This is topic moors magic and witches. in forum Deshret at EgyptSearch Forums.


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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
hey guys since there is alot of discussions about the moors,you may find this intresting.iam quoting from the book a history of secret sociaties by arkon darul.the earliest mentions of the witches sabbats;which were also known as "synagogues" came in the eleventh century,and seem to show the assimilation of the diana cult with another: one which involves the worship of a "black man". then we have mentions of brewing of potions,rubbing on oinyments,meetings and spells at cross-roads,renouncing christianity and the use of the wax image in a death-spell. by the fifteenth century,there was a remarkable similarity between witch meeting reported or confessed to,in many countries,some without much contact with one another. reference will be made later to the "sabbat" rituals reported from sweden,spain,scotland and france. from the 7th~15th centuries the moors were ruling spain and north africa. cultral penetration from their universities into western europe was enormous; while their transltions of greek and other philosophical books posed a challenge which the theologians of the west were hard to meet during this very same period, a strange cult had arisen in morocco,crossed the strits into andaluisa, and wasactively-if secretly-followed in the centres of arab civilization with cosmopolitan populations. the latter consisted of arabized jews,christians scholors and wandering ascetics who travelled from one country to another in search of knowlage. the cult was called by the arab authorities{who tried to put it down} "the double horned", and it seemed to be connected moon-worship. it was certainly associated with magic, and its similarities to what were later reported as witch practises are very close. the devotees of this cult met on thursday nights,were initiated by having a wound inflicted somewhere on their bodies{which left a smallscar},and beleived that they could raise magical power by dancing in or around a circle. some of them claim that they at times carried out religious services which involved the saying of the moslem prayers backwards,and invoking el aswad(the black man)to help them. they served their priests, whom they saw only rarely, says the historian ibn jafar,after taking an oath of fealty of body and soul,they were drawn from all sections of the community, were of both sexes, and used ritual knives in the scarring ceremony. these knives were known as al-dhamme' or bloodletters. here is a typical initiation ceremony of the horned ones:we gathered by night, where two paths met and crossed; and he who had been so instructed bore with him a cock, which was to be sacrificed as the emblem of the new day. each carried a staff with two horns in brass upon the head; which is symbolical of the goat which is ridden,the sign of power and irresistiblity. "this meeting which is called the zabbat,the forceful or powerful one; and the circle of companions are the kafan(arabic for winding sheet). we were thus termed, because each man wears over his naked flesh during the ritual only the white plain sheet in which he will be buried. "i was given the sanctity that night, and to join with the band of the elect who would spread joy throughout the world. those of us who are companions of the rabbna(our lord) examplified by the blacksmith". in morocco to this day, blacksmiths are considered to be great sorcerers; and in the middle east in general(as well as in the arabian nights)it is the moor who is always the magician.
 

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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
man that was long,but here we go,this remind me of the post ALT and DOUG. were having about amun and berbers.quote, from another source,however, wefind that amoung the blue eyed berbers of the moroccan atlas, a similar type of cermonry is still in exant.ABDELMALIK HAROUNI,in his MUAJIZAT- IFRIQUIA wonders of africa, writing a thousand years later in constantinople, speaks of the berber sect of the horned ones, who lights fires and dance around them, each member carries a staff called the goat which he throws away during the ecstacy of the ritual dance. now here comes the european connection;it seams quite possible that medieval european witch craft was amixture of two hornism, and various folk belief from pre-christian times. in 1324,the trail of lady KYTELER in ireland brought allegations that she was a witch; that she sacrificed a red cock to one, who was called an ETHIOPEAN; the use of the name ROBIN and ROBINET; and variations is more than once found in EUROPEAN witch craft cases, the apperance of the blackman isnot uncommon. was there a connection between moors and western europe as early this? most decidedly so' and much earlier, ANGLO-SAXON coins imitating ARAB dinars of A.D.774 were struck by king OFFA. with the there is only one god ALLAH and MOHAMMAED is his messenger, the originals were minted by the caliph who ruled SPAIN. LADY Kyteler sacrificed to one robbin the above should say.
 

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Posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti} (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ A lot of intriguing stuff hashed in there [referring to your first post].
 

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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
the above post doesent it kinda remind you of the goat of mendes a cult from lower KEMET?
 

