quote:

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Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

quote:

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Originally posted by MelaninKing:
^ If they have melanin, than they are anything but white. Case closed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
^I guess nobody told you that "Tropically adapted" describes ALL homo-sapiens-sapiens; including the white ones.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
^I guess nobody told you that "Tropically adapted" describes ALL homo-sapiens-sapiens; including the white ones.

---

Lets not split hairs here. Tropical adaptation that I am referring to is related to certain facial features that we associate, incorrectly, with Black people: wide nose, fleshy lips, prognathism, long limbs, hairless bodies, etc. Those features are more to do with adaptation to the tropics and random mutation than being Black. Africa is a large continent with highly varying climates and diets which result in various adaptations even though the people largely share a common ancestor (hence they are in the same race).
 

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Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
 
I have a question so u are claiming that those statues in Mexico and the Americas are recent migration froms africa into the Americas
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 
^ No, people with Tropical adaptation (basically having those types of features) have been in the Americas for over 15K years.

----------------- Read about Luiza. It is not something you'll read about in Time magazine of National Geographic. Mainstream media doesn't want to talk about Luiza. They like to talk about made up Caucasians like Kennewick man. The truth is out there for you to find but don't expect the White dominated media to teach you about the history of African people.

-------------------------

Phenotypical analysis of Luiza

Her facial features include a narrow, oval cranium, projecting face and pronounced chin, strikingly dissimilar to most native Americans and their indigenous Siberian forebears.

Anthropologists have variously described Luzia's features as resembling those of Africans, Indigenous Australians, Melanesians and the Negritos of South East Asia.

Walter Neves, an anthropologist at the University of São Paulo, suggests that Luzia's features most strongly resemble those of Australian Aboriginal peoples. Richard Neave of Manchester University, who undertook a facial reconstruction of Luzia (see the photograph above), stated that "I personally would stick my neck out and say it is conclusive support for his [Neve's] findings and demonstrates without any doubt at all" that Luzia was not closely related to Siberian peoples.[3]
Neves and other Brazilian anthropologists have theorized that Luzia's Paleo-Indian predecessors lived in South East Asia for tens of thousands of years, after migrating from Africa, and began arriving in the New World, as early as 15,000 years ago. Some anthropologists have hypothesized that Paleo-Indians migrated along the coast of East Asia and Beringia in small watercraft, before or during the last Ice Age.
A comparison in 2005 of the Lagoa Santa specimens, with the recently extinct Botocudos of the same region, also showed strong affinities, leading Neves to classify the Botocudos as Paleo-Indians.



 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Tropical adaptation that I am referring to is related to certain facial features that we associate, incorrectly, with Black people: wide nose, fleshy lips, prognathism

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
^^So in other words that was a matter of your own observatory opinion and not based on any fact. Since if those traits mentioned were only indicative of tropical adaptations and all people in the tropics had said features than shouldn't all tropical Africans look alike? We know this is not the case, and tropical Africans vary in cranio-facial characteristics.

What about those Africans who have thinner lips, thinner noses, and orthogonous profile, are they also adapted to the tropics or is this due to foreign admixture?

What about north east Asians who have broad noses, prognathism and fleshy lips, is this also indicative of their tropical adaptations? If so, why haven't these traits been lost since north east Asians have been residing outside of the tropics for millenia?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
^^So in other words that was a matter of your own observatory opinion and not based on any fact. Since if those traits mentioned were only indicative of tropical adaptations and all people in the tropics had said features than shouldn't all tropical Africans look alike? We know this is not the case, and tropical Africans vary in cranio-facial characteristics.

What about those Africans who have thinner lips, thinner noses, and orthogonous profile, are they also adapted to the tropics or is this due to foreign admixture?

What about north east Asians who have broad noses, prognathism and fleshy lips, is this also indicative of their tropical adaptations? If so, why haven't these traits been lost since north east Asians have been residing outside of the tropics for millenia?

---

So if it is in a book it is a fact where as what you can see with your own eyes are not?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
I have been to Korea and it has tropical zones. I have been to Okinawa and it is tropical. I have also been to places in China and there are tropical areas as well.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
People move around and mix and there is also random mutation.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
And Africa is not all tropical now is it.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Are you trying to tell me that facial features has nothing to do with adaptation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Its all silly. The way people look has to do with their origins and the climate and diet of their ancestors.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
When it comes to NE Asians the question you have to consider his what is in the food they are eating and not only their climate.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
The body plan of Mongoloid peoples varies considerably from that of SE Asians

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

So what is it with hypocrites like you? Ethiopians are Caucasoid even if they have frizzy hair and dark skin but Paleo Indians, Malenisians and SE Asians are not Black even if they have typical Black facial features.

Look - Paleo Indians look like Sub-Saharan Blacks because of climate and some dietary commonality. Also people living in the same climate look similar to each other. And why would we not expect this? Certainly Ethiopians are closer related to Bantu than Bantu are related to Paleo Indian people regardless of them looking very similar.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
^ You are making a lot of sense.

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quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
However, people do move around from one area to another.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
I am tropically adapted and live in Seattle.

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quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
I was talking about people's origins. Essentially the indigenous people of an area.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
There is also random mutation, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
In terms of climate and diet adaptation - no that is not my idea.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
It is the idea of clinal adaptation variation that you will get from so called geographical specialization theories.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Tropical adaptation features is really not my concept.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by the lion:
Is it your position that Paleo Indians, Malenisians and SE Asians are black if they have typical Black facial features?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

So what is it with hypocrites like you? Ethiopians are Caucasoid even if they have frizzy hair and dark skin but Paleo Indians, Malenisians and SE Asians are not Black even if they have typical Black facial features.

Look - Paleo Indians look like Sub-Saharan Blacks because of climate and some dietary commonality. Also people living in the same climate look similar to each other. And why would we not expect this? Certainly Ethiopians are closer related to Bantu than Bantu are related to Paleo Indian people regardless of them looking very similar.

---

Is it your position that Paleo Indians, Malenisians and SE Asians are black if they have typical Black facial features?

---

Do you consider Samoans, Australians and people from Fiyi Black? Really, the concept of Black is really whatever people want it to mean. It doesn't really mean much to me.

My point was that they are tropical people. I guess I should be more careful in defining "tropical" people. It is probably best to say - "Rain forest" adapted people. There's a lot of variations of tropical climates.

Being Black means different things in different socieities. Not sure what to think of the Olmecs. I think based on hair texture and lighter skin tone we would think they were something quite different than what we are use to. Probably something like "The Rock".


 

---

Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by osirion:

You were given examples of NE Asians who are not adapted to the tropics yet exhibit the features you originally mentioned and attributed to tropical adaptations, along with those from Africa who actually are adapted to the tropics, and in some cases extremely tropically adapted, yet they don't exhibit the features you mentioned. I.e., broad noses fleshy lips and prognathism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AswaniAswad:
Wrong. AFRICANs have the most diversity intra-populationally. Not inter populationally. Truth is, that there are no Africans that have wide noses, are orthognathic, thick lips, are brachicephalic and flat faced.

Is the Above True i need more information

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by osirion:

You were given examples of NE Asians who are not adapted to the tropics yet exhibit the features you originally mentioned and attributed to tropical adaptations, along with those from Africa who actually are adapted to the tropics, and in some cases extremely tropically adapted, yet they don't exhibit the features you mentioned. I.e., broad noses fleshy lips and prognathism.

