posted
Some people claim there was no way that the Meroites would have adopted the Tocharian language and Kharosthi script because people using this language were unfamiliar to the Meroites.This is false.
There is historical evidence that Indians using this language were already living in many communities in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire called : Gymnosophist. The Gymnosophists were Buddhist.The Buddhist used the Kharosthi script and Tocharian to write their documents.
posted
The Tocharian language was written in Kharosthi script. This script was used to write the Gandhararan Buddist Text. According to Glass (2000) the Kharosthi script appears fully developed in the Asokan inscriptions of Shahbazgarhi and Mansehra. These inscriptions date back to 3rd Century BC (Glass, 2000 p.20). It continued to be used in Gandhara, Kushan and Sogdian.
Glass provides evidence that Kharosthi writing dates back to the first Brahmi inscriptions of India (Glass, 2000 pp.20-21). The fact the writing was used in India by Asoka to produce the rock edicts (Glass, 2000) , demonstrates that Khasrothi was in use long before the introduction of the Meroitic script to Kush.
The Meroitic script resembles many Khaorsthi signs. Some researchers argue that the Meroites did not adopt the writing system of the Kushana/Tocharian people which was Kharosthi. Although this is their opinion a comparison of the Meroitic and Kharosthi symbols make it clear that both writing systems share many cognate signs.
Aubin (1996) did a comparison of Meroitic and Kharothi and discovered that 34 out of 42 signs or 81% matched.
Figure 1 : Aubin (1996) Comparison of Meroitic and Kharosthi Signs
Since Tocharian was written is Kharosthi the cognition between Kharosthi and Meroitic is quite interesting and shows some connection between these scripts. It also offers additional support to the Tocharian origin of Meroitic writing given the analogy between the signs.
Let's not forget that Welsby in The Kingdom of Kush, notes that "only four of the [Meroitic] letters resemble the equivalent Egyptian demotic signs" (p.193) But as you can see from the above there are more than four Kharosthi signs that match Meroitic, and even more of these signs match Kharosthi.
The summary , Kharosthi script dates back to the 3rd Century BC. It was used to write Tocharian inscriptions. This makes it clear that Kharosthi was in use long before the Meroitic script was created.
References:
Aubin,P. (1996). Evidence for an Early Nubian Dialect in Meroitic Inscriptions: Phonological and Epigraphic Considerations. Meroitic Newsletter, pp.16-39.
Glass, A. (2000). A Preliminary Study of Kharosthi Manuscript Paleography. M.A. Thesis. University of Washington.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana makes it clear that the Gymnosophist lived in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire. The historical evidence makes it clear that there was probably two migrations of Buddhist Gymnosophists to Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.
Asoka was a supporter of Buddhism. Zacharias P. Thundy, in Buddha and Christ make it clear that the edits of Asoka (c.274-236 BC) indicate that this ruler sent missionaries to Egypt to preach the Buddhist Dharma(pp.242-243).
Thundy maintains that archaeological evidence exist for a community of Indian sages living in Memphis as early as 200 BC (p.243).
We know that decendents of these missionaries were still in Egypt over two hundred years later because they were visited by Apollonius of Tyana.
Asoka used Kharosthi to write his edits. The Buddhist also used this writing system to record their scriptures. This means that the Gymnosophists would have had a long tradition of employing Kharosthi to communicate their ideas. The Gymnosophists were probably well respected by the Meroites and some Meroites probably had knowledge of Buddhist teachings and literacy.
Some Meroites may have played an important role in Buddhist because Blemmyae, a prominent group in the Meroitic Sudan are mentioned in Pali text Tipitaka (see:JDM Derrett, (2002) A Blemmya in India, Numen 49:460-474). Dr.Derrett wrote that in early Pali text " we have a Blemmya (an African) in front rank Buddhist texts of very respectable age (p.465).
The Buddhist text where Blemmya were mentioned are very old. The Vinaya pitaka, is dated to the 4th century B.C.E.
If Blemmya are mentioned in Buddhists text we can be sure that Meroites were not ignorant of Kharosthi. This would explain why many of the Meroitic symbols agree with Kharosthi. They agree because some Meroites were probably already literate in Kharosthi due to the influence of Buddhism in the Meroitic Empire.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
There seems to have been a second migration of Buddhists to the Meroitic Empire many years after Asoka sent missionaries to Egypt. These migrants came to the Meroitic Empire after their king was murdered.
Flavius Philostratus, the writer of the Vita Apollonii, Vol.1 , claimed that the Gymnosophists of Meroe originally came from India (see F.C. Conybeare, Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana(p.45),1950). Given the fact that the Kushana had formerly ruled India around the time that the Meroitic writing was introduced to the Kushite civilization, led to the hypothesis that the ancestors of the Gymnosophist may have been Kushana philosophers.
The historical evidence of the Kushana having ruled India made the Classical references to Indians, the Gymnosophists in Meroe, an important source for the construction of alternative theories about the possible location of the cognate language of Meroitic.
There is external evidence, which supports my theory. A theory explains observed phenomena and has predictive power. I have theorized that due to the claims of the Classical writers that some of the Meroites came from India (F.C Conybeare (Trans.), Philostratus: The life of Apollonius of Tyana Vol.2, (1950) pg.271).
According to the Life of Apollonius, the Indian Meroites were formerly led by a King Ganges, who had "repulsed the Scythians who invaded this land [India from] across the Caucasus" (Conybeare, Vol.1, Pg.273). Pilostratus also made it clear that the Indians of Meroe came to this country after their king was killed.
The presence of this tradition of an Indian King of the Indian-Meroites conquering the Scythians predicts that the Indian literature should record this historical episode. This prediction is supported by a Jaina text called the Kalakeharya-Kathanaka , which reports that when the Scythians invaded Malwa, the King of Malwa, called Vikramaditya defeated the Scythians (H. Kulke & D. Rothermund, History of India(London, Routledge: 1990, pg.73). This king Vikramaditya may be the Ganges mentioned in the Life of Apollonius.Confirmation of the Ganges story,supports the Classical literary evidence that their were Indianized -Meroites that could have introduced the Tocharian trade language to the Meroites.
In addition to the classical mention of the Indians settling Meroë, and Asoka's edit sending missionaries to Egypt, we also have a horde of Kushana coins that were found on the floor of a cave at the present monastery-shine at Debra Demo in modern Ethiopia in 1940. Moreover, there were other Indians in North Africa in addition to Kush/Meroe. For example, at Quseir al-Qadim there was a large Indian speaking community (see: R. Salomon, "Epigraphic remains of Indian traders in Egypt", Journal of the American oriental Society, (1991) pp.731-736; and R. Salomon, Addenda,Journal of the American Oriental Society, (1993) pg.593). These Indians were in Egypt writing messages in their own language, around the time we see a switch from Egyptian hieroglyphics to the Meroitic writing system. All of this supported the traditions of the Meroites that speak of a knowledge of the Kushana/Indians among the Meroites.
The evidence that the Classical references to an Indian-Meroite King who conquered the Scythians is supported by the Indian literature, provides external corroboration of the tradition that some of the Meroites were of Indian origin. The presence of Indian traders and settlers in Meroe (and Egypt), makes it almost impossible to deny the possibility that Indians, familiar with the Tokharian trade languagedid not introduce this writing to the Meroites who needed a neutral language to unify the diverse ethnic groups who made up the Meroite state. In relation to the history of linguistic change and bilingualism, itis a mistake to believe that linguistic transfer had to take place for the Meroites to have used Tokharian, when it did not take place when they wrote in Egyptian hieroglyphics.
In summary the classical literature makes it clear that there was a connection between the Gymnosophists (of Meroe) and the Indians. The fact that historical events mentioned in the classical sources are found in the Indian literature confirm the view that there were Indian-Meroites who could have introduced the Tokharian trade language to the Meroites. The fact that the Nubians who were probably not part of the"Meroitic state", used hieroglyphics and Coptic to write their language without abandoning their native language support the view that the Meroites could have also used Tokharian to write Meroitic. And that eventhough the Kushites wrote Meroitic inscriptions in Tokharian, theywould not have had to abandon their own language.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
My decipherment of Meroitic is based on the Kushana theory.
The Kushana theory is that a group of “East Indian” scholars introduced the Meroitic writing system to the Meroites.
The Kushana hypothesis was based on the following evidence, 1) no African language has been found to be a cognate language of Meroitic 2) the Classical literature says that the Kushites lived in Asia and Africa; 3) the Gymnosophists, or "naked sages" of Meroe came from India.
Before I began work on Meroitic, other researchers had already falsified the African theory for Meroitic's cognate language. Meroitic is not related to languages spoken in this area. Griffith and Haycock tried to read Meroitic using Nubian and failed. K.H. Priese tried to read the Meroitic text using Eastern Sudani; he also failed.
The fact that not even Nubian, a language spoken by a people who were engaged in constantly conflict with the Meroites , failed to be the cognate language of Meroitic made it clear that we must look elsewhere for the cognate language spoken by the Meroites.
The evidence presented above provides internal and external validity for my theory based upon the sources I have cited previously. The sources I have used are impartial, to disconfirm my hypothesis someone needs to show that my propositions are not fully informed[i.e., there were no Indians North Africa and Kush when the Classical writers maintained they were] and present rival explanations based on the evidence. The fact that the claims made by the Classical writers issupported by the Indians themselves if further strong confirmation of the Kushana hypothesis.
The hypothesis based on the classical literature, was enough to support the original Kushana Hypothesis. The predicting power of the original theory, matches the observed natural phenomena which was confirmed elsewhere by cognate place names, ethononyms, lexicalitems and grammatical features, indicate that my theory has not be falsified.
The ability to reliably predict a linguistic relationship between Kushana and Meroitic, was further confirmation of the Kushana Hypothesis, because the linguistic connections were deducible from prediction. I controlled the Kushana Hypothesis by comparing the statements of the classical writers, with historical, linguistic anthropological and toponymic evidence found not only in Africa, but also India and Central Asia [where the people also used Tokharian as a trade language to unify the various people in Central Asia]. I constructed three testable hypotheses in support of the Kushana theory, and it seems only fair that these variables must be disconfirmed, to falsify the Kushana Hypothesis.
Hypothesis 1: If the meroites used a writing system of non-African origin a tradition mentioning this fact will exist. (Hypothesis confirmed. Classical literature mentions Indian scholars in ancient Meroe.)
Hypothesis: 2. If the classical literature mentions Indians who lived in Egypt influencing the Meroites their should be historical evidence relating to this tradition. (Hypothesis confirmed .Classical literature mentions a King who left his country is mentioned in the Jaina text called the Kalakeharya-Kathanaka.)
Hypothesis: 3. If Classical literature is true about the Indian origin of the Gymnosophists Indians will be found living near the Meroites around the time the Meroitic inscriptions appear. (Hypothesis confirmed. Artifacts and coins with Indian inscriptions have been found in Egypt and Ethiopia.) Failure to disconfirm this theorem, implies validity of myprediction.
My confirmation of the above , and 1) the presence of Kushites in Africa and Asia; 2) Asoka sent many Buddhist missionaries to Egypt who wrote their scriptures in Kharosthi and Tocharian; 3) a Blemmya--native to the Meroitic empire, is mentioned in numerous Buddhist Pali text; 4)the presence of Kushana sages in India who may have migrated to Meroe;5) cognate lexical items; 6)cognate verbs and 7) cognate grammatical features; indicates systematic controlled, critical and empirical investigation of the question of Kushana representing the Meroitic cognate language.
As a result of these facts we can now use Tocharian or Kushana to read the Meroitic text. The historical evidence make it clear that the Meroites were probably not strangers to Kharosthi literacy since the Gymnosophists had been in Upper Egypt and Meroitic Empires hundreds of years.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Which Aubin 1996 reference are you referring to? Aubin 2003 holds that the script likely developed from Egyptian a few score kilometers away rather than distant India. QUOTE:
"Common sense dictates that the Meroitic script is more likely to have developed from the culturally and geographically closer Egyptian writing than from the distant Kharosthi."
Aubin notes some resemblances to Kharoshi it is true, but the Egyptian source seems to be the main one.
You mention classical sources saying Indians lived in Egypt and Kush in the New Kingdom times, but this does not necessarily lead to the Meroe script being derived from Indians. In fact it may be the other way around- that the Kharoshti developed from Aramaic, which in turn derived from Egyptian. Aubin herself mentions this conjecture.
In a footnote, Aubin does not support your Mero thesis and says:
"Since this was written I have come across an article by C. Winters that mentions similarities between the Meroitic and Kharosthi scripts although none specifically. While I do not support his unrelated conclusions about Meroitic, I do agree that the two scripts have many points of resemblance. (Clyde A. Winters, " Inscriptions ofTanyidamani ", Nubica et .lEthiopica 4/5 (2000 ?), [355]-387)
Above you say "hypothesis confirmed." However based on the work of Aubin the jury is still very much out.
[Aubin, Penelope (2003) ‘Evidence for an Early Nubian Dialect in Meroitic Inscriptions: Phonological and Epigraphic Considerations’ Meroitic Newsletter No. 30. 15-39.]
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I don't know why I got the dates for the article wrong. You are right the date it was published was 2003 not 1996.
Aubin’s work does nothing to falsify the Kushana Theory. She admits that Kharosthi and Meroitic are related, but she says she does not agree with my “conclusions”. Just not agreeing with my “conclusions” does mean she has challenged the conclusions or that I am wrong—it reflects her opinion.
You don’t know anything about a court of law or hypotheses testing. You are just going off your personal belief. You keep saying the Meroites got got writing from India. This is not the case. They got writing from Buddhist missionaries who over time became nativized in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.
A jury must judge evidence to make a decision.This evidence becomes facts which must be addressed before a decision can be made.
Aubin provides no evidence disputing my position, she just makes a statement. How can the jury be out when she presents no evidence disputing my facts (evidence). She says that Kharosthi matches 81% of Meroitic signs while the fact remains that only 4 Demotic signs have the same shape and phonetic value of Meroitic signs.
Anyone can be part of a jury and review the facts of a matter to make a fair decision in a court of law. Let’s look at the facts :
1) Only 4 Demotic signs share the same phonetic value and shape of Meroitic signs. 2) 81% of Kharosthi signs and Meroitic signs match. 3) Asoka sent Buddhist missionaries , the Gymnosophists to Egypt to preach Buddhism who used Kharosthi to write their scriptures. 4) Appolonus three hundred years later found communities of Gymnosophist in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire that were native to the region. 5) A second group of Indian Buddhist (Kushana) entered the Meroitic Empire after the murder of their King. 6) Blemmya, a Meroite ethnic group appears in Buddhist Pali text indicating Buddhism was probably practiced in the Meroitic Empire 7) The long history of Buddhism in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire made Kharosthi and Tocharian important medium of communication in the region along with Egyptian. This would be similar to the contemporary situation in the U.S. where English is the official language, but Advertising, and part of the Media is written in Spanish because of the Spanish speaking minority in the U.S.
These are the facts in the matter under discussion. Please post any of Aubin’s evidence which contradicts these facts.
Given the facts in this case, any unbiased jury would have to find—that the long history of Buddhism and the Kharosthi literacy of this group support the view that these Buddhist Meroites probably inspired the creation of the Meroitic script and language to serve as a lingua franca in the Meroitic Sudan. It also highlights the fact that since Buddhist lived in Meroitic Empire and used Tocharian and Kharosthi to write their scriptures, Tocharian was a language of the Meroites, just like the Egyptian language which was spoken by some Meroites.
posted
Clyde, the problem here is that your "evidence" is only conjecture.
You have yet to prove:
1) Bhuddist communities in Meroitic Kush.
2) Long History of Buddhism in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic empire.
On top of that, there is no doubt that ancient Sudan and East Africa had strong ties to India, physically and culturally. However, your arguments are based too much on conjecture and not actual evidence. I would like to see more actual evidence for the Bhuddist presence in the Nile Valley in terms of actual inscriptions, writings, artwork, textiles and everything else. I believe there is a lot of evidence of Kushite contacts with India, but you simply haven't really uncovered any. The point is that much of that evidence has been or is being destroyed and more work needs to be done to recover the ancient artifacts from Sudan so that we can properly reconstruct its relationships within Africa and to the outside world, including South Arabia, India and Asia. I mean for a long time Kush, Meroe and later Sudanese states were major trading partners with Asia, so it is obvious that there would be strong connections there.
I believe that a proper analysis of the evidence would show that the Nile Valley had a strong influence on Asia in terms of religious custom and custom, but you are merely scratching the surface by focusing on vague linguistic similarities.
Some examples of this influence are colossal sculpture, rock cut tombs and shrines, ceremonial dress to include garlands and elaborate kilts, the black dot or third eye symbolism of Ra, figures with multiple arms and legs symbolizing the collective and so forth....
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde, the problem here is that your "evidence" is only conjecture.
You have yet to prove:
1) Bhuddist communities in Meroitic Kush.
2) Long History of Buddhism in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic empire.
You can't read.I am not talking about Indian elements in Meroitic art. I am talking about the fact that a major ethnic group in the Meroitic Sudan used Tocharian and the Kharosthi script to write their scriptures. This made Tocharian a language used by the Meroite Buddhists.
I did present evidence we have the edits of Asoka and Flavius Philostratus, Vita Apollonii, which prove Buddhist were sent to Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan. The visit of Appolonus to the Upper Egyptian and Meroitic communities of the Gymnosophists support the long history of Buddhism in the region , as well as the mention of Blemmya in Buddhist text a native of the Meroitic Sudan.
How is this conjecture when we know that Asoka sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt, and there was a large Buddhist community in Upper Egypt and Meroitic Sudan when Appolonus visited the region? Please present the evidence disputing these facts.
quote:However, your arguments are based too much on conjecture and not actual evidence.
cosign.
You can't read either. How can 1) the edits of Asoka, 2) Flavius Philostratus, Vita Apollonii, which prove Buddhist were sent to Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan; 3)the visit of Appolonus to the Upper Egyptian and Meroitic communities of the Gymnosophists; and 4) mention of Blemmya (a native of the Meroitic Sudan) in Buddhist text be conjecture.
These are all indisputable facts supported by textual evidence and the presence of the Meroitic script which is written in the Tocharian language and Kharosthi script. This was probably the medium of communication among the Buddhists of Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan.
posted
^^As Doug hints, and Aubin suggests, it may be the other way around. Nile Valley influence may have been transmitted to India either directly, or via some third party, rather than India to Nile Valley, which is how similarities in the script came about. Sure you may have had travellers or traders from Asia to Egypt, but the question is- how significant are they?
You have a thesis but it is hardly confirmed. Even Aubin disagrees with you. How do you account for the similarities with the various Egyptian scripts for example? Are you saying Indian influence shaped the Egyptian script which then filtered down to the Meroites? Please post more evidence.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Ok forgive me for running to Wiki.but this is what i found,swastikas were common,perhaps too common,tree of life also common but don't know if it sprang from a single original source. 3rd century B.C. king Ashoka send Buddhist missionaries to his known world including Kemet.in another thread i mentioned Apedemak looked Indian by casual eyeballing,he still does but he seems to related to Maahes of the Medjayi.so apperently not an Indian import, but his form still look strange, three head and three arms? any takers on why this is so?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: ^^As Doug hints, and Aubin suggests, it may be the other way around. Nile Valley influence may have been transmitted to India either directly, or via some third party, rather than India to Nile Valley, which is how similarities in the script came about. Sure you may have had travellers or traders from Asia to Egypt, but the question is- how significant are they?
You have a thesis but it is hardly confirmed. Even Aubin disagrees with you. How do you account for the similarities with the various Egyptian scripts for example? Are you saying Indian influence shaped the Egyptian script which then filtered down to the Meroites? Please post more evidence.
I am not saying that Indians influenced the Egyptian scripts I am talking about Meroitic and Demotic. Below is the Meroitic script
Here is the Demotic script:
I am still waiting for you to post the specific reasons Aubin disagrees with my hypotheses.
A comparison of the scripts show that only four Demotic signs are similar in shape and phonetic value to Meroitic writing; m, y, a, š . How is this evidence for an Egyptian origin for Meroitic cursive script when 81% of the Meroitic signs agree with Kharosthi.
I don't have to present any other evidence. What you have to do is prove that their were no Buddhist colonies in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan and that Buddhist did not use Kharosthi and Tocharian to write their scriptures.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ackee: Ok forgive me for running to Wiki.but this is what i found,swastikas were common,perhaps too common,tree of life also common but don't know if it sprang from a single original source. 3rd century B.C. king Ashoka send Buddhist missionaries to his known world including Kemet.
in another thread i mentioned Apedemak looked Indian by casual eyeballing,he still does but he seems to related to Maahes of the Medjayi.so apperently not an Indian import, but his form still look strange, three head and three arms? any takers on why this is so?
Some Indians believe that Apademak may represent Nara Hari above web page .
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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There's a difference between Hinduism and its protest offspring Buddhism and unlike the most famous icon of Apedemak, Narasimha has the normal number of limbs. Nonetheless the influence seems undeniable.
[EDIT: I have since found iconography of Narasimha with four arms, the same as the Apedemak icon on the wall of the 'Lion Temple' at Naq'a.]
I doubt if Indian spirituality skipped ancient Sudan (as most evidenced by Apedemak taking on extra faces and arms) since Gymnosophist were in Sudan and Buddhist were in both Alexandria and Axum -- ancient Sudan being 'mid-point.'
quote:Originally posted here Not proof but evidence of probability.
quote:To a great extent the rarity of Greek and Roman trade at an earlier period was due to the fact that the Homerites or Himyarites, the Arabs of the south coast of Arabia who then controlled the trade, as well as the Axumites, who were Himyaritic colonists settled on the African side of the Red Sea, desired to keep the Indian trade a monopoly for themselves and were unwilling to let any strangers into their secrets. That the Axumites participated in this trade is clear from the Buddhist monument found at Axum.
. . . .
How far Buddhism really spread into the Greek world is problematical. A Buddhist gravestone found at Alexandria and a monument definitely Buddhist in its symbols found at Axum are the Main traces, but both these places were trading ports closely connected with the Indian trade, and it would have been likely enough that an Indian merchant or traveller may have died in either place.
quote:The Aksumites controlled one of the most important trade routes in the world and occupied one of the most fertile regions in the world. Aksum lay directly in the path of the growing commercial trade routes between Africa, Arabia, and India. As a result, it became fabulously wealthy and its major cities, Adulis, Aksum, and Matara, became three of the most important cosmopolitan centers in the ancient world. An indication of this cosmopolitan character can be found in the fact that the major Aksumite cities had Jewish, Nubian, Christian, and even Buddhist minorities.
quote:Sri Lanka’s introduction to international diplomacy occured in epic circumstances when a momentous link was established in the 3rd century BC between the mighty Indian Emperor Asoka of the Mauryan dynasty and his Sri Lankan contemporary King Devanampiyatissa of Anuradhapura through the medium of the Emperor’s two personal emissaries, his son and daughter, Mahinda and Sanghamitta respectively, who brought Buddhism to Sri Lanka. Buddhism thus became the premier faith in Sri Lanka. In due course Sri Lanka became the second home of Buddhism from where it was carried to other countries. In fact, Buddhism became an impetus and an inspiration in the foreign policy of Sri Lanka.
. . . .
Sri Lanka had extensive foreign contacts which included imperial Rome, the Hellenistic kingdoms, the court of Axum in the Horn of Africa, the Sassanid kingdom in Persia, the Byzantine empire on the Western side and the maritime empire of Sri Vijaya, China, the kingdoms of Siam, Cambodia and Myanmar on the eastern side.
I really don't have time to further research this. Maybe you and others can look further into it.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: ... there is no doubt that ancient Sudan and East Africa had strong ties to India, physically and culturally. ... I would like to see more actual evidence for the Bhuddist presence in the Nile Valley in terms of actual inscriptions, writings, artwork, textiles and everything else.
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Recently I found out that the classic writers called all the peoples who were living along the Indian Ocean: Indians! This clears up some confusion from later researchers about Indians with ‘long hair’ (Indians of Asia), they had straight hair and the frizzy haired Indians (Africans).
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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. Asar on another forum provided me this reference;
quote:
“It would seem that Buddha was an Egyptian priest, chased from Memphis by the persecution of Cambyses. This tradition would justify the portrayal of Buddha with woolly hair. Historical documents do not invalidate this tradition…There is general agreement today on placing in the sixth century not only Buddha but the whole religious and philosophical movement in Asia with Confucius in China, Zoroaster in Iran. This would confirm the hypothesis of a dispersion of Egyptian priests at that time spreading their doctrine in Asia.”
Diop, The African Origin of Civilization pg 287.
Mention of Memphis is quite interested because it is here that Petrie found evidence of Buddhist colonist, which he claimed dated back to the Persian period of Egypt (c 525-405BC). he wrote:
"on the right side, at the top is the Tibetan Mongolian, below that the Aryan woman of the Punjab, and at the base a seated figure in Indian attitude with the scarf over the left shoulder. These are the first remains of Indians known on the Mediterranean. Hitherto there have been no material evidences for that connection which is stated to have existed, both by embassies from Egypt and Syria to India, and by the great Buddist mission sent by Asoka as far west as Greece and Cyrene. We seem now to have touched the Indian colony in Memphis, and we may hope for more light on that connection which seems to have been so momentous for Western thought" (p.129).
If Petrie's dating is correct this puts Buddhists in Egypt two hundred years before Asoka, sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt.
There's a difference between Hinduism and its protest offspring Buddhism and unlike the most famous icon of Apedemak, Narasimha has the normal number of limbs. Nonetheless the influence seems undeniable.
[EDIT: I have since found iconography of Narasimha with four arms, the same as the Apedemak icon on the wall of the 'Lion Temple.']
I doubt if Indian spirituality skipped ancient Sudan (as most evidenced by Apedemak taking on extra faces and arms) since Gymnosophist were in Sudan and Buddhist were in both Alexandria and Axum -- ancient Sudan being 'mid-point.'
quote:Originally posted here Not proof but evidence of probability.
quote:To a great extent the rarity of Greek and Roman trade at an earlier period was due to the fact that the Homerites or Himyarites, the Arabs of the south coast of Arabia who then controlled the trade, as well as the Axumites, who were Himyaritic colonists settled on the African side of the Red Sea, desired to keep the Indian trade a monopoly for themselves and were unwilling to let any strangers into their secrets. That the Axumites participated in this trade is clear from the Buddhist monument found at Axum.
. . . .
How far Buddhism really spread into the Greek world is problematical. A Buddhist gravestone found at Alexandria and a monument definitely Buddhist in its symbols found at Axum are the Main traces, but both these places were trading ports closely connected with the Indian trade, and it would have been likely enough that an Indian merchant or traveller may have died in either place.
quote:The Aksumites controlled one of the most important trade routes in the world and occupied one of the most fertile regions in the world. Aksum lay directly in the path of the growing commercial trade routes between Africa, Arabia, and India. As a result, it became fabulously wealthy and its major cities, Adulis, Aksum, and Matara, became three of the most important cosmopolitan centers in the ancient world. An indication of this cosmopolitan character can be found in the fact that the major Aksumite cities had Jewish, Nubian, Christian, and even Buddhist minorities.
quote:Sri Lanka’s introduction to international diplomacy occured in epic circumstances when a momentous link was established in the 3rd century BC between the mighty Indian Emperor Asoka of the Mauryan dynasty and his Sri Lankan contemporary King Devanampiyatissa of Anuradhapura through the medium of the Emperor’s two personal emissaries, his son and daughter, Mahinda and Sanghamitta respectively, who brought Buddhism to Sri Lanka. Buddhism thus became the premier faith in Sri Lanka. In due course Sri Lanka became the second home of Buddhism from where it was carried to other countries. In fact, Buddhism became an impetus and an inspiration in the foreign policy of Sri Lanka.
. . . .
Sri Lanka had extensive foreign contacts which included imperial Rome, the Hellenistic kingdoms, the court of Axum in the Horn of Africa, the Sassanid kingdom in Persia, the Byzantine empire on the Western side and the maritime empire of Sri Vijaya, China, the kingdoms of Siam, Cambodia and Myanmar on the eastern side.
I really don't have time to further research this. Maybe you and others can look further into it.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: ... there is no doubt that ancient Sudan and East Africa had strong ties to India, physically and culturally. ... I would like to see more actual evidence for the Bhuddist presence in the Nile Valley in terms of actual inscriptions, writings, artwork, textiles and everything else.
. Asar on another forum provided me this reference;
quote:
“It would seem that Buddha was an Egyptian priest, chased from Memphis by the persecution of Cambyses. This tradition would justify the portrayal of Buddha with woolly hair. Historical documents do not invalidate this tradition…There is general agreement today on placing in the sixth century not only Buddha but the whole religious and philosophical movement in Asia with Confucius in China, Zoroaster in Iran. This would confirm the hypothesis of a dispersion of Egyptian priests at that time spreading their doctrine in Asia.”
Diop, The African Origin of Civilization pg 287.
Mention of Memphis is quite interested because it is here that Petrie found evidence of Buddhist colonist, which he claimed dated back to the Persian period of Egypt (c 525-405BC). he wrote:
"on the right side, at the top is the Tibetan Mongolian, below that the Aryan woman of the Punjab, and at the base a seated figure in Indian attitude with the scarf over the left shoulder. These are the first remains of Indians known on the Mediterranean. Hitherto there have been no material evidences for that connection which is stated to have existed, both by embassies from Egypt and Syria to India, and by the great Buddist mission sent by Asoka as far west as Greece and Cyrene. We seem now to have touched the Indian colony in Memphis, and we may hope for more light on that connection which seems to have been so momentous for Western thought" (p.129).
If Petrie's dating is correct this puts Buddhists in Egypt two hundred years before Asoka, sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt.
.
Great thread Dr Winters! Thanks for the insight, I never knew about the Kemetic/Indian link before this.... I have a photo of an Afro haired buddha that I took at the British Museum because I thought it was interesting. Will post it soon...
Posts: 365 | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Thanks Altakruri,for the link.i must of missed that discussion back in my lurker status.is the above pic. from a sixties album cover?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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. Asar on another forum provided me this reference;
quote:
“It would seem that Buddha was an Egyptian priest, chased from Memphis by the persecution of Cambyses. This tradition would justify the portrayal of Buddha with woolly hair. Historical documents do not invalidate this tradition…There is general agreement today on placing in the sixth century not only Buddha but the whole religious and philosophical movement in Asia with Confucius in China, Zoroaster in Iran. This would confirm the hypothesis of a dispersion of Egyptian priests at that time spreading their doctrine in Asia.”
Diop, The African Origin of Civilization pg 287.
Mention of Memphis is quite interested because it is here that Petrie found evidence of Buddhist colonist, which he claimed dated back to the Persian period of Egypt (c 525-405BC). he wrote:
"on the right side, at the top is the Tibetan Mongolian, below that the Aryan woman of the Punjab, and at the base a seated figure in Indian attitude with the scarf over the left shoulder. These are the first remains of Indians known on the Mediterranean. Hitherto there have been no material evidences for that connection which is stated to have existed, both by embassies from Egypt and Syria to India, and by the great Buddist mission sent by Asoka as far west as Greece and Cyrene. We seem now to have touched the Indian colony in Memphis, and we may hope for more light on that connection which seems to have been so momentous for Western thought" (p.129).
If Petrie's dating is correct this puts Buddhists in Egypt two hundred years before Asoka, sent Buddhist missionaries to Egypt.
.
Great thread Dr Winters! Thanks for the insight, I never knew about the Kemetic/Indian link before this.... I have a photo of an Afro haired buddha that I took at the British Museum because I thought it was interesting. Will post it soon...
posted
Well, my Axis: Bold as Love LP cover is no more than a rip-off of the Viraat Purushan Vishnu Roopam.
Very unlike the relief of Ramses smiting a multi-ethnic multitude of enemies, it portrays all the avatars of the one beloved Vishnu, the second person of the Hindu trinity or godhead.
quote:Originally posted by ackee: Thanks Altakruri,for the link.i must of missed that discussion back in my lurker status.is the above pic. from a sixties album cover?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:You can't read either. How can 1) the edits of Asoka, 2) Flavius Philostratus, Vita Apollonii, which prove Buddhist were sent to Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan; 3)the visit of Appolonus to the Upper Egyptian and Meroitic communities of the Gymnosophists; and 4) mention of Blemmya (a native of the Meroitic Sudan) in Buddhist text be conjecture.
These are all indisputable facts
Actually it appears that you can't think logically.
Although actually you can, and you just prefer to be dishonest.
What is conjecture is your conclusion that Meroitic script is of Indo-European, and therefore *not* African origin.
Nothing you wrote above lends support to your conjecture.
If you were honest, you would admit that.
All your work amounts to is sloppy reasoning and wild minded speculations, which you use to bait naives'.
[Buddhist sent to upper Egypt, so Meriotic script is Indo-European] ??
Brilliant.
This nonsensical non-thinking is just as bad Eurocentrist who claim white-discovery of *anything*, the moment they can show that any white person was within 1 million kilometers of whatever event/entity they supposedly "discovered", which in their twist minds constitutes evidence, when it is really just tautology.
This is why you aren't taken seriously outside of the 'fan-boy' lecture circuit on the internet.
And you never will me.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:You can't read either. How can 1) the edits of Asoka, 2) Flavius Philostratus, Vita Apollonii, which prove Buddhist were sent to Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan; 3)the visit of Appolonus to the Upper Egyptian and Meroitic communities of the Gymnosophists; and 4) mention of Blemmya (a native of the Meroitic Sudan) in Buddhist text be conjecture.
These are all indisputable facts
Actually it appears that you can't think logically.
Although actually you can, and you just prefer to be dishonest.
What is conjecture is your conclusion that Meroitic script is of Indo-European, and therefore *not* African origin.
Nothing you wrote above lends support to your conjecture.
If you were honest, you would admit that.
All your work amounts to is sloppy reasoning and wild minded speculations, which you use to bait naives'.
[Buddhist sent to upper Egypt, so Meriotic script is Indo-European] ??
Brilliant.
This nonsensical non-thinking is just as bad Eurocentrist who claim white-discovery of *anything*, the moment they can show that any white person was within 1 million kilometers of whatever event/entity they supposedly "discovered", which in their twist minds constitutes evidence, when it is really just tautology.
This is why you aren't taken seriously outside of the 'fan-boy' lecture circuit on the internet.
And you never will me.
It is clear that you are incapable of following the evidence. This makes your infantile brain incapable of judging the difference between fact and conjecture.
A conjecture is "the forming of an opinion with little or no evidence, guesswork", Egyptian images of Buddhists in Egypt. Reports of Meroitic-Buddhist/Gymnosophist communities in Upper Egypt and Meroitic Sudan is hard evidence of Buddhist in the Meroitic Empire.
You are very ignorant Rasol . Since you are so stupid I will try and break it down to satisfy your child like nature.
First of all you claim that the Meroites by using Tocharian they were unfamiliar with this language and Kharosthi writing. This shows what a moron you are. It is clear that Buddhists were in Egypt 300 years before cursive Meroitic was invented. We know this to be true because Flinders (1908)found iconographic evidence of their existence at Memphis as early as the Persian period.
The Buddhist wrote their scriptures in Kharosthi script and Tocharian language. Since there were many Gymnosophist/Buddhist communities in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire there were many Meroites who were already familiar with this language and script before it was adopted as a lingua franca by Meroite elites.
The nativization of Tocharian and Kharosthi by local meroites would not have made this language foriegn to the Meroites as you assume. In fact , since the Gymnosophist were one of the minority groups in the Meroitic Empire it may have been seen as just another "Meroitic" language, much the same way Africans who may speak Malinke or Kikuyu, use French or English as a lingua franca to unify diverse ethnic groups in Senegal or Tanzania that speak different languages, or African Muslims use Arabic to communicate with Muslims in Africa, Arabia or even China.
Given the long history of Tocharian/Kharosthi as a means of communication among the Gymnosophists / Buddhist whoes scriptures were written in this language made it just one of the many languages Meroites would have been familiar with.
Something similar to this exist in Africa today. Many Africans speak and write their literature in Arabic because of their Islamic religion. It would have been only natural for Meroite-Buddists to have been able read and write Tocharian/Kharosthi much the same as literate Muslims throughout Africa do today.
You see rasol it is my ability to reason which will lead to further acceptance of my decipherement in the future. It is the evidence of your being brain dead that will relegate you to absence in any general illumination of the African past except among your fan boy club herein. A fan base which is shrinking as a result of your perpetual attacks on any knowledge you feeble brain fails to precieve.
Reference:
W. M. Flinders Petrie, The peoples of the Persian Empire, Man (1908) No.71:pp.129-130.
quote:It is clear that you are incapable of following the evidence.
^ along with the rest of the worlds respectable linguists apparently as none of them agree with you, which is why you preach to illiterate fan-boys on the internet, isn't that so?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:You are very ignorant Rasol . Since you are so stupid I will try and break it down to satisfy your child like nature.
^ actually only a child would be vexed in the least by your specious semantics.
right off the bat you go off the deep end with bogus arguments...
quote:First of all you claim that the Meroites by using Tocharian they were unfamiliar with this language and Kharosthi writing.
^ Please quote me making this claim, which i can't even make any sense out of, and certainly did not say.
If not then you here is what you just did.
-> strawman logical fallacy, and -> burden of proof fallacy
in an attempt to bolster your conjecture.... which failed miserably because I am not the *child-like* mind you need in order to be taken for something more than a laughing stock. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Please quote me making this claim, which i can't even make any sense out of, and certainly did not say.
If not then you here is what you just did.
-> strawman logical fallacy, and -> burden of proof fallacy
This is what he does [fabricating claims to pin on his opponents] to prop up his argument, without which, his arguments apparently have no legs to stand on. He's done it to Rilly, myself, and of course, now you.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Please quote me making this claim, which i can't even make any sense out of, and certainly did not say.
If not then you here is what you just did.
-> strawman logical fallacy, and -> burden of proof fallacy
This is what he does [fabricating claims to pin on his opponents] to prop up his argument, without which, his arguments apparently have no legs to stand on. He's done it to Rilly, myself, and of course, now you.
Yes indeed.
These are kiddie-debate tricks, and apparently work to confuse Winters fan-boys.
If you can't prove your own claims, then attribute fake claims to others [strawman arguments] and then state that they can't prove them.
Therefore you shift the burden of proof away from yourself and onto others.
"Hopefully" lost in the fog is the fact that -all the while- you have presented no proof whatsoever for your outrageous claims.
lol all day.
feel sorry for Winters fan-boys who can't see thru his chicanery.
at the very least - they should face the fact that this "afrocentrist" is saying that Sudan's writing is not native to Africa but rather imported via demic-defussion ultimately from Indo-Europeans.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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"In 2007 — fifty years after Griaule's death — my daughter returned from a visit to India excited to have seen aligned ritual structures called stupas that she felt resembled my Dogon granary. I pursued the resemblance and soon discovered that the cosmological symbolism of a Buddhist stupa is a point-for-point match with the symbolism reported by Griaule for the Dogon granary. In fact, the Dogon are known to have migrated to their current location from a region of North Africa that was a known home to ancient Buddhism."
posted
Very interesting. If I followed correctly, the Indian Tocharian language was transmitted to Upper Egypt through the Kharosthi Script that later on became the Meroitic Script.
The presence of gymnosophist Buddhists during the Persian period when Greeks were allowed to enter Egypt and learn Philosophy now clarifies how Pythagoras came into contact with the Egyptian, Persian and Buddhist elements of the Pythagorean Synthesis.
Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2012
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posted
There is no proof that Gymnosophists were Buddhist Gymnosophists is the name (meaning "naked philosophers") given by the Greeks to certain ancient Indian philosophers who pursued asceticism to the point of regarding food and clothing as detrimental to purity of thought (sadhus or yogis). The gymnosophists, the Greeks encountered in 3rd Century B.C. at Taxila, Pakistan an ancient center of Vedic & Buddhist learning, were probably an old sect of Hindu Naga sadhus.
The term is first used by Plutarch in the 1st century CE, when describing an encounter by Alexander the Great with ten gymnosophists near the banks of the Indus river in India - now in Pakistan.
Meroitic Writing and Literature is divided into three parts. The first part of the book explains how I used the Kushana hypothesis to decipher the Meroitic script. It will outline the Classical literature that informed my decipherment of Meroitic and how Buddhists early settled in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire and spread their religion and writing system: Tocharian.
In Part two we outline the grammar of Meroitic. It will provide readers with a detailed overview of the Meroitic language and its grammar.
Part Three provides translations of key Meroitic text. These texts provide knowledge of the lifeway’s of the Meroites especially their religion and some historical data.
The Meroitic literature discussed in this book include : The Inscriptions of Tanyidamani; The Meroitic Chamber Inscription of Philae; and Meroitic Evidence for a Blemmy Empire in the Dodekaschoinas. These text were chosen because they include text written in archaic Meroitic (Tanyidemani), and other text written in late Meroitic.
Meroitic Writing and Literature, is the first account of the Meroitic language and literature. It will allow readers the opportunity to learn how to read/decipher Meroitic text, while acquiring an intimate knowledge of the Meroites as individuals.
The Meroitic Language, provides a detailed account of the language of the Kushites who founded the Meroitic Empire. In Meroitic Language, Dr. Winters explains his decipherment of the Meroitic language and provides an outline of the grammar of the Meroitic language.
Meroitic language provides readers with the necessary tools to read the Meroitic inscriptions.It also gives the reader key insight into the culture and religion of the Kushites.
Meroitic Language can be purchased at Scribd. Purchase the full version and... • Read the full version in your browser • Send to mobile device • Download as pdf (PDF) • Download as txt (Text file)
posted
Muata Ashby wrote a great book name Egypt and India were he show the similarity between Egyptian civilisation and Indian civilisation.This book is illustrated with hundred of Egyptian pictures and symbols.He show the similarity between the symbols of those civilisations.
The Ancient Egyptian Buddha is also a good book.Clyde Winters books and Muata Ashby books are great books to collect.
Its look like Rastafirie was influence by the Indian Sadhu. The Rastaman look like Sadhu with their dreadlock and slim body.The Hindu Sadhu were the first religious group to wear dreadlocks.Reaggae or rag in sanskrit mean song.
posted
Gymnosophist Played an Important Role in meroitic Confederation
Flavius Philostratus, the writer of the Vita Apollonii, Vol.1 , claimed that the Gymnosophists of Meroe originally came from India . Given the fact that the Kushana had formerly ruled India around the time that the Meroitic writing was introduced to the Kushite civilization, led to the hypothesis that the ancestors of the Gymnosophist may have been Kushana philosophers. The historical evidence of the Kushana having ruled India made the Classical references to Indians, the Gymnosophists in Meroe, an important source for the construction of alternative theories about the possible location of the cognate language of Meroitic.
Philostratus:The Life of Apollonius of Tyana makes it clear that the Gymnosophist lived in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Empire. The Gymnosophists were Buddhists.
There were Gymnosophist communities in Upper Egypt and the Meroitic Sudan. The Gymnosophists used Tocharian and the Kharosthi script to write their scriptures. This makes it clear that Tocharian and Kharosthi were important means of communication for this Meroite population. Tocharian was therefore probably a major language in the Meroitic Sudan.
The historical evidence makes it clear that there was probably two migrations of Buddhist Gymnosophists to Egypt and the Meroitic Empire.Asoka was a supporter of Buddhism. Zacharias P. Thundy, in Buddha and Christ make it clear that the edits of Asoka (c.274-236 BC) indicate that this ruler sent missionaries to Egypt to preach the Buddhist Dharma (pp.242-243).
The Ethiopians , Greek: (Aethiopica) Αιθιοπικά , a novel written by Heliodorus provides us interesting information on the popularity of the Gymnosophist in Kush. The Greeks called Kush: Ethiopia.
Heliodorus’ Ethiopian , a love story set in Kush indicates that Buddhism was popular in the Meroitic Empire. The Ethiopian is a love story about Theagenes and Chariclea. Chariclea, was the daughter of King Hydaspes and Queen Persinna of Kush. Queen Persinna placed Chariclea in the care of Sisimithres, who was chief of the king’s Gymnosophist council. Sisimithres, a gymnosophist took the Child to Egypt and placed her in the care of Charicles, a Pythian priest, who takes Chariclea to Delphi where she meets Theagenes.
At Delphi the two young people fall in love. On their way back to Meroe they encounter numerous perils: pirates, and bandits, . Theagenes and Chariclea eventually meet at Meroe , when Chariclea is about to be sacrificed to the gods by King Hydaspes. The people learn that Chariclea was a princess, and the two lovers are happily married.
In the Ethiopian, the Gymnoophist had great influence among the people . In the Ethiopian, Heliodorus said the Gymnosophists “are of the king’s council” . They were even able to encourage the Meroites to give up human sacrifice. “ O King,” noted the gymnosophist Sisimithres, “you should long ere now concluded that the gods welcome this sacrifice that is being prepared for them... Come, let us recognize the divine miracle that has been wrought, and become collaborators in the gods’ design. Let us proceed to the holier obligations, and exclude human sacrifice for all future time” (10, 39) (Dworacki, 2009) .
At the end of the novel Heliodorus wrote that “Here ends the history of the Ethiopian adventures of Theagenes and Chariclea written by Heliodorus, a Phoenician of Emesus, son of Theodosius, and descended from the Sun." This indicates that Helliodorus was Black, since he says he was “descended from the Sun” .
In summary the classical literature makes it clear that there was a connection between the Gymnosophists (of Meroe) and the Indians. The fact that historical events mentioned in the classical sources are found in the Indian literature confirm the view that there were Indian-Meroites who could have introduced the Tokharian trade language to the Meroites. Buddhist influence in Kush surrounds the worship of the Meroitic God Apedemak. At the temple of Naqa we see a number of examples of Buddhist influence, e,g., Apedemak depicted as a three-headed leonine god with four arms; also at the Temple, Apedemak is represented as a snake coming out of a blossoming lotus with a lion head. These are all symbols of Buddhism.
The lotus in Buddhism represents purity of mind and body; the open blossom represents full enlightenment. Other Buddhist elements in Meroitic society was the footprint, elephants and Swastika seen in Meroitic iconography, and the influence of Kharosthi on the Meroitic script.
The Swastika in Buddhism means good luck, it is represented on the Stela of Meteya. The Elephant represented strength of the mind and gentleness. Finally footprints are found at numerous Meroitic sites; in Buddhism footprints represent the presence of Enlightenment , and represents the pilgrimage of the follower of Buddhism at Meroite temples. None of these religious ideas and symbolism are associated with Hinduism. You can find out more about Buddhism in Meroe in my book Meroitic Writing and Literature .
We know that Buddhism was in Meroe because 1) the presence of Kushites in Africa and Asia; 2) Asoka sent many Buddhist missionaries to Egypt who wrote their scriptures in Kharosthi and Tocharian; 3) a Blemmya--native to the Meroitic empire, is mentioned in numerous Buddhist Pali text; 4) the presence of Kushana sages in India who may have migrated to Meroe. The historical evidence make it clear that the Meroites were probably not strangers to Kharosthi literacy since the Gymnosophists had been in Upper Egypt and Meroitic Empires hundreds of years and had great influence among the Meroites as indicated by Heliodurus.
If the Gymnosophist were really well known as councilors of the Meroite Kings since Persian times, as noted by Heliodurus explains why we find Kharosthi signs in Meroitic. The Buddhist or Gymnosphist wrote their scriptures in Kharosthi, it was only natural that they would include Kharosthi signs in Meroitic when they created the new script to replace Egyptian.
References DWORACKI, S. (2009). PECULIARITIES OF THE NON-GREEK WORLD IN HELIODORUS’ AETHIOPICA. SYMBOLAE PHILOLOGORUM POSNANIENSIUM GRAECAE ET LATINAE XIX: pp. 135-141 Heliodorus An Ethiopian Romance ,Translated by Moses Hada. University of Pennsylvania Press. The Æthiopica: “Heliodorus - An Aethiopian Romance” translated by Thomas Underdowne (Anno 1587). http://www.elfinspell.com/HeliodorusTitle.htm
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