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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
yeah thanks but its hard work as i have naver log on to any chat rm. or website before, and this site require sourced info; nuff respect all you guys who do this day in and day out for years. gotta run catch ya later.
 

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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
maybe the religious reformation/jihaad carried out by the Alomravids at the closeing of the Ghanain empire,had at lot do with the 1st post.imagine a fifth coloum of African non-islamic religious ideas permeating the Islmaic empire like a virious.affecting even potentcial heathen Christian converters.
 

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Posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti} (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ackee:
the above post doesent it kinda remind you of the goat of mendes a cult from lower KEMET?

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Yes, the cult of Baphomet.


 

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Posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti} (Member # 11484) on :
 
Why does this picture bring the concept of Atum sitting on the primeval mound to mind?
 

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Posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti} (Member # 11484) on :
 
I wonder - do the hand gestures made in both pictures mean the same thing or just coincidence?




 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
The image of Bahomet is based on the ancient spiritual teachings and traditions of Africa and Asia. So it isn't odd to see a similarity. But Baphomet and most of the societies spawned from or associated with its creator were more like 19th century European cults of witchcraft or devil worship according to many.

Goats heads are a potent form of some traditions in Africa and can be found all over. Voodoo in the Americas also uses the Goats head as part of its ceremonies. You often see goats heads hanging in the butcher shops across Northern Africa.



And the star is also used on the flag of Morocco.

Satan in most of these contexts represents the nature of the human physical condition, which is to say the nature of decay, corruption and death. Decay and corruption of the mind, body and soul, which are a natural force of the physical universe, which is based on the law of opposites and opposing elements and the interaction between them, all of which enshrouds the grand mystery of the divine force of creation which is everlasting and eternal as the life force itself. This is sometimes called alchemy, where the physical nature of the universe can be decoded revealing the true nature of the soul and spirit. Focusing on and tapping into the life force or spirit essence of all life allows one to transcend the pressures and force of decay of the physical and experience oneness with all creation, which is considered divine bliss in most systems.
 

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Posted by ANTIBODY{herukhuti} (Member # 11484) on :
 
Can you tell me what the hand gestures mean (especially with regards to the Buddhist statue)?
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Basically it means greetings I come in peace and goodwill. In Bhuddism it is also the form of the teacher (the lower left hand). The symbolism of Baphomet's hands are similar but more akin to so above, as below, IMO, meaning macrocosm in the microcosm.

quote:

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Abhaya in Sanskrit means fearlessness. Thus this mudra symbolizes protection, peace, and the dispelling of fear. It is made with the right hand raised to shoulder height, the arm crooked, the palm of the hand facing outward, and the fingers upright and joined. The left hand hangs down at the side of the body. In Thailand, and especially in Laos, this mudra is associated with the movement of the walking Buddha (also called 'the Buddha placing his footprint'). It is nearly always used in images showing the Buddha upright, either immobile with the feet joined, or walking.

...
This mudra, which initially appears to be a natural gesture, was probably used from prehistoric times as a sign of good intentions - the hand raised and unarmed proposes friendship, or at least peace; since antiquity, it was a plain way of showing that you meant no harm since you did not carry any weapon.
...
But it is not just the divine Buddha who is credited with making mudras. Every position assumed and every gesture performed by our mortal body may be said to imprint its seal on the Ether, and sent forth a continuous stream of vibrations that impress the atmosphere. But to be really effective there must be a deliberate and intended arrangement of the body or parts of the body. Such an arrangement is nothing but the yoga of mudra. It is interpreted as being able to bring the physiological system in harmony with the cosmic forces and so form a magical microcosm through which the macrocosm can be represented, channeled, and utilized. The mudra in all its variations is, therefore, a traditional body pattern; an archetypal posture of performed occult significance.

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From: http://www.lotussculpture.com/mudras.htm

This is basically the meaning (peace, goodwill, bestowing blessings) of the same gesture seen in many of the ancient Egyptian portraits with the deities and the pharaoh shown with a raised hand.
 

