Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Steve Bird Archaeologists have discovered that wealthy black Africans lived in Roman Britain in one of the country’s earliest examples of multiculturalism.
Scientific research techniques have established that a lavish grave containing a woman’s skeleton, an ivory bangle, perfume bottle, mirror and jewellery, belonged to a North African member of York’s high society in the 4th century.
Scientific analysis of isotopes from the teeth revealed that water she drank during her childhood had contained minerals likely to have been found in North Africa. Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Her sarcophagus, which was made of stone, a sign of immense wealth in Roman Britain, was discovered in 1901 in Bootham, York. The city was then a legionary fortress and civilian settlement called Eboracum, founded by the Romans in AD71.
Her well-preserved remains showed that she was 1.5m (5ft 1in) and aged between 18 and 23. There were no signs of a violent death, and muscle markings showed that she had not lived a strenuous life, suggesting that she was affluent. Among the goods found in her grave was a bone with the inscription “Sor ave vivas in Deo” (Hail, sister, may you live in God), suggesting that she may also have been a Christian.
A bracelet of jet, probably from Whitby, North Yorkshire, showed that she had access to local trade networks. Researchers from the University of Reading’s department of archaeology believe that the ivory bangle, an artefact rarely found in Roman Britain, may have been kept by the woman as a memento of home.
Hella Eckardt, who carried out the study, said: “Multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her, contradicts assumptions about the make-up of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves.”
She said that “Ivory Bangle Lady” was very wealthy — “absolutely from the top end of York society”.
“The link between slavery and Africans is an early modern one. In the Roman world this simply was not the case. Slaves in Roman times could come from any area.”
She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children.
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now.
“This skull is particularly interesting, because the stone sarcophagus she was buried in, and the richness of the grave goods, means she was a very wealthy woman.”
The research, A Lady of York; migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain, is published in the March edition of the journal Antiquity. The “Ivory Bangle Lady” will be the centrepiece of an exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in August entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire.
Posted by Narmer Menes (Member # 16122) on :
I was JUST about to post this.... Love this find... I love the way physical anthropology is showing up Eurocentrism for the joke that it is...
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: From The Times February 27, 2010
Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Steve Bird Archaeologists have discovered that wealthy black Africans lived in Roman Britain in one of the country’s earliest examples of multiculturalism.
Scientific research techniques have established that a lavish grave containing a woman’s skeleton, an ivory bangle, perfume bottle, mirror and jewellery, belonged to a North African member of York’s high society in the 4th century.
Scientific analysis of isotopes from the teeth revealed that water she drank during her childhood had contained minerals likely to have been found in North Africa. Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Her sarcophagus, which was made of stone, a sign of immense wealth in Roman Britain, was discovered in 1901 in Bootham, York. The city was then a legionary fortress and civilian settlement called Eboracum, founded by the Romans in AD71.
Her well-preserved remains showed that she was 1.5m (5ft 1in) and aged between 18 and 23. There were no signs of a violent death, and muscle markings showed that she had not lived a strenuous life, suggesting that she was affluent. Among the goods found in her grave was a bone with the inscription “Sor ave vivas in Deo” (Hail, sister, may you live in God), suggesting that she may also have been a Christian.
A bracelet of jet, probably from Whitby, North Yorkshire, showed that she had access to local trade networks. Researchers from the University of Reading’s department of archaeology believe that the ivory bangle, an artefact rarely found in Roman Britain, may have been kept by the woman as a memento of home.
Hella Eckardt, who carried out the study, said: “Multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her, contradicts assumptions about the make-up of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves.”
She said that “Ivory Bangle Lady” was very wealthy — “absolutely from the top end of York society”.
“The link between slavery and Africans is an early modern one. In the Roman world this simply was not the case. Slaves in Roman times could come from any area.”
She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children.
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now.
“This skull is particularly interesting, because the stone sarcophagus she was buried in, and the richness of the grave goods, means she was a very wealthy woman.”
The research, A Lady of York; migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain, is published in the March edition of the journal Antiquity. The “Ivory Bangle Lady” will be the centrepiece of an exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in August entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I once made a post now lost..about the fact that many of the African Roman soldiers especially of high rank if they did not returned to Rome or their countries of origin would have been given lands to settle a few could well intermarry with the local elites..as they would have been comparatively richer..with important connections. That was the basic severance pay package for any Roman soldier..some may not have been X military at all..but long distance traders. Remember this guy was supposed to be the leader of the Theban Legion.who had a falling out with Caesar and loss..but others such as Septimus Servus and Pescennius Niger(The Black) did quite well...well Septimus got rid of him..just maybe some of the BlackMoor's coat of arms reflect those old families as well as Moors of the Islamic era.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: From The Times February 27, 2010
Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Steve Bird Archaeologists have discovered that wealthy black Africans lived in Roman Britain in one of the country’s earliest examples of multiculturalism.
Scientific research techniques have established that a lavish grave containing a woman’s skeleton, an ivory bangle, perfume bottle, mirror and jewellery, belonged to a North African member of York’s high society in the 4th century.
Scientific analysis of isotopes from the teeth revealed that water she drank during her childhood had contained minerals likely to have been found in North Africa. Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Her sarcophagus, which was made of stone, a sign of immense wealth in Roman Britain, was discovered in 1901 in Bootham, York. The city was then a legionary fortress and civilian settlement called Eboracum, founded by the Romans in AD71.
Her well-preserved remains showed that she was 1.5m (5ft 1in) and aged between 18 and 23. There were no signs of a violent death, and muscle markings showed that she had not lived a strenuous life, suggesting that she was affluent. Among the goods found in her grave was a bone with the inscription “Sor ave vivas in Deo” (Hail, sister, may you live in God), suggesting that she may also have been a Christian.
A bracelet of jet, probably from Whitby, North Yorkshire, showed that she had access to local trade networks. Researchers from the University of Reading’s department of archaeology believe that the ivory bangle, an artefact rarely found in Roman Britain, may have been kept by the woman as a memento of home.
Hella Eckardt, who carried out the study, said: “Multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her, contradicts assumptions about the make-up of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves.”
She said that “Ivory Bangle Lady” was very wealthy — “absolutely from the top end of York society”.
“The link between slavery and Africans is an early modern one. In the Roman world this simply was not the case. Slaves in Roman times could come from any area.”
She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children.
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now.
“This skull is particularly interesting, because the stone sarcophagus she was buried in, and the richness of the grave goods, means she was a very wealthy woman.”
The research, A Lady of York; migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain, is published in the March edition of the journal Antiquity. The “Ivory Bangle Lady” will be the centrepiece of an exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in August entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire.
Interesting. You can tell the authors of this article are more in touch with reality when they acknowledge that this woman as a North African was black and not some "caucasian". As some Euronuts fantasize some "caucasian" population native to North Africa whereas blacks are only native to "Sub-Sahara".
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
Words of interest...
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now. Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children. Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now
Now notice this..
Kalonji
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
How can I believe this.
It seems that there is a huge Joke going on around the world.
I want to believe this but sadly all the things I have seen over these months shows me that there is some sick joke going on.
