievement of Africans to their continent and to the world.
African scientist honored for her work in agriculture Published by GMO Africa | Filed under GMO Africa Blog
An African scientist has been honored for her work in promoting sustainable agriculture in Africa. Prof. Florence Wambugu, who heads the Africa Harvest Biotech Foundation, last week scooped the 2008 YARA prize for the African Green Revolution.
Prof. Wambugu was recognized for promoting the use of tissue culture in banana farming in mainly Kenya. The technology has dramatically improved the standards of living of millions of small-scale farmers in the country and other African countries.
Prof. Wambugu is an exceptional, brilliant and selfless woman. After receiving her education in the U.S. and UK, she declined lucrative jobs there to go back to Africa to help it improve its agriculture. This is uncommon to most Africans who go to Western countries to study. Most, if not all, opt to take up well-paying jobs. The fact that Prof. Wambugu decided to forego such opportunities say a lot about her character and her commitment to see Africa becomes self-sufficient in food production.
Prof. Wambugu has also been at the forefront of the campaign to popularize modern agricultural biotechnology. This has not been a simple task. She has fought with anti-tech organizations, such as the Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, the two anti-biotechnology activist organizations at the forefront of the campaign against genetically modified organisms (GMOs).
To reinforce here support for modern agricultural biotechnology, Prof. Wambugu, soon after receiving the YARA prize, told the SciDev.net web site that the Green Revolution currently being championed by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will have to “…embrace cutting-edge biotechnology.”
This call must be taken very seriously. Prof. Wambugu is not just another activist advocating for agricultural biotechnology. She understands the stuff she’s talking about. Farmers and governments in Africa better listen to her! ________________________________________- Next, we have Philip Emeagwali who is renowned as the "Bill Gates of Africa" and also hailed as one of the finding fathers of the supercomputers and the Internet.
Philip Emeagwali (1954- ), a renown mathematician and supercomputer scientist, is considered by some as one of the "Fathers of the Internet.
Emeagwali was born August 23, 1954 in Akure, a remote village in Nigera. He was the oldest of nine children and was considered a child prodigy because he was an excellent math student. His father spent lots of time helping and nurturing Emeagwali with mathematics. He was so good in math that by the time he got to high school, he was performing so well that his classmates nicknamed him "Calculus." However, he had to drop out of school when he was only twelve years old because he family could no longer afford to send him. When he was only 14, a civil war broke out and he was drafted into the Biafran army. That did not deter Emeagwali, and when the war ended, he continued to study at the local public library. There, in the library, he taught himself advanced math, physics, and chemistry by studying on his own, and at the age of 17, completed his high school equivalency test and won a scholarship to study mathematics at Oregon State University. At Oregon State he majored in mathematics where he received his bachelor's degree. He then went on to earn two master's degrees from George Washington University in Washington, D.C., majoring in Ocean/Marine Engineering and Civil/Environmental Engineering. He received his second master's degree from the University of Maryland in Applied Mathematics. However, that was not enough for Emeagwali. He continued his educational and went on to earn his Ph.D. in Scientific Computing from the University of Michigan.
With an interest in environomental engineering and scientific computing, Emeagwali and other scientists were exchanging views on ways to detect oil reservoirs using supercomputers. Having lived on an oil rich continent as a child and understanding how to drill for oil, Emeagwali decided that he would use the problem of locating oil reservoirs using a supercomputer and simulations as his doctoral dissertation in his pursuit for his Ph.D. Emeagwali knew that the answers could not be found using a few expensive supercomputers (8). He knew he would need more, thousands more to be exact, and he set out to find them. After much research, he located a machine at the Los Alamos National Laboratory called the Connection Machine. The machine had not been used because scientists could not figure out how to make it similate nuclear explosions. This fantastic machine was designed to operate 65,536 interconnected microprocessors and in 1987, he was given permission to use the machine and from far away, he began his experiment. What a success! He was able to correctly compute the amount of oil in the simulated reservoir and the Connection Machine was able to perform 3.1 billion calculations per second. What a machine! Yet, what was so amazing is the fact that he had programmed each of the micro-processors to communicate with six other nearby microprocessors at the same time. This had never been done before Emeagwali's discovery. With his record-breaking experiment and discovery, all over the world, there was now a useful and cheaper way to use similar machines to talk to each other.
Philip Emeagwali's discovery earned him what is considered the Nobel Prize of computing, the Institute of Electronics and Electrical Engineers' Gordon Bell Prize in 1989. He has won over 100 prizes and awards for his work. The Power Mac G4 computer, owned by Apple computer, has utilized his microprocessor technology. Dr. Emeagwali went where others feared to tread. "It was the audacity of my thinking," says Emeagwali, that allowed him to persevere and achieve.
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More accomplishments for African scientists! African Scientists Making Great Strides in Food Production By Cathy Majtenyi Kampala 02 April 2004
<b>President Yoweri Museveni </b> President Yoweri Museveni
The president of the Rockefeller Foundation says African scientists have made great strides in research to increase the continent's food quality and quantity. But he and others say these gains won't mean much if other technologies and land policies do not keep pace.
Rockefeller president Gordon Conway says Africa is going through its own green revolution, with a dedicated group of African scientists devising ways to keep plants safe from diseases and insect attacks and increase crop yields.
He says innovations include producing varieties of cassava - a common tuber crop in Africa - that are resistant to mealy bugs that destroy much of the crop. They have also come up with parasites that eat mealy bugs.
Specially bred banana plants in Uganda and other parts of east Africa can produce up to 90 tons of bananas a hectare, while in West Africa and Uganda, hybrid strains of Asian rice are growing well.
Mr. Conway says African scientists are now plunging into the controversial field of genetically modified, or GM, crops, with encouraging results.
"There's a whole new generation of bright, young Africans in plant breeding and in biotechnology that are showing the way," he said. "I went into the biotechnology laboratories which [Ugandan] President [Yoweri] Museveni opened only a year ago. Those young biotechnologists there are right at the cutting edge of GM transformation, in this case working on bananas."
He says scientists in Kenya, Zimbabwe and South Africa are also conducting leading-edge research. These innovations can potentially help many small-scale African farmers who cannot afford the prohibitive costs of fertilizer. For example, Mr. Conway says, a ton of urea that sells for $90 in Europe goes for $500 in Kenya and $700 in Malawi.
Yet, without fertilizers to keep plant diseases and bugs at bay, the agricultural yields of small-scale farmers can be cut by as much as half, perpetuating the cycle of malnutrition.
Despite the breakthrough innovations, says Mr. Conway, the amount of agricultural education and training taking place in Africa is small compared to what it should be.
"We cannot break out of the cycle of poverty in Africa without well-trained Africans, both in the social sciences and in the natural sciences," said Mr. Conway. "And we haven't been doing enough. World Bank expenditures on agricultural research, extension, and higher education in the decade of the 1990s [was] $5 billion. Only two percent went on training."
Another major problem in most African countries is land tenure. A southern and east Africa representative of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, Victoria Sekitoleko, calls for African governments to come up with clear land ownership policies.
She says most Africans do not own the land they work on, which may give them less incentive to use the breakthrough innovations scientists have come up with.
She wants African governments to reallocate half of the $22 billion they spend on food imports to instead invest in agriculture so that they can produce and eat their own food.
____________________________________________ African Scientists Making Great Strides in Food Production By Cathy Majtenyi Kampala 02 April 2004
<b>President Yoweri Museveni </b> President Yoweri Museveni
The president of the Rockefeller Foundation says African scientists have made great strides in research to increase the continent's food quality and quantity. But he and others say these gains won't mean much if other technologies and land policies do not keep pace.
Rockefeller president Gordon Conway says Africa is going through its own green revolution, with a dedicated group of African scientists devising ways to keep plants safe from diseases and insect attacks and increase crop yields.
He says innovations include producing varieties of cassava - a common tuber crop in Africa - that are resistant to mealy bugs that destroy much of the crop. They have also come up with parasites that eat mealy bugs.
Specially bred banana plants in Uganda and other parts of east Africa can produce up to 90 tons of bananas a hectare, while in West Africa and Uganda, hybrid strains of Asian rice are growing well.
Mr. Conway says African scientists are now plunging into the controversial field of genetically modified, or GM, crops, with encouraging results.
"There's a whole new generation of bright, young Africans in plant breeding and in biotechnology that are showing the way," he said. "I went into the biotechnology laboratories which [Ugandan] President [Yoweri] Museveni opened only a year ago. Those young biotechnologists there are right at the cutting edge of GM transformation, in this case working on bananas."
He says scientists in Kenya, Zimbabwe and South Africa are also conducting leading-edge research. These innovations can potentially help many small-scale African farmers who cannot afford the prohibitive costs of fertilizer. For example, Mr. Conway says, a ton of urea that sells for $90 in Europe goes for $500 in Kenya and $700 in Malawi.
Yet, without fertilizers to keep plant diseases and bugs at bay, the agricultural yields of small-scale farmers can be cut by as much as half, perpetuating the cycle of malnutrition.
Despite the breakthrough innovations, says Mr. Conway, the amount of agricultural education and training taking place in Africa is small compared to what it should be.
"We cannot break out of the cycle of poverty in Africa without well-trained Africans, both in the social sciences and in the natural sciences," said Mr. Conway. "And we haven't been doing enough. World Bank expenditures on agricultural research, extension, and higher education in the decade of the 1990s [was] $5 billion. Only two percent went on training."
Another major problem in most African countries is land tenure. A southern and east Africa representative of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, Victoria Sekitoleko, calls for African governments to come up with clear land ownership policies.
She says most Africans do not own the land they work on, which may give them less incentive to use the breakthrough innovations scientists have come up with.
She wants African governments to reallocate half of the $22 billion they spend on food imports to instead invest in agriculture so that they can produce and eat their own food. ___________________________________ Home >> Sci-Edu UPDATED: 08:12, January 30, 2007 African scientists to introduce new drought-resistant maize font size ZoomIn ZoomOut
A group of African scientists has launched a new initiative that will mark a major scaling up of work on drought-tolerant maize for Africa.
The scientists said the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation funded initiative totaling 5.8 million U.S. dollars will be introduced to farmers in eleven drought-hit countries in Sub-Saharan Africa where millions of people are facing food insecurity.
"With every year of research that we do now and in the future, we can add to a drought-affected fields another 100 kgs of maize," said Marianne Banziger, director of the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center (CIMMYT) told a recent news conference in Nairobi.
Banziger, whose organization teamed up with the International Institute of Tropical Agriculture (IITA) to develop the maize seeds, said there was much more potential to be realized to farmers in the region, potential that can raise farm families from below subsistence to annual surplus.
She said CIMMYT and IITA will combine their expertise in working with maize farmers in varying agroecologies across the continent and will draw from the genetic resources (maize seeds) held in their two substantial germplasm banks to make this research program truly pan-African.
"The importance of this working to sub-Saharan Africa and its people cannot be overestimated," said Romano Kiome, Kenya's permanent secretary in the Ministry of Agriculture.
"It is heartening that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has recognized it and sees the long-term vision of this project as part of their strategy to help Africa's development," Kiome noted.
"The vision of the new work is to generate maize varieties which are much hardier when drought hits," said Wilfred Mwangi, CIMMYT's project leader.
"Doubling the yield of adapted maize varieties under drought is the ambitious goal for the next 10 years and is possible because of the huge, natural, genetic variation in maize and new scientific methods that permit better use of this variation," he added.
The scientists said increasingly erratic weather, perhaps as a result of global warming, has made the situation of small-scale farmers in sub-Saharan Africa more precarious than ever.
"New varieties of drought-tolerant maize will play a significant part in mitigating the potentially disastrous consequences for the crop that could result from global warming," said Dr. Sarah Hearne, IITA scientist.
More than a quarter of a billion Africans depend on maize as their staple food, often eating a quarter kilogram or more of maize and maize products every day.
Source: Xinhua _________________________________________ SA company unveils world-class locally developed electric car
Appropriately named Joule, the zero emission car is a six-seater MPV (multi-purpose vehicle). Designed by Optimal Energy in association with legendary South African born automotive designer, Keith Helfet, the ultra sleek Joule made its global debut at the Paris Motor Show in October.
Comments Kobus Meiring, CEO of Optimal Energy, “The world’s finite energy sources are being used inefficiently and urban transport plays a major role in energy wastage and climate changing pollution.
Joule is Optimal Energy’s solution to change that. We have capitalised on the opportunity presented by the exponential increase in oil costs and the dramatic improvement in battery price, life and performance. Joule’s value proposition is made more compelling when environmental influences such as increasing pollution and global warming phenomena caused by the rapid increase in urbanisation are also considered."
Furthermore, Joule is fully aligned with Optimal Energy’s vision to establish and lead the electric vehicle industry in South Africa as a springboard to global expansion.”
Joule’s interior and exterior was styled by Keith Helfet who has a long and illustrious history as chief stylist at Jaguar and, who was responsible for such iconic designs as the XJ220, the XK180 and the F-Type.
“Keith was serendipitously introduced to Optimal Energy while purchasing coastal property in South Africa and was immediately captivated by our vision. Optimal Energy was searching for a world class designer, the fact that Keith is South African born and has strong South African roots matched our criteria perfectly,” says Meiring.
Joule’s chassis has been designed to accommodate two large-cell lithium ion battery packs which employ chemistry similar to that used in mobile phones and laptop computers. This chemistry is inherently safe; lithium is found in many medicinal applications and the batteries do not contain any heavy metals.
Using a normal 220 Volt home outlet and Joule’s onboard charger, it will take approximately seven hours to recharge Joule’s battery for a 200km driving range, with two packs providing 400km in total. Joule’s large battery bay is able to accommodate a number of different battery configurations from different suppliers, giving the customer the choice of performance and cost.
“Studies show that 99 percent of urban users drive less than 150km’s a day, Optimal Energy recommends that only one battery pack is necessary to power Joule,” continues Meiring.
Independent analysis of Eskom, the country’s sole electricity provider, has confirmed that the South African grid has enough capacity to supply electrical energy to millions of cars without affecting its customer base or requiring any additional infrastructure.
Eskom has vast amounts of excess energy between 11 PM and 6 AM (GMT +2); this will be the recommended recharging time. Electric cars only require about 20 percent of the energy that conventional cars require; this means that the total emissions are much less, even if Eskom’s coal dominated electricity is used. With the global trend of electricity generation becoming more renewable and cleaner, total emissions caused by electric cars will continue to shrink.
The South African province of Gauteng is currently being evaluated for Joule’s first assembly plant as it has the biggest cities and has expressed interest in placing the first fleet orders. Although supplier lists are not yet final, it is expected that the local content of Joule will be more than 50 percent.
Joule will be sold in all major South African centres; Gauteng, Cape Town and Durban and will be available towards the end of 2010. Joule was developed for the international market and sales and exports will follow shortly after the South African launch. - SouthAfrica.info
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Subject: SA to spend billions on infrastructure
Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 8:06 AM
General South Africa Travel Information South Africa is the economic powerhouse of Africa with first world infrastructure and a thriving economy. The road and rail network is well developed making travel around South Africa easier and the country is open to investment and development.
Such is the faith in the future of South Africa; it was awarded the rights to host the world's largest sporting event, the 2010 Soccer World Cup.
The positive aspects of South Africa are dampened by social problems such as HIV and crime. However, there is still a very positive attitude towards the future.
South Africa Travel - Culture Go2Africa’s South Africa travel guide comprises of the most popular destinations to visit within South Africa. Peruse the menu on the left to explore the cities and attractions. Follow the accommodation and tour links to find and book your dream South Africa travel destination. South Africa is one of the most diverse and beautiful countries to travel in the world. Aptly nicknamed the Rainbow Nation, its spectacular and varied land and its friendly people never fail to captivate those who travel in South Africa.
We at Go2Africa have selected our top South Africa travel destinations to help you choose you ideal travel holiday. Whether you are looking for a wildlife, beach or adventure holiday we have them all for you. If you don’t find what you are looking for or decide to travel to another destination in Africa, just follow one of the links on the left to find that dream vacation. Go2Africa has an extensive, constantly updated website with more than 10000 pages of information, accommodation, tours and much more about all your favourite travel destinations in Southern and Eastern Africa.
along with the best and least crowded beaches in the world. Throw in wildlife parks such as the Kruger Park, beautiful natural scenery, a great infrastructure, and a stable post-apartheid environment and you have a great travel destination waiting to happen.
SA to spend billions on infrastructure Michael Appel
11 February 2009 Government spending of R787-billion on public infrastructure over the next three years will push South Africa's budget deficit to 3.8 percent in 2009, Finance Minister Trevor Manuel announced on Wednesday. 2009Wednesday
Delivering his 2009/10 Budget speech in Parliament in Cape Town, Manuel said that decreased demand for South African commodities and lower outputs, coupled with decreased domestic growth, meant the government had to borrow more funds in order to finance planned public infrastructure projects.
"Although the budget deficit will rise to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product [GDP] next year, debt service costs will remain moderate over the next three years, at about 2.5 percent of GDP," Manuel said. said
"This is possible because we had the courage to make the right choices over the past decade." possible
Unpopular choices pay off
The government's prudent spending policy in the past meant it could now spend on things such as transport, health and education where other governments were not able to.
In 1996, South Africa's public debt was 48 percent of GDP and rising, and the National Treasury came up with a macroeconomic strategy which confronted the problem boldly and decisively.
"Reducing the budget deficit was neither easy nor popular … but it was the right thing to do, and the outcome is that year by year the burden of debt service costs has declined and resources have been released to spend on education, health care, housing and infrastructure.
"This also means that today we are able to respond to the economic downturn boldly and decisively."
The funds South Africa is borrowing are not being used to fund failed banks, as is taking place in the United States and Europe, but to construct roads and power stations, classrooms and wards, modernise technology and transform public service delivery, Manuel noted.
Road, railways, classrooms, clinics ...
The 2009 Budget makes a further R6.4-billion available for public transport, roads and rail networks; R4.1-billion for school buildings, clinics and other provincial infrastructure projects; and R5.3-billion for municipal infrastructure and bulk water systems.
Housing and the eradication of informal settlements remain at the forefront of the government's infrastructure investment plans, he said, adding these issues significantly affected both employment and poverty reduction. affected .
"In the past three years, the municipal infrastructure grant programme has spent about R32-billion. Over the next three years, infrastructure grants to municipalities total R67-billion, and a further R45-billion will be spent on the Breaking New Ground housing programme. spent .
"Together with investment in roads and public transport, these constitute one of the largest areas of expansion of public sector spending, and are rightly prioritised as part of our response to the current deterioration in employment and economic activity."
State-owned enterprises
Of the budgeted R787-billion for the next three years, R390-billion will be spent by state-owned enterprises, Manuel said. owned
The government will also allocate R25-billion over the next three years to the Rail Commuter Corporation to invest in new trains and introduce new train routes. The budget for rail safety inspectors to reduce accidents and delays is also being increased.
The R25-billion Gautrain project, which recently enjoyed a successful maiden test run with journalists aboard, is nearing completion, with the link between Sandton and the OR Tambo International Airport to be completed by early 2010. be
The Bus Rapid Transit system will receive R12-billion over the next three years.
"We are also budgeting R1.6-billion for South African Airways to support its turnaround strategy, which includes reducing costs and improving efficiency," Manuel said, adding: "I am sure that the House will agree with my hopes that this will not be a recurring allocation." my ."
The state airline has been fraught with financial difficulties in the past, with the government having to come to its aid on numerous occasions.
Source: BuaNews
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Lagos Assembly May Adopt Yoruba as Official Language
By Deji Elumoye, 11.28.2007
Lagos State House of Assembly yesterday said it is considering the use of Yoruba language as its working language on the floor of the Assembly. This is in response to a letter to this effect, written by one Mrs Ohiri Anuche, who described herself as a concerned citizen. In the letter read on the floor of the Assembly, the woman said it was not in the interest of the grassroots for proceedings in the Assembly to be held in English Language, considering the fact that many of them do not understand the language. She cited the examples of Anambra, Ogun and Ekiti states, where local languages are used. Debating the matter, Honourable Sanai Agunbiade, Ikorodu 1, said writer of the letter was simply drawing attention “to a constitutional provision, which says "state Assemblies could transact their businesses in English Language or other languages spoken by the people." In his contribution, Mr Oshun Olanrewaju, Lagos Mainland II, argued that it was necessary to conduct the business in Yoruba Language at least once a week, to carry the people at the grassroots along. “My mother for example, may want to hear her son or follow proceedings of those who represent her, but since she does not understand English, she would be robbed of this privilege,” he said. Mr Oshinowo Adebayo, Kosofe 1, said this will force children to understand their mother tongue, because many of them do not speak or understand Yoruba.
However, the Majority Leader, Kolawole Taiwo, Ajeromi-Ifelodun 1, differ because, according to him, he represents a section of the state where majority do not speak Yoruba.“I represent Ajegunle, which is dotted with people of various ethnic groups, and I am obliged to use the English Language, so that I can communicate with them and vice-versa,” he said.The Speaker, Adeyemi Ikuforiji, suggested that the matter be put in proper motion for consideration, but added that anybody who had lived in a place for up to 10 years should be able to speak and understand the language of that place.
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AND Africans are now watching more Nollywood movies than Hollywood
Africans are now watching more Nollywood movies than Hollywood "Africans are now watching more Nollywood movies than Hollywood ," says director and producer Nigeria Zeb Ejiro.
This success has been amplified by continental pay-TV MultiChoice South Africa offers four channels in its bouquet continuous 100% African content, including two films broadcast in Hausa and Yoruba, two of the major languages of Nigeria.
In Central Africa, Nollywood productions are only sold under the label "African films. These films are dubbed in French in Cameroon and Gabon and Lingala spend on television in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
In Kenya English, Nollywood works very well but also faces competition in front of Bollywood because of the large community of Indian origin.
Nigerian films are so popular in Sierra Leone that according to Thomas Jones, an author of radio plays, they are now strangling the little local production. Virtually no one escapes the romance or the violent Nigerian: in the tiny
Gambia, Nollywood has become everywhere, "to Hollywood," said a Nigerian businessman, Barnabas Eset, which rents DVDs since 2000 . We love it also in the townships of South Africa and yet since the end of apartheid, the local film industry is progressing.
The science fiction film "Distric 9" Neill Blomkamp's even been nominated at this year's Oscar in Hollywood.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
recent news
here is something from west africa for now.
Fresh beginning for Nigeria's Auto Industry as Innoson Vehicles sets up new car manufacturing plant Once it begins, industrial revolutions rarely stop. There may be a decline in the relative importance of early centres of industrial growth and significant shifts in location. This can also be the story of what is happening in Nnewi, Anambra State, south east of Nigeria; it is gradual, but the industrialisation is steady.
And one of the companies that is hugely involved in the industrialisation of the area and Nigeria in general, is Innoson Group. The company's latest foray is in the area of auto manufacturing through its Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing (IVM) Company Limited. In no distance future, the company will launch its series of IVM vehicles into the Nigerian auto market. The unique thing about the vehicles is that they are wholly Nigerian made. All the parts and other raw materials are sourced locally except the engine blocks that are sourced from Toyota, China.
If the company finally pushes the vehicles into the market, which it hopes will crash the cost of vehicles in the country, it will make history of not only manufacturing world tested vehicles, but further mark the first time vehicles are manufactured locally in this part of the world. Presently, the company is manufacturing a 43-seater bus, 17-seater bus, an SUV (Jeep), pick-up trucks for various purposes, while the IVM saloon cars will soon be added in the production line.
The Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Innoson Group, Chief Innocent Chukwuma told THISDAY in Nnewi last week that despite the fact that the vehicles are manufactured, the prices are going to be competitive and affordable. He intends to crash the cost of new vehicles in the country as he did few years ago when he crashed the cost of motor bikes when the price of the imported ones were getting astronomical for the common man on the street who needs it. At the end of the day, he said there would be no reason for one to go for second hand vehicles when he can afford new ones from the IVM range.
The journey for the Nigeria made vehicles by Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing Limited did not start yesterday. It is the fruit of a long term planning and huge infrastructural investment. Incorporated in February 2007, with head office and plant located in Akwa-Uru Village in Umudim, Nnewi in Anambra State, Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing Company, was established to produce a wide range of automotive products like cars, commercial buses, making use of substantial local input.
According to Chukwuma, when fully operational, the plant which is built in the collaboration of a consortium of Chinese auto-makers, is expected to produce other vehicles like trucks, pickup vans, tricycles and purpose-built vehicles like Police patrol vans, refuse collectors/compactors as well as sport utility vehicles (SUVs). Samples of the vehicles that rolled out of the plant were displayed at the recent Nnewi International Auto Trade Fair and the vehicles were highly commended by the Federal Government officials.
With an employment target of about 500 Nigerians and a sprinkle of Chinese expatriates, Innoson Vehicles Manufacturing Company Limited is expected to have an installed capacity for 10,000 vehicles per annum and a turnover of N30.4 billion. As the initial units displayed and test-driven in Nnewi last November are pointers to the foray, the IVM-badged vehicles will compare favourably with imported ones in terms of performance and durability, but will have the advantage of affordability owing largely to high level of local content.
The company's chairman said there is no doubt that Innoson is poised to replicate in the auto industry the revolution it set off in the motorcycle market some years back with the products from its Innoson Nigeria motorcycle plant in the same Nnewi.
Those who have followed the growth of IVM believe that the story of Innoson Group began with foresight, hardwork, perseverance and investment acumen of Chukwuma. They also said that it is about an investor who as a young man ventured into trading in tyres, motorcycle parts and accessories of mainly Honda brand, under the business name of Innoson Nigeria Limited in 1981.
With time, the company flourished remarkably and from being well known as leader in the business of motorcycles and accessories, the company launched into the importation of products from China. By 1990s, Innoson Group had become such a force that its products were dominating the market in all parts of the country and the West Africa sub-region with demand some times outstripping supply.
As a visionary investor and businessman, Chukwuma immediately realised that time was now to domesticate the production of motorcycles with substantial local input. Business watchers said the integration had attendant benefits of enhancing Innoson grip on the market and contributing positively to the development of the economy by way of technological transfer, employment opportunities and competitive pricing of motorcycles.
As the parent company, Innoson Technical and Industrial Company Limited later in 2002 veered into other lines of productions. Located in Emene, Enugu, Enugu State, the company engages in the manufacture of top-grade plastic products for household use, industrial applications and export.
Known formerly as Easter Plastics and owned by the old Anambra State government, the company was at the time of the acquisition by Innoson, derelict with obslete machinery. Chukwuma later reequipped the factory with modern machines and tools and transformed it into the biggest plastics company in Nigeria with products widely acclaimed to be among the best in the market. Presently, the company makes more than 60 plastics products with the list expanding every day.
Satisfied by the quality of the company's products, in 2008, the Standard Organisation of Nigeria (SON), at an elaborate event in its factory in Emene, presented the company with a MANCAP quality certificate after rigorous tests on some of its lines of products including the internationally acclaimed Innoson plastic chairs.
Innoson Group is bound to grow further when the General Tyres and Tubes Limited also located in Emene Industrial Layout, Enugu comes on stream in no distant future. When completed, the tyre factory will have the capacity to meet the nations motorcycle and motor tyres and tube needs. The company is being established in partnership with other Nigerian investors and Chinese technical partners. With this and other companies in the pipeline, Innoson has continued to grow into the country's formidable industrial giant with the presence in various vital productive sectors of the economy and affecting the lives of families across the country in various ways.
While Chukwuma expands his lines of business, he is asking government to grant the companies some incentives like tax reliefs. He said his companies are not getting any such relief from any government quarters.
Innoson Group, according to its chairman, may explore the stock market option. "But certain things has to be on ground before this move is made, he told THISDAY in his office in Emene, Enugu. Other companies like Cutix Plc and Adswitch Plc have adopted this approach. Chukwuma preferres to go public rather than use private placement for three main reasons. He wanted the shares to be marketable. He believes it would be easier to raise more funds in future.
According to a recent report, the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation (UNIDO), the World Bank Group (WBG) and the African Project Development Fund (APDF) are jointly mounting a program aimed at developing the Nnewi Automotive Industrial Cluster to a self-sustaining standard. This is a big boost to the industrialisation of Nnewi. Nnewi at present is the source of more than 80 per cent of motor spare parts trade in Nigeria (both for automotive and motorcycle).
HAVE TO REPEAT THIS ONE since this is more recent too.
For example in Nigeria they now manufacture their own car parts, part of motors and in 5 years they will build for 100% their own motors.
A lot of western products are been copied. The same what happend 20 years ago in China before their Industrial Revolution is now happening in Nigeria.
Western scientists confirm the beginning of an industrial revolution in Nigeria. For example in the city Nnewi, 300 kilometres at south of the capital Abuja, their are more then thirty industrial companies who are making car components. On average each company has a small hundred employees in service.
The industrial revolution in Morocco is beginning to start' , according to Bouchaara . ' Except local companies also the foreign investments are growing . Renault builds in Tanger one of the largest car factories in the world. Within ten years our economy is at the level of Spain.' The infrastructure has improved enormously. We have recently a fantastic new motorway from Tanger to Marrakesh. ' Morocco is not the only country in Africa where the industry is starting to begin. Except in a number of other countries in North Africa industrial companies are also strong in rise in particularly Nigeria, Ghana, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mozambique and South Africa. In Nigeria much industrial companies rice slowly from a deep valley. Because of the enormous income from the oil-export other sectors were neglected for decades. The current government tries to change this . Johnny Ekewuba, marketing manager of the Nigerian Ibeto Group. Its company, that especially manufacters car components . ' We grow 5% a year. The products of the Ibeto Group still remain cheap. A set of their brake block-systems costs 300 naira or less than two euro, what ten times are cheaper than in the Netherlands. The beto Group even already started to exports components to the foreign countries. In neighbouring countries Cameroon and Niger Nigerian car absorbers, oil filters and brake block-systems from Nigeria are evrywhere . ' Also we export to India and Great-Britain.'
Africa's Industrial Technology Acquisition - UN study
Quote: Africa’s rapid growth in industrial technological acquisition gives rise to the hope that “the Continent may be joining other developing regions in building a sound industrial base, a United Nations (UN) study reveals.
The study by the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) entitled, ‘A technological resurgence? Africa in the global flow of technology’, has concluded that the growth is likely to support production of value-added goods and services as well as high-tech products.
According to Undersecretary-General and ECA’s Executive Secretary, Abdoulie Janneh, the trends associated with technology transfer as assessed in the study provide evidence of the factors driving the impressive economic growth rates recorded in African countries over the last decade.
“The findings reveal an impressive turnaround from the slow growth in Africa’s share of the number of patents, peer-reviewed scientific publications and, technology exports and imports which grew very slowly in the 1980s to 1990s, he says.” “The research provides evidence of a rapid growth rate Africa’s industrial technology acquisition,” he adds.
Janneh points out that inflows of foreign direct investment (FDI), one of the main channels of technology transfer, into Africa soared over 800% between 2000 and 2008. “Some of the investment has gone into the production of drugs, steel, automobiles and electronics, among others - areas that require the use of technology owned by others,” he says.
The Study is the first ever comprehensive research that tracks flows of investment and knowledge mainly by developing regions and developed country groupings and specifically looks at technology transfer trends in areas such as royalties and licensing fees, capital goods, business, professional and technical services, research and development (R&D); as well as intellectual property rights.
The report also noted that Africa posted the fastest growth in capital goods imports between 2001 and 2006 than any other region but the lowest between 1990 and 2006. The import of capital goods increased by about 7.8-fold for LAC, 7.5-fold for Asia, 4.7-fold for North America, 3.9-fold for Europe and only 3.7-fold for Africa between 1990 and 2006.
However, most of the growth in Africa in imports of capital goods was between 2001 and 2006 (a 3-fold increase). In Africa, imports of capital goods increased by more than six times for Madagascar, Zambia, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Guinea and Uganda over the same period.
Africa recorded a 5.6-fold growth in terms of receipts by the United States for BPT services from unaffiliated firms between 1990 and 2005. It lags behind Europe (about 7.7-fold) and Asia (about 6.5-fold).
However, Africa has the fastest growth in payments by United States firms to unaffiliated firms for BPT services (51-fold), followed by Asia (14.2-fold), LAC (9.5-fold), and Europe (8.7-fold) over the same period.
Africa and Asia enjoy tremendous increase in royalties and licensing fees between 1990 and 2008. While royalties and licensing fees rose six times globally, sub-Saharan Africa’s royalty and licensing fee payments went up 10 times – second only to East Asia and the Pacific (57 times). http://newbusinessethiopia.com/index...onal&Itemid=41
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Rich structural complexes are found in sub-sahara like the Aksumite complex for one.
Reference:
Archaeology at Aksum, Ethiopia, David W. Phillipson (1993-7)
Stuart Munro-Hay, Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity (1991)
quote:Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
Why the mudhut perspective?
There are self independent nations functioning just like any other functioning nation. Am i supposed to believe the words of a European in determining African contribution and history rather than the people of Africa themselves?
quote: So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Read textual evidence above.
quote:Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
I am not an Afrocentric and neither are the many blacks circulating this forum.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
If Europe with the blood of all humanity dripping from its fangs is civilized then what is civilization? The mere posession of weaponry and technology?
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
^Lol,
To me, though often holding venom and taking "brain farting" to another level, questions like this - even though tautology and, for this one, at that one being based in fallacious premise - are not as ridiculous or stupid as when that Sshaun002 guy right when we thought dude was done being racist and just a naive question asker asked: "what has Africa got to give other than AIDs?".
I remember a few lightly commented about extremely retarded sincere questions presumably non-retarded people had for them in real life but Explorer politely asked in a big paragraph, basically: why would European nations and others have gone on such Imperialistic paths in Africa and why would they still be there were it that all that was for Africa to give is AIDs?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: If Europe with the blood of all humanity dripping from its fangs is civilized then what is civilization? The mere posession of weaponry and technology?
Its nothing but pure Ignorance and refusal to accept the common facts of history. They will try all kinds of ways to seperate Africa from her High Culture, by claiming Arabs or some Renegade Semi Cvilized people brought Civilization to saying people who are Jet Black are some how Caucasians from some "Back Migrations"..etc.
When it comes to West and Central Africa they pretend the Info does'nt exist...Helps them cope with their Bell Curve Philosophy..LOL.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
ROTFLMAOH
That has to be an egyptsearch record for a troll getting debunked that quick! And you thought Assforrides learned his lesson here!
A question to the author of this thread and all other Euronuts:
Why are you guys so damn stupid??!!
You continue to make these claims and conjectures on black African inferiority and that pharaonic Egypt was not black African, yet you are proven wrong over and over and over again each and every time.
Logic and plain common sense should dictate a normally functioning mind to admit defeat and accept TRUTH. Yet you guys don't. Why is THAT?? LOL Posted by Zioncity (Member # 18034) on :
Damn this site is great where else can a kracker get beat down that quick without leaving his house!!!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: They like to use the word mud because the sort they usually address themselves to are too stupid to know the word adobe and are unfamiliar with mud architecture attaining to 10 stories in height, as in Yemen, and are also too stupid to know a hut is a small dinky construct.
I find the white racist obsession with African "mud huts" to be hilarious considering that these structures below were the most common European households as recently as the Roman period.
This very mentality is the very reason why most Europeans, and especially northwestern Euros would rather speak of the "Classical" civilizations of Rome and Greece than the actual Celtic and Germanic cultures of their own people. How pathetic.
By the way, what makes the Euronuts' obsession with "mud" structures hilarious is that Nordic Euros literally lived in the earth by hollowing out hills.
^ The homes of the Hobbits in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings were based on and modeled after such Norse homes.
Talk about dirt or soil huts.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
cassiterides where are you son?? come back and finish what you started, lets have some feed back..
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote: Great Zimbabwe Ruins
The Great Zimbabwe Ruins (sometimes just called Great Zimbabwe) are sub-Saharan Africa's most important and largest stone ruins. Designated a World Heritage Site in 1986, the large towers and structures were built out of millions of stones balanced perfectly on top of one another without the aid of mortar. Great Zimbabwe gave modern Zimbabwe its name as well as its national emblem -- an eagle carved stylishly out of soapstone which was found at the ruins.
The Rise of Great Zimbabwe:
The Great Zimbabwe society is believed to have become increasingly influential during the 11th Century. The Swahili, the Portuguese and Arabs who were sailing down the Mozambique coast began trading porcelain, cloth and glass with the Great Zimbabwe people in return for gold and ivory. As the Great Zimbabwe people flourished, they built an empire whose huge stone buildings which would eventually spread over 200 square miles (500 km2). It is thought that as many as 18,000 people lived here during its heyday. The Fall of Great Zimbabwe: By the 15th Century, Great Zimbabwe was in decline due to over population, disease and political discord. By the time the Portuguese arrived in search of rumored cities built of gold, Great Zimbabwe had already fallen into ruin.
Recent History of Great Zimbabwe:
During colonial times when white supremacy was in vogue, many believed that Great Zimbabwe couldn't possibly have been built by black Africans. Theories were bandied around, some believed that Great Zimbabwe was built by Phoenicians or Arabs. Others believed white-settlers must have built the structures. It wasn't until 1929 that archaeologist Gertrude Caton-Thompson categorically proved that Great Zimbabwe was built by black-Africans. Nowadays, various tribes in the region claim that Great Zimbabwe was built by their ancestors. Archaeologists generally agree that the Lemba tribe is most likely responsible.
Why Rhodesia was renamed Zimbabwe:
Despite the facts, colonial administrations as late as the 1970's still denied that black Africans were the creators of this once great city. This is why Great Zimbabwe became an important symbol, especially to those fighting the colonial regime during the 1960's through to independence in 1980. Great Zimbabwe symbolized what black Africans were capable of despite denials by white men in power at the time. Once power was rightfully transferred to the majority, Rhodesia was named Zimbabwe. The name "Zimbabwe" was most likely derived from the Shona language; dzimba dza mabwe means "house of stone".
Great Zimbabwe Ruins Today:
Visiting the Great Zimbabwe ruins was a highlight of my trip to that country, and they should not be missed. The skill with which the stones were laid is impressive given the lack of mortar. The Great Enclosure is quite something, with walls as high as 36 feet extending approximately 820 feet. You need a full day to explore the 3 main areas that are of interest, the Hill Complex (which also offers wonderful views), the Great Enclosure and the museum. The museum holds many of the artifacts found among the ruins including pottery from China.
2008.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
As Dr. Winters noted you can't make someone see facts they don't want to acknowledge. So the Tin Man isn't going to change his tune and will try to sweep everything posted away with a single sentence or two dare he return to this thread.
Nonetheless, for piercing examiners, both prongs of his lie have been blunted and Kenndo especially did so regarding modern Africa.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: 1 - When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts.
2 - And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: As Dr. Winters noted you can't make someone see facts they don't want to acknowledge. So the Tin Man isn't going to change his tune and will try to sweep everything posted away with a single sentence or two dare he return to this thread.
Nonetheless, for piercing examiners, both prongs of his lie have been blunted and Kenndo especially did so regarding modern Africa.
Thank you.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Assforrides, where art thou?? Come finish what you started! Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
The time hs come again to slaughter some dumb white centric asses. As usually, I may add!
This is one of the many sites in West Africa that was contemporary with pre-dynastic, archaic, and Old Kingdom Egypt. Here's an extract from an otherwise unavailable for free article by one of the subject's main scholars covering Tichitt's last phases.
Visiting the Mauritanian region of Al Hawd, we find important prehistoric remains pre-dating the Soninke domination of the region. This is known as the Dhar Tichitt-Walata culture, a unique neolithic culture dating from between BC 2000 and the third century BC. No less than 400 settlements, some of them complete cities, made up this group of towns.
On entering Walata for the first time, we are struck by a magical image of its beautifully adorned red adobe houses. It is a real experience to discover the hard, dry touch of its buildings mixed with the colours and the silence of the surrounding desert.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania,(ca. 4000–2300 BP)
Augustin F.C. Holla, aMuseum of Anthropology, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109, United States Received 21 April 2008; accepted 8 April 2009. Available online 25 June 2009.
Abstract
The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
Jenne-jeno, an ancient African city
Susan Keech McIntosh and Roderick J. McIntosh
Roderick and Susan McIntosh excavated at Jenne-jeno and neighboring sites in 1977 and 1981 and returned in 1994 for coring and more survey, with funding from the National Science Foundation of the United States, the American Association of University Women, and the National Geographic Society (1994). This research formed the basis of their Ph.D. dissertations at Cambridge University and the University of California at Santa Barbara, respectively. The McIntoshes have published two monographs and numerous articles on their archaeological research in the Middle Niger. They are professors of anthropology at Rice University in Houston, Texas, and they continue to collaborate with Malian colleagues from the Institut des Sciences Humaines on research along the Middle Niger.
For centuries, the upper Inland Niger Delta of the Middle Niger between modern Mopti and Segou has been a vital crossroads for trade. Historical sources, such as the 1828 account of the French explorer Rene Caillié, as well as local Tarikhs (histories written in Arabic) detail for us the central role that Jenne played in the commercial activities of the Western Sudan during the last 500 years. The seventeenth century author of the Tarikh es-Sudan, al-Sadi, wrote that "it is because of this blessed town that camel caravans come to Timbuktu from all points of the horizon". In the famous "Golden Trade of the Moors", gold from mines far to the south was transported overland to Jenne, then trans-shipped on broad-bottom canoes (pirogues) to Timbuktu, and thence by camel to markets in North Africa and Europe. Leo Africanus reported in 1512 that the extensive boat trade on the Middle Niger involved massive amounts of cereals and dried fish shipped from Jenne to provision arid Timbuktu. Today, the stunning mud architecture of Jenne in distinctive Sudanic style is a legacy of its early trade ties with North Africa. Three kilometers to the southeast, the large mound called Jenne-jeno (ancient Jenne) or Djoboro (Pl. 1) is claimed by oral traditions as the original settlement of Jenne. Barren and carpeted by a thick layer of broken pottery, Jenne-jeno lay mute for decades, its history and significance totally unknown. Scientific excavations in the 1970's and 1980's revealed that the mound is composed of over five meters of debris accumulated during sixteen centuries of occupation that began c. 200 B.C.E. These excavations, in addition to more than doubling the period of known history for this region, provided some surprises regarding the local development of society. The results indicated that earlier assumptions about the emergence of complex social organization in urban settlements and the development of long-distance trade as innovations appearing only after the arrival of the Arabs in North Africa in the seventh and eighth centuries were incorrect. The archaeology of Jenne- jeno and the surrounding area clearly showed an early, indigenous growth of trade and social complexity. The importance of this discovery has resulted in the entry of Jenne- jeno, along with Jenne, on the list of UNESCO World Heritage sites.
The early settlement at Jenne-jeno.
It appears that permanent settlement first became possible in the upper Inland Niger Delta in about the third century B.C.E. Prior to that time, the flood regime of the Niger was apparently much more active, meaning that the annual floodwaters rose higher and perhaps stayed longer than they do today, such that there was no high land that regularly escaped inundation. Under these wetter circumstances, diseases carried by insects, especially tsetse fly, would have discouraged occupation. Between 200 B.C.E. and 100 C.E., the Sahel experienced significant dry episodes, that were part of the general drying trend seriously underway since 1000 B.C.E. Prior to that time, significant numbers of herders and farmers lived in what is today the southern Sahara desert, where they raised cattle, sheep and goat, grew millet, hunted, and fished in an environment of shallow lakes and grassy plains. As the environment became markedly drier after 1000 B.C.E., these populations moved southward with their stock in search of more reliable water sources. Oral traditions of groups from the Serer and Wolof of Senegal to the Soninke of Mali trace their origins back to regions of southern Mauritania that are now desert. As these stone-tool-using populations slowly moved along southward-draining river systems, they found various more congenial environments. One of these was the great interior floodplain of the Middle Niger, with its rich alluvial soil and a flood regime that was well-suited to the cultivation of rice. The earliest deposits, nearly six meters deep at Jenne- jeno (Pl. 2) have yielded the hulls of domesticated rice, sorghum, millet, and various wild swamp grasses. The population that settled at Jenne-jeno used and worked iron, fashioning the metal into both jewelry and tools. This is interesting , since there are no sources of iron ore in the floodplain. The earliest inhabitants of Jenne-jeno were already trading with areas outside the region. They also imported stone grinders and beads. The presence of two Roman or Hellenistic beads in the early levels suggests that a few very small trade goods were reaching West Africa, probably after changing hands through many intermediaries. We have not detected any evidence of influences from the Mediterranean world on the local societies at this time.
The original settlement appears to have occurred on a small patch of relatively high ground, and was probably restricted to a few circular huts of straw coated with mud daub. We find many pieces of burnt daub with mat impressions on them in the earliest levels. The pottery associated with this early material is from small, finely-made vessels with thin walls. Artifacts and housing material of this kind persist until c. 450 C.E., occurring over progressive larger area of Jenne-jeno. This indicates that the site was growing larger. In fact, by 450 C.E., the settlement had expanded to at least 25 hectares (over 60 acres).
Jenne-jeno's floruit: 450-1100 C.E.
In the deposits dated from the fifth century, there are definite indications that the organization of society is changing. We find organized cemeteries, with interments in large burial urns (Pl. 3) as well as inhumations outside of urns in simple pits, on the edge of the settlement. From an excavation unit on the western edge of Jenne-jeno, we found evidence that the site was enlarged by quarrying clay from the floodplain and mounding it at the edge of the site New trade items appear, such as copper, imported from sources a minimum of several hundred kilometers away, and gold from even more distance mines. A smithy was installed near one of our central excavation units around 800 C.E. to mold copper and bronze into ornaments, and to forge iron. Smithing continued in this locale for the next 600 years, suggesting that craftsmen had become organized in castes and operated in specific locales, much as we see in Jenne today.
The round houses at Jenne-jeno were constructed with tauf, or puddled mud, foundations, from the fifth to the ninth century. During this time, the settlement continued to grow, reaching its maximum area of 33 hectares by 850 C.E. We know that this is so because sherds of the distinctive painted pottery that was produced at Jenne-jeno only between 450-850 C.E. are present in all our excavation units, even those near the edge of the mound. And we find them at the neighboring mound of Hambarketolo, too, suggesting that these two connected sites totaling 41 hectares (100 acres) functioned as part of a single town complex (Pl. 4) . In the ninth century, two noticeable changes occur (Pl. 5) : tauf house foundations are replaced by cylindrical brick architecture, and painted pottery is replaced by pottery with impressed and stamped decoration. The source of these novelties is unknown, although we can say that they did not involve any fundamental shift in the form or general layout of either houses or pottery. So it is unlikely that any major change in the ethnic composition of Jenne-jeno was associated with the changes. Change with continuity was the prevailing pattern. One of the earliest structures built using the new cylindrical brick technology (Pl. 6) was apparently the city wall, which was 3.7 meters wide at its base and ran almost two kilometers around the town. All these indications of increasingly complex social organization are particularly important in helping us understand the indigenous context of the Empire of Ghana, an influential confederation that consolidated power within large areas to the north and west of the Inland Niger Delta sometime after 500 C.E.. To date, Jenne-jeno provides our only insight into the nature of change and complexity in the Sahel prior to the establishment of the trans-Saharan trade. Although some excavations have been conducted at the presumed capital of Ghana, Kumbi Saleh (in southeastern Mauritania), these focused on the stone-built ruins dating to the period of the trans-Saharan trade. As we currently understand the archaeology of the entire Jenne region, where over 60 archaeological sites rise from the floodplain within a 4 kilometer radius of the modern town (Pl. 7) , many of these sites were occupied at the time of Jenne-jeno's floruit between 800-1000 C.E.. We have suggested that this extraordinary settlement clustering resulted from a clumping of population around a rare conjunction of highly desirable features (Pl. 8) : excellent rice-growing soils, levees for pasture in the flood season, deep basin for pasture in the dry season and access to both major river channels and the entire inland system of secondary and tertiary marigots from communication and trade.
Decline: C.E. 1200-1400
In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, the first unambiguous evidence of North African or Islamic influences appears at Jenne-jeno in the form of brass, spindle whorls, and rectilinear houses. This occurs within a century of the traditional date of 1180 C.E. for the conversion of Jenne's king (Koi) Konboro to Islam, according to the Tarikh es-Sudan. After this point, Jenne-jeno begins a 200-year long period of decline and gradual abandonment, before it becomes a ghost town by 1400. We can speculate that Jenne-jeno declined at the expense of Jenne, perhaps related to the ascendancy of the new religion, Islam, over traditional practice. The continued practice of urn burial at Jenne-jeno through the fourteenth century tells us that many of the site's occupants did not convert to Islam. The production of terracotta statuettes in great numbers throughout the period and even into the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries elsewhere in the Inland Niger Delta may mark loci of resistance, within the context of traditional religious practice, to Islam or the leaders who practiced it. Whatever the cause of Jenne-jeno's abandonment, it was part of a larger process whereby most of the settlements occupied around Jenne in 1000 C.E. lay deserted by 1400. What caused such a realignment of the local population? Again, we can only speculate. Some people likely converted to Islam and moved to Jenne, where wealth and commercial opportunities were increasingly concentrated. But there is also the fact that the climate grew increasingly dry from 1200 C.E., causing tremendous political upheavals further north, and prompting virtual abandonment of whole regions (e.g., the Mema, studied by Malian archaeologist Tereba Togola) that could no longer sustain herds and agriculture. Some, if not all, of these factors were probably implicated in the decline of Jenne-jeno.
Jenne-jeno is easy to reach from Jenne, and its surface traces of ancient houses and pottery are evocative of its rich history. Peering into the deep erosion gullies that scar the surface, one literally looks backward in time over 1000 years.
Rice News: The Pillaging of Ancient Africa
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
SETTLEMENT ARCHAEOLOGY IN NIGERIA: A SHORT NOTE
Oluwole Ogundele Department of Archaeology and Anthropology, University of Ibadan, Nigeria
INTRODUCTION The history of scientific archaeological research in Nigeria, is a relatively recent development. This dates back to the 1940's when a rock-shelter named "Rop" was investigated, in addition to the limited excavations embarked upon by Bernard Fagg, in the Nok Valley area of Central Nigeria. Similarly, rescue excavations were carried out in Igbo-Ukwu located in the eastern part of the country by Thurstan Shaw and his team in the latter part of the 1950's. Since then, several archaeological efforts have been made in few locations such as Ile-Ife, Old-Oyo, Benin and Daima all situated in the western and northern parts of Nigeria respectively.
In all these archaeological excavations, the objectives were mainly to retrieve artifacts and describe them with a view to reconstructing the cultural history of the region in question. Archaeological researches during this period, were basically artifact-oriented, and not unexpectedly, classifications based on stratigraphic evidence, occupied a central position in the scheme of things. This research orientation is with a view to gaining some insights about sequences of events and chronologies. It is important to note that apart from the fact that these archaeological works were scattered (i.e. few and far between), there were no well formulated strategies and/or research designs aimed at clarifying our understanding of the spatial dimension of the culture(s) being studied, both at the intra- and inter-site levels. Indeed, lateral-oriented activities involving mapping and excavations were not considered vital to the operationalization of research works until in the 1980's. Some of the concomitant effects of this development are as follows:
1. Artifacts retrieved from excavations appear to remain isolated, without any significant connections between them and a given geographical configuration, thus making it impossible to recreate the extent to which a people had exploited the resources within their environment. 2. Establishment of the nature and pattern(s) of inter-group relations among the peoples in different parts of the country in prehistoric and proto-historic or historic periods remains a far cry.
PROBLEMS AND PERSPECTIVES Since the archaeologist is concerned with the reconstruction of palaeo-cultures, space or environment is one of the indispensable variables (Ogundele 1989; 1990; 1994). However, in having an over-view of the works of pioneers of archaeology in Nigeria and to some extent the present crop of experts in the field, efforts should be made to take into consideration several problems that faced them or are still facing some of them. Given this situation, my assessonent of their works is done here with great respect and caution. Indeed one major objective of this piece of work, is to attempts to promote a new appreciation of available or potential archaeological data especially settlement finds and features, with a view to broadening our horizon of archaeological scholarship in Nigeria and West Africa as a whole.
Until very recently, all the archaeologists working in Nigeria were mainly Europeans and they did not often stay long enough to embark upon systematic and long-term archaeological surveys. In other words, Nigerian archaeologists are still disappointingly few and largely as a result, some systematic archaeological investigations of the entire country is still a far cry. Closely related to the problem listed above, is the fact that Nigeria is a vast country, too large for a handful of archaeologists to manage. In addition, the geographical character of the region is extremely complex. Thus for example, the major vegetational zones (especially the thick forests and swamps in the south, and the very desert area to the north), constitute in themselves, distinct obstacles to archaeological field-work.
Another major difficulty has to do with the fact that Nigeria is situated in the humid tropics and as with other humid tropical regions, the soils are acidic and erosion is generally very pronounced. These have adversely affected the preservation of archaeological remains especially fragile items like bones and wooden objects of great time-depth. However, there are still some depositional cases such as deltaic conditions, rock-shelters and caves, where archaeological materials are relatively better preserved. Overall however, the archaeologist working in Nigeria is left with just the imperishables such as stone tools and potsherds and little else in the way of human occupation to analyze, reconstruct and interpret.
The lack and in places paucity of data has tended to encourage unrestrained speculation which in fact largely accounts for some insupportable hypotheses being put forward by many early or pioneer archaeologists, concerning the nature of culture change in Nigeria. One of such hypotheses was that the peopling of the forest region (southern Nigeria and indeed, all of the Guinea zone of West Africa) was a much later development than that of the northern open savanna area. Recent archaeological research has shown that people were already living in south-western Nigeria (specifically Iwo-Eleru) as early as 9000 BC and perhaps earlier at Ugwuelle-Uturu (Okigwe) in south-eastern Nigeria (Shaw and Daniels 1984: 7-100).
Lack of adequate funding and dating facilities has also caused a lag in archaeological research in Nigeria and indeed, all of West Africa. Many sites threatened by construction work such as bridges, roads, houses and dams are not normally rescued because there are no sources of funding. The governments of West African countries have not been supportive enough of archaeological work, partly because both the leaders and the peoples do not recognize the role a sound knowledge of the past can play in nation-building.
There is up to now, no well-equipped dating laboratory either to process charcoal samples or potsherds. The only laboratory in West Africa is in Senegal and it is far from being well equipped. Consequently, it is restricted mostly to processing charcoal samples collected from sites in Senegal. Given this problem, samples collected from archaeological excavations have to be sent abroad for processing. This delays the rate at which archaeological information is put into its proper time perspective.
It seems also that a great deal more time and attention are paid to the later phases of human settlement history than the earlier. Consequently, much more is known of iron age and historic settlements in Nigeria and West Africa as a whole. Some considerable amount of work has been done for these phases in Benin City in Nigeria, Niani in Niger Republic and Jenne-Jeno in Mali, among other places in West Africa. One reason for this interest in the later phase seems to rest in the fact that there is a meeting point between historic settlement archaeology and oral traditions in the region generally and the fact that people can identify much more easily with this phase because it is more recent and by this fact closer to our times.
It is pertinent to note that there is no settlement archaeology tradition(s) in Nigeria up to the early 1980's. Even at places like Ife, Old-Oyo, Benin and Zaria where some relatively limited archaeological work has been carried out, efforts were mainly concentrated on walls (Soper 1981: 61-81; Darling 1984: 498-504; Leggett 1969: 27). In Southern Nigeria, proto-historic settlements were generally composed of mud or sun-dried brick houses. Most if not all these house structures and defensive and/or demarcatory walls have either been destroyed or obliterated by erosion. The tradition(s) of constructing houses with stones in the pre colonial past was well reflected in many parts of Northern Nigeria. In fact, many hill-top settlements in this area of Nigeria were composed of stone houses - a direct response among other things, to opportunities offered by the immediate environment (Netting 1968: 18-28; Denyer 1978: 41-47). Despite the nature of the soil chemistry (acidic soil) stone buildings are still better preserved than mud houses.
Relics of ancient settlements are much fewer in the south than in the north, because of the different building materials as well as techniques of construction which are partly determined by diverse historical experiences among other things. Hill-tops and slopes offer abundant boulders which could be dressed for construction, while in the plains, it is much easier to obtain mud for building houses. For example, the dispersed mode of settlement of the present-day Tiv as opposed to the nucleated rural settlements on the hill-tops and slopes in ancient times, coupled with their shifting agricultural system, as well as the factor of refarming and/or resettlement of former sites by some daughter groups which hived off, from the original stock, make most ancient settlements and recently abandoned sites (made up of sun-dried brick houses) difficult to discover at least in a fairly well preserved state (Sokpo and Mbakighir 1990, Personal Communication).
This preservation problem among others further make the task of establishing stratigraphic sequences a little bit difficult. Nigeria is divisible into zones on the basis of techniques of construction as follows: 1. Mud construction techniques which are very common in most parts of southern Nigeria. 2. Stone construction techniques which are very common in most parts of Northern Nigeria; and 3. Combination of mud and stone construction techniques. This development is common in Tivland, where the ancient houses and protective walls on hill-tops were constructed of stones, while present-day houses in the plains are usually constructed of mud. Given our experiences in Nigeria, the third category of construction is very useful for generating models. These are models derivable from oral traditional data and ethnographic resources. Such models, if carefully applied to archaeological situations, can greatly fill the gaps in our knowledge of the past of the Nigerian peoples.
CONCLUSION Scientific studies of settlement archaeology of the different parts of Nigeria are be-devilled by a lot of problems ranging in nature from inadequate facilities to fewness of archaeologists on ground. Developments in recent years have however shown that these problems are now being turned into a source of strength by the indigenous archaeologists. Thus for example abundant oral traditional and ethnographic resources in Nigeria are being profitably harnessed. This is with a few to clarifying our understanding of aspects of the people's settlement heritage.
REFERENCES Darling, P. 1984. Archaeology & History In Southern Nigeria: The ancient Linear Earthworks of Benin and Ishan. B. A. R. Series 215. Denyer, S 1978. African traditional architecture. Heinemann, Ibadan. Leggett, H. J. 1969 Former Hill and Inselberg Settlements In the Zaria District. West African Archaeology News-letter. No.11. Mbakighir, N. 1990. Personal Communication. Netting, R. M. 1968. Hill Farmers of Nigeria: Cultural Ecology of the Kofyar of The Jos Plateau, University of Washington, Press Seattle. Ogundele, S. O. 1989. Settlement Archaeology In Tivland: A Preliminary Report. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol. 19. Ogundele, S.O. 1990. The Use of Ethno-archaeology In Tiv Culture History. African Notes. Vol. 14. Ogundele, S.O. 1994. Notes On Ungwai Settlement Archaeology. Journal of Science Research. Vol. 1. Shaw, T.& Daniells, S. G. H. 1984. Excavations At Iwo-Eleru, Ondo State, Nigeria. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol.14. Soper, R. 1981. The Walls of Oyo Ile. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol. 10/11. Sokpo, A. 1990. Personal Communication.
[Note] This is a report sent with a letter of 18th December 1995 from Dr. Ogundele. This report shows the situation of archaeological activities in Nigeria. Appropriate support to the Nigerian archaeologists would inprove the difficult situation.
Department of Archaeology, Okayama University NIIRO Izumi 20th Feb. 1996
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
The funny part is that the common man in Egypt also had mud houses built in similar construction.
Plus when Europeans first ventured through the region they found that in many ways West Africans were more civilized. Timbuktu had several Universities with over 25 thousands students, whereas most of Europe, especially West Europe was illiterate. North Europeans were mainly hunter gatherers.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
Built Heritage
Architectural monuments in Africa have long been neglected, not only in the discussions about preservation but also physically. The last few decades however, starting from the sixties and seventies, the architectural treasures of this continent have more and more attracted western architects and researchers. At the Faculty of Architecture at the Delft University of Technology it was especially the Forum movement, with architects such as Aldo van Eyck and Herman Haan, which inspired many students and gave the debate about African Architecture an extra whim.
Nowadays, most of the monumental built environment in Africa has been recognized as such. The importance of the recognition, validation and preservation of cultural heritage knows however many difficulties. Especially in a country like Mali, known for its rich cultural past and present, the diversity of attentions fields (archaeology, anthropology, architecture, music) creates a huge problem in how to make choices, how to create sustainable structures etc. The methods of labelling cultural heritage generate their own dynamics and problems.
The most prestigious label is of course the World Heritage List of UNESCO. The preservation of a World Monument however is not so easy as it seems and one can often wander if this labelling actually provides a sustainable framework for conservation. The impact of this label on the local cultural perspective of the monument often exceeds the original, traditional perception of the building structures as a living part of everyday society.
International conservation rules (for instance Charter of Venice) provide a fairly workable set of operational tools in regard to a conservation project. However, the local building traditions, the traditional way of modifying and using houses and the impact of modern western society often are in conflict with these international standards.
Therefore, restoration and conservation of a modern historic city has to be seen in the framework of the development of the historical structures, the impact of western society and possible future growth. New city developments, electricity, sewerage systems, motorized transports, car parking, plastic pollution; these are just e few of the ingredients of the conflict between modern life and historical city structures. A new approach has to be defined, to reconsider the system of monumental labelling and its instruments to conserve and preserve.
Djenné, a well known UNESCO World Monument, is a city which faces all of these problems. The case of its restoration can be used in the research for new restoration concepts and tools. Satellite cases such as Asmara and Zanzibar can be helpful to redefining international standards.
If you're going to lift somebody else's phraseology and spread it all over the net the least you could do is credit them or failing that try rephrase it in your own words.
quote:Not originally posted by Ish Gebor: This is one of the many sites in West Africa that was contemporary with pre-dynastic, archaic, and Old Kingdom Egypt. Here's an extract from an otherwise unavailable for free article by one of the subject's main scholars covering Tichitt's last phases.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
The Neolithic at Ounjougou is represented by three broad and distinct phases of settlement, marked by significant techno-economic and cultural changes.
Between 9,500 and 7,000 BC, the Early Neolithic saw the precocious emergence of pottery, which appeared at the same time as the development of a strategies for selective and intensive foraging for grains in a landscape of vast grassy plains. The Middle Neolithic is particularly known for a technological aspect – the specialized production of bifacial points on quartzitic sandstone, dated between the 6th and 4th millennia BC.
The Late Neolithic is associated with pronounced cultural and economic changes, with the influence around 2,500 BC of populations arriving from the Sahara, followed by the arrival after 1,800 BC of the first millet cultivators in the region (see the article "The Late Neolithic").
Archeology, Pre-Dogon & Dogon
Excavations at Songona 2. Photo A. Mayor
The phase of pre-Dogon settlement began close to the beginning of the Common Era, several centuries after the end of the Late Neolithic. The populations used objects made of iron and, probably in the second half of the 1st mill. AD, began to master its production. As a whole, the technological and stylistic characteristics of pottery at pre-Dogon sites dated between the 2nd and the 13th centuries is clearly differentiated from that of the Late Neolithic. Such differences include the appearance of new décors made by several kinds of rollers and by woven impressions. This new cultural context places the Dogon Country at the intersection of three different ethnolinguistic spheres – Mande, Gur and Soghay -, for which the influences vary according to region and period.
Oral sources place Dogon settlement in an interval between the 13th and 15th centuries. Within this same period, archaeological research has demonstrated a new cultural break, evidence by the important amount of pottery made by pounding the clay on a baobab mat, typical of one of the five modern ceramic traditions (tradition A, associated with farming women). Oral traditions reveal a very complex history of Dogon settlement, due to frequent relocations of villages associated with a history of climatic and political instability: discovery of water spots, drying of rivers, famines, and land conflicts, but also withdrawal after raids by the neighboring Peul, Bambara and Mossi.
Paleometallurgy
Fieldwork at the Fiko reduction site in 2005. Photo C. Robion-Brunner
Beginning in 2002, a paleometallurgy axis was added with the aim of studying the development of siderurgy in the Dogon Country, from its origins to modern day. One of the principal objectives is to determine the moment when the structure and capacity of production of the industry allowed the widespread use of farming tools and weapons made of iron. Such use of iron corresponds to a change in the technological system within society, with significant effects on its structure and on the environment in the broad sense.
To meet this goal, a multidisciplinary approach was developed. The ethnographic approach aimed at collecting oral traditions related to siderurgy. As a result of a memory still quite alive, much information was recovered concerning the last two or three centuries. These surveys informed on historical, social and economic aspects that would be impossible to demonstrate solely by the study of the material record. They also give access to the spiritual and symbolic world in which production and ironworking were integrated. Finally, practical knowledge of modern craftspeople helped to understand and reconstruct the actions of the earlier groups.
At the same time, the archaeological approach aimed to inventory, describe and understand the material evidence of siderurgy: ancient pits from iron mines, furnaces that allowed iron extraction and forges where objects were made. These sites were systematically located across the landscape, visited and documented by descriptions, photographs and topographic designs. Characteristic sites were selected and studied in greater detail with test pits or larger excavations carried out. This work made it possible to discover furnaces and study their functioning, as well as to collect charcoal samples that could be dated by 14C and slag that could be analyzed in the laboratory to clarify technical aspects, the different modes of production and their development. The construction of a detailed topographic map was done in the aim of demonstrating the spatial organization and to estimate the quantity of debris and thus the level of production. Anthracological analysis additionally yielded important data on the vegetal cover and the model of exploitation of wood resources.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: If you're going to lift somebody else's phraseology and spread it all over the net the least you could do is credit them or failing that try rephrase it in your own words.
quote:Not originally posted by Ish Gebor: This is one of the many sites in West Africa that was contemporary with pre-dynastic, archaic, and Old Kingdom Egypt. Here's an extract from an otherwise unavailable for free article by one of the subject's main scholars covering Tichitt's last phases.
I was under the impresion that it was part of the original source, in that case I rectify.
Posted by abdi (Member # 18622) on :
what do u mean sub sahara didnt had civilisation, i dont know much on this but didnt MALI had some famouse mosque, and GHANA had some kingdom that controlled massive region!...well, i know habasha land had great civilastion which is modern day djibouti,somali,eritrea and ethiopia, cant speak for other african region,but surely GHANA WAS something occording to western books!!
Posted by abdi (Member # 18622) on :
you cant judge cicilisation on building,not every one used pyramids, somalia dont have pyramids but we are the most proud ancient nation that never bowed to outsider,...so many poetry in that land and so many brave men...well all i know is white men never rested when they come to ancient somalia or ardul habasha before islam.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I thought these people were all slaves?
I mean how could these people accomplish all of that and lose hundreds of millions of people over 4, 5, 6 centuries to the rest of the world by the "slaaaaaaaave traaaaaaaaade".
This doesn't make sense. Losing that many people would certainly negatively affect a population's ability to achieve. The mentality that one would have to posess in order to casually disregard the losses of his/her own people would certainly be a detriment to any kind of achievement.
Just think in terms today with various cities, states, and nations trying to curtail brain drain.
Either you guys are lying and making up these achievements of the so called subsaharans or west Europeans are lying about subsaharans being 1. the world's exclusive supply of slaves and 2. the millions, upon millions, upon millions that were supposedly enslaved.
Which one of you are perpetuating the lies?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: I thought these people were all slaves?
I mean how could these people accomplish all of that and lose hundreds of millions of people over 4, 5, 6 centuries to the rest of the world by the "slaaaaaaaave traaaaaaaaade".
This doesn't make sense. Losing that many people would certainly negatively affect a population's ability to achieve. The mentality that one would have to posess in order to casually disregard the losses of his/her own people would certainly be a detriment to any kind of achievement.
Just think in terms today with various cities, states, and nations trying to curtail brain drain.
Either you guys are lying and making up these achievements of the so called subsaharans or west Europeans are lying about subsaharans being 1. the world's exclusive supply of slaves and 2. the millions, upon millions, upon millions that were supposedly enslaved.
Which one of you are perpetuating the lies?
It appears you lack common sense!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Mali History
Sarakole and Mandika people. These merchants and the tribesmen were the first settlers of Timbuktu.
The first constructions in Timbuktu were designed by African architects from Djenne and later on, by Muslim architects from North Africa. It was at this time that the King of Sosso invaded the empire of Ghana, thus causing the exodus of the scholars of Walata to Timbuktu.
By the 12th century, Timbuktu became a celebrated center of Islamic learning and a commercial establishment. Timbuktu had three universities and 180 Qur’anic schools. These universities were the Sankore University, Jingaray Ber University and Sidi Yahya University. This was the golden age of Africa. Books were not only written in Timbuktu, but they were also imported and copied there, in an advanced local book copying industry in the city. The universities and private libraries contained unparalleled scholarly works. The famous scholar Ahmad Baba who was among those forcibly exiled in Morocco claimed that his library of 1600 books had been plundered, and that his library, according to him, was one of the smaller in the city.
The booming economy of Timbuktu attracted the attention of the Emperor of Mali, Mansa Mussa (1307-1332) also known as “Kan Kan Mussa.” He captured the city in 1325. As a Muslim, Mansa Mussa was impressed with the Islamic legacy of Timbuktu. On his return from Mecca, Mansa Mussa brought with him an Egyptian architect by the name of Abu Es Haq Es Saheli. The architect was paid 200kg of gold to built Jingaray Ber or, the Friday Prayers Mosque. Mansa Musa also built a royal palace (or Madugu) in Timbuktu, another mosque in Djenné and a great mosque in Gao (1324-1325). Today only the foundation of the mosque built in Gao exists. That is why there is an urgent need to restore and protect the mosques that remain in Djenné and Timbuktu..
The Emperor also brought Arabs scholars to Timbuktu. To his great surprise, the Emperor found these scholars to be under-qualified compared to the Black scholars of Timbuktu. Abd Arahman Atimmi had such a low level, that he was obliged to migrate to Marrakech to complete his prerequisites so he could sit in classes as a student.
Mansa Mussa's pilgrimage to Mecca in 1324 had made Mali known worldwide. The great ruler took 60,000 porters with him. Each porter carried 3 kilograms of pure gold, that is, 180,000 kilograms or at least 180 tons of gold (Reference: Volume IV UNESCO General History of Africa, pages 197-200). He had so much gold with him that when he stopped in Egypt, the Egyptian currency lost its value and as result, the name of Mali and Timbuktu appeared on the 14th century world map.
A relative, Abu Bakar the II, decided to find a way by sea to go to Mecca. Abu Bakar II is said to be Mansa Musa’s uncle. In 1324 while visiting Cairo, Mansa Musa reported how he became the King of Mali. He explained that he became King of Mali, his predecessor, Abu Bakar II (who belonged to the senior branch of the ruling family), decided to sail to discover what lies behind the ocean, he had never come back .What Mansa Musa (who belongs to the Junior branch of the ruling family) said, then, was recorded by Ibn Amir Adjib, Governor of Cairo and Karafa. Abu Bakar and his maritime expedition left the shores of Senegal and sailed in the Atlantic Ocean. They encountered so much difficulty and challenge, they came back to Senegal. Abu Bakar reorganized his expedition, took enough provisions and a huge army with him. This expedition was never seen again. Today, there is strong historical evidence pointing to the possibility that this Malian prince was the first one to discover America. In Brazil for instance, there is a presence of Mandinka language, traditions and customs.
In 1339, the Mossi king invaded Timbuktu. The Mossi caused corruption, killing and destruction in the city. The Mandika dynasty, however, succeeded in repulsing the invaders. Timbuktu remained under the protection of the descendants of Mansa Musa until 1434 when the Tuareg, under the leadership of Akil Akamalwal, invaded and captured the city. Akil was very pious. He respected the Ulemas or scholars. Akil reappointed Mohammed Naddi, a Sanhaja Tuareg as the governor of the city. When Mohammed Naddi died, Akil appointed his oldest son Umar to take his place. The Tuareg, later on however, spread so much injustice, corruption and tyranny, that Umar ibn Mohammed Naddi, the new governor of Timbuktu sought the help of Soni Ali Ber, ruler of the Songhai Empire.
In 1464, Soni Ali Ber conquered the city of Timbuktu. He came to Timbuktu as Emperor from Sokoto, in present-day Nigeria. His mother, Baraka, was from this area. Akil fled the city. Sonni Ali Ber knew he had to unite his Empire which was composed of Islamic people and those who kept their traditional African beliefs. He went so far that he took a Muslim name himself, in his attempt to placate Africans who had become followers of Islam. However, he resisted letting Islam or any other religion destroy traditional religions of Africa. That is what brought him into conflict with Muslim scholars. As Dr. Molefi Asante has written:
“One reason that Sonni Ali Ber had a peace keeping strategy, was that he wanted to reestablish the presence of African culture in religion, education, and traditions throughout the empire. He was a reformer. He cleaned out the religious leaders in the institutions of learning and replaced them with intellectuals who understood the African traditions of the people.”( Asante, Classical Africa, page 126)
As a result of this policy, many of the scholars fled to Walata which is the actual Mauritania. This is the reason why many of the manuscripts of Timbuktu are found in Mauritania. One of the generals of Soni Ali, who is a devout Muslim by the name of Askia Mohammed, could not tolerate the tragic treatment Soni inflicted on the Ulemas or scholars of Timbuktu.
Sonni Ali Ber was a planner, a fearless conqueror and he is cited in all the Tarikhs as the only Emperor who reigned 28 years, waged 32 wars, won 32 victories and was always the conqueror, never conquered. He developed the army administration, agriculture and irrigation techniques and tax controls. He died in 1492 when America was about to be discovered. His son Sonni Baro replaced him. Askia Mohammed, who was Sonni Ali Ber’s General, could no longer support the loose manner by which Sonni Baro handled the affairs of the State. So, he overthrew him and took the power in 1493.
Askia Mohammed comforted the scholars, financially rehabilitated them and stood by them. In fact for all Islamic legal rulings on how to run the state, Askia Mohammed consulted the scholars. There are manuscripts in Timbuktu today where the answers to the questions of Askia are recorded. Under the Askia dynasty, Timbuktu prospered both intellectually and trade-wise until 1591 when the Moroccan army under the leadership of Pasha Mahmud ibn Zarqun sacked the city of Timbuktu. The Moroccan army plundered the wealth of the city, burned the libraries, put to death many scholars who resisted them and deported many to Fes and Marrakech including the eminent scholar of Timbuktu, Ahmed Baba es Sudane meaning "Ahmed Baba, the black" as he preferred to be called.
The scholars of Timbuktu were righteous, devout and were not afraid of anything except GOD. It was in this context that when Pasha Mahmud tried to deceive the scholars by signing a treacherous treaty, the Black eminent scholar and professor of Sidi Yahya University Mohammed Bagayogo objected and told the Pasha: " I would rather have you cut my hand up to the shoulder than to bear a false testimony." Hundreds of manuscripts left the city of Timbuktu under the Moroccan invasion to find their way to Fes and Marrakech.
In 1893, with the colonization of West Africa by France, Timbuktu was brought under the French rule until Mali received her independence in 1960. To this day, many manuscripts originating from Timbuktu can be found in French museums and universities.
The University was organized around three great Masajid or Mosques:
Jingaray Ber Sidi Yahya Sankore
Masajid (plural for mosque) are places of worship for Muslims. Not only did students seek knowledge, but they purified their souls through the sciences of Islam. Islam breeds leaders that are God fearing, just, honest, trustworthy and of excellent moral character. Graduate students were the embodiment of the teachings of the Holy Qur'an and the traditions of the Mohammed, the Prophet of Islam.
Around the 12th century, the University of Timbuktu had an attendance of 25, 000 students in a city which had a population of 100, 000 people. The students came from all corners of the African continent in search of excellence in knowledge and trade. On graduation day, students were given Turbans. The turban symbolizes Divine light, wisdom, knowledge, excellent moral conduct and represents the demarcation line between knowledge and ignorance. The knots and circles of the turban represent the name Allah. This means that the graduate students know the Divine obligations and responsibilities to be discharged honorably in their communities and toward their fellow men.
The University curriculum had four degrees or levels:
1. The primary degree
At this level the students memorized the Holy Qur'an, perfected their mastery of Arabic and learned to communicate and write effectively. The students were also introduced to the basics in other sciences. This level is also called Qur'anic school.
2. The secondary degree
Now the students have committed the Holy Qur'an to memory. This is very important because all the Islamic sciences are rooted and derived from the Qur'an which constitutes the source of authenticity and authority. Any teachings or narrations that are not supported by the verses of the Qur'an are rejected and constitute an innovation. This level may be called the General Studies level. Here the students are introduced to the different branches of Islamic knowledge. These Islamic sciences are: grammar, commentaries of the Qur'an, the Hadith or the Prophetic narrations, jurisprudence, mathematics, geography, history, Islamic schools of thoughts, physics, astronomy, chemistry, sciences of the purification of the heart and soul, etc. The students also spend time in learning a trade and the Islamic business code and ethics. The university trade shops offered classes in business, carpentry, farming, fishing, construction, shoe making, tailoring, navigation etc. This is very important because as an Imam or Islamic scholar one has to impart honest and unbiased judgments in settling legal issues. This integrity will be compromised if the Imam or the scholar’s living expenses are being supplied by the rich people. In order the Imam or scholar to be just and fair in discharging legal decrees, he has to earn his own halal (permissible) income.
3. The superior degree
The curriculum was highly specialized. The students sat in classes of renowned professors. Sankore was one of the most important departments of the University in this regard. At this level, the studies were of higher learning and mastery and are comparable to any university in the Islamic world. The students did more of the research work. For instance, the professors of the different branches of Islamic knowledge would give the students questions on different subjects and topics to be researched. Each student would then present, argue and defend his position in front of the professors and other students who would storm him with a flow of tough questions. Students go from one department to the others and from one professor to the others in search of knowledge. Most students at this stage would find a Shayk or master and study under his guidance. The Shayk would purge the student of all his Shaytanic characteristics and tendencies, and then would ensure that the same graduate student be a good Islamic model for the generation to come. Graduation was based upon a student's excellent Islamic character and his mastery of Islamic knowledge.
4. The circle of knowledge
This is the club of Muslim Imams, Scholars and Professors. It was here that most of the important and crucial issues of Islam are being discussed. The caliphs or Muslims state leaders such as Askia Mohammed of the Songhai Empire, Mansa Musa of the Malian Empire, Shayk Amadu of the Fulani caliphate of Massina, The amirs and sultans of the provinces of the Sudan would send crucial questions to the Ulemas or scholars of Timbuktu. The scholar who received the questions will make copies of these question or issues and distribute them among the members of the circle of knowledge. Each scholar will research the issue and then they all get together to share their answers and thus put together a manuscripts dealing in detail with the questions or issues and then issue a Fatwa or legal Islamic ruling by the government authorities will abide.
There was also the case of one Muslim who was wealthy and generous. Whoever was in need in Timbuktu approached him and secured a loan. As time went by, the Imam of Jingare Ber noticed that the number of attendance of Mosque was decreasing each Friday. (Jingare Ber, up to the present day, is the only Masjid open on Fridays in Timbuktu. The entire population converges to this famous Mosque). The Imam inquired about the cause of the lowered attendance at the Masjid and discovered that most people of Timbuktu owed money to the generous wealthy man. The people who owed him money were unable to pay their debt so they decided to stay home for fear and embarassment of running into the man. The dilemma now is what to do. The matter was submitted to the circle of knowledge who decided that the wealthy man should stay home or forgive the debt. The wealthy man was called in. He forgave those in debt and said he had no idea that the lower attendance was because of him.
A sidekick, where are all the biological weapons in Iraq?
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: I thought these people were all slaves?
I mean how could these people accomplish all of that and lose hundreds of millions of people over 4, 5, 6 centuries to the rest of the world by the "slaaaaaaaave traaaaaaaaade".
This doesn't make sense. Losing that many people would certainly negatively affect a population's ability to achieve. The mentality that one would have to posess in order to casually disregard the losses of his/her own people would certainly be a detriment to any kind of achievement.
Just think in terms today with various cities, states, and nations trying to curtail brain drain.
Either you guys are lying and making up these achievements of the so called subsaharans or west Europeans are lying about subsaharans being 1. the world's exclusive supply of slaves and 2. the millions, upon millions, upon millions that were supposedly enslaved.
Which one of you are perpetuating the lies?
And here is a quick summary,
Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas on 18 June, 1452. It authorized Alfonso V of Portugal to reduce any “Saracens (Muslims) and pagans and any other unbelievers” to perpetual slavery. This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
The same pope wrote the bull Romanus Pontifex on January 5, 1455 to the same Alfonso. As a follow-up to the Dum diversas, it extended to the Catholic nations of Europe dominion over discovered lands during the Age of Discovery. Along with sanctifying the seizure of non-Christian lands, it encouraged the enslavement of native, non-Christian peoples in Africa and the New World.
1492 Battle of Granada - January 2 - Ferdinand II of Aragon defeated the last Muslim kingdom in Andalusia, Granada of sultan Boabdil
1492 - Columbus reaches America.
The year 1452, the year 1466, the year 1492, the year 1493, the year 1591:
1591 feb 28, The Sultan of Morocco launched his successful attack to capture Timbuktu. Morocco sent soldiers under the Muslim Spaniard Judar Pasha to conquer Songhai. After a five month journey across the Sahara, Pasha arrived, his soldiers carried guns and Gao. The 25,000 men of the Songhai were no match for the guns, Timbuktu and most of Songhai fall. The Songhai had guns too. But most of them didn’t know yet, how the gun worked. A lot of books were taken to Morocco.
There are still 700,000 manuscripts in Timbuktu and surroundings that are on the verge of being lost if the appropriate action is not taken. These manuscripts represent a turning point in the history of Africa and its people. The translation and publication of the manuscripts of Timbuktu will restore self-respect, pride, honor and dignity to the people of Africa and those descended from Africa; it will also obliterate the stereo-typical images of Tarzan and primitive savages as true representation of Africa and its civilization.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu are a living testimony of the highly advanced and refined civilization in Sub-Sahara Africa. Before the European Renaissance, Timbuktu flourished as the greatest academic and commercial center in Africa. Great empires such as Ghana, Mali, and Songhai were proofs of the talents, creativity and ingenuity of the African people. The University of Timbuktu produced both Black African scholars and leaders of the highest rank, character and nobility.
The manuscripts of Timbuktu cover diverse subjects such as mathematics, chemistry, physics, optics, astronomy, medicine, Islamic sciences, history, geography, the traditions, government legislation and treaties, jurisprudence and much more.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
Ish Gebor, the above is very vague. You did not explain in any detail.
When you say "west" Africa, do you mean any of these countries: Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Mauritania?
We are all looking forward to your answer Ish Gebor.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
Ish Gebor, the above is very vague. You did not explain in any detail.
When you say "west" Africa, do you mean any of these countries: Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Mauritania?
We are all looking forward to your answer Ish Gebor.
It's not vague, it's your lack of historical understand of the subject, on the African continent, that's the problem here.
I have no time to go in to details, thats why I gave a quick summary. But it was specific enough.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Ish Gebor I want to explain about argyle104 so his harassing questions make more sense. argyle believes that the Trans Atlantic Slave trade involved trade of slaves from all regions/countries in Africa equally not especially from the Western Coast. So he shows up when there is anything said which relates to that. He's trying to change the topic of threads to that topic. If you ever feel like arguing on that topic with him I recommend you start a new thread on the Trans Atlantic Slave trade because trolls such as argyle never start their own threads
-I wonder why
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: This facilitated the Portuguese slave trade from West Africa.
Ish Gebor, the above is very vague. You did not explain in any detail.
When you say "west" Africa, do you mean any of these countries: Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Mauritania?
We are all looking forward to your answer Ish Gebor.
I also posted on some excavation sites, so I really don't understand your question here?
Mauritania is a West African country. By the way.
Mansa Musa
Mansa Musa is mostly remembered for his extravagant hajj, or pilgrimage, to Mecca with, according to the Arab historian al-Umari, 100 camel-loads of gold, each weighing 300 lbs.; 500 slaves, each carrying a 4 lb. gold staff; thousands of his subjects; as well as his senior wife, with her 500 attendants. With his lavish spending and generosity in Cairo and Mecca, he ran out of money and had to borrow at usurious rates of interest for the return trip. Al-Umari also states that Mansa Musa and his retinue "gave out so much gold that they depressed its value in Egypt and caused its value to fall."
However, attention should be focused on the effects of the hajj, rather than the pilgrimage itself.
The hajj planted Mali in men's minds and its riches fired up the imagination as El Dorado did later. In 1339, Mali appeared on a "Map of the World". In 1367, another map of the world showed a road leading from North Africa through the Atlas Mountains into the Western Sudan. In 1375 a third map of the world showed a richly attired monarch holding a large gold nugget in the area south of the Sahara. Also, trade between Egypt and Mali flourished.
Mansa Musa brought back with him an Arabic library, religious scholars, and most importantly the Muslim architect al-Sahili, who built the great mosques at Gao and Timbuktu and a royal palace. Al-Sahili's most famous work was the chamber at Niani. It is said that his style influenced architecture in the Sudan where, in the absence of stone, the beaten earth is often reinforced with wood which bristles out of the buildings.
Mansa Musa strengthened Islam and promoted education, trade, and commerce in Mali. The foundations were laid for Walata, Jenne, and Timbuktu becoming the cultural and commercial centers of the Western Sudan, eclipsing those of North Africa and producing Arabic-language black literature in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Diplomatic relations were established and ambassadors were exchanged between Mali and Morocco, and Malinke students were sent to study in Morocco.
For the forty-seven years between the time of the death of his grandfather's brother, Sundiata, and Mansa Musa's accession to the throne, Mali endured a period of political instability. Mansa Musa ruled for 25 years, bringing prosperity and stability to Mali and expanding the empire he inherited.
Mali achieved the apex of its territorial expansion under Mansa Musa. The Mali Empire extended from the Atlantic coast in the west to Songhai far down the Niger bend to the east: from the salt mines of Taghaza in the north to the legendary gold mines of Wangara in the south.
Mansa Musa died in 1337. He had brought stability and good government to Mali, spreading its fame abroad and making it truly "remarkable both for its extent and for its wealth and a striking example of the capacity of the Negro for political organization" (E.W. Bovill, 1958, The Golden Trade of the Moors).
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
We are all looking forward to your answer Ish Gebor.
I want to translate this. When argyle, the Scotsman says "we" in the above sentence he really means "I"
resume conversation....
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Ish Gebor I want to explain about argyle104 so his harassing questions make more sense. argyle believes that the Trans Atlantic Slave trade involved trade of slaves from all regions/countries in Africa equally not especially form the Western Coast. So he shows up when there is anything said which relates to that. He's trying to change the topic of threads to that topic. If you ever feel like arguing on that topic with him I recommend you start a new thread on the Trans Atlantic Slave trade because trolls such as argyle never start their own threads
-I wonder why
Well, slaves were not merely taken from West Africa. But predominantly, yes!
Does Angola ring a bell? Some genetic studies also refer to the upper part of the Sahara. Let's say the lower part of North Africa. They weren't taken in abundance, but it did happen.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
So why would they faciliated the slave trade from so called "west" Africa and not so called "north" Africa?
Aren't Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia closer to Portugal? Aren't all of those countries muslim as well?
We're waiting for your answer Ish Gebor.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
We are all looking forward to your answer Ish Gebor.
I want to translate this. When argyle, the Scotsman says "we" in the above sentence he really means "I"
resume conversation....
Oh and I was thinking, "they" meant to say their extreme rightwing club members. As a collective as "we".
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: slaves were not merely taken from West Africa. But predominantly, yes!
Does Angola ring a bell? Some genetic studies also refer to the upper part of the Sahara. Let's say the lower part of North Africa. They weren't taken in abundance, but it did happen.
I agree
now watch...
give him a few minutes
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
So why would they faciliate the slave trade from so called "west" Africa and not so called "north" Africa?
Aren't Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia closer to Portugal? Aren't all of those countries muslim as well?
We're waiting for your answer Ish Gebor.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice people, that when it comes to slavery the "anjunct ejupt be black" crowd always cede to their white owners' authority. However when it comes to Ancient Egypt trained degreed, white scientists are never to be believed.
The pathology is fascinating to observe.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
So why would they faciliated the slave trade from so called "west" Africa and not so called "north" Africa?
Aren't Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia closer to Portugal? Aren't all of those countries muslim as well?
We're waiting for your answer Ish Gebor.
I am rushing here, because I need to go somewhere. So just quickly.
During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal. And ironically Morocco fought against Mali. This gave access to West Africa.
From what we know and is known, it's said that native Americans could not do heavy jobs. And West Africans were physically were more equipped. Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries. But to answer your question, it lies at the Moors. As soon as they could they went after the Moors. The darkest amongst the Moors. Who could be found in West Africa. In fact there is still a place/location in Morocco still under the autonomy of Spain.
The city of Timbuktu was known as far as West Europe.
“Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland.
From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.” Source "ANOTHER AFROCENTRIC" lol: The National Archives of Scotland.
"The King Provides Clothes for the Party A variety of fabrics were used to make clothing for the Moors - velvet ('wellus'), woollen kersey ('carsay') and fine Holland linen - which was decorated or fastened with buttons, rings or other ornaments ('mailyeis'). These were paid for by the treasury of King James IV. It seems that these Moors were not servants; it is more likely that they were invited guests staying at the palace. Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, vol. 3, p. 101 (1505)"
"The King Requests an Audience with a Black Baby This extract from the Lord High Treasurer's accounts show that in 1505/6 a payment of 28 shillings was made to 'the nuris that brocht the Moris barne to see, be the Kingis command'. The king must have known of this child to ask to see it." "The child may have been that of the 'More taubronar', the Black drummer at court. Treasury accounts also itemise accommodation for the 'wife of the taubronar and his barne'. This would suggest that the drummer was living at the palace with his family. Accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, vol. 3, p. 182 (1505/6)"
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Notice people, that when it comes to slavery the "anjunct ejupt be black" crowd always cede to their white owners' authority. However when it comes to Ancient Egypt trained degreed, white scientists are never to be believed.
The pathology is fascinating to observe.
It's pathology is fascinating to observe, how you ignore the proven archeological sites and the actual history.
It's known that many Western scholars during older days use to write in prejudice and hatered. Just as real as the biological weapons in Iraq. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Notice people, that when it comes to slavery the "anjunct ejupt be black" crowd always cede to their white owners' authority. However when it comes to Ancient Egypt trained degreed, white scientists are never to be believed.
The pathology is fascinating to observe.
I will later on do a analyzation on your pathologal and fascinating behavior.
You are in for someting!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal.
Then that would make "north" Africa an even better choice than "west" Africa to facilitate slavery from.
Ish Gebor?........................Comments?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And ironically Morocco fought against Mali. This gave access to West Africa.
Hmmmmmm, so the area of a landlocked country gave them access to all of the territory on your map.
Ish Gebor?.................................
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: From what we know and is known, it's said that native Americans could not do heavy jobs. And West Africans were physically were more equipped.
And you make this unsubstantiated claim based on what?
Notice people, no facts, no evidence, no proof given. Just opinionated statements based on nothing.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries.
The U.S. has only been a functionally free country since 1783.
Also, substantiate your claim of this "long time" partnership.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor:
quote: But to answer your question, it lies at the Moors. As soon as they could they went after the Moors. The darkest amongst the Moors.
On what evidence do you base this on?
Why would they go after the darkest of the Moors? Are you saying there was a phenotype for slavery?
Give an example of the darkest of the Moors.
From what modern day nations did the "darkest of the Moors" come from?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle doesn't know about the Arab slave trade (including slaves of various races) . He assumes that all black slaves that were East African were all part of the European/American slave market.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal.
Then that would make "north" Africa an even better choice than "west" Africa to facilitate slavery from.
Ish Gebor?........................Comments?
Define North Africa....
Define West Africa...
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
So this is what you people like. No wonder you all are always at my heels. No way me and my picture spams could satisfy this need. So many great minds all gathered together, it's almost scary.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal.
Then that would make "north" Africa an even better choice than "west" Africa to facilitate slavery from.
Ish Gebor?........................Comments?
Does the Hamitic myth ring a bell? Pseudo scholar!
Since you keep asking me stupid questions.
And I already answered your question, it's just that you aren't too bright to understand it.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow. Q The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Clown. How are they caucasoid when they are predominantly African in origin. And have their root in East Africa! When most of them look like mixed blacks anyway. Or A mutt as you would call them.
The Berber language has it's linguistic root in Chadic languages. And the most unmixed Berbers are the Siwa.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow?
Again you're proving not to be too bright.
Lastly you're claiming that North Africans never have been enslaved?
All that other stuff you wrote was just rubbish. And not needed to comment on.
Yet all these Africans are connected by two major haplotypes. L* and E*.
Plus your maps on "so called race" aren't of any relevance to me.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor:
quote: But to answer your question, it lies at the Moors. As soon as they could they went after the Moors. The darkest amongst the Moors.
On what evidence do you base this on?
Why would they go after the darkest of the Moors? Are you saying there was a phenotype for slavery?
Give an example of the darkest of the Moors.
From what modern day nations did the "darkest of the Moors" come from?
Yes, dummy there is a phenotype for the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. This is what separates the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade from other kinds of slave trades.
I also gave you credible info on the Moors. But it appears you are dimwitted. Or is it you lack knowledge of history, which seems more like it. Hence asking all the odd and dumb questions. Proving you aren't well educated on the subject.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
But since you love the subject of slavery as much as you do, I like to ask you what facilitated the slaves of Europe? Especially the British/ Irish slaves. Who have been enslaved by for example the Vikings and the Romans.
What is the root word and etymology of the word "slave", anyway?
This is just for starter....
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries.
The U.S. has only been a functionally free country since 1783.
Also, substantiate your claim of this "long time" partnership.
Thanks for proving once again that you aren't a trained historian. But merely a clown. Now don't get me wrong, I am no historian either, but at least I know the sources I am speaking of. Whereas you are completely null.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: From what we know and is known, it's said that native Americans could not do heavy jobs. And West Africans were physically were more equipped.
And you make this unsubstantiated claim based on what?
Notice people, no facts, no evidence, no proof given. Just opinionated statements based on nothing.
No evidence?
This one here is creasy.
Please feel free to explain what happened to native Americans when the Europeans enslaved them.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: argyle doesn't know about the Arab slave trade (including slaves of various races) . He assumes that all black slaves that were East African were all part of the European/American slave market.
Yep, he for sure does not know about the saqaliba and the mamluk . This is why he will receive a unforgettable burning ass whooping.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle actually did start some threads, all attacks on other people. Anyway this one is a classic
btw the this fool cassertides, thread starter left the forum about a two weeks ago
Posted by abdi (Member # 18622) on :
africans also did slave trade, in somalia,somalis used to sale africans from tanzania to arabs i believe, so not all africans were slave. people used to slave the weaker one africa. sub-saharan people were weaker in defence and that is why it was easier for the white men to enslave west african. if you cant defend your land,well you are vulnarable to be enslaved.
somalis were great horse fighters,so not easy to mess with, and europeans would dare to enslave somali or ethiopian.
some west africans like hausha in nigeria were brave in battles and i believe white men never rested hausha land in peace little alone enslave them
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
how and when did the horse come to be used by Somalians to ride and put soldiers on ?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdi: africans also did slave trade, in somalia,somalis used to sale africans from tanzania to arabs i believe, so not all africans were slave. people used to slave the weaker one africa. sub-saharan people were weaker in defence and that is why it was easier for the white men to enslave west african. if you cant defend your land,well you are vulnarable to be enslaved.
somalis were great horse fighters,so not easy to mess with, and europeans would dare to enslave somali or ethiopian.
some west africans like hausha in nigeria were brave in battles and i believe white men never rested hausha land in peace little alone enslave them
If may correct you here, every during ancient times you will find that slavery was. Slavery amongst Africans was too for multiple reasons, sometimes as captives of war other times it was in a social construction looking for a better life, so peole freely became a servant for a perticulair time, then went back to their own place. For your point on the weakness of the West subSaharan Africans, the reason why they lost is because they did not have the same weaponry as the Europeans had during that time. Like guns and canons (hence why the West was able to colonize and conquer the rest of the world.) And where it was introduced like in Mali they did not have full knowledge of the gun yet, they were in the learning process. So this is why Mali lost the war against Morocco. Because Moroccan soldiers had guns, and already had training in the weapon. For some strange reasons they with Europe. Maybe it was the political condition of colonization. Anyway, they did fight and a lot died. Multiple factors here, some Africans helped along enslaving other Africans in rivalry, as a way to get back at them. Like in every war you will find betrayers, infiltrators etc...So it was there. Due to inner conflicts. Also what needs to be mentioned is that West sub Sahara Africans already traded why Europe and facilitated them products such as salt. Salt which ironically a basic building component for gunpowder in bullets. ........it's all a bit more complex as what some people make it out to be...
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdi: africans also did slave trade, in somalia,somalis used to sale africans from tanzania to arabs i believe, so not all africans were slave. people used to slave the weaker one africa. sub-saharan people were weaker in defence and that is why it was easier for the white men to enslave west african. if you cant defend your land,well you are vulnarable to be enslaved.
somalis were great horse fighters,so not easy to mess with, and europeans would dare to enslave somali or ethiopian.
some west africans like hausha in nigeria were brave in battles and i believe white men never rested hausha land in peace little alone enslave them
Excuse my typos, I was a bit tired. So I re-post.
If may correct you here, everywhere during ancient times you will find that slavery was. Slavery amongst Africans was too for multiple reasons, sometimes as captives of war other times it was in a social construction looking for a better life, so people freely became a servant for a perticulair time, then went back to their own place. For your point on the weakness of the West subSaharan Africans, the reason why they lost is because they did not have the same weaponry as the Europeans had during that time. Like guns and canons (hence why the West was able to colonize and conquer the rest of the world.) And where it was introduced like in Mali they did not have full knowledge of the gun yet, they were in the learning process. So this is why Mali lost the war against Morocco. Because Moroccan soldiers had guns, and already had training in the weapon. For some strange reasons they sided with Europe. Maybe it was due to the political condition of colonization. Anyway, they did fight and a lot died. Multiple factors here, some Africans helped along enslaving other Africans in rivalry, as a way to get back at them. Like in every war you will find betrayers, infiltrators etc...So it was there. Due to inner conflicts. Also what needs to be mentioned is that West sub Sahara Africans already traded why Europe and facilitated them products such as salt. Salt which ironically was/ is a basic building component for gunpowder in bullets. ........it's all a bit more complex as what some people make it out to be...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Abdi perhaps you should read more about slavery or slave trade for one thing Somalis and others were less attractive to enslavers because they were nomadic that does not mean that no Somali or Ethiopians were never captured and ended up in chains somewhere, one also don't find of San and Pygmies being made slaves in mass for that very reason it was simply that settled folks are easier to get at plus terrain may also played at part.
And during era of the slave trade the western one at least it was African empire building that provided much of the slaves not whitemen riding rough shod over Africans as a matter of fact these White-had to pay Africans rent for those slave forts and were not allowed to ventured inland to get their own.. East Africans are not supermen
After all this guy was a slave from the horn as well as others mentioned by this link.
Wahshi ibn Harb (may Allah be pleased with him) that killed the false prophet Musaylimah, when Musaylimah and his followers attacked the Muslims.
Btw Mai Idris Alooma of Kanem Bornu made use of Turkish slaves and other West African Kings had in their harems Syrian, Ethiopian and other slaves from other lands within and outside Africa. http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006597 go here~
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote:Somalis and others were less attractive to enslavers because they were nomadic
Provide evidence of this. You could have provided substantiative evidence of this, but you didn't. Why? Because you can't. You have no substantiative evidence. So you're reduced to making statements that are nothing more than opinions to back up your race fantasies.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote:Somalis and others were less attractive to enslavers because they were nomadic
Provide evidence of this. You could have provided substantiative evidence of this, but you didn't. Why? Because you can't. You have no substantiative evidence. So you're reduced to making statements that are nothing more than opinions to back up your race fantasies.
LOL Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote: Somalis and others were less attractive to enslavers because they were nomadic
Why would being a nomad make one less attractive to "enslavers"?
Don't run from the question Brada-Anansi.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Just call me Jari,
The scholarly beatdowns that I have laid on you must have been more servere than I thought.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote: I will later on do a analyzation on your pathologal and fascinating behavior.
You are in for someting!
Greetings.
I can give you a quick one word summary of the pathology:
YURUGU.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ What about Mogudishu, was that not a "Somali" urban settlement.
BTW, Fagyle I mean Agryle how come you are so obsessed with slavery, did you sleep through all the other classes when other topics were discussed...??
Don't run Argie Boy...
Don't Run...like you ran last time...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote: one also don't find of San and Pygmies being made slaves in mass
Where's the evidence?
This forum is not about fantasy. We demand facts here, which for some reason you can't provide.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Just call me Jari,
The scholarly beatdowns that I have laid on you must have been more servere than I thought.
When are you going to respond to my questions? I have responded to yours!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote: one also don't find of San and Pygmies being made slaves in mass
Where's the evidence?
This forum is not about fantasy. We demand facts here, which for some reason you can't provide.
Well, since disclaim I urge you to prove to opposite.
Since you seem to pull your favorite line, every time when you have no evidence to debunk. Just mere opinions based on fantasies. But never backing up your facts. Provide sources stating that San and Pygmies were taken as slaves.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Argie boy is an intellectual fraud he only deals with his theory that All Africans were enslaved in the Atlantic.(Although he suprisingly has merit to SOME of his claims, as some Berbers etc did end up in Puerto Rico as revealed by Mind.)
Argie boy is a troll who should have been banned although I do enjoy him exposing and attacking intellectual frauds like Brada and the Pink Panther AKA Dana Marniche.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
quote: I will later on do a analyzation on your pathologal and fascinating behavior.
You are in for someting!
Greetings.
I can give you a quick one word summary of the pathology:
YURUGU.
Nice, the primordial egg. Symbol of self creation.
Thanks. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Brada-Anansi wrote:
quote: one also don't find of San and Pygmies being made slaves in mass
Where's the evidence?
This forum is not about fantasy. We demand facts here, which for some reason you can't provide.
Also, what do you consider facts?
Since all you have written up till now was based on fantasies. No proof/ probe, no evidence. Nothing!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
probe = prove
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And ironically Morocco fought against Mali. This gave access to West Africa.
Hmmmmmm, so the area of a landlocked country gave them access to all of the territory on your map.
Ish Gebor?.................................
So now your claiming there was no war between Timbuktu and Morocco?
1437 Edward of Portugal, supported by his brothers, Henry and Fernando, attacks Tangiers with a view to improving his trade and exploration base in North Africa. The attack succeeds but at a cost. Fernando is captured and dies in prison and Edward himself dies of plague the following year.
1458 - 1471 It is a troubled period in the sultanate. The king of Portugal decides to expand his interests along the coastal section of Morocco, so his forces start with the conquest of Alcacer Ceguer in 1458. At the same time there is unrest inside Morocco, demonstrated the following year when Abu Muhammad Abd revolts against his own Wattasid viziers. Only two Wattasid brothers survive and it is they who become the first Watassids sultans in 1472. Before this can happen, Tangiers is conquered by the Portuguese in 1460 and is won and lost on multiple occasions up until 1464, and Henry IV of Castile takes Gibraltar in 1462.
1465 - 1472 The sultan is murdered in Fes in 1465, and Tangiers is secured by the Portuguese as they benefit from the chaos. while they also seize Arzila in 1471. Central control of the country is compromised until the former Wattasid viziers succeed in taking over in 1472.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Your = you're
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal.
Then that would make "north" Africa an even better choice than "west" Africa to facilitate slavery from.
Ish Gebor?........................Comments?
Malians express great pride in their ancestry. Mali is the cultural heir to the succession of ancient African empires--Ghana, Malinké, and Songhai--that occupied the West African savannah. These empires controlled Saharan trade and were in touch with Mediterranean and Middle Eastern centers of civilization.
The Ghana Empire, dominated by the Soninke or Saracolé people and centered in the area along the Malian-Mauritanian frontier, was a powerful trading state from about A.D. 700 to 1075. The Malinke Kingdom of Mali had its origins on the upper Niger River in the 11th century. Expanding rapidly in the 13th century under the leadership of Soundiata Keita, it reached its height about 1325, when it conquered Timbuktu and Gao. Thereafter, the kingdom began to decline, and by the 15th century, it controlled only a small fraction of its former domain.
The Songhai Empire expanded its power from its center in Gao during the period 1465-1530. At its peak under Askia Mohammad I, it encompassed the Hausa states as far as Kano (in present-day Nigeria) and much of the territory that had belonged to the Mali Empire in the west. It was destroyed by a Moroccan invasion in 1591. Timbuktu was a center of commerce and of the Islamic faith throughout this period, and priceless manuscripts from this epoch are still preserved in Timbuktu. The United States and other donors are making efforts to help preserve these priceless manuscripts as part of Mali's cultural heritage.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, every response Ish Gebor has posted to my questions is either a straw man or red herring.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, every response Ish Gebor has posted to my questions is either a straw man or red herring.
I answered question in multiple ways, based on historical accounts, I am waiting for you to respond to my question.......................
Still nothing but deflections, up till now.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, every response Ish Gebor has posted to my questions is either a straw man or red herring.
And please elaborate on what was straw man or red herring about my posts and sources? Back up what you're claiming.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Originally posted by argyle104:
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: ------------------------------------------ During the fall of the Moors North Africans were conquered by Spain and Portugal. ------------------------------------------
argyle104 wrote:
Then that would make "north" Africa an even better choice than "west" Africa to facilitate slavery from.
Ish Gebor?........................Comments?
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Does the Hamitic myth ring a bell? Pseudo scholar!
Since you keep asking me stupid questions.
And I already answered your question, it's just that you aren't too bright to understand it.
People, his reply is a red herring. The question was since he said that Spain and Porugal conquered "north" Africa, then wouldn't that logically make it an area to facilitate slave trading.
Ish Gebor's reply was to bring up the Hamitic Myth. What does the Hamitic Myth have to do with the question?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Originally posted by argyle104:
Ish Gebor wrote: --------------------------------------- Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries. ---------------------------------------
argyle104 wrote:
The U.S. has only been a functionally free country since 1783.
Also, substantiate your claim of this "long time" partnership.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Thanks for proving once again that you aren't a trained historian. But merely a clown. Now don't get me wrong, I am no historian either, but at least I know the sources I am speaking of. Whereas you are completely null.
Folks, again notice the straw man. The question is not about who is or who is not a historian, but rather a request for him to:
1. Detail this so called partnership between the U.S. and Morocco
2. Give us a specific number of years this so called partnership has existed.
He couldn't do it because he was making it up so he plays a straw man argument of who is a historian.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Clown. How are they caucasoid when they are predominantly African in origin. And have their root in East Africa! When most of them look like mixed blacks anyway. Or A mutt as you would call them.
The Berber language has it's linguistic root in Chadic languages. And the most unmixed Berbers are the Siwa.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow?
Again you're proving not to be too bright.
Lastly you're claiming that North Africans never have been enslaved?
All that other stuff you wrote was just rubbish. And not needed to comment on.
Yet all these Africans are connected by two major haplotypes. L* and E*.
Plus your maps on "so called race" aren't of any relevance to me.
This is a straw man reply. My post demonstrated just how the map that "you posted" is basically a pseudohistorical companion to the debunk pseudoscience race taxonomy con job employed by "west" Europeans.
Your response as everyone can see is a rambling straw man attempt to deflect the pseudohistorical racism of your own map.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: But since you love the subject of slavery as much as you do, I like to ask you what facilitated the slaves of Europe? Especially the British/ Irish slaves. Who have been enslaved by for example the Vikings and the Romans.
What is the root word and etymology of the word "slave", anyway?
This is just for starter....
Again, notice the red herring argument. I'm discussing the map that Ish Gebor posted . What does he do in order to dodge and escape? He brings us Europe.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Clown. How are they caucasoid when they are predominantly African in origin. And have their root in East Africa! When most of them look like mixed blacks anyway. Or A mutt as you would call them.
The Berber language has it's linguistic root in Chadic languages. And the most unmixed Berbers are the Siwa.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoid" is colored yellow?
Again you're proving not to be too bright.
Lastly you're claiming that North Africans never have been enslaved?
All that other stuff you wrote was just rubbish. And not needed to comment on.
Yet all these Africans are connected by two major haplotypes. L* and E*.
Plus your maps on "so called race" aren't of any relevance to me.
This is a straw man reply. My post demonstrated just how the map that "you posted" is basically a pseudohistorical companion to the debunk pseudoscience race taxonomy con job employed by "west" Europeans.
Your response as everyone can see is a rambling straw man attempt to deflect the pseudohistorical racism of your own map.
Again we can see deflections, nothing you back up with evidence to debunk.
What I wrote there is correct just like everything else I wrote. please feel free and elaborate on Horner tribes. And tribes of North Africa. And your claims that North Africans never have been enslaved.
Or the observation of haplo E* and L*.
And will you're at it you may want to explain where the Berber language stems from......
Your last sentence was a bit weird, I may add. Almost hilarious and stupid.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: From what we know and is known, it's said that native Americans could not do heavy jobs. And West Africans were physically were more equipped.
People, it is very clear by this statement that Ish Gebor is disturbingly into pseudoscience racial taxonomy.
You can provide evidence for your lunatic statement above anytime you want Ish Gebor. However we know that you won't because your post is all fantasy and dogma rather than scientifically factual.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Yes, dummy there is a phenotype for the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade.
I'm not even going to ask you for evidence of your lunacy above. I'm going to humor you by pretending what you said is true.
What was this phenotype for slavery Ish Gebor?
Don't run from this question. You made the opinionated statement, now you back it up.
Folks, watch this.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104:
Ish Gebor wrote: --------------------------------------- Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries. ---------------------------------------
argyle104 wrote:
The U.S. has only been a functionally free country since 1783.
Also, substantiate your claim of this "long time" partnership.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Thanks for proving once again that you aren't a trained historian. But merely a clown. Now don't get me wrong, I am no historian either, but at least I know the sources I am speaking of. Whereas you are completely null.
Folks, again notice the straw man. The question is not about who is or who is not a historian, but rather a request for him to:
1. Detail this so called partnership between the U.S. and Morocco
2. Give us a specific number of years this so called partnership has existed.
He couldn't do it because he was making it up so he plays a straw man argument of who is a historian.
You are close to a retard, this is for sure. Thinking you know about history.
1) read and weep!
1750 – 1912 During the American Revolution, so many American ships called at the port of Tangiers that the Continental Congress sought recognition from the "Emperor" of Morocco. This was accorded, in effect, in 1777, making Morocco the first country to recognize the fledging American republic. Negotiation of a formal treaty began in 1783, and resulted in the signing in 1786 of the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, both future U.S. Presidents, were the American signatories.
During the American Civil War, Morocco reaffirmed its diplomatic alliance with the United States by assuring Washington that the Kingdom, “being a sincere friend of the American nation, would never air or give countenance to the [Confederate] insurgents.”
The first international convention ever signed by the United States, the 1865 Spartel Lighthouse Treaty, dealt with a navigational aid erected on the Moroccan side of the Strait of Gibraltar. The Treaty, ratified by Morocco, President Andrew Johnson and nine European heads of state, granted neutrality to the lighthouse with the condition that the ten naval powers signing the agreement assumed responsibility for its maintenance.
Around the turn of the 20th Century, as European colonizers gazed hungrily as Morocco’s resources and strategically located harbors, the United States strongly defended the Kingdom’s right to its continued sovereignty at the 1880 Madrid Conference and at the Algeciras Conference in 1906.
In 1912, after Morocco became a protectorate of Spain and France, American diplomats called upon the European powers to exercise colonial rule that guaranteed racial and religious tolerance: “In short,” the U.S. Consul in Tanger declared,” fair play is what the United States asks for Morocco and all interested parties.”
As I enclose this, so I can back up everything I have stated and have done already. Whereas you.......?
2) when are you going to respond to my questions....I am waiting......
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And your claims that North Africans never have been enslaved.
As everyone can now see, Ish Gebor is engaged in full desperation mode. He now has to resort to distortion and lies.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: But since you love the subject of slavery as much as you do, I like to ask you what facilitated the slaves of Europe? Especially the British/ Irish slaves. Who have been enslaved by for example the Vikings and the Romans.
What is the root word and etymology of the word "slave", anyway?
This is just for starter....
Again, notice the red herring argument. I'm discussing the map that Ish Gebor posted . What does he do in order to dodge and escape? He brings us Europe.
That map shows the regions where enslaved Africans of the trans atlantic slave trade were taken from. No more no less? What is there to dodge or escape? If I did I would not have posted this and other info. Yet in the main while I am waiting for you to respond to my questions........this shows how much/ less you know.
People see he can't respond, this is why he keeps dancing around the questions I purpose. Not once responded to one of them....this tells more then we need to know.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
^^^ I mean meanwhile.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And your claims that North Africans never have been enslaved.
As everyone can now see, Ish Gebor is engaged in full desperation mode. He now has to resort to distortion and lies.
I already have shown you to be a liar, pseudo historian and dimwit in the previous post. Why you want more? Don't do this to yourself.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Mog like the other city states were traders in slaves from the interior of non Muslims that is and so was protected from raids like other Swahili city states except when non Muslims made them paid dearly an interesting four way conflict between the coastal Swahili the Portuguese the Turks and an inland very powerful state called the Malawi empire, who control another people called the Zimba as shock troops..more shocking than most shock troops so because they were reported to be cannibals.
quote: That map shows the regions where enslaved Africans of the trans atlantic slave trade were taken from.
And why are we to believe that map? How do you know that map is true?
We're waiting....................
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104:
Ish Gebor wrote: --------------------------------------- Another irony is that Morocco have been a long time partner of the USA. For many centuries. ---------------------------------------
argyle104 wrote:
The U.S. has only been a functionally free country since
1783.
Also, substantiate your claim of this "long time" partnership.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Thanks for proving once again that you aren't a trained historian. But merely a clown. Now don't get me wrong, I am no historian either, but at least I know the sources I am speaking of. Whereas you are completely null.
Folks, again notice the straw man. The question is not about who is or who is not a historian, but rather a request for him to:
1. Detail this so called partnership between the U.S. and Morocco
2. Give us a specific number of years this so called partnership has existed.
He couldn't do it because he was making it up so he plays a straw man argument of who is a historian.
Barros Serrano wrote: <quoted text> You are obviously poorly educated if you think Afrikeen makes any sense. I know all about slavery of everyone, that is irrelevant. The point everyone in here is afraid to grasp is that genome analyses of the N AFRICAN BERBERS prove that they are of Eurasian origin and have been in N Africa for 30,000 years. That includes the predynastic people of the Delta. Please investigate the distribution of mtDNA haplotype U in the world... fools. My "mentality"? I am eminently anti-racist, therefore morally superior to YOUR pompous and bigoted ass. Try not to let the debate devolve into a "who was the bigger slave/slaver" contest, as often happens in here. Haplogroup E1b1b1 (M35)
Y-chromosome variation in South Iberia: Insights into the North African contribution
American Journal of Human Biology Volume 21, Issue 3, pages 407–409, May/June 2009
-Population of Pedroches Valley, a hypothetical Berber settlement, located in the northwest portion of Córdoba province (Andalusia, Spain), had been analyzed for its Y-chromosome diversity. Moreover, to contextualize this population, 127 Y-chromosomes from a general Andalusia sample and a North African Berber community (Marrakech, Morocco) were also typed.
-For all samples, 24 single nucleotide polymorphisms of the non-recombining portion of the Y-chromosome (NRY) were analyzed and those samples described as belonging to E3b1b-M81 haplogroup were also typed for 16 Y-chromosome short tandem repeats.
-Our Analysis showed low levels of North African E3b1b-M81 haplogroup in the Pedroches Valley population (1.5%), which is a lower contribution than would be expected. This result rejects the hypothesis of a gradual genetic assimilation of Berber settlers during the Islamic period. Am. J. Hum. Biol., 2009.
More is coming later, I have to go for now....
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: That map shows the regions where enslaved Africans of the trans atlantic slave trade were taken from.
And why are we to believe that map? How do you know that map is true?
We're waiting....................
Because traces are found in culture, traditions, language etc.. events as well as genetics nowadays. Just to sum up a few.
Dammit, you're stupid.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: That map shows the regions where enslaved Africans of the trans atlantic slave trade were taken from.
And why are we to believe that map? How do you know that map is true?
We're waiting....................
Oh, in the meanwhile. Respond to my questions will ya'. Be polite will ya'.
We're waiting.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Kebor wrote:
quote: Because traces are found in culture, traditions, language etc.. events as well as genetics nowadays. Just to sum up a few.
Folks, what can you say about the above?
So if there is no trace of a culture then members of that group were never brought over to the Americas?
So if a person was brought over here and sold to a plantation where he would have been the only person of his ethnic group on that plantation. You are saying his culure would have survived?
Does the word variables mean anything to you? Your thinking is that of someone who watches a mindless television show.
What kind of laws did that plantation have?
Did the person have kids?
Did the kids survive?
Did he actively try to promote his culture, traditions, and languages under the lid tight laws of the plantation?
Did he even have the materials or resources to keep his culture, traditions, and languages even if he could practice it?
How does one attribute a culture, traditions, and languages practice to a particular group.
Is it even possible to locate each and every culture, tradition, and language from the thousands upon thousands of different world wide ethnicities brought to the Americas as slaves?
How many groups can these so called culture, traditions, and languages be attributed to?
How many groups will be left out, even though individuals from those groups were brought to the Americas?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And your claims that North Africans never have been enslaved.
As everyone can now see, Ish Gebor is engaged in full desperation mode. He now has to resort to distortion and lies.
Is this true or not?
The Carthaginians took over the existing Phoenician settlements and expand them to other cities including Tamuda (near Tetuan), and at Ksar es-Seghir (Al-Qasr al-Saghir). The Carthaginian empire was, like the Phoenicians, more commercially oriented than territorial focused. Thus, Carthage never excised political control except along the coastal port cities.
Carthage's political plan was thus: assimilate the sedentary people who lived in these colonial cities into society and try and push the nomadic people who dwelt nearby beyond the borders of the colonies. Because things didn't go according to plan, three situations resulted. First was the chora, the nodal territories that Carthaginian land owners farmed by using Berber slaves which had been acquired by trade or conquest. The second situation was the dependent territories which were farmed by tax-paying Berber slaves, who often revolted against the Carthaginians. And third, there was the frontier, the independent territories where resistant nomads gathered, settled and began to imitate the Carthaginians ways in their farming, weapons, literacy, religious ideas, political ideas and making alliances with the imperial rivals.
Now lets keep in mind that when westeners speak of Berbers they speak of the light complected one, they dismiss the dark-skinned. So the references are logically the light complected.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Kebor wrote:
quote: And your claims that North Africans never have been enslaved.
Post the statement that you attribute to me above.
We're waiting.....................
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Kebor wrote:
quote: Because traces are found in culture, traditions, language etc.. events as well as genetics nowadays. Just to sum up a few.
Folks, what can you say about the above?
So if there is no trace of a culture then members of that group were never brought over to the Americas?
So if a person was brought over here and sold to a plantation where he would have been the only person of his ethnic group on that plantation. You are saying his culure would have survived?
Does the word variables mean anything to you? Your thinking is that of someone who watches a mindless television show.
What kind of laws did that plantation have?
Did the person have kids?
Did the kids survive?
Did he actively try to promote his culture, traditions, and languages under the lid tight laws of the plantation?
Did he even have the materials or resources to keep his culture, traditions, and languages even if he could practice it?
How does one attribute a culture, traditions, and languages practice to a particular group.
Is it even possible to locate each and every culture, tradition, and language from the thousands upon thousands of different world wide ethnicities brought to the Americas as slaves?
How many groups can these so called culture, traditions, and languages be attributed to?
How many groups will be left out, even though individuals from those groups were brought to the Americas?
Again you lack knowledge of the subject. This is why it is hard for you to comprehend the antraplogical research. So you keep asking stupid questions, time and time again. And I true have no time to site here going back and forth with someone who is obviously taking this as sarcasm. It's simple a waste of my time. Asking nonses, like if kids survived?
Most of the descendants of the enslaved Africans have roots to their traditions in one way or another. With the exception of African Americans. Thou in Gulla we can find traces as well. But there are many ways to resolve these issues. One of them is...
In 2008 Freeman's family history was profiled on the PBS series African American Lives 2. A DNA test showed that he is descended from the Songhai and Tuareg peoples of Niger
AFRICAN ARCHAEOLOGICAL REVIEW Volume 18, Number 1, 49-62
Igbo-Ukwu and the Nile
Abstract:
The external connections of Igbo-Ukwu, in the forest belt of south-eastern Nigeria, around the ninth century AD, are demonstrated by the large numbers of glass beads, apparently of Egyptian manufacture, and are implicit in the rich collection of bronze artwork that lacks known prototypes. Although the metals were mined locally, the labor and the expert alloying and casting of numerous ritual or ornamental objects indicate an accumulation of wealth derived from distant trade of special commodities. The identification of these commodities, however, and the routes by which they—and in the reverse direction the beads—would have traveled, remain unsatisfactorily resolved. A preference is repeated here for an eastern Sahelian routing from Lake Chad to the Middle Nile kingdoms (Alwa and Makuria/Dongola), then at their height, thus avoiding the Sahara. The alternative direction suggested recently (Insoll, T., and Shaw, T.(1997) Gao and Igbo-Ukwu: Beads, interregional trade and beyond. African Archaeological Review, 14:9–23), through Gao on the Niger bend and across the west-central Sahara, seems less likely on grounds of geography and chronology. The essential items of merchandise deriving from Igbo-Ukwu are unlikely to be those commonly assumed for sub-Saharan Africa, notably ivory and slaves, but would have been more local and precious, presumably metals. The bronzes stored and buried at Igbo-Ukwu might be regarded as by-products of this export activity. Demands in the Nile Valley for tin (for bronze alloying) and for silver, both of which occur in the ores exploited, deserve consideration. A call is made for comparative study of metals and their uses between the Middle Nile and West Africa in the first millennium AD—a neglected subject owing to the intellectual gulf that persists between Africanists and Egyptologists.
Ish, don't mind Argyle. He is nothing more than a frustrated white boy from Scotland pretending to be black in the internet (perhaps as part of some sick sexual fantasy). Most of us in this forum ignore since all he wants is attention.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Argyle is a reactionary. He asks a lot of questions. Then you go working finding supporting evidence and he justs sits back, not putting up any sources himself and then just asks more and more annoying questions. It's just a tactic to try to get you to do work while he puffs on a cigarette in the bathtub with his rubber duck playing with himself.
argyle's basic program
1) there is no such thing as race 2) slaves were taken to America and Europe from every region of Africa equally, West Africa was just the transport point 3) Any history or genetic information written by white people can't be trusted 4) Scottish people are superior
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Ish, don't mind Argyle. He is nothing more than a frustrated white boy from Scotland pretending to be black in the internet (perhaps as part of some sick sexual fantasy). Most of us in this forum ignore since all he wants is attention.
Well, in that case I have some additional information for him, since he is obsessed with the subject of slavery. I will use some external sources, so he can't say that I made it up, or fantasize....Write unproven...ideology. Since he likes to ride that bandwagon.
Introduction:
Slaves
Not everyone was free to come and go as he or she liked. Some people were slaves or 'thralls'. Slaves did the hardest, dirtiest jobs. People could be born slaves. The child of a slave mother and father was a slave too, but the child of a slave mother and a free father was free. Many slaves were people captured in a Viking raid. Viking traders sold slaves in markets, but slave-trading in England was stopped in 1102.
The Aristocracy - The Anglo-Saxon territory was divided into seven separate kingdoms commonly referred to as the heptarchy. Each kingdom was ruled by a king, the king's sons who were called aethlings and the ruling nobility known as the eoldermen. (Anglo-Saxon village) The basic unit of land was called the hide which was enough land to support one family and varied in size from 40 acres to 4 square miles. Approximately one hundred hides formed the unit known as the 'hundred', and each village or shire contained many hundreds. (another Anglo-Saxon village) For each hundred, one leader known as the 'hundred eolder' was responsible for administration, justice, and supplying military troops, as well as, leading its forces. The office was not hereditary, but by the tenth century the office was selected from among a few outstanding families.
The thane, similar to the knight, stood at the lowest echelon of the aristocracy. Good service by a thane resulted in gifts, the granting of lands, and elevation to eolderman. Members of the clergy held the title of thane as they were considered one of 'God's thanes', and bishops generally held the position of eolderman.
The Middle Class - The middle class was divided into three main classes of freemen, also known as ceorls: The geneatas, a peasant aristocracy who paid rent to their overlord, the kotsetlas, and the geburs, or lower middle class. All ceorls had the right and duty to serve in the fyrd, which was the Anglo-Saxon military. Ceorls won promotion through economic prosperity or military service. If a ceorl possessed five hides of land, he became entitled to the rights of a thane, but could not be elevated to the position of thane or eolderman.
The lower class - At the lowest end of the social strata was the slave or bondsmen, also known as the theow. Although they were slaves or bondsmen, they were entitled to certain provisions, such as grain. The slaves were allowed to own property and could earn money in their spare time which allowed them to buy their freedom. When times were difficult people sold themselves into slavery to ensure they were provisioned.
The early Anglo-Saxon society was organized around clans or tribes and was centered around a system of reciprocity called comitatus. The eoldorman expected martial service and loyalty from his thanes, and the thanes expected protection and rewards from the lord. By the middle of the ninth century the royal family of Wessex was universally recognized as the English royal family and held a hereditary right to rule. Succession to the throne was not guaranteed as the witan, or council of leaders, had the right to choose the best successor from the members of the royal house.
The military organization - As stated above, the military organization was called the fyrd, which consisted of highly trained thanes chosen from each hundred. Thanes became 'professional' warriors because their position within the society depended upon it. In peace time the thanes had to serve one month out of every three in rotation, so there was always a sizeable force on call. Loyalty to a lord was the greatest virtue for the thane, and if their lord or king died in battle, his men were expected to die avenging his death, as it was considered dishonorable to leave the battlefield on which the military leader had been slain. Those who did were executed by their lord's successor for their disloyalty. The Fyrd also served as a police force when not at war.
Religion and the role of the church - (St Alpheges church) (St. Wereburg) Besides the spiritual functions of the church, the Church also fulfilled the functions of a 'civil service', and for the nobility, an educational system. The Church and the government needed men who could read and write in English and Latin to write letters and keep accounts. (illuminated manuscripts) The words 'cleric' and 'clerk' have the same origin, and every nobleman would have at least one priest to act as a secretary.
Economy - The economy of the early middle ages was not cash based. (Anglo-Saxon clothing) Even though coins were minted, their use was not widespread, and most goods were bartered. (jewelry and pottery) Trade relied upon transport to be effective, and water was the preferred method of transport. For this reason, the most successful markets were near rivers.
Slavery was an important part of the Anglo-Saxon economy. Almost all the slaves traded in the early middle ages were captured in raids or warfare. It seems to have been the practice to kill the leaders of the losing army and enslave the local villagers. The English conquest of Cornwall led to the enslavement of many of the indigenous Celts. At the Westminster Council of 1102ce, slavery was abolished.
David Wyatt, Ph.D. (2003) in History, Cardiff University, is the Co-ordinating Lecturer in History at Cardiff University’s Centre for Lifelong Learning.
Slaves and Warriors in Medieval Britain and Ireland,800-1200
Modern sensibilities have clouded historical views of slavery, perhaps more so than any other medieval social institution. Anachronistic economic rationales and notions about the progression of European civilisation have immeasurably distorted our view of slavery in the medieval context. As a result historians have focussed their efforts upon explaining the disappearance of this medieval institution rather than seeking to understand it. This book highlights the extreme cultural/social significance of slavery for the societies of medieval Britain and Ireland c. 800-1200. Concentrating upon the lifestyle, attitudes and motivations of the slave-holders and slave-raiders, it explores the violent activities and behavioural codes of Britain and Ireland’s warrior-centred societies, illustrating the extreme significance of the institution of slavery for constructions of power, ethnic identity and gender.
The Vikings in Ireland
The Vikings first attacked Ireland in 795. They looted monasteries. They also took women and children as slaves. However the Vikings were not only raiders. They were also traders and craftsmen. In the 9th century they founded Ireland's first towns, Dublin, Wexford, Cork and Limerick. They also gave Ireland its name, a combination of the Gaelic word Eire and the Viking word land. In time the Vikings settled down. They intermarried with the Irish and accepted Christianity.
Around 940 the great High King Brian Boru was born. At that time the Danes had conquered much of the kingdom of Munster. Brian defeated them in several battles. In 968 he recaptured Cashel, the capital of Munster. After 976 Brian was king of Munster and in 1002 he became the High King of Ireland. However in 1014 Leinster, the people of Dublin and the Danes joined forces against him. Brian fought and defeated them at the battle of Clontarf on 23 April 1014, although he was killed himself. This victory ended the Viking threat to Ireland.
The Vikings in Iceland
The first people to settle in Iceland were probably Irish monks who came in the 8th century. However in the 9th century they were driven out by Vikings.
According to tradition the first Viking to discover Iceland was a man named Naddoddur who got lost while on his way to the Faeroes. Following him a Swede named Gardar Svavarsson circumnavigated Iceland about 860. However the first Viking attempt to settle was by a Norwegian named Floki Vilgeroason. He landed in the northwest but a severe winter killed his domestic animals and he sailed back to Norway. However he gave the land its name. He called it Iceland.
Then in the late 9th century many settlers came to Iceland from Norway and the Viking colonies in the British Isles. A Norwegian named Ingolfur Arnarson led them. He sailed with his family, slaves and animals.
When he sighted Iceland Ingolfur dedicated his wooden posts to his gods then threw them overboard. He vowed to settle at the place where the sea washed them up. He then explored Iceland. When the posts were found in the southwest Ingolfur and his household settled there. He called the place Reykjavik, meaning Smokey bay. Many other Vikings followed him to Iceland.
The land was free to whoever wanted it. A man could claim as much land as he could light fires around in one day while a woman could claim as much land as she could lead a heifer round in one day.
There were very good fishing grounds around Iceland and the land was well suited to sheep. Many Vikings brought flocks with them and soon sheep became a major Icelandic industry. The population of Iceland soared. By about 930 there were about 60,000 people living in Iceland.
The Peasant's Life.
Villages consisted of from 10-60 families living in rough huts on dirt floors, with no chimneys or windows. Often, one end of the hut was given over to storing livestock. Furnishings were sparse; three legged stools, a trestle table, beds on the floor softened with straw or leaves. The peasant diet was mainly porridge, cheese, black bread, and a few home-grown vegetables.
Peasants had a hard life, but they did not work on Sundays or on the frequent saints' days, and they could go to nearby fairs and markets. The lot of serfs was much harsher.
The Serf's Life.
Although not technically a slave, a serf was bound to a lord for life. He could own no property and needed the lord's permission to marry. Under no circumstance could a serf leave the land without the lord's permission unless he chose to run away. If he ran to a town and managed to stay there for a year and a day, he was a free man. However, the serf did have rights. He could not be displaced if the manor changed hands. He could not be required to fight, and he was entitled to the protection of the lord.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Argyle is a reactionary. He asks a lot of questions. Then you go working finding supporting evidence and he justs sits back, not putting up any sources himself and then just asks more and more annoying questions. It's just a tactic to try to get you to do work while he puffs on a cigarette in the bathtub with his rubber duck playing with himself.
argyle's basic program
1) there is no such thing as race 2) slaves were taken to America and Europe from every region of Africa equally, West Africa was just the transport point 3) Any history or genetic information written by white people can't be trusted 4) Scottish people are superior
That's odd, confusing and mind boggling. Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Now Ish Gebor, your intellectual thrashing will continue.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Or the observation of haplo E* and L*.
And will you're at it you may want to explain where the Berber language stems from......
Folks, this is a red herring. What does the "haplo whatever" have to do with the fact that he has posted a map that is a pseudohistorical companion to west European pseudoscience race taxonomy?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Or the observation of haplo E* and L*.
And will you're at it you may want to explain where the Berber language stems from......
Folks, this is a red herring. What does the "haplo whatever" have to do with the fact that he has posted a map that is a pseudohistorical companion to west European pseudoscience race taxonomy?
argyle says the map is wrong because the orange portion, hard to read, seems to say "Slave gathering areas" and he believes that they gathered slaves from the whole of Africa.
For example, accordingly, racist Americans and Europeans excluded Namibians from the main slave gathering areas on the map because they are trying to say Namibians aren't true black people, they are part white. Of course you see evidence of them saying that in the quotes he put up
I mean didn't put up
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: From what we know and is known, it's said that native Americans could not do heavy jobs. And West Africans were physically were more equipped.
People, the above is more evidence that Ish Gebor subscribes to the debunked race taxonomy pseudoscience.
Again notice how his postings are nothing more than ideological race loon opinions. No facts at all. For those of you familiar with the idiot site wikipedia, you can see that his reply is repleat with weasel phrases such as "From what we know" and "it's said".
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Argyle is a reactionary. He asks a lot of questions. Then you go working finding supporting evidence and he justs sits back, not putting up any sources himself and then just asks more and more annoying questions. It's just a tactic to try to get you to do work while he puffs on a cigarette in the bathtub with his rubber duck playing with himself.
argyle's basic program
1) there is no such thing as race 2) slaves were taken to America and Europe from every region of Africa equally, West Africa was just the transport point 3) Any history or genetic information written by white people can't be trusted 4) Scottish people are superior
Lionese, I can't help but notice the more you post, the less we have to endure reading Hammer's drivel. In fact, I notice the more confidence we see in your Lionese persona, the less we hear from (Mr.) Hammer.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
f hammer
question, would argyle put you in the "race loon" category?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Yes, dummy there is a phenotype for the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade.
What is this supposed phenotype for one to have had in order to be a slave in the so called "Trans Atlantic Slave Trade"?
Don't run this question as you have previously tried.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: But to answer your question, it lies at the Moors. As soon as they could they went after the Moors. The darkest amongst the Moors.
Again,
On what evidence do you base this on?
Why would they go after the darkest of the Moors? Are you saying there was a phenotype for slavery?
Give an example of the darkest of the Moors.
From what modern day nations did the "darkest of the Moors" come from?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: [QB] And the point of the post above is to say what exactly?
making it more clear what you don't agree with about the map ish put up
you feel that during the Trans Atlantic slave trade Africans were gathered up in equal or near equal proportions from all regions of Africa
you seem to be from the "there is no such thing as race" camp
I think it's a reasonable position
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, the fool above is not going to get a response from me. I don't reply to race loons. Hell I don't even read its posts. It was lucky that I mistakenly replied to it in the first place because I thought it was Ish Gebor replying to me. As you can see upon recognizing my mistake and recognizing I was replying to it, I promptly deleted my post.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, the fool above is not going to get a response from me. I don't reply to race loons. It was lucky that I mistakenly replied to it in the first place because I thought it was Ish Gebor replying to me. As you can see upon recognizing my mistake and recognizing I was replying to it, I promptly deleted my post.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor subscribes to the debunked race taxonomy pseudoscience.
Again notice how his postings are nothing more than ideological race loon opinions.
----------------------------------
but he doesn't reply to race loons
we're waiting...................
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle, this whole forum is a race loon forum, years go by and you haven't figured it out yet
the original title of this forum was Race & Ancient Egypt
A racial classification is given to a group of individuals who share a certain number of anthropological traits, which is necessary so that they not be confused with others. There are two aspects which must be distinguished, the phenotypical and genotypical. I have frequently elaborated on these two aspects.
If we speak only of the genotype, I can find a black who, at the level of his chromosomes, is closer to a Swede than Peter Botha is. But what counts in reality is the phenotype. It is the physical appearance which counts. This black, even if on the level of his cells he is closer than Peter Botha, when he is in South Africa he will live in Soweto. Throughout history, it has always been the phenotype which has been at issue; we mustn't lose sight of this fact. The phenotype is a reality, physical appearance is a reality.
Now, every time these relationships are not favorable to the Western cultures, an effort is made to undermine the cultural consciousness of Africans by telling them, `We don't even know what a race is.' What that means is, they do know what a yellow man is, they do know what a white man is. Despite the fact that the white race and the yellow race are derivatives of the black which, itself, was the first to exist as a human race, now we do not want know what it is. If Africans fall into that trap, they'll be going around in circles. They must understand the trap, understand the stakes.
It is the phenotype which as given us so much difficulty throughout history, so it is this which must be considered in these relations. It exists, is a reality and cannot be repudiated. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Argyle is a reactionary. He asks a lot of questions. Then you go working finding supporting evidence
Please STFU already about "supporting evidence". I'm still looking for this re your holocaust fairy tale. lol
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: [QB] And the point of the post above is to say what exactly?
making it more clear what you don't agree with about the map ish put up
you feel that during the Trans Atlantic slave trade Africans were gathered up in equal or near equal proportions from all regions of Africa
you seem to be from the "there is no such thing as race" camp
I think it's a reasonable position
Hey, you were right when you explained this individual.
I have answered all his questions, but I never received any answer to my questions. He appears to keep on rambling the same over and over, even though it was answered already.
Besides all this, it is also off topic. And people by now have seen what kind of fool this truly is.
And you are right, I am not going to spend my time on a complete void and crooked mind like that.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, look at the map Ish Gebor posted.
It looks exactly like a map version of the debunked pseudoscience race typology.
The north - home to "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The horn of Africa - home to hybrid "caucasoids" is colored yellow.
The southern part of Africa - home of the "non-negro" khoi and san is colored yellow.
The middle of the map - home of "negroids" is colored orange, signifying these were the types of people that were slaves.
Ish Gebor, you need to explain this.
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Or the observation of haplo E* and L*.
And will you're at it you may want to explain where the Berber language stems from......
Folks, this is a red herring. What does the "haplo whatever" have to do with the fact that he has posted a map that is a pseudohistorical companion to west European pseudoscience race taxonomy?
argyle says the map is wrong because the orange portion, hard to read, seems to say "Slave gathering areas" and he believes that they gathered slaves from the whole of Africa.
For example, accordingly, racist Americans and Europeans excluded Namibians from the main slave gathering areas on the map because they are trying to say Namibians aren't true black people, they are part white. Of course you see evidence of them saying that in the quotes he put up
I mean didn't put up
Again, I see what you mean. His type of conversations are awkward, indeed. Asking asking asking...., answering.....? No, never! It simply respectfully does not work like that.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Argyle is a reactionary. He asks a lot of questions. Then you go working finding supporting evidence
Please STFU already about "supporting evidence". I'm still looking for this re your holocaust fairy tale. lol
What do you mean by; a holocaust fairy tale?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
People, notice how once more Ish Gebor running away from the questions again.
Ish Gebor, I will ask you once more the following question which is based on your own statements.
Since you are running from the rest, I decided to just reduce it down to one.
Failure to answer them will be seen by others as you running away from an intellectual thrashing.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, notice how once more Ish Gebor running away from the questions again.
Ish Gebor, I will ask you once more the following questions which are based on your own statements.
Failure to answer them will be seen by others as you running away from an intellectual thrashing.
Clown, I have answered your question.
Tell, how many have you answered? Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor, what is this supposed phenotype for one to have had in order to be a slave in the so called "Trans Atlantic Slave Trade"?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor, what is this supposed phenotype for one to have had in order to be a slave in the so called "Trans Atlantic Slave Trade"?
Do you even know what a phenotype is by the way.....oh what you don't answer questions...
Ever heard of the Hamitic myth? Historian?.....
I already posted about this.......
But your retarded brain can't comprehend.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, notice how once more Ish Gebor running away from the questions again.
Ish Gebor, I will ask you once more the following question which is based on your own statements.
Since you are running from the rest, I decided to just reduce it down to one.
Failure to answer them will be seen by others as you running away from an intellectual thrashing.
What rest are you talking about anyway.....retard? Why is it you don't back up your claims?
Writing that I failed to answer you makes you look stupid beyond hilarious, when people can read and witness that I even put in direct links.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
argyle is trying to say that the trans Atlantic slave trade covered all phenotypes
Instead of saying this outright he asks questions hoping people will figure it out
It's a roundabout way of doing things which confuses people
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor, what is this supposed phenotype for one to have had in order to be a slave in the so called "Trans Atlantic Slave Trade"?
Let me guess, that slave ports are a hoax too, according to you.
Now be nice for once, and reply to my questions......or at least back up your claims......
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: argyle is trying to say that the trans Atlantic slave trade covered all phenotypes
Instead of saying this outright he asks questions hoping people will figure it out
It's a roundabout way of doing things which confuses people
What is all? All is a very broad term...in my opinion. Why doesn't he back it up with sources....everything I wrote is what is known. Yet he called it intellectually trashing?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I have been through all this with argyle before. He argues that slaves came from everywhere in Africa equally and brought from those areas to ports on the coast.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Gebor, argyle is one of those type of people that boast about intellectual thrashings and prowess but never follow through. I suggest you ignore him like most of the posters do.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
In terms of effects I say yes, it had a negative effects all over Africa. now here and there a few may have slipped in, but predominantly it was sub Saharan West Africans.
I once did read a document where it was steated that ships left the coasts 7 days a week. And we know that each ship carried about 250 to 400 people, on a journey, were a lot died, before they even arrived in the Americas. This happened for about 400 years. If you take at least one ship by one portal the amount is already shocking. Summing up more portals will give us a greater number, logically. So the sum is easy to be calculated according to this info. I think this terrifying number is his greatest concern.
In fact there is a French historian who once estimated that about one-hundred million Africans were enslaved.
Could it be true? We know it was very brutal. Indians were killed off, about 60 mill of them died during their holocaust on the hand of Westerners.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Sorry for my typos.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Gebor, argyle is one of those type of people that boast about intellectual thrashings and prowess but never follow through. I suggest you ignore him like most of the posters do.
Yes, this was my plan. Strange is that when I ask him questions he doesn't respond to them. And I literally posted multiple sources to backup my claims. Yet, "I" fantasies and make it all up? Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I have been through all this with argyle before. He argues that slaves came from everywhere in Africa equally and brought from those areas to ports on the coast.
One more add, yes it's true that the enslaved Africans mostly did not come from the regions of the slave ports themselves. They were indeed rounded up and taken to the portals from elsewhere and shipped off to the Americas.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
The Lost Libraries of Timbuktu 1 of 5 - BBC Travel Documentary
A project begun in 2001 has finally been completed: The library and archives buillding at the Ahmed Baba Institute of Higher Learning and Islamic Research in the historic city of Timbuktu is finished. Collins Chabane, Minister in the Presidency, recently handed over the building – which began construction under South African auspices following a visit to Mali by former president Thabo Mbeki in 2001 – to the Malian Government:
For an idea of the significance of the material housed in the Timbuktu Library, don’t miss HSRC Press’ The meanings of Timbuktu. This volume, authored by leading international scholars, begins to sketch the “meaning” of Timbuktu within the context of the intellectual history of West Africa, in particular, and of the African continent, in general.
The book covers four broad areas: Part I provides an introduction to the region; outlines what archaeology can tell us of its history, examines the paper and various calligraphic styles used in the manuscripts; and explains how ancient institutions of scholarship functioned. Part II begins to analyse what the manuscripts can tell us of African history. Part III offers insight into the lives and works of just a few of the many scholars who achieved renown in the region and beyond. Part IV provides a glimpse into Timbuktu’s libraries and private collections. Part V looks at the written legacy of the eastern half of Africa, which like that of the western region, is often ignored.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I have been through all this with argyle before. He argues that slaves came from everywhere in Africa equally and brought from those areas to ports on the coast.
One more add, yes it's true that the enslaved Africans mostly did not come from the regions of the slave ports themselves. They were indeed rounded up and taken to the portals from elsewhere and shipped off to the Americas.
that's why argyle had a problem with this map you posted. The orange areas is supposed to represent the "slave gathering" areas. While the orange extends far beyond the coasts, into the interior and to the opposite coast it's still doesn't cover the whole of Africa in that orange color. He thinks the slave gathering area should be shown as the whole African continent. He says that they do that because it helps a different argument that people in the non orange regions were not 100% African therefore they were spared being enslaved. He thinks that the idea that they were all enslaved from every region in Africa proves that all Africans are black because Europeans wouldn't enslave Africans who were part Eurasian. So he believes that for this reason no Africans are mixed with Eurasian ancestry. It may or may not be true they have no part Eurasian ancestry. But if they have no Eurasian ancestry it is not for that reason.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I have been through all this with argyle before. He argues that slaves came from everywhere in Africa equally and brought from those areas to ports on the coast.
One more add, yes it's true that the enslaved Africans mostly did not come from the regions of the slave ports themselves. They were indeed rounded up and taken to the portals from elsewhere and shipped off to the Americas.
that's why argyle had a problem with this map you posted. The orange areas is supposed to represent the "slave gathering" areas. While the orange extends far beyond the coasts, into the interior and to the opposite coast it's still doesn't cover the whole of Africa in that orange color. He thinks the slave gathering area should be shown as the whole African continent. He says that they do that because it helps a different argument that people in the non orange regions were not 100% African therefore they were spared being enslaved. He thinks that the idea that they were all enslaved from every region in Africa proves that all Africans are black because Europeans wouldn't enslave Africans who were part Eurasian. So he believes that for this reason no Africans are mixed with Eurasian ancestry. It may or may not be true they have no part Eurasian ancestry. But if they have no Eurasian ancestry it is not for that reason.
Ok, not 100% African?
Most African tribes/ ethnic groups have never been enslaved. If we have to go by their words. Modern science confirms this as well.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I have been through all this with argyle before. He argues that slaves came from everywhere in Africa equally and brought from those areas to ports on the coast.
One more add, yes it's true that the enslaved Africans mostly did not come from the regions of the slave ports themselves. They were indeed rounded up and taken to the portals from elsewhere and shipped off to the Americas.
that's why argyle had a problem with this map you posted. The orange areas is supposed to represent the "slave gathering" areas. While the orange extends far beyond the coasts, into the interior and to the opposite coast it's still doesn't cover the whole of Africa in that orange color. He thinks the slave gathering area should be shown as the whole African continent. He says that they do that because it helps a different argument that people in the non orange regions were not 100% African therefore they were spared being enslaved. He thinks that the idea that they were all enslaved from every region in Africa proves that all Africans are black because Europeans wouldn't enslave Africans who were part Eurasian. So he believes that for this reason no Africans are mixed with Eurasian ancestry. It may or may not be true they have no part Eurasian ancestry. But if they have no Eurasian ancestry it is not for that reason.
By the way, I did not create this map. I took it because it's small, after I've received complains by several people. The map is originally from a Brazilian website. Also the "Eurasian theory" is kinda' crappy for obvious reasons.
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Abdi perhaps you should read more about slavery or slave trade for one thing Somalis and others were less attractive to enslavers because they were nomadic that does not mean that no Somali or Ethiopians were never captured and ended up in chains somewhere, one also don't find of San and Pygmies being made slaves in mass for that very reason it was simply that settled folks are easier to get at plus terrain may also played at part.
And during era of the slave trade the western one at least it was African empire building that provided much of the slaves not whitemen riding rough shod over Africans as a matter of fact these White-had to pay Africans rent for those slave forts and were not allowed to ventured inland to get their own.. East Africans are not supermen
After all this guy was a slave from the horn as well as others mentioned by this link.
Wahshi ibn Harb (may Allah be pleased with him) that killed the false prophet Musaylimah, when Musaylimah and his followers attacked the Muslims.
Uh, Brudda, all those guys you mentioned - as far as possible but virtually not tapped into African sources for human resources - are small.
Just one West African can beat up a Khoi/San, two "Pygmies" and five Somalis at once. Even the North African / West African / whatever nomadic Tuareg are bigger than the nomadic Somali.
@ Jari, i don't think Mogadishu was part of where Somalis were before the colonial powers -- could be wrong, but i heard they had origins mainly in or are purest mainly in the North. To me they look like they all kin / bredrin enyway.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Whatbox, why don't you shut your butler ass up.
Folks, this is what happens when the wine cellars are not locked up and the hired help gets their hands on the Chardoney.
Now the rest of the forum has to deal with Jeeves walking around with an horderve tray full of crumbs and trying to be intellectual.
PS. Whatbox. Has anyone told you that you look like the son of godzilla with orange skin? The son of Godzilla actually has a better look since he has no teeth while yours are spread apart.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor, this forum has witnessed your intellectual thrashing.
Now they will get to watch.........me.........mete out a scholarly beatdown to you.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
Now your beatdown begins.
quote: As these South Asians melded into the population, they would be identified variously as "Mullato," "Negro," and "colored" in the ethnic cauldron that was evolving in America, thus losing much of their racial distinctiveness with each passing generation, merging into the African-American community, largely unaware of their Indian roots
Folks notice how the term mullato is erroneously thrown around.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Another death blow to Ish Gebors fantasy dogma of slavery in the Americas.
quote: the Portuguese started to trade Arabian slaves because aside from ridding from those people, they also gained profit.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
quote: The Spanish enslaved their Turkish, Portuguese, Arab and Moorish captives, to use them as galley slaves. These prisoners also did slave labor at Cartagena in the West Indies.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
quote: During the 18th century and the first decade ofthe 19th century, [b]a number of arabs, captured by the europeans, were brought to America and sold as slaves. nadim makdisi, "arab adventures in the new world," The Arab World(july 1966) pg 94
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
This is in Florida folks
quote: Turnbull and his group, made up of adventurers, indentured servants and slaves from Spain, Italy and Greece, landed in what is now New Smyrna Beach in 1768.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks this puts an end to the circus clown known as Ish Gebor.
I have just shown that all of his lunatic racial dogma about there being a phenotype for slaves in the Americas was wishful thinking and fantasy.
Later I will dismantle those bogus "slave maps" that he's been posting.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
Now your beatdown begins.
quote: As these South Asians melded into the population, they would be identified variously as "Mullato," "Negro," and "colored" in the ethnic cauldron that was evolving in America, thus losing much of their racial distinctiveness with each passing generation, merging into the African-American community, largely unaware of their Indian roots
Folks notice how the term mullato is erroneously thrown around.
Where is your prove, where is your evidence?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Another death blow to Ish Gebors fantasy dogma of slavery in the Americas.
quote: the Portuguese started to trade Arabian slaves because aside from ridding from those people, they also gained profit.
Where is your prove, where is your evidence?
Where are the descendants of those so called Arabian slaves? Where were the brought during the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade?
And was has this to do with Sub Saharan civilizations?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
quote: During the 18th century and the first decade ofthe 19th century, [b]a number of arabs, captured by the europeans, were brought to America and sold as slaves. nadim makdisi, "arab adventures in the new world," The Arab World(july 1966) pg 94
To what part of the Americas where they brought? And from where did these Arabs come.....?
And in most countries the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was already officially abolished, at the ending of the 18th-19th century. Due to the industrial revolution, slaves werent longer required, as before. Thou there have been methods to extent forms of slavery amongst the black population of America, till 1940 ( don't know the exact time, I have to look it up.).
Also, Brown vs the Board and the Jim Crow Law were implemented because the current government of that time was against the abolishment of slavery. This is solely in the Wildernis of North America.
So effectively, slavery actually truly ended 60 years ago in the Wildernis of North America.
Similair implements such as the Brown vs the Board were installed elsewhere in colonial areas. Like the Carabbian/ Latin America.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks this puts an end to the circus clown known as Ish Gebor.
I have just shown that all of his lunatic racial dogma about there being a phenotype for slaves in the Americas was wishful thinking and fantasy.
Later I will dismantle those bogus "slave maps" that he's been posting.
I am waiting for your prove. And answers to all of my questions.....I haven't received any yet. Up till now. Only deflections.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
quote: The Spanish enslaved their Turkish, Portuguese, Arab and Moorish captives, to use them as galley slaves. These prisoners also did slave labor at Cartagena in the West Indies.
So, actually you're saying that they have been brought in large number to the Americas?
Questions: where and when? I need evidence!
For you information...a servant wasn't the same as a slave!
Where are these descendants?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks this puts an end to the circus clown known as Ish Gebor.
I have just shown that all of his lunatic racial dogma about there being a phenotype for slaves in the Americas was wishful thinking and fantasy.
Later I will dismantle those bogus "slave maps" that he's been posting.
Tell me what is false about the maps? And were is your back up of what you claim? Support this with credible, valid sources. Of this middle passage.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Typo...
Were = where is you backup.....
I am waiting for the answers......and the valid, peer reviewed sources....of your claims.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Ish, ignore argyle. He exists on this forum only to irritate people.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Ish, ignore argyle. He exists on this forum only to irritate people.
I know what you mean....but I am curious when he got his info from. I like to see original documentation of what he claims. Since Asians were taken to the Americas after the abolishment of slavery.
This was because the former African slaves did not want to do any of the similar labor. So the demand for east Indians and other groups came. They received relatively fair payment for their labor as well as land, as a start off. They also were able to express their culture, keep their names etc...there genealogy is mostly known....!
Whereas Africans weren't even allowed to play African instruments, keep their name...etc...in the Wilderness of North America it was even worse, Africans weren't even allowed to speak African based languages. In the law it was implemented that blacks were 3/5th Humanbeing. By law these were implemented and prohibited solely for blacks/ enslaved Africans.
But it's funny when one makes claims, but refuses to back them up.....everything he asked I have shown with valid sources. Where are his...this is what I am waiting for...
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Typo (typing from the iPad, virtual keyboard).
when = where....
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
You really hate that I destroyed your racial hierarchy dogma. Folks this is what ideology does to ones rationale. Ish Gebor is attempting to ignore history that doesn't fit his racialist agenda.
Ish Gebor you can't beat history, you just can't.
Why is it that you are so hard up to need a certain phenotype for slavery?
Posted by Calabooz (Member # 18238) on :
Argyle feel the wrath of my intellectual thrashing:
You Dumbass
This intellectual thrashing brought to you by Calabooz LOL
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
You really hate that I destroyed your racial hierarchy dogma. Folks this is what ideology does to ones rationale. Ish Gebor is attempting to ignore history that doesn't fit his racialist agenda.
Ish Gebor you can't beat history, you just can't.
Why is it that you are so hard up to need a certain phenotype for slavery?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
You really hate that I destroyed your racial hierarchy dogma. Folks this is what ideology does to ones rationale. Ish Gebor is attempting to ignore history that doesn't fit his racialist agenda.
Ish Gebor you can't beat history, you just can't.
Why is it that you are so hard up to need a certain phenotype for slavery?
I am waiting for you to backup what you claim.
Provide valid sources by peer reviewed academy!
Repond to all the questions I have addressed!
Thanks in advance!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: Argyle feel the wrath of my intellectual thrashing:
You Dumbass
This intellectual thrashing brought to you by Calabooz LOL
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
You really hate that I destroyed your racial hierarchy dogma. Folks this is what ideology does to ones rationale. Ish Gebor is attempting to ignore history that doesn't fit his racialist agenda.
Ish Gebor you can't beat history, you just can't.
Why is it that you are so hard up to need a certain phenotype for slavery?
If what he claims all is true, why is it so hard for him to come up with the peer reviewed evidence?
Posted by Calabooz (Member # 18238) on :
I don't know. Either argyle is retarded, or he purposely does this. Either way, I decided to mock his posts instead of entertaining his stupidity.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz: Argyle feel the wrath of my intellectual thrashing:
You Dumbass
This intellectual thrashing brought to you by Calabooz LOL
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
You really hate that I destroyed your racial hierarchy dogma. Folks this is what ideology does to ones rationale. Ish Gebor is attempting to ignore history that doesn't fit his racialist agenda.
Ish Gebor you can't beat history, you just can't.
Why is it that you are so hard up to need a certain phenotype for slavery?
If what he claims all is true, why is it so hard for him to come up with the peer reviewed evidence?
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
Great news.
Africa considers a continent-wide space agency/Africa: AU's space agency
quote: And in most countries the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was already officially abolished, at the ending of the 18th-19th century. Due to the industrial revolution, slaves werent longer required, as before. Thou there have been methods to extent forms of slavery amongst the black population of America, till 1940 ( don't know the exact time, I have to look it up.).
What is this? This boy is worse than Whatbox. It's not even remotely coherent. So the slave trade was abolished at the end of the 1800s? oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we never would have guessed that. You're not exactly a member of mensa are you?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ What are you guys arguing about now, since obviously the topic is null? Also, you need to just ignore Argay since as Truth pointed out, he is a troll whose only purpose is to annoy intelligent posters. Some of you are new here, but take it from the veterans, there is no point in addressing that fool. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: And in most countries the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was already officially abolished, at the ending of the 18th-19th century. Due to the industrial revolution, slaves werent longer required, as before. Thou there have been methods to extent forms of slavery amongst the black population of America, till 1940 ( don't know the exact time, I have to look it up.).
What is this? This boy is worse than Whatbox. It's not even remotely coherent. So the slave trade was abolished at the end of the 1800s? oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we never would have guessed that. You're not exactly a member of mensa are you?
I am waiting for you to show me your so called peer reviewed " evidence". And backup of claims! I have not seen anything yet up till now. Only blah blah blah....and more nonsense babble...
Tic toc...tic toc......waiting....? Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What are you guys arguing about now, since obviously the topic is null? Also, you need to just ignore Argay since as Truth pointed out, he is a troll whose only purpose is to annoy intelligent posters. Some of you are new here, but take it from the veterans, there is no point in addressing that fool.
I understand you'll. But this clown called Argay, is kinda' funny. He can't even address any of what I have requested.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by kenndo: Great news.
Africa considers a continent-wide space agency/Africa: AU's space agency
I add some info inside.another point,while western influence is in nigeria for example,it does not dominate,and growth is taking place in other sectors other then oil.
quote- The economy of Nigeria is a middle income, mixed economy emerging market with well-developed financial, legal, communications, transport, and entertainment sectors. It is ranked 31st in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) as of 2009, and its emergent, though currently underperforming manufacturing sector is the second-largest on the continent, producing a large proportion of goods and services for the West African region.
Overview
A longer-term economic development program is the United Nations (UN)-sponsored National Millennium Goals for Nigeria. Under the program, which covers the years from 2000 to 2015, Nigeria is committed to achieve a wide range of ambitious objectives involving poverty reduction, education, gender equality, health, the environment, and international development cooperation. In an update released in 2004, the UN found that Nigeria was making progress toward achieving several goals
Specifically, Nigeria had advanced efforts to provide universal primary education, protect the environment, and develop a global development partnership.
February 15, 2008 quote- Nigeria's current economic situation is the strongest in its recent economic history. Growth is high, inflation is in single digits, and external and fiscal positions are strong (see table). The recapitalized banking sector and newly active financial markets are supporting private activity. These gains reflect implementation of Nigeria's homegrown reform program. The IMF supported these reforms through a two-year Policy Support Instrument that was concluded successfully late last year. # Outlook positive as long as reforms are sustained and extended # Inflation has been in single digits and targets are within reach __________________________________________________________________ this was for last year for 2009 quote- Lagos — The National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) Wednesday revealed that Nigeria's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for the first quarter of this year grew by 7.23 percent with the Nominal GDP with non-oil sector being the major driver of growth. The NBS in its 2010 first quarter report on the Nation's GDP and endorsed by the Statistician-General of the Federation, Dr. Vincent Akinyosoye, revealed that the non-oil sector played a dominant role in the real GDP with growth rate of 8.15 as against the previous quarter.
"On an aggregate basis, the economy when measured by the Real Gross Domestic Product (GDP), grew by 7.23 percent in the first quarter of 2010 as against 4.50 percent in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. __________________ quote- African countries are playing a more strategic role in international affairs. Global players that understand this and develop greater diplomatic and trade relations with African states will be greatly advantaged.
For many countries, particularly those that have framed their relations with Africa largely in humanitarian terms, this will require an uncomfortable shift in public and policy perceptions. Without this shift, many of Africa's traditional partners, especially in Europe and North America, will lose global influence and trade advantages to the emerging powers in Asia, Africa and South America.
However, the overwhelmingly humanitarian interest of many Western countries and traditional partners has led to stereotyped perceptions of Africa in terms only of problems. These views are increasingly patronizing, recursive, out of touch, and a deterrent to serious business interest. Meanwhile the emerging economic powers of the G20 see Africa in terms of opportunities – as a place in which to invest, gain market share and win access to resources.
___________________________________ 15 Signs The US Is Losing Its Influence In The Western Hemisphere
brazil linkWe won't be the alpha dog in the western hemisphere forever.
Even if the US hadn't crashed into a financial crisis, there are demographic, material, and political forces that have been spreading power around the Americas for decades.
Brazil is first among the BRICs -- four economies that are supposed to overtake the six largest Western economics by 2032.
Mexico is first among the MAVINS -- six economies we expect to blow away expectations and become leading powers in their regions relatively soon.
Canada and Venezuela are oil powers of the distant future.
Peru and Chile are sitting on a fortune of metals and minerals.
Here are 15 signs of our dwindling influence >
_______________________________________-
Added info inside- Africa considers a continent-wide space agency/Africa: AU's space agency
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: What do you mean by; a holocaust fairy tale?
Oh, you didn't know? Anguishofbeing is just anguished of being Jew-frightened. His anti-jewish bigotry and fear is so bad he is just another one of those Holocaust deniars. In his mind no atrocity has ever been committed against Jews but the opposite-- Jews have only ever wrought atrocities against others. We get a lot of psychotic trolls here in Egyptsearch. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: What do you mean by; a holocaust fairy tale?
Oh, you didn't know? Anguishofbeing is just anguished of being Jew-frightened. His anti-jewish bigotry and fear is so bad he is just another one of those Holocaust deniars. In his mind no atrocity has ever been committed against Jews but the opposite-- Jews have only ever wrought atrocities against others. We get a lot of psychotic trolls here in Egyptsearch.
Oh ok, because the city in which I was born and raised was bombed first and destroyed.
Kristall Nacht was as real as the Burning of Tulsa/ Black wall street. As a matter of fact I think Hitler was inspired by the burning of Black wall street.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Oh noo! To the anguished one, the Holocaust and any millions or so Jews whatever the exact number never happened and was all a lie concocted by the 'Elders of Zion'. LMAO Oh and Israel is an apartheid state. Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor, I will now conclude your scholarly beatdown.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
for every 9000 slaves transported to America one was an Arab from North Africa
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
No facts, no evidence.
Your dismissed. <snap>
Folks, obviously my posting of hard facts has left the creature above mentally anquished.
LOOOOOOOOOOL! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
I thought you said there was supposed to be a phenotype for slavery. Obviously your fantasy is wrong.
You're dismissed. <snap>
Come back to this forum when you've grown a brain.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: No facts, no evidence.
Your dismissed. <snap>
Folks, obviously my posting of hard facts has left the creature above mentally anquished.
LOOOOOOOOOOL! : )
this must apply to you you put up a pdf link that has no hard data, no numbers, no records so stop the bullshyt
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Asian American studies will show that there has been a long and varied Asian American history that is imperative to understanding how the US views Asians now. We will start at the very beginning of the Asian American studies in order to help you understand the Asian American history we are discussing. The first Asian Americans were in Manilla, a village that was taken over by the USA. The first Asian Americans were also in Mexico rather than the US. It was not until the 1750's that the Asian American truly began on US soil. During the 1750's Filipino sailors began to come from their native land and stop in the Louisiana territory. Then in the 1840's there was a need for more slaves. Since Africa wasn't offering as many slaves as they did at the beginning, many began to bring over Asians to fill the gap. Thus the start of the Asian American studies and therefore Asian American history shows that slavery was a key part to their past on US soil.
The surprisingly-optimistic findings derived from the recent research regarding Caribbean plantation slavery, however, have found their corollary in the new findings regarding labour migration from Asia during the nineteenth century.
Indians were first brought to the Caribbean from the mid-1840s to work on white-owned sugar plantations as indentured labour to replace newly freed African slaves. The majority of immigrants were young men; later disturbances on the plantations forced the authorities to try and correct the imbalance.
Etc...
Indians first came to Suriname after the abolition of slavery in 1863. The Dutch had established control over the coastal areas in the years after 1667 and attempted to establish a plantation economy by the importation of African slaves. The Africans suffered greatly under slavery and many fled into the jungles of the interior. After slavery was abolished there was an agreement between the UK and the Netherlands for the importation of sub-continental Indians as contract labourers; 34,300 came in the years between 1873 and 1916.
In any case many former slaves refused to work on the estates which had been the site of their servitude, and it was obvious that a more reliable source of labour was needed. From 1845 onwards, hundreds of thousands of indentured immigrants from India arrived at the request of the planters in the British colonies - Trinidad, Jamaica, Grenada, Guyana and St. Vincent.
When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
After the abolition of slavery, East Indians were brought under a new form of slavery called the “indenture system” to rescue the sugar industry. The fact that the sugar industry is still a highly successful and viable industry in Guyana to this day, and the major foreign exchange earner in the country, is a testimony to how well they attained that goal.
for every 9000 slaves transported to America one was an Arab from North Africa
As I said, it could have been that so every now and then someone non African slipped in. That doesn't make it a slave trade amongst such population.
And even "those Arabs they speak of, may have been black".
Odd is that there aren't any traces of what that source claims.
But we do know that a lot of people were taken from Senegal And Nigeria for example. Both have large Muslim populations...so there are many.....
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
quote: Through facts that are now coming to light of Armenians, and possibly Turkish slaves who were brought to America in the 17th century.
Really? Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor, you're done.
You're beatdown.
You're thrashed.
I've proven my case.
PS. People, isn't it astonishing how hard up this character is for slaves to be his fantasy "sub-saharan blacks whom "he" deems as negroes"? It's like his psychological well being depends on it.
What is your ethnicity Ish Gebor?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
ausar,
Since if people had listened to you about ignoring me. They would not have learned the valuable historical facts that I have posted.
ausar,
Do you believe like Ish Gebor, that there was a phenotype for slaves?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ And what would an inbred Scottish degenerate want to know about African slave phenotype?? Why is one so obsessed with African Americans in the first place?? Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti,
Do you believe like Ish Gebor, that there was a phenotype for slaves?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Djehuti,
Do you believe like Ish Gebor, that there was a phenotype for slaves?
no, if you look at slavery throughout the history of the world it covers a great many phenotypes
I don't think anybody here would disagree with that
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ And what would an inbred Scottish degenerate want to know about African slave phenotype?? Why is one so obsessed with African Americans in the first place??
If it's good enough for a Filipino to be obsessed with Africa and "blackness" why can't a Scotsman?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
quote: And what would an inbred Scottish degenerate want to know about African slave phenotype
And once again Djehuti displays his sick pathological racism. Who said anything about an "African slave phenotype"? I never said anything of the sort.
You took that as an opportunity to project your sick racist views Djehuti.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor, you're done.
You're beatdown.
You're thrashed.
I've proven my case.
PS. People, isn't it astonishing how hard up this character is for slaves to be his fantasy "sub-saharan black who "he" deems as negro"? It's like his psychological well being depends on it.
What is your ethnicity Ish Gebor?
In case you don't understand, but the opposite happened!
I have shown multiple sources, stating that other groups came after the Trans Atlanic Slave Trade was abolished. You are the one who can't and refuses to see this. You rather go by fantasies and a hoax!
Your arguments have been destroyed with historical facts and now you want to scream like a child saying "It ain't so!!!", "It ain't so!!!". Keep living in your childish fantasy dreamworld.
Folks, the intellectual thrashing and scholarly beatdown in this thread have been brought to you by Argyle.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Djehuti,
Do you believe like Ish Gebor, that there was a phenotype for slaves?
no, if you look at slavery throughout the history of the world it covers a great many phenotypes
I don't think anybody here would disagree with that
I was under the assumption we were talking about the trans Atlantic slave trade. I already posted info on slavery amongst Europeans. So I have never claimed that Africans solely have been enslaved. But the trans Atlantic slave trade was just that. All other attempts as we see here are just false and a hoax.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Your arguments have been destroyed with historical facts and now you want to scream like a child saying "It ain't so!!!", "It ain't so!!!". Keep living in your childish fantasy dreamworld.
Folks, the intellectual thrashing and scholarly beatdown in this thread have been brought to you by Argyle.
You have not shown historical facts. I have shown historical facts. But you ignore them and run from them, this is typical for you to do.
What you have shown is a hoax, without prove...merely assumptions!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
Why don't you address the sources I provided? Lol
They debunk you nonsense, that's why!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
First of all I would like for you to respond to the link I have provided. As they speak of actual history of the Trans Atlantic Slave trade.
Second, let's say hypothetically that East Indians were enslaved during this time and brought over to the Americas. Than is still was around 95% Africans. Nowhere in the Caribbean and Latin American documents there is spoken of East Indians as slaves during the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. All the document refer to them as coming afterwards, after the abolishment. Why is that?
I did look up the online-DB and it speaks slaves and servants in several Acts.
Terms being used refering to slaves are Negro, Mulatto or Indian. Nowhere did I see East Indian.
The search engine goes from 1736- to 1776. And I did find a few persons, but it was not know whether they were a slave or a servant. As the law made a distinction between the two. No act speaks of East Indian. Only of Negro, Mulatto or Indian as in Native America. I assume. Mulattos were offspring of raped African women, by European men. So genealogy was known, from what I know and what these acts confirm they were considered servants or slaves as well. What is said about them is that they were house slaves.
Virginia Gazette (Parks), Williamsburg , September 15 to September 22, 1738.
RAN away on the 12th of this Instant, from the Plantation of the Hon. Philip Lightfoot, Esq; on Queen's Creek, near Williamsburg, a large, well made Mulatto slave, aged about 32, with long, bushy Hair, like an East-Indian's; speaks tolerable good English; but on a Surprize, stammers a little. Had on an old Felt Hat, a Canvas Shirt, a Cotton Jacket, and a Pair of Crocus Breeches. Whoever takes up said Slave, and brings him to the Plantation aforesaid, or gives Notice of him, so as he may be had again, shall be rewarded in Proportion to his Trouble, by Philip Lightfoot.
Reprint: Windley, vol. 1, p. 7, source, name, subscriber only.
Virginia Gazette (Parks), Williamsburg , From April 15 to April 27, 1737.
RAN away from Col. John Lewis's, in Gloucester County, on the 17th Inst. a square, strong made, [illeg.] jaw'd Mulatto Fellow, named George. He had on a brown Cotton jacket, and went away on a light Bay Horse, belonging to his Master, branded with a Heart. The Horse has a Black Mane and Tail. RAN away in Company with the above-mentioned, an East-Indian, belonging to Mr. Heylin, Merchant, in Gloucester : He is a well-made, small young Fellow, wore his own Hair (which he may have cut off in order to disguise himself:) He is supposed to have on an Olive-colour'd German Serge Coat, with Brass Buttons. He went away on a strong well-made Grey Stallion, branded with a Dott, belonging to his Master. They went from Col. Lewis's to Gloucester Town, where they robb'd a House, and took a Pair of Pistols, a Horse Whip, and 'tis supposed some other Things. They were seen on Monday going up King and Queen County. Whoever secures either of the fore-mentioned Servants, shall receive as a Reward, Two Pistoles ; for both of them, Four Pistoles, and for the Grey Stallion Two Pistoles; to be paid by John Lewis, and John Heylyn.
Reprint: not in Windley
Virginia Gazette (Parks), Williamsburg , From April 15 to April 27, 1737.
Williamsburg, April 22, 1737.
On Monday last about Two o'clock in the Morning, Mr. Heylin's House in Gloucester Town, was robb'd by an Indian servant of his, and a Mulatto Fellow belonging to Col. Lewis. They took away a Pair of Pistols, a Horse-Whip and broke open a Trunk, out of which they stole some Clothes. They were seen the same Day about Eleven o'clock, going up King and Queen. The Indian rode a Grey Stallion which he took belonging to his Master, and the Mulatto a Bay Horse, which belongs to Col. Lewis. They are supposed to be gone towards the Mountains, and from thence, either to New-York or North-Carolina. It is to be hoped that any Gentleman who meets with them will have them secured in order to their being brought to Justice, that others, by their Punishment, may be deterr'd from the like daring Insolence.
Reprint: not in Windley; repr. in Virginia Historical Register, vol. 6 (1853), pp. 94-95.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Your arguments have been destroyed with historical facts and now you want to scream like a child saying "It ain't so!!!", "It ain't so!!!". Keep living in your childish fantasy dreamworld.
Folks, the intellectual thrashing and scholarly beatdown in this thread have been brought to you by Argyle.
Literature and narratives, such as a European traveler's account of Senegambia, an area of West Africa from which many slaves were taken, give another perspective and insite to slavery in the 18th and early 19th century
Early laws distinguished between slaves and servants as well as whites and blacks and included acts dealing with running away. Control of all laborers was the goal, but the trend was toward stricter control of African slaves, while the legal condition of servants slowly improved.
In the beginning these laws traced the differences between slave laborers and indentured servants, gradually distinguishing race as the most prominent feature.
Constitution counts slaves as only 3/5th persons The Constitution is adopted on September 17, 1787. Article 1 of the Constitution specifies that both the number of members of the House of Representatives from each state and the amount of direct taxes will depend on the number of citizens in each state. Members of the military were included in the count, but since slavery was still legal and common, at least in the South, and the issue was very much a dividing line among the framers, the framers agreed that slaves were not to be counted as full citizens. Known as the 3/5th compromise, Clause 3 of Article I, Section 2 counted slaves as 3/5 of a citizen for state representation. This discriminatory and inhumane provision was changed following the Civil War with the passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments that abolished slavery, guaranteed equal protection for all citizens against state actions and created voting rights. Since then, as specified by the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 2, all citizens, regardless of race, are fully included in the count.
Following the end of the fighting, on February 1, 1865, Congress passed the Thirteenth Amendment and forwarded it to the states. It was ratified on December 18, 1865. The Thirteenth Amendment was the first of three Reconstruction Era amendments (the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth) that eliminated slavery, guaranteed due process, equal protection and voting rights to all Americans.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
Why does the text not speak of Arabs. Turks, or East Indians, for that matter?
March 1660/1-ACT XXII. English running away with negroes.
BEE itt enacted That in case any English servant shall run away in company with any negroes who are incapable of makeing satisfaction by addition of time, Bee it enacted that the English so running away in company with them shall serve for the time of the said negroes absence as they are to do for their owne by a former act.
Bibliographic Information
Source: Hening, ed., The Statutes at Large, vol. 2,
...and in case any English servant shall run away in company of any negroes who are incapable of making satisfaction by addition of a time, it is enacted that the English soe running away in the company with them shall at the time of service to their owne masters expired, serve the masters of the said negroes for their absence soe ...and if the negroes be lost or dye in such time of their being run away, the christian servants in company with them shall by proportion among them, either pay fower thousand five hundred pounds of tobacco and caske or fower yeares service for every negroe soe lost or dead.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
Why was this Act implemented for AA and abolished for AA? Why doesn't it speak of East Indians etc...
COLUMBIA COMMEMORATES THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION
By James Vescovi and Rebecca Thomas
In 1950, the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated segregation in state law schools with the ruling in Sweatt v. Painter. While many U.S. law schools, including Columbia, had allowed black student enrollment decades earlier, state-imposed racial segregation in public and secondary schools was a fact of life in much of the nation.
That same year, the NAACP's Legal Defense and Educational Fund took on five seminal cases that would come to be known as the School Segregation cases and all of which have become known as Brown vs. Board of Education. This year marks the 50th anniversary of the 1954 decision that declared the doctrine of "separate but equal" unconstitutional, led to an expansion in educational, economic, and political opportunities for African-Americans, and altered the expectations of how the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution could change American social structure.
This special section highlights this landmark Supreme Court case, its historical connection to Columbia Law School, and describes a series of Law School events that commemorated the case, studied its effects, and addressed the future of race in America.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: LOOOOOOOL!!!!
Folks, the boy is now backtracking in defeat.
Where were those groups you triumph with.....why did they not suffer under this Act?
Syllabus
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
347 U.S. 483
Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka
APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF KANSAS
No. 1. Argued: Argued December 9, 1952Reargued December 8, 1953 --- Decided: Decided May 17, 1954 Segregation of white and Negro children in the public schools of a State solely on the basis of race, pursuant to state laws permitting or requiring such segregation, denies to Negro children the equal protection of the laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment -- even though the physical facilities and other "tangible" factors of white and Negro schools may be equal. Pp. 486-496.(a) The history of the Fourteenth Amendment is inconclusive as to its intended effect on public education. Pp. 489-490.(b) The question presented in these cases must be determined not on the basis of conditions existing when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, but in the light of the full development of public education and its present place in American life throughout the Nation. Pp. 492-493.(c) Where a State has undertaken to provide an opportunity for an education in its public schools, such an opportunity is a right which must be made available to all on equal terms. P. 493.(d) Segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race deprives children of the minority group of equal educational opportunities, even though the physical facilities and other "tangible" factors may be equal. Pp. 493-494.(e) The "separate but equal" doctrine adopted in Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, has no place in the field of public education. P. 495.(f) The cases are restored to the docket for further argument on specified questions relating to the forms of the decrees. Pp. 495-496.
In other words, Arrogantly. Your little theory holds no water.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Man of Might
You're using a steam roller to swat a fly.
Argyle = Angus; Scottish bull, has no horns ____________ in other words a witless cow
Angus has never got this much undeserved play his whole six years at ES than he has these past two weeks.
So why catapult a relatively ignored troller into the limelight by taking him so seriously?
Trust me, Angus has no readership here despite the way he uses "folks" and "people" to address this forum he has absolutely no fan base here.
Remember, after a while when an intelligent person continuously debates with a fool the distinction begins to blur as to who is who.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
The problem with Ish Gebor is he posts other peoples opinions and racial dogmas to support his own anti-certain Africans racial dogma and ideology.
I on the other hand have defeated him resoundly with undisputable historical facts.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Does the Jim Crow law also speak of Arabs, Turks and especially East Indians,....etc...? Maybe you can provide that info, since I am not aware this.
I didn't say anything about Jim Crow. My posts have simply proved to you that
1. There was no phenotype for slaves
and
2. Slaves came from other places other than his fantasy "west" Africa (which he is afraid to define).
Your little flimsy Jim Crow website does not negate the historically documented facts I have posted.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Does the Jim Crow law also speak of Arabs, Turks and especially East Indians,....etc...? Maybe you can provide that info, since I am not aware this.
What are you trying to say that there was no discrimination in the U.S. against anyone else other than AAs?
Is that what you are trying to say?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has noticed this, so I will ask on everyone's behalf.
Do you get a hard-on off the thought of "Negro" suffering? It certainly seems as such.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor ran off after I exposed his sick pathology.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Oh noo! To the anguished one, the Holocaust and any millions or so Jews whatever the exact number never happened and was all a lie concocted by the 'Elders of Zion'. LMAO Oh and Israel is an apartheid state.
Bring one evidence of a gassed Jew.
The debate is always open Mary. You can have a try at it Mary. Maybe you'll be better at it than Ausarianstein. Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Okay let's refrain from holocaust talk. This is a subject that has no purpose on Egyptsearch. This thread is also not intended for such talk so I ask every part involved to please stop.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
No purpose on Egyptsearch? But asking why "Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization" does? Come Ausar this is what we are talking about.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
You are correct but the holocaust discussion seems to bring out the worst in the posters here. I have nothing against discussing it but all civility spirals out of control and people cannot debate in a civil manner.
I am just trying to make sure everything is run smoothly.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Does the Jim Crow law also speak of Arabs, Turks and especially East Indians,....etc...? Maybe you can provide that info, since I am not aware this.
I didn't say anything about Jim Crow. My posts have simply proved to you that
1. There was no phenotype for slaves
and
2. Slaves came from other places other than his fantasy "west" Africa (which he is afraid to define).
Your little flimsy Jim Crow website does not negate the historically documented facts I have posted.
Retard, I have shown that the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was for African based solely. And that in the North of Amrica the JimCrow law and Brown vs the Board were an extension of slavery.
You have nothing but a small assumsion.
Plus there is a study indicating that those prints, indicating them as false, they do not hold the original sign of the East Indian Company. They were made by a small company at a later time. Other than that you have nothing to backup your claims.
Plus this "so called little website" is actually:
A new educator's site also sponsored by New York Life is now online. THE HISTORY OF THE SUPREME COURT site can be found at www.historyofsupremecourt.org. Created by a collaboration of classroom teachers, historians, and legal scholars, the site presents the history of America's highest court within a series of broad themes drawn from the social studies curriculum. Examples include 'The Court and Gender', 'The Court and Young People', and 'The Court Today', which tracks the present changing Court in real time and focuses on the issues now under consideration.
The series will air during the 2006-2007 broadcast season.
Encyclopedia: Structured around the thematic Historical Overview in the History section, teachers and students can find more information on terms, people, and events mentioned in the main text. This encyclopedia will continue to grow as more content is added.
National Park Service Online Teaching Resources: The National Park service offers many educational materials for teachers on the topic of Jim Crow. Our teachers have combed the NPS web site and have organized the Jim Crow related historic sites, lessons, and materials for easy access.
National Archives and Records Administration: The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) is an independent federal agency responsible for preserving and making available the permanently valuable records of the Federal government. The agency's 33 facilities hold about 21.5 million cubic feet of original textual materials--that's more than 5 billion pieces of paper from the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the federal government. The National Archives multimedia collections include nearly 300,000 reels of motion picture film, more than 15 million maps, charts, architectural drawings and aerial photographs, more than 200,000 sound and video recordings, nearly 14 million still pictures and posters, and over 100,000 electronic records files. Many of these records relate to the history of Jim Crow.
Can you say the same about your webpages and blogs? Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has noticed this, so I will ask on everyone's behalf.
Do you get a hard-on off the thought of "Negro" suffering? It certainly seems as such.
You are brave to write shiit behind your lil' computer.
Plus, you have shown people that you are close to retarded.
This is why you haven't backed up any of your claims, other than assumptions and false claims....it all simply doesn't exist, that's why!
And all of your claims have been whipped away. By valid sources.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor ran off after I exposed his sick pathology.
Sick pathology?
I suggest you start writing to all the sources I have linked and tell them this.
The one who is suffering from this sick pathology is you.
Claiming Turks, Arabs, East Indians were taken tom the Americas as slaves during the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. Yet when people ask for historical accounts we see non.
Are you now also going to ignore and reject the many rapings of Native American and African women, claiming that it was actually Turkish, Arab and what not.....women who fell victim for this hideous crime.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote: Does the Jim Crow law also speak of Arabs, Turks and especially East Indians,....etc...? Maybe you can provide that info, since I am not aware this.
What are you trying to say that there was no discrimination in the U.S. against anyone else other than AAs?
Is that what you are trying to say?
Show me discriminatory Acts/ Laws implemented for the groups you have mentioned. Show me where they were stagnated in their achievements during the course of history...
Show me, like I have shown you with valid sources, by law. That the so called enslaved Turks, Arabs East Indians etc..?have suffered under these kind of extreme laws or similar laws/ acts. Use peer reviewed valid sources...
And if you had commonsense, you would have seen by now that those acts/laws were setup, mandated, because they were against the abolishment of slavery and they needed to extend this. As was the case in Latin America and the Caribbean.
The problem here with you is that you lack historical accounts. This is why you keep spinning in little circles. While I keep adding more and more info to debunk you rubbish claims.
But of course since you can't backup your claim you will play the hide and seek and seek game as usually.
And this is what you'll get when you keep raping long enough:
Mulatto;
Quadroon;
Octoroon;
Terceron;
Mustee.
It's called the one drop rule. And I suggest you read about Mendels Law. Hence the word law!
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
There were many East Indian slaves in the United States.
Check Out my video on the relationship between East Indians and Afro-Americans
^Built by foreigners.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: There were many East Indian slaves in the United States.
Check Out my video on the relationship between East Indians and Afro-Americans
What is many?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Clyde, your dealing with a sick racial idealog .
LOOL!
This Ish Gebor character doesn't care about facts or evidence. He cares about his psychological well being. Which is purely emotional race fantasy.
Thanks however for giving him an Argyle style scholarly beatdown.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks isn't this Ish Gebor a fruitcake.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor?
Are you one of "The Explorers" sock puppets. Because I have applied the same beatdowns on the same issue to many of them.
argyle posts rumors from books with no documentation or hard evidence and calls it "scholarly" No primary sources what an amateur.
argyle also believes that slaves that were taken to America, the ones from West Africa were not in the millions, only in the thousands.
This he calls "scholarly", not having a clue about what "scholarly"means
PTSS denial
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks you may wonder why I don't respond to the poster above. It's because I don't respond to "no life race loons".
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor?
Are you one of "The Explorers" sock puppets. Because I have applied the same beatdowns on the same issue to many of them.
argyle posts rumors from books with no documentation or hard evidence and calls it "scholarly" No primary sources what an amateur.
argyle also believes that slaves that were taken to America, the ones from West Africa were not in the millions, only in the thousands.
This he calls "scholarly", not having a clue about what "scholarly"means
PTSS denial
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Clyde, your dealing with a sick racial idealog .
LOOL!
This Ish Gebor character doesn't care about facts or evidence. He cares about his psychological well being. Which is purely emotional race fantasy.
Thanks however for giving him an Argyle style scholarly beatdown.
Your source has been be dunked MAJORLY!
Those documents are false, made only recent in time by a small company. Plus the don't have the certification of the British East Indian Company. This where you fail. With your hoax theory.
And on that note, I like to ask you once again....are my sources not valid?
You haven't responded to non of them, simple because you can't. So you resort to personal insults, in hopes no one will detect you rubbish and incomprehension. You are good for laughing material. And I could post plenty more of some fine details...but this is not necessary. Since the sources I have provided are already overwhelming.
Hope you had I nice shabbat. Impostor Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks you may wonder why I don't respond to the poster above. It's because I don't respond to "no life race loons".
Everybody understands that you can't.
Turd, you have failed in attempting to alter history. Proven by peer reviewed scholarship! For everybody to witness from direct sources.
Nice try... Posted by Classic Doctor (Member # 6729) on :
It's a wrap, well from this end anyway. The ball's in your court. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Classic Doctor: It's a wrap, well from this end anyway. The ball's in your court.
One more ally oop, slam-dunk!!!
On a group from the Mideast, this is what I found....So let's call this another debunk!
Project: Lebanese in Suriname
Abstract,
Also in Suriname, a (small) group of Lebanese is present. Aim of the research is to line out the migration to and functioning within the Surinamese society. The first Lebanese arrived in the nineties of the last century, and until now each decade some Lebanese are entering the country . Within Lebanon they originate from a specific region, even a small (agrarian based) village (Bazaoun). Within Suriname they entered the textile trade that they dominate at present. Prof. De Bruijne did his first research on the Lebanese in Suriname in the sixties. The actual research intends not only to compare the present-day position of this group with that of the sixties, but new historical data make it also possible to portray a more detailed analysis of the history of the migration in the beginnings of this century.
Period 01/1998 - 06/2006 NOD number OND1293697 Status completed Related organisations
Secretariat: Amsterdam School for Social Science Research - AISSR (UvA) Related persons Project leader: Prof.dr. G.A. de Bruijne Classification A87000 : political relations and international relations C20000 : development studies
The story of the Lebanese in Jamaica begins towards the end of the nineteenth century. Unlike their fellow immigrants from China and India who had begun arriving in Jamaica in the mid-19th century, the Lebanese did not land on the island as indentured labourers. They, like the Jews that had come centuries before, arrived by their own free will, albeit fleeing religious persecution....
There are a few theories put forth as to why Jamaica was chosen as a destination. Nellie Ammar, the daughter of one of the earliest Lebanese immigrants and matriarch of the well-known Ammar retail family, collected stories from many of her relatives and friends prior to her own passing in the late 1990s. In an article for the Jamaica Journal she referenced her father who explained that for many who left the Middle East in the 1860s and 1870s, Britain was seen as the country of freedom. America was still emerging from the throes of its own bloody civil war. Therefore, according to him, the earliest Lebanese/Syrian immigrants seemed to have decided to seek the protection of the British Flag wherever they could and Jamaica fell into that category....
In addition, stories recount that many Lebanese/Syrians first heard of Jamaica as a result of the Great Exhibition of 1891. The Exhibition held on the grounds of what is now Wolmer's Schools drew over 300,000 visitors from around the world including some from the Middle East....
The last group of immigrants to venture to colonial Trinidad originated in the region previously known as Greater Syria, which comprises of present day Iraq, Syria, Palestine and Lebanon. Many of the Lebanese hailed from the villages of Buhandoun and Amyoun while the Syrians came from villages in the ‘Valley of the Christians.’ These Arabs emigrated to the Caribbean from as early as 1904 in an attempt to escape religious persecution and economic hardship in their native countries.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks you may wonder why I don't respond to the poster above. It's because I don't respond to "no life race loons".
I guess all this isn't true as well, but merely my fantasy?
And in fact there is more...just sayin'!
Now, don't get me wrong. Nowhere did I write or try to claim that Asians didn't suffer under the brutality of colonization. But taken to the Americas as enslaved people, stripped of their knowledge wisdom and understanding. That is/ was not the case. Asians however did suffer tremendously on their own mainland. That I do acknowledge. Also the Arab world suffered to some degree.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
For those who are interested, here is the national Dutch VOC archive.
Find 'VOC' or Dutch East India Company personnel (1700-1794)
The Hague, 23 February 2009
The ship's pay-ledgers form the basis of the personnel-administration of the 'VOC' or Dutch East India Company. For each departing ship all employees sailing with her were registered, amounting to some 655.000 persons over the period 1700-1794.
People, Ish Gebor is another one of "The Explorer's" aka "MA DICK's" sock puppets.
I recognize the content and posting style from previous intellectual thrashings I've administered to each of them.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
^Go and clean your acne riddled ass. Flies are circling it. Your ass is the center of a solar system of flies.
Imagine if you had as much talent and balls to actually face me --mano a mano--in debate for the first time ever in ES history, as you do in tagging along my tail every thread, hoping to get your mouth full of you know what, you might actually start to feel good about yourself and not trying to prostitute yourself before males on internet.
Spiralman has taken cover, upon being pressed on his rashly made comment on a photo.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, Ish Gebor is another one of "The Explorer's" aka "MA DICK's" sock puppets.
I recognize the content and posting style from previous intellectual thrashings I've administered to each of them.
And as usual we see no response to the questions I have addressed. Merely bogus rantings.
It was indeed overwheling. This is why the clown can't respond to the sources I have posted. This is getting funny!
Bye, dimwit!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, Ish Gebor is another one of "The Explorer's" aka "MA DICK's" sock puppets.
I recognize the content and posting style from previous intellectual thrashings I've administered to each of them.
And as usual we see no response to the questions I have addressed. Merely bogus rantings.
It was indeed overwhelming. This is why the clown can't respond to the sources I have posted. This is getting funny! The clown is even claiming that all the sources I have posted aren't credible.
You indeed prove yourself to be a retard. Time and time again! Always into altering history!
The Emancipation of Isaac & Rosa | 1863.
Caption: Isaac and Rosa, emancipated slave children from the free schools of Louisiana. Photographed by Kimball, 477 Broadway, NY. 1863.
The two (ages 8 and 6) were part of a group of eight former slaves from New Orleans (five children and three adults) sent to the North on a publicity tour to (1) raise money for schools that served former slaves run by abolitionist groups after the Union Army occupied much of Louisiana in 1863, and (2) to arouse the sympathy of countrymen who were preoccupied by war, and more often than not ambivalent on the issue of African-American slavery. One of the major reasons for the great success of this campaign was that four of the children were of mixed race.....but looked white (due to rape of African descent women by white men). So much so that the Harper's Weekly ran a story on them titled" "Emancipated Slaves: White and Colored."
These portraits were produced in the format of cartes de visite (CDVs), albumen prints the size of a calling card, and sold for 25 cents each.
Bye, dimwit!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, Ish Gebor is another one of "The Explorer's" aka "MA DICK's" sock puppets.
I recognize the content and posting style from previous intellectual thrashings I've administered to each of them.
Let's get to the nitty gritty!
Directly from the sources: VOC Database, the National Dutch archive!
"Zo ontstond gaandeweg een grootscheepse immigratie van contractarbeiders. Het ging hier achtereenvolgens om Chinezen (vanaf 1853), Brits Indiers (1873) en Javanen (vanaf 1890)."
Translation:
Gradually emerged as a major immigration of contract laborers. These were successively Chinese (from 1853), East Indians (1873) and Javanese (from 1890).
Folks, I will reply to this retard to show those of you who are slow what either lunacy is or someone playing a diversionary tactic.
If you look at his reponses it is like talking to someone about tax accounting and his reply is Harry's Burger Shack is having a sale.
LOOOL! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
People, notice also how this Ish Gebor thinks he knows more than what scholarly South Asians and Arab Americans have said themselves.
He doesn't actually know more, he just has a sick pathological ideology. That he is flailing about in frustration because I have destroyed it.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor wrote:
quote:
Folks this boy is one of those "rape freaks".
No wonder his posts resemble that of a madman.
Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
I haven't taken cover. I avoid debating you because you are clearly an ill mannered and pathological person.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks you may wonder why I don't respond to the poster above. It's because I don't respond to "no life race loons".
sissy
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
I don't know man, some of the features look similar to Ashanti Architecture. Plus as far as I can tell Europeans only built forts, is there anything that says they were active in Public works for Africans??
I don't know it can go both ways, BTW. Have you seen the Ashanti Architecture??
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, notice also how this Ish Gebor thinks he knows more than what scholarly South Asians and Arab Americans have said themselves.
He doesn't actually know more, he just has a sick pathological ideology. That he is flailing about in frustration because I have destroyed it.
And still no respons to the valid academic peer reviewed sources I have provided!.
Because the clown can't!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote:
Folks, I will reply to this retard to show those of you who are slow what either lunacy is or someone playing a diversionary tactic.
If you look at his reponses it is like talking to someone about tax accounting and his reply is Harry's Burger Shack is having a sale.
LOOOL! : )
Imbecile, you can't handle the sources I have provided, you can't debunk them. So you play pitty potty, childish rubbish!
You and your ill mannered made up nonsense!
You so called replied to me, but did not address the sources once.
Tell aren't they valid? Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks you may wonder why I don't respond to the poster above. It's because I don't respond to "no life race loons".
sissy
I have many weirdos in my lifespan, but this one beats them all.
How many peer reviewed academic sources does one need before it sinks in?
Only 10% of enslaved Africans was brought to the North of America. The remaining 90% was spread over Latin America and the Caribbean. The groups he clings on to weren't there during that time and certainly not as enslaved people. They came afterwards as free labors. This was shown case after case. By valid sources! His theory is good for a saturday night standup comedian show. But to take seriously, not that!
Next he is going to claim the Maroons actually were Turks, East Indians etc...
I wonder why "they" haven't responded to any of the primary sources, "they" claim aren't correct. Yet some hoax theory should be believed?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor wrote:
quote:
Folks this boy is one of those "rape freaks".
No wonder his posts resemble that of a madman.
See, I knew it beforehand that he would ignore and try to dismiss the history of rape of African and Native American women.
And as usually we can see attempts to they to twist and alter it!
This sick racist is predictable.
You like to talk about slavery all day. But when we get down to the actual facts of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade....they become to harsh. So you become childish and start to act stupid. How typical!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
Not too long ago most of Europe use to live in the caves and forests of Europe. Remember that one! Say it's not true!
Next, it was you who made that claim, so it is up to you to provide evidence.
It's always the same story with eurocentrism!
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
Built Heritage
Architectural monuments in Africa have long been neglected, not only in the discussions about preservation but also physically. The last few decades however, starting from the sixties and seventies, the architectural treasures of this continent have more and more attracted western architects and researchers. At the Faculty of Architecture at the Delft University of Technology it was especially the Forum movement, with architects such as Aldo van Eyck and Herman Haan, which inspired many students and gave the debate about African Architecture an extra whim.
Nowadays, most of the monumental built environment in Africa has been recognized as such. The importance of the recognition, validation and preservation of cultural heritage knows however many difficulties. Especially in a country like Mali, known for its rich cultural past and present, the diversity of attentions fields (archaeology, anthropology, architecture, music) creates a huge problem in how to make choices, how to create sustainable structures etc. The methods of labelling cultural heritage generate their own dynamics and problems.
The most prestigious label is of course the World Heritage List of UNESCO. The preservation of a World Monument however is not so easy as it seems and one can often wander if this labelling actually provides a sustainable framework for conservation. The impact of this label on the local cultural perspective of the monument often exceeds the original, traditional perception of the building structures as a living part of everyday society.
International conservation rules (for instance Charter of Venice) provide a fairly workable set of operational tools in regard to a conservation project. However, the local building traditions, the traditional way of modifying and using houses and the impact of modern western society often are in conflict with these international standards.
Therefore, restoration and conservation of a modern historic city has to be seen in the framework of the development of the historical structures, the impact of western society and possible future growth. New city developments, electricity, sewerage systems, motorized transports, car parking, plastic pollution; these are just e few of the ingredients of the conflict between modern life and historical city structures. A new approach has to be defined, to reconsider the system of monumental labelling and its instruments to conserve and preserve.
Djenné, a well known UNESCO World Monument, is a city which faces all of these problems. The case of its restoration can be used in the research for new restoration concepts and tools. Satellite cases such as Asmara and Zanzibar can be helpful to redefining international standards.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
You commented on the topic as though you were relying on hard data; now, you are essentially telling us it is something that just randomly popped into your head out of ignorance. This sort of brain exercise is traditionally expected of unsophisticated low life forms, not human beings.
quote: I haven't taken cover. I avoid debating you because you are clearly an ill mannered and pathological person.
You are taking cover even now. You behave like a laboratory baboon, whose daily routine constitutes picking lice from his hair; that is not stopping me from holding you to account for you claims, is it?
If your fantasy-inspired comment was rooted on fact, we would have had word on the hard data already, instead of this conversation.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Ish Gebor,
I haven't been following the whole thing here but argyle could be technically right on the point that there may have been some slaves brought to America that weren't West Africans, some who were North Africans, East, some non-African Arabs perhaps although he has hearsay with no hard evidence or record.
And he has no sense of proportion about it. If someone says dogs have four legs and you find a few rare freak dogs that have three legs argyle says you are a liar or a "dogist leg loon".
Let's give argyle his point, yes there may have been .01% that were not such and such and then move on.
You'll also notice that when argyle tries to make a point about slavery all of the sudden he doesn't specify what time period of slavery in the statement. So instead of talking about the Trans Atlantic Slave trade it could be any point or location in history where slavery was practiced. That's a little tactic of his.
Of course someone can make a blanket statement that there is no one phenotype for slavery in general. -in the hwqole of history
argyle thinks he's a genius for making this obvious point-administering beatdowns with a wet noodle
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by spiralbrains:
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
You commented on the topic as though you were relying on hard data; now, you are essentially telling us it is something that just randomly popped into your head out of ignorance. This sort of brain exercise is traditionally expected of unsophisticated low life forms, not human beings.
quote: I haven't taken cover. I avoid debating you because you are clearly an ill mannered and pathological person.
You are taking cover even now. You behave like a laboratory baboon, whose daily routine constitutes picking lice from his hair; that is not stopping me from holding you to account for you claims, is it?
If your fantasy-inspired comment was rooted on fact, we would have had word on the hard data already, instead of this conversation.
Clearly Spiralbrains is nothing more than a monkey who hides behind false pretenses of intellectualism just to throw his poop at black people and their African heritage.
His ignorance on such heritage is merely his problem and nobody else.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
...
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
His ignorance on such heritage is merely his problem and nobody else.
That's funny, although I think that image actually makes spiralman look good.
Spiralman says things out of impulse and self-emotional appeal, instead of thinking first. A simple reading on Akan architecture and towns would have been a warning against speaking before thinking. The pre-colonial Akhan were known for their sophisticated city layouts...
Recap:
On May 15, 1817 the Englishman Thomas Bowdich entered Kumasi. He remained there for several months, was impressed and on his return to England wrote a book, Mission from Cape Coast Castle to Ashantee, which was disbelieved as it **contradicted** prevailing prejudices.
Spiralman stamp out ignorance, and get schooled: Before the ruins... - ES link
More comprehensive look here: Before the Ruins - blog link
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I'm telling you he cant! His very ego depends on the lie of black inferiority; therefore, he will deny any and all knowledge refuting that lie. A perfect example is his very presence on this forum for months and being witness to the tons of info we cited about who the ancient Egyptians were yet he still denies that the ancient Egyptians were black people. It's like a small child who refuses to believe that the toothfairy is not real. LOL Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: There were many East Indian slaves in the United States.
Check Out my video on the relationship between East Indians and Afro-Americans
True - I have East indian ancestry that came in from South Africa at the turn of the 19th century. I also know what plantation they were freed from. Supposedly there are more East Indian slaves mentioned in colonial newspapers than Native American ones.
Others came from Yemen and many Arabs and Berbers (the real ones) came from the Trarza Emirates of Mauritania and Sahara with the Portuguese. I will look at your video now.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: There were many East Indian slaves in the United States.
Check Out my video on the relationship between East Indians and Afro-Americans
True - I have East indian ancestry that came in from South Africa at the turn of the 19th century. I also know what plantation they were freed from. Supposedly there are more East Indian slaves mentioned in colonial newspapers than Native American ones.
Others came from Yemen and many Arabs and Berbers (the real ones) came from the Trarza Emirates of Mauritania and Sahara with the Portuguese. I will look at your video now.
I just saw your video and though i saw some things of interest I'm wondering about what you are saying about BRW originating in C group. I could swear I have read that it was originally called Black and Red Ware and that it dates long before C-group in Africa and was found in the equally Nilotic Amratian culture. I could be mistaken but C-group seems pretty late for the appearance of Dravidian speakers in India. I know several Dravidian scholars have said there are links of their culture to the Sumerians and Taman culture. I'll have to look it up.
In any case I also found it interesting the name Sembo associated with an early U.S. east Indian. That's fascinating.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: There were many East Indian slaves in the United States.
Check Out my video on the relationship between East Indians and Afro-Americans
ish - you have to be careful. There were numerous people in the U.S. especially in colonial times that were simply classified under the terminology Negroes. One of these people were the East Indians. Another of these people were in fact the Chinese. They were brought to the America's in general. It is pretty much well-documented in the case of the East Indians in colonial newspapers.
I would go to the sites of Paul Heinegg a European man who has done much work on the ancestors of "Free African Americans" - he has a section on East Indians in early "colored" families.
^ Mind you not only East Indians but East Asians as well. The term 'Kooly' though originally applied to Indian forced laborers, expanded to include southeast Asians like Vietnamese, Thai, Filipinos, and even Chinese! Thus when slavery became officially abolished, the practice went "underground" so to speak with Asians being the victims instead of Africans.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor!
You are defeated.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
dana marniche wrote: ---------------------------------- ----------------------------------
It shows you just how pathological ethnicity is to Americans. They don't teach what you posted in schools. And there is a reason for it. It screws up "Modern Racial hierarchy" propaganda and objectives.
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Spiralman, care to name this building and specify the date and by whom it was built. Not too bright, are you? You've been here long enough to know that you can't just say things without providing supporting hard data/evidence for a claim.
Why don't you do the honors? It doesn't look like something that can be built by blacks people.
Wow...you're that impressed?
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
While it is definitely not true that Africans were totally uncivilized, I cannot help but notice there is a double standard with regards to different types of "primitive" peoples. For instance, Native Americans are commonly viewed as "noble savages" living in harmony with nature, yet Africans are stereotyped as evil ooga-booga primitives, even though both Native Americans and Africans had similar technological gaps to their European conquerors. Why do we view Native Americans' alleged primitiveness more positively than that of Africans?
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^Unlike Africa, native American nations were still largely, if not completely neolithic. Metals were not used for tools or weaponry but only for ornamentation. So technically Africa was not on the same level as the Americas.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
T-Rex wrote
quote:Why do we view Native Americans' alleged primitiveness more positively than that of Africans?
Because they're no longer a threat. In the mind of the European racist the only good (fill in a pejorative for a particular non white group) is a dead (restate pejorative for particular ethnic group).
It also explains why Malcolm X hats and Tees are popular now while excoriating Rev Wright for speaking the same truths..
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: dana marniche wrote:
Don't you mean how pathologically situated skin color or "race" is, argyle?
After all they weren't doing the same thing to Huguenot and Scottish immigrants.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: While it is definitely not true that Africans were totally uncivilized, I cannot help but notice there is a double standard with regards to different types of "primitive" peoples. For instance, Native Americans are commonly viewed as "noble savages" living in harmony with nature, yet Africans are stereotyped as evil ooga-booga primitives, even though both Native Americans and Africans had similar technological gaps to their European conquerors. Why do we view Native Americans' alleged primitiveness more positively than that of Africans?
I personally think it had to do with a lot of the Westerns that were made and the fact that Africans in the media National Geographic and in American movies wre definitely portrayed in a certain naked "ooga booga" - (as you say) way until recently. Even the Roots series though well intended had an "ooga booga" quality about it rivaling some of the Tarzan movies in that respect. American Natives on the other hand are portrayed well in the late period of American movie making (although they usually didn't use real natives until recently either).
After all most Americans only think sub-Saharan Africans have never lived in anything but huts today if not in the forest without shelter - even when there are millions living in well made attractive stone houses they've been accustomed to for thousands of years or else in modern Western-style homes.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Truthcentric wrote: ------------------------------ Why do we view Native Americans' alleged primitiveness more positively than that of Africans? ------------------------------
You're the white POS. You tell us.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse:
^Unlike Africa, native American nations were still largely, if not completely neolithic. Metals were not used for tools or weaponry but only for ornamentation. So technically Africa was not on the same level as the Americas.
Truthcentric's comments highlight how ideology runs European stereotypes of Africans, no matter how many facts to the contrary they know about. Powerful medieval African economies were in fact more economically advanced than Europeans of the same era and were integrated into dominant global trade-networks that eluded Europeans. It was only after the breakdown of African (Moors) stronghold in the Iberian peninsula, and the ensuing power struggle and infighting in western Africa, that early European imperialist from the Iberian peninsula saw and took an opportunity to shift the pre-existing trade-network apparatus to their own advantage. Eventual succumbing to economic-strangling by colonialism was actually by and large responsible for any so-called "technological gaps" between many African nations and western European colonial nations in the colonial and post-colonial era rather than any pre-colonial condition.
Posted by Classic Doctor (Member # 6729) on :
^
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
You have to understand that the Eurocentric judges other cultures by European standards. All cultures that resemble Europe(Esp. during the enlightenment) are deemed as civilized. So despite Africans having advanced states and Empires duing the Middle Ages compared to North Western Europe because they don't have a "Al-hambra" or a "Forbidden City" etc, they are deemed on the same level as Native Americans.
As far as the Native American V. African thing its a rather recent fad for Americans to glamorize and uphold the Native Americans as a Noble Savage. Most 1st hand accounts by Europeans wo encountered the Native Americans did not glamorize them, but portrayed them as savages. Its now that the Native Americans are no longer a threat that they are being glamorized.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: T-Rex wrote
quote:Why do we view Native Americans' alleged primitiveness more positively than that of Africans?
Because they're no longer a threat. In the mind of the European racist the only good (fill in a pejorative for a particular non white group) is a dead (restate pejorative for particular ethnic group).
It also explains why Malcolm X hats and Tees are popular now while excoriating Rev Wright for speaking the same truths..
LOL, I did'nt read your comment but I said the same thing more or less, its because the Native Americans are an impoverished, unheard, unseen group and no longer a threat the Europeans suddly admire them, back when the Cherokee, Lakota etc. were scalping their domes, you can bet your bottom Dollar whites were not praising the Natives as Noble"
On a side note its funny how the White Conservatives broke their necks trying to defame and call Rev. White anti-american but they were REAL Silent on the crazed white Preacher who told his congregation to pray that the children and wife President of the U.S.A lose their father...Amazing at the Hypocrisy.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
2 Reasons:
1) The invader whites slaughtered off the vast majority of the indigenous Americans to leave all that land and resources free for them, so they could afford to partially glorify the people they murdered after death. The so-called "Indian Wars" based on the slogan "A good Injun is a dead Injun" also served as the backdrop for all those films about so-called "Indian bravery"--hence the names for the resisters was "Indian Brave". But the game was always won by murderous whites who always ended up being "heoric".
2) Africans were held captive in the U.S. at the time--and still are[psychologically] to certain extent--so there had to be constant justification of their servile status.
3)The so-called "Indians" were seen by the whites as being "closer" phenotypically to themselves than Africans. So there was a bit more identification. Cf.: Bartolomo de Las Casas and his recommendation that Africans replace the Indians as slaves--after 100 years of enslavement by the Spaniards.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
Error above: 3 reasons--not 2.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
The Explorer wrote:
quote:Truthcentric's comments highlight how ideology runs European stereotypes of Africans, no matter how many facts to the contrary they know about. Powerful medieval African economies were in fact more economically advanced than Europeans of the same era and were integrated into dominant global trade-networks that eluded Europeans. It was only after the breakdown of African (Moors) stronghold in the Iberian peninsula, and the ensuing power struggle and infighting in western Africa, that early European imperialist from the Iberian peninsula saw and took an opportunity to shift the pre-existing trade-network apparatus to their own advantage. Eventual succumbing to economic-strangling by colonialism was actually by and large responsible for any so-called "technological gaps" between many African nations and western European colonial nations in the colonial and post-colonial era rather than any pre-colonial condition.
This is absolutely correct. The standard of living of the average African at the dawn of the colonial period was in all likelihood much higher than that of the typical European of the time.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Jari wrote:
quote:White anti-american but they were REAL Silent on the crazed white Preacher who told his congregation to pray that the children and wife President of the U.S.A lose their father...Amazing at the Hypocrisy.
Wow! A "man of god" actually said this? I didn't know about this incident but it does not surprise me.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Jari wrote:
quote:White anti-american but they were REAL Silent on the crazed white Preacher who told his congregation to pray that the children and wife President of the U.S.A lose their father...Amazing at the Hypocrisy.
Wow! A "man of god" actually said this? I didn't know about this incident but it does not surprise me.
Im suprised you never heard of it, but It goes to show you how the conservative media avoided the subject like the plague.
Interesting that the comments from ausar and alTakuri were for people to ignore the historical truth that I posted.
ausar, alTakuri what are your thoughts on slavery from regions outside of "west" Africa? If you have none? Why?
Also fascinating is how Ish Gebor has disappeared once he could not openly cling to his racialist loonery without it being seen as obvious race fantasy.
Posted by L' (Member # 18238) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Interesting that the comments from ausar and alTakuri were for people to ignore the historical truth that I posted.
ausar, alTakuri what are your thoughts on slavery from regions outside of "west" Africa? If you have none?
Also fascinating is how Ish Gebor has disappeared once he could not openly cling to his racialist loonery without it being seen as obvious race fantasy.
arglye, I am curious; do you intentionally act like a buffoon? Or is this just who you are?
This has been an intellectual thrashing brought to you by ME
Why don't you address your own thread and everything stated herein?!
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
My original post was never answered, but i'll narrow it down to a simple challenge -
Find an ancient black philosopher, inventor, poet, scientist etc. In fact find one, let's say from ancient times to the 15th century AD.
If you can do that i'll admit i am wrong.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Poet-
Antar-7th Century
Antarah was born in Najd (the northern Arabian Peninsula) , He was the son of Shaddād, a well respected member of the Arabian tribe of Banu Abs, his mother was named Zabaibah, an Ethiopian woman, whom Shaddad had enslaved after a tribal war. The tribe neglected Antara at first, and he grew up in servitude. Although it was fairly obvious that Shaddad was his father, his dark skin made it easier to classify him among the slaves. However Antara claimed attention and respect for himself by his remarkable personal qualities and courage in battle, excelling as an accomplished poet and a mighty warrior. When the tribe needed his assistance to fend off another tribe in battle, Shaddād acknowledged Antara as his son, and granted him freedom.
Antarah fell in love with his cousin Abla, and sought to marry her despite his status as a slave. To secure allowance to marry, Antarah had to face challenges including getting a special kind of camel from the northern Arabian kingdom of al-No'man Ibn al-Munthir Ibn Ma' al-Sama'.
Antarah took part in the great war between the related tribes of Abs and Dhubyān, which began over a contest of horses and was named after them the war of Dāhis and Ghabrā. He died in a fight against the tribe of Tai.
POET, SOLDIER, AND GREAT CHIVALROUS FIGURE OF THE EAST (d. A.D. 615)
THE MOST RENOWNED WARRIOR among the Greeks was Achilles the greatest poet, Homer. Antar is the Achilles and the Homer the East combined. What Roland is to the French, what Siegfried is to the Germans, what St. George is to the English, that Antar is to 335,000,000 souls of the Mohammedan world. In the literature of the East he is known as "Abul Fouaris" (the Father of Heroes).
Gottheil says, "Even in the cities of the Orient today, loungers over their cups can never weary of following the of this black son of the desert, who in his person unites the virtues of his people, magnanimity and bravery with the gift poetic speech." Few started lower in life than Antar; few, if any, have higher in the esteem and affection of those who once them. He was born of a slave mother in the midst of one of proudest of all peoples--the Bedouins, horsemen and of the desert, who pride themselves to this day on the purity their descent from Ishmael, son of Abraham and Hagar, and their famous Arabian horses. Moreover Antar was extraordinarily ugly. He was bleary-eyed, harsh-featured, and had long, drooping ears." He was also hairlipped and black. But his eyes! Ah! From them flashed "sparks of fire." His father, wealthy Shaddad, chief of the Abs tribe, ignored him completely, while his mother hated him and sent him off to mind the cattle to get him out of her sight.
But, like David of the Scriptures, Antar was destined to flash into fame. One day, when he was only fifteen, war broke out between his tribe and a neighboring one over the possession of a famous mare named Jirwet. Antar entered the battle as a common soldier; he emerged from it the hero of the day. Thanks to his skill, the enemy was signally defeated. His father, proud of him now, set him free. He became the protector of his tribe, its mainstay and leader. When other tribes reproached the Abs because they had a Negro as their chief, Antar declared that he had a sword that was ready to prove that though he was lowly born his ancestry was as good as theirs. From this point onwards his life, like that of the Seven Champions of Christendom, is so much interwoven with chivalry and romance that it reads more like fable than fact.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
- He was an Arab born to an Arabian tribe in the Arabian Peninsula, not a black african. Though apparently his mother was an Ethiopian slave, at the most that would make him a half-caste, or mixed so this doesn't count.
Face the facts, why is it in every post you always look OUTSIDE your homeland? Never do you look at your real roots in sub-sahara africa, instead you try to steal the heritage of all other races...now the Arabs? So sad.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Al-Jahiz-8th Century
Philosopher Intellect Writer
Al-Jahiz was born in Basra in 776 CE to a poor family which is believed to be of Abyssinian descent. He was the author of Arabic literature, biology, zoology, Islamic philosophy and Mutazili theology. His father died when al-Jahiz was a few months old. Despite the family’s poverty, al-Jahiz’s mother was able to send her son through the local Quranic school. He received his nickname, Jahiz, (Jahiz: projected cornea) because he had a bulging eyes. Life in Basra provided al-Jahiz with many learning opportunities even after he left school. Basra was the home of Mu’talazite, a sect of Muslim school of thought, and al-Jahiz listened to scholars at the local mosque, informally learning from some of the greatest thinkers of the time. His mastery of the Arabic language and unusual intelligence won his admittance to Mutazili school of thinkers. Al-Jahiz achieved some fame and moved to Baghdad, where he continued to work as an advisor to the Khalifa. He suffered ill health in his later part of his life and moved to Basra where he died in December of 868 CE. al-jahiz-capture
Al-Jahiz was the author of many books; Kitab al-Hayawan (The book of Animals) is one of his famous work. It is an encyclopedia of seven volumes of poetic descriptions of varieties of animals. Though, it is by no means a book of zoology, but it has description of a very keen study of animals and insects. He was the first person who studied the influence of the environment on animals and developed an early theory of evolution. Al-Jahiz considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and thus he became the first person to describe the struggle for existence. His idea on the struggle for existence is not very different from Darwin’s idea on this subject. In the Book of Animals he has summarized it like this; Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.
The above statement is so close to Darwin’s theory of evolution, made more than a thousand years before Darwin. Indeed it seems that Darwin took al-Jahiz’s idea as a base and formulated his “theory of evolution” in a more scientific way in context of nineteenth century scientific knowledge.
Al-Jahiz gave the idea of the food chain, saying all life depend on each other, even the hunting animal can become the part of food chain which he argued keeps a balance in the nature and maintains a proper ratio between the animals. He made an attempt to classify the animals in a linear series and arranged them in groups having marked similarity and then subgroups. He thus sowed the seed of scientific classification of animals.
He was also an early adherent of environmental determinism and explained how the environment can affect the physical characteristics of the inhabitants of a certain area of the world. He used his theories on natural selection and environmental factor to explain the origins of different human skin colors, particularly black skin, which he believed to be the result of the heat and humidity.
Al Jahiz is considered to be one of the most renowned and stylish writers of the Arabic literature. He is credited for establishing the rule of Arabic prose writing by collecting previously written anecdotes and giving his own instruction on the proper use of language and the importance of eloquence. He was really a naturalist, a satirist, a humorist, a theologian and a philosopher. He is believed to have written 350 books during his life span from all walks of knowledge and wisdom of his time. Most of his books have been lost only thirty have survived. His book: Kitab al Bayan wa al Tabyin which literally means (eloquence and demonstration), is one of his famous works, in which he approached various subjects, such as epiphanies, rhetorical speeches, sectarian leaders, princes, as well as giving a sardonic treatment to foolish and crazy people.
Al-Jahiz was a great man who proved that being dirt poor is no hindrance to seek higher education, even more than twelve century ago. His book Kitab al Hayawan had great influence on Muslim and European scientists like Lamark and Darwin. for the dedications ... (100 of 348 words)
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Do you consider Europeans born outside of Europe?? Antar WAS BLACK Son, No Arab will claim he was not black. Also if Im not mistaken Antar is considered along with other Black Poets as the "Black Crows" in Muslim Circles(If Im not mistaken).
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: - He was an Arab born to an Arabian tribe in the Arabian Peninsula, not a black african.
Antar was the result of Enslaved and Subjugated Rape. He was a slave and disgraced and not considered part of the Tribe. HE was not an Arab bor was respect as an Arab. He was nothing more than a Black man proving himself like the Millions of Mulatto blacks who You White Europeans Lynched, Castrated, and Harrassed.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: - Though apparently his mother was an Ethiopian slave, at the most that would make him a half-caste, or mixed so this doesn't count.
Face the facts, why is it in every post you always look OUTSIDE your homeland?
Antar is considered to be black. If Im not mistaken in Muslim Circles he along with other blacks are referred to as the "Black Crows"...again I might be mistaken.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: - Never do you look at your real roots in sub-sahara africa, instead you try to steal the heritage of all other races...now the Arabs? So sad.
Blacks are not just contained to One region in Africa. Non Sequitor. Once again Antar was the result of Rape. His father did not claim him nor did his tribe at first. Antar was not and I believe still not seen as "Arab" due to his Slave Statue and Rape origin.
You Lose, More to Come.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Imhotep-3rd Dynasty Egypt
Doctor Scientist Architect
Of the non royal population of Egypt, probably one man is known better than all others. So successful was Imhotep (Imhetep, Greek Imouthes) that he is one of the world's most famous ancients, and his name, if not his true identity, has been made even more famous by various mummy movies. Today, the world is probably much more familiar with his name than that of his principal king, Djoser. Imhotep, who's name means "the one that comes in peace". existed as a mythological figure in the minds of most scholars until the end of the nineteenth century when he was established as a real historical person.
He was the world's first named architect who built Egypt's first pyramid, is often recognized as the world's first doctor, a priest,. scribe, sage, poet, astrologer, and a vizier and chief minister, though this role is unclear, to Djoser (reigned 2630–2611 BC), the second king of Egypt's third dynasty. He may have lived under as many as four kings. An inscription on one of that kings statues gives us Imhotep's titles as the "chancellor of the king of lower Egypt", the "first one under the king", the "administrator of the great mansion", the "hereditary Noble", the "high priest of Heliopolis", the "chief sculptor", and finally the "chief carpenter".
Of the details of his life, very little has survived though numerous statues and statuettes of him have been found. Some show him as an ordinary man who is dressed in plain attire. Others show him as a sage who is seated on a chair with a roll of papyrus on his knees or under his arm. Later, his statuettes show him with a god like beard, standing, and carrying the ankh and a scepter.
Imhotep may have been born in Ankhtowë, a suburb of Memphis early in Egyptian history. However, other classical writers suggested that he was from the village of Gebelein, south of ancient Thebes. His father might have been an architect named Kanofer. His mother could have been Khreduonkh, who probably belonged to the province of Mendes, and he may have had a wife named Ronfrenofert but none of this is by any means certain. As a commoner at birth, he rose through the ranks quickly due to his genius, natural talents and dedication.
As the High Priest of Heliopolis, he would have been one of the chief priest of Lower (northern) Egypt. Even though Egypt's capital may have been located at Memphis, it is likely during this period that Heliopolis was recognized as the religious capital of Egypt.
As a builder, Imhotep is the first master architects who we know by name. He is not only credited as the first pyramid architect, who built Djoser's Step Pyramid complex at Saqqara, but he may have had a hand in the building of Sekhemkhet's unfinished pyramid, and also possibly with the establishment of the Edfu Temple, but that is not certain. The Step Pyramid remains today one of the most brilliant architecture wonders of the ancient world and is recognized as the first monumental stone structure.
Imhotep's best known writings were medical text. As a physician, Imhotep is believed to have been the author of the Edwin Smith Papyrus in which more than 90 anatomical terms and 48 injuries are described. He may have also founded a school of medicine in Memphis, a part of his cult center possibly known as "Asklepion, which remained famous for two thousand years. All of this occurred some 2,200 years before the Western Father of Medicine Hippocrates was born.
Sir William Osler tells us that Imhotep was the:
"..first figure of a physician to stand out clearly from the mists of antiquity." Imhotep diagnosed and treated over 200 diseases, 15 diseases of the abdomen, 11 of the bladder, 10 of the rectum, 29 of the eyes, and 18 of the skin, hair, nails and tongue. Imhotep treated tuberculosis, gallstones, appendicitis, gout and arthritis. He also performed surgery and practiced some dentistry. Imhotep extracted medicine from plants. He also knew the position and function of the vital organs and circulation of the blood system. The Encyclopedia Britannica says, "The evidence afforded by Egyptian and Greek texts support the view that Imhotep's reputation was very respected in early times. His prestige increased with the lapse of centuries and his temples in Greek times were the centers of medical teachings."
Along with medicine, he was also a patron of architects, knowledge and scribes. James Henry Breasted says of Imhotep:
"In priestly wisdom, in magic, in the formulation of wise proverbs; in medicine and architecture; this remarkable figure of Zoser's reign left so notable a reputation that his name was never forgotten. He was the patron spirit of the later scribes, to whom they regularly poured out a libation from the water-jug of their writing outfit before beginning their work.
Imhotep is one example of the "personality cult" of Kemet, whereby a learned sage or otherwise especially venerated person could be deified after death and become a special intercessor for the living, much as the saints of Roman Catholicism. About 100 years after his death, he was elevated as a medical demigod. In about 525, around 2,000 years after his death, he was elevated to a full god, and replaced Nefertum in the great triad at Memphis. In the Turin Canon, he was known as the "son of Ptah". Imhotep was, together with Amenhotep, the only mortal Egyptians that ever reached the position of full gods. He was also associated with Thoth, the god of wisdom, writing and learning, and with the Ibises, which was also associated with Thoth.
We are told that his main centers of worship were in the Ptolemaic temple to Hathor atf Dier el-Medina and at Karnak in Thebes, where he was worshipped in conjunction with Amenhotep-Son-of-Hapu, a sanctuary on the upper terrace of the temple at Deir el-Bahari, at Philae where a chapel of Imhotep stands immediately in front of the eastern pylon of the temple of Isis and of course, at Memphis in Lower (northern) Egypt, where a temple was erected to him near the Serapeum. At saqqara, we are told that people bought offerings to his cult center, including mummified Ibises and sometimes, clay models of diseased limbs and organs in the hope of being healed.
He was later even worshipped by the early Christians as one with Christ. The early Christians, it will be recalled, adapted to their use those pagan forms and persons whose influence through the ages had woven itself so powerfully into tradition that they could not omit them.
He was worshiped even in Greece where he was identified with their god of medicine, Aslepius. . He was honored by the Romans and the emperors Claudius and Tiberius had inscriptions praising Imhotep placed on the walls of their Egyptian temples. He even managed to find a place in Arab traditions, especially at Saqqara where his tomb is thought to be located.
Imhotep lived to a great age, apparently dying in the reign of King Huni, the last of the dynasty. His burial place has not been found but it has been speculated that it may indeed be at Saqqara, possibly in an unattested mastaba 3518.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Mulattos = blacks?
I guess then you consider someone who is half-white half-chinese to be white...
If you are mixed race, you are NO race. Hence on census forms across Europe, if you are mixed you have to tick the ''mixed'' box. You can't choose the race your parents are.
Antar was racially Arab/Black, which means his heritage was mixed. He was not Black.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Kha-18th dynasty Egypt
Royal Architect
This is a small statue of Kha, architect to the 18-Dynasty Pharoah Amenhotep III Nebmaatre (ca. 1390-1352 B.C.E.). It is made of wood, and looks now substantially like it did in antiquity: the only coloring are traces of paint inside the glyphs down the center, but it originally wore a garland of flowers around its shoulders.
This statue shows Kha to be an honored servant, rather than a nobleman. He is standing with his left foot forward, a typical pose for officials, but is not carrying any of the tokens of office usually carried by officials; instead, he has his hands empty and palms facing back in a gesture of supplication. His wig is very fine, but his clothes are a simple kilt without the elaborate pleated overshirt favored by the nobility at this time.
The statue, maybe commissioned by the Pharaoh as a sign of respect for Kha, contains a pious wish for Kha's prosperity in the afterlife, in the strip of hieroglyphs down the center of the kilt. The text wishes for him prrt nbt Hr wdHw ny imn nsw nTrw n kA ny Hry st aA xa maA-xrw Everything which comes forth upon the offering table of Amun, King of the Gods, for the ka of Great Overseer of Places, Kha, true-of-voice (i.e. justified before Osiris).
Egyptian names were meaningful words (eg. Amenhotep = Amun is satisfied). Kha's name comes from the word to appear xai to rise (said of the Sun), to appear in glory (said of a king or god). In writing, at least, it becomes a name simply by replacing the scroll determinative with a "peron" determinative. In Kha's case, images/khatut/kha, the person is holding a flail, denoting authority.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
so typical.
The ancient egyptians were not black.
Stop mucking around, do you have anything or not?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
You're failed attempt to accept Antar as black is due to your racist assertion that because of his Arab blood he was a good poet. The Arabs at this time were mainly illiterate Nomads. Antar was a hated subjugated slave whose Dark Skin was a daily reminder of his Rape Origins and inferior birth.
Modern Day Muslims and Arabs consider Antar to be black. Antar overcame his status to become a great poet. Stop with the racist tendencies and get over yourself.
Al-Jahiz is enough to prove you wrong. While you're Tin Isle ancestors were throwing Sewage into your Drinking supply and while the Greatest building your Tin Isle Ancestors created was a strawhut, and the Greatest Literature contained to Irish Monks, Al Jahiz was developing "The Book of Animals" in the 9th century, which would later insipire "Origin of the Species".
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Mulattos = blacks?
I guess then you consider someone who is half-white half-chinese to be white...
If you are mixed race, you are NO race. Hence on census forms across Europe, if you are mixed you have to tick the ''mixed'' box. You can't choose the race your parents are.
Antar was racially Arab/Black, which means his heritage was mixed. He was not Black.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by CastratedMentally: so typical.
The ancient egyptians were not black.
Then what do you call these Egyptian royals??
^ Are they white? LOL
quote:Stop mucking around, do you have anything or not?
Your thread topic question was answered on the VERY FIRST PAGE, you nitwit! The answer was YES Sub-Saharan Africans did have civilizations and lots of them for that matter. When are YOU going to stop mucking around and address this salient FACT for a change??
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
I wonder if Alwaadberry can give any further info on the "Black crows" of Arab Poetry...
The Arab Crows (أغربة العرب)are the famous Arab poets of the past who were so dark-skinned that their color resembled the color of a crow. Some of the Arab Crows lived in Pre-Islamic times and others lived during the period between Pre-Islamic times and Islamic times. Ibn Mandhour says in his book Lisan Al-Arab that the Arab Crows are Antarah, Khafaf ibn Nadba from the tribe of Sulaym, Abu Umair ibn Al-Hubaab from the tribe of Sulaym, Sulaik ibn Sulaka, Hisham ibn Uqba ibn Abi Mu'eet, Abdellah ibn Khaazim from the tribe of Sulaym, Umair ibn Abu Umair ibn Al-Hubaab from the tribe of Sulaym, Hammaam ibn Mutarraf from the tribe of Taghlib, Muntashir ibn Wahb Al-Baahili, Matar ibn Awfaa Al-Mazini, Taabbata Sharra, and Al-Shanfara. Many people today make the mistake of assuming that since these "Arab Crows" are so black-skinned, they must be descended from "Africans". For example, read what was said about Khaffaf ibn Nadba from the tribe of Sulaym:
قال خفاف بن ندبة - وهي أمه، وكانت حبشية..." "...
"Khafaf the son of Nadba - and Nadba was an Ethiopian slave-girl - said..."
This is what they say about Khafaf's mother, but the reality is his mother was a pure Arab from the tribe of Bani Al-Harith ibn Ka'ab. Ibn Sa'ad says in his book Al-Tabaqaat:
خفاف بن عمير
ابن الحارث بن شريد واسمه عمرو بن رباح بن يقظة بن عصية بن خفاف بن امرئ القيس بن بهثة بن سليم وكان شاعرا وهو الذي يقال له خفاف بن ندبة وهي أمة بها يعرف وهى ابنة الشيطان بن قنان سبية من بني الحارث بن كعب ويقال إن ندية كانت سوداء وشهد خفاف فتح مكة مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وكان معه لواء بني سليم الأخر.
"Khafaf the son of Umair the son of Al-Harith the son of Amru (Shuraid) the son of Rabbah the son of Yaqidha the son of Asiyya the son of Khafaf the son of Imr Al-Qais the son of Bahtha the son of Sulaym. He was a poet and was called Khafaf the son of Nadba and Nadba is a slave-girl and Khafaf was known by her. She (Nadba) is the daughter of Al-Shaytan the son of Qanan and she was captured from the tribe of Bani Al-Harith ibn Ka'ab. It is said that Nadba was black-skinned. Khafaf was present with the Prophet (SAWS) during the conquest of Mecca and he carried the flag of the tribe of Sulaym."
Ibn Hajar says in his book Al-Isaaba Fi Tamyeez Al-Sahaaba:
خفاف بن عمير بن الحارث بن الشريد
بن رياح بن يقظة بن عصية بن خفاف بن امرئ القيس بن بهثة بن سليم وهو المعروف بابن ندبة بنون وهي أمه قال بن الكلبي شهد الفتح وكان معه لواء بني سليم وكان شاعرًا مشهورا وقال الأصمعي شهد حنينًا وثبت على إسلامه في الردة وبقي إلى زمن عمر وقال أبو عبيدة أغار الحارث بن الشريد يعني جد خفاف هذا على بني الحارث بن كعب فسبي ندبة فوهبها لابنه عمير فولدت له خفافا فنسب إليها قال المرزباني هي ندبة بنت أبان بن شيطان بن قنان بن سلمة.
Khafaf the son of Umair the son of Al-Harith the son of Shuraid the son of Rabbah the son of Yaqidha the son of Asiyya the son of Khafaf the son of Imr Al-Qais the son of Bahtha the son of Sulaym. He was a famous poet. Al-Asma'ee said that he was present at the battle of Hunain and that he remained a Muslim during period of apostasy and he was still alive during the reign of Umar. Abu Ubayda said that Al-Harith the son of Shuraid - the grandfather of Khafaf - raided the tribe of Bani Al-Harith ibn Ka'ab and captured Nadba and gave her to his son Umair and she gave birth to Khafaf through Umair and Khafaf was called the son of Nadba. Al-Mirzbaani says that she is Nadba the daughter of Abaan the son of Al-Shaytan the son of Qanan the son of Salama. Bani Al-Harith ibn Ka'ab is a large Arab tribe and Al-Harith ibn Ka'ab is the son of Amru the son of 'Illa the son of Khalid the son of Midhhaj.
Read what is said about another Arab Crow - Shanfara:
ويعني اسمه (غليظ الشفاه ) ، ويدل أن دماء حبشية كانت تجري فيه
"And his name means 'thick-lipped', which shows that Ethiopian blood ran through his veins."
Read what another person said is a reason that he hopes that Al-Shanfara is not from the Arab tribe of Shihr:
انه كان اسودا ونحن جميعا لآدم ولا فضل لاحد على احد الا بالتقوى ولكنه كان كافرا وفوق هذا من اصول افريقية اما من ناحية الاب او الام والعرب ليس فيهم السواد الوارد في الشنفرى
"...Because he (Al-Shanfara) was black-skinned - we are all from Adam and no one is any better than the next except according to piety - but he was an unbeliever and to make matters worse, he was of African origin either from his father or from his mother and the Arabs are not black-skinned like Al-Shanfara was described".
This is what they say about Al-Shanfara, but the truth of the matter is that his father was from the pure Arab tribe of Al-Azd and his mother was from the pure Arab tribe of Fahm. Read what Al-Shanfara said about himself:
"انا من خيار الحجر بيتاً ومنصباً ** وامي ابنة الاحرار لو تعرفينها"
"I am from the best of the clan of Hujr (a clan of the tribe of Al-Azd) in origin and status. And my mother is the daughter of the freemen - if you only knew her!"
There is also the Arab Crow Taabbata Sharra. His real name is Thaabi the son of Jaabir the son of Sufyan the son of 'Umaythil the son of 'Udayy the son of Ka'ab the son of Hazin the son of Tamim the son of Sa'ad the son of Fahm the son of Amru the son of Qais 'Ailan the son of Mudar the son of Nizaar. His mother - Umayma - was from the Bani Qain branch of the Arab tribe of Fahm the son of Amru the son of Qais 'Ailan the son of Mudar the son of Nizaar.
As you can see, Taabbata Sharra, too, was a pure Arab from the pure Arab tribe of Fahm.
Not all the Crows were Africans but does it matter, these people were Jet black In color, probably Darker than many Africans. I don't see how it matters if these people were Arabs or Africans??
In my opinion Arabs became Literate AFTER AFRICANS so its racist to assume that Arabs are somehow more civilized than Africans.
Seems Alwaad and Dana are onto something some of the "Crows" were pure Arabs.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I wonder if the "Crows of the Arabs" goes back to the time of early Hebrew literature. The `or*biym feeders of Eliyahu, were they birds or Jordanian Arabs as black as ravens? Note the Hebrew root עֹרֵב Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Good insight and considering that the crows predate the Prophet Muhammed, at least Antar, their legacy might go back further when Arabs were more Oral rather than literate.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I wonder if the "Crows of the Arabs" goes back to the time of early Hebrew literature. The `or*biym feeders of Eliyahu, were they birds or Jordanian Arabs as black as ravens? Note the Hebrew root עֹרֵב
I was just going to mention that theory until you did. I first read about it in David Goldenberg's book The Curse of Ham, where he claims "crow" could have been a poetic euphemism for the black natives of area you speak of.
LOL This reminds me, if the Arab poet Antar was described and depicted as so black, how could he possibly be "mulatto"?? But I guess Castrated-Mind has scurried away from this thread like the roach he is and seek cover from (ignore) it. Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Ive wondered that too. He was Jet black so how was he a Mulatto. Then again when we in the west think of Mulatto's we think of a White and Black parent but I know many "Hispanic" Mulattos and they tend to be darker...LOL one of my friends is Half Hispanic and Black and I swear you can't tell. He is the same shade as me(My Dad is a Mulatto). So maybe an Arab Mulatto was similar to a Hispanic Mulatto, Antar's dad was probably Dark to Light brown like a Hispanic.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Or it's possible that his Arab ancestry is equally as black since again Arabia is right next door to Africa.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Antar's tribe was northern Arab and he was discrinated because of his skin color.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
The leader of one Arab invasion of Egypt/North Africa was black skinned. Neither of his parents were dark. The husband took his wife's birth of a black as evidence of adultery but she swore to knowing no other man. This is a case of atavism that I think Muhammed said, to save a marriage, shows up from time to time among non-black Arabs.
Abu Zeid, the black child of non-black parents, was the leader of the Yemini banu Hilal invasian.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri define this so called Arab invasion of Africa. What countries did this supposed invasion take place?
Thank you and we are waiting for a scholarly answer.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Just to show everyone once again how to properly administer a scholarly beatdown.
Ish Gebor knows first hand about receiving scholarly beatdowns from Argyle don't you Ish Gebor?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakuri.................................
We're waiting.................................
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
They have nothing to do with Hebrew or Yehudi folklore. The black Crows are Poets from pre-islamic to islamic periods telling by there names and the narratives in arabic.
Pre-islamic culture is the viod of color racism. Antar is a pre-islamic poet and in arabic they never use the term Ethiopian only habashi when they associate antars origins. According to Arabic sources Antar is considered to be of habashi origin.
Pre-Islamic arabia was totally about blackness. If u can read arabic and find some of the poetry of that time it was very pro-black.
Posted by Crystal_Ball (Member # 18758) on :
Isn't it funny how Afrocentric's look for every civilization out of Africa to prove their Achievements.
They claim almost every civilization under the sun to make up for their lack of it.
Posted by L' (Member # 18238) on :
quote:Isn't it funny how Afrocentric's look for every civilization out of Africa to prove their Achievements.
They claim almost every civilization under the sun to make up for their lack of it.
You are stereotyping afro-centrists. You are thinking of fringe afro-centrists, and their views are not supported by the majority of posters on this forum.
Other than that, you will have to take up your issues with people whom you disagree with Posted by Crystal_Ball (Member # 18758) on :
Ancient Egyptians are same as modern day Egyptians they certainly weren't Negroid Black its amazing how African Americans have such obsession with Egyptians when these ppl are originally from West Africa and have nothing to do with Egypt.
Posted by Crystal_Ball (Member # 18758) on :
quote:Originally posted by L':
quote:Isn't it funny how Afrocentric's look for every civilization out of Africa to prove their Achievements.
They claim almost every civilization under the sun to make up for their lack of it.
You are stereotyping afro-centrists. You are thinking of fringe afro-centrists, and their views are not supported by the majority of posters on this forum.
Im really not just looking at the posts on here shows how Afrocentrics think.
They claim civilizations as far as China and Japan how silly is that? and label anything with dark skin as black race they look beyond africa to fill their insecurities.
In a way they feel that by labeling things black they have claim to someone else's civilization and culture that they were not part of.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Crystal_Bullocks: Ancient Egyptians are same as modern day Egyptians...
Not according to historical records and bio-anthropology. You do realize that immigrants from Asia and Europe have altered Egypt's populations.
quote:..they certainly weren't Negroid Black...
"Negroid" is a racial construct based on stereotypes and nothing else factual. But yes as indigenous Africans the Egyptians were certainly black.
quote:..its amazing how African Americans have such obsession with Egyptians when these ppl are originally from West Africa and have nothing to do with Egypt...
Despite what you think, most African Americans don't give a damn about Egypt. What is known is that Egypt as an African culture had a lot more in common with West African culture than today's modern 'Arab' culture.
quote:
Yes. We all know how Nefertiti's bust looks like. What you fail to realize is that the features of this bust is no different from many East African women who live in northeast Africa today. Plus, it's likely the original paint that was her dark skin color has faded off.
And what of these portraits with their skin paint better preserved??
quote:Im really not just looking at the posts on here shows how Afrocentrics think.
Again, as Sundjata says you are stereotyping. Most Afrocentrics don't think or act like this. Their focus is on AFRICA, hence the name Afrocentric! Also Egypt is IN Africa and its ancient pharaonic culture is very much a part of it!
quote:They claim civilizations as far as China and Japan how silly is that? and label anything with dark skin as black race they look beyond africa to fill their insecurities.
In a way they feel that by labeling things black they have claim to someone else's civilization and culture that they were not part of.
What you fail to realize is centuries before there was any 'Afrocentrism' Western Europeans DID THE EXACT SAME THING-- they would claim every civilization outside of Europe as being due to some advanced "caucasoid" race! Look at all the past anthropological papers. Every advanced culture from Nigeria to the Polynesia and between was attributing to caucasians and Egypt especially!! So while there are only FRINGE Afrocentrics who do this today, you must realize that MAINSTREAM Western (Eurocentric) scholars have been doing this for nearly 200 years!!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
And Eurocentrics claim all civilization as far away as China and Japan how silly is that? and label anything with light skin and pointy nosed as white race they look beyond europe to fill their insecurities.
In a way they feel that by labeling things white they have claim to someone else's civilization and culture that they were not part of.
Btw I take issue with labeling of Afrocentrist as insecure kooks an Afrocentrist is one who look at Africa from the inside who looks at African development and culture in Africa first and foremost,African migrations and settlements out side Africa may come into play from time to time,but that is a side issue, now claiming every dark skinned populous as black nah not really only when warranted such as those who self describe themselves as such and we know they are woolly haired,broad featured very dark-skinned people that exist out side the continent but are not Africans but we give em the dapp because they are black. http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pav&action=display&thread=633&page=1 Go here for more^
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
bumped for the idiotic Eurotrash with low self-esteems. Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Thanks for reviving my old thread. Still waiting though for the OP to be answered.
No one ever could provide an example of an ancient civilization in sub-sahara africa.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Anglo_Pyramidologist You are extremely thick at 7 fking pages of examples and links you still asking.
quote:Still waiting though for the OP to be answered. No one ever could provide an example of an ancient civilization in sub-sahara africa.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
?????? Look above and over the pages, only egyptians were cited.
The egyptians were not sub-saharan africans.
Just call me Jari also resorted to pasting irellevant posts about Arabs.
All i asked was an example of civilization in sub-sahara africa....not arabia or egypt.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
NO you dunce!! from page 1
AlTakuri
"When they [the first European navigators of the end of the Middle Ages] arrived in the Gulf of Guinea and landed at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find the streets well cared for, bordered for several leagues in length by two rows of trees; for many days they passed through a country of magnificent fields, a country inhabited by men clad in brilliant costumes, the stuff of which they had woven themselves! More to the South in the Kingdom of Congo, a swarming crowd dressed in silk and velvet; great states well ordered, and even to the smallest details, powerful sovereigns, rich industries, -- civilized to the marrow of their bones. And the condition of the countries on the eastern coasts -- Mozambique, for example -- was quite the same.
"What was revealed by the navigators of the fifteenth to the seventeenth centuries furnishes an absolute proof that Negro Africa, which extended south of the desert zone of the Sahara, was in full efflorescence which the European conquistadors annihilated as far as they progressed. For the new country of America needed slaves, and Africa had them to offer, hundreds, thousands, whole cargoes of slaves. However, the slave trade was never an affair which meant a perfectly easy conscience, and it exacted a justification; hence one made of the Negro a half-animal, an article of merchandise. And in the same way the notion of fetish (Portuguese feticeiro) was invented as a symbol of African religion. As for me, I have seen in no part of Africa the Negroes worshipping a fetish. The idea of the 'barbarous Negro' is a European invention which has consequently prevailed in Europe until the beginning of this century.
"What these old captains recounted, these chiefs of expeditions -- Delbes, Marchais, Pigafetta, and all the others, what they recounted is true. It can be verified. In the old Royal Kunstkammer of Dresden, in the Weydemann colection of Ulm, in many another 'cabinet of curiosities' of Europe, we still find West African collections dating from this epoch. Marvellous plush velvets of an extreme softness, made of the tenderest leaves of a certain kind of banana plant; stuffs soft and supple, brilliant and delicate, like silks, woven with the fiber of a raffia, well prepared; powerful javelins with points encrusted with copper in the most elegant fashion; bows so graceful in form and so beautifully ornamented that they would do honor to any museum of arms whatsoever; calabashes decorated with the greatest taste; sculpture in ivory and wood of which the work shows a very great deal of application and style.
"And all that came from cuntries of the African periphery, delivered over after that to slave merchants, . . .
"But when the pioneers of the last century pierced this zone of 'European civilization' and the wall of protection which had, for the time being raised behind it -- the wall of protection of the Negro still 'intact' -- they found everywhere the same marvels which the captains had found on the coast. to be continued . . . Posts: 7361 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged | alTakruri
"In 1906 when I penetrated into the territory of Kassai-Sankuru, I found still, villages of which the principle streets were bordered on each side, for leagues, with rows of palm trees, and of which the houses, decorated each one in charming fashion, were works of art as well.
"No man who did not carry sumptuous arms of iron or copper, with inlaid blades and handles covered with serpent skin. Everywhere velvets and silken stuffs. Each cup, each pipe, each spoon was an object of art perfectly worthy to be compared to the creations of the Roman European style. But all this was only the particularly tender and iridescent bloom which adorns a ripe and marvellous fruit; the gestures, the manners, the moral code of the entire people, from the little child to the old man, although they remained within absolutely natural limits, were imprinted with dignity and grace, in the families of the princes and the rich as in the vassals and slaves. I know of no northern people who can be compared with these primitives for unity of civilization. And the peaceful beauty was carried away by the floods.
"But many men had this experience: the explorers who left the savage and warrior plateau of the East and South and the North to descend into the plains of the Congo, of Lake Victoria, of the Ubangi: men such as Speke and Grant, Livingstone, Cameron, Stanley, Schweinfurth, Junker, de Brazza -- all of them -- made the same statements: they came from countries dominated by the rigid laws of the African Ares, and from then on they penetrated into the countries where peace reigned, and joy in adornment and in beauty; countries of old civilizations, of ancient styles, of harmonious styles.
"The revelations of fifteenth and seventeenth century navigators furnish us with certain proof that Negro Africa, which extended south of the Sahara desert zone, was still in full bloom, in the full brilliance of harmonious and well-formed civilizations. In the last century the superstition ruled that all high culture of Africa came from Islam. Since then we have learned much, and we know today that the beautiful turbans and clothes of the Sudanese folk were already used in Africa before Muhammed was even born or before Ethiopian culture reached inner Africa. Since then we have learned that the peculiar organization of the Sudanese states existed long before Islam and that all of the art of building and education, of city organization and handwork in Negro Africa, were thousands of years older than those of Middle Europe. to be concluded ... Posts: 7361 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged | alTakruri
Member Member # 10195
Rate Member posted 21 February, 2011 10:14 PM concluding.
quote: "Thus in the Sudan old real African warm-blooded culture existed and could be found in Equatorial Africa, where neither Ethiopian thought, Hamitic blood, or European civilization had drawn the pattern. Everywhere when we examine this ancient culture it bears the same impression. In the great museums -- Trocadero, British Museum, in Belgium, Italy, Holland, and Germany -- everywhere we see the same spirit, the same character, the same nature. All of these separate pieces unite themselves to the same expression and build a picture equally impressive as that of a collection of the art of Asia. The striking beauty of the cloth, the fantastic beauty of the drawing and the sculpture, the glory of the ivory weapons, the collection of fairy tales equal to the Thousand and One nights, the Chinese novels, and the Indian philosophy.
"In comparison with such spiritual accomplishments the impression of the African spirit is easily seen. It is stronger in its folds, simpler in its richness. Every weapon is simple and practical, not only in form but fantasy. Every line of carving is simple and strong. There is nothing that makes a clearer impression of strength, and all that streams out of the fire and the hut, the sweat and the grease- treated hides and the animal dung. Everything is practical, strong, workmanly. This is the character of the African style. When one approaches it with full understanding, one immediately realizes that this impression rules all Africa. It expresses itself in the activity of all Negro people even in their sculpture. It speaks out of their dances and their masks; out of the understanding of their religious life, just as out of the reality of their living, their state building, and their conception of fate. It lives in their fables, their fairy stories, their wise sayings and their myths.
"And once we are forced to this conclusion, then the Egyptian comes into the comparison. For this discovered culture form of Negro Africa has the same peculiarity."
Leo Frobenius Histoire de la Civilisation Africaine translated by Back and Ermoat Paris: Gallimard, 1936 6th edition page 56 http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004109;p=1 Followed by Jeri WhatBox Ausar myself Kenndo Ish Gabor Sundjata TruthAndRights but of course you by passed all of that info and still at 7 pages you asked for the same fking info, ignorance but with a willingness to learn I can deal with willful ignorance pisses me off to no end.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ?????? Look above and over the pages, only egyptians were cited.
Either you are outright knowingly lying (thinking that people here can't read), or you can't read/can't comprehend what you read, or you really did not read every post on the above pages....which is it.... Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Don't be pissed. Understand your enemy. Pyramidiot is not here to learn. (S)he is here to chagrin. While you would indulge the fool (s)he has no intent of granting common humanity to Africans or blacks and will take no cognisanse of plain evidence.
Our enemies never seek our good. Never expect them to. They will play a game of pretend, all the while pushing their agenda in even the most benign of tones if it suits their momentary purpose, only to later come up out of their sheets.
Direct your energies to uncovering more previously unposted information for we who are here to learn. You are excellent at that and we seeking knowledge muchly appreciate it.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: AlTakuri ... Followed by Jeri WhatBox Ausar myself Kenndo Ish Gabor Sundjata TruthAndRights but of course you by passed all of that info and still at 7 pages you asked for the same fking info, ignorance but with a willingness to learn I can deal with willful ignorance pisses me off to no end.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Indeed. It's obvious Pyramidiot is a psychopath and not merely an idiot. If he has enough intelligence to read and comprehend posts, he obviously is intelligent enough to comprehend the 7 pages of data that debunk him! As Takruri said, this guy is playing games. He knows his arguments are a lost cause but as Rasol so brilliantly psycho-analyzed so long ago, these Euronut trolls are so deranged they will stop at nothing to promote their nonsense. Even if it means ignore the mountains of evidence thrown at their faces nearly every day here on this forum.
I mean for God sakes, the fool actually cited outdated passages claiming whites to be aboriginal to the Pacific islands!! Do you really think such a disturbed mind is interested in reality??
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti
17984 posts plus those of his sockpuppets.
Damn.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:...Indians were killed off, about 60 mill of them died during their holocaust on the hand of Westerners
Respectfully, when one puts all of the indigneous peoples of North, Central, and South Americas together into the equation, the number is higher than 60 mill...
The atrocities Europeans aka 'white' people have commited on the people of the globe everywhere they have gone....dem people deh sick mi belly....bloodclaat sadistic butchers iyah...dem ah plague pon Mama Earth and HUEmanity...
Just about all non-'white' people across the globe have suffered and are suffering their own holocausts directly (or indirectly) at the hands of 'white' people...
they even put their own 'white'-skinned bredrin through a holocaust.....despite the denial of some...
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
TruthAndRights................
Shut the f--- up, you sorry ass professional victim.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: TruthAndRights................
Shut the f--- up, you sorry ass professional victim.
As always, yuh deh pon skunt...
I am not a victim yuh likkle pissintail caba caba battyfish...
that being said....
FASSY GO SUCK YUH MADDA'S LEAKY FROWNSY CROTCHES TIL YUH CHOKE PON IT...
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
The fact of the matter is - black people never had an ancient civilization.
There is no such thing an an ancient black philosopher, poet, historian, chronicler, scientist, inventor, geographer etc.
As i keep telling people -
Who recorded the native myths of the sub-saharan africans?
WHITE europeans did. This is because blacks never had a written script, so white missionaries recorded them down.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The fact of the matter is - black people never had an ancient civilization.
There is no such thing an an ancient black philosopher, poet, historian, chronicler, scientist, inventor, geographer etc.
As i keep telling people -
Who recorded the native myths of the sub-saharan africans?
WHITE europeans did. This is because blacks never had a written script, so white missionaries recorded them down.
Um. Yeah.
This pale eediat nah nuh head fe true....lol
Posted by Calabooz ' (Member # 18238) on :
Here's an interesting read for you, cassiterides:
quote:Conclusion: A few lessons from Timbuktu:
I conclude this chapter by simply enumerating what I consider important lessons from Timbuktu. The first lesson is the one to be drawn from the fact that science and scholarship in Africa have a history prior to colonialism and prior to the introduction of European languages. The manuscripts are not only in Arabic. They are also in local languages using Arabic script. When African philosophers, for example, discuss questions of translation and transformation of African languages into philosophical languages, they should first remember that this is a process that happened at different periods in the history of discipline to many different languages through their contact with Greek philosophy: Latin with Cicero, Arabic with Nestorian translators of Aristotle and Plato, French with Descartes and so on. They should also be fully cognisant of the African tradition of the so-called ajami literature, that is, literature using Arabic script in a non-Arabic language.
Other lessons are to be drawn from the works of the most prominent representative of the elite scholars from Timbuktu. Ahmad Baba. His importance has been highlighted in many chapters. I would like in turn to insist on the position taken by this great African philosopher in the face of racism, when he replied unambiguously to interlocutors who implied that enslavement of black people was the natural consequence of some cosmic curse against the descendants of Ham, son of Noah: 'There is no difference between one race and another', he wrote in his Mi'raj al-su'ud, dismissing unequivocally any idea of a'natural' character of slavery that could lead to disparagingly calling black people [i]'abid(slaves), as is even today sometimes the case.
I also consider that Ahmad Baba's work titled Tuhfat al-fudala encapsulates the meaning of Timbuktu's and of West Africa's written tradition in general. At the centre of its topic is Baba's citation of a prophetic saying (hadith) that summarizes perfectly the argument made in the book: 'One hour of a scholar laying on his be but meditating on his knowledge is more valuable than the worship of a devout person during seventy years'. Ahmad Baba insists on the value of knowledge with the precision that knowledge is authentic and complete only when it is a way of life, when beyond the mastery of science there is scrupulous attention to what a good life means, when the accomplished faqih (jurist) is also fully realised 'arif (sage)
The reason I mention the importance of Tuhfat al-fudala is that it conveys a double lesson for us today. The first lesson about the importance of knowledge is that the manuscripts must of course be preserved and cataloged, but turning them into sheer museum objects is not the ultimate goal. The mediation on African sciences and knowledge requires that the manuscripts, in Timbuktu and elsewhere, be published and made accessible to today's scholarship. The second lesson is another prophetic saying by Baba in Tuhfat al fudala: 'The ink of the scholar is more precious that the blood of the martyr'. Although we live in a time when ignorance speaks in the loud voice of the bombs and assassins prtetend that they are martyrs, we are reminded by one of the greatest African philosophers of the past that the patience of education has incomparably more value than any other form of combat
--The Meanings of Timbuktu
To note, the scholar being referenced recorded the history of West Africa NOT Europeans.
Have fun reading, later
PS: You can find the entire Ebook online
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Calabooz ' now what makes you think he will even bother reading any of the above. Beware the beast Troll, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills threads for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's web-site. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his web-site and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his cave lair, for he is the harbinger of EgyptSearch death!!! Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Note the challenge posted pages back -
Provide an example of a black sub-saharan african ancient scientist, inventor, writer, historian, geographer etc.
So far none have been presented.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Calabooz ' now what makes you think he will even bother reading any of the above =====
What he's posted is irrelevant. He's posted about a 16th or 17th century Muslim author.
I asked for an ancient sub-saharan author, inventor, scientist etc or an example of an ancient sub-saharan civilization.
The fact is black people have no history in civilization, they only stole it from europeans when we colonised africa. It was white people who gave black people everything from running water to electricity. Blacks never founded or created anything themselves which is why universally they are the most despised race.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Question never answered: Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
All ancient civilizations were outside of sub-sahara africa. Yet afrocentric loonies want us to believe egyptians were black and ancient greece etc.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Blacks never founded or created anything themselves which is why universally they are the most despised race.
Dark skinned Africans are your ancestors. it's proven genetically and anthropologically
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Note the challenge posted pages back -
Provide an example of a black sub-saharan african ancient scientist, inventor, writer, historian, geographer etc.
So far none have been presented.
West Africa had an education system and Universities before West Europe did etc...it was only recently West Europeans introduced a general education system. Before this time only aristocrats were educated. Written scripture already existed in West Africa, but on a priest leven not for common men/women. This was already shown in this thread.
Plus you have no knowledge of African history (this includes ancient Egypt) as is proven by you, time and time again. It's because of your xenophobic nature.
Scholars of Timbuktu
The following is a partial list of the scholars of Timbuktu. They’re so many of them that we decided to give a brief account of only a few:
All the scholars of Timbuktu shared the following divine qualities: they combined the practice of the commands of the Holy Scriptures with the science of the purification of the heart and the soul. In other words, through the practice of Tassawuf or purification of the heart from of all evil characteristics, they were able to walk in the footsteps of God's prophets. As a result, they have experienced spiritual states and divine insights not accessible by ordinary worshipers with blind hearts. They adhered to righteousness, piety, self-denial, truth, devotional worships, God's conciousness, excellence of character, spiritual tranquility, eminence, and sincerity in all their actions. They were Maliki scholars and followed the Tarika or spiritual path of the Qaadiriya. The founder of this inner spiritual order is Sheik Abd Al Qaadir Al Gaylani. He was a descendent of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). . He followed in the path of love and sincerity of the Messenger of God and achieved the highest degree of nearness to God.
Modibo Mohammed Al Kaburi
He was a Fulani, a Jurist and Judge. He was fortunate to be a companion to many righteous scholars of the Sankore University. He was the scholar who developed the curriculum of Sankore. He was also known for his pious and devotional character.
Al Qadi Al Hajj
He was an eminent Jurist from Walata. God blessed Al Qadi with the function of Chief Judge of Timbuktu. He ordered the people of Timbuktu to recite half of a "hizb"or part of the Qur'an after noon and evening prayers.
Abu Abdallah And Ag Mohammed ibn Mohammed ibn Uthman
He was a Tuareg Jurist and had a wealth of knowledge. He was a virtuous and righteous man. He was descended from Ahmed Baba es Sudane. He was appointed Judge of Timbuktu.
Sheik Sidi Abu Al Barakaat Mahmud ibn Umar ibn Aqit
He was also known as Sheik Al Islam Abu Al Barakaat. He was the Supreme Judge of Timbuktu, Imam and the Dean of Sankore University. He was firm, pious, humble, modest, and had an excellent mastery of the Arabic language.
Al Moctar Ag Mohammed ibn Utman
He is known as An-Nahawi, meaning the grammarian. He was brilliant and was endowed by Allah with knowledge in all Islamic branches.
Abd Arahman Ag Mohammed ibn Utman the name Ag, usually referred to "son of"-a common name among Tuareg scholars. Abd Arahman was a learned professor; he was gentle, and possessed Taqwa or God's concisouness.
Abu Al Abbas Ahmad Buryu ibn And Ag Mohammed ibn Utman Humble, he yearned for the hereafter; Abu Al Abbas was not only pious, he was a great source of knowledge. Most scholars of Sankore benefited from his abundant wealth of knowledge.
Abu Abdallah And Ag Mohammed ibn Al Moctar 'n-Nawahi
He was appointed as the Imam and Dean of Sankore by the Qadi Mahmud. Like his father An-Nawahi, he was known for his excellent command of the Arabic language. Every year during the month of Ramadan, he gave captivating and fascinating commentaries of the "Kitab Ashiffa" of Qadi Iyad. The Ashiffa is a spiritual biography of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).
Al Moctar ibn Mohammed ibn Al Moctar 'n-Nawahi ibn and Ag Mohammed .He was a Jurist, he loved singing the praises of the Messenger of God; he spent a great deal of his wealth for the "Festivities of Maulid" or the birthday of the Prophet.
Ahmed Baba Es Sudane
Descendent of Umar ibn Mohammed Aqit the Tuareg. He liked to be called Ahmed Baba, the black. At an early age, he dedicated his time to learning until he surpassed all his peers and contemporaries. He was the matchless Jurist, scholar and Imam of his time. His reputation spread all over Sub-Sahara Africa and North Africa. The Jurists of Timbuktu sought his advise in matters pertaining to legal decisions. He was a storehouse of Islamic knowledge. He firmly stood on truth in face of the Amirs and Kings. He had a library of 1600 manuscripts that was plundered during the Moroccan invasion of Timbuktu. He was deported to Fez in 1593. He authored 60 books (more than Shakespeare had written). He was called “Standard of Standards” by the Moroccans. He was also the student of the eminent black scholar Mohammed Bagayogo. He wrote excellent books on theology, grammar, history and Jurisprudence.
Mohammed Bagayogo Es Sudane Al Wangari Al Timbukti
His ancestors were the black scholars Wangari of the blessed city of Jenne. He was the Sheik and professor of Ahmed Baba Es Sudan. He was born in Timbuktu. He did all his studies in Timbuktu. He was one of the most eminent professors of both Sidi Yahya and Sankore Universities. He was without doubt a veritable Doctor of Islamic Sciences. This was confirmed when he stopped in Cairo on his way to Mecca. The scholars of Al Azhar University conferred on him the title of Doctor. He was a Jurist well versed in all branches of Islamic knowledge. He had a very busy schedule and loved imparting knowledge to people with great patience. He would loan his books to his students and friends and would not ask for them back. He was sincere in his intentions and actions. He loved people and people loved him. He was given the position of the supreme Judge of Timbuktu, which he kindly declined for fear of being unjust toward people. He lectured in all the Universities of the city. He wrote his own personal copies of the Holy Qur'an which are today with his descendent Baba Muhmud Hassay the actual Imam of Sidi Yahya Masjid. He possessed absolute mastery in the areas of Jurisprudence, Arabic Grammar, Prophetic Traditions, Logic, etc. He imparted knowledge to his students as well as received knowledge from them. He was humble and accepted truth wherever it came from.
The Professors and Imams of Jingaray Ber:
Jingaray Ber was built by Mansa Musa in 1325. This Masjid or University is 700 years old. Every Friday 9,000 people pray in this blessed Mosque. Among the list of eminent Scholars and Imams of the University of Jingare Ber are: Kaatib Musa, Sidi Abd Allah Al Balbali, Sidi Abu Al Kassim Tuwaati, Sidi Mansur Al Fezani, Ibrahim z-Zulfi, Ahmad the father of Nana Surgu (meaning the father of Nana the Tuareg woman), Sidi Ali Al Jazuli, Siddiq ibn Mohammed Ta'alla, Uthman ibn Al Hassan ibn Al Hajj at Tishiti, Mohammed Gididu al Fulani, Imam Ahmad ibn Imam Saddiq, Abd Arahman ibn Sayeed, Baba Alpha and Abderahman Ben Assuyut, the actual Imam.
The Professors and Imams of Sankore University:
As we said earlier, the Sankore Masjid was first built by Mandika people around the 12th century. It is located in the northeast district of Timbuktu. A Wangara or Mandika woman financed Sankore University making it the leading center of learning in West Africa at that time. The Moors and the Tuareg Sanhaja settled in the Sankore district around the 13th century. They contributed significantly to the intellectual life of the city. Sankore became very famous in the history of the University of Timbuktu. Among the scholars of Sankore are: Abu Al Baraaka, Mohammed Bagayogo, Ahmed Baba, And Ag Mohammed, Al Aqib ibn Faqi Muhmud, Abu Bakr ibn Ahmad Biru, Abd Arahman ibn Faqi Mahmud, Mohammed ibn Mohammed Kara and the actual Imam.
The Professors and Imams of Sidi Yahya University:
The Masjid of Sidi Yahya was built by Mohammed Naddi, one of the governors of the city appointed by the Mandika Dynasty. Mohammed Naddi was a friend of the Saint Sidi Yahya Al Andulusi. Sidi Yahya was the first Imam, scholar, professor, and saint of this Masjid. After him, there were: Mohammed Bagayogo, Saddiq, Mohammed Ben Al Wangari, Mohammed Ben Sayeed, Mohammed Ben Ahmadu, Ahmadu Ben Abdallah, Saleh Ben Mohammed, Salmay Al Wangari, Bagno Wangari, Baba Wangari, Ahmadu Bagno, Baba Alpha Umar, Al Imam Ahmadu, and the existing Imam Baba Mahmud Hassay, may Allah bless them for their valuable contributions.
And of course the well known Al Jahiz. (Abu Uthman Amr bin Basr al-Fuqaymi al-Basri al-Jahiz 160-255/776-869)
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Question never answered: Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
All ancient civilizations were outside of sub-sahara africa. Yet afrocentric loonies want us to believe egyptians were black and ancient greece etc.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The fact of the matter is
You are not looking.
Or better yet our evidence doesn't appeal to your semantical effort and dishonest objective of Sub-Sahara = The absence of civilization.
This thread you created is merely a campaign at shame toward African people since you believe we have been consequently led politically astray during the course of time out of imperialism.
You must think we are brainless coming to a "black" dominated forum where countless amount of knowledge and information regarding Africa and indigenous people are exchanged, expecting us to be convinced on the account of African documentation by European imperialists.
No one else can tell our story better than we can, hence we do not approve of the sentimental remarks of your ancestors and their children. They are not the keepers of our own story because we as black people carry that responsibility.
Its worthless trying to convince you or others like you to accept it. If you weren't such a troll-bag you would do more to contribute in exchange of knowledge rather than stench the place with your trash.
Posted by Calabooz ' (Member # 18238) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi Calabooz ' now what makes you think he will even bother reading any of the above.
I didn't, really
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: What he's posted is irrelevant. He's posted about a 16th or 17th century Muslim author.
Just a quick question, what are you talking about? Ahmad Baba was an elite AFRICAN scholar from Timbuktu, Timbuktu being the focus. Specifically pointing out that scholarship and science and Africa was prior to Europeans. Further, all or most of the scholars from Timbuktu were African. I see Ish Gebor already posted the list that I had posted previously, so with that I say good day Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor,
Your scholarly beatdown has not concluded.
Now, I will finish you.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor,
Your scholarly beatdown has not concluded.
Now, I will finish you.
Continue your queries in the international database I've provided.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The fact of the matter is
You are not looking.
Or better yet our evidence doesn't appeal to your semantical effort and dishonest objective of Sub-Sahara = The absence of civilization.
This thread you created is merely a campaign at shame toward African people since you believe we have been consequently led politically astray during the course of time out of imperialism.
You must think we are brainless coming to a "black" dominated forum where countless amount of knowledge and information regarding Africa and indigenous people are exchanged, expecting us to be convinced on the account of African documentation by European imperialists.
No one else can tell our story better than we can, hence we do not approve of the sentimental remarks of your ancestors and their children. They are not the keepers of our own story because we as black people carry that responsibility.
Its worthless trying to convince you or others like you to accept it. If you weren't such a troll-bag you would do more to contribute in exchange of knowledge rather than stench the place with your trash.
Cosign 100%
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks watch Ish Gebor's reaction. Watch how upset he gets by the facts below.
Ish Gebor has been exposed yet again as a racial pseudonhistorian and pseudoscientist.
The people making money in various ways off of slavery didn't care who they brought over or enslaved. They were interested in the profits that individual could bring them. Where that person was from or looked like mattered none to the profiteers of slavery.
It hurts the sensiblities of people like Ish Gebor because he is a low intelligent individual who is vulnerable to eurocentric mental manipulation.
Which is based on the lie that slaves were exclusively "certain" Africans. This is done because with some individual whites, the thought that their ancestors may have been involved with enslaving humans whom they thought were above the "primitive" African is revolting and psychologically troubling.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
You will also find that in many cases people who were brought to the Americas as slaves and were not African, were often called mullato or "even" negro.
Negro and mullato were catch terms used by some slavers to fend off criticism in the late 18th century and throughout the 19th century for enslaving obvious non-Africans. Just call them mullato (part sub-human) or negro (full sub-human) and you have a justification for that person's enslavement.
Posted by thejflo (Member # 17299) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Calabooz ' now what makes you think he will even bother reading any of the above =====
What he's posted is irrelevant. He's posted about a 16th or 17th century Muslim author.
I asked for an ancient sub-saharan author, inventor, scientist etc or an example of an ancient sub-saharan civilization.
The fact is black people have no history in civilization, they only stole it from europeans when we colonised africa. It was white people who gave black people everything from running water to electricity. Blacks never founded or created anything themselves which is why universally they are the most despised race.
"Race" is a modern concept. If "Blacks" are the most despised race, it is through centuries of modern propaganda and brainwashing.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
Mali and Songhay KINGDOMS/EMPIRES etc etc.. were civilizations.
I was doing some more research off and on,and the more i read it seems that least in the late middle ages nubia and certain West african civilizations i just mention,maybe were equally advanced.
In some areas nubia were ahead,and some areas,parts of west africa was ahead.
Before the modern early period some parts of west africa seems more advanced THEN NUBIA.
I know by early modern times parts of west africa LIKE THE MANDE FOR EXAMPLE became more advanced again THEN NUBIA.
This is what it seem to me when i read more details.
I know this for sure,large parts of africa were more advanced then europe,meaning large areas of west africa , east africa,north africa and few parts in southern africa and central africa.
More research must be done in all these areas of africa however so we could know more of the great civilizations in africa.
That's it from me here,i just wanted to come by and give my recent views. Bye.
Posted by Pertinax (Member # 19391) on :
There has never been a civilization before Christ in Africa. Thank the white man who came to strip them of tribalism, cannibalism and ignorance.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pertinax: There has never been a civilization before Christ in Africa. Thank the white man who came to strip them of tribalism, cannibalism and ignorance.
Personally, I think sub-Saharan Africans were too busy engaging in bull jumping and other lazy amusements to appreciate your great strides in the arts and sciences, white man.
Too bad they had to bring such worthless pursuits into the Aegean and European world so early. Shucks.
Chatal Huyuk Anatolia Aegean
You are absolutely right, white man. We neglected to thank you for bringing these pyramids to the ignorant west African ancestors, with the associated engineering, metallurgical, mathematical and astronomical technologies.
For that matter thanks for the techniques of pyramid building and hydraulics, plus (OMG)-the cornrows - you apparently brought to the ancient Americas and south Pacific with your not too inept navigational skills.
I must say, you are truly on a roll.
All that I ask is that you just please keep up the good work. Posted by Pertinax (Member # 19391) on :
How many books are found in sub-Saharan Africa? You need psychological treatment. I pity you.
Posted by Pertinax (Member # 19391) on :
I say before Christ because after you have been literate by the white Arabs.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pertinax: How many books are found in sub-Saharan Africa? You need psychological treatment. I pity you.
But why - have i not praised the white man enough?
Anatolia
What do you want from us. Oh - i forgot, I'm sorry that's right - you brought the thousands of books to Jenne and Timbuktu and the books of the Moors in Spain, and before that you were the Canaanites who settled Phoenicia and invented papyrus. My bad.
By the way thank you for the UFO photos of the beings that brought all of the knowledge of the stars to the Dogon and secret societies of Africa. Truly you are worthy to be praised.
Don't worry I know that was really you masters of the sky in there.
PS - Forgive me if I neglected to mention the Runic books. I personally am not familiar with them. But I think some American Indians must be since they are descended from Vikings -right? Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]"White Arabs"? Now that's a really interesting topic. But we won't go there here, until you learn to speak Arabic, or at least read what "white" meant in classical Arabic and the semitic dialects in general.
Posted by Pertinax (Member # 19391) on :
White BC
Sub-Saharan Africa?
Where is the writing of sub-Saharan Africa? Books?
I'm very sorry for you. No anger for stealing our history but worth it!
Keep dreaming
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pertinax: [QB] White BC
Such a beautiful painting? Like I said, the white man is worthy to be praised. Now how bout the Greek. lol!
I think you need a little lesson bout "writing". Did you know Greek "writing" uses alphabet that comes from the Proto-Sinaitic Canaanite related peoples?
I post your silly question to you. WHERE IS YOUR "WRITING"?
BTW - Even the most traditional people of Africa like the Luo have their own sacred scripts including Vai, Mende, Dholuo, Tifinagh and Ge'ez most of which have had a long evolution in Africa.
As I wrote, continue your quest in the VALID international databases I have provided.
Yet, what do you do. You post broken links. And links of home made webpages. And I and others are suppose to take you seriously.
You are such an idiot. Incredible......smh.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Ish Gebor has been exposed yet again as a racial pseudonhistorian and pseudoscientist.
The people making money in various ways off of slavery didn't care who they brought over or enslaved. They were interested in the profits that individual could bring them. Where that person was from or looked like mattered none to the profiteers of slavery.
It hurts the sensiblities of people like Ish Gebor because he is a low intelligent individual who is vulnerable to eurocentric mental manipulation.
Which is based on the lie that slaves were exclusively "certain" Africans. This is done because with some individual whites, the thought that their ancestors may have been involved with enslaving humans whom they thought were above the "primitive" African is revolting and psychologically troubling.
Keep believing in your little crazy fantasies.
In the meanwhile provide credible and VALID databases (who of your claims)....I have been waiting for almost 6 months. Yet still nothing....speaking of pseudo lol.....idiot.
Your mind is as steady as those broken links you've provided.
Nuff said.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: You will also find that in many cases people who were brought to the Americas as slaves and were not African, were often called mullato or "even" negro.
Negro and mullato were catch terms used by some slavers to fend off criticism in the late 18th century and throughout the 19th century for enslaving obvious non-Africans. Just call them mullato (part sub-human) or negro (full sub-human) and you have a justification for that person's enslavement.
Where is the evidence, other than your racist pseudo theory, trying to minimize the suffering and horific experience of these Africans who had to endure the middle passage. Killed, thrown over board etc...
Fact is black/ African women were raped by European men.
Another fact is that non-Africans were taken to the Americas as substitutes for Africans. After the abolishment. These groups received land, payment had their original culture, names and access to many benefits. Not to say that there aren't cases were it took a slightly different route. but mostly not so.
And the reports are there of the trans Atlantic slave trade.
I suspect you show me some, since you are the expert on slavery. Since you seem to be obsessed by the word slavery.
As soon as the word slave pops up you appear coherently as the mathematical equal.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdi: you cant judge cicilisation on building,not every one used pyramids, somalia dont have pyramids but we are the most proud ancient nation that never bowed to outsider,...so many poetry in that land and so many brave men...well all i know is white men never rested when they come to ancient somalia or ardul habasha before islam.
^^Pathetic troll, no one is being fooled by your antics. So this is your "follow on" user name, where you pretend to be "defending" something? Everyone can see thru your BS. And don't you get it? Your pathetic tactics only allow more hard research to be posted, which in turn is picked up by Google, which in turn makes more people informed. Info that would have stayed buried is posted and multiplied across the web, to be replicated not merely on web forums, but in school lesson plans, history month events etc. etc. A shrewd racist would do everything possible to discourage the appearance of such hard research. You fail again.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz ': Here's an interesting read for you, cassiterides:
quote:Conclusion: A few lessons from Timbuktu:
I conclude this chapter by simply enumerating what I consider important lessons from Timbuktu. The first lesson is the one to be drawn from the fact that science and scholarship in Africa have a history prior to colonialism and prior to the introduction of European languages. The manuscripts are not only in Arabic. They are also in local languages using Arabic script. When African philosophers, for example, discuss questions of translation and transformation of African languages into philosophical languages, they should first remember that this is a process that happened at different periods in the history of discipline to many different languages through their contact with Greek philosophy: Latin with Cicero, Arabic with Nestorian translators of Aristotle and Plato, French with Descartes and so on. They should also be fully cognisant of the African tradition of the so-called ajami literature, that is, literature using Arabic script in a non-Arabic language.
Other lessons are to be drawn from the works of the most prominent representative of the elite scholars from Timbuktu. Ahmad Baba. His importance has been highlighted in many chapters. I would like in turn to insist on the position taken by this great African philosopher in the face of racism, when he replied unambiguously to interlocutors who implied that enslavement of black people was the natural consequence of some cosmic curse against the descendants of Ham, son of Noah: 'There is no difference between one race and another', he wrote in his Mi'raj al-su'ud, dismissing unequivocally any idea of a'natural' character of slavery that could lead to disparagingly calling black people [i]'abid(slaves), as is even today sometimes the case.
I also consider that Ahmad Baba's work titled Tuhfat al-fudala encapsulates the meaning of Timbuktu's and of West Africa's written tradition in general. At the centre of its topic is Baba's citation of a prophetic saying (hadith) that summarizes perfectly the argument made in the book: 'One hour of a scholar laying on his be but meditating on his knowledge is more valuable than the worship of a devout person during seventy years'. Ahmad Baba insists on the value of knowledge with the precision that knowledge is authentic and complete only when it is a way of life, when beyond the mastery of science there is scrupulous attention to what a good life means, when the accomplished faqih (jurist) is also fully realised 'arif (sage)
The reason I mention the importance of Tuhfat al-fudala is that it conveys a double lesson for us today. The first lesson about the importance of knowledge is that the manuscripts must of course be preserved and cataloged, but turning them into sheer museum objects is not the ultimate goal. The mediation on African sciences and knowledge requires that the manuscripts, in Timbuktu and elsewhere, be published and made accessible to today's scholarship. The second lesson is another prophetic saying by Baba in Tuhfat al fudala: 'The ink of the scholar is more precious that the blood of the martyr'. Although we live in a time when ignorance speaks in the loud voice of the bombs and assassins prtetend that they are martyrs, we are reminded by one of the greatest African philosophers of the past that the patience of education has incomparably more value than any other form of combat
--The Meanings of Timbuktu
To note, the scholar being referenced recorded the history of West Africa NOT Europeans.
Have fun reading, later
PS: You can find the entire Ebook online
I almost forgot,the scholar Ibn Battuta who traveled the world said wrote that mande the most civilized(most advanced civilization )in during his time.
Other scholars have mention how advanced west african civilizations were too,so it seem that the mande and certain west african were the most advnaced in the world and in africa in the middle ages.They become more advanced then others starting in the mid middles ages.
It reminds me when greek and roman scholars visit africa and said nubia and axum were the most advanced civilizations in the late ancient period,nubia more so in the late ancient period.
Anyway these racist freaks do not seem to care,you could give them all the info,show pictures and writings,and even mention what some of thier own scholars had to say and they still will deny.
They do not have to like or love black folks,but they do not have the right to to tell lies.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pertinax: There has never been a civilization before Christ in Africa. Thank the white man who came to strip them of tribalism, cannibalism and ignorance.
You are full of crap,africa had civilization before christ,and some of them were more advanced then the most advanced european civilization in late ancient times.
West africa had the most advanced civilizations before modern times, and that's the facts.
Has for your last comments, you know that's full crap.Stop with your lies and read what others have said here carefully. Bye.
Posted by melchior7 (Member # 18960) on :
Ghana, Mali, Abyssinia etc were civilizations.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
like i said west africa had the most advanced civilizations before modern times,they may have started out to be more advanced then nubia starting with the ghana empire before the early middle ages ended.
I am not sure,i may have to look into that.
It seems these racist have a greater hate for folks of west african origin for some reason,AND I HAVE A FEW IDEAS of my own why they hate so much.
I will not post any of my views here dealing with that,i let others do that.They hate the fact too that blacks were the first humans on earth.I DEBATED a fool on another forum who said they were not.
Of course the racists are wrong and the facts are that blacks were the first humans on earth.
Anyway here are some facts.
by brickfire (Tue Aug 30 2011 03:03:41) Edit Reply
UPDATED Fri Sep 2 2011 00:37:06 science and math in early africa.
Subject: Re: science in early africa and other things
Introduction The history of the sciences in Africa is rich and diverse. In ancient northeast Africa, those regions such as Egypt, Nubia and Aksum that had evolved large, complex state systems, also supported a division of labor which allowed for the growth of science and the more practical technologies involved with the engineering of public works. In other parts of Africa, in the various city states, kingdoms, and empires that dominated the political landscape, science and technology also developed in various ways. The applied sciences of agronomy, metallurgy, engineering and textile production, as well as medicine, dominated the field of activity across Africa. So advanced was the culture of farming within West Africa, that ?New World? agricultural growth was spawned by the use of captives from these African societies that had already made enormous strides in the field of agronomy. In her work Black Rice, Judith Carnoy demonstrates the legacy of enslaved Africans to the Americas in the sphere of rice cultivation. We know also that a variety of African plants were adopted in Asia, including coffee, the oil palm, fonio or acha (digitaria exilis), African rice (oryza glabberima), and sorghum (sorghum bicolor). Plants, whether in terms of legumes, grain, vegetables, tubers, or, wild or cultivated fruits, also had medicinal implications for Africans and were used as anesthetics or pain killers, analgesics for the control of fever, antidotes to counter poisons, and anthelmints aimed at deworming. They were used also in cardiovascular, gastro-intestinal, and dermatological contexts. Some of these such as hoodia gordonii and combrettum caffrum are being integrated within contemporary pharmaceutical systems.
The African landscape is dotted with the remnants of walled enclosures of various dimensions in Southern Africa and West Africa. The irrigation terraces of Gwoza and Yil Ngas, Nigeria, and the earthworks of Benin are major testimonies to the engineering activities of ancient West Africans. The Benin earthworks have been estimated about 10,000 miles long by the archeologist Patrick Darling. The totality of all the irrigation terrace lines or contours in Gwoza, northeast Nigeria, may be on the order of 20,000 miles, according to researchers such as White and Gwimbe, who have done extensive work on this subject. Various architectural styles emerged in the region with a propensity for sun dried clay in the West African Sahelian region and East Africa. Obelisks, stelae, sphinxes, flat topped and peaked pyramids, walled enclosures called zimbabwes, sculptured temples, terraces and beehive, circular and rectangular dwellings, are among the wide variety of engineered structures of Africa.
After the 3rd century B.C.E., a process of cross-fertilization among the ancient Egyptians, Nubians, and Aksumites of Africa; their Mediterranean neighbors in Greece; and the Semitic peoples of Western Asia ushered in one of the most dynamic eras of scientific discovery the world has yet known. The Egyptian port city named after its Macedonian conqueror, Alexander the Great, became the locus of this extraordinary scientific energy. The Library of Alexandria, built apparently on an ancient Egyptian city, contained at its height well over a million books. While some European scholars of an earlier era categorized the remarkable scientific achievements emanating from Egypt during that period as essentially Greek, it is now apparent that the greatness of this epoch actually resulted from conjoining Northeast Africa's three thousand years of accumulated scientific knowledge with that of their ancient Greek conquerors. It has been suggested that Egypt?s first significant scientific document, the so-called Edwin Smith Papyrus, was initially written 2500 years before the Greek conquest of Egypt in 332 B.C.E. Hellenized Egyptians like Claudius Ptolemaeus, Heron, and the female mathematician Hypatia helped lay the foundations for what later European scholars came to label the "Greek sciences." This may be in part because the educated Egyptians of that later era wrote in Greek or a derivative language of ancient Egyptian called Coptic, which employed the Greek alphabet.
Day 1: Astronomy, Physics and Mathematics
Africa's areas of scientific investigation include the fields of astronomy, physics, and mathematics. Laird Scranton, making use of the extensive collections of Marcel Griaule, has deepened our understanding of Malian cosmological myths and their perceptions of the structure of matter and the physical world. Dogon knowledge systems have also been explored in terms of their perceptions on astronomy. Dogon propositions about Sirius B have been discussed by Charles Finch in The Star of Deep Beginnings. The solar calendar that we use today evolved from the Egyptian calendar of twelve months, calibrated according to the day on which the star Sirius rose on the horizon with the Sun. Scranton suggests major interconnections between the thought of the ancient Egyptians and that of the Malians of West Africa.
In the field of mathematics, the ancient Egyptians engaged in geometric problem solving considerably before the arrival of the Greeks. They incorporated in their mathematical activity numerous mathematical principles, including the principle of progressive doubling, the concept of square root, and quadratic equations. Egyptian and Nubian builders calculated the volumes of masonry and building materials, as well as the slopes of pyramids, for construction purposes. Bianchi points to a Nubian engraving at Meroe, in ancient Sudan, dated to the first century B.C.E., which reflects ?a sophisticated understanding of mathematics.? Included in the engraving were several lines, inclined at a 72-degree angle, running diagonally from the base of a pyramid. Bianchi suggests that the Nubian King Amanikhabale of the first century BCE was the owner of that pyramid. Interestingly, the Nubians of Meroe, who constructed more pyramids than the Egyptians, built steep, flat-topped pyramids.
The history of mathematics in other parts of Africa has been examined by the African Mathematical Union, based in Mozambique, and other scholars. Hundreds of sources have been listed, including 20th-century works of anthropologists such as Delafosse (1928), Almeida (1947), Armstrong (1962), and Cheik Anta Diop. There are historically very practical explanations for the development of mathematics in the continent. A complex system of trade developed across the Sahara and with Asia, based on commodities such as gold and gold dust, kola nuts, leather items such as bags, and various types of textile. For African Muslims, the calculation of inheritance and the distribution of Zakat necessitated mathematical accuracy. Some indigenous systems of calculation were decimal (based on ten), while others were vigesimal, based on twenty, such as the Yoruba system. Distinctions were made between prime numbers and multiples that contained other numbers. Various symbols evolved to represent various quantities, fractions, etc. Much of what we know about African systems of logic is manifested in games of strategy such as mancala and ayo, games of alignment, and puzzles. The major sources for studying mathematics are archaeological relics, such as the Ishango Bone of the Congo with pattern of notches etched onto it, and oral tradition in the form of riddles, proverbs, and narratives. Paulus Gerdes has done a great deal of work analyzing sand drawings, as well as basketry, to decipher some of the underlying mathematical underpinnings. Ron Eglash has pointed out that traditional African settlements as well as coiffure and hair braiding, tend to reflect fractal structures, in his words, ?circles of circles of circular dwellings, rectangular walls enclosing ever-smaller rectangles, and streets in which broad avenues branch down to tiny footpaths with striking geometric repetition.?
Day 2: Medicine
Some common patterns and trends in medicine emerged across the continent. These included scientifically proven methods, as well as techniques and strategies which were culturally specific and psychologically significant. Among the common principles and procedures were hydrotherapy, heat therapy, spinal manipulation, quarantine, bone-setting and surgery. Incantations and other psychotherapeutic devices sometimes accompanied other techniques. The knowledge of specific medicinal plants was quite extensive in some knigdoms, empires, and city states such as Aksum, Pharaonic Egypt (in the Northeast), and Borgu (in Hausaland). The latter continues to be well known for orthopedics (bone-setting), as is the case of Funtua in Northern Nigeria. Many traditional techniques are still utilized in some areas. Others have undergone change over time, have been revived in more recent periods, or have fallen into oblivion. In Northeast Africa, numerous documents were written in Geez, Amharic, and hieroglyphics. These contain thousands of prescriptions for a wide range of diseases. The Edwin Smith Papyrus is useful for the Pharaonic Egyptian era, as earlier discussed. Unfortunately, scholars have been unable to decipher the Nubian Meriotic script. Oral tradition in conjunction with texts written in Arabic constitute the main sources of information on West Africa. CICIBA of Gabon has produced several works (largely in French) on medicine in the Bantu-speaking regions of Central and Southern Africa.
note- Medicine and surgery became the most advanced in WEST africa in before recent modern times. another point we are beginning to read early west african books in african languages too now,not just in arabic.it seems alot of writing happen too in west africa using african scripts using arabic letters that african further advanced. they even advanced the arabic script.keep in mind arabic script has a african origin anyway,created by a black arabian in arabia.arabic by theway is a afro-asian langange,and it's basially african.
Oh and berber/tuareg writing was in west africa too.
Day 3: Microbiology and Food Processing
Indigenous fermented foods in Africa have usually been derived from cassava tubers, cereal legumes, oil seeds, palm tree sap, milk, and various other local products. The scientific basis of indigenous food fermentation lies in the nature of the microorganisms involved in fermentation; the microbially induced changes of the base product; the nature of the enzymatic reactions which take place; and the specific nature of the end product in terms of nutritional and preservative qualities. A scientific process should be repeatable and open to scrutiny in such a way as to facilitate evaluation and perhaps further experimentation and research. Common to various parts of the continent are dehydrated granular food products that involve fermentation, frying, and dejuicing, or products such as sorghum, maize, or other cereals that may be fermented and made into alcoholic beverages. Food processors became aware of the significance of the various agencies by virtue of trial and error experimentation. Metallic objects have sometimes been used to hasten fermentation and in this case serve as trace elements, thus promoting the growth of the relevant microorganisms.
African civilization may be associated with specific methods of preparing and even consuming food items in ways that tend to reflect some measure of uniformity throughout the continent. Fast food items ranging from couscous to "qari," or cassava granules, various types of cereal-based flour, pulverized tubers of various kinds, and a wide variety of vegetable-based soups all give African cuisine a distinct character. It must be stressed that food preparation involves hypothesis formulation, the assumption of regularity in nature, and a measure of logical and predictive capability on the part of the food processor or agent associated with food preparation.
This seems to be an under-researched issue, in need of collaborative work among historians and microbiologists, nutritionists, and sociologists. Some work in this area has been done by Richard Okagbue, formerly of the University of Zimbabwe. Sources of information for culinary trends include: excavated sites; motifs on sculpture, carvings, and textile; oral history narratives, proverbs, popular literature, poetry, and incantations; travel reports, such as that of Ibn Battuta; research in African/Carribean and African-American culinary patterns for example, revealing pervasive use of gumbo, black-eyed peas, and cowpeas- and indigenous writings in Arabic (for example, the Abuja Chronicles).
Possible Topics for Student Research
1. Agronomic techniques and new crops taken by West Africans to the Americas. 2. African crops such as the oil palm, coffee and sorghum and their impact on Asia.
3. Herbal medicines selected for treatment of illnesses in various African regions.
4. The holistic African model of illness and disease.
5. Traditional surgical procedures and techniques in various parts of Africa. 6. Engineering and architectural skills in the building of the Egyptian and Nubian pyramids.
7. Ethiopian sculptured temples such as the Lalibela Churches of the 13th century. 8. Regions of ancient West Africa which developed indigenous suspension bridges.
9. Comparison of the ancient architectural styles of West Africa with that of Southern Africa.
10. African irrigation terraces in any two regions of West Africa.
11. Elements of modern calendar derived from the Egyptian calendar. 12. African cosmological thought permeating the culture and religion of various city states, kingdoms and empires.
13. The naming of constellations by the Ancient Malians.
14. Techniques of counting and calculation in African societies. 15 The vigesimal system in Yoruba mathematics. 16. Indigenous metallurgy with respect to iron and steel in East Africa.
17. Role of women in the production of West African textiles such as adire, sanyan, adinkra and kente.
18. Food processing techniques and indigenous fermented beverages.
19. Perceptions of time and space in various parts of Africa.
20. Five scientific works authored by 19th century scientists.
21. Interconnections between religion and science in West Africa.
22. Biographical notes on Nigerian scientists such as the mathematician Chike Obi.
23. Comparing the aggregate mileage in ancient West African terraces and earthworks.
24. Intellectual property rights and African indigenous practitioners.
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Ghana A rich and powerful gold kingdom.
"He is the richest sovereign on Earth." -Ibn Hawkel, 10th century North African geographer on Ghana's king
Mali An empire larger than Western Europe. Its prosperity and morality gave the empire great international prestige.
"It's inhabitants are rich and live comfortably." -Mahmud Kati, famous medieval Syrian scholar
Songhay An Empire larger than Mali that was renowned for its scholarly culture and complex government.
"(Surpassed) all other Negroes in wit, civility, and industry." -Leo Africanuas, 16th Century Spanish Moor
Kongo A provincial government with an advanced system of checks and balances.
Zimbabwe A feudal kingdom that has obtained fame for its large stone structures.
Swahili Coast A very advanced merchant civilization that traded with India, China, the Mid East, the interior of Africa, and North Africa.
Bornu One of the longest lasting kingdoms of all time. Renowned and feared for its armored knights and cavalry.
Benin (AD 13th-19th) A highly organized forest kingdom that had much direct interaction with the first Portuguese merchants. They are renowned for their naturalistic art.
Ethiopia, in the Middle ages A highly advanced Christian civilization known for its military might, close relationship with the Portuguese and magnificent architecture.
Ancient Nubia One of the world's most powerful ancient kingdoms; it halted the Roman, Greek, Assyrian, and Persian conquerors- it even ruled over Egypt for a time. It built pyramids, palaces, and other great architectural feats. It also developed its own written language.
Ancient Aksum (Ethiopia) One of the richest and most powerful kingdoms in ancient times; it even ruled over Southern Arabia for several centuries. It is known for inventing the first castle and developing its own written language.
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Black and White Morality
"For the Ethiopians (Greek and Roman name for all Negroid people) are said to be the justest men and for that reason the gods leave their abode frequently to visit them."
-Lactantius Placidus, a 6th century AD grammarian
"The Negroes are of all peoples those who most abhor injustice…Complete and general safety one enjoys throughout the land (Mali Empire in West Africa)."
Ibn Battua, 14th century Arab scholar who had traveled to China, India, East Africa, North Africa, and finally Mali.
Many people believe that blacks are innately more inclined to act immorally and less able to control their behavior. Many cite the inner cities and Africa as proof. Does history disprove that stereotype? Without a doubt is does; before the Atlantic slave trade foreigners regularly commented on Negroes moral character and love for justice.
Ancient Attitudes on Black Morality Europe's first written stories highlight the Ethiopian's (Greek and Roman name for all black people) morality and noble character. In the Iliad, Homer--explaining why the Olympian Gods loved the Ethiopians more than any other people and visited them for an annual twelve day feast--described blacks as, "Blameless Ethiopians." Homer also wrote: For Zeus had yesterday to Ocean's bounds Set forth to feast with Ethiopia's faultless men, And he was followed there by all the gods…4
Memnon, the "King of the Ethiopians," who came to the aid of Priam at Troy, is shown as having an unusually noble character; In battle he slays Antilochus, then, in one of the more sympathetic moments of the epic, spares Antilochus's defenseless father. Memnon later became a hero in Greece, Egypt, Nubia, and Meroe (a powerful black kingdom in Ethiopia and the Sudan). Alexander the Great even wanted to visit the Kingdom of Meroe because it was believed to be the birthplace of Memnon. In Egypt's southern city of Thebes there were two colossi of Memnon, both built by Ethiopians. One of the two colossi attracted a large number of tourists; many believing that it sang at dawn. Callistratus, an Athenian statesman and orator, regarded the colssi as a miracle that surpassed even the skill needed to build the masterpiece of Daedalus."8 At sunrise Egyptians in Memphis made sacrifices to the statue of the Negro king.
Odysseus's herald Eurybates, who Homer described as having black skin and woolly hair, had an extraordinarily noble character; the hero Odysseus held him in higher esteem than anyone else because he believed they had similar minds.
Interpreting the Homeric references about the Ethiopians Diodorus, a famous ancient Sicilian historian, wrote:
"And they say that they (Ethiopians) were the first to be taught to honor the gods and to hold sacrifices and festivals and processions and festivals and the other rites by which men honor the deity; and that in consequence their piety has been published abroad among all men, and it is generally held that the sacrifices practiced among the Ethiopians are those which are the most pleasing to heaven. As witness to this they call upon the poet who is perhaps the oldest and certainly the most venerated among the Greeks; for in the Iliad he represents both Zeus and the rest of the gods with him as absent on a visit to Ethiopia to share in the sacrifices and the banquet which were given annually to the Ethiopians for all the gods together….And they state that by reason of their piety towards the deity, they manifestly enjoy the favor of the gods, inasmuch as they have never experienced the rule of an invader from abroad; for from all time they have enjoyed a state of freedom and of peace one with another, and although many and powerful rulers have made war upon them, not one of these has succeeded in his undertaking."
Many other famous Greco-Roman writers commented on the Ethiopians' piety. Dionysius, like Homer, wrote that the Ethiopians were godlike and blameless. Aelian believed that Ethiopia is where the gods bathed." Stobaeus recorded that the Ethiopians do not need doors on their homes and do not steal the possessions that their neighbors leave in the street. In one of Heliodorus's plays an Ethiopian king, Hydaspes, is a model of morality and justice. The king does not condemn people to death, and sends out messengers to tell his military troops not slaughter the enemy, but to let them live when they have been defeated. The king proclaimed, "A noble thing it is to surpass an enemy in battle when he is standing but in generosity when he has fallen." Lactantius Placidus, a 6th century AD grammarian wrote, "Certainly they (Ethiopians) are loved by the gods because of justice. This even Homer indicates in the first book by the fact that Jupiter frequently leaves heaven and feasts with them because of their justice and the equity of their customs. For the Ethiopians are said to be the justest men and for that reason the gods leave their abode frequently to visit them." In the second century AD a marble sarcophagus, commemorating the triumph of the God Bacchus, used two Negro boys as symbols of innocence. In a Greek play about Alexander the Great, an Ethiopian queen told Alexander: "we are whiter and brighter in our souls than the whitest of you."
The religion of Ethiopian immigrants, Isiac, spread throughout the Greco-Roman world because of the Ethiopians renowned piety. The Greek and Roman adherents of Isiac were excited to learn from Merotic immigrants. Juvenal, a 1st and 2nd century A.D Roman satirical poet, recorded that some wealthy Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Isiac noblemen even made a pilgrimage to Meroe in order to obtain its holy water."
In the ancient and medieval Arab-world Nubian slaves were often used as financial assistants because they were thought of as honest and trustworthy."
A 9th century biography on the prophet Muhammad, by Ibn Hisham, tells of a story where Muhammad instructs those who are being persecuted in Mecca to "go to Abyssinian (Ethiopia), you will find a king under whom none are persecuted. It is a land of righteousness where God will give you relief from what you are suffering."
Ancient Attitudes on White Morality White people, on the other hand, were not given such high praise. The ancient people of Greece and Rome believed that the pale skinned people to their north, with their long and yellow, brown, and red hair, were immoral and inferior savages--just as intensely as whites would later regard blacks.
The Greek geographer, Strabo, writing about the 7th century Celts, commented: "Concerning this island, I have nothing further to tell…except that its inhabitants are more savage than the Britons, since they are man-eaters…they count it an honorable thing, when their fathers die, to devour them, and openly to have intercourse with their mothers and sisters."
Diodoros wrote the following about a white clan he visited: "It is their custom, enduring the course of the meal, to seize upon any trivial matter as an occasion for disputation and then to challenge one another to single combat, without any regard for their lives."
The Greek traveler-writer Pausanias, after witnessing a ritual where the Arkadians--a people to the north of Rome--killed, dismembered, and devoured children, had this reaction: "I was reluctant to pry into the details of this sacrifice…Let them be as they are and were from the beginning."
Writing about the Gauls, located in modern day France, Caesar recorded: "They believe that the execution of those who have been caught in the act of theft or robbery or some crime is more pleasing to the immortal gods, but when the supply of such fails they resort to the execution of the innocent."
Herodotus, the famous 5th century BC historian--often called the "The Father of History"--recorded some of the many savage practices of the Sythians, a people in modern Russia. One of the practices consisted of sowing together the scalps of people whom they had had a confrontation with in order to make a cloak: "The Scyth is proud of these scalps and hangs them from his bridle-rein…The greater the number of such napkins that a man can show the more highly is he esteemed among them….They treat the skulls of their kinsmen in the same way, in cases where quarrels have occurred….When important visitors arrive, these skulls are passed around and the host tells the story of them: how they were once his relatives and made war against him, and how he defeated them--all of which passes for a proof of courage."
Plato, just as white supremacist would later feel about dark skinned people, believed a war against those northern barbarians existed by nature.
Medieval Attitudes on Black Morality
The high esteem the ancients held blacks carried on into the Middle Ages. Ibn Battuta, writing about the 14th century West African Kingdom of Mali, recorded: "The small number of acts of injustice that one finds there, for the Negroes are of all peoples those who most abhor injustice…Complete and general safety one enjoys throughout the land."26 Furthermore, he recorded that; "Their sultan shows no mercy to anyone who is guilty of the least act of it. There is complete security in the country. Neither traveler nor inhabitant in it has anything to fear from robbers or men of violence. They do not confiscate the property of any white (meaning Arab) man who dies in their country, even if it be uncounted wealth. On the contrary, they give it into the charge of some trustworthy person among the whites (Arabs), until the rightful heir takes possession of it."
Writing in 1622 about the Kingdom of Benin, a Dutchman, Olfert Dapper, recorded that, "These Negroes…are people who have good laws and a well-organized police; who live on good terms with the Dutch and other foreigners who come to trade among them, and to whom they show a thousand marks of friendship."
In the 1480's the king of Benin sent an ambassador to Portugal who was described by the Portuguese as, "a man of good speech and natural wisdom" who, "desired to learn more about these lands." They said that, "the arrival of people from…his country being regarded as an unusual novelty."
Portugal and Benin had excellent relations. Duarte Pires, a royal agent in Benin, wrote in 1516, "The favour which the king of Benin accords us is due to his love of your highness; and thus he pays us high honour and sets us at table to dine with his son, and no part of his court is hidden from us but all the doors are open." Pires also recorded that the king of Benin, "ordered a church to be built in Benin; and they made them Christians straightway; and also they are teaching them to read, and your highness will be very pleased to know that they are very good learners."
A European traveler around 1680 recorded that the people of the Guinea Coast are, "very civil and good-natured people, easy to be dealt with, condescending to what Europeans require of them in a civil way, and very ready to return double the presents we make them."
Following a visit to the court of the Ugandan king in 1875, Henry Morton Stanley wrote that the king was neither, "tyrannous savage," nor "wholesale murderer," as had been told in European fables, "but a pious Mussulman and an intelligent humane king reigning absolutely over a vast section of Africa, loved more than hated, respected more than feared."
Heinrich Barth, a 19th century German traveler, recorded that in the Nigerian town of Kano, "a whole family may live in that country with ease, including every expense, even that of clothing." All too familiar with the terrible conditions of the Victorian sweatshops in Europe, Barth wrote: "If we consider that this industry (textile manufacturing) is not carried on here as in Europe, in immense establishment degrading man to the meanest condition of life, but that it gives employment and support to families without compelling them to sacrifice their domestic habits, we must presume that Kano ought to be one of the happiest countries in the world; and so it is so long as its governor, too often lazy and indolent, is able to defend its inhabitants from the cupidity of their neighbors, which of course is certainly stimulated by the very wealth of this country."
Clearly, the ancient and medieval sources destroy the myth that black people are naturally inclined to act immorally or without reflection.
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Mungo Park, passing through the Bambara capital of Ségou two years after Diarra's 1795 death, recorded a testament to the Empire's prosperity:
The view of this extensive city, the numerous canoes on the river, the crowded population, and the cultivated state of the surrounding countryside, formed altogether a prospect of civilization and magnificence that I little expected to find in the bosom of Africa.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
Timbuktu journey to the empire of knowledge.
Imagine a city in 16th century West Africa where thousands of Black African students pondered over the latest ideas in science, mathematics, and medicine. A fabled town(city) in the middle of the scorching desert, overflowing with countless numbers of valuable books, expensive crafts, exquisite fabrics, and unrivalled gold jewelry! Imagine a community of highly cultured, wealthy people whose forbidden streets were the subject of legends and whose ochre walls were sought after by some of the greatest adventurers of the times.
For most people, this notion is as remote as saying, “I’m going to Timbuktu!” Yet West African people and the Berbers of the Sahara desert knew such a place and took pride in being connected to it in any way possible.
Timbuktu in the sixteenth century was all of this and more! Its fabled streets were the home of one of the most respected universities in the world and its intellectuals reached the pinnacle of earthly scholarship and spiritual development. Its commercial networks stretched from below the Niger River to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the Atlantic Ocean to the Arabian Peninsula. Timbuktu was the most famous meeting place of the camel and the canoe, where the highest grade gold was exchanged for salt, cloth and other essential items.
How did this fabulous city of commerce and scholarship appear on the shores of the Sahara desert? What became of its wealth of knowledge and material goods? A journey into present day Timbuktu may very well reveal some of the answers.
To the Muslim world, the rulers of Mali had revealed another form of wealth. Timbuktu had become a centre of learning and a producer and exporter of rare and valuable Islamic books. Famous Muslim travelers like Ibn Battuta and Hasan al-Wazan (Leo Africanus) visited Timbuktu and were amazed at the high level of scholarship and the insatiable love for the study of the Arabic language and the Blessed Qur’an. Hasan al-Wazan wrote:
Timbuktu was a principal staging point along the pilgrimage route to Makkah and thus, became a central point for scholars and travelers to the Middle East and a perfect base for the dissemination of Islamic knowledge and ideas. Thousands of manuscripts were stored in private collections and copied by local scribes for use in the many institutions of learning.
The first non-Muslim to enter the city on April 20, 1828 was the French explorer Rene Caille who was disappointed at the state of the buildings of Timbuktu but noted that “apparently all of the population could read the Qur’an and even know it by heart.” The golden age had passed but the spirit of scholarship and piety still remained.
Timbuktu with its thousands of manuscripts and its deep legacy destroys racist notions of Black inferiority and educational backwardness. Timbuktu gives solid proof of a powerful African past and an unbroken chain of African scholarship. Timbuktu also brings out Islam’s great legacy of development in Africa and its proper place in the annals of African achievement. It’s well preserved lessons of spirituality and peace making may very well hold some of the answers to today’s complex problems of war and never ending conflict. Maybe the heat of the desert sands and the emptiness of its expanse can provide direction for the African Renaissance and even the whole human race.
Timbuktu has been designated by the African Union as one of the most important African heritage sites and has become a special building initiative of the government of South Africa. Timbuktu’s legacy refutes the racist notion of African ineriority and inability to record information. The knowledge of this history will also become a valuable tool for the Daa-íyyah who is calling to Allah in the Southern African Rennaisance of economic, cultural and political liberation.
According to ‘Ali Ould Sidi and many historians of the region.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks, this will be my last reply to the deranged individual posting as Ish Gebor aka "The Explorer".
Your insatiable desire for Africans to be at the bottom rung of the racial junk science that you lap up like a dog from your white masters is beyond pathetic and requires some form of psychiatric treatment that I cannot provide.
You should contact your HMO and see what treatment options are available to you.
Goodbye, I will not be responding back. As a matter of fact within a week I will be away from this forum again like I have for the past 2 months. Only this time I will not be returning. It is a waste of life being around a bunch of losers obsessed with the false concept of race. Saying the same things day in and day out.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^^ Ignoring the psycho above...
quote:Originally posted by Impertinent: There has never been a civilization before Christ in Africa. Thank the white man who came to strip them of tribalism, cannibalism and ignorance.
The notion that Sub-Saharan Africans never had civilization was debunked in the past 7 pages of this very thread. Why now would this idiot repeat such nonsense let alone the lie of "cannibalism". As far as tribalism is concerned, most Sub-Saharans were organized into complex political systems like nations states when most Euros during Medieval times were still living in tribes. So I suggest ye get educated with African history first starting by reading this thread.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Folks, this will be my last reply to the deranged individual posting as Ish Gebor aka "The Explorer".
Your insatiable desire for Africans to be at the bottom rung of the racial junk science that you lap up like a dog from your white masters is beyond pathetic and requires some form of psychiatric treatment that I cannot provide.
You should contact your HMO and see what treatment options are available to you.
Goodbye, I will not be responding back. As a matter of fact within a week I will be away from this forum again like I have for the past 2 months. Only this time I will not be returning. It is a waste of life being around a bunch of losers obsessed with the false concept of race. Saying the same things day in and day out.
Indeed I have waited for the last two months......and this will likely remain this way for ever. Since you have no crumble of evidence. Just some psuedo factors far from taken seriously.
Repost,
Keep believing in your little crazy fantasies.
In the meanwhile provide credible and VALID databases (who of your claims)....I have been waiting for almost 6 months. Yet still nothing....speaking of pseudo lol.....idiot.
Your mind is as steady as those broken links you've provided.
Where is the evidence, other than your racist pseudo theory, trying to minimize the suffering and horific experience of these Africans who had to endure the middle passage. Killed, thrown over board etc...
Fact is black/ African women were raped by European men.
Another fact is that non-Africans were taken to the Americas as substitutes for Africans. After the abolishment. These groups received land, payment had their original culture, names and access to many benefits. Not to say that there aren't cases were it took a slightly different route. but mostly not so.
And the reports are there of the trans Atlantic slave trade.
I suspect you show me some, since you are the expert on slavery. Since you seem to be obsessed by the word slavery.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: So a question to the Afrocentrics:
Why has Sub-Sahara Africa never have a civilization?
Go there today and it is still mud huts. When Europeans first ventured through this region all they found were primitive blacks in mud huts. And now hundreds of years later - nothing has changed.
So why is the HOMELAND of black africans never had a civilization?
Perhaps this explains why Afrocentrics are so obsessed with trying to steal white or asian history because they have nothing of their own?
Jenne-jeno, an ancient African city
Susan Keech McIntosh and Roderick J. McIntosh
Roderick and Susan McIntosh excavated at Jenne-jeno and neighboring sites in 1977 and 1981 and returned in 1994 for coring and more survey, with funding from the National Science Foundation of the United States, the American Association of University Women, and the National Geographic Society (1994). This research formed the basis of their Ph.D. dissertations at Cambridge University and the University of California at Santa Barbara, respectively. The McIntoshes have published two monographs and numerous articles on their archaeological research in the Middle Niger. They are professors of anthropology at Rice University in Houston, Texas, and they continue to collaborate with Malian colleagues from the Institut des Sciences Humaines on research along the Middle Niger.
For centuries, the upper Inland Niger Delta of the Middle Niger between modern Mopti and Segou has been a vital crossroads for trade. Historical sources, such as the 1828 account of the French explorer Rene Caillié, as well as local Tarikhs (histories written in Arabic) detail for us the central role that Jenne played in the commercial activities of the Western Sudan during the last 500 years. The seventeenth century author of the Tarikh es-Sudan, al-Sadi, wrote that "it is because of this blessed town that camel caravans come to Timbuktu from all points of the horizon". In the famous "Golden Trade of the Moors", gold from mines far to the south was transported overland to Jenne, then trans-shipped on broad-bottom canoes (pirogues) to Timbuktu, and thence by camel to markets in North Africa and Europe. Leo Africanus reported in 1512 that the extensive boat trade on the Middle Niger involved massive amounts of cereals and dried fish shipped from Jenne to provision arid Timbuktu. Today, the stunning mud architecture of Jenne in distinctive Sudanic style is a legacy of its early trade ties with North Africa. Three kilometers to the southeast, the large mound called Jenne-jeno (ancient Jenne) or Djoboro (Pl. 1) is claimed by oral traditions as the original settlement of Jenne. Barren and carpeted by a thick layer of broken pottery, Jenne-jeno lay mute for decades, its history and significance totally unknown. Scientific excavations in the 1970's and 1980's revealed that the mound is composed of over five meters of debris accumulated during sixteen centuries of occupation that began c. 200 B.C.E. These excavations, in addition to more than doubling the period of known history for this region, provided some surprises regarding the local development of society. The results indicated that earlier assumptions about the emergence of complex social organization in urban settlements and the development of long-distance trade as innovations appearing only after the arrival of the Arabs in North Africa in the seventh and eighth centuries were incorrect. The archaeology of Jenne- jeno and the surrounding area clearly showed an early, indigenous growth of trade and social complexity. The importance of this discovery has resulted in the entry of Jenne- jeno, along with Jenne, on the list of UNESCO World Heritage sites.
The early settlement at Jenne-jeno.
It appears that permanent settlement first became possible in the upper Inland Niger Delta in about the third century B.C.E. Prior to that time, the flood regime of the Niger was apparently much more active, meaning that the annual floodwaters rose higher and perhaps stayed longer than they do today, such that there was no high land that regularly escaped inundation. Under these wetter circumstances, diseases carried by insects, especially tsetse fly, would have discouraged occupation. Between 200 B.C.E. and 100 C.E., the Sahel experienced significant dry episodes, that were part of the general drying trend seriously underway since 1000 B.C.E. Prior to that time, significant numbers of herders and farmers lived in what is today the southern Sahara desert, where they raised cattle, sheep and goat, grew millet, hunted, and fished in an environment of shallow lakes and grassy plains. As the environment became markedly drier after 1000 B.C.E., these populations moved southward with their stock in search of more reliable water sources. Oral traditions of groups from the Serer and Wolof of Senegal to the Soninke of Mali trace their origins back to regions of southern Mauritania that are now desert. As these stone-tool-using populations slowly moved along southward-draining river systems, they found various more congenial environments. One of these was the great interior floodplain of the Middle Niger, with its rich alluvial soil and a flood regime that was well-suited to the cultivation of rice. The earliest deposits, nearly six meters deep at Jenne- jeno (Pl. 2) have yielded the hulls of domesticated rice, sorghum, millet, and various wild swamp grasses. The population that settled at Jenne-jeno used and worked iron, fashioning the metal into both jewelry and tools. This is interesting , since there are no sources of iron ore in the floodplain. The earliest inhabitants of Jenne-jeno were already trading with areas outside the region. They also imported stone grinders and beads. The presence of two Roman or Hellenistic beads in the early levels suggests that a few very small trade goods were reaching West Africa, probably after changing hands through many intermediaries. We have not detected any evidence of influences from the Mediterranean world on the local societies at this time.
The original settlement appears to have occurred on a small patch of relatively high ground, and was probably restricted to a few circular huts of straw coated with mud daub. We find many pieces of burnt daub with mat impressions on them in the earliest levels. The pottery associated with this early material is from small, finely-made vessels with thin walls. Artifacts and housing material of this kind persist until c. 450 C.E., occurring over progressive larger area of Jenne-jeno. This indicates that the site was growing larger. In fact, by 450 C.E., the settlement had expanded to at least 25 hectares (over 60 acres).
Jenne-jeno's floruit: 450-1100 C.E.
In the deposits dated from the fifth century, there are definite indications that the organization of society is changing. We find organized cemeteries, with interments in large burial urns (Pl. 3) as well as inhumations outside of urns in simple pits, on the edge of the settlement. From an excavation unit on the western edge of Jenne-jeno, we found evidence that the site was enlarged by quarrying clay from the floodplain and mounding it at the edge of the site New trade items appear, such as copper, imported from sources a minimum of several hundred kilometers away, and gold from even more distance mines. A smithy was installed near one of our central excavation units around 800 C.E. to mold copper and bronze into ornaments, and to forge iron. Smithing continued in this locale for the next 600 years, suggesting that craftsmen had become organized in castes and operated in specific locales, much as we see in Jenne today.
The round houses at Jenne-jeno were constructed with tauf, or puddled mud, foundations, from the fifth to the ninth century. During this time, the settlement continued to grow, reaching its maximum area of 33 hectares by 850 C.E. We know that this is so because sherds of the distinctive painted pottery that was produced at Jenne-jeno only between 450-850 C.E. are present in all our excavation units, even those near the edge of the mound. And we find them at the neighboring mound of Hambarketolo, too, suggesting that these two connected sites totaling 41 hectares (100 acres) functioned as part of a single town complex (Pl. 4) . In the ninth century, two noticeable changes occur (Pl. 5) : tauf house foundations are replaced by cylindrical brick architecture, and painted pottery is replaced by pottery with impressed and stamped decoration. The source of these novelties is unknown, although we can say that they did not involve any fundamental shift in the form or general layout of either houses or pottery. So it is unlikely that any major change in the ethnic composition of Jenne-jeno was associated with the changes. Change with continuity was the prevailing pattern. One of the earliest structures built using the new cylindrical brick technology (Pl. 6) was apparently the city wall, which was 3.7 meters wide at its base and ran almost two kilometers around the town. All these indications of increasingly complex social organization are particularly important in helping us understand the indigenous context of the Empire of Ghana, an influential confederation that consolidated power within large areas to the north and west of the Inland Niger Delta sometime after 500 C.E.. To date, Jenne-jeno provides our only insight into the nature of change and complexity in the Sahel prior to the establishment of the trans-Saharan trade. Although some excavations have been conducted at the presumed capital of Ghana, Kumbi Saleh (in southeastern Mauritania), these focused on the stone-built ruins dating to the period of the trans-Saharan trade. As we currently understand the archaeology of the entire Jenne region, where over 60 archaeological sites rise from the floodplain within a 4 kilometer radius of the modern town (Pl. 7) , many of these sites were occupied at the time of Jenne-jeno's floruit between 800-1000 C.E.. We have suggested that this extraordinary settlement clustering resulted from a clumping of population around a rare conjunction of highly desirable features (Pl. 8) : excellent rice-growing soils, levees for pasture in the flood season, deep basin for pasture in the dry season and access to both major river channels and the entire inland system of secondary and tertiary marigots from communication and trade.
Decline: C.E. 1200-1400
In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, the first unambiguous evidence of North African or Islamic influences appears at Jenne-jeno in the form of brass, spindle whorls, and rectilinear houses. This occurs within a century of the traditional date of 1180 C.E. for the conversion of Jenne's king (Koi) Konboro to Islam, according to the Tarikh es-Sudan. After this point, Jenne-jeno begins a 200-year long period of decline and gradual abandonment, before it becomes a ghost town by 1400. We can speculate that Jenne-jeno declined at the expense of Jenne, perhaps related to the ascendancy of the new religion, Islam, over traditional practice. The continued practice of urn burial at Jenne-jeno through the fourteenth century tells us that many of the site's occupants did not convert to Islam. The production of terracotta statuettes in great numbers throughout the period and even into the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries elsewhere in the Inland Niger Delta may mark loci of resistance, within the context of traditional religious practice, to Islam or the leaders who practiced it. Whatever the cause of Jenne-jeno's abandonment, it was part of a larger process whereby most of the settlements occupied around Jenne in 1000 C.E. lay deserted by 1400. What caused such a realignment of the local population? Again, we can only speculate. Some people likely converted to Islam and moved to Jenne, where wealth and commercial opportunities were increasingly concentrated. But there is also the fact that the climate grew increasingly dry from 1200 C.E., causing tremendous political upheavals further north, and prompting virtual abandonment of whole regions (e.g., the Mema, studied by Malian archaeologist Tereba Togola) that could no longer sustain herds and agriculture. Some, if not all, of these factors were probably implicated in the decline of Jenne-jeno.
Jenne-jeno is easy to reach from Jenne, and its surface traces of ancient houses and pottery are evocative of its rich history. Peering into the deep erosion gullies that scar the surface, one literally looks backward in time over 1000 years.
Isn't it interesting how the egypt beez blak crowd are three times more adament than the race loons about Africans being regarded as slaves.
Look at Ish Gebors aka Troll Patrol aka The Explorer aka "MA DICK"'s postings throughout this thread.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the "anjunct ejupt beez blak" crowd are no different than the white race nut cases. It is just that they don't like to be shut away from "anjunt ejupt".
They believe in the fruitcake racial mythologies just as much as the padded cell racists. Just see Ish Gebor's postings in this thread.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Even Ish Gebor aka Troll Patrol aka The Explorer cannot excuse his own racially demented views that are plain as day. He sees he has been exposed.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: You will also find that in many cases people who were brought to the Americas as slaves and were not African, were often called mullato or "even" negro.
Negro and mullato were catch terms used by some slavers to fend off criticism in the late 18th century and throughout the 19th century for enslaving obvious non-Africans. Just call them mullato (part sub-human) or negro (full sub-human) and you have a justification for that person's enslavement.
This is true and well known for people from Asia, like the Chinese, native Americans and East Indians, but not for swarthy Scots, Irish or Germans.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse:
^Unlike Africa, native American nations were still largely, if not completely neolithic. Metals were not used for tools or weaponry but only for ornamentation. So technically Africa was not on the same level as the Americas.
^^Only partly true. The Inca actually are documented as working metals, primarily bronze, for tools like axes and knives, and some weapons, like bronze star- shaped war clubs. See: Pre-Columbian metallurgy of South America: a conference at Dumbarton Oaks ... By Elizabeth P. Benson, Dumbarton Oaks
and- quote:
"The Incas' preferred weapon was a stone or bronze star mace mounted on a wooden handle about 1 m long." --Terence D'Altroy. The Incas. 2003
----------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote: Powerful medieval African economies were in fact more economically advanced than Europeans of the same era and were integrated into dominant global trade-networks that eluded Europeans. It was only after the breakdown of African (Moors) stronghold in the Iberian peninsula, and the ensuing power struggle and infighting in western Africa, that early European imperialist from the Iberian peninsula saw and took an opportunity to shift the pre-existing trade-network apparatus to their own advantage. Eventual succumbing to economic-strangling by colonialism was actually by and large responsible for any so-called "technological gaps" between many African nations and western European colonial nations in the colonial and post-colonial era rather than any pre-colonial condition.
Indeed. A number of historians such as B. Vandervort- "Wars of Imperial COnquest" note that many African militaries generally held their own well into the 19th century. Advanced technology like modern rifles, gatling guns, artillery etc brought defeat in some battles, but the main factor was often not advanced weaponry, but the fragmentation of African polities that allowed them to be defeated separately. Inter-tribal cooperation over a wide area in attritional protracted guerrilla war could have stymied some colonial conquests. Samori Toure is an example of success for several years, but he was fighting internal African opponents AND the French at the same time, including scorched earth tactics on all the territories he operated in, making a huge wide area campaign difficult to sustain. Likewise the Zulu did comparatively well but could only field a limited number of effectives in a relatively confined area. A tribal confederation from the Cape to Transvaal, where Xhosa, Zulu, Swazi, Pedi, and Basotho engaged the imperialist forces across a wide area, and helped each other logistically, might have created a different outcome in Southern Africa.
........
In any event, Europe has been a massive borrower and copier and beneficiary of technologies developed by non-Europeans- from the key plant and animal domesticates of the Neolithic tropicals, to the improvements in mettalurgy, pottery, construction etc down the ages, often introduced by said tropicals. The Greeks did what they did mostly on imported, not home grown technology. As the centuries rolled by there was the Arab era, again, benefitting Europe as technology from the east moved Westward to be adapted, copied and eventually improved, including advances in knowledge (the concept of zero for example is from India, algebra from the Middle East), and numerous other advanced methods in steelmaking, mining, engineering etc etc.
And neither writing or the wheel are native to Europe. Europeans borrowed and copied them from other peoples. The first appearance of the functional wheel for example is in Mesopotamia circa 5500 BC - a time when the people there resembled tropical Africans. And the wheel as used in pottery or toys was well known in all regions of Africa long before, as was the wheeled vehicle in areas where heavy loads had to be hauled, and the terrain, disease vectors, and big healthy domesticated animals suitable for harnessing justified its use. (Shaping world history: breakthroughs in ecology, technology, ... by Mary Allerton Kilbourne Matossian 1997).
As you note, Ghana and Mali had a standard of living higher than or equal to contemporary medieval Europe. Wealth was certainly greater than many European kingdoms and empires of the time. The gold reserves controlled by Mansa Musa and his successors is but one example.
And the west did not "invent" democracy, capitalism and science. Most in the Greco-Roman empires could not vote. Most of Sparta's people for example were semi-slaves, the helots, not "citizens", and the vast number of slaves in the Greco Roman world makes claims of “democracy” suspect. Likewise, "capitalism" - the fundamental operation of free trade and exchange, and free deployment of land, labor, management and capital for economic gain - is as old as human commerce. And "science" has been around long before Europe emerged out of being a backwater region. See for example the book: "Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science--from the Babylonians to the Maya by Dick Teresi (Oct 1, 2003). He shows that so called "western" science, is a product of innnovations and discoveries going back centuries before there was even the entity named 'Europe".
Powered machinery in not a European invention, nor gearing, nor gunpowder, nor the printing press, nor the compass, nor paper, nor writing, nor several key technologies, as noted in Joseph Needham’s massive work “Science and Civilisation in China.” Even steam-powered devices were independently developed in China. As noted above, Europeans freely borrowed and copied what had already been developed by tropical and sub-tropical peoples, and others like the Chinese. Even the alphabet used by Europeans was developed by people from somewhere else- based on modified scripts developed by Egyptian scribes as shown by Yale scholar Richard Darnell (Sacks 2003). Even Europe’s primary religion today, was not developed in Europe, but is a product of migrants from the sub-tropical “Middle East.”
And Europeans are beneficiaries of geograpical windfalls in that important technological and cultural advances (from key animal and plant domestication- cows or wheat for example, to literacy, to advanced mettalurgy and a host of other items) were put in place first by non-Europeans, and then imported along an easy East-West climate axis, for Europeans to cash in on the windfall, without having to do the hard, initial, original work themselves. Hence the cow or horse or wheat could be domesticated elsewhere, then move along an easy climatic path to be reproduced in Europe- in like manner, men, material and ideas- the initial advance or innovation- having already been achieved outside Europe - which reaps the windfall benefit.
Such geographical windfalls for Europe are shown in detail in Jared Diamond's 1997 Guns, Germs and Steel. Other writers such as Sowell 1981 note further geographic windfalls such as navigable river systems and harbor-friendly coastlines that enabled the spread of non-European derived ideas, technology and innovation. Such 'unearned' geographic windfalls enabled Europeans to be huge borrowers from, and copiers of other peoples par excellence, even in cultural products nowadays deemed "European", such as the massively influential Christian religion.
Did Europe copy and borrow and also add its own inventions, creations and innovations? Of course. It gets credit. But let us lay to rest the nonsensical picture of Europe as some super creator of civilization outof the blue. Such propaganda may play well among “the white faithful” on “biodiversity” websites, but it will be knocked outta the park here on ES. If we are goona talk "civilization" then it may be well argued that Europe is a massive copier and borrower from other peoples, and enjoyed easy, geographic windfalls that facilitated such copying and borrowing.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Even Ish Gebor aka Troll Patrol aka The Explorer cannot excuse his own racially demented views that are plain as day. He sees he has been exposed.
lol at this NUL above, have I or have I not asked to show me peer reviewed sources on your claims? lol
Up till now I have not seen it. It been almost a year ago. For the acceptance of a pseudo PDF file and a what if and probebly theory. lol
Whereas I have backed up all of what I have claimed with credible sources. And even international databases on slavery, including slave ship.
Anyway,
The jealous, unintelligent, untalented and hateful dumb piece of sh*t above doesn't know that Abdul Rahman Ibrahim a Senegalese Prince, is actually the story by Alex Haley's book ROOTS.
He just criticizes anybody and everything as way to make money, aka a hustle. So he swings his arms left and right in hopes he may hit, something?looool
Here you can see him being destroyed by Jazz R&B composer James Mtume.
Composer James Mtume Destroys Jazz Critic Stanley Crouch in a Debate about Miles Davis
In other areas he, stanley crouch gets destroyed too. Like in history, anthropology, archaeology, egyptology, population genetics etc...
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
Augustin F.C. Holl et al.
Museum of Anthropology, The University of Michigan, 2009.
Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP)
Abstract
The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history.
For more, here is an excellent thread by Jari, elaborating on this particular aspect.
Anthropology Unit of the University of Geneva: Ounjougou
The Neolithic at Ounjougou is represented by three broad and distinct phases of settlement, marked by significant techno-economic and cultural changes.
Between 9,500 and 7,000 BC, the Early Neolithic saw the precocious emergence of pottery, which appeared at the same time as the development of a strategies for selective and intensive foraging for grains in a landscape of vast grassy plains. The Middle Neolithic is particularly known for a technological aspect – the specialized production of bifacial points on quartzitic sandstone, dated between the 6th and 4th millennia BC.
The Late Neolithic is associated with pronounced cultural and economic changes, with the influence around 2,500 BC of populations arriving from the Sahara, followed by the arrival after 1,800 BC of the first millet cultivators in the region (see the article "The Late Neolithic").
The Neolithic of the Dogon Plateau ended around 300 BC, with the onset of an extremely arid climatic episode.
Rice University Susan Keech McIntosh and Roderick J. McIntosh
Roderick and Susan McIntosh excavated at Jenne-jeno and neighboring sites in 1977 and 1981 and returned in 1994 for coring and more survey, with funding from the National Science Foundation of the United States, the American Association of University Women, and the National Geographic Society (1994). This research formed the basis of their Ph.D. dissertations at Cambridge University and the University of California at Santa Barbara, respectively. The McIntoshes have published two monographs and numerous articles on their archaeological research in the Middle Niger. They are professors of anthropology at Rice University in Houston, Texas, and they continue to collaborate with Malian colleagues from the Institut des Sciences Humaines on research along the Middle Niger.
For centuries, the upper Inland Niger Delta of the Middle Niger between modern Mopti and Segou has been a vital crossroads for trade. Historical sources, such as the 1828 account of the French explorer Rene Caillié, as well as local Tarikhs (histories written in Arabic) detail for us the central role that Jenne played in the commercial activities of the Western Sudan during the last 500 years. The seventeenth century author of the Tarikh es-Sudan, al-Sadi, wrote that "it is because of this blessed town that camel caravans come to Timbuktu from all points of the horizon". In the famous "Golden Trade of the Moors", gold from mines far to the south was transported overland to Jenne, then trans-shipped on broad-bottom canoes (pirogues) to Timbuktu, and thence by camel to markets in North Africa and Europe. Leo Africanus reported in 1512 that the extensive boat trade on the Middle Niger involved massive amounts of cereals and dried fish shipped from Jenne to provision arid Timbuktu. Today, the stunning mud architecture of Jenne in distinctive Sudanic style is a legacy of its early trade ties with North Africa. Three kilometers to the southeast, the large mound called Jenne-jeno (ancient Jenne) or Djoboro (Pl. 1) is claimed by oral traditions as the original settlement of Jenne. Barren and carpeted by a thick layer of broken pottery, Jenne-jeno lay mute for decades, its history and significance totally unknown. Scientific excavations in the 1970's and 1980's revealed that the mound is composed of over five meters of debris accumulated during sixteen centuries of occupation that began c. 200 B.C.E. These excavations, in addition to more than doubling the period of known history for this region, provided some surprises regarding the local development of society. The results indicated that earlier assumptions about the emergence of complex social organization in urban settlements and the development of long-distance trade as innovations appearing only after the arrival of the Arabs in North Africa in the seventh and eighth centuries were incorrect. The archaeology of Jenne- jeno and the surrounding area clearly showed an early, indigenous growth of trade and social complexity. The importance of this discovery has resulted in the entry of Jenne- jeno, along with Jenne, on the list of UNESCO World Heritage sites.
The early settlement at Jenne-jeno.
It appears that permanent settlement first became possible in the upper Inland Niger Delta in about the third century B.C.E. Prior to that time, the flood regime of the Niger was apparently much more active, meaning that the annual floodwaters rose higher and perhaps stayed longer than they do today, such that there was no high land that regularly escaped inundation. Under these wetter circumstances, diseases carried by insects, especially tsetse fly, would have discouraged occupation. Between 200 B.C.E. and 100 C.E., the Sahel experienced significant dry episodes, that were part of the general drying trend seriously underway since 1000 B.C.E. Prior to that time, significant numbers of herders and farmers lived in what is today the southern Sahara desert, where they raised cattle, sheep and goat, grew millet, hunted, and fished in an environment of shallow lakes and grassy plains. As the environment became markedly drier after 1000 B.C.E., these populations moved southward with their stock in search of more reliable water sources. Oral traditions of groups from the Serer and Wolof of Senegal to the Soninke of Mali trace their origins back to regions of southern Mauritania that are now desert. As these stone-tool-using populations slowly moved along southward-draining river systems, they found various more congenial environments. One of these was the great interior floodplain of the Middle Niger, with its rich alluvial soil and a flood regime that was well-suited to the cultivation of rice. The earliest deposits, nearly six meters deep at Jenne- jeno (Pl. 2) have yielded the hulls of domesticated rice, sorghum, millet, and various wild swamp grasses. The population that settled at Jenne-jeno used and worked iron, fashioning the metal into both jewelry and tools. This is interesting , since there are no sources of iron ore in the floodplain. The earliest inhabitants of Jenne-jeno were already trading with areas outside the region. They also imported stone grinders and beads. The presence of two Roman or Hellenistic beads in the early levels suggests that a few very small trade goods were reaching West Africa, probably after changing hands through many intermediaries. We have not detected any evidence of influences from the Mediterranean world on the local societies at this time.
The original settlement appears to have occurred on a small patch of relatively high ground, and was probably restricted to a few circular huts of straw coated with mud daub. We find many pieces of burnt daub with mat impressions on them in the earliest levels. The pottery associated with this early material is from small, finely-made vessels with thin walls. Artifacts and housing material of this kind persist until c. 450 C.E., occurring over progressive larger area of Jenne-jeno. This indicates that the site was growing larger. In fact, by 450 C.E., the settlement had expanded to at least 25 hectares (over 60 acres).
Jenne-jeno's floruit: 450-1100 C.E.
In the deposits dated from the fifth century, there are definite indications that the organization of society is changing. We find organized cemeteries, with interments in large burial urns (Pl. 3) as well as inhumations outside of urns in simple pits, on the edge of the settlement. From an excavation unit on the western edge of Jenne-jeno, we found evidence that the site was enlarged by quarrying clay from the floodplain and mounding it at the edge of the site New trade items appear, such as copper, imported from sources a minimum of several hundred kilometers away, and gold from even more distance mines. A smithy was installed near one of our central excavation units around 800 C.E. to mold copper and bronze into ornaments, and to forge iron. Smithing continued in this locale for the next 600 years, suggesting that craftsmen had become organized in castes and operated in specific locales, much as we see in Jenne today.
The round houses at Jenne-jeno were constructed with tauf, or puddled mud, foundations, from the fifth to the ninth century. During this time, the settlement continued to grow, reaching its maximum area of 33 hectares by 850 C.E. We know that this is so because sherds of the distinctive painted pottery that was produced at Jenne-jeno only between 450-850 C.E. are present in all our excavation units, even those near the edge of the mound. And we find them at the neighboring mound of Hambarketolo, too, suggesting that these two connected sites totaling 41 hectares (100 acres) functioned as part of a single town complex (Pl. 4) .
In the ninth century, two noticeable changes occur (Pl. 5): tauf house foundations are replaced by cylindrical brick architecture, and painted pottery is replaced by pottery with impressed and stamped decoration. The source of these novelties is unknown, although we can say that they did not involve any fundamental shift in the form or general layout of either houses or pottery. So it is unlikely that any major change in the ethnic composition of Jenne-jeno was associated with the changes. Change with continuity was the prevailing pattern. One of the earliest structures built using the new cylindrical brick technology (Pl. 6) was apparently the city wall, which was 3.7 meters wide at its base and ran almost two kilometers around the town. All these indications of increasingly complex social organization are particularly important in helping us understand the indigenous context of the Empire of Ghana, an influential confederation that consolidated power within large areas to the north and west of the Inland Niger Delta sometime after 500 C.E.. To date, Jenne-jeno provides our only insight into the nature of change and complexity in the Sahel prior to the establishment of the trans-Saharan trade. Although some excavations have been conducted at the presumed capital of Ghana, Kumbi Saleh (in southeastern Mauritania), these focused on the stone-built ruins dating to the period of the trans-Saharan trade.
As we currently understand the archaeology of the entire Jenne region, where over 60 archaeological sites rise from the floodplain within a 4 kilometer radius of the modern town (Pl. 7) , many of these sites were occupied at the time of Jenne-jeno's floruit between 800-1000 C.E.. We have suggested that this extraordinary settlement clustering resulted from a clumping of population around a rare conjunction of highly desirable features (Pl. 8) : excellent rice-growing soils, levees for pasture in the flood season, deep basin for pasture in the dry season and access to both major river channels and the entire inland system of secondary and tertiary marigots from communication and trade.
Decline: C.E. 1200-1400
In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, the first unambiguous evidence of North African or Islamic influences appears at Jenne-jeno in the form of brass, spindle whorls, and rectilinear houses. This occurs within a century of the traditional date of 1180 C.E. for the conversion of Jenne's king (Koi) Konboro to Islam, according to the Tarikh es-Sudan. After this point, Jenne-jeno begins a 200-year long period of decline and gradual abandonment, before it becomes a ghost town by 1400. We can speculate that Jenne-jeno declined at the expense of Jenne, perhaps related to the ascendancy of the new religion, Islam, over traditional practice. The continued practice of urn burial at Jenne-jeno through the fourteenth century tells us that many of the site's occupants did not convert to Islam. The production of terracotta statuettes in great numbers throughout the period and even into the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries elsewhere in the Inland Niger Delta may mark loci of resistance, within the context of traditional religious practice, to Islam or the leaders who practiced it. Whatever the cause of Jenne-jeno's abandonment, it was part of a larger process whereby most of the settlements occupied around Jenne in 1000 C.E. lay deserted by 1400. What caused such a realignment of the local population? Again, we can only speculate. Some people likely converted to Islam and moved to Jenne, where wealth and commercial opportunities were increasingly concentrated. But there is also the fact that the climate grew increasingly dry from 1200 C.E., causing tremendous political upheavals further north, and prompting virtual abandonment of whole regions (e.g., the Mema, studied by Malian archaeologist Tereba Togola) that could no longer sustain herds and agriculture. Some, if not all, of these factors were probably implicated in the decline of Jenne-jeno.
Jenne-jeno is easy to reach from Jenne, and its surface traces of ancient houses and pottery are evocative of its rich history. Peering into the deep erosion gullies that scar the surface, one literally looks backward in time over 1000 years.
The phase of pre-Dogon settlement began close to the beginning of the Common Era, several centuries after the end of the Late Neolithic. The populations used objects made of iron and, probably in the second half of the 1st mill. AD, began to master its production. As a whole, the technological and stylistic characteristics of pottery at pre-Dogon sites dated between the 2nd and the 13th centuries is clearly differentiated from that of the Late Neolithic. Such differences include the appearance of new décors made by several kinds of rollers and by woven impressions. This new cultural context places the Dogon Country at the intersection of three different ethnolinguistic spheres – Mande, Gur and Soghay -, for which the influences vary according to region and period.
Oral sources place Dogon settlement in an interval between the 13th and 15th centuries. Within this same period, archaeological research has demonstrated a new cultural break, evidence by the important amount of pottery made by pounding the clay on a baobab mat, typical of one of the five modern ceramic traditions (tradition A, associated with farming women). Oral traditions reveal a very complex history of Dogon settlement, due to frequent relocations of villages associated with a history of climatic and political instability: discovery of water spots, drying of rivers, famines, and land conflicts, but also withdrawal after raids by the neighboring Peul, Bambara and Mossi.
Paleometallurgy
Fieldwork at the Fiko reduction site in 2005. Photo C. Robion-Brunner
Beginning in 2002, a paleometallurgy axis was added with the aim of studying the development of siderurgy in the Dogon Country, from its origins to modern day. One of the principal objectives is to determine the moment when the structure and capacity of production of the industry allowed the widespread use of farming tools and weapons made of iron. Such use of iron corresponds to a change in the technological system within society, with significant effects on its structure and on the environment in the broad sense.
To meet this goal, a multidisciplinary approach was developed. The ethnographic approach aimed at collecting oral traditions related to siderurgy. As a result of a memory still quite alive, much information was recovered concerning the last two or three centuries. These surveys informed on historical, social and economic aspects that would be impossible to demonstrate solely by the study of the material record. They also give access to the spiritual and symbolic world in which production and ironworking were integrated. Finally, practical knowledge of modern craftspeople helped to understand and reconstruct the actions of the earlier groups.
At the same time, the archaeological approach aimed to inventory, describe and understand the material evidence of siderurgy: ancient pits from iron mines, furnaces that allowed iron extraction and forges where objects were made. These sites were systematically located across the landscape, visited and documented by descriptions, photographs and topographic designs. Characteristic sites were selected and studied in greater detail with test pits or larger excavations carried out. This work made it possible to discover furnaces and study their functioning, as well as to collect charcoal samples that could be dated by 14C and slag that could be analyzed in the laboratory to clarify technical aspects, the different modes of production and their development. The construction of a detailed topographic map was done in the aim of demonstrating the spatial organization and to estimate the quantity of debris and thus the level of production. Anthracological analysis additionally yielded important data on the vegetal cover and the model of exploitation of wood resources.
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
quote: Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans
"...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.
The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60
quote:"When the Elephantine results were added to a broader pooling of the physical characteristics drawn from a wide geographic region which includes Africa, the Mediterranean and the Near East quite strong affinities emerge between Elephantine and populations from Nubia, supporting a strong south-north cline."
Barry Kemp. (2006) Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilization. p. 54
quote: "From the Mesolithic to the early Neolithic period different lines of evidence support an out-of-Africa Mesolithic migration to the Levant by northeastern African groups that had biological affinities with sub-Saharan populations. From a genetic point of view, several recent genetic studies have shown that sub-Sabaran genetic lineages (affiliated with the Y-chromosome PN2 clade; Underhill et al. 2001) have spread through Egypt into the Near East, the Mediterranean area, and, for some lineages, as far north as Turkey (E3b-M35 Y lineage; Cinniogclu et al. 2004; Luis et al. 2004), probably during several dispersal episodes since the Mesolithic (Cinniogelu et al. 2004; King et al. 2008; Lucotte and Mercier 2003; Luis et al. 2004; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Semino et al. 2004; Underhill et al. 2001). This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic.
Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens.
This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005).
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
---Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. Human Biology, Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
quote:The Upper Palaeolithic Lithic Industry of Nazlet Khater 4 (Egypt): Implications for the Stone Age/Palaeolithic of Northeastern Africa
Abstract:
Between Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 4 and 2, Northeast Africa witnessed migrations of Homo sapiens into Eurasia. Within the context of the aridification of the Sahara, the Nile Valley probably offered a very attractive corridor into Eurasia. This region and this period are therefore central for the (pre)history of the out-of-Africa peopling of modern humans. However, there are very few sites from the beginning of the Upper Palaeolithic that document these migration events. In Egypt, the site of Nazlet Khater 4 (NK4), which is related to ancient H. sapiens quarrying activities, is one of them. Its lithic assemblage shows an important laminar component, and this, associated with its chronological position (ca. 33 ka), means that the site is the most ancient Upper Palaeolithic sites of this region. The detailed study of the Nazlet Khater 4 lithic material shows that blade production (volumetric reduction) is also associated with flake production (surface reduction). This technological duality addresses the issue of direct attribution of NK4 to the Upper Palaeolithic.
Authors: Leplongeon, Alice1; Pleurdeau, David2 Source: African Archaeological Review, Volume 28, Number 3, September 2011, pp. 213-236(24) Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
Some of the most important evidence of early man in Nubia was discovered recently by an expedition of the Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto, under the direction of Dr. Kryzstof Grzymski, on the east bank of the Nile, about 70 miles (116 km) south of Dongola, Sudan. During the early 1990's, this team discovered several sites containing hundreds of Paleolithic hand axes. At one site, however, the team identified an apparent stone tool workshop, where thousands of sandstone hand axes and flakes lay on the ground around a row of large stones set in a line, suggesting the remains of a shelter. This seems to be the earliest "habitation" site yet discovered in the Nile Valley and may be up to 70,000 years old.
What the Nubian environment was like throughout these distant times, we cannot know with certainty, but it must have changed many times. For many thousands of years it was probably far different than what it is today. Between about 50,000 to 25,000 years ago, the hand axe gradually disappeared and was replaced with numerous distinctive chipped stone industries that varied from region to region, suggesting the presence in Nubia of many different peoples or tribal groups dwelling in close proximity to each other. When we first encounter skeletal remains in Nubia, they are those of modern man: homo sapiens*.
Nubia's Oldest Battle?
From about 25,000 to 8,000 years ago, the environment gradually evolved to its present state. From this phase several very early settlement sites have been identified at the Second Cataract, near the Egypt-Sudan border. These appear to have been used seasonally by people leading a semi-nomadic existence. The people hunted, fished, and ground wild grain. The first cemeteries also appear, suggesting that people may have been living at least partly sedentary lives. One cemetery site at Jebel Sahaba, near Wadi Halfa, Sudan, contained a number of bodies that had suffered violent deaths and were buried in a mass grave. This suggests that people, even 10,000 years ago, had begun to compete with each other for resources and were willing to kill each other to control them.
Busharia reveals the precocious appearance of pottery on the African continent around the 9th millennium B.C.
The site of Busharia is located near the desert, at the edge of the alluvial plain and near an old Nile channel. It reveals the remains of human occupation at the onset of the Holocene. The settlement is rather eroded, only a few artefacts, ostrich egg fragments and extremely old ceramic sherds remain. These sherds date to circa 8200 B.C. The ceramic assemblage is homogenous, which suggests the existence of a single occupation phase. The decorations and the use of the return technique, common in the central Sahara around the 6th millennium B.C., are unique in this Nubian context for such an early period.
Remains discovered on site suggest the existence of a semi-sedentary population living from hunting, fishing, and the gathering of wild plants. A trial trench and a small-scale excavation were conducted on this Mesolithic site; however, it is impossible to obtain at present a better understanding of the context related to the first ceramics in the region. As this site is located near cultivated zones, it is thus threatened with short-term destruction.
Three scale models—of the Mesolithic hut of el-Barga ( 7500 B.C. ), the proto-urban agglomeration of the Pre-Kerma (3000 B.C.) and the ancient city of Kerma (2500-1500 B.C.)—give a glimpse of the world of the living. They show the evolution of settlements for each of the key periods in Nubian history. Huts indicate the birth of a sedentary way of life, the agglomeration confirms the settling of populations on a territory and the capital of the Kingdom of Kerma marks the culmination of the complexification of Nubian architecture with its ever more monumental constructions. The three models were created in Switzerland by Hugo Lienhard and were installed in the museum in January 2009.
Wadi el-Arab reveals an almost continuous series of settlement remains spanning two millennia as well as the first Neolithic burials known in Africa.
This site is located today in a desert region. Discovered in 2005, it has been under excavation since 2006. This is an open-air site occupied on several occasions during a period between 8300 and 6600 B.C. Its inhabitants then lived in a rather wooded environment, living on fishing, hunting and gathering.
The site reveals numerous flint tools and flakes, grinding stone fragments, ceramic sherds, ostrich eggshell beads, shells and mollusc remains, fish vertebrae and faunal remains. Rare domesticated ox bones were discovered and dated to circa 7000 B.C. This discovery is important for the question regarding the origin of animal domestication in Africa because it reinforces the idea of a local domestication of African oxen from aurochs living in the Nile Valley.
During the 2006-2007 campaign, six burial pits were excavated in three different areas. Dated to between 7000 and 6600, these burials are the first known Neolithic burials on the African continent.
The Upper Palaeolithic Lithic Industry of Nazlet Khater 4 (Egypt): Implications for the Stone Age/Palaeolithic of Northeastern Africa
Authors: Leplongeon, Alice1; Pleurdeau, David2 Source: African Archaeological Review, Volume 28, Number 3, September 2011, pp. 213-236(24)
Abstract:
Between Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 4 and 2, Northeast Africa witnessed migrations of Homo sapiens into Eurasia. Within the context of the aridification of the Sahara, the Nile Valley probably offered a very attractive corridor into Eurasia. This region and this period are therefore central for the (pre)history of the out-of-Africa peopling of modern humans. However, there are very few sites from the beginning of the Upper Palaeolithic that document these migration events. In Egypt, the site of Nazlet Khater 4 (NK4), which is related to ancient H. sapiens quarrying activities, is one of them. Its lithic assemblage shows an important laminar component, and this, associated with its chronological position (ca. 33 ka), means that the site is the most ancient Upper Palaeolithic sites of this region. The detailed study of the Nazlet Khater 4 lithic material shows that blade production (volumetric reduction) is also associated with flake production (surface reduction). This technological duality addresses the issue of direct attribution of NK4 to the Upper Palaeolithic.
Wadi Kubbaniya (ca. 17,000–15,000 B.C.)
In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.
It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
DNA analysis shows that Egyptians group with African peoples from the Sudan, Ethiopia, East Africa and parts of Cameroon, not with Europe or the Middle East.
*Notes on E-M78 and Rosa DNA study linking Egyptians with East and Central Africans.[/b] DNA study (Rosa et al. 2007) groups Egyptians with East and Central Africans. Other DNA studies link these peoples together. Quote:“the majority of Y chromosomes found in populations in Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia and Oromos in Somalia and North Kenya (Boranas) belong to haplogroup E3b1 defined by the Y chromosome marker M78“(Sanchez 2005). Codes: Egy=Egypt. Or= Oromo, Ethiopia. Am=Amahara, Ethiopia. Sud=Sudan. FCA=Cameroon. Maa= Massai, Kenya. Note: Eighty (80)% or more of the haplotypes in Cameroon are of West African origin (Rosa et al. 2007, Cerny et al. 2006). Ethiopia, Cameroon and most of the Sudan is located below the Sahara, and thus sub-Saharan.-- Rosa, et al.(2007) Y-chromosomal diversity in the population of Guinea-Bissau. BMC Evolutionary Biology. 7:124
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range. In general, recent studies of skeletal variation among ancient Egyptians support scenarios of biological continuity through time. Irish (2006) analyzed quantitative and qualitative dental traits of 996 Egyptians from Neolithic through Roman periods, reporting the presence of a few outliers but concluding that the dental samples appear to be largely homogeneous and that the affinities observed indicate overall biological uniformity and continuity from Predynastic through Dynastic and Postdynastic periods.
Zakrzewski (2007) provided a comprehensive summary of previous Egyptian craniometric studies and examined Egyptian crania from six time periods. She found that the earlier samples were relatively more homogeneous in comparison to the later groups. However, overall results indicated genetic continuity over the Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic periods, albeit with a high level of genetic diversity within the population, suggesting an indigenous process of state formation. She also concluded that while the biological patterning of the Egyptian population varied across time, no consistent temporal or spatial trends are apparent. Thus, the stature estimation formulae developed here may be broadly applicable to all ancient Egyptian populations..".
("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf,(Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-55
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 121:219–229 (2003)
Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions Sonia R. Zakrzewski* Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton, Southampton SO17 1BF, UK
'The ancient Egyptians have been described as having a “ Negroid” body plan (Robins, 1983).
Variations in the proximal to distal segments of each limb were therefore examined. Of the ratios considered, only maximum humerus length to maximum ulna length (XLH/XLU) showed statistically significant change through time.
This change was a relative decrease in the length of the humerus as compared with the ulna, suggesting the development of an increasingly African body plan with time.
This may also be the result of Nubian mercenaries being included in the sample from Gebelein.
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “ super-Negroid ” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.'
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley VS...
More on the people who match the Ancient Egyptians in a continues model. From where the Egyptian culture arose.
The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Meredith F. Small* et al.
Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley.
In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.
A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis.
Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
From about 20,000 BCE, there are further refinements in stone technology. Very specialized tools appeared, including arrowheads, fishhooks, grindstones, and awls. These most refined of stone implements have the generic name 'microlithic.' This era of the late Paleolithic also saw the development of complex composite tools such as bows and arrows. As well, fishing equipment, including boats, and even pottery appeared in some environmental niches. As tools became more specialized and finely made, local variations, including stylistic ones, became more and more the rule...
From the standpoint of African history the most important development of the late Stone Age was the emergence of more settled ('sedentary') societies. These probably developed first along the banks of the Upper Nile in the Cataracts region, in modern day southern Egypt and northern Sudan (ancient Nubia). Evidence of barley harvesting there dates from as early as 16,000 BCE. The ability to make greater use of abundant wild grains, probably coupled with greater exploitation of aquatic resources, led to a more settled existence for some people. These more sedentary peoples were a part of what is now known collectively as the African Aquatic Culture/ Tradition. This way of life spread from the Upper Nile into a much larger area of Africa during the last great wet phase of African climate history, which began about 9,000 and peaked about 7,000 BCE. The higher rainfall levels of the period created numerous very large shallow lakes across what are now the arid southern borderlands of the Sahara desert. Inhabitants of shore communities crafted microlithic tools to exploit a marine environment: fishing and trapping aquatic animals. This provided abundant food supplies, particularly high in protein and supported the earliest known permanent settlements. Culturally and linguistically related peoples ancestral to modern Black Africans established settlements throughout this vast, ancient great lakes area. It is theorized that they spoke the mother Nilo-Saharan tongue. Sophisticated water-related technologies supported not only the development of settled communities, but also the invention of things like pottery, which were formerly thought to be associated exclusively with the Food Production Revolution of the later New Stone Age, or Neolithic. While the African aquatic tradition itself lasted only until the beginning of the modern drier period, around 3,000 BCE, its legacy has been felt ever since.
Basil Davidson, Africa in History (1975) Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
^^ that is video from a Nubian from Egypt saying they were black who is a actual Egyptologist, not some copt who fancies herself a scholar because she doesn't want to be a Arab because their muslim. Besides copts don't have tropical body plans nor a african skull cavity
Here is a woman from North Egypt, Cairo who happens to be a trained tour guide in Egyptology.
Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469–514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79–123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313–324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374–384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9–4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.
An examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?
K. Goddea, b, Corresponding Author Contact Information
a Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee
b Department of Science, South College
Abstract
Many authors have speculated on Nubian biological evolution. Because of the contact Nubians had with other peoples, migration and/or invasion (biological diffusion) were originally thought to be the biological mechanism for skeletal changes in Nubians. Later, a new hypothesis was put forth, the in situ hypothesis. The new hypothesis postulated that Nubians evolved in situ, without much genetic influence from foreign populations. This study examined 12 Egyptian and Nubian groups in an effort to explore the relationship between the two populations and to test the in situ hypothesis. Data from nine cranial nonmetric traits were assessed for an estimate of biological distance, using Mahalanobis D2 with a tetrachoric matrix. The distance scores were then input into principal coordinates analysis (PCO) to depict the relationships between the two populations. PCO detected 60% of the variation in the first two principal coordinates. A plot of the distance scores revealed only one cluster; the Nubian and Egyptian groups clustered together. The grouping of the Nubians and Egyptians indicates there may have been some sort of gene flow between these groups of Nubians and Egyptians. However, common adaptation to similar environments may also be responsible for this pattern. Although the predominant results in this study appear to support the biological diffusion hypothesis, the in situ hypothesis was not completely negated.
Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262
As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).
Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.
The jealous, unintelligent and untalented stanley aka argyle VS...
SETTLEMENT ARCHAEOLOGY IN NIGERIA: A SHORT NOTE
Oluwole Ogundele Department of Archaeology and Anthropology, University of Ibadan, Nigeria
INTRODUCTION The history of scientific archaeological research in Nigeria, is a relatively recent development. This dates back to the 1940's when a rock-shelter named "Rop" was investigated, in addition to the limited excavations embarked upon by Bernard Fagg, in the Nok Valley area of Central Nigeria. Similarly, rescue excavations were carried out in Igbo-Ukwu located in the eastern part of the country by Thurstan Shaw and his team in the latter part of the 1950's. Since then, several archaeological efforts have been made in few locations such as Ile-Ife, Old-Oyo, Benin and Daima all situated in the western and northern parts of Nigeria respectively.
In all these archaeological excavations, the objectives were mainly to retrieve artifacts and describe them with a view to reconstructing the cultural history of the region in question. Archaeological researches during this period, were basically artifact-oriented, and not unexpectedly, classifications based on stratigraphic evidence, occupied a central position in the scheme of things. This research orientation is with a view to gaining some insights about sequences of events and chronologies. It is important to note that apart from the fact that these archaeological works were scattered (i.e. few and far between), there were no well formulated strategies and/or research designs aimed at clarifying our understanding of the spatial dimension of the culture(s) being studied, both at the intra- and inter-site levels. Indeed, lateral-oriented activities involving mapping and excavations were not considered vital to the operationalization of research works until in the 1980's. Some of the concomitant effects of this development are as follows:
1. Artifacts retrieved from excavations appear to remain isolated, without any significant connections between them and a given geographical configuration, thus making it impossible to recreate the extent to which a people had exploited the resources within their environment. 2. Establishment of the nature and pattern(s) of inter-group relations among the peoples in different parts of the country in prehistoric and proto-historic or historic periods remains a far cry.
PROBLEMS AND PERSPECTIVES Since the archaeologist is concerned with the reconstruction of palaeo-cultures, space or environment is one of the indispensable variables (Ogundele 1989; 1990; 1994). However, in having an over-view of the works of pioneers of archaeology in Nigeria and to some extent the present crop of experts in the field, efforts should be made to take into consideration several problems that faced them or are still facing some of them. Given this situation, my assessonent of their works is done here with great respect and caution. Indeed one major objective of this piece of work, is to attempts to promote a new appreciation of available or potential archaeological data especially settlement finds and features, with a view to broadening our horizon of archaeological scholarship in Nigeria and West Africa as a whole.
Until very recently, all the archaeologists working in Nigeria were mainly Europeans and they did not often stay long enough to embark upon systematic and long-term archaeological surveys. In other words, Nigerian archaeologists are still disappointingly few and largely as a result, some systematic archaeological investigations of the entire country is still a far cry. Closely related to the problem listed above, is the fact that Nigeria is a vast country, too large for a handful of archaeologists to manage. In addition, the geographical character of the region is extremely complex. Thus for example, the major vegetational zones (especially the thick forests and swamps in the south, and the very desert area to the north), constitute in themselves, distinct obstacles to archaeological field-work.
Another major difficulty has to do with the fact that Nigeria is situated in the humid tropics and as with other humid tropical regions, the soils are acidic and erosion is generally very pronounced. These have adversely affected the preservation of archaeological remains especially fragile items like bones and wooden objects of great time-depth. However, there are still some depositional cases such as deltaic conditions, rock-shelters and caves, where archaeological materials are relatively better preserved. Overall however, the archaeologist working in Nigeria is left with just the imperishables such as stone tools and potsherds and little else in the way of human occupation to analyze, reconstruct and interpret.
The lack and in places paucity of data has tended to encourage unrestrained speculation which in fact largely accounts for some insupportable hypotheses being put forward by many early or pioneer archaeologists, concerning the nature of culture change in Nigeria. One of such hypotheses was that the peopling of the forest region (southern Nigeria and indeed, all of the Guinea zone of West Africa) was a much later development than that of the northern open savanna area. Recent archaeological research has shown that people were already living in south-western Nigeria (specifically Iwo-Eleru) as early as 9000 BC and perhaps earlier at Ugwuelle-Uturu (Okigwe) in south-eastern Nigeria (Shaw and Daniels 1984: 7-100).
Lack of adequate funding and dating facilities has also caused a lag in archaeological research in Nigeria and indeed, all of West Africa. Many sites threatened by construction work such as bridges, roads, houses and dams are not normally rescued because there are no sources of funding. The governments of West African countries have not been supportive enough of archaeological work, partly because both the leaders and the peoples do not recognize the role a sound knowledge of the past can play in nation-building.
There is up to now, no well-equipped dating laboratory either to process charcoal samples or potsherds. The only laboratory in West Africa is in Senegal and it is far from being well equipped. Consequently, it is restricted mostly to processing charcoal samples collected from sites in Senegal. Given this problem, samples collected from archaeological excavations have to be sent abroad for processing. This delays the rate at which archaeological information is put into its proper time perspective.
It seems also that a great deal more time and attention are paid to the later phases of human settlement history than the earlier. Consequently, much more is known of iron age and historic settlements in Nigeria and West Africa as a whole. Some considerable amount of work has been done for these phases in Benin City in Nigeria, Niani in Niger Republic and Jenne-Jeno in Mali, among other places in West Africa. One reason for this interest in the later phase seems to rest in the fact that there is a meeting point between historic settlement archaeology and oral traditions in the region generally and the fact that people can identify much more easily with this phase because it is more recent and by this fact closer to our times.
It is pertinent to note that there is no settlement archaeology tradition(s) in Nigeria up to the early 1980's. Even at places like Ife, Old-Oyo, Benin and Zaria where some relatively limited archaeological work has been carried out, efforts were mainly concentrated on walls (Soper 1981: 61-81; Darling 1984: 498-504; Leggett 1969: 27). In Southern Nigeria, proto-historic settlements were generally composed of mud or sun-dried brick houses. Most if not all these house structures and defensive and/or demarcatory walls have either been destroyed or obliterated by erosion. The tradition(s) of constructing houses with stones in the pre colonial past was well reflected in many parts of Northern Nigeria. In fact, many hill-top settlements in this area of Nigeria were composed of stone houses - a direct response among other things, to opportunities offered by the immediate environment (Netting 1968: 18-28; Denyer 1978: 41-47). Despite the nature of the soil chemistry (acidic soil) stone buildings are still better preserved than mud houses.
Relics of ancient settlements are much fewer in the south than in the north, because of the different building materials as well as techniques of construction which are partly determined by diverse historical experiences among other things. Hill-tops and slopes offer abundant boulders which could be dressed for construction, while in the plains, it is much easier to obtain mud for building houses. For example, the dispersed mode of settlement of the present-day Tiv as opposed to the nucleated rural settlements on the hill-tops and slopes in ancient times, coupled with their shifting agricultural system, as well as the factor of refarming and/or resettlement of former sites by some daughter groups which hived off, from the original stock, make most ancient settlements and recently abandoned sites (made up of sun-dried brick houses) difficult to discover at least in a fairly well preserved state (Sokpo and Mbakighir 1990, Personal Communication).
This preservation problem among others further make the task of establishing stratigraphic sequences a little bit difficult. Nigeria is divisible into zones on the basis of techniques of construction as follows: 1. Mud construction techniques which are very common in most parts of southern Nigeria. 2. Stone construction techniques which are very common in most parts of Northern Nigeria; and 3. Combination of mud and stone construction techniques. This development is common in Tivland, where the ancient houses and protective walls on hill-tops were constructed of stones, while present-day houses in the plains are usually constructed of mud.
Given our experiences in Nigeria, the third category of construction is very useful for generating models. These are models derivable from oral traditional data and ethnographic resources. Such models, if carefully applied to archaeological situations, can greatly fill the gaps in our knowledge of the past of the Nigerian peoples.
CONCLUSION Scientific studies of settlement archaeology of the different parts of Nigeria are be-devilled by a lot of problems ranging in nature from inadequate facilities to fewness of archaeologists on ground. Developments in recent years have however shown that these problems are now being turned into a source of strength by the indigenous archaeologists. Thus for example abundant oral traditional and ethnographic resources in Nigeria are being profitably harnessed. This is with a few to clarifying our understanding of aspects of the people's settlement heritage.
REFERENCES Darling, P. 1984. Archaeology & History In Southern Nigeria: The ancient Linear Earthworks of Benin and Ishan. B. A. R. Series 215. Denyer, S 1978. African traditional architecture. Heinemann, Ibadan. Leggett, H. J. 1969 Former Hill and Inselberg Settlements In the Zaria District. West African Archaeology News-letter. No.11. Mbakighir, N. 1990. Personal Communication. Netting, R. M. 1968. Hill Farmers of Nigeria: Cultural Ecology of the Kofyar of The Jos Plateau, University of Washington, Press Seattle. Ogundele, S. O. 1989. Settlement Archaeology In Tivland: A Preliminary Report. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol. 19. Ogundele, S.O. 1990. The Use of Ethno-archaeology In Tiv Culture History. African Notes. Vol. 14. Ogundele, S.O. 1994. Notes On Ungwai Settlement Archaeology. Journal of Science Research. Vol. 1. Shaw, T.& Daniells, S. G. H. 1984. Excavations At Iwo-Eleru, Ondo State, Nigeria. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol.14. Soper, R. 1981. The Walls of Oyo Ile. West African Journal of Archaeology. Vol. 10/11. Sokpo, A. 1990. Personal Communication.
[Note] This is a report sent with a letter of 18th December 1995 from Dr. Ogundele. This report shows the situation of archaeological activities in Nigeria. Appropriate support to the Nigerian archaeologists would inprove the difficult situation.
Department of Archaeology, Okayama University NIIRO Izumi 20th Feb. 1996 Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: You will also find that in many cases people who were brought to the Americas as slaves and were not African, were often called mullato or "even" negro.
Negro and mullato were catch terms used by some slavers to fend off criticism in the late 18th century and throughout the 19th century for enslaving obvious non-Africans. Just call them mullato (part sub-human) or negro (full sub-human) and you have a justification for that person's enslavement.
This is true and well known for people from Asia, like the Chinese, native Americans and East Indians, but not for swarthy Scots, Irish or Germans.
Why is it I see no slave ship voyages from East India or China to the Americas, during the middle passage. In this international database? The Asian populations mentioned were taken to the Americas as contract workers, after the abolishment of slavery to make up for the enslaved African population. A contract worker is not the same a slave. Contract workers kept their language, culture etc...and got paid. Whereas the slave did not. This is generic all throughout the Americas. The Turkish and Arabs were slaves in the Americas is no more than laughable pseudo crap. Britsh and Irish convicts were taken to the Americas as an act of criminal penalty. Since the were law offenders.
Directly from the sources: VOC Database, the National Dutch archive!
"Zo ontstond gaandeweg een grootscheepse immigratie van contractarbeiders. Het ging hier achtereenvolgens om Chinezen (vanaf 1853), Brits Indiers (1873) en Javanen (vanaf 1890)."
Translation:
Gradually emerged as a major immigration of contract laborers. These were successively Chinese (from 1853), East Indians (1873) and Javanese (from 1890).
Abstract In comparing the adjustments to a free labor economy in the post-emancipation United States South and in slaveholding Cuba, this essay reveals certain parallels and divergences. Most particularly, it emphasizes the relative position of both places in the global, national, and colonial economies, and it explores the political economy of race and work. Following Confederate expatriates and Victorian travelers from the United States to the Caribbean, it also draws attention to various intellectual and cultural connections between Cuba and the American South. Here, too, it is especially concerned with shared notions of race and racial supremacy.
Asian American studies will show that there has been a long and varied Asian American history that is imperative to understanding how the US views Asians now. We will start at the very beginning of the Asian American studies in order to help you understand the Asian American history we are discussing. The first Asian Americans were in Manilla, a village that was taken over by the USA. The first Asian Americans were also in Mexico rather than the US. It was not until the 1750's that the Asian American truly began on US soil.
During the 1750's Filipino sailors began to come from their native land and stop in the Louisiana territory. Then in the 1840's there was a need for more slaves. Since Africa wasn't offering as many slaves as they did at the beginning, many began to bring over Asians to fill the gap. Thus the start of the Asian American studies and therefore Asian American history shows that slavery was a key part to their past on US soil.
The Big Disappointment. The economic consequences of the abolition of slavery in the Caribbean, 1833–1888
Pieter C. Emmer, University of Leiden
The surprisingly-optimistic findings derived from the recent research regarding Caribbean plantation slavery, however, have found their corollary in the new findings regarding labour migration from Asia during the nineteenth century.
Indians were first brought to the Caribbean from the mid-1840s to work on white-owned sugar plantations as indentured labour to replace newly freed African slaves. The majority of immigrants were young men; later disturbances on the plantations forced the authorities to try and correct the imbalance.
Etc...
Indians first came to Suriname after the abolition of slavery in 1863. The Dutch had established control over the coastal areas in the years after 1667 and attempted to establish a plantation economy by the importation of African slaves. The Africans suffered greatly under slavery and many fled into the jungles of the interior. After slavery was abolished there was an agreement between the UK and the Netherlands for the importation of sub-continental Indians as contract labourers; 34,300 came in the years between 1873 and 1916.
In any case many former slaves refused to work on the estates which had been the site of their servitude, and it was obvious that a more reliable source of labour was needed. From 1845 onwards, hundreds of thousands of indentured immigrants from India arrived at the request of the planters in the British colonies - Trinidad, Jamaica, Grenada, Guyana and St. Vincent.
When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
After the abolition of slavery, East Indians were brought under a new form of slavery called the “indenture system” to rescue the sugar industry. The fact that the sugar industry is still a highly successful and viable industry in Guyana to this day, and the major foreign exchange earner in the country, is a testimony to how well they attained that goal.
Also in Suriname, a (small) group of Lebanese is present. Aim of the research is to line out the migration to and functioning within the Surinamese society. The first Lebanese arrived in the nineties of the last century, and until now each decade some Lebanese are entering the country . Within Lebanon they originate from a specific region, even a small (agrarian based) village (Bazaoun). Within Suriname they entered the textile trade that they dominate at present. Prof. De Bruijne did his first research on the Lebanese in Suriname in the sixties. The actual research intends not only to compare the present-day position of this group with that of the sixties, but new historical data make it also possible to portray a more detailed analysis of the history of the migration in the beginnings of this century.
Period 01/1998 - 06/2006 NOD number OND1293697 Status completed Related organisations
Secretariat: Amsterdam School for Social Science Research - AISSR (UvA) Related persons Project leader: Prof.dr. G.A. de Bruijne Classification A87000 : political relations and international relations C20000 : development studies
The story of the Lebanese in Jamaica begins towards the end of the nineteenth century. Unlike their fellow immigrants from China and India who had begun arriving in Jamaica in the mid-19th century, the Lebanese did not land on the island as indentured labourers. They, like the Jews that had come centuries before, arrived by their own free will, albeit fleeing religious persecution....
There are a few theories put forth as to why Jamaica was chosen as a destination. Nellie Ammar, the daughter of one of the earliest Lebanese immigrants and matriarch of the well-known Ammar retail family, collected stories from many of her relatives and friends prior to her own passing in the late 1990s. In an article for the Jamaica Journal she referenced her father who explained that for many who left the Middle East in the 1860s and 1870s, Britain was seen as the country of freedom. America was still emerging from the throes of its own bloody civil war. Therefore, according to him, the earliest Lebanese/Syrian immigrants seemed to have decided to seek the protection of the British Flag wherever they could and Jamaica fell into that category....
In addition, stories recount that many Lebanese/Syrians first heard of Jamaica as a result of the Great Exhibition of 1891. The Exhibition held on the grounds of what is now Wolmer's Schools drew over 300,000 visitors from around the world including some from the Middle East....
Sources: Ammar, N. From Whence they came in The Jamaica Journal. Issa, S. (1994). Mr. Jamaica - Abe Issa. Kingston: publisher, Sherlock, P. and Bennett, H. (1998). The story of the Jamaican people. Kingston: Ian Randle Publishers.
The last group of immigrants to venture to colonial Trinidad originated in the region previously known as Greater Syria, which comprises of present day Iraq, Syria, Palestine and Lebanon. Many of the Lebanese hailed from the villages of Buhandoun and Amyoun while the Syrians came from villages in the ‘Valley of the Christians.’ These Arabs emigrated to the Caribbean from as early as 1904 in an attempt to escape religious persecution and economic hardship in their native countries.
I posted to see if the Ish Gebor loon would reply.
My psychological assessment was correct. He did.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
This will probably be the final intellectual thrashing that I will administer on this site.
Please excuse any bad grammatical and punctuation errors, or bad copy and pasting. I have a patient schedduled to come in soon and don't have the time to methodically review my posts for those types of errors.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
It is fascinating to observe from a psychologist's point of view, just how obsessed this Ish Gebor aka "The Explorer" loon is with this subject and to what dimwitted lengths he will go to in order to pull the wool over lesser minded readers.
Notice how he:
1. Ignores historical evidence in this thread provided by numerous other posters that debunks his deranged fantasy that slavery was relegated to people whose look he doesn't like.
2. Tries to reduce the argument based on one or two so called sources that may or may not debunk his logic. He figures no one will take the time to read to counter his "narrow" viewpoints.
He is probably right. Who in the world would when there is already evidence to the contrary.
For example newspaper A says that vehicles only come in 1 color, 1 model, and 1 make.
Newspaper 2 says vehicles come in a multitude of colors, models, makes and provides documentation.
Which one would a normal intelligent human being believe newspaper 1 or newspaper 2? Newspaper 2 of course.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebor is the result of what happens when one becomes an entertainment flunkie. In the entertainment world fantasy and an obsession with looks trumps everything.
He has several mental defects.
1. He needs to believe that slaves had a certain phenotype because that is what hollyweird and network docudramas have sodomized his mind with.
2. He needs to believe that any black American who posesses some physical or mental quality that he likes is mixed.
The real world does not work like that. Which is why his blog aka "The Explorer" only receives 3 visits a month.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
There are those who blindly follow the historical formula of white Americans that are designed to keep African Americans boxed in and away from a certain ancient civilization that white Americans covet.
Formula for Africa.
1. You do not show cities that are in Africa unless they are in South Africa, Egypt, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia. This is because in the European mind they can be attributed to people who are "supposedly" non-African.
2. You do not show Africans who do not fit a certain look.
3. You do not show Africans who dress in traditional African garments.
4. You do not show Africans who are not in poverty.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ish Gebors aka "The Explorer's" posting does reinforce his belief in the inherent inferiority of Africans he does not like.
In order to take Ish Gebor's lunacy seriously we would have to believe that certain Africans were insects who produce abnormal amounts offspring.
We have to believe that these people did nothing but give their people away or make non-stop war with each other.
I will bet that if anyone seriously researched war in Africa they would find that Africans and wars were a product of European fantasy.
This works only on people who believe in the myth of the savage Africans.
Those who know of African dress and architecture know that Africans were far more into community development than selling each other or warring with each other.
There is no way that any region or ethnic group of people could lose tens of millions of people and still be around.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
We also would have to believe that europeans can create people who look like they are from Egypt, Eritrea, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Algeria, Morroco, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Western Sahara, Chad, and Djebouti.
It is utter non-sense. As anyone with a pair of eyes can see that unions between Africans and Europeans create people who look nothing like people from those countries.
Roland Martin looks like an Ethiopian and Michael Steele looks like a Somali. That isn't because of some white man.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Oh, my next scheduled appointment has just come in.
Ish Gebor how are you today?
: )
Posted by MIND POWER (Member # 6729) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Troll Patty , you gonna take this?
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
lol at the disgraceful illogical reasoning piece of sh*t above, using multiple screen names. Who can't backup its bullshyt claims. So now all it has left is nonsensical babble.
And then you woke up!
Why is it I see no slave ship voyages from East India or China to the Americas, during the middle passage. In this international database? The Asian populations mentioned were taken to the Americas as contract workers, after the abolishment of slavery to make up for the enslaved African population. A contract worker is not the same a slave. Contract workers kept their language, culture etc...and got paid. Whereas the slave did not. This is generic all throughout the Americas. The Turkish and Arabs were slaves in the Americas is no more than laughable pseudo crap. Britsh and Irish convicts were taken to the Americas as an act of criminal penalty. Since the were law offenders. All this is registered.
Directly from the sources: VOC Database, the National Dutch archive!
"Zo ontstond gaandeweg een grootscheepse immigratie van contractarbeiders. Het ging hier achtereenvolgens om Chinezen (vanaf 1853), Brits Indiers (1873) en Javanen (vanaf 1890)."
Translation:
Gradually emerged as a major immigration of contract laborers. These were successively Chinese (from 1853), East Indians (1873) and Javanese (from 1890).
Abstract In comparing the adjustments to a free labor economy in the post-emancipation United States South and in slaveholding Cuba, this essay reveals certain parallels and divergences. Most particularly, it emphasizes the relative position of both places in the global, national, and colonial economies, and it explores the political economy of race and work. Following Confederate expatriates and Victorian travelers from the United States to the Caribbean, it also draws attention to various intellectual and cultural connections between Cuba and the American South. Here, too, it is especially concerned with shared notions of race and racial supremacy.
Asian American studies will show that there has been a long and varied Asian American history that is imperative to understanding how the US views Asians now. We will start at the very beginning of the Asian American studies in order to help you understand the Asian American history we are discussing. The first Asian Americans were in Manilla, a village that was taken over by the USA. The first Asian Americans were also in Mexico rather than the US. It was not until the 1750's that the Asian American truly began on US soil.
During the 1750's Filipino sailors began to come from their native land and stop in the Louisiana territory. Then in the 1840's there was a need for more slaves. Since Africa wasn't offering as many slaves as they did at the beginning, many began to bring over Asians to fill the gap. Thus the start of the Asian American studies and therefore Asian American history shows that slavery was a key part to their past on US soil.
The Big Disappointment. The economic consequences of the abolition of slavery in the Caribbean, 1833–1888
Pieter C. Emmer, University of Leiden
The surprisingly-optimistic findings derived from the recent research regarding Caribbean plantation slavery, however, have found their corollary in the new findings regarding labour migration from Asia during the nineteenth century.
Indians were first brought to the Caribbean from the mid-1840s to work on white-owned sugar plantations as indentured labour to replace newly freed African slaves. The majority of immigrants were young men; later disturbances on the plantations forced the authorities to try and correct the imbalance.
Etc...
Indians first came to Suriname after the abolition of slavery in 1863. The Dutch had established control over the coastal areas in the years after 1667 and attempted to establish a plantation economy by the importation of African slaves. The Africans suffered greatly under slavery and many fled into the jungles of the interior. After slavery was abolished there was an agreement between the UK and the Netherlands for the importation of sub-continental Indians as contract labourers; 34,300 came in the years between 1873 and 1916.
In any case many former slaves refused to work on the estates which had been the site of their servitude, and it was obvious that a more reliable source of labour was needed. From 1845 onwards, hundreds of thousands of indentured immigrants from India arrived at the request of the planters in the British colonies - Trinidad, Jamaica, Grenada, Guyana and St. Vincent.
When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
After the abolition of slavery, East Indians were brought under a new form of slavery called the “indenture system” to rescue the sugar industry. The fact that the sugar industry is still a highly successful and viable industry in Guyana to this day, and the major foreign exchange earner in the country, is a testimony to how well they attained that goal.
Also in Suriname, a (small) group of Lebanese is present. Aim of the research is to line out the migration to and functioning within the Surinamese society. The first Lebanese arrived in the nineties of the last century, and until now each decade some Lebanese are entering the country . Within Lebanon they originate from a specific region, even a small (agrarian based) village (Bazaoun). Within Suriname they entered the textile trade that they dominate at present. Prof. De Bruijne did his first research on the Lebanese in Suriname in the sixties. The actual research intends not only to compare the present-day position of this group with that of the sixties, but new historical data make it also possible to portray a more detailed analysis of the history of the migration in the beginnings of this century.
Period 01/1998 - 06/2006 NOD number OND1293697 Status completed Related organisations
Secretariat: Amsterdam School for Social Science Research - AISSR (UvA) Related persons Project leader: Prof.dr. G.A. de Bruijne Classification A87000 : political relations and international relations C20000 : development studies
The story of the Lebanese in Jamaica begins towards the end of the nineteenth century. Unlike their fellow immigrants from China and India who had begun arriving in Jamaica in the mid-19th century, the Lebanese did not land on the island as indentured labourers. They, like the Jews that had come centuries before, arrived by their own free will, albeit fleeing religious persecution....
There are a few theories put forth as to why Jamaica was chosen as a destination. Nellie Ammar, the daughter of one of the earliest Lebanese immigrants and matriarch of the well-known Ammar retail family, collected stories from many of her relatives and friends prior to her own passing in the late 1990s. In an article for the Jamaica Journal she referenced her father who explained that for many who left the Middle East in the 1860s and 1870s, Britain was seen as the country of freedom. America was still emerging from the throes of its own bloody civil war. Therefore, according to him, the earliest Lebanese/Syrian immigrants seemed to have decided to seek the protection of the British Flag wherever they could and Jamaica fell into that category....
In addition, stories recount that many Lebanese/Syrians first heard of Jamaica as a result of the Great Exhibition of 1891. The Exhibition held on the grounds of what is now Wolmer's Schools drew over 300,000 visitors from around the world including some from the Middle East....
Sources: Ammar, N. From Whence they came in The Jamaica Journal. Issa, S. (1994). Mr. Jamaica - Abe Issa. Kingston: publisher, Sherlock, P. and Bennett, H. (1998). The story of the Jamaican people. Kingston: Ian Randle Publishers.
The last group of immigrants to venture to colonial Trinidad originated in the region previously known as Greater Syria, which comprises of present day Iraq, Syria, Palestine and Lebanon. Many of the Lebanese hailed from the villages of Buhandoun and Amyoun while the Syrians came from villages in the ‘Valley of the Christians.’ These Arabs emigrated to the Caribbean from as early as 1904 in an attempt to escape religious persecution and economic hardship in their native countries.
And this is how yte people dealt with the Chinese in Amerikkka:
DRIVEN OUT The Forgotten War Against Chinese Americans. By Jean Pfaelzer.
quote: Witnesses to Persecution By PATRICIA NELSON LIMERICK Published: July 29, 2007
An engraving of an anti-Chinese riot in Denver in 1880.
Thinking realistically about the history of the American West easily lands on the list of this nation’s top 10 least favorite pastimes. Hundreds of historians have invested their life force in pointing out the inaccuracies in the image of the 19th-century West as a place of colorful romance and innocent adventure. “No thanks,” the believers reliably respond. “We like our version a lot better.
Now, Jean Pfaelzer steps forward as a fresh reinforcement in this morale-draining campaign. In “Driven Out: The Forgotten War Against Chinese Americans,” she tells the story of the “thousands of Chinese people who were violently herded onto railroad cars, steamers or logging rafts, marched out of town or killed,” from the Pacific coast to the Rocky Mountains. Despite the forceful adjective of Pfaelzer’s subtitle, this burdensome history has not been entirely “forgotten.” Scholars have written comprehensively and memorably about it. But it is surely accurate to say that a majority of Americans live without a recognition of the degree, scale and extent of these chilling undertakings.
Most know even less about the extraordinary record of the Chinese people’s responding to persecution with boycotts, petitions, lawsuits and demands for reparations. In Wing Hing v. City of Eureka, 53 Chinese men and women joined together in asserting that the Northern California city had a duty to protect its residents and in demanding reparations and financial compensation for the violence that drove them out in 1885. Confronted with the requirement, in the Geary Act of 1892, that Chinese immigrants carry an identity card proving they were in the country legally or else face deportation, thousands refused to submit to what they called the “Dog Tag Law,” thus undertaking what Pfaelzer says was “perhaps the largest organized act of civil disobedience in the United States.”
Altogether, Chinese immigrants filed more than 7,000 lawsuits in the decade after the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, “and they won the vast majority of them,” Pfaelzer writes. In truth, these efforts to claim the protection of American law should require historians to come up with a whole new understanding — in geography, chronology and cast of characters — of the civil rights movement.
To a surprising and heartening degree, some white Westerners championed the Chinese in their assertion of rights. Taking the job of San Francisco consul for the Chinese government, the lawyer Frederick Bee became an indefatigable filer of lawsuits and writer of protests on behalf of the dispossessed. After the brutal expulsion of the Chinese from the city of Tacoma in 1885, W. H. White, a courageous United States attorney, prosecuted the leaders of the mob, including Tacoma’s mayor, chief of police, two councilmen, a probate court judge and the president of the Y.M.C.A. In Southern California, a missionary’s wife, one remarkable Mrs. Trumble, protected 30 Chinese men from a mob, standing on her porch aiming a rifle — and the good advice to disperse — at the vigilantes.
But that, ladies and gentlemen, concludes the uplifting part of this review. “Driven Out” cites records of more than 100 roundups, pogroms, expulsions and ethnic cleansings (to use Pfaelzer’s various terms for these actions) in which white Westerners united to drive the Chinese out of their communities from 1850 to 1906. They used warnings, arson, boycotts and violence to achieve their goal. In many circumstances, labor organizations led the campaigns, casting the Chinese as competitors for jobs and depressors of wages. But middle-class civic leaders often acted in alliance with workers.
And what motivated the proud participants in these acts of stunning cruelty? Following the influential work of the historian Alexander Saxton, Pfaelzer — a professor of English, East Asian studies and American studies at the University of Delaware — points to the disappointment and disillusion that afflicted many seekers of fortune in the American West, native-born whites and European immigrants alike. When the West defaulted on their high expectations, they directed their frustration at the Chinese. In a more subtle casting of this usual explanation, Pfaelzer portrays it as an act of projection. “Whites saw in Chinese workers precisely what they hated about their own lives: hard and underpaid work, long hours, poor living conditions and a dearth of women.” In other words, white workers made the Chinese their scapegoats because of the similarities, rather than the differences, between them.
Every now and then, as in this example, Pfaelzer hits her stride in a clear and insightful passage of analysis. Her summation of the implications of Chinese litigation is a model of memorable historical interpretation. “The Chinese brought these suits as part of a strategy of forcing a nation to obey its own laws. Despite the violence and the limits on access to the courts, they acted as if legal judgments could be impartial.”
The stories Pfaelzer tells deserve our attention, and yet this is not a particularly well-written or well-organized book. In the end, her tireless and thorough research — sifting through 19th-century newspapers, pursuing diaries and memoirs from local historical societies, seeking out court documents, tracking diplomatic correspondence — has left her with a nearly impossible problem. How is a writer to make an artful narrative out of tales in which the same miserable events unfold over and over again? Cataloging the harassment of the Chinese in the 1880s, Pfaelzer finally resorts to assembling, in white type on 35 black pages, what she calls a “litany of hate”: “a topical and chronological register of acts of ethnic cleansing.” This is, in other words, the literary genre the rest of us call a list.
With a topic of this seriousness, it may seem petty to dwell on cryptic sentences or the lack of a uniting theme in paragraphs held together by intellectual duct tape of weakened stickiness. But the uneven quality of the writing has consequence. It gives the reader an unintended relief from an otherwise unrelenting confrontation with human cruelty. One more round of revisions, with sharper phrasing, clearer narrative and more thorough analysis, and Pfaelzer could have sealed off the reader’s route of emotional escape.
In her introduction, Pfaelzer makes an ambitious, though brief, effort to place the Chinese expulsions in a broad planetary history, remembering her “own family’s diaspora” in flight from Nazi Germany and referring to the “millions of refugees in Nigeria, Eritrea, Iraq and Darfur” today. She also notes that “thousands of immigrants, thousands of people born in the United States to parents born abroad, and thousands of others are marching through the streets of Los Angeles, Houston and New York, refusing to be temporary people, transients, braceros, guests or sojourners.”
Could a reckoning with the unhappy history Pfaelzer documents bring some clarity and wisdom to contemporary debates on immigration? When we ask it to guide our decisions in the present, history has a way of speaking more like a sphinx than like the author of a how-to manual. And yet, in this particular territory, historical perspective surrenders some of its habitual obliqueness and subtlety. First, like many other important works in this field, Pfaelzer’s book makes an irrefutable case that immigration played a crucial role in building the economic well-being of the United States. Second, we must acknowledge that nothing has immunized us against the unhappy effect that economic disappointment works on the soul, or against the temptation to find scapegoats to hold responsible for deeper problems.
In 1876, commenting on violence against the Chinese in nearby Truckee, Calif., The Reno Evening Gazette in Nevada declared that one attack, in which vigilantes set two cabins on fire and shot at the occupants as they fled, represented a “phase of human depravity and cupidity that would cast a gloom over the dark shades of hell.” You might dismiss that phrasing as melodramatic and overwrought. But contemplate the stories brought together in this book, and the writers at that newspaper will seem simply to have stated the truth.
Patricia Nelson Limerick is the author of “The Legacy of Conquest” and “Something in the Soil.” She is the faculty director of the Center of the American West at the University of Colorado.
(btw, I have this book and it is a very informative read)
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Good info Truth, Patrol.
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When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
^^The British gubment also cashed out slave owners, in British territories, giving them compensation for lost 'property'. The ex-slaves, received naught. QUOTE:
"Most of Britains's slaves left bondage just as their ancestors had entered it, with little but the clothes on their backs. It was, after all, the plantation owners or their creditors, and not the slaves who received (pounds) 20 million compensation; more important, they still owned the plantations." --Hochschild, A. 2006. Bury the Chains. p. 360
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
Respect...
Black Britannia: A History of Blacks in Britain by Dr. Edward Scobie, is also something much worth reading if one can get their hands on it...I have a used copy I bought, which is signed by the author...
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Respect...
Black Britannia: A History of Blacks in Britain by Dr. Edward Scobie, is also something much worth reading if one can get their hands on it...I have a used copy I bought, which is signed by the author...
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Good info Truth, Patrol.
---------------------------------------------
When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
^^The British gubment also cashed out slave owners, in British territories, giving them compensation for lost 'property'. The ex-slaves, received naught. QUOTE:
"Most of Britains's slaves left bondage just as their ancestors had entered it, with little but the clothes on their backs. It was, after all, the plantation owners or their creditors, and not the slaves who received (pounds) 20 million compensation; more important, they still owned the plantations." --Hochschild, A. 2006. Bury the Chains. p. 360
Well, the account I am familiar with state servant/ convict.
Over the course of several days in January, 1788, 11 ships from the British First Fleet delivered their cargo of 732 British, North American, West Indian and African convicts to Sydney Cove. As the prisoners disembarked, they knew there was little chance of seeing their homeland or loved ones again. Were your ancestors on board?
Over the next 80 years more than 165,000 convicts were transported the 15,000 mile journey to Australia and it has recently been estimated that two million Brits have convict ancestors and four million Australians are of convict descent. We invite you to search this collection and discover your convict ancestors. After all, they’re still family.
The British convict transportation registers 1787-1867 database has been compiled from the British Home Office (HO) records which are available on microfilm. You can find details for over 123 000 of the estimated 160 000 convicts transported to Australia in the 18th and 19th centuries - names, term of years, transport ships and more.
Matra proposed that the prisoners, who would formerly have been sent to the American settlements should be sent, instead, to Botany Bay which Captain Cook had reported following his voyage of 1770. Matra considered that "with good management and a few settlers" the new colony would prove a great stimulus to British trade with the East. He saw Australia's links with Asia long before we did.
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Good info Truth, Patrol.
---------------------------------------------
When Britain decided to emancipate the slaves, they did so in a round about way. They wanted to assure the planters of labor, after emancipation, so they created an apprenticeship system, where slaves older than six years of age were "‘entitled to be registered as apprenticed labourers and to acquire thereby all rights and privileges of freedom.’ In return for food, clothing and lodging, but without wages, they were to work for their former owners three-fourths of the day…" This apprenticeship was a quasi-slavery system designed to keep the slaves on the plantation, but give them their "freedom". Over 7,000 East Indians immigrated to the West Indies before 1841. In 1850 Chinese immigration occurred, mainly in Guyana, but some went to both Jamaica and Trinidad. Indentured labor did not resolve the problems of the plantations and the local governments in the Caribbean during the nineteenth century, but it enabled the sugar plantations to weather the difficulties of the transition from slave labor.
^^The British gubment also cashed out slave owners, in British territories, giving them compensation for lost 'property'. The ex-slaves, received naught. QUOTE:
"Most of Britains's slaves left bondage just as their ancestors had entered it, with little but the clothes on their backs. It was, after all, the plantation owners or their creditors, and not the slaves who received (pounds) 20 million compensation; more important, they still owned the plantations." --Hochschild, A. 2006. Bury the Chains. p. 360
IRISH CONVICTS IN AMERICA AND AUSTRALIA
By Thomas F. Magner
In recent centuries crime and punishment linked Great Britain to America and Australia in a most curious way: the actual crimes occurred in England, Ireland and Scotland but for punishment thousands upon thousands of the criminals were banished to the American colonies and later to Australia. In the case of Ireland, social protest and political dissent were sometimes construed as criminal activity and the court's harshest sentence – transportation to the colonies - could be handed down for dissent as well as for common theft.
The Transportation System
The historical record is this: in the 17th and 18th centuries England transported some 50,000 convicts to the American colonies where they were sold into servitude, usually for seven years. Of that number the historian A. Roger Ekirch estimates that 36,000 came from England, 13,000 from Ireland and 700 from Scotland (Bound for America. The Transportation of British Convicts to the Colonies, 1718-1775, Oxford, 1987, p. 27). Convict transportation to the American colonies was effectively ended by the American Declaration of Independence in 1776 which forced England to use the newly "discovered" land of Australia as a dumping ground for convicts. For 81 years, beginning in 1787, England transported some 160,000 manacled convicts in sailing ships on a 16,000 mile voyage to Australia; in the dark holds of the ships which ferried this human cargo there were 39,000 convicts from Ireland, 30,000 men and 9,000 women (Robert Hughes, The Fatal Shore, New York, 1987, p. 195).
In his history of Maryland Robert J. Brugger describes the arrival of convicts in America: "Typically males of humble origins, the convicts arrived at either Annapolis or Baltimore chained in groups of ninety or more men, 'wretched, ragged and lean', as one of them recalled. Buyers came aboard, looked in mouths, and haggled over prices." (Maryland. A Middle Temperament, 1634-1980, Baltimore, 1989, p. 86). Irish convicts were the least desirable to the American planters, a situation later repeated in Australia; as the Australian writer Robert Hughes notes, "It was taken for granted that all Irishmen were 'wild' and 'lawless', and the authorities in Sydney, who had enough trouble with the relatively tractable English prisoners, were never glad to see them." (Hughes, p.184).
The transportation of convicts, so inhumane on the surface, was ironically an attempt to mitigate the severity of the British Criminal Code, popularly called the Bloody Code, which listed 167 capital crimes, offenses for which a convicted felon could be hanged. The Bloody Code prescribed death for crimes ranging from murder to the theft of property worth a shilling or more; a shilling was not an insignificant amount: in Ireland: during the 1800s it was the daily wage of a farm laborer.
Though most of the Irish felons were convicted of crimes against persons or property, the offences of a substantial minority of them were of a political nature. Hughes writes that "Australia was the official Siberia for Irish dissidents... Between 1800 and 1805 their influx began in earnest, swollen by political exiles transported for their role in the rebellion of 1798, when Ireland tried unsuccessfully to ally with France in revolt against England." (Hughes, p.181).
It is safe to say that the average American knows nothing about the 50,000 convicts transported here in colonial times and the reasons seem clear: the number of convicts was small compared to that of black slaves (some 721,000 in our 1790 census) and also because the institution of slavery endured until 1863 whereas the flow of convicts ended in 1776.
Australians, however, desperately wanted to forget the fact that their country was founded as a convict settlement and so it was only in recent decades that serious studies of the historical role of Australia's 160,000 convicts have appeared. One such study is the book, The Fatal Shore, by Robert Hughes. About the memory problem he writes: "By the 1880s, when the Protestant majority in Australia had all but sublimated the 'hated stain' of convictry, the Irish still kept the memory of the System alive. Naturally, they also fostered the delusion that most Irish convicts had been sent to the Fatal Shore for political offenses..." ( p.195).
Few records survive about individual convicts who were transported to North America and the West Indies. However, an alphabetical list of convicts transported between 1614 and 1775 has been published - see section 3.1.
Far more records survive of convicts transported to Australia. Many records have been digitised and made available on Australian websites - these are described in this guide. Between 1787 and 1868 over 160,000 people were transported to Australia. There is no single index to their names. In order to find out more about a convict you will need to know when they were tried and/or the date and ship in which they sailed to Australia. There are various sources you can use to find this information - see section 4.1.
You can also find information about a convict who was transported by searching legal records. Some of these are online and some are searchable by name in our online Catalogue. However, many records are not catalogued in this way and searching for the relevant information may prove challenging.
3. Why transportation became a form of punishment
Nowadays we think of imprisonment as one of the more obvious forms of punishment for convicted criminals, but in the past most criminal offences were punished by death or by a fine and/or whipping. Many convicted criminals were pardoned to avoid carrying out a death sentence. Transportation emerged during the seventeenth century as away of ensuring that criminals were punished without putting them to death.
3.1 Transportation to North America and the West Indies
From 1615 onwards transportation became increasingly common, and initially most people were transported to North America or the West Indies. From 1718 onwards transportation was entirely to North America. The period of transportation was usually 14 years for those receiving conditional pardons from death sentences and seven years for non-capital offences.
An alphabetical list of men and women transported between 1614 and 1775, as well as where each person was tried, is printed in Peter Wilson Coldham's book The complete book of emigrants in bondage, 1614-1775. He has also published a book called Bonded passengers to America, which gives a detailed overview of all the published sources of relevant records in The National Archives.
Finding out more about a person transported to North America or the West Indies is likely to be difficult, but you might be able to trace a person among legal records - see sections 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5.
NRS 1155 Musters and other papers relating to convict ships These papers usually came from England on the transport. The lists of convicts generally show only name, date and place of trial, and sentence. They are sometimes copies of the indentures with the owner of the ship contracting to transport convicts, or a muster taken before embarkation or just before or just after disembarkation. The other papers are miscellaneous - lists of deaths during the voyage, convicts to be employed in the iron'd gangs, warrants to transport military prisoners, lists of free settlers on board, etc. Occasionally there are letters about a convict after arrival.
If your ancestors sailed to the New World to seek a fortune or pursue their religion, or were transported convicts , a range of documents can help you to trace them
Where to find transportation records
A good place to start is The Complete Book of Emigrants in Bondage, 1614-1775 (P .W, Coldham, GPC, Baltimore, 1988), which lists convicts and tells you where they were tried. Bonded Passengers to America (P.W Coldham, GPC, Baltimore, 1983) includes an overview of other published information.
If the transportee was convicted in a court of assizes, the records may survive at the TNA or, for Welsh transportees, the National Library of Wales. Contracts to transport convicts may be among quarter sessions records at county record offices.
As the cost of their passage was funded by the State, convicts to be transported are also listed in Treasury records at the TNA (class T 1); some are indexed. They include the name of the ship, its master and its destination in North America or the West Indies.
This database contains details of Irish convicts who were transported to New South Wales in the period 1788 - 1849.
The database contains:
Irish State prisoners, convicts who were tried in Ireland, convicts who were tried outside Ireland whose native place was in Ireland, Irish military men who were tried inside or outside Ireland whose native place was in Ireland, and a few non-Irish convicts arriving on Irish convict transport ships.
In the mid-1830s only around six per cent of the convict population were 'locked up', the majority working for free settlers and the authorities around the nation. Even so, convicts were often subject to cruelties such as leg-irons and the lash. Places like Port Arthur or Norfolk Island were well known for this. Convicts sometimes shared deplorable conditions. One convict described the working thus:
'We have to work from 14-18 hours a day, sometimes up to our knees in cold water, 'til we are ready to sink with fatigue... The inhuman driver struck one, John Smith, with a heavy thong.'
The experience of these convicts is recorded through the first Australian folk songs written by convicts. Convict songs like Jim Jones, Van Diemen's Land, and Moreton Bay were often sad or critical. Convicts such as Francis Macnamara (known as 'Frankie the Poet') were flogged for composing original ballads with lines critical of their captors.
In addition to the physical demands of convict life, some convicts arrived without sufficient English to communicate easily with others:
By 1852, about 1,800 of the convicts had been sentenced in Wales. Many who were sent there could only speak Welsh, so as well as being exiled to a strange country they were unable to speak with most of their fellow convicts. Martin Shipton, Western Mail, 2006
Also telling of convicts' experiences were convict love tokens, mainly produced in the 1820s and 1830s by transported convicts as a farewell to their loved ones. Made from coins such as pennies, most of the engraved inscriptions refer to loss of liberty. One token, made from a penny for convict James Godfrey, is dedicated to his love Hannah Jones. The inscription reads: 'When in/Captivity/Time/Goeth/Very slow/But/Free as air/To roam now/Quick the/Time/Doth/Go'.
End of transportation
When the last shipment of convicts disembarked in Western Australia in 1868, the total number of transported convicts stood at around 162,000 men and women. They were transported here on 806 ships.
The transportation of convicts to Australia ended at a time when the colonies' population stood at around one million, compared to 30,000 in 1821. By the mid-1800s there were enough people here to take on the work, and enough people who needed the work. The colonies could therefore sustain themselves and continue to grow. The convicts had served their purpose.
Who were the convicts?
Charles Rodius (1802-1860), Convicts building a road over the Blue Mountains, NSW, 1833, watercolour.
While the vast majority of the convicts to Australia were English and Welsh (70%), Irish (24%) or Scottish (5%), the convict population had a multicultural flavour. Some convicts had been sent from various British outposts such as India and Canada. There were also Maoris from New Zealand, Chinese from Hong Kong and slaves from the Caribbean.
This is somewhat psuedo. But the data can be verified.
SHIPS IN UK PORTS 1881
The 1881 Census contains details of many ships in UK ports. These records are useful for tracing seamen and passengers coming into or going out of the country.
For those who do not have easy access to the 1881 census the following pages give the details of the people concerned.
The founding of the French Louisiana colony here in Amerikkka is also interesting, and most people are not aware of it beginnings; most people were DEPORTED from France to that colony- they didn't want to go to the colony...criminals, undesirables, prostitutes, some even put on the deportation list by their own families...(ya know, sorta like how the British colonized Australia: convicts/criminals, deportees, soldiers, etc.)
Africans in Colonial Louisiana The Development of Afro-Creole Culture in the 18th Century by Gwendolyn Hall:
Many people are not aware of the early Barbados - South Carolina connection: South Carolina was originally populated by migrants mostly from the West Indian colonies- especially Barbados...its early economy was mostly based on the needs of Bajans and the colony itself was mostly Barbados-influenced; it apparently also provided the basis of black slavery in SC...the South Carolina colony copied, and/or (slightly) modified to suit their needs, the Barbadian slave codes...South Carolina didn't come up with its own slave codes for its own particular needs til like 1740 I think it was....they were panicked b/c Black People were the majority in the colony NOT yte people (from 1715 - 1724 the yte population in the colony doubled, but the Black population tripled)...
Posted by brick (Member # 20331) on :
I did not read everything but you guys destroyed this cassiterides person.It was fun reading the replies. Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
Management axed the original page 1 (which I hope to restore soon enough) and snuck in page 9 to replace it smh. Meanwhile peruse it here thx 2 Google
Astounding, those so vociferous defending Africa then cower in the face of SchizAlbino Mikey today.
Posted by Elmaestro (Member # 22566) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Management axed the original page 1 (which I hope to restore soon enough) and snuck in page 9 to replace it smh. Meanwhile peruse it here thx 2 Google
Astounding, those so vociferous defending Africa then cower in the face of SchizAlbino Mikey today.
Wow, this thread is pretty incredible... I feel like I missed out lol... the members on ES had resolve back then I guess... I never seen so much contributors to a common cause on here before... granted I'm new.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
This thread is especially interesting, seeing lioness history.
Posted by Fencer (Member # 22259) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: This thread is especially interesting, seeing lioness history.
Wait, if they had been exposed already, and a long time ago, why are they still here? Are they hoping people would forget?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fencer:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: This thread is especially interesting, seeing lioness history.
Wait, if they had been exposed already, and a long time ago, why are they still here? Are they hoping people would forget?
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