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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Then it should be the bald headed people lol

U funny Jaime but tragic..

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Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist:
Contrary to popular belief, "Black headed people" was a detonation of the Akkadians. They were called so because of their black tresses, in stark contrast of their neighborhing bald headed sumerians. It was the sumerians who labeled the akkadians "Black headed."


The Sumerians shaved their heads and their faces, while the Akkadians wore long hair and full beards and mustaches. Hence the phrase, "Black headed ones" originated in this period as a description of the Akkadians in contrast to the Sumerians. (Harper, The Biblical World, p. 290)


Source: left column

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Originally posted by osirion:
......

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Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

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Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

quote:

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

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Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

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Originally posted by Mike111:
Afroidiot - That piece of trash was written in 1909 when ALL White people were just as ignorant as you are today - btw, did White people know that the world was round in those days?

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But you clowns have no compunction when it comes to citing classical writers like Herodotus. HAHAHAHA!! You Afronuts are off the chain!

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Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:


Painting from Mari North-West Sumer..no body looks bald although they could be wearing wigs..just like the Kemites

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mike111:
^You fuching unadulterated idiot. Those INLAID figures are a mosaic of white shell, red limestone and lapis lazuli.!!!!!!!!!

The box was completely destroyed and rebuilt by WHITE people.

here is what the figures looked like when excavated.


Knowing the history of WHITE people and BLACK artifacts, no bets will be taken as to what is real and what is WHITE created.

In any event, even someone as stupid as you must know that if the material is WHITE then the figures made of it must also be white - asshole!

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That guy's not unpainted. His flesh tint is pink
like your average garden variety "white" person.
This is the book where I saw him in detail.

Andre Parrot
Sumer
France: Libraire Gallimard, 1960
pp. 275-283

If you can get ahold of it and scan its pics I'd be
much obliged. It was part of my lost-in-shipping
library.

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
You know AlTakruri, I was wondering if the guy was unpainted or color lost like the individual a little to the left of the Sphinx with brown arms and white legs but he does seems to dress a little different than the others according to Recovering A.. blow-up

Notice the frills or tassels hanging from his dress plus the cape. a foreigner maybe?? trade /tribute mission he does seem to be carrying something.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist:
Here is a more telling depiction of the sumerians.

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Weren't the Sumerians ruled by light skinned nobles at a certain point of time? Those images aren't being accompanied by an excerpt.

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Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

quote:

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

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Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

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Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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Unfortunatly very few bodies have been studied however I read some time ago an old report to be sure discribing a skull as the nose appearing to be extermely flat and forhead receding and jaw porthogenous..I will try to find the exact quote and by whom...but alot of scientist are looking at a Drividian connection based off language which appears clostest,the Semites who were also in the area had their language brought over from east Africa 1000snd of yrs earlier.f they were Of Drividian origins then you have a strong enough case for their blackness.

maybe they looked like the face above.

Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - To clarify the skeletal issue:

If 1,000 years from now, someone dug-up this mans skeleton, how would they know that he was Black?

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Originally posted by Mike111:
osirion - I can see from your statement below that you see yourself as being scholarly and above the fray.

Quote: The fact that the Sumerians referred to themselves as Black headed is not in itself sufficient evidence to conclude anything about the origin of the peoples. Black headed does normally mean Black hair. Just like White headed in Akkadian and Ahmaric text is a reference to White hair.

What I would like to see is multiple points of evidence: skeletal and genetic evidence is usually needed in order to ascertain African heritage.

Using art work to determine ethnicity is really bad unless of course you have other supporting evidence and just are using these artifacts as a visual tool to make a point.

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?


But on the contrary, it is simple-minded and the result of White programing.

Lets look at the circumstantial evidence.

Sumer was a country about 500 miles away from Africa (the home of the Black man), and about 2,000 miles away from central Asia (the home of the White man).