---

Don't flatter yourself too much.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
If I claim that somone is tropically adapted because of a set of features it doesn't mean only tropically adapted people have those features.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Consider the context before making an argument.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
The Olmecs lived in a tropical rain forest.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
They are directly related to other new world people yet their features are significantly different.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
The difference is primarily the climate and diet of the people. In fact I would say Olmecs are a great example of climate adaptation diversity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Apparently all new world people are related and yet they have significantly diverged in terms of facial features.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
So we can see the affects of tropical rain forrest climate on people isolated from migration admixture by studying these people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
As for you points about elongated Africans. There are many different types of tropical climates. Some tropical climates are rain forrest, others are steppes, and yet more are savanna and so on. There are even dry areas in the tropical zones. What we are talking about is highly complex and some times highly localized weather patterns.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Sorry if I minimized the complexity by simply saying tropical adaptation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Should say - high precipitation tropics. But in Africa you are also dealing with more migration and a longer time span for those migrations to occur.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Also dealing with the Sahara dessert that used to be teeming with life and that entire population being forced into equatorial Africa or to the Nile Valley. There's a lot more churn in Africa resulting in more mixture of adaptive types.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

Where is your evidence of this claim?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

The Sahara Desert covers over 3.5 million square miles and has only 2.5 million inhabitants - roughly 1 person per square mile (0.4 sq km)- which is one of the lowest population densities on earth. Wherever abundant food and water sources occur, one will find relatively large masses of people and wildlife. On the whole, the Sahara is one of the harshest environments known to man.

Many researchers have gone into the Sahara looking for clues as to how long ago humans began inhabiting the desert. According to archeologists, the Sahara was much more densely populated thousands of years ago when the desert's climate was not as harsh as it is today. Fossils, rock art, stone artifacts, bone harpoons, shells and many other items have been found in areas which today are considered too hot and dry to inhabit. This suggests that these areas were quite habitable thousands of years ago, but that the climate of the Sahara has since changed drastically. The artifacts found were located near remains of giraffe, elephant, buffalo, antelopes, rhinoceros, and warthog, as well as the remains of fish, crocodiles, hippopotamuses and other aquatic animals which suggests that thousands of years ago water was quite abundant in the Sahara.


The Sahara itself is at least as large as the whole of Europe, if not bigger. lol

Enlarge the pic.

mapsharing.org


The Sahara Desert in Africa World's Largest Non-Polar Desert


The Sahara Desert is the largest non-polar Desert in the world. It's length spans 3000 miles across northern Africa - from the Atlantic ocean in the west to the Red Sea on the east. It's width spans from the Mediterranean Sea on the north and extends 1200 miles to the south to central Africa. It covers an area of approximately 3.5 million square miles, occupying portions of Morocco, Western Sahara, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, Ethiopa, Eritrea and Somalia.




Sahara Desert Map

The Sahara Desert is Earth's largest non-polar desert. Tour the Sahara using the Google map below. Click on the red icons to learn more about some of the volcanoes, irrigation, meteor impacts, sand dunes, shrinking lakes and mountains of the Sahara Desert. Use the navigation buttons to zoom and move about.


web page

Climate


The Sahara's desert climate is believed to have been established over five million years ago during the Pliocene Epoch. Since then the Sahara has been subject to short- to medium-length dry and humid conditions, which have contributed to the unique climate of the Sahara today. For the past 2,000 years, the climate of the Sahara has remained quite consistent, except for a period of time in the 16th and 18th century when there was a "Little Ice Age" in Europe. This ice age significantly increased the amount of precipitation over the whole Sahara Desert until around the 19th century. By this time, the climate had become quite stable again and resembled the desert climate of today.


Dry, subtropical climate


Generally, the dry subtropical climate found in the north is caused by constant high-pressure cells over the tropic of Cancer. The winters are considered cool for desert conditions, with an average temperature of 55° F (13° C). The summers are very hot, with the highest ever recorded temperature at 13° F (58° C). The average rainfall in the subtropical region is approximately 3 inches (76 mm) per year. Precipitation generally falls between December and March, with the maximum rain falling in August and almost no rain at all during May and June. The August storms have been known to cause flash floods which send water to parts of the desert that rarely receive precipitation.

Dry Tropical Climate



The climate of the southern tropical region of the Sahara is dictated by a stable continental air mass and an unstable marine air mass. The average temperature in this region is about 31.5° F (17.5° C), however in the higher elevations, the temperature has been recorded at 5° F (-15° C), which is quite typical. The average annual precipitation is around five inches and includes snow in the higher elevations. In the western part of the tropical region, the cold Canary Current reduces the amount of rainfall, lowers the average temperature, and increases the humidity and the probability of fog.


web page


Physical Features

The Sahara's topographical features include shallow basins, large oasis depressions, serirs or regs (gravel-covered plains), plateaus, mountains, sand sheets, dunes and sand seas (ergs). The highest part of the desert is at the summit of Mount Koussi, which is 11,204 feet (3,415 m) high. However, the lowest point of the Sahara is 436 feet (133 m) below sea level: in the Qattera Depression in Egypt.

Over 25 percent of the Sahara's surface is covered by sand sheets and dunes. The most common types of dunes include tied dunes, blowout dunes, barchan and transverse dunes, longitudinal seirfs, and complex sand seas. Within the Sahara are several pyramidal dunes that reach over 500 feet in height while the draa, a mountainous sand ridge, reaches over 1,000 feet. Researchers have for many years tried to figure out how these dunes were formed, but the case remains unsolved.
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

?


lol @ this clown

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

Where is your evidence of this claim?


Modern studies show diversity in how people look is heavily based on distance from sub-Saharan Africa, not merely climate.

In genetically diverse Africa, broad-nosed people live on the cool or cold mountain slopes of East Africa or the hot, dry Sahara, and narrow-nosed peoples like many Fulani like in the wet tropics of West Africa. Yellowish-skinned San tribes live in the hot zones of Southern Africa.

"The relative importance of ancient demography and climate in determining worldwide patterns of human within-population phenotypic diversity is still open to debate. Several morphometric traits have been argued to be under selection by climatic factors, but it is unclear whether climate affects the global decline in morphological diversity with increasing geographical distance from sub-Saharan Africa. Using a large database of male and female skull measurements, we apply an explicit framework to quantify the relative role of climate and distance from Africa. We show that distance from sub-Saharan Africa is the sole determinant of human within-population phenotypic diversity, while climate plays no role. By selecting the most informative set of traits, it was possible to explain over half of the worldwide variation in phenotypic diversity. These results mirror those previously obtained for genetic markers and show that 'bones and molecules' are in perfect agreement for humans." (Distance from Africa, not climate, explains within-population phenotypic diversity in humans.

(2008) by: Lia Betti, François Balloux, William Amos, Tsunehiko Hanihara, Andrea Manica, Proceedings B: Biological Sciences, 2008/12/02)

---

(Distance from Africa, not climate, explains within-population phenotypic diversity in humans.)

This means that people are more homogeneous as you get further from Africa. It does not mean that phenotype cannot be correlated to climate. That is not the arguments being made.
 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 



http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002168;p=1#000000
 

---

Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist. Since there are various types of tropical zones in Africa, the climatic adaptations in the tropics would vary. There is also dessert type climates that Black Africans have adapted to. Also mountainous regions in the tropics.

In terms of NE Asia, there are actually very good examples of climate adaptations of isolated groups of people that support my theory.

These two people are directly related to each other genetically. One appears almost like a European and the other almost like the Bantu.


The Ainu of Japan are the indigenous people of Japan and Russia. They look almost like Caucasians.



For a long time Europeans claimed an Eastern European origin for the Ainu. However, what is rather remarkable, is that genetic tests show these people to be closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands. Essentially, the Ainu are descendent's of Negrito people.




The Ainu are adapted to the colder climate on Northern Japan which is similar to Europe. And the Andaman peoples are tropically adapted.
 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist. Since there are various types of tropical zones in Africa, the climatic adaptations in the tropics would vary.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
There is also dessert type climates that Black Africans have adapted to. Also mountainous regions in the tropics.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
In terms of NE Asia, there are actually very good examples of climate adaptations of isolated groups of people that support my theory.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
These two people are directly related to each other genetically.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
One appears almost like a European

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
and the other almost like the Bantu.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
The Ainu of Japan are the indigenous people of Japan and Russia. They look almost like Caucasians.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
For a long time Europeans claimed an Eastern European origin for the Ainu.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
However, what is rather remarkable, is that genetic tests show these people to be closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Essentially, the Ainu are descendent's of Negrito people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
The Ainu are adapted to the colder climate on Northern Japan which is similar to Europe.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
And the Andaman peoples are tropically adapted.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist.

---

Actually, what you did was limited tropical adaptations to a specific phenotype (broad nose, fleshy lips and prognathism).

Admit to your fault, and move on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist. Since there are various types of tropical zones in Africa, the climatic adaptations in the tropics would vary.

---

Extending; Indeed as I noted, and hence why not all indigenous Africans look alike.

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
There is also dessert type climates that Black Africans have adapted to. Also mountainous regions in the tropics.

---

Like which dessert type climates have indigenous Africans adapted to?

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
In terms of NE Asia, there are actually very good examples of climate adaptations of isolated groups of people that support my theory.

---

Really? Elaborate please on your theory and present these examples, thanks. Below the tropics of cancer? Remember that.

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
These two people are directly related to each other genetically.

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Genetic evidence of direct relation?

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
One appears almost like a European

---

What does a European look like?

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
and the other almost like the Bantu.

---

What does a Bantu look like?

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
The Ainu of Japan are the indigenous people of Japan and Russia. They look almost like Caucasians.

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^^What makes him look like a "Caucasian"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
For a long time Europeans claimed an Eastern European origin for the Ainu.

---

Old news.

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
However, what is rather remarkable, is that genetic tests show these people to be closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands.

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Remarkable to you of course. Just like it was remarkable that for example Tutsis and Fulani are actually indigenous tropically adapted Africans right?

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Essentially, the Ainu are descendent's of Negrito people.

---

Genetic evidence please, that they (Ainu) descend from "Negrito people"?

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
The Ainu are adapted to the colder climate on Northern Japan which is similar to Europe.

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Yea, which lightened their skintone, of course.

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
And the Andaman peoples are tropically adapted.

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Yes, the Andamin islanders are tropically adapted, because they reside in the tropics

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist. Since there are various types of tropical zones in Africa, the climatic adaptations in the tropics would vary. There is also dessert type climates that Black Africans have adapted to. Also mountainous regions in the tropics.

In terms of NE Asia, there are actually very good examples of climate adaptations of isolated groups of people that support my theory.

These two people are directly related to each other genetically. One appears almost like a European and the other almost like the Bantu.


The Ainu of Japan are the indigenous people of Japan and Russia. They look almost like Caucasians.



For a long time Europeans claimed an Eastern European origin for the Ainu. However, what is rather remarkable, is that genetic tests show these people to be closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands. Essentially, the Ainu are descendent's of Negrito people.




The Ainu are adapted to the colder climate on Northern Japan which is similar to Europe. And the Andaman peoples are tropically adapted.

---

A study on the haplo D marker.

YAP insertion signature in South Asia

by: A. Chandrasekar, S. Y. Saheb, P. Gangopadyaya, S. Gangopadyaya, A. Mukherjee, D. Basu, G. R. Lakshmi, A. K. Sahani, B. Das, S. Battacharya, S. Kumar, D. Xaviour, D. Sun, V. R. Rao

"while the founder effect may have resulted in the highest incidence of haplotype D among the Andaman Islanders."




"The results of YAP insertion and the evidence of previous mtDNA studies indicate an early out of Africa migration to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands."


A total of 2169 samples from 21 tribal populations from different regions of India were scanned for the Y-chromosome Alu polymorphism. This study reports, for the first time, high frequencies (8–65%) of Y Alu polymorphic (YAP) insertion in northeast Indian tribes. All seven Jarawa samples from the Andaman and Nicobar islands had the YAP insertion, in conformity with an earlier study of Andaman Islanders.The results of YAP insertion and the evidence of previous mtDNA studies indicate an early out of Africa migration to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.. YAP insertion frequencies reported in the mainland Indian populations are negligible, according to previous studies. Genetic drift may be the causative factor for the variable frequency of the YAP insertion in the mainland populations, while the founder effect may have resulted in the highest incidence of haplotype D among the Andaman Islanders. The results of YAP insertion and the evidence of previous mtDNA studies indicate an early out of Africa migration to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. The findings of YAP insertion in northeast Indian tribes are very significant for understanding the evolutionary history of the region.


Y-DNA haplogroup D is seen primarily in Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and in Japan and was established approximately 50,000 years ago. Sub-group D1 (D-M15) is seen in Tibet, Mongolia, Central Asia, and Southeast Asia, and the sub-groups D*(D-M174) and D3 (D-P47) are seen in Central Asia. The sub-group D2 (D-M55) is seen almost exclusively in Japan. The high frequency of haplogroup D in Tibet (about 50%) and in Japan (about 35%) implies some early migratory connection between these areas. Examination of the genetic diversity seen in sub-group D2 in Japan implies that this group has been isolated in Japan for between 12,000-20,000 years. The highest frequencies of D2 in Japan are seen among the Ainu and the Ryukyuans.


The Ainu people


A Dutch- Japanese website.


They show old photos of Japan.


Ainu Chief




Here is the site, it’s in English, Dutch and of course in Japanese.

Ainu chiefs played an important role in their society. Each Ainu village was administered by three hereditary chiefs. Interestingly, they were not allowed to judge criminals. This function was performed by other members of the community.

The Ainu are a distinctive ethnic group which used to have a culture completely different from that of the Japanese. This culture was virtually destroyed during the Meiji Period when policies aimed at assimilating the Ainu into Japanese culture outlawed their language and restricted their activities.

The word Ainu is derived from the word Aynu, which means human. These days some Ainu prefer the term Utari. During the Edo Period they were often referred to as Ezo, Yezo or Emishi. Although the Ainu probably inhabited large areas of Japan, they are now mainly found in Hokkaido.

During the 20th century heated debate raged over the origins of the Ainu. This was finally settled by the mid 1990’s when genetic studies showed that they are “the descendants of Japan’s ancient Jomon inhabitants, mixed with Korean genes of Yayoi colonists and of the modern Japanese.”1

1 Diamond, Jared (June, 1998). Japanese Roots. Discover Magazine Vol. 19: 86-94.




web page Old Photos Japan
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

What I showed was, the diversity of the sub-Saharan landscape. And the diversity of the people in that area. I also showed you a map, so you could see the scale of Africa as a whole. AS well as a map of climatic differences in within Africa, sub-Sahara. You have to take into consideration that tribes moved around or stayed in one place. This had effect on their diet and adaption into that environment as it changed over time, and effected their physical appearances.

Personally, I think that this is where genetic mutations started to occur.

Within China alone you will see multiple ethnic groups/ tribes ranging from darker to lighter complexion, I've heard that even the hight of Chinese in the North differs from those who live in the South, due to Mountain area and coastal areas adaption over time.

In India it the same, you will see light complexion as well as dark complexion. (Also known as ethnic groups). And you may say again, I don't see it I fail to see your point.

But that is exactly why Africa is more diverse BECAUSE EVEN NUT-JOBS LIKE YOU CAN SEE IT. Africa has more ethnic groups/ TRIBES (within the same "race").

Siberians are mongoloids, yet are very pale compared to other mongoloids.



Ethnic Minorities in China

From the hinterlands of the north, to the lush jungles in the south, from the mountains of Taiwan in the east, to the top of the world in the west, China serves as home to 56 official ethnic groups. The largest group, the Han, make up over 92% of China's vast population, and it is the elements of Han civilization that world considers "Chinese culture." Yet, the 55 ethnic minorities, nestled away on China's vast frontiers, maintain their own rich traditions and customs, and all are part of Chinese culture.

Click, and be elaborated....

web page Chinese Culture Center of San Francisco
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 
Yet, in the Philippines we see people of the Ati tribe.






 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

Archaeologists discover ancient ships in Egypt


Bard, a CAS associate professor of archaeology, and her former student Chen Sian Lim (CAS’01) had been shoveling sand for scarcely an hour on their first day of excavation on a parched bluff rising from the shore at Wadi Gawasis when a fist-sized hole appeared in the hillside. “I stuck my hand in, and that was the entrance to the first cave,” Bard says. “Things like that don’t happen very often in archaeology.”

Led by Bard and Italian archaeologist Rodolfo Fattovich of the University of Naples l’Orientale, the team uncovered the rectangular entrance to a second cave, constructed with cedar beams and blocks of limestone that were former ship anchors. Inside they found a network of larger rooms and an assortment of nautical items, among them ropes, a wooden bowl, and a mesh bag. They also found two curved cedar planks that were probably the steering oars on a 70-foot-long ship from Queen Hatshepsut’s famous 15th-century b.c. naval expedition to Punt, a trade destination somewhere in the southern Red Sea region. Buried in sand outside the second cave, the team found a piece of rope still tied in what she believes is a sailor’s knot. “It must have come from a ship,” she says. “It couldn’t have been used for anything else.” Fragments of pottery scattered near the artifacts date to Egypt’s early 18th dynasty, circa 1500 b.c., around the time Hatshepsut reigned.

The archaeologists also discovered several stelae (pronounced steely), limestone slabs about the size of small modern tombstones, installed in niches outside the second cave. Most were blank, but Bard found one, face down in the sand, with the cartouche of King Amenemhat III, who ruled about 1800 b.c. The text recounts two expeditions led by government officials to Punt and Bia-Punt, whose location is uncertain. “That this stela has been preserved with very little damage for that long is really unusual,” she says, “and the preservation of organic material in the caves is truly remarkable. I’ve worked in Egypt since 1976, and I’ve never seen anything like this.”

Bard’s colleagues share her enthusiasm. “I think it is a very exciting discovery,” says John Baines, an Egyptologist on the faculty of oriental studies at Oxford University. “People have tended to assume that the Egyptians didn’t do a tremendous amount of long-distance travel because very few remains of these sites have been found.” Based on texts discovered over a century ago, reseachers have known that Egyptians mounted naval expeditions to Punt as far back as the Old Kingdom (2686–2125 b.c.). In Punt they acquired gold, ebony, elephant ivory, leopard skins, and exotic animals such as baboons that were kept as pets, along with the frankincense necessary for religious rituals.

The discovery is shedding light on other aspects of the Red Sea trade. “It was not known until we found this stela that King Amenemhat III had sent any expeditions to Punt,” Bard says. “That makes this an important historical text.” The team also found fragments of pottery inside the small cave that the Italian archaeologists believe originated in Yemen, which suggests the Egyptians either sailed further than had been previously thought or were part of a more complex web of trade.

Sailing to Punt required a tremendous investment of manpower. Egyptian shipbuilders harvested cedar from the mountains of Lebanon and transported it up the Nile to a shipbuilding site, where the vessels were first assembled and then disassembled into travel-ready pieces that could be carried on a 10-day journey across about 100 miles of desert to the coast. “The logistics involved were phenomenal,” Bard says. “They’d have to carry fresh water and supplies for travel.”



Egyptian sailors wove rope (bottom) from halfa grass and may have used this rope bag (top) to haul cargo to and from the land of Punt about 3,500 years ago. Photos by Cinzia Perlingieri


Trading places


During the 1990s, Bard and Fattovich had conducted a 10-year excavation near Aksum, Ethiopia, where they found evidence of a previously unknown period in African civilization. But when war broke out along the Eritrean border in 1998, they decided to relocate to the Egyptian coastline. The team went first to Wadi Gawasis in 2001 to investigate “the other end of Red Sea trade,” Bard says.

Fattovich selected Wadi Gawasis because in the 1970s an Egyptian archaeologist had identified it as the likely location of the ancient seaport of Saaw, known from texts as the departure point for expeditions to Punt. The team limits its excavation to the six weeks between semesters each winter, avoiding the extreme heat and humidity during the summer.

While Bard is thrilled by the recent cave discoveries, she notes that they have only begun to discover the secrets of Wadi Gawasis. “I’m sure there’s at least one other cave we haven’t excavated yet,” she says. “There may be many more. And we’ve only just cleared out the entrance to the large cave, and it’s enormous. We have years’ more work to do there.”

When she returns next December, she will be joined by a researcher who will use ground-penetrating radar to determine if there are more caves and to estimate how far back the known caves extend. An engineer will help the team support the partially collapsed ceilings in some of the caves. “It was the find of a lifetime,” Bard says, “and there’s much more to discover there.”


One minor input, the land of Punt is known as the Horn of Africa region.

I will elaborate on this...
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
The trojan horse (black) won't work any longer!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVlkbsuCjA&playnext_from=TL&videos=GhT0dUCHIWQ&feature=sub

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

Ancient humans 'followed rains'



The Eastern Sahara covers an area the size of Western Europe



Prehistoric humans roamed the world's largest desert for some 5,000 years, archaeologists have revealed.

The Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya and Chad was home to nomadic people who followed rains that turned the desert into grassland.

When the landscape dried up about 7,000 years ago, there was a mass exodus to the Nile and other parts of Africa.

The close link between human settlement and climate has lessons for today, researchers report in Science.

"Even modern day conflicts such as Dafur are caused by environmental degradation as it has been in the past," Dr Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne, Germany, told the BBC News website.

"The basic struggle for food, water and pasture is still a big problem in the Sahara zone. This process started thousands of years ago and has a long tradition.


Jigsaw puzzle

The Eastern Sahara, which covers more than 2 million sq km, an area the size of Western Europe, is now almost uninhabited by people or animals, providing a unique window into the past.


Rock art from the "swimmers cave" in remote southwest Egypt. Image: Science
The settlers left their mark with art


The settlers left their mark with art

Dr Kropelin and colleague Dr Rudolph Kuper pieced together the 10,000-year jigsaw of human migration and settlement; studying more than 100 archaeological sites over the course of 30 years.

In the largest study of its kind, they built up a detailed picture of human evolution in the world's largest desert. They found that far from the inhospitable climate of today, the area was once semi-humid.


Between about 14,000 and 13,000 years ago, the area was very dry. But a drastic switch in environmental conditions some 10,500 years ago brought rain and monsoon-like conditions.

Nomadic human settlers moved in from the south, taking up residence beside rivers and lakes. They were hunter-gatherers at first, living off plants and wild game.


Eventually they became more settled, domesticating cattle for the first time, and making intricate pottery.


Neolithic farmers Humid conditions prevailed until about 6,000 years ago, when the Sahara abruptly dried out. There was then a gradual exodus of people to the Nile Valley and other parts of the African continent.


"The Nile Valley was almost devoid of settlement until about exactly the time that the Egyptian Sahara was so dry people could not live there anymore," Dr Kropelin told the BBC News website.


The domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa Dr Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne


"People preferred to live on savannah land. Only when this wasn't possible they migrated towards southern Sudan and the Nile.

"They brought all their know-how to the rest of the continent - the domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa.

"This Neolithic way of life, which still is a way of life in a sense; preservation of food for the dry season and many other such cultural elements, was introduced to central and southern Africa from the Sahara."


Motor of evolution' Dr Kuper said the distribution of people and languages, which is so politically important today, has its roots in the desiccation of the Sahara. The switch in environmental conditions acted as a "motor of Africa's evolution," he said. "It happened during these 5,000 years of the savannah that people changed from hunter-gathers to cattle keepers," he said. "This important step in human history has been made for the first time in the African Sahara."


web page
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hammer:
Modern photographs are less than worthless in trying to make a point about ancient history.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

What I showed was, the diversity of the sub-Saharan landscape.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Again, Africa is not all tropical and as a result not all Black Africans look the same.

---

On a second look, this above statement from you is a pure example wherein you're trying (still) to pigeonhole tropical adaptations to a single phenotype, you seem to believe the variation amongst Africans has something to do with adapting inside and outside of the tropics of Africa. This is something you've failed to prove. As I've noted already the only indigenous Africans who have moved out of the tropics and resided there enough to alter their limb proportions and skin color would be the Khoisan of southern Africa.

---

I said I minimized the types of tropics that exist.

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Actually, what you did was limited tropical adaptations to a specific phenotype (broad nose, fleshy lips and prognathism).

Admit to your fault, and move on.

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No, my concept of what is tropical was incorrect.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hammer:
Modern photographs are less than worthless in trying to make a point about ancient history.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

What I showed was, the diversity of the sub-Saharan landscape.

---

Uhh again, why are you showing me this, what would make you think I wasn't aware of the diversity in S.S.A? I asked you to show me specifically or explain what I said to prompt your response towards me all of which has been irrelevant.

Perhaps you should've checked the link I provided...

Here it is again

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002168;p=1#000000

---

So how did anybody else on the planet got the way they are now, if climate and diet doesn't effect the physical Characteristics?

I remember the first Hue men comes from East Africa!

Why are modern people getting taller in certain parts of the world?


A 160,000-year-old skull found in Ethiopia is the oldest known modern human fossil. Because the skull is slightly larger than those of modern-day humans, scientists have classified it as a subspecie


An artist's reconstruction of an adult male Homo sapiens idaltu.



Oldest Human Fossils Found

Human Origins

See more pictures and find out about other ancient species of humans

After six years of analysis, fossil hunters in Africa have confirmed the discovery of the oldest fossilized remains of modern humans yet found — portions of skulls belonging to people who lived 160,000 years ago. Paleontologists say the discovery adds detail to a crucial period in human evolution, and confirms the hypothesis that modern humans evolved in Africa. NPR's Christopher Joyce reports.

A team led by University of California, Berkeley paleontologist Tim White found the fossils in desert sands near the Ethiopian village of Herto.

"These are the oldest fossils that we can confidently place in our own species, Homo sapiens," says White.

The bones were uncovered in 1997, but it took six years to clean the pieces, glue them together and analyze their features. Because the fossils were in volcanic sediment, they could be reliably dated based on radioisotopes in the soil. White's team puts their age at 160,000 years. That beats the previous record for a human fossil by tens of thousands of years.

Two of the skulls from Herto belonged to adult males, and one to a child of six or seven. Each of the adult skulls was remarkably big.

"We compared this with skulls of 6,000 modern humans, and still after that comparison not one was as big and robust as the Herto male," says White. "These were very, very large robust people."

And yet they were also like modern-day humans in almost every feature. The face is flat with prominent cheekbones, but without the protruding brow ridge of pre-human ancestors or Neanderthals. And the braincase is rounded, like a soccer ball, rather than the football shape of earlier human ancestors.

There are other fossils of early humans almost as old. But they're only fragments, and the dating is unreliable — a common problem in paleontology. But these skulls are almost complete, says Harvard paleontologist Daniel Lieberman, and that provides what paleontologists crave: certainty.

"What's really exciting about these fossils is that they are the best early modern humans we have ever found and the best dated — this is just like nailing the coffin shut," says Lieberman. "We've got a good date now."

The fossils also confirm what genetic research has recently proposed: that modern humans evolved in Africa. There's little question that pre-human ancestors first appeared in Africa. Or that about 2 million years ago, they left Africa to populate parts of Asia, the Middle East and Europe. But some say primitive humans evolved into modern humans in many places around the world. Others, such as paleontologist Chris Stringer from the Museum of Natural History in London, say modern humans clearly evolved in in Africa.

"What this discovery in Ethiopia shows is that the shared features of modern humans — our high-rounded brain case, small brow ridges — originated in Africa," says Stringer.

Those first real humans, he says, most likely left Africa in a second wave that eventually replaced the remnants of the first, pre-human diaspora.

According to Berkeley's Tim White, the evidence also lays to rest any notion that Neanderthals were direct human ancestors. Rather, he says, they were a branch of pre-human evolution that remained isolated in Europe.

The study appears in the current issue of the journal Nature.


web page
 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9th Element:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
I fail to see your point is it supposed to counter something I said? Specifically?

---

What I showed was, the diversity of the sub-Saharan landscape.

---

Uhh again, why are you showing me this, what would make you think I wasn't aware of the diversity in S.S.A? I asked you to show me specifically or explain what I said to prompt your response towards me all of which has been irrelevant.

Perhaps you should've checked the link I provided...

Here it is again

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=002168;p=1#000000

---

So how did anybody else on the planet got the way they are now, if climate and diet doesn't effect the physical Characteristics?

---

quote:

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The Theory: Native American Genetic Markers
First, an explanation of the theory behind using genetics

to determine Native American identity is in order. Scientists have found certain variations, or “markers” in human genes that they call Native American markers because they believe all “original” Native Americans had these genetic traits. The theory is that, if a person has one of these markers, certain ancestors of the person must have been Native American.

The markers are principally analyzed in two locations in people's genes‚ in their mitochondrial DNA and on the Y-chromosome. On the mitochondrial DNA, there are a total of five different ÒhaplotypesÓ,

called A, B, C, D, and X, which areincreasingly called “Native American markers,” and are believed to be a genetic signature of the founding ancestors.ÅÅ

As for the Y-chromosome, there are two primary lineages or “haplogroups” that are seen in modern Native American groups, called M3 and M45. Some scientists maintain that up to 95% of all Native American Y-chromosomes are from these two groups (with the rest being from either Asian lineages or non-native haplogroups). It must be pointed out that none of these

markers is exclusive to Native American populations‚all can be found in other populations around the world. They simply occur with more frequency in Native American populations.

Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers are the most commonly used

genetic markers used for analysis of Native American ancestry. But how does testing for these genes work?

---

http://www.ipcb.org/publications/briefing_papers/files/identity.html
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 
Nearly all of today’s Native Americans can trace their ancestry to six women

web page anthropology.net



The Phylogeny of the Four Pan-American MtDNA Haplogroups: Implications for Evolutionary and Disease Studies

Alessandro Achilli1,2, Ugo A. Perego1,3, Claudio M. Bravi4, Michael D. Coble5, Qing-Peng Kong6,7, Scott R. Woodward3, Antonio Salas8, Antonio Torroni1*, Hans-Jürgen Bandelt9

1 Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, Università di Pavia, Pavia, Italy, 2 Dipartimento di Biologia Cellulare e Ambientale, Università degli Studi di Perugia, Perugia, Italy, 3 Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation, Salt Lake City, Utah, United States of America, 4 Laboratorio de Genética Molecular Poblacional, Instituto Multidisciplinario de Biología Celular (IMBICE), La Plata, Argentina, 5 Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Rockville, Maryland, United States of America, 6 Laboratory of Cellular and Molecular Evolution, and Molecular Biology of Domestic Animals, Kunming Institute of Zoology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Kunming, China, 7 Laboratory for Conservation and Utilization of Bio-resource, Yunnan University, Kunming, China, 8 Unidade de Xenética, Instituto de Medicina Legal, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad de Santiago de Compostela, Grupo de Medicina Xenómica, Hospital Clínico Universitario, Santiago de Compostela, Galicia, Spain, 9 Department of Mathematics, University of Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany


Abstract


Only a limited number of complete mitochondrial genome sequences belonging to Native American haplogroups were available until recently, which left America as the continent with the least amount of information about sequence variation of entire mitochondrial DNAs. In this study, a comprehensive overview of all available complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) genomes of the four pan-American haplogroups A2, B2, C1, and D1 is provided by revising the information scattered throughout GenBank and the literature, and adding 14 novel mtDNA sequences. The phylogenies of haplogroups A2, B2, C1, and D1 reveal a large number of sub-haplogroups but suggest that the ancestral Beringian population(s) contributed only six (successful) founder haplotypes to these haplogroups. The derived clades are overall starlike with coalescence times ranging from 18,000 to 21,000 years (with one exception) using the conventional calibration. The average of about 19,000 years somewhat contrasts with the corresponding lower age of about 13,500 years that was recently proposed by employing a different calibration and estimation approach. Our estimate indicates a human entry and spread of the pan-American haplogroups into the Americas right after the peak of the Last Glacial Maximum and comfortably agrees with the undisputed ages of the earliest Paleoindians in South America. In addition, the phylogenetic approach also indicates that the pathogenic status proposed for various mtDNA mutations, which actually define branches of Native American haplogroups, was based on insufficient grounds.


Introduction

America was the last continent to be colonized by humans, and molecular data provided by different genetic systems [1], [2] have been extensively employed to shed light on the routes and times of human arrival and dispersion into the New World. As for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), it has been clear, since the early nineties, that mtDNAs of Native Americans could be traced back to four major haplogroups of Asian origin shared by North, Central and South American populations [3]–[7]. These were initially named A, B, C and D, and are now termed A2, B2, C1 and D1 [8]. Afterwards, a fifth haplogroup – now known as X2a – was described in Native Americans, but in contrast to the four “pan-American” haplogroups, its geographic distribution is restricted to some Amerindian populations of northern North America [8]–[12]. Later, two more haplogroups – D2a and D3 – were identified: D2a in the Aleuts and Eskimos [13], [14] and D3 only in the Eskimos [15], [16]. Most recently there were two further (uncommon) additions – D4h3 and C4c [14], [17] – bringing the total number of Native American haplogroups to nine.

Since the early studies, the interpretation of mtDNA data has been rather controversial with scenarios postulating one to multiple migrational events from Beringia at very different times (between 11,000 and 40,000 years ago) (for a review, see [7]). Pinpointing an accurate timeframe for the arrival of the Native American founders would be essential to solve such a debate. Yet, accurate ages can only be based on large numbers of complete mitochondrial genomes, and American mtDNA haplogroups were only poorly represented in the total database of >3000 complete mtDNA sequences until very recently. Thus, despite the protagonist role of Native American mtDNAs in high-resolution mtDNA studies 15 years ago [4], America remained the continent from which we had the least information about the sequence variation of entire mtDNAs. Worse, the available information had to be retrieved from the web in a hit or miss fashion and suffers in part from improper documentation, oversights, and inadvertent nomenclature (Text S1). The overall situation is now beginning to change with some new data available in literature and public databases [14], [18], [19], but the interpretation of subsets of these data continue to remain controversial. For instance, the work by Tamm et al. [14] suggests that the Asian ancestors of the first Native Americans paused when they reached Beringia and that their (swift) migration southward might have occurred only ~13,500 years ago.

Among the novel mtDNA sequences, there are 265 from “Hispanics” and “African-Americans” that recently became available in GenBank [19]. A survey of their variation reveals that 101 mtDNAs of Native American origin were included (47 belonging to haplogroups [/b] A2, 13 to B2, [/b] 30 to C1, and 11 to D1). Those mtDNAs are not associated with either a specific Native American population/tribe or a specific geographic region but are undoubtedly of Native American origin. Furthermore, due to the fact that these are all from individuals living in the US, they probably provide a fairly good overview of the mtDNA pool of extant or extinct Native American populations from North and Central America plus the Caribbean (due to the contribution of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Salvadorans, etc. to the present-day US American population), and their analysis might provide important new clues about the process of human colonization of the Americas and the origin of Native Americans. Thus, the aim of this paper is not only to (i) perform a comprehensive analysis of all available complete (or almost complete) sequences of Native American ancestry belonging to the four major pan-American haplogroups, (ii) identify their internal clades and candidate founder sequences, and (iii) estimate their expansion times into the Americas, but also to (iv) provide a framework on which future phylogeographic studies, which remain scarce, can build upon.


Results Top
The phylogeny of pan-American haplogroups A2, B2, C1, and D1

To define the phylogeny of A2, B2, C1, and D1 at the highest level of molecular resolution – that of complete mtDNA sequences, it is necessary to evaluate (and possibly to expand) the current data set of published mtDNA sequences in regard to reliability as well as to update and correct the nomenclature (Text S1). Figure 1 displays the roots of A2, B2, C1 and D1, together with the complete sequences belonging to the much less common Native American haplogroups C4c, D2a, D3, D4h3 and X2a [8], [9], [12]–[15], [20]. Moreover, for a better discrimination from closely related Native American counterparts, some Asian (or Beringian) branches (B4b1a2, A2a, A2b, C1a, C4a, C4b, D2b, and D4h1) are illustrated. As for the phylogeny of haplogroup A2, we maintain the codes A2a and A2b for the circumpolar branches [16]. For branch A2a with the characteristic C16192T transition in HVS-I (which on its own is insufficient to identify a haplogroup because it is highly recurrent throughout the mtDNA phylogeny), coding-region information is now available revealing the additional diagnostic marker C3330T [14], [18].





Figure 1. Basal tree encompassing the roots of Native American mtDNA haplogroups.

The tree is rooted on the haplogroup L3 founder and the position of the revised Cambridge reference sequence (rCRS) [49] is indicated for reading off sequence motifs. Closely related Asian branches are indicated in green. Detailed phylogenies for the four pan-American haplogroups (A2, B2, C1, and D1, highlighted in red) are shown in the corresponding figures. The complete sequences that are currently available for the other four Native American haplogroups (X2a, C4c, D2a, and D4h3, highlighted in red) are also displayed. Haplogroup D3 is common among Inuit populations [16], but all complete sequences available are from Siberia [13], [18]. As for A2a, the HVS-I motif (16111 16192 16223 16233 16290 16319 16331) of the reported sequence (no. 1) is common in Na-Dené groups [5]. Sequence no. 2 has been revised taking into account that the originally reported transitions at 4732 and 5147 [8] were artifacts due to a sample mix-up, while sequence no. 6 represents the shared motif of six Aleutian mitochondrial genomes [13]. Mutations are transitions unless specified: suffixes indicate transversions (to A, G, C, or T) or indels (+, d). Mutations back to the rCRS nucleotide are prefixed with @. Recurrent mutational events are underlined. Mutations in italics are either disease-causing or heteroplasmic or likely erroneous (and do not enter age calculations). We have followed the recent guidelines for standardization of the alignment in long C stretches [50], but disregarded any length variation in the C stretches that would then be scored at 309 or 16193 (which is often subject to considerable heteroplasmy). A number flagging a circled haplotype indicates the number of individuals sharing the corresponding haplotype (if >1). Additional information is provided in Text S4, while Table S1 lists the source of the complete genomes.

The complete variation of all available mtDNA sequences belonging to haplogroups A2, B2, C1, and D1 is displayed in the phylogenies of Figures 2 and 3. As for the phylogeny of A2 (Figure 2), we rename the “A2a” and “A2b” branches of Accetturo et al. [21] as A2d and A2e, maintaining the definition of A2c for the branch with the motif T12468C-G14364A. Moreover, we define six novel branches (A2f - A2k) based on all available information for haplogroup A2 (Table S1) and [20], [22]. Numerous independent back mutations at nucleotide positions (nps) 64, 146, 152, 153, 16111, and 16362 are evident (that on their own do not justify support for subhaplogroup naming). Many HVS-I and HVS-II lineages from haplogroup A2 reflect this seemingly mosaic feature of instability. Some additional information on the population distribution of the subhaplogroups can also be drawn from the early high-resolution RFLP data [5], [23] and an extensive database of published control-region sequences (mainly comprising HVS-I) (Text S2).
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http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001764


Y-DNA haplogroup A represents the oldest branching of the human Y chromosome tree, thought to have begun about 60,000 years ago. Like Y-DNA haplogroup B,

"the A lineage is seen only in Africa and is scattered widely, but thinly across the continent."

These haplogroups have higher frequencies among hunter-gather groups in Ethiopia and Sudan, and are also seen among click language-speaking populations. Their patchy, widespread distribution may mean that these haplogroups are remnants of ancient lineages that once had a much wider range but have been largely displaced by more recent population events.

The most commonly seen sub-groups of haplogroup A are A2 (A-M6), A3b1 (A-M51), and A3b2 (A-M13). Sub-groups A2 and A3b1 are seen in South Africa, with A3b1 seen exclusively among the Khoisan. The range of A3b2 is restricted to Eastern Africa and at lower frequencies among Cameroonians. About 1.1% of African-Americans belong to the sub-group A3b2.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpA09.htm...
 

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Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
 
A wiki abstract (I know it's not the bed source) I am lacking the actual papers of this study case. Help is welcome.


Contiguous population hypothesis


Archeological evidence also suggests that in prehistoric times, populations ancestral to the Khoisan may have lived in areas that extended as far North as Ethiopia and Sudan. The disjointed distribution of haplogroup A may indicate that it was once frequent among hunter gatherers throughout Africa but many of its sub-clades would have been replaced by haplogroup E lineages that arrived with farmers during the Bantu migration.[8] Pockets of Haplogroups A and B would have persisted in populations, such as Ethiopians, Nilo-Saharans and Pygmies, that were isolated from migrating Bantu farmers.

Additional support for an ancient link between the Khoisan and Northeast Africans comes from mitochondrial DNA studies. As with the Y-chromosome, Ethiopians and the Khoisan share the deepest clades of the human mitochondrial phylogeny. Haplogroup L0 clades are found among the Khoisan and East Africans (such as Tanzanians, Kenyans and Ethiopians) but are rare or absent in other African populations.

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Haplogroup A frequencies Africa. Study population Freq.

(in %)

[8] Tsumkwe San (Namibia) 66%
[8] Nama (Namibia) 64
[10] Dinka (Sudan) 62
[10] Shilluk (Sudan) 53
[10] Nuba (Sudan) 46
[11] Khoisan 44
[12][13] Ethiopian Jews 41
[12][8] ǃKung/Sekele ~40
[10] Borgu (Sudan) 35
[10] Nuer (Sudan) 33
[10] Fur (Sudan) 31
[8] Maasai (Kenya) 27
[14] Nara (Eritrea) 20
[10] Masalit (Sudan) 19
[15][8] Amhara (Ethiopia)~16
[11] Ethiopians 14
[16] Bantu (Kenya) 14
[8] Mandara (Cameroon) 14
[10] Hausa (Sudan) 13
[12] Khwe (South Africa) 12
[12] Fulbe (Cameroon) 12
[8] Dama (Namibia) 11
[15] Oromo (Ethiopia) 10
[14] Kunama (Eritrea) 10
[8] South Semitic (Ethiopia) 10
[16] Arabs (Egypt) 3

Distribution

In a composite sample of 3551 African men, Haplogroup A had a frequency of 5.4%.[17] The highest frequencies of haplogroup A have been reported among the Khoisan of Southern
Africa, Afroasiatic speakers from Ethiopia, and Nilo-Saharans from Sudan. The distribution of haplogroup A provides evidence of an ancient link between the Khoisan and Northeast African populations.


Africa —Central

Haplogroup A3b2-M13 has been observed in populations of northern Cameroon (2/9 = 22% Tupuri[8], 4/28 = 14% Mandara[8], 2/17 = 12% Fulbe[12]) and eastern DRC (2/9 = 22% Alur[8], 1/18 = 6% Hema[8], 1/47 = 2% Mbuti[8]).

Haplogroup A-M91(xA1a-M31, A2-M6/M14/P3/P4, A3-M32) has been observed in the Bakola people of southern Cameroon (3/33 = 9%).[8]


Africa —Eastern

Haplogroup A3b2-M13 is common among the Southern Sudanese (53%),[10] especially the Dinka Sudanese (61.5%).[18] Haplogroup A3b2-M13 also has been observed in another sample of a South Sudanese population at a frequency of 45%(18/40), including 1/40 A3b2a-M171.[11] Haplogroup A also has been reported in 14.6%(7/48) of an Amhara sample,[15] 10.3%(8/78) of an Oromo sample,[15] 13.6%(12/88) of another sample from Ethiopia,[11] and 41% of a sample of the Beta Israel (Cruciani et al. 2002), and important percentages are also shared by Bantus in Kenya (14%, Luis et al. 2004) and Iraqw in Tanzania (3/43 = 7.0%(Luis et al. 2004) to 1/6 = 17%(Knight et al. 2003)).

Africa —Northern

The subclade A1 has been observed in Moroccan Berbers, while the subclade A3b2 has been observed in approximately 3% of Egyptian males.

Africa —Southern

One study has found haplogroup A in samples of various Khoisan-speaking tribes with frequency ranging from 10% to 70%.[8] Surprisingly, this particular haplogroup was not found in a sample of the Hadzabe from Tanzania, a population traditionally considered an ancient remnant of Khoisans due to the presence of click consonants in their language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_A_%28Y-DNA%29


B1

Haplogroup B1*-M236/M288 has been found in 4%(2/48) of a sample of Bamileke males from southern Cameroon.

B1a

Haplogroup B1a-M146 has been found in 2%(1/49) of a sample of Mossi males from Burkina Faso[6] and in 2%(1/44) of a sample of unspecified ethnic affiliation from Mali.

B2

Haplogroup B2*-M182 has been found in 6%(3/47) of a sample of Mbuti males from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, 6%(2/33) of a sample of Bakola males from southern Cameroon,[2] 6%(1/18) of a sample of Dama males from Namibia,[2] and 3%(1/31) of a sample of Biaka males from Central African Republic.

B2a

Haplogroup B2a*-M150 has been found in 8%(1/12) of a sample of Mbuti males from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Haplogroup B2a-M150(xB2a1a-M152) has been observed in 11%(5/47) of a sample of Mbuti from Democratic Republic of the Congo, 11%(1/9) of a sample of Tupuri from northern Cameroon, 11%(1/9) of a sample of Luo from Kenya, 7%(4/55) of a sample of Dogon from Mali, 6%(1/18) of a sample of Baka from Central African Republic, and 2%(1/42) of a sample of Kikuyu and Kamba from Kenya.

Haplogroup B2a-M150(xB2a1a-M109/M152, B2a2-M108.1) has been found in 3%(1/37) of a sample from Central Africa, 2%(1/44) of a sample from Mali, and 1%(1/88) of a sample from Ethiopia.

Without testing for any downstream mutation, haplogroup B2a-M150 has been found in 33.3%(8/24) of a sample of Ngumba from Cameroon,[1] 20.8%(5/24) of a sample of Eviya from Gabon,[1] 18.2%(4/22) of a sample of Bakola from Cameroon,[1] 14.3%(6/42) of a sample of Eshira from Gabon,[1] 14.0%(6/43) of a sample of Makina from Gabon,[1] 14.0%(6/43) of a sample of Shake from Gabon,[1] 8.6%(5/58) of a sample of Punu from Gabon,[1] 8.3%(5/60) of a sample of Tsogo from Gabon,[1] 7.0%(4/57) of a sample of Nzebi from Gabon,[1] 6.7%(1/15) of a sample of Mbugwe from Tanzania,[4] 4.3%(2/46) of a sample of Duma from Gabon,[1] 4.3%(2/47) of a sample of Obamba from Gabon,[1] 4.2%(2/48) of a sample of Benga from Gabon,[1] 3.8%(2/53) of a sample of Kota from Gabon,[1] 2.8%(1/36) of a sample of Ndumu from Gabon,[1] 2.1%(1/47) of a sample of Galoa from Gabon,[1] 2.0%(1/50) of a sample of Akele from Gabon,[1] 1.7%(1/60) of a sample of Fang from Gabon,[1] 1.5%(1/68) of a sample of Sandawe from Tanzania,[4] 1.4%(1/72) of a sample from Qatar,[11] and 0.64%(1/157) of a sample from Saudi Arabia.

B2a1

Haplogroup B2a1*-M218 has been found in 6%(1/18) of a mixed sample of speakers of various Adamawa languages from northern Cameroon.[6]
[edit] B2a1a

Haplogroup B2a1a (M109, M152, P32, P50) is the most commonly observed subclade of haplogroup B.

In Central Africa, haplogroup B2a1a Y-DNA has been found in 23%(7/31) of Ngumba males from southern Cameroon,[2] 18%(7/39) of Fali males from northern Cameroon,[6] 5%(1/21)[6] to 31%(4/13)[2] of Uldeme males from northern Cameroon, 10%(3/29) of Ewondo males from southern Cameroon,[6] 7%(1/15) of a mixed sample of speakers of various Chadic languages from northern Cameroon,[6] 6%(1/18) of a mixed sample of speakers of various Adamawa languages from northern Cameroon,[6] 6%(2/33) of Bakola males from southern Cameroon,[2] 4%(1/28) of Mandara males from northern Cameroon,[2] and 3%(1/31)[2] to 5%(1/20)[6] of Biaka males from Central African Republic.

In East Africa, haplogroup B2a1a Y-DNA has been found in 11%(1/9) of a small sample of Iraqw males from Tanzania,[2] 11%(1/9) of a small sample of Luo males from Kenya,[2] 8%(2/26) of Massai males from Kenya,[2] and 4.5%(4/88) of a sample of Ethiopians.

In Southern Africa, haplogroup B2a1a Y-DNA has been found in 18%(5/28) of Sotho-Tswana males from South Africa,[2] 14%(4/29) of Zulu males from South Africa,[2] 13%(7/53) of an ethnically mixed sample of non-Khoisan Southern Africans,[7] 10%(5/49) of Shona males from Zimbabwe,[2] and 5%(4/80) of Xhosa males from South Africa.

In North Africa, haplogroup B2a1a Y-DNA has been found in 12.5%(5/40) of Sudanese[7] and 2%(2/92) of Egyptians.

In Eurasia, haplogroup B2a1a Y-DNA has been found in 3%(3/117) of a sample of Iranians from southern Iran[13] and 2%(2/88) of a sample from Pakistan and India.

B2a2

Haplogroup B2a2*(M108.1) has been found in 3%(3/88) of a sample from Ethiopia.[7]

B2a2a

Haplogroup B2a2a (M43, P111) has been found in 7%(3/44) of a sample from Mali.[7]

B2b

Haplogroup B2b (M112, M192, 50f2(P)) has been found mainly among pygmy populations in Central Africa, Juu (Northern Khoisan) populations in Southern Africa, and the Hadzabe in East Africa. It also has been found occasionally in samples of groups who neighbor the aforementioned populations.

Specifically, haplogroup B2b has been observed in 67%(12/18) of a sample of Baka from Central African Republic,[2] 52%(12/23) or 51%(29/57) of samples of Hadzabe from Tanzania,[3][4] 48%(15/31) of a sample of Biaka from Central African Republic,[2] 43%(20/47) of a sample of Mbuti from the Democratic Republic of the Congo,[2] 31%(9/29) of a sample of Tsumkwe San from Namibia,[2] 28%(11/39) of a sample of the Northern Khoisan-speaking Ju|’hoansi and Sekele peoples,[7][3] 25%(6/24) of a sample of Burunge from Tanzania,[4] 14%(13/94) of a sample of Tutsi from Rwanda,[9] 13%(9/68) of a sample of Sandawe from Tanzania,[4] 9%(3/32) of a sample of !Kung/Sekele from Namibia,[2] 5%(1/20) of a sample of Turu from Tanzania,[4] 5%(2/43) of a sample of Wairak from Tanzania,[9] 3%(1/29) of a sample of Zulu from South Africa,[2] 3%(1/33) of a sample of Bakola from southern Cameroon,[2] 3%(1/35) of a sample of Datog from Tanzania,[4] 3%(1/35) of a sample of Malagasy,[10] 1.4%(1/69) of a sample of Hutu from Rwanda,[9] 1.4%(1/72) of a sample from Qatar,[11] and 1.3%(2/157) of a sample from Saudi Arabia.

B2b1

Haplogroup B2b1 (P6) has been found in Khoisan populations of Namibia, including 24%(7/29) of a sample of Tsumkwe San and 3%(1/32) of a sample of !Kung/Sekele.

B2b2

Haplogroup B2b2 (M115, M169) has been found in 8%(1/12) of a sample of Mbuti from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

B2b3

Haplogroup B2b3*(M30, M129) has been found in 22%(2/9) of a mixed sample of speakers of Central Sudanic and Saharan languages from northern Cameroon and in 5%(1/20) of a sample of Biaka from Central African Republic.

B2b3a

Haplogroup B2b3a (M108.2) has been found in 25%(1/4) of a very small sample of Lissongo from Central African Republic.[6]

B2b4

Haplogroup B2b4 (P7) has been observed most frequently in samples of some populations of pygmies from Central Africa: 67%(12/18) Baka from Central African Republic,[2] 45%(14/31) Biaka from Central African Republic,[2] 21%(10/47) Mbuti from Democratic Republic of the Congo.[2] This haplogroup also has been found in an Iraqw (South Cushitic) individual from Tanzania (1/9 = 11%) and in some samples of Khoisan from Namibia (2/32 = 6%!Kung/Sekele, 2/29 = 7% Tsumkwe San).

B2b4b

Haplogroup B2b4b (MSY2.1, M211) has been found in 20%(4/20) of a sample of Biaka from Central African Republic.

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