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Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
 
Hi Doug and Antibody,thanks for your input. you see i bought this up because Doug made some very excellent connections between Moors and folks south and east of the moors and Europe,including high fashions,and even music.also i wanted to show that African sprituralism rode on the under belly of Islam and enter Europe in ways unexpected, even when some Euros try to reject the Abramic faith,as something alien to Europe and in turn embrace the wickers as something more natural and European they dont even relaize they are inpart engageing in a very old African thing". and the thing about is as per the second part of the post the cult was introduced at a specific time.Doug i thought about adding this thread to your Moors post but i dident want to cause clutter.like i said excellent post you made
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Antibody, don't be so quick to draw similarities with any religious icon to Egyptian myth. Next thing you know we'll be contemplating Satanic symbols with Horus symbols.
 

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Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
 
^ you seem to be alone in your efforts at denying Egyptian influence on the various world spiritual concepts.
 

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Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
 
^ The Robot is not alone.
American Panties will surely side with Robbie.

Bacchus and Pan are taken directly from the Isis tales.
 

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Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
 
Oh yes, how could I forget Mary's professor the Patriot. I must say despite the nuance, they are both purity advocates and therefore seem to be running away from something.


 

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Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
 
A True Dat!
But robotic legs cannot run very far, or very swiftly.

Even the snake as Satan was taken from the Egyptian Set and repackaged as the first temptation of Adam & Eve.

"True," replied Isis. "Set is so wickedly cunning
that I know not whether he may one day find out some countercharm to my enchantments.

The Greeks repackaged and assigned Set the name, Typhon, who was the nemesis of Zeus.
Zeus battled with the ancient monster and overcame him, in a complicated but very familiar story:
It was not an easy battle, and Typhon temporarily overcame Zeus, cut the "sinews" from him and left him in the "leather sack", or Corycian Cave in which Zeus suffers temporary eclipse as if in the Land of the Dead.
 

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Posted by Akiba ben Joseph (Member # 16302) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
don't be so quick to draw similarities with any religious icon to Egyptian myth. Next thing you know we'll be contemplating Satanic symbols with Horus symbols.

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quote:

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Minibrainer wrote:

A True Dat!
But robotic legs cannot run very far, or very swiftly.

Even the snake as Satan was taken from the Egyptian Set and repackaged as the first temptation of Adam & Eve.

"True," replied Isis. "Set is so wickedly cunning
that I know not whether he may one day find out some countercharm to my enchantments.

The Greeks repackaged and assigned Set the name, Typhon, who was the nemesis of Zeus.
Zeus battled with the ancient monster and overcame him, in a complicated but very familiar story:
It was not an easy battle, and Typhon temporarily overcame Zeus, cut the "sinews" from him and left him in the "leather sack", or Corycian Cave in which Zeus suffers temporary eclipse as if in the Land of the Dead.

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quote:

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assopen crapped:

you seem to be alone in your efforts at denying Egyptian influence on the various world spiritual concepts.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

... after the death of Aristotle, his Athenian
pupils, without the authority of the state,
undertook to compile a history of philosophy,
recognized at that time as the Sophia or Wisdom
of the Egyptians, which had become current and
traditional in the ancient world, which compilation,
because it was produced by pupils who had belonged
to Aristotle's school, later history has erroneously
called Greek philosophy, in spite of the fact that
the Greeks were its greatest enemies and persecutors,
and had persistently treated it as a foreign innovation.
For this reason, the so-called Greek philosophy is stolen
Egyptian philosophy, which first spread to Ionia, thence
to Italy and thence to Athens. And it must be remembered
that at this remote period of Greek history, i.e., Thales to
Aristotle 640 B.C.–322 B.C., the Ionians were not Greek
citizens, but at first Egyptian subjects and later Persian
subjects.

Any other claim as to what James means is spurious and results from not reading what James himself explains is meany by the phrase 'stolen legacy.'

Now, why is Greek Philosophy called stolen Egyptian Philosophy?

Because later historians labelled it after Athenian compilations.

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Now. How many times am I to discredit you?!
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ackee:
Hi Doug and Antibody,thanks for your input. you see i bought this up because Doug made some very excellent connections between Moors and folks south and east of the moors and Europe,including high fashions,and even music.also i wanted to show that African sprituralism rode on the under belly of Islam and enter Europe in ways unexpected, even when some Euros try to reject the Abramic faith,as something alien to Europe and in turn embrace the wickers as something more natural and European they dont even relaize they are inpart engageing in a very old African thing". and the thing about is as per the second part of the post the cult was introduced at a specific time.Doug i thought about adding this thread to your Moors post but i dident want to cause clutter.like i said excellent post you made

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Mr. Minenarmer wrote:

A True Dat!
But robotic legs cannot run very far, or very swiftly.

