quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: American Association of Physical Anthropologists Annual Meeting:
A new look at an old problem: Assessing population structure in Mesolithic – C-Group Nubians using population genetics statistics for cranial discrete traits.
The plot from PCO depicts the two C-Groups clustering with the preceding Mesolithic and A-Group. The biological data here and elsewhere agree with the archaeological and mortuary evidence that there was population continuity (despite high levels of extraregional gene flow), during this time. Moreover, the returning population after the hiatus is biologically and culturally Nubian.
Evergreen Writes: Now we have continuity between Mesolithic and C-Group Nubians. We see in the latest dental analysis from Joel D. Irish that C-Group Nubians and Ancient Egyptian samples were proximate. This implies change, yet continuity between mesolithic Nubians and Ancient Egyptians.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: American Association of Physical Anthropologists Annual Meeting:
A new look at an old problem: Assessing population structure in Mesolithic – C-Group Nubians using population genetics statistics for cranial discrete traits.
The plot from PCO depicts the two C-Groups clustering with the preceding Mesolithic and A-Group. The biological data here and elsewhere agree with the archaeological and mortuary evidence that there was population continuity (despite high levels of extraregional gene flow), during this time. Moreover, the returning population after the hiatus is biologically and culturally Nubian.
Evergreen Writes: Now we have continuity between Mesolithic and C-Group Nubians. We see in the latest dental analysis from Joel D. Irish that C-Group Nubians and Ancient Egyptian samples were proximate. This implies change, yet continuity between mesolithic Nubians and Ancient Egyptians.
Evergreen Writes: Keep in mind that mesolithic Nubians cluster with recent west Africans in terms of dental, cranial and now skeletal analysis.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Evergreen: [qb] American Association of Physical Anthropologists Annual Meeting:
Body proportions of the Jebel Sahaba sample.
Importantly, these results corroborate those of Irish (2000), who, using non-metric dental and osseous oral traits, found that Jebel Sahaba was most similar to recent Sub-Saharan Africans, and morphologically distinct from their contemporaries in other parts of North Africa.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: American Association of Physical Anthropologists Annual Meeting:
A new look at an old problem: Assessing population structure in Mesolithic – C-Group Nubians using population genetics statistics for cranial discrete traits.
The plot from PCO depicts the two C-Groups clustering with the preceding Mesolithic and A-Group. The biological data here and elsewhere agree with the archaeological and mortuary evidence that there was population continuity (despite high levels of extraregional gene flow), during this time. Moreover, the returning population after the hiatus is biologically and culturally Nubian.
Evergreen Writes: Now we have continuity between Mesolithic and C-Group Nubians. We see in the latest dental analysis from Joel D. Irish that C-Group Nubians and Ancient Egyptian samples were proximate. This implies change, yet continuity between mesolithic Nubians and Ancient Egyptians.
I do have friendly email contact with Goode et al so I will query about the source of this extra-regional geneflow.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
1st Truth, was you referring to that study about the limb proportions of the Natufians?
2nd What Natufians are we talking about here? The African componant in the Natufians was just one phase of the general Natufian history was it not?
Larry Angel (1972) noted: one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.
If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element.
Africans settled in Eurasia earlier than they did in europe, so theoretically speaking, they probably moved away from their African derived body plan earlier than Europeans. Perhaps this is why they found:
quote: indicate that the body shape of the Jebel Sahaba hominins is closest to that of recent Sub-Saharan Africans, and different from that of either the Natufians or the northwest African “Iberomaurusian” samples.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Help me out here guys. Stop responding to the BS threads from Hammer and Recovered,(These guys are irrelevant, their time have come and GONE). Here is something to sink your teeth into.
Africans in the North East of Brazil. For those who don’t know geography. Northeast Brazil is closest point of the Americas to . . . . West Africa. Even closer than Asia. It seems more logical to conclude that these Africans travelled across the Atlantic rather than Asia, Straits, North America, Central America to NorthEast South America. That migration would of taken 10-15kya. Looks like the Australians did island hopping to the tip of South America then up the coast. But what path did the Africans take?
They haven't found any ships so. . . they assume Asia.
Am I missing something? Is Clyde right?
1. Six skeletal remains from Serra da Capivara, Northeastern Brazil.
2. assessed under a global comparative perspective
3. The specimens are dated to either the Early or the Late Holocene.
4. resolved in two very distinct and distant groups in the morph-space
5. one group exhibited a clear association with Australo-Melanesians and Africans,
6. another exhibited a clear association with nowadays Asians and Native Americans
Conclusion: These results are congruent with the idea that The Americas were
successively settled by two different populations, but both coming from Asia.
Are they grouping Australians and Africans as one? They are not sure.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
^ You do know that Brazille was populated by 50.000bc right?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
No. . . . I did not know the exact time. But my point is if they were Africans, how did they get there and what path?
BTW- we are talking pre-history, more specifically Helocene(10kya?). NOT 50kya . . .for the newbies.
Are we making the assumption that West Africans could NOT possibly make the trip across the ocean. Even given the geographic proximity of West Africa to North East Brazil.
So 10kya were there Africans, Australians and Asians living in North East Brazil????
Is that what the paper is telling us?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
If black people were present by 50.000bc, I think one needs to look for their descendants when assessing the origins of holocene remains, before looking to other black people whether they are located in Africa or Melanesia, unless new evidence surfaces to suggest otherwise.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Tell me if I go this right. 50kya-10kya (40ky) they were Black people (Africans).
40ky there remained virtually UNCHANGED then what happened. . . . . .?
And why can't they be Africans. . . .? because they don't know how to sail?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Then at the very maximum they by that time resembled (genetically) the comtemporary African population they sprouted from. It still doesn't allow you to make a case for relatedness to present day black Africans anymore than to other OOA migrated present day peoples, in particular Asiatic black people who they would have seperated from by 50.000bc.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
You bring up an telling point. Genetic testing should conclude if these are modern West Africans ie 3-5kya or ancient Australians ie black people pre-Helocene.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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The Ishango site (Democratic Republic of Congo) was excavated during two different ampaigns, in the fifties by a Belgian team directed by the geologist J. De Heinzelin,
1. Together with a strong dimorphism, these new data question the use of recent populations as reference for modern human diversity.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
E. SUSANNE DALY1, STEPHEN OUSLEY1, and RICHARD JANTZ2. 1Department of Applied
Forensic Sciences, Mercyhurst
College, 2Department of
Anthropology, University of
Tennessee.
The past few years have seen a rise in the use of models for understanding the relationships of within-population variation to geographic distance. Recent genetic studies demonstrate a decrease in genetic differentiation with an increase in geographic distance to sub-Saharan Africa. The greatest intra-regional genetic diversity has been seen in Subsaharan Africans and lower in more distant regions. Analyses of craniometric and dental traits have provided similar results.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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