Peace
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Priceless. Rome may even qualify as a "multiracial" society more so than or before Dynastic Egypt does. It is probably only rivaled in this aspect by ancient Greeks.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: From The Times February 27, 2010
Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Steve Bird Archaeologists have discovered that wealthy black Africans lived in Roman Britain in one of the country’s earliest examples of multiculturalism.
Scientific research techniques have established that a lavish grave containing a woman’s skeleton, an ivory bangle, perfume bottle, mirror and jewellery, belonged to a North African member of York’s high society in the 4th century.
Scientific analysis of isotopes from the teeth revealed that water she drank during her childhood had contained minerals likely to have been found in North Africa. Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Her sarcophagus, which was made of stone, a sign of immense wealth in Roman Britain, was discovered in 1901 in Bootham, York. The city was then a legionary fortress and civilian settlement called Eboracum, founded by the Romans in AD71.
Her well-preserved remains showed that she was 1.5m (5ft 1in) and aged between 18 and 23. There were no signs of a violent death, and muscle markings showed that she had not lived a strenuous life, suggesting that she was affluent. Among the goods found in her grave was a bone with the inscription “Sor ave vivas in Deo” (Hail, sister, may you live in God), suggesting that she may also have been a Christian.
A bracelet of jet, probably from Whitby, North Yorkshire, showed that she had access to local trade networks. Researchers from the University of Reading’s department of archaeology believe that the ivory bangle, an artefact rarely found in Roman Britain, may have been kept by the woman as a memento of home.
Hella Eckardt, who carried out the study, said: “Multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her, contradicts assumptions about the make-up of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves.”
She said that “Ivory Bangle Lady” was very wealthy — “absolutely from the top end of York society”.
“The link between slavery and Africans is an early modern one. In the Roman world this simply was not the case. Slaves in Roman times could come from any area.”
She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children.
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now.
“This skull is particularly interesting, because the stone sarcophagus she was buried in, and the richness of the grave goods, means she was a very wealthy woman.”
The research, A Lady of York; migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain, is published in the March edition of the journal Antiquity. The “Ivory Bangle Lady” will be the centrepiece of an exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in August entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire.
Marc, Mike and I have tried to teach you history these many years and you have learned nothing. Like an ignorant child you parrot the findings of Europeans without putting them in the proper context--i.e., interpreting them based on the research of our great scholars.
Your lack of self-esteem allows you to buy into this garbage that interactions between blacks and whites has always been based on a master servant relationship with europeans in the dominant position.
This is only surprising to people who don't know Afrocentric ancient history. J.A. Rogers proved years ago that there were already Blacks in Britain when the Romans came on the scene.
Why do you wait for Europeans to tell you things Black scholars have been teaching for year.It is sad you have failed to learn your own history written by Blacks.
Respect your own researchers then the other man will respect you.
.
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
You guys are a bunch of desperate idiots.
"Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race."
Now go hang yourselves desperate illiterate aholes.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: From The Times February 27, 2010
Analysis of Roman grave reveals that York was a multicultural society
Steve Bird Archaeologists have discovered that wealthy black Africans lived in Roman Britain in one of the country’s earliest examples of multiculturalism.
Scientific research techniques have established that a lavish grave containing a woman’s skeleton, an ivory bangle, perfume bottle, mirror and jewellery, belonged to a North African member of York’s high society in the 4th century.
Scientific analysis of isotopes from the teeth revealed that water she drank during her childhood had contained minerals likely to have been found in North Africa. Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Her sarcophagus, which was made of stone, a sign of immense wealth in Roman Britain, was discovered in 1901 in Bootham, York. The city was then a legionary fortress and civilian settlement called Eboracum, founded by the Romans in AD71.
Her well-preserved remains showed that she was 1.5m (5ft 1in) and aged between 18 and 23. There were no signs of a violent death, and muscle markings showed that she had not lived a strenuous life, suggesting that she was affluent. Among the goods found in her grave was a bone with the inscription “Sor ave vivas in Deo” (Hail, sister, may you live in God), suggesting that she may also have been a Christian.
A bracelet of jet, probably from Whitby, North Yorkshire, showed that she had access to local trade networks. Researchers from the University of Reading’s department of archaeology believe that the ivory bangle, an artefact rarely found in Roman Britain, may have been kept by the woman as a memento of home.
Hella Eckardt, who carried out the study, said: “Multicultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the ‘Ivory Bangle Lady’ and others like her, contradicts assumptions about the make-up of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves.”
She said that “Ivory Bangle Lady” was very wealthy — “absolutely from the top end of York society”.
“The link between slavery and Africans is an early modern one. In the Roman world this simply was not the case. Slaves in Roman times could come from any area.”
She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children.
Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now.
“This skull is particularly interesting, because the stone sarcophagus she was buried in, and the richness of the grave goods, means she was a very wealthy woman.”
The research, A Lady of York; migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain, is published in the March edition of the journal Antiquity. The “Ivory Bangle Lady” will be the centrepiece of an exhibition at the Yorkshire Museum in August entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire.
Marc, Mike and I have tried to teach you history these many years and you have learned nothing. Like an ignorant child you parrot the findings of Europeans without putting them in the proper context--i.e., interpreting them based on the research of our great scholars.
Your lack of self-esteem allows you to buy into this garbage that interactions between blacks and whites has always been based on a master servant relationship with europeans in the dominant position.
This is only surprising to people who don't know Afrocentric ancient history. J.A. Rogers proved years ago that there were already Blacks in Britain when the Romans came on the scene.
Why do you wait for Europeans to tell you things Black scholars have been teaching for year.It is sad you have failed to learn your own history written by Blacks.
Respect your own researchers then the other man will respect you.
.
LOL! Clyde, who said that people here disagree with J.A. Rogers? What they disagree with is YOU and your attempts to tie every black population outside of Africa to Mande speakers! LOL! All you are doing is trying to use the work of REAL scholars as a crutch to support your own nonsense.
Don't get me wrong, linguistics is an important area of research. However it is not enough by itself. There is a difference between disagreeing with some of your theories which are based on little more than often absurd linguistic analysis and disagreeing with all scholarship on African history. The two are not the same. Your position and way of research is yours only, even if other scholars have similar interests.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cowering Assoholic: You guys are a bunch of desperate idiots.
"Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race."
Now go hang yourselves desperate illiterate aholes.
LMAO It's obvious who the illiterate one since you missed the supposition word 'or' since craniometry has proven that 'race' is not a concise or objective entity as genetics has proven as well.
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
Have you guys at least completed undergraduate study? I am starting to think some of you people are not formally educated. What is "OR"?
quote: or [awr; unstressed er] Show IPA –conjunction 1.(used to connect words, phrases, or clauses representing alternatives): books or magazines; to be or not to be.
Do you get it now dimwit? You are the second person who has misread what has been presented in a document today.
"Or" is a conjunction you idiot; its function is to contrast indepedent variables. With that in mind -- The author is reporting that the race of the skull is EITHER black or mixed (the article does not even provide what are the variables to the admixture). The race is inconclusive asshole. All we know is that it is either a black woman or a woman of mixed heritage.
Hopefully one of the more moderate Afro-loons will take you to the corner and whisper in your ear, "You are wrong. Stand down."
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: It's obvious who the illiterate one since you missed the supposition word 'or' since craniometry has proven that 'race' is not a concise or objective entity as genetics has proven as well.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes, I know what a conjunction is, but as usual you are too dumb to see the point that the whole phrase is a supposition. The woman was either black OR of mixed-black ancestry. It is not clear which, precisely because individuals and especially those of African descent vary a lot in craniofacial physiognomy. Thus your emphasis of her being 'mixed' is null, nor would it make much of a difference since the point of this article is to show the significance of Africans or those of African descent in the Roman Empire. We know how much that destroys your views of blacks in history, but we nor the author of the article really cares. Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Greece and Rome is what the Euronuts should be defending. They looked to the South with respect and the Northerners as savages.
After all . . .there were many prominent "negros" in Greco-Roman Society
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
Why are you singing to the choir! (LOL) That is what I posted in the thread to you idiots; the lady is not being touted as a "black" woman by the author. Now... explain to me this, idiot:
"You can tell the authors of this article are more in touch with reality when they acknowledge that this woman as a North African was black and not some "caucasian". "
Those are your words, idiot (which btw... prompted me to put you on blast). Where does the author claim this in the article, idiot? (LOL) I swear you guys are so easy!
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes, I know what a conjunction is. But as usual you are to dumb to see the point that the whole phrase is a supposition. The woman was either black OR of 'mixed'. It is not clear which precisely because individuals and especially those of African descent vary a lot in craniofacial physiognomy. Thus your emphasis of her being 'mixed' is null, nor would it make much of a difference since the point of this article is to show the significance of Africans or those of African descent in the Roman Empire. We know how much that destroys your views of blacks in history, but we nor the author of the article really cares.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Ignoring the Assoholic angered over the findings of the topic article...
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Greece and Rome is what the Euronuts should be defending. They looked to the South with respect and the Northerners as savages.
After all . . .there were many prominent "negros" in Greco-Roman Society
Of course. The Greeks and Romans were still ethnocentric and highly chauvinistic but they were not fools the way many euronuts (or their minions) are today. They knew nothing of color or phenotype based prejudice and they've long known of the advanced cultures of black Africans.
By the way, this article reminds me of recent depictions of the Roman Empire such as HBO's Rome where their portrayal of blacks seems to be closer to the truth.
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
"Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race. "
RFLOL!!! This sh1t is fun! Im'a keep spamming this quote until you loons are blue in your faces!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Alcoholic!!! it doesn't matter if the person was mixed or so-called black the point was folks of African descent was part of the make-up of ancient York..Septimus Servus an African of what looked to be of Mixed back-ground himself stationed African troops on the British isle.
Elsewhere in Europe as in "Britain" Black soldiers were actively recruited by Rome and served tours of duty in Britain,France,Switzerland,Poland,Romania,Hungary,Austria..etc.
An original brass military diploma which dates from the middle of the second century A.D mentions Moorish soldiers in Moesia,which is modern Serbia.Another military diploma A.D 158 speakes of Moorish soldiers from Africa in Dacia, or modern Romania,and also of auxiliary troops of the Dacian Moors. A Roman document,Notitia Dignitatum,which dates from the beginning of the fifth century A.D; mentions several Moorish battalions in the Balkans and Moorish military colony Ad Mauros which was located on the Inn river near Vienna; and in what is modern Beseribia,there was a city called Maurocastrum. According to the document Notitia Dignitatum,2500 to 5000 Illyrian Moorish soldiers, in five separate military units,had served in the Near East.From this document we must deduce that at the beginning of the fifth century at least 100,000 descendants of Moors lived in Illyrium, which was located in the Balkans.
Brunson And Rashidi Golden Age Of The Moors:
So I say again that some of the coat of arms may stem from these families
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
Uh, no sir. It does matter when you have a loon colleague of yours making the following statement and refusing to retract it, even though he was shown to be in err:
"You can tell the authors of this article are more in touch with reality when they acknowledge that this woman as a North African was black and not some "caucasian". "
Are you man enough to tell your colleague that that is an inaccurate statement and that he needs to retract or revise it? I bet you the answer to that is NO. Why? Because people like you are not about honest scholarship. People like you i.e. Afrocentrists, have a racial-political agenda. This is not about academics for you. This is about a struggle, a cause and, by any means necessary, to see it all the way through until you have gained the victory.
Fvck you! I dont have respect for dishonest people.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Alcoholic!!! it doesn't matter if the person was mixed or so-called black the point was folks of African descent was part of the make-up of ancient York.
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Ignoring the Assoholic angered over the findings of the topic article...
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Greece and Rome is what the Euronuts should be defending. They looked to the South with respect and the Northerners as savages.
After all . . .there were many prominent "negros" in Greco-Roman Society
Of course. The Greeks and Romans were still ethnocentric and highly chauvinistic but they were not fools the way many euronuts (or their minions) are today. They knew nothing of color or phenotype based prejudice and they've long known of the advanced cultures of black Africans.
By the way, this article reminds me of recent depictions of the Roman Empire such as HBO's Rome where their portrayal of blacks seems to be closer to the truth.
HBO's Rome was the closest dipiction of Egyptians period, except for the Ugly bald white lady Verenus was with...Man that bitch was Ugly as hell. They did a Good job on Cleopatra although she did not Trick Mark Anthony she was gonna kill herself until Octavian stopped her, She resorted to the Apse bite becuase Octavian put her on watch. That Octavian Kid was pretty ugly too he looked like a Demon.
Posted by Evergreen (Member # 12192) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children. Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now
Now notice this..
Kalonji
Good catch.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
A similar article was written up some yrs back
First Genetic Evidence Of Long-Lived African Presence Within Britain
The researchers, led by Professor Mark Jobling, of the Department of Genetics at the University of Leicester, first spotted the rare Y chromosome type, known as hgA1, in one individual, Mr. X. This happened whilst PhD student Ms. Turi King was sampling a larger group in a study to explore the association between surnames and the Y chromosome, both inherited from father to son. Mr. X, a white Caucasian living in Leicester, was unaware of having any African ancestors.
"As you can imagine, we were pretty amazed to find this result in someone unaware of having any African roots," explains Professor Jobling, a Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow. "The Y chromosome is passed down from father to son, so this suggested that Mr. X must have had African ancestry somewhere down the line. Our study suggests that this must have happened some time ago."
Although most of Britain's one million people who define themselves as "Black or Black British" owe their origins to immigration from the Caribbean and Africa from the mid-twentieth century onwards, in reality, there has been a long history of contact with Africa. Africans were first recorded in the north 1800 years ago, as Roman soldiers defending Hadrian's Wall. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070124072328.htm
quote:Are you man enough to tell your colleague that that is an inaccurate statement and that he needs to retract or revise it? I bet you the answer to that is NO. Why? Because people like you are not about honest scholarship. People like you i.e. Afrocentrists, have a racial-political agenda. This is not about academics for you. This is about a struggle, a cause and, by any means necessary, to see it all the way through until you have gained the victory. Fvck you! I dont have respect for dishonest people.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Some more stuff from the rich lady's grave
Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: You guys are a bunch of desperate idiots.
"Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race."
Now go hang yourselves desperate illiterate aholes.
There is no real way of finding a skull to be "mixed race" you jackass, skulls that are intermediate are not necessarily mixed, except in the rigid typological sense.
Posted by Avee (Member # 16937) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: A similar article was written up some yrs back
First Genetic Evidence Of Long-Lived African Presence Within Britain
The researchers, led by Professor Mark Jobling, of the Department of Genetics at the University of Leicester, first spotted the rare Y chromosome type, known as hgA1, in one individual, Mr. X. This happened whilst PhD student Ms. Turi King was sampling a larger group in a study to explore the association between surnames and the Y chromosome, both inherited from father to son. Mr. X, a white Caucasian living in Leicester, was unaware of having any African ancestors.
"As you can imagine, we were pretty amazed to find this result in someone unaware of having any African roots," explains Professor Jobling, a Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow. "The Y chromosome is passed down from father to son, so this suggested that Mr. X must have had African ancestry somewhere down the line. Our study suggests that this must have happened some time ago."
Although most of Britain's one million people who define themselves as "Black or Black British" owe their origins to immigration from the Caribbean and Africa from the mid-twentieth century onwards, in reality, there has been a long history of contact with Africa. Africans were first recorded in the north 1800 years ago, as Roman soldiers defending Hadrian's Wall. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070124072328.htm
quote:Are you man enough to tell your colleague that that is an inaccurate statement and that he needs to retract or revise it? I bet you the answer to that is NO. Why? Because people like you are not about honest scholarship. People like you i.e. Afrocentrists, have a racial-political agenda. This is not about academics for you. This is about a struggle, a cause and, by any means necessary, to see it all the way through until you have gained the victory. Fvck you! I dont have respect for dishonest people.
This is the family. Notice how they tried to make it appear the guys DNA is north Africa instead sub-saharan. The family had Hg A1. For the guy to show his face they labelled the African Y-Dna north African.
Yorkshireman found to share DNA with African tribes Last updated at 22:52em on 27.01.07 Revis has always considered himself a true Yorkshireman who was proud of his ancestry. But he has been forced to confront an entirely different heritage - after scientists uncovered that he has exactly the same DNA imprint as a tribe of African warriors. Scientists last week announced the discovery of the first proof that slaves brought to Britain by the Romans left behind a distinct genetic heritage. This strand was revealed to exist among just seven men with a particular surname hailing from the North of England. However, the academics refused to disclose the identities of any of those men included in the study. Now The Mail on Sunday has discovered that all of those with the African lineage have the surname Revis. Last night, John, 75, a retired surveyor living in Leicester, said: "I started looking into my family history and traced my ancestors back to the mid-1700s. "One line went to the States and became very successful while my immediate line stayed in the North of England and were mostly bakers. There was nothing to suggest that I was African." John responded to a newspaper advert by Leicester University asking for people who have traced their ancestry to give DNA samples for a study on world populations. He said: "The scientists took some of my DNA away for analysis and then one day they called me up and were very excited. They said I had a Y-chromosome that was extremely rare. I was flabbergasted. I had no idea that I was so culturally unique. But I am not going to start eating couscous and riding a camel." John is attempting to take the discovery in his stride. He added: "It was a shock to find out that, because I was so blond and blue-eyed when I was younger, people thought I was Nordic or German. "But the researchers said that if my DNA were examined then people would assume they were looking at a North African man. "I suspect there must have been some big Berber tribesman who came to Britain with the Romans and spread his seed all over Yorkshire." John is married with three children and six grandchildren. The news shocked his friends at Brookfield Bowls Club in Leicester. He added: "It is a very white establishment which can be a little awkward in a multi-racial place such as Leicester. "At least now they can say they have got one more ethnic-minority member but I doubt anyone would be able to pick me out. His wife Marlene was also taken aback." She said: "I can hardly believe it. John has always seemed very English to me. He likes his roast beef and Yorkshire pudding on a Sunday. He has never asked me to cook anything unusual. My friends think our news is hilarious. "The closest John ever came to the traditional Berber life was when he went camping with the Scouts. I don't think we've been in a tent since we got married.' Scientists from Leicester University made the finding during research sponsored by The Wellcome Trust. They were examining the relationship between the male, or Y, chromosome and surnames. Like surnames, the Y-chromosome is passed from father to son, virtually unchanged through generations. Professor Mark Jobling said: "We found John was in the A1 group of Y-chromosomes, which is very rare and highly west African-specific. "This study has shown what it means to be British is complicated and always has been. Human migration history is very complex, particularly for an island nation such as ours. This study further debunks the idea that there are simple and distinct populations or races." Over time, the Y-chromosome accumulates small changes in DNA sequence, allowing scientists to study the relationships between different male lineages. The surname Revis is believed to derive from Rievaulx Abbey in Yorkshire. Berber comes from the Latin word for Barbarian. Fellow researcher Turi King said: "Our findings represent the first genetic evidence of Africans among 'indigenous' British people." She added that Africans were first recorded in northern England 1,800 years ago, brought by the Romans to help defend Hadrian's Wall. Ms King said: "The slave trade was responsible for the influx of Africans in the 16th and 17th Centuries. By the last third of the 18th Century there were 10,000 black people in Britain.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Charlie Bass!! my guess is that because the finds are the remains of a wealthy woman of African decent and not a slave..living large in not just Rome but York England burns him to no small ends...if she had been a slave he would gleefully point to how "SUB SAHARAN NEGROES AND A BLACK WOMAN "to boot were looked upon with disfavor from the most ancient of times untill now.
Posted by .Charlie Bass. (Member # 10328) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Charlie Bass!! my guess is that because the finds are the remains of a wealthy woman of African decent and not a slave..living large in not just Rome but York England burns him to no small ends...if she had been a slave he would gleefully point to how "SUB SAHARAN NEGROES AND A BLACK WOMAN "to boot were looked upon with disfavor from the most ancient of times untill now.
Indeed, they tried the same thing when "Negroid" affinities were found in a number of graves from Carthage, they tried the slave explanation but it just didn't fly when the grave of the Priestess of Tanit was found to have "Negroid" affinities. Now they trying the mixed race thing.
Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
Go feed that red herring to someone else fool. We are talking about the article on the Bangle Lady, you insincere fvck. I knew you could not man-up and tell dude he's off, cause you off too!
Well Avee!!I don't find much of a problem if they found specific North African markers...actually it would make a lot of sense since East-Africa and North-West Africa had a lot more communication with the Roman empire, than countries below the Saharan zone...however they did say this
quote:Professor Mark Jobling said: "We found John was in the A1 group of Y-chromosomes, which is very rare and highly west African-specific.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Alcoholic
quote:Go feed that red herring to someone else fool. We are talking about the article on the Bangle Lady, you insincere fvck. I knew you could not man-up and tell dude he's off, cause you off too!
