posted
Welcome to the board, nomorelies. This issue was discussed all too many times and the veteran posters here already know about craniofacial diversity among humans in general and Africans specifically. There is no such thing as "caucasoid" as there is "negroid" or "mongoloid" etc.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I know the "veterans" know it. Most educated people know it. This is for those to follow who are totally ignorant of the fact.
You can tell these people in words or pictures a thousand times, but to see it in action, showing off their culture, can say what words cannot.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Actually some "veterans" do lapse from time to time into staple Eurocentric themes like differentiations between Kushites and Egyptians based on phenotype.
posted
For me the video,s is less to do about "Crainal Anthroploggy" than the actual music & dance esp; of the Somalia women. I'm sure many of you have seen the dancing girls of ancient Egypt from tomb murals. Well, the women from Somalia & Ethiopia along with the music & hand clapping reminded me of those scenes. Do we know how the music of AE sounded? My guess very much like the music heard from the Somalia & Ethiopia on these video's !
It was like being transported back in time to Ancient Egypt, to a small celabration in some ones home with laughter, food, drink,& libation of incense to the Goddess Bess in the air.
Also the booty shaking seems much in alignment with the dancing girls on the murals. One of the things that lets me know that the AE could not have been white from all the readings I have done is; that they were not as hung up about the body or sex, thus partial nudity was common for women dancers as can be seen on the tomb drawings & paintings. Posts: 135 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ And yet doesn't anybody even whites themselves see the oxymoron in "black cacazoid"?!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nomorelies: ^^ Exactly why I thought videos are better than just pictures.
They completely destroy the "black caucasoid" idea more completely than even DNA research.
Pictures are useful in conjunction with data, and the ability to analyse data.
They cannot replace data -> or substitute for critical thinking.
Indeed selective picture spam, with no data, are the favorite format for troll arguments, because they are anti-intellectual, and so appeal to the not very bright.
My favorite example comes from "Racial Reality" who, in order to prove that the original East African population was "caucasoid", posted a picture of an Australian woman - with the caption, "Somali".
Technically this was accurate, because her name was indeed, "Somali". Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I feel like some people's problem with the "true negro myth" is a disdain for "true negro" features. It's obvious that only certain features are glorified in Africa, and such are the ones that Euro beauty standards have taught us to prefer.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Aug 2008
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True, we alll know that Human beings are the same species and their is too little variation amoung the different species for races to exist. If we forget the enviromental factor and the cultural elements..we would see that humans like all other species of animals...especially mammals...behave in simular universal acts and believe in essential universal human ideas.
The variation in Africa should be a nail in the heart of Racialist propaganda....
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Perhaps you (Boofer) are just projecting your own thoughts onto ..
quote:Originally posted by Boofer: ehhh...this thread could have been better.
I feel like some people's problem with the "true negro myth" is a disdain for "true negro" features. It's obvious that only certain features are glorified in Africa, and such are the ones that Euro beauty standards have taught us to prefer.
Know the world in yourself. Never look for yourself in the world, for this would be to project your illusion. - AE proverb
******
Actually, True Negro is just a dubious attempt at mind apartheid.
In some cases, white supremacy just tries to lay claim to what others possess to posess it in their own arsenal. They've claim to have given "caucasian hair" to people with straighter hair than theirs (South and East Asians). They claim to have given "caucasoid features" to people who have had such features before Europe was even populated or before people ever dispersed from Africa.
In the case of Africa, since they'd like to claim everything/anything, "True negroid" (true black?) features are just things that are so obviously non EUropean white that it would be rediculous to claim them.
In other mental apartheid-type cases, white supremacy necessitates for anti-intellectualism and athleticism to be within the "black" domain, and things like organization and controll and intellectual endeavors to be outside of it and "for whites"... and it seems to have psychologically jailed quite a few.
you can let them define you if you want to though...
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
^ How so? I believe Boofer was only pointing out a valid fact of white racism and Eurocentric imperialism. It's sad that even some Africans are affected by it and I'm not just talking about features. Look at how some Africans in the formerly colonised countries bleach their skins.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Originally posted by nomorelies: ^^ Exactly why I thought videos are better than just pictures.
They completely destroy the "black caucasoid" idea more completely than even DNA research.
Pictures are useful in conjunction with data, and the ability to analyse data.
They cannot replace data -> or substitute for critical thinking.
Indeed selective picture spam, with no data, are the favorite format for troll arguments, because they are anti-intellectual, and so appeal to the not very bright.
Correct. I forgot to point out that pictures and videos canNOT possibly substitute scientific findings such as DNA research which is always more valid. For example, what do you say to some ignorant folks who agree that the people in the videos are all black Africans but that they might have "caucasoid" ancestry? Culture is irrelevant at this point. Only scientific, specifically biological studies in the form of genetics can utterly destroy such nonsense.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Mind you all that the 'true negro' race myth was first contrived to seperate black Africans. Thus whites can say that Egyptians who were creators of the earliest civilization in the world were indeed African and were even black but not of the same 'race' as the inferior Africans whom we enslave-- thus was the very notion that white Westerners told themselves.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ How so? I believe Boofer was only pointing out a valid fact of white racism and Eurocentric imperialism. It's sad that even some Africans are affected by it and I'm not just talking about features. Look at how some Africans in the formerly colonised countries bleach their skins.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Originally posted by nomorelies: ^^ Exactly why I thought videos are better than just pictures.
They completely destroy the "black caucasoid" idea more completely than even DNA research.
Pictures are useful in conjunction with data, and the ability to analyse data.
They cannot replace data -> or substitute for critical thinking.
Indeed selective picture spam, with no data, are the favorite format for troll arguments, because they are anti-intellectual, and so appeal to the not very bright.
Correct. I forgot to point out that pictures and videos canNOT possibly substitute scientific findings such as DNA research which is always more valid. For example, what do you say to some ignorant folks who agree that the people in the videos are all black Africans but that they might have "caucasoid" ancestry? Culture is irrelevant at this point. Only scientific, specifically biological studies in the form of genetics can utterly destroy such nonsense.
Gotta respectfully disagree. Even with those with proven euro/arab ancestry, you cannot deny ones cultural or race affinity no matter how "white/arab" some ignorant want to make them. There are many many black americans with yellow skin and obvious european ancestry, yet many of them (Malcolm X) are "blacker" than some blacks (Alan Keyes). A eurocentric would be presently surprised upon meeting Malcom X as opposed to studying his DNA.
Culture and race affinity show what cannot be mis-read, or mis-defined by scientist who may not understand what they are reading or deciphering.
This also is no attmept to discredit the "true negro" per se. It rather shows that the "true negro" is not a sole definition as eurocentrocs want us to believe. Simply a divisive tactic where the glory only goes to ones that look most like northern europeans. As if they hold patent. They do not! There is no one image that "truly" defines that black African phenotype. African people's continuum is just as vast, if not indeginously larger than most others.
Just as I asked that closet racist Mathilda on her site---what then is the "true caucasoid"? What is the "true asian"? Why is it only "negroids" that have a "true" type? She has no discernable answer other than convoluted blabber. No one does because it doesn't exist.
Honestly Boofer, what must I show to project the "true negro/negroid"? What special group amongst African people hold this title? Who gives the definition of such a thing? Let me know.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Mind you all that the 'true negro' race myth was first contrived to seperate black Africans. Thus whites can say that Egyptians who were creators of the earliest civilization in the world were indeed African and were even black but not of the same 'race' as the inferior Africans whom we enslave-- thus was the very notion that white Westerners told themselves.
White westerns like Sforza and Bowcock you mean? They obviously propagate this myth.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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^ Maybe in their old works but not in their new ones, which by the way still show Europeans to be mixed. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ And that is Punt according to what sources??! Is this some new archaeological find or something?? According to depictions from the tomb of Hatshepsut, Punt stretched from the Red Sea coast inland where the main settlement was apparently in a jungle environment. Was that area in those Google maps, jungle or savannah?? I'm confused, since when was Punt actually discovered since archaeologists are still looking for it??
Also, the Egyptian populace constituted various groups which did not have a single origin. There were actually two main origins-- farther south in the Horn and from the West in the Sahara. There is even evidence of a possible third origin in the eastern deserts-- all of which is African.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Yeah right. Both of you discovered 'Punt', especially Oknaw who only a while ago claimed it was in India.
I notice the area in your google map has Punt in Sudan and not in the Eritrean coast. But tell me more about it when you get those artifacts. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
nomorelies wrote: ------------------------------ There are many many black americans with yellow skin and obvious european ancestry ------------------------------
How do you know? Based on what?
Are you saying that Africans cannot have "yellow" skin? If not, why?
If so, then why would African Americans with "yellow" skin not have gotten it from Africans who have so called "yellow" skin?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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nomorelies wrote: ------------------------------ There is no one image that "truly" defines that black African phenotype. African people's continuum is just as vast, if not indeginously larger than most others. ------------------------------
Then why do you believe that African Americans cannot reflect that diversity without "european ancestry"? And since that is your belief doesn't it validate what Eurocentrics say about the diversity of Africans? I.E. the white man created it.
It sounds like you believe in white propaganda and diffusion myths such as the hamitic theory. The question now is why?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alive wrote: -------------------------------- In the case of Africa, since they'd like to claim everything/anything, "True negroid" (true black?) features are just things that are so obviously non EUropean white that it would be rediculous to claim them. --------------------------------
Damn, Jeeves finally said something intelligent.
However, I will add this correction. 99.9% of human features are not European to begin with. So it is a misnomer to declare features as non-European to begin with as if they are template of humanity.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Jari-Ankhamun wrote: ----------------------------------- The variation in Africa should be a nail in the heart of Racialist propaganda.... -----------------------------------
How so when you not only believe in the "True Negro" anthropology myth, you have even went so far as to create pseudohistory with regards to that deranged myth?
Why have you bought into sick anthropological ideas but also parrot equally sick racial pseudohistory based on said anthropology as well?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Honestly Boofer, what must I show to project the "true negro/negroid"? What special group amongst African people hold this title? Who gives the definition of such a thing? Let me know.
In my opinion, it would have been better if you included West Africans, Bantus and Nilotes to show diversity. We all know that there is no true negro, but you omitted a great deal of populations when you included only Afro-Asiatic and Khoi-san speakers. Why is that so?
Posts: 72 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: nomorelies wrote: ------------------------------ There are many many black americans with yellow skin and obvious european ancestry ------------------------------
How do you know? Based on what?
Are you saying that Africans cannot have "yellow" skin? If not, why?
If so, then why would African Americans with "yellow" skin not have gotten it from Africans who have so called "yellow" skin?
Argyle? Are you dense?
Firstly, to admit the reality that many African-Americans have european/native american ancestry does not nullify the diversity of Africna people back on the continent. It's almost absurd that I have to explain this.
Secondly, I know of what I speak. This does not come solely out of a book. Those of mixed ancestry where I live are called "creoles", or "passant blanc". Most of them have French surnames like Glapion and Gremillion. I've also documents from the 1800s where slaves were auctioned and even raffled. There is even a document were 10 slaves were on auction....ALL of them "mulatto/mulatress", ages 7 to 45.
I didn't say ALL blacks with yellow skin were of mixed ancestry, I said "many many". Whether rape (most) or consentual, that is main reason for the "high yellow" in AMERICA since this is a WHITE country. America isn't Mali or South Africa. HUGE population of whites are here.
With that said, the main point I made is that even with mixed DNA ancestry, it does little to affect a person's racial affinity/culture, therefore people like Mathilda (or Flanders Petrie) are in a no-win situation whether truly mixed or not.
You understand that?
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Honestly Boofer, what must I show to project the "true negro/negroid"? What special group amongst African people hold this title? Who gives the definition of such a thing? Let me know.
In my opinion, it would have been better if you included West Africans, Bantus and Nilotes to show diversity. We all know that there is no true negro, but you omitted a great deal of populations when you included only Afro-Asiatic and Khoi-san speakers. Why is that so?
Why must I have included "West Africans, 'Bantus', and Nilotes"? Which West Africans? Nigerians, Ghanaians, or Senegalese? What is a "Bantu" to you? Which Nilotes? Tutsis, Maasai, or Nuba? Don't you know there are differences within these groups? Can you see how what you are asking makes no sense?
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Honestly Boofer, what must I show to project the "true negro/negroid"? What special group amongst African people hold this title? Who gives the definition of such a thing? Let me know.
In my opinion, it would have been better if you included West Africans, Bantus and Nilotes to show diversity. We all know that there is no true negro, but you omitted a great deal of populations when you included only Afro-Asiatic and Khoi-san speakers. Why is that so?
Why must I have included "West Africans, 'Bantus', and Nilotes"? Which West Africans? Nigerians, Ghanaians, or Senegalese? What is a "Bantu" to you? Which Nilotes? Tutsis, Maasai, or Nuba? Don't you know there are differences within these groups? Can you see how what you are asking makes no sense?
It makes no sense? What doesn't make sense? I'm simply saying that it would have made more sense to show a myriad of the different African populations, as well as the ones usually associated called "true negroids." This would give the impression that Africans are phenotypically diverse, even those that people would call "true negroid."
quote:Originally posted by Nebsen: For me the video,s is less to do about "Crainal Anthroploggy" than the actual music & dance esp; of the Somalia women. I'm sure many of you have seen the dancing girls of ancient Egypt from tomb murals. Well, the women from Somalia & Ethiopia along with the music & hand clapping reminded me of those scenes. Do we know how the music of AE sounded? My guess very much like the music heard from the Somalia & Ethiopia on these video's !
It was like being transported back in time to Ancient Egypt, to a small celabration in some ones home with laughter, food, drink,& libation of incense to the Goddess Bess in the air.
Also the booty shaking seems much in alignment with the dancing girls on the murals. One of the things that lets me know that the AE could not have been white from all the readings I have done is; that they were not as hung up about the body or sex, thus partial nudity was common for women dancers as can be seen on the tomb drawings & paintings.
This is just the same type of dancing done by AAs. There is no difference.
posted
Well, posterns undisputed, it's the Soukous music that IDs the videos as Central African. I also think this type of popular dance is a cultural backflow from the Americas, the West Indies in particular. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21dN-IWc9jU
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Well, posterns undisputed, it's the Soukous music that IDs the videos as Central African. I also think this type of popular dance is a cultural backflow from the Americas, the West Indies in particular. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21dN-IWc9jU
^^ Those videos you listed as "West African" is a Congolese thing (Central). Can spot their colorful asses a mile away.
Even though it's like the Africa wide club thing. Seen Ethiopian girls do it too.
Honestly, I don't think it has any western influence. Congolese been making that music for a long time. It's just about the only dance I see when I go "club-hopping" over there.
Once the music video spread, it caught on all over. It must just be that PN2 thing Keita was talking about?
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Well of course Soukous has a western influence from the Rumba which in turn has an African influence. But it was more the ass gyrations in popular dance that I was speaking of. Before the Butterfly and the Tootsie Roll that type of hip gyration was not in popular dance.
Party after party and I did not see it. Yes there was brushing of buttocks against lap but none of this what the girls are doing today. There was something close to it but it was ceremonial and was taught to nubile girls at full puberty for obvious reasons.
And certainly not pre-1990's Amhara Ethiopia where girls danced moving shoulders, neck, and head not the lower body.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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For someone who has been listening to Michael Jackson since he was in the womb and, was addicted to Hip-Hop by the age of 9, I can say with UTMOST CERTAINTY that music & dance from the diaspora (notably Jamaican & African-American) has all but influenced/infiltrated the very core of modern African music, most especially in the pop arena.
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: For someone who has been listening to Michael Jackson since he was in the womb and, was addicted to Hip-Hop by the age of 9, I can say with UTMOST CERTAINTY that music & dance from the diaspora (notably Jamaican & African-American) has all but influenced/infiltrated the very core of modern African music, most especially in the pop arena.
But hip-hop and dances in the diaspora were influenced by those from the mother land to begin with. Not in an exact way, but story telling through poetry always been popular in african countries. Particulary Somalia and Senegal.
I don't know that Amharas have only ever danced from the waist up, and outside influence was in Ethiopia prior to the 1990s. Some of the best jazz music I've heard was made in Ethiopia for a short time in the 60s and 70s.
The very fact that we are having this conversation just destroys this one-track "negroid" thing many of us have fallen taken from white "scholars".
Posts: 100 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Nigeria's number one pop star uses production methods attributable to modern Afro-American music and just peep the unapologetic TPAIN-ization of this track: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WWNZh2T70UkPosts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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