Even the snake as Satan was taken from the Egyptian Set and repackaged as the first temptation of Adam & Eve.

"True," replied Isis. "Set is so wickedly cunning
that I know not whether he may one day find out some countercharm to my enchantments.

The Greeks repackaged and assigned Set the name, Typhon, who was the nemesis of Zeus.
Zeus battled with the ancient monster and overcame him, in a complicated but very familiar story:
It was not an easy battle, and Typhon temporarily overcame Zeus, cut the "sinews" from him and left him in the "leather sack", or Corycian Cave in which Zeus suffers temporary eclipse as if in the Land of the Dead.

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Actually Set was never portrayed as a snake, you are likely confused with Apepi. Set was portrayed as an unidentified mammalian animal and if not, a hippopotamus. The identification of Zeus with Amon and Set with Typhon came much later and again it was an identification the Greeks made and NOT exact Egyptian origins.

Typhon was a monster born from Gaea (Earth) along with his sister Echidna. Set was a god who was brother of Ausar (Osiris) and born from the Heavens. There was little if any relations to Amun who was a primal deity.

quote:

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assopen crapped:

you seem to be alone in your efforts at denying Egyptian influence on the various world spiritual concepts.

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I never deny any Egyptian influences where they exist, moron.

From Stolen Legacy

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

... after the death of Aristotle, his Athenian
pupils, without the authority of the state,
undertook to compile a history of philosophy,
recognized at that time as the Sophia or Wisdom
of the Egyptians, which had become current and
traditional in the ancient world, which compilation,
because it was produced by pupils who had belonged
to Aristotle's school, later history has erroneously
called Greek philosophy, in spite of the fact that
the Greeks were its greatest enemies and persecutors,
and had persistently treated it as a foreign innovation.
For this reason, the so-called Greek philosophy is stolen
Egyptian philosophy, which first spread to Ionia, thence
to Italy and thence to Athens. And it must be remembered
that at this remote period of Greek history, i.e., Thales to
Aristotle 640 B.C.–322 B.C., the Ionians were not Greek
citizens, but at first Egyptian subjects and later Persian
subjects.

Any other claim as to what James means is spurious and results from not reading what James himself explains is meany by the phrase 'stolen legacy.'

Now, why is Greek Philosophy called stolen Egyptian Philosophy?

Because later historians labelled it after Athenian compilations.

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Now. How many times am I to discredit you?! [/QB]

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quote:

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A cult, closely similar in some respects to witchdraft, had crossed from Morocco into Andalusia. The Arabs called it “The Two Horned Ones”, and it seemed to be connected with moon worship, the reference not being to horned animals but the horned moon. The Moslems had, of course, gotten as far as France before they were stopped in their western advance, and there is no doubt about early influence from north Africa. Anglo-Saxon coins dated 774 AD imitating Arab dinars minted by the Caliph of Spain—even to the ’There is Only Allah and Mohammed is his Messenger’—were struck by King Offa.

The Moslem historian, Ibn Jafar, described some aspects of the Moroccan sect but seemed reluctant to say much. Its devotees were initiated with a cut from a ritual knife which left a scar somewhere on the body, and they believed some power came from dancing in a circle. They took an oath of fealty of body and soul to their priests, whom they saw only rarely. Devotees were both men and women, and from all social classes. They met by night…

…where two paths met and crossed, and he who had been so instructed bore with him a cock, which was to be sacrificed as the emblem of the new day. Each carried a staff with the two horns in brass upon the head, which is symbolical of the goat which is ridden, the sign of power and irresistibility. This is the meeting which is called the Zabbat, the Forceful or Powerful one, and the circle of companions are the Kafan. We were thus termed, because each man wears over his naked flesh during the ritual only the white, plain sheet in which he will be buried. I was to be given the sanctity that night, and to join the band of the elect who would spread joy throughout the world, those of us who are companions of the Rabbana (our Lord) exemplified by the blacksmith. Small drums beat as we twelve came into the circle which had been drawn in the dust. Two dervishes in their white kafans taught us the chant of Iwwaiy, which we repeated to the drums. Then, the end of the kafan over our shoulders was put over our heads, and we whirled in dance until there was a loud shout. At this our eyes were uncovered, and we saw that the leader had appeared.
Cited by Arkon Daraul, Secret Societies

The devotees had to swear allegiance to this Rabbana, and the cock was sacrificed by cutting its throat. Each initiate was cut in turn on the arm. The dance continued anti-clockwise ending in ecstasy. Abdelmalik Harouni writes of the “Berber sect of the horned ones”, who drink wine, light fires and dance around them, each one carrying a staff called the goat which he discards during the ecstasy of the dance. They swear allegiance to a chief at a ceremony in which they renounce any other religion, and their parents and relatives. They believe in a higher lord called Dhulqarnen—the “Two-Horned One” or “He of the Two Centuries”, the reference to two centuries pertaining to each Rabbana remaining active beyond his death for two hundred years in total. He continues after death as an inspirational spirit guiding the work of others, but himself still learning by experience, until he is reincarnated again in a form closer to ultimate perfection.

A Persian sect called the Maskhara (Revellers) danced madly to induce ecstasy, used henbane to produce visions, and gave the world the word “masquerade”, because they dressed in animal masks, blacked their faces and pretended to be supernatural creatures. The face-blacking substance is called “mascara”! In 1518 AD, Johannes de Tabia described the Maskhara as a sect of witches, and masquerades were soon to become popular.

The objectives of these cults were first liberation of people from the stifling hand of the Catholic Church, and second the replacement of Catholicism by their new faith. In Switzerland, the “devil” told seven hundred witches at a meeting in 1428 that they would have their own laws, and would overthrow Christianity! Plainly, ordinary devotees did not know the details of the belief, just as many modern Christians do not know the theology of Christianity. The priests, pastors or perfects who led the sabbats, and were called devils by the inquisitors, were the ones who knew the theology, and ordinary members had to obey him. They would hardly have done so if they were beaten and abused as some of the reports of the inquisitors made out. They did so gladly knowing that they achieved some release, catharsis or ecstasy through the rituals.

Indications showing that the cult was religious come from earlier records, before the clergy became obsessed with the allegation of Devil wordship. Observers seem to record a secret ritual. In January of 1091 AD, Father Gualchelm of St Albin’s Church, at Angers, reported a large crowd of people, on horseback and on foot, passing by. “This is the Harlechim, of whom I have heard, but in which I did not believe.”

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianheresy/0819Inquisition.php

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
How many times am I to discredit you?!

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How many times must you embarrass yourself Mary running away from your fate? Professor James specifically said in his book that Aristotle wanted to usurp Egyptian wisdom and this was carried out by his school. (pg. 14) Hence according to James the stolen legacy was first carried out by the ancient Greeks.

Now, you were specifically asked in the thread to back up claims not only in relation to the library at Alexandria but also your claims about Archaic versus Classical philosophers. So are you going to keep avoiding your fate Mary or are you going to click below and enter the house that haunts you?


 

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Posted by Akiba ben Joseph (Member # 16302) on :
 
Pan was celebrated as the author and director of the sacred dances which he is supposed to have instituted to symbolize the circumambulations of the heavenly bodies. Pan was a composite creature, the upper part - with the exception of his horns - being human, and the lower part in the form of a goat. Pan is the prototype of natural energy and a phallic deity. The pipes of Pan signify the natural harmony of the spheres, and the god himself is a symbol of Saturn because this planet is enthroned in Capricorn, whose emblem is a goat. The Egyptians were intitated into the Mysteries of Pan, who was regarded as a phase of Jupiter, the Demiurgus.

Pan represented the impregnating power of the sun. He also signified the controlling spirit of the lower worlds.

Pan sheds a whole world of light on the popular phrase "horny goat".
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Sorry the Egyptians had various deities that became associated with pan: Bes, Min, Geb, Amun, Heru and others. Bes was associated with music, dancing and wine and the others all represented the demiurge in various forms as well has being associated with stars and planets.
 

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