Relax yourself fool. There are a number of articles on it. I assumed you tried to slip an article that had no bearing on the subject. My bad on that. Now, Show me in your article where it says the skull was that of a black woman.
quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: Relax yourself fool. There are a number of articles on it. I assumed you tried to slip an article that had no bearing on the subject. My bad on that. Now, Show me in your article where it says the skull was that of a black woman.
This bitch gets Debunked TWICE Damn you fucking stupid...GOOD WORK BRADA for exposing him...LOL
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Charlie Bass!! my guess is that because the finds are the remains of a wealthy woman of African decent and not a slave..living large in not just Rome but York England burns him to no small ends...if she had been a slave he would gleefully point to how "SUB SAHARAN NEGROES AND A BLACK WOMAN "to boot were looked upon with disfavor from the most ancient of times untill now.
Indeed, they tried the same thing when "Negroid" affinities were found in a number of graves from Carthage, they tried the slave explanation but it just didn't fly when the grave of the Priestess of Tanit was found to have "Negroid" affinities. Now they trying the mixed race thing.
So in other words studies are showing that North Africa was inhabited by a lot more Black Africans..LMAO...I guess us Afrocentrics WIN AGAIN. I wonder what Mathida will do now.???
Posted by Narmer Menes (Member # 16122) on :
These white people are funny, and so deceptive it's actually disgusting! Notice, the woman is clearly Black African. The University of Reading only classify as North African because of some mild 'European affinities'... ring any bells? The 'mixed-ancestry' bull is just to dilute the blow. How mixed exactly? And 'North African' is just some bogus guess work. Also, note how in the article below they say that if that old man's DNA were tested, they would think they were looking at a North African. Then, because he shares DNA with the Ivory Bangle lady, back apply this logic and start to throw in nonsense about Berber- origins! The woman was African, they are just mixing terminologies to get the 'most-white' result... Racism is truly a degenerative disease...
quote:Originally posted by Avee:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: A similar article was written up some yrs back
First Genetic Evidence Of Long-Lived African Presence Within Britain
The researchers, led by Professor Mark Jobling, of the Department of Genetics at the University of Leicester, first spotted the rare Y chromosome type, known as hgA1, in one individual, Mr. X. This happened whilst PhD student Ms. Turi King was sampling a larger group in a study to explore the association between surnames and the Y chromosome, both inherited from father to son. Mr. X, a white Caucasian living in Leicester, was unaware of having any African ancestors.
"As you can imagine, we were pretty amazed to find this result in someone unaware of having any African roots," explains Professor Jobling, a Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow. "The Y chromosome is passed down from father to son, so this suggested that Mr. X must have had African ancestry somewhere down the line. Our study suggests that this must have happened some time ago."
Although most of Britain's one million people who define themselves as "Black or Black British" owe their origins to immigration from the Caribbean and Africa from the mid-twentieth century onwards, in reality, there has been a long history of contact with Africa. Africans were first recorded in the north 1800 years ago, as Roman soldiers defending Hadrian's Wall. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070124072328.htm
quote:Are you man enough to tell your colleague that that is an inaccurate statement and that he needs to retract or revise it? I bet you the answer to that is NO. Why? Because people like you are not about honest scholarship. People like you i.e. Afrocentrists, have a racial-political agenda. This is not about academics for you. This is about a struggle, a cause and, by any means necessary, to see it all the way through until you have gained the victory. Fvck you! I dont have respect for dishonest people.
This is the family. Notice how they tried to make it appear the guys DNA is north Africa instead sub-saharan. The family had Hg A1. For the guy to show his face they labelled the African Y-Dna north African.
Yorkshireman found to share DNA with African tribes Last updated at 22:52em on 27.01.07 Revis has always considered himself a true Yorkshireman who was proud of his ancestry. But he has been forced to confront an entirely different heritage - after scientists uncovered that he has exactly the same DNA imprint as a tribe of African warriors. Scientists last week announced the discovery of the first proof that slaves brought to Britain by the Romans left behind a distinct genetic heritage. This strand was revealed to exist among just seven men with a particular surname hailing from the North of England. However, the academics refused to disclose the identities of any of those men included in the study. Now The Mail on Sunday has discovered that all of those with the African lineage have the surname Revis. Last night, John, 75, a retired surveyor living in Leicester, said: "I started looking into my family history and traced my ancestors back to the mid-1700s. "One line went to the States and became very successful while my immediate line stayed in the North of England and were mostly bakers. There was nothing to suggest that I was African." John responded to a newspaper advert by Leicester University asking for people who have traced their ancestry to give DNA samples for a study on world populations. He said: "The scientists took some of my DNA away for analysis and then one day they called me up and were very excited. They said I had a Y-chromosome that was extremely rare. I was flabbergasted. I had no idea that I was so culturally unique. But I am not going to start eating couscous and riding a camel." John is attempting to take the discovery in his stride. He added: "It was a shock to find out that, because I was so blond and blue-eyed when I was younger, people thought I was Nordic or German. "But the researchers said that if my DNA were examined then people would assume they were looking at a North African man. "I suspect there must have been some big Berber tribesman who came to Britain with the Romans and spread his seed all over Yorkshire." John is married with three children and six grandchildren. The news shocked his friends at Brookfield Bowls Club in Leicester. He added: "It is a very white establishment which can be a little awkward in a multi-racial place such as Leicester. "At least now they can say they have got one more ethnic-minority member but I doubt anyone would be able to pick me out. His wife Marlene was also taken aback." She said: "I can hardly believe it. John has always seemed very English to me. He likes his roast beef and Yorkshire pudding on a Sunday. He has never asked me to cook anything unusual. My friends think our news is hilarious. "The closest John ever came to the traditional Berber life was when he went camping with the Scouts. I don't think we've been in a tent since we got married.' Scientists from Leicester University made the finding during research sponsored by The Wellcome Trust. They were examining the relationship between the male, or Y, chromosome and surnames. Like surnames, the Y-chromosome is passed from father to son, virtually unchanged through generations. Professor Mark Jobling said: "We found John was in the A1 group of Y-chromosomes, which is very rare and highly west African-specific. "This study has shown what it means to be British is complicated and always has been. Human migration history is very complex, particularly for an island nation such as ours. This study further debunks the idea that there are simple and distinct populations or races." Over time, the Y-chromosome accumulates small changes in DNA sequence, allowing scientists to study the relationships between different male lineages. The surname Revis is believed to derive from Rievaulx Abbey in Yorkshire. Berber comes from the Latin word for Barbarian. Fellow researcher Turi King said: "Our findings represent the first genetic evidence of Africans among 'indigenous' British people." She added that Africans were first recorded in northern England 1,800 years ago, brought by the Romans to help defend Hadrian's Wall. Ms King said: "The slave trade was responsible for the influx of Africans in the 16th and 17th Centuries. By the last third of the 18th Century there were 10,000 black people in Britain.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
From the same article; Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Alcoholic
quote:Now, Show me in your article where it says the skull was that of a black woman.
.. Posted by Recovering Afro-holic (Member # 17311) on :
I presume you are not referring to the picture. You would not be that foolish. So, you must be referring to the statement in the article:
"Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race."
Brada, you seem like a somewhat intelligent guy. I specifically asked you to show me where in the article it says the lady was black. Your response is that quote. Am I correct?
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: From the same article; Skull measurements have also established that the “Ivory Bangle Lady” was black or of mixed race.
Alcoholic
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
up
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LMAO @ the humiliation and stupidity of Assholelick!
Indeed, you can see his frustration over the fact that this elite lady was of black African descent! Now, if the article said she was a "slave", no doubt the fool not only NOT deny her blackness but emphasize it!
Face the facts Assholelick, blacks were never the inferior beings you wish they were, especially back in ancient times and even in Europe!
This reminds me, where is the Hammered professor?
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children. Dr Eckardt continued: “We’re looking at a population mix which is much closer to contemporary Britain than previous historians had suspected. In the case of York, the Roman population may have had more diverse origins than the city has now
Now notice this..
Kalonji
What study is this diagram from?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
It's from one of keita's papers that deal with the Lachish crania. I forgot which one but I print screened and saved it a while back.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
I recently had an email correspondence with the archaeologist Hella Eckardt and she emailed me the actual paper!
Is there anyway I can transfer the pdf link from the email to here??
By the way, judging from a google find on the topic, the Euronuts are going absolutely crazy about this, especially those from the UK itself! LOL
Here are just a few of the many sites with comments below:
You know it's interesting how they reason that such a finding is nothing more than "left-wing" cultural diversity "propaganda". Yet what are we to make of claims that Egyptian civilization (in Africa) was somehow a mixed "melting pot" of sorts not just blacks? By the way, these fools remind me of Hammered when they interject their silly modern politics instead of fess up to the data. LOL Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
By the way, is it me, or does the reconstruction of the Ivory Bangled Lady look alot like the actress Gina Torres??
Posted by homeylu (Member # 4430) on :
quote:Originally posted by Narmer Menes: These white people are funny, and so deceptive it's actually disgusting! Notice, the woman is clearly Black African. The University of Reading only classify as North African because of some mild 'European affinities'... ring any bells? The 'mixed-ancestry' bull is just to dilute the blow. How mixed exactly? And 'North African' is just some bogus guess work. Also, note how in the article below they say that if that old man's DNA were tested, they would think they were looking at a North African. Then, because he shares DNA with the Ivory Bangle lady, back apply this logic and start to throw in nonsense about Berber- origins! The woman was African, they are just mixing terminologies to get the 'most-white' result... Racism is truly a degenerative disease...
"Deceptive" is not even the word! It must depend on WHO is actually reporting, to get more objective news; 'Even if it's harder for him to swallow, the man has WEST AFRICAN origins, lol.
"By chance, the researchers discovered a white man with a rare Yorkshire surname carrying a Y chromosome haplogroup that had previously been found only in West African men. And even there, it is relatively uncommon.
"We found that he was in haplogroup A1, which is highly West African-specific," said Turi King, a co-author on the study at the University of Leicester.
"The subhaplogroup A1 was first reported in a single individual among a sample of 44 males from Mali.4 Subsequently, this scarce Western African hg has been found in only 25 more males (Figure 1): 2 Moroccan Berbers, 3 African Americans, 2 Mandinka from Gambia/Senegal, 1 Malian Dogon, 1 Cape Verde Islanders, 14 males from Guinea-Bissau, and 2 males from Niger .....This is compatible with a Western African origin for the British chromosome, but does not point to a particular population......The remarkable Y chromosome present in the R surname provides the first genetic evidence of a long-lived African presence within Britain.
Very interesting that Ivory Bangle Lady is no new find. Her stone coffin was unearthed back in 1901.
I find it refreshing that the Ivory Bangle Lady's reconstucted features have been labeled North African. It's a breakthrough that African black facial features are finally being associated with North Africa displacing the "blonde Berber" and the uniformily caucasian stereotype lies.
A computerised reconstruction of how the Ivory Bangle Lady could have looked. Image credit: Dr Hella Eckardt/University of Reading
The complete article that newspapers/blogs reported on is:
S. Leach, H. Eckardt, C. Chenery, G. Müldner, M. Lewis A Lady of York: migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain Antiquity, Volume: 84 Number: 323 Page: 131-145. http://antiquity.ac.uk/ant/084/ant0840131.htm
The authors' affiliations are: Department of Archaeology, School of Human and Environmental Sciences, University of Reading, Reading RG6 6AB, UK
NERC Isotope Geoscience Laboratory, British Geological Survey, Kingsley Dunham Centre, Keyworth, Nottingham NG12 5GG, UK
The quarterly review's blurb on its article reads: Modern methods of analysis applied to cemeteries have often been used in our pages to suggest generalities about mobility and diet. But these same techniques applied to a single individual, together with the grave goods and burial rite, can open a special kind of personal window on the past. Here, the authors of a multidisciplinary project use a combination of scientific techniques to illuminate Roman York, and later Roman history in general, with their image of a glamorous mixed-race woman, in touch with Africa, Christianity, Rome and Yorkshire.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Some futher reasons why the concept of race is bull-sh!t..
There are other precedents for the finding. The third US president, Thomas Jefferson, probably had a Y chromosome belonging to the haplogroup known as K2. This discovery came out of a project to determine whether he had fathered children from Sally Hemings, a slave owned by Jefferson.
The president had no surname-bearing progeny, so researchers had to test male-line descendents of his paternal uncle.
Jefferson's father claimed Welsh ancestry. But his Y-haplogroup is rare in Europe and has not yet been reported in Britain.
In fact, genetic studies show that Thomas Jefferson's K2 haplogroup ultimately came from north-east Africa or the Middle East, the areas where it is most commonly found today.
The Fulani in Cameroun have K2-M70 at 18%. I think M70 now classifies as marking hg T.
It would be enlightening to test the remains of autochthone British islanders that MacRitchie conclusively found to be native blacks.
Thus we have those CeltIberians the Roman author Tacitus labeled Silures. Were they and other blacks of the pre-Roman British Isles direct remnants of the first R-M173 settlers of Western Europe? Only DNA testing of osteo remains of these peoples will tell.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
AlTakruri
quote:The Fulani in Cameroun have K2-M70 at 18%. I think M70 now classifies as marking hg T.
Interesting.. soo... ol slave banging white Thomas Jefferson may have been of Fulani extraction himself wouldn't that be ironic.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Very interesting that Ivory Bangle Lady is no new find. Her stone coffin was unearthed back in 1901.
I find it refreshing that the Ivory Bangle Lady's reconstucted features have been labeled North African. It's a breakthrough that African black facial features are finally being associated with North Africa displacing the "blonde Berber" and the uniformily caucasian stereotype lies.
Exactly what I noted! I mean it's not often you hear scholars, in particular archaeologists admit that blacks were native to North Africa as well. Heck, even the notion is relatively new to many bioanthropologists.
quote: A computerised reconstruction of how the Ivory Bangle Lady could have looked. Image credit: Dr Hella Eckardt/University of Reading
The complete article that newspapers/blogs reported on is:
S. Leach, H. Eckardt, C. Chenery, G. Müldner, M. Lewis A Lady of York: migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain Antiquity, Volume: 84 Number: 323 Page: 131-145. http://antiquity.ac.uk/ant/084/ant0840131.htm
The authors' affiliations are: Department of Archaeology, School of Human and Environmental Sciences, University of Reading, Reading RG6 6AB, UK
NERC Isotope Geoscience Laboratory, British Geological Survey, Kingsley Dunham Centre, Keyworth, Nottingham NG12 5GG, UK
The quarterly review's blurb on its article reads: Modern methods of analysis applied to cemeteries have often been used in our pages to suggest generalities about mobility and diet. But these same techniques applied to a single individual, together with the grave goods and burial rite, can open a special kind of personal window on the past. Here, the authors of a multidisciplinary project use a combination of scientific techniques to illuminate Roman York, and later Roman history in general, with their image of a glamorous mixed-race woman, in touch with Africa, Christianity, Rome and Yorkshire.
Well I emailed the author and she emailed me the whole paper. Is there anyway I can post it or at least link it here??
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Some futher reasons why the concept of race is bull-sh!t..
There are other precedents for the finding. The third US president, Thomas Jefferson, probably had a Y chromosome belonging to the haplogroup known as K2. This discovery came out of a project to determine whether he had fathered children from Sally Hemings, a slave owned by Jefferson.
The president had no surname-bearing progeny, so researchers had to test male-line descendents of his paternal uncle.
Jefferson's father claimed Welsh ancestry. But his Y-haplogroup is rare in Europe and has not yet been reported in Britain.
In fact, genetic studies show that Thomas Jefferson's K2 haplogroup ultimately came from north-east Africa or the Middle East, the areas where it is most commonly found today.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The Fulani in Cameroun have K2-M70 at 18%. I think M70 now classifies as marking hg T.
Interesting. Another excellent example of questioning the basis of certain lineages being labeled 'Eurasian' in the first place, let alone the whole notion of biological 'races' even existing.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
@ DJ.
Where is YH when you need him?
One suggestion.
1. Convert to PDF file or jpg. If you have the software. 2. Upload to a pdf host site. Then link.
3. Or if it is a jpg, then use tinypic or something similar.
oh!! also I believe Bob_01(?) uses a file share site in many of his post.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Duh! I don't know why I didn't think of that myself. Thanks, Xyman.
Ancestry In 1901, little attention was given to the skeletal remains interred within the coffin (Boynton 1902; RCHM Ebvracvm 1962: 73). A re-assessment of ST60 showed that the skeleton is of a young female, aged between 18–23 years. Her height was calculated by means of regression formulae based on the correlation of limb-bone length to stature (Trotter 1970), suggesting a height of 5’1” (range: 5’0”–5’2” or 152-160cm) based on the maximum length of the femur (414mm). This makes her only slightly shorter than the average female from Roman Britain, where the average stature has been estimated at 5’2” (Roberts & Cox 2003: 142). The skeleton was gracile and did not exhibit pronounced muscle markings that would have suggested a strenuous lifestyle (Hawkey & Merbs 1995). There was no evidence of trauma, pathology or childhood stress, and no apparent cause of death. While some early craniometric studies were tainted by racism (Gould 1992; Arnold 2006: 15-19, Pl. 1; Gosden 2006), ancestry assessment is today an established method in forensic anthropology and offers valuable additional information on the identity of an individual. Ancestry assessment methods that evaluate cranial and facial morphology (Bass 1995) traditionally use simplified categories such as ‘mixed race’, ‘black’ and ‘white’, but it is understood that skeletal assessment does not give information about skin colour, and that discretely defined racial groups do not exist (Brace 1995; AAPA 1996). Instead, morphological and metrical assessments of the skull tell us about phenotypical variation of humans over geographic areas (Brace 1995; AAPA 1996). The remains of the ‘ivory bangle lady’ were analysed using standard methods for the assessment of ancestry in forensic anthropology (see Bass 1995; Byers 2005). During the osteological analysis it was noted that the facial characteristics of this female exhibited a mix of ‘black’ and ‘white’ ancestral traits (Figure 3). The skull exhibited a low, wide and broad nasal ridge and wide inter-orbital breadth suggestive of ‘black’ ancestry, while the nasal spine and nasal border demonstrated ‘white’ characteristics. The shape of the nasal aperture was inconclusive. Although some post-mortem damage had occurred, the cranium was complete enough to perform a craniometric analysis, which quantifies the characteristics on an objective scale in an attempt to further define the ancestral identity of an individual. Standard craniometric measurements were taken (Howells 1973, 1995; Bass 1995; Byers 2005; Jantz & Owsley 2005) and were compared to Howells’ worldwide reference populations and the forensic data bank, using FORDISC 3.0 discriminant functions software (Jantz & Owsley 2005). When using these multivariate analyses, similarity to a reference population does not indicate a specific identity, but rather a physical affinity of the unknown cranium to the closest population within the reference collection. It should be noted that this reference collection comprises only early modern populations, and that the recording of craniometric data of Roman-period skeletons from Britain and the Mediterranean is clearly a research priority (Leach et al. 2009). The degree of similarity of the unknown cranium to the populations included inHowells’ samples is provided by the Mahalanobis Distance (MD), a value best expressing the overall similarity of the test cranium to the reference populations (Table 1; Figure 4). The closer the MD score is to 0, the more similar the unknown cranium is to the reference group. In the current study, scores over 10 were not considered significant. FORDISC 3.0 also provides calculations of ‘typicality’ and ‘posterior’ statistical probabilities; however, as the latter assume that the test cranium must belong to one of the reference populations, only the former are appropriate for the current investigation. Typicality probabilities express the likelihood of a cranium belonging to a particular group, based on its distance from that group, and the variability of all the populations tested (Jantz & Owsley 2005). They are represented as values from 0 to 1; the higher the number, the more similar are the values of the test cranium to the mean of the reference population. Typicality probabilities of less than 0.05 would indicate no affinity to the reference population (Jantz & Owsley 2005), whereas scores greater than 0.7 would suggest a strong association with the group. The results of the craniometric multivariate analysis of ST60 suggest greatest affinity with two reference populations of African-American females, particularly BF19 which comprises individuals from the nineteenth-century Terry and Hamann-Todd collections (Table 1; Figure 4). The MD is under 10 at 8.3 and the typicality probability is just below 0.7 at 0.6 (Table 1). It should be stressed that similarity to African-American reference populations does not indicate a specific identity or regional origin, but rather a physical affinity to the closest population within the reference collection. The African-American populations in Howell’s database are characterised by a much larger element of genetic admixture than the Sub-Saharan African groups and it is likely that ST60’s affinity to the African-Americans is also the result of mixed ancestry. The suggestion of mixed ancestry for ST60 is also supported by the results of the anthroposcopic assessment of morphological traits, which gave both ‘white’ and ‘black’ traits. The fact that ST60 shows only little or no affinity to any of the ‘white’ populations in Howell’s database further underlines her unusual ancestry within the north-west European context. Roman North Africa is well known for its mixed populations (e.g. Mattingly & Hitchner 1995: 171-4) reflecting Phoenician, Berber and generally Mediterranean influences, and individuals from Roman North Africa are therefore more likely to display mixed rather than strongly Sub-Saharan features. The presence of a possibly North African individual in Roman York may be at odds with popular preconceptions of a typical northern Romano-British population, but North Africans are well documented in the epigraphic record of Roman Britain (Thompson 1972; Birley 1979). However, this historical and epigraphic evidence largely predates the burial; this woman’s suggested origin would thus provide rare evidence for late Roman long-distance migration. In order to confirm whether this woman was a foreigner who may have migrated to York, oxygen and strontium isotope analysis was employed. Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
So your comparison was not too far DJ But somethings they are trying to correct somethings they will get tripped-up on and that is the wide amount of morphological traits one will find in Africa with-out a case of the individuals being "white" or "mixed" if the features are narrow not saying that she couldn't be of mixed back-ground. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes you are right about the comments on nose such as nasal spine and nasal border. There are Africans in Sub-Sahara that have nasal vaults narrower than many Europeans and nasal spines that are higher as well. Again, because craniofacial features vary so greatly among human populations and especially those of Africa, I question their claim of the lady being "mixed" unless that have some other data say skeletal measurements showing intermediate status between tropical and cold-adapted traits or something to that effect.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Not really O.T but not dealing with the Ivory Bangle Lady directly.
But it is possible that she was an Isiac worshipper as females were the ones mostly attracted to Isis but not exclusively. so she and others like her could feel right at home even if a little damp and cold at times..because the Romans did import their own Gods/Goddesses that included Mithras Jupiter,Mars and Isis and others
The Temple of Isis
A temple to the great Egyptian goddess Isis was tantalizingly suggested by the discovery of an earthenware jug at Southwark on the opposite side of the Thames from the Londinium settlement, close to the line of the Watling Street through Cantium. This object was inscribed with the words LONDINI AD FANVM ISIDIS or "From London at the temple of Isis", and has been dated to the latter half of the second century. It was not until the mid-1970's that a Roman altarstone dedicated to the goddess was finally discovered (vide RIB 39b infra) http://www.new-dimension-software.com/milano/london.php A scene like this Roman Isiac Temple in Pompaii was being played out in Londonium..quite possible that a similar scene was also being played out in York.(capitol of Britain minor)
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
somebody start the Twilight Zone music, the nuts are running everywhere. Roman British negroids...... Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Go on with yuh bad self!! Those fughking scientist don't know what they are talking about. Correct them Hammer, she is not black or mixed as they said she was. You know better.
She is a cocoa-soid!!!
BTW-in case you missed the sarcasm. Afro-Centric did NOT create this rendition.
Posted by Hammer (Member # 17003) on :
I'll be glad to correct them moron if indeed you are not jumping the gun as you usually do. So since we found some Roman coins in Kansas we can assume Caesar was fighting in America? When are you going to grow up and stop drawing major conclusions from ever piece of info that comes down the road?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Hammered, again for the nth time we are doing nothing but repeating what the author of the article as well as the author of the archaeological paper stated. Nobody is jumping the gun or jumping to conclusions, but repeating the conclusions the experts made themselves!
Now you are even less an expert than the other veterans in this forum, but we'll give YOU a chance to offer an explanation for these findings. Can you??
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Djehuti wrote:
quote:Now you are even less an expert than the other veterans in this forum, but we'll give YOU a chance to offer an explanation for these findings. Can you??
Can't wait. I need a good laugh.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
23 seems rather young and all the incisors a bit unusual to be missing from an upper class lady.
Don't know how it may apply here but some North Africans were known to remove the upper median incisors in childhood. Occasionally lower median and upper lateral incisors were also removed.
I don't know the cultural implications of incisor removal but it appears to be another factor in a possible North African origin of Ivory Bangle Lady.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Can't download w/o the password.
If it doesn't work, PM me and I'll try to email it to you.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
The webpage still says the download function is password dependent and I still get this message
"Error This file has been password protected by Apo-Init_05, please refresh the page to enter the password. A username is not needed."
But don't sweat it. Just letting you know it doesn't work.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Anymore relevant snippets from the report or any raw hard data like tables, charts, graphs, or figures, etc.?
Posted by Narmer Menes (Member # 16122) on :
Great image find Brada!
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: So your comparison was not too far DJ But somethings they are trying to correct somethings they will get tripped-up on and that is the wide amount of morphological traits one will find in Africa with-out a case of the individuals being "white" or "mixed" if the features are narrow not saying that she couldn't be of mixed back-ground.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hay Narmer,thanks man.. but the comparison was made by DJ..
quote:
Great image find Brada! Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
A Lady of York: migration, ethnicity and identity in Roman Britain S. Leach,1 H. Eckardt1, C. Chenery1,2, G. Mu ̈ldner1 & M. Lewis1 March 2010,
The remains of the ‘ivory bangle lady’ were analysed using standard methods for the assessment of ancestry in forensic anthropology (see Bass 1995; Byers 2005). During the osteological analysis it was noted that the facial characteristics of this female exhibited a mix of ‘black’ and ‘white’ ancestral traits (Figure 3). The skull exhibited a low, wide and broad nasal ridge and wide inter-orbital breadth suggestive of ‘black’ ancestry, while the nasal spine and nasal border demonstrated ‘white’ characteristics. The shape of the nasal aperture was inconclusive.
The craniomorphometric analysis suggests that she may have been of ‘mixed race’ ancestry.
The case of the ‘ivory bangle lady’ contradicts assumptions that may derive from more recent historical experience, namely that immigrants are low status and male, and that African individuals are likely to have been slaves. Instead, it is clear that both women and children moved across the Empire, often associated with the military (James 2001: 80).
Artefactual evidence also suggests that ‘the Roman north was a cosmopolitan place with a great mixing of people from all over the empire’ (Cool 2002: 42). For example, Swan (1992) argued for the presence of North Africans in York on the basis of braziers and other vessels typical of North African food-ways but made in local fabrics.
Roman North Africa is well known for its mixed populations (e.g. Mattingly & Hitchner 1995: 171-4) reflecting Phoenician, Berber and generally Mediterranean influences, and individuals from Roman North Africa are therefore more likely to display mixed rather than strongly Sub-Saharan features.
_______________________________________
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
Figure 4 shows IBL in an unique, non-overlapping cluster with two Black American females despite Berbers included in the author's definition of European.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
The first documented Black royal of Europe is the Bangle lady of Britain.Her grave indicates her high status.
.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] The first documented Black royal of Europe is the Bangle lady of Britain.Her grave indicates her high status.
Was she African, Roman or European?
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] The first documented Black royal of Europe is the Bangle lady of Britain.Her grave indicates her high status.
Was she African, Roman or European?
LOL Pathetic individual you are. lol
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] The first documented Black royal of Europe is the Bangle lady of Britain.Her grave indicates her high status.
Was she African, Roman or European?
I'm asking Clyde
She may have been one of the Black Europeans discusssed by McRitchie in his work.
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