posted
Hadith Bayad wa Riyad (The Story of Bayad and Riyad) was a 13th century Arabic love story written in Al-Andalus. The main characters of the tale are Bayad, a merchant's son and a foreigner from Damascus, and Riyad, a well educated girl in the court of an unnamed Hajib (vizier or minister) of Al-Andalus who is referred to as the lady. The Hadith Bayad wa Riyad manuscript is believed to be the only illustrated manuscript known to have survived from more than eight centuries of Muslim and Arab presence in Spain.
Although composed entirely in Arabic, the story of Bayad and Riyad should probably be placed into the hybrid context in which much of Spanish/Andalusian culture of the Middle Ages belongs. For while it demonstrates clear inspiration from and parallels with developments in Arabic literature both of the classical period and of the high middle ages, it also reflects concerns and themes similar to those so popular in late twelfth- and thirteenth-century romance literature composed in European vernacular languages. Thus, the manuscript hints at complexities in thirteenth-century Spanish/Andalusian culture which scholarship has yet to fully understand and explain.
posted
The Hadith Bayad wa Riyad manuscript is believed to be the only illustrated manuscript known to have survived from more than eight centuries of Muslim and Arab presence in Spain. So out of all the Moorish Manuscripts we have only 1 image survives also: Since this manuscript is the only reproduction of the text that has survived, there is not enough evidence to tell whether the al-Andalus manuscript had copied other manuscripts from the east, or the artistic influences arrived in al-Andalus by other means such as pottery or textiles. This could also explain the depiction of Samarra figure types while the rest of the features belong to the Baghdad school of painting.
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The presence of the Samarra style in human types can be explained on account of the survival of the human types in the Fatimid minor arts, particularly textiles and pottery but also in terms of imports directly form Iraq.
So nice try but it seems the Art was not even FROM Al-Andalus but a Copy from Eastern Styles. Had you done your research beyond Wikipedia you would have known this. Once again you are caught with your panites down and your foot in your mouth, relying on art to push your agenda. Just call her Lyin-ass.com.
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According to O. Grabar and R. Ettinghausen Bayad wa Riyad was first identified as Spanish because of the architecture depicted in its miniatures. This is the most remarkable feature that has its roots in al-Andalus. The script is equally unmistakable in a loopy shape as Professor Hillenbrand has pointed out. A closer look at the illustrations permits one to identify other elements which are part of the culture and art of al-Andalus.
The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus.
Secondly, there is a depiction of an “hortus” with grass and fruit trees which was characteristic of gardens in al-Andalus.
There is enough evidence to believe that wealthy classes; monarchs, merchants and officials in al-Andalus, had a particularly passion for books as al Hakan’s library proves.
The decorative motifs of the manuscript -architectural elements, the range of colours used- and their relationship with textiles might locate the origin of the manuscript in an important textile centre.
The depiction of figures might now think of the influence of the shadow theater, there is as well a strong vein of satire; the use of extra large script to provide captions, and the rapid rate of illustration. The later device suggest again that there was ample experience of book painting in al- Andalus that can be supported as well by the position of the paintings on the page and the use of scene dividers and framers.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Jarie did you read your own source fully?:
According to O. Grabar and R. Ettinghausen Bayad wa Riyad was first identified as Spanish because of the architecture depicted in its miniatures. This is the most remarkable feature that has its roots in al-Andalus. The script is equally unmistakable in a loopy shape as Professor Hillenbrand has pointed out. A closer look at the illustrations permits one to identify other elements which are part of the culture and art of al-Andalus.
The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus.
Secondly, there is a depiction of an “hortus” with grass and fruit trees which was characteristic of gardens in al-Andalus.
There is enough evidence to believe that wealthy classes; monarchs, merchants and officials in al-Andalus, had a particularly passion for books as al Hakan’s library proves.
The decorative motifs of the manuscript -architectural elements, the range of colours used- and their relationship with textiles might locate the origin of the manuscript in an important textile centre.
The depiction of figures might now think of the influence of the shadow theater, there is as well a strong vein of satire; the use of extra large script to provide captions, and the rapid rate of illustration. The later device suggest again that there was ample experience of book painting in al- Andalus that can be supported as well by the position of the paintings on the page and the use of scene dividers and framers.
Please show me in this Spam where it debunks the whole premise of this thread. DON'T SPIN HONEY STICK TO THE TOPIC...
HERE IT IS AGAIN, because you missed this part...or you are just illiterate and have a reading comprehension problem..
The presence of the Samarra style in human types can be explained on account of the survival of the human types in the Fatimid minor arts, particularly textiles and pottery but also in terms of imports directly form Iraq.
DON'T SPIN HONEY!!
Just Call her Lyin'ass.com
You're dismissed..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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So yes, Honey I Debunked your ass by Copy N' Pasting my reply I posted to Fawal..LMAO. I debunked your ass before you could even leave the ground.
Tut Tut Tut..Michelle, using Wikipedia as your source of authority..Just call her Lyin'ass.com.
According to O. Grabar and R. Ettinghausen Bayad wa Riyad was first identified as Spanish because of the architecture depicted in its miniatures. This is the most remarkable feature that has its roots in al-Andalus. The script is equally unmistakable in a loopy shape as Professor Hillenbrand has pointed out. A closer look at the illustrations permits one to identify other elements which are part of the culture and art of al-Andalus.
The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus.
Secondly, there is a depiction of an “hortus” with grass and fruit trees which was characteristic of gardens in al-Andalus.
There is enough evidence to believe that wealthy classes; monarchs, merchants and officials in al-Andalus, had a particularly passion for books as al Hakan’s library proves.
The decorative motifs of the manuscript -architectural elements, the range of colours used- and their relationship with textiles might locate the origin of the manuscript in an important textile centre.
The depiction of figures might now think of the influence of the shadow theater, there is as well a strong vein of satire; the use of extra large script to provide captions, and the rapid rate of illustration. The later device suggest again that there was ample experience of book painting in al- Andalus that can be supported as well by the position of the paintings on the page and the use of scene dividers and framers.
LMAO, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, Your source has no bearing on the Miniratures and the Human figures dipicted. All you posted in that spam was that Local Gardens were used as a background. So my turn to ask you..In the Words or Lyin'ass
MICHELLE did you read your own source fully??
Here is some stuff I left out because I thought Fawal was smart enough to click the link and read EVERYTHING on the Page...He Did which is why he Fled never to be heard of again...but YOU are Lyin'ass and You Try to spin, BUT HONEY, Ya Aint Figured it out yet...LAWKS A MUSSY, YOU CAN'T SPIN WITH ME..Girl I know how you operate.
You posted those Images after reading on Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
Which is why you posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ________________________^dana
Under the same pic that Wikipedia says was a self dipiction of the Moors..
2.1.2 Figure types Figures It is particularly noteworthy that in this manuscript the old Samarra style has survived long after it has apparently died out in the eastern Mediterranean what it is typical of the archaic emphasis of Muslim Spanish art and culture. The human faces are represented in three-quarter view, the bodies in frontal view, and the feet in profile. This archetype does not fit all the figures but it certainly does in most of them, although the refinement of the depiction is greater than in Samarra. This may be explained by the medium alone, manuscript painting instead of pottery. It is especially obvious in the depiction of faces (fig. 5). Richard Ettinghausen describes the Samarran ideal of female beauty, which I believe fits the ladies in our manuscript perfectly. “The women have very large heads and small feet. Their heavy-set moon-shaped faces are expressionless and show large eyes, slightly crooked noses, and full cheeks and chins. The rich coiffure has scalloped curls across the forehead, spiraled curls in front of the ears, and heavy braids. The bodies are heavy, even clumsy, but this heaviness like all the other anatomical features expresses the Arabic and early Persian ideal of female beauty”. The convention for the folds also have their origin in the Samarran style. An illustrative example is the painting of the figures of the “two dancers”. The style was continued in the frescoes in the Capella Palatina in Palermo and in many examples in Fatimid painting which could be the source for the figure type in this manuscript (see fig 1-2). According to Ettinghausen the Perso-Iraqi style was the predominant one in Fatimid Egypt. Close examination of the garments does not reveal any indication of al-Andalus textile designs. The figures wear plain robes in dark green, orange, pink and grey-blue. The range of colours that has been used (pink, dark green, dark grey blue, gold, ivory, light brown and orange) can be found in paintings in Syria, the forty-second Maqâmât 6094 in the Biblioteque National and the Schefer Maqâmât Hariri from Iraq. However in the Maqamat, figures wear patterned robes very often. It is worth noting the absence of red, light blue and green.
Honey those are Persians depicted in those pictures..
Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) writes that beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed.
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
So while Dana has facts you have a manuscript with Persians "Self Depicted"..LMAO
I know this is beating a dead horse or in this case a dead Lyin'ass..LMAO!!
You're dimissed.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: rambling rambling rambling
I get it. Moors mean "mulatto" too right?
there are more brown skinned people who are a natural evolutionary transition between "black" and "white" then there are mulattoes. Keita pointed this out
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So yes, Honey I Debunked your ass by Copy N' Pasting my reply I posted to Fawal..LMAO. I debunked your ass before you could even leave the ground.
Tut Tut Tut..Michelle, using Wikipedia as your source of authority..Just call her Lyin'ass.com.
According to O. Grabar and R. Ettinghausen Bayad wa Riyad was first identified as Spanish because of the architecture depicted in its miniatures. This is the most remarkable feature that has its roots in al-Andalus. The script is equally unmistakable in a loopy shape as Professor Hillenbrand has pointed out. A closer look at the illustrations permits one to identify other elements which are part of the culture and art of al-Andalus.
The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus.
Secondly, there is a depiction of an “hortus” with grass and fruit trees which was characteristic of gardens in al-Andalus.
There is enough evidence to believe that wealthy classes; monarchs, merchants and officials in al-Andalus, had a particularly passion for books as al Hakan’s library proves.
The decorative motifs of the manuscript -architectural elements, the range of colours used- and their relationship with textiles might locate the origin of the manuscript in an important textile centre.
The depiction of figures might now think of the influence of the shadow theater, there is as well a strong vein of satire; the use of extra large script to provide captions, and the rapid rate of illustration. The later device suggest again that there was ample experience of book painting in al- Andalus that can be supported as well by the position of the paintings on the page and the use of scene dividers and framers.
LMAO, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, Your source has no bearing on the Miniratures and the Human figures dipicted. All you posted in that spam was that Local Gardens were used as a background. So my turn to ask you..In the Words or Lyin'ass
MICHELLE did you read your own source fully??
Here is some stuff I left out because I thought Fawal was smart enough to click the link and read EVERYTHING on the Page...He Did which is why he Fled never to be heard of again...but YOU are Lyin'ass and You Try to spin, BUT HONEY, Ya Aint Figured it out yet...LAWKS A MUSSY, YOU CAN'T SPIN WITH ME..Girl I know how you operate.
You posted those Images after reading on Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
Which is why you posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ________________________^dana
Under the same pic that Wikipedia says was a self dipiction of the Moors..
2.1.2 Figure types Figures It is particularly noteworthy that in this manuscript the old Samarra style has survived long after it has apparently died out in the eastern Mediterranean what it is typical of the archaic emphasis of Muslim Spanish art and culture. The human faces are represented in three-quarter view, the bodies in frontal view, and the feet in profile. This archetype does not fit all the figures but it certainly does in most of them, although the refinement of the depiction is greater than in Samarra. This may be explained by the medium alone, manuscript painting instead of pottery. It is especially obvious in the depiction of faces (fig. 5). Richard Ettinghausen describes the Samarran ideal of female beauty, which I believe fits the ladies in our manuscript perfectly. “The women have very large heads and small feet. Their heavy-set moon-shaped faces are expressionless and show large eyes, slightly crooked noses, and full cheeks and chins. The rich coiffure has scalloped curls across the forehead, spiraled curls in front of the ears, and heavy braids. The bodies are heavy, even clumsy, but this heaviness like all the other anatomical features expresses the Arabic and early Persian ideal of female beauty”. The convention for the folds also have their origin in the Samarran style. An illustrative example is the painting of the figures of the “two dancers”. The style was continued in the frescoes in the Capella Palatina in Palermo and in many examples in Fatimid painting which could be the source for the figure type in this manuscript (see fig 1-2). According to Ettinghausen the Perso-Iraqi style was the predominant one in Fatimid Egypt. Close examination of the garments does not reveal any indication of al-Andalus textile designs. The figures wear plain robes in dark green, orange, pink and grey-blue. The range of colours that has been used (pink, dark green, dark grey blue, gold, ivory, light brown and orange) can be found in paintings in Syria, the forty-second Maqâmât 6094 in the Biblioteque National and the Schefer Maqâmât Hariri from Iraq. However in the Maqamat, figures wear patterned robes very often. It is worth noting the absence of red, light blue and green.
Honey those are Persians depicted in those pictures..
Sextus Empiricus (Adv. Ethicos, 43.) writes that beauty is relative, the Ethiopians preferring the blackest and the most flat-nosed and the Persians approving the whitest and the most hook-nosed.
The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous;
So while Dana has facts you have a manuscript with Persians "Self Depicted"..LMAO
I know this is beating a dead horse or in this case a dead Lyin'ass..LMAO!!
posted
Didnt you get the memo? NiggaCoons are trying to claim brown as black.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: there are more brown skinned people who are a natural evolutionary transition between "black" and "white" then there are mulattoes. Keita pointed this out
posted
Thank you Jari - I'm not sure what point people are trying to make when they keep posting of Iranian or Central Asian paintings and people whom even Syrians said were considered the color of slaves by the Arabs.
There is also the fact that real Arab bedouin especially or the true "semites" supposedly didn't like to portray themselves in human form considering the image sacred which is why you primarily find almost all Middle Eastern portrayals of early Muslim heroes and figures are those that have been done by Central Asians.
Teda man Yes - I guess brown is the new black, Unconfirmed "Red" one.
Arab of North Arabia depicted by 19th century colonialist.
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And they sure as heck aren't mulattos though they probably have some non-African blood having been in contact with fair-skinned "red" people for thousands of years.
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I didn't read the Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
I keep seeing the works of 19th century European Orientalist propaganda of the colonial period presented as evidence trying to make racial points about the Islamic world of earlier times. Even Miss Dana is doing it above.
Searching for centuries earlier renditions of Muslims not painted by European Christian Colonialists but by other Muslims I came across the Hadith Bayad wa Riyad. The manuscript was written in Spain and is an Andalusian story. I didn't mention the Moors. The illustrations in it are in a Persian style.
You hyenas try to jump on the lioness?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Jari don't get paranoid,
I didn't read the Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
I keep seeing the works of 19th century European Orientalist propaganda of the colonial period presented as evidence trying to make racial points about the Islamic world of earlier times. Even Miss Dana is doing it above.
Searching for centuries earlier renditions of Muslims not painted by European Christian Colonialists but by other Muslims I came across the Hadith Bayad wa Riyad. The manuscript was written in Spain and is an Andalusian story. I didn't mention the Moors. The illustrations in it are in a Persian style.
You hyenas try to jump on the lioness?
Yeah sure kid, keep trying to spin honey. Just remember this beatdown next time you use Wikipedia as a source.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Jari don't get paranoid,
I didn't read the Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
I keep seeing the works of 19th century European Orientalist propaganda of the colonial period presented as evidence trying to make racial points about the Islamic world of earlier times. Even Miss Dana is doing it above.
Searching for centuries earlier renditions of Muslims not painted by European Christian Colonialists but by other Muslims I came across the Hadith Bayad wa Riyad. The manuscript was written in Spain and is an Andalusian story. I didn't mention the Moors. The illustrations in it are in a Persian style.
You hyenas try to jump on the lioness?
How are depictions and descriptions of real life Muslims of the 19th century colonialist propoganda? Your just trying get out of this one. None of your depictions of Central Asians do anything to change what the Arabs and Central Asians like Tabari, Esfehan, Athir and Istakhri said the real Arabs of their time looked like.
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It was exposed now its only solution is to spin. LMAO
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Jari don't get paranoid,
I didn't read the Wikipedia that the Moors "Self Depicted" themselves in the Riyad Hadith...
I keep seeing the works of 19th century European Orientalist propaganda of the colonial period presented as evidence trying to make racial points about the Islamic world of earlier times. Even Miss Dana is doing it above.
Searching for centuries earlier renditions of Muslims not painted by European Christian Colonialists but by other Muslims I came across the Hadith Bayad wa Riyad. The manuscript was written in Spain and is an . I didn't mention the Moors. The illustrations in it are in a Persian style.
You hyenas try to jump on the lioness?
Yeah sure kid, keep trying to spin honey. Just remember this beatdown next time you use Wikipedia as a source.
Jari, you're just like Kalonkji you get busted by your own source, the link you provided. The below is from your source Islamic Culture Foundation it's concluding paragraphs, not contradicting my original thread, reinforcing it:
The technical aspects of the manuscript have their roots in the school of Baghdad such as the treatment of the space, depiction of architecture, conventions for depiction of nature, plain background among others. I believe, it can be safe to assume that the major school of painting at that time was ahead in the innovation of new techniques. The affinities with the current empire at that time.
It has been well studied the influence of the Fatimid art in the western parts of the Islamic world. This has been particularly exemplified in the luster pottery in al-Andalus and silks. It will therefore reinforce the Spanish origin of the manuscript.
According to O. Grabar and R. Ettinghausen Bayad wa Riyad was first identified as Spanish because of the architecture depicted in its miniatures. This is the most remarkable feature that has its roots in al-Andalus. The script is equally unmistakable in a loopy shape as Professor Hillenbrand has pointed out. A closer look at the illustrations permits one to identify other elements which are part of the culture and art of al-Andalus. The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus. Secondly, there is a depiction of an “hortus” with grass and fruit trees which was characteristic of gardens in al-Andalus.
The general aspect of the main building can be identified as “alcazar”. It has the appearance of a fortress from the outside, with its heavy walls broken and lightened only by the elegance of the square towers with their minarets and peaked roofs. There are not many standing examples of this kind of architecture, but the best known is certain to be the Almohad Alcazar in Seville.
The affinity of the manuscript with a group of textiles has led scholars to believe that the manuscript should be attributed to a centre where weaving was important. R. Ettinghausen and O. Grabar have studied this connection with the illustrations;
I believe there is an intentional purpose to avoid colours that stand out, in contrast to other manuscripts in Baghdad where red, light blue or light green are largely represented. The range of colours that have been chosen contributes to the balance the composition.
The colours are typical of the palette of Spanish textiles
The setting for the story is a garden since those play an important part in the culture of al-Andalus
The illustration in folio fourteen reverse also depicts architectural features in a garden in which parallels can be found. The use of pavilions in gardens was common in al-Andalus.
Other distinctive elements are the two animal heads by the pool which serve as a fountain. They are spouting water from their mouths into the pool. The animals’ heads are remarkably similar to the figure of a bronze stag from Cordoba.
Outside the palace an agricultural setting is suggested by the depiction of water and the water wheel. According to Thomas Glick both elements, the irrigation system and the water wheel, are the two main technical inventions in the economy and the social organization of al-Andalus.
The landscape In Hadith Bayad wa Riyad is much more fully realized and contextualized than in Mesopotamian painting. This gives an idea of the importance of Gardens in Islamic Spain.
The depiction of figures might now think of the influence of the shadow theater, there is as well a strong vein of satire; the use of extra large script to provide captions, and the rapid rate of illustration. The later device suggest again that there was ample experience of book painting in al- Andalus that can be supported as well by the position of the paintings on the page and the use of scene dividers and framers.
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Stop grabbing the straw, you drowned already.
Just let it talk everyone else beside it can see its beatdown..
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: The Hadith Bayad wa Riyad manuscript is believed to be the only illustrated manuscript known to have survived from more than eight centuries of Muslim and Arab presence in Spain. So out of all the Moorish Manuscripts we have only 1 image survives also: Since this manuscript is the only reproduction of the text that has survived, there is not enough evidence to tell whether the al-Andalus manuscript had copied other manuscripts from the east, or the artistic influences arrived in al-Andalus by other means such as pottery or textiles. This could also explain the depiction of Samarra figure types while the rest of the features belong to the Baghdad school of painting.
Looks like the hyenas won. LOL!
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