posted
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Appearance of the Original Berbers According to European Perceptions
5th century AD - “The Moors have bodies black as night, while the skin of the Gauls is white..." written by Isidore of Seville from The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville - by Steven A. Barney published 2007. p. 386
10th to 11th century AD Iraqi Physician Ibn Butlan wrote, “The Berber women are from the island of Barbara, which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of Kutama, whose father is of Sanhaja, and whose origin is Masmuda, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters… “ cited in Gender and sexuality in the Middle Ages by Martha A. Brożyna p. 303 2005.
14th century - Sir John Mandeville had written : Though men of Nubia be Christian, they be as the Moors from the great heat of the sun, written by English Knight, Sir John Mandeville, (died 1372). See chapter 7 of the Travels of Sir John Mandeville (Penguin Classics).
Introduction
All the early major Berber tribes including the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama Zenata and Nafusa are described as dark reddish brown like the “Indi’ or as “blacks” or Ethiopians in early documents. The notion of the early Berbers as being “whites” or Caucasoid is a new and racist one related to the concept of the African “Hamite”. Certainly the original Berber-speakers were never referred to as anything but “black” or something near it until the 12th century and were otherwise considered the color of Abyssinians and other so called “Indi”. Even the Kabyles a notoriously fair-skinned “Berber” people of North Africa are up until the 19th century described as “brown” "apart from a few clans". (See quotes below). The knowledge that Europeans were changing the complexion literally and figuratively of North Africa up until the 19th century has disappeared from modern European histories. Most know about the large part played by sub-saharan black slaves in the making of modern North Africa and Arabia while the white slave trade which was in fact dominant trade in North Africa until the fall of Constantinople (Istanbul in Turkey) in the 15th century had been largely ignored in historical writings of the 20th. Yet it was only a few centuries ago that Europeans visiting North Africa commenting on the fact that, “on almost every street of the cities of Barbary, Europeans could be seen harnessed to carts like draught horses or selling water from jars loaded on the backs of donkeys”.
1809 Commentary on those called “Moors” by an early 19th century observer: “They carry the Christian captives about the desert to the different markets to sell them for they soon discover that their habits of life render them unserviceable , or very inferior to the black slaves of Timbuktoo. “ from An Account of the Empire of Marocco, by J. G. Jackson published 1809 and 1814.
2003 - “From 1500 to 1650 when trans-Atlantic slaving was still in its infancy more Europeans were taken to Barbary than black African slaves to the Americas. See, Robert Davis Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, MacMillan Publishers, published 2003.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The impact of the white slave trade and its contribution to the modern biology and appearance of the modern North African stems from before the Arabian and Muslim waves into Africa. The Roman ruler Claudian spoke concerning Gildo, the “Moorish” ruler of Africa and treatment of Roman women from the Levant by this North African chief and his countrymen:
4th century - Claudian wrote, “ when tired of each noblest matron Gildo hands her over to the Moors. These Sidonian mothers, married in Carthage city must needs mate with barbarians. He thrusts upon me an Ethiopian as a son-in law, a Berber as a husband. The hideous hybrid affrights its cradle.” Claudian, by Claudius Claudianus, translation by Maurice Platnauer, published by G.P. Putnam's sons, 1922 p. 113. (Gildo was brother to other Berber chiefs Firmus and Maseczel. Gildo is related to Aguellid or Galdi which remains the modern Tuarek word for chief. Masek, Amazigh ot Imoshagh was the name for the ancient and modern Tuareg clans in general. The Mezikes tribes were called “Ethiopians” in Roman texts of the time. )
1st c. A.D. - “Diodorus Siculus speaks in reference to the expedition of Agathocles a Sardinian general, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan ),who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” , p. 50 The Mediterranean Race Book XX, 38, 57 Guiseppe Sergi, 1901. The Micatani were also called Ukutameni and Khethim by Josephus. In later writings they are called Ketama Berbers. The name Maketa or Imakitan remains a name for the eastern branches of the Tuareg.
1st century A.D.– Marcus Valerian Martial was one of the earliest Europeans to use the phrase “woolly hair like a Moor” in one of his Satires, and the phrase was commonly used up until the Middle Ages. See Nature Knows No Color Line by J.A. Rogers, 1952. p. 50 The Muslim era didn’t begin until the birth of Muhammed, the Prophet, over four centuries after Martial. By the 7th century the word came to be used for Arabians who in the early era of Islam for the most part also of “black” complexion.
1st century Silius Italicus also describes the Moors with the term ‘Nigra’ meaning black. In the 3rd century Roman dramatist Platus or Plautus maintained the name Maure was a synonym for “Niger” which another common term for the blacks in Europe. 6th century Isidore Archbishop of Seville claimed the word Maure meant black according to Brunson and Runoko Rashidi in “The Moors in Antiquity” in Golden Age of the Moor, 1991.
6th A.D.- Corippus uses the phrase “facies nigroque colorus” meaning faces or appearance of black color to describe the North African Berbers. In his book Johannis, I/ 245.
6th A.D. - Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Maures claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi” . The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those called the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco. 9th century - According to old Norse Saga Danish (Viking) raiders attacked Spain from Ireland the saga says: “From the latter place they ‘carried off a great host of them as captives to Erin and these are the blue men of Ireland (fir goma of Erin) for Mauri is the same as black man, and Mauritania is the same as blackness…Long indeed were these blue men in Erin.’” Jack D. Forbes, Black Africans and Native Americans (New York : Basil Blackwell, 1988),p. 68. Another transalation says “because the Moors are the same as Negroes; Mauretanis is the same as Negro-land.” After the 8th century the term Moor came to be used for the many Arabian clans who had invaded the Mediterranean and Africa because of their complexions which were the same dark brown or near black to absolutely black color of the Berbers. Most of the Moors in Spain were in fact the people also first known as “the Arabians”. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1914 - Archeologists observance of the ancient North Africans portrayed in ancient Egyptian tomb paintings, “The brun Libyan type is the only one portrayed in the Old Empire, the xanthrochroids predominate in the New Empire representations.” P. 40 from The Eastern Libyan Oric Bates The intrusive xanthrochroids…do not appear before the XII dynasty… It safe to say that they were immigrants.” from The Eastern Libyans by Oric Bates Frank Cass publishers 1914. pp. 40 and 41. (These paintings of the ancient Libyans as a brown in color are in the works of Nina Davies.)
1939 - “The extreme long-heads, concentrated in the Hoggar and in parts of the Algerian plateau are the Tuareg and the purer families of ancestral nomadic Berbers, preserving the head form which they brought from East Africa, their Hamitic homeland.” Carleton Coon The Races of Europe, p. 257 1979 reprint.
Five major tribes of Berbers were spoken of by early Muslim writers including the Sanhaja, Masumuda Zenata, Ketama and Goddula which were categorized into dozens of others which in turn were divided into many more. Among them were the early Kabyles originally a group of Sanhaja Berbers. Most descriptions refer to the modern Kabyles as fair-skinned, but in the 19th century and early 20th, descriptions and in fact many photographs depict them as dark and near black. (Photos from the 19th century show both very dark-skinned and near white skinned Kabyle individuals from different villages in the region).
Will the real Kabyle please stand up?
1890 - “The Kabyles or Kabaily of Algerian and Tunisian territories…besides tillage, work the mines contained in their mountains…They live in huts made of branches of trees and covered with clay which resemble the Magalia of the old Numidians…They are of middle stature, their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black.” from The Encyclopedia Britannica: Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and General Literature Henry G. Allen Company p. 261 Volume I 1890.
1834 - The Scotsman Thomas Campbell wrote, “The Kabyles…dress like the Arabs and a part from a few tribes, are brown complexioned and black haired” p. 109 cited in Barbary and Enlightenment: European Attitudes Toward the Maghreb in the 18th Century, Ann Thomson. Published 1987 by E. J. Bull
1895 - “As to whether these Berbers, one branch of whom conquered Spain, came from the Aborigines, who were of mixed races, or were lineal descendants of the Numidians, authorities differ. To those who have studied the variety of types in the Kabylie, where blue eyes and red hair, black eyes and swarthy skin, brown eyes and bronze red faces with almost Ethiopian features are seen, the former supposition seems most plausible?” Chapter XV Algerian Memories: A Bicycle Tour over the Atlas to the Sahara. By Fanny B. Workman London, 1895.
Modern inhabitants of Kabylia are obviously the remnant of several peoples once occupying this mountainous one part of Mauritania. It was the area of Berbers or Ketama and Zenata as well as other populations – including Greeks, Byzantines and other non-Berbers. Hence, the appearance and cultures of the Kabyles remains diverse. A description by Gillebert d’Hercourt in Etudes Anthropologiques sur Soixante-Seize indigenes de lAlgerie in 1865 said the Kabyle crania that were studied were generally dolichocephalic. In fact the physical anthropological studies done on ancient and modern North Africans show that early North Africans were dolichocephalic like the Tuareg and other dark-skinned berber tribes while modern fair-skinned people in Kabylia are for the most part not.
Fair-skinned Kabyles are predominantly mesocephalic (middle headed) and brachycephalic. It is interesting that the dress of the modern fair-skinned Kabyle women resembles that modern women of the Balkans and that pottery, jewelry, palm prints and blood group types according to Gabriel Camps are also like those of Euro-Mediterranean Greeks and other Euro-Mediterraneans. Many Kabyles like other North Africans also have a strong Turkish influence as judged from the recognizable Eurasian or East Asian facial appearance. Obviously some groups other than a Berber one makes up the main genetic strain in many modern Kabyle-speakers. Culturally the modern fair-skinned Kabyles have been documented as among the most patrifocal people in North Africa (Algeria: A Country Study 1985, pp. 133-138. Foreign Area Studies the American University). Meanwhile the ancient Berbers and their modern descendants like the Tuareg were notably matrilineal and matrifocal (to the chagrin of Midieval Muslim documenters who considered this among their ‘wicked” customs).
On the Libyo Berbers
1901 - The Oases if Nafzawa and Wed Suef and Wed Regh and other Berbers of the Sus as “of very dark complexion” in Guiseppi Sergi The Mediterranean Race: The Study of the origin of European peoples The Walter Scott Publishing Company The Gaitules were the most populous of the Libyan tribes of Strabo's time (1st century AD). Josephus claimed they were descended from Havilah or the Avalioi who he says were children of Kush child of Ham.
1st -2nd century - Juvenal, the Roman comic writer in his Satire V. 53 referred to “a Gaetulian, as a black a Moor “so black you’d rather not see him at midnight”.. Found in Madan’s translation of Juvenal, vol. I by J. Vincent published at Oxford.
Among the Gaetules were a tribe Dari or Darae Gaetuli, there was also a stream called Daradae Ethiopus (DARAE were a Gaetulian tribe in the W. of Africa, on a mountain stream called Dara, on the S. steppes of M. Atlas, adjacent to the Pharusii. (Plin. V. 1: Oros. i. 2: Leo Afr. P. 602.) The Draa (Arabic: درأ) (also spelled Dra or Draâ, in older sources mostly Darha or Dara) is Morocco's longest river (1100 km). “The inhabitants of the Draa are called Draawa (an exonym), the most famous Draawi undoubtedly being mawlay Mohammed ash-Sheikh. Outside of the Draa region this name is mostly used to refer to the dark skinned people of Draa which make up the largest portion of its inhabitants.” Retrieved May 13th 2008 from http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Draa-river
Descriptions of the MASMUDA, SANHAJA, KETAMA, ZENATA or Berbers of coastal North Africa and the Upper Atlas
Most Arab-speaking historians beginning as far back as the 8th century when Wah ibn Munabihh a South Arabian and descendant of an Iranian mercenary claimed the Berbers belonged to black races of Ham. Several Muslim writers claimed the Berbers were the sons of Berr who were said to descend from Mazigh ibn (son of ) Canaan Ibn Ham Ibn Nuh (Noah). The tradition found cited in Nafousa: Berber Community in Western Libya, Omar Sahli citing Dabbuz. Retrieved on-line from http://www.tawalt.com/monthly/fessato_1.pdf , July. 12, 2008. The Zenata are called a Canaanite race by other Muslim writers see ‘The Berbers” Geo. Babington Michell, Journal of the Royal African Society, Vol. 2, No. 6 (Jan., 1903), pp. 161-194. The traditions state that, in fact, Berbers were descendants of Amalekites (Amalek) from Canaan and Himyarite from Yemen both descendants of “Adites” that had invaded Egypt before 1200 B.C. and “advanced toward the Maghreb”. The Berbers as represented by the Tuareg especially appear to have called themselves Mashek or Mazigh who are associated with bringing the camel into Africa. Mashek is still the name of a tribe of the Mahra of Oman and Hadramaut who also claim an origin in the Yemen. ( In early Arabian tradition the lowland of Canaan or the Kenaniyya tribe was in an area of the western region of Arabia north of Yemen and not farther to the north in modern Palestine or Israel. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Kamal Salibi )
11th century - Ibn Butlan of Iraq wrote, “The Berber women are from the island of arbara, which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of Kutama, whose father is of Sanhaja, and whose origin is Masmuda, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters, active in service, suited both to motherhood and to pleasure, for they are the most solicitous in caring for their children.” 11th century - Nasr i Khusrau, an Iranian ruler described the Masmuda soldiers of the Fatimid dynasty as “black Africans”. See Yaacov Lev, "Army, Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt, 358-487/968-1094", International Journal of Middle Eastern Studies, 19.3 (1987) p. 342.
13th century – Primary Cronica General of Alphonso X of Spain describes the 300 Almoravid “Amazon” women whose leader is described as black and Moorish. They were “led by their leader Nugaymath al-Tarqiyya (the “star of the Tuareg archers” in Arabic) who led the Almoravid siege of Valencia”; cited in Nubian Queens in the Nile Valley by Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban, Ninth International Conference of Nubian Studies, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, USA. See also The Berbers in Arab Literature by H.T. Norris 1982.p. 20. Harvey , L.P. “Nugaymath Turquia, Primera Cronica General, Chapter 956” Journal of Semitic Studies 13, no. 2:232. Targiyyat or Targiya is a variant form or pronunciation in North Africa for the name Tuareg.
13th or 14th century Abu Shama, a Syrian, described the Masmuda Berbers as “blacks” in his, Kitab al-Ravdatayn. Found in Golden Age of the Moor, 1991 edition p. 57, edited by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima.
14th – The Almoravid or Al Murabitun dynasty entering Spain originally centered in the Atlas was one of the last dynasties coming from Africa to rule in the Iberian peninsula. One of the 11th century rulers of Andalusia and North Africa was Yusuf Tachfin who had come from a long line of miltary rulers. According to "Roudh el-Kartas" (History of the Rulers of Morocco) by Abd Allah, and A.Beaumier's French translation of the 14th century work, Yusuf was of “brown color”, of “middle height” with , “ thin, little beard, soft voice” and “woolly hair”.
The Almoravid dynasty was supposedly composed mainly of Sanhaja clans of Massufa, Joddala (Gaetuli) and Lamtuna (or Auelimidden Tuareg)- the Auelamidden have since moved southward and live in Niger. The Banu Warith or Waritan branch of the Joddala are called Fulani, Futa, Fulata or Peul.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The founders of the "Moorish" kingdoms originated from Yemen. That makes sense considering Islam originated from the Arabian Peninsula and led an innovation "rush". The technology had an origin in China, Greece, and India.
Saying that, even if we assume that the "Semites" were "white", scholarly evidence suggests that the linguistic group has an origin in the Horn of Africa.
Now I ask this question: maintaining the conditions above, does that make the Moors Black? It could be argued that the man power were probably Black African (due to a larger population). However, what constitute as the Moors, the African base, or the Yemeni innovators?
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Both...going back centuries before there was either Christians or Muslims all the way back to Roman times as the above post shows there were a people being called Moors by Europeans,that Yemenites who could well be Blacks or have large numbers of Blacks amongst them was just an overlay of the original Black population.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01: The founders of the "Moorish" kingdoms originated from Yemen. That makes sense considering Islam originated from the Arabian Peninsula and led an innovation "rush". The technology had an origin in China, Greece, and India.
Much of the Moorish technology had an origin in Arabia including those that were navigational, astronomical, agricultural, mathematical and map-making. The Moors were the Yemenites, and other Arabians shown on part I and II all of whom are described as blacks before the 15th century. The writings of Syrians,Iraqis, Turks said they looked down upon fair-skin and yes the Arabians were the last of the "Semites" or sons of Shem.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, the Moors were in Europe many centuries before the muslim invasion of Europe.
It was a name used by the Romans to describe the Numidian Kingdom Africans of North Africa. They were black Africans phenotype, like the Riffan Berbers, the Siwans of Libya, and many Ganawas of Morocco.
There were many accomplished pre-islamic Moorish in Europe and they were all Africans.
If Yemenites were the Moors, where in Yemen is called Moor-ia, or Morocco, or Mauritania...
Yemenites are the original Arab blacks no arguing that.
Yet Moors are Africans from Mauritania, Morocco, and Senegal, even Nigeria...(the Hausas and the Zhagawas).
Lion!
Iron!
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
The word Moor referred to black populations invading Spain from Africa. Among these blacks were blacks from Africa, blacks from Arabia and blacks from the middle East. Blacks have been in all these places since the beginning. From North Africa to Asia there have black populations making up the populations of Muslims encountered by the West.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01: The founders of the "Moorish" kingdoms originated from Yemen. That makes sense considering Islam originated from the Arabian Peninsula and led an innovation "rush". The technology had an origin in China, Greece, and India.
Much of the Moorish technology had an origin in Arabia including those that were navigational, astronomical, agricultural, mathematical and map-making. The Moors were the Yemenites, and other Arabians shown on part I and II all of whom are described as blacks before the 15th century. The writings of Syrians,Iraqis, Turks said they looked down upon fair-skin and yes the Arabians were the last of the "Semites" or sons of Shem.
Are you sure? Moors were known to be great copyists. They used Greek technology, not to mention Indo-Chinese shipping technology. The same goes for paper, and the number scripture which has an Indian origin. On top of that,they had a significant Kemetian extraction as well.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did they come from Yemen or North West Africa??
Moors and Saracens in Europe: estimating the medieval North African male legacy in southern Europe
ABSTRACT:
To investigate the male genetic legacy of the Arab rule in southern Europe during medieval times, we focused on specific Northwest African haplogroups and identified evolutionary close STR-defined haplotypes in Iberia, Sicily and the Italian peninsula. Our results point to a higher recent Northwest African contribution in Iberia and Sicily in agreement with historical data. southern Italian regions known to have experienced long-term Arab presence also show an enrichment of Northwest African types. The forensic and genomic implications of these findings are discussed.
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01: The founders of the "Moorish" kingdoms originated from Yemen. That makes sense considering Islam originated from the Arabian Peninsula and led an innovation "rush". The technology had an origin in China, Greece, and India.
Saying that, even if we assume that the "Semites" were "white", scholarly evidence suggests that the linguistic group has an origin in the Horn of Africa.
Now I ask this question: maintaining the conditions above, does that make the Moors Black? It could be argued that the man power were probably Black African (due to a larger population). However, what constitute as the Moors, the African base, or the Yemeni innovators?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have other posts on this sight talking about why the Moors were called black, including one on the Central Arabians, one on the North Arabians and one on the Yemenites. The "Moors" were first the blacks then known as the Berbers (Ketama, Sanhaja, Masmuda, Zenata) and then "the blacks" known as "the Arabs" who were the North Arabians, Central Arabians and Yemenites. Many of the Moors in Spain in the later period also came from the Mande related populations.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
What I am sure is that the region that the Yemenites came from had been one of the most richest and highly developed in the world. Yemen or south Arabia was known for its astronomical and navigational expertise. It was also the region from which came the Phoenicians of Palestine according to ancient Greeks - the same people whom Josephus calls "the Amalekite shepherds". We do not have to ask whether Sabaeans who some have rightly called "the Phoenicians of the South" and known for their agricultural skills in Arabia were already adept mathmeticians.
The lesser modified dark-skinned Yemenites still claim to have originated in Africa at a remote period. They evidently brought with them the astronomical knowledge that many ancient Nilotes had already possessed from Nabta Playa and other areas.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The page below has photographs of the Yafa'i a group of the Azd and Mahra of the Kudha'a Himyarites in Arabia. At the bottom are a a group of Rachaida men in modern Sudan a clan of the Abs or Murad (Madhij).
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob_01: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by qoucela: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob_01: [qb] The founders of the "Moorish" kingdoms originated from Yemen. That makes sense considering Islam originated from the Arabian Peninsula and led an innovation "rush". The technology had an origin in China, Greece, and India."
You also said, "Are you sure? Moors were known to be great copyists." If Moors were great "copyists" I wonder what that makes the Greeks.
Furthermore, ur theory about manpower goes for the Turks, Syrians, Slavs and other populations of Europeans and Eurasiatics. "Arabs" held fair skin in disfavor and were literally the "black nationalists" of the ancient world and most of the black population in Spain.
See my other posts on this forum about Arabians.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is to show that knowledge didn't all come from places north of the desert. The point of the three quotes is to show influence coming from the south to the north
quote:The scholars of Timbuctoo yielded in nothing to the saints and their miracles. During their sojourns in the foreign universities of Fez, Tunis, and Cairo, ' they astounded the most learned men of Islam by their erudition.' That these negroes were on a level with the Arabian savants is proved by the fact that they were installed as professors in Morocco and Egypt. In contrast to this we find that the Arabs were not always equal to the requirements of Sankore.'A celebrated jurist of Hedjaz (Arabia), arriving in Timbuctoo with the intention of teaching, found the town full of Sudanese scholars. Observing them to be his superiors in knowledge, he withdrew to Fez, where he succeeded in obtaining employment.'
A note about the bellow book Cooley is basically working for the colonialists so I would stay skeptical about much of what this book says. I have reason to think much of it is mistranslated but it still has useful information
"The Negroland of the Arabs examined and explained" by By William Desborough Cooley
quote: Adjoining the Berber (Somalia nothing to do with Maghrib) are the Abyssinians (Ethiopians), the most numerous and powerful of the Blacks. From their country Yemen once had its kings. The king of the Abyssinians was entitled Al-Negashi, and the capital of his kingdom was the city of Kaber. The Abyssinians are Christians, but it is said that one of their kings embraced the true faith when Mohammed visited their country in the Hijra. They believe that they are destined to become masters of Yemen and all Arabia
"Medieval West Africa: Views From Arab Scholars and Merchants" page 40
quote:The king of Zafun is stronger than the veiled people of the Maghreb and more versed in the art of kingship. The veiled people acknowledge his superiority over them, obey him and resort to him in all important matters of government. One year the king, on his way to the pilgrimage, came to the Maghreb to pay a visit to the commander of the Muslims, the veiled king of the Maghreb, of the tribe of Lamtuna. The Commander of the Muslims met him on foot, wheras the king of Zafun did not dismount for him. He was tall, of deep black complexion and veiled
posted
Hejazis are from north west Arabia -north and south. Many of them were desert bedouin. Yemenites, Hejazis, Central Arabians were of different backgrounds as were the Africans. The ironic thing about the Hejazis is that most were probably blacker than "the negroes" mentioned in your email.
Sulaym and their Hilal cousins were the peoples of the Harrah described as black as the lava rocks there. Khazraj and Aus Hejazis who lived around Medina are usually described as "black as pitch or jet". So blacks differed in their educational attainments. I am guessing that is the point being made here? That is an interesting story though.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not to drag the topic off course. . .but what is it Fari and Selassie?? Having him on the web page makes me second guess the source.
Better to have Garvey or Malcolm(the later version not the racist). These brothers were the whole package.
quote:Originally posted by qoucela: The page below has photographs of the Yafa'i a group of the Azd and Mahra of the Kudha'a Himyarites in Arabia. At the bottom are a a group of Rachaida men in modern Sudan a clan of the Abs or Murad (Madhij).
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Not to drag the topic off course. . .but what is it Fari and Selassie?? Having him on the web page makes me second guess the source.
Better to have Garvey or Malcolm(the later version not the racist). These brothers were the whole package.
quote:Originally posted by qoucela: The page below has photographs of the Yafa'i a group of the Azd and Mahra of the Kudha'a Himyarites in Arabia. At the bottom are a a group of Rachaida men in modern Sudan a clan of the Abs or Murad (Madhij).
posted
You can also see the same article on this forum posted by me. "Why the Moors were Called Black" without the pictures though.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
My point was to show influences from places like Ethiopia and other places south of the desert. (I edited my above post)
Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Sudan had many influences but Ethtiopia wasn't the main one of them, unless you are talking of Nubia. Some Sudanese like the Hausa are descendants of Nubians and Canaanites according to their own traditions and archeology. Most Sudanic peoples though like Mande (Wa'ngara, Wakore, Songhai,Malinke)and Teda Krit,Ikaradan or Haratin however had been in the Sahara and Sahel for several thousand years and were the creators of Garamantian and other Germa or Djerma civilizations there and along the Nile.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Just a note Ethiopians were considered Semites (by European colonialists) so Semite is exactly like the Hamitic myth except Semites would be considered racially superior to Hamites. In that case European racists must have seen Abyssinians as being influential to elevate them to such a status
quote:The Bantu tribes around Lakes Albert and Victoria have Huma stock and Hamitic origin. The other Galla have been four centuries associated with Abyssinia. Undue stress need not be laid on Abyssinia's semi-civilization benefiting them, but it remains a fact, to Abyssinian credit, that the best agriculturists, artisans and herdsmen among the Galla are neighbors of the only Christian barbarians in the world. The pagan Galla is faithful and frank. The Huma Galla, Moslems, are a fine race, distinguished by intense love of freedom, and by self-government. These characteristics and kindred traits must assist missions in Abyssinia, Gallaland and Uganda.
The lowest factors in the future development of Africa are the Abyssinian and the Arab, both Semitic in ancestry, both interbred with Hamites and Negroes.
posted
It was recognized in the time of the Greeks and Romans that the Abyssinians and Yemenites were one people. And in the time of Philostorgius and Nonnus circa the 3rd for 5th century the Himyarites, the Axumites and the Saracens were "the most powerful nations of their time". Along with the Byzantines.
Also the Mahrams of Bornu recognize that the original Maghuri and other Tuareg tribes originated in "the rif region of Abyssinia". That is why the camel nomads around Zeila in Somalia (and yes Berber country)were still wearing the veil in the 12th century.
Please see my other posts on this site and the article "The African Heritage and Ethnohistory of the Moors" in Dr. Van Sertima's - Golden Age of the Moor for documentation.
The reason for this post is not to show the influence of Taureg, Somali, Abyssinians and other so called hamito semites or "Afro-Asiatics" in the Sudan and Sahel it was to explain one of the reasons the Moors were called black in Spain. And if you look at my other posts on this blog you will also see clearly why the Arabs for the most part were the largest portion of "the Moors" in Spain.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ibn Khaldun's quote makes it seem like Abyssiniana continued to have considerable influence to the point that "They believe that they are destined to become masters of Yemen and all Arabia"
Both Zanj and Abyssinia seem to have had considerable influence because there is also the Zanj revolt. This shows that it was mostly merchants from the south traveling north, instead of the other way around. I could be wrong but from what I've read I have the impression that the "Arab" presence on the Swahili Coast was never that great until maybe after the Portuguese came
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic