This paper is associated with the Italian Archaeological Mission in Libya directed by Prof. Savino Di Lernia. The general thesis of this research paper claims that modern North African Berbers are defined by high frequencies of Iberian mtDNA (maternal lineages). Ottoni attributes this to a post last glacial maximum migration from Iberia to NW Africa. From an archaeological perspective there is no evidence of population movements from Iberia to NW Africa during the Early to Mid-Holocene. Linguistically, Berbers speak an Afro-Asiatic language which derived somewhere between NE Africa and the Horn of Africa. Finally and most importantly, Berber men are defined by the African haplogroup E-M81 which has a Bronze Age dating. E-M81 is a sub-lineage of the Sub-Saharan derived lineage E-M35* (E1b1b). Iberian men in turn are defined by the male lineage R1b and I1b2. These lineages are found in low to nil frequencies in North West African populations.
This implies an asymmetrical mating pattern. So the question becomes what model best explains this pattern of asymmetrical mating in NW Africa:
1) An early Holocene movement of Iberians into NW Africa during the prehistoric era. 2) Historic relations between NW Africans and Iberians between the Carthaginian period and the expulsion of the Moors from Spain.
Scenario #1
Under scenario # 1 the Iberians would have moved into NW Africa sometime during the early Holocene (~ 10kya). Assuming this migration included both male and female Iberians one would expect to find men carrying Iberian lineages R1b and I1b2 in NW Africa during the early Holocene. Haplogroup E-M81 derived during the Bronze Age. This lineage derived from Sub-Saharan African derived lineage E-M35*. Hence one would expect the ancestral pool of E-M81 carrying men to have mothers with Sub-Saharan derived mtDNA, unless it was the population of men carrying Sub-Saharan African derived lineage E-M35* that mated with women carrying Iberian derived mtDNA. But one must ask, what happened to the Iberian derived men? Was there a neolithic war for resources in the Sahara that wiped-out the Iberian derived men and allowed the Sub-Saharan derived men to mate with Iberian derived women? And why were Iberian derived women preferred over the women indigenous to the E-M35* gene pool? This seems unlikely, as Africans were/are matrilineal and would have given preference to the women carrying the ancestral heritage.
Scenario #2
Under scenario # 2 the NW Africans would have moved into Iberia sometime during the historic era and NW African men would have been isolated from African women and have privileged status to have access to Iberian women. This is what we see during the Carthaginian period and during the Islamic period in Al-Andalusia. NW African soldiers, far away from home and serving as occupying forces would have had privilege to Iberian women over indigenous Iberian men and would not have access to African women. Hence, they would have mated with Iberian women. Over time there may have also been a preference for Iberian women because of unique phenetic traits found in Europeans (i.e., exotica).
Scenario # 2 seems to be the most parsimonious explanation. But why would this scholar want to posit Iberians in early Holocene NW Africa? The answer is it gives those with a Eurocentric agenda a gateway to the neolithic Sahara and in turn a gateway to Ancient Egypt, as the Ancient Egyptians primary ancestry comes from the Eastern Sahara. This in turn circumvents (i.e., flanks) the position espoused by Martin Bernal and others that Western Civilization was founded with roots in Black Africa.
Also, note that Ottoni claims to have failed to genetically analyze the ancient individuals from the Fezzan. Yet, in an earlier study (“Sand, Stones, and Bones”) associated with Dr. Di Lernia one Garamante subject was analyzed and the mtDNA was fully characterized and was found to be a member of the African haplotype L3. This is consistent with the derivation of E-M81 from a population associated with Sub-Saharan derived E-M35* and an associated pool of Sub-Saharan derived maternal lineages.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
It is funny how much of European scholarship is based around an attempt to support an historic agenda as opposed to being an "objective" search for the facts.
Sure, of course there has been some gene flow across the Mediterranean. But that has to be put into context. The FIRST gene flows were FROM Africa and into Europe. Which means that the first populations of Northern Africa were ALL Africans, obviously. So it is impossible to claim that such folks derive from Eurasians. However, that doesn't stop some people from trying to reinforce this nonsense view of ancient North Africans being derived from some migration of white folks from 10-20,000 years ago, which doesn't even make sense. As if the Sahara COULD ONLY have been populated by people from FAR AWAY in Europe, but not from right there in Africa.... It simply goes against Occam's razor, especially considering that migrations to Europe make sense in the context of an expanding desert in Northern Africa, as opposed to migrations from a more lush temperate environment to a desert.
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The study makes it clear that it only relates to the modern Taureg population because they were unable to recover genetic material from the ancient bones.
I found that in the conclusion he did not really makes any sweeping claims about his research. This is good, but the title suggest that the paper is about an Holocene population when the author makes it cleare he has not evidence to support any conclusions relavent to this period.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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^Clyde, don't Tuareg groups have mostly African mtDNA?
Spain/Western Eurasian mtDNA makes sense for Coastal North African Berber speakers (Amazigh) though.
quote:Evergren posted:
Scenario # 2 seems to be the most parsimonious explanation. But ... This in turn circumvents (i.e., flanks) the position espoused by Martin Bernal and others that Western Civilization was founded with roots in Black Africa.
Agreed, scenario #1 is just a hypothesis.
quote:Also, note that Ottoni claims to have failed to genetically analyze the ancient individuals from the Fezzan. Yet, in an earlier study (“Sand, Stones, and Bones”) associated with Dr. Di Lernia one Garamante subject was analyzed and the mtDNA was fully characterized and was found to be a member of the African haplotype L3. This is consistent with the derivation of E-M81 from a population associated with Sub-Saharan derived E-M35* and an associated pool of Sub-Saharan derived maternal lineages.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: This seems unlikely, as Africans were/are matrilineal and would have given preference to the women carrying the ancestral heritage.
Actually some African societies are patrilineal instead of matrilineal. You cannot stereotype the whole continent the way you just did.
quote:But why would this scholar want to posit Iberians in early Holocene NW Africa? The answer is it gives those with a Eurocentric agenda a gateway to the neolithic Sahara and in turn a gateway to Ancient Egypt, as the Ancient Egyptians primary ancestry comes from the Eastern Sahara. This in turn circumvents (i.e., flanks) the position espoused by Martin Bernal and others that Western Civilization was founded with roots in Black Africa.
I think that even if there were people of Iberian heritage in NW Africa, their presence would be irrelevant to the study of Egypt. There is no evidence that I know of that links Egyptian civilization to developments north of the Atlas Mountains. It's mostly a Nile/Eastern Sahara based civilization, not a Maghrebian one.
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quote:The population exhumed from the archaeological site of Taforalt in Morocco (12,000 years BP) is a valuable source of information toward a better knowledge of the settlement of Northern Africa region and provides a revolutionary way to specify the origin of Ibero-Maurusian populations. Ancient DNA was extracted from 31 bone remains from Taforalt.The HVS1 fragment of the mitochondrial DNA control region was PCR-amplified and directly sequenced. Mitochondrial diversity in Taforalt shows the absence of sub-Saharan haplogroups suggesting that Ibero-Maurusian individuals had not originated in sub-Saharan region. Our results reveal a probable local evolution of Taforalt population and a genetic continuity in North Africa.
This could be construed to lend support to the "ancient Iberian back-migration" scenario for coastal NW Africans, though I am not able to access the body of the paper.
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Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
Your point still stands under occaim's razor: if someone insinuated Iberian cause for the Nile Valley complex they would be faced with the question: why was there no 'Iberian Kemet'.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Under scenario # 2 the NW Africans would have moved into Iberia sometime during the historic era and NW African men would have been isolated from African women and have privileged status to have access to Iberian women. This is what we see during the Carthaginian period and during the Islamic period in Al-Andalusia. NW African soldiers, far away from home and serving as occupying forces would have had privilege to Iberian women over indigenous Iberian men and would not have access to African women. Hence, they would have mated with Iberian women. Over time there may have also been a preference for Iberian women because of unique phenetic traits found in Europeans (i.e., exotica).
Scenario # 2 seems to be the most parsimonious explanation.
Trafficking of women from the other side of the Mediterranean sea as slaves surely must have left its own mark. This coupled with a tradition of polygamy [especially amongst those sections of north African populations which were Muslim-converts] would have facilitated households with sizeable headcount of offpring per a single male 'owner'. Then there were also sudden waves of migration to the north African coast during the fall of direct northwest African rule in the Iberian peninsula; no doubt families who reached the north African coast had left some genetic imprint therein. And of course, genetic drift has its own role to play in all this. All that aside, a look at samplings so far undertaken in coastal northwest Africa suggests that these have generally relied on sampling small, scattered populations [see Cherni et al. 2005], giving fragmented or incomplete picture of northwest African maternal gene pool structure.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
I suspect Tyro was referring to the fundamental complexes from which the Nile Valley complex was built, not late Dynastic-era south European expansions into north Africa, which have no bearing on the core socio-cultural apparatus of Dynastic Egypt.
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One question I have is what exactly does the author mean by 'Berber' in the first place??
Remember that many white scholars use 'Berber' as the Eurocentric catchphrase for non-black, light-skinned, or white North African instead of the more objective definition of anyone who speaks Berber language as his/her native tongue. As such, indigenous North African Berber speaking populations such as the Haratin or Tuareg, or Djerba, are not excluded from being 'Berber' simply because they are black!
So again, which specific groups does the author include as 'Berber'??
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Remember that many white scholars use 'Berber' as the Eurocentric catchphrase for non-black, light-skinned, or white North African instead of the more objective definition of anyone who speaks Berber language as his/her native tongue.
Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
I suspect Tyro was referring to the fundamental complexes from which the Nile Valley complex was built, not late Dynastic-era south European expansions into north Africa, which have no bearing on the core socio-cultural apparatus of Dynastic Egypt.
I meant "Western" as in Western Saharan influences on the socio-cultural apparatus of Dynastic Egypt and not as in the modern "West".
Basically agreeing with what he says below, but for a different reason, as there was Western Saharan influence and not just Eastern Saharan influence.
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
quote:Tyro said: I think that even if there were people of Iberian heritage in NW Africa, their presence would be irrelevant to the study of Egypt. There is no evidence that I know of that links Egyptian civilization to developments north of the Atlas Mountains. It's mostly a Nile/Eastern Sahara based civilization, not a Maghrebian one.
Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
Your point still stands under occaim's razor: if someone insinuated Iberian cause for the Nile Valley complex they would be faced with the question: why was there no 'Iberian Kemet'.
posted
"Descriptions and photographs of late Paleolithic remains from Egypt indicate characteristics which distinguish them clearly from their European counterparts at 30,000 and 20,000 years BP (cf. Thomas 1984; Stewart 1985; Angel and Kelly 1986). These distinguishing characteristics, commonly called "Negroid," are shared with later Nile Valley and more southerly groups. It is not important to label "Negroid," only to note that they are shared with a wide range of African populations. Epipaleolithic "mesolithic" Nile Valley remains have these characteristics and diverge notably from their Maghreban and European counterparts in key cranio-facial characteristics (see comments in Keita 1990) although late Natufian hunters and early Anatolian farmers (Angel 1972) shared some of these traits, suggesting late Paleolithic migration out of Africa, as supported by archeology (Bar Yosef 1987). Lumping the epipaleolithic remains of the Nile Valley and even those from the Maghreb, into one group has little to support it..." - Keita, Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships, 1993.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The study makes it clear that it only relates to the modern Taureg population because they were unable to recover genetic material from the ancient bones.
I found that in the conclusion he did not really makes any sweeping claims about his research. This is good, but the title suggest that the paper is about an Holocene population when the author makes it cleare he has not evidence to support any conclusions relavent to this period.
From The Posted Study:
"Western Eurasian lineages: H1 and V. Complete mtDNA sequencing carried out on five H1 Tuareg individuals, indicates a certain degree of diversification of H1 lineages in Northern Africa. In fact, they are all different and tend to cluster in Northern African specific sub-haplogroups. It supports the hypothesis of an early arrival at the beginning of the Holocene of the H1 lineages in Northern Africa, this being a consequence of the Post-Glacial expansion from the Iberian Peninsula. Furthermore, the topology of the tree, that is characterised by many haplotypes departing directly from the root, clearly reflects the star-like structure of the haplogroup H1. This is an evidence of the expansion event that involved the H1 lineages at the beginning of the Holocene, as previously reported in literature (Pereira et al. 2001, Achilli et al. 2004, Roostalu et al. 2006). As regards the V lineages, no genealogical was carried out. Nevertheless it is worth noting that the HVS-I haplotype 16189-16298 is shared with six sequences from Europe, three of which are from a Basque sample (Richards et al. 2000). We think that it is a further significant proof of the linkage between the West-Eurasian lineages in Northern Africa and the Post-Glacial expansion from the Iberian refuge."
"Hypothetical expansion from Northeast Africa: archaeological records collected from the Italo-Libyan joint mission attest the arrival of Pastoral groups in the Acacus (Central Sahara), in the middle of the first half of the Holocene. This hypothesis is supported by the presence of ovicaprines remains in the Acacus mountains at least 7,200 years ago (see Introduction). It coincide with the beginning of the Pastoral period in the Fezzan, as described from paleonthological surveys (see Introduction). This hypothesis is compatible with the presence of Northeast African haplotypes in the root, these being mainly from Upper/Lower Egypt (more in detail, Nubia), since it can be hypothesized that Pastoral groups from Middle East, before moving to Central Sahara, stopped in the fertile areas of the Nile area, in Egypt. This hypothesis indicates some kind of genetic relation between the Pastoral groups inhabiting the Fezzan since the first half of the Holocene and the extant Tuareg."
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by T. Rex: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Evergreen: [qb]This seems unlikely, as Africans were/are matrilineal and would have given preference to the women carrying the ancestral heritage.
Actually some African societies are patrilineal instead of matrilineal. You cannot stereotype the whole continent the way you just did.[QUOTE][qb]
Evergreen Writes:
I was speaking in general terms, assuming a certain level of intelligence among the forum participants. Of course not **ALL** African societies are martrilineal, but this is a predominate cultural characteristic of African societies in general.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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[QUOTE][qb]But why would this scholar want to posit Iberians in early Holocene NW Africa? The answer is it gives those with a Eurocentric agenda a gateway to the neolithic Sahara and in turn a gateway to Ancient Egypt, as the Ancient Egyptians primary ancestry comes from the Eastern Sahara. This in turn circumvents (i.e., flanks) the position espoused by Martin Bernal and others that Western Civilization was founded with roots in Black Africa.
I think that even if there were people of Iberian heritage in NW Africa, their presence would be irrelevant to the study of Egypt. There is no evidence that I know of that links Egyptian civilization to developments north of the Atlas Mountains. It's mostly a Nile/Eastern Sahara based civilization, not a Maghrebian one.
Evergreen Writes:
Please read the study and the comments in full before responding. I never said the issue was links between the Maghreb and the Nile. The issue is relations between the Maghreb and the Central sahara during the early Holocene and the Central Sahara and Nile during the pre-dynastic period. The issue is subtle.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
Your point still stands under occaim's razor: if someone insinuated Iberian cause for the Nile Valley complex they would be faced with the question: why was there no 'Iberian Kemet'.
Evergreen Writes:
What do you mean when you say "Iberian Kemet"? What does this mean?
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
I suspect Tyro was referring to the fundamental complexes from which the Nile Valley complex was built, not late Dynastic-era south European expansions into north Africa, which have no bearing on the core socio-cultural apparatus of Dynastic Egypt.
Evergreen Writes:
Again, I would ask that posters review the posted material before posting superficial replies as this would raise the bar on the dialogue. This paper focuses on proposed early Holocene expansions into NW Africa and Mid-Holocene expansions into the Fezzan. Not dynastic expansions into NW Africa.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: One question I have is what exactly does the author mean by 'Berber' in the first place??
Remember that many white scholars use 'Berber' as the Eurocentric catchphrase for non-black, light-skinned, or white North African instead of the more objective definition of anyone who speaks Berber language as his/her native tongue. As such, indigenous North African Berber speaking populations such as the Haratin or Tuareg .....So again, which specific groups does the author include as 'Berber'??
Evergreen Writes:
If you had read the paper you would know that the Tuareg were a central focus of this research paper.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): "Descriptions and photographs of late Paleolithic remains from Egypt indicate characteristics which distinguish them clearly from their European counterparts at 30,000 and 20,000 years BP (cf. Thomas 1984; Stewart 1985; Angel and Kelly 1986). These distinguishing characteristics, commonly called "Negroid," are shared with later Nile Valley and more southerly groups. It is not important to label "Negroid," only to note that they are shared with a wide range of African populations. Epipaleolithic "mesolithic" Nile Valley remains have these characteristics and diverge notably from their Maghreban and European counterparts in key cranio-facial characteristics (see comments in Keita 1990) although late Natufian hunters and early Anatolian farmers (Angel 1972) shared some of these traits, suggesting late Paleolithic migration out of Africa, as supported by archeology (Bar Yosef 1987). Lumping the epipaleolithic remains of the Nile Valley and even those from the Maghreb, into one group has little to support it..." - Keita, Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships, 1993.
Evergreen Writes:
Hi Alive,
The paper I posted relates to dna not phenotype.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Tyro, There were Western cultural influences on Kemet though.
I suspect Tyro was referring to the fundamental complexes from which the Nile Valley complex was built, not late Dynastic-era south European expansions into north Africa, which have no bearing on the core socio-cultural apparatus of Dynastic Egypt.
Evergreen Writes:
Again, I would ask that posters review the posted material before posting superficial replies as this would raise the bar on the dialogue. This paper focuses on proposed early Holocene expansions into NW Africa and Mid-Holocene expansions into the Fezzan. Not dynastic expansions into NW Africa.
This reply does not make any sense, and what's superficial is your reading. You should try reading things before you reply. The post you are replying to seeks to clarify another poster's comment, nothing more or less.
And oh, no, it doesn't say anything about "dynastic" expansions into NW Africa; it does however mention "fundamental" complexes from which dynastic Nile Valley complexes emerged. You do know what "fundamental" is, don't you?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
Hi Alive,
The paper I posted relates to dna not phenotype.
You're right.
Holocene genes, not pleistocene crania.
quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes:
What do you mean when you say "Iberian Kemet"? What does this mean?
I mean that there was no polity or society similar to Ta Mery in the Iberia peninsula, no "Kemet" there - so whether or not Iberia people crossing into the Magreb is really irrelevant to Kemet as far as the most crucial elements of the said civilization (cultures, people, language, etc) go.
Doesn't take importance away from this thread IMO. We all know how much Eurocentrists would love for there to have been European (or even Eurasian for that matter) agency in North Africa.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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"Hypothetical expansion from Northeast Africa: archaeological records collected from the Italo-Libyan joint mission attest the arrival of Pastoral groups in the Acacus (Central Sahara), in the middle of the first half of the Holocene. This hypothesis is supported by the presence of ovicaprines remains in the Acacus mountains at least 7,200 years ago (see Introduction). It coincide with the beginning of the Pastoral period in the Fezzan, as described from paleonthological surveys (see Introduction).
This hypothesis is compatible with the presence of Northeast African haplotypes in the root, these being mainly from Upper/Lower Egypt (more in detail, Nubia), since it can be hypothesized that Pastoral groups from Middle East, before moving to Central Sahara, stopped in the fertile areas of the Nile area, in Egypt. This hypothesis indicates some kind of genetic relation between the Pastoral groups inhabiting the Fezzan since the first half of the Holocene and the extant Tuareg."
There may be several weaknesses in the hypotheses presented in the above study excerpt. For one thing it seems to assume that the arrival of “pastoralism” is associated with “Middle Eastern” groups. This seems shaky. In fact, several sets of data show that pastoralism developed indigenously in the Sahara and did not need the arrival of “groups from the Middle East” to get it started. ‘ovicaprines remains in the Acacus mountains “ says little since other archaelogical surveys show native ovicaprines being domesticated by indigenous peoples.
It can indeed be “hypothesized that Pastoral groups from Middle East, before moving to Central Sahara, stopped in the fertile areas of the Nile area, in Egypt.” But the question would be, where is the data to support this claim?
About 6000 BC there was a definite uptick in pastoralism in the Sahara but this need not have anything at all to do with reputed "Middle Eastern groups". Instead, the climate cycles of the region produced yet another set of wet conditions favorable for cattle rearing, including large freshwater lakes and productive grazing lands in mountainous areas. The native peoples took advantage of this to boost their pastoral economy, without any need for Middle Eastern people to provide inspiration. See: http://books.google.com/books?id=OrLWtk0QXRY C&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=Acacus+mountains&s ource=bl&ots=DfUU3tvU1y&sig=CmdBGUthLBam KHMwilVaReYxxcc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result &resnum=21&ct=result#PPA92,M1
Also, note that Ottoni claims to have failed to genetically analyze the ancient individuals from the Fezzan. Yet, in an earlier study (“Sand, Stones, and Bones”) associated with Dr. Di Lernia one Garamante subject was analyzed and the mtDNA was fully characterized and was found to be a member of the African haplotype L3. This is consistent with the derivation of E-M81 from a population associated with Sub-Saharan derived E-M35* and an associated pool of Sub-Saharan derived maternal lineages.
This data is also somewhat consistent with the descriptions of Herodotus, who described the peoples of the Fezzan region as like Ethiopians, a description claimed by some modern authors to link with the Negroid Tebu of the Tibesti mountains, who speak a Nilo-Saharan language, and who have branches both in Libya and Chad. Presumably these native peoples were those attacked by the Garamantes according to Herotodus. Some writings have interpreted this story as part of a 'racial' shift marked by "invading Caucasoids" but skeletal evidence puts these "invaders" closer to the peoples of Upper Egypt. "..the skeletons seem to show closer resemblance to groups from the upper Nile Valley than to contemporary material from the Maghreb." from the book: "The Berbers".
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Might be of relevance, shows a relationship between north Africa and Southern Europe, during the early times of agriculture. Relationship of which goes from north Africa into southern Europe, and not the other way around. Albeit the authors still trying to imply the presence of this T1 sequence in north Africa to be an introduction from the middle east to be more parsimonious?? Which comes right after them stating that the higher presence of T1 sequences in north Africa vs. that of the near east and Anatolia, together with the fact that T1 haplotypes are very rare in the Middle East and Anatolia implies independent domestication in North Africa.
Testing the Hypothesis of an African Cattle Contribution in Southern European Breeds (H2).
Our extensive sampling across North Africa reveals that the T1 haplogroup is almost fixed across this region (Fig. 2). Nevertheless, 63 different sequences with the T1 motif are observed, producing a total nucleotide diversity in North Africa (1.76%, SD 0.15) slightly higher than observed in the Middle East (1.65%, SD 0.14) or in Anatolia (1.48%, SD 0.13), where all four major haplogroups are found. These observations, together with the fact that T1 haplotypes are very rare in the Middle East and Anatolia, appear consistent with the previously suggested hypothesis (7, 11) that African cattle were independently domesticated. This hypothesis, however, also would imply that Northern African and Near Eastern aurochsen were genetically differentiated even without major barriers limiting their dispersion (with the former being mainly T1-like and the latter being non-T1-like) or that the African and Near Eastern domestication processes were very different (with the former producing a much more intense bottleneck than the latter). As far as genetic data are concerned, the simpler hypothesis of an introduction in Africa of few T1-like cattle domesticated in the Near East, and their subsequent demographic expansion and genetic diversification appears more parsimonious. Regardless of the origin of the African breeds, T1 mtDNA sequences are clearly a distinctive feature of their genetic composition. The distribution of the T1 haplogroup outside Africa thus can be used to understand the relationships between cattle breeds across the Mediterranean, and an interesting pattern seems to emerge in Europe (Fig. 2): T1 sequences are relatively common (with frequencies ranging from 5% to 30%) in different breeds from Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece. The presence of T1 mainly along the Mediterranean shores of Europe (near Africa), but not in central and northern Europe, is suggestive of the occasional introduction of cattle by boat from North Africa into southern Europe and is difficult to reconcile with any gene flow process unrelated with the sea. But when did this process occur? The presence of T1 haplotypes previously observed in Portugal was attributed to historical migration due to North African, possibly Moorish, conquerors (19). However, even if 63 and 11 different T1 haplotypes are observed in Africa and Europe, respectively, only two of them are present in both regions. In addition, (i) T1 haplotypes can be found well beyond the area of maximum Moorish expansion, (ii) recent introductions of exotic cattle are usually male mediated (not affecting mtDNA) (34), and (iii) one T1 haplotype has been recently observed in a sample of 16 Bronze Age cattle remains from Spain. So, the hypothesis of a recent and geographically restricted introduction of African cattle does not seem sufficient to explain the T1 distribution in Europe. On the contrary, DNA data are compatible with earlier gene flow into several Mediterranean regions. There is evidence of early diffusion of cattle pastoralism by people crossing arms of sea (21–23), and, hence, the same process may have led to the dispersal in Europe of breeds carrying the T1 haplotype.
Conclusions
The modern and ancient mtDNA sequences we present here do not support the currently accepted hypothesis of a single Neolithic origin in the Near East. The processes of livestock domestication and diffusion were certainly more complex than previously suggested, and our data provide some evidence in favor of the hypothesis that the origin of European cattle is multiple. Breeds domesticated in the Near East and introduced in Europe during the Neolithic diffusion probably intermixed, at least in some regions, with local wild animals and with African cattle introduced by maritime routes. As a consequence, European breeds should represent a more diverse and important genetic resource than previously recognized, especially in the Southern regions.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Originally posted by Evergreen: This paper is associated with the Italian Archaeological Mission in Libya directed by Prof. Savino Di Lernia. The general thesis of this research paper claims that modern North African Berbers are defined by high frequencies of Iberian mtDNA (maternal lineages). Ottoni attributes this to a post last glacial maximum migration from Iberia to NW Africa. From an archaeological perspective there is no evidence of population movements from Iberia to NW Africa during the Early to Mid-Holocene.
Linguistically, Berbers speak an Afro-Asiatic language which derived somewhere between NE Africa and the Horn of Africa. Finally and most importantly, Berber men are defined by the African haplogroup E-M81 which has a Bronze Age dating. E-M81 is a sub-lineage of the Sub-Saharan derived lineage E-M35* (E1b1b). Iberian men in turn are defined by the male lineage R1b and I1b2. These lineages are found in low to nil frequencies in North West African populations.
Even assuming Iberian movement one wonders how significant it is for the 'Berber' region as a whole. The only major 'racial' shift seems to be in much later eras, beginning with reputed chariot-borne "invaders", but even these major first wave "intruders" as noted above cluster more closely with Upper Nile Valley Types than with anything from the Maghreb.
If anything, various writers put the bulk of the "local action" during prehistoric times not with any migrating Mediterraneans but with the negroid indigenous tribes. It is in the Sahara where significant cultural developments are taking place, not the Mediterranean. Quote:
The really original aspect of the North African prehistoric cultures is evident not on the Mediterranean coast but in the Sahara, in the highlands of Tibesti and Tassili, the Hoggar and west to the Atlantic coast. In these areas, and to a lesser extent in Kabylia and the Saharan Atlas, are found numerous elaborate rock carvings and paintings. From these we can deduce much.. A neolithic civilization combining fishing with stock raising grew up here whose connections are far closer to the Sudan than to the Capsian to the north. The people were negroid, as both their rare skeletons and the splendid frescoes they painted on the cliffs of the Tassili range demonstrate."
from-- The Berbers, (1997) p. 21-30
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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The modern and ancient mtDNA sequences we present here do not support the currently accepted hypothesis of a single Neolithic origin in the Near East. The processes of livestock domestication and diffusion were certainly more complex than previously suggested, and our data provide some evidence in favor of the hypothesis that the origin of European cattle is multiple. Breeds domesticated in the Near East and introduced in Europe during the Neolithic diffusion probably intermixed, at least in some regions, with local wild animals and with African cattle introduced by maritime routes. As a consequence, European breeds should represent a more diverse and important genetic resource than previously recognized, especially in the Southern regions.
Excellent data. So Europe itself received part of its cattle domestication inheritance from Africa? Hmm.. Well, well..
Is there evidence of African people movement into Europe prior to the Moorish and slave trade eras, but BEFORE before the prehistoric OOA migrations? I mean, doesn't Sicily, Italy and Greece show African gene elements in place well before the slave trade or Moor/Arab eras, or before the Greco/Roman eras?
I wonder why the study seems to assume Africa passively awaiting Iberian migrants. Could not the genes have been introduced by "black backflow" from AFRICANS, who went into Europe but backflowed out across the Mediterranean taking with them the Iberian women mentioned above? Just some speculation.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Is there evidence of African people movement into Europe prior to the Moorish
^^^^The presence of T1 haplotypes previously observed in Portugal was attributed to historical migration due to North African, possibly Moorish, conquerors (19). However, even if 63 and 11 different T1 haplotypes are observed in Africa and Europe, respectively, only two of them are present in both regions. In addition, (i) T1 haplotypes can be found well beyond the area of maximum Moorish expansion, (ii) recent introductions of exotic cattle are usually male mediated (not affecting mtDNA) (34), and (iii) one T1 haplotype has been recently observed in a sample of 16 Bronze Age cattle remains from Spain. So, the hypothesis of a recent and geographically restricted introduction of African cattle does not seem sufficient to explain the T1 distribution in Europe. On the contrary, DNA data are compatible with earlier gene flow into several Mediterranean regions. **There is evidence of early diffusion of cattle pastoralism by people crossing arms of sea** (21–23), and, hence, the same process may have led to the dispersal in Europe of breeds carrying the T1 haplotype.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:On the contrary, DNA data are compatible with earlier gene flow into several Mediterranean regions. **There is evidence of early diffusion of cattle pastoralism by people crossing arms of sea** (21–23), and, hence, the same process may have led to the dispersal in Europe of breeds carrying the T1 haplotype.
There is evidence for Africans entering the middle east, and then Europe, with the spread of agriculture, but also as we see from above there is evidence of Africans making their way via north Africa directly into Southern Europe during the early spread of agriculture into Europe.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Also of note is that the genes for mutations common amongst pastoralists(I.e. lactase persistence), appears to be selected about four thousand years before that of the Asian and European populations.
The fingerprints of natural selection in DNA are hard to recognize. Just a handful of recently selected genes have previously been identified, like those that confer resistance to malaria or the ability to digest lactose in adulthood, an adaptation common in Northern Europeans whose ancestors thrived on cattle milk.
But the authors of the HapMap study released last October found many other regions where selection seemed to have occurred, as did an analysis published in December by Robert K. Moysis of the University of California, Irvine.
Dr. Pritchard's scan of the human genome differs from the previous two because he has developed a statistical test to identify just genes that have started to spread through populations in recent millennia and have not yet become universal, as many advantageous genes eventually do.
The selected genes he has detected fall into a handful of functional categories, as might be expected if people were adapting to specific changes in their environment. Some are genes involved in digesting particular foods like the lactose-digesting gene common in Europeans. Some are genes that mediate taste and smell as well as detoxify plant poisons, perhaps signaling a shift in diet from wild foods to domesticated plants and animals.
Dr. Pritchard estimates that the average point at which the selected genes started to become more common under the pressure of natural selection is 10,800 years ago in the African population and 6,600 years ago in the Asian and European populations.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Is there evidence of African people movement into Europe prior to the Moorish and slave trade eras, but BEFORE before the prehistoric OOA migrations? I mean, doesn't Sicily, Italy and Greece show African gene elements in place well before the slave trade or Moor/Arab eras, or before the Greco/Roman eras?
I wonder why the study seems to assume Africa passively awaiting Iberian migrants. Could not the genes have been introduced by "black backflow" from AFRICANS, who went into Europe but backflowed out across the Mediterranean taking with them the Iberian women mentioned above? Just some speculation.
Just to let you know, showing evidence of Mesolithic to Neolithic migrations of Africans to Europe is pretty much this forum's past time! LOLPosts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Dr. Pritchard estimates that the average point at which the selected genes started to become more common under the pressure of natural selection is 10,800 years ago in the African population and 6,600 years ago in the Asian and European populations.
posted
What about European (mainly Iberian) slavery in North Africa?
Most of us are aware by now that in the reverse situation slavery is readily supposed, regardless of how much sense it makes -- i.e. the accusation off Southern European E3b being from imported slaves, even though these bearers turn out to be farmers immigrating to Europe during a time when the host population was still hunting and gathering.
Likewise there's the case of E3a in the Middle East which is quickly considered to be the result of historic slaves brought to the region -- notwithstanding the fact that their hosts customarily prohibited (including by castration) the males from having children by any of their even while many of them owned their counterparts primarily for sex as evidenced by the African mtDNA in the region.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:“Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland,” he said.
Pirates (called corsairs) from cities along the Barbary Coast in north Africa – cities such as Tunis and Algiers – would raid ships in the Mediterranean and Atlantic, as well as seaside villages to capture men, women and children. The impact of these attacks were devastating – France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships, and long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants. At its peak, the destruction and depopulation of some areas probably exceeded what European slavers would later inflict on the African interior.
Although hundreds of thousands of Christian slaves were taken from Mediterranean countries, Davis noted, the effects of Muslim slave raids was felt much further away: it appears, for example, that through most of the 17th century the English lost at least 400 sailors a year to the slavers.
Even Americans were not immune. For example, one American slave reported that 130 other American seamen had been enslaved by the Algerians in the Mediterranean and Atlantic just between 1785 and 1793.
Davis said the vast scope of slavery in North Africa has been ignored and minimized, in large part because it is on no one’s agenda to discuss what happened.
Notwithstanding the fact that it is now on the radar as suggested by the below url, because Muslims are once again on the radar:
quote:As Baepler notes in his introduction, Christian slaves of European ancestry were hardly an uncommon phenomenon in the Barbary States. The Barbary pirates were excellent seafarers and, from the Coasts of North Africa, sailed as far north as Iceland (where they went ashore and captured 800 slaves during one incident) and as far West as Newfoundland, Canada, where they pillaged more than 40 vessels at one time. By 1620, reports Baepler, there were more than 20,000 white Christian slaves in Algiers alone, and by the 1630s that number tolled more than 30,000 men and 2,000 women. The most famous of all white Christian Europeans to serve as a slave in the Barbary States was probably Miguel de Cervantes, the great Spanish author of the “Don Quixote” epic, who was taken as a slave in the late 1500s.
None of this by the way mentions Eastern and South Eastern European slavery possibly for the reason that they (Slavic, Greek, Turkic people, etc) aren't considered white by some of their Euro-contemporaries.
posted
Post-last glacial maximum expansion from Iberia to North Africa revealed by fine characterization of mtDNA H haplogroup in Tunisia.
Cherni L, Fernandes V, Pereira JB, Costa MD, Goios A, Frigi S, Yacoubi-Loueslati B, Amor MB, Slama A, Amorim A, El Gaaied AB, Pereira L. Laboratory of Genetics Immunology and Human Pathology, Faculty of Sciences of Tunis, Tunisia.
The first large-scale fine characterization of Tunisian H lineages clarifies that the post-Last glacial maximum expansion originating in Iberia not only led to the resettlement of Europe but also of North Africa. We found that 46% of 81 Tunisian H lineages subscreened for 1,580 bp in mtDNA coding region were affiliated with H1 and H3 subhaplogroups, which are known to have originated in Iberia. Although no signs of local expansion were detected, which would allow a clear dating of their introduction, the younger and less diverse Tunisian H1 and H3 lineages indicate Iberia as the radiating centre. Major contributions from historical migrations to this Iberian genetic imprint in Tunisia were ruled out by the mtDNA gene pool similarity between Berber/Arab/cosmopolitan samples and some "Andalusian" communities, settled by the descendents of the "Moors" who once lived in Iberia for 10 centuries (between 8th and 17th centuries), before being expelled to Tunisia. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2009.
-------------------- Black Roots. Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Let's not forget the Germanic Vandals who also made their home in the Maghreb.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
If the Vandals left any genetic impression, very little came, if any, from the male side.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: If the Vandals left any genetic impression, very little came, if any, from the male side.
Evergreen Posts:
Ann Hum Genet. 2009 Jan;73(Pt 1):42-53.
In search of the pre- and post-neolithic genetic substrates in Iberia: evidence from Y-chromosome in Pyrenean populations López-Parra AM, Departamento de Toxicología y Legislación Sanitaria, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Spain. The male-mediated genetic legacy of the Pyrenean population was assessed through the analysis of 12 Y-STR and 27 Y-SNP loci in a sample of 169 males from 5 main geographical areas in the Spanish Pyrenees: Cinco Villas (Western Pyrenees), Jacetania and Valle de Arán (Central Pyrenees) and Alto Urgel and Cerdaña (Eastern Pyrenees). In the Iberian context, the Pyrenean samples present some specificities, being characterizeded by a high proportion of chromosomes R1b1b2-M269 (including the usually uncommon R1b1b2d-SRY(2627) and R1b1b2c-M153 types) or I2a2-M26 and low proportions of other haplogroups. Our results indicate that an old pre-Neolithic substrate is preponderant in populations of the whole Pyrenean fringe. However, AMOVA revealed a high level of substructure within Pyrenean populations, partially explained by drift effects as well as by the signature of an ancient genetic differentiation between Western and Eastern Pyrenees.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hg R is very rare in coastal Northwest African populations.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: If the Vandals left any genetic impression, very little came, if any, from the male side.
Evergreen Posts:
Ann Hum Genet. 2009 Jan;73(Pt 1):42-53.
In search of the pre- and post-neolithic genetic substrates in Iberia: evidence from Y-chromosome in Pyrenean populations López-Parra AM, Departamento de Toxicología y Legislación Sanitaria, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Spain. The male-mediated genetic legacy of the Pyrenean population was assessed through the analysis of 12 Y-STR and 27 Y-SNP loci in a sample of 169 males from 5 main geographical areas in the Spanish Pyrenees: Cinco Villas (Western Pyrenees), Jacetania and Valle de Arán (Central Pyrenees) and Alto Urgel and Cerdaña (Eastern Pyrenees). In the Iberian context, the Pyrenean samples present some specificities, being characterizeded by a high proportion of chromosomes R1b1b2-M269 (including the usually uncommon R1b1b2d-SRY(2627) and R1b1b2c-M153 types) or I2a2-M26 and low proportions of other haplogroups. Our results indicate that an old pre-Neolithic substrate is preponderant in populations of the whole Pyrenean fringe. However, AMOVA revealed a high level of substructure within Pyrenean populations, partially explained by drift effects as well as by the signature of an ancient genetic differentiation between Western and Eastern Pyrenees.
From Paper:
Final Remarks and Conclusions
Our investigation of Pyrenean Y chromosome diversity provides an extended data framework to understand the importance of historical events or demographic movements on the genetic landscape of current human populations from the Pyrenees mountain range and also of the whole of Iberia. Within the Peninsula, the Pyrenees constitute an extraordinary region which can be used to infer how different evolutionary forces might have interacted by modelling patterns of diversity in present-day populations. Actually, the complex geoography of the mountain chain prevented easy interaction between people, and in certain regions it has created severe conditions of population isolation that likely fostered extensive drift. Simultaneously, due to the geographical location, the Pyrenees were always a natural bidirectional gateway for people arriving in and leaving Iberia. However the genetic component in the Pyreneans that presumably entered Iberia from the Neolithic era onwards was estimated to be among the lowest for any population in Europe, only comparable with that observed among Basques. The absence of relevant North African inputs during recent historical times is understandable, since the Pyrenees were never under Islamic rule, which lasted for many centuries in other parts of Iberia. Yet, even in relation to other post- Neolithic contributions, our data indicate that the rate of assimilation of non-autochthonous Y-lineages was considerably lower in Basques and Pyreneans than on the rest of the Peninsula. In a certain way, the weight of a peculiar and adverse geography remains today remarkably imprinted in the male gene pool of the Pyreneans. The reciprocal side of this pattern is the high proportion of an ancient substrate retained both in Basques and in Pyreneans. The Y lineages representative of what might have been a pre-Neolithic male genetic composition in Iberia, were those bearing the Palaeolithic mutations M269, including its Mesolithic derived branches R1b1b2c-M153 and R1b1b2d- SRY2627, plus those falling in the I clade defined by the Mesolithic M170. This set of lineages was encountered in 91.1% of Pyrenean men, and such a high value in Iberia is only typically found among Basque populations (it also represented exactly 91.1% of the Basques studied by Alonso et al. (2005). This result suggests that the Pyreneans, as well as the Basques, retained the legacy of the Iberian pre-Neolithic genetic composition. Importantly however, the degree of the pre- and post- Neolithic contributions were found to be highly variable across different Pyrenean populations. In Cinco Villas the post-Neolithic influence was virtually nil (0.0%), whereas in Valle de Ar´an it was residual (4%). These two populations, the most isolated of the Pyrenean populations studied, show accordingly reduced levels of Y-STR diversity. Within the latter population, isolation and particularly strong drift effects must have acted to produce such a peculiar Y-SNP profile in Valle de Ar´an that has no parallel in any Iberian population. Male introgession in post-Neolithic times was comparatively much more influencial in Jacetania, Alto Urgel and Cerda˜na, which can be explained because these three populations are located in strategic passage points, especially Cerda˜na which has long been known to afford a relatively uncomplicated North-South way of crossing the Pyrenees. Another question that our results can address is whether, within the Pyrenees, the diversity pattern observed is evidence of some degree of paternal continuity or whether, on the contrary, microdifferentiation processes prevailed, establishing marked discontinuities. Undoubtedly Valle de Ar´an testifies to the important role of drift in the genetic differentiation of isolated populations. Hence, similar to the appearance of a certain heterogeneity among the Basques, some differentiation also exists between Pyrenean populations, which was mainly determined by isolation and drift. Notwithstanding, we found convincing indications that the mountain chain did not act as a substantial barrier to gene flow between populations. One of the signs comes from the concentration of high frequencies of I2a2 among populations from the entire Pyrenean range. Our data strongly reinforce previous evidence that I2a2 arose during Mesolithic times in a region close to or within the Pyrenees. The dispersal of I2a2 from its place of origin throughout the Pyrenees and beyond, implied not only gene exchange but also considerable movement of people. Very likely, the demographic event associated with the expansion of I2a2 was the Ice-age repopulation of Europe from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge. A number of studies on human mtDNA diversity have already indicated that the Franco-Cantabrian glacial refuge was a major source for the European gene pool (Achilli et al. 2004), and our data on I2a2 seemingly lend support to the role of the region as a Mesolithic diffusion center of male lineages. Evidence that a few thousand years later the mountain chain also permitted gene flow between populations emerges from the distribution of R1b1b2d. Its origin goes back to approximately seven thousand years ago, being widely spread and usually well represented in Pyrenean populations, meaning that despite the intricacy of the Pyrenean orography, the movement of people was maintained over time along the mountain chain, promoting substantial gene flow, even over a linguistic barrier. Although some continuity is discernable within the paternal diversity of Pyrenean populations it was not possible to identify any clear-cut gradient of variation, contrary to previous reports of a strong East-West cline using ‘classical’ markers (Calafell, 1994a). Several factors might have contributed to this; for example, different migrations at different times may have overwritten previous genetic signs, or the different levels of isolation of the valleys may have contributed to erase that gradient of variation. Moreover, the gradient observed when using autosomal markers could possibly have an undetectable counterpart on the Y-chromosome, that might be due to sexbiased demographic factors, which is an issue we will address with our ongoing investigations with mtDNA. R1b1b2c ought to have a final comment in this work. Although one isolated occurrence was registered in Cerda˜na, the most eastern Pyrenean population studied herein, its distribution is practically confined to the western Pyrenean side, leading us to suppose that the Atlantic fringe, inhabited by Basque-speaking populations, was the place where it first arose. From the associated STR diversity values, R1b1b2c appears to be nearly a thousand years older than R1b1b2d, a time lapse large enough for the haplogroup dissemination in a geographical range as broad as for R1b1b2d. Why then is R1b1b2c essentially restricted to Basque speaking populations? In fact, this distribution may be a simple result of chance and thus meaningless for tracing population histories. However, we cannot exclude that the spreading of R1b1b2c might have been somewhat limited by an interaction, not necessarily at random, between geographic and cultural factors. The Pyrenean archaeological record from the final Bronze Age (3100 BP – 2700 BP), reveals some East-West differentiation: the Eastern culture related to the Urnfield invaders (3100– 2900 BP) was almost absent in the Western Pyrenees, where the influence of cromlech builders was clearly more visible (Ruiz Zapatero, 1995). An interesting parallel is observed in the distribution of R1b1b2c, a haplogroup that arose long before the Bronze Age, seeming to indicate that gene flow between inhabitants of the Atlantic vicinity of the Western Pyrenees was higher than between them and people from other Pyrenean locations. The perspective provided by the Y-chromosome indicates that haplogroups such as I2a2 and R1b1b2d, which probably appeared for the first time somewhere within the mountain chain, spread throughout the entire mountain range. In contrast, the influx of lineages originating in other places, even quite close to the mountains’ inner core, as appears to be the case for R1b1b2c, was extremely limited. In other words, the Pyrenees acted more as a donor than a receptor of male lineages. To fully explore the meaning of our findings it is now essential to obtain data on the female counterparts of the Pyrenean gene pool.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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