quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Then it should be the bald headed people lol

U funny Jaime but tragic..

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 

The one whose head and body are dappled,
whose face drips honey,
innin, she
who breeds copulation,
vigor of the land,
the life of the Black Heads,
Asnan, the good bread,
bread of all the earth,
Enki placed in charge of it.

Painting from Mari North-West Sumer..no body looks bald although they could be wearing wigs..just like the Kemites

Later texts from the 1st millennium BC suggest that "Meluhha" and "Magan" were kingdoms adjacent to Egypt. Assurbanipal writes about his first march against Egypt, "In my first campaign I marched against Magan, Meluhha, Tarka, king of Egypt and Ethiopia, whom Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, the father who begot me, had defeated, and whose land he brought under his way...".

The scorching potsherds made the dust glow (?) -- the people groan. He swept the winds over the black-headed people -- the people groan. Sumer was overturned by a snare -- the people groan. It attacked (?) the Land and devoured it completely. Tears cannot influence the bitter storm -- the people groan
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.2.2...j -
translation of the text go to 192-196.
 

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Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
 
^ LOL @ those "bald" Sumerians!
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist:
Contrary to popular belief, "Black headed people" was a detonation of the Akkadians. They were called so because of their black tresses, in stark contrast of their neighborhing bald headed sumerians. It was the sumerians who labeled the akkadians "Black headed."


The Sumerians shaved their heads and their faces, while the Akkadians wore long hair and full beards and mustaches. Hence the phrase, "Black headed ones" originated in this period as a description of the Akkadians in contrast to the Sumerians. (Harper, The Biblical World, p. 290)


Source: left column

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Afroidiot - Do you have any idea how much joy I get just by showing you as the fool that you are?


The Legend of Sargon translation
22. Whatsoever king shall be exalted after me,
23. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
24. Let him rule, let him govern the black-headed peoples;
25. Mighty mountains with axes of bronze let him destroy;


(It sure doesn't sound like he is talking about himself)!!


This Black guy is Sargon - or should I say (Black skinned curly haired Caucasian is Sargon), Ha ha ha.





This Bald-headed Black guy is a Sumerian Ensi named Gudea - or should I say (Black skinned Bald-headed Caucasian is Gudea), Ha ha ha.





Another Gudea, this time with a hat



 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Afroidiot - Aren't you going to ask "So who was Sargon?"
 

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Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
......

---

quote:

---

Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

quote:

---

Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

---

Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
Afroidiot - That piece of trash was written in 1909 when ALL White people were just as ignorant as you are today - btw, did White people know that the world was round in those days?

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quote:

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But you clowns have no compunction when it comes to citing classical writers like Herodotus. HAHAHAHA!! You Afronuts are off the chain!

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:


Painting from Mari North-West Sumer..no body looks bald although they could be wearing wigs..just like the Kemites

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Posted by Recovering Afrocentrist (Member # 17311) on :
 
Damn! (RFLOL) right at the bottom. Someone aint do a teribly good job at cutting out the scene with the light sumerians. They left one in!




Now that sh*t right there is funny like a mofo!
 

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Posted by Recovering Afrocentrist (Member # 17311) on :
 
Here is a more telling depiction of the sumerians.



 

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Posted by Recovering Afrocentrist (Member # 17311) on :
 
Truth hurts





Bringing the pain



 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
You know AlTakruri, I was wondering if the guy was unpainted or color lost like the individual a little to the left of the Sphinx with brown arms and white legs but he does seems to dress a little different than the others according to Recovering A.. blow-up

Notice the frills or tassels hanging from his dress plus the cape. a foreigner maybe?? trade /tribute mission he does seem to be carrying something.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^You fuching unadulterated idiot. Those INLAID figures are a mosaic of white shell, red limestone and lapis lazuli.!!!!!!!!!

The box was completely destroyed and rebuilt by WHITE people.

here is what the figures looked like when excavated.


Knowing the history of WHITE people and BLACK artifacts, no bets will be taken as to what is real and what is WHITE created.

In any event, even someone as stupid as you must know that if the material is WHITE then the figures made of it must also be white - asshole!



 

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Posted by Recovering Afrocentrist (Member # 17311) on :
 
I think I'm going to start ignoring you Mike. It is useless to discuss this with you since any evidence I provide you will say whites tampered with it, without even giving proof.

Go fvck yourself fvckturd!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^You fuching unadulterated idiot. Those INLAID figures are a mosaic of white shell, red limestone and lapis lazuli.!!!!!!!!!

The box was completely destroyed and rebuilt by WHITE people.

here is what the figures looked like when excavated.


Knowing the history of WHITE people and BLACK artifacts, no bets will be taken as to what is real and what is WHITE created.

In any event, even someone as stupid as you must know that if the material is WHITE then the figures made of it must also be white - asshole!

---

 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^You don't provide evidence, you provide the nonsense of a desperate white boy trying to hold back the tide of Black truth.

You see the Bogus world of White fantasy; created to insulate Whites from the real world crumbling, and you don't know what to do.

You see Europe in decline, America in crisis, (there are no longer any captive lands to exploit) and all the while, the much more numerous non-white world is expanding.

I don't blame you, if I were White, I'd be shitting bricks too. So why are you here posting nonsense, shouldn't you be buying a gun and heading for the hills, like the rest of the rednecks.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
That guy's not unpainted. His flesh tint is pink
like your average garden variety "white" person.
This is the book where I saw him in detail.

Andre Parrot
Sumer
France: Libraire Gallimard, 1960
pp. 275-283

If you can get ahold of it and scan its pics I'd be
much obliged. It was part of my lost-in-shipping
library.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
You know AlTakruri, I was wondering if the guy was unpainted or color lost like the individual a little to the left of the Sphinx with brown arms and white legs but he does seems to dress a little different than the others according to Recovering A.. blow-up

Notice the frills or tassels hanging from his dress plus the cape. a foreigner maybe?? trade /tribute mission he does seem to be carrying something.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist:
Here is a more telling depiction of the sumerians.

---

quote:

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Weren't the Sumerians ruled by light skinned nobles at a certain point of time? Those images aren't being accompanied by an excerpt.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

quote:

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

---

Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

---

quote:

---

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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Unfortunatly very few bodies have been studied however I read some time ago an old report to be sure discribing a skull as the nose appearing to be extermely flat and forhead receding and jaw porthogenous..I will try to find the exact quote and by whom...but alot of scientist are looking at a Drividian connection based off language which appears clostest,the Semites who were also in the area had their language brought over from east Africa 1000snd of yrs earlier.f they were Of Drividian origins then you have a strong enough case for their blackness.

maybe they looked like the face above.
 

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Posted by Bob_01 (Member # 15687) on :
 
^ How about the current population in the regions? I mean, even populations that are known to have Persian ancestry (i.e. Marsh Arabs) would not be as pale as those pictures. The majority living in where Sumeria was founded are darker skinned people.

I would argue that the Iraqi complexion norm is more similar to Pakistanis. Populations in the South are often black, and that I'm not only talking about Africans.

PS: I was talking about the Gutians, by the way.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
osirion - I can see from your statement below that you see yourself as being scholarly and above the fray.

Quote: The fact that the Sumerians referred to themselves as Black headed is not in itself sufficient evidence to conclude anything about the origin of the peoples. Black headed does normally mean Black hair. Just like White headed in Akkadian and Ahmaric text is a reference to White hair.

What I would like to see is multiple points of evidence: skeletal and genetic evidence is usually needed in order to ascertain African heritage.

Using art work to determine ethnicity is really bad unless of course you have other supporting evidence and just are using these artifacts as a visual tool to make a point.

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?


But on the contrary, it is simple-minded and the result of White programing.

Lets look at the circumstantial evidence.

Sumer was a country about 500 miles away from Africa (the home of the Black man), and about 2,000 miles away from central Asia (the home of the White man).

Yet you ask for skeletons proving Black, but not skeletons proving White. A person of normal intelligence would by proximity assume that they were Black people - see what I mean? (BTW - Unless a Black skeleton "HAPPENS" to be that of a person with a wide-bridge nose, you can't tell Black from White, so forget that nonsense).

The picture of Sargon above, one of many that have been posted of Mesopotamia's in general, is indisputably that of a Black man - yet you say it proves nothing - ignoring evidence is not intelligent.

The one thing that you were right on, was for the wrong reason; "The Black headed ones" must be a mis-translation, because as you can see from Sargon's bust, he also was a Black person, so why would he refer to other Black people as Black.

Additionally; when people refer to themselves by color, it is to differentiate themselves from other people of a different color. Since White people would not show-up there for over another thousand years, who was there to differentiate from?


So, Cleanse your mind of the White mans propaganda and Try this on for size.

Priest Guiding a Sacrificial Bull. 2040-1870 B.C.
Fragment of a mural painting from the palace of Zimri-Lim, Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Iraq). National Museum, Aleppo, Syria


 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
osirion - To clarify the skeletal issue:

If 1,000 years from now, someone dug-up this mans skeleton, how would they know that he was Black?


 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - To clarify the skeletal issue:

If 1,000 years from now, someone dug-up this mans skeleton, how would they know that he was Black?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - I can see from your statement below that you see yourself as being scholarly and above the fray.

Quote: The fact that the Sumerians referred to themselves as Black headed is not in itself sufficient evidence to conclude anything about the origin of the peoples. Black headed does normally mean Black hair. Just like White headed in Akkadian and Ahmaric text is a reference to White hair.

What I would like to see is multiple points of evidence: skeletal and genetic evidence is usually needed in order to ascertain African heritage.

Using art work to determine ethnicity is really bad unless of course you have other supporting evidence and just are using these artifacts as a visual tool to make a point.

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?


But on the contrary, it is simple-minded and the result of White programing.

Lets look at the circumstantial evidence.

Sumer was a country about 500 miles away from Africa (the home of the Black man), and about 2,000 miles away from central Asia (the home of the White man).

Yet you ask for skeletons proving Black, but not skeletons proving White. A person of normal intelligence would by proximity assume that they were Black people - see what I mean? (BTW - Unless a Black skeleton "HAPPENS" to be that of a person with a wide-bridge nose, you can't tell Black from White, so forget that nonsense).

The picture of Sargon above, one of many that have been posted of Mesopotamia's in general, is indisputably that of a Black man - yet you say it proves nothing - ignoring evidence is not intelligent.

The one thing that you were right on, was for the wrong reason; "The Black headed ones" must be a mis-translation, because as you can see from Sargon's bust, he also was a Black person, so why would he refer to other Black people as Black.

Additionally; when people refer to themselves by color, it is to differentiate themselves from other people of a different color. Since White people would not show-up there for over another thousand years, who was there to differentiate from?


So, Cleanse your mind of the White mans propaganda and Try this on for size.

Priest Guiding a Sacrificial Bull. 2040-1870 B.C.
Fragment of a mural painting from the palace of Zimri-Lim, Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Iraq). National Museum, Aleppo, Syria

---

Look, its real simple. Find me multiple points of references such as descriptions by other groups in the area, etc. Show links between these people and Nile valley Africans. Show genetic evidence and linguistic ethnography. Its up to you to prove a positive. I do not need to prove a negative.

And don't bother me with picture spams, they mean nothing to me.

You think this is Black? It really doesn't matter what you think? The point is, how do you show a connection between Sargon and East Africa?





What is East African about Sargon?
 

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Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
 
^^Does he speak Cushitic? How do you know?
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:
^^Does he speak Cushitic? How do you know?

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Dhjeuti first showed this picture some 3 years ago. At the time it was more clear that this person was Nubian.
 

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Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
 
If it is what you say it is, then why say the man is "Cushitic"? Btw, what does "Nubian" tell us? Is there a language called "Nubian"?
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 
^ The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile, White Nile and River Atbara in what is now the Republic of Sudan. It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia, and as "Ethiopia" in ancient Greek and Greco-Roman records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan.
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 
Thus the man is Cushitic since he is both from the region of Kush as well as being of the Nubian ethnicity which is really Cushitic ethnicity.
 

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Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
 
LOL, so you mean to tell me by "Cushitic", you were referencing a contemporary Sudanese in terms of an ancient defunct moniker, and not initially implying that the man was "Cushitic", in the sense of the language phylum found in the African Horn?
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Osirion You keep mentioning Sumerians as being African Kushities which is not the case being made atlease not by me anyways..but they are Black Asians,and again in an area full of black-haired folks why they would they make special hay about black hair..now if they were in contact with liter-skinned folks they may have well made that distintion.If Altakruri is right and that's a genuine white dude then there you go.
 

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Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
 
Black-headed people : Nisi Zalmal ga-Gaddu

The french scholar : Dr Adolphe Bloch wrote an article in 1902 : " On the race which preceded the semites in Chaldea and Susiana" or " De la race noire qui précéda les sémites en Chaldée et en Susiane".You can have it on the website Persee.fr (Search Adolphe Bloch and the title in French).


He presented a new text (Hymn to the God Maroudouk) about the black-headed people 5quoted from the scholar François Lenormant):

1. " L'ensemble des hommes à la tête noire "

All the Black-headed men;

2. " Tous les êtres vivants désignés par un nom, qui existent à la surface de la terre"

All the human beings appointed by a name, who exist on the surface of the earth;

3. " Les 4 régions dans la totailté"

The four regions in their totality;

4. " Les archanges des régions du ciel et de la terre , tous tant qu'ils sont te glorifient toi "

The archangels of the regions of the sky and the earth, all of them glorify you.

Semites and Non Semites at these period had black hairs so it was only a race distiction.

Furthermore RAWLINSON and SMITH according to the cuneiform scriptures said that there was 2 races :

The Black race called : ADAMU in the scriptures;
The White race called : SARKU in the scriptures;

He further says that MEISSNER identified white skinned people under the name NARUMTIM and they were slaves purchased from the Gouti land (actual zagros region). They were certainly Aryans from the moutains.

The king Merodak or Merodach-Baladan II ( 721-710 ) called himself king of the Black headed people.

Samuel Noah Kramer in his book "The sumerians" :

"...The Sumerians characterized the Martu as of a slavish, servile disposition...The Martu, as is well known, were semites..." P 285

"...The Gutians,a ruthless barbaric horde from the mountains to the east..." P 62

People who are looking for truth should check also " L'Acropole de Suse : d'après les fouilles exécutées en 1884, 1885, 1886, sous les auspices du Musée du Louvre (1890)" by Marcel Dieulafoy. A lot of iconographic evidence of black presence in ancient Iran. They were autochtonous to Susiana :

http://www.archive.org/details/lacropoledesused03dieu


The French scholars presented evidence of the Black persians soldiers (in Darius' army)and the black persians autochtonous people. During the Sumerians period : White Semites and Aryans were savaged people. We had the same situation in Palestine (Philistines were sons of Ham), in Canaan ,Arabia, Chaldea. These Blacks educated the "semites" and "aryans" around them).

It's not from Afrocentrists it's from Dieulafoy, Rawlinson, Lenormant,Caussin de perceval, Houssay and many others Eugen Georg, Rawlinson, Higgins etc.

Marcel Dieulafoy says in this book that there was black kings in Susiana (Page 60) and they were autochtonous to that land.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Nehesy - You should not pay too much attention to books that old, (it was written at the turn of the 20th century). To do so would negate the information gleaned over the last 100 years.

In addition, it appears that the information given in the book is nonsense.

The University of Oxford maintains an Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature, and I used it to search for the words ADAMU, ADA.MU, SARKU, SAR.KU.

Those words do not exist in any Sumerian Literature thus far translated.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Of course there were blacks in this region. This history of black presence goes back to the original populations from Africa who settled the region. Of course, like elsewhere, white skinned people eventually became more predominant and migrated into the region.

The point is that the modern population of Iraq is somewhat of a Mulatto like community, which is clearly the result of the mixing of various groups over time. And there are indeed blacks or darker skinned Iraqis who are indigenous to this area. But again, Sumer and Elam were the first "civilizations" in this area and they were both in the South and both had very large numbers of black people.


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sumer-map.jpg

These places today still have relatively high numbers of blacks. Yes there were many blacks brought into Iraq during the time of Al Jahiz, but at the same token a lot of the Arabs who settled Iraq were ALSO blacks from Arabia anyway.

Racists always deal in absolutes. There are no absolutes in any population. Even in white Europe there are blacks, who obviously are the result of migrations, but this presence of blacks in Europe goes back BEYOND the slave trade. Of course bonehead racists want all black people to be absolutely limited to being subservient and enslaved, but the truth is that this is simply not the case.

As far as the black heads goes, the Sumerians are where the traditions of kingship, writing, ziggaruts and temple building trace to in the sumerian tradition. All of this is in the South. The Sumerians and Elamites had such a profound influence on Mesopotamian cultures that all later kings evoked the traditions and holy cities of the Sumerians as justification for their kingship. But the Sumerians and Elamites were constantly under attack from Northern populations from a very early period. Sargon THE FIRST was an Akkadian and the Akkadians conquered the Sumerians. It is from this conquest that you get the passages about ruling the "black heads" as a boast of Sargon and a challenge to others to follow in his footsteps. Whether he was black or white is irrelevant to the obvious political message.

Mesopotamia was not a unified civilization or nation like Egypt. It was a region bounded by rivers that was home to various city states and cultures who were constantly in conflict. Sumer and Elam eventually were destroyed and overtaken the the Akkadians, who built the first empire in that region.

quote:

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Origins

Semitic speakers seem to have already been present in Mesopotamia at the dawn of the historical record, and soon achieved preeminence with the first Dynasty of Kish and numerous localities to the north of Sumer, where rulers with Semitic names had already established themselves by the 3rd millennium BC. One of these, contemporary with the last Sumerian ruler, Lugal-Zage-Si of Uruk, was Alušaršid who subdued Elam and Barahs, according to inscriptions at Nippur.[11] thus beginning the trend towards regional empire.

Sargon has often been cited as the first ruler of a combined empire of Akkad and Sumer, although more recently discovered data suggests there had been Sumerian expansions under previous kings, including Lugal-Anne-Mundu of Adab, Eannatum of Lagash, and Lugal-Zage-Si.
[edit] Sargon and his sons

The fame of the early establishers of Semitic supremacy was far eclipsed by that of Sargon of Akkad (Sharru-kin = "legitimate king", probably a title he took on gaining power)[12] (23rd century BC), who defeated and captured Lugal-Zage-Si, conquering his empire.

The earliest records in the Akkadian language all date to the time of Sargon. Sargon was claimed to be the son of La'ibum or Itti-Bel, a humble gardener, and possibly a hierodule, prostitute, or priestess to Ishtar or Inanna.

One legend related of Sargon in neo-Assyrian times says that "My mother was a changeling (?), my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azurpiranu (the wilderness herb fields), which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose not over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was gardener Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and (fifty?) ... years I exercised kingship."[13]

Originally a cupbearer to a king of Kish with a Semitic name, Ur-Zababa, Sargon thus became a gardener, responsible for the task of clearing out irrigation canals. This gave him access to a disciplined corps of workers, who also may have served as his first soldiers. Displacing Ur-Zababa, the crown was set upon Sargon's head, and he entered upon a career of foreign conquest.[14] Four times he invaded Syria and Canaan, and he spent three years thoroughly subduing the countries of "the west" to unite them with Mesopotamia "into a single empire."

However, Sargon took this process further, conquering many of the surrounding regions to create an empire that reached as far as the Mediterranean Sea and Anatolia, and extending his rule to Elam, and as far south as Magan (Oman), an area over which he reigned for 56 years. Trade extended from the silver mines of Anatolia to the lapis lazuli mines in Afghanistan, the cedars of Lebanon and the copper of Oman. This consolidation of the city-states of Sumer and Akkad reflected the growing economic and political power of Mesopotamia. The empire's breadbasket was the rain-fed agricultural system of northern Mesopotamia and a chain of fortresses was built to control the imperial wheat production.

Images of Sargon were erected on the shores of the Mediterranean, in token of his victories, and cities and palaces were built at home with the spoils of the conquered lands. Elam and the northern part of Mesopotamia (Subartu) were also subjugated and rebellions in Sumer were put down. Contract tablets have been found dated in the years of the campaigns against Canaan and against Sarlak, king of Gutium.

Sargon, throughout his long life, showed special deference to the Sumerian deities, particularly Inanna, his patroness, and Zababa, the warrior god of Kish. He called himself "The anointed priest of Anu" and "the great ensi of Enlil" and his daughter, Enheduanna the famous poet, was installed as priestess to Nanna at the temple in Ur.

He also boasted of having subjugated the "four quarters"—the lands surrounding Akkad to the north (Subartu), the south (Sumer), the east (Elam) and the west (Martu). Some of the earliest texts credit him with rebuilding the city of Babylon (Bab-ilu) in a new location. More recently, some researchers have stated that those sources may refer to Sargon II of the Neo-Assyrian Empire rather than Sargon of Akkad. [15]

Troubles multiplied toward the end of his reign. A later Babylonian text states "In his old age, all the lands revolted against him, and they besieged him in Akkad (the city)"…but "he went forth to battle and defeated them, he knocked them over and destroyed their vast army". Also shortly after, "the Subartu (mountainous tribes of) the upper country—in their turn attacked, but they submitted to his arms, and Sargon settled their habitations, and he smote them grievously".

These difficulties broke out again in the reign of his sons. Revolts broke out during the 9-year reign of his son, Rimush, who fought hard to retain the empire—and in the fifteen year reign of Rimush's elder brother, Manishtushu. The latter king seems to have fought a sea battle against 32 kings who had gathered against him. Both appear to have been assassinated.

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quote:

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Persia as we now know it starts with the Achaemenid empire. Prior to that there was no Persia. The first civilizations of Iran were the Elamites, Sumerians and Akkadians. Over time these groups interacted with other populations including various invasions by Assyrians, Greeks and then later on Arabians, Mongols and Turks.

In general over the history of the development of the Irianian and Mesopotamian civilizations, various ethnic populations with various phenotypes were present. Among some of the earliest cultures there were undoubtedly blacks there. This includes the early Elamites and the early city states of Sumer. The Elamites are seen in the famous reliefs from Persia as black men in colorful dress. Both Eridu and Elam were in Southern Iraq and Southern Iran, near the Persian gulf.

This is one of the most ancient routes of migration from Africa into Iran and Mesopotamia and undoubtedly darker skinned people have always been there. This area is STILL populated by various darker skinned elements in those populations, even though some are more recent African migrants, others are more ancient AfroAsiatic groups and other native groups that have always been there. This area has been a cross roads of ancient Afro-Semitic and Indo-Iranian populations along with ancient northern Iranian and Mesopotamian cultures. These cultures actively traded with the Indus Valley and are said to share linguistic similarities to the ancient languages of India. To the South and West of Iran are still pockets of darker skinned IndoIranian type populations. There are also places called little India in this region as well.

It is hard to make clear distinctions between Elamite, Sumerian and later Akkadian cultures because all three were constantly in conflict.
Suffice to say various groups and ethnic types were present in this area from a very early period and that undoubtedly includes blacks.

Here are some key sites:

Eridu:

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Eridu is an ancient city in what is now Tell Abu Shahrain, in Iraq. Eridu was the earliest city in southern Mesopotamia, founded c. 5400 BCE. Located 12 km southwest of Ur, Eridu was the southernmost of a conglomeration of Sumerian cities that grew about temples, almost in sight of one another. In Sumerian mythology, Eridu was founded by the Sumerian deity Enki, later known by the Akkadians as Ea.

In the Sumerian king list, Eridu is named as the city of the first kings. The kinglist continues:

In Eridu, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alalngar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridu fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira.

The king list gave particularly long rules to the kings who ruled before a great flood occurred, and shows how the center of power progressively moved from the south to the north of the country.

Adapa U-an, elsewhere called the first man, was a half-god, half-man culture hero, called by the title Abgallu (ab=water, gal=big, lu=man) of Eridu. He was considered to have brought civilization to the city from Dilmun (probably Bahrain), and he served Alulim.

In Sumerian mythology, Eridu was the home of the Abzu temple of the god Enki, the Sumerian counterpart of the Akkadian water-god Ea. Like all the Sumerian and Babylonian gods, Enki/Ea began as a local god, who came to share, according to the later cosmology, with Anu and Enlil, the rule of the cosmos. His kingdom was the waters that surrounded the world and lay below it (Sumerian ab=water; zu=far).

The stories of Inanna, goddess of Uruk, describe how she had to go to Eridu in order to receive the gifts of civilization. At first Enki, the god of Eridu attempted to retrieve these sources of his power, but later willingly accepted that Uruk now was the centre of the land. This seems to be a mythical reference to the transfer of power northward, mentioned above.

Babylonian texts also talk of the creation of Eridu by the god Marduk as the first city, "the holy city, the dwelling of their [the other gods] delight".

It can very well be that Eridu is linked to the Annunaki. In the court of Assyria, special physicians trained in the ancient lore of Eridu, far to the south, foretold the course of sickness from signs and portents on the patient's body, and offered the appropriate incantations and magical resources as cures.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eridu

Hence many developments in Sumerian culture can be linked to movements from the South. However, there were also cultural elements from the North as well. But kingship and traditions related to it stem from the South.

Sargon of Akkad the Akkadian who conquered Sumer:

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A Neo-Assyrian text from the seventh century BC purporting to be Sargon's autobiography asserts that the great king was the illegitimate son of a priestess. In the Neo-Assyrian account Sargon's birth and his early childhood are described thus:
“ My mother was a high priestess, my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and […] years I exercised kingship.[15] ”

The image of Sargon as a castaway set adrift on a river resembles the better-known birth narrative of Moses. Scholars such as Joseph Campbell and Otto Rank have compared the 7th century BC Sargon account with the obscure births of other heroic figures from history and mythology, including Karna, Oedipus, Paris, Telephus, Semiramis, Perseus, Romulus, Gilgamesh, Cyrus, Jesus, and others.

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Sargon died, according to the short chronology, around 2215 BC. His empire immediately revolted upon hearing of the king's death. Most of the revolts were put down by his son and successor Rimush, who reigned for nine years and was followed by another of Sargon's sons, Manishtushu (who reigned for 15 years).[34] Sargon was regarded as a model by Mesopotamian kings for some two millennia after his death. The Assyrian and Babylonian kings who based their empires in Mesopotamia saw themselves as the heirs of Sargon's empire. Kings such as Nabonidus (r. 556–539 BC) showed great interest in the history of the Sargonid dynasty, and even conducted excavations of Sargon's palaces and those of his successors.[35] Indeed, such later rulers may have been inspired by the king's conquests to embark on their own campaigns throughout the Middle East. The Neo-Assyrian Sargon text challenges his successors thus:
The black-headed peoples [Sumerians] I ruled, I governed; mighty mountains with axes of bronze I destroyed. I ascended the upper mountains; I burst through the lower mountains. The country of the sea I besieged three times; Dilmun I captured. Unto the great Dur-ilu I went up, I ... I altered ... Whatsoever king shall be exalted after me, ... Let him rule, let him govern the black-headed peoples; mighty mountains with axes of bronze let him destroy; let him ascend the upper mountains, let him break through the lower mountains; the country of the sea let him besiege three times; Dilmun let him capture; To great Dur-ilu let him go up.[36]

Another source attributed to Sargon the challenge "now, any king who wants to call himself my equal, wherever I went [conquered], let him go.

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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad

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Originally posted by Mike111:
alTakruri - I have been unable to authenticate the mural above, it looks like a modern repaint or copy, so I thought that I would check it out. You say that it is in Andre Parrot's book "Sumer". And it might well be, but it must have a home in a museum or collection somewhere. Would you please say where.

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Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

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Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

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The fact that the Sumerians referred to themselves as Black headed is not in itself sufficient evidence to conclude anything about the origin of the peoples. Black headed does normally mean Black hair. Just like White headed in Akkadian and Ahmaric text is a reference to White hair.

What I would like to see is multiple points of evidence: skeletal and genetic evidence is usually needed in order to ascertain African heritage.

Using art work to determine ethnicity is really bad unless of course you have other supporting evidence and just are using these artifacts as a visual tool to make a point.

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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Originally posted by osirion:
^ The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile, White Nile and River Atbara in what is now the Republic of Sudan. It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia, and as "Ethiopia" in ancient Greek and Greco-Roman records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan.

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Originally posted by Doug M:


... there are indeed blacks or darker skinned Iraqis who are indigenous to this area. But again, Sumer and Elam were the first "civilizations" in this area and they were both in the South and both had very large numbers of black people.


These places today still have relatively high numbers of blacks. Yes there were many blacks brought into Iraq during the time of Al Jahiz, but at the same token a lot of the Arabs who settled Iraq were ALSO blacks from Arabia anyway.

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quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - To clarify the skeletal issue:

If 1,000 years from now, someone dug-up this mans skeleton, how would they know that he was Black?

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That man is Cushitic and would likely match other people of East African origin. You would likely think he was Egyptian or Nubian but there is more than just the skull in terms of skeletal remains.

My point was that the term "Black head" means little to me. You need multiple points of evidence. Without sufficient evidence I would stick with the modern population as being the same as that of ancient times. This is quite a bit different than what we see at Jericho in Palestine.

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Originally posted by Bob_01:

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - To clarify the skeletal issue:

If 1,000 years from now, someone dug-up this mans skeleton, how would they know that he was Black?

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That man is Cushitic and would likely match other people of East African origin. You would likely think he was Egyptian or Nubian but there is more than just the skull in terms of skeletal remains.

My point was that the term "Black head" means little to me. You need multiple points of evidence. Without sufficient evidence I would stick with the modern population as being the same as that of ancient times. This is quite a bit different than what we see at Jericho in Palestine.

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There isn't any evidence of these individuals being black skinned? How about the fact that the indigenous Neolithic population present in the region maintained an "exaggerated" (i.e. "West") African form? That development would suggest that the population at hand were at least tropical adapted peoples. The cold adapted counterparts with pale skin developed in North Asia, possibly well beyond Central Asia since Europeans are native to Northern Europe.

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(Stringer and Gamble, 1993, p. 92).

crural index = Tibia/Femur length
modern peoples 79% in Lapps
86% in Black African groups
Group crural Mean annual temp C
index

average Neanderthal 79% ?

Modern peoples
Lapps 79% .25
modern Inuit 81.5% 4
Belgium 82.5% 10
S.African white 83.2% 8.5
New MexicoIndian 84.6% 14
S.African black 86.4% 17
Arizona Indian 85.5% 18
Melanesian 84.8% 23
Pygmy 85.1% 24.2
Egyptian 84.9% 26.1
American Black 85.25% 26

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Yes there were many blacks brought into Iraq during the time of Al Jahiz

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
But here's the rub, it wasn't only citizens of
ancient Sudan who were called either Kushites
or Aethiopians. We find either term applied to
non-Sudanis in an expanse as wide as what's now
Morocco to what's now India.

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
^ The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile, White Nile and River Atbara in what is now the Republic of Sudan. It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia, and as "Ethiopia" in ancient Greek and Greco-Roman records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan.

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The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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Originally posted by Mike111:
Nice work Brada-Anansi, but you ought to know that when someone asks you to prove the obvious, then they have a different agenda.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bob_01:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
Nice work Brada-Anansi, but you ought to know that when someone asks you to prove the obvious, then they have a different agenda.

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This is pretty obvious. The Sumerians couldn't have been a pale-skinned people, because such people are not native to the Middle East. There is no evidence behind that assumption.

Eurocentrists need to back up their claims and I'm certain with the methodology present, we'd see it pointing towards a Black Asiatic population. The initial population were tropically adapted, and produced an offspring with West Africans that ultimately looked "West African". The development of aquiline traits makes sense, but pale skin suddenly appearing (i.e. fourth global junction) is just Eurocentric fantasy.

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Produced offspring with West Africans???? What are you talking about? There were no West Africans in Mesopotamia. They were simply African derived populations that have inhabited these areas which are part of the ancient route for early humans migrating out of Africa into the region of Mesopotamia and the Iranian plateau, Central/South Asia and India.

And they are still there:




http://www.payvand.com/news/08/sep/1014.html


http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcmorte/2120422251/in/set-72157594525197660/

Bandar-e-Abbas Iran (Persian Gulf)



http://www.cqj.dk/photo-iran.htm


http://masters-of-light.com/index.php?id=34

Minab Southern Iran:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorosh/369228594/in/set-72157594515848237/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorosh/369228778/in/set-72157594515848237/


This has been posted before:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001680;p=2
 

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Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on :
 
These "old" books are very interesting because :

- The iconographic evidence;
- Their scholarship;

I read Samuel Kramer, Jean Bottéro ,Rawlinson, Sayce (who gave the translation ADAMU, with Rawlinson and Smith), Budge (Babylonian history and life), and more recently Richard James Fisher.

In Richard James Fisher you can find the cuneiform name "ADAMU" explained in his book : "Historical genesis : From Adam to Abraham" 2008.

Many Assyrian kings bore the name "ADAMU", which is very common among the west africans specially within the Haussas. Some scholars like Flora Shaw presented important facts when she says that Haussas scriptures revealed that they originated from assyria ( Tropical dependency : P 94 et 95);

You can't find everything on the net. Sometimes you should check books as well.

George Smith has showed that they were 2 races in chaldea :

http://www.archive.org/details/thechaldeanaccou00smituoft

"The Chaldean account of Genesis, containing the description of the creation, the fall of man, the deluge, the tower of Babel, the times of the patriarchs, and Nimrod; Babylonian fables, and legends of the gods; from the cuneiform inscriptions (1876)"


He says on page 86 : " It has already been pointed out by Sir Henry Rawlinson that the babylonians recognized two principal races : The Adamu, or Dark race, and the Sarku, or light race… It appears incidentally from the fragments of inscriprions that it was the race of Adam, or the dark race, which was believed to have fallen… "

I always cross "old" books with "new" ones.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
You can find references to Adamu and Sumerian mythology in various books through a google search for "adumu sumerian". I found this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=wqaH5kj2gCAC&pg=PR32&lpg=PR32&dq=adamu+sumerian&source=bl&ots=pDJi6rdw17&sig=DDbRYzIcpP8AWAxSBS6Redc_LqQ&hl=en&ei=DmU-S9vzJ8y1lAfegsTvDw&sa=X&oi=bo ok_result&ct=result&resnum=71&ved=0COsBEOgBMEY#v=onepage&q=adamu&f=false

Of course it is full of the white Europeans own racial dogma, but the mythology is there.

And another reference:

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In Sumerian and Babylonian mythology, Adamu was the first man. The gods tricked Adamu and his descendants out of immortality - not wanting man to be immortal like the gods - by telling him that the magic food of eternal life was poisonous to him, and as such Adamu didn't eat it and so didn't become immortal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob_01:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
Nice work Brada-Anansi, but you ought to know that when someone asks you to prove the obvious, then they have a different agenda.

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This is pretty obvious. The Sumerians couldn't have been a pale-skinned people, because such people are not native to the Middle East. There is no evidence behind that assumption.

Eurocentrists need to back up their claims and I'm certain with the methodology present, we'd see it pointing towards a Black Asiatic population. The initial population were tropically adapted, and produced an offspring with West Africans that ultimately looked "West African". The development of aquiline traits makes sense, but pale skin suddenly appearing (i.e. fourth global junction) is just Eurocentric fantasy.

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Produced offspring with West Africans???? What are you talking about? There were no West Africans in Mesopotamia. They were simply African derived populations that have inhabited these areas which are part of the ancient route for early humans migrating out of Africa into the region of Mesopotamia and the Iranian plateau, Central/South Asia and India.

And they are still there:




http://www.payvand.com/news/08/sep/1014.html


http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcmorte/2120422251/in/set-72157594525197660/

Bandar-e-Abbas Iran (Persian Gulf)



http://www.cqj.dk/photo-iran.htm


http://masters-of-light.com/index.php?id=34

Minab Southern Iran:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorosh/369228594/in/set-72157594515848237/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorosh/369228778/in/set-72157594515848237/


This has been posted before:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001680;p=2

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

quote:

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The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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As promised I'd fined the Source,like I said it's an old one but this is where they were headed.

1926 and 1928.
Field Museum and Oxford University conducted extentive join excavations in northern Sumer. at the digs conclusion they stated that.

The earliest historical crania (hyperdolichocephalic) are from Jamdet Nasr.
18 miles northeast of Kish and those from the Y trenches at Kish...The forehead is retreating ,the brow-ridges are always prominent,and the cheek bones rather wide.The nose is broad,in some cases inclining to extreme platyrrhine,alhough the face has seldom survived.This is the type described by Surgi,Giuffrida and Fleure and named the "Euroafrican Type.

In an additional publication on the excavations at Kish,TK Penniman list three distinct crainial groups:

First,there is the Eurafrican..In ancient times,the type was found in Mesopotamia and Egypt,and may be compared with the Combe Capelle skull.It is possibly identical to men who lived in the high desert west of the Nile in Paleaolithic times,and is of the type seen in the familiar portrait of statues of Rameses II...secondly the Mediterranean type,whose varients occur all the way from Java through India and Mesopotamia,and on both sides of the Mediterranean.These people are of midum stature,with complexion and hair of the Eurafrican,to which they are allied,dark eyes,and oval faces.They have small i'll-filled dilichocephalic skulls.with brow ridges poorly developed or absent,bulging occuiputs,orbits usually horizonal ellipese,broad noses,rather feable jaws,and slight sinewy bodies.In ancient times their distrubition is was the same as today.

Thirdly,there is the Armenoid type,whose relatives are found all over the Eurasitic plateau and mountains from the Persian gulf and Asia Minor.
African Presence In Early Asia.

Like I said an old study so alot of out dated race termology..but hay!!that was the 1920ts

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Or again, are you really try to simply argue for facial form similarities? Australians look like Black Africans too.
Personally I would focus more on Africa rather than these excursions into speculations.

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Yes Iam arguing for facial form similarities..for the purpose of this thread that they were blacks and self-discribed themself as such.

One can focus on Africa like I myself like to do, but I find of interest to find out who her military and commericial partners were...and did they influence each other.

From Sumer and from a later date from Susa

Specifications, courtesy of the Metropolitan Museum: Egyptianizing figures on either side of a tree with a winged disk, 8th–7th century B.C Neo-Assyrian Mesopotamia, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu) Ivory; H. 4.88 in. (12.4 cm) Rogers Fund, 1962 (62.269.3
Thank to the explorer's blog exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/10/ancient...
the above is just the winged disc motif alone which carried religious significance
So in a very real sense influence was being carried out from a very early era.
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Well the thread header was... The origin of the term Black headed people. the thread creator was claiming Black should not be used to discribed them even though they discribed themselves as such, were they migrants from the Nile valley? or other parts of Africa? some here would say yes others would say no,But from my understanding they were connected to both but may have originally came from somewhere on the Indian sub-continent,but had relations with Megan and Meluhha (Kemet and Kush)that perked my interest..along with the bibical connection through Nimrod.

Osirion

quote:

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Or again, are you really try to simply argue for facial form similarities? Australians look like Black Africans too.
Personally I would focus more on Africa rather than these excursions into speculations.

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Yes Iam arguing for facial form similarities..for the purpose of this thread that they were blacks and self-discribed themself as such.

One can focus on Africa like I myself like to do, but I find of interest to find out who her military and commericial partners were...and did they influence each other.

From Sumer and from a later date from Susa

Specifications, courtesy of the Metropolitan Museum: Egyptianizing figures on either side of a tree with a winged disk, 8th–7th century B.C Neo-Assyrian Mesopotamia, Nimrud (ancient Kalhu) Ivory; H. 4.88 in. (12.4 cm) Rogers Fund, 1962 (62.269.3
Thank to the explorer's blog exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/10/ancient...
the above is just the winged disc motif alone which carried religious significance
So in a very real sense influence was being carried out from a very early era.

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I have never spent anytime studying Black Asiatics . I am Afrocentric and don't really think much about non-African Black people. I think that is more of DougM thing. He is more of a Pan-Black-centric person.

I think once you get into Pan-Black topic it some how gets associated with Afro-centric people like me in a negative way. Even to the point that I get smeared as being White-centric or some such none-sense. I just simply haven't seen anything that connects Summeria to Kush. I see Kush as the origin of Afro-Asiatic culture which is beyond the borders of Africa. However, was Summeria within that sphere? Summeria appears to be clearly Asiatic that it is easily recognizable to see the origin of the modern Asiatic culture in Summerian artifacts.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
You knuckle head;
They are ALL related!!!

This is Anatolia (Turkey)
Note the winged disk.


Sakçagözü

Ruins of the Late Hittite city state is located about 50 km west of Gaziantep. The original name of the city is not known. The site was first discovered in 1883 and The ruins of a palace structure covers a large area. The orhostats and statues date from 8th century BCE.


(Of course it has been proven that there was never a people or Empire called Hittite, rather it was the Hatti, but Whites persist).



 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike111:
You knuckle head;
They are ALL related!!!

This is Anatolia (Turkey)
Note the winged disk.


Sakçagözü

Ruins of the Late Hittite city state is located about 50 km west of Gaziantep. The original name of the city is not known. The site was first discovered in 1883 and The ruins of a palace structure covers a large area. The orhostats and statues date from 8th century BCE.


(Of course it has been proven that there was never a people or Empire called Hittite, rather it was the Hatti, but Whites persist).

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Again, basic subjective artwork is the only evidence you provide. Weak.
 

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
osirion - When you ask a question, I assume that there is a lurker with the same question in mind, So I answer it.

For some reason you seem to think that I give a sh1t whither or not you agree. I don't, but if you ask another half-way intelligent question, then I will answer it.
 

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Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
 
Osirion I am suprised you though that all we do is supply pretty pictures how can you fail to grasped the significance of the above...being that you are a veteran E/S poster? the winged disked motif has deep religious significance to those people

Winged Solar Disk
This is a form that the god Horus Behudety (Horus of Edfu) takes in his battles with Seth. The god Thoth used his magic to turn Horus into a sun-disk with splendid outstretched wings. The goddesses Nekhbet and Uazet in the form of uraeus snakes joined him at his side.


Shen
A loop of rope that has no beginning and no end, it symbolized eternity. The sun disk is often depicted in the center of it. The shen also seems to be a symbol of protection. It is often seen being clutched by deities in bird form, Horus the falcon, Mut the vulture. Hovering over Pharaohs head with their wings outstretched in a gesture of protection. The word shen comes from the word "shenu" which means "encircle," and in its elongated form became the cartouche which surrounded the king's name.



The vulture Nekhbet who is the protector of Upper Kemet
Don't you get it these rulers whether Sumerians or Babaylonians Persians etc wanted to be like Uppper Kemetian Rulers,they are saying we want to be thought of as being devine and powerful as those guys,dispite having our own traditions ...they set the standard.
 

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