Yet you ask for skeletons proving Black, but not skeletons proving White. A person of normal intelligence would by proximity assume that they were Black people - see what I mean? (BTW - Unless a Black skeleton "HAPPENS" to be that of a person with a wide-bridge nose, you can't tell Black from White, so forget that nonsense).

The picture of Sargon above, one of many that have been posted of Mesopotamia's in general, is indisputably that of a Black man - yet you say it proves nothing - ignoring evidence is not intelligent.

The one thing that you were right on, was for the wrong reason; "The Black headed ones" must be a mis-translation, because as you can see from Sargon's bust, he also was a Black person, so why would he refer to other Black people as Black.

Additionally; when people refer to themselves by color, it is to differentiate themselves from other people of a different color. Since White people would not show-up there for over another thousand years, who was there to differentiate from?


So, Cleanse your mind of the White mans propaganda and Try this on for size.

Priest Guiding a Sacrificial Bull. 2040-1870 B.C.
Fragment of a mural painting from the palace of Zimri-Lim, Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Iraq). National Museum, Aleppo, Syria

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Look, its real simple. Find me multiple points of references such as descriptions by other groups in the area, etc. Show links between these people and Nile valley Africans. Show genetic evidence and linguistic ethnography. Its up to you to prove a positive. I do not need to prove a negative.

And don't bother me with picture spams, they mean nothing to me.

You think this is Black? It really doesn't matter what you think? The point is, how do you show a connection between Sargon and East Africa?





What is East African about Sargon?

Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by The Explorer:
^^Does he speak Cushitic? How do you know?

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Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Of course there were blacks in this region. This history of black presence goes back to the original populations from Africa who settled the region. Of course, like elsewhere, white skinned people eventually became more predominant and migrated into the region.

The point is that the modern population of Iraq is somewhat of a Mulatto like community, which is clearly the result of the mixing of various groups over time. And there are indeed blacks or darker skinned Iraqis who are indigenous to this area. But again, Sumer and Elam were the first "civilizations" in this area and they were both in the South and both had very large numbers of black people.


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sumer-map.jpg

These places today still have relatively high numbers of blacks. Yes there were many blacks brought into Iraq during the time of Al Jahiz, but at the same token a lot of the Arabs who settled Iraq were ALSO blacks from Arabia anyway.

Racists always deal in absolutes. There are no absolutes in any population. Even in white Europe there are blacks, who obviously are the result of migrations, but this presence of blacks in Europe goes back BEYOND the slave trade. Of course bonehead racists want all black people to be absolutely limited to being subservient and enslaved, but the truth is that this is simply not the case.

As far as the black heads goes, the Sumerians are where the traditions of kingship, writing, ziggaruts and temple building trace to in the sumerian tradition. All of this is in the South. The Sumerians and Elamites had such a profound influence on Mesopotamian cultures that all later kings evoked the traditions and holy cities of the Sumerians as justification for their kingship. But the Sumerians and Elamites were constantly under attack from Northern populations from a very early period. Sargon THE FIRST was an Akkadian and the Akkadians conquered the Sumerians. It is from this conquest that you get the passages about ruling the "black heads" as a boast of Sargon and a challenge to others to follow in his footsteps. Whether he was black or white is irrelevant to the obvious political message.

Mesopotamia was not a unified civilization or nation like Egypt. It was a region bounded by rivers that was home to various city states and cultures who were constantly in conflict. Sumer and Elam eventually were destroyed and overtaken the the Akkadians, who built the first empire in that region.

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Origins

Semitic speakers seem to have already been present in Mesopotamia at the dawn of the historical record, and soon achieved preeminence with the first Dynasty of Kish and numerous localities to the north of Sumer, where rulers with Semitic names had already established themselves by the 3rd millennium BC. One of these, contemporary with the last Sumerian ruler, Lugal-Zage-Si of Uruk, was Alušaršid who subdued Elam and Barahs, according to inscriptions at Nippur.[11] thus beginning the trend towards regional empire.

Sargon has often been cited as the first ruler of a combined empire of Akkad and Sumer, although more recently discovered data suggests there had been Sumerian expansions under previous kings, including Lugal-Anne-Mundu of Adab, Eannatum of Lagash, and Lugal-Zage-Si.
[edit] Sargon and his sons

The fame of the early establishers of Semitic supremacy was far eclipsed by that of Sargon of Akkad (Sharru-kin = "legitimate king", probably a title he took on gaining power)[12] (23rd century BC), who defeated and captured Lugal-Zage-Si, conquering his empire.

The earliest records in the Akkadian language all date to the time of Sargon. Sargon was claimed to be the son of La'ibum or Itti-Bel, a humble gardener, and possibly a hierodule, prostitute, or priestess to Ishtar or Inanna.

One legend related of Sargon in neo-Assyrian times says that "My mother was a changeling (?), my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azurpiranu (the wilderness herb fields), which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose not over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was gardener Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and (fifty?) ... years I exercised kingship."[13]

Originally a cupbearer to a king of Kish with a Semitic name, Ur-Zababa, Sargon thus became a gardener, responsible for the task of clearing out irrigation canals. This gave him access to a disciplined corps of workers, who also may have served as his first soldiers. Displacing Ur-Zababa, the crown was set upon Sargon's head, and he entered upon a career of foreign conquest.[14] Four times he invaded Syria and Canaan, and he spent three years thoroughly subduing the countries of "the west" to unite them with Mesopotamia "into a single empire."

However, Sargon took this process further, conquering many of the surrounding regions to create an empire that reached as far as the Mediterranean Sea and Anatolia, and extending his rule to Elam, and as far south as Magan (Oman), an area over which he reigned for 56 years. Trade extended from the silver mines of Anatolia to the lapis lazuli mines in Afghanistan, the cedars of Lebanon and the copper of Oman. This consolidation of the city-states of Sumer and Akkad reflected the growing economic and political power of Mesopotamia. The empire's breadbasket was the rain-fed agricultural system of northern Mesopotamia and a chain of fortresses was built to control the imperial wheat production.

Images of Sargon were erected on the shores of the Mediterranean, in token of his victories, and cities and palaces were built at home with the spoils of the conquered lands. Elam and the northern part of Mesopotamia (Subartu) were also subjugated and rebellions in Sumer were put down. Contract tablets have been found dated in the years of the campaigns against Canaan and against Sarlak, king of Gutium.

Sargon, throughout his long life, showed special deference to the Sumerian deities, particularly Inanna, his patroness, and Zababa, the warrior god of Kish. He called himself "The anointed priest of Anu" and "the great ensi of Enlil" and his daughter, Enheduanna the famous poet, was installed as priestess to Nanna at the temple in Ur.

He also boasted of having subjugated the "four quarters"—the lands surrounding Akkad to the north (Subartu), the south (Sumer), the east (Elam) and the west (Martu). Some of the earliest texts credit him with rebuilding the city of Babylon (Bab-ilu) in a new location. More recently, some researchers have stated that those sources may refer to Sargon II of the Neo-Assyrian Empire rather than Sargon of Akkad. [15]

Troubles multiplied toward the end of his reign. A later Babylonian text states "In his old age, all the lands revolted against him, and they besieged him in Akkad (the city)"…but "he went forth to battle and defeated them, he knocked them over and destroyed their vast army". Also shortly after, "the Subartu (mountainous tribes of) the upper country—in their turn attacked, but they submitted to his arms, and Sargon settled their habitations, and he smote them grievously".

These difficulties broke out again in the reign of his sons. Revolts broke out during the 9-year reign of his son, Rimush, who fought hard to retain the empire—and in the fifteen year reign of Rimush's elder brother, Manishtushu. The latter king seems to have fought a sea battle against 32 kings who had gathered against him. Both appear to have been assassinated.

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Persia as we now know it starts with the Achaemenid empire. Prior to that there was no Persia. The first civilizations of Iran were the Elamites, Sumerians and Akkadians. Over time these groups interacted with other populations including various invasions by Assyrians, Greeks and then later on Arabians, Mongols and Turks.

In general over the history of the development of the Irianian and Mesopotamian civilizations, various ethnic populations with various phenotypes were present. Among some of the earliest cultures there were undoubtedly blacks there. This includes the early Elamites and the early city states of Sumer. The Elamites are seen in the famous reliefs from Persia as black men in colorful dress. Both Eridu and Elam were in Southern Iraq and Southern Iran, near the Persian gulf.

This is one of the most ancient routes of migration from Africa into Iran and Mesopotamia and undoubtedly darker skinned people have always been there. This area is STILL populated by various darker skinned elements in those populations, even though some are more recent African migrants, others are more ancient AfroAsiatic groups and other native groups that have always been there. This area has been a cross roads of ancient Afro-Semitic and Indo-Iranian populations along with ancient northern Iranian and Mesopotamian cultures. These cultures actively traded with the Indus Valley and are said to share linguistic similarities to the ancient languages of India. To the South and West of Iran are still pockets of darker skinned IndoIranian type populations. There are also places called little India in this region as well.

It is hard to make clear distinctions between Elamite, Sumerian and later Akkadian cultures because all three were constantly in conflict.
Suffice to say various groups and ethnic types were present in this area from a very early period and that undoubtedly includes blacks.

Here are some key sites:

Eridu:

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Eridu is an ancient city in what is now Tell Abu Shahrain, in Iraq. Eridu was the earliest city in southern Mesopotamia, founded c. 5400 BCE. Located 12 km southwest of Ur, Eridu was the southernmost of a conglomeration of Sumerian cities that grew about temples, almost in sight of one another. In Sumerian mythology, Eridu was founded by the Sumerian deity Enki, later known by the Akkadians as Ea.

In the Sumerian king list, Eridu is named as the city of the first kings. The kinglist continues:

In Eridu, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alalngar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridu fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira.

The king list gave particularly long rules to the kings who ruled before a great flood occurred, and shows how the center of power progressively moved from the south to the north of the country.

Adapa U-an, elsewhere called the first man, was a half-god, half-man culture hero, called by the title Abgallu (ab=water, gal=big, lu=man) of Eridu. He was considered to have brought civilization to the city from Dilmun (probably Bahrain), and he served Alulim.

In Sumerian mythology, Eridu was the home of the Abzu temple of the god Enki, the Sumerian counterpart of the Akkadian water-god Ea. Like all the Sumerian and Babylonian gods, Enki/Ea began as a local god, who came to share, according to the later cosmology, with Anu and Enlil, the rule of the cosmos. His kingdom was the waters that surrounded the world and lay below it (Sumerian ab=water; zu=far).

The stories of Inanna, goddess of Uruk, describe how she had to go to Eridu in order to receive the gifts of civilization. At first Enki, the god of Eridu attempted to retrieve these sources of his power, but later willingly accepted that Uruk now was the centre of the land. This seems to be a mythical reference to the transfer of power northward, mentioned above.

Babylonian texts also talk of the creation of Eridu by the god Marduk as the first city, "the holy city, the dwelling of their [the other gods] delight".

It can very well be that Eridu is linked to the Annunaki. In the court of Assyria, special physicians trained in the ancient lore of Eridu, far to the south, foretold the course of sickness from signs and portents on the patient's body, and offered the appropriate incantations and magical resources as cures.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eridu

Hence many developments in Sumerian culture can be linked to movements from the South. However, there were also cultural elements from the North as well. But kingship and traditions related to it stem from the South.

Sargon of Akkad the Akkadian who conquered Sumer:

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A Neo-Assyrian text from the seventh century BC purporting to be Sargon's autobiography asserts that the great king was the illegitimate son of a priestess. In the Neo-Assyrian account Sargon's birth and his early childhood are described thus:
“ My mother was a high priestess, my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and […] years I exercised kingship.[15] ”

The image of Sargon as a castaway set adrift on a river resembles the better-known birth narrative of Moses. Scholars such as Joseph Campbell and Otto Rank have compared the 7th century BC Sargon account with the obscure births of other heroic figures from history and mythology, including Karna, Oedipus, Paris, Telephus, Semiramis, Perseus, Romulus, Gilgamesh, Cyrus, Jesus, and others.

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Sargon died, according to the short chronology, around 2215 BC. His empire immediately revolted upon hearing of the king's death. Most of the revolts were put down by his son and successor Rimush, who reigned for nine years and was followed by another of Sargon's sons, Manishtushu (who reigned for 15 years).[34] Sargon was regarded as a model by Mesopotamian kings for some two millennia after his death. The Assyrian and Babylonian kings who based their empires in Mesopotamia saw themselves as the heirs of Sargon's empire. Kings such as Nabonidus (r. 556–539 BC) showed great interest in the history of the Sargonid dynasty, and even conducted excavations of Sargon's palaces and those of his successors.[35] Indeed, such later rulers may have been inspired by the king's conquests to embark on their own campaigns throughout the Middle East. The Neo-Assyrian Sargon text challenges his successors thus:
The black-headed peoples [Sumerians] I ruled, I governed; mighty mountains with axes of bronze I destroyed. I ascended the upper mountains; I burst through the lower mountains. The country of the sea I besieged three times; Dilmun I captured. Unto the great Dur-ilu I went up, I ... I altered ... Whatsoever king shall be exalted after me, ... Let him rule, let him govern the black-headed peoples; mighty mountains with axes of bronze let him destroy; let him ascend the upper mountains, let him break through the lower mountains; the country of the sea let him besiege three times; Dilmun let him capture; To great Dur-ilu let him go up.[36]

Another source attributed to Sargon the challenge "now, any king who wants to call himself my equal, wherever I went [conquered], let him go.

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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad

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Originally posted by Mike111:
alTakruri - I have been unable to authenticate the mural above, it looks like a modern repaint or copy, so I thought that I would check it out. You say that it is in Andre Parrot's book "Sumer". And it might well be, but it must have a home in a museum or collection somewhere. Would you please say where.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by osirion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Osirion

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Black Headed is usually a reference to the hair being black.

Haven't heard of any finds showing a clear connection to Cushitic people in Summeria. Usually you have to go to Palestine for such connections.

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Osirion Think about that for a second..what would make the Sumerians hair stand out from their neighbours during that era? you are hard pressed to find alotta non black-haired people in that area today I know having been to the area myself a number of times.

The second part of your statement about them being Cushtite or non Cushtite is a little more complex..my guess is they were Black Asiatics who had contacts with Africans.
after fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and perfusely blessed it.
Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectivly.
from SN Kramer.

And if the Biblical verses holds true then there was African Gene flow as well..but only genetist can give a definate anwser.

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The fact that the Sumerians referred to themselves as Black headed is not in itself sufficient evidence to conclude anything about the origin of the peoples. Black headed does normally mean Black hair. Just like White headed in Akkadian and Ahmaric text is a reference to White hair.

What I would like to see is multiple points of evidence: skeletal and genetic evidence is usually needed in order to ascertain African heritage.

Using art work to determine ethnicity is really bad unless of course you have other supporting evidence and just are using these artifacts as a visual tool to make a point.

The aboriginal Arabs are a Black people of Cushitic ancestry. However, the Sumerians being Black is based on what skeletal finds?

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by osirion:
^ The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile, White Nile and River Atbara in what is now the Republic of Sudan. It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia, and as "Ethiopia" in ancient Greek and Greco-Roman records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan.

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged |