posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
"in historic times, only Berber children wore side-locks ; with grown-up men, it indicated either royalty, or the exercise of high priestly functions, identified with the rites of the Goddess Neith. The long, lock-like beard, is very similar to the beard of Osiris, which the pharaohs also adopted as a sign of royalty. The Libyan pointed-beard and the side-lock may shed more light on the origin of the present-day Jewish side-lock, which they could have picked up in Egypt among other things." (www.temehu.com/)



"Dr Bates notes that side-locks are still worn among the Amazigh Berbers of Morocco"

According to wikipedia, this was the young ramsses II:

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Posts: 747 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
"in historic times, only Berber children wore side-locks ; with grown-up men, it indicated either royalty, or the exercise of high priestly functions, identified with the rites of the Goddess Neith. The long, lock-like beard, is very similar to the beard of Osiris, which the pharaohs also adopted as a sign of royalty. The Libyan pointed-beard and the side-lock may shed more light on the origin of the present-day Jewish side-lock, which they could have picked up in Egypt among other things." (www.temehu.com/)



"Dr Bates notes that side-locks are still worn among the Amazigh Berbers of Morocco"

According to wikipedia, this was the young ramsses II:

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Posts: 163 | From: United States | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by homeylu:
If it's in fact his actual hair and not a wig the Egyptians were famous for, then the hair would have to be very thick, no matter what texture for it to be so wide.

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quote:

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Plus there is no evidence in any Ancient Roman or Greek art that depict any EUROPEAN MEN with their hair braided.

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Now retract your bullsh1t.
Source: link

quote:

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This is an age-old African custom still practiced to this day in both men and women of African descent.

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Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Cowering Asshole-holic:



Now retract your bullsh1t.
Source: link

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^ ROTFLMAO


Yeah, great job proving our point that the hairstyle is AFRICAN as that bust is of a Ptolemaic prince of EGYPT as that link you provided clearly explained! Now how about showing us an actual Greek or other European born and raised in an actual European country having such a hairstyle!! LMAO

Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
Source: link

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Thanks for this jackass, I was looking for more examples of whites appropriating black culture.

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

quote:

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Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
Source: link

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Thanks for this jackass, I was looking for more examples of whites appropriating black culture.

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Indeed, what an idiot the Ass-hole is! I didn't even need to click on the link to know that the bust is of a Ptolemy of Egypt!

This reminds me how the actress Bo Derek made cornrow with beaded braids popular among "mainstream" (white) society to the point that in the 70s and early 80s the style was actually named after her!




^ This despite her admitting to the public time and again that it was a BLACK hairstyle given to her by her AFROCENTRIC hairdresser! Not surprisingly many white women and girls who wanted hair like that had to go to the black hairdressers. LOL

Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Kalonji:

Djehuty,

Also note that:

Lucian (Greek writer, 125 B.C.)

Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): "This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin . . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman."

Timolaus: "But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus, All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place."
(Lucian, Navigations, paras 2-3)

What a perfectly fitting quote to silence the rat..

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Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

The braided side-lock of youth however was NOT a custom associated with any Europeans or Asians that I am aware of, but is strictly AFRICAN, which brings me to this...

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That's right. Youth side-lock is strictly an African custom, and the fact that the AE shared this custom, is significant. The issue of hair texture is a distraction, which in any case, is merely emphasized to elicit the point that it is braided.

more examples from previous discussions...






Mazigh's post of an adult Tamahou figure with a long slender side-lock, like that on the Jewish kid, is NOT a youth side-lock. In fact, it doesn't even demonstrate the purpose Mazigh may have the intentions for posting it -- to demonstrate a "Berber" connection with AE, since, again like the Jewish kid, the Tamahou were supposed to have side-lock on both sides of their head, running down the temple region. The youth side-lock is only directed to one side of the head, as in the AE example and the Himba boy.

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by StTigray:
And now The Berbers are out to Claim Egyptian History...........Damn....Ok who is not trying to tie their history to Egypt?...Wow [/QB]

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You're strange! Where did I claim the Egyptian civilisation? buhh... you always claim it is an african civilisation. To make it only "black"! And how about saying that the first is typic "Asian"?

Don't tell me so...., and discuss what the subject of this topic.
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The Libyco-Berber sidelock is thought to be related to the Egypto-Libyan Goddess Neith and Horus.

"It is worth remark- ing that the Libyan chiefs wear a long side-lock like the Horus-lock of Egyptian children and princes. "

That answers a question posed in this forum:
"Why is he wearing that Earring? "
(The original answer was: "Why is this defeated Libyan from Abu Simbel near Aswan wearing an Ankh for an ear ring? Why does he have the Jewish Payot or sidelock.)



"in historic times, only Berber children wore side-locks ; with grown-up men, it indicated either royalty, or the exercise of high priestly functions, identified with the rites of the Goddess Neith."

"According to several historical records, the Libyan birthplace of the Goddess Neith, whom the Greeks adopted as Athena, as has been pointed out by Plutarch, Diodorus, Herodotus and (indirectly) Plato, was also the traditional homeland of the warrior women known as the Libyan Amazons, in the western parts of Libya, particularly around the legendary Lake Tritonis; where the Libyan Poseidon's son Theseus married the queen of the Amazons. The world of the Amazons was ruled by women warrior, in which they followed a manner of life unlike that which prevailed among other races of the time."
(tamahou.com)

Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by ausar:

homeylu, I cannot think of Greco-Roman depictions of braids but braiding is not just exclusively African or for individuals with tightly curled hair. I doubt that collectively the ancient Egyptians had bone straight hair. For instance, the said braids appear to curl at the end which is typically not an indication of bone straight hair.

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quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

If it's in fact his actual hair and not a wig the Egyptians were famous for, then the hair would have to be very thick, no matter what texture for it to be so wide. Plus there is no evidence in any Ancient Roman or Greek art that depict any EUROPEAN MEN with their hair braided. This is an age-old African custom still practiced to this day in both men and women of African descent.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Homeylu is wrong to say that Europeans never braided their hair,

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
since some groups did, however I should point out that both Greeks and Romans considered braided hair among men to be a trait associated with "barbarians" from further north.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
Now retract your bullsh1t.
Source: link

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kalonji:
Djehuty,

Also note that:

Lucian (Greek writer, 125 B.C.)

Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): "This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin . . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman."

Timolaus: "But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus, All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place."
(Lucian, Navigations, paras 2-3)

What a perfectly fitting quote to silence the rat..

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Posts: 747 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
"One thing more also I can add concerning this region, namely, that, so far as our knowledge reaches, four nations, and no more, inhabit it; and two of these nations are indigenous, while two are not. The two indigenous are the Berbers and Ethiopians, who dwell respectively in the north and the south of Libya. The Phoenicians and the Greek are in-comers."

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This is an incorrect translation. Did you translate it yourself?

Edit: OK, i see you got it from "North of Afica.com". But noone others would translate it as "Berbers versus Ethipgians". Since, those Etheopians were possibly also Berbers.

This is worth a sperate topic.

Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by homeylu:
I like your style TruthAndRights

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Thank you. Respect.

htp

Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by The Explorer:

That's right. Youth side-lock is strictly an African custom, and the fact that the AE shared this custom, is significant. The issue of hair texture is a distraction, which in any case, is merely emphasized to elicit the point that it is braided.

more examples from previous discussions...






Mazigh's post of an adult Tamahou figure with a long slender side-lock, like that on the Jewish kid, is NOT a youth side-lock. In fact, it doesn't even demonstrate the purpose Mazigh may have the intentions for posting it -- to demonstrate a "Berber" connection with AE, since, again like the Jewish kid, the Tamahou were supposed to have side-lock on both sides of their head, running down the temple region. The youth side-lock is only directed to one side of the head, as in the AE example and the Himba boy.

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Correct. Which is the exact reason why the Asshole-holic is dumbfounded and stricken silent. Anyone else want to dispute the African identity and affinity of this Egyptian hairstyle? Anyone else? I don't think so.

Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by homeylu:

Where is the quote where "homeylu" stated this (no European men had braided hair)? In the future it would help if your read my actual statement, and NOT Ausur or anyone else's 'distorted' version. Thanks.

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quote:

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Who were those groups, you speak of, we're talking about antiquities, not Bo Derek? The Romans would often describe barbarians with LONG hair, and considered it uncouth, which is why they required their men to shave their hair and beards, and not let it grow out like the 'savages'. But you would have to enlighten me about these "Northern barbarians with braids " thru art or ancient text, I'm waiting

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Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:

Where is the quote where "homeylu" stated this (no European men had braided hair)? In the future it would help if your read my actual statement, and NOT Ausur or anyone else's 'distorted' version. Thanks.

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You said it here:

"Plus there is no evidence in any Ancient Roman or Greek art that depict any EUROPEAN MEN with their hair braided."

This is false, since I have seen a few examples of Roman art portraying Celtic men with braided hair.

No need to get smart. It is a known fact that more northerly European men such as Celts, Germanics, and even Balts and Slavs braided their hair. Of course we are talking about the simple European braids and not some shaven head lock of youth seen in Africa or more elaborate microbraids etc. This is why the Greeks and Romans associated braided hair among men to be a 'barbaric' trait.

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Posts: 747 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by The Explorer:

Mazigh's post of an adult Tamahou figure with a long slender side-lock, like that on the Jewish kid, is NOT a youth side-lock. In fact, it doesn't even demonstrate the purpose Mazigh may have the intentions for posting it -- to demonstrate a "Berber" connection with AE, since, again like the Jewish kid, the Tamahou were supposed to have side-lock on both sides of their head, running down the temple region. The youth side-lock is only directed to one side of the head, as in the AE example and the Himba boy. [/QB]

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

The side lock of Berber speaking people is simply part of an African tradition as Berber languages are African in the first place. However, trying to put the origin of this custom in the hands of "Berbers" and specifically "white berbers" is the problem. The custom is ancient across Africa and has been there since before there was a Berber language to begin with.

The Goddess Tanit is only attested to the 5th century BC and therefore cannot be postulated as the origin of the ancient Egyptian goddess neith. And it is from this time that you get the association with Berbers due to the written evidence and cultural evidence found in and around carthage. However, again, the evidence of "Berber" languages and customs do not go back to 3000 BC when Neith and many other Egyptian deities came to be. Evidence for Berber languages and customs only go back, based on actual linguistic and cultural evidence to about the time of Phoenicia.

The problem here is that some people have tried to link the group labeled as Berbers since the Phoenician period, with ancient peoples in North Africa about whom much is not known. In fact some people, as in the article on Wikipedia, try to link the term "Berber" with ancient North Africans from 200,000 years ago. The problem is that Berber is a language not a people and Berber languages are only about 6-8,000 years old at best and originated in North East Africa. There is no actual linguistic evidence that Berber languages existed in North Africa 5,000 years ago. But because some people have tried to use the word "Berber" as a synonym for North Africans, it has been used as a way to tie any and all historic traditions and customs stretching back to the time of ancient Egypt and beyond to "Berbers", which is totally nonsense.

For example, the dress of the Libyans and Temehu are still found among Africans in Niger, like the Peul or Woodabe. It is something that possibly was much more widespread among African cultures in the region than just simply "Libyans". In fact, similar dress can be seen among African peoples in ancient Minoan Frescoes.

Again, the problem is how some people want to tie African customs and traditions to foreigners. For example, trying to make Berber a foreign "not black African" identifier and then using that to claim all sorts of traditions and customs as somehow originating among "not black Africans".

In fact the truth is more likely the opposite. In the 21st Dynasty of Egypt sometimes called the "Libyan" Dynasty, there were depictions of priestesses and goddesses who were associated with Libyans but dressed in Egyptian style. Apparently many of the later images of the goddess Tanit found in the Mediterranean in places like Ibiza and Phoenicia have similar forms.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/menesje/498705569/in/set-72157600220296717/
21st Dynasty Queen/Priestess Karomama

In fact, this is strongly supported by the fact that ancient Phoenicians also imported other deities from Egypt including Bes. This deity is thought by some to be the name of the ancient town settled by the Phoenicians which became the derivation of the word Ibiza.

quote:

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Bes statuette found in Carthage, now in the Bardo Museum. Bes was a god recognizable as an Egyptian import, who kept demons away during childbirth. Images of Bes are found throughout Phoenician and Carthaginian territories. The Carthaginians dedicated a new town in Spain to Bes: Carthaginian Ebysos is now Spanish Ibiza.

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From: http://www.mmdtkw.org/CNAf002PhoeniciansCarthaginians.html

Therefore, you can look at many of the attributes of Tanit as simply a reflection of the influence of Egyptian culture on later cultures in Northern Africa.

http://www.matrifocus.com/LAM09/spotlight.htm


Note: I have a 24 inch wide screen monitor so I may not realize that images that are normal to me are bad for others.

Anyway, more examples of the influence of Africans on Europe from the Carthagenian period, which would include customs and religious influence:





All from Ibiza.

http://www.cvaonline.org/gems/scarab/scarab37.htm

Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Doug M:
[QB] The side lock of Berber speaking people is simply part of an African tradition as Berber languages are African in the first place. However, trying to put the origin of this custom in the hands of "Berbers" and specifically "white berbers" is the problem. The custom is ancient across Africa and has been there since before there was a Berber language to begin with.

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quote:

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The Goddess Tanit is only attested to the 5th century BC and therefore cannot be postulated as the origin of the ancient Egyptian goddess neith. And it is from this time that you get the association with Berbers due to the written evidence and cultural evidence found in and around carthage.

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quote:

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However, again, the evidence of "Berber" languages and customs do not go back to 3000 BC when Neith and many other Egyptian deities came to be. Evidence for Berber languages and customs only go back, based on actual linguistic and cultural evidence to about the time of Phoenicia.

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quote:

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The problem here is that some people have tried to link the group labeled as Berbers since the Phoenician period, with ancient peoples in North Africa about whom much is not known.

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quote:

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The problem is that Berber is a language not a people and Berber languages are only about 6-8,000 years old at best and originated in North East Africa. There is no actual linguistic evidence that Berber languages existed in North Africa 5,000 years ago.

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quote:

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But because some people have tried to use the word "Berber" as a synonym for North Africans, it has been used as a way to tie any and all historic traditions and customs stretching back to the time of ancient Egypt and beyond to "Berbers", which is totally nonsense.

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quote:

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For example, the dress of the Libyans and Temehu are still found among Africans in Niger, like the Peul or Woodabe. It is something that possibly was much more widespread among African cultures in the region than just simply "Libyans".

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quote:

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Again, the problem is how some people want to tie African customs and traditions to foreigners. For example, trying to make Berber a foreign "not black African" identifier and then using that to claim all sorts of traditions and customs as somehow originating among "not black Africans".

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

I don't what you do mean by "a Berber connection with AE", since that is nod needed.

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But i would like to see a source of the suppose that "the Tamahou were supposed to have side-lock on both sides of their head, running down the temple region."

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Not that the burden is on me, but if you look at the images you'll notice that two-dimensional views of the youth side-lock of figures on Egyptian wall murals usually have the lock obscuring the ear where the lock is supposed to descend. It is done that way, because the artists want to project that feel of the lock simply flung sideways, and not necessarily running closely to the side of the face [for examples, see the images I already provided above] like a slender strand of hair, along the temple region and thereof, i.e. ahead of the ear, as that seen in the Jewish boy; note that the lock of the Jewish boy is not so much as braided as it is twirling hair. The AE examples are also shown that way, because the youth side-lock are supposed to convey one thick lump of braided hair that is flung to one side of the head, and not both sides. This hints to me that the adult Tamahou figures have locks that run on both sides of the face, as opposed to the one-sided orientation of the *youth* side-lock.

To demonstrate this visually, take an exceptional case, wherein an *adult* or adult-looking figure sports a youth side-lock -- the moon god Khonsu:



Note the *youth* side-lock on the moon god Khonsu (figure on the right), obscuring the ear.

Here is another view of Khonsu:



Here, the ear is not hidden, but note the thick lump of braided hair tucked behind the ear; that's right -- the difference between the top image of the moon god and this one, is that in the former the braided side-lock is simply flung to the side, while in the latter, not only is it flung to the side, but the moon god's ear pinna (cartilage muscle) is partly holding the braided lock to the back of the ear. This is even more apparent in the following three-dimensional representations of the moon god:





Again, note that the side-lock only runs down to one side of the head, in each case. You have to understand though, courtesy of touregypt.net, that Khonsu's youth side-lock presents a rare case because of his identification as "divine child of Amun and Mut". The divine part explains the fake goatee in his personification.


All that put aside, the burden really lies on you, to show that the Tamahou side-lock(s) are suggestive of a single *youth* side-lock brought to one side of the head, as opposed to side-locks on either side of head.

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
The side lock of Berber speaking people is simply part of an African tradition as Berber languages are African in the first place. However, trying to put the origin of this custom in the hands of "Berbers" and specifically "white berbers" is the problem. The custom is ancient across Africa and has been there since before there was a Berber language to begin with.

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One thing spread in this forum, is that i would be a lover of white Berbers. That is not so. The image is not drawn by me.

I don't also claim that this custom is only Berber. But that custom is typical for the Berbers in Ancient Egypt.
"The side-lock was a fashion peculiar to the Libyans and ."

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quote:

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quote:

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The Goddess Tanit is only attested to the 5th century BC and therefore cannot be postulated as the origin of the ancient Egyptian goddess neith. And it is from this time that you get the association with Berbers due to the written evidence and cultural evidence found in and around carthage.

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If you think that the attestation is only valable source, then you have also to forget those statement relating Egypt with people without writing systems.

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quote:

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quote:

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However, again, the evidence of "Berber" languages and customs do not go back to 3000 BC when Neith and many other Egyptian deities came to be. Evidence for Berber languages and customs only go back, based on actual linguistic and cultural evidence to about the time of Phoenicia.

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You're not the only one to say this. This it is generally nonsenses and contradicting. All the main afro-asiatic branches are situated in higher dates, excepts the Berber languages, like if it existed after them all. If so, it has to be a dialect of one of those branches. The judgements are not useful: the methode is more covincing.

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The problem here is that some people have tried to link the group labeled as Berbers since the Phoenician period, with ancient peoples in North Africa about whom much is not known.

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The people labelled as "Berbers" goes back only the Arab period. You want claim that they fall down from the sky in that period.

quote:

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The problem is that Berber is a language not a people and Berber languages are only about 6-8,000 years old at best and originated in North East Africa. There is no actual linguistic evidence that Berber languages existed in North Africa 5,000 years ago.

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From 3000 to 6--8000 to 5000 ? You're not serious. Are you?

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quote:

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But because some people have tried to use the word "Berber" as a synonym for North Africans, it has been used as a way to tie any and all historic traditions and customs stretching back to the time of ancient Egypt and beyond to "Berbers", which is totally nonsense.

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Not to all North Africa, but only its indegenous people excepts: the Nubians and Egyptians. And why would it be "nonsense"?

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quote:

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For example, the dress of the Libyans and Temehu are still found among Africans in Niger, like the Peul or Woodabe. It is something that possibly was much more widespread among African cultures in the region than just simply "Libyans".

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Niger also populated by Berbers, and the peul may have been descended from the Berbers. You prefer them, because they are black?

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quote:

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quote:

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Again, the problem is how some people want to tie African customs and traditions to foreigners. For example, trying to make Berber a foreign "not black African" identifier and then using that to claim all sorts of traditions and customs as somehow originating among "not black Africans".

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It is you and other black minded (and some eurocentrics) that try to make the Berbers as foreigners because they are not black.

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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In mythology the hair of the gods is a symbol of a symbol of rays of lights (see gilgamas) and the infant Horus in Egypt wears a single side lock, as did the Libyans.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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The ancient peoples of Northern Africa are but one example of its usage in history but it is not the origin of the custom and it is not unique or peculiar to those people. The problem is that we don't have imag...

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The people depicted with such locks in Egypt were not called Berbers.

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Neither do the Berbers call themselves "Berbers" The Egyptians called them "Mashwesh" (Mazyces=> Mazigh ) and Libu (Luwata). So no need to use the name Berber.

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And whether they were depicted with it or not does not change the facts that the Egyptians also used it from the Old Kingdom.

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Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
@The explorer,
No, it seems that they had a sigle side lock.

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I didn't say it has to do with youth side lock

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quote:

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, and it has not to be in the case of Khonsu or Horus:

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

quote:

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In mythology the hair of the gods is a symbol of a symbol of rays of lights (see gilgamas) and the infant Horus in Egypt wears a single side lock, as did the Libyans.

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I even add that the Egyptian deities wore two feathers, and so did the Libyans.

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I said i don't have to connect the Berbers with the Egyptians, since it generally is not needed. The Berbers are connected to the Egyptians and vice versa. If i do, it is then to shed more light on this connctions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

quote:

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And whether they were depicted with it or not does not change the facts that the Egyptians also used it from the Old Kingdom.

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maybe, you're adressing this to "the explorer". If not, then i do.

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Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Mazigh:

1- No idea. You?

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2- The Egyptians are said to distinguish the Libyans from themselves for ideological reasons.

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The side lock is depicted on both sides. If depends on the image.

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They had to depict that difference:

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The egyptians are not always accurate:
You see here that the clothes are identic in the Libyan and hettite. The beard is also identic in Libyan and syrian:

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- Herodotus is not always accurate, but he is a good reference (father of history?).

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-The maxyans being descendants of Troye. He didn't believe him "claim", but said they believe. (It is possible that some Libyans dwelled between Greece and Libya).

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Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I am unable to find any pictures off the net, but I have seen them in books. Here are also some brief references to traditional European hairstyles.

Irish Styles

Men wore long braided hair and skirts with pleats. The skirts were dyed yellow from saffron. Irish men also wore wool trousers. In the 15th century, King Henry VIII passed laws forbidding traditional Celtic clothing. From that point on, Irish people were forced to wear English clothing.

Celtic Art

People - men and women are both depicted in Celtic art, with various hairstyles and clothing. Usually their hair and limbs are knotted up much like the knotwork interlace designs. People are drawn either in a full front manner or in perfect profile, never in partial profile.

Handcrafted Celtic, Viking & Scandinavian Hair Barrettes

...Most People carried their own Comb. Especially Men liked to wear their Combs as a decorative item hanging on the Belt. With the help of these Combs, Hair was intricately styled and braided. Men also combed and braided their Beards.

I don't know what else to say. Anyone knowledgeable about European culture knows that braided hair was not uncommon among men from northern European cultures. Though of course non of this has any bearing on the side-lock of youth for children in Africa.

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Posts: 747 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
@Doug M,
I won't discuss the language of the Berbers (It would be best if we open a seperate topic to prove that the berber language is the least old, until then, that argument is not taken into consideration).

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The ancient peoples of Northern Africa are but one example of its usage in history but it is not the origin of the custom and it is not unique or peculiar to those people. The problem is that we don't have imag...

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You can then use this logic for Tanit. However, it was not meant that we discuss Tanit, but Neith. This Neith was already an influencial goddess at the time of Herodotus. Athena is said to be the Berber goddess Neith (Tanit). The Egyptians called it "Neith Tehenu" (Libyan Neith). The side lock and the tattoe's may be realted to this goddess. In this topic, there is also a libyan wearing the Ankh as earring.

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The people depicted with such locks in Egypt were not called Berbers.

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Neither do the Berbers call themselves "Berbers" The Egyptians called them "Mashwesh" (Mazyces=> Mazigh ) and Libu (Luwata). So no need to use the name Berber.

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And whether they were depicted with it or not does not change the facts that the Egyptians also used it from the Old Kingdom.

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maybe, you're adressing this to "the explorer". If not, then i do.

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mazigh:
"Connus depuis l’antiquité pharaonique sous les noms de Lebu, Tehenu, Temehu, Meshwesh, les Berbères subsistent dans un immense territoire qui commence à l’ouest de l’Égypte. Actuellement des populations parlant le berbère habitent dans une douzaine de pays africains, de la Méditerranée au sud du Niger, de l’Atlantique au voisinage du Nil...."
http://www.mondeberbere.com/histoire/camps/origines.htm

(Gabriel Camps father of the Northwest African history?)


This means that we have to determine the basics, and thereafter, we can go further... reducing those works and acting like nothing it known by claiming, that this or that not Berber is, is not helping a constructed knowledge.

As Neith is concerned, Flinders Petrie stated:
"Neit was a goddess of the Libyan people ; but her worship was firmly implanted
by them in Egypt. " ( Religion of Ancient Egypt‎ -
W. M. Flinders Petrie )

This following link is related from far or close to "the explorer", right?
http://exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2010/01/so-called-tehenu-palette.html

However, the article didn't mention the Berbers, it mentioned all the time the "Libyan". The author is not ignoring the Berber rlation, since in the word-tags, we find this:

"Labels: Amazigh, Ancient Egypt, Kemet, Kushite, Nile Valley, Tamasheq, Tamazight"
(Amazigh is of course Berber).

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Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged |